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0:32

Welcome to The Referral. I'm Dr. Curran,

0:35

a surgeon in the NHS. Now, if

0:37

you like science, medicine, or you're

0:39

just interested in improving your own health, then

0:41

this is the perfect podcast for you. Today's

0:43

topic is an important one and one which

0:45

affects everyone. It's mental health, and

0:48

specifically, male mental health. I'm

0:50

joined by Capitol Radio presenter, singer,

0:52

and Dancing on Ice winner, Sonny J. We

0:55

found out that we had lost him on air.

0:57

You would never know that

0:59

in his head, he was battling something. People

1:01

die twice, and the

1:03

first time is when they're actually gone, but the second

1:06

time is

1:06

when you stop talking about them. Later on, I'll be

1:09

answering your questions in Crowd Science. And

1:11

if you've got your own question you want answered on this

1:13

show, get in touch via thereferralpod.com.

1:16

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1:18

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1:22

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free trial today.

1:33

Sonny J., you're a Capitol

1:36

Radio presenter, you're a Dancing on

1:38

Ice winner, you're a singer. You experienced

1:41

significant personal loss in

1:44

the middle of the COVID pandemic when the world is already

1:46

pretty rubbish and everyone was stressed.

1:49

Do you mind talking about that? Of course

1:51

I don't. No, I think it's actually good to talk about.

1:54

I feel like the more you talk about it,

1:56

not the less emotions are taken

1:59

out of it, but the more you. you start to deal

2:01

with it, cope with it and acknowledge it and

2:04

use it for good. You know,

2:07

like, of course, yeah, absolutely far away if you got

2:09

any. Well, I mean, I mean, you're

2:11

a producer for the show and

2:14

one of your best friends as well, Joe Lyons, he

2:17

passed away. He took his own life in 2020.

2:19

How, when you first heard the

2:21

news, what

2:24

were the things you felt and, you know, what were

2:26

you thinking at the time? Joe, it was a weird old day

2:28

and it's purely because we obviously,

2:31

you know, we get up at four o'clock every morning to do a breakfast

2:33

show.

2:34

You go in, he was the first person that was always

2:36

there in the morning walking into the office. I always see

2:38

the back of his head, he would be setting the show up to make

2:40

sure, you know, all the carpets, all bits are in,

2:43

all that sort of stuff. And it was this one morning

2:45

that he wasn't there. And we

2:48

all thought he slept in. In all honesty, we were going,

2:50

oh, what an idiot, you know, it happens.

2:52

We've all done it. We've all slept in, you know,

2:54

at 4am in the morning. And we

2:57

felt right, he slept in, that's it. And it got to

2:59

a certain sort of time, we were going, all right, okay, this

3:01

is starting to be weird now, you know, you're sleeping

3:03

and then you're taking the mic. So

3:05

I remember texting his sister, because

3:08

he lived with his sister. And I was like, oh, look, you with

3:10

Joe, because he's not,

3:12

basically he's overslept, it's not turned up for

3:14

work. She was like, no, I'm staying with my mum and dad. And I was thinking,

3:16

okay, fine. Well, he's really slept

3:19

in now. And he got to a point where it just, we

3:21

just sort of knew there was this weird sort

3:23

of,

3:24

you're sleeping, but when you do a breakfast show, you

3:26

go and you sleep in till about seven o'clock, and then you know

3:28

that you've messed it up. And we

3:30

ended up basically just finding out on

3:33

air, which is, I think, the

3:35

craziest thing now looking back at it, obviously,

3:37

it was during COVID, it was like, height

3:40

of emotions, I'd say for a lot of people, because there's so

3:42

much going on. And there was stuff in the news that I

3:44

find crazy now, we'd like looking back, we'd go, there

3:46

was death counts on, on news. And

3:48

I know it sounds bad, but it was like, oh,

3:50

another, however many have gone today. And it was like,

3:52

I feel like, in

3:55

a way, I, the reason why

3:57

I love talking about this so much is because I think

4:00

I feel like a lot of people that have blocked

4:02

out parts of COVID and parts

4:04

of like, because we just don't want to remember it. And

4:07

it's one of those things now where I look back and I

4:09

go, I need to carry on talking about this

4:12

and carry on talking about my mate because it's

4:14

a good way of sort of going, oh yeah, that was at

4:16

this time. And you know, and actually learning

4:18

it. I mean, yeah, we found out that we had

4:20

lost him on air. You know, we were doing

4:23

a radio show that, you know, it's supposed to entertain

4:25

millions in the morning and

4:28

we found out on air that our mate

4:30

had gone. And it felt

4:32

just,

4:36

you know, you have this thing of the

4:38

world just opening, just going underneath

4:41

you, you know, it was just that feeling of just

4:43

that, okay, we're all in this together and,

4:46

you know, we've lost our best mate here. You

4:48

know, we've lost our producer, we've lost so

4:51

much. And

4:53

yeah, it's so weird looking back at it because you just

4:55

sort of replay it in your head, you know, and you go,

4:57

I want to be honest, the last thing I said to

4:59

him, I remember it was on a Tuesday morning

5:02

and the last thing I said to him on the Monday and I'm so

5:05

pleased that I did this. He was walking out of

5:07

the office before me and as a producer,

5:09

you know, as a presenter, you sort of, you're known

5:11

to sort of leave early, do you know what I mean? And the producer

5:13

stayed a bit behind and he walked out the door before

5:15

me and I was like, is that it then, is it? He went, yeah,

5:18

I went, go on then, F off. And

5:20

that was the last thing I said to him. And he actually

5:22

did it. He was like, whoa. Yeah.

5:26

But that was the sort of relationship I had with him, you know, to be

5:28

able to do that sort of stuff. But I think it's good

5:30

to talk about it because he was the classic

5:32

stat of a guy that was

5:35

so happy go lucky, you know, just cheer

5:37

everyone up in the morning, this, that, whatever. You would never

5:39

know that in his head he was battling

5:41

something. And I think, you know,

5:44

to learn from that as a male, not

5:47

even just as a male, as a human, to learn from

5:49

that and realize that you

5:51

have to go through things together

5:54

with people. Even if you're not going through it together

5:56

with someone, you're just talking about it and

5:58

you're learning from it, you know, and you're. understanding

6:01

your mental health,

6:03

which to me wasn't a thing growing

6:06

up. I never thought about mental

6:08

health and actually I'm only slowly

6:10

learning about it still now. I don't fully

6:12

understand how people

6:15

can get so low and how people can get to a

6:17

point where they feel

6:19

that they want to take their own life. That

6:21

to me just doesn't... Do you

6:23

know what I mean? I feel like my

6:26

culture and heritage, I'm Indian by

6:29

background, so in the South Asian

6:31

community mental health is

6:34

not something which is at the top of everyone's priority.

6:37

Even if someone is suffering mental health conditions,

6:39

and clearly there are, it's

6:42

not talked about and it's suppressed. If

6:44

it is talked about it's like, forget it, it's a

6:46

weakness sort of thing. That's a traditional

6:49

thing which is held back. Even

6:51

though at points in my life, maybe

6:53

my first breakup, all these

6:55

things which have affected my mood in some way from

6:57

teenage years to now, I've never

7:00

spoken about it freely in that way to

7:02

my parents or any of my

7:04

family members. But I also feel

7:06

in a weird way that we only learn

7:09

about mental health once we go

7:11

through stuff, once we go through the bad stuff.

7:14

In a weird way, the more bad stuff

7:16

we go through, the better equipped we

7:18

become to deal with mental health, which is

7:20

a weird way to... You learn from

7:22

experience and you learn from basically

7:25

horrible things happening. Yeah, I remember when

7:28

my mum said to me after my

7:30

best, you know, after Jo passed away, her

7:33

best friend passed away years ago. And

7:35

she always said that, well she said to

7:37

me straight away, she was like, this feels

7:40

like the worst thing ever right now

7:42

and I totally understand. And this is coming from her who's

7:44

lost her best mate, you know, growing up as well. And

7:46

she was like, just every day it does get easier

7:49

and you know, you don't stop thinking about

7:51

them. There's always times where you, and you want to carry

7:54

on, you know, I think it was, I

7:56

was interviewing Jimmy Carr last year

7:58

and he... And

10:00

I remember I was so fond of my teacher

10:03

at school that I probably could have,

10:05

if I did feel a certain way, go

10:07

up and speak to him. Do you know what I mean? But that's

10:09

how he made me feel and made a lot of people

10:11

feel, but I don't actually think that

10:14

a lot of kids have that, you know? Hello

10:23

listeners of The Referral. It's me, Dr.

10:26

Curran. Are you tired of scaring the internet

10:28

for medical answers, only to end up on shady

10:30

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10:32

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10:35

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many myths and nonsensical health advice out

10:39

there on the internet, but on our weekly Crowd

10:41

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10:53

Subscribe now to The Referral Plus and start getting answers today.

11:21

Nobody does fall better than Whole Foods

11:24

Market. The Spice Up Autumn event is

11:26

happening now. Save on Animal Welfare

11:28

Certified Beef Top Sirloin State, perfect

11:31

with gravy for a comforting meal. Find

11:34

savings on organic Honeycrisp apples and

11:36

organic pears. Then, visit

11:38

the bakery department for their limited time

11:40

pumpkin butter chai cake. And

11:42

while you can, level up your fridge with

11:44

fall wine, beers and ciders.

11:47

Spice Up Autumn at Whole Foods Market. Your

11:49

term supply must be 21 plus. Please drink responsibly.

11:57

teaching

12:01

kids how to use their emotions

12:03

correctly or more of an in-depth

12:06

into psychology. One of my

12:08

best friends from medical school actually,

12:11

he's a high functioning guy doing

12:13

well, he's a doctor himself and he's

12:16

thinking about quitting medicine onto a different career

12:18

as well. And I'm close

12:20

to the point where he can talk to me about

12:22

anything and I can talk to him about anything. And

12:24

he recently told me that he'd started seeing a therapist.

12:28

And I just asked why. But he's actually telling

12:30

me, I don't feel low

12:32

in mood, I just decided to get a therapist

12:35

because I felt I just wanted to talk to someone,

12:37

like just sort of professionally

12:40

talk to someone. That's not a friend that

12:42

doesn't have any prior knowledge of

12:44

your background and just kind of listens

12:47

to you talk, like a ranting session

12:49

almost, like a monologue. And

12:51

he said that that just improves

12:53

his mental health. And he was telling me about

12:55

it and I thought, wow, that's like almost

12:57

like a pub-sauce. And he said, I'm not going to do a pub session with

13:00

your mate, but slightly different

13:02

because it's formalised and you're doing

13:04

it regularly and it's a form

13:06

of just venting, which I find quite helps.

13:09

Would you say that it's made you want to

13:11

go? Yes. Like, you

13:13

know, listen, you know, I've

13:16

never suffered with depression. I've been in

13:18

low mood, I've been stressed with work recently,

13:20

but hearing that from him

13:23

that almost catharsis

13:25

of just talking to someone, I'm like,

13:27

I would want to try it out. And he says 100%

13:30

do it. Yeah. I don't know. It's

13:32

quite interesting because while you're saying that, I was like, I picture in my head, me and

13:34

my best mate, Christian, we have,

13:37

I always say that you have to have a person

13:39

and a place that you speak to, you know,

13:42

people about Christian. For me, I can

13:44

always have, and I have always done, especially

13:46

since, you know, my mate passed away, that

13:49

we would always chat and it's normally

13:51

over drinks, normally in a pub. But if that's our place

13:54

where we actually open up to each other, great.

13:56

I feel like now you've just said about having

13:58

a therapist and all that sort of stuff. it makes me question

14:01

whether you pick and choose what you

14:03

do open up to about your mate. When

14:05

you've actually got someone who

14:08

is completely not in your life

14:10

and whatever, you can literally do any, you've

14:12

literally, yeah, maybe I need a therapist.

14:14

I had been offered therapy before after that. My

14:17

company did say, if you want therapy, and people

14:19

did do it that we worked with, and I just chose

14:22

personally not to. I feel like at some

14:24

point I probably should. What I'll say

14:27

is that I think

14:29

there's also a cultural discrepancy in

14:32

our perception in the UK of what a therapist

14:34

is and other places. So another

14:37

one of my mates, he, maybe about seven years ago

14:39

now, he moved to LA, okay? And

14:41

he's deep into business in LA, he's living

14:44

life out there, beautiful weather, food,

14:46

everything. So clearly that's great for his mental

14:49

health, but also he's like,

14:51

you know, he's married, he's about to have a kid, everything

14:53

is going fine in his life, and he was just mentioning,

14:56

because he wanted to come up with a new app,

14:58

he's always thinking about new ideas, he's like, what about an app for

15:01

therapists, where you can find a yellow

15:03

phone book for therapists? And he's like, I've got

15:05

a therapist, and I was like, wait, hang on, hang on, you've got a therapist.

15:07

I was like, why? And he says, I don't know, everyone

15:09

has one out here. And there

15:12

in America, especially

15:14

in LA and New York, people

15:16

just have a therapist. Just like you go to the dentist

15:19

to do a checkup on your teeth, you have a therapist.

15:22

And there seems to be less stigma attached

15:24

to that, because it's just a thing you should have to

15:26

be well adjusted. But here, it seems

15:28

like there's a deficiency in

15:31

your mental health, or there's some abnormality

15:34

in your state, which requires

15:36

you to seek help from a professional. So

15:39

I think that limits a lot of people from actually getting help,

15:41

because the actual perception

15:44

of therapy is different to

15:46

India, to the UK, to Arabic

15:49

speaking countries, to America, where

15:52

one, it's completely normalized and almost expected,

15:54

like what, you don't have a therapist? You're

15:57

weird. Here it's like, oh, you've got

15:59

a therapist. Yeah. You're so right, yeah, there

16:01

is a stigma to it, and I don't know why. But

16:03

then saying that, I'm saying I don't know why, I've

16:05

not gone to one, so yeah. So,

16:07

I mean, therapy is one thing,

16:10

which is an external factor that you can use

16:12

to manipulate things, and another thing which, you

16:15

know, you've spoken about, and you've been

16:17

quite vocal about, is going

16:20

to the gym, and having that as

16:22

a place where you can get away from

16:24

things, and transform yourself,

16:27

and transform your mind. Yeah, at the beginning of this

16:29

year, January, I started a new

16:31

job, I used to do, obviously, the breakfast show, and I

16:33

got this opportunity to have my own show, and go on to

16:36

the late show, which means that

16:38

I wasn't getting up at four o'clock every morning, and I

16:40

had this thing of, well, I'm gonna do something

16:42

with that time, I'm not gonna get up at four o'clock, but I

16:44

had the morning to myself, what am I gonna do? And

16:47

I thought I'd make the decision of going to the

16:49

gym. And I would

16:51

consider me, last year, actually, happy.

16:56

I'd say healthy, I wouldn't say the epitome

16:59

of health, I'd always sort of think

17:01

about what I was eating, whatever, but

17:03

I just enjoyed life, and I

17:05

didn't really care too much about what I was

17:07

putting in my body. But

17:10

this year, I just gave myself the goal,

17:12

I'm 30 in June, I want to

17:15

get fit, and see what I can do,

17:17

and see how better I can feel. And

17:19

I only now look back and go, I was

17:21

happy last year, and I didn't actually

17:24

think there was anything wrong

17:26

with me, or anything like that, but I feel

17:29

so good now, I'm like, how

17:31

could I have been happy? So I know

17:33

that it just makes me feel so good doing

17:35

it, and going to the gym, and it gives me confidence,

17:38

and it gives me drive, it gives

17:40

me more energy to be able to give to my

17:42

loved ones, it's weird.

17:44

But that's all stuff that I thought I had last year, but

17:46

I clearly didn't, you know? No, I mean, there's

17:49

consistent science that suggests that

17:52

that is a positive thing. I mean, when

17:54

you go to the gym, your muscles release

17:56

these myokines, which

17:58

actually these chemicals. and

20:00

I didn't lay my clothes out. By the way, putting gym

20:02

clothes on, right? People say that that's a

20:04

set to get into the gym. Absolutely not. Gym

20:07

clothes are so comfortable. I could sit on

20:09

the sofa and fall asleep in them. So that's not

20:11

a part of it. But

20:13

yeah, just that sort of thing of just getting up and

20:15

going, I need to do this

20:17

because I'm doing, I have a goal and I wanna

20:19

look a certain way. And then it got to the point where it's actually

20:22

that change and I was like, I

20:24

don't care about how I look anymore. I feel good, so I

20:26

wanna carry on doing this. And it became a bit addictive

20:29

in a way. I had an Apple watch that I just kept

20:31

on, just kept on, I

20:34

need to close my ring stay. I need to do this and this, that calorie

20:36

counting. I have many steps I'm getting. And became addictive.

20:40

And I took it off eventually because

20:42

I thought, I can't rely

20:44

on that. I need to rely on how it makes me feel and

20:46

actually tracking all that stuff didn't make me feel good.

20:49

Do you know what I mean? I think there's

20:51

a lot to be said for exercise, but

20:53

I feel that most people don't have to

20:56

worry about too much exercise and being

20:58

addicted. That is obviously

21:00

one extreme. And paradoxically I've found

21:02

that often the fittest looking

21:04

people who've got six packs in the mental

21:07

health magazine cover models, they

21:10

often have pretty poor mental health because

21:12

to get to that point of having

21:14

every little vein visible

21:17

on their abdomen, they've had to sacrifice

21:20

and restrict so much that their

21:22

libido, their mental health, their

21:25

appetite is just at an all time low.

21:28

And they feel terrible, but look great. Yeah,

21:30

their energy levels would just be so low because

21:33

it just involves just starving. It

21:35

does. It's that thing of just like, if you wanna

21:37

look that way, then you shouldn't eat as much and

21:39

your energy levels are just gonna be like that. So yeah, it's

21:42

always been about balance with me. And I can honestly say

21:44

since January, like I do drink. My

21:47

thing is, if I can be really strict and

21:49

clean during the week, on the weekends,

21:52

I won't get mad, but I can have a drink. And

21:54

I can go out for dinner with my girlfriend or I can go see

21:56

my mates and not feel guilty about it because I know

21:58

that during that week, been good

22:01

and that for me worked mentally as well. So

22:03

that's your balance, that's the way you find balance in

22:05

your life by having some

22:07

restriction in the week but then having that

22:10

ability to open the floodgates

22:12

if it were during the weekend. You

22:14

need something to look forward to. And I always used to think, what's the point

22:16

of me doing this if I am starving

22:19

myself or if I

22:21

am restricting what

22:23

I'm doing on the weekends and not seeing my mates because

22:25

I can't go out because I feel like they all drink. No,

22:28

I have to have a balance and it's like, I feel

22:32

like I've done that so well. And I can honestly

22:34

say that, could I have achieved goals quicker? Absolutely.

22:38

But I would have been that person that you said, low

22:40

energy and low libido and low this, low that. I

22:43

don't want to do that. I just want to go through life enjoying it. I thought

22:45

it was about it. But I also feel that our

22:48

society has now been engineered

22:50

and mutated into us expecting

22:53

happiness all the time. There's an expectation

22:56

that you have to be happy and

22:58

cheerful all the time and that actually,

23:00

if you are low, then you've got some

23:02

issues. You've got some mental health issues. But

23:05

mental health is a constantly fluctuating

23:08

spectrum. Within an hour,

23:10

you can go from elated to

23:13

seriously, seriously low mood. And

23:15

that can change depending on factors

23:18

that change on a minute by minute basis sometimes.

23:20

I mean, I can feel happy at the end of this

23:22

podcast than I did at the very start. And

23:25

I think it's kind of reorganizing

23:28

our perspective of how people need

23:30

to feel and say actually, do you know what? It's

23:32

okay not to be happy and feel

23:35

happy all the time. And it also

23:37

doesn't mean there's anything wrong. You can go the whole day

23:39

feeling absolutely miserable. And that's fine.

23:41

Yeah, of course it is. Again, my

23:44

thing has always been balanced. And

23:46

if you do feel miserable one day, the next day you might

23:48

feel a different way. And I

23:50

always look at it and go, well, at least I've learned

23:53

enough. I can feel the difference. In my

23:55

head, I'm always trying to find positive. I

23:58

don't know why, but it just... makes me deal

24:01

with stuff and yeah there is days where

24:03

I'm like you know I just don't want to go out or whatever

24:05

but I just know that the days that are

24:07

good and I do feel good it just make it worth

24:10

it so actually the in-between if I can look in

24:12

between that I'm I feel alright you

24:14

know I mean this sounds stupid but yesterday

24:16

it was there I got a glimpse of

24:18

sunshine yesterday I thought I'd put some shorts on heading

24:20

into town little did I know that when I got outside

24:23

the train station it was just I've

24:25

never seen rain like it was like monsoon and

24:28

I looked at I had no umbrella I had shorts on

24:30

you know trainers whatever and I looked at it and

24:32

I was like I'm just gonna have to walk in and

24:34

I was walking in and I was like

24:36

well at least and that's where my brain

24:38

then goes well at least you know I'm not outside

24:41

all the time and having to you know there's homeless people

24:43

out there this is and then that's where my brain

24:45

goes and I don't know I don't know why and I don't

24:47

know how it goes like that but I

24:50

just don't go oh god this is really getting

24:52

me down I don't know why

24:54

I do that and it might be a I

24:57

don't know a deflection of a something

24:59

I don't know and then do you think do

25:01

you think there's any difference between

25:04

men's mental health and women's mental health

25:07

I think that obviously

25:10

there is a stat to say that men don't

25:12

talk you know to each other and open

25:14

up about their mental health but there's a

25:17

stat that women don't so I do

25:19

I think things are different possibly

25:23

but mental health is mental health and

25:26

you know we should be encouraging everyone

25:28

you know to open up

25:30

to anyone and to chat about how they feel

25:32

and why they feel like it you know and it's

25:34

hard because I sometimes still

25:37

don't know to this day if someone comes

25:39

to me and says you know I'm feeling this way I

25:41

don't know the right questions to be able to

25:44

ask you know I mean like to make them feel

25:47

like they've opened up to me I

25:49

will ask as many questions as I can to actually understand

25:51

how they feel and whatever but I don't know if I'm actually

25:54

helping but you are because

25:57

you're there and they're chatting to you and whatever but you just

25:59

don't know how to deal with it? Do

26:01

you know what I mean? No, and I see similar,

26:03

you know, that this example mirrored in

26:05

my own clinical practice, someone comes to me

26:07

with maybe bowel issues, or they've got abdominal

26:10

pain. And sometimes you can get so

26:12

caught up in the physical ailments

26:15

that you forget or neglect to ask

26:17

about the mental health things like how's your sleep, by

26:19

the way, because we know that, you

26:22

know, if you have poor mental health, and if you have

26:24

mental health issues, poor sleep and all of these extraneous

26:27

factors that can have physical manifestations.

26:29

Yeah, so I'm, you know, running around thinking about

26:31

a diagnosis or abdominal pain, could

26:34

it all be related to something else more

26:36

insidious in the background, doctors

26:39

usually, number one, they don't have time for

26:41

this. And often that's not the first thing they think of, we're

26:43

trying to get to the physical problem first. And

26:46

I guess it's a similar thing as like, should actually

26:48

we be taking a far more holistic view

26:51

of people in general, when you greet someone,

26:53

you know, just talking about like, you're okay, how you're doing, kind

26:55

of, rather than just, what'd you do last week

26:57

and talking about material

26:59

things? Yeah, and yeah, I think it's

27:02

routine as well. Like, like you said, doctors don't

27:04

have enough time to be able to ask, what do you do in the morning? Do

27:06

you have a coffee? Do you do? Yeah, how could

27:08

you possibly do that to every, you know, patient

27:10

that comes in, you can't see, you're right, it is all physical

27:12

and it is but actually, I guess

27:14

this is where it comes back to therapy side of things

27:17

and sort of losing the stigma towards it. It's just

27:19

there is that that is your mental

27:21

health doctor in a way of, you know, just opening up

27:23

and they can potentially go, you need to be

27:25

doing this or you know, so absolutely.

27:28

And Sonny, before I let you go, go on, go

27:31

to question for me. I do. Do you know what I

27:33

am since starting my whole and

27:35

I hate using these sort of weightless

27:38

or transformation sort of thing. There's

27:40

there's certain things that I've been I mean, I spoke to you about

27:42

my Apple watch and that sort of stuff. You're tracking loads.

27:45

I've now gone the other way where I've got a band on

27:47

that tracks sleep that you were just talking about and

27:49

recovery and all that sort of stuff. So I'm trying to focus

27:52

more on to that. My thing has always been

27:54

since I started of knowing

27:57

what supplements and stuff like that to take.

28:00

because I know everybody is different, you know,

28:02

people lacking iron, more people lacking this. I

28:04

have got, I literally, you could shake me

28:06

and you would hear pills in me. And

28:09

I say pills, it's literally just like vitamin D,

28:11

zinc, magnesium, you know, I've been taking all

28:14

these different things, ashwagandha and

28:17

all that sort of stuff. And I'm like, do I need

28:19

this stuff? I've been told to take it because

28:22

it should all make things work the

28:24

way, you know, is there like a normal

28:26

multivitern? Like, do you know what I mean? What

28:29

should we be taking? I'm taking collagen now. And I'm like,

28:31

people say to take it because I'm over 30. So

28:34

there's so much misinformation

28:36

and pseudoscience when it comes to supplements. And a lot

28:38

of that is driven by, you know,

28:41

influencers wanting to sell stuff, promo codes

28:43

and stuff, you know, at a very basic level,

28:46

vitamin D is a pretty decent

28:49

supplement for most people to take, especially if you've

28:51

got darker skin, especially if you live

28:53

in a northern hemispheric country, like the

28:55

UK, we don't get as much exposure to

28:57

sunlight. It's good, again,

28:59

for mood as well. Vitamin D is important for

29:01

mood, not just for muscle and bone health.

29:05

Collagen, no, because

29:07

the kind of collagen that we

29:09

consume will be hydrolyzed collagen in

29:11

the sort of powders or pills or whatever. There

29:14

is no clinical scientific

29:16

evidence to suggest that this improves

29:19

the, you know, clinical

29:22

appearance of the skin. Okay.

29:24

So that's usually a waste of money. When it

29:26

comes to magnesium. Now,

29:29

there's some thought that that

29:32

is one of the most common nutrient deficiencies

29:34

and people struggle to get magnesium in their

29:37

diet. You can get magnesium in your diet,

29:39

you know, plenty of sort of green leaves

29:41

and nuts. But actually, a lot of people

29:44

probably don't get enough magnesium. There

29:46

is some equipment evidence to suggest

29:48

it may help with sleep and general relaxation

29:51

and mood. But again, you don't

29:54

necessarily need magnesium zinc,

29:57

again, minimal evidence for that. The things

29:59

which... do have evidence in addition to the

30:01

vitamin D I mentioned, if you're training

30:03

for example, like you are one of the most

30:05

researched supplements, creatine, like

30:08

again, and there's recent evidence which suggests

30:10

that creatine can actually help with mood as

30:13

well as recovery and all these things. And we know that

30:15

recovery is also linked with a better mental

30:17

state. Probably fish oils,

30:20

especially if you're vegan or vegetarian,

30:23

because there's certain types of fatty acids

30:25

you can only get in fish.

30:28

And if you're vegan or vegetarian, you're not going to have fish. And

30:30

your body can only convert a small percentage

30:33

of the fatty acids which you can get from plants

30:36

into the non-plant type of fatty acid.

30:38

So if you're vegan, vegetarian supplementing with like a fish

30:41

oil, maybe beneficial. But

30:43

apart from that protein supplements are a good

30:45

cheap source of convenient protein. Yeah.

30:48

Yeah, unless you have a nutrient deficiency, everything

30:50

else is usually BS. So

30:52

would you say that normally you can get all

30:56

every vitamin in good food that

30:58

you eat? Like, do you know what I mean? Do

31:00

you have to take vitamin? Like that's what I'm asking in

31:02

a way. Like, can you just do it by food?

31:05

Yeah, you can do most of it by food. The

31:07

thing is right, the people who can't

31:10

afford to have a nutritious diet

31:13

probably won't be able to afford these vitamins. That's

31:15

the thing because like some of these vitamin companies

31:18

have like a subscription, right? Yeah. And it costs like

31:21

£1,500 more a month. That's a lot of money.

31:23

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you can get, you

31:26

know, go to any supermarket like even low

31:28

end supermarket, and you can get all you

31:30

need for less than £1,000. So it's

31:33

this kind of false dichotomy that, oh,

31:35

I don't have a good diet, but I can

31:37

supplement it all with these things. You

31:39

can't because it's more expensive number

31:42

one. And actually the nutrients that

31:44

you get from food, from whole

31:46

foods are way better than just pills

31:48

and powders because with the food, you get a

31:51

combination of things, you get fiber, you

31:53

get all these things, which you can't

31:55

replicate with just like, you know, a pill or a potion.

31:58

Right. So you've got good skin like that just from Wash

32:01

your face. Wash your face? If

32:04

we take anything out of this, just wash. Wash

32:06

your face, moisturizer, sunscreen,

32:10

and you know, if you've got pigmentation

32:12

or some like, you know, patches of skin,

32:15

like clumps of skin cells, you can try some retinoid.

32:18

Right.

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32:54

It's Ade Edmondson here, and I'm

32:56

delighted to tell you that I am

32:58

the new host of the rather popular podcast,

33:01

Out To Lunch. I take some

33:03

amazing and rather fascinating people out

33:05

for a slap-up lunch and press

33:07

record. In a way, it's like you're

33:09

sat at the table with us. You'll

33:11

need to bring your own food, though. From

33:14

Sony Music Entertainment, you can

33:16

follow this new season of Out To Lunch on

33:18

Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon

33:21

Music, or wherever you get your

33:23

podcasts.

33:32

So this podcast is all about providing evidence-based

33:35

information. So, If It Ducks Like A Quack

33:37

is the part where we debunk medical myths

33:40

and nonsense. Our first myth, you either

33:42

have mental health issues or you don't. So it's

33:44

important to know that mental health is

33:46

a spectrum. Everyone has mental health

33:49

and they'll be sitting somewhere on a fluctuating

33:51

spectrum. If you are consistently in one

33:53

end of the spectrum, at the low mood end

33:55

of the spectrum, you could be then diagnosed

33:58

with depression or a number of other symptoms. mental health

34:00

conditions. But there's nothing that prevents you going

34:03

from very happy and with a normal

34:05

mood to going to the other end or

34:07

closer towards the low mood end of

34:09

the spectrum. So no matter what you hear on social

34:11

media, that maybe mental health or depression

34:14

or any of these mental health conditions are

34:16

a weakness, that's complete rubbish because no

34:18

one is immune from having their mental health

34:21

affected in a negative way. And there are a number

34:23

of stresses for that. It can be biological

34:25

because of certain medical conditions. We know

34:27

that chronic medical conditions, you know,

34:30

arthritis, endometriosis, cancer,

34:33

inflammatory bowel diseases, all of these can

34:35

have a significant burden on a person and

34:37

it can cause low mood and other mental

34:40

health conditions. There's also psychological factors.

34:42

There can be things which happen in your brain

34:44

and changes which happen in your brain which predisposes

34:47

you or increases your risk of various mental

34:49

health conditions. And finally, social factors

34:52

as well. Things going on in your life, in your

34:54

environment. It can be financial, a breakdown

34:56

of a relationship, you know, arguments

34:58

with other people, a loss of a job,

35:01

a loss of a loved one. There are various

35:03

external stresses which can also have

35:05

an impact on your mood. So everyone can

35:08

be affected in some way or some capacity

35:10

by mental health. Our second myth, men

35:13

do not suffer from certain mental health conditions.

35:15

Now, I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist

35:18

but I'm pretty sure there is no

35:20

specific mental health condition which

35:23

only targets women and not men. Any

35:25

mental health condition out there which exists

35:28

right now and is categorized and is diagnosable

35:31

can affect you regardless of

35:33

your gender. Now, there can be an increase of

35:35

mental health issues in women because

35:38

they have different organs to men. For

35:40

example, they have ovaries and

35:42

a uterus. They can be significant

35:45

issues related to postpartum

35:48

depression and postpartum mental

35:50

health issues which is actually not

35:52

that uncommon after pregnancy. Naturally,

35:55

men cannot get postpartum depression. Indeed,

35:57

some women and it's thought to be around 1 in 10 women.

36:00

men suffer with something known as endometriosis,

36:02

which is a chronic gynecological condition and

36:04

this can have a significant impact on a woman's

36:06

life such that it can actually affect the

36:09

quality of life and their mood and

36:11

increase the risk of mental health conditions like

36:13

depression and anxiety. Just

36:18

before we go, we've got a listener question. This one

36:20

is from Mike in New Orleans who says,

36:23

some senior individuals in old age require

36:26

walkers to get around due to what I

36:28

presume to be gradual weakening of the legs.

36:31

What confounds me is that the walkers also

36:33

require considerable arm strength

36:35

to operate. So my question is, does

36:37

arm strength tend to degrade a lot less

36:40

than leg strength as we grow older in

36:42

age? Great question Mike and you

36:44

know, I don't think anyone has significantly

36:46

looked at it on a population level about

36:48

comparing the rates of arm

36:51

muscle degradation versus leg degradation

36:53

but what I will say, it's more noticeable

36:56

when you lose significant muscle mass

36:58

in your legs because it puts you off

37:01

balance, it puts you at an increased risk of falling,

37:04

it makes you more unstable and if

37:06

your mobility is limited and we

37:08

walk with our legs, then that is more noticeable

37:10

than having a poorer grip strength or

37:12

a poorer arm strength because you know,

37:15

these elderly people with walkers, they

37:17

still have some leg mobility

37:20

but they have to overcompensate by

37:22

using their arms more. And so this

37:24

is one of the things, it's important to actually

37:27

throughout your lifetime, if it's possible, to

37:29

do resistance training and try

37:31

to maintain or at least reduce

37:34

the amount of muscle that you lose with age.

37:36

You know, after a certain period of time, so after

37:38

your 30s and 40s, you begin to

37:40

continually lose muscle as you grow

37:43

older and you lose bone density

37:45

as well both throughout your body, throughout your

37:47

skeleton. So it's important to

37:49

do weight bearing exercises so you

37:51

can reduce the rate of bone

37:53

density loss and reduce the rate of muscle

37:56

loss or sarcopenia so you

37:58

can reduce your risk of you

38:00

know, infirmity, falling

38:02

and fractures in older age. Great question

38:04

Mike, I hope that answers it. And in this week's

38:06

Extra episode, I'll also be answering a question

38:09

from Charlie in West London. Charlie's asking

38:11

about UV lamps and getting her

38:13

nails done, and whether avoiding

38:16

contact with the UV light by wearing

38:18

covering over a hand is helpful or is

38:21

that slightly paranoid? To hear my answer to

38:23

that question and loads more, you just need

38:25

to subscribe to The Referral Plus, where you can

38:27

listen to those Extra episodes aptly

38:29

named CrowdScience Extra. And don't

38:31

forget, if you've got a burning question for me, get

38:34

in touch by thereferralpod.com. If

38:36

you enjoyed this podcast, you're going to love even

38:38

more. So for even more actionable tips, hit

38:41

the follow button, and obviously give that five

38:43

star review button a click. I'll see you next

38:45

time.