0:02

Welcome to The Referral with me, Dr.

0:04

Curran. This is your weekly science

0:07

podcast to improve your understanding

0:09

of the human body and give you actionable

0:11

science-based tools to improve your health.

0:14

I'm Dr. Curran, I'm a surgeon in the NHS

0:16

and I'm also a medical school lecturer. Now,

0:18

in today's episode, I want to talk about something

0:20

which is not really talked about a lot and it's literally

0:23

a silent epidemic. It's all about

0:25

hearing and hearing me

0:28

today to discuss hearing loss and hearing

0:30

impairment is Tasha Ghori. Now,

0:32

she is from Love Island and one of the world's

0:34

biggest reality TV shows. She's a

0:36

fully-fledged celebrity, podcaster,

0:39

dancer, and a

0:41

massive advocate for the deaf community. And

0:43

we actually had an open conversation about this a few

0:46

weeks ago and a lot came out and you

0:48

know, they were at a point where they go

0:50

to bed in tears being guilty.

0:53

And that's how, I don't want

0:55

to cry, but that's kind of how bad it got

0:57

in terms of growing up. And coming up a bit later

0:59

in the show, I love answering your questions. So I'm going

1:01

to answer a bit in crowd science,

1:03

the bit where you ask a question and I'll do

1:05

a deep dive into that. Now, if you want your own

1:08

question featured on this show, get

1:10

in touch at thereferralpod.com. If you

1:12

want to listen to even more scientific explanations

1:14

and deeper dives into your health curiosities,

1:17

go and subscribe to The Referral Plus. You

1:19

can also get all of my main episodes completely

1:21

ad-free. Just visit the Referral Show page

1:23

on Apple Podcasts and hit the Try Free button

1:26

at the top of the page to begin your free trial

1:28

today. Before we understand how hearing

1:30

can go wrong and hearing loss can develop with

1:32

all the flaws and glitches of the

1:34

body, I'm going to take you back to school

1:36

and give you a much more fun science

1:38

lesson on how normal hearing

1:40

works. So how do you hear sound? First

1:43

of all, you've got the big flappy bits on the outside

1:45

that you can see, the pinna, that's

1:47

basically your human version of antennae.

1:50

They gather the sound waves and they

1:52

conduct it down the ear canal.

1:54

And then they hit the ear drum and cause the

1:56

ear drum to start to vibrate.

1:59

on the type of sound and the frequency of sound,

2:02

it can cause differences in how fast

2:05

or how much the actual eardrum vibrates.

2:07

And these vibrations of the eardrum are

2:09

then passed through three very tiny bones,

2:12

the malleus, the incus, and

2:14

the stapes. And if you remember that from high school

2:16

biology or whenever you learned it, that

2:18

literally stands for hammer, anvil,

2:21

and stirrup. Now these tiny little

2:23

bones are miraculous. They basically act

2:25

as sound amplifiers. Whatever

2:28

sound vibrations are created

2:31

by the eardrum, that is amplified

2:34

by these tiny little bones. Then the

2:36

stapes, the stirrup, the last of

2:38

these tiny little ear bones, it

2:40

then knocks on the cochlea, which is this

2:42

snail shell shaped little thing.

2:45

And now we're reaching the inner ear. And

2:47

if you've got a mental image of your head of a snail

2:49

shell with all its spiral type shape,

2:51

that is essentially what the cochlea looks

2:53

like. It's filled with fluid and

2:56

filled with thousands and thousands of tiny

2:58

little hairs called stereocilia. Now

3:01

when these little ear bones knock

3:03

on the cochlea, it causes that to move

3:06

around and the fluid moves, and

3:08

the fluid moving causes these hair cells

3:10

to move as well. Now as soon as these hair

3:12

cells start to move, it changes

3:14

that energy of movement into

3:17

electricity. And that electricity

3:19

is then passed through the auditory nerve, the

3:21

eighth cranial nerve, and then goes through

3:23

its electrical signals to the brain. The

3:25

brain then reads the electricity as

3:28

the sounds you perceive. That is

3:30

a biological miracle. I can't

3:32

express how complex and how

3:34

beautiful that all is. And that is how

3:37

normal hearing works. Tasha

3:42

Gurri. Hello. Thank you very much

3:44

for joining my next podcast. If you look at

3:46

the UK as a whole, I was pretty shocked

3:48

to read that about 12 million

3:51

people in the UK are deaf. So

3:53

that's about one in six people are

3:55

deaf. And I suspect that figure

3:58

will be mirrored in... probably

4:00

every country in the world, that one in six-ish

4:02

figure. Being a part of that deaf

4:04

community, it feels sometimes like

4:07

it's isolated and cut off, but they're

4:09

friends, family, colleagues, co-workers.

4:12

It's crazy to think that in the UK,

4:14

like you said, it's literally one in six people that are

4:16

deaf and there's so, there's not much spoken

4:19

enough about it. Like I feel like it's very overlooked

4:21

in terms of it's not a proper disability

4:23

and it's more of a hidden kind of disability.

4:26

It's actually, that's not the case, it actually does

4:28

affect our lives daily in and

4:30

out. Every day still affects me, but I still

4:32

get on with it and it's something that

4:34

I was born with, like you said, I was born to a hearing

4:36

family. So it's something very, very

4:39

new for them. They have no idea how to navigate

4:42

and deal with

4:44

me being deaf and

4:46

I have an older brother as well and he's hearing. It's

4:49

kind of tough as a family to go through while growing

4:51

up and it was such a big thing

4:53

for them to adapt to. They really had to change

4:56

ways around me and really put a lot

4:58

of attention into me and a lot of effort.

5:01

That's also mainstream schools because they

5:03

kind of put me in a situation where I had

5:05

to pause my speech to get better. I had

5:07

to be around people that had conversations.

5:09

I really had to work hard and learn

5:12

to communicate and I was the only deaf

5:14

person in my school. Really? Yeah. Wow.

5:17

You were born deaf? Yeah.

5:19

I mean if you don't mind me asking what

5:21

was the specific cause of the deafness?

5:23

We actually don't know. The

5:26

doctors just said sometimes it can just happen.

5:28

It wasn't genetic. No one in my family is deaf

5:30

at all. So at first it was kind

5:33

of a shock because my family was like, I wouldn't expect

5:35

this at all. There's no family history about

5:37

it. So the doctors just said it can just

5:40

happen sometimes. It can be born with

5:42

a disability, just how it is. Yeah.

5:44

They found out when I was 12 months old, which is quite

5:46

late on. Yeah. That's just because

5:48

I wasn't responding to squeaky

5:51

toys or responding to my

5:53

parents' sounds, voices. They were a bit

5:55

like, okay, she's not responding

5:57

how she normally should be. And I went to do a few more.

6:00

hearing test and that's when they said okay she's

6:02

deaf and that's kind of where the journey

6:04

started

6:04

pretty much. So what was your first

6:07

involvement with medical professionals

6:10

in trying to you know

6:13

give you some hearing back? What was the first

6:16

treatment you had or interaction?

6:18

So my first operation I had I was five

6:20

years old and it's quite late late

6:22

on because my parents had to make that decision for

6:25

me they're the ones that kind of have to say okay

6:27

you're gonna get a cock of implant. I was five I

6:29

couldn't make that decision for myself I know

6:31

I do what's going on and at that

6:34

age back then this is literally

6:36

how old am I 25 literally 20 years

6:39

ago. Technology back then

6:41

isn't like how it was now so it's kind of experiments

6:44

see how it worked on me that's why I

6:46

got it on my right ear not on both ears and

6:49

it's just kind of just to see okay

6:51

let's see if this will work out for her because sometimes

6:53

it won't work sometimes it will work and

6:56

that's just how it works and yeah so

6:58

it was five years old and I couldn't

7:01

speak until then I was doing BSL before

7:03

then yeah so I was doing it in BSL so even

7:06

now that sometimes I talk with my hands yeah

7:08

but yeah that's how I was communicating

7:10

and then I had to force my speech I had speech therapy

7:13

after when I was five and I had to stop

7:15

using BSL to get my speech better.

7:17

So when you had that surgery

7:19

at five that was a cochlear implant that

7:21

you had what is a cochlear implant

7:23

to you I mean did you dig into like how

7:26

it all works and the science behind it?

7:28

Yeah I mean obviously I don't know the scientific

7:30

words as such but basically you've got an

7:32

external and an internal part so the

7:34

external is like an earpiece I say it's like

7:36

a cool like spy device kind of

7:38

like a bluetooth headset head

7:41

thing right yeah

7:41

it's like it just goes around the hook right back

7:43

of my ear the microphone's at the front

7:46

yeah and you've got the internal which is what the operation's

7:48

for and it's very very clever how it

7:51

works but basically the internal so I've got a magnet

7:53

in my head the coil the external

7:55

coil connects the magnet inside my head and that's what

7:57

activates the implant internal and external.

8:01

And when you're talking to me, the sound travel, or

8:03

the headphones, it travels through the microphone

8:05

at the front, it goes through the wire through

8:07

the magnet into my ear. And

8:09

that's how sound travels. And it's like

8:11

a process that recognize sounds and

8:14

transmit it to my brain. That's basically

8:16

how it works. I don't hear from my

8:18

ear hear from the implant. But yeah, that's

8:20

where people get a bit confused. So

8:22

it's kind of like I say it's like a

8:24

robot earpiece, basically. Yeah,

8:26

no, I think it's fascinating. When when I was a medical

8:28

student, I did like a full week attachment

8:31

with an E and T surgeon and ear nose throat surgeon.

8:33

Yeah. And I saw a couple of, you know, quite

8:35

cool things. One was like a bone assisted

8:38

hearing or bone anchored hearing device.

8:40

And one was a cochlear implant, we

8:42

saw the surgery took about, you know, sort

8:44

of an hour or so. And literally, you

8:47

know, getting into that and using these

8:49

coils, and using

8:51

that coil to go directly into

8:53

the hearing nerve, the auditory nerve, and

8:56

basically firing electricity. So it goes

8:58

and feeds the sound into your brain. When

9:01

you first got that as a five year old, you're saying

9:04

before five, you, I'm assuming

9:07

you were nonverbal, you didn't speak at

9:09

all. Yeah, and it's purely sign

9:11

language, British Sign Language. Yeah. And

9:14

you mentioned before about how your

9:16

family had to adapt for you because no one

9:18

in your family, you know, was deaf at all.

9:20

Yeah. How much of a change

9:22

was it for them? Was it stressful for

9:25

them? What was the kind of like the

9:27

family situation like in your younger years?

9:29

Oh,

9:29

I think it was definitely tough for

9:31

them. But we were lucky we had a lot of support

9:33

around us. So the primary school that was in we really

9:36

support him and I also had a carer called Mary

9:38

Ann. And she would come around and do

9:40

speech therapy lessons with me should be there

9:42

me and primary school should

9:44

do lessons with me and you know,

9:47

a lot of extra work on the outside. But I

9:49

think for me growing up when you're

9:51

growing up as a child slash your nature, you

9:53

kind of figuring out who you are as a person and

9:56

you compare yourself. That sort of

9:58

happens naturally. And I was parrying myself

10:00

in such a negative way to other

10:02

people being like why have I got this disability?

10:05

Why am I deaf? Why

10:07

me? And that put a lot of pressure on my

10:09

parents to a point where I actually would blame

10:11

them for making me deaf. It got

10:13

that bad. We actually had an

10:16

open conversation about this a few weeks ago and a

10:18

lot came out and they were at the point

10:21

where they go to bed in tears being guilty.

10:24

And that's how, I don't know if I

10:26

was deaf or not, but that's kind of how bad it got

10:29

in terms of growing up because like for

10:31

me I'm so thankful that I got

10:33

this gift in a way because I'm doing what I'm doing now. But

10:35

back then I was just struggling so

10:38

much with my confidence and knowing who I

10:40

was and being with my disability.

10:42

And going to a hearing family they're not obviously

10:44

going to get everything that I'm going through. I think that's

10:47

what was hard sometimes. My parents had to really

10:49

try and understand why sometimes I

10:51

just get frustrated and sometimes I get

10:53

my implant and just throw it out. There would be situations

10:56

like that where I literally would just get so angry

10:58

with myself or if there's

11:00

a conversation I'm missing out I'd just get really upset.

11:03

But they were so supportive and they stayed

11:05

with me throughout and they were patient. And

11:07

I think that's the main thing and patience is key and

11:10

I think just being understanding and

11:12

we're so close that we're a

11:13

family. 80-90%

11:16

of deaf children are born to hearing

11:18

parents. So your situation

11:20

will be mirrored by most deaf

11:23

children for a certain age until they

11:25

either regain hearing or at least partial hearing.

11:28

So those struggles, those anxieties and frustrations

11:31

will be quite common. And I

11:33

guess, did you ever feel, you mentioned

11:35

sometimes you were frustrated that you weren't part

11:37

of a conversation. Did you ever feel

11:40

socially isolated either at home

11:42

or even at school to the point where even

11:46

you get bullied because of your perceived

11:48

difference?

11:49

Yeah, there's been many times where I feel

11:51

socially isolated. Even to this day now

11:53

when I go to events and there's

11:55

so much going on, there's a

11:57

lot of background noise, I can't saying

12:00

to the point where I just sneak out and just go

12:02

home and just sit

12:03

and live with me. Don't like me,

12:05

yeah. But luckily in school,

12:07

I wasn't bullied as such, but I was

12:09

cyber bullied, but that's just like keyboard

12:12

warriors kind of situation. But luckily, face

12:14

to face, I didn't go through that. I

12:16

had really good support of friends around me in school.

12:19

But there'd be times where my friends

12:21

would have conversations because I had to lip

12:23

read as well. And I would

12:25

feel a bit left out because I'd be trying

12:27

to say, this is what I did. So there'd be conversations.

12:29

I'd just nod in the lawn being like, yeah, yeah, just

12:32

fake laughing. I'd be like, haha, someone starts

12:34

laughing. I'm like, haha. Thinking like, I've no

12:36

idea what conversation it is. Even to

12:38

this day, I do that now. Like, I sew now. And

12:41

it's a weird thing, especially

12:43

teachers in school, when you're sat in a classroom,

12:46

even if it turns out we put it in the back, not even at the

12:48

front. Yeah, there wasn't much

12:50

consideration taken in place. And hearing

12:53

teachers write on whiteboards, they're throwing

12:55

away, they'd be talking to the whiteboard. I'm sat

12:57

there like, I need to see your face.

12:59

I need to lip read. So there'd be times where I'd

13:01

wrist down so many notes. And I did

13:04

okay in my exams, but I could have done

13:06

better if I had, if

13:08

I got everything that I needed to get. So yeah,

13:11

there's a lot of going through school,

13:13

there's a lot of isolation. But I was lucky

13:16

enough to have friends and support around

13:18

me to get through it in a way. But even

13:20

to this day now, I still struggle with conversations

13:23

and big groups going to bar

13:26

and even like me and Andrew, if we're

13:29

going to somewhere that's noisy, literally,

13:31

I honestly cannot hear you right now. We'll

13:33

go somewhere a bit quieter. So it's just figuring

13:36

out what's best for you in

13:37

a way. I was actually pretty powerful in terms

13:39

of, I think we underestimate

13:42

the impact that deafness

13:45

and lack of understanding from people

13:47

in school, people in business of authority,

13:49

like teachers can have on the education

13:52

and learning of a deaf child, like you

13:54

mentioned, that would directly affect

13:56

a kid's grades. And then it's

13:58

easy to say, he's a deaf kid

14:01

and he's not doing well because of his deafness

14:03

but actually it's because we're not

14:05

shaping our learning environment to

14:08

improve his situation or her situation.

14:10

Yeah 100% it's actually a

14:12

proven fact that a campaign a few weeks ago

14:15

on this morning we were actually talking about

14:17

how deaf children in schools are missing

14:19

out on so much information and their

14:21

grades are lacking purely because of that you

14:23

know the teachers aren't aware of how to

14:25

make it safe environment

14:27

for them and actually make it better for

14:29

them and that's something that we're fighting now

14:32

and we're trying

14:32

to get teachers to even

14:35

go through a learning course or something.

14:41

So a lot of you asked me how I balance

14:44

brainstorming for my videos and writing scripts,

14:47

planning my book chapters, my newsletter,

14:50

stuff to do with my life as a surgeon,

14:52

as a doctor in a hospital. It was a struggle but

14:54

recently I've been using Notion AI

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and it's essentially a workflow productivity

14:59

tool. I've never used these before but it's

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really simple it's beautifully designed and it

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allows me to streamline everything

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and I can juggle several projects simultaneously

15:09

and I can write faster it gives

15:11

me AI generated prompts I can

15:13

write

15:13

better it picks up grammar mistakes

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and tasks that normally

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our show as well so that's notion

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AI at notion.com

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slash referral. This is Below Deck's

15:42

Captain Lee. Listen to my new

15:44

podcast Salty with

15:46

Captain Lee. Um don't you

15:48

mean our podcast? Yeah

15:51

I guess I do. Anyhow listen

15:53

to Salty with Captain Lee co-hosted by

15:55

my assistant Sam and

15:58

we will be talking about the latest pop

15:59

culture news and all

16:02

the gossip every week. So

16:04

does this mean we have to talk by ourselves,

16:06

about ourselves, or can at least have

16:09

some guests on? I don't know why I find myself

16:11

pretty interesting, but yeah, we can have

16:13

some guests on, some of our reality

16:16

TV friends, and some stars.

16:18

Works for me. Listen to Salty

16:21

now on Apple Podcast, Spotify,

16:23

or wherever you get your podcasts.

16:30

Even now, like you mentioned, when you were younger,

16:33

you had the cyberbullies and things like that.

16:35

Do you get any of that now with your bigger platform

16:37

where you got more people aware of your condition

16:39

now? Probably triple, quadruple

16:42

I had before. Yeah. Oh

16:44

my God. It's crazy. Even when

16:46

I was on the show, I think people couldn't accept

16:49

the fact that, you know, times are changing. And,

16:51

you know, me going on a show is kind of round break

16:54

and mowing off, you know, you know, someone

16:56

with the hearing loss is going on a show that wears a cock of implant.

16:59

And there's so many comments

17:01

such as, you know, I want to wrap out a cock of

17:04

implant, throw it in the pool, her voice

17:06

is annoying. I always see comments every day,

17:08

probably three to four comments a day

17:09

about my voice,

17:10

because we have something called a deaf accent. And

17:13

that's just purely because it's just something that

17:15

we have, the way our tone is. Our

17:18

accents are very different from normal her own person's

17:20

accent. And I try

17:23

to educate that as much as I can, but people

17:25

still will take the mic out of

17:27

it and really slander it down. But

17:30

I'm quite strong in that way to kind of turn it into

17:32

a positive thing. OK, I can use this to educate

17:34

people and share that message

17:37

that, you know, the reason why my voice sounds like

17:39

this is because that and that and that. And,

17:42

yeah, unfortunately, it's something that, you

17:44

know, you do have to deal with having a bigger platform,

17:47

but I knew that was going to come with

17:49

it going on the show. But

17:51

I'm just very shocked at what people can say and

17:54

just buying that keyboard. It really

17:56

is surprising. I really

17:57

don't understand it because those people

17:59

who. do comment toxic

18:01

things online, they probably

18:04

know someone with a hearing impairment, or who

18:06

are deaf. It might even be their family. So

18:08

it really shocks me because if you look at one in six people

18:11

in the UK who are deaf, you probably know

18:13

someone or a friend of a friend who is

18:15

like that. So if your friend saw

18:17

you writing that, what would they think? It's

18:20

quite weird. Do you still use BSL?

18:22

Are you still fluent in it now that you don't have to use

18:24

it so much?

18:25

I'm trying to get back into it more. Because

18:27

growing up, I really had to

18:30

not use it, my speech get better. Even

18:33

in school, I think

18:36

if it was taught in schools, I would have carried on with

18:38

it and still would have it now.

18:40

That's why I hope GCSE, BSL

18:42

were coming to school soon. But

18:44

unfortunately I didn't have that. So I had to really, my family

18:47

also around

18:49

me had to stop using BSL to communicate

18:51

with me with my speech. So trying

18:53

to get back into it now, because it's a

18:56

part of the deaf community. It

18:58

was a part of me as well. And I do want to get that back.

19:00

So I'm eventually going to grow back

19:02

into it.

19:03

Why isn't BSL part of

19:05

a school curriculum? I'm presuming you weren't

19:07

taught that at school

19:11

specifically, and it's something you had to learn

19:13

to then fit in in society.

19:15

Is there anything that you've

19:17

seen, any evidence that it will ever become

19:19

a thing in school where you just learn it as like another language,

19:22

basically?

19:23

Yes, I actually went to the Department of Education

19:25

the other month. It's currently in the parliament

19:27

at the moment. Yeah, so hopefully by 2025,

19:30

it will be in schools to learn a GCSE

19:33

course. I learned French in school.

19:35

And I mean, it could be beneficial for

19:38

people, but for me it wasn't. I've

19:40

not wanted to use French ever since I learned it.

19:42

Whereas BSL, there's so many deaf

19:44

people that I do meet out on the

19:47

street or they come over to say and

19:49

it's just going to show that it's

19:52

such it's about making them feel

19:54

more included and making

19:56

them feel more accepted in society.

19:58

And it's about this little steps and changes. So

20:01

it is getting there and I hope by 2025 it will be

20:03

a course.

20:05

No, I absolutely hope that happens because

20:07

as you said, it allows you

20:09

to open up to a bigger demographic.

20:11

So as someone who's obviously not

20:14

deaf, I might have deaf patients.

20:16

And as a doctor, you know, I don't

20:18

want to be typing out all my stuff and showing

20:20

it. I should learn BSL

20:24

so I can communicate directly in that

20:26

deaf person's kind of

20:29

native language as it was. So it's easier for

20:31

them to understand what I'm saying and I can treat

20:33

them in the best possible way. And

20:35

obviously, I mean, this is a bit silly, but you know, I saw

20:37

that movie, The Quiet Place. Obviously

20:40

you need to know BSL otherwise you'll be killed

20:43

by the creatures. So a lot of people

20:45

think that is, it's just for hearing and

20:47

hearing sounds, music and people talking. But

20:50

actually it's also contributes

20:52

to your sense of balance as well. I know

20:55

your background is dancing as well. How

20:58

was that being deaf and then getting

21:00

your cochlear implant and then dancing? Did it affect

21:03

how you learned dancing and your sense

21:05

of coordination and balance?

21:06

So basically how it all started,

21:08

I used to watch steps on TV and follow

21:10

the dance moves. My mum and dad were saying, take

21:12

it to a dance class, see what happens. And

21:15

dancing music massively helped

21:17

with my hearing. And I think it's because

21:19

you know, you learn in music, you understand

21:22

the beats of the music and the way I feel

21:24

the music, I feel it through the vibration

21:26

and through my body. And I don't

21:28

necessarily hear the specific lyrics

21:30

unless I go and Google and learn it and I'll know.

21:33

But if it's a song I never heard before, I should go off

21:35

the beats and beat it through like my

21:37

headphones. I can feel

21:40

it. We hear it so differently, but it feels so

21:42

good. And with dancing,

21:45

it just became my passion.

21:47

I just loved it. It is interesting

21:49

because obviously we have a sense of balance.

21:51

We do lose a bit of balance and you

21:53

know, if we're doing a pre-act turn, if I turn

21:55

to my right, I can do it. But if I turn to

21:57

my left, my balance will be way off.

21:59

Your right is

22:02

in the cochlear implant. Yeah,

22:03

so it's very interesting. Like if

22:05

I turn to my right, my balance literally

22:07

roll completely off. And

22:10

so I really had to train myself

22:12

as a dancer. So I'd be in there in the morning

22:14

doing balance work that would help

22:17

me, doing turn work that would help me and

22:19

it got better and better. And that's what

22:21

it is. You kind of have to train your muscles,

22:23

that muscle memory and brain memory. And

22:25

that's what, you know, dance is about. You

22:28

know, you learn in choreography and

22:30

that's how you remember it. And

22:32

it's all about muscle memory. I can learn something today. I remember

22:34

it next week. Yeah. That's how I became who I

22:36

am today as well. That's how I found my confidence with

22:39

dancing because it's such a safe, open space.

22:41

No one gets judged. You can go in that

22:43

dance class, be who you want to be and just threat

22:46

it out. Yeah. Enjoy it for like an hour and a

22:48

half.

22:48

So, you know, that's so

22:51

interesting. So we all have that bone conduction, but in your

22:53

case, you also have that.

22:54

Yeah. Little feeling. Yeah.

22:57

It's crazy. Like even, you know, if you want

22:59

to sing, you hit that high note. Yeah.

23:01

I can literally like get

23:03

goosebumps. Really?

23:04

I can just really feel it. It's crazy.

23:06

Even at a concert, I saw

23:08

a cold play the other week. And I just

23:11

couldn't stop smiling because I can

23:13

just feel the music around me, the atmosphere

23:15

and it's interesting. We really feel

23:17

it through our body. And it's kind

23:20

of like a happiness feeling.

23:21

Oh, like you just feel like ferritone in. And yeah,

23:23

yeah,

23:24

that's the word that feels like.

23:26

When I listen to music and sometimes even take about

23:28

my implant from a headband and then just

23:31

listen to it. That and I feel it

23:33

so differently and I love it. Yeah.

23:35

So if you take off your implant and

23:37

you're just listening to music, you

23:39

obviously don't get the clarified

23:41

words and sounds, but you still feel

23:44

the vibrations and that still

23:46

does something

23:46

for you. Yeah. You can feel that the bass,

23:48

the like the drums, you can feel that doom,

23:50

doom, doom, I can feel it. Yeah.

23:52

Wow. That's amazing. You know, is there anything

23:55

that you find in your day to day life

23:57

now with a cochlear implant? Are you limited

23:59

by?

23:59

I wouldn't say so, I think because

24:02

I've learned how to adapt and now

24:04

I live in a flat with my boyfriend, we've got a dog now

24:07

and I think when you're growing up you learn what's best

24:09

for you and what works for you. Especially like me

24:11

and Andu's relationship, he understands me very well

24:14

to the point that sometimes in the morning I won't

24:16

put on my implant for like at least an hour.

24:18

So I like to enjoy it and just you

24:20

know take my time with it, putting it on

24:23

and I could still have conversations with him because I can lip

24:25

read and sometimes I've no idea what

24:27

you're saying but we should laugh at it all. And

24:30

yeah like I said it's just about knowing what works

24:32

for you and of course there's still limitations

24:34

in terms of events that I go to

24:37

and having socialised people. I do

24:39

get very very exhausted so definitely

24:41

perhaps something called concentration fatigue and

24:44

that's something you know even on the show

24:46

I dealt with as well. It's where because

24:49

your brain's working so much like

24:51

having to lip read and also having to hear all

24:53

these sounds, the background noises and all

24:56

the other things that come with it. At the

24:58

end of the day I can be so exhausted to the point

25:00

I can't even speak myself. I take up my implant

25:03

and just relax and really take my

25:05

time to recharge, have a nap. On

25:07

Love Island I was literally having that for two hours while

25:10

the girls were getting ready. I was literally

25:12

out on the terrace napping.

25:13

I literally

25:14

had about 20 minutes to get ready. They were like Tasha

25:16

it's time to wake up, 20 minutes and I'm actually

25:18

there like quickly getting ready. It's

25:21

just yeah the concentration fatigue is something that we

25:23

suffer with and I get migraines as well.

25:26

Because the magnet strength sometimes gets really

25:28

start causing a headache and to play

25:31

in terms of the migraine but that's just something

25:33

that comes with it. So yeah

25:35

that's like a side effect I would say. Yeah

25:38

that makes sense I mean because

25:40

your brain is working so hard to

25:42

grab onto any sensation

25:44

and sensory input it can. But on the

25:46

other hand you said some days you just

25:48

like to you know take

25:51

your time putting your cochlear implant on. Is

25:54

that nice? Just being in silence and

25:56

disconnecting? Oh

25:57

I love it. It's like my favourite thing ever. I

26:00

don't know what it is, I just love, even sometimes

26:02

take lunar out for a walk and not have it in.

26:05

I think it's just I enjoy the peace, the

26:08

standstill of it because my life is quite hectic

26:11

and chaotic in terms of having to go to

26:13

all these premieres, events and showing

26:15

up to all these places all the time. Sometimes I

26:17

just like to ground myself. That's

26:19

why when I take it out, I just feel so grounded

26:22

and relaxed and calm, and

26:24

just really bring myself back

26:26

to myself in a way. It's like my safe

26:28

space of, okay, this is me time. Yeah.

26:31

That's what I like to use it as.

26:33

Because you can disconnect from that and not

26:35

have any of those outside sensations, and because

26:37

you were born deaf as well. Yeah. Have

26:40

you ever thought to yourself and

26:42

hear yourself in your head, like an

26:44

inner voice or an inner monologue?

26:45

Oh yeah, I have like an inner voice.

26:47

That you can hear yourself

26:49

inside talking? Yeah, it's like

26:51

an inside voice like in your little, so

26:53

right now, you're talking to me. Yeah,

26:55

I can hear that. It is talking to you. Yeah, I have that little

26:57

thing

26:58

in my head. If you're doing a bunch

27:00

of things like, okay, you've got to go pick up some stuff,

27:02

you've got to go out for this event later, this meeting, are

27:05

you also narrating like, okay, Tasha, go and

27:07

do this. Is that a voice telling you something to

27:09

go and do stuff

27:09

as well? Yeah, I've definitely got that

27:12

out 100%. When I take up my

27:14

implant, it's like talking to me sometimes. Really?

27:16

Yeah, sometimes when I'm home alone, I'll be like in

27:18

the shower. I'll be

27:20

like, in my head, it's a door lock. Is it locked? Things

27:23

like that.

27:23

What about your dreams? If you have a dream,

27:25

is there audio

27:28

in your dream or is it all visual and

27:30

vivid?

27:31

That's a very good question. I'm a dreamer.

27:33

I dream a lot. I would say there is audio,

27:35

yeah. Kind of make up. Yeah,

27:37

there is.

27:38

Interesting. Someone who's been such

27:40

a big advocate and going through

27:42

lots of discrimination, bullying,

27:45

cyberbullying, and a lot of hurdles

27:47

along the way, what advice

27:50

would you have for other people who are deaf and especially young

27:52

kids dealing with it in mainstream schools

27:55

and not having access to resources which includes

27:57

them in society? Do I always go by

27:59

this?

27:59

This is literally, everyone's probably heard me

28:02

say this too many times, but no

28:04

one else is you and that's your biggest power. And

28:06

that's something that's done by every day. If you're ever

28:08

feeling down or if you're struggling,

28:11

just remember that nobody else is you. And that's

28:13

something so amazing to have. And

28:16

in school, it will get hard, but

28:18

just be patient and round

28:21

yourself. And just remember

28:23

that it won't always be hard. You

28:25

will find your wins, you will find your path, and

28:28

you will find what works to you in the future.

28:30

And don't be scared as well. Don't let your disability

28:33

stop you. Don't let it define you. If

28:35

anything, it's something unique that you have.

28:39

And it's all about just be unstoppable

28:42

and be brave and go for it and never

28:44

let it stop

28:44

you. You've epitomized and manifested that.

28:47

And again, as someone who's so deeply

28:50

rooted in that deaf community, I was

28:52

quite interested in deaf culture and

28:54

it's become its own identity as well. And

28:57

there are lots of families of deaf

29:00

parents who have a deaf child and

29:03

they want the child to continue being deaf because

29:05

having that nonverbal communication is a gift in

29:07

its own right. I mean,

29:10

if it's not too personal, one day if you had a

29:12

family and kids of your own, and

29:14

if your child was born deaf,

29:17

what would be your thoughts about looking

29:20

at restoring their hearing versus

29:23

continuing to be part of the deaf community without

29:26

any hearing?

29:27

That's a good question. I've

29:29

never been asked that before, ever. Do you

29:31

know what? The deaf culture is actually crazy. There's

29:34

so much politics in the deaf culture. Yeah, that's

29:36

what I thought. There's so much politics that even

29:39

to myself, I couldn't believe the things

29:41

that people have.

29:44

Then again, it's beliefs that people do have. And I think if I was to

29:46

have a child of my own that was born

29:48

deaf, I think I would

29:50

love to give the child an opportunity

29:52

to have hearing. Because

29:56

for me personally, the cochlear implant opened up so

29:58

many opportunities for me. got me to where I am now.

30:01

And I'd love to give that opportunity to my child

30:03

as well. And in a way,

30:07

I feel like if you're born deaf, I

30:09

didn't ask for it. It came to me.

30:11

I feel like I'll see that same for my

30:13

child. So I think I'd love to. Yeah,

30:16

that's probably what I would do for my child is exactly

30:18

what my parents did for me. It'd be nice to give them that

30:21

opportunity of having both things. Like for me, I have

30:23

both things. I can be deaf for a week and

30:25

enjoy it if I wanted to. So exactly,

30:28

I want to give my child the opportunity as well

30:30

to have the best of both worlds in a way.

30:32

And I know the deaf community as

30:34

well is really hot on language,

30:36

as are many different communities. Like, you know,

30:39

people who are neurodivergent like to

30:41

have the identity first. So

30:43

they don't like to say a child

30:45

with autism, an autistic child. I

30:48

guess it's similar in the deaf community, a deaf

30:50

child rather than a child

30:52

with deafness or a child with a hearing

30:54

impairment, because that suggests it's something negative.

30:57

What are your thoughts on that? And how would, what's

30:59

like the kind of lingo and the jargon

31:01

you want to be out there for the deaf

31:03

community?

31:04

I just say I'm hearing impaired. That's

31:06

how I like to identify myself and label

31:08

myself. And that's just something I've always grown up

31:11

saying that was, you know, because I've got

31:13

cocking plants, I'm hearing impaired. And if

31:15

some people they don't like to be able to identify

31:17

themselves like that, and even the lowercase

31:20

D, deaf, that means

31:22

that, you know, I'm deaf, the lowercase

31:24

D. And there's so many different,

31:27

if you do an uppercase D, however uppercase D

31:29

deaf means for, I think it's

31:31

capital D deaf. Yeah, means something else.

31:34

But lowercase D means deaf, like

31:36

hearing loss deaf. It's very interesting.

31:39

Wow. Their culture,

31:41

deaf portraits, their terminology,

31:43

identity, there's so many different ways to

31:46

identify yourself. And, you

31:48

know, I think it's just finding out what's best, how you want to

31:50

identify yourself completely up to you. But

31:52

I don't necessarily like to be

31:55

identified as a deaf person.

31:58

For example, when I went on the show, All

32:00

the articles were like first deaf islands

32:02

there on the show and I completely

32:04

get it It was amazing positive groundbreaking

32:07

change that needed tapping. But at the same time it's like I

32:09

do have a name, you know Yeah,

32:13

I am a person so there's little

32:15

things sometimes do get to me a little bit They've

32:18

got oh, yeah, some people black. Oh, yeah, that's that defined

32:20

it. That's on the show It's like no, that's not how

32:22

I label myself I'm you

32:24

know, Tasha and I also

32:26

feel again some of the myths about You

32:29

know being deaf is that it's

32:31

an all-encompassing umbrella term like your

32:33

deaf means your is deaf It's

32:35

one condition but actually like

32:37

as we know there are so many different causes why you

32:40

can be deaf you can be from earwax

32:42

build-up something benign like that to a

32:44

tumor around the ear to a perforated

32:46

eardrum to You know

32:48

all sorts of different other things otterous sclerosis

32:51

or whatever So there are so many different things some

32:53

are treatable some are not so it can be

32:55

managed So I also feel like it's

32:57

a bespoke thing if your death doesn't mean

33:00

you are part of just one group There's

33:02

so many little subgroups and

33:04

sub brackets within that.

33:06

Yeah Like like

33:08

you said that it's interesting because you can actually

33:10

turn deaf any day Yeah, could be from

33:12

loud music and boom, you know I've met

33:14

so many people that being like, you

33:16

know, I was here until the age of 16. I just lost

33:18

it one day

33:19

Yeah, that's it I don't think we should

33:21

separate it as part of the human

33:23

body or normal part of human life because Eventually

33:26

age related deafness in

33:29

some capacity And if we as we

33:31

live longer and longer longer that will affect

33:33

us, you know Someone who's 90 and healthy will

33:35

have a worse hearing than they did at

33:38

age of 20 Yeah so for me as well

33:40

even when I'm in the hospital or from you

33:42

know, and a busy road and you know listening

33:45

to Listen to music or if there's like

33:47

roadworks going on. I'm so mindful

33:49

these days of okay I don't

33:51

want to expose myself to loud noises

33:54

for too long Yeah, like as we're talking

33:56

right now, you know, I guess like the conversation

33:59

may be around 60 decibels, just

34:01

us talking. Maybe,

34:04

you know, again, music we listen to around the same,

34:07

a whisper might be around 30 decibels.

34:09

But actually, if you look at the signs, persistently

34:12

having 80 decibels or

34:14

above is actually quite harmful

34:17

to those, you know, our ears

34:19

and the hair cells and our ears, which can actually

34:21

be destroyed. And once they're destroyed, they

34:24

don't grow back. So I think I wish people,

34:26

you know, like, I love the stuff you're doing, and I

34:28

wish people cared more about

34:30

the

34:30

ears and deafness. I think

34:33

that's all it is. Like you said, it's just very

34:35

overlooked. I think maybe people

34:37

are scared to talk about it, because they know that

34:39

eventually it could happen to them when

34:41

they age. Maybe that's all it is. Maybe

34:44

it's just that fear. And I think,

34:47

yeah, like I said, I think people just don't see it as a

34:49

proper disability and think, oh,

34:51

they're deaf, they can deal with it. They got a cochlear implant, it's

34:53

fixed. It's like, no, that's not the case. The cochlear

34:55

implant hasn't fixed my ear at all.

34:58

It's just something that, you

35:00

know, I hear from a robotic

35:02

implant is what I say.

35:04

It actually, yeah, it helps

35:06

me hear. You get into the hearing world as

35:08

it were.

35:08

Yeah, so I think there's a lot of misconceptions

35:11

around deafness, 100%.

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Hello,

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36:55

So Tasha, before I let you go, you've

36:57

got a question for me. I don't know what it is, but

37:00

feel free to fire away.

37:01

Okay, so I want to ask what is the

37:03

scariest operation you've ever done?

37:06

That is a good question. There

37:08

are quite a few scary

37:11

ones that I've done. Probably the scariest

37:14

one and the one that really sticks

37:16

in my mind from many years ago, it was

37:18

a cancer operation and a specific

37:20

type of cancer called pseudomyxoma

37:23

peritoni. The colloquial

37:26

name for that is jelly belly. So

37:29

when you open up these people, they

37:32

literally have all this mucus

37:34

and jelly-like material all

37:37

in their insides. It's really scary

37:39

to see and it's

37:41

a horrible condition. You end up removing

37:44

essentially

37:46

sometimes most of their colon, the

37:48

ovaries, uterus, some

37:50

pelvic structures. Essentially

37:54

you're scooping out so many of their organs because

37:56

this jelly, this mucinous

37:59

stuff. can just

38:01

affect everything. And it's a type of cancer, but it

38:03

can affect all organs inside

38:05

and spread everywhere. And it's quite horrible.

38:08

And the weirdest part is, that's

38:10

one part of the operation. And the second part of the

38:12

operation is, once you've removed

38:15

all of that jelly stuff and the cancer that

38:17

you can see, you then basically

38:20

put a little swimming pool full of hot

38:23

chemotherapy inside their belly. Oh, wow.

38:25

And you leave it for like half an hour or something. And

38:28

then you come back and you drain off that fluid.

38:30

Wow. Thank you for

38:32

telling me

38:32

that. Thank you so much for coming on this podcast. Thank

38:35

you. And again, I love what you're doing to

38:37

raise awareness. I always like, on these

38:39

podcasts and the stuff I do online, talk

38:41

about taboo topics, raise awareness about

38:43

invisible conditions and things. People tend

38:45

to talk about less. So, again, fantastic

38:48

to have you here and keep advocating for

38:50

the deaf community. Thank you for having me. So

38:52

that was Kasho Gurri. And to keep up that

38:54

theme of hearing loss and all things ears,

38:57

I want to get into the nitty gritty of

38:59

all of that nonsense you hear online. There are so

39:01

many myths about hearing loss, about

39:04

hearing impairment. And that's why we put if

39:06

it's not, let it be, to push those

39:08

ridiculous medical myths. If

39:12

it's not, cut it quack. Now one of the things I've

39:14

seen circulated online is the myth that

39:16

if you start wearing hearing aids at a young

39:19

age, you become overly dependent on

39:21

them. You hear sound in

39:23

your brain. I know that's a weird concept to understand,

39:26

but essentially your ears are a sensory organ

39:28

and they give the sound waves converted

39:31

to electricity to your brain. And

39:33

it's your brain that appreciates that sound,

39:35

that music, that cat meowing

39:38

or screaming. It all happens in your

39:40

brain. And if you deprive

39:42

your brain of those sounds,

39:45

there is evidence that slowly that part

39:47

of the brain, the auditory regions

39:49

begin to switch off. So actually stimulating

39:52

your brain and the auditory pathways

39:54

with sound from a young age is important

39:57

in communication, language development

39:59

and. that part of the brain which is essential

40:02

in interpreting those electronic signals

40:05

into sound. Now this other myth again

40:08

frequently circulated online and usually

40:10

on social media with some ridiculous air

40:13

cleaning trend as well. Wax

40:15

is unhygienic. Now you may have

40:17

seen on TikTok or Instagram these

40:19

videos growing viral about people you

40:21

know doing air candling where they put

40:24

some flames near their ears and they're basically

40:26

trying to get rid of ear wax because it's

40:28

unhygienic, it's dirty, it's not.

40:31

Now ear wax is a combination of sweat

40:33

and oils and skin and

40:35

it basically helps to trap harmful

40:38

toxins and bugs and microbes

40:41

that could cause problems in your ears. So it's actually

40:43

doing you a favour and helping you self

40:45

clean your ears. But in some cases it

40:48

can build up and it can stick to the

40:50

eardrum, stop it vibrating and

40:52

basically cause a mechanical obstruction

40:55

to the flow of those sound waves

40:58

and limit the amount of vibrations that the eardrum

41:00

can give to the inner ear. And in

41:02

those cases when ear wax builds

41:04

up to a dangerous level and

41:07

causes partial deafness or even a

41:09

fully blown conductive hearing deafness,

41:12

then you may need to see a healthcare

41:14

practitioner to get your wax removed,

41:16

micro suction or any other ways they may want

41:19

to do it. If you have really hard

41:21

ear wax which can be painful then

41:23

you might want to consider safely prescribed

41:26

biomedical professionals, some sodium bicarbonate

41:28

drops to soften that wax you can

41:30

use olive oil drops especially for itchy

41:33

ears. I would avoid those social media

41:35

trends of pouring strong

41:37

hydrogen peroxide into your ear that's not diluted,

41:40

ear candling, flames

41:42

near your ears and generally sticking things

41:44

in your ears that you wouldn't stick near

41:47

your private parts. the

42:00

cartilage on a night out. Oops. At

42:02

the time the doctor said because I was young it

42:04

would heal itself, nowadays it's causing

42:07

more and more pain and I wonder if

42:09

it's my age that's causing it to get worse

42:11

again. Can that happen? Would really

42:13

like to know. So Kieran that's a really important question

42:16

and I'm sorry you're struggling with this chronic knee pain

42:18

it seems for a long time now and again

42:20

there is a bit of nuance to be had

42:22

here and if you are having chronic

42:24

knee pain that is affecting your quality

42:26

of life that's debilitating you in any

42:29

way you should go and see a doctor

42:31

so you can be referred to a specialist to assess

42:33

you but based on what you've said the limited

42:35

evidence of what you said and understand as well

42:38

that I'm not able to examine you or have

42:40

any access to your specific history but

42:43

looking at the literature there is

42:45

a higher incidence of post-traumatic

42:48

knee osteoarthritis especially

42:50

after injuries like an ACL injury or

42:52

any sort of ligament or knee injury that you've

42:55

had. So a sports person

42:57

who's had an ACL injury or even yourself when

42:59

you're a young man you had an ACL injury that

43:02

will increase your risk of osteoarthritis

43:04

and definitely earlier osteoarthritis as

43:07

well and if you want to go back and listen

43:09

to my episode I did with Simon

43:11

Fleming who's an orthopedic surgeon we

43:13

cover osteoarthritis that narrowing

43:15

of the joint space in the knee where

43:18

essentially the cartilage thins to a point

43:20

where it's almost disappeared and you've got

43:22

the two bones that surround

43:24

the knee sort of rubbing and crunching against

43:27

each other and causing that pain but also

43:30

having an ACL injury or some sort of ligament

43:33

tear or some sort of injury

43:35

to the knee at an early age that can also

43:37

increase your risk of chronic pain in the knee

43:39

as well that is quite common so definitely

43:42

go and see a specialist to get that looked at

43:45

and you know simple painkillers don't work you

43:47

may need a combination of seeing

43:49

a specialist, physio, rehab

43:52

so you know hope that helps and

43:54

in this week's Crowd Signs Extra we've got a question

43:56

from Dolly from Dorset very nice part of

43:58

the country. she's getting

44:00

back into the gym and in her gym she's

44:03

been using a special scale that tells

44:05

her BMI and the BMI

44:08

has given her some degree of anxiety

44:11

and it's ruined her mood and

44:13

affecting her going to the gym. Is

44:15

the BMI all it's cut out to be? Is it

44:18

real? Is it worthwhile measuring your BMI?

44:20

I answer all that and more in this week's

44:23

CrowdScience Extra. Get in touch at thereferralpod.com.

44:26

Thanks for listening to this episode of The CrowdScience

44:28

Extra. So yes, I am a real doctor but it's important

44:30

to know that I'm not your specific doctor so if

44:33

you have any personal medical advice, please

44:35

contact your own healthcare professional and

44:37

remember, nothing on this show is intended to

44:40

provide or replace any specific

44:42

medical advice that you'd otherwise receive from

44:44

your own healthcare professional. This

44:46

has been a Sony Music Production. Production Management

44:48

was Jen Mistry. Videos by Ryan

44:51

O'Meara. Studio Engineer was Teddy Riley.

44:53

Music by Josh Carter, Grace Lakewood

44:56

and Hannah Talbot were the producers and Gainor

44:58

Marshall and Chris Skinner are the executive producers.

45:01

I know you absolutely love this podcast

45:03

and you're going to love even more. If you want to check out

45:05

all the other episodes and all of those lovely

45:08

health tips, hit the follow, give

45:10

me a subscribe and a five-star

45:12

review, obviously. I'll see you next time.