0:01

From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning

0:04

Herald and the Age, this is the

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Morning Edition. I'm Chris Payne, filling in

0:08

for Samantha Selinger Morris. It's

0:11

Wednesday, April 24th. Earlier

0:14

this week, the woman at the centre

0:16

of the mushroom deaths case attended court

0:18

for the second time. Erin

0:20

Patterson was arrested and charged in

0:23

November last year with three counts

0:25

of murder and five counts of

0:27

attempted murder in the small-town Victorian

0:29

case tracked around the world. Legal

0:33

teams are now focusing their efforts on

0:36

the timing and location for a committal

0:38

hearing which could be impacted

0:40

by requests from Patterson's legal team to

0:42

have the case tested in front of

0:44

her peers in a local court. Patterson

0:48

has already spent five months in custody

0:50

and may spend many more waiting for

0:52

a hearing that could be pushed out

0:54

to 2025. Today,

0:57

Crime and Justice reporter Erin Pearson

1:00

on everything we know so far and

1:02

what we can expect next. So

1:08

Erin, it's been months since the

1:10

alleged mushroom cook killer Erin Patterson

1:12

was arrested and later charged with

1:14

three counts of murder and five

1:17

counts of attempted murder. Now

1:19

Patterson attended court for the second time this week

1:21

but before we get to proceedings, could you just

1:23

lay out the facts of the case? It's been

1:25

some time since we've spoken about this. Absolutely.

1:28

So mid last year, there was

1:31

a lunch held at Erin Patterson's

1:33

family home. She invited

1:35

members of her former extended

1:37

family. There was

1:39

served a dish that contained mushrooms

1:42

and the police alleged those mushrooms

1:44

of what led to the poisoning

1:46

of those family members. Now

1:49

we know three of those family

1:51

members died, one recovered after a

1:53

significant stint in hospital, but we

1:55

also know from the police charges

1:58

that Patterson is also accused of of attempting

2:00

to kill her former husband as well. 96

2:05

days after Erin Paterson hosted the deadly

2:07

Beef Wellington lunch, the Homicide Squad made

2:09

its move, arresting 49 year old Erin

2:11

Paterson as part of their investigation into

2:14

the deaths of three people. In

2:16

what has been a complex and

2:18

thorough investigation by Homicide Squad

2:20

detectives and one that

2:22

is not yet over. And Erin and

2:25

Heather, they are some of the best

2:27

people I've ever been. They never did anything wrong

2:29

to me. I've never stayed in a better place.

2:36

Now Paterson appeared in court in

2:38

November last year where the court

2:40

heard that police needed extra time

2:42

to analyse evidences from her home.

2:45

What type of evidence are we talking about there?

2:47

Yes, the police had visited her home

2:50

multiple times. On her

2:52

arrest, they also searched further taking

2:54

in specialist search dogs to help

2:56

them with their investigation. There

2:58

was electronic material seized during that search

3:00

and that electronic material, while we don't

3:03

know the finer details of what that

3:05

is just yet, police said required 20

3:08

weeks to analyse. Looking

3:10

at the time frame that's been spoken about

3:12

in court, they should have

3:15

had all of that material analysed,

3:17

compiled whatever they needed to

3:19

form their case and supplied to the

3:21

defence team for Ms Paterson at the

3:24

end of March. Which brings

3:26

us to a court hearing earlier this

3:28

week. We heard about possible dates and

3:30

locations for a committal hearing. Now

3:33

that's a hearing to decide whether Paterson

3:35

will face trial or not. Can

3:37

you tell me about that? Yes, what we're seeing

3:39

now is it's been six months since

3:41

Ms Paterson has been in custody.

3:43

So we're looking at that time now thinking,

3:46

you know, when is this committal proceeding going

3:48

to happen? A

3:51

committal is also the first time that

3:53

the defence team

3:56

publicly analyse the

3:58

evidence that's been put before. the courts

4:00

in relation to their client. It's

4:03

where we hear from witnesses, we hear

4:05

cross-examination of witnesses and at the

4:07

end of a committal a magistrate will decide

4:09

if there is sufficient evidence that

4:11

has been presented that could go to a

4:13

future jury and if that is the

4:15

case he will commit Patterson to stand

4:18

trial. Patterson

4:20

remains in custody so she was beamed

4:22

in by a video link from the

4:24

Dame Phyllis Frost Centre which is Victoria's

4:26

Women's Prison. She's being housed

4:28

there in a special section called the

4:31

Murray Unit for Protected Prisoners. So

4:33

she appeared from a rather bleak room, looked

4:35

like a grey towel over a window and

4:38

there was a single chair in the background.

4:41

She appeared quite emotionless but seemed to follow

4:43

the proceedings the whole way through. She

4:46

was in a blue jumper, glasses, hair

4:48

pulled back tight into a bun. Could

4:50

you just talk us through a little

4:52

bit about the argument that Patterson's legal

4:55

team made with regards to where

4:57

they wanted this hearing to

4:59

take place? So the

5:01

judicial system usually likes to see

5:04

committal proceedings run within six

5:06

months of a person being charged with

5:08

a criminal offence. At the

5:10

end of the day everybody is

5:12

and should be presumed innocent and

5:14

therefore nobody should be languishing in

5:16

prison unnecessarily while proceedings

5:19

are dragging on. Now

5:21

there's really a couple of options that can happen.

5:24

Typically with a complex and long committal

5:26

which we're looking at about three or

5:28

four weeks, those hearings will

5:30

run in Melbourne where there's more staff,

5:32

there's more courtrooms available in regional areas

5:34

that can be quite difficult, very in

5:37

demand regional areas, they're not staffed as

5:39

well and it's very difficult to pencil

5:41

in a room, a court room for an entire month

5:43

and have no other cases in there. So

5:46

what was discussed was whether or not

5:48

the case will get moved to Melbourne

5:51

or if it will stay at the La Trobe

5:53

Valley courthouse. What that means

5:55

though is because it's a regional court

5:57

that's booked out for months in advance.

6:00

The magistrate raised the issue that it's unlikely a

6:02

committal could be held until 2025. That

6:05

could mean that Patterson would be in custody for

6:08

sort of 14 months or more

6:10

before a committal even happens. And then

6:12

what would have to follow is more

6:14

court proceedings, a possible trial, quite a

6:16

lengthy delay. So concerns were

6:18

raised about that. The prosecution were very supportive

6:21

of the case being moved to Melbourne, but

6:23

Patterson's defense team said

6:25

they'd been instructed by her that she

6:27

wanted the hearing to happen in her

6:29

local community. She wanted that evidence tested

6:31

publicly in front of her

6:34

local community and there is a presumption

6:36

in the judicial system that that is

6:38

what happens. So why

6:40

exactly is it that Patterson's team

6:42

is arguing so adamantly to have

6:44

this case tested in regional Victoria?

6:46

Yeah, well there is a presumption that

6:49

charges are heard and ventilated in the

6:51

local community where those offenses are said

6:53

to have occurred. It's

6:55

really important, I guess, on a

6:57

bigger scale for local communities to

7:00

also stay engaged with the judicial

7:02

system, develop trust and understanding of

7:04

the judicial system when everything is

7:06

centralized into Melbourne, which

7:08

might be convenient for many reasons,

7:10

but you lose that connection to

7:13

the local community. We've also

7:15

got in cases like this, if we've got a

7:17

committal running for three, four

7:19

weeks, there could be dozens of

7:21

witnesses, many of which will

7:23

live locally in the Leingatha, Gippsland area.

7:26

So having them travel as well, considerable

7:28

distance in into Melbourne to give

7:31

evidence is also a really big

7:33

consideration. Okay, so it looks like there

7:35

could be some more delays potentially extending

7:37

into 2025 and

7:39

beyond. What's likely to happen or

7:41

what could we expect in the next few months?

7:43

What are the next steps here? So we are

7:46

scheduled to go back to court next month

7:48

where the magistrate will decide officially whether

7:51

or not it's going to stay in

7:53

Morwell or move to Melbourne, which is

7:55

about 150 kilometres away,

7:58

and he will set down a date for the...

8:00

that committal. So in

8:03

the next couple of weeks, there'll be

8:05

a lot of looking at diaries and

8:07

trying to move things around, figure out

8:09

who's available and get staff in more

8:11

well, which can be quite difficult. But

8:13

our judicial system says it's really important

8:16

that cases are heard where offences are

8:18

alleged to have been committed. So

8:20

it's not unusual for them to be moved, but

8:22

it's certainly the preference usually of lawyers

8:25

for it to stay there. Erin,

8:28

thank you so much for coming on and we'll definitely

8:30

check in with you again as we move through this

8:32

process. Thanks, Chris. Today's

8:40

episode of The Morning Edition was

8:43

produced by Julia Karkatzel. The Morning

8:45

Edition is a production of The

8:47

Age and The Sydney Morning Herald.

8:49

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Chris Payne. This is The Morning Edition.

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Thanks for listening.