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0:30

hi i'm molly john past no

0:32

relationship to kim jong one

0:34

i'm a left wing pundit the writer

0:36

at the atlantic comes out and i'm andy

0:38

we the former fox news and cnn

0:41

in july and guy and current cable news conscientious

0:43

objector that i producer jessica added

0:46

i'm here to make for six of them too far off

0:48

the rails wears a smart

0:51

and for the wisest and plenty of people and

0:53

science and me and politics and

0:55

help make what's happening today

0:57

the world , been turned upside

0:59

down and on the new abnormal will talk

1:01

about the people who got us into this mess and

1:03

i will hopefully get ourselves out of put

1:05

a great show we have today tix

1:07

david edwards was of course of business investigators

1:10

new york times is the author of the new books servants

1:13

of the damned giant law firms dowd

1:15

from and the corruption of justice is

1:17

good shots was all about his new book never

1:19

had such never t elliot morris who the data

1:21

journalists and us for a spot at the economist

1:24

and author of strength in numbers how polls

1:26

work and why we need them all about them we're

1:28

discuss suppose that's happening around the been terms

1:31

but first puts have some thought is

1:33

molly johnson's we talk a lot

1:36

about something the

1:37

had a the republican party but some

1:39

of a news theory that maybe tucker

1:41

carlson is actually that

1:43

the republican nominee oh

1:45

and i will bad they sat by

1:48

parker girls and says

1:50

that on july twenty six

1:52

would show remember is like two months ago

1:55

listen saying that for myself as much as for

1:57

anyone says i liked it isn't it

1:59

was like to live that a lot more known as martha's

2:01

vineyard as begging for more diverse the why

2:04

not send my goods they are huge numbers since

2:06

he is that of the republican party that is exactly

2:09

what mr rhonda santas dead

2:11

last night sending says migrants

2:14

to martha's vineyard on a plane in

2:17

the hopes of winning the republican

2:19

presidential primary discuss

2:21

oh first of all i sort of white your siri

2:24

i think you can sort of split it i think

2:26

you could say that tucker carlson

2:28

is maybe the the head of the republican

2:30

party for policy yes

2:33

and trump is the head of the republican party for

2:35

sort of the a heartbeat already

2:38

read for priming for crime

2:41

here sixty cents and it's sort of makes

2:43

sense because descent is sort of wants

2:45

to be sort of diffusion candidate

2:47

here for a specific

2:50

and you know he likes to present as smarter

2:53

than trump and a

2:55

scene or alternative to trump which is not

2:57

but i'm talking about how he likes to present it

2:59

so yeah i kind of like your theory

3:01

if we split it that way i remember

3:04

we talked about you know the fact that

3:06

they were talking about passing the immigrants

3:08

to northern cities and stuff like that it we sorta

3:10

joked about a we were like all the image pa be

3:12

happy about it's and

3:15

which is probably true but it's also

3:17

not sunday i mean i'm

3:19

hard pressed i have not a lawyer

3:22

by just feels like kidnapping committee

3:24

decides on me i'm trafficking and

3:26

your children involved in this bread and

3:28

they're not feeding them and mean snow aids

3:30

is just gross is what it is and

3:33

we've now got it feels like we've got to

3:35

santas in florida and abbott in texas

3:37

sort of competing to see who can be the biggest

3:39

asshole and and it's sort of feels

3:41

like that's part of what this is about is that

3:43

descent is did just as sort of earth

3:45

you know feeding off i'm greg abbott

3:48

and wanting to make it clear that he's

3:50

got the smallest it in town

3:53

it's gross on every level except

3:55

for the response by the

3:57

people in martha's vineyard

3:59

these people who by the way we're as far as i

4:02

can tell our asylum seekers

4:04

yeah it's actually not illegal to

4:06

seek asylum no not at all right

4:08

they were doing what conservatives say

4:10

they want done which is you follow the

4:12

rules so they were following

4:14

the rules and you know the conservative

4:17

retort to that is that the rules

4:19

suck at and joe biden blah

4:21

blah blah whatever but

4:24

regardless they were following the rules

4:26

and dare reward for that

4:29

was getting thrown on a plane in

4:31

texas that then stopped in florida

4:33

and and stopped in south carolina and then ended

4:35

up in martha's vineyard and again

4:38

sounds like kidnapping to me they were not told

4:40

where they were going i don't even think they knew where

4:42

they were when they landed now they were

4:44

told their one and seat senator

4:46

julie and see earth said the planes

4:49

originated san antonio texas there

4:51

to be part of a larger campaign to divert modern

4:53

from for they'd keep it just like the reverse

4:56

freedom rise the nineteen sixties is

4:58

it ever is a cruel ruse

5:00

that is manipulating families who are seeking a better

5:02

life no one should capital as under difficult

5:05

circumstances that these families are and and

5:07

contorting that for the purpose of adapt that

5:09

moment i mean it is like you

5:11

know what i think is so moving

5:13

about this is

5:15

but we're serve breakfast this morning by the parish

5:18

and serve lunch by the school system we are community

5:20

that helps one another and you can see it here

5:22

eel i mean nothing these are upset today

5:25

when i was reading it will actually read at last i was

5:27

this my great grandparents kim's is

5:29

contrary like that's how it

5:31

works bright and these are people

5:34

just like the rest of us i mean they didn't

5:36

eat all day they got there they were told

5:38

they were gonna have you know the key and new people

5:40

are taking care of mom and i feel like it's to such

5:42

it's good example of

5:44

like you know this is what we're

5:46

supposed to be do i am sorry i'm

5:48

welling up know you're absolutely right and

5:50

at that's what i was gonna talk about

5:52

before i died when i started to say

5:54

this is so gross except for and then i

5:56

just got sidetracked by the bow gross

5:58

part it is but i'm hm for the

6:00

response of the people in

6:02

martha's vineyard who just amazing

6:05

and fantastic and just what

6:07

a stark contrast to

6:09

the descent is descent is the world and

6:11

look i have no idea what the party

6:13

affiliation is of these people in martha's vineyard

6:16

martha's vineyard tends to deliver

6:17

which is why the santa sent

6:19

them now

6:20

why i just don't want to assume and i don't want

6:22

to say look at these democrats i do think

6:24

it's safe to assume that the people helping the immigrants

6:26

are not part of the trump wing of the republican

6:29

party but you know i think

6:31

that's fair know and it really is a stark

6:33

contrast and sort of like if you want

6:35

that there may not be a better example

6:38

of the differences of of the sort of to

6:40

america as the trump to santas abbott america

6:42

and and the america of

6:45

the actual people who are

6:47

carrying an empathetic and don't

6:49

you know don't hate people because of their

6:51

skin color or because of how they arrived

6:53

in this country it's a beautiful example

6:55

of that i think and one that

6:58

i don't think it would be bad for the democrats

7:00

to use between now

7:02

and november and between now and twenty

7:04

twenty four and between now and eternity

7:07

because that's how long as she likes the trump

7:09

wing of the republican party's gonna be in control

7:11

of that party well , don't

7:13

know because it's possible that this trump

7:16

party said there's a civil war

7:18

and the republican party and

7:20

enough trump keeps losing eventually

7:23

republican donors want one of fund and anymore

7:25

and nods i think what needs to happen

7:28

in order to get normal democracy back

7:31

at that's my hope anyway it

7:33

yet know my smile to i just

7:35

worry that it's not i did see

7:37

i saw funny joke i wish i could remember he said

7:39

it was are basically

7:41

that these migrants

7:44

were more welcoming martha's vineyard than alan

7:46

dershowitz yes well as a

7:48

nicer and into any

7:50

crime so yes it is well there

7:52

yes that yes but i did supporting

7:55

or so going from this unforced error

7:57

of rhonda santas highlighting

7:59

the people

7:59

martha's vineyard humanity

8:02

and ability to take care of others

8:04

to another earth incredible

8:07

unforced error from

8:09

one senator from south carolina

8:11

lindsay beauregard

8:14

now his middle name our got lazy

8:17

beauregard glance aggressively born

8:19

on his shirt grant tales lindsey

8:22

graham south carolina such

8:24

a friend of mine who's a straight his report on

8:26

i said what the fuck is lindsay graham think games

8:28

they don't control the senate they don't control

8:31

the house he's putting up this fails

8:33

there's no chance of them winning and abortion

8:35

as polling very badly for republicans

8:38

and you have people my masters

8:40

scrubbing at from their website what

8:42

the fuck is he thinking and my friend

8:44

sad she has all these anti choice

8:46

supporters who want more from him and

8:48

he's terrified of prime

8:49

the town and again that

8:52

is the only way this makes sense because

8:54

otherwise the says otherwise he says work

8:56

the provided that sounds a good analysis

8:58

it also i think you can expanded into see that lindsey

9:00

graham seems to spend his political life

9:03

terrified yes you know he's terrified

9:05

of trump he's terrified of

9:08

voters not thinking geez magda enough

9:10

so with between add and sort of having

9:12

been have no sold to speak of

9:14

he just goes with whatever he

9:16

thinks is right at the moment but

9:19

as you pointed out the the interesting

9:21

thing is that towards the important

9:23

thing years that he's wrong and we've seen

9:25

this is the republicans are pissed at him

9:27

rise in won't support their

9:29

of course for the most part with with

9:31

some rare exceptions who are

9:33

actually like hey we said we wanted

9:36

a voice in to go back to the states so

9:39

that's where it should be at

9:41

least knows few people

9:43

are honest what you

9:45

have from have bunch of other republicans

9:47

is they're not mad about the abortion

9:49

ban that's what they want they're mad about the timing

9:52

right when and

9:54

you for your new have my pencil

9:56

say that they want to

9:58

i do have federal boy

9:59

ban and

10:00

they can win the presidency but i just

10:02

since we're talking about lindsay beauregard

10:05

grams peter baker i'm susan glasser

10:07

have a new book out called the divider

10:09

inside a lot of pretty interesting

10:12

stuff in it one of

10:14

these one of by same read

10:16

parts the is that lindsey graham's

10:19

call donald trump a lie a mother

10:21

fucker but also a lot

10:23

of fun to hang out the next what you want

10:25

in a president i mean he's a

10:27

fun i also use align

10:29

mother fact it's a funny quotes and

10:32

whatever but it also gets to sort

10:34

of like every republican knows this the

10:36

all know he's a line motherfucker yeah and

10:39

just as they all know that the

10:41

you know ted cruz knows the election wasn't stolen

10:43

marco rubio knows the election was as they all

10:45

know except louie gohmert louie

10:47

gohmert does not know what he doesn't know

10:50

surgery louie gohmert

10:52

doesn't know is an evergreen has his

10:55

has his so louie gohmert and

10:57

the marjorie telegrams there in a separate class

10:59

but i'm talking about that the kevin mccarthy

11:01

is and the ted cruz's and whatever

11:03

they all know and they choose to

11:05

go along with this and they choose to

11:07

sort of the know shrug their shoulders

11:10

and be like i would you going to do is just

11:12

as climbs yet they're all enablers

11:15

of these even if they're not themselves

11:17

complicit in all of the crimes

11:20

they are enablers of the crimes the

11:22

again that's why we say you know that

11:24

that donald trump is the heartbeat of the republican

11:27

party because all of these people

11:29

are too cowardly to do

11:31

anything about it and so they did

11:33

to shrug their shoulders and say well he's really

11:35

fun guy he gary lies all

11:38

the time and he commits crimes but

11:40

really fun guy they're fun clients

11:43

yeah successfully for a he's a fun

11:45

loving criminal says his leg

11:47

he his to my favorite by to

11:49

bands is listed

11:52

as he gets married a lot

11:55

know nothing other than that

11:58

he said in the

11:59

cause he said and that

12:02

were very disparaging about nancy pelosi

12:04

slugs and other women slugs which

12:06

again leads me to this idea that these

12:08

people really are like i mean

12:11

it is have an implanted wag latest

12:14

you're really gonna go down this road

12:16

of lag going after people

12:18

they're lox are we talking about trump or

12:20

or graham here

12:21

we could give trump and also

12:23

you do see his dad i'm nancy

12:25

pelosi know she has a winning

12:27

issue on her hands right season

12:30

see mocked republicans for their stances

12:32

on abortion saying there those in the party

12:35

who think life begins at the candlelight

12:37

dinner the night oh her were

12:40

in yet another situation where the basis

12:43

to keep the base the party has to

12:45

move the so far to the right that they the only

12:47

you made the people that they read

12:50

to vote for them and it's working and we're seeing

12:52

it because republicans are getting annoyed and i saw

12:54

marco rubio you know he was asked

12:56

about it a complete abortion ban he was like

12:59

the democrats are these demons these demons

13:01

talk about them talked about how they want

13:03

abortions to be up until the moment of

13:05

birth and blah blah blah and it's

13:08

like they are so defensive on this issue

13:10

they need to pay as they know

13:12

their

13:12

grad you know they absolutely need to

13:14

be because they are not you know

13:17

regardless of how you these and seal about

13:19

abortion if you're anti choice or pro

13:21

choice they are out of step with

13:23

the country on this one so

13:26

just as it as a pure naked political

13:28

thing they are on the defensive

13:31

right now in a really really bad way

13:34

and they're running scared running don't like

13:36

saying that what the court did

13:38

good for democrats i just as sheath

13:40

that sort of so it's bad for everyone

13:43

and you know exactly what

13:44

having into go home to wait to see their

13:46

baby is gonna die and when they're

13:48

going to die so they can habits you know i

13:50

mean this this is completely crazy situation

13:53

and terrible and people don't like it and more

13:55

importantly i do want to say

13:57

i think that marco rubio

13:59

is the way

13:59

most and most miserable saturday

14:03

like you so fucking miserable

14:05

you've never seen anyone who is

14:07

more just like like me

14:10

and honestly who cares because he sucks but

14:12

like i mean you just every

14:14

time they talked to him every time he tweets

14:17

yeah you could just see like this is a person

14:19

for whom from one

14:22

a crush him and now continues

14:24

to ruin his life you know i

14:26

think that's right i mean you know ted cruz

14:28

has just who also knows

14:30

that everything he that comes out

14:32

of his own mouth is absolute garbage

14:34

but he seems to have and arrange that and

14:37

that's you know but look he comes from the podcast

14:39

world and that's what we do exist so

14:41

you can't blame him for that

14:43

but ah ha but i dunno i do agree with you

14:46

with rubio because he does

14:48

seem deep down he still

14:50

knows that everything he saying is

14:52

is not true and that everything he's doing

14:54

is bad and and

14:57

, probably deep down he's not fat person

14:59

which again i don't feel sorry for him because he's

15:01

chosen chosen to himself

15:03

he's chosen to act like that person not and

15:05

that's all that all so i'm not

15:08

defending him or excusing him in the land

15:10

if you had to choose between like a rubio on a cruise

15:12

the one who is lifting his head

15:15

up from the sink and staring in the mirror going

15:17

who am i yeah is rubio

15:19

it's not career question cruises

15:21

like you're a good looking bastards

15:24

yeah just

15:26

like or and starts doing like a joke or laugh

15:28

joke something laugh hot

15:30

wolverine yeah

15:33

where as a mark i was

15:35

like oh my god i are

15:37

you know how to do you really want to riyadh

15:39

record call want partner or a calling

15:42

him harboring oh

15:45

wolverine you know this

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is a player and important flair for don't

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call me out of context and get by

15:52

way i don't know that wolverine was like a comics

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reference or the animal reference to

15:57

hear that weird busy weird thirty

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four

15:59

luckily i mean my entire

16:02

to just say wolverine justice a hot move

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david

19:01

enteric as a business investigator at the new york

19:04

times as well as the author of the new book servants

19:06

of the damned giant law firms donald

19:09

trump and the corruption of justice welcome

19:12

t new abnormal david

19:14

answer having the same time to me about how you

19:16

decided to even write this book because

19:19

you kind of come from finance right

19:21

yeah i i've been writing about business and finance

19:24

for twenty years which

19:26

is terrifying no don't say

19:28

twenty years because that makes us all seem old

19:30

okay well i feel old when

19:34

you're younger than just the and i fear

19:36

not allowed to feel

19:36

i'm on i'm sorry i feel young

19:39

the assembly is exactly yeah

19:41

and so i've been covering the stuff for a

19:43

long time or a median amount of time

19:45

depending on your perspective it basically for every

19:47

big business scandal that i've written

19:49

about over the years there's been one or

19:51

more as giant cooper

19:54

law firms lurking in the background

19:56

and avoids i'm fascinated by the rules

19:58

the day

19:59

in helping companies and was shield

20:02

themselves from the fallen from the scandals

20:04

and also the way the that these lot of

20:06

besides the media including

20:09

nytimes me to it really

20:11

plant stories and spin things

20:13

behind the scenes and it occurred to me a one

20:15

point that i've never

20:17

written the investigation about

20:20

a big laugh madrid montessori of other the

20:22

clients the law firms represented but i know i

20:24

never really dug into how these loved ones actually

20:26

operate or the powers that they wield knives

20:29

and incident to do that and side

20:31

the looking for a vehicle loop easily as

20:33

a big loss of focus on that would have

20:35

an interesting narrative arc for a book

20:37

treatment and and twenty twenty

20:40

i began to realize that

20:42

one law firm jones day was

20:44

deeply and messed with trump world

20:46

and vertices go mad max's

20:49

of the to interest of mine off i went

20:51

super interesting interesting one and

20:54

now when people and nonsense and looks like this

20:56

one seems to from your sort

20:58

of you new stuff superficially and then

21:00

you got into it what did

21:02

you find psychologically in your understanding

21:05

of the law firm

21:07

or of test lawyers and gen

21:09

our i would see like when you read a book you have

21:11

assorted sea change so i'm curious

21:14

what sort of see changes you from

21:16

getting all this information to the urban

21:18

cyber up in his family my dad was

21:20

a lawyer and guidance from a very early

21:22

age instilled in me this view

21:24

of the law and the legal practice

21:27

as this majestic then with

21:29

for which he had a lot of reverence a meditative

21:31

i'd grown stated as reporters

21:33

tend to be com as

21:35

they cover this of i still really didn't have

21:38

any clear conception of will actually

21:40

went on and said these law firm they have had an inkling

21:42

bad there was some dirty

21:44

tactics the reuse them aggressive tactics

21:46

that were used but i do i really had

21:49

to last a clear insight

21:51

into how the friends operated and kind of

21:53

how's the legal industry gone from becoming

21:56

something that was this grammar and so

21:58

procession that lawyers the police

22:00

officers they poured into this

22:03

enormous a multibillion dollar

22:05

industry that was

22:07

i start focusing on money above all else

22:09

or i learned a lot about

22:12

the inner workings of these firms and was really surprised

22:14

to see how not only are they often

22:16

really aggressive working on behalf

22:19

of clients and is sometimes pushing

22:21

the envelope in ways that struck

22:23

me as really can have an appropriate

22:25

but also they act that way with their employees

22:27

to at times like came across a number of instances

22:30

mississauga sometimes day but i'm sure

22:32

that there are many other it's similar instances

22:34

and other be law firms were never deploying

22:36

the same time smash knows hardball tactics

22:39

and usually were reserved when they're gonna buttons plaintiffs

22:41

they were doing that with employees to and people

22:43

who had it is labor disputes

22:46

with the from people who were uncomfortable

22:48

miss some of the things from was doing in different parts

22:50

of the world and the lawyers at

22:52

don't say the top of a senior partners would come

22:54

down with a ton of bricks or little or no

22:56

way as , bunch of them and

22:59

they felt steamrolled knew it was have an interest

23:01

in parallel i thought with the way

23:03

that many people that go up

23:05

against offerings i don't say and

23:07

up the on afterwards so what you're saying

23:10

is that thousand princes with else else

23:15

every sanders and sanders market

23:18

, this time

23:21

john grisham this definitely a has

23:24

a pretty good sense of happens it's worth

23:26

ten bears and frankly i was inspired

23:28

by weight was really funny

23:31

to see more i mean it's not

23:33

every not really not like they're murderers

23:36

behind the scenes of people didn't adapt meant

23:38

it wasn't that long ago that the legal profession

23:41

would have in general many murders

23:43

and wouldn't really had

23:45

he fears visceral negative

23:47

reaction to me or anyone else reference

23:50

been illegal industry they

23:52

didn't regard themselves as being part of an industry

23:54

and that sort of the scenes in a very

23:57

the abrupt manner and forty or fifty years

23:59

ago and

23:59

the

24:00

which led to nice law

24:03

firms i grew bigger and bigger and more

24:05

and more cutthroat in their pursuit of profit

24:07

and is not like they're running for

24:10

is not truly out of a john grisham

24:12

poker movie and there are people running around

24:14

killing each other but there

24:16

are the notion that lawyers

24:18

should be public spirited

24:21

and doing everything in that

24:23

time as authors of the court i think has and

24:26

in many senses vanished and

24:28

it you see this with the way

24:30

that the three

24:33

witnesses sometimes opposing

24:35

parties they're going up against federal judges

24:37

sometimes and their own employees a lot

24:39

of the time as and finance really it was it was

24:41

israel sobering for me to get said

24:44

say and of listen personal view

24:46

of what was happening

24:47

i mean it's just so interest then

24:49

how did these people get involved in from

24:51

from because i feel like one of the

24:53

things i saw was that i

24:56

was so surprise that people

24:58

i considered said think of themselves as an enormous

25:01

snobs i did did

25:03

the up and trump world a that as a living

25:05

in the joneses history's very briefly

25:07

is that it's was founded in cleveland

25:10

in the eighty in eighty nineties

25:12

and for most of his existence it

25:14

was a law firm representing

25:17

big companies and including many in the midwest

25:19

but not really on for the country and it began

25:21

the i think seems and as it took on

25:24

more and more aggressive clients

25:26

so it's one of their biggest client or there's

25:28

been rjr the tobacco company and jones

25:30

day deployed is extraordinarily

25:33

aggressive tactics to protect

25:35

the client and defend not lawsuits from

25:37

people who had been harmed

25:39

by cigarettes and in some data that mans

25:41

really they're they're they're from antlers

25:44

became an official industry

25:46

spokesman and worse helping spread

25:48

the same this information about the dangers

25:51

of nicotine and tobacco and

25:53

protect the industry itself was doing and so

25:55

this is so there's a big corporate law firm

25:57

and and about ten years ago

26:00

here's our it started developing a

26:02

bit more of a taste for autism the

26:04

people at a top of the from we're

26:06

by and large pretty far right

26:08

conservatives and on twenty four team they

26:10

decide they would actually start a new practice

26:13

with in the form of the was focused on helping

26:15

us and republicans men alexis

26:17

i was not something they previously been done to they hired

26:19

this team of hearts out republican

26:22

lawyers are insulting don mcgee and

26:24

and it one of the first clients that donegan

26:27

brought on when he arrives it's on stay in early

26:29

twenties in was the trump presidential

26:31

campaign which at the time no one was taken seriously

26:34

and man from again i think

26:36

saw trump who really

26:38

was not burdened with

26:40

strong views major issues of

26:43

race asian man as

26:45

mcgann saw trump as trump

26:47

as of an empty vessel the is he

26:50

didn't gain traction in the rubble and primaries

26:52

that mcgann could use him as

26:54

and vehicle to achieve some of his long

26:56

sought emissions

26:58

the thing and that you and not the only person

27:00

to see trump that way a lot of smart

27:02

the ball hope that they could thirty

27:04

years sam as a figurehead

27:07

for their own agenda he and as that's right

27:09

it was a a parent daring babies

27:11

from more than than it

27:13

looks like trump was not going

27:15

to really gain traction we use the front runner

27:17

but then it wasn't until he started winning a bunch of primers

27:20

the people be and really take them seriously and

27:22

that point mcgann and jones day

27:24

overall than doubled down on him

27:26

and they started using the law

27:29

firm and the law firms headquarters

27:31

and lovers lawyers to help

27:33

trump build up support and

27:35

credibility among the conservative

27:38

establishment it was and don't state

27:40

offices the dom again and leonard

27:42

li of the federalist society picked up the idea

27:45

of trump publicly announcing a list

27:47

of potential supreme court judges that you exist

27:50

from and a basically went like that

27:52

and with ah mcgann and jones

27:54

day vetting those not pencil nominees

27:56

and winners of course and

27:59

mcgann that could not be what does council

28:01

and he brings with him into the white house into

28:04

the trump administration thousands of

28:06

his colleagues from john stay who are

28:09

you know not only to bite us but their top

28:11

of the justice department's third commerce department

28:13

there and energy regulatory agency

28:16

the consumer products agency says and doomsday

28:19

his knowledge takes over the federal government and

28:21

all but it's it had more of it's once

28:23

and future lawyers in positions of rape

28:25

our inside the trump administration and

28:27

inside think any law firm law any administration

28:30

has ever had before lab

28:33

the game figured out that trump

28:35

was truth

28:36

stupid fit influence

28:38

for i think the element of first and with avenues

28:41

that mcgann sort of game very nervous about

28:43

mcgann it's personal legal exposure

28:45

and that you know a pattern

28:47

that we've seen in the bad part of being

28:49

a lawyer and some for on what racism

28:52

pattern try to this is something that was happening

28:54

for decades before trump ever

28:56

been started flirting with why does in his happened

28:58

to this day when lawyers to

29:01

pass their lot with donald trump often

29:03

find themselves in the

29:06

legal peril themselves which is the last place

29:08

a lawyer ever to me and i'm i'm

29:10

against response to that concern with him interesting

29:12

wanted that he called us the guy

29:14

who runs jumps tasty program the

29:17

urge him brogan to pitches

29:19

services to trump's that trump's

29:21

personal legal problems been dumped on jones day

29:23

so and madame could say in the white house was

29:26

right about which was remaking the

29:28

federal judiciary and and of

29:30

new during the federal government and it's regulatory

29:32

powers and brogan went into the

29:34

white us to the oval office a couple of times

29:36

and actually have met with com friend had to services

29:39

and from ultimately went for john

29:41

dowd who is a bit more

29:43

it in the traditional styles of

29:45

a counselor but mcgann nonetheless

29:48

managed to it has

29:50

enough time and snc to focus on picking

29:53

judges and there's a man

29:55

doing what he likes to call the administrative state that

29:57

and those are paid to him not

30:00

need to most lasting legacy is

30:02

under trump administration and the other things are going

30:04

to you felt for years

30:06

maybe decades to come down for

30:09

sas

30:10

one of the things sorted calmly as always

30:12

whole me is that the way

30:14

council or like the biggest

30:16

fans of has not ,

30:18

not sure i'm supposed to say that much you

30:21

paid that much i just realized realized

30:24

he would say that the white house counsel was the biggest

30:26

fans of health and when george was writing

30:28

all those pieces that they yeah

30:30

a lot of fans and the white house counsel

30:32

oh that's so interesting i the i

30:34

had matters or matters say

30:37

that it was it isn't the interesting thing know

30:39

about that it has really telling yeah

30:41

it's really time right a lot of these guys and

30:43

i think including mcgann you know they

30:45

they liked they fact that they had

30:48

would they regard as of pliable president

30:50

be pliable to be and mcgann famously

30:52

battle with conrad these screaming

30:54

matches with them and with don't personally they got

30:56

along all that well as it was an

30:58

amber do is look who's worth the

31:01

the faithfulness i think because

31:03

they had this really once in a generation

31:06

opportunity to in

31:08

particular remake the federal judiciary and

31:10

then again had essentially unfettered

31:12

authority to be the one person

31:15

who was coming up with judicial nominees not

31:17

as for the supreme court but also for

31:19

the n b a power chords and district

31:21

court over a quarter of the appellate amps

31:23

turned over in the trump administration was

31:25

replaced of people who not entirely

31:28

been mostly as the unqualified

31:30

back to the federalist society and muggy am i to

31:32

tell the story about how you know

31:35

he hates it when people come up doom and say

31:37

you outsource a gallon jugs get into

31:40

the federalist society again

31:42

says his response to that is we

31:44

didn't outsources we in source that that's

31:47

why it's true i'm every person

31:49

he had the well as council box with a member of the federalist

31:52

society and they were extremely

31:54

efficient and effective the

31:57

the strategic about how they were going to execute

31:59

on this than and it worked said i'm

32:01

just i'm staring at my computer

32:03

in the har thinking about this i mean i

32:06

know it's true but it's still so graham

32:08

the other thing that happened is that a number

32:11

of lawyers from jones they were

32:13

among though is that got pissed to be

32:15

on the federal courts i mean greg tabs

32:17

is who is a long time zones a partner

32:20

and who had been good mechanic brought into the white house

32:22

counsel's office was one of the first people who he

32:24

was put on put d c pilgrimages

32:26

find the supreme court and remote play the most powerful

32:29

judicial body in the united states or

32:31

any other than there are than bunch of others one that lifetime

32:33

appointments who'd gone from jones day into

32:35

the trump administration with mcgann and

32:37

then get very quickly turned around

32:39

sees lifetime appointment so it was a really symbiotic

32:42

relationship i think between the trump

32:44

administration it's own stay empty

32:46

asper and now the federal courts

32:48

and and as bad as going to be with us for

32:51

a very long time

32:52

do they consider the ad supreme

32:54

court to be there

32:55

it is accomplishment for absolutely

32:57

absolutely and you know those are

32:59

people who are in courses

33:01

cabinet and there are people

33:04

who are all made the effort

33:06

in some regards and it i don't mean

33:08

necessarily that chris might but they are very

33:10

uniform and many of their core beliefs

33:13

and as long as it's because

33:15

donegan even before he got into the white us

33:17

that monday and and other kinds of jobs

33:19

day and people the federalist society

33:21

were planning very carefully and exactly how

33:23

their than a role as out and and mcgann

33:26

tits courses in canada

33:28

and he is what barrett

33:30

wasn't nominated the port blast from mcgann

33:33

had left the white as but it was mugged paul

33:35

mcgann was in the white house counsel's office said

33:37

bear it was plucked from academic

33:39

obscurity and put on put appeals court

33:41

which with more or less and be express

33:43

understanding that suit another make him

33:45

to open up during the trump administration see

33:48

would be a prime candidate for let's out candidate

33:50

the interesting thing about this is that not only

33:52

do these people have very similar

33:55

legal philosophies and similar think any allergies

33:57

are they are hang out together and

34:00

there is an amazing annika record

34:02

involved in a day after room v wade was overturned

34:04

in june barrett just as their

34:06

it came up to new york for a birthday

34:09

party that was hosted at the home

34:11

of one of guns days senior most

34:13

lawyers and while there is paying

34:15

out with a bunch of don't stay earners include know

34:17

francisco who is and been the trump administration

34:20

solicitor general now runs

34:22

jones a practice where many of his lawyers

34:24

had cases before this record and at that very

34:26

moment in fact has a case an open

34:28

case before the supreme court the days later the

34:31

court with barrett and majority would rule

34:33

in favor of zones is quiet and so it it's

34:35

not as good as any cause and effect their that's improper

34:38

for them to be seen each other but i didn't really

34:40

clearly reflects our intermingled

34:42

these worlds are through professional social

34:45

a radiology let's

34:48

it's absolutely crazy it's interesting

34:50

now that i'm spilling that see and

34:52

same things that mets was be saying which is basically

34:55

a dead i had

34:57

i had who was like a very trump

34:59

the insider who told me

35:01

they were saving eat meat

35:03

for when our be t died

35:06

yeah that's really emphysema or isn't that

35:08

it'll look at madame has been barely

35:11

public about

35:13

in every time he spoke about every time

35:15

you wouldn't permit often when he is speaking publicly

35:17

and five touting his accomplishments in

35:19

the white as he says i'll be speaking

35:21

to an audience like a federalist society group which

35:23

he often does seem a little bit some

35:25

other he strikes me as a little smug anyway

35:28

as he talks about the strategy with aired

35:30

and they didn't know

35:32

nobody knew exactly when ginsburg

35:35

earth system could would die than anything the writing

35:37

had been kind of on a long as i think it

35:39

is hard to imagine that

35:41

inside the white house and inside

35:44

i done demands personal officer john say

35:46

that point there wasn't quite

35:48

a bit of excitement about opportunity

35:50

to elevate someone like parents

35:53

and their plant and i hope

35:55

and they achieved it is

35:58

i remember seeing a tax and thinking getting

36:01

nothing shell that they had

36:03

like lined up some wine is

36:05

rbc died a minute to say

36:07

insists was so club and i mean i guess it's

36:10

democrats also are capable of that

36:12

that favorite nest at a test of me

36:14

as and we know democrats are capable

36:16

of that too but as to struck me as

36:18

shocking see him but the conservative

36:20

movement has developed visit that is

36:23

extremely effective and

36:25

pimp ruthlessly efficient were yet

36:27

i'm focusing on

36:29

the things that matter most to them and the

36:32

federal court system is maybe the

36:34

best example of that and i didn't

36:36

win one of the things that jones day

36:38

and it's release as toddlers dead and

36:40

continue to do to certain as and and

36:42

day him in some ways professionalized

36:45

a lot of as operations that had been taken place it's

36:47

primarily within the confines of the federalist society

36:49

and dons day and a number

36:51

of it's lawyers really avenue broad

36:54

order to the chaos of that from campaign the

36:56

right order to the chaos of the computer space

36:58

and and they weren't order to the cat

37:00

what could have been the chaotic process as

37:03

a dysfunctional white as part of the judicial nominees

37:05

and a power was basket and mcgann and

37:08

eight he was attacked

37:10

with almost there single minded the most and

37:12

will continue to me now into the

37:14

all these guys are back and chiropractors it's on today

37:16

and they continue to take advantage of him from his in

37:19

london improper is just have a natural

37:21

way when they have cases before various

37:23

federal courts and they've now

37:25

their former colleagues ancestral courts

37:27

and there are a lot of the

37:30

those judges and allow those cases are for was on

37:32

the same kind of set of this is investing i'm

37:34

in socialism is primarily now

37:36

the things that are most focused on or

37:38

cases that attack the power

37:40

of the federal government to regulate big industries

37:43

or to protect consumers and

37:45

things like that are in they played jones a played

37:48

a key role in the the big t v

37:50

a case that was decided back and zone where

37:52

the curb dps power to regulate carbon emissions

37:55

johnson was the one that brought the case but

37:57

ended up invalidate and in the

37:59

by damage the region's a moratorium

38:01

on a bit and stranded endemic it was a

38:03

very young as jones a lawyer

38:06

who was appointed to the federal fans

38:08

who was the one who struck down by demonstrations

38:11

mask many and all diseases have this

38:13

common thread which is that they

38:15

are that they represent an interpretation

38:17

of a lot that really really

38:19

that narrows and dilute the

38:21

power of the federal government to

38:24

regulate been business and to

38:26

intervene in the affairs of private companies

38:29

oh interesting thank you so much for

38:31

joining peggy damage gee

38:34

elliot morris elliot morris d the journalist and us

38:36

correspondent at the economist and author

38:38

of strength in numbers how pulls work

38:40

and why we need them welcome to new

38:42

abnormally yeah thing for having me

38:44

on let's talk about polls

38:47

because we

38:47

or a man see something days

38:49

cinema

38:50

time and ,

38:52

know i don't know bad i mean i know

38:54

you're on have a partisan band but for me

38:57

i saw paul that

38:59

the on and on otherwise known

39:01

as

39:02

guns and a bike a points

39:04

the demands from last

39:06

month and i nearly i mean

39:09

i know that he is has this

39:11

maybe combat from

39:12

the thing that he did last him to bus

39:14

and just explained to me what are

39:16

we and amy authors

39:18

said this similar things the we're

39:20

getting wrong independent or odds

39:23

and that we don't understand appalling oh

39:25

wow well we see on for

39:28

hours but in a narrow find

39:30

has seen many of your question a

39:32

i think we can take the ron johnson polling

39:35

as an example here so when

39:37

the other poster that comes out a month ago and has

39:40

his up

39:40

you know x percent or whatever

39:42

and in this month it's like an eight percentage

39:45

point change from last month the

39:47

statistics here and i'm gonna try not

39:49

to make all the listeners eyes glaze over

39:51

say that that a percentage point difference might

39:53

not be real fast sort of the most basic

39:56

way

39:56

this point it it does not reflect

39:59

a prison my of the population actually

40:02

changing their minds

40:03

about the election part of

40:05

that a percentage for change every due

40:07

to the pollster

40:09

employing more partisan

40:12

groups over that time period so say

40:14

they get more republicans now than they got last

40:16

time around that would make the poll look

40:18

like to have a percentage point change in

40:21

voting tension but it might just be

40:23

that they're asking more republicans questions

40:25

now this is your name that can be a source

40:28

of hope for some democrats who was the opposite could be true

40:30

it could be that black hammer on they're asking too many democrats

40:33

how they're gonna vote in their pole and this is

40:35

the big big strategic weakness of the

40:37

polls right now we just really don't know how many

40:39

democrats or republicans there are and

40:41

wisconsin didn't get a pretty good guess are

40:43

making sure you have enough you know high socioeconomic

40:46

status lights and low socioeconomic

40:49

status whites and you know other demographic

40:51

groups education curse and incomes right by the

40:53

end of the day of your trust me too many democratic

40:55

or republican people with them

40:57

that sort of right or using the coveted

40:59

non college white voter as the

41:01

example than the poll can't adjust for that and

41:04

since i mean that's that's the big thing in the book that's the big

41:06

thing as in this election cycle we don't

41:08

know if attitudes

41:10

are republican plus eight or

41:12

if sampling has caused a phantom

41:15

republican plus a

41:16

i'm really the excess this is don't have an answer for this

41:18

so it's up to pollsters up to reporters to just

41:21

you can have very handsome a little okay well

41:23

this little a fault them would see it has

41:25

the same plumbing is that we sang

41:28

yeah you can't trust the sampling to

41:31

provide you a one hundred percent

41:33

accurate portrait or you cannot

41:35

just a sampling to deliver the

41:37

percentage of republicans

41:40

in the electorate today that

41:42

there will be in november and

41:45

aca d because you get to me republicans now

41:47

net like people change their minds or

41:50

those republicans are just not answering the phone which

41:52

is pretty much what happened and twenty twenty it

41:54

as having this year again than the polls are going

41:56

to be biased and pretty much the same exact

41:59

neighbor

41:59

i guess you know that is a big if

42:02

we do not know so i mean basically

42:05

these are all still home phones

42:07

or their cell phone and talk to me about like the methodology

42:09

here oh yeah so the mechanics of a modern

42:12

paul are probably not well it's

42:14

not your daddy poll right you're in there is

42:16

online poll so people go to say

42:18

you gov dot com and they put

42:20

their email address and their demographic information

42:23

the the platform and then you got will select

42:26

them and give them a poll that's a pretty

42:28

on class online poll or

42:30

you could have could have

42:32

live interviewed

42:34

in a cold calls to a cell phone and a landline

42:37

be a blended together the pollsters to the mass

42:39

to figure out how many and each bucket they need

42:42

are you can also do a pull over sms

42:44

text so you'd send people weeks

42:46

to fill out a poll online there's

42:48

a number of and of other methods to the pollsters

42:51

or now doing pulls over mail

42:53

again which it via they sort of band into

42:55

because it wasn't representative but

42:57

recent innovations of made a representative again and

42:59

so that

43:00

the sort of source for hope fixing

43:02

the sampling as if they are so

43:05

principally complex right you have all these different

43:07

of information you don't know if

43:09

you're getting accurate portrait

43:11

of americans based on their part is an identity

43:13

even if you have an accurate demographic portrait

43:16

of them he others just as extra

43:18

layer of guesswork that people have

43:20

to do and they're consuming polls are

43:22

you know hopefully reporters do the guesswork for

43:25

them and report on accurately but

43:27

that doesn't always

43:28

the north adam

43:30

the journalists and condoms are

43:32

putting too much emphasis

43:34

on these numbers and not taking

43:36

them as sorted friend

43:39

this is sort of pushed back i died from

43:41

the idea of changing

43:43

the way we poll was that is actually

43:46

the way the polls are interpreted that's wrong

43:48

right are now know that's not

43:50

right okay is a mix of to so

43:53

in in this this is the interest of my book basically

43:56

saying there is problem

43:58

in the media where people over interpret expect

44:00

too much accuracy from them go

44:03

in there i'm wrong by a percentage point the

44:05

to just by virtue of them not

44:07

understanding the uncertainty and you

44:09

know the sampling error or not sampling

44:11

error or whatever people are going to

44:13

overreact to those mrs innocent

44:16

but the second issues that you

44:18

know that kind of letting the posters off the hook they

44:20

were at the end of the day

44:22

the wrong about the percentage of

44:25

trump voters and the electorate and twenty twenty

44:27

and twenty sixty and they missed some key

44:30

racism governor and senate races

44:32

in junior team oh yeah and

44:34

twenty twenty prior to the air

44:36

and maybe this year and in two thousand and twenty

44:38

one you had plenty of bias polls and then new

44:41

jersey governor for it's also thought

44:43

that new juri

44:43

the governor's race i mean that was completely

44:45

crazy i mean to be barely one and

44:48

the polling was well up so

44:50

i mean do you think that ultimately

44:52

what's happening is i have read

44:55

about this before this sort of mag of phenomenon

44:57

of now

44:57

wanting to tell people how you're

44:59

going about well pollsters don't

45:02

find evidence of people lying to them

45:04

about are going to vote for now i'm

45:06

going to caviar that finding with

45:08

hurt that they're not really able to

45:10

talk to the people who would be lying about them

45:12

taking up all the get the way they talk to him as didn't

45:15

couple caesar you

45:18

can have the heck out with a grain of salt

45:20

mit maybe there is some smaller fashion of

45:22

liars out there but the bigger issues just

45:24

that there's differences in

45:27

the likelihood of a republican

45:29

picking up a found them is am a crack at least

45:31

you know and the recent history of polling that's not

45:33

a guarantee of us map and the future

45:36

honestly at the much use your problem to solve the people

45:38

i do is not an easy problem to solve but

45:40

it is a mess of you know there are methodological solutions

45:43

that where there's no methodological solution

45:46

the people lined it does that could be

45:48

i think used as a cop out were in this

45:50

case the others just deep methodological

45:53

problems with because you have a lot

45:55

of money in politics ray a mean we

45:57

saw some the senate candidates with

46:00

in multiple and tens of

46:02

millions of dollars why

46:04

there are no interested

46:06

the like trying different

46:08

new ways appalling weldon

46:10

the campaigns do seem

46:13

to

46:14

innovate a little more than the public

46:16

pollsters i think that that's because

46:18

they have a profit incentive to do so

46:20

right now they are not going to make money if they're wrong

46:23

whereas a public post or can kind of just shrug it off and

46:25

keep going up there doing something in the broader public

46:27

interest or what albeit right

46:29

but you know there there's not a huge difference

46:31

in the methods that these crowds are

46:34

using you can't really trust the

46:36

polling that comes from inside a campaign

46:38

now right well right in the problem

46:40

there is that the the end of the numbers that they're going to

46:42

released publicly they're probably using to like

46:44

juice fundraising toddlers are right for

46:46

you know find email find their campaign

46:49

list campaign what have you so yeah

46:51

we can't trust the public numbers that we get

46:53

from private holsters but

46:55

their private estimates tend to be pretty good stuff

46:57

that's not really helping us but it is

46:59

helping us assess that sort of quality

47:01

of the following industry a writ

47:04

large at the you know they don't have a magic wand

47:06

either the binding campaign polls

47:08

were only slightly less biased

47:11

than the public polls in two thousand and twenty

47:13

you know by admission of the by campaign

47:16

holsters and they're doing some fancy stuff

47:18

too

47:19

the

47:20

if the if you have a group

47:22

of people who don't wired answer your calls

47:24

and let's say that any group of people doesn't have

47:26

to be republicans that is inherently

47:28

going to make your polls more uncertain

47:31

and it's a hard problem to solve unless

47:33

you know exactly and

47:35

you like to the decimal point

47:37

what percentage of the electorate

47:39

that group is going to represent and

47:41

we never know that and election polling because we don't

47:43

know it's gonna turn out until election day is

47:45

so into saying i'd seen

47:47

us some reporting on this i'm not i

47:49

don't how how aca

47:51

it is but it does seem like

47:53

these ballot initiative as do

47:55

really really well and one

47:58

could even there are you from less that

48:00

liberal ballot initiatives not

48:02

even liberal ones the ones that are

48:04

of for example that one swine

48:07

in can that feet outperform

48:10

liberal candidates they

48:12

have any thoughts on why that is

48:14

i think the kansas example is

48:16

a bit of an outlier hear about but

48:18

i mean you saw that report and about

48:20

how republicans wanted

48:22

agent who ballot initiatives need to get sick

48:24

the birth and instead of fifty percent

48:26

they're doing so wow i'm all right i

48:28

think that ruff represent some deep sort

48:30

of like counter majority are in or my door darington

48:32

says on the republican party which are obvious about know

48:34

what lot of us but if it isn't the case

48:37

of the kansas referendum i think

48:39

what's happening there's you'd you have a lot of

48:41

people who vote for republicans because

48:43

their identities tell them to because they align

48:45

with publicans on tax and spending or the

48:48

era racial issues who or whatever

48:50

and a lot of those people who vote typically

48:52

vote for republicans as the i kansas making

48:54

a look really read also want

48:57

to have access to abortion or

48:59

rather he is the wording of the referendum don't

49:02

want the state government to be able to completely

49:04

banner so that that

49:06

outperforming

49:08

the ballot initiative

49:09

i think is a bit sore dependent

49:12

on a contest the larger researchers as

49:14

if you have you have initiative polling at the

49:17

key seventy percent whether the democratic

49:19

or republican or also liberal or conservative

49:22

town initiative typically it's gonna get around

49:24

fifty five that the

49:26

ballot initiatives are almost always

49:28

overstating

49:30

support for change and

49:32

underestimating the status quo regardless

49:35

of what side it's on and i

49:37

mean that is not necessarily not necessarily

49:39

finding it so happens that most ballot initiatives

49:42

move

49:42

the liberal direction because making policy

49:45

tends to be liberal still interesting

49:47

now right there's a lot that matters that we don't

49:49

really pomona on we should have polling

49:51

averages for ballot initiatives just like we have them for election

49:53

we should have ten or twenty

49:55

the canvas abortion referendum instead of two

49:57

or three

49:58

that would give us a better

50:00

the shape

50:01

the contours of public opinion on

50:04

these topics enough what really matters at the end

50:06

of the day the book i wrote has a lot of history

50:08

about how

50:09

presidents and people in washington use

50:11

the polls to up vote advanced or policy

50:13

agenda as but also to react to what

50:15

the public wants and you can't do that

50:18

if you are obsessed with horse race polling

50:20

and there at the end of an election when their so called wrong

50:23

obsessed with denigrating that

50:25

and that harmful to have

50:27

been swift democracy writ large

50:30

so interesting thank you so

50:32

much for joining us

50:33

yeah i'm throwing things

50:36

the levy molly

50:38

john first who is your fact that

50:41

i myself that guy is

50:43

a couple of people one of whom

50:45

is hall of fame football

50:47

player who was much beloved when he

50:49

played by the name of breath farm

50:52

who also despite being

50:54

much beloved did things like send

50:56

unsolicited picks to women

50:58

and others kind of

51:00

gross things that everyone

51:02

, just decided we're going to sweep under

51:04

the table and legend keep doing

51:06

all these commercials and everything my doctors he's

51:09

a likable guy and he played

51:11

the game the right way says

51:13

and look i was a fan of him when he played

51:15

before all this stuff came out he was fun to watch i'm

51:17

proud to say i was never a fan of any sport

51:20

yes you are proud to say that he says

51:22

tinted but what's this thing happening

51:25

down in mississippi mississippi's just haven't a

51:27

couple weeks between the

51:29

unforgivable issues with the water

51:32

in jackson and and

51:34

disks and basically what's

51:36

going on here it is that all

51:38

this money that millions

51:40

and millions of dollars that was supposed to go

51:43

to like welfare basically

51:45

bar poverty fighting initiatives of which

51:47

there is a lot of poverty and

51:49

mrs as bay yes in mississippi

51:51

yes he found a way

51:54

along with the i've never

51:56

the now former governor mississippi are

51:58

still bryant they found bryant way burgess

52:00

money to build a volleyball center

52:03

at the university of southern mississippi where

52:05

coincidentally by far daughter goes and

52:07

plays sat down and look

52:09

this is all just alleged right now

52:12

but of course because it's twenty

52:14

twenty two thera texts

52:16

and there are emails and yes

52:18

they're just allegations right now nothing's been proven

52:21

and innocent until proven guilty but

52:23

nannies emails and texts are bad and

52:26

it's hard to come to any conclusion

52:29

other then you know yes this

52:31

is what happened when you see

52:34

text , five saying things like

52:36

if you are to pay me is there any way to media

52:38

can find out where it came from and how much

52:41

much he says i mean that that is like

52:43

ssssss that is not the

52:45

sinuses he had my dad's that

52:47

makes you feel confident in someone's

52:50

innocence again it's something that it

52:52

can be last act last be last a volleyball center

52:54

but we're talking about taking millions of dollars

52:56

from from initiatives

52:59

to help deal with poverty which is

53:01

a real problem or which is a real problem

53:03

for a lot of people at his old you are

53:05

life or death certain for a lot of people and

53:08

diverting it for a fucked in volleyball

53:10

centres so that brett farr it's daughter

53:12

to have a nice

53:15

, two player game game

53:17

of brett farr of is my mean fuck that guy year

53:20

but also phil bryant

53:22

and the i'm sure

53:24

many other people in the mississippi

53:27

government that else let this happen

53:29

and so the story will be a story that will

53:31

not go away for them the a well

53:33

deserved would you like to hear the mindset

53:36

that i as i believe i believe

53:39

we decided to like six have thought

53:41

that eyes is like an is person

53:44

and not like a real person i was sick of myself

53:46

as an internet person and not like a real person

53:48

while a ,

53:50

when i didn't go back into really

53:52

what is my new year

53:55

i'm sure i mispronounced that anyway snow

53:57

get ugly you didn't happening

54:01

in this zippers about

54:03

to enter della who none of you have ever heard of

54:05

promenade splaine promenade little bit about who

54:08

users sort of right wing hundred see

54:10

sort of the poor man's hey

54:14

jack the soviet is

54:16

that fair

54:18

worn out he was a cop

54:20

the landed in florida he

54:23

has one of these sort of i mean

54:25

it will selmer of

54:26

the wonderful writer at the daily beast

54:28

describes him as it's pugnacious

54:31

his twitter is

54:31

the nation and he once dubbed

54:34

tell by his relationship with his son hunt

54:36

creepy

54:37

and he used to host a show

54:40

for newsmax the have heard of newsmax

54:42

it's like needs less or

54:46

fair fair sad news but without

54:48

this even appearance

54:50

of try to pretend that everything they're

54:53

saying is lies ah sir

54:55

john for the allow had a second

54:57

job mean

54:59

it on twitter and that second job

55:01

was arms dealer i'm sorry

55:04

and our lot of people on twitter who may

55:06

not be great but them are dealing

55:08

women

55:10

as gig economy

55:14

mm and fifteen jobs like i appreciate

55:16

the renegades economy but ngs

55:19

aren't feeling has not been offered to me

55:21

i mean i'm not saying i would do it but like

55:23

how does anyone

55:23

then i don't know but i would do it

55:27

he also is

55:29

there's a he is not only is he was

55:32

he or an arms dealer by

55:34

he was , arms dealer

55:36

who didn't always delivered any

55:38

see stairs to the ukrainians

55:42

out of two hundred thousand dollars thousand body

55:44

armor

55:45

what

55:46

i mean okay so he gets

55:49

a hearty fuck you but he also

55:51

against the sort of puzzled like how do you

55:53

even become an arms dealer and

55:56

die so he is my thoughts

55:57

the guy it is amazing because again

55:59

all these people like trump

56:02

famously it's his

56:04

employees his lawyer lane people

56:06

like that dealer will summer season

56:09

on cardillo it's it's the same thing

56:11

he has multiple accusations

56:13

of he wouldn't put his own lawyer in a case

56:16

his partner in i'd

56:18

add ah that he took out

56:20

against quentin tarantino says

56:23

he never paid the partner

56:25

back from might have to yeah it was

56:27

yeah i mean it's into we will summers

56:30

peace in the daily beast it's really good people

56:32

out there back and twenty fifteen cardillo

56:35

was mad at quentin tarantino

56:37

for saying that stuff about the police

56:39

and cardillo ah at another former

56:42

x and y p d agreed to split

56:44

the cost of a tabloid to add and

56:47

the partner says that could you are steeped

56:49

him on his share of the bill and successfully

56:51

sued him for ten grand success

56:54

is like all these people are exactly

56:56

the same the it's to question of degrees

56:59

for them like trump is just on another level

57:01

for them which is why they idolize and because that's

57:03

what they want they man in how did he is

57:05

the ultimate grifter to them and that's

57:07

what they aspire to exam by

57:10

i'm

57:12

not know we'll wrap this the new abnormal

57:14

from the the daily beast in future episodes will

57:17

be talkin to folks from the daily beast, and

57:19

beyond from media, culture, politics,

57:22

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57:24

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57:26

hope your you'll subscribe wasn't your favorite podcast app

57:29

and share the show on social media, so

57:31

much for listening and will see you get on the next episode