0:00

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported

0:02

by The Sympathizer podcast from HBO. From

0:05

executive producers Park Chan-Wook and Robert

0:07

Downey Jr., The Sympathizer is the

0:09

new HBO Original Limited series based

0:11

on the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel of

0:13

the same name. On

0:15

The Sympathizer podcast, join host Phillip Nguyen

0:17

in conversation with the cast, crew, and

0:19

author Viet Thanh Nguyen as they discuss

0:21

the making of this historic series. Stream

0:24

new episodes of HBO's The Sympathizer,

0:27

Sundays exclusively on Macs, and listen

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to The Sympathizer podcast wherever you

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listen to podcasts. This

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is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a

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co-production of WNYC Studios and The

0:40

New Yorker. Welcome

0:43

to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David

0:45

Remnick. Yes. Dr. Remnick. Sir.

0:48

You really, really look like a doctor. Doesn't he look

0:50

like a doctor? I do. If

0:52

he walks, he's your cardiologist. I'm your cardiologist. You

0:55

would just feel so calm. Would you? Right,

0:57

yes. I'm in good hands. Nothing to

0:59

worry about. Take a few tests. Oh,

1:02

you got the tone. You

1:04

know that voice, or I think you do,

1:06

but for the record, it's Jerry Seinfeld, who

1:08

came by our studios recently so he could

1:11

determine, as my mother once did, that I

1:13

should have been a doctor. So, what's going on

1:15

with you and Melanie? I mean, I

1:17

know you're not getting married. Seinfeld

1:20

was famously the show about nothing, or

1:22

maybe not nothing exactly, but we kind

1:25

of broke up about very small, very

1:27

petty things and the ludicrous amount

1:29

of mental energy we expend on. You know, we

1:31

were having dinner the other night, and she's got

1:33

the strangest habit. She eats her peas one

1:36

at a time. You've never seen anything

1:38

like it. It takes you like an hour to finish them.

1:40

I mean, we've had dinner other times. I've

1:42

seen her eat corn nibblets, but she scooped

1:45

them. She

1:49

scooped the nibblets. Yes. That's

1:52

what was so vexing. and

2:00

it's certainly at the core of Unfrosted, his new

2:02

movie, which takes a

2:04

footnote in culinary history, the

2:06

invention of the Pop-Tart, and

2:08

treats it like an epic national

2:11

battle. Now,

2:13

this isn't Seinfeld's first feature. He

2:15

wrote the animated B-movie, but

2:18

Unfrosted is his debut as a director. How

2:21

did this project, which is hilarious and

2:23

nuts in many ways, and it's

2:25

so funny, and it resonates

2:27

with all kinds of things in the 60s and

2:29

movies about the 60s that people get to,

2:31

how did you decide on this project? COVID.

2:36

You were going out of your mind, weren't you?

2:38

Yeah. And my friend Spike Farris then, the writer

2:40

who wrote the movie, and

2:42

he was the director of the movie, and

2:44

he was the director of the movie, and he was the director of

2:47

the movie, and Spike Farris then, the writer

2:49

who wrote the Soup Nazi episode, we

2:53

used to joke about making

2:55

a movie about the Pop-Tart. It was a joke. The

2:57

Kellogg's Pop-Tart suddenly appeared at a Battle

2:59

Creek, Michigan, which, as you

3:01

serial fans know, is the corporate headquarters of

3:04

Kellogg's in a town I have always wanted

3:06

to visit, because

3:08

it seems like a serial Silicon Valley

3:11

of breakfast super scientists conceiving

3:14

of a frosted, fruit-filled, heatable rectangle in the

3:16

same shape as the box it comes in.

3:20

And with the same nutrition as the box it

3:22

comes in, yeah. I go, there's

3:24

no movie here. He goes, give

3:26

me one meeting. Let's just take the

3:28

two writers that I love from B-movie, Barry

3:31

Martyr and Andy Robin. Just

3:34

the four of us do a Zoom, and

3:36

give me one meeting. And

3:38

Andy Robin says, do

3:40

you remember the scene and the right stuff where

3:43

Jeff Goldblum and Harry Shearer run down the hall

3:45

and they burst into the conference room, and LBJ's

3:47

sitting there, and they go, it's

3:49

called Sputnik. It's

3:52

called Sputnik. We know. Sit

3:54

down. He goes, that's what

3:57

this is. I went, Oh, yeah.,

4:00

And as I was. Sitting

4:03

with For comedy writers who love each

4:05

other's sense of humor, you know the

4:07

first twenty minutes I do a twenty

4:10

minute warmup of this nonsense. What to

4:12

last night was eat tons of was

4:14

you watch, You know and need to

4:17

start laughing and having fun. This is

4:19

how comedy is done. You can't have

4:21

anybody in the room that's not in

4:24

the same. As

4:26

the doesn't have the same

4:28

of brain disaffect. what does

4:30

that mean? Regular people need.

4:33

courtesies, And and respects.

4:36

To. Converse and socialize with them.

4:38

You can't. Say. Hostile.

4:41

Things to them to their face. But comedians

4:43

love that the you don't get offended. no

4:45

no no, there's no offense in the room.

4:47

The offenses if it wasn't funny, that's events

4:49

but never use The the other person is

4:51

never offended, few insult them. Regnum is something.

4:54

As long as it's funny now. Which.

4:56

Usually insulting someone to the faces

4:59

pretty funny assess assess effects of

5:01

about we don't think that there

5:03

is. Much. Value and everything

5:05

else in life. Everything else in life

5:07

is pretty much a nuisance. but if

5:09

you can get a laugh out of

5:11

it, it's worth it. That's the way

5:13

you go through life. You only care

5:15

about laughing and being funny Said describe

5:18

these these meetings to me how they

5:20

went during the course of a to

5:22

however long as they're all the same

5:24

that they start off with fifteen twenty

5:26

minutes of absolute nonsense. There's a lot

5:28

of love. Really vile profanity. I'm. Complaining

5:31

about. Absolutely. Everything and

5:33

anything And then you go. Okay, what will

5:35

we working on yesterday? What was the same?

5:38

What's what are we were we going from

5:40

here and then he starts arrived. But you're

5:42

all time of year in this. Mood.

5:44

Now. And that's how you write her. If

5:47

somebody else walks in the room, every have

5:49

to sort. Of. What he wants.

5:52

yes i know what okay dinners find a

5:54

six that's fine but okay and the after

5:56

you know we could you please leave you

5:58

you experience it is funny you expect as

6:00

work, as effort. 50-50. Yeah.

6:05

It does have to make sense to an audience. That's

6:07

the work. All

6:10

you want to do is be totally insane.

6:12

In the film, you play a marketing executive

6:14

for Kellogg, and everything is set

6:16

in 19... It's

6:18

set in 63. Right. JFK

6:21

is the president. The story centers

6:23

around this race between the Kellogg Company

6:25

and... Post. Post. Which

6:28

is true. And this is another popular

6:30

serial maker. And they're both

6:32

working toward a trip to

6:34

the moon. No. That's right.

6:36

They're working toward the creation of pop talks,

6:38

whether they know it or not. Tell me

6:40

about how that story line originated. Well,

6:43

the story line is the true truth of

6:45

the story, which I have always loved. That

6:47

Post came up with this idea. Kellogg's

6:50

heard about it months before

6:53

they were about to debut it in supermarkets. They

6:55

freaked out. They go, we have to have the

6:57

same thing as them. We have to get there

6:59

before them. We have to make it better

7:01

than them. And that's what we

7:03

came up with. It's the right

7:06

stuff. It's the U.S. versus the Soviet getting

7:08

to put a man on the moon. Now,

7:12

we're of a similar age. We grew up

7:14

on similar breakfast foods. And

7:17

a lot else. And I

7:19

have vague memories of Walter Cronkite, who, by

7:21

the way, has a great role in this

7:23

movie. Yeah, he's

7:25

fantastic. A drunk, insane, Walter

7:28

Cronkite. Kyle Gunnegan created a lot of that

7:30

on the set. Very funny.

7:33

Direct from CBS News in New

7:35

York, this is the CBS Evening

7:37

News with Walter Cronkite. This just

7:39

handed to me some major news

7:42

from the breakfast world. The post-cereal

7:44

company of Battle Creek, Michigan, has

7:46

reportedly invented a shelf-stable, heatable

7:49

fruit pastry breakfast product. Shelf-stable.

7:54

Oh, boy. Did you really

7:56

like Pop-Tarts all that much growing up? Oh,

7:58

yeah. How about now? Really? Yeah, love them.

8:01

That's a good breakfast for you? No,

8:03

I don't eat it for breakfast I eat

8:05

it after a bad show on a Wednesday

8:07

night I see when have you ever had

8:09

a bad show a lot of times?

8:11

I mean to me a bad show is

8:13

I'm gonna do four new pieces tonight if

8:15

three of them tank That's

8:18

a it's a frustrating night. Now.

8:20

You could do for pop tarts what

8:22

Barbie did for Barbie This

8:25

could be a big thing to them Except

8:28

that Kellogg's did not even

8:30

know we were doing this.

8:32

No, no They did not

8:34

we only called them three weeks ago The

8:37

lawyers didn't freak out We

8:42

found a lawyer in the Valley a Guy

8:45

who said could you write us

8:47

a letter saying that this is okay to do

8:50

that we can show to Netflix Yeah, cuz Netflix

8:52

when we pitched them this idea is gonna go

8:54

I assume you've checked this all out legally and

8:56

the clearance is I go, of course we have

8:58

a letter right here the guy from the Valley

9:01

He says it's great. Yeah, he says it's no

9:03

problem. So there's no fee pay to

9:06

Kellogg's or no and no

9:08

permission given or taken No, do

9:10

you think I think you're in big trouble. Do

9:12

you think that Kellogg's would make a movie where

9:15

people lose their lives? Trying

9:17

to invent a pastry or dive

9:19

into dumpsters. Yes Children diving into

9:22

dumpsters looking for the special fruit

9:24

pay. Yeah Are

9:30

you kids okay Garbage

9:38

is it or is it some hot food letting

9:40

in the man is going to have No,

9:44

wait, you have to have it like this Now

9:49

You've got an amazing cast

9:52

here Melissa McCarthy Jim Gaffigan's

9:54

Sarah Cooper Kristen We're Hugh

9:57

Grant and Hugh Grant. Mm-hmm, which He's

10:01

a little famous for being not so easy

10:04

on set. Yeah. Was that your experience? Yeah, oh

10:06

yeah. Yeah. Tell me about that. I

10:08

love, I love this

10:10

man. My

10:13

apologies to all the other people I've met.

10:15

He's my favorite human. You

10:17

granted. Yes, he's my favorite human. Why?

10:20

He's, because his charm and funniness is what

10:22

I dreamed of when I was a kid

10:24

in the 60s, I want to be a

10:27

charming, witty man. That

10:30

never happened. You wanted to be Cary

10:32

Grandin? Yes. Well, you know,

10:35

we, like you say, we grew

10:37

up Muhammad Ali and

10:39

JFK and Sean Connery.

10:42

Those were men. We want to be like them, you know.

10:45

They were all witty and handsome. What

10:47

was it like to work? And had broad shoulders.

10:49

Well, he apparently... And he has all these things.

10:51

He has the broad shoulders, too. He has the

10:54

shoulders, he has the wit. He

10:56

knows how to have fun. He knows how

10:58

to make people put people at ease. But

11:00

a lot of these actors, you know, they're

11:03

very, they're primodontists. And

11:05

he told me he would be. And I go, that's fine. I don't

11:07

care what you want. So right off the bat, he said, I'm going

11:09

to be a pain in the neck. Yeah, yeah. And

11:12

he wasn't? I don't care. What do I

11:14

care? What do you mean? I

11:16

don't care if someone's an asshole if they're

11:18

charming. A

11:20

charming asshole is way better than

11:22

a boring, polite

11:24

person. So how did it play itself out

11:26

on set, for example, him being a charming

11:29

asshole? I say, Hugh, you

11:31

know, in this

11:33

scene, you know, you're wearing these sunglasses.

11:35

And would you be completely

11:38

against the idea of not

11:41

wearing sunglasses in the scene?

11:43

This is a negotiating technique I learned.

11:46

The answer you always want to get

11:48

from your counterpart is no, not yes.

11:53

Because people love to say no, they hate

11:55

to say yes. Saying

11:57

yes makes you feel vulnerable. Saying no

11:59

makes you feel... secure. So you ask

12:01

a question where the answer you want

12:04

is no. Hugh, would it be,

12:06

would you be totally against not

12:08

wearing the glasses? No,

12:10

I wouldn't be totally against it.

12:14

That's the finesse. Yeah, that's the

12:17

finesse. Now, did you enjoy this

12:19

new activity of directing? And with

12:21

these people, when you have Melissa McCarthy

12:24

or Hugh or Peter

12:27

Dinklage, Peter Dinklage directing

12:30

Peter Crichler in a movie. Thank

12:32

you. Yeah. It's like someone saying,

12:35

how would you like to take this Ferrari

12:37

out for a drive? Right. It can do

12:39

anything you ask it to do. Anything.

12:43

That is a lot of fun. I mean, he is

12:45

a thrill. Are

12:48

you a milkman? The

12:50

name's Harry Friendly. And

12:52

you might say, I am the milkman. You

12:56

know the first taste a human being experiences at

12:58

birth? Apple sauce?

13:00

Oh. Milk.

13:05

And in the milk business, we are

13:07

not just part of the American dream.

13:09

We are the white, red, white, and

13:11

blue. We are the cream that rises

13:14

so famously to the top. And

13:16

you, Mr. Cabana, have

13:19

become the annoying white ring that

13:21

sticks to the pot. Jerry,

13:24

you must get any number of ideas for

13:26

films either brought to you or you have.

13:28

No? Never got an idea. That's the only

13:30

idea I've ever had for a film. Really?

13:33

I never get asked to do a film.

13:36

Really? Never. Why the hell would that happen?

13:38

I don't know. When I was

13:40

at DreamWorks and we were casting B-movie,

13:42

this casting director came in and she

13:44

had two cards, a blue card and

13:46

a pink card. On each card were

13:48

the biggest male stars and on the

13:50

pink card were the biggest female stars

13:52

in the business at that time. This

13:54

is 2000s. And we go

13:56

through the names. By the way, there's like 12 names

13:58

on each card. That's it. Right. And

14:01

so we were casting the thing and

14:03

before she leaves I go, let me, can I ask you,

14:05

am I on that blue card?

14:10

And she says no. Nice. And

14:12

I went, why not? She said, because everybody

14:14

knows you won't do it. Was

14:18

she right? Yeah. Well

14:22

Hamlet maybe, but you would, you wouldn't do any

14:24

number of other things if the project was

14:26

done? You have to realize

14:29

if you look at my career, I

14:31

have never succeeded at anything that wasn't

14:33

my material. Not one

14:35

time. I've only done it

14:38

once and it was a huge failure. I

14:40

did Benson in 1980. Yeah.

14:43

And you felt it to be a failure or thought it

14:45

was a critical failure? It was a total failure. Yeah. I

14:48

have to write my own material or

14:50

I stink. I'm

14:55

talking with Jerry Seinfeld. His new film

14:57

is called Unfrosted and will continue

14:59

in just a moment on the New Yorker

15:01

Radio Hour. Hi,

15:20

I'm Roz Chast from The New Yorker.

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The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported

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16:21

supported by The Sympathizer podcast from

16:23

HBO. From executive producers

16:26

Park Chan-Wook and Robert Downey Jr.,

16:28

The Sympathizer is the new HBO original

16:30

limited series based on the Pulitzer Prize-winning

16:32

novel of the same name. On

16:35

The Sympathizer podcast, join host Phillip Nguyen

16:37

in conversation with the cast, crew, and

16:40

author Viet Tanh Nguyen as they discuss

16:42

the making of this historic series. Stream

16:44

new episodes of HBO's The Sympathizer,

16:47

Sundays exclusively on Max, and listen

16:49

to The Sympathizer podcast wherever you

16:51

listen to podcasts. There

16:54

are four questions Jews ask to mark Passover

16:56

every year. This Passover is leading

16:58

many of us to ask more questions, once

17:01

tied to our identity as Jewish

17:03

Americans. I'm Matt Katz, and

17:05

on the next Notes from America, we'll talk

17:07

about hard conversations happening in Jewish communities right

17:09

now, how we can heal our

17:12

divisions, and why this Passover feels different.

17:15

Available wherever you get podcasts. This

17:27

is The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David

17:30

Remnick, and I'm talking today with Jerry Seinfeld.

17:32

I was going to say the comedian

17:34

Jerry Seinfeld, but that feels a little

17:36

New York Timesy, like the renowned physicist

17:38

Albert Einstein. Seinfeld

17:41

co-wrote and directed the new

17:43

film Unfrosted. He's

17:45

not one of those people who had to find

17:47

himself exactly. As a kid, Seinfeld

17:49

fell in love with the comedians on

17:51

television, and he was still in his 20s

17:54

when he got a spot on Johnny Carson's

17:56

Tonight Show. Would you welcome him, please?

17:58

Jerry Seinfeld. Good

18:00

evening, boy, this is so exciting for

18:03

me. I'm so excited to be here.

18:05

After nine seasons of Seinfeld, Jerry quit

18:07

while he was way ahead. He's

18:09

become a kind of professor of

18:11

comedy, continuing to do stand-up and

18:13

shooting the series Comedians in Cars

18:15

Getting Coffee, driving around and

18:18

joking and analyzing comedy with every

18:20

great comic of our time. So

18:22

back to my discussion with Jerry Seinfeld. It's

18:31

possible that you've probably made a dollar

18:33

or two from Seinfeld and

18:36

yet you still work so hard.

18:38

Why? Because

18:41

the only thing in life that's

18:43

really worth having is good

18:46

skill. Good skill is

18:49

the greatest possession. The things

18:51

that money buys are

18:53

fine. They're good. I like

18:56

them. But having a skill, I

18:58

learned this from reading Esquire magazine. They

19:00

did an issue on mastery. Do you

19:02

remember that? I'm surprised.

19:06

You definitely read Esquire. Oh, yeah, of

19:09

course. I loved Esquire in the 60s,

19:11

a magazine for men, remember? I do.

19:13

Yeah. And they did one

19:15

issue. In fact, I got to get this issue. I

19:17

get it on eBay. I'm sure it's there. And

19:19

it was about this

19:22

very Zen Buddhist

19:24

concept. Pursue mastery. That

19:27

will fulfill your

19:29

life. You will feel good. Nothing

19:32

else. I know a lot

19:34

of rich people. So do you. They

19:36

don't feel good as you think they

19:38

should and would. They don't. They're miserable.

19:41

So I work because if

19:44

you don't stand up comedy, if you don't

19:46

do it a lot, you stink. We

19:49

call it a phone. We don't even use it

19:51

as a phone. Nobody's talking on the phone. Once

19:55

they gave you the option, you could talk, you could

19:57

type talking end of that day. It's over. Talking

20:00

is obsolete. It's antiquated. I feel

20:03

like a blacksmith up here sometimes to tell

20:05

you the truth. I

20:07

could text you this whole thing. We can get the hell out of here

20:09

right now. Who did you

20:11

start listening to or watching in comedy

20:13

and say, that's the skill I want

20:16

to learn? Robert Klein

20:18

and Jay Leno were the two

20:20

guys that, and George Carlin, Bill

20:22

Cosby, I loved, but I thought I could

20:24

never be that good. But

20:27

I mean as a kid. You mean like 6, 7? Yeah,

20:30

or junior high school or whatever. I

20:33

mean, Peter Sellers was

20:35

a huge obsession of mine as

20:37

a kid. And there's one line

20:40

in Unfrosted that

20:43

a lot of the producers did not like, and

20:45

they said, you gotta take it out. It's too

20:47

stupid. It really makes no sense at all. And

20:50

I go, but for one second of my

20:52

life, I got to be Peter Sellers. The

20:54

line is at the funeral, and we have

20:57

this elaborate full

20:59

serial honors scene. And

21:02

the widow of – Say who you're burying. We're

21:05

burying Steve Schwinn, who

21:08

lost his life trying to create the pop-tart. What

21:12

is happening? And his wife

21:14

says to me, looking at this insane ceremony,

21:16

and she says, Did you blame him? And

21:19

I go, I don't know. I don't know. Which

21:24

is impossible. You

21:26

can't not know that. Either you

21:29

planned it or you didn't plan it. You

21:31

can't not know. Inspector

21:34

Clouseau would say that. Jerry,

21:38

tell me about being a beginner, just

21:40

a funny kid who wants to take

21:42

the big leap into comedy. The

21:45

leap was so

21:48

terrifying. I don't know

21:50

why, but I had no confidence in

21:52

that I might be

21:54

funny to people that don't know me. And

21:57

I drove to this club, the Golden

21:59

Gate, Golden Lion Pub, 143 West 44th Street,

22:01

no longer. What

22:05

year? I'm

22:08

still at Queens College. And

22:11

they have a audition. I

22:14

think there were just a few people there. And

22:17

I did this joke about being left-handed, and it got

22:19

a laugh. And then they booked me on the... I

22:21

want to hear the joke. Okay.

22:24

The joke is... So I'm

22:26

left-handed. Left-handed people do not like

22:29

that the word left is so often

22:32

associated with negative things. Do

22:34

left feet, left-handed compliment, what are we having

22:36

for dinner, leftovers. You

22:39

go to a party, there's nobody there. Where did everybody go?

22:42

They left. That's pretty cute joke. That's a bad joke.

22:44

That's a good joke. And how did it go

22:46

over? Huge. And... Can

22:49

you remember the feeling? Yeah. And

22:52

the applause. You know

22:54

that scene in the Elton John movie

22:56

when he's at the Troubadour, he

22:58

goes off the ground and the audience comes

23:01

off the ground? I love that scene. That's

23:03

what it felt like. I felt like, oh my God, I'm

23:06

on a plane and I just

23:08

left the ground. I

23:10

just knew from that moment, that's

23:12

it. I now know what I

23:15

will do the rest of my life. That's incredibly

23:17

inspiring and at the same time, huge pressure. Why

23:20

is it pressure? And then have to write more

23:22

jokes and repeat it. The book that got me

23:24

into comedy is a book called The Last Laugh

23:26

by Phil Berger. I read it in high school.

23:30

And there's a joke in there

23:32

that Jimmy Walker told at

23:34

Catch a Rising Star. It's a pouring

23:36

rainy night in Manhattan. He goes on

23:38

stage, he's soaking wet. He

23:41

goes, it is raining so hard

23:43

out there, I just saw Superman getting

23:45

into a cab. And

23:47

I read that and I go, how

23:50

in the world can a

23:52

brain come up with an idea like that? I

23:54

thought that was such, I still love that joke.

23:57

I love that joke. But I go, how do

23:59

you think about it? that. I didn't

24:01

know how, but when I did the left

24:04

thing, I went, oh, there's

24:07

a guy in there that knows how to do it. And

24:10

he's going to now work his ass off for

24:13

the rest of my life. So you became disciplined

24:15

right away. Not

24:17

right away. It was after

24:19

I saw a comedian do a couple

24:21

of tonight shows and get

24:24

bounced that I realized, who

24:26

was that? I don't want to mention the name. He

24:30

went on, he did well. Second

24:32

time he went on, he did less well.

24:34

Third time he struggled and they never had

24:36

him back. And I went, oh, now

24:39

I get how this racket works. This is a

24:41

writer's game. If you

24:43

can write, you succeed. If you can't, you

24:46

will not make it. This performing,

24:48

being funny on stage, that's great. Any

24:51

comedian can be funny on stage, but

24:54

the bullets are the writing. Not

24:57

long ago I was watching on YouTube, not

25:00

for the first time and maybe for

25:02

the thousandth, Rodney Dangerfield's performances on the

25:05

Tonight Show, which are

25:09

insanely good and like

25:11

filled with rocket fuel. Yeah. Well,

25:14

when I was born, a doctor told my mother I did

25:16

all I could, but he pulled through anyway. I

25:22

don't get no respect from anyone. Well, last week my

25:24

house was on fire. My wife told the kids, be

25:27

quiet, you wake up, Danny. So

25:29

he's a great writer and he's invented

25:31

this character, which is himself times 11, I guess.

25:36

How did you invent how you wanted to

25:38

be on stage? It's

25:40

like, it's like sculpting. Sculpting

25:43

is removing everything that isn't the

25:45

sculpture you want to make. You're

25:48

not adding, you're removing. Stone sculpture,

25:50

not clay. So

25:54

when you do a joke and it gets

25:56

a laugh and something inside you doesn't feel

25:58

quite right, I'm You

26:01

don't do that joke. You do the

26:03

jokes that you feel connect to

26:05

your anger,

26:07

your attitude, your personality.

26:13

Success in comedy is very

26:15

much conducting.

26:18

So the face, the voice,

26:20

the body, the joke. When

26:23

all of us are working together, it

26:25

hits, bang. You just feel it. You feel

26:28

it like hitting a baseball on the button.

26:31

And when one of them is a little off,

26:34

it's not there. What

26:36

do you think about the difference between doing

26:40

a comedy film for Netflix and

26:43

doing A Night at the

26:45

Beacon? It's the same thing, and yet it's not. The

26:49

only similarity is your sense of humor is

26:51

an essential tool. After that,

26:53

it's all different. No

26:56

similarity. A Night at the Beacon to

26:58

me is like being a great, if you're a great jazz

27:00

player, and people come in and they

27:02

want to hear you play. And you're going on

27:04

and I'm going, I know this instrument. I'm

27:06

good at it. Let's

27:09

all enjoy the playing. But

27:11

for the jazz musician or

27:13

any musician, they want to hear around midnight or born

27:15

to run or whatever it is again and again and

27:18

again, do you feel that's okay

27:20

for jokes or is there constant pressure to make it

27:22

new and make it new all the time? We don't

27:24

have enough time for that conversation. That would

27:26

take another hour. What do you mean?

27:28

It's a heavy conversation. It's

27:30

a constant issue

27:33

in the comedy world. Everybody

27:35

has a different opinion about it. Well, give

27:37

me the short version. The

27:42

short version is there's no answer. If

27:45

I love a bit that somebody does and

27:49

I go and they do the bit, I love it. You

27:52

see them after the show, they go, you did

27:55

the peanut bit. I

27:58

love the peanut bit. I know

28:00

I'm trying to get that in my act and do something

28:02

new and go no, I love that bit Who's

28:05

right? There's no answer. Mm-hmm. There's

28:07

no answer I think if you go see

28:09

a comedian and he does some great

28:12

stuff that you know and a bunch of stuff that

28:14

you don't know The audience is

28:16

happy. I think comedians now

28:18

try so hard to be all new

28:20

all the time I think

28:23

the quality suffers because none of us are

28:25

really that good Chris Rock

28:27

and I have determined that that a Great

28:31

comedian working his ass off

28:33

his entire career writes two

28:35

good hours the

28:37

rest is Well, you how

28:39

many specials have you done for Netflix? too

28:42

and And I don't think

28:44

I'll do another one really. Yeah, well Again,

28:47

we don't have time for that These

28:50

are gigantic subjects in comedy But I

28:52

won't I won't put it out there

28:54

unless I think it's of a

28:56

certain quality and I doubt I could get to that

28:59

In the time I have left and I

29:01

don't like old people either Even

29:04

though I'm 70. I don't like old people. You're

29:06

about to be 70, right? Whatever. How you feeling about

29:08

that? I don't care Really? Yeah,

29:11

you look good. Thanks. You feel good. Yeah,

29:13

that's it and you're working. Yeah When

29:16

you say you don't like old men, you mean that in

29:18

a kind of Friars Club sort of way No,

29:20

I don't like old people period They

29:26

don't look good You

29:28

everything's going Everything's deteriorating. I

29:30

don't want to see this if

29:33

you want to hang around fine, but we're

29:35

moving on to younger people Yeah, I feel

29:37

like God is like I'm

29:40

with you up to about 38. Mm-hmm. If

29:42

you want to stay you can stay

29:44

but I'm moving on Did

29:47

you not like old comedians? No,

29:49

I love old comedians I do

29:51

because they just get better This

29:54

is the great blessing the on

29:56

the other side of the material torture

29:59

on the other side of that the blessing of it,

30:01

you just get better and better. Tell

30:03

me how you deal with the way

30:07

to the world or the serious aspects

30:10

of the world way on

30:12

you and how that affects comedy. Nothing

30:18

really affects comedy. People

30:21

always need it. They need it

30:25

so badly and they

30:27

don't get it. It used to be

30:29

you would go home at the end of the day most people would

30:31

go, oh Cheers is on, oh

30:33

MASH is on, oh Mary Tyler Moore

30:35

is on, all the family's on. You

30:38

just expect it. There'll be some funny stuff we

30:40

can watch on TV tonight. Well guess what? Where

30:42

is it? Where is it? This

30:46

is the result of the extreme

30:48

left and PC crap and people

30:50

worrying so much about offending other

30:53

people. Now

30:56

they're going to see stand-up comics because we

30:58

are not policed by anyone.

31:00

The audience polices us. We know when we're

31:03

off track. We know instantly

31:05

and we adjust to it instantly

31:08

but when you write a script and

31:10

it goes into four or five different

31:12

hands, committees, groups, here's our thought about

31:14

this joke. Well that's the end of

31:16

your comedy. Have you had that experience?

31:22

No. Because isn't that what curb is

31:24

all about? Yeah, Larry was grandfathered

31:26

in. He's old enough

31:29

that I don't have to observe those rules

31:31

because I started before you made those rules.

31:34

We did an episode of the

31:36

series in the 90s where Kramer

31:39

decides to start a business of

31:42

having homeless pull rickshaws because

31:45

as he says they're

31:47

outside anyway. What

31:51

about the homeless? Can we worry

31:55

about them later? To pull the

31:57

rickshaw. They do

31:59

have an intimate knowledge of the street always

32:01

walking around the city why not just

32:03

strapped something to them now

32:07

that's the first sensible idea i've heard all

32:12

do you think i could get that episode on the

32:15

air today but you think larry

32:18

is god grandfathered in and

32:20

there could be no thirty

32:22

five-year-old version right

32:26

left larry was thirty five he couldn't

32:28

get away with that is like the

32:30

watermelon stuff and palestinian chicken

32:32

and you know hb

32:36

o knows that's what people come here for they're

32:40

not smart enough or uh...

32:45

to figure out uh... you

32:47

know how do

32:49

we do this now do we take the heat

32:53

you know or just

32:55

not be funny we would write

32:57

a different joke with kramer and

32:59

the rickshaw today we wouldn't do that

33:01

joke we come up with another joke

33:04

they move the gates like like in

33:06

the in the scheme yeah culture

33:09

the gates are moving your job is

33:11

to be agile and clever enough that

33:13

wherever they put the gates i'm

33:16

gonna make the gate you think this

33:18

is going away now this is

33:20

what you're describing his pc is is

33:22

kind of meeting lightly slightly

33:25

a slight movement how do you see it uh...

33:27

with certain comedians now people are

33:29

having fun with them stepping over

33:31

the line and that's all

33:33

laughing about it and uh...

33:37

but again it's the stand-ups that really have the

33:39

freedom to do it because no one else gets

33:41

the blame if it doesn't go down well he

33:43

can he or she can take all the blame

33:45

themself who the young ones that you like uh...

33:49

nate bargadze i love uh...

33:53

ronnie chang i love uh...

33:57

uh... brian simpson really funny Um

34:02

Mark Norman really funny Sam

34:05

moral really funny. Do you ever go to clubs? Yeah,

34:07

I go all the time I

34:09

don't go and sit there and pay for two

34:12

drinks and watch and go this guy's fantastic. I

34:15

Go to work out my own stuff Jerry

34:20

for unfrosted you actually wrote a song

34:22

titled sweet morning heat. Mm-hmm. You wrote

34:25

the lyrics with Jimmy Fallon No,

34:27

I wrote it with Mark Ronson. Ah,

34:29

Jimmy sang it By

34:31

the way, who who can

34:34

sing? Yeah, he and Megan trainers sang

34:36

the tune and mark and and Andrew

34:38

Watt produced it, right? Right, but

34:41

David when I walked in this studio and I had

34:43

this piece of paper where I wrote like I spent

34:45

hours on it because You

34:48

know, there's certain lines. You can sing certain lines. You

34:50

can't I don't know anything really about singing and

34:53

I said to Mark I wrote

34:55

these lyrics and I started reading them and he nodded

34:58

his head and it was a long pause and he went That's

35:00

not bad. Oh my god. That

35:02

was one of the greatest moments

35:04

of my life. It's not bad Yeah, he said

35:07

that's not bad. Yeah, I went really he said

35:09

yeah, that's not bad. We could we could do

35:11

some of those I don't know if

35:13

you could make out the lyrics when you watch the

35:15

movie. I haven't seen it in the movie That's why

35:17

I'm asking. Would you like to sing us a little

35:19

bit? No, I can't sing. Can you recite it? Why?

35:24

I Share

35:30

a sign so thank you so much Jerry

35:46

Seinfeld is the director and star

35:48

of unfrosted and he worked on a

35:50

TV show called If I

35:52

can think of it Seinfeld, this is the

35:54

New Yorker radio hour stick around This

36:24

week, college campuses all over the

36:26

country have erupted in protest, with

36:28

students arrested by the dozens. On

36:32

our next episode, we'll dive deep into

36:34

the response to the war in Gaza

36:36

on university campuses. I'll talk

36:38

with faculty, a former college president, and

36:40

student journalists who are covering the unrest

36:43

on their own campuses. It

36:45

has been a tense time, and while

36:47

there have been unambiguously hateful incidents,

36:50

both against Jewish students and

36:52

against Muslim or Arab students or pro-Palestine

36:54

activists, it's not clear

36:56

to what extent those represent a systemic

36:59

problem. And there

37:01

is no one narrative. In some

37:03

respects, I think Harvard's campus has actually been

37:05

comparable to or even calmer than that

37:08

of many other universities that are also

37:10

experiencing protests and that are also experiencing

37:13

pressure as they try to navigate this

37:16

moment. That's

37:18

all next time on the New Yorker Radio Hour. The

37:25

New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production

37:27

of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

37:29

Our theme music was composed and performed

37:32

by Meryl Garbus of TuneYarts with additional

37:34

music by Alexis Cuadrado and Jared Paul.

37:37

This episode was produced by Max

37:39

Bolton, Adam Howard, Kala Leah, David

37:42

Krasnau, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared

37:44

Paul, and Alicia Zuberman, with

37:46

guidance from Emily Botin and assistance

37:48

from Michael May, David Gable,

37:50

Alex Parrish, Victor Guan, and

37:53

Alejandra Dequez. The New

37:55

Yorker Radio Hour is recorded and played by the

37:57

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