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1:05

Lemonada.

1:10

Sy

1:13

Snowar was on vacation exploring the sites

1:15

in Armenia and Qatar when she started

1:17

getting reminders that strangers were

1:19

listening to her most intimate experiences in

1:22

a podcast. Texts

1:24

lit up her phone at all hours. Sometimes

1:28

it was a short story about a stranger's reaction.

1:31

Other times it was a picture of the rankings

1:33

on Apple Podcasts.

1:34

They started out number four. And

1:37

then it went up. It's number two. When

1:40

it's number one, I went, holy crap. I

1:42

can't believe she said that. Holy cow.

1:49

When Sy Snowar decided to tell the story

1:51

of the ways her life shattered after her son's 1996 murder

1:55

and how a letter from his killer helped her heal,

1:58

she wasn't sure anyone would be interested.

2:00

just like she couldn't have predicted how forgiveness

2:03

would change her life. She also

2:05

had no idea how millions of people

2:07

would be moved by her story. I am blown

2:10

away that so many people heard the podcast.

2:13

I honestly thought they won't hear about

2:15

it, they won't listen, I'm not gonna

2:17

say anything. Cuz I was

2:19

very, it's very hard to put yourself out

2:21

there like that for criticism or anything

2:24

else. Yeah. But

2:26

it's like, I guess I could say it went viral

2:28

kind of. Cuz I was just shocked.

2:31

Well, I'd say number one podcast

2:33

on iTunes, that's pretty viral. That's pretty viral.

2:36

From KSL Podcast,

2:39

I'm Amy Donaldson. And this is

2:41

a bonus episode of The Letter. Those

2:44

at the center of this story shared so

2:47

much personal pain and trauma with the world,

2:49

we wanted to check in with them and see how the podcast

2:52

has impacted their lives. Cai

2:55

Snarr had been hesitant to participate

2:57

in the podcast because she worried about hurting

2:59

the others involved, including

3:03

George Benvenuto, the

3:05

man who killed her

3:07

son. But she also

3:09

struggled to share something so intensely

3:12

personal with millions of strangers. She

3:16

was a very, very, very, very, very, very,

3:17

very, very, very, very, very, very

3:20

personal

3:21

with millions of strangers.

3:23

She was afraid of being misunderstood

3:25

or ignored. Being judged.

3:28

And I honestly thought it's an old story, people

3:31

aren't going to care. It's just old news

3:34

is really what I thought. Over the years

3:36

since Cai's son was murdered

3:38

and his friend, Yvette Rodier, was critically

3:40

injured in a random shooting by a stranger.

3:43

These kinds of crimes

3:44

have sadly become commonplace.

3:46

If it happened today, it wouldn't even get a blurb

3:49

in the newspaper because even mass

3:51

shootings, you don't even hear about all the mass shootings that's

3:53

happening every day in this country. It

3:56

just

3:56

breaks my heart what's happening. Yeah. And

3:59

yet Zach, I mean, everything was front page,

4:01

pictures of his funeral front page. For

4:04

weeks, if it happened now,

4:06

it would be nothing. And yet

4:08

every shooting is affecting someone like

4:11

we were affected. And that pain's out there

4:13

and that grief and just

4:15

the devastation. Every time I hear

4:17

about one, I ache, I hurt for

4:19

the people who are affected

4:21

by these senseless shootings.

4:24

By participating in the podcast, Si's

4:26

private pain became a public experience.

4:29

And even though the crime happened more than two decades

4:32

ago, it affected strangers in

4:34

ways she still struggles to fully understand.

4:37

I was hearing from people literally

4:39

all over the country. And there were these just

4:42

random people who had said, I listen

4:44

to your podcast and just said

4:47

such wonderful things. Just really

4:49

reinforcing it and saying how

4:51

I did help them or they had had a similar

4:54

experience. She heard from victims of crime

4:56

and from people who had their own struggles

4:59

with grief or forgiveness.

5:01

She even heard from a man who had a near death

5:03

experience

5:04

and had written a book about it.

5:06

He sent Si a letter and two copies of his

5:08

book, one for her and one for

5:10

George.

5:11

In the letter, he explained that he wanted George

5:13

to know that God loved him. And that he

5:15

wanted her to know that Zach and Levi

5:17

were in a good place

5:19

and that she would see her sons again.

5:21

When I got that book and what he

5:23

said, I thought,

5:24

maybe I'm really glad I did this. Maybe

5:27

this really is helping people. So many people said,

5:29

this has helped me. But on the other

5:31

hand, there's been some really negative things said

5:33

to. Some of the responses

5:36

made Si laugh. Others felt

5:38

like a punch in the gut. I

5:41

found it quite hilarious. This one said he wanted

5:43

to buy our family a swamp and have us live there.

5:46

I thought, thank you for that.

5:49

But I think the most hurtful

5:51

one to me was some person actually told me that

5:53

we had betrayed our son. That

5:56

one was the one that really hurt because

5:59

I know we didn't. But I'm the one

6:01

that knows Zach. This person does not know Zach.

6:04

Zach is very happy for what has happened.

6:07

And in fact, you've said before, you

6:09

think Zach's had a hand in this. Oh, I do.

6:11

I just think Zach's been working real hard on

6:13

his mom and dad and George,

6:16

all of us, you know, to soften hearts

6:18

and

6:19

to let it go because he knew

6:21

we needed to. And the thing is, and I don't know if

6:23

this was clear on the podcast, but I forgave

6:26

him before I ever got that letter from him because

6:29

I had to because of what it was doing

6:31

to me. I forgave him for myself,

6:34

not for him. I did it for myself.

6:37

Getting to know him and getting that letter was

6:39

a huge bonus.

6:42

There were some moments that none of us saw coming. One

6:45

of those was when George's mother Nelida

6:47

and Cy were at a Salt Lake City restaurant

6:50

and an old friend approached to discuss

6:52

the podcast. And he just said,

6:54

oh, Cy, you know, I'm so

6:56

glad I see, you know, I heard your podcast

6:59

and I just can't tell you how much

7:01

it meant to me and it's helped me. And

7:03

she just went on and on. I said, well, I'm so glad

7:05

to hear that. Let me introduce you to Nelida.

7:08

And she went, oh, Nelida, you're just so

7:10

wonderful. And the thing is, Nelida

7:13

had said, people will hate me. They hate

7:15

me because I'm his mother for what he did.

7:17

And I had told her, I said, people don't hate

7:19

you, Nelida. There's nothing to hate

7:21

about you. You know, she's wonderful.

7:23

And she experienced it there. And I think

7:26

it just, she was so touched by that and it meant so

7:28

much to her. Even though George's family

7:30

did not want to participate in the podcast,

7:33

Cy says they have been supportive. His brother

7:35

told me, he said, people need to hear this,

7:38

need to hear this story, which

7:40

really made me feel good because

7:42

I really seriously hated

7:44

the fact that it might

7:47

hurt them. Another thing none of us could

7:49

have predicted was how this would impact

7:51

the SNARS extended family

7:53

including Cy and Ron's grandchildren.

7:55

I've talked to two of my grandsons about

7:58

it, both of them named Zach, by the way. who

8:00

have listened to the whole thing. And I was

8:02

so touched by what they said. My

8:05

18-year-old Zach, who lives in

8:07

Massachusetts, said, I knew

8:09

it had happened.

8:10

But he said, I never thought about

8:13

really what you guys went through.

8:15

And he said, my dad never talks

8:17

about it.

8:18

And I said, that's because it's too painful for your

8:20

dad to talk about. And he

8:22

says, I'm really kind of glad it's out there, because someday

8:24

my kids will hear it. When I have kids,

8:27

they will know this story.

8:31

And

8:31

he talked specifically about when Drew

8:33

and I went to the prison, these eagles followed us

8:35

and just kept circling right there with us. And he

8:38

says, that was just the coolest thing. And I thought,

8:40

that's so great that he would pick

8:42

up on that.

8:45

My oldest grandson, who's Zachary Taylor,

8:47

he listened to it. And it really impacted

8:49

him. And they both said how happy

8:51

they were that we had found

8:53

this forgiveness and felt this peace

8:56

about it, that we were able to let

8:58

go of the hatred and anger.

9:01

Just like the painful parts would reverberate

9:03

through your family tree, it would be a

9:05

gift you'd give your grandkids without even really thinking

9:07

about it.

9:08

Now they're going to know this

9:11

is a thing that's open to you. This is an option.

9:13

Right.

9:14

We're going

9:17

to take

9:21

a break

9:25

here. When

9:27

we come back, we'll hear from two

9:29

of the Snars grandsons.

9:32

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. If

9:34

Balancing Work-Life Demands was a sport, I'd

9:37

suffer a defeat almost every day. That's

9:39

because it's so easy to get caught

9:41

up in what everyone else needs for me and

9:44

for some reason, it's really difficult

9:46

to think about what I need. The problem

9:48

with being stretched so thin is that it can

9:50

leave us feeling overwhelmed and burned out.

9:53

One thing that's helped me spend a little more time focusing

9:55

on taking care of myself physically and emotionally

9:58

is therapy.

9:59

It's been critically important.

9:59

in helping me find perspective and coping

10:02

skills that have helped me become a much happier,

10:04

healthier version of myself. If

10:06

you are thinking of starting therapy, give

10:08

BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online,

10:11

designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited

10:13

for your schedule.

10:14

Find more balance with BetterHelp. Visit

10:17

betterhelp.com slash the letter today

10:19

to get 10% off your first month. That's

10:21

betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com

10:24

slash the letter. August

10:26

26th, Lil Baby presents. It's only us!

10:29

Made it out the treasure this time. At Nationwide Arena.

10:31

Get ready for an epic summer. Lil

10:34

Baby's I O U Tour has

10:36

finally touched down.

10:38

It's Lil Baby live

10:40

in concert, featuring the King LeBron, Khloé

10:43

Billa, Klausa, Rilo

10:45

Rodrigo, and Honcho. Get

10:48

your tickets or on sale now at

10:51

Ticketmaster.com. Brought to you by Mammoth

10:53

Lot and AG Touring.

11:00

The

11:00

first two grandsons born in the Snarr family were

11:03

named after Zach. Zachary

11:03

Taylor Davis, who is now 22, and

11:06

Zachary Snarr, now 18. Incidentally,

11:09

the same age his uncle was when

11:11

he was murdered. Both of the

11:13

young men said they grew up hearing lots of stories

11:16

about

11:17

how kind, talented, and fun-loving their uncle was. It

11:20

created for both of them a source of inspiration

11:22

and pride. Transitioning

11:25

to the new generation of the Snarr family,

11:27

Zachary Taylor Davis,

11:28

who is now 22, and Ron Snarr, who

11:31

is now 18, both of whom

11:33

are now in their 20s, have been a source of inspiration

11:35

and pride. Trent Snarr, Sy

11:38

and Ron's oldest child, didn't

11:40

participate in the podcast. But Trent's son

11:42

Zachary said listening to it gave

11:45

him new insight into his father. I'm

11:47

sure that it's impacted him in so many ways that

11:50

I even have no idea about still, and we'll never

11:52

really know everything that could have been different

11:55

if it hadn't happened, So it just makes

11:57

me appreciate even more everything

11:59

that. he's done for me and my family

12:02

and just who he is as a person,

12:04

how he can be so strong even when

12:06

he's gone through so many just terrible,

12:09

terrible things in his life that he's had

12:11

to deal with and kind of just keep on

12:13

going. It's really incredible.

12:16

Sian Ron's oldest grandchild Taylor was

12:18

on his LDS mission when his mom Sydney

12:20

was interviewed for the podcast. He wasn't

12:22

sure why his family wanted to share the story

12:24

with the world.

12:25

I was kind of shocked because like

12:27

why are we talking about this again?

12:29

You know, this happened 25 years

12:32

ago. By the time the podcast was

12:34

released,

12:35

Taylor was a student at Snow College in Ephraim

12:37

about 40 minutes from the prison where

12:39

George Benvenuto has lived most of

12:41

his adult life.

12:43

He said he'd listen to the podcast just

12:45

like the rest of us did

12:46

one week at a time.

12:48

Every Tuesday when it came out before

12:50

my class I'd be eating breakfast

12:53

I just put in my airpods and I

12:55

just listened and there were a few times I found

12:57

myself crying for

12:59

a second just listening to my

13:01

mom and my grandma,

13:04

you know, just talk about my uncle Zach

13:06

and I'd hear them cry and make me cry and my

13:08

god jeez. These solitary

13:10

listening sessions led to weekly phone calls with

13:12

his mother

13:13

to discuss something they both thought they'd left in

13:15

the past.

13:17

Every time I listened to a podcast

13:19

I would call my mom immediately

13:21

after, you know, we just talked for a second.

13:23

I'm like mom I didn't know that that happened.

13:26

It's mentioned in the podcast how my mom was the

13:29

one to answer

13:30

the door and I remember just asking

13:33

my mom, mom how did you feel in that

13:35

moment? And I remember just

13:37

talking to my dad I just said dang

13:39

dad this is crazy stuff and

13:42

my dad's like yep you just have to I don't

13:44

know support mom

13:46

through this because it is hard for her to talk

13:48

about. Taylor realized

13:50

if he wanted to understand his family

13:52

it was important to know the story in

13:55

full and to talk about it.

13:56

Like a lot of listeners

13:58

Taylor was surprised his grandparents

13:59

could forgive the man who killed their son.

14:02

If someone were to kill one of my siblings,

14:06

the amount of hate I would feel would

14:08

be huge. It would be a

14:10

lot of hate for that specific person. And

14:13

so when they first told me that

14:15

they want to advocate for his release,

14:19

I was shocked overall. Like,

14:22

really, you want to help him get out of

14:24

prison for what he did. But

14:26

Taylor says talking to his grandparents about their

14:28

shared faith helped him see things

14:30

differently. You know, as soon as they

14:33

were able to forgive George for what he did

14:35

and just let it go, it

14:37

felt

14:38

a weight just get taken off of their

14:40

shoulders. So it definitely,

14:44

it was a big testament to me that

14:46

if something bad happens to me, especially

14:49

at the hand

14:51

of another person, it's so much

14:53

better to forgive than to just

14:55

hold on to that hate

14:57

and let it consume you. Eight-year-old

15:00

Zachary said he's seen how his uncle's

15:02

death has rippled through the generations

15:05

of his family. In fact, Zachary

15:07

says their story has influenced his

15:09

choice of a research topic for his senior

15:11

seminar.

15:12

I don't think my dad knows this or my grandparents,

15:14

but I'm actually writing my paper on prison

15:16

reform and ways to, like, improve

15:19

the conditions within a prison and

15:22

what to do for rehabilitation of inmates,

15:24

because, I

15:25

mean, I've seen firsthand that no

15:28

matter who a person is, there's always

15:30

opportunities for them to change. Even

15:32

if they've done unspeakable things, like

15:34

George did, something so terrible, they're

15:37

still, like, a human that has

15:39

the ability to change and has

15:42

the ability to regret their actions

15:44

and has the ability to kind of rehabilitate

15:46

into a better person.

15:57

Meanwhile, Sy Snar's relationship with George

15:59

been... Venuto continues to grow

16:02

and deepen.

16:03

They're still writing letters, talking on the phone.

16:06

And now that COVID-19 restrictions are lifted,

16:08

Cy is able to go to the prison and see him

16:10

in person. So the second time I saw

16:12

him, he was smiling. And

16:15

he just has the best smile. These

16:17

big dimples and this great smile. And

16:19

I just sit there thinking, he's got the

16:22

best smile. And I thought I had never seen

16:24

him smile. Of course, the first time we

16:26

met, he was so nervous. Yeah, he was terrified.

16:28

But now it's just so relaxed.

16:31

And I told him, I said, I feel like I can

16:33

literally talk to you about anything. And

16:36

he said the same thing. I just talked to him like he's one

16:39

of mine, kind of.

16:41

Now, Cy says she visits George

16:44

monthly. I'm just so comfortable

16:46

with him now. And we just talk about everything. And

16:48

it goes so fast. When they say, I get an

16:50

hour and a half with him, they say, time's up.

16:52

And he says, it's gone already? And this last time

16:54

I said, it's over? It's over already?

16:57

Yeah. Yeah, I love the visits

16:59

with him. And it's great to see him smile. And

17:02

he's just, I think he's happy,

17:05

happy for the relationship, and happy

17:08

for the forgiveness and the redemption for

17:10

himself. What do you hope

17:12

people take now from this, now that

17:14

you know people are listening and that they do find

17:17

connection to your story? I hope

17:19

that people realize it's really

17:23

a gift to

17:25

yourself if you can forgive somebody. To

17:28

take that burden from yourself. I

17:31

hope they realize it's never too late to

17:33

forgive someone. I mean, it took a long

17:35

time, a long

17:38

time for me to forgive him. And it took even

17:40

longer for him to get the courage to send

17:42

that letter.

17:48

If you're wondering how the podcast has impacted

17:50

Yvette Rodier and her family,

17:52

you're not alone.

17:54

Back when the podcast was first released, Yvette

17:56

told me in an email that the renewed attention

17:58

had been difficult to handle. handle. From

18:01

random questions about her experiences

18:03

to just hearing promotional ads.

18:05

It was all a lot harder than she expected.

18:08

Yvette didn't listen to the

18:10

podcast, but her husband did. She

18:12

wished us well and expressed her faith in us, but

18:15

she hasn't wanted to participate further.

18:17

In a recent email, she told me they

18:19

feel it's best to consider the podcast chapter

18:22

closed for them. She said they are

18:24

happy that so many people have found the podcast

18:26

helpful and they're grateful to have been

18:28

a part of the project.

18:31

Her experience is something I think about

18:33

often,

18:34

and I believe it's important for all of us to remember

18:36

when it comes to true crime stories. These

18:39

are the lives of real people. And

18:42

while I think there's a lot of healing that takes place

18:44

when we share our stories, it can

18:46

also be incredibly painful, even

18:48

re-traumatizing for some.

18:50

The emotional generosity of Yvette

18:53

Rodier and her family, the entire

18:55

Snarr family, and George Benvenuto

18:57

and his family, will always feel

18:59

like a gift, not just to me, but

19:02

to anyone who listens to their stories with

19:04

an open heart. As

19:08

a reminder, both the Snarrs and

19:10

attorney

19:10

Mark Moffitt still plan to pursue

19:12

a petition with the Utah Board of Pardons

19:14

and Parole, and we will bring you

19:16

an update on that

19:17

when it happens. The

19:19

letter is researched and reported by me, Amy

19:22

Donaldson. It's written by myself

19:24

and Andreas Martin, who is also responsible

19:27

for production and sound design. Mixing

19:29

by Trent Sell. With KSL

19:31

Podcasts, executive producer

19:34

Cheryl Worsley. For Lemonada Media,

19:36

executive producers Jessica Cordova-Kramer

19:39

and Stephanie Whittles-Wax. And executive

19:41

producers Paul Anderson and Nick Piniella

19:43

with Workhouse Media. If you like

19:46

our show, please give us a rating and a review.

19:48

It helps people find us. Follow

19:51

us at theletterpodcast.com and

19:53

on social at The Letter Podcast.

19:56

The Letter is produced by KSL Podcasts

19:59

and Lemonada Media. media, in association

20:01

with Workhouse Media.

20:16

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

20:18

If balancing work-life demands was a sport,

20:21

I'd suffer defeat almost every day. That's

20:23

because it's so easy to get caught up

20:26

in what everyone else needs from me, and

20:28

For some reason, it's really difficult

20:30

to think about what I need.

20:32

The problem with being stretched so thin

20:34

is that it can leave us feeling overwhelmed and burned

20:36

out.

20:37

One thing that's helped me spend a little more time focusing

20:39

on taking care of myself physically and emotionally

20:42

is therapy. It's been critical

20:44

in helping me find perspective and coping skills

20:47

that have helped me become a much happier, healthier

20:49

version of myself. If you are

20:51

thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp

20:53

a try. It's entirely online, designed

20:56

to be convenient, flexible, and suited for your

20:58

schedule.

20:59

Find more balance with BetterHelp. Visit

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betterhelp.com slash the letter today

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to get 10% off your first month. That's

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betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com

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slash the letter.

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August 26th, Lil Baby presents. It's

21:12

only

21:12

us. Made it out the treasure this time. At Nationwide Arena.

21:15

Get ready for an epic summer. Lil Baby's

21:18

I O U Tour has

21:20

finally touched down.