0:01

Keep your table sounding like

0:03

this with Cheerios Oat Crunch. It's

0:06

breakfast bliss that the whole family can enjoy

0:09

with energy from whole grains to help keep you going

0:12

along with four unique flavors, cinnamon,

0:14

berry, almond, and oats and honey. So

0:16

next breakfast remember, a little crunch

0:18

goes a long way. Learn more and shop

0:21

for Cheerios Oat Crunch at Cheerios.com.

0:24

24 grams to 30 grams whole grain per serving, at least 48

0:26

grams recommended daily.

0:31

Welcome to The Referral.

0:33

I'm Dr. Curran, a surgeon in the UK, and

0:35

this is your weekly fix of evidence-based

0:38

science and health information so you can have

0:40

a better life. It's summer, so that means

0:42

sun's out, guns out. And in this episode,

0:45

we're going to be discussing how you can build

0:47

muscle, but not any pseudoscientific

0:49

way, the evidence-based science-backed

0:51

method so you can build the most amount

0:54

of muscle and get ripped. We're also going

0:56

to take a deep dive into certain supplements

0:58

that you can take to enhance your muscle growth

1:00

and also weeding out some of the nonsense supplements

1:03

you hear about. And to talk about all things

1:05

muscle growth, I've got the perfect

1:07

guest. I've got Nathan Williams. He's

1:09

a personal trainer, sure, but even more importantly,

1:12

now make sure I get this right, he is a professional,

1:15

natural, bodybuilding world

1:18

champion, and he has been for a number of

1:20

years. He's an absolute beast in

1:22

the world of bodybuilding and muscle growth.

1:25

It's a pretty funny sport when you, if you

1:27

don't really know too

1:29

much about it, you see a bunch of oily,

1:31

muscly men in pants stand on the stage

1:33

staring at each other. Hairless. Yeah, exactly,

1:35

just bald. And he specializes in body transformations. He's

1:37

worked with school children, office goers,

1:40

and professional athletes as well. So

1:42

this episode will have something for you. A

1:45

simple way to do it is just one gram

1:47

of protein per pound

1:49

of your body weight. As you know, I

1:51

love answering your questions, so you'll get your

1:53

turn during crowd science. And if

1:55

you have a burning question you want to ask me, head

1:57

over to thereferralpod.com to get in

1:59

touch.

1:59

Also coming up we have If It Ducks

2:02

Like a Quack. This part of the show I'll be debunking

2:04

all those ridiculous myths you hear online.

2:07

But first up, what the health. Let's take

2:09

a quick look at what's going on in the world of science,

2:11

medicine and health.

2:14

This one is wild and might give

2:16

you something to smile about, literally. In the next

2:18

few years we might have a drug

2:21

that helps humans regrow teeth.

2:23

Now as you may know or may not know, teeth

2:26

when they're broken can't be regrown.

2:28

And to help us fill our toothy smiles,

2:30

Japanese scientists are about to start

2:33

a human clinical trial looking at a type

2:35

of medication that can help humans regrow

2:38

teeth. And according to the Japanese media,

2:40

by 2030 we could have

2:42

tooth regeneration medicine. It all started

2:44

back in 2021 when a team of

2:46

researchers at Kyoto University

2:49

published some interesting research which

2:51

suggested that a protein known as Usag1

2:54

limited the growth of teeth in mice.

2:56

By turning off the gene that codes for the production

2:58

of that protein Usag1, the mice

3:01

were able to regrow teeth. And the same

3:03

group of researchers later then created

3:05

a neutralizing antibody drug therapy

3:08

against that protein which also helped

3:10

the same mice regrow teeth. Now mice are

3:12

not humans but they also replicated

3:14

the same results in ferrets who have somewhat

3:17

of a similar dental pattern to humans

3:19

apparently. Animal studies are all well and good

3:21

for early research but we now need to know

3:24

if this same thing works in

3:26

humans and to that end, the clinical

3:28

trials are set to start in July 2024. I

3:31

mean the idea of growing new teeth is

3:33

every dentist's dream or potentially

3:35

nightmare. For example in the US over 25% of adults

3:38

over the age of 65 have 8 or less teeth. And 17%

3:43

of older people have lost all their teeth. Apart

3:46

from a cosmetic look, this can severely impact

3:48

a person's quality of life and also impact

3:50

on the type of diet they can consume. So keep

3:52

watching this space.

4:02

So a lot of you asked me how I balance

4:05

brainstorming for my videos and writing scripts,

4:08

planning my book chapters, my newsletter,

4:11

stuff to do with my life as a surgeon,

4:13

as a doctor in the hospital. It was a struggle, but

4:16

recently I've been using Notion AI

4:18

and it's essentially a workflow productivity

4:20

tool. I've never used these before, but it's

4:23

really simple. It's beautifully designed and it

4:25

allows me to streamline everything

4:27

and I can juggle several projects simultaneously

4:30

and I can write faster. It gives me

4:33

AI generated prompts. I can write better.

4:35

It picks up grammar mistakes and

4:37

tasks that normally take me hours, I can now do

4:39

in seconds or minutes. So

4:42

if you're keen to improve your productivity, you can

4:44

try Notion AI for free when you go to notion.com

4:47

slash referral. That's all lowercase,

4:49

notion.com slash referral

4:52

to try out the incredible power of AI

4:54

today. And when you use our link, you can support

4:56

our show as well. So that's Notion

4:58

AI at notion.com

5:01

slash referral.

5:02

Why were medieval priests

5:04

so worried that women were going to seduce men

5:06

with fish that they'd kept in their pants? Who

5:09

was the first gay activist? And

5:12

what on earth does the expression sneezing

5:14

in the cabbage mean? I'll tell you,

5:16

it's not a cookery technique, that's for sure.

5:18

Join me, Kate Lister on Betwixt the

5:20

Sheets, the history of sex scandal in society,

5:23

a podcast where we will be bed hopping throughout

5:26

time and civilization to

5:28

bring you the quirkiest and kinkiest stories

5:30

from history. What more could you

5:32

possibly want? Listen to Betwixt

5:34

the Sheets today, wherever it is that you get your

5:36

podcasts, a podcast by

5:38

History Hit.

5:44

Nathan

5:47

Williams, you're not just a personal

5:49

trainer, you are a world

5:51

champion bodybuilder. Tell

5:54

me a little bit about yourself and why you

5:56

got into what you're into.

5:57

Wow, what an intro. whole

6:00

fitness journey pretty much started from me

6:02

wanting to more look the part. I've

6:04

always been a very small young looking kid

6:07

as such. When I qualified to, I thought I

6:09

needed to pack on a little bit of muscle

6:12

just to be taken seriously in the industry.

6:14

And I guess it's echoed in a lot of people

6:17

that maybe because of a lack of confidence

6:19

when they were younger, they wanted to pack on

6:21

that size and muscle. And now to the

6:24

extreme you're doing, obviously you're going on

6:26

shows showing your physique to people,

6:28

which requires a lot of confidence. And

6:31

you do that really well and you're a champion, you know, multiple

6:33

time champion as well. So what

6:35

is the mindset behind going

6:38

from someone who like yourself, you confess

6:40

that

6:40

you're not confident to then showing

6:42

the world your body? Um,

6:45

to be honest with you, I only did it because

6:48

my friends at the time who I met in the industry,

6:50

they kind of roped me into doing it. They

6:52

were like, Nathan, you'll do really well. I'm like, no,

6:54

man. The same, the same for me. Like a lot

6:57

of, um, persuading it took from them. And

6:59

then I don't know if you've followed bodybuilding at all. You've seen

7:01

the little pants that they, they were, they were. Yeah,

7:03

they're the little, the body smugglers. Yeah. That's the

7:06

one. Yeah. I've actually got someone that I'm joking. I

7:08

ordered them and they came through the post and I was like, there's no way.

7:10

There's no way I'm going to be wearing these.

7:13

Um, so I said to my friends, no, I'm not doing this. I'm

7:15

out, but long story short, I eventually

7:18

built up the courage to, um, put them on.

7:21

Yeah. Managed to get on stage. So obviously getting

7:23

yourself to the point where you're ready to do it is one

7:25

thing, but then actually competing at a high

7:27

level, you know, that's going

7:29

to demand a high level of regimen

7:32

routine and a lot of restriction in

7:34

your life with what you can eat, what

7:36

you can drink, what supplements you

7:38

take your whole life has to be micro

7:41

planned, right? What's it like a day in your life

7:43

when you're in the run up to a competition? You

7:46

have to be very, very organized in terms of your

7:48

food and planning it accordingly,

7:51

because

7:51

the leaner you get, the

7:53

less your energy levels become. And

7:56

so you need to just make sure that you're prepared. Your training

7:58

sessions are. fueled adequately

8:01

and

8:03

be able to just go from waking up to going to bed without

8:05

just flaking completely. Yeah. In

8:07

terms of packing on size, for someone who is, I don't

8:10

know, they're an office worker, they're

8:13

a busy mum of three kids or even like

8:15

a teenager getting into bodybuilding, what

8:17

are some foundations that someone would have

8:19

to do? Absolute foundational and then we'll

8:21

go on to the intermediate advanced levels of building

8:24

muscle, but at the very beginning of someone's

8:26

muscle building journey, what would they need to

8:28

do? So it's a very, very simple

8:30

procedure. You've got lift weights,

8:33

learn correct technique and

8:35

do it consistently. That is pretty much

8:37

it. I mean, that's number one. I think number two

8:40

is finding a routine that fits

8:42

your lifestyle. I think a lot of people, they can't follow

8:44

what

8:45

I do. I train five times a week. I

8:48

always pretty much train at the same time, every

8:50

single time that I do train, which is during

8:53

the middle of the day. So

8:55

I'm able to squeeze and say two

8:58

or three meals in beforehand and then I can

9:00

have two or three meals after that. Not a lot of people can follow

9:02

that routine, but that fits my lifestyle.

9:05

But if you are someone who has a busy

9:07

job, you work nine to five, you've got three kids, you've

9:09

got a wife,

9:10

you might not be able to go to gym five times a week

9:13

and train at lunchtime. Your routine

9:15

may be waking up and getting

9:17

your workout done at first thing in the morning, say six o'clock,

9:20

and then only being able to go to the gym

9:22

two or three times a week. So that's

9:24

what you need to do. And then once you've found your routine,

9:26

you

9:27

stick at it. Yeah. I

9:29

think most people are obsessed with perfection

9:32

rather than just progress. So if they can't do 60

9:34

minutes, they think, nah, I'll just leave it. But 10

9:36

minutes is better than nothing.

9:38

I would still always recommend doing a little bit

9:41

more than 10 minutes. Especially

9:43

to build muscle. But

9:45

yeah, something is always better than doing nothing.

9:47

And you have to just set realistic expectations

9:49

of what you can consistently

9:52

do. I always have said

9:54

weight training is the best form of exercise

9:56

that you can do. I will say that confidently and proudly.

9:59

So obviously training.

9:59

Training is one part of the game. And for

10:02

me, I've found over the years myself as well,

10:05

whenever I'm training, and a lot of people at

10:07

home listening to this might find a similar

10:10

mindset where they think that training

10:14

is for fat loss, but actually the fat

10:16

loss happens in your diet, but

10:18

the training is just to build your

10:20

stamina, strength, endurance, and

10:23

just change your body composition. So

10:26

weight training is to get stronger and build muscle. That

10:29

is it. You don't go into the gym to

10:31

lift weights to lose fat. It will happen. And

10:34

in fact, the more muscle your body has on it, the more

10:36

it's able to

10:37

metabolize food. You can get more calories

10:39

in you. And

10:42

it does make the whole fat loss process

10:44

much easier than the more muscle you have on your

10:46

body. So when someone is trying to

10:49

build muscle, they have to be in some sort

10:51

of caloric surplus. The body needs more

10:53

energy so it can synthesize

10:56

more muscle rather than the amount of muscle being

10:58

broken down. But I see

11:00

a lot of

11:01

younger people and even people who are

11:03

not in their teens, when they're in

11:05

that muscle building phase, they

11:07

eat like they're at a buffet every day. They think they need

11:09

to get so much. That's not the case. Your body

11:11

just needs a little bit more than what

11:14

you're probably getting right now, right? Exactly. I've

11:17

done it. I've been that

11:19

guy to pile on two and a half stone, make close to three

11:21

stone to bring it back down. You

11:24

don't need to do that. Yeah. What happens

11:26

is it becomes harder and just a longer process of getting rid of

11:28

all that body fat you put on.

11:31

My thing now, especially right now, you

11:33

only need to be in a slight surplus.

11:35

Anything between say 250 to 500

11:38

calories may be over

11:40

the calories that you'll consume to maintain your weight.

11:42

One of the most important building blocks for

11:44

muscle building is protein. The amino

11:47

acids that your body derives from the protein sources

11:49

that you're consuming go to muscle protein synthesis.

11:53

In terms of protein, people think

11:55

there are a lot of myths around there which we'll come on to,

11:57

but in terms of consuming protein, for

11:59

some

11:59

Someone who is starting a journey,

12:02

who is not like a regular gym goer, how

12:05

do they calculate how much protein they

12:07

need for their body weight or for their

12:09

lives? A simple way to do it is just

12:12

one gram of protein per pound

12:14

of your body weight. Sometimes your

12:16

lean body weight, so whatever your weight without

12:18

any body power. Someone who is an office

12:21

worker, weighs 70 kilos, doesn't

12:23

do any exercise, wants to start exercising.

12:26

If it's much weight and then one

12:28

gram of protein per pound

12:30

of body weight, that's a simple equation

12:33

to stick to.

12:34

So when you're

12:38

building muscle and trying to pack on more size,

12:41

what do your rest days look like and why

12:43

is that important for you?

12:44

I don't like my whole life to be around the

12:46

gym. I always give myself two days

12:49

completely off the weights. And

12:51

I think maybe later on in life, once I get

12:53

a few more responsibilities, maybe it will

12:56

reduce again.

12:57

So I always have a Wednesday and

13:00

a Sunday off completely off the

13:02

gym. But you still exercise on those days?

13:04

I would walk, I would walk, I would be out, still

13:07

get my steps in, always

13:10

have my step tracker on me. So I always just

13:12

go out, got two dogs,

13:13

so that's my exercise, I get chores

13:16

done. So it's important as well for

13:18

recovery to have those rest days. Obviously

13:20

the muscle building is actually you in

13:22

the gym breaking down your muscle fibers

13:25

and the rest days are for the muscle fibers to start repairing.

13:28

I see a lot of people, especially when you started out, even

13:30

when I first was on my gym journey

13:32

when I was 18 years old, I would be

13:35

obsessed with I have to train every single day, seven days

13:37

a week. And actually for a while, I found

13:39

myself being even sorer and less

13:42

gains being made because

13:43

you're over training and that's

13:46

catabolic to your body and your body's going to be in a

13:48

breakdown state. Yeah, and you can't maintain that. And

13:50

I think you find you don't, you

13:52

probably start resenting going to the gym if you know that you have

13:54

to go every single day. And I think that's where people

13:56

start lacking the motivation to go.

13:59

Because you've been obviously lifting weights for so many

14:02

years now, you must have got some

14:04

injuries. Listen,

14:07

every single, especially if you're trying to push yourself

14:09

to the absolute limit, you're

14:11

gonna

14:12

get niggles, you're gonna get some sort

14:15

of pain. It doesn't mean that I stop training.

14:19

I still train, it doesn't take me away from the gym. Listen,

14:21

there's always a way to get from A to B.

14:23

I'm

14:24

very in tune with what I can

14:26

do and with my body and

14:29

always find the way around it. When I see a patient

14:31

in hospital, for example, if I perform surgery on a patient

14:33

in hospital, they are stuck in hospital for a

14:35

number of days or weeks. And just

14:37

being in bed and not moving around as normal,

14:39

they are going into muscle atrophy. They're

14:41

losing muscle. So when they come out,

14:44

they have lost a lot of weight, but a lot of that weight is

14:46

lean mass, lean muscle, which is bad.

14:49

But then they need to start now training

14:51

again and building up their muscle. How does

14:53

someone post surgery, recovery,

14:56

or any post illness limit

14:58

the amount of muscle loss

14:59

and what would you guide them on?

15:01

Always take control of the things

15:03

that you can control. This is apparent

15:05

as well. If you're apparently broken

15:07

like one side of your body, I don't know if this is actually true.

15:09

But if you're to still train the other side,

15:12

it helps kind of stimulate the recovery on the other side. Yeah,

15:15

I think to some extent. Yeah. Okay. So

15:17

things like that.

15:18

If it's your broken arm, you can

15:21

still walk, your legs still work. Yeah. There's always

15:23

a way around, as I said, getting from A

15:25

to B. Okay. You might not be able to do the training

15:27

regime that you were

15:29

doing before, but you can still move. Okay.

15:31

You want to do things to make you feel good and

15:34

exercise will always do that. Do you believe

15:36

in constantly trying to like shock your

15:38

muscles or varying your workouts?

15:41

No. Is that even a thing? No, for me, if

15:43

you were to go through my Instagram page

15:45

right now, you'll pretty much see

15:47

the same workout. I'm good with that. I'm

15:50

good to do that. I can just be consistent

15:52

as possible because I know there's always a slight

15:54

way to make just a little bit of progress, you know? And

15:56

I always know that I can make a certain

15:58

lift just that little bit better.

15:59

are marginal gains, but there's a lot

16:02

of people who feel like they need to change their workouts

16:04

all the time. I will do it with a client. I'll change their program

16:06

every, say, two months or three

16:08

months just to give themselves something to

16:10

look forward to, but I don't need to do that for myself. You

16:12

know, it all depends on the individual

16:15

and I feel like to get better at your craft, you need to just

16:18

practice the same things over and over

16:20

and over again. Are you taking any extra

16:22

supplements to aid your muscle growth?

16:25

Yes, I take protein powder. Yeah.

16:27

And creating monhydrate.

16:29

Tell me about the creatine

16:32

monhydrate. Why do you take it? I mean, that

16:34

is for me, that seems like based on the research

16:36

available, that's the lowest hanging fruit

16:39

for anyone. Whether you're a man, woman,

16:41

you know, kid,

16:43

anyone who is, even if you're

16:45

not training, creatine seems to be something

16:47

that you should probably be taking. Why do

16:49

you take it? Apparently, it's the best supplement

16:52

you can take. It's as close to taking, but at least there where it's naturally

16:54

as you can. Yeah. So what it does,

16:57

it helps just give you a little bit more energy

16:59

so you can tell you're gone for longer and

17:01

you'll get just that little bit more out

17:03

of your workout. So it's not directly

17:06

giving you muscle building, but it's powering

17:08

your workout and giving you more energy

17:10

so you can train more intensely

17:12

and for longer and you

17:13

recover quicker, which then leads to

17:15

more gains. Exactly. So you take

17:17

creatine monhydrate as opposed

17:20

to any other variations of creatine. You think that's

17:22

the best. Apparently, it does exactly the same

17:24

thing. It's

17:25

affordable and you can get a whole load

17:27

of it and it lasts for

17:29

one serving of it,

17:31

one order of it will last me like six months. How

17:33

much do you take on a daily basis? Five grams.

17:35

That's literally one scoop. Apparently, it's

17:38

best to probably take it after workout. I

17:40

just take it whenever. Whenever, once a day.

17:42

Yeah, because I've got my routine with my days

17:45

and I'll just take it before a workout. In terms

17:47

of things which are a no-no, what about

17:49

alcohol? Do you consume any alcohol? Don't

17:52

do anything to an excess excess. I

17:54

would only drink if I am

17:57

maybe celebrating a very

17:59

close. close friends event

18:01

where there's a wedding and that's

18:03

very rarely. And I've only got a handful

18:06

of friends as well. I don't binge

18:08

drink. I'll probably have like one or two max

18:10

and that's pretty much it. Cause that's gonna

18:12

directly affect muscle gain and just

18:14

general body composition, isn't it?

18:17

And just routine as well. I wanna be

18:19

able to wake up the next day and just get on my, I've always got

18:21

things to do. I got time to be sitting in bed recovering.

18:24

And recovering, yeah. I ain't got time for that. So the alcohol

18:26

directly affects your, you

18:28

know, body composition, your gains while

18:31

you're drinking it. But then also the negative

18:33

effects continue after as you're recovering,

18:35

it's gonna affect your sleep, which we know is crucial

18:37

for maintaining muscle mass and building

18:40

muscle mass. It's gonna affect your energy levels,

18:42

your mood, your appetite and all of these things,

18:44

which will throw your routine off kilter, right?

18:47

Everything,

18:47

everything you just said late night

18:49

will lead to you going to the kebab

18:51

shop at night and getting in the

18:53

next 2,000 calories on top of what you're

18:56

currently doing. Then the next day you're in bed recovering

18:59

from all the alcohol you just drank. And then

19:01

before you know it, you've just

19:03

undone a lot of gains. How's your

19:05

sleep? Because we've mentioned a little bit about

19:07

supplements and routine and consistency, but

19:10

there's a whole branch of other things

19:12

which are important for muscle maintenance

19:15

and growth, including sleep. So how is that for you?

19:17

Sleep's all right. I probably can sleep,

19:20

I'd say another hour,

19:21

but where life is right now, I can't.

19:26

Plus, love islanders on at night. Oh, it's

19:28

Andrew. So I'll probably

19:30

get to bed about, say, 10, just after 10

19:32

and then wake up about 5.30. So it's a good

19:34

seven and a half hours. That's decent, yeah. I

19:37

do feel like I can probably get another half an hour. Do you

19:39

feel refreshed when you wake up in the morning? Not

19:42

really. No. It takes me a long

19:44

time, about half an hour of just like getting

19:47

myself ready. So I need to try and improve that. Do

19:49

you drink caffeine in the mornings to try

19:52

and wake up? Are you requiring caffeine? I do. Yeah.

19:55

I do. I need

19:57

to, that's my, yeah, I need coffee in the morning. obviously

20:00

coffee can help to spur

20:02

your workout as well. Do you take any of these

20:04

pre-workout stimulants to? I take

20:06

them all pre-workout beforehand. What do you take? It's

20:09

just a brand that got sent to me by some friends. Beta

20:12

alanine? I think it's got beta alanine

20:14

in it. It's just a branded

20:17

pre-workout and it's got those

20:19

ingredients in it. And again, similar

20:21

to not quite on a crazy level, but it just

20:24

gives you that motivation and energy to

20:26

just stimulate you to power you through

20:28

the workout. Sometimes like a placebo, you know, if

20:30

you know you're taking that, then you're like, right, and it's going to train

20:33

now. And you mentioned, obviously, protein powder

20:35

is something that you take. In terms

20:37

of your protein consumption,

20:39

I mean, you eat meat

20:42

and vegetables, obviously, but do you

20:44

find there's any difference between

20:46

consuming animal protein versus plant

20:49

protein? Can you see any difference in

20:51

someone or any colleagues of yours who are

20:53

maybe vegan bodybuilders in

20:56

the gains that they can make in consuming animal

20:58

versus plant protein? Yeah, I think that

21:00

it needs to have, I

21:01

think it's called leucine. Yeah,

21:03

you get in the meats. It's like, so the higher

21:06

the leucine that is in your protein, the

21:09

better it is for muscle building. Okay,

21:11

and you're not going to get that in a

21:13

lot of vegan plant-based

21:15

products. So you can still be

21:18

a plant-based bodybuilder, but maybe

21:20

just need to be cognizant that you

21:23

may need to supplement certain things to completely

21:25

optimize your muscle growth

21:27

and things like that. Even protein powder

21:30

and protein drinks, anything

21:32

like that, that's not essential, but it's just a quick,

21:35

convenient way to just get more protein, right? Yeah,

21:37

so look, I'm always on the

21:39

go and I haven't got the time,

21:41

and a lot of people don't have the time to be sitting down

21:43

at a table out there top way

21:45

eating their chicken and their rice and their broccoli. And

21:48

some people just need something quick that

21:50

you can consume in 30 seconds, hence why I would

21:53

probably consume a protein shake after

21:55

a workout because it literally takes me 20 seconds to

21:58

blend up and that's me done.

21:59

you train a wide variety

22:02

of people and in your other

22:04

job where you're a bodybuilder as

22:07

well and you're competing in these shows,

22:09

you come across men and women, have

22:12

you seen any differences

22:14

in training regimes that

22:16

are helpful for specific

22:19

for men or for women or does it not matter?

22:21

It depends on the goal. There's

22:25

loads of different categories in a bodybuilding

22:27

show. You get the bodybuilders who just want to try and pack

22:29

on as much muscle as possible. Then you'll get

22:31

a few bikini girls who their goal is

22:33

to try and look as slender and shapely

22:36

as possible. So their regime may

22:38

be training legs three times

22:40

a week and a guy will probably just

22:42

train them maybe once or max twice.

22:46

So the regimes can

22:49

change all depending on the actual

22:51

goal and the look that you want to have. And

22:53

clearly, obviously, physiologically

22:55

between men and women, men have a higher

22:57

testosterone amount which is obviously an anabolic

23:00

steroid, natural steroid. Women

23:02

will find it harder to make the same gains

23:05

as men for a physiological reason, right?

23:07

Yeah, exactly. When you're training, is there anything

23:09

extra that you would do for your

23:12

female clients instead of your male

23:14

clients? No.

23:15

Same. You'd give them

23:17

same workouts, same diet plans? The workout is just relevant

23:20

to the individual. The calories are going to be slightly

23:22

less just because of their weight and the amount of

23:25

muscle that they've got on their body. Everything's

23:27

always tailored to that individual. So I was

23:29

watching this thing recently on Netflix. You

23:31

saw the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary,

23:33

the three part, which I loved. And that-

23:36

What a man. What an incredible way. I

23:38

didn't know the full story about how he came from this

23:40

Austrian farm boy basically to top

23:43

of the world. And that first part of the

23:45

documentary

23:45

where he suddenly starts

23:47

just like you were saying earlier in the episode,

23:50

just starting lifting weights, doing the same

23:52

thing every day. And he ends up topping

23:54

these competitions.

23:56

The bodybuilding competitions that we saw

23:59

Arnold Schwarzenegger-

23:59

go through. Is that

24:02

the same as what you're experiencing in your shows or

24:04

is it different? And what are they judging

24:07

you on? It's a pretty funny sport when you,

24:09

if you don't really know too

24:11

much about it, you see a bunch of oily, muscly

24:14

men in pants stand on the stage, staring

24:16

at you. Hairless. Yeah, exactly. Just bald. So

24:18

first of all, you've got symmetry rounds, so how

24:20

symmetrical your body is and balance. And

24:24

then muscularity rounds, so you've got three rounds,

24:26

symmetry, so how, and then muscular,

24:28

how much muscle you got on your body. And then the third

24:30

one, you just do like a posing routine.

24:32

Okay. So whatever song that you want. This is like, what's

24:34

your song? Ah, you know, a

24:37

little bit of, um, love a Spice Girl.

24:39

Oh, yeah. Love a Spice Girl. So

24:42

you can just choose whatever you want. I mean,

24:44

symmetry, definition and

24:46

muscle size. Obviously you can

24:48

do a lot to change those things,

24:51

but then you're also limited by your anatomy

24:53

and genetics to some degree. Right.

24:55

So I mean, anatomically and genetically,

24:57

you may be far more blessed than someone else.

25:00

How, to what extent can you maximize

25:02

all of that? I

25:04

mean, naturally I've got a very X shape

25:06

body, um, but I've had to

25:08

build muscle on top of it to make it look

25:11

presentable on stage. So if I, before

25:13

I, I trained, there's nowhere I could have stepped on stage,

25:15

how I look without any muscle, I just looked weird. And

25:18

then it's about presenting your physique as best

25:20

as you can on stage as well. So you may be high,

25:22

the weak points and

25:24

show strong points. And so

25:26

you can kind of like manipulate that a little bit,

25:28

maybe very slightly. And, uh, you

25:30

said, obviously these bodybuilders, they have to

25:32

be like oiled up and that's presumably so

25:35

they look, it defines

25:37

and it highlights certain little muscle

25:39

grooves and things more. And also

25:41

needs to be bored. Is that head

25:44

to toe need to be like shaved everywhere?

25:46

Well, you might as well get rid of it all

25:48

as you're doing it. Don't leave little patches,

25:51

get rid of it all. Just wow. Everything,

25:53

everywhere. Streamline,

25:54

aerodynamic, straight in. Yeah. Yeah.

25:56

What's the, um,

25:58

obviously this is such an

25:59

extreme sport, to some degree, because

26:02

you have to be ultra low body fat,

26:04

you have to be so regimental in your training

26:07

to get the muscle definition and the obliques

26:09

and serratus anterior, also

26:12

known as the boxer's muscle, just underneath

26:14

on the sides of your rib cage that you

26:16

see those lines. What's the kind of downside

26:19

psychologically of being in that kind

26:21

of state around that world

26:23

where everything is so

26:26

restrictive and you have to look a certain way?

26:29

It's obviously amazing

26:29

for building muscle and confidence, but also

26:32

the dark side can lead you

26:34

to dangerous eating habits and relationships with

26:36

your body and food. Yeah. So

26:38

it's not sustainable. No. You

26:40

cannot maintain, or you can, but it's very, very hard

26:42

to maintain single digit body fat levels over

26:45

a long period of time.

26:46

The whole fat loss process is

26:48

exactly the same. It's just literally eating less than

26:51

what you burn, but the lower

26:54

your body fat percentage comes is where you need to be

26:56

a little bit smarter with your choices. And

26:59

eating certain things to make you feel maybe a little bit fuller,

27:01

just to kind of keep you going for longer. So

27:04

there's no, like you don't want to eat a donut being 4%

27:06

body fat because that's literally

27:10

It's not satiating. No, not at all. That's

27:12

like literally a quarter of your daily calories. You're going

27:14

to flake by midday. Wait, wait, say

27:16

that again. So a donut would be a quarter of your daily

27:18

calories at that stage, their low end.

27:21

Wow. Yeah, probably.

27:22

Just before a competition, like 10 seconds before

27:24

going out on stage, what would your body fat

27:26

percentage be? 4% or 5%? Maybe.

27:29

I've never actually measured my body fat percentage, but you

27:32

just know. I've been there for so long. You just know

27:34

when you're ready. And for you, what

27:36

would be your calorie intake on that day, for example,

27:38

or the days leading up to it? It's not

27:41

really days. It's more the whole process because you do

27:43

a thing called peak week where you manipulate

27:45

your carbohydrates. Okay. So

27:47

less water weight carried? I'll do a carb

27:50

deplete and then a carb load. And

27:54

then just let them out and then water the

27:56

plate as well after the

27:58

load's done. So your dehydrate here.

27:59

yourself to some degree before the competition.

28:02

So you are as shredded and the

28:05

structures are as visible as possible. Exactly. And

28:08

you can't maintain that. In your mind,

28:10

what is actually happening to you on the day

28:12

of the show? How's your libido?

28:15

How's your mood? Your appetite?

28:17

Wet noodle. Yeah, you just got a wet noodle.

28:20

He said you're shrunk everywhere.

28:23

That's a shrunk. That's a shrunk. Still good. Because

28:27

at that, a lot of elite

28:29

level kind of show competitors,

28:33

obviously, even though they look huge,

28:35

their testosterone actually plummets

28:37

somewhat because you're in that hypo,

28:40

low calorie state. Think so. Yeah. I think

28:43

a lot of people do it to such an extreme. I'm good.

28:46

They get me wrong. But I think when people do

28:48

it to an extreme for so long, for

28:50

me, everything is taper down very gradually.

28:52

I'll do a slow diet. So my diet

28:55

isn't three months where a lot of people do, where it's just so

28:57

extreme. You can't keep that up. My diet will

28:59

be from like eight, nine months of very,

29:01

very slow diet. And so like last

29:03

year, for example, when I completed, my

29:05

diet started in March and my last show was in November.

29:07

Wow. Yeah.

29:08

Okay. Is there anything else

29:11

in your armory that you

29:14

do, which is just a life hack for

29:16

muscle building and the other supplements that you take?

29:18

Nothing at all, man. I've been accused of doing

29:21

whatever before, but nothing Why do

29:23

people accuse you of taking steroids?

29:25

I think number one, achieving a certain goal,

29:28

being in a certain way. I was

29:30

accused of doing it from six months of training. Really?

29:33

I was 18 years old and being like, what

29:35

is this? So genetically you are gifted

29:38

and you worked hard as well. So you had a good

29:40

frame and good body and you were accused because

29:42

you looked too good. Basically, maybe, or

29:45

as the results I've saw, but

29:46

in the short amount of time, but

29:48

I've always known what hard work is. And I

29:51

think at that stage of my life, when I was 18, I

29:53

had nothing to lose.

29:54

And I literally had to work as hard as I

29:56

physically could, because I wanted to succeed.

29:58

And then I wanted to be a good. PT I wanted to be taken

30:01

seriously in the industry I wanted to look

30:03

the part you know I really wanted to do this you

30:06

know I've always wanted to have a good job and I

30:08

had as I said I had nothing to lose man I just

30:10

wanted to give it all out all I could. That's amazing

30:12

I mean you certainly given a fresh perspective

30:15

on muscle growth and an insight into that

30:17

kind of slightly crazy world that you're

30:19

into Nathan it's been a pleasure

30:22

having you just before I let you go you do have

30:24

a question for me I don't know what it is. Right

30:26

so question for you what's your

30:29

current relationship like of the gym and

30:32

how's that going for you? Yeah I recently

30:34

posted something on my socials on

30:36

my Facebook just almost

30:38

giving accountability for myself

30:41

to go to the gym more so

30:43

I first started you know really going

30:46

to the gym hard in my first year of

30:48

uni so 18 I was living across the

30:51

road from the gym in my halls so

30:54

I was you know bunking lectures and going to the gym

30:56

every day with my mates and it was fun

30:58

you know you still like those newbie gains you start gaining

31:01

muscle quickly you start increasing your strength

31:03

quickly and I enjoyed that and

31:05

one of the key things for me was building

31:08

upper body strength so I could bowl

31:10

faster in cricket okay I love playing cricket

31:13

and I wanted to bowl faster and faster

31:15

so I needed that upper body shoulder strength

31:17

to throw things fast the ball faster

31:20

basically so that was one of the main things I wanted more

31:22

that functional strength yeah

31:24

but obviously during uni that 18

31:26

to 24 year phase when I was at uni you know

31:29

you're still very young and you know you

31:31

care a lot about what other people

31:33

think girls stuff like that so

31:35

I obviously was also concerned about the aesthetic

31:38

side of things but I I

31:40

very quickly realized as well that this

31:43

has only happened in the later years where actually

31:45

now I care less about aesthetics

31:48

but I care more now about functional

31:50

strength and just being healthy

31:52

and like lifting heavy I

31:54

want to lift heavy stuff but I don't

31:56

care about you know not having a six-pack

31:59

or looking as

31:59

certain way because

32:02

I'm

32:02

not trying to increase them out. I go to gym again,

32:04

trying to balance social media, work as a surgeon,

32:07

dog and gym. It's hard to fit

32:09

everything else in, but the next 12 months,

32:12

I'm going to really go hard to push

32:14

my body to the limit like I was when I

32:16

was at uni and that I've maybe, you

32:19

know, straight off the path a little bit over the last

32:21

few years, just because I've failed to balance everything

32:23

in my life, but try to smash it again

32:25

over the next 12 months so I

32:27

can be Dr. Swole. Yes, I

32:30

like that. I like that a lot. 12 months

32:32

from

32:32

now. 12 months, yeah, you're going to be checking in on

32:34

me. I'll be watching you. Thank you so much.

32:37

You've been a breath of fresh air on this show, talking

32:39

all about the science of muscle building.

32:41

So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having

32:43

me. It's been a pleasure.

32:45

So where can people find you online if they

32:47

want to follow your journey and learn more? Instagram,

32:50

NathanPT. I've just started the YouTube

32:52

channel now, so you can check me up on

32:54

there

32:55

and threads as well now. Oh yeah. Yeah.

32:57

So now

33:01

we

33:01

have if

33:04

it ducks like a quack. This is the bit

33:06

I truly love. It's what I do best,

33:08

debunking myths and misinformation

33:11

online. So let's get to the first one. You should

33:13

cut out all carbs if you want a six pack.

33:15

Now there's lots of layers to unpick here. Number

33:18

one, it doesn't need to be your life goal

33:20

to get a six pack and having a six

33:22

pack doesn't necessarily mean that someone is

33:24

healthy. And if you want to really dive into the science

33:26

behind it, everyone has a six pack. Everyone

33:29

has a rectus abdominis muscle

33:31

and it's just covered by varying degrees

33:33

of fat above it. For the average person getting a six

33:36

pack means having a low enough body fat

33:38

percentage so that you can see the

33:40

grooves and indentations in the rectus

33:42

abdominis muscle and a common route for people to

33:44

achieve a six pack or more definition,

33:47

maybe losing body fat by means

33:49

of a calorie restriction, having less

33:52

calories consumed than calories

33:54

burned. Carbohydrate rich foods tend to

33:56

be on the whole less satiating things

33:58

like rice, bread, and food. crisps,

34:01

these things make you feel less full, they're also

34:03

more moreish, you tend to overeat

34:06

because they're hyper palatable, they're convenient,

34:08

they're easy to digest, so you tend to eat more

34:10

of them and you can also end up eating more

34:13

calories. So people who tend to go on these

34:15

carb free diets or severely restrict

34:17

the amount of carbs they have tend to

34:19

lose a lot of weight rapidly initially

34:22

because they cut out some of these hyper

34:24

palatable high energy foods

34:27

which are easy to over consume. But carbohydrates

34:29

are a very

34:29

important macronutrient, it's your

34:32

brain's primary source of fuel, it's

34:34

used in your muscles and you generally need

34:37

it as a fuel source. And carbohydrate

34:39

rich foods also tend to be foods which

34:41

are high in fiber as well. If you think about

34:43

your grains, beans, all of these

34:45

things they usually have a moderate

34:48

to high carb amount but also a moderate

34:50

to high fiber amount and we know and if

34:52

you especially if you listen to me you know that fiber

34:55

is key for your gut health and your

34:57

bowel routine as well. You need fats, you

34:59

need proteins, you need fiber and

35:01

you need carbohydrates because life without

35:04

carbohydrates is just a very sad

35:06

life. Your teeth need to be

35:08

white. Societal expectations

35:11

have us thinking that teeth need to be pearly

35:13

white, they do not. The natural

35:15

color of your teeth is actually off-white

35:17

and maybe even a little hint of yellow.

35:20

Now there are certain things you do and certain

35:22

habits that you might subscribe to which make

35:25

your teeth stained even more yellow

35:27

than they should be, things like smoking

35:29

or excessive

35:29

tea or coffee consumption. But

35:32

the myth that your teeth are meant to be white

35:34

is just that, it's a complete myth and

35:36

the overwhelming flood of influences online

35:39

with their shiny glow-in-the-dark teeth make

35:41

you think that your teeth need to be white, they

35:43

don't. In fact even with age our

35:45

teeth will probably become slightly more yellow

35:48

as the enamel, the outer coating of

35:50

the teeth slightly wears away and

35:52

the inner more yellowish surface is revealed.

35:55

In fact as you grow older the outer

35:57

enamel layer that white layer wears away

35:59

and it

35:59

exposes that inner slightly yellowish

36:02

dentin layer. And as a precautionary note,

36:04

this is also why you should avoid brushing

36:06

very aggressively because you can actually damage

36:09

and wear away that outer enamel layer.

36:21

Hello, listeners of The Referral. It's

36:23

me, Dr. Curran. Are you tired of scouring

36:25

the internet for medical answers only to end

36:28

up on shady websites? Is your For You

36:30

page full of TikTok experts pushing

36:32

miracle weight loss drugs and superfoods?

36:35

There's so many myths and nonsensical health advice

36:37

out there on the internet, but on our weekly Crowd

36:39

Science episodes, I'm helping real

36:41

listeners like you get the truth. Subscribe

36:44

to The Referral Plus, and you'll get access to additional

36:46

Crowd Science episodes every week,

36:49

devoted entirely to answering your questions.

36:51

Plus, as an added bonus, you'll enjoy ad-free

36:54

listening of all our episodes. You

36:56

can even try it for free. Just head over to The Referral

36:59

Show page on Apple Podcasts and click on

37:01

the Try Free button at the top of the

37:03

page to start listening today. Have

37:05

a question of your own? Visit thereferralpod.com

37:08

and submit it. There is no question

37:10

too weird or too awkward for me. So

37:12

what are you waiting for? Don't let the internet deceive

37:15

you. Subscribe now to The Referral Plus

37:17

and start getting answers today.

37:20

This episode is brought to you by Seed's

37:22

DSO1 Daily Synbiotic, a two-in-one

37:25

probiotic and prebiotic formulated with 24 clinically

37:28

and scientifically studied strains to support

37:30

healthy regularity and your gut, immune,

37:32

and skin health. Optimize your gut

37:34

health. Visit seed.com slash Spotify

37:37

with code SPOTIFY for 30% off your

37:39

first month of Seed's DSO1 Daily

37:41

Symbiotic. These statements have not been evaluated

37:43

by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended

37:46

to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

37:51

Just before we go, let's have some listener questions

37:54

in Crowd Science. The first question this week

37:56

is from Karen. As an allergy sufferer,

37:58

I'm struggling to tell the difference.

37:59

between the wide range of antihistamines

38:02

on the market. They vary in price and

38:04

I assume in other areas. Could you provide

38:06

advice on what to look for and does more

38:09

expensive mean more effective?

38:11

Karen, that's a great question, let's dive

38:13

into it. Now during allergy season you may

38:15

be flawed by pollen and you may have lost the

38:17

war against nature but fear not,

38:20

there are some things that you need to do. Medication

38:22

may help a lot of people but you need to also

38:24

make sure that you're doing these other things as well.

38:27

These are very basics that you should be doing. Every

38:29

time you go out try to wear wrap around

38:31

sunglasses so the pollen doesn't come into

38:34

contact with your eyes and trigger those itchy

38:36

annoying hay fever type symptoms. Try

38:38

to limit the amount of washing that you do outdoors

38:41

because the pollen can get trapped in your laundry

38:43

and then you bring it inside the home. And even

38:46

if it's hot try to limit the amount

38:48

of times you open doors or windows

38:50

because the pollen can come inside and

38:53

also harass you indoors. Pollen

38:55

can also get trapped in your nostrils so

38:57

you may want to irrigate these with some sort

38:59

of neti pot or a nasal spray

39:01

to get rid of the pollen that's trapped in your

39:04

nose and it can get into your sinuses as well.

39:07

Now these are all conservative non-medical

39:09

options and clearly these may not work

39:11

for everyone and you might also want

39:14

to try some medication to help relieve symptoms.

39:16

You have some basic antihistamines and

39:18

medications that you can use specifically for hay

39:20

fever. Chlorphenamine which is an antihistamine,

39:23

ceterizine, loratadine you may

39:25

have heard of these things. And another thing now

39:27

which is available in the UK, not

39:29

prescription anymore I'm not sure about other countries

39:32

but it's called fexofenadine hydrochloride

39:35

that is the generic trade name of

39:37

this medication. Now as you mentioned some of

39:39

these allergy hay fever medication

39:41

may vary in their price and

39:44

that's why you need to look at the active

39:46

ingredient. For example I mentioned fexofenadine

39:48

hydrochloride, look for the active

39:51

ingredient in this and pick the medication

39:53

that is the cheapest. Often the branding

39:56

makes something more expensive, you can get

39:58

the same quality, the same quality. same

40:00

efficacy for something that is a lot

40:02

cheaper as long as you focus on buying

40:04

the thing with the active ingredient. As

40:07

always, this is not medical advice so if you're

40:09

planning on starting a medication, you need

40:11

to make sure you consult with your doctor or are

40:13

at least aware of any drug interactions they may

40:15

have with your existing medication and

40:18

also be mindful of any medication

40:20

allergies you might have as well. Make sure

40:22

you look out for the active ingredient, that's

40:24

the main takeaway from this and also make

40:27

sure you can reduce your exposure

40:29

to pollen by all these conservative measures

40:31

as well. You may find if you do those things you

40:33

may not even need medication. Karen, thank

40:35

you very much for that question. Hope that you can

40:37

beat pollen this season. Let's move on

40:39

to our next one. And our next question from

40:42

Nicole.

40:42

I've been taking an anti-anxiety medication

40:45

sertraline for the last six months and I think

40:47

my libido has reduced. Is it possible

40:49

that it's related

40:50

to the meds and if so,

40:51

what should I do? I don't want

40:53

to come off it because it's really podcast and

40:56

hit the button which says try free to the

40:58

cause question and many more questions.

41:00

That is a download to becoming a potential episode of

41:02

the referral, size and muscle.

41:04

Hope you enjoyed this week and learnt lots of actionable

41:06

tools. I'll catch you next week. Thanks for

41:09

listening to this episode of The Referral. Yes,

41:11

I am a real doctor but it's important to know that

41:13

if you require medical advice specific

41:16

to you, you should contact your own medical

41:18

professional. And remember, nothing on this

41:20

show is intended to

41:21

provide or replace specific medical

41:24

advice that you would receive from your own

41:26

healthcare professional.

41:27

If you enjoyed this episode of The Referral,

41:29

make sure you catch up on all the others and hit

41:31

the follow button so you're up to date every

41:33

week. And whilst you're there, consider leaving

41:35

a five-star review because you found

41:38

the show excellent. This has been a

41:40

Sony Music Production. Production management

41:42

was Lily Hamblee, cameras by Teddy Riley,

41:44

videos by Ryan O'Meara, studio

41:47

engineer was Mathias Torres, music

41:49

by Josh Carter, Grace Lakewood and

41:51

Hannah Talbot were the producers and Gaynor

41:53

Marshall and Chris Skinner are the executive producers.

42:00

you