0:09

Welcome to the Pivot Point stories

0:11

of courage , resilience and reinvention

0:14

. I'm your host , jessica McGahn

0:16

, coach , producer and creative , whose

0:18

mission is to normalize the human experience

0:21

, ignite the soul and move

0:23

you from feeling limited to limitless

0:25

. Please connect

0:27

us , and my hope is that within

0:29

this series , you will find at least

0:31

one story that resonates with you on

0:33

a deeply personal level , one

0:36

that speaks to your soul or your current

0:38

situation , that will motivate you

0:40

to keep moving forward , inspire

0:43

you to make bold , brave choices in your own life

0:45

and help you feel less

0:47

alone in the process . Now

0:49

I have a question for you have

0:51

you ever experienced debilitating

0:53

pain and had no one believe you ? Have

0:56

you ever heard of the invisible illness ? My

0:59

guest today is Jason Herterick , whose

1:01

life was changed forever after developing

1:03

fibromyalgia and postural

1:05

orthostatic tachycardia syndrome

1:07

, also known as POTS , following

1:10

a sports injury during his final year

1:12

at university . Over the

1:14

span of five years , he went from

1:16

being a university student athlete with

1:18

an active social life to a mostly

1:20

bedridden chronic illness patient

1:23

. Today's episode is

1:25

all about Jason's journey navigating

1:27

this life-altering diagnosis at

1:29

such a young age , what

1:32

it's like living with a chronic , invisible illness

1:34

, the lessons he has learned

1:36

and the power of joy and community

1:38

support . Today , following

1:41

a partial recovery , jason has launched his

1:43

own podcast , discomfort Zone

1:45

, and co-hosted another show , invisible

1:47

Not Broken , with the aim of helping to

1:49

promote awareness and understanding of

1:51

what it means to be chronically ill and disabled

1:54

, and to help create community . He

1:56

has served as an advisor for the Center

1:59

of Independent Living in Toronto and

2:01

D-NEX Accessible Media Lab

2:03

, a lab dedicated to training and

2:05

supporting storytellers with disabilities

2:07

to produce authentic stories on

2:10

disability . He is the former

2:12

2021 TD Fellow on Disability

2:14

and Inclusion at the Walrus and has also

2:16

reported on disability for CBC

2:18

and the local . Jason

2:20

graduated from Queen's University with a Bachelor's

2:23

of Applied Science in Engineering and Physics

2:25

. He currently works as an energy consultant

2:28

for brightly , software sustainability and

2:30

energy analytics . In his spare time

2:32

, he enjoys playing with his six nieces and nephews

2:34

, training for triathlons , exploring

2:37

new hiking trails and playing guitar

2:39

. Jason has a wildly powerful

2:41

, inspirational and educational story to share

2:44

with you today , so , without further

2:46

ado , let's dive in . Jason

2:55

hi , welcome to the PivotPoint podcast

2:57

. It is so nice to have you here with

2:59

me today .

3:00

Thanks , jess . I'm really really excited for this

3:02

conversation .

3:04

So anyone who is listening , jason is

3:06

actually a friend of mine . We met

3:08

a few years ago . We used to go to

3:10

some cottages together , but it's been quite

3:12

like you said before this turned on . We

3:15

have not connected since the global

3:17

pandemic , really .

3:18

I know , yeah , just like a minor world

3:20

event that happened a couple of years

3:22

ago that kind of disrupted

3:25

everything . Yeah , it's kind of crazy how much time

3:27

has passed .

3:28

And I think you might be one of my

3:30

inspirations in creating

3:33

my own podcast , because throughout our friendship

3:35

I remember you being at the cottage

3:37

and telling me about your podcast and

3:40

the things that you were doing . Can you

3:42

tell us a little bit about your podcast and what

3:44

it's about and what you look to achieve with it ?

3:46

Sure , yeah . So my podcast . I really started

3:48

it about six years ago and , to

3:51

be honest , I didn't really have a heck of a lot

3:53

of aim when I started it . I was like I'm

3:55

going to go and tell stories , and

3:57

it ended up evolving over time . But

4:00

it is really about what

4:02

it's like being chronically ill and disabled

4:04

. I live with fibromyalgia

4:06

and another condition called POTS

4:08

or postural orthostatic tachycardia

4:11

syndrome , which is a total mouthful

4:13

. But yeah

4:15

, it's really . I started it telling personal

4:17

stories about my life , trying to give

4:19

insights into

4:21

what it's like . What are the challenges , what are

4:23

the triumphs , how

4:25

do you adapt when you're

4:28

living with an illness and you're trying to get

4:31

out there , trying to get into dating , manage

4:33

relationships , everything like that

4:35

. And from there it kind of evolved into

4:37

interviewing and featuring

4:40

stories on other chronically

4:42

ill advocates and disability

4:44

advocates as well . So it's

4:47

been a really amazing experience .

4:49

Wow . Well , thank you for

4:51

the work that you do and the stories that you share . I knew

4:54

nothing about chronic illnesses

4:57

before I met you Like . I remember meeting

4:59

you two and being like I don't

5:01

understand , because to me you

5:03

looked healthy , you

5:05

seemed fit , you

5:07

were at the cottage having a good like it

5:10

was really hard to understand the scope

5:12

of what it was like to be

5:14

in your body . And even still I

5:16

don't think I fully understand , because I

5:18

don't know if I could ever understand how

5:22

severe your illnesses .

5:24

Totally , and I mean that's the nature of invisible

5:26

illnesses . You know you can . On the

5:28

surface you look well and a lot of the time

5:30

it's also like you're hiding your symptoms . You

5:32

don't want to be the center of attention

5:34

and everybody being like , oh no

5:36

, you're feeling really bad . So you end

5:38

up like , as a result , over time I've just kind

5:41

of adapted to like I'm just going to

5:43

hide it and I'm feeling kind of shit , but

5:45

I'm just going to put on a smile anyways

5:47

, and you know , power on through .

5:49

That's a lot of work too , like having to emotionally

5:52

and mentally manage those things when you're just trying

5:55

to enjoy yourself . Having to

5:57

suppress what's actually going on like that

5:59

sucks too , oh absolutely

6:02

yeah . Well , I'm excited to hear

6:04

your journey , because you

6:06

did not grow up with Fibromyalgia

6:08

. This was something that occurred later on

6:10

in your life , from my understanding

6:13

. So before

6:15

we get into your diagnosis , perhaps you could tell us a little

6:17

bit about who you were and what life was

6:19

like for you before

6:21

your illness .

6:23

Sure . So I developed

6:25

an illness around a university

6:28

. So in my very in my

6:30

fourth and final year at Queens University

6:32

, when I was studying engineering so

6:35

at the time I was very

6:37

much a type A personality I was . I

6:39

was like never , ever resting . You can ask my

6:41

host mates . I was , either

6:43

, you know , out partying , I was out studying

6:46

. I was at the gym . I was on

6:48

one year in university

6:50

I was on the rowing team and then I was on the triathlon

6:52

team . So I was like a very

6:54

, very active person . I

6:57

was somebody that really thrived

6:59

on it , though Like I didn't , there were

7:01

times when I felt really tired

7:03

, but at the same time I just like thrived

7:05

on being around other people , you

7:08

know , working , studying with people , like

7:10

going out and yeah

7:13

, I think I had an inability

7:15

to rest . It was like I just

7:17

I didn't even know how to do it it was

7:20

I was just always out there , being

7:22

active , studying

7:24

and everything else .

7:26

So from the sounds of it , you were very

7:28

physically healthy , happy

7:30

, a normal , normal

7:33

college university kid .

7:36

Exactly yeah .

7:38

When did things start to shift ? Was

7:40

it a sudden shift or a

7:42

very slow , slow

7:46

? What ?

7:46

am I trying to ?

7:47

say Like a slow , slow

7:49

burn , slow rise of symptoms

7:51

.

7:52

It was . So there was a

7:54

very like particular instance that

7:57

triggered everything . There was an acute injury that

7:59

I had and that later triggered

8:01

a gradual onset of

8:03

like chronic symptoms , so I can get

8:05

into that . So the day where everything

8:08

kind of changed for me was I

8:10

was on a recreational basketball

8:13

team and it was on

8:15

like a Sunday night . I

8:17

had caught a rebound and I

8:20

caught it . I twisted past the ball

8:22

to my point guard and right away

8:24

I just felt this really , really sharp stabbing

8:26

pain in my rib cage and I knew like

8:28

right away I was like something doesn't

8:30

feel right here and I tried like jogging

8:33

, I took like two steps and then I was like I can't

8:35

even like it hurts to breathe right now . It just

8:37

felt like I'd been stabbed in between the

8:39

ribs and so I like when I

8:41

lie down on the on the sidelines I couldn't

8:43

get up after the game . So I got there , was an

8:45

ambulance that kind of came and took me to the hospital

8:47

and at

8:50

the time , like the I don't know the

8:52

, the doctor in the ER was kind

8:54

of not , he didn't seem to think it was all that

8:56

serious . He was like oh yeah , it's an intercostal

8:58

muscle strain . So those are the muscles

9:00

in between your ribs that you need

9:03

, that you use for breathing . So really

9:07

, in there's a very big difference

9:09

between having one of those injuries versus

9:12

like breaking an

9:14

arm or breaking a leg or something

9:16

like that . If you break an arm , you can

9:18

put it in a sling , you can like

9:20

immobilize it . You're not using it at all . When

9:22

you injure your intercostal muscles , like

9:25

, you can't take a break from breathing . You have

9:27

to breathe 24 seven . So it

9:30

was like excruciatingly painful . I basically

9:32

spent the next like week in bed and

9:35

just trying to recover . After

9:37

that I just kind of had to push through everything

9:39

and get myself back to school . I was still experiencing

9:42

like pretty severe pain for a while but

9:45

worst of all , I had to play catch up because I

9:47

just took a week off of school . I was also working

9:49

two jobs as like a TA

9:52

and as a as a marker for another

9:54

course . It was also like in my fourth

9:56

year of university I was trying to find a job

9:58

for when I graduated . So

10:00

you know , at the time I was going to Toronto

10:02

, I was going up to Calgary like for job interviews

10:05

and everything , and it

10:07

was like I went from being in bed , recovering

10:10

, unable to do anything to

10:12

all right , like let's go , let's push

10:15

. You know working until 4am

10:17

to try and get caught up in all my classes . And

10:20

what I what I believe

10:22

caused my illness and what other doctors

10:24

have you know , affirmed as well

10:27

is that it was a combination

10:29

of the physical injury and severe

10:31

burnout that ended

10:33

up causing a lot of my symptoms . So

10:35

the way that it works , it's like pain

10:38

is this alarm going off

10:40

in your brain and it's trying to protect

10:42

your body from causing

10:45

further tissue damage by saying

10:47

, hey , this cause , you know

10:49

, this is not good , stop doing

10:51

this . And I was very

10:53

much like , well , no , I kind of have to . I got

10:55

to graduate , I got to do all these things , so

10:57

I pushed through it . As

10:59

a result , your stress level gets higher . That

11:02

makes your pain even worse , and then , when

11:04

you're in a lot of pain , that just makes you even more stressed

11:06

. So , months and

11:08

months later , doctors

11:10

believe that my injury actually

11:13

healed , but my brain

11:15

had evolved to experience

11:18

heightened levels of pain even

11:21

after the injury was gone . Just it's

11:23

, though , it's um . Have you ever heard of neuroplasticity

11:26

before ?

11:27

Yes , I have yeah .

11:29

Yeah . So it's basically like the brain's

11:31

ability to adapt and to respond

11:33

, and in my case , my

11:36

brain was like oh , I'm trying to help you here . I'm

11:38

going to like send this stronger pain signal

11:40

. It was trying to protect me , but at the same

11:42

time , it was really ended up causing me harm

11:44

and a lot . Basically

11:46

, that entire series of events ended

11:49

up causing my chronic illness .

11:52

Wow , I am shocked

11:55

. I had no way

11:57

I thought fibromyalgia and chronic

12:00

illness was for some reason

12:02

in my mind . It was something

12:04

that you were like born with , that just like comes

12:06

out later in life . Like I don't know why I thought

12:08

that like , but I thought it was just

12:10

something that's like genetic that will

12:12

come out later . I didn't . I had no idea

12:14

that that was caused

12:16

from how you explained it .

12:20

That's I'm lying down right now it can

12:22

. So I mean , like as you described it

12:24

, a lot of chronic illnesses can be

12:26

genetic and you know they're like you get . You

12:28

have it at birth . There's

12:30

lots of genetic illnesses and stuff like that and

12:33

I like there's been research done that shows like

12:36

there is some genetic component of fibromyalgia

12:38

as well .

12:39

Okay , so I'm not totally wrong

12:41

, no , no , yeah , you're not Just different than what

12:43

your face is . Got it okay .

12:45

Yeah , and like it can be caused in many different

12:48

ways . Like some people get a viral infection

12:50

and then they end up with fibromyalgia

12:52

. They like just don't fully recover afterwards

12:55

. Sometimes it can

12:57

be by , you know , people experience some

13:00

emotionally traumatic event and they

13:02

develop fibromyalgia afterwards . So

13:04

there can be like a combination of many factors

13:06

.

13:07

What's the definition of fibromyalgia

13:10

?

13:11

Yeah , that's a good question . I mean in

13:13

terms of , like medical definition

13:15

I'm certainly no expert on

13:17

anything like that . My way

13:19

of describing it is basically

13:22

like your brain

13:24

, there's an alarm system going off

13:26

in your brain . It basically it's

13:28

a malfunctioning alarm alarm system

13:30

. So pain is an alarm system

13:32

. It's trying to protect you . You

13:35

know , if you stub your toe really badly

13:38

, you're going to get a pain response

13:40

that's going to say hey , don't do that again , because

13:42

that's that's going to injure my toe . Whereas

13:46

if somebody with fibromyalgia , they're

13:48

having that alarm system go off even

13:50

when they're not stubbing their toe or when they're

13:52

not doing something painful . It's

13:54

just their brain is adapted in such a way

13:56

where , yeah

13:59

, the pain system is going off all the

14:01

time .

14:02

I've got two questions . I've got two big questions

14:04

. The first one is so , knowing that

14:06

it's this alarm system in your head

14:08

that is causing physical

14:10

pain in the body as a way to protect

14:12

you from hurting yourself

14:15

further because yours

14:17

stemmed from those intercostal muscles

14:19

Is that where you experience

14:22

a lot of your pain , or

14:24

do you experience it differently

14:27

now ?

14:28

Yeah , so at the beginning I

14:30

did experience it more severely in

14:32

my rib cage . Over time it

14:34

spread . So in my final year of university

14:37

, for the first couple

14:39

months I'd really severe

14:41

, sharp stabbing pain in my rib cage

14:43

. That was probably when there was still an acute

14:46

injury going on there . But even

14:48

after that healed , it ended

14:50

up spreading to the other side . I had the

14:52

exact same pain in my left rib

14:54

cage . It went up and down my back , it

14:56

went down to my legs , up to my head , basically

14:59

body wide . So like even nowadays like

15:01

now it's more of I just

15:03

have this deep , dull ache all

15:06

over my body from head to toe . It's

15:08

less severe now than it was in my

15:10

worst days , but I

15:12

still feel it everywhere .

15:14

Yeah , well , that kind of goes into . My next question

15:16

is is there

15:18

a way to retrain your brain

15:21

for safety

15:23

? Is there a way to heal from

15:25

this completely ? Is there a way through any

15:28

kind of therapies physical or mental therapies

15:30

to correct this ?

15:33

Yeah , yeah , that's

15:36

a good question . There

15:38

certainly are . I mean , there's no

15:40

. So there's no cure to fibromyalgia

15:43

. There's no magic pill Like you

15:45

take this and you're better , and

15:47

there's also no one treatment

15:49

plan that will say cure every

15:52

single patient or even like any

15:54

individual patient . Like I don't

15:56

know if I'll ever be fully cured from fibromyalgia

15:59

. I've improved significantly . I'd

16:01

say I've had like a 70 to 80%

16:03

recovery to where I was at my very

16:05

worst , but it's possible

16:07

that I'll have it for the rest of my life . But

16:10

there are like things like I do a

16:12

lot of mindfulness , I do meditation

16:14

, spending time in nature , just

16:16

things that really like relax your brain

16:18

, like bring it to a sense of peace

16:21

and safety . And then

16:23

also like reintegrating exercises

16:25

, like very slowly . Like you know

16:28

, exercise it's controversial in

16:30

like the fibromyalgia community . For some

16:32

people it seems to work well , for others

16:34

it seems to make their symptoms way

16:36

worse and they'll have like a very big crash

16:38

after they try exercising . So

16:41

I can really only fully speak on

16:43

my own experience . But like

16:45

doing yoga , tai Chi

16:47

, lots of water therapy

16:49

. For like a long time I was doing that

16:52

and since then I've like added

16:54

in a lot more things like swimming

16:57

, biking , running . I did a triathlon

17:00

this past summer so I got like fullback

17:02

kind of into exercise mode like

17:05

weightlifting , rock climbing , like all that stuff

17:07

, kayaking that's awesome

17:09

yeah . It's been really nice to

17:11

kind of rediscover that I got completely

17:14

away from that when I was like really , really

17:16

sick , where like there's no

17:18

kind of movement , felt safe . Now it's been

17:20

nice to re-like experience

17:23

all that .

17:24

Yeah , I would love to hear

17:26

because clearly this was the pivotal moment you

17:28

getting this diagnosis , this injury , more

17:31

specifically , that moment of injury and

17:33

this diagnosis . Do

17:35

you remember the

17:39

day they told you it was fibromyalgia

17:42

?

17:43

I do . Yeah , I would

17:45

say it was in around

17:47

December 2013 . So

17:50

then I was still at that point

17:52

. I like I was getting to the point

17:55

where I was working reduced hours at work . I

17:57

was at an engineering firm and

17:59

I was getting like weaker and sicker

18:01

and in more pain by the month and

18:04

just way less energy , and

18:07

I found it even like very hard

18:09

to concentrate . I found it hard to sleep at

18:11

night . My whole body just

18:13

felt like totally dysregulated from

18:15

the pain and everything I was experiencing . I

18:18

was still holding out hope . At that point I was like maybe

18:21

this is still like some kind of muscle tear

18:23

that just didn't heal properly and

18:25

it's like or some kind of like nerve injury

18:28

that's easy , like easily

18:30

fixable . And

18:32

I remember a doctor came in and said , like

18:34

you've got fibromyalgia or we think

18:36

you've got fibromyalgia , and

18:38

at the time it felt like a life sentence , just

18:42

fibromyalgia . Patients don't have

18:44

significant recoveries . And

18:47

you know I had had a doctor

18:49

who previously told me like I don't think you're

18:51

ever gonna like get better from this , which

18:54

really like heart crushing thing

18:56

to hear where it's like okay , yeah

18:58

, give up all hope of like having a meaningful

19:01

and enjoyable life , like that was

19:03

kind of the way I you

19:05

know that was how I received

19:08

the message back then and

19:10

it , yeah , it took me

19:12

. It took me quite a long time

19:14

, you know . Before I don't

19:16

know , I developed like some kind of hope again , but

19:18

for because for years after

19:20

that too , like I was at the very beginning

19:23

of like a decline that was like

19:25

maybe two years into my chronic

19:27

illness experience , but I like

19:29

continued to get worse basically for the next

19:31

three to four years until

19:33

like 2017 .

19:35

That was kind of when my symptoms hit their peak and

19:37

and yeah , I

19:39

can't even imagine how

19:41

difficult this moment must have

19:43

been to navigate , because not only were you a

19:45

very active person

19:48

before all this , but you're also like

19:50

in your twenties and a moment

19:52

in life where everyone is like stepping

19:55

out on their own and they're going

19:57

for what they want and they're in school

19:59

and they're going for jobs and you

20:01

have this setback that you

20:04

have to move back home correct Like you have to go

20:06

home to care . You're in pain all

20:08

the time . You can no longer be active

20:10

. I'm sure your social life suffered dramatically

20:13

from this Like . At

20:15

such a pivotal moment in any person's

20:17

life , really for you to be experiencing

20:20

this Like that's that would be really

20:22

hard . Do you remember the mental

20:24

health struggles that you experienced during

20:26

this time ?

20:28

Yeah , the mental health struggles were quite

20:30

severe , like as you were talking about , there's

20:32

this loss of everything , being like a 23

20:35

year old and you know I had ambitions

20:37

of like traveling the world . You

20:39

know advancing in my career , starting

20:42

a family , like just going

20:44

out and meeting new people and you

20:47

know , doing whatever activities that brought

20:49

me joy , like going on doing triathlons

20:51

, joining sports teams and all this

20:54

and then to suddenly like , not only

20:56

am I unable to do those things , but I'm

20:58

unable to even like work and you know

21:00

provide for myself . And

21:03

you know becoming over over

21:05

years , over the span of like multiple

21:07

years , I became more and more like

21:09

dependent on my parents . You

21:12

know cooking for me , cleaning for me , you

21:15

know , for so I can . Yeah , I'll get

21:17

into like the mental health struggles of it . Around

21:20

that time I was internalizing

21:23

a lot of it . I really didn't know

21:25

how to communicate to

21:27

my loved ones about , you know

21:29

the mental health struggles associated

21:31

with it . I think I fell into

21:33

, I don't know . There's , I think , a lot

21:36

of young men especially to . There's this kind

21:38

of like you want to appear tough , stoic

21:40

, independent , strong

21:43

. So there's , I

21:45

know , around that age for me

21:47

, I wasn't really used to embracing

21:51

vulnerability at all . I

21:53

didn't introduce a lot of that into my experiences

21:55

. So people would ask me , like how I'm doing

21:58

, and my responses would usually be

22:00

like , oh yeah , like you know , I'm having body

22:02

pain but like , oh , it's going to be getting better , like

22:04

soon , and I'm on the upswing . It

22:06

was really like minimizing it , trying to like

22:08

I don't know , brush it aside and

22:11

not really not

22:13

really talk about it , which

22:15

it , like it just kind of made

22:17

it more isolating , feeling like I couldn't

22:19

open up to other people about it . So

22:22

you end up internalizing so much of

22:24

it and it just

22:26

kind of breaks you down over time .

22:30

It must feel like some sort of jail

22:32

, like a trapped in your body

22:34

type , because your mind is working

22:37

Like you're able to think and feel

22:39

these emotions , but what I'm hearing is like

22:41

it was really hard for you to communicate them

22:43

, while also simultaneously not being

22:45

able to do all the things that you want to do .

22:48

Yeah , yeah , absolutely

22:50

. And it was like

22:52

it was a couple years before

22:55

. Basically , things got really really

22:57

bad . So I went from , like

22:59

you know , I was able to still go out on some

23:01

walks , maybe for an hour , and

23:03

then I'd have to rest for a while . You

23:06

know , I do like some form of exercise , but

23:08

very minimal . Over the next few years , I

23:10

fell into a downward spiral to

23:12

the point where I couldn't walk up and

23:14

down the stairs . I spent

23:17

like 23 hours a day

23:19

in bed , like I'd get up every

23:21

like 15 to 20 minutes

23:23

for like just to walk to the end of the hall and back

23:25

, but

23:28

I lost the ability to do anything . I wasn't even

23:30

like feeding myself . My parents would be spoon

23:32

feeding me every meal . So

23:35

just all of that . It got to the point I

23:37

believe it was in like 2016 when

23:40

I just started reaching out to friends and

23:42

just being like hey guys , like this

23:44

is like really really bad and I'm

23:46

in a really tough place right now and

23:49

I just could like use all the support

23:51

that I could get . And

23:54

from there , like people responded

23:56

way better than I could have

23:58

possibly imagined , like that

24:00

was really a moment

24:02

where a lot shifted , like a lot

24:04

of people just rallied and I

24:07

had like never really went , even like two days

24:09

, without a visitor coming to spend like several

24:11

hours sitting by my bedside and hanging

24:14

out with me , and it made

24:16

all the difference in the world . It just kind of I don't

24:19

know . For me there was a realization there

24:21

like resilience it

24:24

really takes a village . There's that like

24:26

phrase it takes a village to like raise a

24:28

kid . It takes a village when it comes to a chronically

24:30

ill person like

24:33

you need support . You can't do it on your own and you're

24:35

way stronger when you have support from

24:37

other people .

24:38

Yeah , and good for you for reaching out and

24:40

being like . I gotta be honest about

24:42

this , because it sounds

24:44

like your community really loves you from

24:47

the sounds of it and how people

24:49

rallied and showed up but they needed

24:51

almost like that permission from you or to hear it from

24:53

you . That A it was that bad . Or a

24:56

lot of the times I , like it , can feel

24:58

like , oh , I don't want to bug

25:01

that person , to like not knowing whether or

25:03

not they even want to see you , like as

25:05

the friends , like do I go over

25:07

? Or like do they want to be alone right

25:10

now ? Like those questions , it

25:13

seems like you open the floodgates by

25:15

by reaching out , and I'm so glad that you did

25:17

. Did you ever reach out to

25:19

a therapist ? Or or

25:22

were you working with a physical therapist

25:24

, mental therapist , to

25:26

help progress in your healing

25:28

?

25:29

Yeah , there were I . There were definitely

25:31

times when I saw therapists

25:33

over the years I'm

25:36

trying to remember exactly when that

25:38

would have been , but there

25:40

were in , like I think around 2016

25:42

, around 2017 . I was seeing one

25:45

as well , kind of like on an ongoing basis

25:47

every couple months , and

25:52

I remember like I , they

25:54

, like one of my therapists just really recognized

25:57

. She was like you know , you're really hard on yourself and

25:59

I think , like I don't know , through that like

26:01

very type A personality , like

26:03

very driven student athlete and everything

26:06

. I just this tendency to like

26:08

put extra pressure

26:10

on myself , to and like , if I failed

26:12

, then to be like , okay , that's on me , I'm

26:14

just not trying hard enough . But

26:17

that also , translated to

26:19

when you become chronically

26:21

ill , like that kind of mindset is

26:23

no longer helpful . It's

26:25

like then I was feeling like

26:28

, oh , I'm at fault here , like I must be

26:30

doing something wrong and that's why I'm

26:32

sick , rather than like this is just

26:34

a really complex illness that is , like you

26:36

know , very , very , very hard to manage

26:38

and treat . So , yeah , therapists were

26:41

definitely really helpful , at least like helping

26:43

me recognize my own thought patterns

26:45

, like helping giving me suggestions

26:48

on ways to manage my own mental

26:50

health . Yeah

26:52

, just really being in here as well , because

26:54

I think everybody needs that sometimes .

26:58

What is the belief score ? Mm

27:00

. So yeah that was .

27:03

This was a story that goes

27:05

back to 2018 . I was attending

27:09

a film screening for

27:11

a chronic pain documentary called

27:14

pain warriors , which you can watch on Amazon

27:16

Prime . It's a really great documentary by

27:19

a friend of mine , tina Petrova

27:21

, who's a Toronto filmmaker . But

27:23

there there's a

27:25

film screening in downtown Toronto

27:28

and I went down to that and

27:30

it was entirely for

27:32

chronic pain patients to

27:35

go and like , give feedback , to watch

27:37

it , just to like I don't know

27:39

. It brought everybody in the chronic pain

27:41

community together . So I

27:44

went down there and at that

27:46

time I had hardly connected with

27:48

others in the chronic pain

27:50

community , at least like in person . I had

27:52

some chronic pain friends online , but

27:54

I still felt quite

27:56

isolated and I didn't feel that sense of

27:59

community . I was sitting

28:01

at the bar before the film screening

28:03

started and some guy just turns to me

28:06

and you know , we , we like , we're

28:08

chatting , and he's like I , you know , we both

28:10

talked about how we both had chronic pain and

28:12

he was like so what's your belief score ? And

28:14

I was like what , what's a belief score

28:16

? He's like Well , your friends , your

28:19

family , your doctors , like which ones

28:21

believe you ? And I

28:23

was like Well , right

28:26

now , technically all of them believe me

28:28

, so I guess my score is

28:30

three . And he was just like , oh

28:32

my God , you've got a hat trick . Like

28:34

that's incredible . He was like blown

28:37

away that I had a score of three out of three . For

28:39

him his score was zero . Like many

28:42

of his friends didn't believe that his pain was real

28:44

. His family , his

28:47

doctors , like he had lost a

28:49

lot of people in his life to that . And

28:51

it's such a like , it's such a painful thing

28:54

when you're going through something in

28:56

life that's incredibly , incredibly

28:58

hard and these people who you would

29:00

hope would be there to support you

29:02

are just thinking

29:05

that you're making it all up . Like fabricating

29:07

the entire thing is some kind of like ploy

29:09

to get attention or for whatever

29:11

reason . He was in his fifties and

29:14

you know he had chronic pain for like 30

29:16

years , so he had experienced this for

29:18

a really long time . And I

29:20

just think this idea that the guy made

29:22

up something

29:25

called the belief score like he came

29:27

up with that concept Clearly

29:29

, clearly , like it speaks to I

29:31

don't know the volume of like

29:33

and like how common it is to be disbelieved

29:35

as a chronically ill patient .

29:38

Yeah , I mean what you called it earlier . It's the invisible

29:40

illness and , like I said , like I

29:42

, when I met you , I was like I don't understand

29:45

. Like he's he's held , like I

29:47

believed you , but I couldn't understand it

29:49

, Like I couldn't , I

29:51

couldn't understand it , but so I I

29:54

. It hurts to think that so

29:56

many people go through

29:58

life not being believed for

30:01

for such a serious

30:03

, painful struggle , especially

30:05

by his doctor , like his doctor , not even

30:07

his doctor believed him .

30:09

So that's , that's really , really common . Yeah , doctors

30:11

, you know there's

30:13

a lot of people out there who I've who I've spoken

30:16

with , who have said , like their doctors

30:18

don't believe them . You

30:20

know people can be basically

30:22

blamed , saying , oh , you're just seeking like

30:25

drugs , you're seeking opioids

30:27

to like so that you can go and get

30:29

high . There's like all sorts of

30:31

you know , there's

30:34

all sorts of reasons why I don't know

30:36

people will disbelieve other people . Or

30:38

just simply looking like . If

30:40

you looked at him again , he didn't look like he

30:42

had a painful he wasn't grimacing

30:44

. He wasn't , you

30:47

know , like really hunched over , like grabbing

30:49

himself or anything . It's . Chronic

30:51

pain looks very different from acute

30:53

pain . It's like you got an

30:55

injury . You stub your toe like you know

30:57

you're going to visibly show it Chronic

31:00

pain . It's like when you've been living with something

31:02

like that for years . It's like it

31:05

becomes your normal . So

31:07

you like you adapt to it . Like you , I

31:09

don't know . Yeah , you're not going to show the same

31:11

visible signs as if you

31:14

know you had an acute injury .

31:16

It makes so much sense . It becomes

31:18

your baseline , it becomes something

31:21

that you are used to . I'm the

31:23

best . Please forgive me

31:25

for this comparison , but the best thing I can compare it to is

31:27

like period cramps , like be

31:29

as women , like I specifically

31:31

go through period cramps every

31:33

month . So like how I

31:35

manage that pain and how I navigate

31:38

that pain is better than when I was a teenager

31:40

. I'm still experiencing similar symptoms

31:42

, but how I carry myself throughout them is different

31:44

. So I that's my best comparison

31:47

to understanding- I think

31:49

that's a great analogy .

31:50

I mean , I've never experienced period cramps .

31:54

We think we're aligned here .

31:55

Yeah , I think so so is

31:57

there no test .

31:58

There's nothing that a doctor like . There's nothing

32:00

that's going to show up on an MRI

32:03

or a body scan that is going to

32:06

show fibromyalgia

32:09

.

32:10

No , it's like for a while it was

32:12

diagnosis by exclusion , meaning

32:14

that if you tested negative

32:17

for rheumatoid arthritis , like neuropathy

32:19

, all these different chronic illnesses

32:22

that have chronic pain associated with them

32:24

, then basically if you rule

32:26

everything out , then you would get the diagnosis

32:28

of fibromyalgia . Now it

32:31

has kind of shifted a little bit

32:33

where it's now based , like if

32:35

you have all those symptoms of

32:37

fibromyalgia , then you can get the diagnosis

32:39

, because it often like coexists

32:42

with other comorbidities . You

32:45

know , if you've got other illnesses , you're very likely

32:47

like fibromyalgia and POTS , the

32:49

two illnesses that I have those go

32:51

often go hand in hand . So

32:54

, yeah , there's often like now I think there's

32:56

. I'm not like super

32:58

up to date with all the research on this , but last time

33:00

I checked it was like if you

33:02

have what are called trigger points , which

33:05

are like painful points that are at like very

33:07

specific points across your body , then

33:10

you can get diagnosed with it so there

33:12

can be like a kind of physical exam

33:14

for that . But there's no as of right now

33:16

. There's no . Like you

33:19

know , if you get this MRI then

33:22

and it shows something

33:24

that you're going to get the diagnosis like medicine

33:27

just hasn't advanced to that point

33:29

right now .

33:31

What is POTS ?

33:33

POTS is Postural Orthostatic

33:36

Tachycardia Syndrome

33:38

and what it basically means . When

33:40

I go from sitting

33:42

to standing or lying down

33:45

to standing , my heart rate

33:47

will jump up by about 40

33:49

beats per minute . So

33:52

it's like you know , when you stand up really , really quickly

33:54

and you get that head rush for a second . I

33:56

hate that feeling yeah that's

33:58

happens to me all the time , so

34:00

when my POTS was really , really

34:02

bad , I would get that feeling , but it would last for

34:05

like five to 10 minutes , like

34:07

just straight until I like you just see

34:09

stars and it would be black and you just

34:11

be like . Yeah , I'd be like

34:13

holding onto the walls . They were like a few times

34:15

where I fainted and

34:17

basically like my

34:19

under . So my understanding of POTS again , I'm no

34:21

like medical practitioner or

34:24

expert on it , but my understanding

34:26

is basically , when you've got it comes

34:29

down to that whole like central nervous system

34:32

dysregulation . When you're in pain

34:34

, a lot

34:36

of your secondary body systems

34:38

and like the way that your brain controls

34:41

them gets dysregulated . So you can think

34:43

about it . If we go back to

34:45

you know , back when we were

34:47

hunter-gatherers , like living

34:49

out in the woods and there was a bear

34:51

that was chasing you , you would have

34:54

adrenaline flowing through your

34:56

body , there would be the stress response

34:58

and it would basically

35:00

be like all your muscles you

35:02

want to be able to run as fast as you can , like

35:04

to be able to fight if you need to , to do

35:06

whatever , all those secondary systems

35:08

in your body , like digestion

35:11

, sleep , a whole

35:14

bunch of like cognitive being able to like think

35:16

very clearly all those are going

35:18

to go out the window because they're not

35:20

as necessary for survival

35:23

as being able to run as

35:25

fast as you can in that moment . The

35:27

same sort of concept applies to

35:29

fibromyalgia patients as well . Like

35:32

you know , we have pain that's

35:34

constantly going off . There's an alarm bell

35:37

in our brain that's being like there's an issue

35:39

here like go and deal with it , except

35:41

you can't because it's fibromyalgia

35:43

and it's a chronic illness . That's kind of there

35:46

24 seven . So

35:48

there with it comes all sorts

35:50

of like other types of dysregulation with

35:52

sleep , with memory , with

35:55

man , like trying to regulate emotions

35:57

, with fatigue , everything

36:00

like that digestion . And one of

36:02

it is like my brain , basically

36:05

the brain signal that

36:07

goes from my brain down to my heart . That's kind

36:09

of telling it like how do you regulate your

36:11

heart rate to get blood to all the different

36:14

parts of your body and to get oxygen to

36:16

all the different parts of your body ? Like it

36:19

just becomes a little bit dysregulated

36:21

. So when I go from sitting up to

36:23

standing up or lying down to standing up , my

36:26

heart just kind of doesn't know

36:28

exactly how to respond .

36:30

Great . So it basically activates your heart

36:32

to pump even faster because it thinks that

36:34

you're under duress . You're

36:36

not , which causes that so

36:39

do . They commonly come together because

36:41

they're both kind of like these the

36:43

signals in your brain for

36:46

stress or danger are kind of

36:48

tangled or fried . I

36:51

don't know what the medical term would be , but

36:54

like that they're misfiring

36:56

.

36:56

Yeah , exactly , that's totally

36:58

like a lot of these kind of misfiring

37:01

types of illnesses kind of go hand

37:03

in hand .

37:05

So we've learned

37:08

a lot about what this

37:10

is and how hard it was for

37:12

you to go through navigating

37:14

this at such an early age , when

37:17

things start to feel

37:19

like they were getting better for you

37:21

.

37:23

Midway through 2017 , that's

37:25

when things really started to shift for me

37:27

. I got into an inpatient

37:30

program at Toronto Rehab in Toronto

37:32

and their medical team was just incredible

37:35

. For

37:37

the longest time , navigating the medical system

37:40

was just an absolute nightmare . You're

37:42

like said , from specialist to specialist

37:44

, you often have to wait four or five

37:46

months to get in to see a doctor for 15

37:49

minutes , only for them to say I

37:51

don't really know what the answer is . You go back

37:53

to your family doctor and they're like , okay

37:55

, well , we tried the stomach doctor , we're going

37:57

to try the nerve doctor , whatever

38:00

the endocrine specialist . Really

38:04

, I just felt lost throughout that

38:07

entire period until I got into

38:09

Toronto Rehab and they just had

38:11

this approach . First off , they made

38:13

a big change to my medication right

38:15

away , which had a really really significant

38:17

impact . I started

38:20

medication I was

38:22

on had helped me sleep , but it caused all sorts of

38:24

other side effects that I didn't realize

38:26

it was causing . I thought it was just my illness that

38:28

was causing those . It becomes

38:30

really complicated , so

38:32

they helped me find that change . It

38:37

really was the first time I had met a doctor

38:39

who was like hey , I can help you and

38:41

we're going to find a way to get this better . I know this

38:43

is really hard . They had the best bedside

38:45

manner that you can possibly have

38:47

and it's so underrated .

38:52

I just want to stop right now , because I cannot

38:54

even believe . I cannot , no , I

38:57

cannot even imagine the profound relief

38:59

that you must have experienced the moment someone said

39:01

I can help you , I know what this is

39:03

, and I can help you After all of

39:05

that that you had to endure from

39:08

the onset to the navigating

39:10

the medical system like . Do you remember

39:12

how that felt to hear that

39:14

?

39:15

So there was part of my brain which was like , well

39:17

, I've got like the odd person who was like

39:20

, oh , I can help , you Just pay me $500

39:22

and I will , like you know , find you a cure

39:24

. And you know , you end up . I

39:26

went through all sorts of rabbit holes , you

39:28

know , with trying to find ways of healing before

39:31

, and some of them went nowhere . But they also

39:33

had a confidence in themselves . It

39:35

was an integrated team where , you

39:37

know , they had a chiropractor what's

39:41

the name ? Physiatrist , like a nerve doctor

39:44

, neuralal

39:47

sorry , my brain fog is kicking in right now

39:49

, so finding these words is a little bit harder

39:51

Neurologist , then

39:53

, like psychiatrist as well , and

39:57

basically they were like all working together , an

39:59

occupational therapist , so

40:01

they were able to really help me in all facets of

40:03

my life and working together as a team

40:05

, to be like , how do we problem solve here

40:07

? How do we get you to like

40:10

set achievable goals and basically

40:12

set a road path for getting you

40:15

to a better place ? And

40:18

yeah and so , yeah , there was a really profound relief

40:20

with all of that .

40:23

What ended up really helping you , what has

40:25

been some key things that

40:27

have worked to shifting you into the place

40:29

that you are in now .

40:33

So lots of mindfulness

40:35

, lots of active decision

40:37

making yeah

40:40

, what other things ? Basically , yeah

40:42

, when I'm trying to set goals , setting

40:46

them out in tiny increments , writing

40:49

about it a lot . So I'll

40:52

just give you one example . One

40:55

thing was okay . So years ago

40:57

this would have been in like 2019

41:00

. I was going through a setback . There's

41:03

oftentimes , when you've got chronic pain , where

41:06

you will try and

41:08

like exercise and then your pain

41:10

will get worse and then your fatigue

41:12

will get worse and then you try an exercise

41:15

to get out of it . But for me , I was like

41:17

stuck in this path where every time I exercised

41:20

, I crashed afterwards and I felt like shit

41:22

and I felt like demotivated . I

41:24

was like nothing is working right now . And

41:26

my occupational therapist really they helped

41:28

put me in charge of

41:31

my own treatment plan and

41:34

he was like okay , well , tell me , what

41:36

are you doing when you're going and exercising every

41:38

day ? I was like , oh , I'm like going , I'm walking

41:40

in a pool , I go back and forth , I like

41:42

go side to side , I'm using my

41:44

hands and everything . And he was like okay , what

41:47

is your mindset when you're doing that ? And

41:49

I was like okay , well , often

41:51

I'll be like , you know , just counting

41:53

reps and then I'll like look at the clock , see

41:55

how much time is left in my workout , and

41:58

you know , then I'll like keep doing it

42:00

. Look up at the clock and he was like okay

42:02

, that sounds like you're not super present during

42:05

this period . It sounds like you're looking

42:08

for it to be done . And he was like what

42:10

how can you adjust this activity

42:12

so that you are not

42:15

waiting for the activity to be done and

42:17

you're not constantly watching the clock

42:19

around that time ? I was always exercising

42:21

for like 20 minutes , 25

42:23

minutes , and I'd feel a massive crash afterwards

42:26

. The next time I went in the pool , I

42:29

went with my nephew , who

42:31

is two years old at the time , and

42:34

it was like it's the cutest thing , like

42:36

seeing a two year old . He's in a life jacket , he's

42:38

just having the time of his life . It's

42:41

like they're splashing and they're just laughing

42:43

constantly . And

42:45

I spent the entire time

42:47

. I was like chasing him around , making noises

42:49

, pretending I was like a sea monster going

42:52

after him and he would have to like swim

42:54

away to get free . And at

42:56

the end of the time I looked up and it had been 50

42:58

minutes and I had been working hard

43:01

and I didn't feel fully

43:03

depleted of energy and

43:05

that in itself , kind of the lesson I took

43:07

away from that and what I talked with them afterwards

43:10

is like when you've got connection

43:12

while you're , and you're feeling purpose , like

43:14

connected to others , when you're doing this sort of thing

43:17

keeps you grounded in the moment

43:19

, that in itself will energize you

43:21

and that

43:23

in itself can make such a massive difference

43:25

. So you're not just like living

43:28

to rehab so that you can

43:30

get better , like you're actually living . You

43:32

can still have a meaningful life .

43:35

Yeah , wow , that is so

43:38

profound that

43:40

story , honestly . It's

43:42

just a beautiful depiction of how

43:45

our connection to joy and purpose

43:47

can be this beautiful fuel

43:49

and fire that lights us up in

43:51

this world , that keeps us moving . In

43:53

your case , it kept you healthy

43:56

in that way . It helped

43:58

you be grounded in that

44:00

moment . Jason

44:02

, what does your life look like today ? How

44:05

are you feeling and what are you

44:07

achieving today ?

44:10

Yeah , so , yeah , I'll start

44:12

with what I'm doing . So nowadays

44:14

I'm working in engineering . About

44:17

a year ago , I decided to make the transition

44:19

from working in journalism

44:21

and podcasting . I went

44:24

back to work in engineering at

44:26

the same firm that I worked at after

44:28

I graduated university . So

44:31

just a nine-year sabbatical from engineering . Yeah

44:34

, it's been so wonderful , like there's so many of the same

44:36

faces that are still at the company from nine

44:38

years ago . It's been a lot of fun and

44:40

, again , it's all related to sustainability

44:42

, which is something I'm really passionate

44:44

about as well . So

44:47

, yeah , professionally , that's what I'm doing nowadays

44:49

. Physically , I'm doing a lot

44:51

better . I still have some symptoms

44:53

that come up on a daily basis

44:56

. I still have all of them , like pain , fatigue

44:58

, dizziness , brain fog , but

45:02

over time it's first off . My symptoms

45:04

have gotten way better and I've developed

45:06

a lot better strategies on how

45:09

to manage the symptoms when

45:11

they do pop up and when they are really

45:13

, really bad . So that's been

45:15

really helpful . And I've

45:17

still yeah , I've just been able to add

45:19

a lot of hobbies . I'm doing lots

45:21

of stuff outdoors . I did a triathlon

45:24

this past summer , which was really great

45:26

. I never thought I was going to ever get back

45:28

into that , so that was really , really wonderful

45:31

. I'm doing lots of cottage

45:33

trips , hiking trips , all sorts

45:35

of stuff like that , getting out

45:37

traveling again . And

45:40

then recently I've gotten back

45:42

into some volunteer opportunities

45:45

. So one of them is

45:48

Trailblazers Cycling Club

45:50

. So it's a tandem

45:53

cycling club that pairs

45:55

a sighted cyclist

45:57

with a blind or visually

46:00

impaired cyclist , so the sighted

46:02

cyclist will be at the very front of the bike

46:04

and then you'll have a blind or

46:06

visually impaired cyclist

46:08

at the very back . It's

46:11

been really , really cool and it's really been

46:13

an amazing opportunity . Like

46:15

I just recently joined that

46:17

, so I've really only just been on one

46:20

ride , but it was

46:22

so interesting and it was such

46:24

an exercise in mindfulness because there's

46:26

so much communication between the

46:28

person at the front of the bike and the person at the

46:30

back . So , yeah

46:33

, that's one of the volunteer opportunities

46:35

. And then , as well , I

46:37

recently joined the board of directors

46:39

for the Center for Independent Living in Toronto

46:41

. They are

46:43

a community-based resource organization

46:46

run by

46:48

people with disabilities for people with disabilities

46:51

, so they develop and implement

46:53

services , programs and activities

46:56

that empower individuals

46:58

with disabilities to basically

47:00

take control of their own lives . So

47:02

there's a few different programs

47:04

that I can just speak to very

47:07

, very very quickly . But one of them

47:09

being the direct funding program . So

47:11

a lot of people with disabilities

47:13

like to basically

47:15

to go about their day

47:17

. They require attendant

47:19

care . So it can be people who

47:22

help them with going from their bed

47:24

to their wheelchair . You

47:26

know , making food , showering

47:28

, bathing , like all sorts of different activities

47:31

, but often

47:33

it's the way that people

47:35

often receive attendant

47:37

care . It's basically an

47:40

agency will be like here are the hours that

47:42

you're getting care for . These

47:44

are the things that they can help you with . With

47:47

the direct funding program , it

47:49

really is like , okay , you're the person

47:51

with a disability , you

47:53

are able to hire whichever attendants

47:55

you would like , you can make your own schedule

47:58

, you can help determine

48:00

basically what types of activities

48:03

of daily living are they helping you with , and

48:05

it really just gives you agency and it

48:07

really empowers people with disabilities

48:09

to kind of take control of their own lives . So

48:11

that's one of the main programs that

48:13

SILT runs . And

48:16

then also there was one that I was involved

48:18

with previously , which was Dnext

48:21

Accessible Media Lab , and

48:23

they are a media lab

48:25

that would help train and support

48:27

emerging storytellers with disabilities

48:30

to produce stories on

48:32

disability . So

48:34

it was a really , really amazing experience

48:36

to kind of be a part of that , see

48:39

storytellers go through the program , gain

48:42

confidence , really produce incredible

48:44

stories as a result

48:46

as well .

48:47

So , yeah , Wow , jason

48:50

, I'm hearing such a fullness to

48:52

your life as it currently is . Not only are

48:54

you in the career that

48:56

you had been dreaming of before

48:58

all of this happened and literally had

49:00

been working at when this happened

49:02

which is wild but how

49:04

you have healed

49:07

and then taken your healing to give back to

49:09

that community of people with disabilities

49:11

whether it be fibromyalgia

49:13

disabilities or people

49:16

who are visually impaired and now you're helping

49:18

them bike ride . Like you have such a love

49:20

for this community and a level of empathy

49:23

that probably

49:25

a lot of us can't give because

49:27

we don't know . We don't know what it's like to be in that

49:30

place , like you do , and I'm

49:32

so grateful to the work that you're doing and I'm

49:35

inspired by the work that you're doing and

49:37

I am just really grateful that you came

49:39

here to take the time to share your story with me

49:41

and the pivot point listeners

49:43

, on what your experience has been in

49:46

this world , in this life , during this

49:48

chapter . What do you hope

49:50

our listeners take away from this

49:52

conversation today ?

49:56

I think that , yeah

50:00

, a few things . So

50:03

one is I mean

50:06

, fibromyalgia has been

50:09

something that has created a lot of

50:11

hardship for me and my whole family , but

50:13

it's also been something that's brought me purpose . All

50:16

those things that I've talked about journalism

50:18

, podcasting , volunteering

50:21

with the disability community these are things

50:23

that I never would have done had I not gotten

50:26

fibromyalgia . So in some ways

50:28

, the worst things in our lives , I think

50:30

, can also lead us to things that

50:32

bring us a lot of purpose . It

50:35

can involve taking steps but

50:37

basically connecting

50:39

with others who are in

50:41

similar situations , how that in

50:43

itself can be a huge way

50:46

to kind of get support and

50:48

to find purpose , to

50:51

find meaning , to put meaning

50:53

into your experiences . So

50:57

that's kind of a big one . Just keep

50:59

looking for ways to connect with others and you

51:02

never know what opportunities will come

51:04

out from it . And

51:07

, yeah , I guess one more thing is believe people

51:09

if they've got pain , and you kind of

51:11

almost believe them when they tell you .

51:14

Yeah , be in their belief score . As someone who

51:17

actually believes , be that one Be the

51:19

one , be the one . Wow

51:21

, jason , thank you so much for coming here

51:23

, joining and sharing your story today .

51:25

Yeah , thank you for bringing me on the show as well

51:27

, jess . Really appreciate it , and next

51:29

time you're in Toronto , let's grab a beer together .

51:38

If you enjoyed today's episode , please consider

51:40

liking , subscribing and letting us know your thoughts

51:42

in the comments below . It truly

51:45

means the world to me to hear from you

51:47

. New episodes will be available

51:49

every Saturday , both on YouTube

51:51

and wherever you get your podcasts , and

51:54

if you would like to learn more about my work as a coach

51:56

today's guest or have a story that you

51:58

would like to share on the pivot point , check out the

52:00

episode description for more information

52:02

. Now

52:08

time for the legal stuff . This podcast

52:10

is presented to you solely for educational

52:13

and entertainment purposes . I may

52:15

be a professionally certified coach myself

52:17

, but hosting a podcast is not coaching

52:19

. This podcast should not be used

52:22

in substitution of working with a licensed

52:24

therapist , doctor , coach or other qualified

52:26

professionals . Copy that Amazing

52:29

. See you on the next episode . Nothing

52:31

but love , jess , let's

52:33

see . Now

52:52

I have a question for you . Now

52:56

I have a question for you . Have

52:59

you ever experienced debilitating pain

53:01

and had no one believe you ? Have

53:05

you ever heard of the invisible illness

53:07

? My guest today is

53:10

Jason Herteros . Jason Herteros

53:12

, he's

53:16

a great coach . He's a great coach . He's

53:20

a great coach . He's

53:23

a great coach . He's

53:25

a great coach . He's a great coach . He's

53:29

a good coach . Visible illness my

53:31

guest today is Jason Herderick , whose

53:34

life was changed forever after

53:36

developing fibromyalgia and

53:38

postural orthostatic tachycardia

53:41

syndrome , also known as POTS

53:43

, following a sports injury

53:45

during his final year at university . Over

53:48

the span of five years , he went from

53:50

being a university student athlete with

53:52

an active social life to a mostly

53:54

bedridden chronic illness patient . Today's

53:57

episode is all about Jason's journey

54:00

, navigating this life-altering diagnosis

54:02

. And oh

54:05

, all , right , let's start this again and

54:12

he'va ready you

54:32

. Now

54:53

. I have a question for you . Have

54:55

you ever experienced debilitating

54:58

pain and had no one believe you ? Have

55:00

you ever heard of the invisible illness ? My

55:03

guest today is Jason Herteric , whose

55:05

life was changed forever after developing

55:07

fibromyalgia and postural

55:09

orthostatic tachycardia syndrome

55:12

, also known as POTS , following

55:14

a sports injury during his final year

55:16

at university . Over the

55:18

span of five years , he went from

55:20

being a university student athlete with

55:22

an active social life to a mostly

55:24

bedridden chronic illness patient

55:27

. Today's episode is

55:29

all about Jason's journey navigating

55:31

this life-altering diagnosis at

55:33

such a young age . What

55:37

it's like living with chronic illness . What

55:40

it's like living with chronic illness . What

55:43

it's like living with a chronic , invisible illness

55:45

, the lessons he has learned

55:47

and the power of joy and community

55:49

support . Today , following

55:52

a partial recovery , jason has

55:54

launched his own podcast , discomfort

55:57

Zone , and co-hosted another show

55:59

, invisible Not Broken , with the

56:01

aim of helping to promote awareness . And

56:03

Today

56:11

, following a partial recovery , jason

56:13

has launched his own podcast , discomfort

56:16

Zone , and

56:19

co-hosted another show , invisible Not

56:21

Broken , with the aim of helping

56:23

to promote awareness and understanding

56:26

of what it means to be chronically ill

56:28

and disabled . Today

56:41

, following a partial recovery , jason has

56:43

launched his own podcast , discomfort

56:45

Zone , and co-hosted another show , invisible

56:48

Not Broken , with the aim of helping to

56:50

promote awareness and understanding of

56:52

what it means to be chronically ill and disabled

56:54

and to help create community . He

56:57

has served as an advisor for the Center

56:59

of Independent Living in Toronto and

57:01

D-NEX Accessible Media Lab

57:03

, a lab dedicated to training and

57:05

supporting storytellers with disabilities

57:08

to produce authentic stories on

57:10

disability . He is the former

57:12

2021 TD Fellow on Disability

57:15

and Inclusion and the Walrus . He

57:21

is the former 2021 TD Fellow

57:23

on Disability and Inclusion at the Walrus

57:25

and has also reported on disability

57:27

for CBC and the local . Jason

57:30

graduated from Queen's University with a Bachelor's

57:33

of Applied Science in Engineering Physics

57:35

. He currently works as an energy

57:37

consultant for Brightly Software Sustainability

57:40

and Energy

57:48

Analytics and

57:51

serves on the board of directors for CILT

57:53

. In

57:58

his spare time , he enjoys playing with his six

58:00

nieces and nephews , training for triathlons

58:03

, exploring new hiking trails and

58:05

playing guitar . Jason has a wildly

58:08

powerful , inspirational and educational

58:10

story to share with you today . So , without

58:12

further ado , let's dive in . That

58:16

was painful , but

58:18

let's try it .