0:09

Hello and welcome back to the Pivot Point podcast

0:12

, where me , your host , jessica McGahn

0:14

, and my guests explore the pivotal

0:17

moments that shape our lives . Today's

0:19

episode is for the entrepreneurs

0:22

and for the bakers . If you fit into

0:24

either of those categories , you are

0:26

sure to love today's episode with my guest

0:28

, naomi Rose . In 2018

0:31

, naomi decided to train and

0:33

race in her very first ever marathon

0:36

, which then , in turn , inspired

0:38

her to quit her office job to

0:40

follow her passion for baking . Through

0:43

grit , passion , tenacity

0:46

and perseverance , naomi

0:48

navigated the wild world of

0:50

opening and running a cafe and

0:52

bar , and not just under

0:54

normal everyday circumstances

0:56

my word no but rather through

0:58

the global pandemic

1:01

. In this episode

1:03

, naomi takes us through the mental

1:05

and emotional hurdles she faced , the

1:07

problems she solved and how

1:09

she was able to be successful through

1:12

it all . Today , naomi

1:14

is the proud owner and founder of

1:16

Baking Boss . In 2018

1:19

, she opened a cafe and bar and bakery

1:21

which became nationally award-winning

1:24

for its homemade bread . Early

1:26

in 2023 , she took everything she

1:28

learned and turned it into her new business

1:31

, baking Boss , where

1:33

she teaches online baking workshops

1:35

as well as supports other bakers with

1:37

their businesses . Naomi has

1:40

a lot to share with us today , so

1:42

, without further ado , let's

1:44

dive in . Naomi

1:51

, I am so excited to dive into this conversation

1:53

with you . Thank you so much for joining me all the way

1:55

from the UK . How are you ? I'm

1:57

good . How are you ? I'm good

2:00

, I'm enjoying this rainy day . It feels a little

2:02

bit like England here . It's a bit rainy

2:04

and dark today in my office .

2:07

As it happened , the sun has just decided

2:09

to pour through my top window , so hence

2:11

why I'm half in dark , I'm half in bright sunlight

2:13

, so I can't see anything .

2:15

Oh my goodness , well you look great from my end

2:17

and I'm sure all of you have good ears , so

2:21

I'm excited to dive into this conversation with

2:23

you . As we talked about before I pressed

2:26

that record button , there's two different

2:28

kinds of pivotal moments that I've

2:30

noticed . My experience and from the

2:32

interviews I've had so far is that there's moments

2:35

that happen to us , like

2:37

the car accident or a family

2:39

divorce or a

2:41

betrayal , and for you

2:43

in this conversation it was a

2:47

ha moment of sorts , a

2:49

change that came from and within

2:51

you , and I've experienced these moments

2:54

myself and I love hearing

2:56

other people's journeys through these

2:58

moments . So I'm really excited to hear

3:00

this story from you .

3:02

Yes , I was probably . It's really actually

3:05

. It probably started back

3:07

in 2017 . So I'd

3:10

been in a job . I worked

3:12

nine to five for a long time . I

3:15

headed up a digital team . I worked in

3:17

offices and we

3:19

did digital marketing communications . It's

3:22

quite a fun job , in fairness , but I was just

3:24

. It wasn't challenging me in any

3:26

way , shape or form anymore and

3:28

for some unbeknown reason , which I

3:30

don't know why but I thought I feel like

3:33

I'm going to run a marathon and

3:35

I'd only run all of about five miles

3:37

at this point and thought it might be an easy

3:40

task to undertake , because how

3:42

much further is it ? It's like 26 miles

3:44

. It's like five times . It was so

3:46

difficult .

3:48

Do you remember , like , where you were when you

3:50

just had this download of I should run a marathon

3:52

? Like were you at first thought ? Were you watching

3:54

people run on the streets ? Like where did that come from

3:56

?

3:58

We had a run club at work and we

4:00

went out after work at least

4:02

once a week , just a

4:04

, you know . It was either one or two , three or four of

4:06

us or whoever was available and did 5K

4:09

. And I kind of got into running a bit more

4:11

from that and I'd done the odd 5K

4:13

here and there for charity

4:15

and stuff . But I wasn't a runner Runner

4:18

was not my thing and

4:20

I think I was just getting bored of the monotony

4:22

of being in an office and I thought I really need

4:24

to just push myself and just

4:26

prove to myself I can do something . And

4:29

it was something that I thought it kind of lurks in the

4:31

back of your mind , of things you want to achieve in life , and

4:33

that was one of them that I kind of like I'll be great to be able

4:35

to say I've done that . So

4:37

I thought , right , well , what am I waiting for ? I've

4:39

got a stable job , it's

4:42

not testing me . Why

4:44

don't I do it now ? And

4:46

yes , I didn't quite really anticipate

4:48

how much it would take

4:50

over and the training and I was fundraising

4:53

as well . So I was raising money for charity , but

4:56

the actual reward of doing it and

4:58

getting to the finish line and achieving something

5:01

quite well mammoth really

5:03

for someone that hadn't really run much , just

5:07

kind of . I'm the only one

5:09

that's putting all of these limits on myself . Why

5:11

am I stopping myself from doing what I want to do

5:13

? But actually I've just proved to myself I could

5:15

do a lot more than I thought , and

5:18

that's when I kind of thought I just don't want

5:20

to do this job for the rest of my life .

5:22

I've just been working for someone else for the rest of my life

5:24

, and

5:26

that come from completing the race , or

5:28

in the process of running

5:30

, or in the process of training for this

5:33

marathon .

5:35

The training for the marathon hurt

5:37

. It was tough . I'll

5:39

say that it was . It was harder

5:41

than I expected and I had to

5:43

really anticipate . I injured myself because I

5:45

tried to over train and then I couldn't run

5:48

for about a month . So I had to

5:50

then , which probably in a way helped

5:52

because I had to change to swimming and

5:54

that actually probably built up my strength a lot better

5:56

than actually doing the aggressive running

5:59

as it happened . So actually

6:01

really kind of rethought , but

6:04

the actual when I was doing the marathon it was all

6:06

I could think about for about four months

6:08

. It was everything I was eating

6:10

. Everything I was doing was everything

6:12

was wrapped around doing the marathon . I

6:15

had to really completely rethink how

6:17

I did everything . So it's after

6:19

I done that I kind of thought

6:21

I've got the

6:23

freedom to do whatever I want , because I've proved

6:26

to myself that actually if I put my mind to

6:28

something , I can achieve something more than

6:30

I thought . So that's where

6:32

I kind of got the idea of , like , I

6:34

just want to be my own boss , I don't want to work for

6:36

anybody else . And

6:39

so it kind of went from there and

6:41

I quit my job . I

6:43

have been known to quit my jobs without any other jobs

6:45

in the past before , because I just think , well

6:48

, if I'm done in a job , I'll just leave , because

6:50

there's no point in me hanging on , because I'm just not going to

6:52

enjoy it , and as humans

6:54

we're normally survivors , so I will figure

6:56

something out afterwards , which is why I normally

6:58

do .

6:59

So you weren't like , you weren't secure

7:01

, you had no idea where you were going next . You

7:03

just knew that this job was not

7:05

for you . It was not adding value to your life

7:08

, you were unhappy with it and you were quick to move

7:10

. You're like nope , no longer for me . I got to go . I'll

7:12

find something else . Bye , Exactly

7:14

.

7:15

So I did , I kind of handed

7:17

in my latest and my company I was working for

7:20

saying would you mind just staying for one

7:22

more year and just covering

7:24

a maternity cover for us ? And you can

7:26

. But I said only on the basis

7:29

that the role I was in

7:31

gets filled permanently because I'm not

7:33

coming back and I don't want to cause

7:35

people wondering whether they're going to have jobs or not at

7:37

the end of this . Basically , I'll do this and

7:39

then I'm gone . So my team

7:42

couldn't really understand that

7:44

I hadn't got a plan . So

7:47

you quit and you're not going to come back ? Yeah

7:49

, how

7:51

Well , I'll figure it out . I

7:53

don't know what I'm going to do yet , but I'll figure out something

7:55

.

7:56

Did you have any children

7:59

or dependents at this time , or were you

8:01

free to do as please ?

8:04

I was . Fortunately , I was in a very lucky position

8:06

that I could just do what I want and I didn't necessarily

8:09

have children

8:11

to look after . So when

8:13

I got to a point where I was kind

8:16

of starting to think , well , I'm going to need to figure out what I want

8:18

to do , and I knew I wanted to work for myself I

8:20

was thinking , maybe I'll do a digital consultancy

8:23

or something like that . And that's

8:25

when the building in my local

8:27

town became available and it was a

8:29

disused night club and it was you

8:32

can imagine disused night club that hadn't been

8:34

used in 12 years , Don't ? want

8:36

to imagine that no

8:39

no , it was not nice , it

8:41

really wasn't nice . But underneath all of that

8:43

not-nice-ness was this

8:45

beautiful Art Deco 1920s

8:48

building that still had so much original

8:50

history and

8:52

I was like this will make an amazing

8:54

cafe and bar and it needs to be brought back to life

8:56

, because all of this history has been lost

8:58

and it kind of snowballed from

9:01

there . So I've gone sort

9:03

of thinking I'm going to just work for myself , to then suddenly

9:05

going I'm going to have

9:07

a cafe and bar . I like baking , I've always

9:09

baked and I you know

9:11

everything I did fundraising for the marathon

9:14

, I baked , I used to go on baking

9:16

courses and I just that would

9:18

be just so good to do that . I love doing

9:20

that . So that's where it went , and

9:23

I think my last

9:25

day in my job was in the November and

9:28

we'd been working on getting the

9:30

building up to scratch and then we opened in December

9:32

, so it had gone really

9:35

quickly .

9:36

Oh my gosh . Yeah , things moved very

9:38

, but it sounds to me like you were just open

9:41

to all of it . You were open to receiving

9:43

that . I'm a little bit spiritual

9:46

and hippie-dippy , but like you were open to receiving

9:48

help from the universe . You were looking for

9:50

new opportunities and when they presented

9:52

you with one , you were able to see it as

9:55

something for you . Did

9:58

you know anything about , like ? If

10:00

I thought about opening a shop

10:02

or a bakery , I feel like my

10:04

mind would completely take over and like tell

10:06

me , I don't know how to run a business , I don't

10:08

know how to like , where would the money come from

10:10

? Fear , fear , fear . Did

10:12

any of that happen for you ? Or

10:14

were you just in this full feeling of like ? I

10:17

know I will figure this out .

10:21

It was a real mix of both . I mean , it was a complete

10:23

emotional roller coaster . And

10:25

my skill set I'm

10:27

a project manager by that's where I'm

10:29

happy being project managing so I thought , right , okay

10:32

, I know what I need to do to

10:34

get the doors open . I'm gonna work backwards

10:36

and work out what I need to learn to get there

10:38

. And it was a huge learning curve

10:40

. I didn't know anything about building

10:42

control , I didn't know anything about environmental

10:45

health , but it was . It

10:48

was a complete team effort and

10:50

my husband mostly managed

10:52

the trades coming in . So one day we had nine

10:55

different trades in there because Stuff

10:57

like the park . A few up flooring which was

10:59

beautiful by the time we finished it it

11:01

really wasn't . When we started it took eight weeks

11:04

to polish that up . It was the biggest . Actually

11:06

restoring the building . Oh , my

11:09

goodness and that you

11:11

know on my list . It was like God , do the marketing

11:13

I've got to do , I've got to figure out how to

11:15

employ people . But we

11:17

figure out all the legal HR , all contracts

11:19

, and I just write a massive project

11:21

management list and work through it and days

11:24

were like , yes , I've got this , and there are other days

11:26

were like I'm in a complete planet . What the hell have

11:28

I done ? I cannot do this . It was really

11:30

like completely , it

11:33

was mad and Talk

11:35

me through those moments .

11:37

Sorry , but like , talk me through those moments where

11:39

you just were like , did I do the wrong

11:41

thing or I just want to give up , like

11:43

this is so much harder than I thought it was going to be , because

11:45

entrepreneurship Really does

11:47

that . Like new business owners , we all experienced

11:50

these moments of Wow , this

11:52

is a mountain much higher than I

11:54

, than I thought initially when I started climbing

11:56

it . How did you get yourself

11:58

through those moments of I

12:00

don't want to do this anymore .

12:04

In . It was tough and it was sometimes

12:07

it was a matter of taking a step back and

12:09

going and talking to people , and we

12:13

had to . My original deadline for getting it

12:15

over was actually the 25th of November

12:17

, so we'd actually started the build in October but

12:20

we just weren't going to be ready . And the reason

12:22

I put it at that date was because our town

12:24

of the God the Christmas lights which on , and

12:26

I thought that'd be perfect for open then , as

12:29

it probably happened . It

12:31

was much better opening when we did , which was about

12:33

two weeks later or so , and

12:36

we were much better prepared . We'd had a bit more

12:38

time to put everything together

12:40

and we could go in , even though I

12:43

thought a lot the hard work had been done

12:45

up until opening day I had no idea

12:47

how Go opening December

12:49

, but it's the month of the year . Yeah

12:53

, it was new technology , new systems

12:56

, new customers . You

12:58

know we're figuring out food service

13:00

and we we

13:02

started . You know , we kind

13:05

of knew that the first day . You know there'd be

13:07

teasing problems . I didn't . I

13:09

accommodated for the worst case scenario of what

13:11

. No one came in . I didn't accommodate for

13:13

what if everybody came in . So I had to

13:15

find new staff very quickly

13:17

because we had a small team and my Staff

13:19

doubled almost by January because

13:21

it was so busy , which was

13:23

great . It's a great problem

13:26

to have . But I was then

13:28

sort of confronted with people complaining

13:30

about closed service and Different

13:32

days of the week were so different

13:34

in terms of service . So the weekdays

13:36

were very different to weekends , where Everybody's

13:39

in a very different mood and mindset . On the

13:42

weekend you really got like

13:44

in the week it was a bit more steady and

13:46

you could manage it . But on the weekends we started

13:48

calling Saturdays savage Saturdays because

13:50

it was a whole different

13:52

way you had to run service

13:54

because it was so , so much

13:56

busy and people were out . They want to get stuck

13:58

done . They didn't want to wait and

14:01

we were still new . We're still learning

14:03

.

14:04

Had you worked a little bit of a learning curve . Had you

14:06

worked in the service industry at all , like as

14:08

a young kid growing up like waitressing

14:10

at a cafe or anything like that .

14:13

I've done that about six months at my local

14:15

pub , so it was a fairly

14:17

. I had a bit of an inkling but

14:19

it was , yeah , very much a country bumpkin

14:22

kind of pub . So nothing compared

14:24

to this sort of different service . I hadn't

14:26

, you know my team

14:28

. We had barista training . We had to

14:30

learn all about the coffee . We

14:32

had to learn all about the different teams , even

14:35

like planning how what's put

14:37

on the menu and how that actually works physically

14:40

and Storing all the food

14:42

ingredients , how service would work if you

14:44

had multiple different things on . Again

14:46

, it was a completely different way

14:49

of working and , of course , all new equipment .

14:51

So it was really it's

14:53

all new , it seems all very new .

14:56

Yeah , and the team I had

14:58

, they were , they were fantastic . They

15:01

, we just we work very collaboratively

15:03

together , because that was my method

15:05

. I work collaboratively with my team because

15:08

I know you that , having

15:10

worked in digital , you learn that there

15:13

are people like web developers

15:15

that I am not a developer by any means

15:17

, even though I lead digital teams and that's what I've done in

15:19

the past but the

15:21

developers , they have a whole different level of

15:23

understanding . I just need them to do the job . I don't

15:25

need to know how to do the job . So I

15:28

took that approach into my team of

15:30

, like you are going to know so much more

15:32

than me about working in the kitchen because you've

15:34

done it before , unlike me , so

15:36

let's work together to figure out how this is going

15:38

to work for you and for me , because there's

15:41

no point in me telling you because I'm not experienced

15:43

in this , but you've done this before , so let's

15:45

do that . So it was a really good

15:48

way of working and building that relationship

15:50

with the team and you know it wasn't

15:52

me making all the decisions by myself . We

15:55

were figuring it out together and I

15:58

think by sort of Easter

16:00

next , the following year , we'd

16:02

realized that we'd got the sink in the wrong

16:04

place in the kitchen so we ripped it out and moved it

16:06

because it wasn't quite working

16:08

in terms of workplace . So there was so

16:11

many different things that just adapted

16:13

and changed as we grew and as

16:15

we learn , and it

16:17

sounds like you're very good .

16:19

You're . It sounds like you're a very collaborative leader , which

16:21

I think is one of the best ways to lead , like you don't

16:23

. You didn't

16:25

present yourself as I'm the

16:27

boss , so I know better than everyone it was

16:29

. You're an expert here . You're an expert here

16:32

. I hired you because I trust you and

16:34

I'm excited to partner with you . I think

16:36

that's really beautiful .

16:38

Yes , I think sometimes it can be a

16:40

good thing and sometimes it could be a

16:42

negative in a way , or when you have to be

16:44

quite authoritative , it can sometimes work

16:46

in the wrong way , but it's

16:48

finding that right balance . But certainly as

16:51

it was completely new thing , everybody

16:54

was learning as we went along and

16:57

we adjusted , we changed

16:59

customers , changed . We then

17:01

had COVID right in the middle of it , which also

17:03

then completely changed everything . So

17:06

it was we started

17:09

with a cafe and bar and partly

17:11

because the cafe was what

17:14

I love to do I like to do the baking . My

17:16

team that I employed they also like to bake

17:18

, so it worked really well . Bar was

17:20

gonna be gin wines , quite

17:23

easy service . But we realized that everybody

17:25

wanted cocktails and naively

17:27

I thought there's quite a few cocktail places

17:30

so we're off of something different . No , people

17:32

want cocktails . So

17:35

within the first four months we got

17:37

cocktail bar manager

17:39

in and just completely

17:41

we did a whole drinks menu and it worked really

17:43

well . So that way then the

17:46

bar was kind of like the cash cow

17:48

of the business . It was the side that actually

17:50

brought in the money much more than the cafe

17:52

. So they paired quite well together

17:54

and we could do the live music events

17:56

and all these other bits , but

17:59

obviously COVID completely . We

18:01

had 15 months before COVID came in , so

18:03

it was then a completely different challenge

18:05

and one that the whole

18:07

world was in together . We're trying to figure out

18:09

, then , how to go through navigating

18:11

, and in the UK they changed

18:13

the rules on who could be with who

18:16

, who could sit with people .

18:17

We had a hard time . Yeah

18:19

, In Canada we both , just like , really suffered

18:21

during that time .

18:24

It was tough and you can feel you know

18:26

the hospitality industry

18:29

. Every time , like the government would change

18:31

their mind on who could sit with who , or varying

18:33

different rules , we would sit down

18:36

and we'd have two days to figure out that a new

18:38

complete operational way of working

18:40

that my team would have to enforce with customers

18:43

. It was kind of like a such a bizarre

18:45

time to go , oh yeah .

18:47

I was a waitress and bartender for

18:49

10 years . It was a really great time . It

18:52

supported my life , of travel and

18:54

I remember during COVID being like I

18:56

am so grateful that I am not in the hospitality

18:59

business right now , because that

19:01

industry is just getting destroyed

19:03

. It got destroyed by COVID , like with

19:05

angry customers and people

19:07

who didn't want to wear masks , and then

19:10

the government's like the distancing

19:12

and then the patios and it was just

19:14

a nightmare .

19:16

Yeah , it was really tough and

19:18

we in my town

19:20

there was a lot of regulars and a lot of them didn't

19:22

come back . So they were so . Not because

19:24

they were afraid of how we are managing

19:26

it , because they said the opposite , they were just going

19:29

back out socially was really hard for

19:31

them . So , you know

19:33

, it took a little while and I

19:35

, because we play

19:37

, I think , in 2020 , it being sort

19:40

of we've been open , closed , open , closed the bar

19:42

had been shut for quite a long time

19:44

, which was very frustrating from my perspective

19:47

. People were definitely very

19:49

nervous about coming in , but there was lots of laws

19:51

and drinking and things in the evening as

19:53

well . And in 2021

19:56

, I thought I'm not going to do delivery

19:58

to start with , because we weren't set up for it , we

20:00

weren't able to get stock , we weren't

20:03

able to get solely things . So when we went into

20:05

lockdown , we just locked down . And

20:07

then 2021 , I thought I

20:09

might just see if people want like afternoon

20:11

teas or something delivered , because

20:14

we've got Valentine's Day , we've got Mother's Day

20:16

, they're all lovely days and maybe , you know , people

20:18

might need like a just to pick me up , because

20:20

this is going on a bit and

20:22

that worked really well and actually

20:24

, if nothing else , it kept me myself

20:26

and my team a little bit sane because we could

20:28

actually come in and do a bit of work and then sit at home

20:31

. So I was out delivering

20:33

, they were helping me to bake stuff . We're

20:35

boxing them all up in lovely boxes and

20:37

it was a really kind of nice thing to do . And

20:39

during that time of

20:41

being sort of in the lockdown , I started making

20:43

bread again , because my

20:46

ethos was support . I was local so

20:48

I wanted to support locals . So all of them , the majority

20:50

of my suppliers , were local , and

20:53

one we'd had no end of problems with was

20:55

a bakery , and they'd partly

20:57

because they were just struggling with staff . So

20:59

we'd get bread orders arrive at

21:02

lunchtime when we open

21:04

at nine , and of course , one of the biggest

21:06

things that we sold was breakfasts

21:08

and sandwiches and we're like we're

21:10

having to run out and get supermarket bread

21:12

because our supply was letting us down . So

21:15

I was like we can't keep doing this anymore

21:17

.

21:17

It's not the best way and of course

21:20

the customers don't know that . The customers go

21:22

. Why are you serving me this

21:24

?

21:25

They don't know that it's not your fault

21:27

. Exactly . So

21:29

I thought I just really enjoy

21:32

making bread and in the chaos of kind

21:34

of getting the business set up , it just had to go to one side

21:36

. So I thought

21:38

actually , if we're just serving

21:40

bread for the cafe , I could

21:42

do small batches and we'll just serve it as normal

21:45

bread . And that's when people start to say , where did you get

21:47

your bread from ? And I'm like , well , we'll make it here . Like

21:49

, can I buy some ? Like

21:51

, well , yes , so we started doing low level stuff

21:53

and it made me think maybe

21:56

my town wants a bakery , maybe this is

21:58

something they want . And we

22:01

had a room out the back that had

22:03

been used for kind of keeping all the group

22:05

bookings out the way of the main space , because

22:07

in groups people tend to get quite loud

22:09

and we had big , tall ceilings in our building

22:11

. So just for anyone else that came in , we had a

22:13

group in . It was just not

22:16

a great experience . So we used to put the groups out there

22:18

, but with COVID we couldn't do big

22:20

groups . I'm like , actually this

22:22

space would make a great bakery . And

22:24

I've gone to the bank and said , could we get a small

22:26

loan ? They went because they

22:28

were doing resilience loans , so this was a way

22:30

to help businesses sort of get back on their feet

22:32

again and the bank said no , because

22:35

you're not making any profit . I'm like we're breaking

22:37

even . Surely that's not a bad thing in the middle of

22:39

COVID .

22:40

Yeah , absolutely .

22:42

So it kind of defeated the object of

22:44

what a resilience loan was . Given

22:46

that you weren't making any profits

22:49

, it's not really a resilience . But anyway , I

22:51

thought , well , maybe I'll just

22:53

. One of my friends said well

22:55

, why didn't you crowdfund ? I'm

22:58

like in every one occurred to me . Actually , this is

23:00

a genius idea because if

23:02

I say to my local community , I

23:05

really want to build a bakery , would you be interested

23:07

in investing in what we're doing ? And

23:09

they say , yes , I'll know this is

23:11

onto a winner and it worked

23:13

. So that was quite something

23:16

. I'd launched campaigns before in

23:18

my past , but nothing like this , nothing where I

23:20

thought I'd get the backing . We did and

23:23

we exceed our target .

23:23

How much money did you raise ? Yeah ?

23:26

We had a target of 15,000

23:29

pounds in the UK . We got to 17

23:31

.

23:32

So we've gone well in cheerio

23:34

, thank you .

23:35

And we had 300 people back to us as well , which is

23:37

amazing . And then , of course , they were investors

23:39

. And I mean , having

23:42

done the crowdfunding campaign , why didn't think

23:44

of it sooner , I don't know . But actually what

23:46

was great was I got 300

23:48

people that some were already customers

23:50

, but some weren't necessarily customers

23:52

, but then I had already me and Paul of people

23:55

that were going to come into my place to pick up their

23:57

rewards or engage with us

23:59

in some way . Like

24:01

this is a great way to start a business

24:03

is have like the community behind

24:06

you . So I

24:08

had found it was really difficult finding

24:10

bakers in my town because it's quite

24:12

small and we weren't in the main city

24:14

. But I found a baker who was going

24:16

to be my head baker and together we saw put together

24:19

the bread and I was like I'm going

24:21

to have to do sourdough , which I have

24:23

not got on with before because I just

24:25

never could get it to work correctly . But sourdough

24:28

is trendy .

24:29

So yeah , sourdough like really trended

24:32

during COVID yeah .

24:34

I'm like there's no way I could open a bakery without

24:36

having sourdough . So we

24:38

practiced for two months . It

24:40

was literally we had

24:42

batches of loaves and I think

24:44

, one the Christmas of 2022

24:47

, we broke up Christmas because

24:49

I let my staff have some time with their family over Christmas

24:51

and it was just on the report , because

24:54

we reported every time we baked something , because we

24:56

were trying to work out how to make everything

24:58

work really well and at the bottom it's like came

25:00

out flat again , sad face and

25:02

that was the best we could Like you

25:04

documented , you kept like a

25:06

spreadsheet or something of like what we did and

25:09

whether or not it worked or not . Okay , yeah , I'm

25:12

going to close this off making something like

25:14

sourdough . You have to . You've got your starter

25:16

, which you have to then feed and nurture . Once

25:19

you've fed it , you've got to then wait till you

25:21

can use it in your bread . So

25:23

there's a whole train of processes to

25:26

get it to where it needs to be and

25:28

it's a timeline . So if you wanted to say

25:30

by Saturday , we would start it

25:32

on Thursday . So again

25:34

, it was quite a process of getting it right , but

25:36

it just wasn't working for us . We just weren't

25:38

getting it right , and over that Christmas

25:41

I just played about with it . I had a , took

25:43

it on like that . So I've got to go back to basics

25:45

. I'm going to get my scientist hat on and

25:48

I'm going to treat this like an experiment . I'm not going to keep getting

25:50

infuriated by the fact we can't get the spread

25:52

right and we

25:55

just something just clicked . I changed . I

25:58

changed how I fed the starter by 25

26:00

grams of water . That was it . That wasn't

26:02

all it needed for us to get it right to

26:04

what we needed it to be , and it suddenly

26:07

just started to work .

26:08

Baking is such a science . It is such

26:10

a science .

26:12

It was crazy . And so when I went back

26:14

in after Christmas and

26:16

we start baking , then

26:18

bulking up to do the batches again , it

26:21

started working . It's like that's it . We're going to open in the January

26:23

. Great , so we'd opened and it was fantastic

26:26

. We had the mayor come in with the whole room

26:28

and kind of thing . So it was , it

26:30

was awesome .

26:31

Didn't you win an award for

26:33

your loaf like best loaf , Was

26:35

that ?

26:35

your sourdough loaf . Well

26:38

, actually , as it happened , I'd

26:40

, after we'd opened , I'd had an email

26:42

saying do you want to open or do you want to

26:44

enter Britain's best loaf awards ? And I

26:46

thought you know what I'll enter

26:48

. I'm not going to tell my team , because they will , they

26:51

will freak out that I've even done this , but

26:53

I'm kind of thinking , actually , the

26:55

local community love our bread , but it'd be good to go and

26:57

actually talk to a judge and find out what

26:59

we could do better , how we can improve it

27:02

. Yeah , so I thought we would

27:04

network with some other bakeries , get

27:06

to know a few people that are like the best bakeries

27:08

in the country , and we'll

27:11

go to an exhibition

27:13

where they have lots of different food on , so it's

27:15

part of a food expose . Well , it sounds

27:17

like a great day out to me and you

27:19

know we get to get a bit of feedback . And

27:22

so I entered into five different

27:24

cash , with the white loaf being one

27:26

granaries sourdough . And

27:28

then there was another couple that sort of had what they call

27:30

inclusions in , so these were breads that

27:32

had like extra

27:35

seeds added in or

27:37

anything like that . So we under

27:39

special category . So we did a few different categories

27:42

and when

27:44

I eventually told . I eventually told my team

27:47

about a month to go because I thought I'm not going to tell them so

27:49

they will start to panic about it . And

27:51

yes , my head baker , I think , left the end of his shift

27:53

to believe the take a bite . I was like what have you done

27:56

? I'm like it's just going to be a learning experience

27:58

. Just just take it as a learning thing and

28:00

you know it'll be a nice day out . We're

28:03

going to go on a jolly , we'll all go in the car together

28:05

, it'll be great fun . And the

28:07

judging is one of the most serious things

28:09

I've ever watched . They are proper . There's about

28:11

nine judges . They're all in lab coats

28:13

Nine , nine

28:16

and they've got hundreds

28:18

of loaves . There's literally tables of them

28:20

in different categories and you watch them and

28:22

they're cutting it , they're pulling it apart , they're

28:24

looking at the crust and discussing it . You can't

28:27

hear anything they're saying because they whisper it to each

28:29

other . So we're all standing there , we're

28:31

trying to watch and work out what they're

28:33

saying and in the end it was

28:35

too much so we all had to walk away , go

28:37

do something else . So I will just come back at the awards

28:40

ceremony and then find out who's won all

28:43

the categories and we

28:45

then won for the White Farmhouse

28:47

Life , which was . We

28:49

were both completely we're all completely gobsmacked

28:52

that we'd even won it and I think my head baker

28:54

at the time said you've got to be joking . I

28:58

just couldn't believe . I

29:00

mean , the bread was really good and

29:02

we worked so hard and I think it's just

29:04

credit to how much they worked . The sourdough

29:07

was , as you can imagine , one of the

29:09

biggest categories , so there was a lot

29:11

of entries into the sourdough . I

29:13

think we came around third and

29:15

it was because we just put a bit too much flour

29:17

on the top . It was literally that much in it

29:20

. So after all of that work , to know that we

29:22

were so close to getting that , it was actually

29:24

really kind of oh , we're

29:26

just nearly there . So that's really good to sort

29:28

of know . And it was . It

29:30

was a really great event and it

29:32

was fantastic . So it was

29:35

such a reward to have kind of got that . And then obviously

29:37

we've got the press and media off the back of that

29:39

as well , for when we came

29:41

back from that , which was really great . But

29:44

you know it was

29:46

one of those situations where we're sort of

29:48

like that's , you know , we've done really well , this is

29:50

going to really change a lot of things , and particularly after

29:52

the last couple of years . But then we were

29:54

clobbered immediately , pretty much afterwards

29:56

, by the cost of living crisis . Because

29:59

we had so many big problems

30:01

here in the UK , my flour

30:03

deliveries went from three days literally overnight

30:06

to 14 days and it's

30:08

not like we went for a small amount of flour . So

30:11

I spent a lot of nights trying to find

30:13

flour . So my bakery team that's right .

30:14

There was a shortage on all of the like a

30:17

bunch of like . It wasn't

30:19

like the baking powder

30:21

, or there was a bunch of shortage , everything

30:23

.

30:23

There was anything and the price is

30:26

just skyrocketed . Things went up

30:28

so much and including

30:30

energy bills here just went

30:32

from some bakeries because

30:34

every bakery was being

30:37

sort of hit from all angles because the

30:39

energy went up from . You

30:42

know , some bakeries were paying 1500 pounds

30:44

a month to five figures a month

30:46

and you're like this is unsustainable , how

30:48

do we make this work ? Because it's just so

30:51

astronomical and

30:53

it kind of everything

30:56

sort of just kind of snowballed from there really , because

30:58

customers tightened their belts on how

31:01

much they were spending , suppliers were putting

31:03

up their costs and it

31:05

was . It was so hard and staff

31:07

of course had their

31:09

attitudes slightly changed , whereas over COVID

31:11

a lot of people were coming in

31:14

and I'd been very lucky I

31:17

was still very lucky to the very end of some of my core staff

31:19

, but a lot of . I went through

31:21

more staff in that last year , sort of

31:23

after the bakery opened , than

31:25

the whole three years beforehand , because

31:28

people just didn't want to work in the same way anymore and

31:30

of course , as you know , service is an

31:32

easy industry to be in Absolutely not . So

31:37

it was . It was quite a

31:39

having gone from such a high

31:41

to suddenly having to deal with all of this

31:43

sort of firing from all sizes really

31:45

challenging .

31:47

So it's yeah , I can

31:49

imagine it was throwing you a lot of curveballs at

31:51

the time .

31:53

Oh , it was , there was a lot of , I

31:55

mean , it was a lot of kerb balls , and I was , at

31:57

that point then , having to cover all the gaps

31:59

. So I was working ridiculously

32:02

long hours a week . It was , you

32:04

know , particularly because , even

32:06

like the bar , staff weren't turning up to their shifts

32:08

, and it was . This was a constant sort

32:10

of repeat pattern and in

32:13

the end I had to you

32:15

know , the bar , I had to close the bar

32:17

because we just weren't getting foot full . So just , and

32:20

it was the same across my town , oh no , you

32:24

had to close the bakery or the bar , just the bar . I

32:26

had . In the end , at the beginning of this year , I

32:28

had to close the whole lot because it just

32:30

wasn't financially viable anymore . And it

32:33

was . It was absolutely

32:35

a great business idea , just at the

32:37

wrong time and in the wrong place , and

32:39

it was just no longer going to work

32:41

. It was the last decision I

32:43

wanted to make because everyone had worked so hard

32:45

. But I'm like you know what

32:47

we did exactly what we

32:49

could . There's nothing more we could have done . This

32:52

is the right decision for myself

32:54

as well as the business , because I was

32:56

I was pretty much on my last legs and couldn't

32:58

really do much more than I'd already done . And

33:01

what I'm going to do now is just take everything

33:03

I've learned and turn it into the business I'm doing

33:06

now . So starting again . So I've now

33:08

got another business , so , which is great

33:10

. So I had gotten how

33:12

, how much you have to do at the start of

33:14

the business . So that's definitely been an interesting

33:16

role of the case . But I'm doing

33:19

that now because when I opened up

33:21

the cafe and bar , I

33:23

did everything by learning it from Google .

33:25

It was there wasn't and you too .

33:27

You too . Yeah , and usually

33:29

all of them , but there was no one

33:32

really that . There was lots of consultants

33:34

that would do big restaurants or food

33:36

products , but there wasn't anyone that

33:38

really did small , small

33:41

to medium sized baking businesses

33:43

or cafes and bars in local towns . And

33:46

if I'd had someone that could be meant to

33:48

me , it would have been probably a lot easier , a

33:50

lot smoother and I would have made far less mistakes

33:53

. So that's what I'm sort of doing

33:55

now is I'm teaching people how to bake because

33:57

I still love baking and I'm

34:00

always baking stuff here , so I don't

34:02

share what I'm doing and then

34:04

I'm also helping baking businesses

34:06

either start up

34:08

, grow their business , turn it from a side hustle , because it's a

34:10

really great industry . But

34:13

if you're a zone of genius , is

34:15

baking , it's not necessarily business and that's a

34:17

whole different ball game . So

34:20

that's what I'm here to help with is to

34:22

really kind of marry those two together and

34:24

show that you can do something you're passionate about . But

34:27

this is how you need to run . You know these

34:29

are the tools you need to do to help your business . So

34:32

that's where I'm kind of now . So

34:34

it's definitely been a roller coaster

34:37

.

34:37

It's been such a roller coaster and

34:40

when I really started to pick up

34:42

from listening to you is that you have

34:44

really amazing skills

34:47

that serve you really well . I almost

34:49

want to call you like the queen of flow , because

34:51

and I and maybe this is just from the conversation and

34:54

and there's obviously so much more

34:57

depth when you're in it and

34:59

and pressure , and , but

35:01

it sounds to me like you were very good

35:04

at listening to your intuition

35:06

and your gut and observing what

35:08

was going well and

35:10

what wasn't , listening to what people

35:13

wanted , figuring out how you can give that to them and

35:16

and when problems arise

35:18

, it sounds like you were really

35:20

good at finding

35:23

solutions and not letting

35:25

the problem get the best of you . Is

35:27

that fair to say ?

35:30

To some extent it was Certainly having

35:32

to work the long hours in that last year

35:35

it pushed me beyond my limits and

35:37

it was very hard to see the wood for the trees

35:39

because some of my weeks

35:41

were 80 hours and they were on your feet Because

35:44

you know , being the bakery until gosh

35:46

knows what time and then I'll be up again at five

35:48

. So it was long

35:51

hours that physically we're

35:54

demanding and you know bread

35:56

dough is not like it's like you're

35:59

moving around a lot . So , and particularly

36:01

through that particular summer , it was very

36:03

hot , so that is not

36:06

the ideal temperature for a bakery and of course

36:08

that you know there would be things that

36:10

the dishwasher would flood . It'd

36:12

be like right in the middle of service , because when

36:14

else would it do it ? Of course , of course

36:16

. You have . You have no , really

36:18

you have no time to

36:20

really consider about worrying about

36:23

it . You just have to get on and do it . But

36:25

it pushed me to my , it absolutely pushed me

36:27

to my limits and that's what I don't want other people

36:29

to do , because my business became

36:31

before me before everybody

36:34

else and it was a matter was just trying to make

36:36

sure it survived , because I felt like I owe that

36:38

to my staff and my customers

36:40

that I put so much

36:42

trust in me . And actually

36:45

, looking back on it now , I was naive to think I

36:47

could actually beat a global pandemic , having

36:50

not really got the cash

36:52

flows to be able to do it , because it

36:54

needed cash flow to survive . And

36:56

I wasn't in that position because

36:59

we'd , let you know , we balanced it

37:01

all the way through COVID because we hadn't had

37:03

enough time to really build up a supply

37:05

before it went into COVID . So

37:07

I think it was a it

37:10

was a whole mixture of emotions

37:12

and , yeah , certainly now

37:15

I've come into this new business , I've kind of realized

37:17

actually there are things I could do

37:19

a lot differently and that's where I can help , really

37:21

help people , because I've learned from what I did

37:23

and they you know

37:25

the business . I was working for

37:28

the business , not letting the business work for me , and I

37:30

should . I should have balanced that better

37:32

. It wasn't always possible , but

37:34

I should have done .

37:36

And you get to be now the person that

37:38

you wish you had by your side

37:40

, like you get to be that person for

37:42

someone else .

37:44

And .

37:44

I'm . I'm a believer that everything happens

37:46

for a reason and that life happens

37:48

for us , not to us , and what I

37:50

I hear even

37:53

is like maybe that cafe wasn't

37:55

meant to be . Maybe that wasn't what you

37:57

were meant to do . Maybe what you were

37:59

meant to do is what you're doing right now is helping

38:01

people like you have so much experience

38:04

like your . Your project

38:06

management background and your love of baking

38:08

allowed you to be so successful

38:11

in that bakery . You had really

38:13

amazing skills that could could help you

38:15

in that way . And now , because

38:17

you went to hell and back trying to run

38:19

this bakery and it was successful

38:22

and you won awards and now

38:24

you get to leave

38:26

that stress and leave those long ass hours

38:28

and leave the bean on your feet all the time . So

38:31

be comfortable in your own world and help other

38:33

people achieve what they're looking to achieve

38:35

in their bakeries , and that's just beautiful

38:38

. Do you feel this way or is ? Am

38:40

I touching in the wrong spots ?

38:43

No , no , this . This definitely works much better for me . I

38:45

know I'm not . I'm not very good at working for other

38:47

people and I'll never . I think I'll struggle going

38:49

back to work for other people . I'm not very good at being

38:51

told what to do . Yeah

38:56

, some people are just not bored that

38:58

way . So I think now

39:01

I'm kind of much more in control of what I

39:03

want to do . And yeah , I mean , it's still . It

39:05

still has a different kind of roller coaster , because

39:07

some days you're like I just , I

39:09

just can't see how this is ever going to work . Yeah

39:11

, what am I ? What am I thinking ? And then other

39:14

days you're like I've got this , it's now , you know , I can

39:16

see the results coming in , and it

39:18

lit the emotion still there

39:20

. It's just a whole different ball game .

39:22

I feel like every time that I have those

39:24

, like I want to burn it all to the ground and like I want

39:26

to give up . The universe like gives me like a

39:28

piece of hope , like I get someone

39:30

who books a session or I get

39:32

a really amazing review and I'm like , oh

39:35

, okay , yeah , okay , yes , I can

39:37

keep going , but it is . It's such

39:39

a roller coaster of highs and lows

39:41

, naomi , what

39:44

have you learned in the process

39:46

of this change ? Here ? You're

39:48

changing consistently . You're always adapting

39:50

. What have you learned through this

39:52

whole process ?

39:55

Probably the biggest thing I learned was

39:57

I need to put myself first more

39:59

and start . As

40:01

it sounds , it was something

40:04

that you know my team became . You know

40:07

, anyone in my business came before me and

40:09

it was the wrong way around to have done it , because actually

40:11

, without me , the business doesn't work

40:13

and I need to make sure that

40:15

if I need downtime , it's

40:18

what I need to get the job done , and

40:20

it's just rethinking , putting

40:23

my mindset differently . It's kind

40:25

of like when I listen to

40:27

different coaches they talk about I

40:30

used to . I'm a musician , so my background

40:32

is music and I would work in a theater

40:34

and I would

40:36

see the riders that would come in . So these are

40:38

all the they like to call them , the demands that

40:40

the artists have , but actually what they're

40:42

doing is they're setting themselves up to give them

40:44

the best performance possible . And

40:47

who are we to judge that ? Because if they

40:49

know what they want and they're clear on what they want

40:51

, however random that might be and

40:53

there was some really random ones , but

40:58

you know who but

41:00

they go for great performance on stage , that's

41:03

what you need to do your job . That's what you need and

41:05

that's the one thing I think I'm learning to be comfortable

41:07

, what I need to be able to do , what I do now

41:10

, and not something

41:12

I really did when I was

41:14

necessarily at running

41:16

that business , because sometimes

41:19

you just had to forget you

41:21

know all your needs and put the business

41:23

first , because that's how fast you had

41:25

to move . You didn't really have much of a choice , you just

41:27

had to put a pin in what you felt and get on

41:29

with the job , and it

41:32

wasn't ever going to work like that long term

41:34

, because all I end up doing is burning myself

41:36

out , which doesn't work . So that is definitely

41:38

the biggest lesson that I needed to be

41:41

realistic on what I needed , not

41:43

realistic on what other people needed . So

41:46

that was definitely my biggest learning , for sure

41:48

.

41:48

Yeah , we have to fill our own cups . If

41:50

we're givers and we're doers and

41:52

we're giving so much , you have

41:55

to be giving to yourself at the same time , or you will

41:57

learn out like rest , yeah , is

41:59

productive , we all need it . If you don't

42:01

sleep for a couple of days , just watch how crazy you

42:03

go . Like give yourself the

42:05

rest that you need . And if , and

42:07

some days especially for us women with our

42:09

cycles there are days where I can

42:11

give 150% and

42:14

there are days where the best that

42:16

I can give in this day is to watch one

42:18

YouTube class or do one

42:20

take talk video

42:23

or advertise on Instagram or like or

42:25

read a chapter of a book , like it varies

42:28

in , and it's okay , because

42:30

if that's what you need , give that to

42:32

yourself so that you can keep moving forward and keep

42:34

doing what you really want to be doing , which is running

42:36

your business . Yeah

42:38

, absolutely . What do you

42:40

hope the listeners take away from this story ? What

42:42

would be your message , especially to the entrepreneurs

42:45

or people looking to start their own bakery

42:48

? What would your message be for them ?

42:51

I think the biggest thing

42:53

is just to , like I say , to make sure

42:55

the business is going to work for you .

42:58

Work for you .

43:00

Yeah , not you for it , it's

43:02

got to work for you . Work

43:04

out what you can . You know what realistically

43:07

you can manage , because if

43:09

you're unrealistic and I am that person that

43:11

is unrealistic on how much I can achieve you

43:14

just you won't be able to deliver and

43:16

be happy with it . So just be

43:18

really honest with yourself about what

43:21

you're wanting to get out of it at the end of the day

43:23

. And actually , even if it's just

43:25

, you know , financial goals is

43:28

it personal gain goals ? What are those goals ? Just

43:30

be really open and honest with yourself

43:32

about that , because then your business will

43:34

be really successful , because you'll know where you're heading

43:36

and you'll be really realistic on what you can do to achieve

43:39

those and allow

43:41

yourself to have that downtime . Because

43:43

, again , it's a physical job . You're

43:45

on your feet for a long time and particularly

43:49

when , if you're , say , in a wedding cake industry

43:51

or something like that , you can deal with some quite

43:53

demanding customers at times . So

43:55

again , you have to allow yourself

43:58

the time to be able to deal with

44:00

all the customer queries , all of those little bits

44:02

that you sometimes forget . Packaging , Packaging

44:04

is another one that takes far longer than you imagine . I

44:06

can't imagine Just

44:08

yeah . So it's

44:11

just just be realistic with

44:13

what you can achieve and what's possible . There's

44:16

always a way to do things . There is always solutions

44:18

to do things . So if you want a bigger business than the one

44:20

you think you can do , there's always a way to work

44:22

it out . It's just matter of making

44:24

sure that it works for you .

44:26

So make sure that

44:28

the business works for you and get clear

44:31

on where you want to go . I

44:33

feel like people so underestimate the value of

44:35

goal setting . I work with goal setting

44:37

a lot in my own coaching practice . It's

44:39

so important to know exactly where

44:41

you want to go . It's not enough to be like , well , I just want to be

44:43

successful , I want to make money

44:45

. Those are so fluffy

44:47

. You're actually just going to be driving

44:50

in the abyss Like what's

44:52

the number , what's the profit you're

44:54

going for , what's the ? You know ? Be specific

44:57

as possible , naomi

44:59

, if someone .

45:00

Sorry , I was just going to say the other thing

45:02

with the goals is making sure you've then got the processes

45:05

or the systems to get you there , because

45:07

people set . It's very easy to set

45:09

a goal because you know sometimes goals

45:11

get set by like I want to achieve this

45:13

, and sometimes they are guesswork , because

45:15

you can't always work out everything

45:17

, particularly when you're new . What

45:20

you're going to do to get there is put the right process

45:22

in place of set by step Doesn't

45:24

have to be complicated . But if you've got a step

45:26

by step plan to get you there , which will inevitably

45:29

change because that's what happens as you grow then

45:32

you've got more chance of getting to those goals . So

45:34

again , this helps you be realistic of what

45:36

you can do .

45:37

Amazing Naomi . If anyone

45:39

listening is listening to this

45:41

and like wanting to learn from you , wanting

45:43

to get your recipes or want

45:46

to receive coaching from you because

45:48

they're starting their business , what is the best

45:50

way for the listeners to connect with you

45:52

?

45:53

So I've got my website where you can get

45:55

all my recipes . You can read my blog , so , bakingbossnet

45:59

, it's also got links to ways you can

46:01

work with me . I do free discovery calls

46:03

, so I like working with people on a one to

46:05

one level as well , so you can book a free discovery

46:07

call . If you're just not sure how

46:10

I can help you , or you're just not sure what

46:12

you're trying to achieve , we can talk for a few ideas

46:14

and then we can work out how I can support you

46:16

, and I'm about quick and easy wins

46:19

. Things don't have to be complicated

46:21

. I like to keep it simple because I think you were

46:23

more likely to succeed . And

46:25

yeah , I'm on the socials Instagram

46:28

, facebook and I'm also on

46:30

Pinterest as well . So I am bakingboss and

46:32

I've got the podcast . I've got the food secrets

46:35

Sorry , bakingboss kitchen secrets

46:37

podcast , where I just talk about

46:39

basically my experience of running a cafe

46:42

and some of the things I've learned along the way , some

46:44

of the stories I've got on there and things

46:47

that I think people might find useful . So

46:49

come and give me a listen , for all the links

46:51

are on my website . You can see him going . Grab me there

46:53

.

46:54

And I will have the links in the episode description

46:56

as well . So if you want to connect with Naomi , you don't

46:58

have to guess at all . You can just go find

47:01

the link that you're looking for , click and connect

47:03

with her immediately today . Thank

47:05

you so much , Naomi , for being vulnerable , sharing

47:07

your journey , allowing us to see a little

47:09

bit about what this has been like for you and your

47:11

expertise on how

47:13

to build a baking business

47:15

even through the harshest of times

47:18

. Thank you so much .

47:20

Oh , thanks for having me . I love being on the show .

47:28

If you enjoyed today's episode , please consider

47:30

liking , subscribing and letting us know your thoughts

47:32

in the comments below . It truly

47:35

means the world to me to hear from you . New

47:38

episodes will be available every Saturday

47:40

, both on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts

47:42

, and if you would like

47:44

to learn more about my work as a coach today's

47:46

guest or have a story that you would like to share

47:48

on the pivot point , check out the episode description

47:51

for more information . Now

47:58

time for the legal stuff . This podcast

48:00

is presented to you solely for educational and educational

48:03

purposes . I may be a professionally

48:06

certified coach myself , but hosting a

48:08

podcast is not coaching . This

48:10

podcast should not be used in substitution

48:13

of working with a licensed therapist , doctor

48:15

, coach or other qualified professionals . Copy

48:17

that Amazing . See

48:20

you on the next episode . Nothing but love

48:22

, yes .