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This This episode is brought to

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shopify.com/ system. All

0:36

right, joining me today is the

0:38

author of the new book for love of country.

0:41

Leave the Democrat Party behind.

0:44

Tulsi Gabbard. I thought you would like

0:46

this book for me. I thought you

0:48

would like that title, Dave. Oh my

0:50

God. I have never seen a

0:52

title more appropriate or basically the

0:55

Dave Rubin story. So you survived.

0:57

You survived. You left the Democrat Party.

1:00

You and I have had such great

1:02

conversations over the years. I feel like

1:04

you, you know, we have been through,

1:06

you made the decision before I did,

1:09

but it's been great to have

1:11

our conversation, our friendship throughout

1:13

this very tumultuous period politically

1:15

for the country. And

1:19

so, yes, I

1:21

made the decision to leave the Democratic Party and

1:24

that happened in October of 2022, just

1:27

before that important midterm election. I

1:30

knew, I knew what kind of

1:33

wrath and criticism and name calling I would

1:35

get from many of my

1:37

former colleagues, Democrats. You were getting plenty

1:39

of that before then. That's why I was like,

1:41

okay, I know what to expect because they've been doing this for years

1:44

because I wasn't at

1:46

all a toe of the party line kind of

1:48

girl in Congress. But

1:51

what I didn't expect, literally

1:53

within hours of posting the video, telling

1:55

people, here's why I'm leaving the Democratic

1:57

Party and how the Democratic Party left

1:59

me. me, I got an

2:01

outpouring of messages from everyday

2:03

Americans across the country. Some

2:06

people who I knew outside of politics, but

2:08

most people I've never heard from, never met

2:11

before, saying thank you

2:13

for expressing things

2:15

that I've been feeling for so long.

2:17

Thank you for having

2:20

the strength to stand up to these

2:22

guys because I've been too afraid to

2:24

speak out. I've been afraid of losing

2:26

my job, afraid of losing friends or

2:29

family members, and just things

2:31

like that that encouraged me to actually put

2:33

down on paper and write in more depth.

2:36

Not only the reasons why I left,

2:38

but the experiences that I had that

2:40

really led me to making that decision.

2:42

Does it seem very obvious to you now?

2:46

When I look back on my journey now, I'm like,

2:48

oh, it was clearly going to end up here. Yeah.

2:51

Yeah, so you feel similar. Yeah. It

2:53

was people tell me, well, I

2:56

saw you on the stage in the 2020 Democratic debate, and

2:58

I was like, why is she a Democrat? One

3:01

of these is not like the other. And

3:04

questioning, well, what took you so long? For

3:08

me, it was going through ... I served

3:10

for eight years in Congress. I was vice

3:12

chair of the Democratic National Committee. I

3:14

ran for president in the Democratic primary,

3:16

and in each of those roles and

3:18

positions, I held

3:20

out hope and put my effort and energy

3:23

toward actually trying to be

3:25

constructive and bringing positive

3:27

change to the Democratic Party and trying

3:29

to get it to the place where it

3:31

was when I joined over 20

3:34

years ago as a 21-year-old in Hawaii

3:36

to be a party of the little

3:39

guy, to be the big open-tent

3:41

free speech party. The party that

3:43

at that time had the ACLU standing

3:45

up for free speech and standing up

3:47

for civil liberties and

3:49

bringing people from all different backgrounds together.

3:53

And it was different

3:56

things over time, but especially in that

3:58

presidential primary. that

4:00

it became tremendously

4:03

clear to me that the Democrat elite

4:05

had zero interest in being the

4:08

traditional liberal party of JFK, of

4:10

being a party that is actually

4:12

trying to live out the dream

4:14

of Martin Luther King. Not only

4:17

did they have no interest, they

4:19

actively attacked and smeared

4:22

and tried to silence me for

4:24

having the audacity to do

4:26

that. And did it in the most obnoxious

4:28

possible ways. Hillary Clinton, while you

4:31

were the last one running against

4:33

Biden, basically everyone else cut their deals to

4:35

either get in the administration or whatever it

4:38

was to drop out before Super Tuesday, Hillary

4:40

Clinton, I think went on the view, if

4:42

I'm not mistaken, and said basically you're a

4:44

Putin stooge. Or she didn't even say your

4:46

name, right? No. She said the other

4:48

one. Yeah, it was actually a David

4:51

Axelrod podcast. Okay, David

4:53

Axelrod podcast. She probably did it

4:55

on the view as well. But

4:58

I think the first time she talked

5:00

about me publicly was

5:02

on David Axelrod's podcast. And

5:06

without saying my name, essentially

5:08

said the Russians were grooming me and so on

5:10

and so on, saying that I'm a traitor to

5:12

my country. And there

5:16

were a couple of news outlets that reached

5:18

out to her after or her campaign spokes

5:20

or her spokesperson saying, you know, well, you

5:22

didn't mention a name. Who are you talking

5:24

about? Are you talking about

5:26

Tulsi Gabbard? And there was some

5:29

snarky, stupid reply from her spokesperson

5:31

that essentially confirmed

5:33

it. And,

5:36

you know, to have former

5:39

Secretary of State, you know, former Democratic

5:41

nominee, former US

5:43

Senator, former First Lady, take

5:46

the time and space out of her

5:49

life and schedule to make that point

5:51

was a very clear signal to me.

5:55

And even more powerfully to anyone

5:57

else who David Axelrod,

5:59

who's a or dared to support me,

6:01

or dared to be like, yeah,

6:03

yeah, more of us should stand

6:06

up against her neocon,

6:08

neoliberal war mongering. More of

6:10

us should stand up against

6:12

the corrupt machine of politics

6:14

in Washington that cares more

6:16

for power than they do for the people. Anyone

6:20

who challenges so directly,

6:23

the Democrat elite machine of which Hillary

6:25

Clinton is the leader of, here's

6:29

what will happen to you. We will come after you and

6:31

we will try to destroy you. Right, and what was

6:34

interesting about it to me was that it was purely

6:36

punitive because he was going to be the nominee at

6:38

that point. I mean, you were still in, but they

6:40

had already done the thing. So she was clearly going

6:42

after you to say, oh, if

6:45

you leave us, the example

6:47

we're gonna make of Tulsi is what we'll do to

6:49

all of you guys. So if you

6:51

don't think that you're having left

6:53

the party, or if

6:55

you see that as inevitable, do you think the

6:57

destruction or what has now happened to the Democrat

6:59

party was inevitable? Was there a moment that they

7:02

could have stopped this had

7:04

Biden maybe picked you instead of

7:06

Kamala? Could that have done

7:08

something to shift whether you would have accepted

7:11

or not? But was there any

7:13

correction that could have happened before

7:15

they went off the deep end? Sure, I

7:17

think there were certainly a number of moments

7:19

and kind of forks in the road where

7:21

they could have chosen a different path to,

7:24

for example, find

7:27

ways to bring the country together the

7:31

speech that President Biden gave in Philadelphia

7:35

at Independence Hall, the

7:38

moment was there, the setting was there, the

7:40

opportunity was there for him to I think

7:42

he was maybe a year after

7:44

he was sworn in, the opportunity was there to

7:46

deliver a very unifying speech. This was in the

7:49

lead up to the 2022 election. And

7:53

there was a small little sliver

7:55

of hope that like, okay, if

7:57

for no other reason than for... purely

8:00

political tactics in

8:02

winning more seats in

8:04

Congress in this 2022 election, maybe

8:07

this will be a moment he will actually

8:09

try to bring the country together. And

8:11

I talk about this in my book. He did

8:13

the exact opposite. It might be the most divisive

8:16

speech I've ever heard in my life. I completely agree.

8:18

And that is probably one of the biggest,

8:20

but one of many of those lost

8:23

opportunities. And this was why when

8:25

I withdrew from the presidential campaign,

8:28

why I made that decision

8:30

to endorse Joe Biden in

8:33

the hopes that if he

8:35

were elected president, at

8:37

a minimum I could be in a place and

8:39

have an opportunity to provide some kind of influence

8:41

to him. Cause I've known him for a long

8:43

time, that I could provide some kind

8:45

of influence to him to listen to his better angels,

8:48

to be a more common sense minded

8:51

leader, to be the uncle Joe

8:53

that was able to bring people

8:55

together around different issues who could

8:57

actually unite a heavily

9:00

divided country. And unfortunately at

9:03

every step along the way from

9:05

his inauguration going

9:07

forward, he chose the path of darkness

9:10

and divisiveness and hate. What

9:13

has happened to the liberals? Because

9:15

I know that even you and I have, I would

9:17

say probably some differences maybe on the margins a little

9:19

bit. I think you've shifted on some things over the

9:21

years. I've shifted on some things. It doesn't even matter.

9:23

I mean, you can get into them, but it really

9:25

doesn't even matter. I think what both of us roughly

9:28

represent is what most Americans represent. And

9:30

that used to be the liberal position.

9:33

And then some people maybe had more

9:35

conservative religious views, something like that. But

9:38

the liberals have basically been just annihilated

9:40

at this point. I think it's very

9:42

dangerous for America actually. It

9:45

is. The real liberals obviously I'm talking

9:47

about. The traditional liberals of

9:49

the great leaders from

9:51

our country's past. What

9:54

do you think happened? I mean, was it inevitable in

9:56

a weird way? I don't believe

9:58

that it was inevitable. I try to be

10:00

optimistic and I try to be hopeful. And

10:03

what I saw over the years

10:05

that I served in Congress was

10:09

increasingly the Democratic

10:11

Party was catering towards the

10:13

most extreme loud elements

10:16

within their base of

10:18

support. I think it's best embodied

10:21

today by the squad and

10:25

made decisions out of fear, fear

10:27

of retaliation from that constituency,

10:31

fear of loss of

10:33

power, ultimately, is kind of the

10:36

major motivating factor in the decisions that

10:38

they're making because the

10:40

positions they're taking, whether you talk

10:43

about the trans ideology, whether you

10:45

talk about defund the police and

10:47

how crime and an undermining of

10:49

the rule of law is taking

10:52

over our country, you see what's

10:54

happening on these college campuses. You

10:56

look at our open borders. I was at

10:58

the border recently in California and it's

11:02

a well-oiled cartel run machine where I

11:04

stood there and I watched hundreds of

11:06

people come across the border. They

11:08

knew exactly where to go. Border Patrol

11:10

would go and run their pickups, essentially serving as

11:12

a glorified Uber driver. They go and get processed,

11:15

they get a piece of paper and they're on

11:17

a plane anywhere they wanna go in the country in

11:19

about 24 hours. Yeah, well. Border

11:23

Patrol is, their leadership is

11:25

running a very tight

11:27

ship. Any one of them who

11:30

speaks out will be retaliated

11:32

against without

11:34

a doubt and yet

11:36

they are in a position where they

11:39

cannot even do their job because of

11:41

the Biden-Harris administration

11:45

and the Democrat elite. So you look at

11:47

these different examples, any common sense minded American

11:49

can say like, well, this is crazy.

11:53

If you're a political operative, you look at

11:55

this, you're like, well, these are not common

11:58

sense positions. They make no sense. from

12:00

anyone's standpoint, regardless of party politics,

12:03

and yet this is what they're

12:05

doing. This This

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12:15

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12:20

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12:22

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12:25

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12:27

shopify.com/system, all lowercase,

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to take your retail business to the next level

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today. today. That's shopify.com That's

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shopify.com/ system. So you believe

12:36

it to be more calculated than just incompetence, right? That

12:38

seems to be the new debate that everyone's having, you

12:40

know, or maybe they just don't they kind of don't

12:42

know what they're doing with crime and drugs and border

12:44

and yeah, I don't believe it either. No, it

12:47

is, it goes far beyond, incompetence, so

12:49

then what can see exactly, you might be able

12:52

to say, oh well gosh, they made a mistake here or

12:54

there that could be attributed to

12:56

incompetence, but we have seen now

12:59

consistently throughout his entire administration over

13:02

these last three and a half

13:04

years, consistently pushing policies that undermine

13:06

our freedom, that make our country

13:09

less safe and less secure and

13:11

that that is very

13:13

quickly unraveling and destroying the

13:15

foundational fundamental elements of our

13:18

country and what it means to be

13:20

an American here. That has to be

13:22

intentional. So I'm with you on

13:24

that, but then the question is, so then

13:26

what is their intent? Their

13:28

end state is what we are already

13:30

seeing, which is a more

13:32

and more tyrannical authoritarian government where they

13:34

can hold on to power for as

13:36

long as they possibly can without concern

13:39

for the cost on our freedom and

13:41

our democracy and the American people. That's

13:43

what it boils down to. Do

13:45

you think Biden knew that when he

13:47

was going in? Because the idea was,

13:49

you said you knew Uncle Joe, the

13:52

idea that they were at least selling with us

13:55

was, oh don't worry, he's going to be the

13:57

bulwark against the crazies because he's been around forever.

14:00

he's kind of an old school Democrat. Now

14:03

it seems very clear to me that the

14:05

guy's not there. So do you think

14:07

he even realizes fully what's going on

14:09

here now? It may not

14:11

matter right now. Yeah, ultimately

14:13

the consequences are what matters

14:15

most. I don't,

14:18

look, I'm

14:20

not there in the White House, but

14:23

I refuse to absolve him of responsibility.

14:26

He is the president of the United States. He

14:28

ran for president and he has made the decision

14:30

to run for president again. And

14:32

at different times, even

14:35

in impromptu moments, he

14:38

comes out and makes statements

14:40

about his position. So while

14:44

some of those statements don't make any sense at

14:46

times, I will not absolve

14:48

him of his responsibility because

14:51

ultimately it is on him. And if

14:53

he is ceding his authority to those

14:55

around him to come up with

14:58

policies and hand him note cards that tell him

15:00

what to say and what to do and where

15:02

to go and this and that, that's still on

15:05

Joe Biden. And we as voters

15:07

have to hold him responsible for

15:09

that. How much

15:11

of this do you blame the Republicans for? That

15:13

the Republicans kind of suck. I mean, that's kind

15:16

of true. They're better than the Democrats

15:18

for the most part and certainly in certain places

15:20

like Florida, they're way better. But

15:23

clearly there's a problem there. I mean, you campaigned with

15:25

a lot of Republicans, a lot of people that I

15:27

was pulling for too, obviously the midterms were not good.

15:30

I don't think that's necessarily because the Democrats

15:33

are so great. I think it's because a lot of

15:35

the Republicans are not. I mean, just look at

15:37

Ukraine funding now. Yeah. You

15:40

know, the message that I'm carrying as I'm traveling

15:42

across the country and talking to folks and sharing

15:45

my story and my journey and the truth about

15:47

what's happening to our country, the truth about what

15:50

the Democrat elite are doing is

15:53

one of, that

15:56

points out the opportunity and the

15:58

responsibility that we have. as voters

16:01

to hold leaders accountable

16:03

across both political parties. If

16:06

we really want to solve the problems that we

16:08

have, we have to make sure

16:10

that we are electing leaders who are committed to

16:12

the Constitution, committed to freedom, who

16:14

are leading with the servant's heart, and actually

16:16

acting within the best interests of the American

16:18

people and our country,

16:21

period. And

16:23

so, you know, when you have both

16:25

Democrats and Republicans coming together

16:27

to undermine our

16:29

civil liberties and allow

16:31

increased authorities in the executive

16:34

branch to conduct warrantless surveillance

16:36

on Americans, we can't

16:38

allow that to stand. When

16:40

you have people, you mentioned the Ukraine funding,

16:44

and the chunk of money

16:46

that was designated for border

16:48

security in Ukraine, and

16:50

yet we

16:53

are facing our own national security crisis

16:56

on our own southern border.

17:01

Never mind the fact that they're still not accounting for

17:03

all the money that we are sending to

17:06

Ukraine. Never mind the fact that

17:08

we are years into this now and not

17:10

a single person can clearly... There's no cohesive

17:12

vision of what quote-unquote winning looks like.

17:15

The last headline I saw before that... Who's got

17:17

nukes? At the end, he's got nukes no matter

17:19

how many weapons you give you. He has far

17:21

more people. He has a

17:24

military industrial complex, the ability to

17:26

reconstitute their tanks and their weapons

17:29

system, far more than Ukraine

17:31

will ever have. And

17:34

most importantly, he is a

17:36

nuclear armed power with the policies

17:38

in place. That

17:40

is, it's no longer a no first strike

17:42

policy, which they had in the past. It

17:45

is if they are faced with

17:47

an existential threat, he has the

17:49

authorities from his legislative body to

17:52

use nuclear weapons. And it's

17:54

an intentionally vague statement. What does an existential threat

17:56

look like? It could come in many different forms.

18:00

say that's not sucking up to Putin to say that

18:02

if you felt the fact. Yeah, it is just a fact.

18:05

And our leaders have a

18:07

responsibility to understand

18:09

how he's thinking, to

18:11

understand the conditions that

18:14

he is operating from. This is like

18:16

the basic Sun Tzu art of war. You

18:18

have to know your opposition

18:22

in order to predict, okay, well, here's

18:24

what we think they'll do next in

18:26

order to act within your own interests. There

18:30

are so many levels of failures in this.

18:32

I think that the headline I saw right

18:34

before that Congress took that vote had

18:37

to do with unless, and

18:39

we've been hearing this over and over,

18:41

unless Congress acts, Ukraine

18:44

will lose. Okay,

18:46

so now the bar for success is

18:48

you're just going to prevent them from

18:51

losing, which means there will continue to

18:53

be this war of attrition, more Ukrainians

18:55

will die. How is that even, you claim

18:57

to care about the Ukrainian people and their lives

18:59

and their suffering. How is that helping

19:02

them? It's not a war of attrition does not

19:04

help the Ukrainian people. I have friends there, I've

19:06

been there many times and they

19:08

are terrified that their husbands will be

19:10

forcibly conscripted into fighting what is a

19:16

losing war. Yeah, we have an office, locals have

19:18

an office in Ukraine and we helped some people

19:20

get out. They got to Macedonia. We have two

19:22

guys that are now here with green cards but

19:25

it's like the whole country has basically been destroyed.

19:27

So can you talk a little bit about when

19:30

a bill gets to Congress, just give me like a little, it's

19:32

probably not the most fun thing for you to do, but like

19:34

a little, a bill shows up. It's

19:36

a lot thicker than the

19:38

two pieces of paper here. It shows up, you have

19:41

the media telling you, you better sign this damn thing

19:43

or we're going to war or the border is going

19:45

to be overrun or children won't have water or whatever

19:47

the issue of the day is. Just

19:50

talk to me about the process of how you

19:52

had to either go through the deal or have

19:54

someone go through it and then just all the

19:56

outside pressures, the lobbyists like should be the one

19:58

on one on that because I think people saw

20:00

this thing. and were just like, this is just

20:02

too much. McConnell, 60 million. Exactly. You see what

20:04

he said? 60 million, and they asked him, will

20:06

that be enough? He said, I hope. It's like,

20:09

60 billion. Sorry, 60 billion. 60 billion. 60

20:11

billion. Correct. Just a

20:13

closing thought on that piece. It's important

20:15

to point out a couple of things. Number

20:18

one is, if people in

20:20

Congress, if people in Washington were truly

20:22

compassionate and caring for the people of

20:24

Ukraine, they would have

20:27

done everything possible to broker

20:29

a deal early on

20:31

in this war to prevent

20:33

more unnecessary loss of life.

20:37

Pragmatic leaders recognize, you and I

20:39

saw this from the very beginning,

20:41

that this can only end with

20:43

a brokered treaty where both

20:46

parties walk away not entirely happy,

20:48

but a longstanding war would

20:50

be prevented. We

20:54

know the Biden administration blocked

20:56

multiple attempts at a brokered

20:58

deal that leaders of other countries tried to

21:00

pursue. And

21:02

the second piece is, again, and

21:06

I'll connect this with the question you're asking,

21:10

our own leaders from both parties

21:12

failed to ask and answer the

21:14

most simple questions, first

21:16

of which is, how does this help

21:18

ensure our national security interests? How

21:21

does this help the American people? And

21:24

if it does, what is the

21:26

objective we are trying to accomplish? They've never

21:28

been able to truly address that in a

21:31

way that actually made sense. So

21:34

going to the legislative process,

21:38

it remains unfortunately very broken. A

21:40

lot of people don't realize that,

21:43

for me as a member of Congress, I'd

21:45

introduce legislation, whether or not it ever

21:47

saw the light of day, either in committee

21:49

or on the House floor for a vote,

21:51

was essentially up to my own

21:54

party leadership and the leadership of the party

21:56

in power. So when I was there, the

21:59

power switched back and forth. Or the couple of times.

22:02

It's not. It's not a very.

22:05

Democratized process where you've got four

22:07

hundred thirty five representatives of all

22:09

these different constituencies. Voters who say

22:11

i want you to go. And

22:13

represent me in Washington Like okay. cool.

22:16

Here's the ideas I have and how

22:18

we solve the problems of the day.

22:20

But ah, unless your. Ear in the

22:22

good graces of the party in power.

22:24

those good ideas may never actually see

22:26

the light of day so the power

22:28

ups is is kind of strangle held

22:30

the into have very few number of

22:32

people's hands. So is that why so

22:34

many people seemingly vote for things that

22:36

they don't seem to actually be for?

22:38

So for example we see this Ukraine

22:41

boat or hundred some odd republicans voted

22:43

on and I suspect at least with

22:45

the Republicans have you went back to

22:47

their districts. and as about this and

22:49

I would give ninety percent of the.

22:51

District's would have said no or at

22:53

least more questions or to me some

22:55

guarantees. or see her seats or something.

22:58

Thirty and a voted for. There's a

23:00

small waving the flag exactly which says

23:02

just. Mind

23:04

blowing very early When you look

23:07

at that symbolism, your. And

23:10

heartbreaking really when you look at

23:12

what what is happening to our

23:14

country here right now and so

23:16

many levels. When

23:21

they lump, they intentionally lump.

23:24

Many descent. Ah,

23:26

pieces of legislation. Or issues

23:28

together in one bill. To.

23:30

Try to force. People's. Hands

23:32

are in casting a vote for something where

23:34

they may like one thing, but they don't

23:36

like five things that the one thing is

23:39

really important to them. And that's exactly what.

23:41

They did with this legislation. It's It's quite

23:43

deceptive when you look at it because it

23:45

it puts every member of Congress and a

23:47

tough spot to have to to weigh the

23:50

pros and cons. How much do I care

23:52

about this one thing and how bad is

23:54

the bad? Parts of it I

23:56

it it is my view that

23:58

Congress should stay. to, hey,

24:01

if you want funding for Ukraine, put

24:03

that on the floor alone. If you

24:05

want funding for Israel, put that on

24:08

the floor alone. If you want to

24:10

extend the FISA surveillance

24:12

authorities, put that on the floor on

24:15

its own. And that's basically what everyone

24:17

wants, or most citizens want if they're a

24:19

citizen. That is what the American people

24:21

want. So that if I'm a member of

24:23

Congress and I'm voting on something, I can go back

24:25

into a town hall in my district and

24:28

they can say, hey, how come you voted this

24:30

way? And it's not like, well, it was a

24:32

6,000 page bill and it had 400

24:34

different provisions and this was the provision

24:37

that I supported or here's the provision

24:39

that I oppose. It's just, it

24:41

gives people political cover.

24:43

And this is why they do it

24:46

from a partisan standpoint. It gives people political cover

24:48

for when they do go

24:50

back to not actually have to take

24:52

responsibility and be held accountable. And it

24:54

gives the party leadership more

24:57

leverage and power. And this

24:59

is where the other major problem

25:01

is. And I've seen it happen

25:04

in real time. The Democratic

25:06

Party never helped me in a single one

25:08

of my elections, whether for state house city

25:10

council, Congress, or running for president. Even before

25:13

you were back, right? Never. Never. Which,

25:16

you know, I had a harder road to

25:18

walk, but in hindsight, every single time I

25:20

was grateful for it, because there wasn't a

25:22

single person in that party who

25:24

could come and say, hey, I

25:26

had your back on this. Or, you know,

25:28

we have a $5 million check set aside for

25:30

you. You better vote this way or else. It

25:33

never happened to me once. I

25:36

think they also knew that I wouldn't respond well if they

25:38

did try to do some arm twisting, but I've seen it

25:40

happen with colleagues of former

25:42

colleagues of mine who

25:44

are in, you know, those purple swing

25:46

districts who really needed that help and

25:48

who often took tough votes because

25:52

if they went along with the party line, it would be

25:54

a radical, it would be viewed

25:57

as a radical vote by their more

25:59

moderate constituents. And

26:01

so the party, you know,

26:04

you can write an unlimited amount of

26:06

money, a check to the

26:08

party, to either party, whereas

26:10

individual members are limited to whatever

26:12

the limit is. And

26:15

so it gives an inordinate

26:17

amount of power to the party leadership

26:19

to go and use that as leverage

26:22

to twist people's arms to vote against

26:24

their conscience or even

26:26

to vote against their district to

26:28

benefit the parties, the national parties

26:30

power. How worried

26:32

are you that none

26:35

of it really works anymore? And

26:37

that we're just in sort of

26:39

like a zombified stage before, I

26:42

don't want to say the end because I

26:44

don't think it's the end, but before something

26:46

very different. I was in DC during the

26:48

border, the bipartisan border deal, and I interviewed

26:51

like, I couldn't get one Democrat to

26:53

sit down with me. I probably cried, but I interviewed

26:55

plenty of senators and Republicans. Let's just pause on that

26:57

for a moment. I'm not

26:59

noted as the most hardcore interviewer either. I'm supposed to, they

27:01

always tell me I'm a softball interviewer, so you'd think they

27:03

might want to sit down with me. But

27:05

the fact that not a single one

27:07

of them was willing to make their

27:10

case to you, that says

27:13

a lot, and it says a lot about the

27:16

lack of courage, a lack

27:18

of confidence in their position, a

27:20

lack of transparency and fear, frankly,

27:23

that they may be exposed, that you may

27:25

ask a question that exposes their position for

27:28

the weakness

27:32

that it is and how their position

27:34

is not actually the position for America.

27:36

And ironically, or I guess obviously, I would have treated

27:39

them with the exact same respect I treat anyone else

27:41

that I'm sitting across from. Like

27:43

you have with me for years, even when I was

27:45

a Democrat in Congress. I was like, oh, that's crazy,

27:47

but we brought you over. It's

27:49

okay. Maybe that's what they're afraid of. Maybe

27:52

that's what they're afraid of. No, honestly. They're afraid

27:54

of being confronted with the truth that they

27:56

can't deny. And

27:59

then they got it like. Well, what do I do

28:01

now? People used to say I was the

28:03

gateway drug to Jordan Peterson, but I might be the gateway

28:05

drug to policy. Yeah But

28:08

the reason I mentioned that is because the sense

28:10

I got having sat down with Ted Cruz and

28:13

Rand Paul and Marsha Blackburn And Jim Jordan like

28:15

everybody there Was that everyone

28:17

but they wouldn't say it but everyone's feeling was

28:19

this does not work like it was just like

28:21

a lot of words Yeah, well not just the

28:23

bill like the whole thing. It doesn't kind of

28:25

work So we're just saying a lot of words.

28:27

Yeah, and we're voting on a bunch of different

28:29

things but everyone was just like Like

28:32

it doesn't really work anymore And and

28:35

I am worried about that that the

28:37

machine itself is just no longer working

28:39

and the Democrats are basically stripping the

28:41

copper wire While they can

28:43

yeah something to that. Yeah, I

28:46

I don't think it's irretrievably broken There

28:49

are serious Structural

28:51

problems that need to be addressed

28:56

You know the Democratic Party has

28:58

brought itself to the point where

29:00

it's just like total compliance You

29:03

you must you must go along You

29:07

must obey whatever the decision or the

29:09

narrative is of the day or face

29:11

the consequences Which is not

29:13

the history of the Democratic Party? I remember people

29:15

talking about and throwing their hands up saying

29:17

oh my gosh, the Democratic Party is so

29:20

messy You guys always disagree with each other.

29:22

You can never speak with one cohesive message. Well

29:24

now it's the complete opposite It

29:27

is toe the line or else and and it

29:29

is Being done in

29:31

concert with the big mainstream propaganda

29:33

media and with big tech

29:36

They are all you know moving like

29:38

zombies as you said in one direction.

29:40

That is the wrong direction for the

29:42

country You know and the

29:44

Republican Party I will say it

29:48

It is encouraging to see that

29:50

there are disagreements that there is

29:53

some kind of space for dissent

29:55

and debate and argument and you

29:59

know even as Murphy has some of

30:01

these legislative battles are I think

30:03

it's a good thing that that

30:05

opportunity still exists. That means. It's

30:08

not completely irretrievably broken. Know

30:10

and. That means there is opportunity

30:12

and again I is. This is as.

30:16

Frustrated. As we are at the process it

30:18

or is it really that the responsibly comes back to

30:20

us as owners. Really and

30:22

know and people people are

30:24

are understandably. Ah,

30:27

disheartened and sometimes feel hopeless

30:29

since his. Will my vote actually really

30:31

count? There's problems at. The election system and

30:33

there's problems. With you know what? what the

30:35

by the administration is doing now is trying

30:37

to limit who we're I actually love even

30:39

vote for. And weaponizing the Department of

30:41

Justice and Law Enforcement the Federal

30:44

and see all of these things

30:46

are happening that impacted and and

30:48

directly undermine our democracy. But ultimately

30:50

what do we do? How do

30:52

we fix It comes down to

30:54

us taking that personal responsibility and

30:56

ownership, not being blind followers to

30:58

any one. And and

31:00

being informed as we go

31:02

and casts are vote ah.

31:05

Putting. Putting that commitment.

31:07

To the Constitution, the American people at the

31:09

forefront. So as you're going around with this

31:11

book again the subtitle: leave the Democrat Party

31:13

behind. It's pretty clear data on what the

31:15

messaging is on this thing. So the people

31:17

that are coming up to you that probably

31:19

feel the same way or the telling you

31:21

they are going to vote republican for the

31:23

first time know or they just saying they're

31:26

not going to vote on Hussein are going

31:28

to vote for Rfk like where where do

31:30

you different all different responses. I.

31:33

I am. Maybe one or two

31:35

people might have said i I just

31:37

might stay home and I that that

31:39

just drives me not via satellite and

31:41

know I always. I always give a

31:43

very compelling argument and to push back.

31:45

Even some friends of mine is server

31:47

the military he to have never voted

31:49

before for as long as they've been

31:51

in the military. Of

31:54

I just saw my care. I respect. You

31:56

know what? For whatever reason you made that

31:58

choice? you have to vote

32:00

in this. Like if you love our country, as I know

32:02

you do, you have to vote

32:04

in this election. So, you

32:07

know, it's different responses. Some people are just saying

32:09

like, I don't know if I can vote for

32:11

Biden this time, you know, maybe

32:13

things will be different. I was like, no, it's

32:15

gonna get worse. If they're allowed to stay in

32:17

power, it will get many, many times worse

32:20

because they will run around the country and say, well,

32:22

the American people have given us a mandate to

32:25

continue the great work we've been doing.

32:27

And so everything we've seen over these

32:29

last few years, it's just gonna ratchet

32:31

up radically and

32:33

quickly. You

32:35

know, people are, many are unsure what

32:37

they wanna do. There are people who

32:39

are drawn to RFK. There are people

32:42

who recognize that even if they

32:44

didn't vote or even consider voting for Trump

32:46

in the past, they recognize that President

32:49

Trump is best positioned at this time

32:51

to be able to number one, stop the

32:54

Democrat elite from destroying our country, which

32:56

is the most important task for us. And

32:59

then, frankly, to

33:02

create some serious disruption

33:05

in the Washington establishment. So

33:08

we'll get to the Trump guy and then some of

33:10

the, I wanna talk about some non-political stuff too, but

33:13

I had RFK in that chair just a couple weeks

33:15

ago. Yeah. And my whole family-

33:17

Was that the first time you met him? It was the

33:19

first time we had met in, no, no, no, I'd interviewed him one other

33:21

time in person and then one time on Skype. And he's just, he's

33:24

just a decent guy. He's a wonderful person. He's

33:26

a wonderful person. The feeling that I have in

33:28

here with you, it's the same thing. It's like,

33:30

this is a decent man and whatever. I

33:33

disagree with him on the affirmative action decision, Supreme

33:35

Court, and we got into it a little bit.

33:37

And he actually kind of, by the end, was,

33:39

I think, coming a little more to my side,

33:41

but it struck me as just irrelevant in a

33:43

weird way. It was like, we both love the

33:45

country. That fact right there. I mean, the fact

33:47

that he's open-minded to listen

33:49

and to be convinced that, hey, maybe

33:51

there's a better solution here that

33:53

you haven't considered is, I think, one

33:55

of his great qualities. And he means it too. And

33:57

by the way, I mean, you mentioned his uncle. Like

34:00

that, he represents what that party used

34:02

to be and is not anymore. But

34:05

I think there was perhaps a moment where there could

34:07

have been a little alliance there. Is that kind

34:10

of off the table in terms of him

34:12

running and all that? Yeah, I really do respect him.

34:15

And like you said, I

34:17

mean, he is a sincere person who really

34:19

does care about our country and who shares

34:22

many, it's not all, but many of the same concerns

34:24

that you and I have about the direction the country

34:26

is headed in. Yeah,

34:30

I mean, he, and this has been made

34:33

public, but he asked

34:35

me if I would be his running mate.

34:37

And I really did give it serious consideration,

34:41

but ultimately respectfully

34:44

declined that offer. Should

34:48

I ask why? I

34:52

don't want to disrespect

34:54

just the privacy of the conversations that I

34:56

had with him. But

34:59

broadly, my goal has been

35:01

and continues to be how

35:04

and where can I best be of service

35:06

and make the maximum

35:09

positive impact that I can for the

35:11

country. And that's

35:14

the basis for my decisions. So

35:17

with that in mind, what do you think the Republicans can

35:19

do better? That would maybe,

35:22

I consider myself a Florida Republican.

35:24

I was very proud to register

35:26

as a Republican here, but

35:28

I know what that means. It's very obvious what it means.

35:30

It means you believe in law and order and you love

35:33

the country and you want secure elections, all the things, like

35:35

it's just done right here. So I can say that. I

35:38

never say I'm a national Republican or something

35:40

like that. But it

35:42

seems to me that the Republicans need to start

35:44

doing some other things right. They have to make,

35:46

the messaging on abortion even is just so messy.

35:49

What is it that you think they could adjust on so

35:52

that someone like you, if not you

35:54

specifically, could say, all right, I'll vote

35:56

Republican going forward. I

36:00

think the most important thing is really

36:05

become that open big tent party

36:08

that is welcoming of people from

36:10

a lot of different backgrounds that

36:15

doesn't name call Democrats

36:19

all of the different labels that I've been

36:21

called over the years and many others that

36:25

that recognizes really what

36:27

our founders envisioned for us which is

36:30

you know just as they had many disagreements

36:32

on a whole bunch of different things and

36:34

had very public arguments about those disagreements ultimately

36:37

they came together around those fundamental principles

36:39

of freedom of the rule of law

36:41

of a limited role of government of

36:44

ensuring the protection of individual

36:46

liberty and so on I

36:50

think there's an opportunity there for the Republican Party

36:52

to go and make that case to people all

36:54

across the country 43% of

36:57

Americans are unaffiliated with either party as

36:59

of a poll of like a week ago Gallup poll

37:01

43% of Americans that means instead of doing

37:07

the usual fear-mongering of

37:11

well don't vote for these guys

37:13

because they're the bad guys there

37:16

there is an opportunity there to to

37:19

rekindle that fire of what it

37:21

means to be an American to

37:23

inspire hope and to

37:26

focus on actual solutions yes there

37:28

are very real problems that that I

37:30

that I go into in my book every

37:32

chapter is dedicated to there's a chapter dedicated

37:35

to how the Democrats are

37:37

racializing everything and using identity

37:39

politics to tear us apart there's a

37:42

chapter dedicated to how they defy the

37:44

existence of objective truth in our

37:47

society and every issue that I bring up

37:49

is not a partisan issue it's something that

37:52

that every one of us as Americans should

37:54

be concerned about and also

37:56

talks about solutions and and

37:58

I think if the Republican Party clearly

38:01

the Democrats are not interested in that. That's

38:03

just a fact. At

38:06

least the Democrat leadership in Washington. There

38:09

is an opportunity for the Republican party to

38:11

speak to those 43% of unaffiliated voters, to

38:15

the disenfranchised Democrats, to

38:18

those who cherish peace and freedom

38:20

and really care for our country

38:22

and recognize like, hey, no,

38:24

we might not agree on some

38:27

issues, a lot of issues or even

38:29

some really important ones. But if we

38:31

can come together and recognize that now

38:33

is the moment, not a moment,

38:36

but the moment where we must

38:39

take a stand together to defend freedom and

38:41

to defend democracy and defend liberty,

38:45

let's stand together and do that. And then,

38:48

and be open to have those dialog and

38:50

conversations where we can learn

38:52

more about each other and why we hold the

38:54

views that we do and find and forge that

38:56

path forward together as a country. So since he's

38:58

the head of the party, I mean, do you

39:01

think Trump can do that effectively? I

39:03

think, yeah, I think there is an opportunity

39:05

to do that in his own way. He obviously has his

39:07

own way of delivering a

39:09

message. But I think some of the

39:12

things that we've already seen of how

39:14

he's making decisions to go and venture

39:16

into Atlanta. Cities

39:19

where a Republican nominee or presumptive

39:21

nominee normally wouldn't put in their

39:23

top 10 list of places to

39:25

go and campaign, reaching out to

39:27

folks who, like

39:29

he did in 2016, where Democrats

39:31

took people for granted and

39:35

showing up says that I care

39:37

and says, come

39:39

and join us. What do you think

39:41

the last step has to be for some of the people

39:44

that can't make that full move that people like you and

39:46

I made? I don't know if you saw

39:48

this week, but Stephen A. Smith from ESPN,

39:50

who's been, he's basically been a liberal

39:52

Democrat his whole life. He's really been

39:54

waking up. And then he said something

39:57

earlier this week about, black

40:00

people starting to vote for Trump, or at least breaking

40:02

away from the Democrat Party. He got

40:04

hit over the head by the left on

40:06

media, and then he apologized. But

40:09

then he sort of made the case again. He

40:11

apologized while also still making the same case. And

40:14

I was watching it going, I've been there, man.

40:16

Like I get it. Do you

40:18

think there's something that those people need just

40:20

in that last little push? You

40:25

know, I think it's just...

40:27

Where do you think it's Trump specifically?

40:31

In that if it was a candidate that would

40:33

say less polarizing than Trump, that was

40:35

one of my arguments for DeSantis was that

40:37

it was like, this guy, you can't say...

40:39

Well, you can say whatever you want, but

40:41

none of the crazy stuff is true about

40:44

him or the language or

40:46

all that. I think

40:49

that given where we are

40:52

in this election season, there

40:54

are no more hypotheticals. And

40:58

so for us

41:00

as voters who are looking

41:02

at this, and for those like Stephen Smith

41:05

and others who are just trying to grapple

41:07

with what's going on, is

41:10

to be very practical and see

41:13

the country and this election for what

41:15

it is. And

41:17

they're very clear contrasts. And

41:20

so it's really a matter of introspection for

41:22

those who are undecided to just say, what

41:24

do I really care about? What

41:26

is best for my family or

41:28

my kids, for our community,

41:31

and for a future in the

41:34

country that we can celebrate and

41:36

be proud of? And

41:39

again, in my view, when

41:41

we kind of take away

41:44

whatever the personal feelings or emotions are

41:46

and just see this

41:48

moment for what it is,

41:50

the choice starts to become

41:52

very clear because we know exactly

41:55

what will happen if President Biden

41:57

and Kamala Harris are allowed to remain in the

41:59

country. in power and it will take this

42:03

flickering of the light of liberty that

42:05

we see happening right now and we

42:08

are facing that light being completely

42:11

exterminated. Have

42:14

you shifted on any issues? I

42:16

think I've definitely asked you this once or twice.

42:19

I'm curious now. Yeah,

42:21

I'm sure there are some, but there are

42:24

some also where... Well, let's say in the

42:26

last year or two as you've sort of

42:28

gone through this. I think that the

42:31

big shift in how I

42:34

view many issues occurred

42:36

over, I would say, these last

42:39

four, five years

42:42

in seeing how... Or even

42:46

longer actually. I would say

42:48

it kind of started when President Trump

42:50

was elected and seeing how the Democrat

42:53

elite responded to that election. And

42:57

this whole Trump derangement syndrome was a very

42:59

real thing. And I was just... I'm thinking

43:01

as we're sitting here to

43:03

some of the conversations that I've had

43:06

and heard in the

43:08

cloakroom off the House floor and how

43:11

certain things that I saw for what

43:14

they were as

43:16

far as decisions that were coming from the Trump White House

43:20

versus how they were being messaged and

43:22

perceived by the Democratic Caucus in the

43:24

House or the National Democratic Party, they

43:26

were two very different things. And

43:30

I wondered how is it that you guys are

43:32

not seeing what's real, what

43:34

I see? You seem to be thinking

43:37

this other thing is happening and whether it's

43:39

for political reasons or they were just

43:41

literally blinded. You

43:45

take that experience and then you look at

43:47

how increasingly

43:49

tyrannical the Biden administration

43:52

has become, the censorship,

43:54

the governance, disinformation board,

43:57

Ministry of Truth, whatever

43:59

I want to call it. There

44:01

are so many different examples on

44:03

every level of how

44:07

more and more brazen they have

44:09

become in taking away our fundamental

44:11

rights and freedoms. And so,

44:13

you know, some of the shifts that I've had on

44:15

different things has come from a shift in

44:18

what's been happening in our country, how

44:21

different people, different entities have

44:23

really exposed themselves for who they

44:25

really are, of seeing how

44:28

over this long period of time that have

44:30

been involved in national democratic politics, how

44:33

even those who claim to be

44:36

proposing certain policies or taking

44:38

actions based out of compassion

44:40

or care, again,

44:44

their true intent is exposed for the

44:47

fact, oh, if you really cared, you

44:49

would recognize and learn from the fact that,

44:51

oh, this proposal actually ended up harming people

44:53

and not hurting them. So we should fix

44:55

that and adjust that. There was no, I

44:58

can't think of a single example, quite

45:00

frankly, where that happened. When really,

45:03

for me, even as a voter, that's what

45:05

I would want from our elected leaders, is,

45:07

okay, you might have a good idea on how to solve

45:09

this, but if as time goes

45:11

on, you've got the proof points that it's

45:13

not actually the best idea after all,

45:16

I want you to shift. I want you

45:18

to find that better solution. And

45:21

I think that's an important thing for

45:23

us to, again, when you ask what

45:25

can the Republican Party do, be

45:29

open-minded, welcome people in

45:31

to have those kinds of conversations, because we will

45:33

get to a better place as a country if we

45:35

do that. So let me ask you one specific one

45:37

that either you'll think is a major favor to you

45:39

or a bit of a headache, which is guns, because

45:41

I talk about you a lot on the show, and

45:44

I guess I'm gonna ask you the VP question,

45:46

obviously, but you

45:48

to me represent what the new

45:50

Republican Party should look like in

45:53

that wider sense. But when I

45:55

mention it, often in the comments, people go, but she's

45:57

not there on the Second Amendment yet, or something to

45:59

that. effect. So has something shifted there

46:01

or is there a reason people are

46:04

saying that or I suppose what would

46:06

be your current position? I

46:09

support the Second Amendment and I talk about this

46:12

in almost every speech that I give. The

46:15

phrase, shall not be infringed is

46:17

quite clear in the Second Amendment. Once

46:20

you get below

46:23

that, okay, so what does that actually mean? Because it

46:26

can mean different things to different people. So

46:29

the really short answer is I have

46:33

always said that I support the

46:35

Second Amendment. I've always supported the Second Amendment. What

46:39

has shifted is two things. Number

46:41

one is recognizing

46:44

that what

46:46

our founders warned against, why they

46:48

passed the Second Amendment after the first

46:51

was ultimately to make

46:54

sure that the American people have

46:57

the ability to be that check on

46:59

the power of a

47:01

tyrannical government to prevent us

47:03

from going to a place where

47:06

the people who first came

47:08

here escaped from. The

47:12

Biden administration has proved

47:14

that point to be

47:16

very relevant and present in

47:19

where we are as a country

47:21

now. And it

47:23

caused me to look at the Second Amendment through

47:25

a very different lens than

47:27

I had previously. And

47:30

therefore then to look at different positions I

47:32

had held. And also,

47:34

whether you're talking about the

47:36

10 capacity, and Hawaii laws are very, very strict.

47:38

They've been strict. I grew up there. So this

47:40

was the norm that I grew up with. But

47:44

looking at the

47:46

bump stock ban, looking at

47:49

the pistol grip ban,

47:51

all of these different things when you actually look

47:53

at them for what they are, even

47:56

though the talking point is, well, hey,

47:58

this could help prevent the next mass

48:00

shooting or, you

48:02

know, this may help save a

48:05

life. The goal really is

48:07

very clear and they've made it clear, which is

48:09

to disarm the American people, period.

48:13

And so, you know, I talk about

48:16

the Second Amendment as

48:19

I talk about the First Amendment because

48:21

of what the

48:23

threat that we are seeing to both that

48:26

is being carried out by the Biden Harris

48:28

administration every single day. My

48:31

husband and I are gun owners. You

48:34

know, there was recent legislation that was being put

48:36

forward in Hawaii that would have made us and

48:38

almost every other law-abiding

48:41

gun owner in Hawaii a felon spoke

48:43

out strongly against that. And

48:46

I, you know, I appreciate, I hear the

48:48

criticism too, and I

48:50

appreciate the opportunity to be able to

48:53

share with people my own

48:55

experience and my own

48:58

views because again, if the

49:00

concerns that people have around the

49:02

Second Amendment who are defenders of

49:05

the Second Amendment are

49:07

real for a reason, what

49:10

I encourage them to do is express

49:14

those concerns and

49:16

invite people who may disagree with you or

49:18

who may have disagreed with you in the

49:20

past to

49:23

learn why you feel the way

49:25

that you do. That's

49:27

the only way to bring about

49:30

the kind of policy change that

49:33

they want to see, that I want to see,

49:35

that you want to see that actually does defend

49:37

our Second Amendment right. Yeah. And

49:39

actually that's why I asked the question because it's one of the ones

49:42

that I have shifted on more. For the

49:44

Second Amendment, but having lived

49:46

here in Florida, seeing law and order, we've

49:48

got guns in this house, especially after COVID

49:50

and living in LA where riots were going

49:52

by my house and everything else. I

49:55

think that is one of the issues that post

49:57

October 7th, that liberals are suddenly

49:59

like. Oh, I should have a gun.

50:01

What does this mean? And oh, I didn't

50:03

realize that the bump stock didn't mean exactly

50:05

what I thought Exactly and the magazines were

50:07

biting doesn't even know what he's talking about

50:10

and semi-automatic clean and that's and that's again

50:12

where you know I've gotten a lot of

50:14

criticism for positions. I've held before but in

50:17

Allow the space for people to learn. Yeah, I

50:19

think that's really the the big takeaway here There's

50:22

one one issue. I'll I'll point to

50:24

a vote that I took in Congress

50:26

that that Did

50:29

not allow I believe it did not allow concealed

50:32

carry reciprocity Across the country

50:34

and when I looked at this I looked at it carefully

50:37

and I thought well, you know Every

50:40

state has different gun laws and

50:42

so from a state's rights standpoint I

50:45

don't know that this bill makes sense because

50:48

it would take one state's

50:50

laws and disrespect another state's

50:52

laws And

50:55

so looking back and also learning more about

50:57

the kinds of people who are impacted by

50:59

this I would not have

51:01

so I voted against that legislation. I would have voted

51:04

for it today Or

51:06

or back then if I had had the information

51:08

you would have for now meaning you would want

51:10

the rest of property I want the reciprocity because

51:13

The Second Amendment is in our Bill of Rights

51:15

It is it is making a very

51:17

clear statement at a federal level that

51:19

this is This is

51:22

one of those issues that supersedes Supersedes

51:26

those states rights and

51:28

and I I heard stories from

51:30

people like domestic violence victims

51:33

Who were fleeing their abuser from

51:35

one state to the next and

51:37

in one state they were legally

51:39

allowed to Have concealed

51:41

carry in the next state. They were not

51:44

and and their own ability to defend themselves

51:49

Would be taken away without that reciprocity. So anyway,

51:51

that's that's one example and there are others But

51:53

these are the kinds of issues that that

51:55

usually don't make kind of the

51:58

top line headlines But

52:01

where there are very real implications.

52:04

You know, it's funny, as you were saying that, I

52:06

was thinking the reason that Democrats win must be because,

52:08

I've thought this before, but it sort of hit me

52:10

really strong there, because you

52:13

care about the Constitution. Republicans

52:15

tend to care about the Constitution. You

52:17

care about the rule of law. You care about the process.

52:19

You care about states' rights and federalism and all of these

52:21

things. And I don't think they care about it at all

52:23

at this point. And because of

52:25

that, it lends a certain energy to

52:28

just the cause. And

52:31

that is extremely dangerous, I would say.

52:34

It is. It is the most

52:36

dangerous thing because our country is built

52:38

on the foundation of the Constitution, Bill

52:40

of Rights. These are our founding documents

52:42

for a reason. And so when

52:44

we have it, and this is ultimately when people say,

52:46

why did you leave the Democratic Party? How

52:49

could I, as an American, as a

52:52

soldier who still wears the uniform in the

52:54

Army Reserve, as someone who has

52:56

served in every level of our country's government, how

52:59

could I, in good conscience,

53:01

associate myself with a political party

53:04

that defies

53:06

the Constitution at

53:08

every step of the way,

53:11

that intentionally is trying to

53:13

destroy our democracy and undermine

53:15

our freedoms all in

53:17

their endless pursuit of

53:19

power? And that's

53:21

the message to me that cuts across party

53:24

lines because I know there are a lot

53:26

of other Democrats in the country who feel,

53:28

as you and I have felt, and

53:30

are walking their path and down

53:32

this road that I hope in

53:34

this election, whether you change parties

53:36

or not, like, that's not really the point here.

53:39

The point is casting your vote, making

53:41

that informed vote for what is in

53:44

the best interest of, yes, our country,

53:46

but of you as an individual American

53:48

citizen in your family. Do you feel

53:50

that the Democrats just have the ace

53:52

card always in their pocket, which is

53:54

abortion, that right before the election they

53:56

can always freak out all of the

53:59

women who about to wake up

54:01

and vote the other way, and they say

54:03

something crazy about abortion, and then Republicans don't

54:05

know how to message properly.

54:08

To me, as someone that's begrudgingly

54:10

pro-choice, I thought that the reversal

54:12

of weight was good because it was ... reverse rate

54:14

was good because it was just kicking it back to

54:16

the state where it belongs. Now it

54:18

seems Republicans are pushing for some sort of

54:20

federal abortion law again, which is the reverse

54:23

... It's the reversal of the

54:25

reversal, which is what I thought they wanted. It's like,

54:27

guys, you're going to do it again, and right before

54:29

that, you know what's going to happen. End

54:31

of October, old ads are going to

54:33

say the Republicans are coming for abortion,

54:35

and then we're going to be there

54:37

again. I think whether

54:39

it's abortion ... Of course,

54:41

the Democrats are signaling that

54:44

that is their plan in this election. In

54:46

previous elections, it has been the border,

54:50

and what about hungry

54:53

children and families who

54:55

are escaping oppression and violence

54:57

and abuse? In

55:01

previous elections, it has been healthcare, when

55:03

you look back to Obamacare. There

55:06

are different issues that they choose to

55:08

focus on as their weapon

55:12

or bludgeon of choice. But this one seems

55:14

like the magic one that they just got

55:16

there. Here's the point is that with every

55:18

one of these ... Yes, absolutely, it is one

55:20

of the go-tos, but what

55:23

they do is tug

55:26

at people's heartstrings and

55:29

create the most extreme picture

55:33

of, if you vote for Republicans,

55:35

this is what's going to happen.

55:37

I think the Gavin Newsom

55:39

Super PAC ad that just came

55:41

out showing women racing down

55:43

the street to try to ... Or

55:45

racing across state lines and getting arrested,

55:48

of course, by a police officer in

55:50

the South. It creates ... It's holding

55:52

a pregnancy test. Exactly. There

55:55

is nothing in that that is

55:57

even remotely have a string rooted

55:59

in it. reality at all,

56:02

but they're very good at exploiting

56:06

people's worst fears and

56:09

they're better angels of just caring for

56:11

people who are in a tough spot

56:14

or caring for wanting

56:16

to help people who may be

56:18

suffering, understanding the complexity

56:20

of humanity. And ultimately, they

56:22

don't care. They

56:25

don't care. And their record proves that

56:28

they don't care. And so this is

56:30

where they resort to that exploitation and

56:33

that fear-mongering for a single purpose,

56:36

to win and to stay in

56:38

power. But you've got to admire it at

56:40

some level, huh? No. Not

56:43

what they do, but they can do

56:45

it so ruthlessly and mercilessly. Man, it's

56:47

disgusting. It is. No, it's horrifically

56:49

disgusting. I always describe it's like the alien in the

56:51

movie. It just did what it wanted to do, you

56:54

know? But a lot of people like the alien. It

56:58

was ripping people's guts out. Let

57:01

me ask a couple other issue-related things. We're

57:04

obviously seeing all this craziness now on college campuses.

57:06

If people thought it was crazy five years ago,

57:08

a bunch of us warned about it. It's significantly

57:11

crazier just in the last couple of weeks. What

57:13

do we do about this younger generation

57:15

now that has seemingly got all of

57:17

the wrong ideas and is expressing them

57:19

in most of the wrong ways?

57:23

Yeah, you know, I think the

57:25

two big issues that, and I'm sure there are

57:27

more, but the two big issues that I think

57:29

we're seeing, these

57:32

massive protests about on college

57:35

campuses is obviously the war

57:38

between Israel and Hamas. And

57:41

the other is, you know,

57:43

the trans ideology that's being pushed

57:45

on all of us in this

57:47

country and oppressed

57:50

and women and girls. They've been kind

57:52

of combined, too. Which is so bizarre.

57:56

You know, both of them, I think, are rude. And

57:58

I want to talk a little bit about both. are

58:00

rooted in the underlying

58:02

problem that we have a generation of

58:04

young people who have been

58:06

raised in an education

58:09

system that doesn't teach the Constitution,

58:11

that doesn't actually talk about our

58:13

history and our founding and all

58:17

parts of our history, but our founding

58:19

and why even Martin Luther King as

58:21

the civil rights icon didn't

58:23

criticize those founding documents or

58:26

our founders, but listed those,

58:29

their words up as the shining

58:31

example, as the inspiration, as the

58:33

source of hope for equality for

58:35

all Americans, regardless of race. That's

58:38

not being taught in our schools. And so

58:40

we have a generation of young people who

58:42

have no interest in serving in the military, because

58:44

why would you want to die for a country

58:46

that you don't really know why

58:49

this country is great and why it's

58:51

important? And you see no

58:56

pushback when delivered

58:59

this message of, well,

59:01

hey, you can be a woman if you want to be a woman

59:03

anytime, anybody. If Mike Tyson says I'm

59:05

a woman, then he should be allowed to go

59:08

and box against any biological... I'd like to

59:10

see that funny. It

59:14

would be all rated for sure. But

59:17

the fact that the objective truth

59:19

is so easily discarded, it

59:21

should be something that we should all be able to... We

59:25

should at least stand on that common ground. That's

59:28

set aside. And then the real,

59:30

which is to me, this is

59:32

the greatest short and long

59:34

term threat to freedom and

59:36

democracy and civilization in the world,

59:38

is this radical Islamist

59:41

ideology that Islamist

59:43

terrorist groups like Hamas and others

59:45

are very intentionally pushing around the

59:48

world. They are waging ideological warfare

59:50

and you have all of these

59:52

college kids primarily, but others as

59:55

well, who lack

59:57

any grounding in an ideology of their

59:59

own. own and the ideology that's rooted

1:00:01

in freedom or, you know,

1:00:04

basic liberties

1:00:07

and rights and things that we celebrate

1:00:10

in this country. And so they are

1:00:12

vulnerable and very susceptible to this Islamist

1:00:15

ideology, which really is an

1:00:18

ideology of Islamic rule,

1:00:21

Sharia law, a caliphate over

1:00:23

the world. That

1:00:26

is their state. It's not a secret. That is their

1:00:28

stated goal. And you can see the embers

1:00:30

at Columbia right now. And this is exactly

1:00:32

so, you know, someone asked me here today, well,

1:00:34

what should Joe Biden do right now? Like, let's

1:00:36

just start a basic rule of law to

1:00:39

make it so Jewish kids can walk

1:00:41

free on the campus without having their

1:00:44

lives being threatened. They can coexist safely

1:00:48

where everyone's free speech is respected and

1:00:50

recognized or their lives are

1:00:52

not being, their existence is not being threatened.

1:00:56

But really, when that attack happened on

1:00:58

October 7th, that should have been the

1:01:01

wakeup call to President Biden

1:01:03

and other leaders around the world that

1:01:05

this is something far,

1:01:07

this is a threat far greater than,

1:01:09

oh, well, this is just the latest

1:01:11

clash between Israel and Palestine. This

1:01:14

was an intentional act of

1:01:17

terrorism with,

1:01:19

yes, a very

1:01:21

tragic kinetic attack, but

1:01:24

coupled with an intentional

1:01:26

strategy of driving

1:01:29

compassion to influence

1:01:32

people to come to the cause

1:01:34

of the radical Islamist terrorist groups

1:01:37

in the world. And Hamas has

1:01:40

unfortunately been very successful in

1:01:42

that. Are you surprised that the West, Israel

1:01:46

maybe should have been more prepared for that secondary

1:01:48

thing you're talking about, but that the United States,

1:01:50

that other Western nations did not realize what the

1:01:52

play was going to be here. They weren't going

1:01:54

to just defeat them militarily overnight, but that this

1:01:57

was going to be the play. surprised

1:02:00

is because especially in our country, we

1:02:05

saw how President Bush after 9-11, after the

1:02:08

terrorist attack on 9-11, he and

1:02:11

subsequent administrations repeated

1:02:13

that declaration that we will destroy

1:02:16

these Islamist terrorist groups.

1:02:21

The kinetic warfare was waged at

1:02:23

varying levels in a different time,

1:02:26

but that ideology, they directly

1:02:29

said we will defeat them

1:02:31

militarily and ideologically. Well, the

1:02:33

ideological war never took place from our end. It

1:02:38

was being waged from the very beginning from

1:02:40

these Islamist terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS

1:02:43

and Hamas and others. They have been doing

1:02:45

this for a very long time, for hundreds

1:02:47

and hundreds of years, quite frankly. We

1:02:52

are seeing this play out

1:02:54

today directly because our leaders

1:02:56

failed to wage the ideological

1:02:58

war for one

1:03:00

of two reasons. Number

1:03:02

one, either they were

1:03:05

intellectually incapable of communicating

1:03:07

that and drawing the

1:03:09

distinction between Islamist terrorists

1:03:12

versus peace-loving

1:03:16

Muslim people. And

1:03:20

or they were afraid, afraid

1:03:23

of being called Islamophobes for calling

1:03:25

out radical Islamism for what it

1:03:27

is. This was

1:03:29

something that under the Obama administration, I

1:03:32

was roundly criticized for by

1:03:35

Democrats primarily for,

1:03:38

you remember when they made that shift

1:03:40

in their decision, instead of calling them

1:03:42

Islamist terrorists, they started saying,

1:03:44

well, we are countering violent extremism.

1:03:47

How do you defeat an enemy

1:03:50

unless you correctly identify them and

1:03:52

you can communicate what their motivation

1:03:54

is, what they're trying to accomplish?

1:03:57

It's not just like, oh, we want to go

1:03:59

and conduct and insurgency, there is a

1:04:01

very clearly defined objective

1:04:03

of radical Islamism, and they

1:04:06

have been and continue to

1:04:08

wage that ideological war with

1:04:11

no response or

1:04:14

any attempt at taking the offense coming

1:04:17

from leaders in the United

1:04:19

States and other countries in the

1:04:21

West. And you see in some countries

1:04:23

in Europe, someone told me yesterday in

1:04:25

France, for example, we've got over 25%

1:04:27

of the population in France are Islamists

1:04:30

who abide by Sharia law

1:04:33

in France. So

1:04:35

it's no

1:04:37

stretch of imagination to recognize

1:04:41

their goal is to be able to implement Sharia law

1:04:43

everywhere in the world, everywhere in the

1:04:45

world. And if we in the United States continue

1:04:47

down the path that we are on, where

1:04:50

we have leaders who are too afraid

1:04:52

or who are incapable of waging that

1:04:54

ideological warfare, and

1:04:57

a completely open border where

1:04:59

anyone and everyone from anywhere in the world

1:05:01

can literally walk across our border and disappear

1:05:03

in our country, we

1:05:05

will end up yet again,

1:05:08

losing all that we love

1:05:10

and celebrate about living in a free society

1:05:12

in America. One of the things I keep saying

1:05:14

on the show is that what I'm worried about

1:05:16

is that if you go to Israel, they're serious

1:05:18

people because they have had to deal with serious

1:05:20

stuff for a long time. We're

1:05:22

not that serious here. We're way bigger. We're

1:05:24

way more divided just because of cultures and

1:05:26

ethnicities and everything else. Like if something

1:05:29

terrible happens here, something that we can't even think of,

1:05:31

I'm more worried about the things I can't think of

1:05:33

than things I can, to me what

1:05:35

we will do to ourselves in the aftermath

1:05:37

of that will be worse probably than what

1:05:40

they might cook up. It's

1:05:44

hard to say when you look at different

1:05:48

countries who are

1:05:52

already under some form of

1:05:54

radical Islamic governance, who

1:05:56

have access to nuclear weapons. You

1:06:00

know, these are some of them, the

1:06:02

tactical nuclear weapons that can

1:06:04

be more easily transportable. And you look at

1:06:06

the sleeper cells that we already know exist

1:06:09

here in the United States. You

1:06:11

look at the numbers of people who have

1:06:14

not been identified. There's like

1:06:16

over 150 known individuals

1:06:19

on the terror watch list who have entered

1:06:21

our country illegally and been caught. What

1:06:24

about the millions of other people

1:06:26

who have entered our country? Who

1:06:30

are they? Where are they? What

1:06:32

is their intent? Really when it

1:06:35

comes right down to it, you know, the FBI has

1:06:37

no idea. It's

1:06:39

a scary thought. It really is. It

1:06:42

really is. Because

1:06:44

even, you know, when you start

1:06:46

thinking through what is it going to take to...

1:06:52

How do you begin to start finding people who... I

1:06:55

was in San Diego at the border and people who

1:06:57

are literally coming across the border, those

1:06:59

who go through border patrol, maybe

1:07:02

they give a false name. I saw dozens,

1:07:04

just in the couple of days that I was there, I

1:07:06

saw ID cards from countries around

1:07:09

the world, passports from around the world,

1:07:11

either halfway burned, torn

1:07:13

up into pieces right along the

1:07:16

border wall. What

1:07:19

are they presenting then if they go through border

1:07:21

patrol processing? They're just giving a name. How

1:07:25

can they be vetted? You can't be vetted. Really,

1:07:27

truly. You can't really be vetted if you've got

1:07:29

no identification. So

1:07:31

it is a daunting task before us

1:07:34

that we better tackle immediately,

1:07:36

otherwise just by

1:07:40

virtue of who exists in our

1:07:42

country, we are going

1:07:44

to see a very, very serious shift. All right.

1:07:47

Let me ask you one other thing and then the

1:07:49

VP question. So you can just put that one aside

1:07:51

for the moment. This

1:07:54

whole journey that you've been on, we've talked a lot

1:07:56

about politics, but I

1:07:58

know for me it changed me fundamentally. I

1:08:01

think I've become a better human. I understand the world a

1:08:03

little bit better. I've

1:08:05

certainly, I think, reconnected to family and tradition in

1:08:07

different ways. I think I'm spiritually different. That also

1:08:09

has to do with being on tour with Jordan

1:08:12

Peterson and all that. And I wonder what all

1:08:14

of this and now going out there and talking

1:08:16

to people that maybe you thought didn't like you

1:08:18

before or that didn't like you before or just

1:08:20

the whole thing that you've gone

1:08:23

through, how has that shifted you as a

1:08:25

person spiritually, maybe religiously, the whole thing, having

1:08:27

nothing to do with the political part? Yeah,

1:08:30

you know, I, coming

1:08:33

from Hawaii where the Aloha

1:08:35

spirit is the heart of

1:08:37

our culture that

1:08:40

inspires us to treat each other

1:08:42

with respect, that recognizes we are all

1:08:44

children of God, no matter who you are, your

1:08:46

race, or where you come from, or your story,

1:08:48

your background, that I

1:08:52

have and continue to try to live my life inspired

1:08:56

by and rooted in that spirit of Aloha, which

1:08:58

means even as a member of Congress, for all

1:09:00

the time that I was there, I had

1:09:03

so many friends

1:09:06

who were Democrats and Republicans from

1:09:08

the get-go. And

1:09:11

so for me, it was

1:09:13

never an us versus them from

1:09:16

a partisan standpoint. And

1:09:18

even as a longtime Democrat, I

1:09:21

was welcomed by many of my

1:09:23

Republican friends. When Abraham and I

1:09:25

got married, we had Steny Hoyer

1:09:27

and Kevin McCarthy there. We had

1:09:29

Democrat members of Congress and Republican

1:09:31

members of Congress who were genuinely,

1:09:34

sincerely very, very good friends. What

1:09:37

I've experienced after leaving

1:09:39

the Democratic Party is a kind

1:09:41

of freedom rooted in

1:09:44

escaping a

1:09:49

party that constantly was

1:09:51

filled with purity tests

1:09:54

and constantly moving Targets. They

1:10:00

were or like a you know you're if

1:10:02

you're on the football fields like okay, there's

1:10:04

there's there's a, there's the, there's the goal

1:10:06

posts. Well. Constantly moving based on

1:10:09

whatever issue was the cause of

1:10:11

the day or whoever had the

1:10:13

pulpit on any given day and

1:10:15

just a party that was increasingly

1:10:18

crazy stuff and I like a

1:10:20

hot issue of people like a

1:10:22

how do you explain this, How

1:10:24

do you just like I just

1:10:27

can't I just can't and and

1:10:29

so leave the Democratic Party. Immediately.

1:10:32

Being invited to go and campaign eyes

1:10:34

for Republicans and a whole and I

1:10:36

would have if there if there was

1:10:38

a common sense minded democrats. Girl who

1:10:40

said wholesale, I'm I'm in a tough race.

1:10:42

I care about the same things you care

1:10:44

about. I love our country. Would you can

1:10:47

help me? I absolutely would have done that.

1:10:49

Not a single person reached out. And

1:10:51

yet I got goals or party bell right? Exactly

1:10:53

exactly I got. I got calls

1:10:55

from people and in Michigan, Indiana,

1:10:58

Pennsylvania, ah, South Carolina, North Carolina

1:11:00

to an Illinois candidates from a

1:11:02

lot of different states new York

1:11:04

who were in those in those

1:11:06

swing districts is that a while

1:11:08

and I recognize you might be

1:11:10

able to talk to people. That

1:11:12

I can't reach because ooh, I'm

1:11:15

a republican. And I was

1:11:17

very happy to go out and help

1:11:19

and I have here. Here's what I

1:11:21

have. Experienced. Almost.

1:11:25

To a person? Yes, there will. Always be

1:11:27

detractors no matter what needs

1:11:29

to be. Never good enough

1:11:31

for everybody which is fine

1:11:33

but I have experience overwhelmingly

1:11:35

people whose who recognized that

1:11:37

I love my country and

1:11:39

who share that love and

1:11:41

who have nothing but warmth

1:11:43

and their version of the

1:11:45

Aloha spirit. And and it's

1:11:48

been. It's. Been a wonderful

1:11:50

experience and that is where I'd

1:11:52

I find hope they've is set

1:11:54

across the country. I know that

1:11:56

there are far more people who

1:11:58

love our country than. And there are

1:12:00

those who want to destroy it. And

1:12:03

so my personal mission between now and

1:12:05

November 5th is to try to reach

1:12:08

as many of those people as possible

1:12:10

who have not yet made up their

1:12:12

mind in this election, who may feel politically

1:12:14

homeless, and share my story in the hopes

1:12:16

that they come to the same conclusions that

1:12:18

you and I have. So on that

1:12:20

note, I'll ask you the last question. You know what

1:12:23

it is already, but I'll frame it a little bit

1:12:25

differently, which is that I think you should be

1:12:27

the choice. It is obvious

1:12:29

to me, like it's really obvious to me

1:12:31

that if Trump wants to win this election,

1:12:33

he needs to bring in what

1:12:36

you represent. And you are

1:12:38

you. So if you get the

1:12:40

call, I've heard you answered this at least once already.

1:12:43

But I sense that the momentum is going to go in

1:12:45

that way, like, you ready? I'm

1:12:48

ready. I'm ready because

1:12:50

I know what is at stake in

1:12:53

a deep and visceral way in this

1:12:56

election. I'm not on

1:12:58

a ballot. I've got I've you know, I

1:13:01

could be home right now in Hawaii

1:13:03

and surfing and kicking back and relaxing.

1:13:10

But I have chosen I won't

1:13:13

be home until after this election is done

1:13:15

because I know what's at stake. And

1:13:18

if that call came, I would say yes. And I'd

1:13:20

be honored to serve my country

1:13:22

in that way. And to

1:13:24

be in a position first to

1:13:26

help win this election, to stop

1:13:29

the Democrat elite from destroying our

1:13:31

country, and then actually

1:13:34

be in the real work of

1:13:38

getting our country back on track. And

1:13:41

that starts with having people of courage

1:13:43

in our government who

1:13:46

care more about the country than they do

1:13:48

about the political elite in Washington,

1:13:51

and actually rooting out the deep

1:13:53

rot that exists within our bureaucracies,

1:13:55

the administrative state, the deep state

1:13:58

in Washington. It's

1:14:00

gonna take a team of joyful warriors to

1:14:05

go and fight that fight, because

1:14:09

as we've seen time and time again, there

1:14:12

are a lot of powerful people who are unelected in

1:14:15

doing everything they can to hold

1:14:18

onto their power at the cost of the

1:14:20

well-being of the American people. You

1:14:23

think she'd be better than Kamala Harris? No.

1:14:26

Good to see you. Is that even a question? It's good

1:14:28

to see you, my friend. Great to

1:14:30

see you. It's so good to catch up. Thank you for having me on

1:14:32

your show. Thanks

1:14:41

for tuning in to The Rubin Report. Don't

1:14:43

forget to review, share, and subscribe to this

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podcast. If you're looking for

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