0:00

It's the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel. The

0:02

road to the NBA Finals starts now, and FanDuel

0:04

is the best place to get in on the

0:06

action. Right now, you can check out the new

0:08

and improved Quick Bets, which are back

0:11

and better than ever for the NBA playoffs

0:13

on FanDuel. Find out what you're

0:15

looking for faster and easier with more props

0:17

right at your fingertips. You can check out

0:23

quarter player props, player assist combos, and

0:25

more. So download the app today and

0:27

bet with Fandul, official partner of the

0:29

NBA. The Ringer is committed

0:31

to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com

0:34

to learn more about the resources

0:36

and help lines available. And

0:38

listen to the end of the episode for additional

0:41

details. Must be 21 years and older, 18 and

0:44

older in DC, and present in

0:46

select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER

0:48

or visit rg-help.com. This

0:52

episode is supported by State Farm. Man,

0:54

I remember when I first got into

0:56

a car accident, it was pure frustration because

0:58

I did not have State Farm. And

1:01

now that I do have State Farm, it

1:03

is an exclamation of

1:05

pure joy. But But

1:08

the only words that you need to remember

1:10

are like a good neighbor State Farm is

1:12

there State Farm has options to fit your

1:15

unique Insurance needs meaning you can talk to

1:17

your agent to choose the coverage you need

1:19

have coverage options to protect the things you

1:21

value most Learn

1:30

more at statefarm.com. Ringer

1:52

Wrestling Worldwide. Where we hit on the

1:54

most interesting headlines and even react to

1:56

some of Masked Man's and even your

1:58

hottest takes. Don't tap out. Tap

2:00

it to the Ringer Wrestling Show feed now

2:02

on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast

2:05

worldwide Hello

2:24

and welcome to the Ringer MBA

2:26

show I am Justin barrier and

2:28

joining me it is Parker

2:31

tiles tiles Parker, whatever you want to call

2:33

him. What's up? What's

2:35

up, dude? How you doing, man? I'm

2:38

kind of winded Even though

2:40

I didn't play a second of that game

2:42

to the Western Conference Finals I almost feel

2:44

like I want to open this just by

2:46

swearing at you violently in Serbian Slovenian

2:50

whatever you want to do here. Yeah, whatever

2:52

go home is In

2:55

Slovenian. Yeah, we could get seared to do a quick

2:57

I don't know if y'all are still doing those Google

2:59

ads where you know you get them to to say

3:01

something for you But yeah, maybe throw one of those

3:03

in there Yeah, what

3:05

a absolute stone

3:08

cold killer That

3:11

was One of

3:13

the most remarkable shots I've seen

3:15

in a while Honestly, it

3:17

seemed like things were trending in that direction.

3:19

We're gonna talk about Eastern Conference Finals But

3:22

obviously we're gonna spend the bulk of this

3:24

podcast talking to you about game to Western

3:27

Conference Finals Mavs go up to nothing But

3:29

like it seemed like the game was there

3:31

for the Mavs Pretty

3:33

much after halftime. It seemed Luca had

3:35

that amazing third quarter and It

3:38

just felt like the wolves were constantly

3:40

almost in prevent defense mode where they

3:43

were hanging on by sheer will of

3:45

Nas Reed's three-point ability but

3:48

Ultimately, you can only do so much against Luca and there he

3:50

was at the end to hit the big shot. I Think

3:54

that's a perfect description of it. Just that like okay.

3:56

We can't give up the big play here We can't

3:58

give up the big play here. So let's Let's

4:01

let's kind of lay off and and

4:04

just hold on to the rope for dear

4:06

life. And yeah, I mean,

4:08

it was. It's

4:12

been fascinating watching Luca in this

4:14

these playoffs in particular, because like

4:16

he finally does kind of just

4:19

feel very very seasoned. Like we've

4:21

seen him in these positions a lot. He's been around

4:23

a lot. You know what I mean? And

4:26

they're at no point once he

4:28

got that switch on to go bare. Did

4:30

I think anything other than a three was coming?

4:33

And at no point did I think he was going

4:35

to miss it. As

4:38

soon as he started the dance and

4:41

had go bare

4:43

trying to swivel those hips. It

4:46

just seemed like he was he was dead

4:49

to rights. Yeah, so 32 13 assists

4:51

10 rebounds 5 for 11 from three. My

4:56

question is honestly, what was go

4:58

bare doing in the game at that

5:00

point? Because it seemed like that was coming

5:03

a few possessions before that. And

5:06

clearly they were going for the switch pretty

5:08

relentlessly against go bare. I

5:11

guess that we have to keep go bare

5:13

and no matter what edict just kind of

5:15

coming back to bite them. Maybe so. It

5:20

doesn't, especially when you've

5:22

like you say when you've gone to it earlier in

5:24

the game. Like less than a

5:26

minute of game time had gone

5:28

down between then and when they had

5:30

gone small earlier on. When they

5:32

brought Anderson into the five because they were going to start

5:35

trying to switch everything whenever they had whatever that was in

5:37

five point lead before Donchich hits Irving

5:39

in the corner for that three to make it 108 106. Right?

5:43

Like they went small there at that point and it

5:45

still doesn't matter. They try to

5:47

blitz Kyrie. Kyrie gets to the corner because

5:49

he's unfathomably

5:51

fast and

5:53

they're smoked. You know what

5:55

I mean? It's a. They.

6:00

I don't know why.

6:04

You. Would give up. That.

6:08

Match up so easily if

6:10

I'm if I'm the I'm

6:12

say and. Know.

6:14

Jaden, you fight over the top

6:16

of this and stay with them.

6:18

Ah, and. It's. Not that if

6:20

you do decide, okay, we're gonna roll with this

6:23

and we're gonna ride out this which would go

6:25

bare out there. I don't know how you don't

6:27

run another defend or over Adam pretty quickly to

6:29

try to get him to give up the ball.

6:31

I think at that point it's kind of anybody

6:33

other than him. Make. Them Beaches.

6:35

You know what I mean to let him kind of

6:37

dance for as long as he got to do. You

6:40

know, go Bare was was it

6:42

was. it was over before the dribbling

6:44

started. That I think is

6:47

the key point. They're like, why not just

6:49

horse anybody else on that court to be

6:51

too? Because it seems like even Tyree at

6:53

that stage of the game just kind of

6:55

have lost whatever when whatever momentum he had

6:57

built earlier is just a miss. Those two

7:00

free throws which almost seemed like might have

7:02

been done them and the and I thought

7:04

that was might have been the crucial deciding

7:06

factor in this one. Ah, But. You're

7:08

right, they didn't have a better job

7:10

like using not to step up on

7:12

him earlier or com possessions before that.

7:15

Obviously Jaden was getting. Absolutely.

7:17

Barbecues alive the entire game. so why

7:20

not just sent to and just hope

7:22

that you could do something off? The

7:24

pass from there are is pretty perplexing

7:27

but I guess everything they throw direct

7:29

luca at this game. Wasn't

7:31

really working. It was like so bizarre because

7:34

the game started with that early time. Where.

7:36

He instantly starts grimacing to the point

7:39

where he was biting a towel and

7:41

I was like oh no. By.

7:43

As you seem to these this entire post

7:46

season, basically he is either dead to rights

7:48

or just the best player in basketball and

7:50

it just seemed like from that point on

7:53

as it all went his way. It.

7:57

watching him kind of

8:01

Slowly, slowly get the reins.

8:03

He starts off pretty

8:06

cold. I mean, through the first really like whatever

8:08

it felt like, you know, three, three

8:10

and a half quarters. And

8:12

then him and Kyrie

8:15

both kind of get going there right at

8:17

the same time. Kyrie, you know, hadn't hit,

8:19

had, had hit, I think one three all

8:21

playoffs before he rattles off three there. They

8:23

kind of both get going. Kyrie kind of,

8:25

you know, the way it kind

8:27

of rolls back, but Luca just keeps the

8:29

pedal down. I

8:33

don't know how many times the Wolves

8:35

have to see Luca

8:39

snake around a, you know, high

8:41

screen from Lively into a step

8:43

back where it's like he's, you

8:45

feel him have that timing down and

8:48

that geometry down. He knows how much space he

8:50

needs to get. He knows it's there. It's

8:52

not even a rushed shot. It feels

8:55

like when you're navigating around these moving

8:57

bodies in this situation where another big

8:59

is also coming up, like trying to

9:01

show in some way, right? Like it

9:03

wouldn't be as old hat as it

9:06

seems for him. But

9:08

yeah, the control is just at

9:11

these heightened moments. Yeah. If

9:13

you let him be up

9:16

there and throw

9:18

on his own without throwing him another body

9:20

and making him either get rid of it

9:22

or see a lot of arms, then

9:25

you're

9:27

really playing with fire at

9:29

this point. It just doesn't, McDaniel's

9:31

is going to get in jail there and

9:34

he's, Luca's just going to have him

9:36

ride his back the entire way into

9:39

the lane. And then he's going to,

9:41

it's going to be like some great triple

9:43

option quarterback. He'll, he jumps up

9:45

into the air and he

9:47

waits until the last possible second and it's

9:49

either, you know, bop, bop to one of

9:51

the corners or a lob to Lively or

9:53

Gafford. And when you let him get

9:55

into a rhythm like that, it's

9:58

just really hard to. Um,

10:02

get him to shift back down into second gear.

10:04

Once he's, once he's felt

10:06

like, okay, this is what I'm seeing tonight. This

10:08

is the diet tonight. You know? So

10:11

Jaden McDaniel's was, I believe a

10:13

second team, all defensive player. And

10:16

he looks absolutely lost in

10:19

this game. And I don't blame him because

10:21

there's just only so much you could do

10:23

against Luca when he just has a complete

10:25

vice grip of the game, like the way

10:27

that he did, and I also thought it

10:30

helped early on that it wasn't so much

10:32

the Luca gives away to Kyrie Cadence that

10:34

we've seen so much in this postseason. It

10:36

seemed at the very least that they were

10:38

synchronized and kind of trading off in a

10:40

way that felt natural. It was dueling banjos,

10:42

but almost like intentionally dueling banjos where it's

10:44

like you have half the solo and then

10:46

someone picks it up and just going back

10:48

and forth and it's almost like three

10:50

plan that way, but at

10:53

that third quarter hit. It

10:55

almost felt like the best defense that the

10:57

wolves had against Luca was the fact that

10:59

he had scored so much and seemed to

11:02

be getting tired and then had to be

11:04

subbed out. It was just. Unbelievable.

11:06

I've never seen someone have this level

11:09

of success against this caliber of defense.

11:11

I guess it's just because he's so

11:13

big on top of everything

11:16

else that like, I don't know

11:18

which player oddly enough on the best

11:20

defense in the NBA, one of the

11:23

best defenses probably in recent history matches

11:25

up with him. I

11:27

guess to a certain extent, like the superstar

11:30

shit from a superstar and best player

11:33

is just like winning the series for

11:35

that. It's. They

11:38

don't have anyone left to throw at him. You

11:41

know what I mean? Yeah. I'm not aside

11:44

from just getting the ball out of his hands

11:46

as quickly as possible and

11:48

trying to be a little bit more

11:50

creative with some of your doubles. Like

11:52

there are some situations tonight, especially where,

11:55

you know, go bear would kind of find himself in a

11:57

little bit of no man's land, especially when Luca would find

11:59

himself down. there in kind of the mid post

12:01

trying to you know kind of bully ball somebody

12:03

you would see go bear kind of want to

12:05

go but kind of get into this halfway spot

12:07

not all the time but sometimes and it's like

12:10

you know Luca makes you play perfect and then

12:12

you have to kind of pray otherwise right and

12:14

so it's if you're going to be

12:17

trying to hedge your bets in some way

12:20

he's gonna catch you in that you

12:22

know lie and make you

12:24

pay and yeah

12:27

I mean whenever you see Gafford

12:32

and lively being so effective and

12:35

so active on both ends I

12:37

mean they just like have

12:40

the rim on lock at this point and to

12:42

say that in this series with go bear

12:44

and this physical it was the Wolves have been

12:46

and as much as they kind

12:48

of control that area against the Nuggets I

12:50

mean I'm not sure what else

12:53

any reasonable person could want from Gafford and

12:55

lively out of the center position what they're

12:57

getting is just nuts it's

13:00

funny because I almost feel like go

13:02

bear will never be as good on

13:04

offense as lively is right now as

13:06

a rookie in his first postseason and

13:09

now like that's clearly a dig at go

13:11

bear an unnecessary one but it

13:13

also shows you how far along lively

13:16

is just like based on feel and

13:18

just like pure bounciness and activity just

13:20

like him getting on the floor for

13:22

some of these defensive plays he's

13:25

absolutely incredible and in like it's

13:27

a such a nice mirror to what they're

13:29

doing in the backcourt with Kyrie and Luca

13:31

who clearly best backcourt in the NBA stand

13:34

ban win as far as to say an

13:36

NBA history I haven't done the research on

13:38

that one but I mean maybe I guess

13:40

let's look them win a title first before

13:42

we can even get into Stephen Clay territory

13:47

but like the center rotation of Gafford

13:49

and lively the fact that they're just

13:51

like putting them out there for bursts

13:53

almost a Zion level burst strategy and

13:56

just saying run the fuck

13:58

up the court and just be a as

14:00

active as humanly possible. I wonder if

14:02

that's just like in subtle ways,

14:04

wearing down some of the bigs of the wolves

14:06

and some of the other teams that they've faced.

14:09

Like Go Bear is a fairly fit,

14:11

giant Frenchman who probably

14:13

playing 30 plus minutes,

14:16

he's gotta be tired just trying to keep

14:18

up with Luca and everything else. And then

14:20

have these guys, these speed demon road runners

14:22

kind of going up and down the floor,

14:25

just like playing after every ball. I imagine

14:27

that just like kind of cascades the fact

14:29

that Luca starts the dominant way. I

14:32

totally agree. I think another aspect

14:35

of it that can make, that can wear

14:37

on Go Bear and

14:39

just any big who's

14:42

being asked to guard it over and over

14:44

and over is as

14:47

these high screens with

14:49

Luca, Luca and anybody you're

14:51

being asked to, that

14:53

requires your utmost attention for the entire time

14:55

and you can't make a mistake. But

14:58

when you sort of add

15:00

that where like now you're seeing Dallas

15:02

more and more kind of like move

15:04

that high screen up further and further

15:07

in the half court. So Go Bears

15:09

having to cover even more ground and

15:11

it gives Doncic a chance

15:13

to kind of like assess a little bit longer

15:15

and get the defender on his back even earlier

15:17

if they're playing it the way the wolves are

15:20

playing it. And when you're

15:22

asking Go Bear to try to cover all that

15:25

kind of ground and

15:27

get back and either try to contest for a

15:29

lob or try to scramble to one

15:31

of the corners where, DJJ

15:33

or Washington have been shooting the ball pretty

15:35

well. It's like, it's a lot to ask.

15:39

It makes sense that he's getting tired

15:41

because he's also, Luca's

15:44

just punishing anybody when he comes down

15:46

there. You know what I mean? Like

15:49

it's, Luca's got a shoulder for anybody.

15:53

So lively in Kyle

15:55

Mann's final rookie rankings,

15:57

the vaunted rookie rankings.

15:59

Yes. I had him, let's

16:01

see here, six overall. So

16:05

top three, obviously, Wembley, your

16:08

guy, Chad, Brandon Miller.

16:10

Then he has Hakes, Wallace,

16:13

and then Lively. Right.

16:16

If we were to redo this now, now that

16:18

we have reached peak Lively in the post season,

16:22

probably fourth, right? You

16:24

would think, I bet if you asked Kyle, he

16:27

would say that too. I mean,

16:30

to see him doing this stuff on the biggest

16:32

stage, able to hold up, not

16:35

just at the rim, but also on some of

16:37

these switches, like sliding his feet and actually kind

16:39

of staying with some of these wings that he's

16:42

getting switched out onto, I mean,

16:45

the activity's just bonkers. The stat that's

16:47

going around that everybody got all hopped

16:49

up on about him having the second

16:51

highest, plus or minus for a rookie

16:53

since Manu. Like, you know, I

16:55

get it. Like, if you're

16:58

going to be compared to a rookie who,

17:02

really affected winning, you can do a hell of a

17:04

lot worse than Manu. And yeah,

17:06

I mean, it's, there's

17:11

a sophistication with Lively,

17:18

that is becoming more and

17:20

more evident. You're seeing them with the ball in these

17:22

short rolls a little bit more in these situations where

17:24

they are blitz and Luca

17:27

and Kyrie, he is a decent passer

17:29

in some of those situations. And

17:33

I mean, he's just, I don't

17:35

think you can say enough about how hard it is

17:38

to play against a big, who's going to be

17:40

that physical, who's also going to go to the boards

17:42

every time. It's like, it's one

17:44

thing to play against a guy who's every now

17:46

and again, going to fly in and you kind

17:48

of got to kind of keep your eye on

17:50

him. But when it's consistent and you know, Gobert

17:52

is going to have to box out until he

17:56

or someone on the other team has the ball, that

17:58

he can't quit That. Effort.

18:01

Until then. Ah yeah, I

18:03

mean I just think she's. Afraid.

18:05

She's him and yeah to were and are wearing

18:07

these guys adult. Yeah. Yeah,

18:10

that one pass live we did from

18:12

the top of the arts where he

18:14

found a cutting luke advantage which might

18:16

be the only time we say that

18:18

sentence guide you in history ever again

18:20

spice the fact that he looks so

18:23

naturally passing over the top I think

18:25

to speech the what we're saying there

18:27

but I guess the flipside of all

18:29

the sites Luca does best would be

18:31

the bed story of ants for the

18:33

wolves here. I thought this was

18:36

gonna be in a game right? Some the

18:38

job they were getting downhill and attacking and

18:40

more importantly, drawing free throws in a way

18:42

that I just thought that was the recipe

18:45

for success. For and for the wolves. As

18:47

a seem like they were just doing so

18:49

much of that I'm flying with the style

18:51

of reckless abandon that really kind of speaks

18:53

to their identity and why they were so

18:56

successful in those first two rounds as ago.

18:58

This this works and this is how they're

19:00

going to win a game. Ah, Unfortunately, it

19:02

seems like things trickle into a situation where.

19:05

Of aunt is forced to be a decision maker.

19:07

Seems like the book is out in that regard,

19:09

and it's It's a little bit more spotty from

19:11

the i wondered. Like not to take

19:13

anything away from what might be the one

19:15

degree is not read performances we'd seen as

19:17

he was what are his first for threes

19:19

was five or six i think a half

19:22

time from three and kept going. once up,

19:24

whatever. seven of I guess nine. my day

19:26

I can remember. It's. Incredible as

19:28

us operate as children. And

19:31

it's he was seven for nine

19:33

but in April thirteenth overall twenty

19:35

three points with which is like

19:37

unbelievable but it felt like. A

19:40

lot of those just some of those shots

19:42

were set up by hands but it almost

19:44

mask I think what was happening. but look

19:46

at take over because that was kind of

19:49

keeping them when they needed something to really

19:51

bring them back in. oh

19:53

he was the same you tonight

19:55

without without naas that's an ugly

19:58

ugly game that and make that

20:00

may snowball and get out of hand. I mean, if

20:02

they don't have him hitting the

20:06

way that he's hitting, and

20:08

just like being a guy

20:10

you have to guard, you know what I mean? Like

20:13

that's, it, you

20:18

feel comfortable when the ball is in his hands.

20:20

And so yeah, I mean, I'm with you that

20:23

I think that the

20:25

Nas laser light show may

20:27

have distracted from

20:30

some larger wolves

20:32

problems coming to the surface. Yeah, I

20:34

mean, offensively I'm with you.

20:37

I mean, I think that Ant

20:40

does have, ways

20:44

to get better in terms of how he processes the

20:47

game. There is, it isn't as quick as it's going

20:49

to need to be. I'm

20:53

sure it will get there. But

20:56

yeah, I mean, they're testing the

20:58

limits of

21:00

what his computer is capable of right

21:03

now. And it, I think, I mean,

21:06

I need to go back and watch.

21:10

Like for the most part, like you

21:12

say, especially early, like process wise, I'm kind

21:14

of fine with it. The shots they were

21:16

getting, I mean, this is an unbelievable

21:20

Dallas defense and they were guarding

21:23

their asses off tonight. And

21:25

so it felt

21:27

like in a couple situations in

21:30

the second quarter, especially, Edwards

21:33

just touch felt a little bit off. Bunny's

21:36

where he's taken some contact, but you've seen him

21:38

plenty of times finished through that sort of stuff.

21:41

And it, yeah, there was just something

21:43

not quite, he couldn't quite get

21:45

into the flow, it felt like. You know what

21:47

I mean? And yeah,

21:50

and then when they need the kind of turn it

21:52

on, it just didn't quite feel like he could get

21:55

to that fourth year that we've seen him get to

21:58

during this post season. So it, Hopefully,

22:01

if I'm a Minnesota fan, I'm hoping that

22:03

I can figure out a

22:05

way to get out into transition a

22:07

little bit more, get Edwards going

22:09

downhill a little bit more, maybe start

22:11

trying to do some kind of big-to-big

22:14

stuff with Kat and Naza out there together,

22:16

have one of them handled and the other

22:18

one picked, like get these bigs trying to

22:21

at least move side-to-side a little bit more

22:23

than they're maybe being asked to now and

22:27

guard in ways that they're not typically

22:29

accustomed to, you know what I mean? But

22:33

yeah, just going back to

22:35

what you said earlier, it did feel like a situation

22:37

where it was like, are we

22:39

kind of headed for just

22:42

the Mavs kind of keeping it close enough

22:44

and then Luca, nail

22:46

on the door shut, it did kind of feel

22:48

like there was some amount of inevitability there in

22:50

some way. Yeah, 21,

22:52

7 assists, 5 rebounds for man.

22:55

It's not bad. It's

22:57

muted, you know? It's just like, it's

22:59

good, but it's probably not to the

23:01

level you need from your superstar in

23:04

the Western Conference Finals when you have

23:06

to duel against Luca who's playing at

23:08

an absolute maximum right now. And so,

23:10

like it feels like we're being critical

23:12

of Ann, but it's more just like

23:14

the situation that you find yourself in,

23:16

this vacuum where it's like, you

23:19

have to be at this level, but unfortunately

23:21

like you're just like on the way there.

23:24

Especially in a situation where

23:27

the guy who you're used to

23:29

providing you some secondary support just

23:31

doesn't have anything going. I

23:33

mean, Kat just ghosted tonight

23:35

basically. Shot

23:39

just not there at all. And

23:41

just kind of like ineffectual,

23:44

you know what I mean? Yeah. Like

23:46

there's just no verve to it really. And

23:51

there's just too many times where you

23:54

look down there and as

23:57

much as Kat was attacking, sometimes there

23:59

are still... too

24:01

many instances where you look down there and

24:05

he's got whoever,

24:07

Jaden Hardy on him or Josh Green

24:09

or whatever and it's like dude,

24:13

face up, take this guy to the rim. Like

24:15

just give him a ride to the rim. Like

24:18

you've got that in you. And

24:23

when he does hit these little, or try

24:25

these one-legged fadeaways and stuff, which

24:28

I realize he's capable of hitting, there

24:30

is just something like, it's

24:33

not a morale booster. You know what I mean? The

24:35

attempt itself is not something that's going to, you know

24:37

what I mean? If

24:40

you're Chris Finch, if you're these people and you're

24:42

just like preaching like, let's take the fight to

24:44

them. Hey guys, guess what? The Western Conference Finals

24:46

started, you know, those like spinning

24:49

out of a post up against Josh Green and trying to

24:51

shoot a fadeaway over him, like it's just not going to

24:53

get it done. Yeah,

24:56

the Western Conference Finals started and unfortunately

24:58

they weren't there in the first play

25:00

to get the inbounds passed. I think

25:02

that happened earlier in the playoffs. It

25:08

happened in one of those early Denver

25:10

games, I'm pretty sure. A similar thing where

25:12

like at the start of the, I

25:15

think, game, it

25:17

happened. And that's just like very, that's

25:20

just weird. Yeah. I

25:24

mean, that's great, great analysis, but

25:26

don't you find that change? It's

25:29

a little weird. This

25:32

episode is supported by State Farm. Man,

25:34

I remember when I first got into a

25:36

car accident, it was pure frustration because I

25:39

did not have State Farm. And

25:41

now that I do have State Farm, it

25:43

is an exclamation of

25:46

pure joy. But the only

25:48

words that you need to remember are like

25:50

a good neighbor State Farm is there

25:52

State Farm has options to fit your

25:54

unique Insurance needs meaning you can talk

25:56

to your agent to choose the coverage

25:58

you need have coverage options to protect

26:00

the things you value most Were

26:10

more state farm.com. This.

26:13

Episode is brought to you by Visible

26:15

Wireless One, a wireless provider that always

26:17

brings it's a game switched to Visible

26:20

the wireless company that makes wireless visible.

26:22

Get. A one line plan with unlimited

26:24

five g data power by the rise

26:27

in as low as twenty five dollars

26:29

a month every month, taxes and fees

26:31

included. And as if that wasn't already

26:33

a huge when you could use Promo

26:36

Code Ringer Twenty to receive twenty dollars

26:38

off your first month just for listening

26:40

to us talk about basketball. Not bad,

26:42

right? You don't need more than one

26:45

line of wireless to save to switch

26:47

to Visible at visible.com and use Promo

26:49

Code Ringer Twenty for data management practices

26:51

and additional terms. Visit visible.com. The visible

26:53

monthly rate is twenty five dollars per month.

26:56

This. Of says breathy Buy Cars that

26:58

com when you add your carter, your

27:00

garage and cars that com your mark

27:02

access to real time insights into how

27:04

much your car is worth. Past. You.

27:07

It's historic on project to die to decide.

27:10

When to? Sell. So.

27:12

And time is right. you can scared instant

27:14

offer from a local dealership or so it

27:16

yourself on cars that com. Start.

27:18

Tracking your cards value with your

27:20

garage on cars Dhaka This episode

27:23

is brought to buy Thomas' Thomas'

27:25

Presents Pondering the Bagel with Tom

27:28

oh the paradox of the bagels.

27:30

His crunchy yet soft is filling

27:32

yet has a whole city's a

27:34

vehicle for spreads but only troublesome

27:36

toasted to play samosas. Access to

27:39

breakfast I I think this is

27:41

just kind of the identity of

27:43

the seem. Kind. Of. on

27:45

or thing as things go along like it

27:48

does feel like these teams at a certain

27:50

point especially once they get familiar with each

27:52

other the default to their natural setting and

27:54

like the wolves have just been playing way

27:57

over the head for so long and much

27:59

to there They deserve everything for what they

28:01

did against the nuggets But just like this feels more

28:03

what I kind of expected from the world going into

28:05

the playoffs at the point where like I thought The

28:07

Suns might win that first round series going into it.

28:10

Obviously that was a hundred percent wrong and they've

28:12

been a much better team but it just feels like

28:15

ant hitting this wall and Trying

28:17

to figure things out having to beat

28:19

teams more with his processing speed than

28:22

his literal foot speed And

28:24

then like towns being quite

28:26

frankly a little townsy where he's a

28:29

little loosey-goosey Townsend

28:32

I've started to use

28:34

him as the example for other

28:36

players in on other teams being

28:38

a little too Squishy, you know

28:40

a little not assertive enough a

28:43

little to kind of just Somewhere

28:45

out there in galaxy brain and just lost

28:47

they have a lot of fair attitude towards

28:50

towards assertive this Exactly. So

28:52

and I this just happened to be that one I

28:55

mean, he's in a lot of ways He's like almost

28:57

like the perfect heat player where it's like they have

28:59

all these guys Derek Jones Jr Used to be one

29:01

of these guys where it's like he's a small

29:03

who plays like a big towns Unfortunately, he's a

29:05

big who wants to play like the small and

29:08

if he's not hitting shots You

29:10

really kind of have to drive it into him.

29:12

It seems like to be like go dude. Go

29:14

be large, you know Yeah credit finish though. I

29:16

will say sticking with read down the stretch. I

29:18

think there was no way you were taking him

29:20

off the court And I

29:23

guess if we want to like revisit the

29:25

who you put in the game Overgo bear

29:28

in that situation like do we think towns

29:30

would have fared better

29:32

considering the game he had had He's

29:34

a little bit quicker in terms of like

29:36

lateral movement No, I

29:39

mean, I think I think

29:41

they kind of showed their handle what they prefer

29:43

right during that moment where they put slow-mo

29:45

out There I think that that's kind of if

29:47

you you know, I'm sure

29:49

if you forced You Know

29:54

finches hand a few more times he would

29:56

say, you know that that that's kind of

30:00

Way, they would like to play sometimes that maybe they don't

30:02

get a chance to because you just the

30:04

roster is the roster It's

30:07

uh, what I mean ain't like

30:11

Edwards I'm still so encouraged

30:13

by his play like this is this is

30:16

this is a bump You know what? I

30:18

mean like he's got he's got all this

30:20

in them what they're asking of him. He

30:22

is capable of It's just

30:24

he's early in figuring out how to figure it

30:26

out You know what I mean and and like

30:29

I think that's I think that stuff is is

30:32

coming um and like We

30:35

know the fearlessness is there and we know he

30:37

wants the moment. So it's yeah, you know I

30:39

if if if

30:42

he was Shrinking

30:46

and kind of fading in the ways that

30:48

cat is capable of sometimes like at least

30:50

with Edwards like he Fails

30:52

trying you know what I mean? Like there's like

30:54

there's not a lot of arrows in the quiver

30:56

at the end like you know he you know

30:58

who he went for it and so

31:01

it it it um It

31:05

wouldn't surprise me to see them win one or

31:07

two more games in this series It you know

31:09

losing the first two it's hard to feel good

31:11

about work there. You know, I mean it's

31:13

uh it a Couple

31:16

bounces here and there like we're having a totally

31:18

different conversation like it feels like I mean it's

31:21

same thing as the first game But

31:23

there is something about watching these two

31:25

teams try to execute in late-game situations

31:28

where you're just like Oh,

31:30

yeah a couple of these guys have taken this

31:32

test before and they got they like know what

31:34

the answer is now and a couple

31:36

of These guys have not had this

31:39

Level of test yet and they're trying

31:41

to get their sea legs There's

31:44

any reason for optimism. It's that they

31:46

tend to not play well at home

31:48

for whatever reason despite the crowd seemingly

31:50

being just incredible So maybe the flip

31:53

back to Dallas will will change something

31:55

there. I'm curious though if you're Chris

31:57

the Chris Finch. I'm Mike anore

32:00

You're giving me the directions from your cushy

32:02

Second row seat to tell to the guys as

32:05

we go into game three here. Is

32:07

there anything you're noticing that's actually

32:09

like Tactically different like you

32:11

could change x y and z Because

32:15

we're kind of we're talking through it here and I don't see

32:17

any obvious No, I mean

32:19

there was like some of the some of the stuff

32:21

I said earlier like You play

32:23

nods and towns together and maybe

32:27

Make some of dallas's bigs Guard

32:30

like a big to big kind of pick and

32:32

roll do some old-school kind of lamar odom poggers

32:34

all kind of stuff where You're

32:36

just making Everybody on the

32:38

floor guard in a way that they're not Traditionally,

32:41

they're not as used to guarding as

32:43

they are other ones, right? And Trying

32:46

to get some of these guys in that

32:49

You know that like some of these situations

32:51

where they're you know set and flare screens

32:53

for nah stuff like that like these um

32:57

These things where these bigs are having to guard

33:00

you know Two and three

33:02

different actions on the perimeter and chasing

33:04

a big off another screen just like

33:06

requiring more out of those defenders than

33:08

they're requiring sometimes You

33:11

see how how it goes and then

33:13

I mean, I think you you you say look,

33:17

uh Edwards

33:19

and towns aren't going to shoot this bad again

33:22

Like this was a particularly bad shoot night for both

33:24

of them I don't think that both of them are

33:26

going to shoot this bad again and we

33:28

were in the game and you like,

33:30

you know like Defensively

33:32

they haven't had the answers, you know sort

33:34

of in the end game when they've needed

33:36

them but There's

33:38

you wouldn't say that dallas is just Slicing

33:41

and dyson necessarily right like it's

33:44

so it's um I

33:46

don't think it's an all-help is lost sort of

33:48

situation. I think it's just You

33:51

you're you're there's just a

33:54

sobering reality that right now

33:56

the other side has the

33:58

better clothes and that

34:01

they just have to live in that reality for

34:03

now. Yeah,

34:05

I mean, if I were them, I'd be trying to

34:07

get out and run a little bit more. I mean,

34:10

that's why I would maybe try to play a

34:12

little bit smaller in some of these situations. Just

34:14

try to like change the game up

34:16

a little bit, see if you can unlock something.

34:21

Because you feel Edwards being more

34:23

comfortable in the open floor. The

34:26

problem is, can

34:28

you still defend the

34:31

rim like you want to? Are you still going to

34:33

be able to run off of misses?

34:35

Or are you going to be pulling the ball out

34:37

of the net too much because of this change? You

34:39

know what I mean? Like, the

34:44

one thing about them is since we've

34:46

seen Edwards go on these heater streaks,

34:49

they don't feel totally dead in

34:52

the water. You know what I mean?

34:54

Like, if two weeks from now, we

34:56

looked back and Edwards went for 40 plus three

34:58

games in a row, you wouldn't really

35:00

bat an eye at this point. He's got those

35:03

kinds of games in him. And

35:06

maybe it just winds up being his time. Maybe

35:08

they're late bloomers in

35:10

this series or something, and he goes bananas. But

35:12

right now, I mean, especially after

35:15

you see whatever that's, there was another stat

35:17

going around. It's like, you know, in the

35:20

conference finals, the team that wins game one

35:22

usually wins like 76% of

35:24

the time or something like that. You know,

35:28

it's very, very difficult to be confronted

35:30

by that math and think like, hey, you know,

35:32

the wolves are still in it. But,

35:36

you know, Edwards can be a

35:38

miracle worker, and we've

35:40

seen him do it before. So who knows? Right now,

35:43

I'd feel better being a math fan, for sure. Yeah.

35:46

I mean, listen, the Nuggs flipped the series for

35:48

at least a time in this exact

35:50

same situation. And these games are

35:53

way closer than any of the individual games

35:55

before game sevens in that last one. This

35:57

is like a couple plays here and

35:59

there. And the wolves are back in the series and if

36:01

you want to give the wolves credit they practically Out

36:06

of this series at least offensively where it's just

36:09

like you move them slightly above the break and

36:11

he's just like a completely different Player he just

36:13

seems lost at sea to the point where it's

36:15

not just the missed shots It's also just like

36:17

fumbles on passes and like this passes. He's just

36:20

like Next

36:24

year in Gordon and then all of

36:26

a sudden he's he's back to Charlotte

36:28

PJ Washington, unfortunately So

36:30

they have that going for them and I think you're right

36:32

if they just did a good in game I wonder

36:35

he you're right He has been better pushing and

36:37

transition almost like what LeBron was doing against Jokic

36:40

and that first round series where it's not like

36:42

all the time when he sees an opening He's

36:44

going for it and you could definitely tell he's

36:46

trying to get the head of steam as much

36:49

as possible Endless wonder if

36:51

the this way and I'm curious what you

36:53

think here It's like is there a way

36:55

to use him almost how New Orleans uses

36:57

Zion off of pin downs and screens and

36:59

then getting him The ball where it's like

37:02

can Connelly handle more and you use actions

37:05

to free Edwards in order to get him

37:07

downhill and finish now I guess the problem

37:09

with that is you're ultimately gonna hit lively

37:11

or gafford at the rim no matter what?

37:15

But you know if you're getting to the line off of

37:17

that a good amount I wonder if that's like maybe a

37:19

little something to make up the margins. I I

37:23

really like the idea of moving

37:25

him off the ball some

37:27

and Taking that burden off

37:29

of him getting them a

37:31

couple screens and you

37:33

know you make towns or

37:35

read that first

37:38

screener and then and then you

37:41

have Edwards popping

37:43

off that double screen catching the ball

37:45

then you have go bear screening for

37:47

Nas or towns and they're popping off

37:49

something just like Trying

37:51

to layer some actions on top of each

37:54

other get Edwards on the move Try

37:57

to get his defender behind him and hopefully

38:00

you have at least Distracted

38:03

some of the bigs with the other action that's

38:05

happening there You know what I mean and maybe

38:07

instead of it being gafford that's meeting him at

38:09

the rim You've got a better chance

38:11

because it's just Derek Jones jr. And lord knows that's

38:14

not a easy task

38:16

either The way that he's

38:18

been playing because he's been fantastic too, but it's

38:20

just like it's a lesser of two evils right

38:22

like it just it feels

38:24

like they They

38:28

need to do more If

38:30

they are going to be setting these high screens for

38:32

ant and dallas is going to stay kind of You

38:35

know guarding it the way they are like let's

38:37

do what dallas is doing and move that screen

38:39

up a little bit higher You know what? I

38:41

mean and just like try to actually

38:46

Get him ahead of steam a little bit higher up on

38:48

the floor And see what

38:50

that looks like when he's getting into the lane At

38:53

a little higher mph than he is whenever

38:55

he's whenever you're setting it at the

38:57

at just above the three-point line You know

39:00

what I mean like they're trying to do whatever you can

39:03

You know angles wise to get him in

39:05

space um Yeah,

39:08

it's uh But

39:10

you know that that i'm a philistine so

39:12

I don't know. I mean what it Like

39:15

when you're watching it and they're playing the

39:17

lineups that they typically play so like take

39:19

sort of take out the like the

39:22

sexy idea of you know slo-mo

39:24

coming in and you know them

39:26

playing super duper small Or

39:28

putting knots at the five or whatever and just running

39:31

and trying to surround them with some a

39:33

little bit more shooting Like what if they're

39:35

just sort of playing the lineups they

39:37

typically play do you see any kind of

39:39

lever that can be pulled? No,

39:42

just kind of what I mentioned before about maybe

39:44

getting ant Some space there.

39:46

I mean, I I think you're right though I

39:48

think this is more just marginal improvements than any

39:50

sort of wholesale change because I I

39:52

do feel like the wolves were built To

39:55

play to their strength, which is their size

39:57

their defense and ant, you know

40:00

And so to a certain extent, you kind of

40:02

are who you are. And like to almost disrupt

40:04

that is a sense of desperation that I'm not

40:06

sure you can actually trigger because they

40:08

were right in all of these games. It was a couple

40:10

of plays here and there to really do it. And so

40:13

if anything, like the most concerning part is

40:15

that their defense, which has

40:17

been the backbone of everything that they've done

40:19

this entire season, just as looking

40:22

as helpless as it did at times against Luca.

40:24

And so I wonder if

40:26

the ultimate like answer to everything that we're

40:28

talking about right now is that Luca is

40:30

just playing on another level.

40:32

And honestly, throughout these games,

40:34

I just keep thinking back to the

40:36

trade deadline and just like how much

40:38

consternation we had, everyone had about like

40:41

trading all these picks just to get a bunch of

40:43

guys. Apparently the way to win

40:46

with Luca Donchest is just to have a

40:48

nine or so deep team to

40:50

the point where like XM and some of these

40:52

guys they're playing this entire season aren't getting

40:54

on the floor. It's just like, just give Luca

40:56

guys enough guys to play and give him a

40:59

chance. And this guy will make magic happen.

41:01

I think that might be the big takeaway from

41:03

the series in these games even. If

41:06

it's somebody springy who can set a

41:08

screen and go catch some lobs and

41:10

then protect the rim on the other

41:12

end, yeah, I mean, I'm not sure what

41:14

else you could want from a, I

41:17

mean, I know the mabs are missing and having

41:19

that cleaver card to play in some of these

41:21

situations when they wanna space the floor a little

41:23

bit more, certainly I'm sure they would like

41:25

to have him. And who knows? I mean,

41:27

maybe they will this series. I

41:29

don't know. But it

41:32

does feel like one of those things where he

41:36

has figured out like the

41:38

new guys to

41:42

the point where they don't feel new anymore at

41:44

all. You know what I mean? Like there's just

41:46

no, there's no hitch in the giddy up

41:48

now. And those guys now

41:52

know when to be ready for

41:55

some of these crazy Luca passes and our

41:57

game to actually go get them. You

42:01

know, the Gafford catch and

42:03

finish tonight off that baseball pass after

42:05

he blocks that that Connelly

42:07

three on the other end

42:11

to go catch that and finish that

42:13

scoop falling down just

42:16

fully extended to see a

42:18

center do that and just Larry

42:21

Fitzgerald the ball away from whoever the defender

42:23

was was pretty nuts. And

42:25

that's you know it's that

42:28

that kind of functional athleticism like being

42:30

able to actually make plays in the

42:32

air like God bless Dwight

42:34

Powell and Cleaver for that matter but they're

42:37

not gonna be able to go do things

42:39

like that. Like when you see Gafford and

42:41

Lively just call

42:44

ass to these rebounds you know what I

42:46

mean? Just like it's it I

42:49

think I think part of that is you

42:52

know if you're the if you're

42:54

a wolves fan you're hoping somehow to

42:56

try to kind of use that activity

42:58

against them in some way if they

43:00

are constantly crashing if we can get

43:03

a rebound and get it to ant

43:05

or someone else who can get going

43:07

downhill in a hurry and we can

43:09

attack the rim for you know

43:11

one of the springy dudes gets back down to the other

43:14

end of the floor I think that's what you hope for

43:16

but yeah I mean right now

43:18

it's just Dallas

43:21

has felt like not

43:23

just the more physical team but

43:25

also just the more they're

43:30

more present like they feel like they like they just

43:32

feel like they they feel like they know what to

43:34

do a little bit more than the

43:36

wolves do right now you know what I mean? There's

43:38

just there's there's just a little less

43:42

offensive chaos out there in these late

43:45

clock situations and

43:48

yeah it's you realize

43:50

how much faith you have gonna team

43:53

Scott Luca and Kyrie in the backcourt when

43:56

you need someone to go create a shot I mean it's

43:58

just it's a it's an embarrassing Richmond or

44:00

Richmond for the emergency. Yeah. Turns

44:02

out what you need around Luca are

44:05

just guys with size, guys with athleticism,

44:07

and guys who know how to take

44:09

absolute paratement. The

44:12

amount of like high fives that get doled

44:14

out as Luca is just in full psycho

44:16

mode, like yelling at the ref or maybe

44:19

even yelling at them, like, yeah,

44:21

I am a piece of shit. Let's go, man. It

44:24

takes like the right amount of

44:26

humility, but also basketball ability to

44:28

be a Luca teammate that clearly

44:31

Grant Williams does not have, but

44:33

it looks like these guys do. No,

44:35

Grant Williams did not possess the

44:38

gift of levity required to last

44:40

in that. I

44:44

mean, I

44:46

got to see Luca play a couple times in

44:49

the last round in person. And

44:52

I think one

44:54

of the reasons he's so tired is because he doesn't

44:56

shut up the whole game. Unbelievable.

44:59

I've tried to go for a run

45:01

before with someone who wants to talk.

45:04

I can't do that. This is awesome. I

45:06

agree. It's

45:08

a miracle for me that I'm here. You know what I

45:10

mean? Like, I don't want to talk. I just, just let

45:12

me, let me sweat. Luca

45:15

is carrying on 20 different

45:18

conversations at once with different

45:21

teammates, the other team, different

45:24

fans. It's like,

45:26

I get it why he's so exhausted.

45:29

Yeah. It's

45:31

unbelievable. I was starting to put together

45:34

like the biggest jerk in the NBA

45:36

sort of list, but I

45:38

figure maybe not the time for it

45:40

and also I'm worried that he might find

45:42

it and like just scream bloody murder at

45:44

me as well. So it was so incredible

45:47

tonight. I mean, like tonight is when, is

45:51

when like all

45:53

that whining, you just set it aside. You

45:56

know what I mean? You're like, okay, this is like,

45:58

this is why you are so awesome. sometimes

46:00

because you are just, you

46:03

have no conscience and you're going for

46:05

the throat every time. And

46:08

guys like that who actually will

46:10

take the game on their shoulders and

46:13

show up are just,

46:16

there's not a ton of them, you know,

46:18

right now. And Luca

46:20

is just for all of his faults, which

46:23

there are many in terms of

46:25

how he deals with his teammates and

46:27

the officials and people's

46:30

time and patience. But

46:34

just like what a stone

46:36

cold assassin. Going

46:40

for the throat, whether it is a

46:42

step back to win game two of

46:44

the Western Conference Finals or a benign

46:46

no call like late in the

46:48

second quarter, then literally nobody remembered as soon

46:50

as the play was over. So at least

46:52

there's consistency there. Probably caring

46:55

about both of them about the same.

46:57

Exactly. I guess that's what makes them great.

47:00

Alright, let's flip quickly

47:03

to the East Finals now. A

47:06

series with literally not even

47:09

like 75% of the juice of

47:11

the series, unfortunately, especially with

47:13

Tyrese Halliburton seemingly out. We only know that

47:15

he's questionable as we're recording this Friday night

47:18

with that Sora left hammy. I

47:22

guess first and foremost, any hope here

47:25

for our friends in India, like maybe

47:27

a game where Pascal Siakam

47:29

and the crowd and TJ McConnell just

47:31

like kind of just have enough of

47:33

that cocktail of energy and like grit

47:35

that they steal one game. You

47:39

know, crazy things happen. I've

47:41

watched enough heat games to see, you

47:43

know, every now and again, you

47:46

know, the role

47:49

players lose their minds and become stars

47:52

for a moment. Especially

47:54

with Siakam playing as well as he's been playing. I

47:57

mean, I could believe it. I

48:02

would not bet a significant amount of money

48:04

on it. I mean, they're gonna

48:06

come with energy, they're gonna play hard, that place

48:08

is gonna be rocking. And certainly,

48:13

offensively, they've

48:16

got plenty of dudes that can get

48:19

very hot and for a night

48:22

become a nightmare.

48:24

You know what I mean? But

48:28

it does feel like with it being

48:30

Halliburton, who is just the

48:32

key to making all of that

48:35

hum how it's supposed to, you

48:39

don't feel good about where they're at.

48:43

Yeah, it's tough. Outside

48:45

of maybe a stolen game here, it does

48:47

feel like things are over. I think at

48:49

this point, the thing I'm looking for

48:52

most in this series is just to see more

48:54

experimentation from our friend Joe Mazzullo. The

48:57

O'Shea percent minutes, I feel like there

48:59

needs a parade, like a duck boat

49:01

parade just for that happening because I

49:03

think everyone plugged into this series, whether

49:05

in Boston or just watching from afar

49:07

is like, hallelujah. Let's

49:10

just try this because you have the optimal roster

49:12

for it. And honestly, I think you need to

49:15

start thinking ahead a little bit to the West

49:17

Finals, where it's like,

49:19

that would be pretty good, especially with these

49:21

teams that are loaded up on size and

49:23

you're not sure if Chris Dobbs is there. I'm

49:26

like, I'm getting really worried about Luca with

49:28

Al Horford on a switch. If you think

49:31

Gobert was on skates, just wait

49:33

until Horford is in the

49:35

same situation or God forbid, Luke Cornett. You

49:38

need a little bit more flexibility there. And so if

49:40

we could see a little bit more pizzazz from

49:42

our guy, Joe, that'd be nice. Yeah,

49:45

Cornett's Eclipse feels like it's

49:47

not quite enough for the

49:50

Luca Kairi backwards to do too

49:52

much damage. Yeah, I was

49:54

so excited when... sets

50:00

showed up because it just

50:02

felt like it gave the offense more

50:04

personality. You know what I mean? There's just,

50:08

you felt them kind of diversifying

50:10

a little bit, getting a little bit more life

50:12

into things. And like you say, I think it

50:14

just gives you optionality. Now for sure is the

50:16

time to play. Like you've got to, you

50:19

know, I, I think they've got

50:21

to, they're not play. That's not right,

50:23

but not play, but like it's, it's, it's, it's

50:27

the, the, the move was successful enough to

50:29

justify trying it again, you know what I

50:31

mean? And like seeing if there's more there

50:34

because like optionality

50:36

is king in the playoffs and

50:40

giving yourself possibilities

50:42

is what they should be

50:45

focused on aside from winning, right?

50:47

Like if, if you can, if you can, um,

50:52

if, if for Zingas does come back and

50:54

you've gotten Brissette some valuable

50:57

minutes here in these, uh,

51:00

crucial games, it's huge for

51:02

the team in the finals, if

51:04

he's called into duty and so it's, um,

51:06

no, I would love,

51:09

I would love to see them, them, you

51:11

know, tap that a little bit

51:13

more, like just to give, um,

51:18

I think it, I think it gives Brown

51:21

and like take them a

51:23

little bit of a breather too. Like they, they

51:25

might not have to guard somebody that they're typically

51:27

having to guard. You know what I mean? Like,

51:29

it's like, it, it, it, it eases things up

51:31

for them in a way that they, uh, don't

51:36

always have. And so it, it, yeah,

51:39

I like the, why not

51:41

try it again? You know what I mean? Like I

51:43

just, it just, it seems like it's worth giving

51:46

another world. Yeah. In

51:48

some ways it seems counter to

51:50

the way Missoula thinks his

51:52

team should be. Like what is the

51:54

strength of his team? But in a

51:56

weird way, it almost feels like the

51:59

Pacers are showing. like what a

52:01

perimeter oriented team can feel like

52:03

where there's just so much flow

52:05

and athleticism and speed

52:07

where it's like that can just clearly

52:09

be an advantage You don't have to

52:12

strike a balance especially against an opponent

52:14

where you're really just trying to keep

52:16

up and attract me, right? And I

52:18

also almost wonder if it spurs the

52:20

physicality that they've lacked at

52:22

many times in this postseason Not

52:25

only on offense just getting tatum maybe a little

52:27

bit more space to get downhill But

52:30

also physically defensively where it feels

52:32

like those guys being smaller almost

52:35

clicks in like the Competitive edge it

52:37

feels like they need to play bigger

52:39

because they're giving away some size and

52:42

so I almost wonder if that in a way like locks

52:45

them into their ideal state, but

52:48

Who knows? No, that's

52:50

a that's That's

52:52

an interesting thing to think about it does

52:54

make it does make them it requires them

52:56

to scramble a little bit more than they

52:58

would have to otherwise and like

53:00

it it it it did just

53:03

feel like the energy kicked up a little bit, right like

53:05

in yeah maybe it's

53:07

maybe it is minuscule enough to that we're

53:10

just like It

53:13

doesn't feel like we're nitpicking it does feel like

53:15

there's something to like poke at there and see

53:18

like okay like what? Let's

53:20

let's give this a chance to be

53:23

successful. You know, let's let's

53:27

Put a little sunlight and water here and see what

53:29

happens like it just doesn't it

53:34

When you're watching we're set out there like it's

53:36

not some situation where you're watching somebody who doesn't know where

53:39

to go you know what I mean like the the the

53:43

the vibe still felt right offensively

53:45

and defensively, and so I

53:47

don't I don't think it's some situation where

53:49

it's The

53:51

Celtics have like it that defensive culture

53:54

is so Set in stone

53:56

and it's so what Missoula is about like I

53:58

don't think there's some I

54:01

don't think they have to worry about losing

54:03

their tough

54:06

physical sort of identity that

54:08

they've established on the defensive end

54:11

just because they're playing somebody that's a little bit smaller. You know

54:13

what I mean? It's like, it's also not

54:15

like to bring the Jose Alvarado out there,

54:18

right? Like it's like, Recette's got some

54:20

size. Well, let me ask you this, because

54:22

I do think it's like an interesting time to

54:24

maybe, if we don't see Halliburton again

54:27

in this series, and who knows whether this could be

54:29

David by the time you listen to this podcast, but

54:31

like, how are we feeling

54:33

about Halliburton in general, this

54:35

postseason? I know like on the one hand, you

54:38

could write some of it off to the injury.

54:40

Clearly, he wasn't right most of the second half

54:42

of the season, actually, probably since the new year.

54:45

And this new

54:47

injury or the

54:49

resurgence of this injury, I wonder,

54:51

almost gets credence to that. Like he wasn't

54:53

right, ultimately, but we have seen times where

54:55

he just hasn't seemed like he's had it.

54:58

And the way that I think a lot of

55:00

people thought he was, I think the trajectory, like

55:02

people were ready for him to launch as a

55:04

superstar. And it feels like this has stilted to

55:06

a certain degree. Do you think about Halliburton any

55:08

differently here? Or is this maybe

55:10

just as similar as an ant situation where it's

55:13

like young player, first postseason, figuring things out? Yeah,

55:16

that's I think

55:19

it's I think it's similar to the ant situation.

55:21

And I do tend to want to give him

55:23

the benefit of the doubt that that,

55:28

you know, maybe it did it

55:30

did just take that long for him to get right

55:33

physically. And then we saw him, you

55:35

know, close

55:38

to 100 percent there for a minute and

55:40

things looked very right. And then,

55:42

you know, the hammy goes down again. And so

55:44

it's it's it's dark

55:46

times. It the

55:49

one thing that keeps me from

55:51

just fully wrapping my arms around

55:54

Halliburton as, you

55:56

know, a face

55:59

of the frame. franchise monster kind of guy

56:01

is just that You you

56:04

are giving up so much on the defensive in there

56:06

that there isn't more fight there

56:09

It feels like you're going to limit maybe

56:11

what the team can become

56:15

especially if you're not Shoring

56:19

up things with the role

56:21

players and that hasn't seemed

56:23

to be a priority yet as far on the defensive

56:25

side of them all and so it I

56:27

I Because

56:31

he's such a negative on that end. It's

56:33

hard to get Hyper

56:37

pumped up about him being like an a a

56:39

one dude long term I mean, I think he's

56:41

a great great player and all-star all-in be a

56:43

caliber all those things and is One

56:46

of my favorite dudes to watch but just

56:48

in that he does Leave

56:52

some things on the table and you you can build

56:54

around some of these, you know super

56:57

duper offensive guards and and and Make

57:00

it a long way and and you know Steph

57:02

wasn't a dud defensively He also wasn't some great

57:04

big positive either and the Warriors found out a

57:06

way to make it work but

57:09

you know you fear kind of the the Damon

57:13

Portland kind of thing

57:15

where it's this big-time Offensive

57:19

monster and a guy

57:21

who is so much fun to watch but

57:24

you can never quite Put

57:27

a what feels like a real deal contender

57:29

around them because the point of attack defense never

57:31

gets to where it's supposed to be or

57:34

People just start hunting you

57:36

over and over and over, you know what I

57:38

mean? So I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned game

57:40

though Because I was looking at our ringer top

57:43

100 before this and we have

57:45

Halliburton 17th, right and

57:47

these are the guards we have ahead of him.

57:49

It's Luca SGA staff Brunson

57:51

and Booker I Did

57:54

spare right all those guys all about them behind

57:56

him as of right now and this was I

57:58

think we last ranked them the end

58:00

of the regular season, so nothing since

58:02

the playoffs. It's Murray Mitchell Fox Brown,

58:05

Dame, Kyrie Jha. And so obviously

58:07

the Kyrie one looks quite bad right now. I'm

58:09

sure that will change by the end of the

58:11

postseason. But like, I think the Dame comp is

58:13

interesting because the one thing that I've noticed the

58:16

most from Halliburton, in addition to the defensive stuff

58:18

that you're bringing up is how much he

58:21

floats backwards as opposed to

58:23

going forward. And so if he's

58:25

not going to drive the action,

58:27

get to the rim or create

58:29

shots for others, the three ball

58:31

has to be historic, Dame's depth

58:33

level. Right. And the fact that

58:35

that's not there. I wonder if he's kind of

58:37

stuck in that middle ground where it's like you

58:39

either go need to go down or back

58:42

and up. So like

58:45

one of those has to be elite for him

58:47

to keep making those next steps. Now, I will

58:49

say like full training camp with Siakam,

58:51

Mathrin in there. All these things will help

58:54

develop what they're doing there. And I can't

58:56

imagine the Pacers will be any lower than

58:58

six next year, even with the East looking

59:01

like it might be rebounding at the top.

59:03

But here's Jarrus Walker will make an appearance

59:05

at some point like there's for another team

59:07

for the magic. The

59:11

it do when you're. The

59:15

one I mean, the one thing that feels

59:17

unfair with. My

59:20

damn thing is that. Halliburton's

59:23

way, way, way better to playmaker

59:26

and passer than totally. I think that

59:28

I think Dame at Dame's peak like

59:31

Dame was. I think Halliburton's

59:33

more of an assist man than a scorer. I think

59:36

part of the problem sometimes is he doesn't know when

59:38

to balance that. And it feels like. Sometimes

59:41

he needs to put the pedal down a little

59:43

bit more and be a little bit more aggressive

59:45

offensively than he is comfortable

59:48

with yet. And then you

59:50

have some of these situations where he does just dribble

59:52

the ball off his knee out of bounds or whatever.

59:54

Like some of those moments felt a little bit like

59:57

the Chris Paul and the Clippers and.

1:00:00

2014 against the Thunder where you're just like this is a guy

1:00:02

who I'm so happy when he

1:00:04

has the ball

1:00:07

he's Locksmith you're

1:00:09

not getting it from him, you know for 99

1:00:12

times out of 100, but for some reason

1:00:15

these huge moments there are these weird little

1:00:18

yips and Turnovers that

1:00:21

don't fit the player exactly what they

1:00:23

happen You know what I mean and

1:00:25

how the Halliburton haven't Having

1:00:27

a few of those in game one was just it

1:00:29

was it was Notable,

1:00:33

you know, it was just like a little bit of the

1:00:35

like Oh, man I wish this hadn't you know Like you

1:00:37

want to just you want the young

1:00:39

guys to meet the moment fully and just like

1:00:41

be ready for the lights completely And that's just

1:00:43

completely Unreasonable. Yeah,

1:00:45

but but yeah it it where

1:00:48

like where are you Adam? What do you what are your

1:00:50

thoughts? Uh

1:00:52

Mildly disappointed despite the fact that we know

1:00:54

that we should set the bar Relatively low

1:00:57

the fact that they are in the Eastern

1:00:59

Conference final. Yeah, it feels like we yeah,

1:01:01

that's a good Yeah, it feels like they're

1:01:03

we might that's the problem with the Pacers

1:01:05

It's like there's a lot of people complaining

1:01:08

about not giving the Pacers their fair chef

1:01:10

or sure fair shake but it's

1:01:12

like Until they actually made

1:01:14

the Eastern Conference finals. I'm not sure

1:01:16

anybody outside of Recarls locker

1:01:18

room really thought that they were gonna make

1:01:20

the Eastern Conference finals And so it's like

1:01:22

it's hard to really calibrate on the fly

1:01:24

like this, but clearly

1:01:27

they're exceeding expectations I

1:01:30

just it'd be nice if some of

1:01:32

the dispositional things that you're referring to Like

1:01:35

weren't there like if it's a very

1:01:37

least you have that ant level take the game

1:01:39

by the throat Even if the results weren't behind

1:01:41

it and also just like the floating Out

1:01:44

past the the three-point arc almost toward

1:01:46

them The mid core and like

1:01:48

the carries like on some some of the

1:01:50

the clips if you look a little too

1:01:52

deeply It's just it just feels off. It

1:01:55

does feel like for sure that

1:01:57

the Celtics have made him

1:01:59

bump up again against his current ceiling, you know

1:02:01

what I mean? Like, they're like, he's,

1:02:04

he needs to get to another level as

1:02:08

a ball handler, I think, in order to

1:02:10

be able to fully unlock,

1:02:13

to be able to get consistent kind of

1:02:15

space on some of these step

1:02:17

backs that like you're saying, he's gonna have to, if he's

1:02:19

not gonna be a guy who's gonna be getting stuff going to

1:02:21

the rim and getting a lot of free throws and stuff

1:02:23

like that, if he is gonna kind of settle into a bombs

1:02:26

away kind of dude, you know what I mean? Like

1:02:29

then, all

1:02:31

that stuff has to get, the more that

1:02:33

stuff gets tightened, the more space he can

1:02:36

get and inches or everything

1:02:38

in these playoff games, you

1:02:41

know, we saw that with

1:02:43

the Dallas Thunder Series with them, you

1:02:45

know, the situations where it

1:02:47

feels like the Thunder are just a little

1:02:49

bit too slow to get

1:02:52

a three off and it's not there anymore, you know what

1:02:54

I mean? Like there's some of, there's some

1:02:56

of that with him, but

1:02:59

it also feels like what the hell are

1:03:01

we talking about? Halliburton's a great player, he's been hurt, like

1:03:04

shut the hell up you guys, you know

1:03:06

what I mean? Like I totally would understand

1:03:08

that, but yeah, I think you just wanna

1:03:10

see just like, and

1:03:13

he has been better defensively, I think he just wanna

1:03:15

see like, I wish that there

1:03:19

was a little bit more effort, like

1:03:21

don't die on so many screens, you

1:03:23

know what I mean? Just like, don't

1:03:27

be so pumped up to give up a switch,

1:03:29

like, you know what I mean? There's, that doesn't

1:03:31

feel like it's too much to ask, somebody who

1:03:35

is a great player and, you know,

1:03:38

clearly wants to be one of those

1:03:40

dudes, right? Like it's, it

1:03:42

feels like we're moving to a place where these

1:03:45

guys that are, unless you're just

1:03:47

unbelievable offensively, unless you're just a

1:03:49

freak of nature offensively from a

1:03:51

scoring perspective, it

1:03:53

feels like we're getting to a spot

1:03:56

where unless you can guard somebody, you

1:03:58

know, like. There's

1:04:00

somebody else that deserves flowers before you if

1:04:03

that makes sense. Yeah All

1:04:06

right, why don't we wrap it there? Reminder

1:04:09

the wringer is doing a live

1:04:12

show wringer NBA show June 18th

1:04:14

I have to ring

1:04:16

your residency at the El Rey theater

1:04:18

if your ticket the wringer comm slash

1:04:20

events We'll be back tomorrow. I

1:04:22

believe a crew chat on the ring room an NBA

1:04:24

show feed Thank you to

1:04:26

Ben Cruz on production. Thank you to Jack

1:04:28

Wilson We will see you

1:04:31

next time