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like Mel Brooks and Steven Soderbergh finding

1:01

out which films shaped them, made them

1:03

who they are today. The

1:05

episode I'm going to play for you

1:07

now features writer-director Nancy Meyers. We met

1:10

at her home. It's a lovely

1:12

home, not surprising. We

1:14

talked about casting. Nancy has cast some

1:16

of the biggest stars of this era,

1:19

Jack Nicholson and Diane Keaton, Steve

1:21

Martin and Meryl Streep. We

1:24

talked about what she learned from Billy

1:26

Wilder. Also the

1:28

famous look of her movies, that

1:31

Nancy Meyers look. We

1:33

also discussed the movies she loves

1:36

and the movie that terrifies her.

1:39

I'm excited for you to hear it. And when you're done, find

1:42

Talking Pictures wherever you get podcasts and

1:44

give it a follow. That way

1:46

you won't miss a single episode. Alright,

1:48

enough of the intro. Here it is,

1:50

from Turner Classic Movies and Max, the

1:53

very first episode of Talking Pictures. Hey,

1:56

it's Ben Mankiewicz. Hi, I'm Ben Mankiewicz.

1:58

Welcome to TCM. Thanks for

2:00

staying up late with us on Turner Classic

2:02

Movies. I've been a host on Turner Classic

2:04

Movies for 20 years now. And

2:07

I have to tell you, it's still

2:09

thrilling to talk to people about movies,

2:11

to hear what they like and what

2:13

they don't like, to find out what

2:15

was going on in their lives when

2:17

a particular film became important to them.

2:20

So I thought, why not have more of

2:22

those conversations? Why not

2:24

have a podcast? Everyone else has one.

2:27

Why can't I? Why

2:30

not sit down, one on one,

2:32

with the most creative people in Hollywood and

2:34

ask them about their lives, ask them about

2:36

the movies that matter to them? So

2:38

I did. Put away the

2:40

suit and the pocket square and the

2:43

TV makeup. Put on my

2:45

boots. TCM fans know the boots I'm talking

2:47

about. Got my hair right.

2:49

I'm kidding. My hair is always right. Listeners

2:52

will come to understand my hair. It's

2:54

kind of a big deal. It is responsible,

2:57

I believe, for 63% of my success in this

2:59

business. Okay,

3:02

enough about my hair. It's all you got to talk

3:04

about. Anyway, I

3:06

went to people's homes. I went to

3:08

their offices. No cameras. No press. Just

3:11

me and my guest talking pictures. I'm

3:19

your host, Ben Mankiewicz, and this

3:21

is Talking Pictures, a podcast about

3:24

movies, about memories, and

3:26

about all the stuff that happens in between. Turner

3:29

Classic Movies makes this podcast with

3:31

streaming service Max, where you

3:33

can see many of the movies mentioned in

3:35

this episode. I'm especially excited

3:38

about our first guest. She's

3:40

written and directed some of the most well-liked

3:42

movies for grown-ups over the last 30 years.

3:46

Something's got to give. It's complicated.

3:48

The holiday. Of course,

3:50

I'm talking about Nancy Meyers. In

4:00

recent years, she has also become

4:02

known for the interior settings where

4:04

her characters live. That

4:06

focus on the decor in her movies, A,

4:09

irritates her, and B,

4:12

has become a trend on social

4:14

media. The hashtag Nancy

4:16

Meyers Aesthetic has

4:18

more than 27 million views

4:21

on TikTok. About that,

4:24

I don't have TikTok. Moreover, I

4:26

can't spell aesthetic without googling it.

4:30

But people post videos of a large

4:32

white kitchen or an elegant dining room

4:34

with a big wooden table and tons

4:36

of natural light, and they'll

4:39

label it Nancy Meyers Aesthetic. Tonight's

4:42

show hosts Jimmy Fallon and country singer

4:44

Chris Stapleton even created a skit

4:46

about it. The

4:49

thing is, Nancy Meyers is one of

4:51

the most successful romantic comedy writer-directors of

5:07

her time. Full stop. She

5:10

routinely works with the biggest stars

5:12

in Hollywood, Meryl Streep, Robert

5:14

De Niro, Steve Martin, Jack Nicholson.

5:18

That didn't happen because of how

5:20

she designs her sets. Nancy

5:22

invited us to her home in Los Angeles. Where

5:25

are we right now? Just in

5:29

general. Are we right now? We're in the dining room of my

5:31

house. That's it. That's what we're looking

5:33

for. Did I answer that correctly? Is it correct?

5:35

That's right. She's one for

5:37

one. You've lived here

5:39

how long? A

5:42

while. I've lived here 25 years. And

5:45

I know what you're thinking. Yes, it's

5:47

a nice looking house. We

5:49

began by talking about the one thing

5:51

Nancy feels makes or breaks her movies.

5:54

Casting. Casting, is

5:57

there a more important part? screenplay.

6:00

Is there a more important part than

6:03

picking the right actor for the role? I

6:08

don't think there is. No. I

6:10

think, yeah. Some people think it's all the script

6:12

and actors, but that is most of it. I'm

6:15

always interested to hear who was once

6:18

going to be in a movie. Oh,

6:21

it's the favorite thing that we do on TCM. What

6:23

do you mean? Are you mobile? You go

6:26

back always and talk about, yes. Yeah, like you

6:28

think that this actor is

6:31

so perfect for this, but they were the fifth.

6:33

Well, Montgomery Cliff, yes, I know. But isn't it

6:35

crazy how it can work out? So Montgomery Cliff

6:37

was supposed to be on Sunset Boulevard. Do you

6:39

know that? Not at the top of my head, no.

6:41

I think it was just a few weeks before

6:43

shooting he backed out. His agent had told him,

6:45

this is according to this

6:47

fabulous book written by Charles Brackett about

6:49

his work with Billy Wilder. So

6:52

it was just a few weeks before shooting and his agent said,

6:54

you don't want to be in a movie where you're having

6:57

sex with this older

6:59

woman. This is not good of your career. So

7:01

he listened and he backed out. And

7:04

they went to somebody else. They went to somebody

7:06

else. And William Holden was under contract with Fox

7:08

or something and made just one movie. I mean,

7:11

can you picture the movie without his voice or

7:14

him? Crazy. Impossible, right? Impossible.

7:17

When we play this casting game

7:19

at TCM, I always think about

7:21

one of my favorite journalism movies,

7:23

Howard Hawks' 1940s screwball comedy, His

7:25

Girl Friday, starring Cary Grant and

7:27

Rosalind Russell. I brought it

7:29

up with Nancy. How much do you love

7:31

His Girl Friday? I

7:34

couldn't love it more. I couldn't love it

7:36

more. I think the scene when she comes to

7:41

his office to say she's getting married is one

7:44

of the great scenes of movies between exes,

7:46

between a man and a woman in

7:49

a work environment. It's everything. It's everything.

7:52

Forget the other offer. I raised you $25 a week. I'm telling

7:54

you, you great big bumble I'll

7:56

make you $25 and not a cent more. What were you going to listen to? A good brief.

7:58

How much am I going to pay for this? I'm going to pay for this. There isn't any other

8:00

thing. Oh, well in that case, I raised

8:02

it off. You go back to your old Saturn and say, how do you

8:04

like this? Trying to backjack me in honor of you. It's here, it's a

8:06

ring. Take a good look at it. You know what it is?

8:09

It's an engagement ring. Tried

8:12

to tell you right away, but you

8:14

would start reminiscing and

8:17

getting married, Walter, and I'm also getting as far away

8:19

from the sacred business as

8:21

I can get. She was,

8:24

I believe, the eighth. No,

8:26

no. H. H. She

8:29

can't be seven. Name almost every – But there can't

8:31

be seven people that could have been right for that,

8:33

let alone eight. Really? But,

8:36

you know, Lombard first, but she was priced out

8:38

at that point, you know, too

8:40

expensive, and I'm going to leave some out. Irene

8:42

Dunn, of course. Right? Yeah.

8:46

Makes sense. But

8:48

it's eight. And she knew, Ros

8:51

Russell knew and was like – She killed it.

8:53

Oh, don't care. Like, I want it. I'm eight.

8:56

Let's go. It's come to me. Right.

8:58

Right. And I have written for

9:00

people and didn't get them. I knock wood.

9:04

I have gotten them, but

9:06

there's a couple times when I haven't, and then afterwards,

9:08

I can't picture the original person in it.

9:11

Right. Myers ended up getting the actors she wanted for

9:14

the 2003 film Something's Gotta Give. It

9:18

stars Jack Nicholson as a wealthy

9:20

60-something New Yorker who's

9:22

become known for dating women less

9:24

than half his age. Diane

9:27

Keaton is a successful playwright. Nancy

9:30

had worked with Keaton several times before.

9:33

In this scene from Something's Gotta Give, their

9:35

characters meet for the first time, with

9:37

Keaton finding Jack, a stranger, in

9:40

her kitchen. No! So

9:42

good! Okay, you stay where

9:44

you are. I am in a dial 911,

9:46

and you are not going to move. You don't

9:48

understand. I'm a friend of your daughter's. Yeah,

9:51

I don't think so. My daughter is in the

9:53

city, and you, what, you like wander in here,

9:55

high on ecstasy? Honestly. Hello. Yes!

9:58

Yes, I have an intruder in my house. 29

10:00

Daniel playing Sagaponic? I'm dating your daughter,

10:02

Marin. You're

10:04

dating my daughter? Now

10:07

who would have thought that would be worse news? So

10:10

let's talk about something's gotta give and Jack

10:12

Nicholson. He was my first choice. And

10:15

you didn't know him? Well...

10:19

Or not well, right? It's

10:21

a double date, still a thing. I had been on a... Is

10:24

that a thing? I had been on a double

10:26

date. I was out with Harry Giddes. You

10:29

know the name Giddes? Mr. Giddes, you

10:31

know that name. And he's best friends

10:34

with Jack. And we went out with Jack

10:36

in Angelica to a movie. But

10:39

I was in my... What

10:41

movie? The

10:43

movie was Harry

10:46

and Walter Go to New York. Not

10:48

the answer I thought we were going for. Is that

10:50

Ellie Gould and James Cahn? That's

10:52

correct. And Diane. Oh right, and Diane,

10:55

yeah. And

10:57

when we left, Jack said,

10:59

let's go over to Elliot's house. So

11:02

of course I'm dying. But just the whole

11:04

car ride, everything was crazy. It

11:07

was so exciting. And we

11:09

went over to Elliot's house and he wasn't home. And

11:12

we all left notes on his door. I remember that. Jack

11:14

wrote a note. I said, do you want me to write a

11:16

note? Like why would I have left? He

11:18

wanted my opinion of what I thought. But

11:23

you know, I was in my... How

11:25

old was I then? I know how old I was. Late

11:27

20's, 30's. And I was 50 something when I went to

11:29

Angelica. So I don't even think I told him

11:31

about that until after we knew each other. But

11:34

he... But yes, I didn't know him.

11:36

But of course I love him now. I

11:39

loved him then. I've always loved him. And

11:41

he was who you had in mind as you're writing.

11:44

He was who I had in mind. I wanted Diane

11:46

and Jack. And Diane

11:48

said, you're never getting him. She

11:50

said, I love... I pitched her the whole thing. She said, I

11:52

love it. But you're never going to get him. I said, but

11:54

let me write the movie. Let me try. And

11:58

I don't know why I had the guts to do

12:00

that. do this. But for some reason, I this was

12:02

a section of my life where I would meet with

12:04

actors, but while I was writing it before I was

12:06

writing just to see if they were interested, because I

12:08

would so focus on them. And if like they would

12:10

say to me, I'd never want to be in a

12:12

movie like this, I would not do that. So

12:15

anyway, so I asked Jim Brooks, who

12:18

was friends with Jack, and I directed him, you know, in

12:20

terms of a German, I can, could you

12:22

introduce me to him? So yeah, he called Jack, and he said, I

12:25

want to fix you up with somebody, which is a cute way of

12:27

saying it. And I went up there.

12:29

And to

12:31

his house, I went up to his house, famous

12:34

house up on my home. And he's

12:36

an incredible art collection. Like you don't

12:38

know whether you should look at that

12:41

face, but you can't stop staring at

12:43

or the paintings all around you. He's

12:45

an incredible art collection. And he's into it. It's not

12:47

he's not doing it because he thinks it makes the

12:49

house looks good. He likes the art. Oh, he loves

12:53

the art. Oh, yeah. So anyway,

12:55

so I went up there. And I said, I have

12:57

this idea. I want you and Diane, can I tell you

12:59

the story and all that I told him the whole thing.

13:01

And he was great. He was absolutely great to pitch to.

13:04

And he said, Well, I've always wanted to do

13:06

a tuxedo comedy. And

13:09

I said, I never heard that expression. But

13:11

I hope this is what that is. And you

13:13

know, listen, it isn't like because

13:15

I met with him and pitched him the idea. And he said he

13:17

liked the idea that he was going to be in my movie, but

13:20

that's all I needed. Really. So then it took me about

13:22

a year. I had it all

13:24

figured out. I hadn't started

13:26

writing too much of it. But I was so into the

13:28

two of them. I just needed to know they were interested.

13:31

I didn't correspond with him

13:33

in any way while I was writing, but I was

13:36

probably a little under a year later. I said,

13:38

remember me, but I wondered about it. Okay,

13:40

well, I've written it. So

13:43

would you do call him? Or you got him on

13:45

the phone? Um, I think I

13:49

think I did speak to him. No, I feel

13:51

to his lawyer. I spent the years

13:53

not an agent versus lawyers. I think he was

13:55

shooting about Smith. As lawyers said

13:57

he doesn't read anything.

14:00

working. I said I understand that. You

14:02

sure? But he

14:04

said no, he really, so I said how

14:06

far under shooting are they? I remember asking that. Anyway,

14:08

I heard from him a week later. So

14:11

what happens? He calls. He called, yes.

14:14

You just answer the phone? I did. I

14:18

just gotten out of the shower and so

14:22

it was the greatest phone call of my life. He

14:24

can be very complimentary in what I

14:26

feel is a sincere way. He's a

14:28

writer himself and he talked about the

14:30

writing and the part. He

14:33

was on board. You don't have to be shy.

14:35

Then I called Diane. I said, okay. Guess

14:39

what? They hadn't worked

14:41

together since Red. Red.

14:46

She and I went up to his house and when

14:49

you get together, you get together at his house. So

14:51

we went up there and I

14:53

just watched them because they had barely

14:55

seen each other since Red's and

14:58

it was a really sweet rendezvous and

15:00

I just saw my movie. I just

15:02

thought I was so

15:05

excited. So

15:08

you've said that in something

15:10

got to give Diane Keaton rights in Christ

15:13

and you were basically the same age

15:16

as the character at the time. I think you made

15:18

her a couple years older than you were. That

15:22

was a lot of you in that character.

15:25

Yes. The writing

15:27

and the crime. Yeah. Yeah. What was the, I

15:30

get the writing part. What was the crying part?

15:34

Well the crying part was me writing the script. I

15:37

had just broken

15:40

up with somebody and. Was that

15:43

your marriage or something after

15:45

my marriage? Yeah. It was

15:47

after my marriage and I wrote somebody

15:51

like him in a way, in a way,

15:53

in a way. The

15:55

good parts of him I thought were like this

15:57

person. Yeah,

16:02

I remember I was seeing a shrink at the

16:04

time and I said, so you know I'm writing

16:06

so a character kind of like, you know, this

16:09

guy and they

16:11

end up together. But we

16:13

didn't end up together. Do you think that's not

16:15

good for me? And he

16:17

said, well, tell me more about it. I said, well, she writes

16:20

a play about him and kills him. And

16:22

so the shrink said to me, I

16:25

think that's you too, right? I said,

16:27

oh yeah, of course that's me too.

16:29

He said, so I think you're covered.

16:31

If it's good for your movie, have

16:33

them end up together. Nancy's 2006

16:35

movie, The Holiday, is also about

16:38

recovering from heartbreak. Kate

16:40

Winslet and Cameron Diaz lead the cast.

16:43

They're both going through breakups. So to

16:45

shake things up, they decide

16:47

to swap houses over the Christmas holiday. Diaz

16:50

moves into Winslet's very English,

16:53

English cottage and Winslet

16:55

into Diaz's Los Angeles mansion. The

16:58

holiday has an A-list cast. In addition

17:01

to Winslet and Diaz, there's Jude Law

17:03

and Jack Black. But

17:05

I think the linchpin is Eli Wallach as

17:07

Winslet's new neighbor. Wallach

17:09

was 91 at the time. He died in 2014.

17:14

He was one of Hollywood's great character actors,

17:17

always memorable, no matter how much screen time

17:19

he got. He had roles in

17:21

The Godfather 3 with Al Pacino, The

17:23

Magnificent Seven with Steve McQueen, and

17:26

he played opposite Clint Eastwood in The Good, The

17:28

Bad and The Ugly. In

17:30

The Holiday, Wallach is just lovely.

17:33

He's Arthur, a formerly famous

17:35

screenwriter who'd been blacklisted, now

17:37

largely forgotten in retirement. He

17:40

and Winslet become friends. They meet when

17:42

Winslet is driving around her new neighborhood.

17:45

She sees Arthur walking down the street by

17:47

himself, so she gives him a ride.

17:50

Well, this was some neat cubes.

17:53

Sorry? It's how two

17:55

characters meet in a movie. One

18:00

and a woman both need

18:02

something to sleep in. And

18:05

they both go to the same men's pajamas at

18:07

the bar. And

18:09

the man says to the salesman, I

18:12

just need bottoms. The woman says, I just

18:14

need a cup. Look

18:16

at each other and

18:18

that's the meat. Oh,

18:21

I see. Because this isn't

18:23

quite that cute. The

18:27

holiday has had this rebirth.

18:31

I mean, it was well received at the time. I loved it because

18:33

of Kate and I loved it because of Eli Law. It

18:35

was just something. He was

18:37

really, that was

18:40

a great experience working with him.

18:42

I absolutely loved it. He filled

18:45

the between shooting time

18:48

with stories, endless stories, and great ones,

18:50

all of them great. One

18:52

day he said to me, Maryland

18:55

was very good with numbers. I

18:57

said Monroe, what do you

18:59

mean? He said on,

19:01

what was the movie they did together?

19:05

Oh, crap. The Misfits. Was it

19:07

The Misfits? Yeah. Right?

19:09

Yeah. She said, Eli,

19:12

give me your contract. Let me go over it before

19:14

you sign it. And he said she penciled the

19:16

whole thing up, changed everything,

19:18

and got me a great deal

19:21

in the movie. Really? That

19:23

is an incredible story. I

19:25

just wanted it. And

19:28

also so kind. I know

19:30

you don't want to hear this, probably. But

19:32

with every direction I gave him,

19:34

right? I've had actors look at me

19:36

like, hm? Or not always. Mostly

19:40

they're right. But sometimes they judge

19:42

a little. Every single thing

19:44

I said to him through the whole movie, he said,

19:46

thank you. I would have never thought of that. That's

19:49

very interesting. That's a good way to go. Oh, that's

19:51

it. OK. I'm

19:53

excited to try that. Literally every

19:55

time. What

19:57

do you think that was that say? After studio we talked. for

20:00

a hundred years you know and I think

20:02

he's open. Right. Open. No

20:05

ego. But sometimes that and realize

20:07

it's a this is the process

20:09

you know. Kate adored

20:11

him. Kate adored him. They

20:14

we never let him leave the set. We were just

20:17

all sit and talk with him all the

20:19

time. In addition to the

20:21

holidays top tier cast Myers

20:23

managed to get another A-lister on board

20:25

to make a cameo in the movie.

20:29

How did you get the Justin Hoffman in

20:31

the holiday. Oh

20:34

I didn't get him at all. That

20:36

was an accident. We

20:39

were shooting in Brentwood

20:41

on the San Vicente Boulevard in a

20:44

blockbuster which is not what Bank just

20:47

said. And

20:50

there's a restaurant next door and I

20:52

saw we were shooting so we're shooting

20:55

the scene where Jack

20:57

and Kate were looking at videos and

20:59

he was singing. Jack Black. Yeah

21:01

thank you. And he's

21:04

humming theme songs of you

21:06

know themes movie scores

21:08

which is what he's played a composer so

21:10

he was entertaining her that way. Have

21:13

you seen this? Yeah. Chariot the pie.

21:15

I loved it. Cling cling cling cling

21:18

cling cling. Such

21:23

a great score by Vangelis. He

21:26

took electronic scores to a new level. It was groundbreaking.

21:29

I'm gonna test you on this. And in

21:31

walks Justin Hoffman into into the

21:33

store and which we

21:35

obviously shut down for the day and

21:38

Dustin's daughter and my daughter grew up together so

21:40

I've known him for a long time. They were

21:43

drawn to like the lights right? They were like

21:45

what's going on here? Yes

21:48

he wanted to see. He was leaving he said he

21:50

left the restaurant so they were shooting a movie. I

21:52

think he saw my name somewhere and said oh I'm gonna

21:55

go in. So he came in so he sat at

21:57

the monitor with me while I was shooting and And

22:00

we're just talking and he was great. He was just,

22:02

you know, it was really just so lovely to have

22:04

him there. And I think he was having fun watching

22:06

and Kate came over and Jack came over and we're

22:09

shooting another cake and he watches. And

22:12

then I'm like, wait a minute. What

22:15

an idiot. They talk about the graduate. They

22:18

start humming Mrs. Rob, or he starts humming Mrs.

22:20

Robinson. I said, wait a minute, this is

22:23

crazy. Why don't you go be

22:25

in the scene? And he said,

22:27

he was cute. He was like, okay, what do you want

22:29

me to do? I said, when he sings, Mrs. Rob,

22:31

I can't remember if they hummed it or

22:33

sang it, Mrs. Robinson. He sang it. We're

22:36

going to cut to you and let's just cut to you

22:38

and you give us something, you know. So he was

22:40

in a sweatshirt. We didn't do his

22:42

hair. We didn't change his clothes. We didn't even

22:44

put makeup on him. He just went over into

22:46

the aisle that they were in. It

22:48

was great. And it really got such a huge laugh. It's

22:50

such a surprise that he's picked, but he would be

22:52

there. It was his neighborhood. So that

22:55

worked for the movie too. Uh-oh. Where

22:57

have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? I bet you

23:00

didn't know. That was all written for the

23:02

movie. It was a score, technically. I didn't

23:04

know that one. I can't believe we were

23:06

falling away. He added a cute line. He

23:09

said, oh, I can't go anywhere or something

23:11

like that. Can't go anywhere. Yeah. Uh, why

23:14

does a movie like that have a rebirth? Do you

23:16

think about that ever? Like, why do people all of

23:18

a sudden fall in love with the movie? I thought

23:20

about it when it started to happen and

23:22

I was so happy because it

23:24

didn't open as anybody thought it

23:27

would. It opened softer. And we

23:29

thought, you know, there's a whole thing

23:31

with Christmas release dates and you want to

23:33

be from the 15th to the 25th or

23:35

the good dates that came out. Unfortunately

23:38

I remember because it was my birthday, December 8th. And

23:42

that's too early? It's too early. It's too early for

23:44

my kind of movie. At least it used to be.

23:46

I mean, I don't know right now what anybody, how

23:49

it works exactly with theatrical releases.

23:51

But the thing they say is

23:53

true. Women are busy. I

23:56

am. I'm really busy for the first

23:58

couple of weeks of December. Movies are not. the

24:00

top of my list. So anyway, The

24:02

the movie didn't perform as I'd hoped

24:04

little on they would help and so

24:07

it took awhile. I don't know what

24:09

happens or how it happened or when

24:11

it happened, but I know it happened

24:13

because. Of people. Talk

24:15

to me about it And I think to rent

24:17

a pandemic and the pre pandemic. Couple

24:20

years. It just sort out rediscovered

24:23

and I am happy. Listen Of

24:25

course I'm happy people like us.

24:29

In. General. There's.

24:31

A sneering. At romantic

24:33

Oh. And.

24:35

I was trying to and try to figure out why. And

24:38

I think. So. As the word romantic.

24:41

Which. Maybe. It's

24:43

a lot of men and some women don't

24:45

like as it sounds schmaltzy like the his

24:47

sir. Tired of a romance is our chance

24:49

but I don't know. and then I thought.

24:52

That the nickname. That

24:54

the abbreviation is a little bit but

24:56

York's rom com a Killer Weather was

24:58

the first person to say that to

25:01

mean I didn't know her that of

25:03

oil after I made it up yesterday

25:05

so as soon as I can't live

25:07

with know But I'm serious. I remember

25:09

when I first heard it was her

25:11

from her like what a superhero movies

25:13

were called. Lake Superior's right like three

25:15

would just it instantly makes them slightly.

25:18

yes last year know it's certainly the

25:20

kids symbol read the threat is kids

25:22

do and yet. You.

25:24

Know. And yet. You're

25:26

movies are not kids. They will move

25:29

there literally thus or there for a

25:31

dollar on the roads and if you

25:33

look in their i. Don't have that C

25:35

F I list or whatever that listens of the

25:38

top hundred movies. There's a lot of. Romantic

25:40

comedies in there because

25:42

it was considered at

25:44

one time I have.

25:47

Great directors did some. Great. To

25:49

have just gotten one way or Hawks did

25:51

some copper did not mean if it's a

25:54

wonderful life is a fantasy movie and a

25:56

romantic comedy isn't as like Against the Girl

25:58

and. In. The

26:01

all those movies haven't. I'm in north

26:03

by northwest. All. There's instead

26:05

of the romance in that movie is

26:07

it's dialogue right out of a romantic

26:09

comedy citrus right at seen on the

26:11

train in North by Northwest to earnest

26:13

Les Mis some as great romantic comedy

26:15

is just clicked in a less supplement

26:17

the comedy writing as clever smart dialogue.

26:20

And witty dialogue so

26:22

I'm listen, sir. They are

26:25

movies that aren't about memes. Primarily.

26:27

Might happen have a lot a

26:29

minimum, but primarily they're not about

26:31

men. they are for people. Don't

26:33

find them that interesting. Like when

26:35

my movie got shut down at

26:37

Netflix. somebody uses spell. That outside.

26:40

Hollywood's. Had a very big. Opinion

26:43

about What. Giving.

26:45

Her. That amount of money

26:47

to make a movie. Not me personally but my

26:49

kind of move in. I think what he was

26:51

saying was movies about women don't get big budgets.

26:55

And I got attacked for it when other people

26:57

pick that up. We're

27:01

going to take a quick break them

27:03

up as he tells me about mortgage

27:06

on screenplays with one of the best

27:08

writers directors in Hollywood history. And

27:10

we were. Before.

27:21

Nancy Myers was a successful director.

27:23

She was an Oscar nominated screenwriter

27:26

throw to first screenplay in the

27:28

late seventies with her husband's itself

27:30

Charles Shire. It came the Nineteen

27:32

Eighty comedy Private Benjamin storing Goldie

27:34

Hawn is Judy Bench. A

27:37

widow who joins the army after

27:39

her husband does. By the way,

27:41

the system slips and we playing.

27:44

He dies while they're having sex

27:46

on their wedding. Dress.

27:51

And I see. So. Large

27:54

size of which like it says

27:56

what's what's your name. City.

28:03

I think. Is

28:05

wrong. Or

28:08

have. Say I since

28:10

you're in the army but I joined a.

28:12

Different. On me. I

28:14

joined the one with the condos.

28:16

And the size. Of

28:19

assists. What

28:22

was an experience like of? By the I? your nominee

28:24

for an oscar for your first that screenplay. Oh.

28:28

No one's ever asked me that. They

28:31

call your somebody calls you were I don't remember

28:33

how he found out. Charles has a better memory.

28:35

I have to call ask a melon. Did

28:37

we find out? maybe we watch that on Tv?

28:39

I don't. Know was I remember I'm

28:41

a widower that I don't remember

28:43

her so now, but I remember

28:45

getting dressed to go. And.

28:49

You know there were no stylist and or anything I

28:51

did my home my own was like to know. Religious

28:53

regular people back then. I

28:57

went out and bought something aware that my hair

28:59

getting ready to get in the car and Regen

29:01

have been shot. And the

29:03

awards are cancelled. My counsel been postponed.

29:05

That was while. Start

29:08

Of A Someone who's receives a lot

29:10

of nominations for writing. As

29:13

you Meet Billie World. Arms.

29:18

When. Charles and I wrote. Baby Boom! We voted

29:20

on spec and which means that it goes

29:23

out to. And

29:25

you know all the studio sort of had sent

29:27

times and or of. A couple

29:30

people that wanted it so we had a choice

29:32

of where we wanted slammed and one place was

29:34

empty. I'm you A who had just. Recently.

29:37

I had read and the trade

29:40

said Billy Wilder was. Working

29:42

for them, As

29:44

an adviser to. Their. Products Baby Rocky Mountain

29:46

Eighty Seven. So this is like eighty

29:48

six. February. So

29:51

we had our age and call over

29:53

and say is there a chance big

29:55

of work they would. Like

29:57

to disrupt lamb. There are steaks.

30:00

M and the an attorney's office of the

30:02

side of the studio. The time he says.

30:05

Absolutely. That's what. Is your forth to

30:07

work with writers his movies we want

30:10

to make bowler so. We.

30:12

Saw the movie to them Oh we

30:14

met Wilder. on

30:17

the street outside the Us is actually

30:19

and he ah. I. Couldn't

30:22

believe my ears! Complementary.

30:24

About the smith. Billy

30:27

Wilder's career spanned five decades. He

30:29

made some of the most important

30:31

movies in history. Sunset. Boulevard

30:33

and double Indemnity Stalag Seventeen and

30:36

a son. The whole plus some

30:38

like it Hot and the Apartment.

30:41

To this day sign of what

30:43

Wilder mentor. Nancy keeps

30:45

a copy of the script for the

30:47

Apartment on her desk. So

30:50

we work to them for a period of time

30:52

and we just would go through the scraps the

30:54

scriptures. I'm pretty good shape of the allow and

30:56

it's. I. Mean who couldn't is Bill is

30:59

a dream is like a dream to have him

31:01

does he notes and disco. And.

31:05

He. Had a very

31:07

chic office. I remember had all

31:09

these sir aims terrorism and she. Sat

31:12

back. In his chair behind his

31:14

desk and he leaned really far back. England really

31:16

for about two point where I thought he's going

31:18

to fall over a team with that that's how

31:20

we thought we were. Had an idea he would.

31:22

Just. Mean mainland. Way

31:25

Back On series. He's a

31:27

fantastic. Story Teller and anybody that's read any books

31:29

about him you will hear of some of the sense

31:31

or is. Over and over, but we got

31:33

years. And person which was great. When

31:36

you're with one of these great storytellers, it doesn't.

31:39

Matter. Whether you've heard the story

31:41

exactly exactly what I'm it's wonderful to

31:43

hear a yes, exactly. So. Yeah.

31:47

Felt that way. He was are you

31:49

know when I'd I'd I. You

31:51

know their reap we had made him a

31:54

Cd elect me how located micro cassettes. He

31:56

recorded the story, record the conversations, in

31:58

the i listened reason to one

32:00

of the meetings with him.

32:04

And he had

32:06

a very dark idea for the opening of the

32:08

movie that he really liked, but I

32:10

couldn't go for it. But the dark idea was

32:14

that the baby who was

32:16

inherited by Diane Keaton, who is a,

32:19

you know, what they used to

32:21

call career woman. So

32:25

his ability's idea was that we

32:27

should start on the funeral and

32:30

the baby should be at the... The baby's

32:32

parents have been killed in an accident. And

32:35

the baby should be at the funeral in

32:37

a bassinet draped in black by

32:40

the coffin. And I was

32:42

thinking, do you remember the monkey that died in

32:44

Sunset Boulevard? Do you remember in the beginning of

32:46

the movie? I thought, I don't know. We're not

32:48

making Sunset Boulevard. I think it's too dark. Didn't

32:52

keep them from pitching it every day when we came in. But

32:56

I do remember our lunches more than the work.

32:59

And he would always tell us what to order. And

33:02

one day he said that egg salad here is terrific.

33:05

You have to get the egg salad, you know,

33:08

and... Do you remember where you were? Yeah, it

33:10

was a little place on Wilshire, but it's not

33:12

there anymore. But there's not a day I don't

33:14

drive by that block, kind of across from Neiman

33:16

Marcus, that I don't look over and flick it

33:18

in a movie, you know, I could see three of us

33:20

sitting there. And I remember I didn't

33:23

order the egg salad. Apparently, he wasn't listening. And I

33:25

have my whatever my chicken sandwich camera, he said, I

33:27

told you he had the egg salad. I

33:29

learned. After that, I just got what he

33:32

told me to get. And

33:37

he had a suggestion for baby boom, too. He

33:39

wanted a certain joke in there, right? He

33:43

said, if you just

33:45

can get the baby to pass wind, you

33:47

will make me very happy. I

33:51

love you. This is Billy Wilder. He's a 120

33:53

page script about a career woman who inherits a

33:56

baby and adjusts to her new life. And

33:58

he's like, we need a fart joke. But you

34:00

want to know something, he also had

34:02

good ideas, obviously, other than that dark one

34:04

and that which, you know, we always

34:06

laughed every time he said it because he said it every day. But

34:09

he also said, what about if

34:12

they're buying her business

34:15

to kill it? Because they just

34:17

want her not

34:19

to have that, they want her back at the company,

34:21

she's a valuable person, you know. And

34:25

we've toyed around with that a lot, we didn't end up

34:27

doing that, but it was a really good idea. It was

34:29

ahead of its time. Good idea.

34:31

Very good idea. Like

34:33

director Billy Wilder, who came to Hollywood

34:35

first as a writer, Nancy Meyers also

34:38

became a director. Many

34:40

of her films are massive

34:42

commercial hits, especially her charming

34:44

romantic comedies, made for

34:47

grown-ups amid an avalanche of

34:49

superhero pictures. Despite

34:51

all that success, the conversation around

34:53

Nancy Meyers and her movies is

34:55

often about the set design, which

34:58

kind of pisses her off. So as

35:00

we were getting ready for this interview, one

35:02

of the things, and everyone on guest interviews

35:04

you maybe gets told this, Nancy doesn't want

35:06

to talk about the core, which to me

35:08

was a great way because I don't give

35:10

a shit about how anybody's kitchen looks in

35:13

any movie in the history of movies. That's

35:15

not why I like your movies, I don't

35:17

think, oh man, that island, right? That's not

35:19

what I come out of a film thinking.

35:22

Why don't you like talking about that? Because

35:31

it gets a lot of attention

35:33

and my name is used a

35:35

lot in describing things now. And

35:41

it just went off, that thing just

35:43

happened. I don't feel it's like not

35:45

me. I didn't

35:48

create that. I didn't come

35:50

up with a pair of white pants and a white

35:52

turtleneck. I didn't come up with

35:54

that. I don't know why

35:56

I got stuck with it. the

36:00

interiors and all that stuff. What

36:02

I do know is that there

36:04

are movies in

36:07

my life that I've seen that

36:09

had interiors that I loved. I looked

36:12

forward to when a scene would be in that room. And

36:14

you know, it's part of the film.

36:17

And these are very talented people that

36:19

contribute to the movie. There's

36:21

a scene in the Philadelphia story, in the

36:23

very beginning of the movie, where

36:26

Catherine Hepburn is, I think she's

36:28

jotting down her gifts or something.

36:30

And she says to her mother, how do you spell omelet?

36:33

How do you spell omelet? O-M-M-E-L-E-T.

36:36

I thought there was another L. And none of them can

36:39

spell it. They're all trying to spell omelet. And she's

36:42

sitting on this gigantic sofa

36:44

with this floral pattern, and

36:46

it's on the drapery. And

36:48

then she's in this fantastic

36:50

outfit with these long legs

36:52

and pants. And then she

36:54

gets off the sofa, and she gets off the

36:57

sofa like nobody's ever gotten off the sofa ever.

36:59

She takes her leg over her sister to

37:01

get off the sofa. So

37:03

the whole room helps. It's not

37:06

much of a scene, but

37:08

there was something about her in

37:10

that room. And that whole

37:12

house is gigantic, but no room is

37:14

like that room. It's kind of the cozy, smaller room

37:16

of the house. It just spoke to me. Or like

37:22

bringing up baby, right? When they go to that

37:24

house in Connecticut. And maybe it's because

37:26

I didn't grow up in a place like that, but movies

37:29

taught me a lot about how people live,

37:33

right? Lubitsch movies, the deco house in Trouble

37:37

in Paradise, the Parisian house. But when

37:39

people talk about Lubitsch movies, they talk

37:41

about the

37:45

comedy and the romance and the Lubitsch touch

37:47

and the manner in which they communicate. They

37:49

don't talk about as

37:51

much about the style and use. Right,

37:54

but I guess I did it in a couple movies

37:56

in a row that people liked the way that looked.

37:58

I don't know. You know,

38:00

of course, that doesn't happen unless people like the

38:02

movies. Like, that doesn't happen if the movies aren't

38:04

good. Well, hopefully they're not. They don't buy

38:07

a ticket to see that

38:09

part of the movie. But I guess

38:12

my point is a long way of saying, I

38:16

think I'm doing what other filmmakers have

38:18

done that I admire, you know, where

38:21

they're giving you a complete package. It's

38:24

been a bit since Nancy Meyers has made a

38:27

feature film. Her last movie came

38:29

out in 2015, The Intern,

38:31

starring Anne Hathaway and Robert De Niro.

38:34

It was delightful. My

38:37

10-year-old daughter loved it. She

38:39

now thinks of Robert De Niro as the

38:41

guy from The Intern. Taxi

38:43

driver is going to baffle her. Anyway,

38:46

just last year, Nancy had a

38:49

movie in pre-production at Netflix called

38:51

Paris Paramount, about a filmmaking

38:53

duo who, after falling in and out

38:55

of love, reunite on set to work

38:57

together again. Netflix bought

38:59

the rights, but according to reports,

39:01

the project was canceled due to

39:04

budgetary concerns. Nancy had already

39:06

cast the film. Michael

39:08

Fassbender, Ellen Wilson, Penelope

39:11

Cruz. Good cast. Yeah,

39:14

super talented people. Yeah, pretty exciting.

39:17

I was, yeah, I was very

39:19

looking forward to it. Yeah, seven weeks

39:22

in, we were, yeah, we

39:24

were just starting our eighth week of

39:26

prep when they, they chose not to make

39:28

it. And what reason did they get here? Financially.

39:31

And this was an expensive movie. And

39:34

I only want to shoot in LA. And

39:36

as you know, most movies shoot out of town because

39:38

it's too expensive to shoot here. But my

39:40

deal was that I stay here. Because

39:43

you live here. I live here. I

39:45

have grandchildren here. I

39:47

have children here. And I

39:49

have gone away to make movies a bunch of

39:52

times. And at this point in

39:54

my life, I didn't want to do that.

39:56

So I retired actually. I really felt, I

39:58

felt happy. happy. You

40:00

were tired before this. I had retired and

40:02

Netflix came to me and asked me to,

40:05

would I

40:08

make a movie for them? And I said, you know, I really

40:10

don't want the stress of the job anymore. Well,

40:13

what about what, what, what, you know, they want to

40:15

know what, what, what, what are the things I said,

40:17

I don't want to leave town. I just don't want it.

40:19

Because you know, I'm not an actor or someone who's like

40:22

a crew member who's, you can't go for

40:24

three weeks and come back. No, I'm there for nine

40:26

months. One movie I was not

40:28

as complicated. It was gone for a little over six

40:30

months. And the intern I was gone

40:33

for nine months. Where for the

40:35

New York? I mean, it's not a terrible place

40:37

to be. But not where your family's not, your

40:39

house's not where my heart is either. You know,

40:41

I like it was whatever. So, so,

40:45

you know, we made a deal that

40:47

I don't leave town. I also wanted to work 10 hour

40:49

days. There was, you know,

40:52

some things that were important to me at 73, the way I

40:54

wanted to make a movie. And

40:57

so they agreed

41:00

to all of that. And, and

41:02

then it was high, it's expensive to

41:04

do that. And it's really sad and

41:06

unfortunate, because the fact that so

41:08

many of us have to leave our homes

41:10

to our jobs. It's unfortunate

41:13

that we don't have the rebate that

41:15

the UK offers or Atlanta offers. That's

41:18

why we still shoot TCM in Atlanta. You go to Atlanta? I go

41:21

to Atlanta every month for 20 years.

41:23

Yeah. Right. I'm going next

41:26

week. Wow. Well,

41:28

it's for four days. It's for four days.

41:30

Yeah, you can carry on if I can

41:32

make a movie in a carry on. Oh

41:35

my God, I'd never check it back. So that's what

41:37

happened. So, so they decided not to make

41:44

the movie and Warner Brothers picked it up.

41:46

And kind of a

41:48

long story that will go on to later. Could

41:52

it still happen at Warner Brothers? I hope so.

41:54

So it's still, it's

41:57

still in some way,

41:59

but it's hard. Yeah. The Yard the cast

42:01

because they and I've. Had

42:03

it has all been lovely. I'm that Nemo like

42:05

we're here for you kind of thing and

42:07

will say if we can. Make it work. Don't

42:12

go anywhere else breaks loose

42:15

dispersed. So.

42:35

This is the part of the

42:37

interview where we ask filmmakers a

42:39

series of set quests, questions about

42:42

movies they've watched, love and haven't

42:44

forgotten we call it are super

42:46

eights because of. Well there are

42:48

a. Oh

42:52

get so we we? Are you ready? But.

42:55

What's your most memorable movie

42:57

Watching Spurs were honestly the

42:59

exorcist really? because. I was

43:02

petrified. am I went by

43:04

myself and afternoon. It

43:06

was raining and I think I can remember of

43:08

this raining. I knew nothing about it. I didn't

43:10

I didn't even know what it was about. I'd

43:13

heard it was good at Bristol and know we're

43:15

here in L A by than originally I thought

43:17

on Wilshire Boulevard. And

43:19

I hadn't nobody's have to

43:21

squeeze. Anyone. When them movie was over I

43:23

got up out of my seat and ran

43:26

out of the theater, ran down the street

43:28

round the corner to my car. got the

43:30

car lock the doors. I was so scared.

43:32

What saw the movie you re watched most

43:34

of. The

43:36

so many that I go back to all the

43:39

time. But ah I

43:41

would say that. The

43:44

Apartment. North

43:46

by northwest. One

43:48

I'd love to watch over and

43:50

over window and much constantly love

43:52

an afternoon. And

43:55

the thought of this or which I could probably recite for

43:57

him. Is there a

43:59

movie? That you would show to a person

44:01

who you are interested in dating. Right

44:05

now I will show them day. Or night.

44:08

Could because you're a year for it. Screenplay:

44:10

As a. Is. A is a

44:12

behind the scenes how it. Is as and

44:14

so I really watched a for night and

44:17

then. Watch that a lot. Lot is

44:19

riding and it's just a great movie I've

44:21

been absolutely great movie and an and it's

44:23

so captures still making as I know and

44:25

I and I don't make. A

44:28

sex movie. So. Does

44:30

that? Some things that happen in that

44:32

movie can happen on any movie? Zero

44:34

A movie loved in high school. When.

44:38

I saw a man on a woman in high school. I.

44:42

Never seen a movie like that of are probably

44:44

never seen a French film before and I never

44:46

saw. I never saw

44:48

love conveyed on screen like that before. Suffering.

44:52

Young person for a teenager was

44:55

exciting and beautiful. That.

44:57

Means something extra. When

44:59

it is spoken by. March

45:02

and. Such. Informed

45:05

you. Going. Forward. Yeah,

45:07

the holiday there's There's a brief little seen

45:10

with Dude and time I'm rather. Have an

45:12

English countryside damn. Manner

45:15

where they went for lunch and then

45:17

the after. their kind of just playing

45:19

around chasing to they're just having fun

45:22

and I. I kept saying that

45:24

seem one of the things are now in

45:26

a woman and ah, I kept wanting it

45:28

to. Be like that and nobody knew

45:30

what I was taught or less successful

45:32

as showed every but it really isn't

45:34

the same but it would Just cysts

45:36

are also those giant close ups of

45:38

them. There is as great as beautiful.

45:40

Is there a year for. Someone's is not

45:42

never been. On last winter teenager and.

45:45

You see something like that gives you hope. Or

45:48

is there movie you have to

45:50

descend to people. Good.

45:52

Naturedly does it. Will.

45:54

People think I don't like anything that isn't

45:56

pretty and funny and. Sweet. So that's

45:58

simply not true. About my

46:01

movie taste. I'm. Kind

46:04

of fits in with as Paddington to

46:06

have since parents into. was a great

46:08

movie so. Beautifully made, so funny,

46:10

so winning sweet. It's dear,

46:13

it's wonderful. It's a it's

46:15

everything you'd hope. You

46:17

know, a children's whether it be a lot and I

46:19

say that not as trial. I love that. You've

46:22

probably mentioned it, but what? what? it was The

46:24

movie Recommend most others. I

46:26

think that really depends on when. Someone.

46:30

When I'm still since you know, I don't have one

46:32

movie that has held onto all these years, although there

46:34

are the classics and I. Recommend

46:37

anybody ever. But I mean like last

46:39

year was the worst person in the

46:41

world. The Norwegian movies fabulous movie. so

46:43

great. To. See nope but

46:45

i know you're not the few

46:47

latest survey for hims of so.

46:49

Beautifully towards. She's wonderful and

46:52

it's is so beautifully directed

46:54

and the stories so. Is

46:57

wonderful. But right now this year or

46:59

not, this year this month. I've

47:02

been recommending Modern Times People because I

47:04

just saw it's and first time. Is

47:06

off at first. And

47:08

I just, I mean my mind

47:10

responses. Seating machine. Good

47:12

morning my friends! The Arctic The pleasure

47:15

of introducing Mister J Will a phone

47:17

Bills Inventor of the bill was feeding

47:19

machine a practical device which automatically feed

47:21

your men while at work. Billy.

47:24

Wilder has the same as line that

47:26

comedy does not. Get

47:29

better with age like a fine wine,

47:31

but. That tough on

47:33

that is since brilliant. Or

47:36

is there movie makes you cry. Without them.

47:39

Planes. Trains and automobiles. Not

47:42

the answer. Expert data set aside

47:44

from what is this and gotta

47:46

give a the oh wow what?

47:48

what? What part makes you cry.

47:51

A fiance on their kind the

47:53

trunk together to to has Aussies,

47:55

Hauser, Thanksgiving and also John Candy

47:58

says i'm at home and. section.

48:00

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

48:05

Did your mom have a favorite movie or dad? My

48:08

mom was much more about music but

48:10

my dad liked The Great Escape. Loved

48:13

The Great Escape. I love

48:15

The Great Escape. Nancy, thank you so much and

48:17

thanks for taking so much time. Thank you so

48:19

much for inviting me. Yeah, this was lovely. You

48:21

have a nice house, by the way. I thought

48:23

it would be a dump but it's actually pretty

48:25

nice. What a dump. Thank

48:28

you. I

48:31

thought it would be a dump. It's the best compliment ever,

48:33

guys. What a great way

48:35

to launch this season of Talking Pictures. So

48:38

many good movies mentioned in my

48:40

conversation with Nancy Meyers. But

48:42

after all those Billy Wilder stories, I'm going

48:44

to rewatch one from him. That's also one

48:47

of my favorites, Ace in

48:49

the Hole, starring Kirk Douglas from

48:51

1951. Still so relevant

48:53

today. Then you can indulge

48:56

in Sunset Boulevard from 1950 and Stalag 17 from

48:58

1953, both of those with William

49:03

Holden. But only if you

49:05

like great movies. That's our

49:07

show. We have more to come

49:09

this season. Alexander Payne, Mel Brooks,

49:11

Emerald Fennell, and next week, Steven

49:14

Soderbergh. You

49:21

could find many of the movies we talked about on

49:23

the streaming service Max. We made a list for you.

49:25

It's in our show notes. James

49:27

Kim produces and edits Talking Pictures.

49:30

Dorie Stegman books the show. Glenn

49:32

Matullo mixes each episode. Thanks

49:34

to Phil Richards, Yako Friedman,

49:37

Julie Vuitton, Katie Daniels, and

49:39

Emma Morris. Angela Carone

49:41

is our executive producer. Special

49:43

thanks to Michael Gluckstad and Allison

49:45

Cohen from Max's podcast team. And

49:48

as always to Charlie Taddish from TCM. See

49:50

you next time.