0:06

Hello and welcome to another episode

0:08

of the measured golf podcast , where I

0:10

, michael Dutro , sit down and talk

0:12

all things golf with some amazing guests . And

0:14

today we are very fortunate because not

0:16

only has this person

0:18

had amazing success being a coach

0:20

, but also amazing success as a player

0:22

as well , including winning not

0:24

only at the junior level , but also at

0:26

the college level and professional

0:29

level . So this person , without a

0:31

doubt , is no stranger to doing

0:33

amazing things with a golf club in her hand , and

0:35

she has done an amazing job helping a lot

0:38

of young golfers out there as well with

0:40

being the head coach for the Team

0:43

Canada women's team . So , without

0:45

further ado , we've got Salima

0:47

Musani from Team Canada

0:49

today and we're very fortunate . Salima , would

0:51

you like to say hello ?

0:53

Yeah , no problem , thanks . Thanks for having

0:56

me , michael , and yeah

0:58

, excited to see where this conversation goes .

1:01

Yeah , I think it's going to be fun . I mean , I

1:03

was kind of introduced to you through

1:06

some of the players that you work with at

1:08

Michigan and some of the influence

1:10

that you have from Team Canada's perspective

1:13

, and I've really kind of been blown away

1:15

since I got to know you . I think it's really

1:17

cool what you do and I think your story

1:19

is incredible . I mean , it's never

1:21

easy to achieve and it's even

1:23

harder when you have other obstacles in your way

1:26

, and I mean you've just kind of really

1:28

had this cool career to where you've had success

1:30

at just about every level . That's pretty amazing .

1:33

Yeah , I mean , it's part of the journey . I

1:35

feel very , very fortunate that golf entered my

1:37

life and the places it's taken

1:40

me Obviously never would

1:42

have thought this is where I'd end up , but it

1:44

all makes sense at the end of the day . Yeah

1:47

, as a player , as a junior golfer , the dream

1:49

was obviously the LPGA and I

1:51

got a little taste of that through

1:54

my playing career . And

1:57

now , you know , circumstances have brought me into

1:59

the coaching world and , yeah , I haven't

2:01

really looked back .

2:03

Have you got to the point yet where you're ready

2:06

to say whether you enjoyed being

2:08

a player or a coach more , or are you

2:10

still kind of figuring that out ?

2:12

Yeah , there's moments , I mean , I definitely miss playing

2:15

. There's definitely moments where I wish I

2:17

could still be playing and be out there with doing

2:19

what these girls are doing . But

2:22

I know my health kind of holds

2:24

me back from that and I have tried . I did

2:26

quit coaching the first time when I was in Stanford

2:28

to go play again and I had

2:30

to swallow that big pill and

2:34

really get the . I

2:36

was like that's fine , it's like you really

2:38

just can't do this anymore . But

2:40

I tried . I gave it everything I had

2:43

and I fought through the highs and the lows

2:45

and I brought all that

2:47

wealth of experience and all the

2:49

things I went through into what I'm doing

2:51

today .

2:51

It's really tough , though , right , I mean

2:54

, I think what you're talking about doesn't get talked

2:56

about enough with athletes and it's like

2:58

you know , we all have the dreams

3:00

of winning majors and like making millions

3:02

of dollars and all of that . But at the end of the day , very

3:05

few of us do that and most of us unfortunately

3:07

kind of have to retire before we're

3:09

ready , if you will , because we can't

3:12

keep the skill level up or the output level

3:14

where we need it to be to compete . And

3:16

it's really tough , I think , I mean especially

3:18

if that athlete doesn't know what the next thing

3:20

is going to be for them . So I'm kind

3:22

of curious did , at the end of that

3:24

second stint of your playing career where you kind

3:27

of knew like you were done

3:29

for good this time , maybe did

3:31

you kind of think about going into coaching

3:33

slightly differently than you had before and like

3:35

, hey , now I'm actually going to like devote

3:37

my time to being a coach , or was

3:39

there really no thought to that and you just kind of changed

3:42

roles ?

3:43

Yeah , I actually , once I stopped

3:45

playing I didn't go directly to

3:48

coaching . I actually

3:50

went down a couple other avenues . I went

3:52

and did some business development at a startup

3:55

, I became a financial advisor

3:57

, I worked in the hotel

3:59

business , I did a few

4:01

really random things and I was just teaching

4:03

on the side because people knew

4:05

I was a golfer and I obviously had

4:07

been coaching at Stanford . So I

4:09

was just teaching in the evenings for fun , and

4:12

then it's all . I got back into it by

4:15

the way . Yeah , I was just

4:17

doing it for fun , to satisfy

4:19

a few people basically , and

4:22

I quickly realized that , like this is where

4:24

my passion is . I mean , I've

4:26

invested so much of my life into like getting

4:28

myself better . I know what

4:30

it takes , I know the steps and

4:33

, yeah , just the balance

4:35

kind of just shifted . The lessons were here and the

4:38

financial advising work was heavier and then it just

4:40

slowly tipped and I was having way

4:42

more fun being at the driving range and

4:44

I was getting a lot more referrals . I didn't have

4:46

to do those cold calls , I didn't have to chase people

4:48

to like sign the documents and make a deal

4:51

. Yeah , it was kind of

4:53

a in that way . It was a slow but

4:55

quick transition . I did

4:57

that other stuff for a couple of years before

5:00

I just gave it up fully . But yeah

5:03

, it's been so

5:05

. To answer your question , I didn't really think about it

5:07

, it just kind of happened . But

5:10

I have , in the process I've

5:12

definitely grown a lot . I've learned a lot more . When

5:14

I first started teaching , I was very like teaching

5:17

kind of just my own ways and what I when

5:19

I knew and thought . Since then I've

5:21

learned a lot . I watch everything , you

5:24

pick up bits here and there you learn from different

5:26

people and kind of create

5:29

your own style .

5:30

How much of you the

5:32

weird question maybe , but like how much do you

5:34

think you've grown personally , as

5:37

you've kind of grown as a coach , and what I mean by

5:39

that is I'll use myself as an example I

5:42

kind of had my thoughts about myself

5:44

and everything as a young man and then

5:46

, as I became more competent at

5:48

coaching and learned more things , like

5:50

that growth mindset kind of bled into my

5:53

personal life too and like I

5:55

really was able to find myself and find

5:57

my happiness through coaching , kind of like

5:59

you're describing . I'm wondering if you didn't

6:01

kind of have a similar experience that way

6:03

.

6:04

Yeah , I think definitely

6:06

the growth mindset is I mean , never

6:09

mind as a coach , but as an athlete , as

6:12

a human having a growth mindset is absolutely

6:15

necessary . But

6:18

yeah , I think that I've

6:20

definitely in my personal life , I am

6:23

always learning , I'm always trying , I'm trying . I was growing

6:26

. I do a lot of volunteer work with

6:28

my community and , yeah

6:30

, definitely having a growth mindset , I have

6:32

to work with a lot of different people . You have to come

6:34

up with lots of ideas , strategies

6:37

, put on events

6:39

. But yeah , it's definitely

6:42

something that I kind of incorporate

6:44

in my whole life and it's

6:47

important to have

6:49

that , just as a human

6:51

trying to get better .

6:53

Yeah , I mean , and that's what you know

6:55

, I just got back from the PGA show a couple of

6:57

weeks ago and you know

6:59

you know me , selima you're probably talking

7:01

to one of the biggest golf geek nerd

7:03

guys out there and I love data and

7:06

I love all the tech and I use it nonstop

7:08

. But at the same time it's like

7:10

I kind of feel like that growth mindset

7:12

is almost getting stripped out of the game a little bit

7:14

, because so many people are

7:16

trying to force so many young players into

7:19

these boxes and

7:21

like hey , you got to produce this data set

7:23

to be a good golfer and we know that . You

7:26

know , at the highest of levels there's so much variance

7:28

and there isn't truly one way that they all

7:30

go about doing it . So I'm

7:32

just kind of curious , like you

7:34

know , what do you see looking

7:36

at it ? Because you kind of get to look at it from a lot

7:38

larger viewpoint than most . You know , working

7:41

with Team Canada . But like , where

7:43

do you kind of see like golf development going right

7:45

now , selima ? Like you , do you

7:47

think it's moving in a positive direction

7:49

? Do you think we're actually having a positive impact

7:52

or do you think we're using the technology in

7:54

a way to where maybe we're not helping as much as we

7:56

could be .

7:58

That's a really good question . I

8:00

think if we just look

8:02

at golf in general and golf growth

8:04

and development , it has changed a ton , even

8:06

from the time when I was a junior right If we go

8:08

back 30 years , you

8:11

know we didn't have Trackman , we didn't have

8:13

Bushnells , we didn't have , we had

8:15

to trust the sprinkler heads on the ground . We had

8:18

to look at our ball flight , we had to

8:20

make the adjustments and figure out what to do , not

8:22

based on club path and attack angles

8:24

and face angles and spin rates

8:26

and all that good stuff . You know low points

8:29

, but we had to figure it out on our own

8:31

. And so I think a lot of the learning is

8:33

lost with

8:35

the Trackman and I think for

8:37

us as coaches , it's our duty to , you

8:40

know , continue to make our players

8:42

learn , the ones who are becoming successful

8:45

to be honest , I

8:48

like to call them , like , the expert learners and

8:51

then you know , the key ingredient to being an expert

8:53

learner is again coming back to the

8:55

original question is growth mindset

8:57

, I mean being flexible enough

8:59

and knowing , and so I think some of the

9:01

onus .

9:02

Oh , you're right . I mean you got to have

9:04

some failure mixed in there .

9:07

Yeah , I mean our men's

9:09

national coach told me this quote while

9:11

back , Derek Ingram , and he

9:14

said success leaves clues , and

9:16

I mean you can use that at all different

9:19

levels , right ? Success by winning a tournament

9:21

, success in hitting the shot you want

9:23

, Success in carrying out a habit

9:25

? I mean there's ways in

9:28

which we get these things done . Everybody

9:30

has their own way , and I mean sometimes

9:32

for some players the box approach might be the

9:35

way and it might get them , you know , to the

9:37

level that is the highest for them . But I

9:40

think that there's a . There's

9:42

definitely some onus on us coaches to challenge

9:44

our players and to let them

9:46

fail , like you're saying . Let them fail , let

9:48

them learn the hard way , let them challenge

9:51

them , make them

9:55

frustrated . But you definitely have to think

9:57

outside the box a little bit , because if

10:00

the girls are not learning and

10:02

you're just telling them what to do , you're

10:05

going to hit a plateau at some point where they become too

10:07

dependent or they don't have a way to

10:09

make those fixes on their own .

10:11

What I see a lot of . I see a lot

10:14

of dependency on

10:17

the tech to tell them what went wrong

10:19

, and I think , maybe

10:21

stealing a little bit

10:23

from what you just said , I think

10:25

the reason for that perhaps is

10:27

because , to your point , they don't have to dig

10:30

it out of the dirt , so like they get

10:32

that instantaneous feedback oh okay

10:34

, this is how I do it . And because

10:36

they didn't have to figure that out on

10:38

their own and go through that process of learning

10:40

, they don't really they're not nearly

10:43

as well adjusted for when it goes a little awry

10:45

, maybe .

10:46

Yeah , and I mean look the track

10:48

man and the data . It makes practice more efficient

10:50

, like let's be honest , right , Like I don't have

10:53

to go and spend an hour hitting balls to figure

10:55

something out and five swings

10:57

I mean , you don't need to really hit more than five

10:59

balls to know what the pattern is , and

11:01

especially for an elite player . So

11:03

I think

11:05

that efficiency is definitely improved

11:07

and I think that's why you're seeing more and more good golfers

11:09

, because they're just learning quicker

11:12

. I mean , they're getting better , faster because

11:15

of technology , agreed , but

11:17

yeah , I think when it comes

11:20

to high level , elite performance , you

11:22

need to be able to make adjustments . I mean , on

11:24

the PGA Tour , lpga Tour , the players that are

11:26

winning are the ones that make the best adjustments

11:29

the quickest , and you

11:32

have to . Golf is not a game of perfect . We all know that

11:34

. You're not going to go out there and

11:36

hit all every shot exactly

11:38

how you wanted to , and

11:41

so being able to , you know

11:43

, create shots , being able to make those adjustments

11:45

, those are all things you have to do outside

11:47

of the technical . You know , machine

11:50

.

11:50

That's what I think it gets lost

11:53

in the sauce coach . And

11:55

what I mean by that is like I had Kevin Rhodes

11:57

on who's the men's coach at Harvard

11:59

and we were talking

12:02

about his players and

12:04

we were kind of talking about how , like because they're

12:06

people that are at Harvard like there's certain

12:09

things you don't have to tell them . Like you don't have to tell

12:11

a kid that goes to Harvard to study Like they

12:13

, that already comes with the territory right . So

12:15

like he doesn't have to necessarily

12:17

, even though grades are very , very important

12:19

at Harvard , he doesn't necessarily have

12:22

to tell those kids how to make those grades because that

12:24

already goes . Like that's just one of those

12:26

core competencies that you have to have to be

12:28

there and at your level , I would

12:30

imagine and I certainly don't want to put words in your

12:32

mouth , but when you're looking at players

12:34

and evaluating , like I can't imagine that you're

12:37

like leaning over to see the track

12:39

man . I can't imagine that you're wanting to

12:41

see the force plate graphs , Like you're

12:43

out there watching them play , and

12:45

I think that that's really

12:47

what's getting lost right now is there's

12:50

a million kids out there that can go out and

12:52

shoot . A million shoot even par . I

12:54

see it all the time If you look at AJGA fields

12:56

, there's always like a ton of kids right

12:58

around par but then they don't really

13:00

learn how to take that next step per se right

13:03

To where they start breaking par pretty regularly . So

13:05

I'm just kind of curious like where

13:08

is the disconnect and where are

13:10

? Where are we as coaches

13:12

needing to elevate our games to where

13:14

we can change this narrative with

13:17

junior golfers , to where it's not about

13:19

having perfect data ? That's great

13:21

, Like we need to see some good stuff there , but

13:24

we also need to learn how to go out and play

13:26

and be creative and be responsive

13:28

and being able to like emotionally regulate

13:30

on a golf course , Like I think that skills kind of overlooked

13:33

a lot .

13:34

Yeah , I mean , sending your players out to play

13:36

is key , whether

13:38

it's just in practice or playing competition

13:41

, especially at the junior level . It's definitely

13:43

, definitely important . And

13:45

you know the work that we've done with

13:47

Ian Highfield and Zach Parker with the

13:49

game , like training and like pushing

13:52

the girls and challenging them , putting them through

13:54

things that are frustrating , things , that are hard , things

13:57

that they don't want to do or that they're like you

13:59

know this is too much or you know it's

14:03

that's part of it . Right , forcing them

14:06

to have these emotions and forcing them to feel

14:08

these things is part of the growth . It's

14:10

part of the plan not

14:13

making them want to do it , but this stuff

14:15

is all important , it's

14:17

all like it's

14:19

necessary for growth , it's necessary for

14:22

learning and that's where the

14:24

transference comes , because when they're on

14:27

the golf course and they're playing for their National Amateur

14:29

Championship or they're playing at the US Open

14:31

, they're going to have feelings and they're going

14:33

to have sensations that they

14:36

haven't practiced . But if they have an idea

14:38

of how to handle these and manage these , then you know

14:40

they're one step ahead

14:43

of the next person .

14:44

So , like you know , kind of like we were talking about

14:46

earlier , salima , you know so many kids

14:48

I think especially in my space , to where

14:51

I'm indoors you know they kind of know

14:53

what they want these numbers to be and

14:55

when they , when they create those numbers right

14:57

, because we're in a simulated environment and they're calm

15:00

they get the result that they're expecting

15:02

. But then they go out onto the golf course , right

15:04

, and they more or less feel like , hey , I did everything

15:06

I was supposed to do and then the shot

15:09

didn't work out and it's like , okay , well

15:11

, there's more to playing golf

15:13

than just hitting a golf ball , right . So you know , what

15:15

is it that we can do to

15:18

try to simulate better transference

15:20

of skills and better training that leads

15:22

to better tournament results ? Getting

15:24

them onto the golf course , I mean , how do we

15:26

go about doing this , do you think ?

15:30

Yeah , this is a great thing . This

15:32

is what affects the transference and

15:34

being able to meet the moment

15:36

, so to speak . Right , that's

15:38

what we're doing is training our players to meet the moment . We don't know

15:40

when that moment's going to come , what it's going to be , but

15:43

we can help to prepare them

15:46

for those moments , and

15:48

a lot of that's going to come through creating

15:51

the spacing effect , creating

15:53

context , the psychological

15:56

pressures . These are all things

15:58

that if you don't have the context Ian

16:00

Highfield once gave the example

16:03

of you're training for a triathlon you're not

16:05

going to practice swimming in a bathtub . That's

16:08

not the context , right ? So

16:10

through giving them these game-like training simulation

16:14

situations , they're able

16:16

to feel we can set it up where they're

16:18

competing against each other , you can set it up with a

16:20

time limit and have a goal

16:22

. But it helps them to just get

16:25

off the driving range flat , lie same

16:29

condition over and over , and it forces

16:31

them to move around . It forces them to create

16:33

spacing . So hitting

16:35

14 drivers on the driving range in a row is

16:38

not transferable , because

16:40

we don't ever do that , we don't ever get a chance

16:42

to hit the 14 shots . So

16:44

their principle of learning is all about

16:47

losing a feeling and recalling it . So , as you're

16:49

doing , let's say you have a player

16:51

, you want them to do a combine on Trackman

16:53

, instead of just doing the combine

16:56

and hitting 10 , 12 , 15 iron

16:58

shots , spread it out , set

17:00

the Trackman up , have them hit a driver through

17:02

a gate that you create . Come

17:05

to the combine , hit the approach shot , go

17:08

hit a chip or go hit a putt . Come

17:10

back , hit the drive , go hit your second shot

17:12

on the combine . So now , when

17:14

you get your final combine results , it's

17:17

a little more realistic of

17:19

what they would do in a tournament versus . Okay

17:21

, I've now hit 15 iron shots in a

17:23

row . I have a feeling I'm just

17:25

going to keep recreating this over and over with my four

17:27

iron , my eight iron , my wedge . It's

17:30

forcing them to lose it and come back and

17:32

recall it , which , as we know , is

17:34

what they have to do on the golf course . So

17:37

for us that's been a game

17:39

changer , just introducing

17:41

this into their practice . Some of them love it , some of them

17:43

hate it .

17:44

I'm . You know , I'm fortunate enough to be a Trackman

17:46

master and I own several Trackman units and

17:50

I've always been dead set against the combine

17:52

. I don't like it , and

17:54

the reason I don't like it is because it puts the target

17:56

score out there . That's not achievable and

17:58

I don't like doing something to where the failure rates

18:00

100% of the time . So

18:03

for me , like we've created combines but we create

18:05

a free to individual player based off how far they hit

18:07

it , which , in our opinion , is way

18:09

more transferable than just , you know

18:11

, having kids do a test that they can't . You

18:13

know , for some of my kids to hit a shot 180 yards

18:16

, you know they're hitting a freaking hybrid .

18:18

Yeah , yeah , or a free one .

18:20

Or they're a driver and it's

18:22

kind of wild . So at the end of the day

18:24

, I like what you're saying there and the

18:26

thing I'm the most curious about is

18:28

you said something really cool there , which was meet the

18:30

moment , and I think that that's a really

18:33

a really big thought

18:35

. But I think it's a thought that really

18:37

doesn't get enough daylight with

18:40

. Training athletes right is preparing

18:42

them for what's going to happen . And we don't

18:45

know what's going to happen . We don't know the experience

18:48

and the emotions that they're going to have . But

18:50

if we give them ways of learning how to

18:52

manage these things , then they can

18:54

meet that moment and adjust to that moment . So

18:56

I'm kind of curious from a playing perspective

18:59

. You've played on some pretty darn big stages

19:01

and you've won a lot . I mean , were you

19:04

prepared for every single moment out there

19:06

, selima , or did a few things ?

19:08

sneak up ? Absolutely not , absolutely

19:10

not . I mean I

19:12

could tell a story of you know

19:14

, my win on the Epson tour back

19:17

in the day . It was the major . I

19:20

definitely was not ready for it . I

19:23

lost my breakfast on the driving

19:25

range . You

19:29

know , I actually did my caddy like

19:31

dragged the pyramid of balls and like just

19:33

covered it up and was like , okay , let's keep going

19:35

.

19:37

Yeah , it's , you know that's what

19:39

happened right right before you threw up Selima

19:41

, like what was going through your head . I'm curious .

19:44

Like I was . I was feeling I don't remember

19:46

exactly . I was remember us feeling like unsettled , Like

19:48

normally for me . I'm nervous . I show up at the golf

19:50

course . As soon as I hit a putt or hit a shot , I'm

19:53

settled . I'm like back in my element . I'm

19:55

like , okay , I know how to do this . All the thoughts

19:58

and dreams of like I'm never going to , I'm not going to know how to

20:00

hit a golf ball when I get out there , you know , like all

20:02

these things used to cross my mind . I

20:05

remember very , very clearly and

20:07

then , as soon as I'd hit a ball on the range , I'm like , oh yeah

20:09

, I know exactly what I'm doing . Like

20:11

what , what was I freaking out about ? But that morning

20:13

in particular , it was the fourth round . It was a

20:16

, the only four round tournament . It was the major

20:18

on the back . Then it was the futures tour

20:20

, but on

20:22

the Epson . And , yeah

20:24

, I remember going to tee up the first ball , Like

20:26

I'd been scraping irons and warming up

20:28

. And then I went to tee up a three wood and

20:31

I , like you know , bent over to tee it up and

20:33

boom like that was

20:35

it . But I mean , I felt much better after and

20:37

I just kind of moved on . But

20:42

I wasn't like I wasn't psychologically

20:44

ready to meet that moment , like I didn't have

20:46

a sports performance person , I didn't have

20:48

anybody helping me . My

20:51

coach at the time , sean Foley , had actually left

20:53

a voicemail at

20:55

the pro shop basically saying like

20:57

you've worked your whole life , you're not going

20:59

to lose your skills overnight . You

21:02

still have everything you've ever had , like go

21:04

do your thing .

21:06

And that was kind of the I'm like Sean . I mean

21:08

, that sounds pretty much spot on like Sean

21:10

.

21:11

Yeah , that was the validation that we need . I need

21:13

it Right .

21:15

I know what I'm doing during the round .

21:17

Just another day .

21:19

Did you think about that message from Sean ?

21:22

I don't remember specifically , but I'm sure I did

21:24

. I remember having one swing thought out . I still

21:26

remember that swing thought I had that day and

21:29

I , yeah , I

21:31

just kind of went out there and did my

21:33

thing and trusted , and you know

21:35

, you kind of I don't even remember telling myself

21:37

like , oh , you're , you've been preparing for this whole moment

21:39

your whole life , but it just kind of happens

21:42

. It just kind of happened and

21:44

but now , now we have all the

21:46

parameters right , like we know , we

21:49

can kind of set them up , we can recreate

21:51

them , we can help the girls

21:54

to to find these ways of excelling

21:57

. But like I

21:59

remember seeing Nick Dunlap's interview a couple of weeks ago

22:01

when he won , and I think he said like I couldn't feel

22:03

my feet , I couldn't feel my hands , I couldn't feel my face

22:06

, like how you can't

22:08

prepare for that . You just , you just cannot

22:10

prepare for that and all

22:12

you can do is have routines and have

22:14

strategies you know to to get

22:16

back All you had out there .

22:18

Slema , was you right ? Like I mean , you

22:20

found a way . Like , yeah , you're right , you

22:22

didn't have any of those things , but yet you

22:24

still somehow found a way , and it's . It's

22:27

not because you weren't prepared . You

22:29

didn't know exactly what you were going to have experienced

22:31

, but at the same time , like you had all

22:33

these other experiences to draw off of right

22:35

, and that's what kind of prepared you to get you through

22:37

that .

22:38

Yeah , and I mean back , the way we prepped

22:40

back then and the way we're preparing now is different

22:43

, but it was a way of preparation , right . It was getting

22:45

yourself ready and getting yourself . You

22:48

know we used to do the here's the putt to win the

22:50

US Open , and you know we still do

22:52

things like that . But we can , we can create

22:54

more energy around

22:56

it . But back then that's

22:58

what we did . Right , you play a chip with your , your

23:00

dad or your friends and it's like okay , this

23:02

is for this . Or you know the old school

23:05

, let's play for lunch . Something

23:08

that means something to you is really important . If

23:10

you're , if you put that on the line and it means

23:12

something to you , you're going to experience

23:14

things inside of you that you

23:16

wouldn't if you were just . You know playing for bragging

23:19

rights . So

23:21

you know , whatever that is for each

23:23

player , whatever that , whatever we

23:25

can do to kind of extrapolate that

23:27

and have them

23:29

feel that and again , it's a it's

23:32

a good balance and mix of like frustrating

23:34

the heck out of them , making really hard depending

23:36

on the time of the year , the time of the week relative

23:39

to a tournament , and

23:41

then also , you know , making it easy and achievable

23:43

at times where you know it's . We're getting ready

23:45

right to peak and we want

23:47

them to feel confident , we want them to be successful

23:50

, we want the goals to be achievable

23:52

and all that kind of stuff . So

23:54

you can , you can vary the challenges

23:56

depending on the time of year and , yeah

23:59

, we just hope that when they , when they reach that moment

24:01

, they're able to perform .

24:04

That's . I mean that's awesome , it's not

24:06

surprising . I mean there's so much good

24:08

stuff that you're putting out there . And I hope my

24:10

big goal for this is that

24:12

some parents of some junior players

24:15

kind of hear this and kind

24:17

of hear what we're trying to say , which is there's

24:19

nothing wrong with going out there and

24:21

playing a bunch of golf and failing a whole lot

24:23

and not winning tournaments , because you've

24:26

got to do those things before you can win tournaments

24:28

. There's really , in

24:30

my opinion , no shortcut to it . I've

24:33

been very fortunate and worked with some children

24:35

who won a lot of things at an early age and

24:38

they didn't continue to win . And sometimes

24:41

it works that way and sometimes young people

24:43

that don't win early on win later on

24:45

. But I think the important thing

24:47

that you've talked a lot about

24:49

is like kind of understanding who

24:51

that player is , understanding what their motivators

24:54

are . You know everybody and

24:56

I know you know this , but everybody's completely

24:58

different . Not everybody can go out there and be completely

25:00

stoic and perform very well , right

25:02

? Not everybody has that Tiger gene .

25:05

So I mean high performance . High performers

25:07

are unique .

25:08

That's the way it is my favorite

25:11

thing I always hear . I forget who said

25:13

it . I want to say it was Brett McCabe , but

25:15

I don't think it was Brett . But somebody said

25:17

that every person on the PGA tour

25:20

that plays golf is at least two clicks

25:22

off standard deviation in some way . And

25:25

I believe that because I've worked with just

25:27

enough of them now that they all are very

25:29

eccentric in their own way . But

25:32

I think that you kind of have to become

25:34

very eccentric in a certain way to kind

25:36

of understand yourself enough to perform at the

25:38

level that these men and women do .

25:41

Yeah , I mean I think there's just

25:44

on our national team . I mean you have all

25:46

different personalities , you have all different styles

25:48

of learning , you have all different

25:51

ball striking types . You

25:53

have , you know , the bombers

25:55

, you have the shorter hitters . They're all successful

25:58

. I mean there's no

26:00

, there's no one recipe as to what's going

26:02

to make somebody . You

26:05

know , have that secret sauce and , like you said

26:07

, it doesn't . Really

26:09

there's no set recipe Like

26:12

if you have this ball speed

26:14

and you have this , this , this , you're going to be successful

26:16

. The intangible

26:19

stuff is the stuff it's hard for us to teach . We

26:21

can help to bring it out , but I can't

26:23

, I definitely can't teach self motivation

26:25

. I can't teach their own value

26:27

systems right , Like that stuff is all built

26:29

into who they are already . So

26:33

it's , you know , harnessing those things

26:35

and trying to figure out what

26:37

are , what are the pieces that are going to move them to the

26:39

next level . Everybody

26:41

has their own style , Everybody

26:43

has their own comfort levels . Pushing

26:46

boundaries sometimes can be dangerous , but

26:49

we have to just

26:51

figure that out as we go along .

26:53

That . I mean , I think that's true , right , but

26:56

the figuring it out part you

26:58

said a great quote earlier , right , success leaves clues

27:00

. You know it's . It's not

27:02

on this linear line and it's

27:04

not on this upward graph either . It's

27:07

somewhere in between that . And I think

27:09

that if you , if you periodize

27:11

with your players and you actually put

27:13

things on a calendar and then you

27:15

actually start tracking things , like you can actually

27:18

begin to understand kind

27:20

of where that player is , because you know

27:22

, as you know , you know one week's a

27:24

great tournament , we hope the next week's a great tournament

27:26

, but sometimes it's a bad tournament . And like

27:29

, how do we differentiate those two things ? Like

27:31

how do we actually take away learning from

27:33

the bad performance ? Do we just like try

27:35

to protect , you know , their confidence at

27:37

all costs and say , hey , let's not pay attention

27:39

to that , or do we kind of try

27:41

to get out a little bit ahead of that and kind of dig into

27:44

the data and try to differentiate ?

27:46

Yeah , you know , one of the biggest skills that's

27:48

also lost these days is that

27:50

skill of reflection , journaling

27:53

, reflection , stats . It's

27:57

so key like stats

27:59

are one thing , but the journal and the reflection

28:01

on their part , the debriefing after around

28:03

, you know being able to be a

28:06

little more objective than

28:08

subjective . You know if you walk off 18 and you

28:10

just three putt , you might think you're

28:12

the world's worst putter , when

28:15

actually it's , you know , could be your approach

28:17

play that day that left you with all the 50

28:19

footers that that pushed

28:21

you . So you know taking

28:24

the time and effectively

28:26

debriefing around , effectively

28:29

journaling , spending

28:31

time . You know whether it's a great day

28:33

or a tough day . What were

28:36

your emotions ? How did you handle them ? Would

28:38

you have made some different decisions ? You

28:41

know there's so many different ways

28:43

. You can go kind of down those octopus

28:46

tentacles to answer those questions

28:48

, but really digging

28:50

deep , because a lot of players will debrief

28:52

and just say , yeah , I had a good day . It was , you

28:55

know , I hit the ball . Well , I'm going

28:57

to go work on my putting . It's like , okay , that's great

28:59

You're reflecting , but like dig

29:01

deeper . Like how deep can you dig ? So

29:04

pushing the girls to really like

29:06

, reflect and think about

29:08

what's what's going to actually make them better

29:11

. And , like you said , like taking the good

29:13

rounds and really really like

29:15

analyzing the heck out of

29:17

those ones and the rough ones

29:19

. Yeah , you have to set some of it aside , but

29:22

there's always learnings . Like , if you can't

29:24

take something away from every experience , it's

29:26

kind of lost in the matter , right ? So

29:28

, and I'm a big believer

29:31

that like process , process , process

29:33

, like what we do every day in and out

29:35

, that's where you get your

29:37

confidence . You know shooting

29:39

saying , oh , if I shoot like under par

29:41

, I'm going to be confident again . Well , that's

29:43

just not going to happen . Um , you

29:45

got to . You got to actually do something to get

29:47

there .

29:49

So , uh , the process is super main tape , I

29:52

mean . I call them with the kids , because the

29:55

thing that drives me nuts and it happens all

29:57

the time and I know you know this went real well . You

29:59

get a , you get a young person out there , or

30:01

even just a person playing golf in general

30:03

, and they get to where they're having a really

30:06

great round . There's six , seven , eight holes into this thing

30:08

. There may be a couple under par , maybe

30:10

they've never done that before , but like , they

30:12

get to that point and then all of a sudden

30:14

, like the entire narrative flips in their head

30:16

and they end up shooting like 76 , 77

30:18

, right . And it's like when

30:21

you teach people that everything

30:23

they do is a process and

30:25

then you get them to actually practice

30:27

those processes and understand them , then

30:29

you kind of realize in that moment , when you're seven

30:32

, eight holes into it and you're a few under par , hey

30:34

, my processes have led me to this position

30:36

. It's my processes that I'm doing

30:39

right now that are creating all the good results

30:41

. This is great . I just have to keep doing

30:43

my processes and I'm going to be fine . And

30:45

now all of a sudden , like you're positive

30:47

instead of being fearful of oh

30:50

my God , I'm going to lose this at any moment . You know what

30:52

I mean .

30:52

Cause you don't start thinking of outcome

30:54

. Right , that's the problem . They start . Oh God , I'm four

30:56

under , five under now .

30:57

What now Right but

31:00

?

31:00

yeah , I mean that's

31:02

. That's a whole nother side of it , right , learning how

31:04

to separate and not think of outcome

31:07

and again be so , so

31:09

entrenched in what you're doing that

31:11

whatever happens at the end of

31:13

it is just the result . That's

31:16

a whole nother skill set . Yeah , it's hard , it's

31:18

hard , it happens

31:20

to the best of us , I mean , even if you're Tiger

31:23

Woods or whomever , like it doesn't

31:25

matter , Like it's going to , the

31:27

thought's going to creep into your head . Um

31:29

, and then how ? What you do with that , whether

31:32

you put up the shield of armor or you

31:34

welcome it , like you know everybody

31:36

, everybody's going to manage that differently , but you have

31:38

to have a plan for both right .

31:40

Like you have to be willing to go

31:43

either way with it , because some days maybe the one

31:45

option isn't available to put up the

31:47

armor and not think about it . And I strongly disagree

31:49

with the idea that , like people

31:52

you know can't think about their score

31:54

. Well , they told me that for years

31:56

and then every time I would think about my score I would feel

31:58

shame and like that didn't help either . So

32:00

, like you know , it's like you're going to think

32:03

about it probably . What do you do

32:05

about it when you think about the score

32:07

is the score .

32:07

I mean a strategy that I use , and I've

32:09

done this for a long

32:12

time . What I'm not watching my

32:14

players when we're just practicing , I

32:17

just use numbers . So there's

32:19

no . The word par , birdie , bogey never

32:21

comes out of my mouth . I've done this for

32:23

so long that it's just the way it is . So if

32:26

I'm watching a girl play I was just in Florida

32:28

watching one of my players and she makes

32:30

a birdie on

32:32

a par three I just be like great

32:35

to nice , to . Sometimes

32:38

you make excuse me , sometimes you make

32:40

a good six . I mean , sometimes

32:43

I made a bunch of them .

32:44

Yeah .

32:45

I mean , they're just numbers . As

32:47

soon as you attach a word to them , there's

32:49

negative connotations , there's negative

32:52

emotions , there's judgment

32:54

. A number is a number . You

32:56

add numbers up , they're just numbers

32:59

. So that's something that I've

33:01

always done . I don't even know that my players

33:03

maybe realize it or notice

33:05

it , but it's just the way I've always been and

33:08

I think it's important

33:11

. I think that's one step in , like detaching

33:13

from . The result is

33:15

it's a number and , like I said , you

33:17

might hit an OB on a T and make a five

33:20

on a par four . It's a great

33:22

five . It's a great five

33:24

. You don't have to worry about the OB , you

33:26

just made a great five , move

33:28

on . So

33:31

there's a lot of different ways to think about it and

33:34

I don't know . It's just strategies , right , mike

33:36

? At the end of the day it's having strategies

33:39

, trying them , practicing them

33:41

, see what works , what's the stick ? Yeah

33:45

, what helps you to kind of quiet the noise in

33:47

your head in those moments

33:49

that you can perform . But

33:51

you got to have strategies .

33:54

Yeah , and I mean I think that the thing that

33:56

kind of frustrates me is I think so many

33:58

golfers can

34:01

hit one out of a thousand right , like they can

34:03

hit a shot that kind of looks

34:05

good and kind of feels good and all

34:08

that stuff . And they assume with

34:10

the types of players that you deal with

34:12

that it comes so easily to them and that's why

34:14

they shoot these crazy scores , but

34:17

it's like it's really really

34:19

difficult and they make it look really

34:21

really easy . And the reason that

34:23

it appears to be easy is because they practice

34:26

these skills and these systems

34:28

so much that , to your point

34:30

, it just kind of becomes processes that they learn

34:32

how to do . So I think that that's

34:34

really the thing that people

34:36

lose sight of sometimes is the fact that

34:39

you know to make it look easy . There's a

34:41

lot of work that goes into it . Golf

34:43

is not an easy game .

34:44

You're going to lose in golf more than you're ever going

34:46

to win , and you have to know , behind every

34:49

person that wins that week , there are

34:51

a lot of learnings that

34:53

happened before that . There's a lot of failures

34:56

, however you want to call it , there's

34:58

a lot of detractors

35:00

, there's a lot of backward steps , there's

35:02

a lot of upward steps . I

35:05

mean , we know how this is Like behind

35:08

every win , there's a wealth

35:10

of experience and , as

35:12

I'm saying , like their ability to

35:14

reflect and learn from all

35:17

these . That's the quicker you're going to get these

35:19

successful results . If you're not

35:21

journaling and you're not learning or reflecting

35:24

and you're just going week to week , it's

35:26

going to be a longer span , most likely

35:28

. If we were to , you know , test case

35:30

a bunch of people to

35:32

where they have success , versus those that are actually taking

35:34

the time to dive in and see

35:36

what's going on and actually

35:39

work in a way that's productive

35:41

and efficient . So

35:44

I think that's like to me , that's kind

35:46

of the secret . Part of all this success

35:48

is taking the time to look

35:50

at it and to understand what's going on

35:52

, to then , you know , strategize

35:55

what you do , moving forward . But

35:57

it's kind of a lost . It's a lost art , because

36:00

we have all this tech and we have all this other fun

36:02

stuff that they'd rather be doing .

36:05

I always tell them like the notes thing , like

36:08

my players take a lot of notes after lessons , which

36:10

I think is good , but I always tell them I'm like

36:12

you know that's really worthless

36:14

if you never read it again . You know

36:16

what I mean . Like , if you're a point , like we need to be

36:18

reflective , we need to be looking back .

36:20

Yeah , and it's no good for me to write

36:22

them for my player either .

36:23

You know , I never write my notes .

36:25

I'm like no , I want you to write the notes and then .

36:27

I'll go in , I'll go word preferably , and play it back

36:29

to me .

36:30

Because what you feel what you feel when I give

36:32

you something is not what I'm feeling . I don't feel anything

36:34

when you're hitting the ball . So you

36:36

got to write down for you what it means

36:39

and what it feels like and what's going through your head

36:41

in competition . What's I'm not in

36:43

your head to know . I can see , you

36:45

know you look like you're walking faster and you look

36:47

like you're you know quicker

36:49

in your routine , but I don't know what's happening inside

36:51

. So that's on you to

36:54

like . Sit down and think about .

36:56

Yeah , no , I couldn't agree more . I mean , it's

36:59

definitely something that I feel

37:01

like . You know it's weird because

37:03

I've worked with people and

37:05

I have them on a program and

37:08

you know I'm seeing them regularly and

37:10

I'm doing the practice , planning form and things like

37:12

that , and it's funny

37:15

because I feel like so much of the time that

37:17

I devote to them is in the

37:19

planning stage of things because they just

37:21

golfers don't think that way . Right , like

37:23

a lot of people treat golf

37:26

the same way they treat Monopoly , right , like you get it out

37:28

every now and then you go out there and you throw some

37:30

dice and things happen and what do you know

37:32

? There's winners and losers , but there is

37:34

a strategy that you could apply to Monopoly and you

37:36

could learn how to play the game . You know more

37:38

to your advantage and you could like

37:41

, if you wanted to devote your time , you could . And

37:43

that's the same thing with golf . And I just think that

37:45

so many people , unfortunately

37:47

, instead of , to your point , digging

37:49

in and figuring out what they need to do , moving

37:52

forward , they tend to rely on

37:54

data points and numbers which

37:56

don't actually equate to playing better

37:58

golf . Correct , correct

38:01

, call me crazy .

38:02

It's well . It's the difference between you know teaching

38:04

on a driving range and like coaching

38:06

Right .

38:08

So , I just think we need more of a blend , right ? I

38:10

think obviously it almost sounds like

38:12

I've been negative tech this whole time , but I'm

38:15

very pro tech , just like I'm very pro coaching

38:17

and I'm very pro being on the golf course .

38:19

There's a lot of validation , there's a lot of benefit

38:21

to the tech , look like

38:23

we talked about . If you have somebody who's

38:25

kinematic sequence is totally off and

38:29

you just keep sending them out to play , I

38:32

mean , you're not really , you're not going to . Yeah , it's not going

38:34

to help . There's certain things that you need the tech

38:36

and you need the time to solidify

38:39

. But as

38:41

you , you know we're talking as you're kind

38:43

of cranking up these levels of

38:45

performance . The

38:48

focus has to change and the focus will change

38:50

.

38:51

I just think that the focus needs to be on the low

38:53

hanging fruit , right , and it's

38:55

always easier to clip that before the

38:57

crazy complex and technical and

38:59

like I just look at so many young people going

39:01

into college golf and it's like

39:04

, okay , you know golf wise

39:06

, they have the skill . But then you look at the

39:08

other pieces , right , and you start wondering like

39:10

where some of those skills are . And

39:12

it's not hard , skills like learning

39:15

how to breathe a little better , to regulate

39:17

, to do some of these things , like

39:19

it's just a practice of a skill

39:22

. It's not hard to learn , it's just word

39:24

me , I'll take the blame . Us

39:26

coaches , you know , unfortunately sometimes are just a little bit of a problem and unfortunately

39:28

sometimes they're just a little too lost in launch monitors

39:30

and things like that to kind of notice the human

39:32

standing in front of us .

39:34

Yeah , I know , Mindfulness training is an

39:36

integral part of what we do with the girls . You

39:41

know whether they're doing it or not ? is on them

39:43

. But it's such an important part

39:45

because they're all super talented . Let's

39:47

be honest , like none of them need overhauls

39:50

, none of them need , you know , major swing

39:52

fixes . They can all play at the end of the day , you

39:55

know where are they in their head , where are they in their

39:57

confidence , where are they in their belief of themselves

39:59

and

40:02

all that , and where are they in

40:04

the in their approach to managing

40:06

all the things that are going to thrown at them that

40:08

day , the surprises , right . Like

40:11

there's always something that's going to show up all of a sudden . You

40:13

go and you're hitting like a hook and you're a fader

40:15

. Like you got to manage that , you got

40:17

to be able to manage that , and that's

40:20

all stuff that you're trained

40:22

through . Situational , like

40:24

you said , playing and playing in tournaments

40:26

nothing can replace that . There's

40:29

no pill to say here's 20 rounds of

40:31

tournament golf and

40:33

now , boom , you have that like wisdom inside

40:35

of you . You got to just do it right . Practice

40:37

is the art of doing , and

40:39

so the art of going out and playing

40:41

, the art of competing this is

40:43

all different forms of practice . Like

40:46

you mentioned , I think it's less sexy

40:48

to practice your mindfulness . They'll

40:51

go out and practice bunker shots from wet sand

40:53

, soft sand , uphill lies , downhill

40:55

lies , but who's actually going and sitting and meditating

40:57

for 30 minutes ?

40:59

and training . I mean their

41:01

mind .

41:01

Their mind is what's hitting the golf shots . That's the

41:03

part we have to get them to understand , like

41:06

my hand is not doing what it's doing because my

41:09

hand wants to do that . It's doing

41:11

it because my mind is , my brain is telling

41:13

it what to do . So I think

41:15

really hammering that

41:17

and trying to get them to understand like the actual

41:20

effect

41:22

of what your brain is doing on

41:24

a daily basis is talking about young

41:26

people , man . I mean , they're

41:30

so distracted , mike , like they got like

41:32

iPads and phones and TVs

41:35

and smart this and smart that , and they're

41:37

so distracted . They're so distracted

41:39

and so they'd rather

41:41

be doing . I'm gonna get you to sit

41:44

.

41:44

So bad , like I , honestly I'm so

41:46

glad that I grew up without a cell

41:48

phone , like I really am . Yeah , because

41:50

like they're just hyper conditioned to see

41:52

everything at full scroll speed and

41:55

that's just like how the world existed , them

41:57

right , and that full on scroll mode

41:59

and it's like , man , if we could just

42:01

slow this down a little bit , like

42:04

how much better would you do , how much better would your

42:06

decision making become , just by getting

42:08

you to like look at a post every now

42:10

and then instead of just full scroll . Like just

42:13

slow it down a hair .

42:14

Yeah , yeah , our minds

42:16

are so busy and so distracted that we

42:18

like this . Dr

42:20

Izzy Justice said that we're all . We would

42:23

all be diagnosed as like schizophrenics

42:25

back in the 1950s .

42:26

Yeah , that's great , because of all the activity in our brains

42:29

on a regular basis and we keep training

42:31

it right , like we just addicted to

42:33

the phones and we just keep doing it Our mind is constantly

42:36

wandering .

42:37

So , yeah , getting them to focus for 10 seconds

42:40

. That's all you need is 10 seconds of focus

42:42

, clear mind , execute

42:44

your shot , then you can go do whatever you're doing

42:46

.

42:47

I mean , honestly think about whatever you

42:49

want , if you made me really sit down

42:51

and think about , like , some of the positive effects

42:53

of golf on young people , I would

42:55

say it's the fact that it is like the one thing

42:57

maybe where they're . Actually . You pretty

43:00

much have to be outside if you're playing

43:02

at least competitive golf , right , so

43:04

like they're outside and they don't have

43:06

a screen in front of them and they have to interact with

43:08

their environment and socially . Yeah

43:11

people like I think that does so

43:13

much for a young mind that they

43:15

don't normally get , because normally when they communicate

43:18

in a group it's like through their phone .

43:20

Yeah so I think it's

43:22

rather playing video games with you know

43:25

, 10 people on the other side of the world . Yeah

43:27

, I mean , it's great that we're so

43:30

connected .

43:30

I sound like such a good off my lawn guy and

43:32

like such a such a homer but

43:34

at the same time , like you know , I

43:36

feel like as as

43:39

good as the technology gets and as good as we get

43:41

at making our lives easier . You know , a lot of

43:43

our joy and a lot of our happiness and

43:45

a lot of our self-belief comes from moments

43:47

when none of that stuff was present

43:49

and we were just out doing things and being creative

43:51

. And that's what I always try to challenge my

43:53

kids with is like never get painted

43:55

into a corner on the golf course . You

43:57

know , always leave yourself out , stay creative

44:00

. You know , yeah , it's

44:02

stupid to try to punch it through that hole

44:04

in the trees , but know that hole

44:06

in the trees is there in case you don't like this shot

44:09

and you all of a sudden decide you like that one . But just

44:11

stay open to what can be done

44:13

instead of being forced into a position .

44:15

Yeah , and the more , the more your mind is

44:17

quiet , the more options you'll see

44:20

. That's scientific , like if

44:22

you're in a bad space and you've hit a bunch

44:25

of bad shots . You're going to see one option , but

44:27

if you're clear minded , you'll see all

44:29

sorts options .

44:31

Well , you've seen this and I'm so glad you

44:33

said that because I really want to bring this up to you how

44:36

many times have you been standing next

44:38

to a parent of a player and

44:40

they hit it in the water left of the

44:42

hole and the parents like , oh my

44:45

god , how did they not see

44:47

that ? Right , they like kind of freak

44:49

out that like the player hit in the water when obviously

44:51

like the one place you can't hit it's in the water , and

44:53

like they make that comment to me and I'm like they literally

44:56

couldn't see the water

44:58

and the parents are like what are you talking

45:00

about ? It's right there . And I'm like , well

45:02

, when we over stimulate , our peripheral

45:05

vision shrinks and literally

45:07

that child is so overstimulated

45:09

that they're looking through a hole that's just big enough

45:11

to see that flag and they literally don't

45:14

see the water . And you're exactly right , like kind

45:16

of what we've been talking about throughout this is , I

45:19

think , is is trying to be aware

45:22

of the decisions that we have to make on the golf course

45:24

and unfortunately , I think a lot of our

45:26

players are out there and they can only see a

45:28

flag at a time and that's why the decision-making

45:30

is so poor .

45:32

Yeah , I mean we can . We can sit and break this

45:34

down for for days really . But yeah

45:37

, you have players like that . Go for a par five

45:39

, let's say , and then you know

45:41

they're not actually looking at , oh , where's the

45:43

place I can leave it , where 70% of

45:45

the time I'll be able to get it up and down

45:47

right . And then next you know you hit it , they

45:50

hit it , they go for it too , which is what you wanted them to do

45:52

. And then they short side themselves in

45:54

a place where , like , are you

45:56

going to make five now ? And

45:58

did you ? Did they actually

46:00

think about it ? Is the question right ? Like , yeah

46:03

, we're going to have mishits and you're going to have this , that

46:05

the other , like that's golf , right , but

46:07

did you actually ? What was your intent

46:09

? Um , you know , that's the stuff I

46:11

get at the end of the round , kind of . If

46:13

I'm there watching . You get to ask , like , what

46:16

were you actually trying to do ? That's the first question

46:18

. It's not a . Why would you leave your ball

46:20

there ? You know , like , what was your intention ? Look

46:22

like , I said you're gonna , you're

46:24

not gonna hit everything perfect , but

46:26

you got to set yourself up for the percentages

46:29

and , um , understanding

46:31

that and setting them up and helping

46:33

them to understand . That is , you know

46:36

, that's my job , your job , um

46:38

all the other coaches is

46:40

to help them . You know , like you said , they have

46:42

very they're they're flag hunting . They

46:44

just see the flag . That's what they want . It's our

46:46

job to you know , whether it's the decade

46:49

system or dispersions or however

46:51

you want to address it , but helping

46:53

them to understand , on certain flags , certain wins

46:56

, certain conditions . You

46:58

know they got to look elsewhere . You have to look elsewhere

47:01

and make your focus something different

47:03

than the pin , um , to

47:05

have your high , highest success rates and

47:07

, um , that that just

47:09

comes from getting to know your player , learning , um

47:12

, spending time , uh

47:14

, and investing right . So , um

47:16

, I have the , I have the privilege

47:19

of being able to do that , getting to spend so much time

47:21

and and watching these girls . But at the end of

47:23

the day , it's still a challenge , right , they have their

47:25

personal coaches , they have their college coaches , they

47:27

have their parents , um , but

47:30

it's still . It's still fun

47:32

. It's still fun to to be part of this process

47:34

and be part of these girls's journeys

47:36

, um , and help them get

47:39

to that next level . Uh , it's definitely

47:41

a privilege . So awesome .

47:43

I mean , I can tell you

47:45

know how much honor you feel

47:47

in the role that you're in , um

47:49

, and I think that that's great and I definitely

47:51

think that the girls are super helpful

47:53

for you . But I also think that the girls are

47:55

super fortunate to have such great leadership

47:57

in you , and I'm really happy

48:00

that Team Canada has put

48:02

you in the role you're in , because I think you're great at it . So

48:04

, um , my hat's off to you

48:07

and what you're doing , and I really

48:09

appreciate you taking the time because I know that you

48:11

are under the weather , but , uh , once

48:13

again , it's been a real privilege to

48:15

have you on . Uh , I really hope

48:17

that a lot of people have listened

48:20

to this and take away that

48:22

you know , even at the highest of levels

48:24

, you know as as

48:26

X's and O's as you may think it would be

48:28

, it really is about the overall human

48:30

quality and development of that person . Over

48:32

time , they kind of put them in position

48:35

later on down the road . So I

48:37

would strongly advise parents listening

48:39

to this . If you have a junior golfer who loves the

48:41

game of golf but isn't winning every tournament they play

48:43

in , that child isn't failing . That child

48:45

is learning and there's a very good chance that they'll eventually

48:48

learn enough through loving it that they're able

48:50

to compete at a very high level . So , um

48:52

, I hope that that's the message it gets taken

48:54

away . I really appreciate Salima

48:57

joining us , and if you've enjoyed

48:59

this conversation , please make sure to subscribe

49:01

, and we'll make sure to keep having great

49:04

guests on for you to always

49:06

tune into . So thanks again and

49:08

until next time , keep grinding .