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us next time on Plant Killers. Tonight

0:35

on The Readout. And

0:38

I was becoming increasingly concerned that

0:42

we were damaging,

0:46

we were damaging his legacy. What did

0:48

the president say in response to what you

0:50

just described? He said

0:53

something along the lines of, you

0:58

know, nobody will care about my legacy

1:00

if I lose.

1:05

So that won't matter. Hope

1:09

Hicks revealing that conversation to the

1:11

January 6th committee. Now she

1:14

has a chance to add to Trump's

1:16

corrupt legacy, testifying today in his criminal

1:18

trial in New York. Also

1:20

tonight, the political fallout from the campus

1:22

protest and why it's time to start

1:24

focusing again on what's actually

1:26

happening in Gaza. And Kristi

1:28

Noem would prefer to let sleeping dogs

1:31

lie. But sadly, she killed the

1:33

dog. And now a bunch of

1:35

lies are being exposed in

1:37

Noem's new book. But

1:43

we begin tonight with a blast

1:45

from Donald Trump's past. Hope Hicks,

1:47

the former Greenwich Connecticut model turned

1:49

White House advisor. Hicks,

1:52

who has not seen Trump in

1:54

nearly two years since she testified

1:56

about the insurrection her former boss

1:58

incited, acknowledged that she was nervous

2:00

and was visibly so. And

2:02

for good reason. It's the first time

2:04

the outside world got a window into her

2:06

and Trump's intimate working relationship.

2:09

She, as the campaign press secretary, was a

2:11

key player in the 2016 Trump

2:14

campaign and eventual administration.

2:17

Unlike Rona Graff, Trump's personal

2:20

secretary, who testified last week, Hope

2:22

Hicks paid for her own lawyers.

2:24

Which might explain why she seemed

2:26

free to detail at great length the

2:29

inner workings of the 2016 campaign.

2:31

Who had access to Trump? What

2:33

kind of micromanager Trump was? And

2:36

what was happening in the final

2:38

month that could possibly motivate the

2:40

campaign to hide any salacious stories

2:42

about Trump cheating on his third

2:44

wife while she was pregnant? And

2:48

key there is the Access Hollywood

2:50

tape. Before prosecutors

2:52

got to the infamous Grab Them tape,

2:55

Hicks explained what she did for

2:57

Trump and how she and Mr. Trump

2:59

spoke every day. She also

3:01

testified that he was very involved in

3:03

the media strategy. According to Hope, he knew

3:05

what he wanted to say and how he

3:07

wanted to say it. We were just following

3:10

his lead. She went on to

3:12

say that she would run statements by Trump, especially if

3:14

they were about him. And this

3:16

is important because the prosecution is having

3:18

one of Trump's closest aides tell the

3:21

jury that basically nothing happened in the

3:23

campaign without Trump's approval. Nothing. And

3:26

then came to this October sentence bombshell.

3:50

Prosecutor Matthew Colangelo asked Hicks if Trump

3:52

was upset about the release of the

3:54

tape. Hicks testified that there was a

3:57

sense that it was concerning and that

3:59

she knew it was going to be a massive

4:01

story, adding, there was consensus among

4:03

us all that the tape was

4:05

damaging and that this was going

4:07

to be a crisis. This

4:10

triggered the campaign to descend into full

4:12

damage control mode, only a few

4:14

days before the second presidential debate

4:16

with Hillary Clinton. The

4:18

situation escalated when weeks later, the

4:21

Wall Street Journal reached out to the campaign

4:23

about an article they were publishing about

4:25

a payment to an alleged mistress,

4:27

Karen McDougal and a casual fling,

4:29

Stormy Daniels. Trump sat

4:32

expressionless at the defendant's table during Hicks' testimony,

4:34

watching her on one of the monitors in

4:36

the courtroom, even though she was just a

4:39

few feet away from him. Colangelo

4:41

asked Hicks if Trump had any concerns

4:44

about how these stories could affect his

4:46

standing with voters. Hicks said yes.

4:49

He asked her what the response to the Wall

4:51

Street Journal article was, and she testified that Trump

4:53

saw it as an issue for

4:55

the campaign, telling Colangelo, quote, Trump

4:57

was concerned about the story. He was

4:59

concerned about how it would be viewed by his

5:02

wife, and he wanted me to make sure the

5:04

newspapers weren't delivered to their residents that morning. Everything

5:07

we talked about in the context of

5:09

this time period and this timeframe was

5:11

about whether or not there was an

5:13

impact on the campaign. Trump

5:16

wanted to know how is it playing, and to

5:18

her that meant how is it playing with voters.

5:21

She also explained that Jared Kushner, who

5:23

was very close to Rupert Murdoch and working

5:25

on the campaign, tried to kill the story.

5:27

It didn't work. Once elected,

5:29

the story continued to be a source of

5:32

concern for the then president and Hicks, who

5:34

was now the director of strategic

5:36

communication for his administration, was up

5:39

for his administration. The prosecution was able to

5:41

get her to confirm that Trump admitted to

5:43

her while they were in the Oval Office

5:45

that Michael Cohen did a good thing for

5:48

the campaign by paying Stormy Daniels. She

5:51

also asked Hicks to describe what her

5:53

former boss told her during that conversation

5:55

about Cohen in February of 2018, which

5:57

was right after Cohen told the

6:00

New York Times that he had

6:02

paid the $130,000 out of his own pocket. Hicks

6:07

said Trump told her that Cohen said

6:09

he felt like it was his job

6:11

to protect him, and that's what he

6:13

was doing, and he did it out of the kindness of

6:15

his own heart, and he never told anybody

6:17

about it. But in response

6:20

to a prosecution follow-up, Hicks conceded that such

6:22

an act, quote, would be out of

6:24

character for Michael. I didn't know

6:26

Michael to be an especially charitable person

6:28

or selfless person. He is a

6:30

kind of person who seeks credit. Hicks

6:33

said that Trump believed the decision to bury the

6:35

story before the election was prudent at the

6:37

time. Mr. Trump's opinion was

6:39

that it was better to be dealing with it

6:42

now and would have been bad to have that

6:44

story come out before the election. As

6:47

Trump's attorney Emil Bovee began to cross-examine

6:49

her, Hicks began to cry. She

6:52

appeared to start crying when Bovee brought up

6:54

the fact that the Trump family gave her

6:56

work opportunities. Once she

6:58

gathered herself, she testified that Trump didn't

7:01

want his family to be embarrassed by

7:03

anything that happened during the campaign. Joining

7:06

me now is Lisa Rubin, MSNBC legal correspondent

7:08

and George Conway, conservative attorney

7:10

and contributing writer for The

7:12

Atlantic. Tell me what

7:15

I missed in that rundown, Lisa Rubin. What

7:17

else happened today with Hope Hicks? Pretty important

7:19

witness on the stand. An incredibly

7:21

important witness, Joy. And I think part

7:23

of what she did was just situate

7:25

us into how much the campaign was

7:28

in a period of full-scale meltdown from

7:31

the moment she got an email from

7:33

the Wall Street Journal explaining, I'm sorry, from

7:36

the moment she got an email from the

7:38

Washington Post explaining that they were about to

7:40

publish the Access Hollywood tape until

7:43

the election itself. It

7:45

was accusation upon accusation upon

7:47

accusation. And the Access Hollywood tape was

7:50

closely followed by more women coming out

7:52

of the woodwork who were neither Karen

7:54

McDougal nor Stormy Daniels, but had claims

7:57

against then candidate

8:00

Trump. And so she sort of took

8:02

us through what it was like to

8:04

be crisscrossing the country with Donald Trump

8:06

at the same time that these stories

8:08

have landed in her inbox. When The

8:11

Washington Post first contacted her about Access

8:13

Hollywood, she said she was in her

8:15

Trump Tower office, immediately went upstairs to

8:17

the 25th floor. That's the executive floor

8:20

there, where Donald Trump was preparing for

8:22

his debate with Hillary Clinton, surrounded by

8:24

the senior leadership of the campaign. And

8:26

similarly, when the Wall Street Journal notified

8:29

her about the Stormy Daniels and

8:31

Karen McDougal story that came out on

8:33

November 4th, where was she? She was

8:35

on the tarmac in Ohio as Trump

8:38

was about to go out and have

8:40

a rally in an airplane hangar. So

8:42

all of the stress of that period

8:45

and how much Trump was fighting to

8:47

preserve his standing with voters came out

8:49

today through Hope Hicks. She was the

8:51

campaign witness that we knew would come

8:54

at some point during this trial. And

8:56

also somebody who personally seemed to have

8:58

been deceived by and disappointed by Donald

9:00

Trump time and time again, which I think

9:03

contributed to the breakdown we saw on the

9:05

stand. George Conway,

9:07

you know, having worked on a couple of campaigns in the

9:09

press office, I mean, in the press, I mean, you

9:11

get the calls come to you. So this is an interesting

9:13

part of the testimony today. And she's asked, what did

9:15

you first hear the name, Karen McDougal, November 4, 2016?

9:18

In what context? I received an inquiry from a reporter

9:20

at the Wall Street Journal asking questions about her and

9:22

the National Enquirer, who's the reporter she names are Michael

9:24

Robfeld. And had you ever heard of somebody named Stormy

9:27

Daniel? She was mentioned in the same story on November

9:29

4. I heard it one other time before that. So

9:31

she's getting this call as the

9:33

top press flack, right, in the Trump campaign,

9:36

which has got to freak her out. The date is

9:38

significant. November 4, 2016 is four days before the

9:40

election. So

9:43

you now have a story coming out that

9:45

would confirm a salacious

9:47

story about Donald Trump's relationships with two women,

9:50

one of whom was Stormy Daniels, one of

9:52

whom was Karen McDougal. But in the context,

9:54

as Lisa said, of all these other women

9:56

Backing up the Access Hollywood tape that came

9:58

out in October 2016. which he also

10:00

had a deal with rice. And he's running

10:03

against a woman. In

10:05

an election in which he is

10:08

being portrayed as a misogynist. And

10:10

his feet of his odds is even to the woman is

10:12

running against. That is

10:14

context as important, right? Because this the timing

10:16

is that if the election. Was literally happening

10:18

around the corner while you were quarterly. What did

10:20

you see? Why? Wasn't I

10:23

flew courthouse and court Tuesday or I

10:25

will say about it was vitally important

10:27

testimony. I mean because I mean it

10:29

shows what the motivation was and and

10:31

you know that there's always talk every

10:33

every four years about will there be

10:36

in October Surprise. You don't know what

10:38

it is because it's a surprise and

10:40

here we already knew what it could

10:42

be and whether and and people were

10:44

worried like will area anymore will any

10:47

more come out and it's just I

10:49

mean as as Hicks testified today of

10:51

the book, the initial. Release of the

10:53

of the scans of the missile trigger the

10:56

scandal which was the It's Access Hollywood tapes.

10:58

Basically. Produce. Three or four days

11:00

of absolute non stop coverage of Trump

11:02

and women and women coming out. The

11:04

talk about hints and you know it,

11:06

even get it. even. Clips

11:09

the news of of up category

11:11

for a category five hurricane or

11:13

someplace and it was mb Those

11:15

are just remarkable times and I

11:17

i i cannot is it's impossible

11:19

to imagine that sucks but the

11:21

concern wasn't for enormous at at

11:23

at another story coming out because

11:25

you know his his campaign seem

11:27

to be teetering on the edge

11:29

after the Access Hollywood Hollywood said.

11:32

These are some of the tweet from Donald Trump

11:34

in October Twenty sixteen Holiday For people with get

11:36

there, anything about Trump is in a memory hole.

11:38

I think people just don't remember any of it's

11:41

still have this week. Three found Melson or John

11:43

Mccain big for my support during the primaries See:

11:45

one that he dropped to me over locker room

11:47

or marxism or they're talking locker and talks. Nothing

11:49

ever happen with any of these women. Totally made

11:52

up nonsense to the Alexis or to see the

11:54

over election interference polls close. But you can believe

11:56

I lost large numbers of women voters based on made

11:58

up of is that never happened Media ringing. election.

12:00

Can't believe these totally phony stories.

12:02

Republican reactions, role calls. Paul

12:05

Ryan was sickened. Mitch McConnell called the remarks

12:07

repugnant. Political, Mitt Romney, Trump's comments demean our

12:09

wives and daughters and corrupt America's face to

12:12

the world. Political, RNC chair, Reince Priebus condemns

12:14

Trump. No woman should ever be described in

12:16

these terms and talked about in this manner

12:18

ever. Three dozen Republicans have now called for

12:20

Trump to drop out. Lisa Rubin. So

12:22

the urgency of this, I think, is important because

12:25

we're not talking about Donald Trump in a vacuum

12:27

and be all the stuff about worrying about his

12:29

wife, feels like it's overwhelmed by this. Was that

12:31

brought up in court today? Just these scramble that

12:34

was happening in that final week? Absolutely

12:36

was brought up in court. And Joy, I

12:38

want to say something about the concern about

12:40

the family versus the concern about the campaign,

12:43

because I don't think it's an either or.

12:45

It can be a both and, so long

12:47

as prosecutors convince the jury that the preeminent

12:49

point of concern for Donald Trump was the

12:52

campaign first and then the effect on his

12:54

family. And I don't think Hopix took away from

12:56

that. When she said that Trump, for example, the

12:58

night of November 4th, as

13:00

they're driving back, says to her, I

13:02

want to make sure the Wall Street

13:04

Journal doesn't show up on my doorstep

13:06

tomorrow, that doesn't undermine the fact that

13:09

his concern was first in form of

13:11

the campaign as demonstrated by that conversation

13:13

they have in March of 2018 when

13:16

he tries to spin her on Michael

13:18

Cohen's own coming forward in the New

13:20

York Times and says, Michael Cohen did

13:22

this because he really wanted to

13:24

protect me against false accusations. He

13:27

did this out of the goodness of

13:29

his heart, which she said she knew

13:31

at the time was just not true.

13:33

It didn't ring true to her own experience.

13:35

And then when Trump is musing aloud,

13:37

would it have been better if this

13:39

had come out at the time or

13:41

now? No, it would have been bad

13:43

if this had come out before the

13:45

election. I mean, that is proof positive

13:47

that for Trump, the number one concern

13:49

was improving his chances at electoral victory,

13:51

not preserving his wife's feelings. And to the

13:54

extent that it was about his wife, it

13:56

was to keep her within the camp of

13:58

people helping him win that election. So

14:00

again, not a both, I mean, not an either

14:02

or, but maybe a both and so long as

14:05

one ranks above the other. And

14:08

then here, let's talk about a little bit about

14:10

Michael Cohen. Here's Michael Cohen, a call that

14:12

was between him and Keith Davidson. This

14:14

is a lawyer for both Stormy

14:17

Daniels and Karen McDougall talking about

14:19

the Stormy settlement. Take a listen.

14:21

Nobody's thinking about Michael. But

14:25

despite what, like, for example, you

14:27

know, what the earlier conversation, you

14:29

know, and who else would do

14:32

that for somebody? Who

14:34

else? I

14:36

did because I care about

14:38

the guy. And I

14:40

wasn't going to play Penny

14:44

Wise Pound Foolish. I

14:47

can't even tell you how many times he said

14:49

to me, you know, I hate the fact that

14:52

we did it. And

14:55

my comment to him was, but every

14:57

person that you've spoken to told

15:00

you it was the right move. And

15:02

George, you know, there was another time that

15:04

Davidson recalled a call with Cohen where he

15:06

said that Cohen sounded despondent and depressing, something

15:08

to the effect of, can you effing believe

15:10

I'm not going to Washington after everyone I've

15:12

done for that effing guy? I

15:15

can't believe I'm not going to Washington. I've said that guys, you know,

15:17

are so many times you don't even know. I mean, this

15:20

is a guy who they're trying

15:22

to impeach in advance of him

15:24

doing his testimony. But

15:27

I cannot emphasize enough, George,

15:30

that he heard him saying how passionately

15:32

he was invested in committing a crime

15:34

that he actually went to jail for.

15:37

It's the same crime that we are

15:39

adjudicating in this case. It's just that

15:41

Michael Cohen already went to prison for

15:43

it. And Donald Trump is now on

15:46

trial for being the partner with him

15:48

in this crime. So every time people say, well,

15:50

no one's going to believe Michael Cohen, he's a felon.

15:52

He's a felon because of that. He

15:55

did that. I'll

15:57

raise you one on that because I think. The

16:00

Trump defense and the

16:02

Trump campaign and Donald Trump are making a

16:04

huge mistake in going after

16:06

Michael Cohen the way they have. I mean,

16:08

obviously they feel the need to, it feels

16:11

an emotional need for Donald

16:13

Trump, but it does not really help him

16:15

because the fact of the matter is what

16:17

he was doing that he now fully admits

16:20

and can very consistently in very

16:22

consistent terms was wrong.

16:27

Michael did that for Donald Trump. He

16:29

did that for the benefit of and

16:32

at the direction of Donald Trump

16:34

and every bit of testimony that

16:36

has come out shows that

16:38

Michael Cohen has come clean and is

16:40

telling the truth about that. Now

16:43

they're going to go after him and say, well,

16:45

you submitted this form into the taxi commissioner or

16:47

whatever. They're going to go through all sorts of

16:49

stuff. And it's like, so what? Tell me what

16:51

it is that Michael is lying about on

16:53

this witness stand that relates to this

16:56

case. And they got nothing because

16:58

he's been corroborated by pecker. He's been

17:01

corroborated by his banker. He's been corroborated

17:03

by the text. He's been corroborated by

17:05

the tapes. He recorded of Donald Trump.

17:07

He's been corroborated by OPICS. And yeah,

17:09

you know, there's been stuff in there

17:12

that they that people didn't like dealing

17:14

with Michael. You know, look,

17:17

I've known like 2006. He's

17:20

a hard driving, loud guy, a New Yorker. And

17:22

he was like, you know, he's like a bull

17:24

in a china shop and he's or a dog

17:27

with a bone pick your pick your metaphor. And

17:30

when he goes in a certain direction, you

17:32

know, he doesn't let anything

17:34

get in his way. And he

17:36

did that for Donald Trump because that's why he

17:38

was loyal to Donald Trump. And

17:40

he got screwed for it. And now

17:42

he's owned up to it. And I think, you

17:44

know, if if if Michael Cohen goes on that

17:46

witness stand and just, you know, fails

17:49

and and and just sort of plays

17:52

it straight and doesn't let them get on his

17:54

nerves, the defense, which is, you know, that's going

17:56

to be their tactic, their their tactics are going

17:58

to be what probably will else is tacked

18:00

at the Donald Trump is going to be like,

18:02

provoke him. I don't think he's going to be

18:05

provoked because he's got the truth on his side.

18:07

And I think a lot of

18:09

people are going to be surprised at how good

18:11

a witness Michael was because he was a great

18:13

witness out on Capitol Hill and he

18:15

was a good witness. Judge Ingora

18:18

said he told the truth in the

18:20

civil trial. I

18:23

think the Trump people should actually be pretty

18:26

terrified of Michael Cohen. And this is Michael

18:28

Cohen's chance to set it all straight,

18:31

to set it all straight with Donald Trump. And the

18:33

way he does that is just by going

18:36

with the flow, admitting the

18:38

stuff that he did wrong, and just sticking to

18:40

the facts. And he's a smart enough guy that

18:42

he's going to do that. And I think people

18:44

are going to be surprised by that. I

18:47

volunteer as tribute to be in the courtroom that day because

18:49

Donald Trump will be on the screen instead of looking at

18:51

whole picks. I would like to see whether he's willing to

18:54

man up and look at Michael Cohen in the eye.

18:56

That would be so interesting. Okay, don't go anywhere. Lisa

18:59

Rubin and George Conway are sticking with us for much

19:01

more on the damning testimony today in the first criminal

19:03

trial of a former president. The readout continues after this.

19:10

Here you are. Meet me inside. When

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Jeff and I won't stop. Put

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Planned parenthood.org/future. Back

20:45

with me, Lisa Rubin and George Conway. Lisa, let's talk

20:47

about some of the demeanor in the courtroom. According to

20:49

the great Lawrence O'Donnell who's in court today, when Hope

20:51

Hicks left for the lunch break and

20:54

passed Donald Trump down that long aisle in

20:56

the middle, neither she nor Trump attempted to

20:58

acknowledge each other or make eye contact. There

21:00

is some reporting going back a ways that

21:02

New York Times, in the New York Times,

21:04

their relationship soured since 2022 because she came

21:06

back in 2020 and stayed till the insurrection.

21:09

When text messages emerged during a

21:11

House investigation into his efforts to stay

21:13

in power past his reelection, the messages showed she

21:16

had been critical of him and trying to overthrow

21:18

the government. Does

21:20

that matter? Because I mean, what they've established seeming

21:23

here, I mean, she busts out crying when the defense starts talking

21:25

to her about her relationship with Trump. Like it seems

21:27

to me that the closeness between the two of them is

21:29

going to be hard for the defense to sort of undo

21:31

and mess with her credibility. No, no,

21:33

I think that's absolutely right. And I

21:35

think the defense had to recalculate their

21:37

strategy with her once she did start

21:39

crying. What might have been

21:42

intended as a more difficult cross became

21:44

a very mild mannered and short one

21:46

after that because they didn't want to

21:49

be the people who provoked her to

21:51

be even more emotional after she had

21:53

very credibly told some other stories. And

21:56

part of what made her credible joy

21:58

is that even though she and

22:00

Donald Trump weren't acknowledging each other

22:02

in the present, she clearly still

22:05

has residual past affection for him

22:07

that she is trying to reconcile

22:09

with her experiences of him. She

22:12

talked about, for example, how deeply involved

22:14

he was in his communication strategy and

22:16

that they were all following his lead.

22:18

But the reason she felt that they

22:20

were following his lead was because, as

22:22

she described him, he was sort of

22:24

a marketing and media mastermind who knew

22:26

so much already that they couldn't help,

22:28

but just all fall into line. She

22:31

was very complimentary of how respectful he

22:33

was of her. She had a lot

22:35

of nice things to say about him,

22:37

even though the stories that she told

22:39

based on her recollections will do a

22:41

lot of damage to him overall

22:45

in this case. So I think the interaction

22:47

was a complicated one for her and an

22:49

emotional one, because on one hand, this is

22:51

a hope Higgs who hasn't spoken to the

22:53

former president since the summer of 2022 before

22:55

she testified to the January 6th committee. And

22:57

the things that she told that committee were

22:59

jaw-dropping. She basically said that she had told

23:01

the former president she didn't believe in his

23:03

claims of election fraud, that they had sort

23:05

of agreed to disagree, but that there was

23:07

really nothing more for them to say to

23:09

each other and nothing more for her to

23:11

do in the White House. She didn't even

23:13

show up to work on January 6th. And

23:17

so that distance is really there. And yet

23:19

her memory of what was between the two

23:21

of them and how that accompanied both of

23:23

their meteoric rises and American politics, I think

23:26

was very much on her mind today. Yeah.

23:29

All the, in all of his cases, everyone testing

23:31

Ryan Genson, they're all his people. They're all Republicans.

23:33

They're all his own people. George Conway, let me

23:35

play you something that was very unusual. And you

23:37

would know this even better than I would that

23:40

Donald Trump did on October 7, Here's

23:43

the tape.

23:46

I've never said I'm a perfect person, nor

23:48

pretended to be someone that I'm not. I've

23:51

said and done things I regret. And

23:53

the words released today on this more than

23:55

a decade old video are one of

23:58

them. Anyone who knows me. knows

24:00

these words don't reflect who i

24:02

am i said it i

24:05

was wrong and i apologize source

24:08

conway that don't have never apologize that he's been

24:10

on t.v. since i you know i'll both of

24:13

my life uh... he's never done that

24:15

but he did it because not because he was

24:17

afraid melania would be upset you did it for

24:19

the campaign absolutely absolutely i

24:21

mean he he never heard him say that

24:23

again he doesn't apologize for anything that that

24:25

that was how bad this was that he

24:28

actually made a public apology and admitted wrong

24:30

he never does that i mean he's been

24:32

asked to be you know do you ask

24:34

for forgiveness from jesus christ he says no

24:37

why why why would i do that and

24:39

then i mean i believe it i mean

24:41

this is this is uh... something

24:44

that i i i i can't believe that

24:46

my brain still remembers but in december he

24:48

actually told the united states center to this

24:50

is reported by maggie haver in new york times

24:53

that access hollywood tape we think that

24:55

was faked he actually said that i

24:57

mean you know that was absolutely one

24:59

hundred percent fake remorse it's the one

25:01

time that i you know i i've

25:03

written about him being a narcissistic sociopath

25:06

you know as consistent with that has never

25:08

shown any remorse and i when

25:10

i wrote that article about it five years ago i

25:13

thought this was the only time i ever i

25:15

ever found any evidence

25:18

that he will apologize or said he

25:20

felt bad about something he'd done and

25:22

he didn't need it and

25:25

that the color would take with me contemporary into the that to

25:27

the time when he was messing around with uh... bernie

25:29

dandelion and care to do a lot of last question to

25:32

you we've been the judge of our son that you pretty

25:34

dope i'd like to know what his way to that

25:36

you very giving i need very firm in responding

25:38

to things whether they happen in his court or

25:40

not don't come point out and did i think

25:43

what he said i'm not allowed to testify because

25:45

i'm under a gag order uh...

25:47

what did that do today to pay no no that

25:49

that a tremendous the judge

25:51

started today joey by very calmly

25:53

addressing trump almost as if he

25:55

was and this informed child as

25:57

opposed to a petulant defendant and

26:00

essentially said to him, sir, I think

26:02

you might be under some misimpression with

26:04

respect to the impact of my gag

26:06

order. It absolutely has no effect on

26:08

your ability to testify. In fact, it

26:10

only addresses extrajudicial statements, extrajudicial meaning out

26:13

of court. So you have a constitutional

26:15

right to testify in this courtroom in

26:17

your own defense, if you so choose

26:19

in consultation with your lawyers, as well

26:21

as a constitutional right not to testify

26:23

if you so choose. And I just

26:25

wanted to make that perfectly clear to

26:27

you, sir. And doing that, he's showing

26:29

Donald Trump, he's watching. Oh,

26:32

Lord, let him testify, please, I

26:34

pray. Please, please. Thank you.

26:37

We all are in agreement with such

26:39

an agreement on Matt, Lisa Rubin, and

26:42

George Conway. Testify Donald. Thank y'all

26:44

very much. Please, don't be checking, don't be scared. Do

26:46

it. Coming up next is a political

26:49

fallout as pro-Palestinian campus protests continue and

26:51

the situation in Gaza continues to worsen.

26:53

We are back. When

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On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll

27:37

explore one nation's most notorious fruit and

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vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes

27:41

bad dirt so bad? The answer, the ingredients.

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But fear not, true crime enthusiasts.

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over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us

28:03

next time on Plant Killers. Campus

28:11

protests continue over Israeli military responses

28:13

in Gaza, while some have taken

28:15

a disturbing turn, such as an

28:17

encounter at University of Mississippi between

28:19

protesters and counter-protesters. Did

28:35

you catch the monkey sound there? I did.

28:37

This video was posted by Mike Collins, a

28:39

Republican congressman from Georgia, with the words, Ole

28:42

Miss taking care of business, using

28:45

the nickname for the university derived from

28:47

the plantation days of Mississippi. It's

28:49

giving Confederacy. And it wasn't

28:51

the only one. Governor Tate Reeves also

28:54

posted a video showing counter-protesters singing the

28:56

Star Spangled Banner in front of Palestinian

28:58

protesters. Surprise,

29:23

they weren't singing Dixie instead. Governor

29:26

Reeves praised the counter-protesters, writing, the

29:28

protests at Ole Miss today, watch with sound,

29:30

warm up my heart. I love Mississippi. Remember,

29:33

Reeves is the same Republican politician

29:35

who proclaimed April to be Confederate

29:37

Heritage Month and April 29 as

29:39

Confederate Memorial Day. He also signed a bill

29:42

limiting how race can be discussed in

29:44

Mississippi classrooms. Warm

29:46

up his little heart. Meanwhile, protests

29:48

dominated the news this week at multiple

29:50

campuses. But as Senator Bernie Sanders pointed

29:52

out, the American college campus is not

29:54

where our focus should be. It

29:58

is time. to not simply

30:01

worry about the violence we

30:04

are seeing on American college

30:07

campuses, but

30:09

to focus on the

30:11

unprecedented violence we

30:13

are seeing in Gaza. I suggest

30:16

the CNN and maybe some of my

30:18

colleagues here, maybe take

30:20

your cameras just for a moment off of

30:22

Columbia and off of UCLA.

30:26

Maybe go to Gaza and

30:29

take your camera and show us the

30:31

emaciated children who are dying

30:33

of malnutrition because of Netanyahu's policies.

30:37

Joining me now is Dean Obadala, MSNBC

30:39

columnist and host of the Dean Obadala

30:41

show on SiriusXM and Fernand Amandhi, MSNBC

30:43

political analyst and Democratic pollster, both friends

30:45

of the show. Dean, I mean,

30:47

he makes an excellent point. He was on your show, Bernie

30:50

Sanders, Senator Sanders recently making that very same

30:52

point. Very

30:54

much so. The issue is what's happening in Gaza.

30:57

What's happening there is what's making

30:59

the students protest. Interfaith,

31:03

multiracial coalition of people were

31:05

outraged by seeing the suffering in Gaza. Today,

31:07

88 members of the House, including

31:09

moderate Democrats and a letter to President Biden,

31:12

calling out what they said was

31:14

intentional deprivation of humanitarian aid by

31:17

the Netanyahu administration, the people in Gaza. This

31:20

is unprecedented. The U.N. has said we've never

31:22

seen this much devastation direct to homes and

31:25

residential places since World War II. It

31:27

is atrocious. It is a human rights violation.

31:29

It is international law violation. And

31:33

I'm glad that Senator Sanders is bringing that up.

31:35

That should be the focus right there, what's going

31:37

on in Gaza. Absolutely.

31:39

But at the same time that I think we have

31:41

to have a dual lens, Fernand, because we have an

31:43

election coming up in which I think there's a lot

31:45

of concern that this could be a

31:47

factor in the way that a lot of young people

31:49

vote. You know, my kiddos, you

31:51

know, I think a lot of young people in

31:53

that age group are really angry about this. And

31:56

they're seeing things like people chanting monkey

31:58

sounds at a black propeller. Palestinian Protestor

32:01

and then being praised by a Republican

32:03

congressman for it in Mississippi pure blatant

32:05

racism You're seeing things like Lauren Boebert

32:07

one of the dumbest members of Congress

32:09

and I'm saying that no emergent agreed

32:11

exists Ripping down a Palestinian flag

32:13

taking it upon herself to become a part

32:16

of it It's hard to extricate it from

32:18

our own politics and I want you to

32:20

listen to a group of independent Wisconsin

32:22

voters talking about this very thing. I Don't

32:27

think my I'm just doing a great job. I don't think

32:29

Trump would do a better job as it stands I

32:31

can't see it be it changing

32:33

how I vote neither of them are

32:35

going to do a better job than what they're doing

32:37

right now it's It's not

32:40

going to impact Who I

32:42

vote which way I vote they're Gonna

32:45

do the same or worse And

32:47

these are all politically independent college students at the University

32:49

of Wisconsin They're all concerned

32:52

or critical about the war they agree It's

32:54

a top issue but said the issues that

32:56

are driving their votes They're saying neither were

32:58

doing a good job on Gaza But they're

33:00

really being driven by student loans marijuana rescheduling

33:02

and a tick-tock ban. That's what's motivating them

33:05

more Does that ring true to you as

33:07

a pollster? Oh Absolutely

33:10

joy, it certainly resonates with what I'm seeing

33:12

in the other polling. I mean look there

33:14

is an intense focus on this issue Globally

33:17

and nationally as there should be amongst many

33:19

taking place in the country But but the

33:21

idea that this is the animating issue for

33:24

all young people is just simply not Aligned

33:26

with what we're seeing in the polling and

33:29

I actually think President Biden has done as

33:31

good a job as possible In

33:33

trying to act as the honest broker in

33:36

this case He has called out the excesses

33:38

of the Netanyahu government when they have engaged

33:40

in that he is at the same time

33:43

Committed to supporting our ally in the

33:45

region in Israel and through the efforts

33:47

of him and the Democratic caucus has

33:49

been able to now deliver humanitarian

33:52

aid to Gaza that had been holed

33:55

up by the Republican

33:57

stranglehold that we saw in the house. So

33:59

what we you look at the management

34:01

and the handling of the issue and

34:03

the protests themselves that unfortunately are being

34:05

hijacked in some cases on the

34:08

other side for political reasons, I

34:10

think you have to give the

34:12

president credit for keeping a very

34:14

difficult and sensitive situation moving

34:16

in a positive forward direction. And as

34:18

Senator Sanders said earlier, the focus should

34:20

be on resolving the conflict in the

34:22

region, not necessarily all of this drama

34:25

around the college campuses. Do

34:28

you agree? Dean, we might have a little bit of disagreement.

34:30

Do you agree, Dean? Look,

34:32

I think it depends on who you speak to.

34:34

The College Democrats of America put out a statement

34:36

yesterday. They are part of the DNC. They're not

34:38

the socialist Democrats, they're the college Democrats. They

34:41

criticized President Biden for what they called a bear

34:43

hug of Netanyahu. They said they

34:45

denounced October 7th terrorist attack. They called for

34:47

the hostages to be released. The

34:49

same time they said Democrats not speaking

34:52

up for a Palestinian state, not working

34:54

harder for a ceasefire is causing disillusionment

34:56

among college Democrats who are active. I'm

34:58

not saying all of them, but obviously

35:00

there's a subset. And their whole point,

35:02

their statement is, we want President Biden

35:04

to win and he's missing on

35:06

this issue. That's the point of these younger people.

35:08

That's what they're saying. President Biden, difficult

35:11

issue, trying to make it work, it's

35:13

just not enough yet. He has more levers to

35:15

pressure Netanyahu and he hasn't used all of them.

35:18

I think some people can believe that take off their press.

35:20

Very quick. Yeah. Really

35:22

quick. I have heard the words ceasefire multiple times

35:25

out of the word of the President of the

35:27

United States and the Vice President of the United

35:29

States. And the one person engaged in pushing for

35:31

a two state solution here is the President of

35:33

the United States. So I think credit where credit

35:36

is due, an authority issue. That's why, thank God,

35:38

he is the president. And as difficult as it

35:40

is, he's doing the best I think he can.

35:42

And the polls show that in other areas. A

35:45

majority of the bipartisan support for America say the

35:47

college protests cannot go into a violent realm. And

35:49

I think you're seeing President Biden threat through that

35:51

issue as best as he can. Okay,

35:54

we're gonna have you guys come back and debate this more.

35:56

I love having this debate. Okay, don't go anywhere. Dean and

35:58

Fernand are sticking with us because. got to

36:00

discuss, which is a total, this is

36:02

called a turn y'all. The latest Kristi

36:04

Nome controversy turned out her killing her

36:06

dog. Maybe one of the only highlights

36:08

of her book that's actually true. What?

36:11

We'll be right back. It

36:20

is clear at this point, South

36:22

Dakota governor Kristi Nome is making

36:24

the worst vice presidential pitch in

36:26

history. Her book documenting how she shot

36:28

her puppy to death isn't out until

36:31

next week, but it seems she's also been

36:33

caught in few lies. The Dakota

36:35

Scout reported on anecdotes in the book

36:37

claiming that she met North Korean dictator

36:39

Kim Jong Un while she was a

36:41

back venture in Congress and stared him

36:44

down and canceled a meeting last year

36:46

with French president Emmanuel Macron. Macron's

36:48

office said no meeting was

36:51

ever scheduled. Nome spokesperson admitted that those

36:53

things never happened. Now calling the claim

36:55

a small error and said future additions

36:57

will be corrected. Meanwhile, political reported

36:59

that in addition to the Kim Jong Un bit, she

37:02

says Nikki Haley threatened her in a

37:04

phone call, which a spokeswoman for Haley

37:06

called just plain weird. So

37:09

apparently the only part of Nova's book that's actually true

37:11

is this, her shooting her

37:13

puppy for misbehaving. Um, because she keeps doubling

37:16

down on that one. Even Mitt Romney, who

37:18

infamously put his dog Seamus in

37:20

a carrier on the roof of his family car on a

37:22

vacation trip said, don't bring me into this. He

37:24

told Huffington Post, I didn't shoot my dog

37:26

and added, I love my dog and

37:29

my dog loved me. Back

37:31

with me. Deena, it's all I had for

37:33

Nana Mandy. I'm giving you

37:35

easy governor and you inherit my friend

37:37

Dean Kristina thought.

37:42

Even Dick Cheney apologized for shooting his

37:45

friend. Kristina was doubling and tripling

37:47

down on shooting the dog and let's

37:49

not forget she shot a goat the

37:51

same day. She said, just shut her

37:53

dog and then brought her family, goes

37:55

to the gravel, shot that and

37:57

then said in the book, a construction over there.

38:00

Then she stared them down and there was like

38:02

a Tony Soprano hit in the gravel pit. She

38:05

is making Sarah Pader look better. At some point she

38:07

was like, I can see Russia from my house. I

38:09

was like, no, you can't see Russia from your house.

38:12

She's a cool liar. She's covered in bags. I think

38:14

she's probably, she should be the VP. She should be the

38:16

nominee to the VP of the presidential material. They

38:19

tried to hang my fence. They might get her. Red

38:21

Rob, Red Rob. Okay. I've got a

38:23

governor for you too. And you know, it's your governor for Ned. You know,

38:25

I can't help it. Your governor, why is he banning? Okay. Let's

38:28

see what he does. He has signed a ban of lab grown meat in Florida. meat

38:31

head with unusual efficiency. It combines the most loathsome elements of the

38:33

sort of new right politics that the Santa's has embraced to get

38:35

ahead in his party. of the GOP's

38:37

crankish base. It would be batted off as a fake meat ban. And

39:14

he's going to keep doing these idiotic culture

39:16

wars that got him exactly zero

39:18

wins in the

39:20

primary. So the more the meat head,

39:22

the merrier here when it comes to

39:24

these policies that Americans are just laughing

39:26

at and people around the world are

39:29

laughing at governor meatball for. Yeah.

39:31

Okay. Very good. To

39:34

you first and then back to Dean, there is a

39:36

new poll, Pew Research showing that Latino eligible voters are

39:38

actually Trump, Biden's doing better with them. Going

39:41

to you, you're our data guy, Joe Biden,

39:43

52, Donald Trump, 44 direct and in Arizona

39:45

and all of these other states, the share

39:47

of Latino voters in key swing states with

39:49

Biden is starting to go up. Do you

39:51

see him improving himself with these voters?

39:55

Look, I do, but let me just be the first to say. 2,

40:01

2 44 is like a nightmare number for me because I remember

40:03

when Barack Obama got 71%, you

40:05

know, and, and every Clinton got 68, uh,

40:07

just a couple of years later. So,

40:09

but I do think those Hispanic voters

40:11

are going to come back home, especially

40:14

those that we call the lower information

40:16

voters, joy, those that really aren't engaged

40:18

in the day to day of politics

40:20

as this race gets closer to election

40:22

day. And they're reminded that the crazy

40:24

man is on the ballot who wants

40:26

to set up deportation camps and who

40:28

was insulting, uh, Hispanics all across the

40:30

fruit plane. I think they're going to come back home and

40:33

I think you see Joe Biden not only win it, but

40:35

when it close to the type of support he got in

40:37

2020. Okay. And

40:39

one last one for you. Here's a

40:42

video or picture of Katie Hobbs, the

40:44

governor of Arizona signing the repeal of

40:46

the 1864 abortion ban. Still unbelievable. Republicans

40:48

were 38 hot. They were still out

40:51

there be clowning themselves saying this was

40:53

not God's will. Uh, it's still going to

40:55

be in effect for 90 days. There's a lot of intricacies

40:57

in Arizona law. It has to be 90 days after the

40:59

end of the session. How important do you think

41:01

abortion will be in this race? Dean, I think

41:05

vitally important. What I think some people are

41:07

missing in Arizona, 99% of

41:10

Republicans in the Senate and the state house voted

41:12

against repealing it. Just so everyone understands

41:15

they want a total abortion that they want to

41:17

go back to 1864 before

41:19

there was a civil rights act or before a

41:21

woman can vote. So this idea of this wasn't

41:24

bipartisan in the true sense. It was like two

41:26

Republicans in one chamber and three and the others.

41:28

It was Democrats in 14 states.

41:30

They have this Arizona law, total ban

41:32

of abortion women's forced against their will

41:35

to carry a fetus, a term which

41:37

I call barbaric, but that's the

41:39

GOP platform. It's barbarism. Indeed.

41:42

Dean Obadala, Fernanda, Amandhi, uh, thank you all both very much.

41:44

Uh, and we're going to change it up a little bit.

41:46

You guys tonight, we have a very special edition of who

41:48

won the week that you don't want to miss. I I'm

41:50

letting my two friends go. We're not gonna, we're not gonna

41:52

let them play it, but I'm gonna explain to you why

41:55

when we come right back. A

42:04

great change is at hand and

42:06

our task, our obligation

42:09

is to make that revolution, that change,

42:12

peaceful and constructive for all. Those

42:15

who do nothing are inviting shame

42:18

as well as violence. Those

42:21

who act boldly are recognizing

42:23

right as well as

42:25

reality. Hours

42:28

after JFK's televised address to the nation

42:30

on civil rights, the NAACP's first field

42:32

secretary in the state of Mississippi, 37-year-old

42:34

Medgar Evers was shot in the back

42:36

as he stood in the driveway of

42:38

his Jackson, Mississippi home. Evers

42:41

had gained the ire of white supremacists

42:43

for his activism and his public

42:45

investigations into the lynching of

42:47

14-year-old Emmett Till. An

42:49

Army veteran and civil rights icon, Evers was

42:51

buried with full military honors in front of

42:54

more than 3,000 people at

42:56

Arlington National Cemetery. The

42:58

domestic terrorism that took his

43:00

life would, in many ways, go on to

43:02

define the era. The murders

43:04

of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who

43:06

you see in the procession, JFK, Malcolm

43:09

— I mean, JFK, Malcolm X and

43:11

others were yet to come. It

43:13

wasn't until 1994, more than 30

43:16

years after his assassination, in front

43:18

of a third jury, that longtime

43:20

Klan member Byron D. Lebekwiec was

43:23

finally convicted in Evers' murder.

43:26

Medgar Evers' long road to justice was

43:28

acknowledged moments ago at the White House,

43:30

where President Biden awarded the Presidential Medal

43:32

of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian honor,

43:35

to 19 people, including

43:37

civil rights icons like Opal Lee,

43:39

considered the grandmother of Juneteenth, Judy

43:42

Shepard, an LGBTQ rights activist, Clarence

43:44

Jones, who helped draft King's I

43:47

Have a Dream speech, and

43:49

the first Black House Majority Whip,

43:52

Representative Jim Clyburn of South Carolina.

43:55

Nancy Pelosi, the first woman to serve as Speaker

43:57

of the House, was also honored. And

43:59

most notably, for me, given that I did write

44:01

a book about him, Medgar Evers,

44:03

who was honored posthumously. And

44:07

today we honor Medgar Evers and

44:09

his family's pain and purpose, an

44:12

Army veteran who worked tirelessly to end

44:14

segregation in Mississippi, to deliver the promise

44:16

of America to all Americans. A

44:19

patriot was gunned down by the

44:21

poison of white supremacy, but

44:23

his spirit endures. With

44:27

Evers' 91-year-old wife and partner in

44:29

activism, Murley, unable to make the

44:31

trip to the Capitol, the posthumous

44:33

award was accepted by their daughter,

44:35

Rina Evers-Everette. And Medgar Evers,

44:37

for obvious reasons, is this week's

44:39

winner of who won the week. But

44:42

wait, there is more. My

44:45

pal and colleague Rachel Maddow and I recently

44:47

did a great discussion about Medgar and

44:49

Murley Evers, and you can see all of

44:51

it in a very special program. Joy Reed and

44:53

Rachel Maddow live at the Apollo tomorrow

44:56

night at 9 p.m. Eastern right here

44:58

on MSNBC. Be sure to join us.

45:00

And that's it for tonight's readout. Hi,

45:12

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45:15

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45:20

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