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1-800-KEMDRY or visit chemdry.com today. Thank

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you so much for joining us. We're going to start with the

1:31

story of what's happening in our culture today.

1:33

She talked with several young girls who

1:35

have detransitioned after

1:38

trying to transition to boys. And the girls

1:40

are now calling attention through

1:44

this reporter to the lack of

1:46

safeguards, formal processes, and

1:48

lack of medical protections when it comes

1:52

to minors making life-altering decisions. Later,

1:54

we'll be joined by one of the detransitioners Mary

1:57

Margaret O'Lahan, a senior reporter

1:59

for the Daily St. signal and author of the

2:01

new book, D. Trans, True

2:03

Stories of Escaping the Gender

2:06

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2:08

later this month and available for pre-order

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amac.us.magan. That's

3:20

amac.u-s-forward-slash-m-e-g-y-n. Welcome

3:23

to the show, Mary Margaret. Great to see you,

3:25

Megan. It's so fun to be here. So

3:28

thank you for writing this book. What

3:31

was the reason? Like, what were you

3:33

seeing that drew you to

3:35

these people's stories? Well,

3:38

I think it was the stories themselves that

3:40

made me want to write this in the

3:42

first place. I've been covering gender ideology for

3:44

several years now, and, you know, culture issues

3:47

in general has always been my beat. And

3:49

a couple years ago, I started seeing

3:52

more and more of these detransitioners popping

3:54

up online. And, you know, at the

3:56

time, we weren't really calling them detransitioners.

3:58

And I remember my editors And I

4:00

were like, oh my gosh, we've been wondering if

4:02

this was going to happen. So we were excited

4:04

to see that people were speaking out about it

4:06

because, you know, it wasn't really that common yet.

4:09

And so one day as I was following a

4:11

bunch of these different people online and trying to

4:13

get a handle on their stories, I noticed they

4:15

were going to have a Twitter spaces event and

4:18

I tuned in. I was the only reporter on

4:20

it. It was just a whole bunch of people

4:22

who regretted their hormonal transitions. And I was, I

4:25

was living in this really ratchet little apartment in Arlington

4:27

at the time. So I remember I was making dinner

4:29

while I was listening and

4:31

oh my gosh, Megan, I just,

4:33

I will never forget what they

4:35

were saying. They're describing these horrific

4:37

experiences that they've endured from hormones.

4:40

So for example, the women taking

4:42

testosterone and the men taking estrogen,

4:44

their voices didn't match anymore. They

4:46

were describing how their

4:48

emotions had been messed with the

4:50

physical features, you know, hair loss,

4:52

bone density change, muscle

4:55

atrophy, sexual dysfunction. All these

4:57

different side effects from the

4:59

hormones that they had had no

5:01

idea would be occurring and no one had

5:03

told them about. And so as

5:05

I listened to these stories, I thought, Oh my

5:08

gosh, I need to write about this, but I

5:10

was a little bit younger at the time. I

5:12

didn't totally know how to handle it because you

5:14

know, all these people are anonymous first of all.

5:16

So I didn't really know how

5:18

to get a grasp on their stories. And

5:20

as a couple of years went by and

5:23

more and more detransitioners started speaking out and

5:25

I had the opportunity to write a book,

5:27

I immediately thought this is what I want

5:29

to do. I want to tell reported

5:32

stories of detransitioners in their words, their

5:34

experiences. So someone who picks this up

5:36

off the shelf will read it and

5:39

think, I don't care what that

5:41

reporter thinks, but these stories are horrific. And

5:43

I don't want anything like that to ever

5:45

happen to a child again. So

5:47

that's my goal with this book. And I

5:49

hope that that's what will happen. It's

5:52

so infuriating because the way they

5:54

push the puberty blockers today and

5:56

the social transitioning as though it's

5:58

a nothing Without. Closing

6:00

the very serious severe path

6:02

you're putting your kid on,

6:04

social transitioning will lead inverse.

6:07

The all cases to puberty blockers

6:09

and cross sex hormones and all

6:11

cases so. It is a very big

6:14

deal if he socially transition your child meeting

6:16

start calling her a ham or by a

6:18

male name. or let. Them. Start

6:20

dressing as the opposite sex net

6:22

city schools are doing in private

6:24

with out the parents' knowledge. As

6:27

we just discussed Miguel Cardona. Fate.

6:29

Falsely saying oh, it's up to our investigators

6:32

whether they want to investigate. Well, weirdly, they

6:34

don't at all. In fact, A these policies

6:36

are in place at school after school and

6:38

they don't give a damn. On.

6:41

So. The social transition happens but can you

6:43

to spend a minute on. The. Physical

6:46

ramifications Because this. I

6:49

see this happen. With. Young girls. Who.

6:51

Are just confused about. Something.

6:53

Or they have autism Or they

6:55

have. A D H D. And before

6:57

you know it, They. Are on testosterone.

7:01

And. It has some very dark a sex

7:03

on the body and I do want to

7:05

get graphic because it's that people here at

7:07

because they won't tell you this on Cbs.

7:10

Know. They won't end. For that reason I'm

7:12

going to share something that I learned

7:14

about from one of the young female

7:17

the transition or the my book on.

7:19

She told me about bottom growth and

7:21

it's it's horrible and it's a year.

7:23

Definitely t am I to share this

7:25

point. I when you take to sauce

7:27

your own as a girl it has

7:29

an effect on your genitalia. And what

7:31

these pro trans web sites will tell

7:33

you is that you're going to grow

7:35

on male genitalia. You're going to grow

7:38

up. Yes well obviously that's impossible that

7:40

never going. To happen. You're a woman.

7:42

You're not going to ever grow a

7:44

penis. but when you're taking testosterone it

7:46

is going to affect your genitalia and

7:48

so things are going to enlarge and

7:50

and they're going to become very uncomfortable

7:52

to not a good thing in any

7:54

way. On it's uncomfortable. It's painful. One

7:57

of the young women in my book

7:59

describes to me. She says she couldn't

8:01

even wear underwear because it was so

8:03

painful. And if you book on these

8:05

Pro Trans website to give you graphics

8:07

and trying to show you the progression,

8:09

it's it's It's both a slide though.

8:11

So you graphics up pictures of your

8:14

supposed male genitalia growing. It doesn't That's

8:16

not how it happens cause little bit

8:18

and it's painful and you It doesn't

8:20

go back. Ah, but that was as

8:22

one of the lies that these girls

8:24

are being sold or another one is

8:26

that I. You know the testosterone has

8:28

an effect on your body, but it's

8:31

not going alternately make you look like

8:33

a man. It's going to alter your

8:35

appearance. You're going to lose hair where

8:37

you might wanna. You're going to grow

8:39

hair where you might not wanna. It's

8:41

going to be thicker. Your bone density

8:43

is going to change, Your voice is

8:45

going to change. You're gonna lose the

8:47

ability to scream for a lot of

8:50

girls, which is terrifying, especially because many

8:52

of them are victims of sexual assaults.

8:54

Ah, one girl told me that she

8:56

lost the ability to seeing this with

8:58

preset one of the girls. In the

9:00

book Prisa had a really high operatic voiced

9:02

like to sing Phantom of the Opera once

9:05

she started taking testosterone to the started realizing

9:07

she was losing the ability. It's like

9:09

ago. Almost reminds me begging of the

9:11

loop, the Little Mermaid when the girl's

9:13

voice gets stolen by Ursula The Bad

9:15

which that was what I thought of

9:17

when Prisa was telling me this story

9:19

and and in the same dramatic, horrifying

9:21

way. Or you know, she wants to

9:24

sing and she can't anymore. She wants

9:26

to scream and she can't anymore. On

9:28

And and these are things that as.

9:30

They're taking the testosterone. They're still being

9:32

told that this is a good thing

9:34

that you know they're on their way

9:36

to transition stick and surgically transition soon

9:38

as though they're thinking, okay, well this

9:40

is kind of freaking me out. Boy,

9:42

I'm going to continue with this because

9:44

I'm told that this is good for

9:46

me on, but it's It's unsettling. It's

9:48

disturbing. And. another another aspect

9:50

of it does not talked about

9:52

upon as the emotional changes that

9:54

a lot of these girls experience

9:56

on testosterone helena describes at length

9:58

how she was just go into these

10:00

rages that she had never experienced

10:02

before, just to stost your own rage. It got

10:05

to the point where her dad would have her

10:07

go outside and chop wood so that she could

10:09

have some kind of

10:12

outlet to get all this

10:14

pent up rage out. She'd never experienced

10:16

anything like this before. Similarly, she said

10:18

she had this intense sexual urges that

10:20

she had never had before. And

10:22

what a bunch of these girls likened it

10:24

to was going through puberty as a boy,

10:26

but when you're

10:28

not a boy, no one is going to be

10:31

able to understand that. You

10:33

also aren't having a full male puberty because that's

10:35

never going to happen because you're a girl. So,

10:38

just all these really disturbing

10:41

emotional and physical effects on

10:43

these girls' bodies. For

10:46

the boys that take estrogen, it's

10:48

a whole other animal. The fat

10:51

redistribution happens for both. You take

10:53

testosterone, your body is going to

10:55

redistribute your fat. For a

10:57

boy taking estrogen, that

11:00

feels very weird physically to

11:02

have your fat redistribute to

11:04

your hips and more to your chest.

11:08

The hair loss is significant for

11:10

the boys who are on estrogen. The

11:12

voice changes. One guy

11:14

who was on estrogen told me that he felt

11:16

like he had the ability to multitask. He

11:19

himself said he's not sure if that was in his

11:21

head or not, but it was something that he felt

11:23

like he was having a little bit more access to,

11:26

which I thought was interesting. But

11:30

all of these effects, they

11:32

come with the physical effects that

11:35

are ultimately very draining. And then some of

11:37

these people told me that, for example, when

11:40

you stab yourself with a needle to give

11:42

yourself testosterone, they started developing a really severe

11:44

aversion to doing that combined with all the

11:46

effects that they knew were coming from it.

11:49

And then just the needle itself, they

11:52

were realizing that this act was just such an

11:54

aversion to them that they had to stop. He

12:00

often become a bad driver to the I have

12:02

been. Pushed

12:05

what's the that chef at? Because I

12:07

know. The are

12:09

the things you're outlining. I've heard. Many

12:11

of these and the It's Dark and member

12:13

Abigail Schreier when she had launched a book

12:16

we talked about are. Versatile Damage she

12:18

was saying forgive me audience but

12:20

basically at best What? A girl

12:22

could grow out of her clitoris. Is

12:24

a baby carrot something akin to

12:26

that? And nobody ever is ever

12:29

going to want to have a

12:31

sexual interlude with that. Other than

12:33

a freak. Mean. See, you're free to

12:35

find yourself. Not. Disclosed in the

12:37

it's just a harmless social trends

12:39

in a flash pause where you

12:41

definitely going across a farmlands and

12:43

this what had happened you see

12:45

on auditing is the boys. Okay,

12:47

so let us and the girls warmer second so they stop.

12:50

Their. Puberty were all this estrogen is

12:52

about to flood their bodies. as

12:54

was supposed to happen. And

12:56

instead of that happening. They.

12:58

Lose all their estrogen and

13:01

there are serious repercussions for

13:03

bone growth and strength. For

13:06

these girls there have. Been tests that I

13:08

choose go down for girls and boys.

13:10

Who. Take these puberty blockers and then into

13:13

the hormones. And. Then a boy

13:15

side. It. When they take a puberty blockers. Pay

13:17

Freeze. Their. Penis

13:19

development. Into a little boys

13:22

penis and so if they. D

13:24

Transition. It's something that

13:27

they're basically stuck with. I got a micro

13:29

penis in a lot of the cases and

13:31

so. The you these cars said

13:33

boys don't know. They. Have no

13:35

idea. That's. What they're taking on.

13:38

My. And that's something that I sound.

13:41

Incredibly. upsetting as i was writing

13:43

these this book because you know meghan this

13:45

is emotional i spent so many hours on

13:47

the phone talking to all these people and

13:49

i some of them would cry with me

13:52

as they're sharing so he's really and vulnerable

13:54

intimate stories i would cry with them it's

13:56

and i have a lot of sibling so

13:58

i just imagining these young people going through

14:00

these things and being lied to in this

14:02

way is just so infuriating. But for example,

14:04

Chloe Cole had never had sex or had

14:07

any kind of sexual encounter when she made

14:09

the decision to go on puberty walkers or

14:11

begin her transition. And

14:13

that's mind boggling that all

14:15

of this is being shoved on someone

14:18

who has never had any kind of

14:20

sexual intimate moment before. How

14:23

is a little girl supposed to know

14:25

any of that when she has never

14:27

even held hands with a boy? Oh

14:29

my God, that is such a good point. She

14:33

hasn't even had her first kiss and

14:35

they literally chopped off Chloe's breasts. They

14:38

did. And when she

14:40

began taking testosterone and hormones, she had no idea

14:42

whether she wanted to have kids. She was a

14:44

little girl. She hadn't really thought about it. She

14:46

hadn't really thought about whether she wanted to breastfeed.

14:48

She hadn't really thought about whether she wanted to

14:50

have a family. You know, these are all things

14:53

that we might think about, but as a little

14:55

girl, it's not on

14:57

the mind all the time. And something

14:59

that I wanted to bring up in relation to

15:01

that very topic is because I found this really

15:03

fascinating. Chloe and I kind of

15:05

deep dived into her reasons for

15:08

being interested in transgender ideology in the

15:10

first place. And something

15:12

that I think a lot of us in the

15:14

political world don't have a good grasp on, but

15:16

I'm sure you do, Megan, as a woman, is

15:19

the effect that Instagram has on

15:21

girls and their perceptions of womanhood

15:23

and femininity. So Chloe was telling me

15:25

she was like 13 when she got on Instagram

15:27

for the first time. And she's seeing

15:30

all these depictions of womanhood, you know,

15:32

these like very sexy, voluptuous, sensual women

15:34

who have millions of men in their

15:36

following. And they get so much male

15:38

affirmation for the basically soft porn photos

15:40

that they post to themselves all day.

15:43

And so she's seeing these representations of womanhood

15:46

and thinking, I don't think I

15:48

can be that. That's very daunting. I don't

15:50

know how to do that. I don't look like that. And

15:53

then at the same time as a little

15:55

girl on the Internet, she's being exposed to

15:57

pornography, which is something that many of the

15:59

detransitioners have. I talked to said they were exposed

16:01

to at a young age. And so in

16:03

the pornography, we know that women

16:05

are degraded and humiliated and treating in

16:07

a really horrible fashion. So

16:10

she's seeing on the one hand the women

16:12

treated horribly in these scenarios. And on the

16:14

other hand, these like really aggressively sexual depictions

16:16

of women on social media. And

16:19

she's thinking, A, I don't want that, the

16:21

depictions in pornography. One girl told me that

16:23

doesn't look fun, looks fun for the guys,

16:25

not for the girls. And B,

16:27

I don't think I can ever achieve that. I

16:29

can't be that sexy. I don't know how to do it.

16:32

And so when you have that combined with

16:34

these ideologies saying, Oh, you don't feel like

16:36

you fit in, you feel lonely. You don't

16:38

really like hanging out with girls. Obviously

16:41

you're a boy, you're trans. That's

16:44

just, it's too easy. It's too simple. If

16:46

you say, if you think you're trans, you're

16:48

trans. Exactly. You have

16:50

the thought. And all

16:53

the memes, they all say, if you think

16:55

you're trans, you're trans. You know,

16:57

all the affirmations, if your parents aren't affirming

16:59

you, they hate you. If your friends aren't

17:01

affirming you, they hate you. Be with people

17:03

who love you. All of that

17:05

on social media, it's just, it's

17:07

like catnip for a lonely person. All

17:09

of whom, all of whom

17:12

Mary Margaret will abandon them as soon

17:14

as they have second thoughts. As

17:16

soon as like Chloe was like, I don't know

17:18

if I, it's a big middle

17:20

finger F off. You

17:22

were never really trans. You're out of our club. Our

17:25

cult, as you accurately call it. Yes.

17:29

No, and it really is a

17:31

cult because like you were saying,

17:33

there's this love bombing and this

17:35

insistent determination to bring everyone, as

17:37

many people as possible into the

17:39

fold. And then when

17:41

these people desist or the detransitioners

17:43

dare to say, actually, I

17:45

had a really horrible experience here and I'm suffering

17:47

mentally and physically and I need help. Most

17:50

people are told that they are gaslighters,

17:52

that they are betrayers, that

17:55

they obviously never were part of the trans

17:57

community and they're just thrown out. And

17:59

the sadness. part is. They're thrown

18:01

out. And their be don't really have anywhere

18:04

to go. The. Doctor Today are

18:06

such cowards that they are not

18:08

willing to put their reputations on

18:10

the line and help people like

18:12

Priests and Chloe who have complications

18:15

from their experimental transition And they

18:17

need help. They need someone. Cities

18:19

are together. The. This is

18:21

this is what so calling about the whole thing. These.

18:24

Are almost all of the activists

18:26

representing the so called trans community?

18:28

Or men there man posing as

18:30

women. Are they're aggressive and

18:32

they're angry. They're very angry about the fact

18:34

that they are not women and they never

18:37

will be Women and what they really want

18:39

to do is stifle and control women's voices

18:41

and spaces for that matter. And I was

18:44

thinking about this is I. Was reading some

18:46

excerpts of your book. When I

18:48

was at Nbc. We. Did a

18:50

story with a round table discussion. We

18:52

had sex same panels every week says

18:54

set like. Pick. Twelve people and

18:57

it was the same. Twelve on. And

18:59

that day we were talking about remember

19:02

when Scarlett Johanson got past to play

19:04

a trans person in some movie and

19:06

there was so much blow back against.

19:08

Her immediately because she. Thought trans.

19:11

That she decided not to do the. Role

19:13

And by the way, the movie never got beat. Said

19:15

one of the biggest stars in the world. Sick.

19:17

They could have been a bra the all these

19:20

eyeball said whatever Korea. Are pushing. And

19:22

they didn't get any of them because

19:24

they insisted on principle that only trans

19:26

people complete. Trans people are. Tracy can play

19:28

straight people No problem. Anyway, as we

19:30

heard about it from I think was

19:32

glad which is no longer for gay

19:34

rights. It's all that the trans who

19:36

was all over us like white on

19:38

rice on every single second we did

19:40

that touched on this and they were

19:42

so angry. That. We did not have

19:44

a trans person at the table at at

19:47

our round table to represent trans views and

19:49

trans rights and N B C shared in

19:51

their beer. They were like tail between the

19:53

legs. Oh my God. we should have had

19:56

the trans person there to discuss. It was

19:58

a. It's just looking. Rak. It

20:00

is further evidence to me of how. They've.

20:03

Been playing this game smartly

20:05

and aggressively for so long

20:07

and we've been acquiescing at

20:09

every turn to be nice

20:11

to not get criticized for

20:13

called the mean knit name's

20:15

my next why they're winning

20:17

but these are sick sick

20:19

representatives if if they don't

20:22

speak for all trans people

20:24

but fit their representatives are

20:26

the worst and of caress

20:28

of leave toxic. And

20:30

it's all disturbed men.

20:34

It is an and I'd I'd you

20:36

want to touch on the media aspect

20:38

of it that you just mentioned because

20:40

as a reporter I just just makes

20:42

me incense and I'm sure it makes

20:44

you so angry as well. The way

20:46

in which art establishment or liberal media

20:49

just completely buys into the talking points

20:51

on all His desk at the New

20:53

York Times in Washington Post just recently

20:55

only just recently covered Chloe Coal and

20:57

some of the other D transition or

20:59

and to me that was huge. It

21:01

was a rule sign that these stories

21:03

are so. Powerful. They are what

21:05

is trying. changing the tide on

21:08

this gender ideology movement because you

21:10

can't ignore. These stories you can't

21:12

listen to. Chloe call story and say well

21:14

maybe she's just tried harder to waited longer.

21:16

This is his party or gender journey. He

21:18

can't listen to the add to what she's

21:20

Andrew and feel that way. The yeah, that's

21:22

what a lot of these people are told

21:24

when they go back to their doctors. This

21:26

is despite your gender journey. So what about

21:28

what other markets it to the complete capture

21:30

of the medical professionals Because you know that

21:32

to me. Is. The

21:35

most unforgivable part of all.

21:38

It's. Not these are not the first kids to have.

21:40

Issues. Mental. Health Challenges.

21:43

To be misguided in what they think

21:46

is the solution. But. This is the

21:48

first time. We've seen be complete.

21:51

Surrender. of the

21:53

entire medical community whether it's

21:55

the endocrinologists or the pediatricians

21:57

more than therapists and sex

22:00

to whom parents turn wrongly

22:02

for help on this issue,

22:05

all captured. It's

22:08

evil, Megan. It is

22:10

pure evil. It's so hard to look

22:12

at one person's story. Like,

22:14

let's just say, Chloe, you go down

22:17

the line and you see this therapist

22:19

failed her. That surgeon failed her. That

22:21

surgeon failed her. Like, every single person

22:23

who, by the way, she names in

22:25

her lawsuit, which these lawsuits are amazing,

22:27

and they are such

22:29

an impactful way of fighting

22:31

this battle. Absolutely. But

22:34

each of these people, I looked into them for my book, right?

22:37

And I reach out to them for comment,

22:39

and you see their face online, and you

22:41

think, you did this.

22:44

Like, you made the choice to look at this

22:46

little girl in the eye and say, yes, you

22:49

should take this drug. We have no idea

22:51

what effect it will have on you, but we're going to

22:53

pretend that you can consent to this, even

22:55

though you have no idea what effect it will have

22:58

on you. And then you go home at night, and

23:00

let's say you have kids, and you tuck them into

23:02

bed, and you sleep well. Like, how

23:04

many children have you done this to? One health

23:07

official in particular. Actually,

23:10

this guy was with the California Department

23:12

of Child and Family Services, so not

23:14

necessarily medicine, but he's in a position

23:16

of authority. The

23:19

last chapter of my book is about a girl who

23:21

ultimately committed suicide because

23:23

of this gender journey that she was on.

23:26

It's incredibly tragic. And I got this guy

23:28

on the phone, the guy that signed off

23:30

on her transition, and I said to

23:32

him, why did you sign off

23:35

on this, especially considering this little girl threw

23:37

herself in front of a train, and

23:39

he couldn't remember her story. He

23:42

literally could not remember it. And

23:44

I said to him – he was being really condescending with me,

23:46

and I said to him, does

23:48

this happen a lot? Why can't you remember this

23:50

story? Are there many instances of this? And

23:53

then he got awkward and wanted to get off the phone. But

23:56

the many, many children that are in

23:58

the wake of these – health professionals

24:00

and these school

24:02

officials who just flippantly change these lives

24:05

in this way. I,

24:07

for one, would not want that on my conscience. And

24:10

I don't know how they sleep at night, Megan. I really don't. I

24:14

don't either. And I think the lawsuits

24:16

really might be the answer. Because if

24:18

there's one thing we know from American history,

24:21

when the lawyers get involved with massive

24:23

class actions, real change does

24:25

happen. If they win, if they

24:27

win big verdicts, that's the

24:30

almighty dollar does rule here in America,

24:32

for better or for worse. And if

24:34

you can hit them severely in the

24:36

pocketbooks, they'll stop. They're profit motivated.

24:39

That's why they're doing this in

24:41

the first place. Right. Absolutely.

24:44

No, the monetary incentive here

24:46

is, I mean, I

24:48

think we all assume it's there, but it is so

24:51

perverted. If you think about it, when

24:53

someone gets on testosterone, so let's say

24:56

a girl gets on testosterone, she's not

24:58

getting on it for like, two

25:00

years. She's kind of getting on it

25:02

for life. Megan

25:05

Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly

25:07

Show on Sirius XM. It's your

25:10

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25:12

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harvestfreshnow.com. Back

27:21

with me now, Mary Margaret Ollahan, author of

27:23

the new book, Detrans, which is out May

27:25

28. Get your copy now. Well

27:27

worth your time. And joining me

27:29

now as well is detransitioner, Luca Hine,

27:32

who shares her story in the book.

27:35

Luca was just 16 years old when

27:37

doctors performed a double mastectomy on her.

27:40

As a detransitioner, she claims she

27:42

should not have been allowed to

27:44

consent to the surgery and these

27:46

treatments as a minor. Today

27:49

she's fighting back by telling her story and

27:51

letting her experience serve as a warning. Mary

27:54

Margaret, welcome back. Luca, welcome to you. Hi.

27:59

Great to have you. I just want

28:01

to finish up at the top. I was just I was

28:03

I was having for you got here on the money. Because.

28:06

That's. That's. One of the pieces. Of this

28:08

story marry or I got. We took a deep dive on this.

28:10

Or not too long ago, but

28:12

there are real people making millions

28:14

off of pushing this and it

28:17

does impart explain the total surrender.

28:19

Of the medical industrial complex.

28:23

Yeah I think Matt last sit

28:25

a really interesting investigation about a

28:27

year ago me six months ago

28:29

spot where he had someone go

28:31

undercover and just try an order.

28:33

hormones are from one of these

28:35

online site and that in and

28:37

of itself was so interesting because

28:40

it was so easy way to

28:42

simple on d of the lack

28:44

of informed consent first of all

28:46

is just typical but horrifying. And

28:48

then during that process they were

28:50

able to get letters from these

28:52

alleged therapists. To go ahead when

28:54

get surgery so they're a the process

28:57

has been streamlined in the stream said

28:59

help facilitate getting hormones and getting surgeries.

29:01

I and especially for young people who

29:03

don't really know anyone named as a

29:05

things that they're going to need to

29:07

stay on forever. So you get a

29:10

i get a sixteen year old who's

29:12

going to be on it that's maybe

29:14

seventy. Years of guaranteed

29:16

money. Right and then

29:18

complications follow up surgeries. You know a

29:21

lot of these young people and Luke

29:23

I can tell you they feel like

29:25

once they've had these double mastectomy their

29:27

boom don't believe he'll for a long

29:29

time requires upkeep and and continued follow

29:32

ups. And then the medical complications of

29:34

the hormones of cel requires more medical

29:36

help. And like I was saying earlier,

29:38

that also is a whole issue because

29:40

it's not a lot of these doctors

29:43

are willing to. Ah so his experiment

29:45

per se on on the people that

29:47

had been. Mangled by these

29:49

past other doctors so the

29:51

whole thing is a convoluted

29:54

are very manipulative, very manipulative

29:56

mess. We. Had died Jennifer Bilic

29:58

on I'll Get You The Other. number for

30:00

the audience who's done incredible

30:02

work on all of this. She's really

30:04

exposed exactly who, like

30:07

Penny Pritzker, that's one of them

30:09

of the famed Pritzker family. She's

30:12

related to the Illinois governor, 647, episode

30:15

647, people who are making

30:18

bank on this. And some are trans

30:20

or have a trans relative or so on who

30:22

are pushing it, pushing it, pushing it. And

30:24

they really want, they're trans and they want

30:26

your kid to be trans too. Truly, they

30:28

want your child to

30:30

make them feel better about their

30:33

life choices and mental illness

30:35

in so many cases. It's

30:38

obscene what they're doing. So

30:41

Luca, you, let's talk about your

30:43

story. So you're a young girl,

30:45

tell us a little bit about your family

30:47

and sort of the lead up to this

30:49

drastic decision. Yeah. So

30:51

I was, you know, pretty,

30:55

pretty standard teenager. Had

30:59

a lot going on at home at the time.

31:01

My parents had broken up. I was just

31:04

switching into high school. I

31:06

was going through puberty and all

31:08

of the uncomfortable experiences

31:11

that go along with that. But on

31:13

top of that, I was dealing with

31:15

depression, anxiety, and

31:17

was a victim of being groomed

31:20

and exploited online. And

31:23

that really led me to kind of spiral

31:26

down the path of poor mental health. And

31:30

also expand on that word groomed. Yeah.

31:33

Groomed as in a

31:36

adult predators, talking

31:39

to me online and getting to the

31:41

point where whether through

31:44

like enticement or threats, getting me

31:46

to send them things they want

31:48

or talk with them in a

31:50

certain way. All the time.

31:53

Keep going. Sorry. But

31:56

yeah, I did that Entire experience,

31:58

including how. When.

32:00

The adults in my life did find

32:02

out that ah that grooming was going

32:05

on. Led me

32:07

to heavily. Heavily

32:09

disassociate from my body and disassociate

32:11

from woman from it as a

32:13

concept and my there is a

32:15

female, this is my body. On.

32:19

An idea for happened to be

32:21

you know, born at a time

32:23

where. The concept of oh,

32:25

you don't like your body or are

32:27

you don't like your period? You don't

32:29

like how your body is changing during

32:32

puberty. each that's not normal teenage uncomfortable

32:34

as that actually means that you're a

32:36

boy born in the on body. Can.

32:39

You are. You get what are you saying? what state

32:42

you're in. On

32:44

I am from Nebraska. Okay,

32:46

Honey The heartland? You wouldn't think. By.

32:49

Now I think he just wouldn't think. but

32:51

yes it's happening everywhere. the covered a case

32:53

and disturbing case at a Montana. Where.

32:55

Their child was essentially rested away

32:57

from the parents. Who. Were

33:00

not affirming. So. You start

33:02

to go down and in what was it? Was

33:04

it Reddit? What? Were the website said

33:06

you'd like to flag for people were

33:08

the most with danger lurks. Arm

33:12

it was mainly sites like

33:14

Instagram. Or you tube. And.

33:17

And at the time there was a

33:19

really big Just Messenger app called kicked

33:21

okay I take. I don't think it's.

33:24

Use very much anymore but I

33:27

found in hindsight later when I

33:29

got older said that app has

33:31

a massive predator problem. I

33:34

think he that set it down for the Predator problems.

33:37

Yeah, So. What What happens?

33:39

If you're a it's it's gonna be a

33:41

male predator ninety nine percent of the time

33:43

that what'd they do? They go on these

33:46

web sites and then how do they get

33:48

access to. You Luca Or another girl

33:50

just like you who's. You know, just

33:52

quote questioning right? You're in this like I don't

33:54

know, maybe I'm trans. Everyone around me says the

33:56

you might be if you're on can see you're

33:58

doing your web searches. The web

34:00

is repopulating things and it's pushing you, the

34:02

social media companies are pushing you this stuff.

34:05

But how does the predator get access to

34:07

you? It's

34:09

pretty simple. Typically when a kid is

34:11

having these feelings in the first place,

34:14

they are vulnerable, they are distressed. And

34:16

oftentimes they don't feel like they have

34:18

someone they can talk to, which puts

34:20

it in a very dangerous position for

34:23

a predator to come in and be like, oh,

34:25

I will be that person you can talk to.

34:28

You don't wanna talk to your parents about this?

34:30

Well, I can be like your parents. I care

34:32

about you. I

34:35

care about you. I love you. I wanna

34:37

see you succeed. Stuff like that.

34:41

So this person is pretending to be

34:43

a trans person who can walk you

34:45

through the process or no? There

34:49

were multiple people, but yes, there

34:51

were those individuals. Okay.

34:54

And then we've heard quite a bit about this,

34:57

about how we just spoke with somebody

34:59

the other day about how some will

35:01

encourage you to show your body or

35:03

send naked pictures because

35:06

you're getting out of that body. That's not really your

35:08

body anyway. So, you know, what do you

35:10

care if you send me naked pictures and

35:12

young girls do it. Young girls

35:15

do it who have no trans issues because

35:17

predators find access to them on the internet.

35:19

And then your whole life has changed. You

35:21

get exploited. It's like

35:23

a downward cycle. So can I ask you, you were,

35:25

how old when this was happening to you? 13,

35:29

14 initially. And

35:32

did your parents have any idea about this?

35:35

They found out eventually, but at

35:38

the time, everything in my home

35:40

life was just so incredibly chaotic

35:42

that it just kind of slipped

35:44

through the cracks. Thanks

35:46

to the divorce. To

35:49

the divorce, to the having

35:51

to deal with my other mental health issues

35:53

at the time, having

35:55

to deal with, oh, I'm going to

35:57

a new school soon. Just all, everything.

36:00

in life and just the fact that I had become

36:03

consumed by spending time on my phone,

36:05

it just

36:07

kind of unfortunately slipped through the cracks and

36:09

that's where those predators were able to take

36:11

hold. And I'm not blaming your parents

36:13

at all because, you know, this happened to

36:16

a lot of parents, but I do think it's

36:18

important to figure out exactly what went wrong. And

36:21

the social media, that's a problem,

36:23

right? Explain how

36:26

big that became in your life

36:28

and your transition. It

36:32

became where I was spending the

36:34

majority of my free time once I

36:37

was like home from school in one

36:39

way or another online. Whether

36:43

that be just watching YouTube all

36:45

the time or, you know, going

36:47

on these other social media apps

36:49

like Instagram, it really became an

36:52

all-consuming thing, especially when I was

36:54

dealing with stuff like depression at

36:56

the time. And it was

36:58

so much easier to just sit in

37:00

bed and scroll on my phone rather

37:03

than, you know, get

37:05

up. Yep. This

37:07

is, again, a Lucas story is told

37:10

in Mary Margaret O'Lahan's new book,

37:13

Detrans, True Stories of Escaping the

37:15

Gender Ideology Cult. It comes out

37:18

later in May. You can buy it now

37:20

to support both of these women. Dr.

37:23

Laura, who follows me on the air at

37:26

SiriusXM, who's got a lifetime of being a

37:28

child and family therapist, always says, divorce

37:31

can have real consequences. It is not

37:34

this frivolous thing that we,

37:36

yeah, you get married, you get divorced.

37:38

You know, there are real consequences to

37:40

children in a mom

37:43

and a dad deciding to separate like

37:45

this, especially at an already tender age

37:48

of 12 or 13. And

37:50

she also, by the way, Not for Nothing, says the same

37:53

thing about changing your child's school.

37:57

It's a very dramatic, drastic thing to do

37:59

with a child. kid and should

38:01

not be entered into lightly at all.

38:03

So you are having all this,

38:05

plus you said you had mental health issues. These

38:09

things made you prime

38:11

for exploitation and

38:13

to be misguided. What you needed

38:16

was a group of professionals who

38:19

cared about you, who were

38:21

not pushing an ideology. And

38:24

I can only imagine how

38:26

angry you feel now that

38:28

you didn't get that. I

38:34

look back at my teenage self

38:36

and I look at everything that

38:38

was going on in my life

38:40

because I essentially had the perfect

38:43

storm of comorbidities going

38:45

on. I

38:47

remember depression, sexual trauma,

38:49

rough home life, the

38:51

perfect checklist of

38:53

what should be major red flags

38:57

for any professional that

39:00

doesn't have this kind of agenda. And somehow this

39:02

was all pushed to the side. And I think

39:04

that is the most baffling part to me. The

39:07

fact that all of this going on and

39:09

them knowing about it, not

39:11

once did they decide to push back

39:13

or at least just say, hey, wait,

39:15

you're going through a lot right now.

39:18

Let's work on that. So

39:20

let's talk about how the medical complex got involved.

39:22

So you're at this point in our story on

39:25

Instagram and these other websites all the time.

39:28

Your parents are not paying attention to this

39:30

at the moment. And

39:32

what's the next step for you in

39:34

saying out loud, I quote,

39:36

think I'm a boy or, you know, how

39:38

did you start taking it next level? So

39:42

at that point, I had already been

39:44

seeing the posts on my social media

39:46

about like, oh, if you, you

39:48

know, disliking your period can be a sign

39:50

that you're trans, it might mean you're a

39:53

boy born in the wrong body, essentially priming

39:55

with that, that sort of messaging

39:57

about disconnect from your body or

39:59

feeling comfortable with you. your body.

40:01

But at the time, as my

40:03

mental health was spiraling, I actually

40:05

ended up doing multiple sessions in

40:07

what is called a partial hospitalization

40:09

program. It is a step down

40:11

from inpatient. This was

40:13

all during my freshman year of high school. And

40:16

it was during one of those sessions that

40:19

I brought up,

40:22

I wonder, I wonder if I'm actually a

40:24

boy. And it

40:26

was like I said the magic

40:28

word when I brought up

40:30

the gender topic. Because suddenly, there was

40:32

an easy explanation for professionals as to

40:34

why I was struggling in all these

40:37

other areas. There was an easy essentially

40:39

band-aid to slap on top of all

40:41

these other issues I was having that

40:43

would have been much harder and a

40:45

much longer process to work for. And

40:48

everything else seemingly got pushed to the

40:50

wayside. So what

40:53

did they say on this? These were

40:55

like psychiatrists? Or what were the

40:57

credentials of the people you were

41:00

dealing with? These were therapists, psychiatrists,

41:02

nurses, think any, essentially anyone you

41:04

would see in an inpatient hospitalization

41:06

program for mental health, just in like, it

41:08

wasn't like a place for trans people.

41:11

It was just no, it was for mental health. You

41:13

mentioned the trans thing and all of them were like,

41:15

yes. Yes,

41:17

it was I mentioned, hey, I like I'm seeing

41:20

this stuff that saying like, Oh, if I feel

41:22

this way, that might mean I'm a boy. What

41:24

if I think I'm a boy? And like

41:28

I said, it was like I said, the magic

41:30

words. And

41:32

that was the only topic that was really focused

41:35

on from then on out. How

41:37

long from that time to when

41:40

you started taking I imagine

41:42

puberty blockers and then testosterone?

41:46

So at that point,

41:48

I after my last stint

41:50

in the partial hospitalization program,

41:53

I was then recommended to go see a

41:56

therapist who works with gender

41:58

diversity on the people. And

42:03

from there, once again, it was affirmation

42:05

only. And after

42:08

seeing her for a bit, the first like

42:11

medical intervention, like physical medical

42:13

intervention I ever had was

42:15

the double mastectomy at 16.

42:17

Before anything else. Before

42:20

any hormones. Before

42:22

any hormones. I was never on

42:24

puberty blockers because I was a little bit

42:26

too old at that point for them to

42:28

stunt anything. But

42:31

the first medical intervention I had was

42:33

the surgery. What

42:36

did your parents say? They

42:38

were scared. They were scared and

42:41

they trusted medical professionals who at that

42:43

point had given them no reason to

42:46

distrust them. They sounded sure.

42:48

They sounded like this was a

42:50

well settled scientific fact that this

42:53

was the only path forward. And

42:56

of course, if you're a parent and you care

42:58

about your child, you see that your child is

43:00

suffering, especially when they

43:02

bring up the risk of possible suicide.

43:04

If you don't move forward with something

43:06

like this. Of

43:08

course, they're going to look at a professional

43:11

who is offering to help and seem so

43:13

sure in what they're doing and trust that

43:15

person. This is

43:17

such a common story, Mary Margaret. I'm sure you heard

43:19

this with all of the folks you talked to where

43:22

they scare the parents into compliance.

43:25

Yes. And it is frankly a

43:27

threat. The line that they give

43:30

to every parent, would you rather have a

43:32

dead daughter or a living son? And it's

43:34

framed as this compassionate, you know,

43:36

kind of warning, but I view it as a

43:38

death threat. You know, they're saying, if you

43:41

don't do this for your child, your

43:43

child will die because of you. And

43:45

what a manipulative horrible thing to say

43:47

to any parent who like Luke was

43:50

saying, these parents all care about

43:52

their kids. You know, there

43:54

definitely are cases where there are very,

43:56

very bad parents who are purposefully doing

43:58

this to their children. children out of

44:00

a desire for attention or

44:02

something worse. But in many

44:05

cases, these parents are victims of gender ideology

44:07

as well and they want to do what's

44:09

best for their daughters and they think these

44:11

medical professionals know what they're talking about, how

44:14

should I know better than them? And so

44:16

they trust just like Luca trusted, like her

44:18

parents trusted and then when they

44:20

get to the other side, I'm sure

44:22

Luca can share they're abandoned. There's no

44:25

one to trust anymore because they were

44:27

betrayed and the people that they trusted

44:29

don't want anything to do with them

44:31

because for someone like Luca going

44:33

back to the medical professionals who did

44:36

this to her, she is living evidence

44:38

that they failed, that their efforts are

44:40

experimental and so they don't want, they

44:43

don't want to interact with her. Oh

44:45

I'm sure again this

44:47

story and others told in Mary

44:50

Margaret O'Lanhan's new book, D-Trans, true

44:52

stories of escaping the gender ideology

44:54

cult which is available for pre-order

44:56

right now. So Luca,

44:58

you have a double mastectomy. I

45:01

assume you're living sort

45:03

of as a boy right? You're you know presenting

45:06

now as male okay

45:08

and then whatever that means.

45:11

Yeah did you start testosterone

45:14

after that? Yes

45:17

so I had I had the double mastectomy

45:19

in July and then November of that same

45:21

year I was put on testosterone. And

45:24

how long were you on that for? I

45:27

took that for four years. Wow.

45:31

From 16 to 20. What

45:34

did it do to you? It

45:37

made my voice deeper, it changed

45:39

my skin and hair texture, it

45:42

gave me really bad like acne.

45:47

It made like

45:49

body hair texture change.

45:51

It essentially also just

45:53

launched my teenage body

45:55

into a chemically induced

45:57

menopause. Right.

46:00

Just chaos. It just seems like you're

46:03

taking a God-given natural-born system

46:05

and creating utter

46:07

chaos in it. What

46:12

were those four years like before I get to the

46:14

detransitioning piece? What describe your

46:16

happiness, your interactions, your life for those

46:19

four years? I

46:23

tried my best throughout those four years.

46:25

And to a certain extent, when you

46:27

have everyone around you telling you this

46:30

is the right thing, you should be

46:32

so happy, you should feel good about

46:34

this. Of course, there is a level

46:36

of placebo to that. Of course, when

46:39

everyone around you is affirming this and

46:41

telling you you're right and that this

46:44

is the good thing to do, of course

46:46

you're going to go along with that. Especially

46:49

after having just come off such

46:52

an awful time in your life where you were

46:54

at your lowest. And

46:58

of course, you have the effect that

47:00

testosterone is a steroid.

47:02

It's going to give you energy. You're going

47:04

to feel good. It was that mixed with all

47:06

the other mental health medications I was on at

47:08

the time. But

47:11

looking back at it,

47:13

I didn't realize just how

47:16

disconnected I felt from everything

47:18

in my life until

47:20

I detransitioned. Disassociated

47:22

from my physical self, from just

47:25

everything, everyone around me. To

47:32

the point where I was so

47:35

disassociated from myself throughout those

47:37

years that when it all

47:39

came crashing back down, it felt

47:42

like the emotional gloam line of being hit

47:44

by a bus essentially. People

47:48

often confuse gender with sexuality. They're

47:51

two separate highways. And

47:54

just because you think you're trans

47:56

doesn't mean your sexuality changes

47:58

at all. So you

48:00

were a straight girl when this all started,

48:02

as I understand it, yes? Um,

48:06

I suppose more or less. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

48:08

Okay. Um, and then you,

48:10

you start transitioning or for four years

48:13

you're living quote, as a boy, and during

48:15

that time, I mean, most 16

48:17

to 20 year old young girls are

48:20

starting to have some hormones kick in

48:22

for sexual attraction, whoever you're

48:24

attracted to, whether you're lesbian or you're a,

48:26

you're straight. Was that happening? And

48:28

was it confusing given

48:31

what you were doing over here in the gender lane?

48:35

Um, it was

48:38

confusing in, in like, there's, there's two

48:40

separate aspects. I suppose I could divide

48:42

this into, you have the, the aspect

48:44

of, okay, my body is being pumped

48:46

with high amounts of testosterone

48:49

and that's just wreaking havoc on

48:51

everything and making everything very confusing

48:53

and kind of warping, um,

48:57

any attraction I had. And then you had,

48:59

you had the aspect of

49:02

just navigating the

49:05

world like that. And

49:07

also not knowing what

49:09

to do because of the fact

49:11

that the, you know, the, the

49:13

sexual trauma I had was never

49:15

addressed in favor of the gender

49:17

thing. So then you have essentially

49:20

a, you know, 16 to 19

49:22

year old who doesn't really have

49:24

a picture of what healthy relationships

49:26

look, looks like has these raging

49:28

wrong hormones in her body

49:31

that are throwing everything out

49:33

of whack. Who's

49:35

on mental health medication that is

49:37

also throwing everything there out of

49:40

balance. And just

49:42

a very confusing time where there

49:45

never was a serious relationship in any of

49:47

that, because I don't think at the time

49:49

that would have been possible given what was

49:52

happening. This is so

49:54

cool. So what was

49:56

it? What did it for you, Luca, where

49:58

you were like, wrong. choice

50:00

because I don't want this. I

50:04

grew up a little and I think

50:06

that is the most simple way to put it is

50:08

I grew up. I

50:11

grew up and I was able to

50:13

think about the world and my future

50:15

in ways that just were not possible

50:17

at 16 years old because I was

50:20

a 16 year old. You

50:23

know, we don't necessarily consider teenagers the

50:26

ones with the best long term decision

50:28

making in the things they do. But

50:32

it was a combination of that is like the

50:34

overarching theme. It's just I grew up and then

50:36

you got into the other aspects of okay, I'm

50:38

able to think about do I

50:40

want children? Do I want

50:43

my serious relationships to look like? You

50:46

have the health complications at that point

50:48

I was experiencing from testosterone and then

50:50

you have another overarching theme of I

50:54

don't want to be chained to a

50:56

medical industry. I want my freedom.

50:58

I want to be able to go places.

51:00

I want to be able to not be

51:02

reliant on this medication that is now at

51:04

this point hurting me. What's

51:08

the story normally? Like in your experience,

51:10

Mary Margaret, is

51:12

there a trigger for most detransitioners

51:15

so they know they're done? Like how does the

51:17

light bulb come on? I

51:20

found it was kind of different in

51:22

a lot of cases like Helena Kirshner

51:24

was in a relationship with another girl

51:26

who identified as a transgender

51:28

man and that person

51:31

made Helena a slideshow of

51:33

their relationship and Helena saw

51:35

how she had gone from

51:37

being this kind of happy

51:39

teenager to just being this

51:41

really sad hurting person

51:43

and she saw visible photos of this

51:45

and it made her just kind of

51:47

crack and realize oh my gosh, look

51:50

what I have done here. Here's where I am. I'm

51:52

sobbing and that was her realization moment. But

51:56

I think for some of the other people that I've

51:58

been talking to, kind of like

52:00

Luca shared, it was more of a moment

52:02

of, I'm not feeling better and then, oh,

52:04

is there

52:06

something wrong here? Why am I not feeling

52:08

better? I was told that I would find

52:10

happiness on the other side of this. And

52:12

that's something I brought up a lot actually.

52:14

And Luca, maybe you can chime in

52:17

on this, is the idea

52:19

that happiness is on the other

52:21

side of the hell that is

52:23

this surgical and medical transition. You

52:25

know, that doctors are

52:27

telling young people, you will be happy

52:30

if you go through all of this, not just that

52:32

you will be a man. And that's

52:35

not something that we tell people in any

52:38

medical field, you know, that you will be

52:40

happy if you get this breast

52:43

augmentation or something like that. That's just not

52:45

how medical professionals speak. And

52:47

yet that is what is being

52:49

sold to these young people, often young people

52:51

who are looking for identity, they're looking for

52:53

happiness. I mean, that's a human thing, right?

52:56

Like we're all searching for happiness at the

52:58

end of the day. And so to harness

53:00

that desire, that very human desire is

53:03

evil. And that is what

53:05

these medical professionals have been doing.

53:08

Luca, can I, can you just say, Zoe,

53:10

you get to this point and

53:13

ultimately you do a very smart

53:15

thing, which is hire our pal,

53:18

Harmeet Dylan, who is a

53:20

brilliant lawyer and one

53:23

of the few who's truly unafraid to go

53:25

after true villains. And so

53:27

who are you suing? I

53:31

am suing the main

53:34

gender clinic doctor, the therapist that wrote

53:36

all my letters and was the first

53:38

to like really affirm me the one

53:40

I mentioned earlier. And

53:43

then also the surgeon who performed the double mastectomy.

53:47

And are your parents relieved now

53:49

that you've transitioned back? I

53:53

think in some ways

53:55

that was, you know, a very

53:58

hard conversation to have. I'm

54:03

telling my mom that felt

54:05

like the emotional equivalent of slapping

54:07

her in the face. Because

54:09

I knew me telling her that would

54:11

hurt her. And that's

54:13

not something anyone wants to be. Because

54:15

she wanted you to be a boy

54:18

or because she participated in all of this? Because

54:21

she had her reservations and

54:24

was not listened to. By

54:26

me, any reservations she had

54:29

were squashed out by the

54:32

therapists and the doctors. And

54:35

having someone who had that protective

54:37

instinct and tried to say something.

54:40

And then coming back years later and

54:42

going, you were right, I should

54:45

have listened to you. And knowing

54:48

that in her heart, that must

54:50

hurt. Knowing that everything

54:53

happened and she was

54:55

correct. It

54:58

was one of the lowest

55:01

moments, I think, that conversation

55:03

on the phone. To

55:06

the point where it started out with she

55:08

picked up the phone and

55:10

I broke down. I was sobbing

55:12

to the point where she was like, are you

55:14

okay? Did someone

55:16

attack you? Because she thought it

55:18

was that bad that something else was going on.

55:21

And the answer was yes. The

55:23

answer is yes. Someone

55:26

did attack me. Someone with a scalpel

55:28

in a surgeon's gown pretending

55:31

to be a surgeon who took

55:33

the Hippocratic Oath. Before

55:36

I let you go, because we've got to wrap it up,

55:38

but before I let you go, what is your advice, Luca,

55:40

to other kids

55:43

out there who are being

55:45

tempted by this same messaging and

55:48

their parents who are being sold

55:50

the lie about the suicide threats?

55:55

To the young people, it would be you are

55:58

going to do... so much

56:00

growing and so much, you know,

56:03

finding yourself and finding what you're

56:06

interested in, especially in your teenage

56:08

years, don't let

56:10

those years become consumed by a

56:12

medical industry that does not care

56:14

about you. And

56:17

then to the parents, I

56:19

suppose I would just say in a

56:21

world that wants you

56:23

to always say yes to your child,

56:26

know that always saying yes is not

56:28

an act of love. And sometimes just

56:31

putting your foot down and saying no

56:33

for weight and

56:35

setting that boundary is

56:37

the most loving thing you can do for your

56:40

child. You

56:42

gave me the chills. Thank you.

56:44

Thank you for telling your story. God bless you.

56:47

I hope you do great on this

56:49

new path and I'm really awed by

56:51

your courage in telling the story. Thank

56:53

you. Thank you. Mary

56:56

Margaret, thanks to you too. Wow. I can

56:58

see why you were in tears a lot on these interviews

57:01

and when writing this book, please support

57:03

the effort and read more because there

57:05

are so many heartbreaking stories in here,

57:07

but also important, important

57:09

telling ones and a guide really

57:11

for parents and kids too on

57:14

how it happened and

57:16

what to look out for. Again, the book

57:18

is D-trans, true stories of escaping a gender

57:20

ideology cult. I'm Mary Margaret

57:23

Olinon, all about you. Thank

57:25

you so much. Thank

57:27

you. Thanks

57:32

for listening to the Megan Kelly Show.

57:34

No BS, no agenda and no fear.