0:02

From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald

0:04

and The Age, this is inside politics.

0:07

I'm Jacqueline Maley, it's Friday, May

0:09

10th. The

0:12

federal government will hand down its third budget

0:14

next Tuesday, May 14th.

0:17

Treasurer Jim Chalmers has promised the budget

0:19

will be about cost of living relief and also

0:21

reform.

0:22

It'll be about relieving cost of living

0:24

pressures in the here and now, and

0:26

positioning our economy to take maximum

0:29

advantage of of these opportunities

0:31

into the future.

0:32

The treasurer says people should also expect

0:34

ambitious investment from the government on housing

0:37

supply.

0:38

Housing will be front and centre in the budget. It's going to be

0:40

a big part of what people can

0:42

expect to hear on Tuesday night. That's because we don't

0:44

have enough homes. We need to build more homes for more

0:47

people, and that requires

0:49

a bunch of things. It requires more Commonwealth investment.

0:52

We will do our bit.

0:54

So today, in a special episode,

0:56

chief political correspondent David Crowe

0:58

and senior economics correspondent Shane Wright

1:00

speak to the treasurer, Jim Chalmers, in Canberra.

1:03

They'll cover migration, housing pressures,

1:06

the future Made in Australia policy and

1:08

the Treasurer's general focus ahead of

1:10

next week's budget.

1:17

Good I treasure and welcome to Inside Politics.

1:19

Thanks for having me guys. Shane and David, nice to see

1:21

you. Great to have.

1:22

You. And thanks very much. First question

1:24

really is about comparing this budget to last

1:27

one. Last year you announced 14.6

1:29

billion in cost of living relief

1:31

for households. Will

1:33

you have to make that kind of help more

1:35

modest this time around, because you cannot

1:38

afford to put upward pressure on inflation?

1:40

Well, the foundation stone of the cost

1:42

of living help in the budget is $107

1:44

billion worth of tax cuts

1:46

for every taxpayer. And so really,

1:49

the main difference between last year and this

1:51

year is we've got

1:53

quite substantial help for 13.6

1:55

million Australians

1:57

announced and built into the budget,

1:59

and people will receive that from

2:02

July. I think the average tax cut will be about $36

2:04

a week. So that's the main difference. But

2:07

there will be additional cost of living help

2:09

as well. For the final figures

2:11

around that, all of your viewers and listeners

2:13

will have to tune in on on Tuesday, but

2:15

we've said we've been prepared to do a bit more,

2:18

but to do it in a responsible way

2:20

and in a meaningful way, that

2:22

helps with the inflation challenge rather than makes

2:24

it worse.

2:25

And so Future Made in Australia is going to be another

2:27

big theme here. And we've heard a lot of

2:29

talk about critical minerals,

2:32

about renewable energy projects and so forth.

2:34

Now, you've signalled some tax incentives

2:36

as part of this agenda. Um, how

2:39

broad will those tax incentives be?

2:41

Are they restricted to specific industries

2:43

or do they go beyond that?

2:45

Well, there'll be a combination of measures in the budget.

2:47

Um, you know, this opportunity doesn't

2:49

present itself in one way. And that means

2:52

that the the levers that we pull

2:54

are not identical, you know, right across

2:56

this agenda. You know, this agenda

2:58

is, is all about

3:00

making ourselves an indispensable

3:03

part of the global net zero transformation.

3:05

It's about grabbing the vast industrial

3:07

and economic opportunities,

3:10

uh, of of net zero.

3:12

Uh, and so within those opportunities and

3:14

you've mentioned a couple of them in your

3:17

question, uh, different levers

3:19

are more or less appropriate. And so

3:21

people should expect to see a package

3:23

which is coherent. Uh, but,

3:26

uh, incentives, which are quite bespoke

3:28

depending on the type of opportunity we're, we're,

3:31

we're seeking to maximise.

3:32

Why not just cut company tax instead?

3:35

That would be quite a blunt way of going

3:37

about it. Quite an expensive way.

3:39

Um, and what we're trying

3:41

to do here is we're trying to attract

3:44

more, uh, private

3:46

investment, uh, at

3:48

the intersection of industry,

3:51

energy, resources, skills.

3:54

Uh, and those are our big national

3:56

advantages. That's why we feel optimistic

3:58

and confident about the future. And the

4:00

best way to incentivize the private investment

4:02

that we need, which is the overwhelming focus

4:04

of the package, uh, is

4:07

to focus on where we think those opportunities

4:09

will be most fruitful.

4:10

So the budget every year outlines

4:12

the liabilities, the contingent liabilities

4:14

of what the government might

4:17

face. That includes, uh,

4:19

a liability in case a piece of Australian

4:21

space junk hits anyone

4:23

on the planet. We have a liability

4:25

if that happens to us.

4:27

Has that happened to you, Shane?

4:28

Not lately. But the important

4:30

thing in this space is you

4:32

can't guarantee any of the businesses that you

4:35

support. All of them will succeed.

4:38

Does that mean you will have to allow

4:40

for the possibility that the

4:42

government will lose money, that taxpayers

4:44

will lose money, and will that be part of the

4:46

budget? Well, first.

4:47

Of all, I mean, that's not unusual or unprecedented.

4:49

I mean, we wouldn't be the first government,

4:52

uh, to to co-invest in

4:54

the economy. And so we will account for

4:56

that and we'll treat, treat that the usual

4:59

way. Uh, but also and this

5:01

goes a bit to, to David's question a moment ago,

5:03

you know, we don't people shouldn't

5:05

assume that what we're trying to do here

5:07

with public investment is replace private

5:10

investment. We're trying to incentivize we're trying to

5:12

attract it. Uh, and that

5:14

won't necessarily always be with grants

5:16

or equity. You know, there are other ways

5:19

that we can support, uh,

5:21

the future growth of our economy. And I know

5:24

that this is, uh, uh, you

5:26

know, to take the most expansive view of this,

5:28

and you would know this, Shane, and you would know it, too.

5:30

David, you think about the way that our economy

5:32

has unfolded since Federation and

5:34

Paul Keating talks about this. The first economy

5:37

was colonial and agricultural.

5:39

The second one was industrial behind the tariff wall.

5:41

The third one was the big opening up in

5:43

the 80s and 90s. This is really

5:46

about the fourth growth model for Australia,

5:48

and it recognizes that our future will be

5:50

powered by cleaner and cheaper energy.

5:52

Uh, there is economic and industrial opportunity

5:55

in that for us, in fact, a golden opportunity

5:57

for Australia. And if we don't play the cards

5:59

that we have been dealt, uh,

6:01

that would be an egregious breach, in my view,

6:03

of our generational responsibilities. But if you.

6:05

Offer things like loans, um, or

6:08

take equity, in some cases,

6:10

that may not work out. Do

6:12

you acknowledge that some of those loans

6:15

may end up failing? And there's a logical

6:17

question, which is if they do fail,

6:19

who takes the blame? Is that on you, or is that on

6:21

some other government agency? Well, two.

6:23

Things about that. I mean, the first part is to is

6:25

to go back to my answer to Shane, which

6:27

is that's been a feature of, of budgeting

6:29

for a long time. That predates

6:31

our approach. Secondly,

6:34

what we've tried to do with these co-investment funds

6:37

is make sure that they've got the best possible

6:39

people, the best possible evidence based

6:42

decision making, so

6:44

that we're government is taking

6:46

a stake or making a co-investment of any

6:48

kind, that it is well informed.

6:51

Uh, and that will be the approach, you'll see,

6:53

uh, in the various ways that we've put

6:56

together, uh, the public part,

6:58

which is only a sliver of the equation, the public

7:00

part of some of this investment.

7:02

When making these kind of loans available

7:05

to companies and putting taxpayer

7:07

funds at at

7:09

risk, shouldn't taxpayers be able

7:11

to see more information about how those investments

7:13

are made so they can see official advice

7:15

that gives them a level of assurance that

7:18

the deal stacks up?

7:19

What I intend to do in the budget,

7:22

uh, is to make it even clearer.

7:24

Uh, the kind of frameworks that we will

7:26

be relying on as we

7:29

consult on and finalize

7:31

the policies that will be announced in the budget.

7:34

You know, I've already indicated publicly

7:36

to help form people's consideration

7:38

about this, the sorts of considerations that

7:40

we will apply, uh, and

7:42

why, uh, but the combination

7:44

of the future Made in Australia Act and

7:47

some of the other detailed

7:49

framework that I release, uh, next

7:51

week. And after that, we'll go

7:53

to this question. You know, we do want people to understand

7:56

the nature of the opportunity, but also

7:58

to assure people that there is a rigour

8:00

and a robustness, uh, about

8:02

how we're going about this. It's not some kind of

8:04

free for all of taxpayer dollars, very

8:06

rigorous, very robust, guided by legislation

8:09

and frameworks, uh,

8:11

heavy involvement from Treasury Department,

8:13

the Finance Department, in combination with

8:15

Ed Husic's Department and Chris Bowen's department

8:18

and the rest to make sure that

8:20

we get value for money here.

8:22

I just want to circle back a bit to, to tax,

8:24

um, because the decision

8:26

to rejig the tax, uh, stage

8:28

three tax cut, very big political

8:31

argument as well as ringing a bell. Yeah, a big economic

8:34

one for you as well. Is

8:36

this the shape of the personal

8:38

tax system that you think

8:40

you'll take to the next election? Is this

8:43

the way that you you think the tax system should

8:45

be set for the next two, three, four,

8:47

five years?

8:48

I certainly we haven't been contemplating

8:50

another, uh, round of,

8:54

uh, personal income tax reform to come

8:56

so closely on the heels of this round. You know,

8:58

we've only just legislated, uh,

9:00

these changes and they'll flow from, from

9:02

July unless something dramatically

9:04

changes. I think people should expect to see

9:07

that these are the rates and thresholds that will apply

9:09

at election time. Uh, and

9:11

we did this for a very good reason. And we've

9:13

talked about this on a number of occasions

9:15

before. Uh, we think this is a better

9:17

way to return bracket creep. We think it's a good way

9:19

to ensure that people earn

9:22

more and keep more of what they earn.

9:24

It's better for labor supply, better for women,

9:26

better for young people, better for middle Australia.

9:29

Uh, so we're quite proud of the changes that we've made.

9:31

And our focus is on rolling these out rather than

9:33

on the next round.

9:34

Yet I was going to say going to bracket creep.

9:36

Over 126,000 have been waiting

9:38

for some relief from bracket creep since

9:41

Scott Morrison announced this whole program years

9:44

ago. Why don't

9:46

you go back to Malcolm

9:48

Fraser and Phillip Lynch and say, right, let's

9:50

index thresholds with

9:52

inflation. That would ease bracket

9:54

creep very quickly for a lot of people.

9:57

Well, indexation is not a

9:59

common feature of our tax system. There are

10:01

other rates and thresholds which aren't

10:03

which aren't indexed in that way.

10:06

Governments from time to time, uh,

10:08

we'll want to change rates and thresholds.

10:11

Uh, we're reforming the income tax system here.

10:13

We're cutting two rates and we're lifting two thresholds,

10:16

I think, from memory. And you'll correct me

10:18

if I'm wrong. Uh, the last time

10:20

the top threshold was lifted was

10:22

also by labor in about 2008,

10:25

uh, implementing the changes announced before

10:28

that election. And so there is

10:30

tax reform here. We are returning bracket

10:32

creep. We're doing it in a much, much better way,

10:35

uh, than would have occurred had we not

10:37

changed the tax cuts at the start of the

10:39

year.

10:39

Your answer a moment ago suggested that

10:42

we shouldn't be expecting any further change

10:44

on personal income tax before the next election,

10:46

but we do know that the coalition is going to

10:48

tweak its personal tax policy because

10:50

they complained, but then accepted the stage three

10:52

changes. Shouldn't you

10:54

leave yourself a little bit of leeway to respond to

10:57

whatever tax change they may put up?

10:59

We'll always try and do the right thing. Uh,

11:01

by by people, you know, conscious

11:03

of the budget, conscious, conscious of cost,

11:05

of living pressures and the needs of the economy now

11:07

and into the future. So that's that's our

11:09

standing position on that. The reason

11:11

I'm smiling, David, is because

11:13

it's not clear to me what the coalition. In

11:16

the same interview on Sunday, Susan Lee said both

11:18

things that they were going to change it. And then she said,

11:20

I didn't say they were going to change the tax system.

11:23

It would cost about $40 billion,

11:25

uh, to implement the,

11:27

uh, higher income part of the old

11:30

stage three. The opposition says

11:32

that they're interested in doing that. They should tell

11:34

us on Thursday night in the budget reply how

11:36

they'll pay for that.

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12:19

On Friday national

12:21

cabinet's meeting to discuss elements

12:23

of housing. Should we expect

12:25

this budget to be ambitious in terms of housing

12:27

supply?

12:28

Yes, you should, and

12:30

it will build on the $25 billion

12:33

and 17 existing policies

12:36

that we've invested in over the course of the last

12:38

two years. Housing will be front and centre in the budget.

12:40

It's going to be a big part of

12:42

what people can expect to hear on Tuesday

12:44

night. That's because we don't have enough homes. We need to build

12:46

more homes for more, uh, people.

12:49

Uh, and that requires

12:51

a bunch of things. It requires more Commonwealth investment,

12:54

and we will do our bit. It requires

12:56

the states and territories to to do their

12:59

bit. And I'm confident that they will. It

13:01

requires a better, bigger workforce.

13:03

And that's why we're paying for 20,000

13:05

fee free opportunities to to

13:07

train more builders and construction workers.

13:09

All of these things need to happen if

13:12

we are to hit that ambitious but achievable

13:14

target of 1.2 million

13:16

homes for five years after this

13:18

July. Uh, so, yes,

13:20

uh, long way of saying people should expect housing

13:22

to be a big focus and that we will do

13:24

our bit, we'll do our bit and

13:27

we will fund our bit.

13:27

So the fact that the national cabinet meeting on Friday,

13:30

does that mean that there's something new that's being

13:32

informed or handed to the states

13:34

on Friday? Or is it simply a meeting to say

13:37

what you already know? We're actually finalising in the

13:39

budget? Should we be expecting, in

13:41

other words, a big surprise

13:43

on housing.

13:44

I know not to, uh, front run or

13:46

pre-empt or make assumptions about conversations

13:48

with the states and territories, uh, you

13:51

know, two terrific colleagues, uh, one called

13:53

Anthony and one called Julie, uh, are

13:55

doing a lot of this work at the moment.

13:58

Obviously, we've got an interest and an involvement in

14:00

that. I don't want to pre-empt it.

14:02

Uh, but I am

14:04

prepared to say that we want to work

14:06

with the states and territories to build more homes.

14:09

Uh, you think about the pressures on rent,

14:11

uh, how hard it is for people to get into

14:13

the housing market. We've got a responsibility here.

14:15

And we we will meet it.

14:17

What do you say to those people who are worried

14:19

extra homes means crowding

14:22

in and changing the nature of their

14:24

suburbs?

14:24

Yeah. I mean, it does remind us

14:27

that planning is a big part of the story here.

14:29

Uh, and planning can sometimes

14:32

be contentious. We know that planning

14:34

has to change a big part of the story.

14:36

We need to make sure, uh,

14:38

that we're releasing the land and we've got the

14:40

planning arrangements which will support us

14:42

building more homes. Can you? That is

14:45

a huge objective that we need to share at

14:47

every level of government.

14:48

Can you offer more financial incentives to the states

14:50

to do that land release. So there's actually

14:52

a bit more pressure on the system

14:55

to open up new areas where homes can

14:57

be built.

14:58

Are we are doing a bit of that already.

15:00

Um, and I think that is important.

15:02

Um, because, you know, I

15:05

speak to a lot of local councils, state governments,

15:07

obviously investors,

15:09

you know, we're all trying to work out how to get

15:11

these homes built. Uh, and one

15:13

of the one of the issues is, uh,

15:15

infrastructure bottlenecks in terms of

15:17

land release. Yeah. So we have,

15:20

uh, provisioned some money in the past for that. Can

15:22

you do.

15:22

More of that? I'm trying to find out whether that's going to be

15:24

a big theme, because it's easy to

15:26

say there's some land here to release.

15:29

Yeah, but states will need federal help

15:31

to build the roads and the railway lines to

15:33

get to that new destination.

15:35

Yeah, infrastructure is a big part of the story.

15:38

Uh, and whether it's the public transport

15:40

or the road infrastructure, uh,

15:42

equally the kind of smaller scale local

15:44

government level, uh, infrastructure that can

15:46

be a bottleneck. Uh, we've shown a willingness

15:48

to, to come to the table on that in

15:51

the past. Uh, and you

15:53

can assume from that that we'd be willing to do that again

15:55

in the future.

15:56

We've seen community concern about where migration

15:59

is going. Will the government's

16:01

cut to offshore student numbers

16:03

and other changes to migration actually

16:06

have the impact of reducing economic growth?

16:09

Well, what you'll see in the budget forecast is that net

16:11

overseas migration next year will

16:13

be about half what it was last year.

16:15

Um, and that reflects a couple of things.

16:18

It reflects that the big

16:20

spike in students in particular, but also

16:22

long term tourists that we saw

16:24

after Covid, you know, that is washing

16:26

out a bit out of the system. But also,

16:29

uh, to her credit, Claire O'Neill and

16:31

other colleagues have put some effort into making

16:34

sure that the student market

16:36

in particular, uh, is, is robust

16:38

and defensible so that the people who are

16:40

coming here to study are coming here genuinely

16:42

to study. And that's part of the story as

16:45

well. And we ended the pandemic visa and

16:47

a whole bunch of stuff that we did to try and moderate,

16:50

uh, this growth. Um, I don't

16:52

really necessarily see that,

16:54

uh, as, uh, denying

16:56

ourselves, uh, growth in the economy.

16:59

Um, obviously, you

17:02

know, the amount of people and the distribution

17:04

of people in our economy matters to our

17:06

to our prospects. Uh, but I just

17:08

see it as a responsible

17:10

way of managing the situation,

17:13

uh, and making sure that we can manage the pressures

17:15

on our communities. Uh, and so

17:18

that is our objective, uh, that

17:20

will impact on the forecast for growth

17:23

and the economy, but worth it.

17:24

The other side of the

17:26

population growth is natural population

17:29

growth. Yeah. Fertility rates

17:31

down 20% since 2008.

17:33

The natural population growth is down 14%

17:36

from 2019. You're a father of three.

17:39

Why do you think Australians are having

17:41

fewer children?

17:42

I think people are leaving it later.

17:44

Uh, and, um,

17:47

sometimes that means you get timed out.

17:50

Um, but there are a whole range of reasons

17:52

people's preferences are changing.

17:54

Um, uh, it's

17:56

expensive to raise kids.

17:58

Your government has put a lot into

18:00

areas from child care to Pell.

18:02

Yeah. Why not revisit the

18:04

baby bonus?

18:05

Oh, I think the answer is in your question. You know,

18:07

we think that there are better ways to do that.

18:10

You know, I don't knock what Peter Costello

18:12

did all those years ago, uh, around that

18:14

first intergenerational report. In fact, I've given

18:16

him, uh, credit for starting

18:18

the Intergenerational Report, which was part of this important,

18:21

uh, conversation. It's helped educate our choices

18:23

about the aging of the population. Um,

18:26

it would be better if birth rates were higher.

18:29

Uh, and we need to balance that against

18:31

all of the other ways that our population

18:34

grows. But people have got

18:36

different preferences, and we want to make it easier for them

18:38

to make choices in their own interests. So paid

18:40

parental leave, adding superannuation

18:43

guarantee to that huge investments

18:45

in early childhood education. All of these things

18:47

are about trying to,

18:50

um, make it easier for people

18:52

to have more kids if they want to, uh,

18:54

and to work more if they want to, after they've

18:56

had their kids.

18:57

What's your philosophy with this budget? When

18:59

you did your PhD on Paul

19:01

Keating, you were researching and

19:03

studying somebody who was about divesting

19:06

assets, opening up the free market

19:08

and scaling back government. You

19:10

sold off Qantas. He sold off the com bank.

19:12

You're scaling up government. You're scaling

19:15

up investment in public assets

19:17

or private assets through public loans and so

19:19

forth. Have you changed your economic

19:21

philosophy over time, and is that reflected

19:24

in in the budget?

19:25

Well, I don't see it as a repudiation

19:28

of the really quite remarkable

19:30

progress that Paul and Bob and their

19:32

colleagues made in the 80s and 90s. You know,

19:34

there's probably no one in this Parliament that's in your question

19:37

again, uh, who has been

19:39

more attentive to or more grateful for

19:41

that really quite remarkable golden

19:44

period of reform. Um,

19:46

what we're talking about here is not a repudiation

19:48

of that. It's just a recognition that

19:50

the the world has changed

19:53

and the orthodoxy has changed as well,

19:55

the sorts of things that we're contemplating. First

19:57

of all, they are largely about incentivizing

19:59

private investment, but they're not

20:02

out of place in the investor community

20:04

that I move in global and domestic. They're

20:06

not out of place amongst my colleagues and counterparts

20:08

around the world. The orthodoxy has changed

20:11

just as the world has changed and the pace

20:13

of that change is accelerating. And

20:15

what for Paul in the 80s and 90s

20:18

was opening up without selling out?

20:20

Uh, for us is about investing

20:22

and engaging, not protecting or

20:25

retreating. Uh, we're not talking

20:27

about manufacturing the past. We're talking about

20:29

powering the future of our economy.

20:32

And if Paul was in my job in 2024

20:35

rather than 1984, I

20:37

suspect he would be interested in the energy transformation

20:40

to have, you know, he be. Yeah. We talk

20:42

about this from time to time. Um,

20:45

the.

20:45

I think he's on board with Future Made in Australia.

20:48

Um, well, I know that he

20:50

he sees the energy transformation as Australia's

20:52

big chance. Uh, and

20:54

that's what this is fundamentally about.

20:57

You know, I think a lot of people recognize that

20:59

the global net zero shift,

21:01

it's not the only show in town, but it's the main

21:03

show in town. And we need to be part of it.

21:06

Uh, and if we're if we don't make ourselves

21:08

an. To a part of that, uh,

21:10

our people will be poorer and our

21:12

economy will be more vulnerable,

21:14

and our and our society will be

21:16

weaker as a consequence.

21:18

One of your apart from

21:20

economic reform has been institutional reform,

21:23

the reserve Bank. You've really been

21:25

pushing in that space. Of course, the

21:27

bank board met this just this

21:29

week. But under your original timetable,

21:32

that board would only meet once more before

21:34

July 1st, and then we'd have moved to a monetary

21:36

policy committee. But you haven't

21:38

got that through Parliament. Where is

21:40

it up to? And surely you

21:42

can't expect that you'll get you'll

21:44

hit that target now.

21:47

Well, unfortunately, some of

21:49

that is in the hands of the Parliament. Uh,

21:51

and you've probably followed more

21:53

closely than anyone, uh,

21:55

our efforts to make

21:57

this a bipartisan thing. I think the

21:59

future of our central bank should be beyond partisan

22:02

politics. I genuinely believe that.

22:04

That's why we put so much effort into engaging

22:06

with and briefing and consulting the opposition.

22:10

Uh, unfortunately, they teamed up with the Greens

22:12

to put it into a committee process which has

22:14

delayed things more than I would like. I'm just

22:16

being upfront about that. Uh,

22:19

we would like to be further progressed, but we're

22:21

not. We play the cards that we're

22:23

dealt in the Senate in particular.

22:25

Uh, but we are working away behind the scenes

22:28

to do everything that we need to do to be

22:30

ready for that deadline. Uh, and

22:32

that includes things like, um,

22:34

you know, I speak quite frequently with Governor

22:36

Bullock about the optimal composition

22:39

and combination on those two new boards,

22:42

Monetary Policy and Governance Board, in addition

22:44

to the old payments Board, to make

22:46

sure that we be at the best combination of talents and

22:48

to make sure that we get continuity on both boards

22:50

rather than on one board. And that's one

22:52

of the things that our opponents have have

22:54

disagreed with.

22:55

Will that monetary policy committee be in

22:58

place, say, for its August meeting?

23:01

Uh, I'd like it to be. I mean, it's it's subject

23:03

to the to the Senate in one way or another,

23:05

unfortunately. But I'll certainly

23:08

do everything that I need to do, uh,

23:10

to make it possible, uh, to

23:12

have the, the two new boards, uh,

23:14

constituted and ready to go.

23:17

What should Australians expect

23:19

on Tuesday night? Because you've had various

23:21

themes for previous economic statements and

23:24

budgets. What's the theme we should be expecting?

23:26

This budget will be about relief and reform.

23:29

It'll be about relieving cost of living

23:31

pressures in the here and now, and

23:33

positioning our economy to take maximum

23:35

advantage of, of these opportunities

23:38

into the future. Uh, it'll be

23:40

about cost of living help and

23:42

a future made in Australia. And that's what,

23:44

uh, that's what people should expect

23:46

to see. And that will all be built on,

23:49

uh, the kind of responsible economic management

23:51

which saw us deliver a surplus in

23:54

our first year and pay down all of that debt.

23:56

Uh, not as an end in itself, but so that we can

23:59

make room for all of these other priorities. But primarily,

24:02

I think anyone who tunes into the budget

24:04

on Tuesday night will see a government

24:07

that is very focused on easing pressures

24:09

in the here and now at the same time as we invest in the

24:11

future.

24:12

Well, thanks very much for your time. Thanks

24:14

for joining us for the podcast.

24:15

I really appreciate it, guys. Thanks very much.

24:18

Today's episode of Inside Politics

24:21

was produced by Kai Wong and Rachel

24:23

Clun, with technical assistance by

24:25

Debbie Harrington. Our head of audio

24:27

is Tom McKendrick. Inside

24:30

politics is a production of The Age and The Sydney

24:32

Morning Herald. If you enjoy this show

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24:45

Jacqueline Maley, this is inside politics.

24:48

Thank you for listening.