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Hey everybody. I'm Nicholas Ashbaugh, many of you recognize me from YouTube.

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I'm also a psychic medium. I spent the first part of my life actually hiding that part of me, just trying to be

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normal. But the minute that I embraced the things that made me unique, that's when my life started

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to get interesting. This is why I'm so excited to be launching this podcast series where we can delve into

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all things paranormal, metaphysical, and unknown.

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My first guest, Adam Berry, fits all of those categories perfectly.

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He's the executive producer and co-star of Kindred Spirits.

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You may also recognize him from his time on Ghost Hunters, and he just released a brand

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new book, which we're going to talk about today, and it's called Goodbye, Hello.

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Welcome, Adam. Great to have you here. How are you doing today?

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Thank you. Very good. How are you? I'm doing great.

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Thank you so much. Awesome. So people on my channel may be wondering what drew me to inviting you as a guest here, and

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I think there's a lot of mutual overlap with,

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even though we do very different work, I appreciate

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that you infuse your work with integrity and enthusiasm.

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You have this common goal that I do, which is normalizing the spiritual experience, trying

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to make it more comfortable for people to talk about this in everyday life.

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And in your series as well as the book here, one of the things that I really liked is you

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help people overcome the fear of the unknown.

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There's a lot of healing that happens also in the TV series where it's not just sensationalized.

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There's a lot of paranormal stuff out there where it's like it's just for the spectacle

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of it. But I think that what I really like about your work is that you're trying to understand

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the emotions of the people that are going through things, also the spiritual side, what

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they're going through, and you're trying to help people meet in the middle.

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Is that a fair summary of everything?

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Yeah, absolutely. I think when people think of the paranormal, or especially when they think of paranormal

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reality television, their first thought is, oh, this is going to be a fast, scary ride

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and it's going to be an adrenaline rush, and they're thinking of it as entertainment, which

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it is. I think it is better to approach paranormal investigation with a thought about who you're

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actually speaking to, who's on the other side of that conversation, the humanization of

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ghosts, basically. And I think once you put it into that perspective, your view of paranormal investigation is very

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different. The activity might be aggressive, but the person causing the activity needs something

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or wants something. And I think it's best to try to figure out what that is instead of just experiencing

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the activity and saying, "Oh, that's cool."

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It's trying to help them better understand their own position in the afterlife.

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Yeah, I think there was something in your book about instead of trying to go after the

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evidence, you're really trying to understand what's going on.

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And also ask the right questions because there have been times on the series where sometimes

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ghosts speak in a different language, you have to get an interpreter.

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Sometimes because of maybe an approach, they get scared, and we don't always think about

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that too. So it is about understanding what's going on in order to solve a mystery, because your

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work is very nuanced. It's not just going in using tech gear and trying to get things.

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It's basically why is it happening?

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Who are you talking to? Why are people afraid?

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So there is this sort of, it is investigation for sure, but there's also I would say a little

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bit of therapist that's going on. You're not a therapist, but you're trying to figure out the psychology, right?

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It's exactly what I was going to say to you.

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It's almost like being a ghost therapist. You're inviting the spirit to lay down on a spiritual couch and you're trying to unpack

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the baggage that they have carried into the next journey of their existence.

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And honestly, it's more fun to me.

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As human beings, we tend to hang out with our friends and we have a good time, but then

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there are times your friends need you for certain things or they're going through something

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and as humans and that human nature kicks in and you want to help them and you want

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to say, "How can I help you? What can I do?

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What can we do together? What's happening? I'll be there for you."

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And I think the people in the afterlife need the same thing, and it is just harder for

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them to get it. And I think it's more enjoyable and fulfilling to make a difference on both sides of the

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equation, the living and the dead, than it is to just do a one-sided conversation and

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experience. There were a few light bulb moments that you talked about in the book.

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One of them was really poignant, I think you were talking about a woman that was dealing

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with a terminal illness and she came up to you and it wasn't like the question that you

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thought she would ask you. She was asking instead of like, can I connect with people on the other side?

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She wanted to know how when she was a spirit, she could connect with her family.

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Can you describe how that light bulb moment helped shape a different view of ghosts and

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paranormal? Because you covered in the book a little bit, but I'd love to hear it in your own words

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here. Yeah. For sure. So this was a very long time ago.

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I think this was 14 years ago, but at the time, I had just started Ghost Hunters.

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And we would go to these events, which we still do, where there's panel discussions

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about what you do, and people ask questions like, what's your scariest experience?

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What got you into this? And those are fine and wonderful questions.

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And that's what was happening. And this is one of the first times I'd ever done something like this.

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And after it was all over, this lady came up to me and I expected her to ask me another

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generic question, how do you feel about working on Ghost Hunters now?

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Or what's the scariest thing that happened to you at Waverly Hills?

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And she looked at me and she didn't even hesitate, which was shocking at first because I've never

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been asked that. And at this point I'm like 20, I don't know, five, 26 years old.

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So not a lot of experience.

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Yes. And so she says to me, she says, "I have a terminal illness.

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I've been given X amount of time to be on this earth.

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How can I keep in touch with my family after I'm gone?"

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It was simple. It was such a simple question.

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And I obviously had no answer.

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And in a way, I still don't. I don't know how it actually occurs on the other side.

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It's different for every person too, because everyone has...

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You were talking about the lens through which we view the spiritual realm.

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I think it does affect how we experience that realm afterwards.

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So yeah, it actually probably is a little different for each person.

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But I think you were honest.

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That was so cool. You said, I don't know, isn't it something like that?

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I don't know. Well, and what was interesting is I said, I was like, "I don't know."

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I said, "I'm sorry. I apologize that I don't know.

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I wish I did." I think that was a great answer though, because we're all figuring stuff out.

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And the thing is honesty for us, and well for me specifically has always been the way

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it should be in this world.

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I'm not trying to sugar coat anything. I'm telling you my experiences, this is what happened, it's all theory, let's go with it.

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But I said I don't know. And the fascinating thing about it for me was her face didn't change.

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She didn't get disappointed, she didn't get upset.

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She might've anticipated that answer, but I remember saying to her, "Well, if you find

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out, will you come back and let me know?" I thought that was so cool.

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Keep us posted on that. Please.

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Yeah, keep me updated. If there is a purpose, if you can tell me.

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And I haven't heard from her. And so for me, it's not necessarily a sad thing.

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I'm listening to- She could also be at peace.

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... a certain amount of energy. You mentioned, no news can be good news, which is, yeah.

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No news is good news. She could be at peace. If she only has a certain amount of energy on the other side, why waste it on someone

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you don't know? You know what I'm saying?

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Even if it's for science, but why waste it for somebody else?

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So actually that moment stuck with me for a long time.

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I remember going back to the hotel room, getting emotional and being like, wow, that was really

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heavy. It is.

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It really gave me the view of what we're actually doing here.

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There are going to be a lot of people who are really into it for the thrill of the paranormal.

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And then there are going to be people that look at the paranormal as a way of trying

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to understand what is about to happen to themselves

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or to a family member. And of that moment, deep down sparked the information for this entire book.

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Building off that story, I think this also changed the view of the word ghost.

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Because I think sometimes when we are looking at the paranormal, it's like this abstracted

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thing. A ghost is an entity, it's an energy.

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We don't understand it, but very much with what you're doing, most of the ghosts you

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experience, they're humans. And this I thought was also a light bulb moment, which is once you understand that there's

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a human on the other side of this activity, then it is about trying to understand and

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communicate with it from a human perspective too.

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I guess my question here is, how has your approach towards spirits changed throughout

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your investigative career?

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Well, again, when you start out, you just want experiences and you're not really thinking

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about who's on the other side of that conversation.

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You want that knock, you want to hear it.

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And don't get me wrong, that stuff's amazing.

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It still is. If you see us reacting really crazy on Kindred Spirits, there's a reason for it.

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There's a lot of things that don't shock us anymore.

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And that's still exciting, but it's a one-sided, I don't want to say selfish, but it feels

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that way for me now. It's like it's a one-sided thing.

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And don't get me wrong, it is okay to do that.

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If you don't think you are in a good space to be a ghost therapist, don't try to do it.

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Just go and have your experience and let it be what it is, and know that on the other

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end of that conversation is a human person. But you don't have to set out and be a superhero.

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That's not the point. But for me, it changed because I think of it that way.

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Yes, I have experienced entities that I have felt haven't been in human form, that are

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maybe connected to the earth or that are something that has been here forever and ever and ever

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and it doesn't have a human form, but 99% of the time, it's going to be a mother, a

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father, an uncle, an aunt on the other end of that conversation.

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Particularly with the type of work that you're doing too, because people are coming to you

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with, oftentimes it's like after a death or they're in a haunted house.

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So yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

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Right. And so it's best to approach it that way.

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And again, you approach it as if you are entering a, we say you're entering a party and you

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don't know anyone at that party. And you say, my name is Adam.

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What is your name? Very simple. How are you today?

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The people who live here, it's hard to see you, it's hard to hear you but I can communicate

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with you. And it's building a trust just like you would build with someone else.

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And I talk about it in the book, but I think there are a few things that are on the other

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side in spiritual form that they need and want that we want.

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So communication, compassion, understanding, love, respect.

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And all of those things can still be given from a place of sincerity.

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And you don't need to know that person, you're just literally human to human having a conversation

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except it's just there in a different- A different form. ... spiritual place.

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I think that was a big aha as I was reading the book too, is just that if we just look

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at ghosts as having the same wants and needs as us sometimes even being and not even aware

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that they're a ghost, because there were several examples of that in the book and also in your

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TV series, that it gives you a sense of empathy and curiosity.

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And I'm assuming one of your other tools is just to go in without assumptions because

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those lenses get in the way of really knowing what's going on.

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So many times... Go ahead.

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That's the biggest thing. No, that's the biggest thing.

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We always try to blank slate everything, even if we know what they're experiencing.

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Honestly, it's, "Hi, my name is Adam.

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What is your name?" And then wait.

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And then based on that no response or response, you continue to just engage from a purely

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level perspective without anything around it.

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Because we've encountered spirits who seem aggressive and scared.

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And the families like, oh, this is crazy, it's a demon.

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It's so nuts. And it turns out to be this sweet old lady who doesn't understand why she's still on

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this earthly plane and it breaks your heart.

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That one was sudden. Yeah.

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And we wouldn't have found that out if we didn't approach it from such a level perspective,

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if we went in guns blazing, figuratively speaking, you already have an assumption of what is

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it, what you are doing, and what is it you're talking to?

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Who are you talking to? And it ruins.

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It can just ruin your entire perspective.

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One thing that was really cool in the book, I've heard you talk about Gettysburg before,

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but I didn't know about the ghost dog thing until the book, that might've been the first

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time. So for those that are tuning in, you lived in a haunted house as a kid, is that correct?

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Yeah, correct. So I grew up in Mussel Shoals, Alabama, shout out Mussels Shoals, Alabama.

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So I grew up a house that my parents rented, and they were told that it was haunted before

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they moved in- Crazy. ... by a woman, a lady named Gertrude.

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And they moved in.

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They moved in because they needed more space.

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They were having a family, they wanted to rent a place or they bought a place.

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And so I spent until I was in fourth grade, birth to fourth grade living in that house.

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And there was all kinds of activity. But the ghost dog thing was the one thing that happened where I knew without a doubt

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that there was something else in this world besides just human people.

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I woke up in the middle of the night and I could hear what sounded like a dog scratching

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on the bathroom door that was right outside a room that I'd share with my brother.

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And you could hear the dog walking into the room, you could hear its nails on the hardwood

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floor, you could hear the jingle of the dog, the tag collar.

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And then when it got to the TV at the foot of the bed, it was one of those old tube TVs

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where if you push the button to turn it off, it would glow a little bit.

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And so every time the sound got to the television, the TV would glow a little bit and then it

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would repeat. And so it kept doing it, and I remember processing it as this kid.

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I was like, I want to get up and run out to my parents, but I can't because the sound

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is in the doorway and I don't want to go that way.

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I was like, is it my aunt or aunt?

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My Aunt Patsy, she had a dog.

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Maybe she showed up in the middle of the night. For some reason she's sleeping over, but I don't see a dog.

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That's weird. We didn't own any animals or pets when we lived in that house.

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And it just became this weirdly bizarre moment of this is supernatural.

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This is not right. And I remember taking all the courage that I had in my little child body, and I grabbed

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the sheets on the side of the bed and I just yelled stop.

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And it completely quit.

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And there was this weird sense of like, oh, I did that.

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I controlled the scenario. Boundaries. Didn't let it get the best of me.

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Setting boundaries just like you would do with any other spirit or ghost.

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And there was this sense of calm that came over me and I laid down and went back to sleep.

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And I had told my mother about it maybe the next day or a couple days after, but she never

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really talked to me about it until I wrote this book. And I was interviewing about it and she was like, well, I guess the house was haunted.

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When you came over and told me about that ghost dog, I guess it was haunted.

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And I'm like, well, at least they believed me to a point.

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They didn't shove me off to the corner and say, be quiet about it.

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They just let me do my own thing, which I think helped me not be afraid of it.

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And to what I understand- My parents were the same way. Years later when I started doing what I'm doing now, my dad talked about a ghost experience

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he had, and my mom said, oh, I could go out of body and look at the room.

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I'm like, why didn't you tell me this when I was a kid?

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So that when I was experiencing stuff, it would've felt more normal.

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But I think that generation or the generation before, it was very much...

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And I came from a religious background too, Roman Catholic.

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You were Baptist. Baptist.

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Yeah. Yeah. Both of them are not very open-minded when it comes to the paranormal.

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No. I want to say though, I was still impressed with you conjured up that courage and created

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the boundaries. And as adult Adam, imagine you could investigate this now, how would you interact with that

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dog now that you have a different toolset and a different approach?

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Well, first off, please God, let there be a recorder running, a video camera running.

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To get the EVPs. Something please catch it on camera or on audio at least.

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I think what's weird is as a kid, because of our imagination and what we grow out of

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as you get older, I wouldn't see it in the same way.

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I was experiencing, it was happening, it could have been anything.

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And I said, stop and it quit right.

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Now as an adult with a rational mind, somebody who loves to daydream but doesn't sit and

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play pretend and doesn't have that childlike attitude or ideas, I would immediately be

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like, holy crap, what is that happening?

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That is insane. It's happening over and over.

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This is insane. I would try to process how naturally it was occurring.

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Like, okay, well what can make these sounds? Is it actual animal?

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Am I not seeing something? Is it something on the roof? Is it echoing down?

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I would try to process it that way, and then if I couldn't figure it out naturally, then

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I would be like, wow, that was an incredible experience.

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And then my paranormal investigator brain goes into, okay, well, who's attached to the

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dog? Who had a dog? Did you have a dog?

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Figuring out, did former homeowners have the dog?

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Are they here with the dog? Is the dog all alone?

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It's weird things like that. It turns into more of a scientific theory situation rather than just having the experience

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and being like, wow, that was a crazy experience.

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I do like that you guys rule it out. That was something that on Ghost Hunters, they would do too.

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It's always make sure that we're not assuming something that it is not.

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So you look at the pipes and you look at other things because there are many things that

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could cause those sounds, but that's cool.

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There's also a journalistic piece, so I think we have ghost therapist.

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We have the investigative piece where you and Amy go to the libraries and look stuff

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up. And then there's also this trying to ask the right questions things.

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So it's much more complicated and nuanced than I think people maybe realize because

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only a portion of this also makes it to the editing room floor.

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And I think one of the most important things that we do that is the hardest is interviewing

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people that have had experiences or interviewing the people that have called you in to talk

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to you because they give you a blanket like this is what's happening.

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And then you have to dig into the surface and you have to ask them more questions, and

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then they're going to skirt around things that they don't really want to talk about,

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where they think you're going to think I'm an idiot or a fool.

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And then you go through that process and then you interview them yet again, asking the same

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questions in different ways so that you can actually get the real answer.

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And sometimes Chip Coffee likes to use this phrase, they all lie, but that's not necessarily

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what it means. It doesn't mean that they're lying on purpose.

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It just means that they are either misremembering or forgetting something that they want to

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say, and they don't tell you right up front.

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Or even the case that we did where there was a headstone in the backyard, we did not know

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that there was a headstone in the backyard of this family's house until we showed up.

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She just failed to mention it because it just didn't seem like that had anything to do with

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what was happening inside. It was outside. Yeah, it's like the most obvious thing that could cause a haunting, right?

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But it's the thing that we needed to know. I'll be like, wait, wait, wait.

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You have to tell us these things. So I think that is one of the hardest things to do, and it takes that journalistic thing.

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I always feel like maybe I'm Barbara Walters or Oprah sitting there trying to pull out

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all the information. Well, I think it is that, because some of it too is maybe people, maybe they forget,

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but maybe it's just a matter of they're not comfortable talking and you have to get them

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past a fear or an old memory that they've pushed beneath the surface.

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So it makes sense.

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The name of the show, I was fascinated, it came from your husband, is that correct?

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Kindred Spirits? Yeah. First of all, I love the name because Kindred is something that you can relate to, but how

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did he come up with that? Because there was a little bit of an explanation in the book, but I was curious, was it just

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channeled and he wrote it on the paper and he liked it?

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Well, that's why, to the dedication, I call him a phrase maker.

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It's from one of our favorite plays, Edward Albee, who's afraid of a genuine wolf.

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She calls him a phrase maker because he just comes up with these things.

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So he also came up with the title of the book, Goodbye, Hello.

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So he's good at titles. And I think what's interesting about Kindred Spirits, that is what we put on the pitch.

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When they asked us, well, if you want to do something and you just put something together,

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even if you're not sold on it, give us an idea.

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What we put on paper was what we do on Kindred Spirits, and the title of that pitch was Kindred

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Spirits, title to be decided.

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And it stuck. And it stuck. Well, it took a minute.

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They love things that start with ghost or paranormal or dead.

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And so I think we went through ghost files.

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They gave us a list of- I think it's what sets you apart though too, and it really does sum up what you're trying

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to do, which is make a connection. So I think of a kindred spirit, someone I want to hang out with.

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And he came up with a- Shout out to him.

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That's a great title. Shout out. And I think it stuck.

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You might have to scroll to the K and it might not be a G or an A in the lineup, but just

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scroll down. It's good. No, it's fine.

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And I think also there is a saturation point with some of the other stuff.

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So again, what's setting you apart is this connection that you're making.

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So one other thing in the book that I loved was you talked about how your experience doing

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what you do has actually brought you closer to a spiritual connection, and this is versus

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a religious organized religion.

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And I think the way you put it was, spirituality is about looking inward, whereas a lot of

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organized religion is about looking outwards for just a connection and understanding.

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Do you want to talk a little bit about maybe how...

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Because I think it would surprise people. The same is true for what I'm doing.

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I feel like it's a deeper connection that I have years in after doing this than I ever

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felt sitting in a church sometimes. So what was your experience with that?

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Yeah, there came a point in my life where I hated to be told I needed to feel and think

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and believe a certain way. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

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Some people really love that. Some people love structure, they love the organization of it.

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They love the ritual of it. Because that's what it is.

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Religion, things like that, it's a ritual.

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Especially Roman Catholics y'all, you love your incense-

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So many rituals, yeah. ... and singing and bells and whatever.

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By the way, it's almost like magic, right?

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Yeah. It's theatrical. Hello. It's theatrical.

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It's magic with a K.

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With a K. Yeah, let's go back. So I think what's interesting about me is I like to pick and choose.

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I took some of those things that I grew up with and carried them with me.

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I enjoyed the fellowship, I enjoyed the community aspect.

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Having a community of people, not necessarily those people, but having a community of people.

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Or I love the fact that food was always involved.

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It was a table of food and you could feed people and it was about taking care of each

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other. I love that. But then it's religion, so it is the box in which they fit what they believe in.

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And out of that comes spirituality. And I love the reverse of that.

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I would rather be a spiritual person navigating this world, creating my own box that I want

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to be inside of that has a lot of doors and windows that I can open and fly out if I need

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to and go do something else. There was a piece here with, was it John E.L. Tenney

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where he was talking about how his near-death

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experience, it was not at all what I'd expect either.

25:32

When I was reading it, he saw everythingness and nothingness and this infinite connection.

25:39

And I do think that what it reminded me of is we're all just shards of the creative energy.

25:44

And so we all have that ability to go as big or as small as we want to.

25:48

And I think the way he put it is, he said he found power in agency after that experience.

25:53

And I think the work you do also, it's the same thing.

25:57

People walk away from after an episode and they have a sense, this is my home again,

26:01

or I have the power to set boundaries or communicate.

26:07

What are your thoughts on how the work that you do affects people or what impact you're

26:12

making with that?

26:15

Yeah, I think for me, I don't know, it ebbs and flows.

26:23

I think it ebbs and flows at all times. There are people that you meet that just want the experience of going on a ghost hunt.

26:32

And you're like, great, I can give you that because that is what you want, and that's

26:36

as far as you want to go at this point. It is fun too, to hear and see things.

26:39

I totally get it. Totally fine. And then that have been doing it for a while that really take to heart our methodologies

26:47

and the way that we do it, and they want to know more.

26:49

So they ask you really great questions about just how you go about it and how do you facilitate

27:00

an investigation that is meaningful for yourself.

27:02

And I was like, well, you set goals. You set your intention.

27:05

You make sure that when you enter the space, you have your intention set of what you would

27:10

like to accomplish when you leave.

27:13

You can have an experience, great. But if you want to really find out their name, what is it?

27:17

Because they can, I feel like it's interchangeable.

27:19

They can feel that. And so I think it depends on who you're talking to.

27:23

But what I love most about it is that it's universal.

27:29

Especially when I was writing this book, I didn't want to make it one-sided.

27:32

I didn't want it just to be a ghost book for people who love ghosts and love the paranormal.

27:36

I wanted it to have enough things in the book where people who love ghosts can get something

27:40

from it. But people who didn't believe in the paranormal could read these stories from real people

27:45

and their experiences and just take something from it.

27:48

Whether it's the conversation of pushing forward and having hope from my friend Bart from the

27:54

last chapter. Or the dream visitation chapters, a lot of people have dreams of loved ones.

28:01

It's like, well, let's talk about that. That's the subtitle on this too, which is processing grief and understanding death,

28:05

which is a big part of this because you know that something continues, right?

28:10

And that's the biggest takeaway for me. It's like, well, they're like, "Well, what do you get from the book?"

28:14

I get that there is something else.

28:16

It may be different for everyone. It was different for John, he had that experience when he was very young.

28:22

At the time, he was a loner. He didn't have any organized religion.

28:26

And when he crossed into wherever he was, he was alone.

28:31

And he was in this forever state forever.

28:35

They had no time constraints, only seven minutes that he was dead.

28:39

But it happens. And when he comes out of it, I love when he says, I am now after forever.

28:45

I'm on the other side of forever, which to me is so beautiful because the other side

28:50

of forever is the next journey.

28:54

This is forever. We're going to go into something else, that's going to be forever.

28:56

We're going to go into something else and that'll be forever until it's not.

28:59

And it's the other side of forever. To me that gives my self hope.

29:04

So those who might not believe in ghosts but are grieving or going through a loss or dealing

29:08

with something their own self, it's something you can literally just meditate about, journal

29:14

about, and find the commonalities.

29:17

Because again, everything that we're doing is universal, I believe.

29:21

I agree too. By the way, thanks for sharing your own experience also with having someone come through and

29:28

connect with you. I had a similar thing when my mom passed a couple years ago, and it just gives you this

29:35

sense of continuum, and it's not the same as having them here in the physical plane.

29:40

They do come back by the way, I know you said something in the book where you were afraid

29:43

of sharing the dream. I think it was good that you did that because it gives people hope.

29:48

And I don't think it's going to be the last time you connect or I don't think it's going

29:51

to jinx you, but I think it was more just like that was a very personal thing that you

29:55

had to choose to share. So thanks for doing that.

29:57

It was a really beautiful memory too.

30:00

Thank you. I think about it often, and I wanted to put it on paper.

30:05

And the biggest reason was my two aunts, Aunt Wanda and Aunt Patsy, Aunt Wanda and Aunt

30:12

Rita, they had had dreams probably around the same time I did, to be honest.

30:17

But they never talked about it until it casually came up in conversation.

30:21

And I was like, if they had only talked about it or if we had talked about it as a family

30:26

earlier than this moment, oh my God, we're talking almost 10 years down the road.

30:33

If we had just talked about it a little bit earlier, that closure, that aha moment, oh,

30:37

that's wild and crazy. She did it for everybody.

30:40

That could have helped us I think, a little bit sooner.

30:45

I think that it's much more experiences with the other side, with the great beyond.

30:50

It's much more prevalent, but there is fear of judgment, of being laughed at.

30:56

And I know I used to have a regular corporate job where I left, and I remember starting

31:01

to do this and just wondering, I wonder what those people think.

31:03

I'm at a point now, I don't care. But there comes a point where you just have to embrace it.

31:07

It's like I read cards and I talk to dead people, but it's fine.

31:11

But I think not everyone's there.

31:13

Although one of the things that I liked in your book too was there was a chapter about

31:17

accessing different parts of your brain. There's some research that's been done once you die.

31:23

Maybe this is just us waking up and connecting with that latent skill that I do think we

31:29

all have, and it's just a matter of not overcoming fear.

31:32

That's also a big theme in your book too, not being afraid of just looking at the unknown.

31:38

You did it in Gettysburg. That was another question I had.

31:41

A lot of people would've run away when they saw that residual haunting, but you went further

31:47

down the path into that. So what is it maybe that in your own personality, is it curiosity?

31:55

Maybe then it was the thrill, but what is it that keeps you wanting to turn off the

32:00

lights and turn on the recorder and continuing to connect with things that are unknown?

32:04

I'm curious. Well, I think the biggest reason is that we don't know everything still.

32:11

We don't know everything. Research theory, right?

32:13

Yeah. It's research. It always changes.

32:15

Something happens and it changes the way you think about something else that happened.

32:19

And so it's always evolving and flowing, which I love.

32:22

I think that's really cool. That's research, it's always ever-changing.

32:27

I think the Gettysburg experience for me was a, almost like a desperation moment.

32:32

It was like, if you're going to do something, do it now.

32:36

It's going to happen, right? And what's crazy, I tell people now, don't have that attitude because you're going to

32:42

miss something that's right in front of your face. So the fact that it happened for me and I had that mentality and attitude, I know it

32:52

was meant to be. I know that it was put in my path for a reason, and I think it was one of those moments that

32:58

when it started happening, it was like, okay, great.

33:03

For some reason I knew that I was safe. I knew that what was happening was supposed to be happening, and I needed to push the

33:10

boundaries as far as I could. I don't even think I talk about this in the book, but did I talk about the little cat's

33:17

eye orb that came up? You did not. No. Okay.

33:19

So the story gets a bit, so once I walked into the line of trees, I could hear what

33:24

sounded like footsteps around me.

33:27

I could hear again the rebel yell where it's like, whoa, it's very distant, weird, light,

33:34

anomaly, spark, whatever.

33:36

But then this little tiny cat's eye orb, the size of a cat's eye, like a real orbit.

33:42

It was lighting up the side of the tree, came out of nowhere and stopped in front of my

33:47

path where I could go. And then it shot off in a direction as if to say, come this way, right?

33:55

Come this way. Wow. And then like any good horror movie, I turned around and left.

34:00

You did it. I got out.

34:02

Okay. That was good.

34:05

Because I was like, this is a bit, this is a bit, this is a right.

34:11

And I left. But I felt okay to leave because I was getting a little, I don't want to freak myself out

34:18

about it. That was very weird.

34:21

I knew that it was calling me in the direction.

34:23

Maybe there was something I could have seen or something I could have, I don't know.

34:27

But I've seen too many horror movies- That makes it more relatable.

34:30

I was like, wow. He just had all the courage because even for someone-

34:36

Walking into the trees was fine. Getting in there and having the experience was fine.

34:40

But when that little thing showed up and then was like, boom, I was like, no, no, no, I'm

34:44

out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. Well, to that end, what's the weirdest thing that maybe didn't make it to camera off Kindred

34:51

Spirits or just something that you didn't have all the gear there and you're like, God,

34:54

I wish I could have captured that, either quirky or unexpected, that has been on the

35:01

cutting room floor that you wish people could see?

35:03

There've been moments with clients that are really intense, that we've chose to remove

35:09

just because it was emotional.

35:11

That makes sense. Or even funny.

35:14

There was a lady who, I adored her and she had the greatest one-liners you've ever seen

35:20

in your entire life. And I was like, we can't put any of this on television.

35:24

But it's things like that.

35:27

Paranormal wise, if it happened and it was big, you're going to see it.

35:32

That's the nature of what we're trying to do.

35:34

But there was always little things.

35:36

I think when we filmed at Palmyra New York at the Spiritualist Sybil Phelps house, she

35:42

was a spiritualist. I was doing an interview and I heard-

35:46

She's the one that did seances, right? Back in the day. Yeah. She had the seance.

35:48

She was one-

35:51

That was a fun chapter. Incredible. And we fought to keep that in because we were like, this is where we come from.

35:57

Her experience coming back to us, conjuring her at her seance table in her parlor, her

36:03

showing up is proof-of-the-afterlife.

36:06

I'm sorry. It is to me. Because that was her religion.

36:08

She felt that she could do it when she was alive.

36:12

She was doing your work then. It was just a different version of paranormal investigation.

36:16

Exactly. And so at that location, we had a ton of activity that we couldn't show.

36:19

There was a disembodied male voice that happened behind me.

36:22

We played cards with a ghost.

36:25

And you're like, how did you do that? I was doing the Estes method with the blindfold on the headphones, and I had the spirit box,

36:32

and Amy would lay out cards, and then I literally just translated what he wanted to do next

36:38

with the cards, literally playing cards with the ghost, which is bizarre.

36:42

Or at the end of the episode, I had moved the doctor's bag into a room where there was

36:50

a bunch of morning stuff, like morning dresses and morning room.

36:55

And when I moved the bag into the room because that was the brunt of the activity, it was

36:59

attached to this bag. I came back to the room with Amy and we were asking questions and just like the Haunted

37:04

Mansion in Disney World, you could hear these footsteps coming down the hallway and you

37:09

heard wooo.

37:13

Whoa. The saddest moan.

37:15

And we were like, oh no, my God.

37:18

And I went and got the bag out of the room and moved it.

37:21

And I don't know if that made it to the episode, but it's weird things like that that happened

37:25

that aren't either the biggest thing that happened or it wasn't something that led us

37:32

to our conclusion, which just makes no sense to put it in.

37:36

I wish we had three hours to do these episodes, it'd be better.

37:40

I'm sure that there's an audience out there somewhere, so put it out there.

37:44

But speaking of, you were talking a little bit about the Estes method, just in case people

37:50

don't know you use a spirit box, but basically one of you, like me, will have headphones

37:55

on so you can't hear the other person. They ask the questions, and it's a way to not be influenced because sometimes with a

38:01

spirit box, it's static and then words pop out.

38:03

Is that correct? Right. So this is a way where you can use your own intuition and filter a little bit too.

38:09

And the questions that are being asked by the other person usually are history, factual

38:14

related research that the person listening doesn't know anything about.

38:19

So if they start mentioning names from the thing that they're holding, it's really cool.

38:24

What's great about it? I think there's a psychic element to it.

38:27

There is, yeah. It's hard to explain on television.

38:30

So yes, you do hear words.

38:33

It's in between the static it sounds like ch, ch, ch, but you hear Adam.

38:40

It's not just like Adam one quick thing. It's also sounds very distant like you're reaching through the static to hear it.

38:47

Then at times you feel the need to say certain words or phrases and you just feel the need.

38:53

I think we did an episode where I was doing the Estes method and we were doing a group

38:59

therapy session in an asylum, and my friend said, what color makes you calm?

39:06

And for some reason I was just yellow, but I just felt the need to say the word yellow

39:11

and it matched exactly with what she was saying.

39:14

There have been times where you feel what they are feeling.

39:17

You feel their anxiety or happiness or sorrow, and you're feeling and you try to describe

39:23

it. And then rare but occasionally you'll get the visualization of what they're projecting,

39:29

something that was traumatic in their life.

39:33

I remember doing the toboggan inn and I kept saying, mom or she left.

39:37

And I remember getting a distinct visual of this woman in a tan dress that went down to

39:43

mid-calf. She had pantyhose on, a little kitty cat heel, and then she literally was in a doorway and

39:50

then walked away. And it was as if I was sitting on the ground as a child.

39:55

It was plain as day. It was in my mind's eye and I could see it.

39:58

I knew it was connected to the person that was talking.

40:00

That's the idea. Also, anyone can do it.

40:03

It's an acquired taste. I think you just have to practice it, but anyone can do it.

40:07

It's not like it's a special power or anything.

40:10

It sounds to me from the book and from what you're talking about too, you're just developing

40:15

your intuitive skills because you're talking a little bit of clairvoyance, clairsentience,

40:18

clairaudience. So sometimes you're hearing it, sometimes you're feeling it, sometimes you're seeing

40:23

it. So this tarot cards, it's one way to access.

40:28

And I had thought about this morning, I'm curious if you appreciate or prefer to have

40:34

that level of abstraction rather than doing what Chip does or sometimes what I do and

40:38

talking straight to the other side. Would you ever want to develop your mediumship further than it already is?

40:45

Because you are there, you're starting to enter into it.

40:50

So I always say, by the way, I love your dog making the cutest bed.

40:55

Oh my God. This is Apollo costar of my life.

40:58

No, listen, I can't give enough of that dog is like, where is my bed?

41:02

Why isn't it not fluffy? It's so cute.

41:08

To the second question, I think everyone has an ability.

41:11

I think you just have to hone it. I think we're all connected.

41:13

I think that the idea in the book where we were talking about the death experience and

41:20

your brain is firing, it's actually creating, it's not misfiring.

41:24

It's actually working and creating, and it's almost like-

41:27

Like an activation. I think some psychics, and I pose that in the book, maybe some people just have an early

41:33

activation. They clicked into that section and I think you can find it.

41:38

So while I can't talk to your relative or I can't give a cold reading or anything like

41:45

that, I do think in paranormal investigation, being aware of your senses and your surroundings

41:54

heightens your own psychic ability. I can walk into a room and I can tell you whether or not we're going to get activity.

42:00

It's as simple as, I describe it as if you're looking at an apartment or a house to buy

42:05

or rent, and you walk in, you go, this space feels great.

42:08

Or you're like, this space, something's bad. I don't like it.

42:10

It's the same exact feeling except you're looking for ghosts.

42:14

And so, yeah, I do believe that there is a psychic thing to paranormal investigation when

42:21

you're a paranormal investigator, especially if you've worked with someone for so long,

42:25

the two people working off each other very well.

42:28

When we started Kindred Spirits, Amy and I, we would say, I would look at her and I'd

42:32

be like, "Yeah?" And she'd be like, "Uh-uh?"

42:35

I'd be like, "Oh," and she would go, "True."

42:37

And I'd be like, "Same." That doesn't go well for TV.

42:42

They need it for TV. So you had to start to overcome that a little bit.

42:46

The camera operator, be like, "Guys, we have no idea what you're talking about.

42:48

I know you do, but can we just explain it for the people at home?"

42:52

And so it's that kind of thing. And so I think it's if you investigate with people who you get along with, who you built

42:59

a relationship with, which I talk about in some of my lectures, I think it promotes positivity.

43:05

It promotes really great energy. I think-

43:07

Safety too. You have to feel safe to be open.

43:10

Yeah, I think they feel that energy. I think they want to be a part of that energy that you're giving off, that you're creating.

43:16

You should have to leave your baggage at the door.

43:18

But yeah, I will continue to develop all of my skills in this life because I think it

43:28

can only do good, it can only help.

43:31

I agree. Yeah, no, just as someone who has some mediumship as I was watching, and I'm like both you and

43:36

Amy are because you're seeing and hearing things without the tech gear.

43:40

So I just wanted to give that confirmation.

43:43

Thank you. You're welcome. I did have one of the shamans that we work with who's very psychic and connected, said

43:51

that to us at one point. And I was like, I felt really honored.

43:56

I was like, oh, this wise older gentleman who's so great.

44:01

You've got it kid. You've got that it.

44:03

And I was like, thanks.

44:05

It's just practice that's really with anything.

44:08

Some people, it's super easy. Chip can just go there.

44:12

The rest of us, we work a little harder, but it's all there if you want it.

44:17

For sure. Quick question, if you could go back, and I remember reading in the book sometimes you

44:23

said you wish you could have spent more time, I think with the nurses, for instance.

44:26

Is there any case where, whether it's a private client or something on Kindred Spirits or

44:32

ghost hunters, is there anything where you wish you could go back and spend more time

44:36

or would you have approached it differently and maybe why?

44:41

Or are you pretty happy you did the best you could in every situation?

44:44

Listen, I don't like putting too much pressure

44:49

on the should have, coulda, woulda of an investigation.

44:53

That's smart. Because then you feel like, oh, I could have done better, because always evolving.

44:59

So me looking at a ghost photo when I was 16 is very different than me looking at a

45:05

ghost photo now. I'd be like, that's not a ghost I can tell you what it is.

45:09

So I think we evolve. So I don't want to do that but I think there are cases, for instance, these big places

45:14

that everyone likes to investigate, Waverly Hills, Pennhurst Asylum, Trans-Alligator,

45:18

Lunatic Asylum, these giant locations that are very haunted.

45:24

There's always going to a spirit or someone, they're reaching out for someone, there's

45:30

always going to be next. The nurses in Waverly Hills.

45:32

Yes. I want to get back there specifically then - Maybe that's a better question.

45:35

Is there either a wish list place that you'd like to go to or unfinished business somewhere

45:40

where you like, you know what, I want to do a little bit more here?

45:43

Maybe that's a better way to phrase the question.

45:45

Yeah. Well, Waverley's for one, we still haven't made it back to that nurse's wing.

45:50

And I want to check on my girls. I want to check on my girls or men, whoever.

45:56

I want to check on you guys, figure out what's happening because I think they deserve it,

46:01

they deserve that. And you talked about the power of prayer and positivity there too.

46:04

And I think that was beautiful too, because bringing a peace or neutrality to the space

46:07

that wasn't there. Trying to give them something that they can't get for themselves.

46:13

I think when you pray for other people or for souls, I think it actually helps them.

46:17

Yes, it makes you feel good, but I think in turn it also makes them feel good.

46:22

It does. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's like when you pray for other people.

46:24

So that for sure, there's always the fun ones that we'd love to get into like Graceland.

46:31

Let's get into Grace. That'd be cool. We find the ghost of Elvis.

46:35

The White House. people have always talked about it being haunted.

46:38

Disney World, get me into Disney World.

46:42

Let's do that. There's fun things like that.

46:48

And then, there's probably a countless number of other cases that are just out there that

46:53

we don't know about. It's going to be the next thing.

46:56

It's going to be the next thing that we want to go and do.

46:58

Because again, not thinking of it as just having experiences, thinking of it as what

47:03

can I do to help the living and help the dead?

47:05

It's like it happens without us knowing.

47:09

It's like we're waiting for that case file.

47:11

A synchronicity. You're trying to create that perfect connection.

47:14

Yeah, exactly. To that end, when you're all said and done and ready to go to the great beyond, what

47:20

is the legacy that you are hoping to leave behind with all this research?

47:24

And you're also a little bit of a documentary person here too.

47:27

So I'll add that to the list of four other things that we talked about.

47:34

Because there was this really cool thing. You have a ritual you were talking about with gravestones where you talked about two different

47:41

deaths. There's the physical death and then there's the death.

47:43

I don't know if it was three lifetimes. I'm trying to remember.

47:45

It takes three generations to be forgotten.

47:53

It's a Native American saying where you die your first death, and then your second death

47:58

is when no one ever says your name again.

48:00

So walking through cemeteries, which clearly love a good cemetery, but walking through

48:06

an old cemetery, especially in New England, and it's overgrown and over...

48:11

You can see seeing a name, reading the name, and bringing that person back to life for

48:17

that moment and reading their epitaph and thinking about what their life could have

48:21

been like, and maybe asking some questions.

48:24

I think that to me is beautiful.

48:26

And so I guess legacy wise, that's a tough question.

48:29

You're a bit of a story and then you're helping carry on the remembrance of people or telling

48:34

their stories, giving them a voice.

48:36

I think for me, I guess you want people to be like...

48:47

Actually, it's scary to say what you want, because then what if you want now isn't what

48:51

you want in 20 years. So let's just leave it at, it's going to be whatever it's going

49:02

to be. And if I end up being forgotten in three generations,

49:07

I hope someone reads my tombstone at some

49:11

point. Or your book. Or my book.

49:14

Or the book that you find at the dollar bin.

49:16

Just whatever. I hope that much.

49:23

And I think that's what we can all just, that's really all we can hope for is just having

49:30

something that's like ours forever and letting it just stand that way.

49:36

And if not, then that's the way it is. Good answer.

49:41

And I agree. You're allowed to change your mind, by the way, to the legacy.

49:44

That's a tough question that even I would say, I don't know.

49:47

I'm a work in progress. And listen, that's a good question though.

49:50

That's a really good question. Let's talk a little bit more about the book.

49:53

Is there anything about your book that I didn't bring up that you'd like to talk about?

49:56

The creative process, what you hope to accomplish with this, who might benefit from reading

50:01

this, and feel free to fill them in?

50:05

Well, yeah. Again, I think this book is, it's for everyone.

50:10

I don't think it's one-sided. I think that's why it doesn't say ghost in the title.

50:15

Also good, yeah.

50:19

I think if you like ghosts and you like paranormal stories and you like to deep dive into what

50:23

a ghost actually is and why they stick around, I think that's a great book for you.

50:28

If you're looking for comfort because you've lost a loved one or you're grieving over the

50:33

death of even a pet, I think it can help you because it talks about how there is something

50:39

else and you're not alone. And there's other things besides this existence and have faith in that situation.

50:47

I think the coolest thing though, that came about, and we touched briefly in earlier,

50:52

our religion. When I talk about religion, that chapter that, I think it's chapter four or five in the book,

51:00

I moved it, we moved it there because it was like chapter nine, and I was like, no, no,

51:04

no, we got to put this- No, it's important. ... on top.

51:07

And the reason why is because A, I wanted to just call out the fact...

51:13

My friend Greg Newkirk mentioned this in our interview with him, but calling out the fact

51:17

that the paranormal genre in Western civilization is very Christian.

51:22

It is extremely Christian. It comes from a Christianity background.

51:26

You can meet someone who's atheist, who believes in demons, which is okay, why not?

51:32

So I think it was important to put that out there.

51:35

It was important to touch briefly on other religions to say that everybody talks about

51:40

ghosts in different ways, but I can't speak on that because I'm not part of that religion.

51:44

However, I think it was important for myself and for those who are going to read this book

51:49

who are surrounded by Christianity and paranormal Christianity and all that, to talk about what's

51:55

actually in the text of the Bible. And so for me, it's always been used against me in terms of people would slide in the DMs

52:02

or in the messages and be like, you are doing something wrong.

52:05

You say you're a Christian, or you went to school or went to Baptist, whatever.

52:09

You were speaking to demons, it's not a ghost.

52:12

It was a story of Saul basically, where he had cast out all of the mediums and then went

52:18

to a medium himself. So I thought that was fantastic.

52:21

It's amazing. It's that stuff.

52:23

It's the fact that I met with Matt Arnold, who dissected the original Hebrew text for

52:30

the time that it was written, for the society it was written, and where he talks about Jesus,

52:36

who everyone says, Jesus says this, that and other.

52:38

He never said, ghosts don't exists. He walks on water and the disciples are yelling at him.

52:44

He's a ghost. He's a ghost.

52:46

And he says, I am a divine being.

52:49

Ghosts don't walk on water. He doesn't say ghosts don't exist.

52:52

And so for me, having that exploration with this theologian, this professor who is looking

53:00

into the paranormal and comparing the two sides, having him tell me from the actual

53:06

text that, no, no, no, it's okay to look at all this stuff.

53:10

Look at what they did in the Bible. They were receiving messages through fire.

53:15

Jesus. Jesus was talking to-

53:17

Hello. Jesus is the ultimate medium, actually.

53:19

He's a medium. He's a healer. And he did crazy, supernatural things, but so did a lot of other people.

53:25

All the disciples were receiving messages as well.

53:28

There's a lot of weird supernatural stuff, near-death experiences, resurrections, all

53:33

kinds of- Tell me about it.

53:35

Suddenly a deck of cards or an EVP is not such a crazy thing because it's just one way

53:41

of connecting. I'm with you on that.

53:44

So I wanted to put that first and foremost because somebody might pick up that book and

53:49

start reading it and have very strong opinions about this is not good.

53:55

They've been told it's evil in other words.

53:57

Right. In that box, they've been told in that box that this is an evil thing, like tarot cards

54:02

and sigils and whatever.

54:04

And I just wanted to point that out and get it out of the way so that it's like, no, no,

54:08

no, no. Here it is. Get it out of the way.

54:11

Take it for what you will. And I think that is a really important chapter.

54:16

So if you get past that chapter and you keep reading, thank you.

54:20

If you hate me after that chapter, make sure that you post online that you hate me and

54:24

burn the book with a video so that it goes viral.

54:27

Still get engagement. Buying the book to burn it.

54:30

Just let's do that. Ban the book in Florida.

54:32

Let's just do something. By the way, I highly recommend listening to the audio version of this one.

54:39

I got both the print version and the audio version, actually the digital too, so I can

54:42

take notes. So you got three from me.

54:44

But I think- Thank you. The reading of it is great.

54:47

And you have a little bit of a background. Some folks may not know this, but I think your first career trajectory was more Broadway

54:54

or acting. Is that correct?

54:57

Yeah, so I went to school for musical theater.

54:59

I grew up in Muscle Shoals. So if anyone's seen the documentary Muscle Shoals on Netflix, you're going to know why

55:05

I chose a path like singing path. It's recording capital of the South before Nashville.

55:10

Everyone recorded there. We grew up around people that were writing for famous musicians.

55:16

And so when I said I want to be a singer, people would say, okay.

55:20

They wouldn't say get a real job. They'd be like, great.

55:23

And so I grew up in the theater. I grew up singing in church, and I went to school at the Boston Conservatory and I was

55:28

always fascinated by ghosts. Ghost was a hobby.

55:31

And I think once I met my husband, Ben, we had the same interest.

55:35

He went to the Guthrie in Minneapolis, studied classical theater, studied in London.

55:40

So we had these same interests.

55:42

Ghost was one of those. And so we would explore together and then all of a sudden the hobby became the career.

55:48

Which is a blessing, a lot of people can't say that.

55:54

My husband and I run a nonprofit theater company in Provincetown, so we're still in the theater.

55:59

I could still win a Tony one day, don't get a twisted kids.

56:03

You can find me on YouTube belting my face off.

56:06

It's fine. So it's like, you know what it's still there and I think there's something to it, but I

56:15

love that you bring it up because a lot of people, when they meet someone or when they

56:20

know about someone, they only know one side of that.

56:24

And we all have different sides of our lives and our talents and our experiences.

56:29

And so yes, Paranormal investigation and the study of the supernatural is a giant part

56:34

of my life, and I love it so much, and I will do it forever and ever and ever, and I will

56:37

never stop doing it and I'll explore. But I also, I like my dogs and I love theater, and I love to sing and perform and act, and

56:44

I love to go on vacation and I love a good martini.

56:47

So let's branch out.

56:50

Well, by the way, this is the one thing that I think everybody doesn't get with people

56:55

that are in paranormal. I don't take cards to go meet friends for dinner.

57:00

I'm not reading people in the room. It's like we're normal people that have extraordinary

57:04

experiences, but also in very compartmentalized

57:09

parts of our lives. It's not something where you're on everywhere, maybe certain mediums on TV.

57:15

Listen, and that's a human nature. That's human nature, it's for everyone.

57:20

I'm a doctor, I'm a brain surgeon.

57:23

Yes, you are, but they probably like golf.

57:27

I'm going to assume. Exactly.

57:29

They like other things. So I appreciate bringing it up.

57:36

But to that effect though, I think it did help me with the audiobook.

57:41

I was like, I love that I can sit here and narrate this and really make the information

57:49

one way, but make the stories really vibrant and-

57:51

It felt like a conversation actually, like this.

57:53

You were just talking and sharing pieces from your life.

57:56

And I thought that the organization was good too, because it was just like we did start

58:01

off early, but then it was just pivotal light bulb moments.

58:04

That's what it reminded me of from that experience with the woman who was going through a terminal

58:10

experience to also, you talked about, I think

58:13

one of your friends who had a mediumship experience

58:15

with someone that a mutual friend was passing or whatever.

58:18

But there were these moments where you just thought, this world is bigger than I thought

58:23

it was. And it just kept getting bigger and bigger as the book continued.

58:28

Okay, so I am going to blow your mind for a second if we have time.

58:32

Yeah, we have time. ... with a story. So yes, bigger and bigger and bigger.

58:36

But then this is how small the world actually is in terms of what we are doing here.

58:42

I recorded the audiobook in the summer, and I had four days of different sessions throughout

58:47

the entire summer. And when they approached me originally, they said, we want you to come to New York.

58:51

We have a studio here that you can do it in New York. And I was like, well, I live on Cape Cod.

58:55

Is there any way we could do it somewhere in Boston because it's summer, please let

59:00

me get out. It's going to take forever to get off the island.

59:03

And so they said, yeah, there's a place in Arlington right outside Boston.

59:08

And so I drove up and I spent the first two days back to back recording my book, and I

59:13

was getting to know my engineer who was working with me.

59:16

He went to Berkeley. Boston, and Berkeley shared a lot of things.

59:21

I went to Emerson, so I'm familiar with the-

59:23

Yeah. So we had a lot of different...

59:28

He graduated in 2004, I graduated in 2005.

59:31

We have a lot of similarly experiences.

59:34

We talked about the same cafeteria lady, and I was like, girl, she was great.

59:38

Just like whatever. We had the same little friends and we were talking, and it made a really great welcoming

59:44

environment for this process that was very difficult.

59:47

So we get to the third day and we finished it, and we're almost to August, and he's like,

59:51

"Hey, listen, I take August off to be with my kids because before they go back to school,

59:55

so I'm going to have my other engineer work with you just to finish up the book.

59:58

It's going to be great. You're in good hands." And I said, "You know what?

1:00:01

This is awesome." But I'm sad because we had just finished the first section of chapter 11, which was the

1:00:07

dream chapter. And I said, my friend Yvette, who went to Berkeley had this really crazy experience.

1:00:15

And so no spoiler alert, but I started explaining to him the story of Yvette's friend who suddenly

1:00:20

passed away. They all found out about it.

1:00:22

He came to her in a dream multiple times to tell her information.

1:00:26

He confirmed it with actual factual information.

1:00:29

It is just the wild dream.

1:00:31

There was a funeral that happened in Pennsylvania, and it was snowing in late April, and everyone

1:00:35

thought it was so weird. That was beautiful.

1:00:38

And I start to explain this beautiful story because it's one of the most mind-blowing

1:00:42

stories for me, that's in the book.

1:00:45

I said, well, I changed the friend's name to Patrick because of the family.

1:00:53

And again, I'm not going to use his real name here, but I said, I changed the name to Patrick.

1:00:58

And he looks at me and goes, "Peter?"

1:01:02

And I stopped and I said, "Yes."

1:01:06

And he was like, "Peter, guitar player, Berkeley?"

1:01:10

And I said- He knew.okay. Wow. ...yes.

1:01:13

And he goes, "He was my best friend."

1:01:16

And I said, "What?" And he goes, "He was supposed to play guitar at my wedding two weeks after he died, two

1:01:23

weeks after he died." And I was like, "Uh-huh?"

1:01:26

And then I continue the story. And I tell him the whole thing because at this point I'm like, I don't know how he's

1:01:33

going to receive. This guy, his job is to be an engineer to record audiobooks and podcasts.

1:01:37

And he's sitting here in front of me and I'm telling him the story about his friend came

1:01:41

to another friend who he did not know Yvette.

1:01:44

He knew Yvette's partner at the time that she was with at the time.

1:01:48

He knew him but did not know Yvette.

1:01:52

And so he went home, he read that chapter.

1:01:56

He texted me that night and said, I'm finishing this book out with you.

1:01:58

I'm finishing it for my friend. Now I want people to really grasp what that means.

1:02:04

Out of the thousands of places I could have recorded this audiobook, I ended up in a studio

1:02:09

with the person who was best friends of someone who suddenly passed away that did not know

1:02:14

the end of the outcome of the story.

1:02:16

Also, he would've never picked up my book.

1:02:19

He's not into the paranormal. He would've never picked up my book off the shelf and read it.

1:02:22

And also, there was an entire set of friends that were separate from Yvette and her friends.

1:02:27

So Yvette and her friends got all that information from Yvette when it happened, when the dream

1:02:32

happened. And then 15, 16 years down the road, this entire new set of friends are finally getting

1:02:39

that closure, which is so crazy to me.

1:02:43

If I remember correctly, reading it, Patrick, we'll call him, but he was very intent.

1:02:48

Is this the one that went three times that was bothering?

1:02:51

Yes. So he really wanted to get the message through to make sure that the family knew that-

1:02:57

Yeah, it was a mistake, it was an accident.

1:03:03

And they downplayed it. They said it was natural causes, and it wasn't.

1:03:07

Feels like spirits making sure, absolutely sure that everybody he needs to know found

1:03:12

out. So this is one more finger of that.

1:03:16

What's so crazy is I finished that entire chapter with something like this.

1:03:22

Maybe this is his final performance.

1:03:24

This is his grand finale.

1:03:26

Getting this story in the book, maybe this is his grand finale.

1:03:32

And you're right. No, it wasn't.

1:03:35

The audio producer. The grand finale comes months later when I'm randomly recording, and-

1:03:41

That's really cool. ... his best friend is sitting in the room with me. And so if people, you don't have to believe in ghosts.

1:03:47

But that to me is so, it's almost a miracle.

1:03:52

It's a weird miracle thing.

1:03:54

And for me, it makes me think that Patrick all those years ago went to Yvette because

1:04:00

yes, she was open to receiving this information, but he knew that somewhere down the line that

1:04:06

this book was going to be written by myself and that I was going to be in this same room

1:04:10

with his best friend who didn't know. And even when it was go crazy, he was like, I was at that wake.

1:04:15

I remember it feeling like it was very strange that it was snowing.

1:04:18

So it's so bizarre to me.

1:04:21

And when this book goes to paperback, I'm going to narrate the hell out of that version.

1:04:26

We're going to attack it at the end of that chapter.

1:04:28

Yeah, Please. That's beautiful, actually.

1:04:31

And I would think it would be hard not to get emotional there too, because it's just

1:04:35

showing, again, we were talking about legacy.

1:04:37

It's little things like this. You never really know what an impact you're making even with your TV series and other

1:04:43

things, because I think it just helps people realize it's okay to see things or feel things

1:04:47

or wonder about this stuff.

1:04:50

So you're normalizing it, having intelligent conversations and normalizing it.

1:04:56

It's wild. And I think about it, and I still can't wrap my head around it.

1:05:00

I want it to blow my mind over and over, but I come to terms-

1:05:04

That's a synchronicity- ... I'm just not going to understand- ... if I've ever heard one.

1:05:06

It was meant to be. You were meant to connect with him, and the whole reason wasn't just because he was going

1:05:11

to do a good job with the audio, but it was to get the message.

1:05:13

So you were a messenger too, so it wasn't just the person who relayed the dream.

1:05:19

So he's working, Patrick's working through many people to make sure that everyone finds

1:05:23

out. It's so wild.

1:05:25

It's so wild. That's really cool. Thank you for sharing that. Listen, yeah, it's a blessing.

1:05:29

And when you get to that part of the book, those who haven't read it yet, you're going

1:05:32

to be like, oh, no, no, this is great. You'll really truly understand it.

1:05:36

Well, thank you so much today for spending some time.

1:05:39

It's been just a real pleasure and honor, and I look forward to seeing whatever you

1:05:43

guys decide to do next. Hopefully you get renewed. I don't know.

1:05:46

That's still out there. We don't know yet. Yeah, it's still out there.

1:05:50

If anybody wants to follow, you can. Well, first you can get the book wherever books are sold.

1:05:53

Please, this is your chance to plug the book and your TV appearances, whatever you'd like

1:05:56

to. Go for it. First, you can get the book, Goodbye Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding Death Through

1:06:01

the Paranormal, wherever books are sold. Amazon's easy as Barnes and Noble.

1:06:06

Go to your local bookstore and ask the mom and pop to bring it up.

1:06:09

That's always great because they make some money.

1:06:11

If you want to follow along, Adam-Berry.com is my website.

1:06:17

Yeah, you can Google Adam Berry, you'll find me.

1:06:19

Social media, Twitter, X Adam, J. Berry.

1:06:24

Instagram is Adam Berry. And then I'm the Adam Berry on TikTok.

1:06:30

Listen, I'm easily reachable through email and I love to hear from people who have read

1:06:35

the book. And there's also a special group on Facebook.

1:06:38

If you're still on Facebook, there's a special group called Goodbye Hello.

1:06:43

It's just for people who have either read the book or in the process of reading the

1:06:46

book, it's a safe space for people to explore their own thoughts and ideas about the book

1:06:52

related to their own life. And it's a great community of building relationships,

1:06:56

knowing that you're not alone and that the ideas in the book are truly universal.

1:07:01

Thank you so much. And again, if you haven't checked out the TV series, please do that as well.

1:07:05

It is different than most ghost hunting shows.

1:07:08

This is more like paranormal investigation, and again, it's done with a lot of heart,

1:07:12

a lot of empathy, and I like that you give people what they need to feel like they can

1:07:17

reclaim spaces and feel safe. So thanks for bringing some integrity to the field.

1:07:22

I do appreciate that as well. Thank you very much.

1:07:25

It's available on Discovery Plus or Max or wherever.

1:07:29

Kindred Spirits. Max is where I watch it, but yeah, it's all good.

1:07:32

Love your T-shirt, by the way, too. I forgot to mention that earlier.

1:07:34

Thank you. Listen, I got merch.

1:07:37

Is that your merch? Okay. Is that also on your website?

1:07:41

Adamberrymerch.com. I have a lot of different things.

1:07:44

Yesterday I wore one for an interview that says I'm a mourning person.

1:07:47

M-O-U-R-N. M-O-U-R, yeah.

1:07:49

Okay. Yeah. I like it. Listen, I like fun, dead pun merch.

1:07:55

And so that's where we are. No gloom and doom in this one.

1:07:58

No gloom and doom. No, but I like the ghost one. I think I'll grab that for myself.

1:08:01

Thank you. So thank you. All right, everybody, thank you so much.

1:08:04

Thank you, Adam, and thanks for being my first guest too.

1:08:06

I appreciate that. You're welcome.

1:08:08

Thank you. Take care. I'd like to take a moment to say thanks to everybody who listened to this first podcast.

1:08:14

As many of you know, this has been a labor of love.

1:08:16

I've been planning it for about a year in advance, and I'm so happy that this has finally

1:08:20

launched. If you'd like to see more episodes in the future, remember to like, subscribe and rate

1:08:26

this podcast wherever possible. And on YouTube, leave a comment.

1:08:29

Let me know what you enjoyed and who you'd like me to talk to in the future.

1:08:32

Finally, if you want to give back a little bit extra and support projects like this,

1:08:36

you can also become a YouTube member and you can get more information on my main YouTube

1:08:40

channel page. Thanks again, and I hope to see you soon.