1:49

and

2:00

they kill everybody on the island. Apart

2:02

from one little boy, very young boy, I

2:04

guess it's respect to the ancestors that you don't

2:06

wipe out the bloodline. You keep one

2:08

boy and they take him with them and

2:10

they keep it moving. And they

2:13

name him Illdui because he had dark hair,

2:15

the dark-haired boy. They raise him

2:17

up and he survived long enough to have kids.

2:20

So they were called Mac Illdui. And

2:22

that's where the name comes from. Wow, that's incredible.

2:24

Now in 2006, I guess,

2:27

is when you first blew up, as

2:29

it were, with Mr. Hudson and

2:31

the library, your band. And it was

2:33

around 2008-09 when I started listening

2:35

to you. I was in Tiger

2:38

Tiger Nightclub in London. I was a medical student. I

2:40

remember it. Yeah, good times and

2:42

bad times. The thinking man's all-bar one.

2:44

Yeah, yeah. And like a spicy all-bar

2:47

one. Yeah, you could say that. And

2:49

I remember Forever Young started

2:51

playing. And that's

2:54

the song with Jay-Z on the blueprint. And I was thinking,

2:56

wow, this is really resonating with

2:59

me at the time. And you had

3:01

a solo career. And then you were snapped up

3:03

by Kanye West's

3:05

record label, Good Music. How

3:07

was all of that for you, just that rise?

3:10

It's funny, isn't it? Because from the outside,

3:13

it seems like it's happening

3:15

in jerks. But when you're on... Do

3:17

you know what I mean? It's almost like not an

3:19

overnight thing. But it looks like

3:21

it from a distance. It looks like there are these

3:23

sort of abrupt changes.

3:26

Like all of a sudden, oh, you're there. And

3:28

this has happened. But when it's happening to

3:30

you, it's kind of very incremental

3:33

and slow. A bit like the frog in the water.

3:36

You know, if you throw a frog in boiling water,

3:38

it jumps out. Yes, if you bring it to the boil, it

3:40

doesn't jump out. I was definitely the latter.

3:43

You know, things just day by day

3:45

got wilder and wilder.

3:48

To the point where I was just like, am I in

3:50

a film about a boy from

3:52

Birmingham who ends up in Hawaii making

3:54

music with Jay-Z, et

3:56

cetera? You know, that's incredible.

3:59

You wouldn't... money on it. It's kind of stranger than fiction.

4:01

Somebody commented on my social media when I told

4:04

the story of ending up in Hawaii and some

4:06

of the twists and turns. And I just told a little

4:08

bit of the story of that like summer of 2008.

4:11

And somebody commented, this sounds like

4:13

a fever dream, something

4:15

that you would make up. So I think I saw

4:17

that video. I think that was when I saw

4:20

you on TikTok for the first time. I was like, Oh my God,

4:22

it's Mr. Hudson. And I guess

4:25

I wanted to ask, when you

4:27

reach that level of fame and stardom,

4:30

when you're surrounded by your idols

4:32

or the biggest names in the music

4:34

industry, Kanye West, Jay-Z, Rihanna,

4:37

was Nicki Minaj there as well? She wasn't in

4:39

those sessions. She worked on My Beautiful Dark

4:41

Twisted Fantasy. She has a feature, but I wasn't there at

4:43

the same time. So there was kind of a revolving

4:46

door of different artists. And some

4:48

people would kind of phone

4:50

in their bits. So they'd do it from a distance

4:53

in their studio. So for example,

4:55

on 808s and Heartbreak, Lil

4:57

Wayne's on the record. I didn't meet him, but

5:00

I did meet Young Jeezy and so

5:03

on. Some people would have

5:05

to phone their work in. I mean, Forever

5:07

Young, Jay and I made

5:10

the record without meeting. The

5:12

track and my vocal were recorded one

5:15

humid night, Friday night in Hawaii.

5:18

And I was leaving the next morning and

5:20

it was really like the 11th hour just for

5:22

a bit of fun. We made the song and

5:24

then it was sent to Jay.

5:27

We went to the club. I'm dancing to

5:29

Amelie, Amelie, Amelie. Yeah, you remember

5:31

that song? And having a couple

5:33

of tequilas. And then I went straight

5:36

to the airport. I fly back to London. It's a 21 hour journey

5:40

via the West Coast. Get back to London.

5:43

Went to the movies. You know, when you've been traveling, you don't really

5:45

want to go home. You never had that. Extend that

5:47

holiday. Exactly. You don't unpack your

5:49

bags and I'm kind of on a high. Go

5:52

to the movies, watch The Dark Knight, leave

5:54

the movie for you to go home. I realized I've left

5:56

my blackberry in the cinema. I have

5:58

to go back, turn it on.

7:18

So

8:01

somebody can put this crazy

8:03

goal in front of you. You don't have to

8:06

accept it. You don't have to take the ring to

8:08

Mordor. I wouldn't. I'd be like, you

8:10

take it. Do you know what I mean? You're a big Lord of the

8:12

Rings fan. My dad used to read

8:14

Lord of the Rings to us to get to sleep.

8:16

Being younger, I would always fall asleep halfway through,

8:18

so I only know the first half of each chapter.

8:21

So a lot of you asked me how I balance brainstorming

8:25

for

8:27

my videos and writing scripts, planning my book chapters,

8:29

my newsletter, stuff

8:32

to do with my life as a surgeon, as a doctor

8:34

in a hospital. It was a struggle, but

8:37

recently I've been using Notion AI, and

8:39

it's essentially a workflow productivity

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tool. I've never used these before, but it's

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8:48

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8:50

I can write faster. It gives me a lot of

8:53

flexibility. It

8:55

gives me AI-generated prompts. I

8:57

can write better. It picks up grammar mistakes,

9:00

and tasks that normally take me hours, I can now

9:02

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9:05

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9:07

you can try Notion AI for free when you go

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That's all lowercase, notion.com

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use our link, you can support our show as well. So

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that's Notion AI at

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notion.com slash referral.

9:25

Hello,

9:27

listeners of The Referral. It's me, Dr.

9:30

Curran. Are you tired of scouring the internet

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10:31

When you were growing up, was music from,

10:33

you know, the first time you can remember a

10:35

huge part of you and was that pushed

10:38

onto you by your parents or by yourself?

10:41

I didn't feel a lot of pressure. Maybe that's why later

10:43

on in life I didn't acknowledge any

10:46

like outside pressure. So I

10:48

grew up in Birmingham and I

10:51

grew up in Hansworthwood. I don't know if you're familiar

10:53

with that neighborhood. 0-1-2-1 baby. And

10:56

for me to get to London was

10:58

success. For me

11:00

to get a record deal was success.

11:03

For me to go on tour and open up for Amy

11:05

Winehouse was success. For me

11:07

to open up for the police, my

11:09

mum was a big fan of Sting and the police, that's

11:12

success. For me to do Jools Holland,

11:14

that's success. So when this crazy American

11:17

stuff happened, I was already like, I've

11:19

done it. I just didn't want to get a

11:21

real job. If I'm really honest with

11:23

you, like huge respect

11:25

to everybody who does the 9-5 thing, but I knew

11:29

it wasn't for me. So that was really my sole

11:31

goal. And I know it takes privilege to

11:33

be able to have social mobility

11:35

and so on to be able to escape that. But

11:38

I couldn't do it. School gave

11:40

me enough of an idea of what that was going to be like. So

11:44

I think I wasn't built for it. Some

11:46

people are. And I think that's the healthiest

11:49

way is like have lots of achievable goals.

11:51

And then if something crazy happens, enjoy

11:53

it. Otherwise, it's all going to be

11:55

a little stressful, isn't it? I think it's very

11:57

easy to, like you said,

11:59

have that

12:01

insurmountable goal that you

12:03

feel is overarching. Like, you need to get to

12:05

the top of that peak, whereas probably the easier

12:07

thing is to get to each point in

12:09

the mountain and reassess what

12:12

your next target is. I mean, same for me. When I

12:14

first started in surgery, I saw

12:16

some of my seniors doing a bowel

12:19

cancer operation. And I thought, holy

12:21

crap, I don't think I could ever do that. But

12:24

then I closed the skin. And

12:26

then the next step was dissecting a bit

12:28

of that, learning the anatomy, and then joining

12:30

the two bits of bowel together, doing different parts

12:32

of the operation. And then eventually, after many years,

12:35

putting all the parts together and be like, actually,

12:37

this is pretty okay now. And how long did

12:39

you train for? Oh, I mean, 10 years. There

12:43

you go. So it's a lot of work that goes

12:45

into it. It's more than done your 10,000 hours. You've

12:47

done like 100,000 hours. It's a lot. And

12:49

it's more 10,000 hours replaying it in your head as well,

12:52

not just the practice you do. Yeah, dreaming about it. And

12:54

if you came into the studio, you'd be like,

12:56

I don't know how to make a record, but

12:59

similarly to your practice of surgery,

13:02

everything we do is lots of simple

13:04

steps in sequence. And,

13:07

you know, familiarizing

13:09

yourself with basically what all the buttons in the studio

13:11

do and all the software. And you just learn them one

13:13

by one. Same in

13:15

the gym, you know, same with

13:17

anything. And I think there's

13:19

a lot of wisdom in what you're saying that if

13:22

you break something down into the small achievable

13:25

steps, this is why there isn't such a thing as

13:27

an overnight success. If I

13:29

went in for an operation and you said, yeah, I just

13:31

figured out over the weekend that this is really something

13:33

I wanted to get into and

13:35

you're my first, you know, I've read

13:37

some YouTube videos. I've been like, get

13:39

this man away from me. I have actually

13:42

looked up stuff on YouTube before operating

13:44

on patients, but that's not because I

13:46

didn't know what I was doing. And actually

13:49

I don't think that should be something

13:51

to be embarrassed about. Okay. Right,

13:53

because it sounds terrifying. It sounds terrifying.

13:55

And I would never say that to a patient, but actually- I

13:58

would never say that on the internet. I just had- This

14:00

will go on the internet. Listen,

14:02

your process, creative process, like for

14:04

me, you know, I

14:07

guess there's a lot of, it might sound weird, but there's

14:09

a lot of similarities between any

14:11

craft really, whether it's surgery or music.

14:14

And before I do an operation, I prepare

14:17

it mentally in my head. You know, I

14:19

like to actually listen to music before I

14:21

step into the operating room. And I've even got an operating

14:23

room playlist that keeps me in the zone.

14:26

What do you do as a creative process to

14:28

kind of get into the mood of creating something new?

14:31

Like you can't just be like, I'm going to make a new song

14:33

today. Boom. Like what's the fire for

14:35

you? I get really inspired by a combination

14:38

of listening to new music

14:41

that things I feel I haven't heard before

14:44

that excite me. So something avant-garde,

14:47

it could be the production, could be the lyrics, could be something

14:50

harmonic, it could be a blend of two genres.

14:52

I also, I'm always listening to very

14:55

old music stuff from like the forties, fifties,

14:57

to kind of listen to music that doesn't

15:00

have any technology in it. No computers

15:02

are involved, no drum machines, no

15:04

AI, no AI. And often like

15:06

not even any amps, just like one microphone

15:09

in a room with a bunch of people who perform

15:13

just one take and that's it. So I love listening

15:15

to like the Ink Spots and Natkin Cole

15:17

and Frank Sinatra and stuff. So yeah, I like

15:19

to listen to really new stuff or really old

15:21

stuff. I don't really mess with

15:24

the middle very much. The other thing I

15:26

do before I go to the studio is I don't listen

15:28

to music. So I might say we've

15:30

got a session on Monday afternoon. I

15:33

will listen to music over the weekend, but Monday

15:35

morning I want to keep my ears fresh. So

15:37

I'll go to the gym, go for lunch, shower

15:40

and shave, and then the ears

15:42

are kind of not tired. It's

15:44

like sort of smelling coffee before you

15:46

smell the next perfumer. Right. Reset

15:49

the slate. So if you have bring an idea

15:52

to me, I'm hearing it with fresh ears. And

15:54

if you play, sit down at the piano,

15:56

I'm like, okay, beautiful. I'm as receptive

15:58

as possible. So that would be. my tip

16:01

is digest a lot of stuff

16:03

that's going to inspire you and then take a break. If

16:05

you do that just before going into the studio

16:08

or just before trying to write, even at

16:10

home, it's still going to be

16:12

ringing in your ears. If you're not careful, you'll

16:14

just play what you heard. But I love

16:16

that almost like a fast. You

16:19

digest all this wonderful music for a couple

16:22

of days, take the morning off

16:24

and go in. I feel that whenever I'm trying

16:26

to be creative, there's a couple of things

16:28

that help me, whether it was revising

16:30

for something or coming up with a new video idea

16:33

or just doing something, anything creative, there's two

16:35

things. One is obviously my most

16:38

creative moment. And when that creative

16:40

tap is just flowing is when I'm doing

16:42

the most banal mundane

16:45

things, whether it is literally walking

16:47

my dog, driving into work,

16:49

taking the train in, it's

16:52

when your mind wanders and that's when

16:54

your creativity is at its peak. And that's when I kind

16:56

of jot down ideas. And secondly,

16:59

it's when I'm trying to create

17:01

something, I take in little breaks

17:03

because I don't think most

17:06

humans and their brains can focus

17:09

for more than maybe 20 minutes

17:11

at peak intensity, maybe 45. But

17:14

you have to bake in some breaks there

17:16

because when I was in medical school, even, the

17:19

lectures would go on for two hours. And that's what

17:21

we've all seen. But I actually stopped going to lectures

17:23

in medical school because of that. There was too

17:25

long and I couldn't focus. What

17:28

do you do when you're in a studio session

17:31

trying to crank out this before a deadline?

17:33

How do you get your maximum

17:36

your creativity? Well, there are two approaches. One

17:38

is the just get it done. And if that means

17:40

working for 12 hours on one song, even

17:42

though you're starting to hate it, then that's the just get

17:44

it done because there's a deadline. But

17:46

that doesn't have to happen very often. I like

17:49

to take I think breaks are so crucial

17:51

for the fresh air thing that we were talking about.

17:54

You can't work on music seven days a week. For

17:57

people who are really trying to get their hustle on in the music

17:59

business, I always. I always say, do have that

18:01

one rest day. It doesn't have to be like

18:04

Saturday or Sunday. You could take Wednesdays

18:06

off. It doesn't matter, but have one day when you don't do

18:09

music and you don't talk about music. You're just going

18:11

to do something else. But I'm a big fan of

18:13

work for 25 minutes, take five minutes off. I'm

18:16

a big fan of work for 50 minutes, take 10 minutes

18:19

off. I talked about it on TikTok, but

18:21

the idea of like, say we have eight hours in the

18:23

studio, we'll set

18:25

our timer for an hour and we'll do a new idea every

18:27

hour for like four or five hours. Then

18:30

we'll, you know, literally leave the studio

18:32

and get some dinner, come back an hour later,

18:34

listen to the four or five ideas, which

18:36

is your favorite. Then we work

18:38

on that for two hours and then we go home. Very similar

18:40

to what you just described. I also have

18:43

weird shift patterns like you'd work for 12 hours,

18:45

work into some sort of deadline. So you

18:47

are a shift worker and many senses of the word.

18:50

In addition to that, you know,

18:52

with your travel schedule as

18:54

well, you're crossing time zones, all

18:57

these sort of things. You know, your body

18:59

is really put to the ringer in terms of

19:02

keeping to a schedule. And that comes

19:04

to diet, exercise, sleep, your

19:07

state of mind. How do you regulate

19:10

and stabilize that basically

19:12

as a pseudo shift worker? Well,

19:14

I think routine is really helpful. It doesn't sound very

19:16

rock and roll, but structure is so,

19:19

so useful for me personally.

19:23

Now, yes, there'll be things that disrupt that

19:25

structure. And though we've got a travel day, we've got

19:27

to get to the States or something. But

19:30

as soon as possible, I get back onto the

19:32

very simple structure. And I'm

19:35

so lucky that this is my life, which is get

19:38

up, coffee, breakfast,

19:40

call my mother, gym, second

19:43

breakfast, shower, shave,

19:45

studio, dinner, Netflix,

19:48

chill, repeat. Now

19:51

jet lag might disrupt that, a travel day might

19:53

disrupt that. You know, I'm heading out

19:55

to LA in a week and I'll give myself

19:58

two days to get back onto that. Yeah,

20:00

because that's what keeps me sane and and healthy

20:03

so healthy and body and mind is is

20:05

having that structure because then I know I'm healthy

20:08

in terms of the the most dangerous

20:10

thing for me is this Sitting

20:12

down. Yeah, cuz there's so much sitting down involved

20:14

in music. Yeah, so this is like When

20:17

people say hey, I'm setting up a new studio. What

20:20

what should I invest in a really good microphone really

20:22

good speakers? I'm like no get a really good chair and

20:25

it's such a lame Suggestion, but

20:27

if you have a comfortable chair, you're not

20:29

gonna get sciatica You're not gonna get back

20:31

problems your posture is good. You're

20:34

gonna be able to work longer hours I know that sounds so

20:36

boring, but you see a lot of people haven't

20:38

get like I just got it I'm good at they

20:41

think they're not excited by the music

20:43

anymore But actually their bodies saying we need

20:45

to go and do something different So

20:47

I go to the gym and really

20:49

these days I'm focusing more on mobility

20:52

than anything else because that's so important

20:55

if you want to stay forever young I

20:58

saw a smaller do a forever young workout. What

21:00

do you reckon? I could do it because I saw

21:02

a video do a forever young workout right

21:04

now. I'm gave a remix Music

21:08

video for that. Um, we could do a DVD It's

21:12

gonna be great. You know a few years ago when

21:14

I was still in medical school I got

21:17

this voucher to go to

21:19

yoga six sessions 30 pounds I

21:21

took my mate Gilby who is in medical school

21:23

with me and I said, hey,

21:26

let's you know, just go to these sessions I

21:28

just sweat out buckets, you

21:31

know into this studio and I felt so mobile

21:33

afterwards Do you do any yoga?

21:35

That's quite you know in vogue in LA? When

21:38

I'm so I moved out to LA in 2015. Yeah

21:41

thinking that was you know I was gonna

21:43

bump into Sofia Vergara and you

21:46

know, that's you like getting my green card

21:48

and have kids just set up a new

21:50

life there and Drive

21:52

around in a Tesla or whatever

21:55

and most of that came true. No So

21:58

I moved to LA in 2015 2015 and

22:01

I just thought when in Rome I embraced all the

22:03

cliches So I'm buying a $10 juice

22:06

every morning with turmeric in it and

22:09

things I've never heard of before I'm

22:11

doing CrossFit. I'm doing yoga. I'm

22:13

driving an electric car I'm eating plant-based

22:16

and I even took an acting class Wow,

22:19

which I recommend to everybody whatever

22:21

line of work you're in an acting class I really

22:23

recommend it and when you were in

22:26

LA touch wood. Yeah, I

22:28

think it's Possibly gonna add

22:31

five or ten years to my life for the lifestyle

22:33

changes. I made while I was out there. Okay Yeah,

22:35

and what are the factors that you

22:37

mentioned you mentioned? Living

22:40

in LA in the habits you picked up there maybe added

22:42

a decade to your life your career. What are

22:44

the house would touch wood? My

22:47

dad was 78 when he passed and

22:49

that wasn't because you know, he had a

22:51

good innings. It wasn't because He'd

22:54

abused his body or anything had motor neurone disease,

22:56

which correct me if I'm wrong is just bad luck But

22:59

when he passed the silver lining to him

23:02

to my dad's death because I'm old-fashioned

23:04

and you know I don't like euphemisms

23:07

around around death But it kind of gave

23:09

me a kick in the ass and I was like hang on

23:11

I want to be a healthy old man like yeah, that

23:13

is gonna happen. I want to feel young I want to feel

23:15

forever young at 80. Why not? So I kind

23:18

of 2015 2016 and I

23:21

moved out to LA and I started I wouldn't

23:24

say studying but just really tuning in

23:26

to that the whole Conversation the broader

23:28

conversation of looking after yourself,

23:31

which we did not do in the music business

23:33

in the 2000s Yes, we didn't do

23:35

that. It wasn't a thing. It was probably you

23:38

know Who went to a

23:40

gym in the 2000s? Yeah I think

23:43

I think we probably have social media to thank

23:45

for Brits going to the gym Like obviously

23:47

people who were into sport went to the gym. Yeah,

23:49

but my my peers in the 2000s I

23:52

don't remember anyone saying the word gym between 2000

23:54

and 2010 I feel

23:57

it was a personally I think

23:59

it was Jersey Sure that got everyone

24:01

to the gym, you know GTL Jim

24:03

Tan laundry. I'm familiar with the phrase that Will

24:06

you believe me when I said I've never watched the Jersey Shore?

24:08

I'm familiar with the haircuts Iconic

24:10

haircuts though out Paulie Dee Paulie

24:13

Dee. Yeah, Jay Paulie Dee shout out Paulie Dee So

24:15

for people who weren't there Camden in the 2000s It's

24:20

almost like they gave you a pint and their cigarette

24:22

when you stepped off the tube Do you know what I mean? No

24:25

one had any gains. I've never

24:27

heard the word gains We

24:29

were just in skinny jeans wandering around,

24:32

you know, it was not a healthy environment. Yeah, and

24:34

I think People started

24:37

kind of you know around 2010 a little

24:39

before that to be honest You've got this

24:41

new kind of pop star who was looking

24:43

after themselves and being explicit about it So whether

24:46

that's Ellie Goulding or Calvin Harris

24:48

or Ed Sheeran people saying, you know, I don't drink I

24:51

have these goals. I mean, I'm too

24:53

busy. Like why would I want

24:55

to slow myself down? They're like, I'm not gonna drink

24:58

till I've finished my album. I've got this tour

25:00

coming up. I don't want to drink I've never

25:02

heard that before until about 2009 in 2023 Where

25:06

we've got AI social media How's

25:10

have those two things completely?

25:13

Changed the landscape of music

25:15

compared to 2006 when you first blew up.

25:18

It's a completely different industry So

25:21

it's kind of done on 180 We

25:23

would play and play we would play

25:25

live every night if we could So

25:28

open mic nights clubs pubs

25:30

try and get on tour opening up for an act

25:32

that already had a thing going You'd

25:35

be in the back of a transit van,

25:37

you know, really like very

25:39

basic Conditions and environment

25:42

not super healthy. Yeah, but you tour and

25:44

tour and tour play shows be

25:47

out in the real world all right handing

25:49

out flies maybe giving CDs to people

25:51

and You'd be outside

25:53

other people's shows trying to steal their fans

25:56

by giving them flyers and if you spotted

25:58

a DJ or or something, a radio

26:01

one DJ at the show, they've got to have a CD, right?

26:04

So you'd play until the gatekeeper

26:07

said, you're good,

26:10

we're going to sign you or we're going to give you

26:12

a demo budget to go into

26:14

the studio and record. And you're like,

26:16

okay, now we've got a foot in the door. And

26:18

if that goes well, because in the old days

26:20

publishing companies as well would say, I'm

26:22

going to chance a couple of grand on these kids and

26:24

see what they come up with if they go into

26:27

a recording studio, right? And if that

26:29

goes well, you get to make an album and

26:31

then they promote it and you go back out on tour

26:33

and hopefully people buy the physical

26:36

thing in their millions and then

26:38

you get your house on the hill. So that

26:40

was broadly speaking the plot and you do an album

26:42

every two years, right? So you spend

26:44

a few months in the studio and you get out on tour if it goes

26:47

well, you've got like an 18 month touring promo

26:49

cycle make another album, do it again.

26:52

And if you're lucky, you get to do that several times.

26:54

Sadly, a lot of bands would make the album and they wouldn't even

26:56

come out. Is it like, yeah, no,

26:58

it sounds good, but whatever. What I'm getting

27:01

at is that it's done a 180. So now instead

27:03

of playing until you get the chance to go into a studio,

27:06

make a record, you now make records until

27:08

you get a chance to go on tour. No

27:10

one gets to go on tour until we've had a hit. Okay,

27:12

I get what you mean. And they have a hit by blowing up on social

27:15

media. And now the labels

27:17

are still in the middle. And they're looking at how

27:19

many followers you have, how many views you have,

27:21

your metrics, your optics, your metrics,

27:24

all of these algorithmic

27:26

words that, you know, like

27:28

Lil Nas X, for example, blown up

27:30

purely from social media. Right. You know, it's

27:32

funny. I have mixed feelings about social media. I feel like social

27:35

media is a little bit like vapes. We never asked for them,

27:37

but they're addictive. Yeah, yeah, they are. I

27:39

remember when Twitter came out, I was like, we don't need this.

27:42

Why do I want to text the internet? I said, Mr.

27:44

Hudson, as he was tweeting this. Why? I

27:46

wasn't tweeting that. Were you not? You're not

27:48

on Twitter. I remember the moment when we, it

27:51

was probably 2008. And this lovely

27:53

guy was brought in to explain to us that

27:55

we needed to do social

27:57

media. And what, you know, that was familiar with Facebook.

28:00

and we kind of use MySpace

28:02

to help us blow up. For me, social

28:04

media was having an email mailing list. That was enough.

28:07

And I remember thinking when we were being

28:09

told about Twitter, and it was very early, I was like, yeah,

28:11

we don't need this. Not so much as

28:14

a band or to promote our music, because

28:17

I kind of got that. But I almost felt like humanity

28:19

didn't need this. Like, haven't

28:21

we got enough noise already?

28:24

And now here we are, where like Twitter's just one of a

28:26

whole ecosystem of things

28:28

that we have to tend to. I feel

28:30

in my perspective, like it's slightly different

28:33

in terms of social media, because I often

28:35

tell people, say in an average clinic, I

28:37

could see in three hours, 15, 16 people.

28:41

And that's me working pretty fast and assuming

28:43

everyone is quick to be seen. But

28:47

on social media, if I make a video

28:49

about bowel habits and optimal bowel

28:51

routines, and that video gets 5

28:54

million views, even if a fraction

28:56

of a fraction of a fraction of people see that video

28:59

and take something away from it, say 100 people

29:02

out of the 5 million, then I've

29:04

done more in that 60 seconds than

29:07

I have in a three hour clinic potentially. So

29:10

for me, the metrics and the law of

29:12

very large numbers and social media makes

29:14

sense to improve

29:16

population health on a national, maybe

29:18

low level level. You're doing good, some

29:20

people aren't. And some people are just adding

29:22

to the noise. I think just my

29:25

caveat would be, that was my initial

29:27

feeling. And then I wonder

29:30

whether now social media is finally, after

29:32

almost 15 years, becoming kind of what it

29:35

needed to be. So is

29:37

it always gonna be about the music? What's the future

29:39

for Mr. Hudson? Music's kind of all

29:41

I know. I mean, I'd love to open a vegan restaurant

29:45

in Hackney. I'll

29:47

come to it. And I always had this daydream

29:49

about getting into acting, but boy, that's tough. When

29:52

I was in LA, I actually went to acting classes and it

29:54

was so helpful, funnily

29:56

enough, not for my acting career, but for my

29:58

music career. I went back to the studio. with all

30:00

of these new ideas of creative

30:02

process of like simple things like

30:04

have you heard of yes and yes and so

30:07

when you're doing improv say we've got to make

30:09

up a scene and we're given like you know two guys

30:11

standing at the bus stop in the rain go you

30:14

know and I'm like pretending to hold an umbrella and

30:16

I'm like oh it's raining cats and dogs and you say

30:18

no it's a beautiful day I mean it hasn't rained for for

30:20

weeks that's no and

30:23

you haven't and it but what you've got to do is

30:25

like you've got to say yes and it's

30:27

bloody freezing isn't it I wish I'd brought mine to

30:29

continue the which is on a couple of layers

30:32

so you're basically saying yes and

30:34

this and to take

30:36

that from improv in acting classes

30:39

to songwriting is great because then if someone

30:41

throws me a curveball or

30:44

they say they suggest something that I don't agree

30:46

with rather than saying nah

30:48

don't know if I like that I don't

30:50

know which is kind of it's dead

30:53

constructive you're like yeah that is a brilliant

30:55

idea but you know what we can also do this and

30:58

you so you divert the energy like the positive

31:01

sandwich positive critical sandwich where

31:03

you give it called something else it's called a shit

31:05

sandwich you know I heard that one well

31:08

not in that sense of the word um

31:10

yeah good news bad news good news yeah great

31:13

to see you you're fired can

31:15

you still make lunch at the weekend the

31:17

family can't wait to meet you it works in in

31:20

our process as well so you

31:22

come out the vocal booth you've sung your heart out and

31:24

I'm like that was

31:27

brilliant hair standing

31:29

up on my arm like I

31:31

can't wait for people to hear this song could we try

31:33

it again the key down and sing it a

31:35

little quiet so you don't have to sell it to me and then

31:38

you you're going back in the booth you're feeling good

31:40

about giving it another go whereas if I'd gone

31:42

yeah that was too that was too loud and

31:44

it's too high for your voice what then

31:47

you you don't feel good but I can make you feel

31:49

good you go back in the booth sing it again I hit

31:52

the talk back mic I'm like yeah

31:54

let's just do one more take we've got it we've

31:56

definitely got it that was it that last take

31:58

get another one but let's just do another one Yeah, that's what

32:00

these guys do to me as well. Let's do another one. Yeah,

32:03

what it takes 30 seconds Yeah, and

32:05

I got you sometimes I'll someone

32:07

sung a beautiful vocal and I'm like that

32:09

that will do but I wonder if we can beat it What

32:12

I do is I say I want to double it because you

32:14

know a lot of the time when you listen to music The performers

32:16

sung it twice or three times and we stack them

32:18

on top kind of like we've cloned Yeah, so

32:20

I said we've got it. We've got the lead vocal. Can

32:23

you do me a double? Yeah, and

32:25

they'll sing along and that's the lead

32:28

Because they sing along with this carefree

32:30

thing of like I've got it. Yeah nailed

32:32

it and now I'm just having fun Yeah,

32:35

and then and then I'll say We've

32:37

definitely got it now just for laughs.

32:40

Can you do like a really quiet

32:42

one? And that will be the lead

32:44

and that will then be the lead and then I'll use the

32:46

two leads that they thought were the

32:49

lead and the double as background vocals

32:51

and then I'll say they'll come

32:53

soon I'll be like Our work

32:55

is done, but then I'll say just do

32:57

me a favor Just go one more time

33:00

and I'm gonna lose your celebrity crush Who

33:03

is your celebrity crush? Probably

33:08

Rosario Dawson, okay, and I'd be like go

33:10

back in please We've

33:12

got they're gonna kick us out in five minutes.

33:15

Go and get some dinner. We've nailed it but

33:17

do me forever go back in and

33:20

sing to Rosario and

33:22

That's the take

33:24

Ben Okay,

33:27

yes and yes and yes and

33:29

like positive positive positive Yes,

33:32

like I'm taking my dog to RVC

33:34

wonderful small animal hospital up

33:38

It shout out RVC my dog

33:40

has chemo every two weeks, right? But

33:42

they're like they somehow managed to flip it into a

33:44

positive of like we're so pleased to see you

33:46

and your dog We love your dog. It's good to

33:49

see you again This is what we got

33:51

planned for the treatment. It's all

33:53

going well It's going as well

33:55

as it possibly can at every point

33:57

like whatever happens to us in

33:59

life We say, okay, how

34:02

can we react? We can't control what happens to us, right?

34:04

How can you change your perception

34:06

to make it positive? We could go out the studio now

34:08

and it's raining, but rather than cursing it, it's

34:10

like, you know, it's called a cab, or it's going

34:13

by a nice new umbrella or whatever. You

34:15

choose how you react. Reframe your perspective.

34:18

Yeah. Yes, and

34:20

Ben, AKA Mr. Hudson, as

34:23

a personal fan and someone who's followed

34:25

your career since I was 18 years old, I

34:27

just want to say, you know, it was a pleasure. You're not that much younger

34:29

than me. You're doing that to me. No,

34:32

I'm not that much younger than you. Yeah, you are. You've

34:34

got the physiology of someone in their 30s. I think

34:36

that's good. But it was an absolute pleasure speaking

34:38

to you because I just put it out there to see

34:41

if you'd come on and you did. I'm

34:43

a game as a pebble.

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At Kroger, we know the minute a tomato

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Chris McHenry, host of the US Open, where

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35:53

Just before we go, we've got a listener question.

35:55

This time it's from Charlotte in Stafford

35:58

who says, hi, Dr. Curran. I go through

36:00

phases in my life where I get lightheaded

36:03

quite a lot. I can't really seem to

36:05

work out what it's associated with. Is it

36:07

to do with low sugar levels, being hungry

36:09

or thirsty, or can it be something completely

36:12

different? I'd love to be more informed so I

36:14

can work out what's making me feel like this.

36:16

Thank you so much for all the great info you give on

36:19

your podcast. So Charlotte, thank you very much for this question.

36:21

And you know, this is probably quite a common

36:24

one and hopefully it's relatable to a lot of people listening.

36:26

So lightheadedness, as you can imagine,

36:29

you know, the number of potential causes

36:31

for someone feeling faint, you

36:33

know, is ridiculously long. Common things

36:35

are common. So it's worth seeing

36:38

your doctor to get, you know, ruled out for a number

36:40

of things. Viral related issues, have

36:42

you got iron deficiency anemia, which is probably

36:44

the most common type of anemia in the world.

36:47

And particularly in women, if you're having

36:50

heavy periods, other period related

36:52

abnormalities, again, it's very easy

36:54

to be iron deficient. If you're vegetarian

36:57

or vegan, sometimes it can be difficult

36:59

to get high amounts of iron, you

37:01

know, in your diet as well that can cause

37:03

lightheadedness. But even aside from

37:05

iron deficiency anemia, there are other things

37:08

like pot syndrome, postural orthostatic,

37:10

tachycardia syndrome, which can also be

37:13

related with lightheadedness. And

37:15

even more simple things like dehydration,

37:17

are you drinking enough water? Obviously, you

37:19

know, most of the human body is made

37:21

up of water about 70% water.

37:23

That's what we're made of. So if you're dehydrated,

37:26

naturally, your blood flow to your brain may

37:29

be slightly reduced. So you're feeling lightheaded,

37:31

you feel like you want to faint. So it's worth

37:34

ruling out all of these basic things first

37:36

before actually anything in that plan.

37:38

So although that may not be a targeted

37:41

answer that you need, it's always worth excluding

37:43

other simple reversible causes

37:46

of lightheadedness. Charlotte, that was a great question.

37:49

Hopefully that helped you and hopefully

37:51

it helps other people as well. Now in this week's

37:53

extra episode on Crowd Science Extra, I'll

37:56

also be answering a question from Nathan in Liverpool,

37:58

who asked about night owl syndrome

38:01

and whether people with night owl syndrome

38:03

get less growth hormone release because

38:05

they sleep later, that'll be an interesting one.

38:07

If you want to hear the answer to that and loads of other questions,

38:10

subscribe to The Referral Plus. You also

38:12

get ad-free listening to all the regular episodes

38:14

of the show. And just so you don't forget, because I love answering

38:16

your questions, if you want to get in touch and have

38:18

your own question featured on the show and me answer

38:21

it, get in touch via thereferralpod.com.

38:24

Guys, if you enjoyed this episode of the podcast,

38:26

you're going to love even more episodes. For

38:29

even more actionable tips and science-based advice,

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hit the follow button and obviously give me a 5-star

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review and I'll see you next time. Thanks

38:36

for listening to this episode of The Referral. Yes,

38:39

I am a real doctor, but I'm not your

38:41

specific doctor. So if you require specific

38:43

medical advice, please contact your own healthcare

38:45

provider. And remember, nothing on this show

38:48

is intended to provide or replace any

38:50

specific personal medical advice that you'd

38:52

otherwise receive from your own doctor. This

38:54

has been a Sony Music production. Production management

38:57

was Jen Mistry. Videos by Ryan

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O'Meara. Studio engineer was

39:01

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And Gainor Marshall and Chris Skinner are the executive

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