0:00

Pied, Pied, Pied, Pied. Ruby Pod. Hello

0:06

and welcome back to the Ruby Pod.

0:08

We're a day late and we apologise

0:10

Andrew to absolutely no one.

0:12

Absolutely no one! It's a quiet weekend

0:15

unless you love the URC and Ruby

0:17

Europe, Andrew, which you do. But

0:19

if you're eating at the top table of Ruby, this is the

0:21

week for it. Andrew, what have we got? Well,

0:23

it is the penultimate round of the Six

0:25

Nations and I can't wait to

0:27

discuss your tweet, James Hamilton. Of course, I can't remember

0:29

what I said. I tweet a lot but not as

0:32

much as you. There's rumours of

0:34

unrest in the England camp and that's not coming

0:36

from me. I had no idea but I did

0:38

a bit of digging before the Ruby Pod and

0:40

yeah, there's rumours brewing, Andrew. Is there? Apparently so.

0:42

But we'll maybe dig a little bit into

0:44

how Steve's going to make up his team

0:46

this weekend against the mighty Irish. But also

0:49

there's an interview. Andrew, you caught up with

0:51

Leicester Tigers head coach Dan McKellar. Without me,

0:53

how was he? He was good. We'll hear

0:55

all about Leicester Tigers and everything that goes

0:57

on in the coach's world in a bit.

0:59

So settle back, enjoy and

1:02

make sure you're subscribed on

1:04

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error and or driving conditions. Always

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drive safely. So Jim, how

2:18

are you mate? Busy weekend? I mean

2:20

quiet weekend. Take the quiet when it comes, Andrew, which

2:23

isn't a lot. You were doing a dinner though, weren't

2:25

you? Oh, I did actually. Yeah. Well,

2:27

I say a dinner. It's different to how you do a dinner.

2:29

I was in and out. Actually, big

2:31

shout out to Oban, I was

2:33

going to say Oban Ruppy Club. There's a lot of

2:35

Oban Ruppy people there. It was a lovely establishment in

2:37

Oban, a bit of Kaylee, a bit of music, but

2:40

it was more than that. It's the

2:42

start of Rob Wainwright and

2:44

the mental crew, friend of the show,

2:46

Stuart Hogg, is doing the cycle as

2:48

well. So they're bringing the match ball

2:50

from Oban to Rome in Italy for

2:52

the Italy-Scotland game. I wouldn't believe, I

2:54

mean, to be fair, the weather's been

2:56

pretty decent, so I don't feel sorry

2:58

for them. They're blizzard. How many

3:00

miles is that? It's over a thousand. Mate, you

3:02

don't feel sorry for them. Tell the gooch that after about 100

3:04

miles. Very true. I

3:07

don't feel sorry for them today because they're only two days in. Mate,

3:09

think back to that bike ride you did

3:11

and I partook in for about six minutes

3:13

for Ed's later. Go back to how painful

3:15

it was and then think about those lads

3:18

going all the way to Italy. Fair play

3:20

to them. Very true. Very

3:22

true. So they're going to get there the night

3:24

before, so we should give them a big shout out at the

3:26

start because that's to raise money, raise awareness.

3:28

For My Name's Doddy Foundation. We

3:31

all know this place that we're all

3:34

in with this terrible disease. We're still

3:36

not yet found a cure. Obviously, for

3:38

the show as well, Ed Slater is

3:40

going through his battle. Rob Burrow as

3:42

well, grafting his way in

3:44

the way that he's doing that and Kevin Sinfield

3:46

and all these people that are involved in trying

3:48

to find a cure, trying to raise funds. So

3:50

Rob Wainwright, who's an absolute machine, big shout out

3:52

early doors on the pod to him and

3:54

all the team and all the back kind of

3:57

staff and helpers and support team.

4:00

I suppose that are doing that so watch

4:02

out for them if you're Italy Scotland Rob

4:04

Wainwright The great Rob Wainwright will be taking

4:06

the ball on the pitch. Yeah, that was

4:08

good. That was good mate and you yeah

4:10

I mean supposed to have a quiet weekend

4:13

with a lack of Mainstream ruggles should we

4:15

call it? Yes, there was you I see but I

4:18

don't dabble in you I see work but He

4:21

had a lunch on Thursday with Alton rugby clubs

4:23

a big shout out to all those boys and

4:25

girls And then I had

4:27

a weekend with the family, but it was

4:29

extended family this weekend So I was up

4:31

in the mighty Coventry and I say mighty Coventry

4:33

They don't know mighty when you gotta go to what

4:36

I call the Warsgrove Hospital I think it's University

4:38

of Coventry Hospital my old man has had a

4:40

fall broken his hip broken his leg Had

4:42

a bang on the nut and so yeah, it was a

4:44

tough weekend actually up in Coventry sin the old boy Who's

4:48

not doing overly well? So big

4:50

shout out to my old man milk I

4:52

mean there's battlers and then there's

4:54

male man Everything he's been through He

4:57

amazes me every time so hopefully you can

5:00

bounce back. But yeah somber weekend and hopefully

5:02

he's on the mend Well, let's

5:04

flip it Jim. Let's talk about something positive. Let's

5:06

talk about that amazing place. That is

5:09

Las Vegas Did you watch the NRL build up

5:11

to the openers in the season? How good is

5:13

that? Can we get out there? Can we do

5:15

some NRL they won't want us under the NRL

5:17

hate rubber Union So we might not be aligned

5:19

with the NRA as much as I'd love to

5:22

I text my John tried to get him on

5:24

the podcast As well, and he just text

5:26

back. What you think he texts back? No,

5:28

he just nothing and I think

5:30

I think it's cuz he's in Las

5:32

Vegas living it up But look I know it's a different

5:35

sport But I was watching it Andrew and I was a

5:37

bit sad as good as it was being

5:39

in Las Vegas I know it's a place that was

5:41

lost but he gets yeah, you get

5:43

lost. Don't you call it Las Vegas? There you

5:45

go. So I call it to get lost in

5:47

Vegas even though I've never been never been intentional

5:50

intentionally. No Oh, I don't know. I don't want

5:52

to go until you've seen what Can

5:56

Imagine a rugby pod live show in Vegas, yes,

5:58

I could Let's do it. The rub

6:00

rub shaken is as assess robot not come back

6:02

on earth robs of out of the weekend. he

6:04

said that he's been seen the kids and sausages

6:06

him instead celsius. At my age I'm in Las

6:08

Vegas but yeah I the Nrl it was amazing

6:10

I was loving and I was a little bit

6:13

down I'll be honest because I was I have

6:15

we missed the boat pay autochthonous if we'd missed

6:17

the boat but we definitely missed a trick and

6:19

the at our wow you look at everything around

6:21

now this is the conversation and who were having

6:23

an hour game of the core a laws that

6:25

blows up the conversation in the interview we had

6:27

with him on the part but you look at

6:29

the. And or others a few things right. the

6:32

market in how they've done it. But Sydney's. Did.

6:34

You watch any the game Andrea

6:36

bone crunching make their go in

6:38

higher. Than. A high time that

6:41

they are scum and so high in

6:43

the Tesco another lot as I don't

6:45

agree with I or whatever but the

6:47

violence and the chaos and they understand

6:49

the cell in America, the markets and

6:51

around that and and I'm not saying

6:53

by taking other players had self and

6:55

stuff like that that might die is

6:57

a fucking guy. The. And around as

6:59

a game and the way that it was done around

7:01

that was watching the annals a bit damp because I

7:03

was on. have we missed? A. Trick in

7:05

Not came to America early with seven

7:07

years out from the woke Up in

7:09

America the terminology that we use and

7:11

and or as an awesome actually the

7:13

my jones was doing Iran's they need

7:15

to change that terminology and how they

7:17

promote the Nrl because they're calling it

7:19

broke the law people in America. See.

7:22

Repeated for bunion because the Usa to go

7:24

national team that played the World cups and

7:26

the Sevens as well so they might just

7:28

call it that are out there is that

7:30

kind of pass a spectacle to play in

7:32

the stadium Where the Superbowl last to be

7:34

in Las Vegas, you see all the content

7:36

they didn't around a lot lots walking into

7:38

the stadium before the mass of he told

7:40

his shit wearing you know buddies. While the

7:43

cold with a red cells will have a

7:45

chance you've got higher than literally audience sake

7:47

of Hillary but your bags and stuff on

7:49

that looking cold as anything sort of her

7:51

when Obama have. A chance would you say a

7:53

bluster? that besides of them side. of

7:56

other doubted whether that's gao over out

7:58

elephant man but yeah You've got to give a

8:00

big shout out to the NRL. If that

8:02

for me, like as down as I was on it,

8:05

I had the appetite to go, like, let's

8:07

keep pushing. Let's keep growing. Let's keep doing

8:09

cool things. Because one day we're going

8:11

to be there, aren't we? I said the World Cup is

8:13

there in seven years. I know it's not necessary in Las

8:15

Vegas, but it's definitely winning

8:17

the American audience and the markets over there.

8:20

That game was shown to 100 million

8:22

people on Fox, Terrestrial TV and all the

8:24

content around it. It's got Andrew. We're doing

8:26

it in rugby, right? In the Union. Like,

8:29

that's what we're doing. But they've just

8:31

gone to another level. So big shout out to the

8:33

LRL. It was class. Yeah, it's ironic actually, because like

8:36

you said, then in America, there is the World

8:38

Cup there in twenty thirty one. We've just seen

8:40

the sevens in L.A. this weekend. And I might

8:42

mention that a bit later as well. And

8:44

we've dipped our toe in the water there as

8:46

a game, Rugby Union. We've seen all blacks playing

8:49

Ireland and Ireland had that famous win in

8:51

Chicago. That was class. That was wicked. And

8:53

obviously the premiership have played a few games

8:55

there. I played. Did you play Saracens?

8:57

Yeah. Was it New York at the Red Bull Stadium?

8:59

Was it? Yeah, Saris versus London Irish. Yeah. And there's

9:02

been a couple of them, I think, hasn't there? So

9:04

we've dipped our toe in the water, but

9:06

we've never followed it up. It's like we put

9:08

the end in, but not gone all the way through

9:10

and given the full length kind of thing. So the

9:13

ironic thing about the NRL is Americans

9:15

wouldn't have a scooby about Rugby League,

9:18

because it's just unless you're an expat

9:20

there, it's just not played. Where

9:23

Rugby Unions should have been

9:25

ahead of the eight ball with the fact

9:27

that Americans know Rugby, whether it's sevens, 15s,

9:30

the World Cup building up. So what we've got

9:32

to do is follow. There's a lot that goes

9:34

into these discussions and agreements. Obviously,

9:36

the NRL have signed. I think it's a five

9:39

year deal to have their season open for

9:41

the next five seasons. So they've committed to

9:43

that to grow that. Come on, Rugby Union.

9:45

Come on the premiership. Come on the Investech

9:47

Champions Cup. Come on the Six Nations. Come

9:49

on the World Cup. Autumn,

9:51

whatever it is, bottom line is we need

9:54

to go to Vegas. So Let's get it

9:56

on. Let's get it on. But on that,

9:58

Andrew, on the American dream and every. it

10:00

around that So Jason Miller was putting on

10:02

an exhibition match you think is a July

10:04

in San Diego for the All Blacks versus

10:06

Fiji theft So like yes we want the

10:08

World Cup of course we do in twenty

10:10

thirty one to go to Las Vegas yes

10:13

we want of know like Six Nations Moscow

10:15

the that but actually if you do an

10:17

exhibition match and you do like an All

10:19

Blacks versus South Africa Russia they are sat

10:21

on this and thought what the All Blacks

10:23

play to get started in Chicago might we

10:25

Just sad but the Irish expat community the

10:27

American a host break the Irish and against

10:29

the All Blacks and do one that but

10:32

good You just said let's follow. May.

10:34

Less fourteen lane yeah, but we can lead to

10:36

they've done a lot without a partner or aside.

10:38

I get hindsight, it's a great thing that that's

10:40

why we're so down on it. Because of that.

10:42

Why are we not so innocent? But you can

10:45

see the way they talk about the and around

10:47

you see Russell Crowe do with the infirm and

10:49

stuff to explain into games and apps for the

10:51

out the two games mate. And. We

10:53

know this is a much simpler

10:55

games consume the know lineouts, the

10:57

scrubs around. Five. Tackles power

10:59

plays and they are led. The.

11:02

Elephant in the room. Which. Is the

11:04

high tackles lead them and fault lot they

11:06

really are about for me was bit but

11:08

the worry about powers not years lion this

11:10

got the Americans of the Australians clearly different.

11:12

Rose wrote his last or think someone like

11:14

Russell Crowe of say he's been heavily involved

11:16

with a Rabbit House so many years as

11:18

night and Asia global Superstar in his own

11:20

right. So the victims, her students we set

11:22

up germs are law if you're unsure about

11:24

loan that which is the same it is

11:26

to be the voice I think he said

11:28

it Easy to think the scope of have

11:31

been slate like right as a lot people

11:33

like that who like. union who harper a

11:35

global voice stairs as rug bayonne earn

11:37

some other now they hum so whatever

11:39

if he says it enough voice i'm

11:41

sold and many people off but you've

11:43

gotta take risks i just feel we're

11:45

not quite there yet we're talking about

11:48

it with double in a little bit

11:50

but that was a massive risk for

11:52

them and for the outside looking in

11:54

or that i have commotion it played

11:56

out for them but a lot like

11:58

a risk that If it hasn't

12:00

paid off, it will pay off over the next five years

12:03

as they go into that. Yeah, 100%. Should we get back

12:05

to our planet, Andrew? Yes, let's get back to Rugby Union.

12:07

What's happening, Jim? You said there's rumours.

12:09

Well, only because they're in the notes. I had no

12:11

idea. So I did a bit of digging and

12:14

there was some positivity. People just like talking about

12:16

Steve Borthwick. Have you heard anything or not? I've

12:18

heard bits. There you go. That's why they're in

12:20

the notes. I don't know. I

12:22

mean, I don't know. Firstly, I will say, and this isn't

12:25

me being all hype and all love. I

12:27

don't get it. You've got an England team, right?

12:30

Who are getting better a week on week or are they? If you

12:32

look at the stats. I know they're not. I know when you look

12:34

at the stats, but I don't know how

12:36

you can go all in on someone like Steve Borthwick and

12:39

then be like, right, mate, so Six Nations after

12:41

the World Cup, get someone else in. When I

12:43

did a little bit of digging and looked at

12:45

some of the articles and some of the stuff

12:47

on social media, which is basically, if

12:50

you look at that, then it's all truth, isn't

12:52

it? But public opinion is saying

12:54

that. And I don't agree that, you

12:56

know, Steve Borthwick should go

12:58

like, I think it's ridiculous to even think that that

13:00

would be the case. But I would say as well,

13:03

and maybe then you can talk about it, mate. It's

13:05

a pressure job. It's a high pressure job.

13:08

Like there's an expectation being England coach in

13:10

any sport. So football, but rugby

13:12

union as well. There's an expectation and I

13:14

go back to it. You finished third in

13:17

the World Cup in France. I think

13:19

it's looking like there are signs of progression

13:21

and then you look at the preem and

13:23

not been able to pick players outside of

13:25

the preem and like there's a few issues,

13:27

I think, like administratively that they need to

13:29

look at. But that's just my

13:31

opinion. What do you see as the progression, Jones?

13:33

They're bringing in Felix Jones. Yeah. So they're bringing

13:35

in a World Cup winner. So they're changing up

13:38

their defence, which as we know, takes time. Wanting

13:41

to attack more. So in their mind and the

13:43

conversations that they're having, so they are appeasing the

13:45

fans, which I don't think they should do. I've

13:47

always said that. I don't think they need to

13:49

play a way in which People

13:51

talk about saying they need to play a quicker,

13:53

more attractive style of rugby. I Love the way

13:55

they play against South Africa, but they are trying

13:58

to do that. They've got Jamie George as captain.

14:00

where a lot of people would have gone down

14:02

that route Said: we want Jamie George We want

14:04

a better or a more. Charismatic.

14:07

Leader. I think that giving the

14:10

fans more from a content an access point of

14:12

view. I think that picking players that they're allowed

14:14

to pick from it in the grip test to

14:16

the grip test of the been to test but

14:18

I think what you look at what they're doing

14:21

this while with my the picking the best players

14:23

if you go through the school allies that Mercer

14:25

Gop. While. Is he's one look

14:27

at how good the back row his birth

14:29

place I've been. awful place a weeping talked

14:31

about on the part that lot sailboat so

14:33

either northampton about on sale by Saigon, ten

14:35

minutes when we'd lost that they're not going

14:37

from Sry and but they by if I

14:39

was that are would do but he's in

14:41

around the scope of talked about eight and

14:43

Roots how good he has been. He comical

14:45

fast tracked into the squatters while some of

14:47

the Hill banjos play now. Onyx. Mitchell's

14:50

in plain as well I'm we've been talking

14:52

him up so that our opinion right but

14:54

it's gonna be conversations around two together all

14:56

in often. Smith we both got an idea

14:58

of what we think around that Marcus my

15:00

thousand and fit manitoba like he's not been

15:03

for on enormous came straight back and so

15:05

is picking the best players bar a couple

15:07

that we a game could sit and chat

15:09

him about the runway things up most should

15:11

be in because it's different. it's seven so

15:13

topic job when as can't pick Henry out

15:15

into account that these oaths to a plane

15:18

or assad the friends I am. From

15:20

a very newport if you I'm looking

15:22

at been life odd I get. Where.

15:24

Will the Nicholas I think the Niggers com and

15:26

it's com. Apparently. From inside

15:28

the camp, around what's going on in the

15:30

camp. So. Just quoting

15:32

to very recent retired internationals that

15:35

has been in environment under stays

15:37

any Varma under Eddie Jones, Johnny

15:39

Mate and Ben Youngs by said

15:42

that. Attack. is an afterthought

15:44

by said oh we really focus on

15:46

his defense set piece kicked ice kicking

15:48

game which a huge company the game

15:51

and i think the frustration is coming

15:53

from dot dancing they're trying to marry

15:55

up which can shift around everywhere so

15:58

that's what fans want to say because

16:00

that doesn't work. But the detail

16:03

and the time given to that

16:05

facet of the game in training is where I

16:08

believe the frustrations come from, from

16:10

within the camp. And however it's been leaked, however things

16:13

have come about, listen, Ben Young's and Johnny

16:15

May have said it on different podcasts, and

16:17

they've been there. You know, they've

16:20

openly said that Eddie Jones, you know, players

16:22

didn't know really structurally what was going on

16:24

in the tag, because it wasn't really thought

16:26

about. It was like every focus was on

16:28

defense and getting a turnover and set

16:30

piece and pressure game and all that stuff.

16:32

And you know, that is an important part

16:34

of it. What you've said, and I agree,

16:37

he's picking these players, but he's not

16:39

marrying up why he's picking them and what

16:41

they're doing at club level and how they're playing at

16:43

club level to how England are performing.

16:45

And you know, we saw that structurally in attack

16:47

against Scotland, we looked lost when we had the

16:49

ball after 15 minutes. Yeah, first 15 minutes were

16:51

great. We scored the try off the set piece

16:53

and you know, there's some half decent shape. There

16:55

was some horrific shape in the first 15 minutes.

16:57

Go back to the first line out when

17:00

George Ford's passed it back 20 meters to Henry Slade,

17:02

we're 20 meters away from the game line. And

17:05

that looks like a team that hasn't worked on

17:07

attack too much. And yes, you

17:09

get tries and create pressure from your

17:11

defense and all this stuff, but you

17:14

play rugby to get your hands on the ball or 99.9%

17:18

of players want their hands on the ball want to run

17:20

around someone run over someone run through

17:23

gaps, put someone into space, use your

17:25

hands. And I don't think and what

17:27

I believe what I hear and what I listen to,

17:30

there's anywhere near enough focus on that.

17:32

Like you don't go out on the training field

17:35

and have no balls do we play the game

17:37

to fucking chasing a rugby ball around the field

17:39

where the passing it creating space, kicking it. But

17:42

if you're not working on it in training, you're not giving it enough time.

17:44

And there was the rumor that came out and whether it's true or not,

17:46

that one back touch

17:48

the ball once in a session for England

17:51

in attack. Where's that come from? So rumors.

17:53

So it's come from inside the camp somewhere

17:55

and it's leaked and however that is. And

17:57

listen, you know, you've been in environments. been

18:00

in environments where everyone said,

18:02

oh, it's a great environment to be in. When

18:04

you know it's fucking not. Yes. And I'm not

18:06

saying that about England. I'm saying that about, you

18:08

know, there's always underlying tones with, you know, at

18:10

club level that, you know, some people love the

18:12

coach. Some people don't like the coach. The coach

18:14

loves some people. The coach doesn't love some players.

18:17

And there's always underlying currents, isn't there? Cause you can't keep

18:19

40 players in a club

18:21

team or 36 players in an England squad.

18:24

Happy. Cause you can only pick 15

18:26

to start the game and eight on the bench. Right.

18:29

And it's how long you bite your

18:31

lip for it's how long you can hold

18:33

back your frustration and whether it's a player that's not

18:36

being picked or doesn't agree with how

18:38

they're being played. And we know now that there's

18:41

way more player power now than there was in our

18:43

day. Like we just had to shut

18:45

up and get on with it. Didn't we? Whether

18:47

we agreed or not. And that evolved over time.

18:49

And now players rightly so have a big part

18:52

to play and say, and how a

18:54

team plays and he's set up and going back to

18:56

the own foul thing, how confident were

18:58

a lot of players to

19:00

challenge certain things around the team? Well, I can

19:02

tell you now, a lot of them wouldn't say

19:04

boo to a goose when Faz was skipper and

19:07

Eddie Jones was in charge and Steve was

19:09

in charge and how they set the team

19:11

up and rightly or wrongly, they came third.

19:14

So it worked to that extent, but now

19:16

we're trying to evolve, but it's all right.

19:18

Talking about it. There's not apparently

19:20

enough work being done in the

19:23

training pitch on the training pitch, you know,

19:25

in the time they have collective together and

19:27

they have more time England than

19:30

Scotland. They have more time than

19:32

Wales together. And he has used the reason,

19:34

oh, we had a new team, we haven't

19:36

got a massive amount of training time. And

19:39

sometimes you don't have massive training time, but

19:42

when the frustrations are coming out from the

19:44

players and let's not forget the players

19:46

on the field doing the job and

19:48

they're the ones that are openly criticized

19:51

after the Scotland game. So

19:53

at some point when the players are getting it, they'll eventually

19:55

go, well, hang on a minute, you're

19:57

criticizing us for our attack

19:59

and being. disorganized and you know

20:01

not firing a shot after 18 minutes

20:05

against Scotland fucking didn't know

20:07

what we were doing because we don't work on it

20:09

in training and then it comes back so I know

20:12

Steve will be raging with

20:14

the supposed leaks that have come out the

20:16

camp knowing what Steve is and how

20:18

he is he will go to the nth degree to find

20:20

out who has leaked what and maybe jettison

20:22

that player and that's the way Eddie Jones did it

20:25

with daddy care if you remember took

20:27

him out the team for four years because he

20:29

questioned how the team was playing and

20:31

his role and all that stuff so Eddie Jones just

20:33

flicked him off so there was that fear factor of

20:35

players not questioning authority

20:38

and now you know ultimately at some point

20:40

when you get in heat from the press from the

20:42

fans from anyone podcasts whatever

20:45

at some point a player is

20:47

going to defend himself and go actually the fucking truth is we

20:50

work on defense kickchase set piece and

20:52

our attack is an

20:55

add-on at the end or something like

20:57

that which is the kind of feeling that's come out

20:59

so yeah I know Elliot Daly came out the week

21:01

and he said you know we know exactly how to

21:03

attack against Ireland we were very clear

21:05

in our attacking plan now and all this stuff so you

21:07

can only judge players on what

21:09

they say in the press and the noises come

21:11

out the camp and they've been hugely positive under

21:14

Jamie George and I completely agree brilliant bloke brilliant

21:16

character is that fall between you

21:18

know Steve and the players and now there's

21:21

more empathy with players being more confident

21:23

to say what they think within the

21:25

group and you're picking these players that are playing

21:27

the way they're playing in the prem and then you're asking

21:29

them to play a different way or you're not preparing them

21:32

in the way to play to their strengths and eventually

21:34

you know someone's are they

21:36

gonna say something you're gonna get berated for

21:38

performances so forces the players to actually defend

21:40

themselves and and that's perhaps where we are

21:42

and this weekend's game I'm not advocating getting

21:44

rid of Steve necessarily I don't think Steve

21:46

is the right man for head coach I'll

21:49

be very honest you look at

21:51

his credentials and people go yeah

21:53

you won the prem with with Leicester and you

21:55

know he hasn't had a massive amount of head

21:58

coach experience now we are Supposedly

22:00

and I say we know this some people might go

22:02

you're so arrogant England is supposed to

22:04

be the biggest rugby union in the world and

22:07

I'm gonna say we've probably got one of the

22:09

least experienced coaching panels as Head

22:13

coach assistant coaches all good blokes and all

22:15

good coaches in their own right Steve People

22:17

talk about his detail in terms of forwards line outs

22:19

the detail of that and Jim you'll

22:21

have experience of knowing what that's like He's

22:24

phenomenal at that is he a head coach He

22:27

did the job for a short amount of time at

22:29

Leicester He was always gonna get the

22:31

job after Eddie Jones because he's Eddie Jones's protege

22:33

my big thing on it There's Richard Wigglesworth mate

22:35

of mine Inexperienced coach coaching

22:37

the attack. That's where we're struggling a bit

22:39

Felix Jones has come in and double World

22:42

Cup winner amazing And we're seeing that evolution

22:44

of our defense Tom Harrison's

22:46

a scrum coach not a massive amount of

22:49

cop class experience He was at Leicester as

22:51

a scrum coach for a few years Kevin

22:53

Simfield great bloke moving aside And he is

22:55

an inexperienced rugby union coach and he'd say

22:57

that so when you say it like that

23:00

and you actually look at the top Five

23:02

six seven teams and

23:04

I put whales in that as well like with Warren

23:07

Gatlin being back or even when you had way in

23:09

Pivac and having done what he's done

23:11

at the scarlets then was moved into that role And

23:13

it was a job too big for him it seemed

23:16

and Gregor and you know Gregor went back and

23:18

forth He was assistant coach. He was head coach

23:20

of Glasgow for many years so I

23:22

suppose when you look at it like that you do have

23:24

a point and You look

23:26

at like the all blacks with Ian Foster

23:28

and now raises in charge, and he's been

23:31

waiting for years He's kept the head coach

23:33

of the barbarians He's done everything

23:35

that he's done the Crusaders not just for one

23:37

season West Eve I suppose was choppered and changing

23:39

and it's the coaches underneath right like that's you

23:41

know We're gonna get Jason Ryan on here Who's

23:44

one of the all blacks coaches and his kind

23:46

of years and years of experience in that role?

23:49

And actually when you outline it like that Andrew then

23:51

you have a point and I suppose if you look

23:54

as well You've lost Owen Farrell you've

23:56

now got George Ford in there They probably wanted

23:58

to play Marcus Smith and give him the key the

24:00

kingdom to attack like a Harlequin

24:02

style and everything revolve around him. But

24:05

yeah, I think when you are one of the biggest unions,

24:07

I'm going to say you're one of them, not the biggest

24:10

union. Do you want more? And I

24:12

suppose this game against Ireland at the weekend, and

24:14

all the fans that are paying to go and

24:16

everyone watching it, they're going to want to see

24:19

England win, but they also want to

24:21

see an astounding style of play. But

24:23

also, the only way they beat Ireland

24:25

is by not playing rugby. You play

24:27

rugby against Ireland in the form that

24:29

they're in. You ain't winning that

24:31

game. So the only way you beat Ireland is kick as

24:33

a balls and hope for them 50 50s.

24:36

I disagree. You think you can play against

24:38

Ireland? Who's beating them? New Zealand. Yeah.

24:41

How did New Zealand beat them? On the edge.

24:43

Right. And going ballistic. The last four times we

24:45

played Ireland, we've gone in with the same game

24:47

plan. Let's kick, let's play pressure. Don't

24:49

fucking talk about that, mate. They

24:51

don't make errors under pressure. Now,

24:54

yes, we have to have our blitz defense and our blitz

24:56

defense is new and it might test them in a different

24:58

way than we tested them before, but you've got to get

25:00

the ball to the edge. You've got to fucking the all

25:02

blacks attacked and played at a pace. Yeah. Look at the

25:04

Irish. They couldn't walk at the end because

25:06

of how intense it was. And you're going to

25:08

have to score 30 odd points

25:10

to beat Ireland now, because their attack is so

25:13

good that you're going to have

25:15

to score tries. So the way to score

25:17

tries, yes, you might get a couple

25:19

of turnovers and, you know, an intercept or

25:21

you can't base your game on that. You

25:24

can't go, oh, we'll put pressure on and we'll

25:26

get an intercept. That is, that can be a

25:28

consequence of good defense, but you have to have

25:30

an attacking mindset and you have to put them

25:32

under pressure in the wide channels. You

25:35

know, we talk about their defense. We spoke about

25:37

a couple of weeks ago that their defense is

25:39

very good, very well organized and very good. One

25:41

tackle, one bullet going over the ball

25:44

across the field, you know, whoever's competing.

25:46

And then they've got 13 men, hopefully

25:48

for their point of view on their feet

25:51

to defend phase after phase after phase. But

25:54

the way to beat them is through

25:56

playing at a pace, getting quick rock speed

25:58

and I think England is probably one of

26:01

the slowest in the six nations. You

26:03

have to get to an edge, you have to have two sides

26:05

to attack from once you've got to the edge, come back and

26:08

put their defence and depression. If we just

26:10

go to a slow kick it, try and

26:13

maul them, try and physically out muscle. We ain't physically

26:16

out muscle in Ireland, are we? Yeah, but when was

26:18

the last time England played like that? When was the

26:20

last time you could go back and say, right, England

26:22

played two-sided attack, getting out to the edge, quick, quick

26:24

rook ball? That's the point. That's what I'm saying about

26:26

we need an evolution. I would rather us have a

26:28

crack and lose by 30, put in

26:31

wits on it, yeah, making errors, whatever. Yeah, we

26:33

talked about Feuwoboso, get his fucking hands on the

26:35

ball as much as possible. Is he going to

26:37

be playing? Is he allowed to play? Yeah, he

26:39

had an exam last week. Okay, that's why. Yeah,

26:41

mate, he's in. He has to start,

26:43

right? He's in. But look at his impact against Scotland

26:46

and people will go, oh yes, he scored the try. Every

26:48

time he touched the ball, he's having a dis. He's

26:50

getting over the game line, he is, meet

26:52

us after contact and they're the key stats,

26:54

right? Meet us after contact. If England don't

26:57

make any meet us after contact against this

26:59

iron defence, we ain't going anywhere. Right,

27:01

so you have to have, meet us after contact, faster

27:04

rook speed, so you're over that game line and it's

27:06

not just about winning the collision, it's about your footwork,

27:08

it's about the detail of the attack. You know, it's

27:10

about the layers of attack, it's about the options that

27:12

a ball carrier has. If he's out there, whoever it

27:14

is on his own and it's like,

27:17

yeah, he's coming on his own, there's no option

27:19

outside, there's no option out the back, there's no

27:21

structure in their attack, so we can go and

27:23

we'll boom three defenders and smash him. Then you

27:25

get slow ball, Ireland get turnovers. You're wanting England

27:28

to play like Ireland. You want

27:30

to beat them. Different layers of attack, footwork

27:32

before taking the ball to the line. You

27:35

ain't playing like the Irish mate. No, no, no, but

27:37

the only team to have beaten Ireland

27:39

over the last however many years was two

27:41

teams. France beat them in the Six Nations

27:43

a couple of years ago and remember that

27:46

game? The most intense high balling

27:48

playtime, they just won, high

27:50

balling playtime. Right, New Zealand, they beat

27:52

them in the first test down there two

27:54

years ago whenever it was and they played at

27:56

Fast Tempo, Sexton came off and Ireland made their

27:58

way to the next. and New Zealand profiting

28:01

and then New Zealand beat them in the quarterfinal by

28:03

playing at a tempo. So if you go into a

28:05

game with we're gonna play territory, we're gonna

28:07

kick it, we're gonna pressurize them, we're not gonna

28:10

attack them too much. We ain't beating them. And that's

28:13

what we've done the last four times. And

28:15

we've lost by say 15 points or whatever it is, and

28:17

everyone's like, oh, you did all right. We're

28:19

never gonna beat them playing that way. And

28:22

I'll just say this to you, Jim. Ireland play

28:25

Scotland in that last game, right

28:28

in the Aviva Stadium, possibly

28:30

for Ireland to go back to back, Grand Slam's first team

28:32

to have ever done it in the Six Nations period. How

28:35

are you wanting Scotland to play against them? Are

28:37

you wanting Scotland to get it into those wider

28:40

channels and have a crack and put them under

28:42

pressure? Or are you wanting Scotland to

28:44

think, you know what, let's tighten it up a bit. Let's

28:46

play a kick game. That's the way to beat them. If

28:48

you're Scotland, what are you saying? Mate,

28:50

it's so difficult, isn't it? Because you look

28:52

at the stats of Ireland and they're number

28:54

one for everything. So if I'm

28:56

Scotland or if I'm England this week and thinking

28:58

how do I beat them, you've got to slow

29:01

the ball down at the breakdown. So Jacqueline is

29:03

off the charts. Jacqueline's king.

29:05

But for me, attack doesn't even come into my mind.

29:07

I'm not even thinking attack, but you are. I'm Sean

29:09

M. Steve Vorswick. But this is what I

29:11

mean. You've sold it to me now because you're saying we've

29:14

got to score 30 points, which we know Scotland can do.

29:16

But if you look at the World Cup and they just

29:18

wipe the floor with us, with their intensity in which they

29:20

play, we just couldn't get into the game. It was

29:23

impossible. But if I'm England, I'm like, well, I've

29:25

actually got a game plan that I think would

29:28

trouble Ireland because we've got some under the hill at

29:30

the breakdown. We've got Ben Earl at the breakdown. We've

29:33

got a good mall. You chat to

29:35

Bernard Jackman, they're one Achilles heel is their scrum. So

29:38

actually, you do maybe want a dogfight and

29:40

you want a scrum, scrum penalty, kick to

29:42

the corner, line out drive,

29:44

barrows getting better and better every single week.

29:47

They're bringing that kind of England crowd behind them

29:49

at Twickenham, where in Scotland we don't have that

29:52

game plan. Like we aren't hugely dominant

29:54

at scrum time. Yeah, we've got a decent line out. So our

29:56

game plan is how you want England to play. Yeah. You're

29:59

very jealous, son. through. You're very jealous.

30:01

I'm just looking back at Ireland's recent

30:03

results, right? Ireland against Wales, 31 points

30:06

they scored. Ireland against Italy, 36. Ireland

30:08

against France, they scored 38. Court

30:11

final, Ireland scored 24. New Zealand scored

30:13

28. Group stage by

30:15

the World Cup, Ireland 36, Scotland 14.

30:18

The only game that they haven't scored

30:20

many points was the group

30:22

stage game against Africa, 13 points

30:25

to 8, but that's playing South Africa, which is

30:27

a whole different beast, right? Tonga

30:29

they scored 59, Romain you're 82, okay, you

30:31

keep going, keep going. 29

30:34

points against England in August last year, 33

30:36

against Italy, 29 against England in the Six

30:40

Nations last year. They scored 22 away up

30:42

at Scotland, 34 against Italy, 32 against France

30:46

in the Six Nations. You keep going back, they're

30:48

scoring 30 plus points pretty much every game. Yeah,

30:50

it's a great point, mate. It's a really great point. In

30:53

my opinion, that's just, you know, we

30:55

can play a risk averse

30:57

game plan like you're talking about and

31:00

we lose by 15 points, right? And

31:02

then we go, oh yeah, no, we had a chance. But

31:04

did we really? I think we need

31:06

to, and I said it in a column

31:09

last week for Ruby Path, we've got to throw caution to

31:11

the wind because what we're learning if we're not, it will

31:13

just be same old, same old. And yes, you have to

31:15

have those components in your game. I'm not saying as you

31:18

wait for under your sticks, but if you've

31:20

got attacking intent, if you're trying to exhaust

31:23

players like Tiger Furlong by moving

31:25

the ball, players like

31:27

Andrew Porter, you know, she ends up

31:30

an absolute machine at Hooker. McCarthy's

31:32

a big boy. We are going to have

31:34

to move the ball and play at a

31:36

pace so that at the end

31:38

of the game, they are walking like they were against New Zealand, trying

31:40

to empty their tank to win a game. And

31:43

that's just my opinion. And that's probably why I'm not a coach.

31:45

I didn't want to become a coach because they work too hard.

31:47

But on that, Andrew, it's going to be

31:49

how they make up the team. So this back line

31:51

scares me. So if you were to put a team

31:53

out for England, and if I'm an Irish player and

31:56

I'm seeing Alex Mitchell, I'm seeing

31:58

Marcus Smith, I'm seeing Manu Chaudhary, a laggie

32:00

Ollie Lawrence in the centre, I'm seeing Feil

32:03

Woboso, I'm seeing Freddie Stewart and I'm seeing

32:05

like a George Furbank or you know, a

32:07

Tommy Freeman on the left wing. Like

32:10

I'm thinking, that's a proper backline,

32:12

albeit they haven't played together, so then the question

32:14

comes around the connections and this is where Scotland,

32:16

this is where I think Scotland are really good

32:18

because you've got Ciole Tuploto and Hugh Jones, like

32:20

they play at the same club, I don't see

32:22

anything now. Not for the next two games James.

32:24

You know what I mean, but then Finn Russell

32:27

and you've got Cam Redpath, that connection that they

32:29

had and we saw how that unlocks England for

32:31

that kind of one opportunist moment. So

32:33

if you're saying basically fuck it, let's go

32:35

out there and do something against Ireland, you

32:37

need to make up the team then, don't

32:39

you, accordingly. That backline you

32:41

spoke about then can play both ways, can play

32:43

abrasive, can play out the line, can

32:46

be physical but can also get the ball to

32:48

the wider channels and you know, put ring

32:50

rows under pressure, give them three people down

32:52

this channel to make decisions and

32:54

then you've got to have accuracy to profit

32:57

and I'm the fucking good now, how good

32:59

are Ireland, how good, I'm trying to convince

33:01

myself. Imagine though, if you're Marcus Smith right,

33:03

you've got the option at the line, you've

33:05

got the option to kick pass, okay,

33:07

very simpleton, but you've got Feo Aboso on your

33:09

shoulder who we know makes metres every time he

33:11

carries the ball, you've got Manu on a short

33:13

line, you've got Ollie Lawrence on an out to

33:15

in line out there, do you want to make

33:18

you think about them options that you've got, as

33:20

good as the defence is, if you can get

33:22

that right on the line, you could live with

33:24

any team. Look at your detail Jim, are you

33:26

an England fan now, are you? I want England

33:28

to win now, I want it to be the

33:30

fans' fan deciding in the parties

33:33

weekend which will be epic, I don't know,

33:35

I just feel like from the outside looking

33:37

in, going based on the feel of the game as opposed

33:39

to watching it back loads. I think

33:41

England are so stuck in they don't know what

33:43

to do with how they want to play, Yeah,

33:45

it's quite obvious how they should play and build

33:48

on the layers, but you think differently. and obviously

33:50

you're thinking differently because you need to score 30

33:52

points to beat Ireland Like you've just said, but

33:54

it's going to be hell of a game, the

33:56

England Ireland game, that's the game of the weekend,

33:58

right? The always

34:00

epic an island do they get complacent?

34:02

No chance suffice to go play know

34:05

to me by surprise when the two

34:07

teams are that math tonight. I

34:09

don't know. I don't know where his come

34:11

from a Dutch? Maybe it's just as as

34:13

from the toy. What's wait you're to a

34:15

that sense to Six Nations results. Don't go

34:18

to win everything sang and ago this week.

34:20

Or two beers and also it's yes

34:22

and Scotland isn't. These companies been history

34:24

other night mob radio people to it

34:27

lasted f the Arctic games a hard

34:29

to predict or that's what I feel

34:31

like. The are just home advantage. And

34:35

I just a doctor feel something coming

34:37

from England? Wow. James. You

34:40

mentioned Scotland? Italy against Scotland

34:42

on Saturday. Your. Tweets:

34:44

Scotland's going well as Madison

34:46

Slam. Is this a banana

34:49

skin? We saw Italy much improved in

34:51

France? Probably should have One could have

34:53

won the boss that suffered. Say it,

34:55

all that stuff. but. Can. He

34:57

said upset. Yeah. Casino and or

34:59

saying that will be all that. I think

35:02

it's going to be a tough game for

35:04

Scotland a man's yeah, I already don't think

35:06

Italy and again, how many times have I

35:08

said this? A getting better. The getting better.

35:11

But. It's then up law can see

35:13

the way that it's replay code

35:15

Trouble Scotland Depth: What does that

35:17

mean? Because Scotland a plane very

35:19

well other than any other line

35:21

manager of yeah Manage hello. Ignacio.

35:24

Breaks once you are the you've got

35:26

a couple what So they've got a

35:28

game plan. Went on a history. maybe

35:30

it's make I'm birds are burned from

35:32

years gone by. The Italy, Bird Scotland

35:34

close immersive last year. who have ah

35:36

that video that came out last Wake

35:38

of Donkey where's.gov to be? It's they

35:40

And then as big as years ago.

35:44

Muslim girl Bob Bob a rebel elderly

35:46

man I'll have an idea or that

35:48

may sergio. the cigarettes in a shopping

35:50

mall is now us as bang inside

35:53

view of us. have an advocacy of on

35:55

his wife is arsenal soldier eight of it on

35:57

the sex on us ah said years ago have

35:59

never you run so quick? That might be the fastest I've

36:01

ever run. I think on GPS they picked it up, that was the

36:03

quickest I've been all game. Yeah.

36:06

11 night. You know, I love Italy

36:08

as well, you know, and the game

36:10

at the weekend is more than just

36:12

Italy playing Scotland. Massimo Cottita, who was

36:14

our coach, who played for Italy, who

36:16

passed away during Covid and the sad

36:18

story around that. So there's

36:20

more on this game emotionally for both teams.

36:22

A big shout out as well to Marcelo,

36:24

his brother, who's doing some stuff over the

36:26

weekend for Massimo. I was going to

36:28

go, I've got a couple of things at home that

36:30

I need to deal with, but I was

36:32

going to go at the weekend, actually as

36:35

a fan, and spend some time with Massimo's

36:37

family in the lead up to that. I

36:39

just unfortunately can't go, but wicked place to

36:41

go and play, Rome, the whole gladiatorial feeling

36:43

around that. And you think

36:45

about Italy and how well they've played

36:47

in parts during the Six Nations, mentally,

36:49

emotionally for them. And I know

36:51

they've not beaten Scotland in a while, but I

36:53

just think like inside this will be the one

36:55

where they're like, actually, like we can beat Scotland.

36:58

They've run us close last year at Murrayfield. If

37:00

you remember that game, I think Black-Inghorn scored a

37:02

try at the end of the game. But if

37:04

we are going to be taken seriously and at

37:07

that event in Oban at the weekend, I was

37:09

on stage and I said, oh, this is the

37:11

best team Scotland have ever had. And you remember

37:13

Johnny Beattie, who I played for Scotland with, his

37:15

dad who played for Scotland, the British Irish Lions,

37:17

that's well cut me off, mid-sensors, like what are

37:19

you talking about? The Scotland 1990 team and like

37:21

back in the end, I said, no.

37:24

I said, man, this is the best Scotland team we've ever

37:26

had. Like, it's not even talking about a comparison. Were you

37:28

nearly scrapping on stage with a fellow Scott? Well, I just

37:30

let him go. I was like, all right, off you go.

37:32

Mate, you go and say, if you're telling me that

37:35

the team's gone by have been better than

37:37

this team, then you're not watching the same

37:39

game. Yeah, all right. What a grand slam

37:41

when the game was amateur. It's

37:43

just a different era. But to a point, I

37:46

understood what he was saying because we can talk about

37:48

it all you want. If you go based on the

37:50

World Cup, we're nowhere near it. Forget whatever group we

37:52

were in. But now I think,

37:54

Andrew, you're starting to see it the way that

37:57

we played against England, the way that we played

37:59

against France. France aren't

38:01

amazing. That first half against Wales and we

38:03

know... Good team, James. Yeah, we're

38:05

a good team. You can tell yourself that.

38:07

Good team. So we need to go to

38:09

Italy. And lose. In years gone

38:11

by it might have been the case. I think it's going to be tougher

38:14

than we expect, but I expect us to win.

38:16

I'm like, we should be again comfortable to say

38:18

that we're going to be Italy and we're going

38:20

to set up that game at Paddy's

38:22

weekend, which is going to be epic. And we've never

38:24

been in that position again. And you can keep... Oh,

38:27

we're finishing third. We're doing better. We beat England

38:29

again. Like, listen to Finn after the England

38:32

game. We had him on stage and we're

38:34

having a crack. He's got a warm kind of tenants in his

38:36

hands. How bad is that?

38:38

Warm tenants. Absolutely. Horrid. We're

38:41

going out tonight, Finn. And he's like, yeah, but

38:43

we're thinking about the Italy game. Like, we want

38:45

to do something. He ain't thinking about Italy after

38:47

beating England. He's out, mate. He's out till five

38:49

in the morning. I don't know that. I just

38:51

imagine he was. But in order to be taken

38:53

seriously, this Scotland team need to beat Italy and

38:55

set up that final weekend. There

38:58

you go. And the pressure's on. The do it well

39:00

means that, as in playing well, not necessarily winning by

39:02

20 points, but playing really

39:04

well, having a plan A and plan B,

39:06

like Dan Bigger said, when the going gets

39:09

tough. The tough get go. Because it's going

39:11

to get tough. Italy a fucking good one.

39:13

When the going gets tough. Yeah. Just on

39:15

Italy. Big shout as well. Jake Polentery. Yeah,

39:17

sad news, that. Mottarri. He did remarkably well

39:19

to get back, didn't he? Mate. To get

39:21

back from that. I was hearing all sorts

39:24

of stuff. That his leg was basically just

39:26

barely moving. He was dragging a leg around. So to

39:28

get back where he got to,

39:31

but it'll be wicked in Rome. But I do

39:33

envisage a Scotland win. Yes. I'm not going to

39:35

predict the scores because Austin Healy's going to come

39:37

and say, well, I'm going to bet you a

39:39

thousand pounds. Are you bothered that, though, didn't you?

39:41

It could be a fucking blizzard, mate. The weatherman,

39:44

am I? You could be a grand richer, but

39:46

you bottled it. I'd rather be five grand poorer

39:48

than Scotland win. Like, I ain't bothered. Yeah, fair

39:50

enough. Go on, Austin. Let's have a battle there.

39:52

We do. He listens to the part. He said

39:54

that this is his source of knowledge. Knowledge. He

39:56

gets it all from there. Yeah, it's interesting that

39:59

obviously. And to go back to

40:01

the England Ireland game, the way the table is

40:03

of desperate for England to win at the weekend,

40:05

if we don't win, I desperately don't want Ireland

40:07

to get a bonus point because that means Six

40:10

Nations is done and dusted in

40:12

terms of the actual championship. How good would it be

40:14

to get to that last weekend with

40:16

the championship on the line? And if you're an

40:18

Ireland fan listening, you'll be like, fuck the championship

40:21

with Grand Slam. Like,

40:23

it would be amazing for the game for

40:25

Scotland. Scotland go to Italy, get five. Scotland

40:28

don't manage to get a bonus point win

40:30

over England. And it's on like Donkey Kong

40:32

for the last weekend and Paddy's weekend, Scott's

40:35

coming over with a sniff. Like,

40:37

you should be finishing second at worst now

40:39

in this Six Nations, shouldn't you really? Yeah,

40:42

we should. And that's what it comes down

40:44

to. Progress. We're going to do something. Great

40:46

progress. Second is as good as first for you boys,

40:48

isn't it, Jiv? Never won

40:50

it. No, it's not Andrew. Andrew.

40:52

Take a second. Mate, we're good

40:54

now. Don't be horrible. You're

40:57

way better than us, mate. Humbly. I

41:00

have no problem saying that. There's

41:03

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a Honda. Honda, the power

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learn more. Andrew. Yes,

41:26

James. The next game is

41:28

tough to call Wales versus France.

41:30

France all over the place. I bet there have been on the

41:32

phone to the department saying don't go out in LA, get yourself

41:35

home. We need you. Just for one

41:37

game. Just to settle the sea. Please. Come

41:40

home. It's a mess in France, isn't it?

41:42

The mess got bigger after the

41:45

Italy game. You said

41:47

there's issues, talked about where there's issues in

41:49

the England camp. Issues in France

41:51

and the hangover and Galtier and all that stuff,

41:53

pointing the finger at Sean and then Who

41:55

knows what's going on. I Have heard there's a bit of

41:57

unrest within the coaching set up in France. The

42:00

did make some changes after the World

42:02

Cup and how those coaches is a

42:04

settled in and working with the Flyers

42:06

and a season. the failed sites while

42:08

to be confident about this one about

42:10

some issues the first off get Scotland's

42:12

know shocking and they came back into

42:14

well could have should have a in

42:16

England possibly at Twickenham might a couple

42:18

of hours and then ran three. They

42:20

get dominated by island that. Against

42:22

us off was appalling a second off as

42:24

much better said some sites or yeah I

42:27

mean. I. Think I mean this

42:29

is the game on Sunday where it's

42:31

so hard to know what's gonna happen

42:33

says which fenced and it's did he

42:35

about sale cliche of which French team

42:37

turns up away from home that that

42:39

kickback can down the right on. I

42:41

rarely as a last few years but

42:43

it's a question marks come back on

42:45

performance on desire on skill application gave

42:47

the had some injuries and some issues

42:49

and yet to the games on a

42:51

bag or in often don't tease out

42:54

now as well so you know hurting

42:56

them but I got so much talent.

42:58

But they're so disorganized. Again for answer with

43:00

us who came in and saw it that

43:02

you know where their away form John Short

43:04

John Edwards the sean came in and saw

43:06

a thought that kind of emotional up and

43:09

down about was bored the big reasons he

43:11

came in the rye as it does it

43:13

with way I was by sars lions like.

43:16

Northern A hard. Straight.

43:18

Talk in and if there is an issue was

43:20

short. And. Fat, The and. And.

43:22

Not relationship has broken down with and you

43:25

can understand and you can see the massive

43:27

influence so much or as had on that

43:29

front teeth and you think about that will

43:31

be seen as a recent years but the

43:34

Warren Gatland going up against Shaun Edwards i

43:36

think front a that of the Taken. Already

43:39

there are think they are fucking all over

43:41

the place. Today we lose to Italy how

43:43

they did at the weekend they would mousepad

43:45

the nicotine large pasa against. Didn't take their

43:48

chances but they've just gone back like they

43:50

did. I get we go to overall grandson

43:52

about the boot camp. Everything you read and

43:54

coming out is like a massive loss. Have

43:56

an unsung to pump been. Deceived.

43:59

you can there with as if your team lot

44:01

front of the top fourteen and the way which

44:03

that seems a thrive in the money in the

44:05

game that's how commercially viable a boy and as

44:08

the coaching staff that they've got I won the

44:10

seven Zeiss the other one the seven said i

44:12

like as a different. Because. Of the

44:14

fonts have a seth must a spotlight

44:16

on us to be fat. but the

44:19

board you reckon untrue. Why? Oh, have

44:21

you seen enough during the tournament to

44:23

think that they can do something that

44:25

got a game plan that is very

44:27

easy to follow as a group apply

44:29

Obscene enough from Wales to see. Really?

44:31

Get past the again That big

44:34

issue is the first off as

44:36

herself against Scotland and first off

44:38

against Ireland. The. Games on

44:40

of time on our the nearly came

44:42

back in Scotland baby ah to say

44:45

islam and ever strong when game see

44:47

count give sort of out as stop

44:49

and the at a conference they get

44:51

from that resolves been well class during

44:53

the Six Nations as has Wainwright and

44:55

about raise it I see look at

44:57

the Frenchman rise of Drink and be

44:59

fit the Charles Olive on that's awesome

45:01

them awesome night and can wear a

45:03

coat without physicality because historically the old

45:05

Wow teams have been able to this

45:07

was team that physicality is the question

45:10

mark. And Elisa some hours

45:12

from them. By the way, the best

45:14

laugh response from what are the offload

45:16

planned on and safer abyss. But yes

45:19

I can say because of the disconnects

45:21

with. What? We've known about the

45:23

French team over the last year's to where

45:25

it's at now and how they look a

45:28

little bit disorganized and he i miss in

45:30

that time as man making errors and basically

45:32

defense team could always rely on Du Pont

45:34

to create something out nothing. A night lists

45:36

every one and then they go into Canada.

45:39

try and get on. it's a machine it

45:41

was hard to stop. Without. Du

45:43

Pont and how disorganized the have been

45:45

and notes while would certainly fancy their

45:47

chances are think France love too much

45:49

but while just need to cow the

45:51

air as and and is all about

45:53

the first off for them because that

45:55

put patches of games together the how

45:57

the first off against England they were

45:59

winning. The time and then second half

46:01

they made our isn't and got bullied a

46:03

bit. a different guys that bullying game. I

46:06

don't think wells have the answer. The set

46:08

pieces gonna be massive for France because that's

46:10

why they can. You can eke out penalties

46:12

from scrum and be. I kicked Salon outline

46:15

out. Dries that they've got seem as power

46:17

think of friends but the Welsh will fancy

46:19

themselves with the sky is the French team.

46:22

In. The first three games of the Six

46:24

Nations in France realistically should be flight three

46:26

last night as we speak in in that

46:28

was unheard of either last few years to

46:31

the big campaign for grand slam with Ireland

46:33

Soviet. wow so back himself. Calcium doing it.

46:36

I think France allows a little bit

46:38

too much if they can not have

46:40

the the issues that they had with

46:42

Anthony flies around and injuries read cardinal

46:44

law stuff as I keep up their

46:46

noses claim that in France when this

46:49

button areca wells went. By.

46:51

Eight. Are you guys make

46:53

one up for lenses off?

46:55

Yeah. Red card for Francis.

46:57

Emotionally highlighted I see no

46:59

Cipolla disability Pabon right? Andrew.

47:02

Anglin. To the do ever island

47:04

we can do it by dancing

47:06

We Wealth Comedy Garlands by. Eighteen.

47:10

Oh go on get ago England's on go

47:12

they want valuable gone gym yeah that's because

47:14

you want at night you want to do

47:16

you mean it does. Think it put is

47:18

gonna come sword under some point for island

47:21

the run in the six Nations estimates so

47:23

we're getting the by for a kind a

47:25

yes nice amagansett silly Scotland give I'll go

47:27

for Scotland when the we tough I reckon

47:29

it will be six seven points made the

47:31

I hope eight and I hope we get

47:34

the bonus point attempts at we got a

47:36

bonus point out that unless we got a

47:38

good start but we gotta get bonuses. Donut.

47:40

So yeah. I guess gone by this point

47:42

together I'm gonna go all in. Scotland,

47:45

By eleventh navigate when feel gets caught

47:47

available. On. Ago Italy by want.

47:50

You. said initiated i see we had a

47:52

great you said doesn't upset commend you

47:54

said the results will not go to

47:56

why everyone thinks this weekend so i'm

47:58

would ago I don't think it'll

48:00

happen. I'm just going to, for the crack, Italy by one. Oh

48:03

gosh, you're a horror. Well, Jim,

48:05

we're going to take a break now from the six nations. Cause

48:07

I caught up with Leicester

48:09

head coach, Dan McElla. Lovely.

48:12

Very generous. Delighted to

48:14

say I'm now joined by Leicester Tigers

48:16

head coach slash director of rugby, the

48:19

Aussie legend. Dan McElla joins us. How

48:21

are you pal? I'm really good, Andy.

48:23

Thanks for having me on board, mate. I listened

48:25

to plenty of episodes of the rugby pod. So

48:27

it's nice to sit here and have a chat,

48:29

mate. Oh, no. Sometimes I don't know if that's

48:32

a good thing or a bad thing that you

48:34

listen to it. I'm always kind to Leicester because

48:36

I'm part of the family, aren't I? Yeah, no,

48:38

no. I certainly appreciate your support. And

48:42

being a Leicester, Leicester old boy wouldn't expect anything

48:44

different, mate. There you go. There you go. It's

48:46

great to have you on. How are things with

48:48

you? Let's start first and foremost with, and it

48:51

seems like an age since you came

48:53

over from Australia in the summer and

48:55

obviously I've seen you up at Wellford Road a

48:57

few times, Matyoli Woods, Wellford Road, I should say.

48:59

How have you enjoyed the transition from Australia, you

49:02

know, obviously being part of the Brumbies, being part

49:04

of the Wallabies and then into the the

49:06

Premiership and the Champions Cup and all that stuff and settling

49:08

you and your family in Leicester, because that's a massive thing,

49:10

isn't it, coming over from a bloody

49:12

nice warm country to good old England and Leicester?

49:14

It's been great, to be honest. It's, you know,

49:16

I'm not going to lie, it's a big move.

49:18

And you get all the emotions with a move

49:20

like this, especially when you got married with two

49:22

teenage daughters. But from their end, it's been seamless,

49:24

to be honest, to fit into school and life.

49:27

You know, really easily develop their own friendship groups.

49:29

They're really happy, which means that my wife, Carla,

49:31

is really happy. And obviously then that means that

49:34

I'm really happy as well. So I think from

49:36

my end, you know, when you go to any

49:38

rugby club on the planet, we're all like

49:40

minded. You walk in and all of a

49:43

sudden you got 50 mates and you just

49:45

crack on with what you're trying to achieve together as a

49:47

group. And the most important thing for me is making sure

49:49

that the girls are settled and

49:51

really enjoying the experience. And so far, so

49:53

good. You know, you have your days where

49:55

you miss your family and miss

49:57

your friends and that sort of thing. That's just human nature.

50:00

isn't it? But overall, you

50:02

know, loving being involved in the

50:04

premiership and the Champions Cup and our

50:06

player, Matt Ollie Woods, Wellford Road in front of

50:08

25,000 people. I said it

50:10

before I arrived here. That's why I signed

50:13

and obviously with a roster and a

50:15

group that I think can win things and hasn't been

50:17

all roses by any means but we're building. Good

50:19

stuff. What I want to talk to you about

50:22

and something that our listeners might not know about

50:24

you and not looking at back at your coaching

50:26

career. You've been very prominent obviously in Australia and

50:28

within super rugby and had a little

50:31

stint in Japan as well, but you actually started

50:33

your coaching career and you played over this side

50:35

of the world as well, didn't you? Yeah, I

50:37

did. I was fortunate enough as a

50:40

20-21 year old. I played up in Aberdeen

50:42

actually just in the Scottish club competition up

50:44

there. Had a year up there and thought

50:46

about sticking around and doing the three-year thing

50:48

and playing for Scotland. Obviously, Michaela, very

50:51

very Scottish. Yeah. We originate from near

50:53

the Isle of Mullah. I always had

50:55

the dream of wanting to play professionally

50:57

back in Australia. So I went home.

50:59

I didn't achieve that goal initially and

51:01

something I've always wanted to be was

51:03

a coach. Ever since I was a

51:05

10-year-old, I always wanted to be a

51:07

coach. I always had that sort of

51:09

analytical thinking whenever I watched the game

51:11

and an opportunity in Wicklow in Ireland

51:13

popped up to go over there as

51:15

a player coach and I took that as

51:18

a 25-year-old which was different. You know, coaching blokes

51:20

that were 10 years older than you and a

51:22

great experience. Love the coaching side of things

51:25

as well as being able to play and

51:27

still have some great friendships from both Scotland

51:29

and Ireland. I think that's the great part

51:31

about rugby, isn't it? You know, the global

51:33

game and the friendships that you develop through

51:35

getting those sort of opportunities. I think we had 15 guys

51:38

from Wicklow came over for the Leinster game recently.

51:41

I've been up to Edinburgh to catch up with some mates

51:44

a number of times since but yeah,

51:46

that's where my coaching career started was

51:48

in Wicklow. It was interesting, you know,

51:51

having that coach, guys, that's

51:53

35, probably not in the prime

51:55

condition of their career in this Australian lake

51:57

turning up, making them do laps and run.

52:00

kills and burpees and all sorts of things

52:02

because I had a real desire to want

52:04

to get a group fit and off the

52:06

back of that we'd have some success which we did in

52:08

the end. But they still

52:10

curse me even today for how hard I

52:12

trained them. Geez, you'd have hated coaching me

52:14

then I reckon. We

52:18

probably would have banged heads I'd imagine. It's

52:20

not one of those players and his team

52:22

mates but no, that's all part of it.

52:24

Yeah, it certainly is. How are you finding

52:26

the difference between Super Rugby

52:28

coaching over in the Southern Hemisphere, now

52:30

the Prem, you had huge success obviously

52:32

winning the Super Rugby with the Brumbies.

52:35

Was it a couple of finals as well? You beat

52:37

the Reds didn't you? Your birth team, how did that

52:39

go down? Yeah, it's interesting because

52:41

I'm a born and bred Queenslander

52:43

and obviously the Brumbies and the

52:45

Reds through that period developed a

52:47

really strong rivalry. I probably

52:50

wasn't on too many Queensland Reds supporters,

52:52

Christmas card leads at that

52:54

particular time but I looked at two really

52:56

good teams that used to go hard at

52:58

it. We won one and they won one.

53:00

But it was always weird going back to

53:02

Suncorp Stadium and my loyalty

53:05

and desire to want the

53:07

Brumbies to win and do well overtook any loyalty

53:10

that I had towards Queensland from being

53:12

born there. But yeah, so

53:14

it was an interesting period. I

53:17

think overall with the difference with the Premyship

53:19

and with Super Rugby, both

53:23

quality competitions that they're different. They're

53:25

different for a number of reasons.

53:27

Obviously conditions are very different up

53:29

here especially from that November period through

53:32

to February. Hopefully pitchers

53:34

start to firm up. But here

53:36

the emphasis on kick strategy and

53:38

the detail around not

53:40

over playing in your end and playing in the

53:42

right areas of the field, I think there's

53:45

a lot more emphasis in and around that

53:47

side of the game up north here. I

53:49

knew that before I arrived and that's aligned

53:51

with how I think as a coach anyway.

53:54

I think it's Super Rugby, they're probably a

53:56

little less risk averse I suppose. You'll

53:59

see teams a little chance there. arm out of

54:01

their end, potentially overplayed too much,

54:03

which then creates opportunity for the defensive side.

54:06

Very physical up here, the real focus

54:08

on set piece and the defensive side

54:10

of the game allow for that. And

54:13

there's a huge focus in the South around skill

54:15

development and that continuity game and

54:18

being prepared and happy to play

54:20

high and deep interface play to

54:22

challenge and stress the defence. And

54:24

then off the back of that, obviously coming over to

54:27

Leicester and your Australian DNA, as you say,

54:29

as a coach is to play a bit more than over

54:31

here, but your way you talk about

54:33

the game and understand the game is

54:35

probably slightly Northern Hemisphere based right, understanding

54:38

the kicking game and all that stuff. We're seeing

54:40

teams in the prem playing a lot more this

54:42

year. I know Leicester's DNA has been over the

54:44

last sort of three or four years under Steve

54:46

and then Wiggy prior to you

54:49

was very much risk averse. Let's kick it.

54:52

Let's drive. Let's have our set piece. And the Leicester DNA shit

54:54

when I played it was a big forward pack,

54:56

Udi kick it and hope for the best. I

54:59

didn't really play much rugby after that, but it was successful. How

55:01

have you tried to marry that up with entertainment

55:03

factor, how the game's developing, but

55:05

also develop our, I say our,

55:07

Leicester's attacking structures because

55:09

there was success the way they

55:11

played under Steve winning the prem.

55:14

But ultimately it's very similar now. We

55:16

want to see ball in hand, but you've got to

55:19

have the basics and the fundamentals of the game sorted

55:21

first, right? Yeah, I think the

55:23

first thing is, you know, you talk about Leicester

55:25

Tigers DNA or whatever buzz word you want to

55:27

use. How they play and how they've

55:29

played for many years. Naturally,

55:31

there's alignment with my coaching principles and

55:34

what I value as a coach. You

55:36

know, the importance of really clear kicking

55:39

game and kick strategy and the importance of

55:41

set piece, defence as important as

55:43

anything. So I was naturally very aligned with that.

55:45

And that's what attracted me to the job in

55:48

the first place. But on the other

55:50

hand, you want to evolve and you want to

55:52

grow. And that's what we're trying

55:54

to do here at the moment is evolve our game and

55:56

make sure that we've got the ability to win games. And

56:00

and get in the arm wrestling dominated. Set

56:02

price and don't live through spot kick strategy.

56:05

But. Also have you do a double inferior

56:07

twenty I'd and score tries and. And

56:09

I think a lot of that for me

56:12

These guys differences aside, well organized and and

56:14

so strong and especially in this competition in

56:16

I even a heavy price difference with that

56:18

launch bay defence he five more times than

56:20

not. Appear. I'll be seeing when

56:23

the starting introduce that now. So how

56:25

can you unstructured the defense have any

56:27

brightly the fence down through. our

56:29

through driving around structured situation in that way to

56:31

can game comes into it. And. What

56:33

you do of the Bucky Kicking game and

56:35

then having the confidence in the belief to

56:37

be Alice a spice and identify spice from

56:39

that. And. Then back yourself to i'm

56:41

to attack it and that might be in the

56:43

front lawn and lobby in the backfield. Saw.

56:45

Think that far the evolution were not ever

56:48

been. I've. Got. A pilot the Harlem

56:50

Globetrotters or which will imply lot fiji

56:52

that's never gonna work here. But.

56:54

What we need to do is we need to

56:56

continue to grow and and with applies in a

56:58

position where I feel like they have the confidence

57:00

in the skill set. To. Be our

57:03

got play and i play bay or

57:05

played say side. Is. A real first

57:07

for it from the drop on the plaza. Really

57:09

hungry to develop that sort of guymon. And.

57:11

Resorted bought but it takes time and

57:13

hardest part of the game due to

57:16

grow and evolve is is attacked because

57:18

the seventy different moving components and parts

57:20

to it that was early start to

57:22

face and transparent have rather have the

57:24

next few months. That. Growth I'm

57:26

at evolution continues and of son

57:28

out this of see been no

57:30

premiership league matches You boys have

57:32

had cramps of cup semifinal against

57:34

ceiling what she wants to fall

57:36

guy not one that really tough

57:38

really tough Love there are there

57:41

are so I did some you

57:43

know actually looked at is applying

57:45

group of twelve hundred professional caps

57:47

is around sixty to seventy international

57:49

caps. It's probably not you Santa

57:51

Jpg saw the Antarctic are you

57:53

feeling with. Would. compete in the premiership

57:55

and and and i did well and funny

57:57

guy down there on a sunday It

58:00

was going to be a challenge and it certainly was

58:03

and that's what you want. You'd rather have that challenge

58:05

at this time of the year than winning that game

58:08

by 50 points, which we never thought we'd do. How

58:10

have you found the truncatedness of this season? You've come

58:12

in as a head coach, probably

58:14

the hardest season possible because there's a

58:17

World Cup, then there's this long period

58:19

of no-premiership games and it's

58:21

a very different rugby season in England compared

58:23

to what we normally see. How

58:25

do you feel about there being no-premiership games? Do you

58:27

think there should be games throughout the Six Nations or

58:29

how do we get the balance of all eyes on

58:31

the Six Nations, then all eyes back on the prem?

58:33

Because a lot of people are struggling

58:36

a little bit with that now, but this is

58:38

what we wanted around the premiership, not having games

58:40

during the Six Nations period. It's tough for the

58:42

clubs as well in between, isn't it? Yeah, look,

58:44

I quite like it. I think, I

58:47

remember last year watching during Six

58:49

Nations, Les Lesnar played Northampton. It

58:51

wasn't long after I signed and

58:54

you don't have any of the

58:56

internationals playing. So, whilst it's

58:58

a great opportunity for other players to step up

59:00

and play in front of a sold-out, Matty

59:02

Ollie Woods, Walford Road, you want the best

59:04

players playing in those big games. So, I

59:06

think what they've done, the decision that they've

59:08

made to put the competition on

59:10

hold for the Six Nations period, I think that's

59:12

a good thing. Do you need two

59:14

fellow weeks? I'm not sure on that. Can you

59:17

play three games, have a week off and then

59:19

play the last two and compress it

59:21

that little bit more? That's something to

59:23

consider, but I think overall in terms of giving

59:25

the premiership a break and being able to have

59:27

the best players playing in those big games towards

59:29

the back end of the season is

59:32

only a good thing for the competition. And again, off

59:34

the back of a World Cup and it's different with

59:36

the Cup being at the start and having so many

59:38

players away, it was always going to be a little

59:40

bit trickier to manage. I think we had 12 players

59:43

away at the World Cup or players that

59:45

were either at the World Cup or injured

59:47

in the course of the World Cup and

59:49

then another four or five unavailable. So, that

59:52

was always going to mean a tricky start, but

59:54

I knew that was going to be the case

59:56

when I first signed on. So, we

59:58

were prepared for that. that what was

1:00:01

going to be really important was how we got

1:00:03

that reintegration of our of our internationals back into

1:00:05

into the Tigers system how quickly we

1:00:07

could make that work and get them up to speed

1:00:09

and and start to make

1:00:11

some make some change and some headway and

1:00:13

we feel that we're starting to do that.

1:00:16

Let's talk about England then middle of the Six Nations played

1:00:19

two one two to start off with then we go

1:00:21

up to Scotland and I'm probably sure you were supporting

1:00:23

Scotland even though you're employed in England and

1:00:25

it was a tough watch for an England fan

1:00:28

and I'm an England fan now. Where do you

1:00:30

see England at the minute? How do you see

1:00:32

the development of the team? What would you like

1:00:34

to see? We've got some players involved, Freddie Stewart

1:00:36

who got dropped, a number of other guys, Dan

1:00:38

Cole, Hazy's involved, Olly Chesham, there's loads

1:00:41

of guys that are involved in this England team from the Leicester

1:00:43

set up. How do you see England at the minute and what

1:00:45

do you think they need to do to try

1:00:47

and improve effectively? Yeah look I

1:00:49

think they've had they've had periods within games

1:00:51

where they've done some good things and obviously

1:00:53

there's a style and a way that they

1:00:56

want to play and and they're

1:00:58

probably trying to evolve their game not too differently to

1:01:00

what we're trying to do at the Tigers to be

1:01:02

honest and play to the strength and the skill set

1:01:04

of the players that they're selecting. You know obviously

1:01:07

with Felix coming in there you can see a

1:01:09

genuine shift in how they want to defend there's

1:01:11

still a really clear strategy around how they want

1:01:13

to kick the ball and what they can do

1:01:15

off the back of that and then I think

1:01:17

that their attack is something they're trying to

1:01:19

evolve and grow and use the likes

1:01:22

of Freeman and obviously Furbank

1:01:24

in the Scotland game and Olly

1:01:26

Lawrence and use the strengths

1:01:28

and skill that they possess naturally so obviously

1:01:31

at the moment it's not the finished product

1:01:33

but I think as I said it's the

1:01:35

hardest part of the game to change and

1:01:37

want to get growth in so they'd

1:01:40

like to have gone up to Scotland and won

1:01:42

that game. Scotland are a difficult side to play

1:01:44

especially up at Murrayfield they put you under pressure

1:01:46

in and around the breakdown they can hurt you

1:01:48

off scraps and off turnover ball and that's exactly

1:01:51

what they did and they've probably got a

1:01:53

winger up there at the moment who's one of the best

1:01:55

if not the best in the world in terms of his

1:01:57

finishing ability and there's not too many of

1:02:00

his size of his speed and his power and

1:02:02

his ability to sniff out a try like

1:02:05

Duhan is in a rare patch

1:02:08

of form. So overall with England

1:02:10

I think they're slightly starting

1:02:12

to make headway but no doubt they'll want to

1:02:14

see some more transfer and some more change from

1:02:16

the areas that they've worked on from an attacking

1:02:18

point of view over the next couple of weeks.

1:02:21

Now England play Ireland on Saturday and I'm a

1:02:23

bit nervous about how many we could

1:02:25

lose by but there's a little part of me that thinks we can

1:02:27

do a job as well. How do you see that with your Irish

1:02:30

background as well and your mates from Wicklow? They'll be coming

1:02:32

over, won't they? Yeah they will be.

1:02:35

Without a doubt they'll be 10

1:02:37

points deep in the closeout

1:02:39

fortune. But look, I think

1:02:41

if you look at Ireland they're obviously playing a

1:02:43

stall and a brand of rugby that you've got

1:02:45

to admire at the moment and I think you

1:02:47

admire it for the best part of two or

1:02:50

three years. A team that's incredibly

1:02:52

cohesive and the majority of them play one week

1:02:54

for Leinster or all season for Leinster and

1:02:56

then they put on the green jersey

1:02:58

and play for Ireland. The coaching group spend

1:03:00

together for a long period of time. Now

1:03:02

they're very clear on what's required of one

1:03:05

another on both sides of the ball. You've

1:03:07

got to put them under pressure. You've got to

1:03:09

put them under pressure through kicking game and through

1:03:11

defensive game and not allow them to play off

1:03:13

front football and off quick ball. It's as simple as that.

1:03:16

You've got to disrupt them in and around the breakdown and

1:03:18

disrupt them physically. I think England has certainly had

1:03:21

the ability to really go after them up

1:03:23

front from a physical perspective and see

1:03:25

how they react to that and then take your

1:03:27

three, six, nine and take your opportunities when you

1:03:31

get them in the opposition 22 and

1:03:33

apply some scoreboard pressure. Sports

1:03:36

are a wonderful thing which is why

1:03:38

we're so engrossed or love sports so

1:03:40

much because upsets happen and

1:03:42

if anyone thinks that England had no

1:03:45

chance this weekend, they're hitting themselves because

1:03:47

I'm sure Andy Farrell and Mike Caton

1:03:50

and the coaching staff there would be well aware of the

1:03:52

strengths that England will possess. Now the last thing I'm going

1:03:54

to ask you then obviously you've got a massive few weeks

1:03:56

coming up. Premship Cup final first and foremost

1:03:58

then you've got Gloucester again on the front. Friday night,

1:04:00

but then the build up to the big one,

1:04:02

the last 16 game over in Dublin against Leinster.

1:04:05

Talk to us about that last 16 game and

1:04:07

how you're going to turn the tide and hopefully

1:04:09

go over to the Aviva, I presume it's that,

1:04:11

I think, and get the victory because it's going

1:04:13

to be a tough ask. Obviously, all the boys

1:04:15

are playing for Ireland. Hopefully, they're

1:04:18

celebrating too hard if they've won the championship and they're

1:04:21

not ready to go back to Leinster. But how do

1:04:23

you see it going, mate? It's a massive game. Yeah.

1:04:25

Well, there's no greater challenge, is there? I

1:04:27

don't think, certainly in the Champions Cup, than

1:04:30

going to Dublin and playing Leinster. Look,

1:04:32

I think we take confidence out of portions

1:04:34

of that game that we played at Matty

1:04:36

Oly Woods, Walford Road. A few

1:04:38

weeks back, we started well, got out to 10-0, probably

1:04:40

we had. Didn't have ever the luck that you need

1:04:42

against Leinster. A couple of decisions that didn't go away,

1:04:45

all of a sudden it's 10-0, all of a sudden

1:04:47

it's 15-10 at half time. I think it was. It

1:04:49

wasn't a try. I said it on here, mate. It

1:04:51

wasn't a try. Double movement. Yeah, yeah.

1:04:53

We felt like we were well and truly in that contest. The

1:04:56

challenge with Leinster and Lara Schaller or any of

1:04:58

the best teams is you've got to go with

1:05:00

them for 80 minutes. I genuinely

1:05:02

feel that we can do that. As I

1:05:04

said, sport's a wonderful thing. What

1:05:07

greater challenge is there than going over there

1:05:09

and trying to create an upset? Because I

1:05:11

don't think anyone besides the 23 players and

1:05:13

the 20 support staff, or however many

1:05:15

it is that travel with us and

1:05:17

obviously are rusted on supporters,

1:05:20

most people won't give us a chance. So we'll go over

1:05:22

there and we'll throw the kitchen sink at them and we

1:05:24

won't die wondering. Awesome. Well,

1:05:27

Dan, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Wish

1:05:29

you all the best over the next few

1:05:32

weeks. Prim Cup final and the big dance when

1:05:34

we get to Dublin. Obviously the massive finish of

1:05:36

the premiership season as well. Hopefully we'll

1:05:38

have at least one bit of silverware to

1:05:40

stick in the Andy Goote suite slash Champions

1:05:43

Club next season. Yeah, brilliant Andy. I appreciate

1:05:45

it, mate. Thanks very much for your time

1:05:48

and I enjoyed the chat. Good man. Top

1:05:51

bloke. Top bloke. Yeah, sorry to miss it, Andrew. Thanks

1:05:53

for holding the fort. Yeah, I'll see you all to

1:05:55

the next time. Yeah, it's a good bloke, Dan. Lovely

1:05:57

to speak to him and hear from the coach's perspective.

1:06:00

what they go through. And that brings us on to

1:06:02

the good, the bad and

1:06:04

the ugly Andrew. The good. There's loads of

1:06:06

good. I know. Yeah, but it's good. Yeah.

1:06:08

We speak differently. You're posh on that. In

1:06:10

association with? More than brawl.com. That's

1:06:12

it for men that more, women that brawl, dark honey,

1:06:15

tobacco. You know the script. Join the community. More than

1:06:17

brawl.com. There we go. Right. Let's start off with the

1:06:19

good. Montpellier get a mention of the good this week.

1:06:21

They won the bottom of the table clash at

1:06:24

Oyanax in the top 14 and

1:06:26

are now miraculously in touch

1:06:28

with the top six. That league is looking like it's

1:06:30

going to have an exciting finish to the season. What

1:06:33

else? We're going to go over to the

1:06:35

URC. All four Irish provinces won in the

1:06:38

URC this weekend, which bodes well

1:06:40

for their national team as well. It's a good stuff

1:06:42

from them. Georgia, get a shout out in the

1:06:44

good. They hammered Romania 43 points

1:06:46

to five to head to the finals

1:06:49

of the rugby Europe championship. Cockvilly, Richard

1:06:51

Cockvilly is going well, eh Jim? Under

1:06:54

the radar. Cockvilly. Cockvilly. Cockvilly. Cockvilly.

1:06:57

His kids babysit my kids. There you

1:06:59

go. There you go. Good stuff. Over

1:07:01

to Super Rugby and the Waratards

1:07:03

get a massive shout out in the good this week.

1:07:05

They beat the Crusaders 37 points

1:07:07

to 24. That's a big shout out

1:07:09

to all our Aussie friends from Sydney. Back

1:07:12

into the URC, the Bulls get a mention of the

1:07:14

good this week. They sold out

1:07:16

Loftus Versveldt for their 40 points

1:07:19

to 22 victory over the Stormers. So big shout out

1:07:21

to the Bulls. Rhys Patchel gets

1:07:23

a shout out in the good this week for

1:07:25

who is ridiculous offload playing

1:07:27

for the Highlanders and sticking

1:07:29

with the Highlanders. Hoskins Sottoutou

1:07:31

gets a shout out for his hat trick.

1:07:33

What a name that is. Hoskins Sottoutou. What

1:07:35

a name. You're called Jim Hamilton. I'm called

1:07:38

Andy Goode and he's called Hoskins Sottoutou. What

1:07:40

a name. Yeah, we've got Rob as well.

1:07:42

Very good English names. Anyway, big shout out

1:07:44

to Hoskins Sottoutou for his hat trick. But

1:07:46

the good this week goes to one place

1:07:49

and that is France and their

1:07:51

7th team and Anton DuPont. Everything

1:07:54

he touches turns to gold. There's

1:07:57

nothing he can't do that fella. They won the

1:08:00

LA 7's title and it

1:08:02

was their first win in 19 years

1:08:04

on the 7th circuit. Anton DuPont do

1:08:07

what he wants and go and win things. So

1:08:09

big shout out to Anton DuPont and the French

1:08:11

7's team. That's why they win the good this

1:08:13

week. Yeah, best player. The

1:08:15

bad few bits are bad. We're going to start off

1:08:18

with Bongi Umbanambi and how

1:08:20

he spoke to referee Amy Barrett Theron.

1:08:22

He's very rude, I thought, and condescending.

1:08:24

And he has apologized on social media,

1:08:26

but not a good look for Bongi

1:08:29

and his captaincy. What else

1:08:31

was bad? The Dregs, the Dragons.

1:08:33

They get a mention in the bad again this week.

1:08:36

They took 49 points to Ulster

1:08:39

in Belfast, but they went out, Jim, because they kept it under 50,

1:08:41

right? The Scouts get a mention as well.

1:08:43

The Scarlett's, they lost 26 points to 10 at Connacht. They're

1:08:47

not good. And sticking with bad teams

1:08:49

and bad form, the Sharks get

1:08:52

a mention in the bad as well. They lost

1:08:54

40 points to 10 at the Lions. So pretty

1:08:56

bad stuff from them. What

1:08:58

else was bad? No TMO in the

1:09:00

Rugby Europe Championship semi-final between Portugal and

1:09:02

Spain. Portugal won the game 33 points

1:09:05

to 30, but there was a

1:09:07

try that should never have been. His foot was on the

1:09:09

line in the in-goal area for the try. So that's

1:09:12

not good. Leon get a mention in the bad as

1:09:14

well. They lost 40 points to 10 at Bayon in

1:09:16

the top 14. But the bad this

1:09:18

week, and I don't think I've ever said this, so

1:09:21

it's a new one. The bad this

1:09:23

week goes to the Crusaders,

1:09:25

Jim. What happened? No razor. Over in

1:09:27

Super Rugby. They lost to the Waratahs

1:09:29

37-24. But

1:09:32

more importantly, that's now played to lost

1:09:34

to. And it's the first time that

1:09:37

they've lost the opening two games of

1:09:39

Super Rugby in 10 years.

1:09:41

So the Crusaders, Andy

1:09:43

Rowe, your mob, you're going to get the

1:09:45

bad this week. And then the ugly. Only one bit of ugly

1:09:48

to come out of Rugby this weekend. And it's

1:09:50

over in Super Rugby. And it's the Jordy Barrett

1:09:52

who was playing his hundredth game for

1:09:55

the Hurricanes this weekend shoulder

1:09:57

to the head of Jordan Pataa.

1:10:00

clear red card, stone wall red, you got a

1:10:02

yellow, it went to the bunker, it was upgraded

1:10:04

to a red, but shoulder the head upright, Jordy

1:10:06

Barrett, not good, that's why you win the ugly

1:10:08

this week. Thank you Andrew. Thank

1:10:11

you James. Yeah also producer Rob.

1:10:13

Definitely, well done Rob. Thanks

1:10:15

to everyone else as well for listening, don't forget to

1:10:17

check us out on YouTube as well and

1:10:20

make sure you've subscribed on Spotify.

1:10:22

Nada boy on Spotify, rupee pod.

1:10:24

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