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0:34

Defense team is now cross examining the

0:36

prosecution's first witness, former tabloid Executive David

0:39

Hacker. This is backwards third day on

0:41

the stand and today for the very

0:43

first time. he described the deal that

0:45

he helped broker with adult film star

0:47

Director Stormy Daniels Of a deal that

0:50

is at the center of this kit

0:52

is the prosecution has used Packer to

0:54

set the scene for the jury, introducing

0:56

them to key players in the case,

0:59

how they all fit together in the

1:01

story. Right now, the defense tactic in

1:03

it's early questioning. His part of

1:05

a strategy. the strategy to argue the

1:07

David Packers work helping Trump during the

1:10

Twenty Sixteen election was nothing new, nothing

1:12

unusual. Also, notably today, judge One Marshawn

1:14

so far still has declined to issue

1:17

a ruling from Tuesday's hearing on whether

1:19

Trump has violated. His. Gag Order

1:21

Despite the prosecution arguing that this

1:24

morning that Trump continues to violate

1:26

this order against disparaging members of

1:28

the jury and the witnesses of

1:31

course this is four times over

1:33

the last three days the prosecution

1:35

says let's discuss with our panel

1:38

and let me start with you,

1:40

David Chalian because the trials going

1:42

on right now Vivid packers shrugging.

1:45

says. He is testifying to the best best

1:47

of his knowledge to be truthful because a

1:49

meal both. Trump's lawyers say one

1:51

I'm getting at is these things happen long time

1:53

ago. Even. When you're doing your best

1:55

hard to remember things is he saying, like, maybe you

1:58

don't remember this all that well, this is yours. Years

2:00

ago, ah, Packers in his seventies,

2:02

etc. Trump has his arms folded

2:04

across his body watching Packer answer

2:06

his attorneys questions specifically he was

2:08

were poking holes in the memories

2:10

of where Trump was in August?

2:12

Twenty Cassini Remember that that consequential

2:14

meetings between Pecker and Cohen in

2:16

Trump's setting up the whole schemes

2:18

and the defense here is clearly

2:20

trying to say you're not fight

2:22

remembering of Trump was in town

2:24

or not in town or just

2:26

trying to bring in this cloud

2:29

of suspicion around. What he presented

2:31

during the prosecution's time record

2:33

said earlier. Of: when presented

2:35

with the fact that Stormy Daniels ah,

2:38

had the story out there, this adult

2:40

film starring director of them alleging that

2:42

you had an encounter with Mister Trump

2:45

a Packer Testify quote I said I

2:47

don't want the National Enquirer to be

2:49

associated with with a porn star. He.

2:52

Added that Walmart was I'm a distributor of

2:54

the magazine and would be very bad for

2:56

am I the the publishing company that produces

2:59

the The National Enquirer. Pecker also said if

3:01

anyone was going to buy it. In.

3:03

Terms of buying the story I thought

3:05

Michael Cohen and Donald Trump. Or

3:08

said by. The significance of as you

3:10

think the idea that a packers saying that he

3:12

was reluctant to get involved in the Stormy Daniels

3:14

case when we know at the end of the

3:16

day. He. Didn't actually get involved. it

3:18

was Michael Cohen who got involved right? So

3:21

I mean it look look like I guess

3:23

the the argument to be made as that

3:25

I'm. That. This was unusual

3:27

might wasn't standard fare for him to be wouldn't

3:29

necessarily bit it with his fit. It consists of

3:32

with his business objectives to be engaged to kill

3:34

sore to kill stories right handed it for trump.

3:36

right? And in fact, telling us particular story

3:39

or fine a story when a made me

3:41

much business sense for himself for trying to

3:43

sort of build this ah of. Narrative.

3:46

Around and a sort of working susie pro Trump

3:48

and exclusively for the purposes of the election, right?

3:50

One of the things he testified about I believe

3:52

on direct earlier today was he said that you

3:54

know in a meeting with Trump was no reference

3:56

to Trump's family. right? No references Trump's

3:58

family that meeting with. The What You're Doing This

4:01

death. He wasn't wanting to suppress the Stormy Daniel

4:03

story where the current with story. Be.

4:05

On behalf of his wife, protecting his wife or

4:07

it's kids. it was in in just about his

4:09

campaign that that is what the Da's office again

4:11

be saying. Ano Trump has suggested or as lawyers

4:13

have suggested that it may have been had something

4:15

new this family but this is now a trial

4:17

or evidence has to be a deuce and I

4:19

don't know who is going to put that into

4:21

evidence unless it's Donald Trump himself and he's not

4:23

credible. So the prosecutor right now ah this is

4:25

as Assistant District Attorney. Our stained glass. Is

4:27

objecting to Trump's attorney and mister both.

4:30

Characterizing David Packers meetings with the Da's

4:32

office as a walk as Packers. Suggested.

4:35

Something like that. The judge ah, sustained

4:37

of the objects and or will what's

4:39

what's the point. Of that objects

4:41

in these the idea that they cooked the

4:43

story up with the prosecutors. yeah look this

4:45

is kind of textbook defense lawyer one on

4:48

one. One of the things to defense is

4:50

going to try to show is that Packer

4:52

and probably the other witnesses really did sit

4:54

down the prosecutors and laid out the narrative

4:56

and on what to say. it's us concocted

4:58

story but the idea is that they're basically

5:00

spelling out the story that the prosecutors one

5:02

of the told stealth I think we've seen

5:05

so far here just today in the early

5:07

stages of the cross examination is that the

5:09

Trump defense team is going to follow a

5:11

strategy. Of really trying to read frame the

5:13

whole significance of Packers testimony, the prosecutors want

5:15

to educate the jury on the cats until

5:17

process and six, This is how Trump and

5:19

people he worked with typically would try to

5:22

suppress these kinds of source. What the defense

5:24

is going to be trying to show today

5:26

through the cross examination is at this was

5:28

done all the time they didn't for all

5:30

sorts of other celebrities, all sorts of other

5:32

politicians. so don't drawing conclusions that this was

5:35

a special deal to protect Donald Trump. The

5:37

David Baker to said he remembers meeting with

5:39

prosecutors five to six times during the summer.

5:41

Of two thousand. Eighteen.

5:43

At themselves or it in your experiences at work

5:45

as the out of the idea of try this.

5:48

Depicts. A witness that has

5:50

damaging testimony is having kind of been coast

5:52

or or nudged in a certain way by

5:54

prosecutors. Does that work with was a contract

5:57

so that he was incentivize, right? Did he

5:59

did? He's. These now a witness he

6:01

was not a subject that the investigation work

6:03

or involved in it and had immunity it

6:05

all the of things that come along with

6:08

that. And. I think they're also trying

6:10

to show looked at. this is the keep

6:12

using the word standard operating procedure in order

6:14

for them and one thing in the questioning

6:16

and I think that's the key to this.

6:18

The same looks they've done this whole time.

6:20

They're protecting the dirty secrets of that business.

6:22

same thing leveraged of other celebrities right? That's

6:24

the key that they've leverage other celebrities that

6:26

they do this all the time. The and

6:28

they keep using word stated operating procedure and

6:30

attacking it from that angle. Did this is

6:32

a dirty business. That's what they're going to

6:34

try and show that this is a dirty

6:36

business and that when they get caught. In it.

6:39

They. Went to the prosecutors and just follow

6:41

the prosecutors narrow so the jury right now

6:43

we're told and side doesn't have been allow

6:45

cameras in the courtroom so we're trying to

6:48

bring your window are through narrative from our

6:50

reporters in the room. The jurors are closely

6:52

watching. prompts, attorney Mr. Both and the witness

6:54

Mr. Packer sums are seated closer to the

6:57

gallery or occasionally looking out into the gallery.

6:59

Ah, as a reporter. same again girl. Says

7:01

to follow up on. my team said

7:04

the reality is David Pecker is getting

7:06

immunity and you know that's going to

7:08

come out as an incentive. I would

7:10

say just going back to direct Today

7:13

I was looking through. All. Of

7:15

our slack channel for everything that

7:17

was sad. that's that's what we're

7:19

putting on Tv. The number of

7:21

times David Pecker was ass and

7:24

answers that this had to do

7:26

with the campaign. If you just

7:28

go through the trans. Quite a bit,

7:30

right? Over and over and

7:32

over again I see says.

7:35

If he didn't wanna do it

7:37

because it with embarrass Mister Trump

7:39

or embarrassed or hurt the campaign

7:41

the campaign the campaign's. The campaign

7:43

which is different I guess than saying yes.

7:46

We did this with. I'm

7:48

just going to name a dead actor so

7:50

I don't get in trouble. Pyro Power Dry

7:52

we had. We had all of that Tyrone

7:54

Powers dirt. Just. To help him because we

7:56

had a good relationship with him. This is

7:59

different as it's helping. Get somebody elected,

8:01

Theoretical and. Clearly the prosecution is

8:03

underscoring this over and over.

8:05

They wanna make the case

8:07

to other things. One is

8:09

that dated pecker and they

8:11

did this yesterday. They're doing

8:13

it today. They're making the

8:15

connection that David Pepper and

8:17

Donald Trump were friends David

8:19

Pekearo one point said. Defense attorneys

8:21

or maybe ah yes no no no no

8:23

the bras agree with you are going to

8:26

browse. Is because they want to say he the

8:28

Packers. Wouldn't. Be doing this

8:30

to tear her towel trump. He

8:32

he liked it and he said

8:34

at one point I felt the

8:36

Donald Trump was my mentor. He

8:38

helped me throughout my career. I

8:40

still consider I'm close. Even though

8:42

we haven't spoken, I still. Consider.

8:44

Him a friend. So Trump's attorney or

8:47

the defence attorney or Emile Bove is

8:49

asking series of questions right now. David

8:51

Packer that witness about how prosecutors. In

8:54

fact, prepared Packer to give quote

8:56

consistence. Testimony or every time

8:58

he testified David Chalian Some

9:01

very interesting testimony. Not long

9:03

ago this afternoon were David

9:05

Packer recalled a phone conversation.

9:07

He. Had with Trump's White House team.

9:10

At the time. According to Mr.

9:12

Packer, A Hope Hicks and

9:15

Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Sarah was

9:17

Communications Director or the Press Secretary

9:19

and and hope it's was a

9:21

special assistant to the President's He

9:24

talks Packer says with Hicks and

9:26

Sanders about whether Karen make do

9:28

bulls contract. Should. Be extended so

9:30

just to remind people carrying Mcdougall is the Ninety

9:32

Ninety, a playmate of year who alleges she had

9:35

a long term affair and part of the catch

9:37

and kill was to give her hundred fifty thousand

9:39

dollars. A woodpecker did. To. Have

9:41

are not tell her story publicly. It was

9:43

not a script Packer said going on to

9:45

confirm. he wasn't surprised. Many questions from the

9:47

prosecutor. That's what the separate issue about whether

9:50

or not the defense or the rather the

9:52

prosecution has coached him. In any case, karma

9:54

Google had this contract. She was good. Got

9:56

one hundred fifty thousand dollars. They bought the

9:58

rights to her story. Including

10:00

her alleged. Affair. With

10:02

down trump. Ah, and then

10:04

David Pecker calls the White House and so

10:06

should we should we extend her contracts. Pecker

10:09

said both of them hope aches and Sarah

10:11

Sanders. Said. That they thought it was a

10:13

good idea. Know. Those.

10:15

Are taxpayer funded employees?

10:18

Have a hours of the White House

10:20

at the time giving a recommendation the

10:23

chemicals contract to be extended. That's. That's.

10:25

Pretty interesting. I don't think either of

10:27

them were thinking also about Trump's family

10:29

or embarrassment it's efforts of is it

10:31

inside the White House about what not

10:33

wanting more stories are to help out

10:36

here you know. This. Hearing.

10:39

Packers telling of how Donald

10:41

Trump. Checked. In On Terror.

10:43

And Mcdougall with hims I thought was really interesting

10:45

to damage. Starting with the initial before the deal

10:47

was done before he signed a Am, I signed

10:50

the deal with Mcdougall, but when it was in

10:52

the works apparently there was a phone call between

10:54

Pecker and Trump's Packers out New Jersey. Get me,

10:56

let me interrupt you. I'm going to bring up

10:58

cause I got a graphic and them and everybody.

11:01

Okay so this has to do with A When

11:03

I got on the phone this is David Back

11:05

are talking. When. I got on the phone.

11:07

Mister Trump said to me. I. Spiked I spoke

11:09

to Michael Cohen. Karen is a nice girl

11:11

by the way just to interrupt your David

11:13

Zucker confirming. Them. In two thousand and

11:15

fifteen and two thousand six thing, Michael Cohen was

11:17

always clear that he was Trump Personal attorney. He

11:19

was not working for the campaign. Will. See

11:22

how significant that is? anyway? So.

11:24

Parker as. Trump gets on

11:26

the phone with them says I spoke to Michael Currents

11:28

a nice girl. Pecker testifies. I believe that when Mister

11:30

Trump said that she was a nice girl, I believe

11:32

that he knew who she was. The. Prosecutor

11:34

as Packer why he told prompt they should

11:36

by the story. To. Suppress It Hacker

11:38

says. I believe the story was true. Becca.

11:41

Recalls Cohen told them about paying for the story,

11:43

saying the boss will take care of it. Pecker

11:46

clarifies the boss. Was. Donald Trump was

11:48

just down core Trump's attorney aspect. To

11:50

confirm is far Testimony The Cohen was

11:52

always angling for something. For. Himself. And

11:54

in any case, that's what you're talking about. the com xactly

11:56

around or say that comes I didn't know you have the

11:58

graphic. I'm glad. You didn't have that conversation the up

12:00

of Donald. Trump saying she's a nice

12:03

girl now. Fast forward. And

12:05

now you're in love, Saint you! Dinner!

12:07

At the White House and we. Learn again that

12:09

Donald Trump is. Checking in on how

12:11

Terrence doing. So when you see Donald

12:14

Trump publicly and say things like i

12:16

don't even know who this person. Is

12:18

up the heat of this? Clear up? This.

12:20

Clearly phrase somebody that he actually had

12:23

on his mind that I thought pecker

12:25

revealing that of was quite informative. To

12:27

and Crisis have one thing. I

12:29

can hear Donald Trump saying these

12:31

words because I've actually heard him

12:33

say these words about somebody else.

12:35

This is the way he speaks.

12:37

I was interviewing him at the

12:39

time he was married to Marla

12:41

Maples and we were waiting for

12:43

her to com and he said

12:45

she's a nice girl. She shows

12:47

up on. Time about marla. maples?

12:49

Yes please! Just. The way he speaks

12:52

when when I heard those words that you

12:54

just jumped out. At me interesting arm

12:56

we are with the it is

12:58

not of. On. Heard of. Of

13:01

for courts to throw out a conviction. In

13:03

fact, we just happen though in New York

13:05

today with Harvey Weinstein. I'm not comparing these

13:07

cases, but it just happened to days where

13:09

they are and a higher court ruled that.

13:13

Evidence should not have been introduced in

13:15

a case against Harvey. Wants to know

13:17

he's he's still in prison for stuff

13:19

he did, los Angeles, etc. They might

13:21

retry the case, but I wonder jam

13:23

if you think introducing this karma Google

13:25

and of Information and the other catch

13:27

and kill story information could later be

13:29

used to. Call into

13:31

question this this case the it's that balancing test

13:34

between what is prob it is and what is

13:36

prejudicial right and those are things that the appellate

13:38

courts are going to look at. I think they're

13:40

going to be a lot of a pellet issues

13:42

in this case including to kind of underlying primes

13:44

that make it a felony. I think this case

13:46

is gonna have a there's a lot of fodder

13:49

for up of for appeals on this case is

13:51

gonna go for some time after afterwards if there's

13:53

a conviction. So. Trump's Attorney just as

13:55

Packer whether he told agents isomers F

13:57

B I, Agents of July Twenty eighteen.

14:00

Interview that Hope Hicks had been at that.

14:02

M I'm Important meeting in August.

14:04

Two thousand and fifteen at Trump

14:07

Tower were supposedly the scheme ah

14:09

has been hashed. Ah, The prosecutor

14:11

objects to Trump's attorney asking that

14:14

question. Marshawn Sixteen sustains the objection:

14:16

why would. Marshawn, Why

14:18

would the prosecutor object? And

14:20

why would Marshawn sustain the objection? Yeah.

14:23

I'm quite sure I'm in a good one of you have an

14:25

idea. Wealth. And he might. My

14:27

guess is that what they're trying to do

14:29

that the defense team is trying to suggest

14:31

that the the political and personal we're kind

14:33

of kept segregated. The prosecutors are trying to

14:36

show that kind of and from world. Everything

14:38

was all blended together and self. I think

14:40

that that's what that line of questioning was

14:42

aimed to get at, but I think what

14:44

the judge said he was actually very interesting

14:46

and that you know to the point about

14:48

not creating a pellet. Issues: The judges pay

14:50

attention listening to the questioning and making these

14:52

on the spot. Judgment calls about questions that

14:55

are permissible and questions that are impermissible. Precisely.

14:57

To ensure that you don't have that. Kind of harvey

14:59

one scene problem where the judge allows the

15:01

prosecutors or the defense to start opening doors

15:03

that son of be opened before the jury

15:05

am in the written a thing as customizers

15:07

anytime. New you have a defense

15:10

lawyer asking a cooperating witness. Did.

15:12

You tell the agents x, y or z. Usually.

15:15

Suggests that there may have been some omission

15:17

during the debriefing process and that maybe that

15:19

fact and come out during some exactly right

15:21

Trump's attorney from France attorney trying to get

15:23

back or to confirmed that he did not

15:25

mention Hicks when he first told the story

15:27

from were told it is sitting there with

15:29

his arms crossed, the end of his other

15:31

defense attorney toddler insulating over or whispering to

15:33

each other. Stand by one and all much

15:35

more to discuss The breaking new Trump's defense

15:38

team is cross examining former tabloid magnate David

15:40

Packer. He said the updates coming in on

15:42

the side of your screen will see how

15:44

much ground is covered. In these final minutes of the

15:46

trial today, we're going to take a quick break. Will be

15:48

right back. This

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Doctor Sanjay Gupta, Cnn's teeth medical Correspondent

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this week. Unceasing Life. I'm sorry that

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the Great Barrier Reef is no longer

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That's my friend, Bill. We're Scene and

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planet, and he's optimistic about our ability

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to take care of it. listened,

17:20

To tasting wine revenue to

17:22

podcasts. However

17:25

with are breaking news a three of

17:27

testimony continues in the Donald Trump has

17:29

want to up for former tabloid executive.

17:31

David. Pecker is on the stand.

17:34

He's been cross examined by Trump's defense

17:36

team or let's every backer panel discuss

17:38

was happening quite right this minute because

17:40

a Packer is confirming as the a

17:42

defense attorney has been pressing him to

17:45

do that and you amy all about

17:47

that. He did not mention Hope Hicks

17:49

being at that August two thousand and

17:51

fifteen from Tower meeting in his initial

17:53

two thousand and eighteen government interview Just

17:56

to bring you up to speed. if

17:58

you don't know, in August. The Thousand

18:00

and Fifteen. That is when. I.

18:02

Donald Trump and Michael Cohen his attorney

18:04

at the time and David Packer, the

18:07

publisher of The National Enquirer sat down

18:09

according to Packer and Cohen and came

18:11

up with this meeting. In this idea

18:13

where the National Enquirer would help Trump?

18:16

That's according to the testimony of to

18:18

of these individuals. What is the significance?

18:20

Do you think of the fact. That

18:23

the defense attorneys have now gotten

18:25

David Becker to agree that he

18:27

didn't mention Trump's campaign aide and

18:30

White House Aide Hope Hicks being

18:32

at that a original August twenty

18:34

Two Thousand Fifty meeting When he

18:36

first recounted this. To. Prosecutors two

18:38

reasons. One for Absalom in pieces credibility, right

18:40

to take a shot at his credibility and

18:42

maybe his memory right to the could be

18:44

a resubmit. Hope it's been part of other

18:46

meetings going forwards. This was kind of the

18:48

course of conduct having run it as they

18:51

got further into the campaign at my feet

18:53

and might have been back in two thousand

18:55

and fifteen. they were doing it and then

18:57

perhaps me. she was sort of other meetings

18:59

The happened further down the road and I'm

19:01

trying to establish that she was part of

19:03

that as part of a courses. And

19:05

course of conduct for those types of issues. Attorneys

19:07

are at the band's right now because the prosecution

19:09

has to approach. Overt. Objection:

19:12

To. Emile Bove the defence attorney

19:14

his series of questions about Packers past

19:16

testimony. So so this is again this

19:19

is the prosecution object thing or two

19:21

was a gym was just explaining the

19:23

defense attorneys trying to do trying to

19:26

undermine David Packer in some way. perhaps?

19:28

Yeah, I think what's going on here

19:30

is that the dissenters tried to show

19:33

that Packers story has evolved. A classic

19:35

defense Cross examination techniques is to confront

19:37

the witness with the story as the

19:40

first told at when approached by the

19:42

government. And said here's the story unfolds.

19:44

Then today in this courtroom you're a

19:46

different story suggesting it's change. Maybe the

19:48

government was coaching and maybe they were

19:50

planting nuggets. Maybe they want to frame

19:52

the case that a different way as

19:54

new details begin to emerge so it

19:56

looks like what's going on here. Object

19:58

is the prosecutors are getting wise to

20:00

this and the here going to try

20:02

shut down this line of questioning and

20:04

hopefully gets his defense to move onto

20:06

a different topic with with so hope

20:08

Hicks Ah we're told Will will possibly

20:10

testify in this case of former campaign

20:12

aides, a former or White House aide,

20:14

a close to our President Trump and

20:16

add the Trump family and the Trump

20:18

team. What is the purpose do you

20:20

think. Of all of this

20:23

question about whether or not she was

20:25

as the two thousand and fifteen meeting

20:27

as a to establish that this was

20:29

in fact a campaign purpose mean and

20:31

yes. Them guess I don't think

20:33

she was there to help out Donald

20:35

Trump's family. Yeah. Because.

20:38

Well I mean I'm sure. see. Ab America see

20:40

that I should be So so she is about

20:42

as she does Obe Hampshire. She has relationships with

20:44

Ivanka and Milan yeah I mean but it's an

20:46

honor of ah but other times he used to

20:48

work for Ivanka and at the top Yep guys

20:50

which is no Judge Marshawn as dismiss the that

20:52

the jury for the day I wasn't there but

20:54

at that time with on August twenty fifth t

20:56

I read all know the political calendar and what

20:58

is happening at that point in time in terms

21:00

of gearing up for present right Trump is just

21:02

announced his presidential campaign the month before that month

21:04

or two before. If somebody can also go to

21:06

the fact that are trying to look at this

21:08

and say look this was all about. Also,

21:10

Donald Trump's brand right that this is something

21:12

he's been a celebrity forever long before he

21:15

was a schemes a candidate for president. That

21:17

there's as course of conduct that they are

21:19

going to that there were constantly working to

21:21

try to protect the brand. A few will

21:24

and part of that is protect the family

21:26

to family's all part of the brands. That

21:28

could be part of their defense theory at

21:30

the end of the day that this is

21:32

that this is all commonplace because the constantly

21:35

protecting Trump's brand. Like I can I

21:37

say Trump's brand was all cel marla

21:39

maples that he left to. I mean

21:41

it's not as if he had not

21:43

been. In. The Tabloid. You

21:45

have to one way to Marla Maples it's not

21:48

have already have their watches when I met watching

21:50

knows I'm Marla Maples. I know Marla Maples is.

21:52

Backset. Best sex of her life

21:54

she has said although this. Reason.

21:57

The question that I target. You. Remember

21:59

that idea. Remember that what I

22:01

remember is she was Weiss number two

22:03

and that she was having an affair

22:05

with Donald Trump of he was still

22:07

married to Ivana Trump wife my wife

22:09

number one and it was all over.

22:11

Didn't have. So they've joined, the jury has

22:14

left the courtroom, but Jamie brings up an

22:16

interesting idea. which is the idea you know

22:18

First of all, for any presidential. Candidate.

22:20

Or or any President. Separating

22:23

campaign from official government business

22:25

is always difficult, right? And

22:28

Neo Barack Obama candidates Rock Obama

22:31

President it's the same person. Donald.

22:33

Trump had thirty versions of that

22:36

right. a societal property for office

22:38

Donald Trump, The The the Game

22:40

show host Donald Trump, the the

22:42

real estate tycoon Donald Trump the

22:44

state manufacturer and on and on

22:46

and on. So the Trump brand

22:48

is like a legitimately have a

22:50

legitimate that subject for a defense

22:53

it is. And the Trump Brand

22:55

ah was totally. Part. And

22:57

parcel of the campaign in that way

22:59

that are, There's no doubt about that.

23:01

That's why he was immediately recognizable the

23:04

American public unable to be a player

23:06

in this campaign. But remember, This

23:08

is Candidate Trump prior to president. Select

23:10

this when you're running a presidential campaign.

23:13

As you know, There's. Almost

23:15

nothing. You were doing said is

23:17

not in the context of that presidential

23:19

campaign. Yeah Tapa, John Edwards and factors

23:21

Canal was in New York. she's been

23:24

falling every detail from outside the courthouse.

23:26

I care a significant day in court.

23:29

Or as the judges now dismissing the

23:31

jury, Those poor jurors. I get to

23:33

go home and have some time to

23:35

themselves get us up to speed on

23:37

where the defense team left matters in

23:40

it's cross examination of this first witness,

23:42

David Packer. For

23:45

that offense has only been going outdated

23:47

tech or for less than an hour

23:49

about their of the getting a focus

23:52

on t mean been here trying to

23:54

get at these has many deals and

23:56

then magazines and politicians often worked together

23:58

asking is it's hacker if that the

24:00

center the operating procedure and he said

24:02

that it was. He also said that

24:05

he'd been warning Trump's for seventeen years

24:07

about any negative stories unassisted not just

24:09

beginning. Twenty six Pm says one main

24:11

focus on the cross examination has to

24:13

tried to and tell the jury that

24:16

Ahmadis was normal. It's not necessarily a

24:18

legal and that is one of the

24:20

theme that we knew. The Plaza the

24:22

defense with going to be pushing us

24:24

that are also trying to chip away

24:26

at David Packers credibility and they're doing

24:29

advice asking him some. Questions about interview

24:31

he has given with prosecutor saying you

24:33

know he is going back to the

24:35

August Twenty Six Team meeting that this

24:37

is the meeting where the Prosecutor city

24:39

alleged conspiracy between Donald Trump, Michael Collins

24:41

and Betas hacker with had sewage. They

24:43

agreed to catching Sylvie Seal to help

24:45

the campaign for their ask any The

24:47

Packer about his initial interview with prosecutors

24:49

when he said that the meeting was

24:51

at a different state than though data

24:53

it actually was and that he didn't

24:55

remember Hope Hicks being there and which

24:57

he later said that she was so

24:59

trying. To suggest that maybe he has

25:02

altered his story is a common tactic

25:04

that the Templars used to protests cast

25:06

doubt on the credibility of the witness

25:08

and try to make it is though

25:10

that they've been rehearsed pointing out how

25:12

many times he the Packers know if

25:14

prosecutors he said is that with them

25:16

up for five times this year which

25:18

Trump's attorney and doing that her immobile

25:20

they said oh that seems like a

25:22

lot of time to just trying to

25:24

have some doubt in the credibility of

25:26

the the Packers testimonies and on the

25:28

sand. Now for and three. Days he's

25:30

given more than five hours of testimony

25:33

for the prosecution where where he has

25:35

laid out a story and telling them

25:37

the narrative of these tests until deals

25:39

repeating how he had done three of

25:41

them up. buying a story is a

25:43

doorman who said that he had a

25:45

knowledge of Up and that Trump had

25:48

fathered an illegitimate child which is a

25:50

false story spine a caring and Dougal

25:52

story and then bringing the Stormy Daniel

25:54

story to Michael Cohen and repeatedly same

25:56

and he'd done that for the campaign

25:58

and self defense attorneys. I'm getting their

26:00

first chance to try to towns that

26:02

cross examination is expected to go for

26:04

several hours unfold feel as if a

26:07

federal the bath on the sand from

26:09

our morning where they will likely get

26:11

into some of the more specific of

26:13

this case. but right now today and

26:15

their first sampling at him there are

26:17

focusing on just says the deaths of

26:19

this is normal that having sex until

26:21

deals is not illegal and it was.

26:23

He put it standard operating procedure for

26:25

magazines and media to work with politician.

26:27

And Sake and Kara our rewards. A

26:29

real Beauvais is beauvais years ago as

26:31

they must renounce. Yeah.

26:34

Anal those A. Culture of good Enough from

26:36

portrays his handling of your nose or as

26:38

I ask myself how to pronounce a meal

26:41

and they tell me a meal were there

26:43

but I forgot to ask about go back

26:45

or it and any case to see You

26:47

know what's going on right now So the

26:49

assistant District attorney just stained glass is objecting

26:51

or and getting into the objects in they

26:53

had about are both ways. line of questioning

26:55

when it came to they've attacker sunglasses right

26:57

now arguing that Bobby's questions about the F

26:59

B I interview were quote. Improper.

27:02

And left the jury with

27:04

a miss him fashion styling

27:07

glass objecting to Beauvais are

27:09

trying to. Seemingly.

27:11

Or undermine the memory at the

27:13

very least, if not the credibility.

27:16

of David Hacker which is what you would

27:19

expect. A defense attorney on a

27:21

to do I suppose Carrasquillo. Re

27:25

any new you see as all the

27:27

time and cross examination. They try to

27:29

bring up notes on the next the

27:31

I interview or from grand jury testimony

27:33

and then try to and challenge the

27:35

memory as you say other the witness

27:37

and so then what are inconsistent statements

27:39

and then have them try to explain

27:42

why they're inconsistent before the jury's sell

27:44

a sign glass now that the jury

27:46

has left for the day is challenging

27:48

how much sense to trees and do

27:50

best selling swords. Advocacy of pecker is

27:52

the first witness so the question here

27:54

will. Be are trying to set the

27:56

tone of how this can be used

27:58

to tell us census him the other

28:00

witnesses. As his trial plays out or I

28:03

thank you so much. Carousel Gym. So it's

28:05

funny you mentioned dismissive uber. That's what John

28:07

Edwards case, right? So there are a lot

28:09

of parallels here with the John Edwards case.

28:11

Interestingly enough, that was a campaign finance case

28:13

right brought against them, and in this particular

28:15

and in that case he was acquitted. And

28:18

didn't it? And I think that has

28:20

a lot to do with why federal

28:22

charges were brought in connection with this.

28:24

Because those parallels because they more spec

28:26

tastes which really goes the underlying case

28:28

here. Rights they're bringing in these it

28:30

it's a campaign far as a campaign

28:33

issue. New York State law. But. Also

28:35

there are some federal undertones there and then

28:37

ordered. guess that felony. You have to show

28:39

that there was a crime being covered up

28:41

in this case he wasn't swords probably not

28:44

charged because they lost that case against said

28:46

what so I'd without because of United States

28:48

of scandal. Nutter views are know that show

28:50

that we've done on here and seen a

28:53

because of that I knew I remember a

28:55

little bit about or that case. We're waiting

28:57

for a Donald Trump to come out in

28:59

the soon as he speaks. We will bring

29:02

the to live and it was dug out.

29:04

There are clear similarities. In terms of

29:06

what you're spending money on, in

29:08

terms of an extra marital relationship,

29:10

And. How much about is done for

29:13

campaign and how much of them

29:15

that is done to protect your

29:17

family? Without question the key difference

29:19

I would say is in that

29:21

case. Or it was people.

29:23

It. Was it was contributors and supporters of

29:25

John Edwards who are spending the money or

29:27

Bunny Melon and another individual in Texas i

29:30

forget his name. Ah, but those two individuals

29:32

were spending money to keep Rielle Hunter. Are.

29:35

Out of the limelight. Are. But yeah,

29:37

I mean the basic point you're making up

29:39

the money was spent. On. To

29:41

protect the brand of John Edwards and the jury had

29:43

to decide what how much of that was for politics

29:45

and how much of that was for as. His.

29:48

The personal life and they couldn't really decide

29:50

at the end of the day. at least

29:52

not with a unanimous juri that was relevant,

29:54

although they weren't the candidate themselves. individuals yeah,

29:56

no, I the gym is exactly right and

29:59

in the Edwards. There I'm has no doubt

30:01

of you can keep talking. Always makes you

30:03

know. The Edwards case I'm sure loomed large

30:05

when federal prosecutors were engaging with the spat

30:08

pattern. I'm sand are you know in that

30:10

case and that expensive and lead them to

30:12

be cautious in this area. Yeah, let's listen

30:14

in to the defendants. Today

30:19

reserved for authority says

30:21

Russo or went on

30:23

was breathtaking An. Amazing

30:27

system or this is a round.

30:29

It's. Never happened this

30:31

case is ever been filed.

30:34

Anniversaries. An incredible. Incredible.

30:38

Open your eyes they would you let

30:40

this continue to happen to have ventured.

30:44

For another matter you know and account

30:46

of, insisted reported to be doing very

30:48

badly the stock markets way down. As

30:51

horrible numbers came out, it's

30:53

very high numbers on inflation

30:56

particular gasoline. And

30:58

seventy F zones in California is

31:00

usually leads the way. That happened

31:02

to. Very

31:05

important, various. Various

31:08

colleges over the country is the

31:10

I services because putting in other

31:12

areas. You see

31:15

what's on the fruits. Happy

31:17

to do with. Israel

31:20

and fruitiness and. Sending.

31:25

A message. Horrible horrible messages. Noisy

31:27

inner city kids. Be secure for

31:29

two sentences together. you know what

31:31

to do. This is Not a

31:34

President. Is somebody that should

31:36

be doing what he's doing because he can. Talk

31:42

about Charlottesville shows a little.

31:45

And was nothing compared to he

31:48

was a dissenting Iraqis. This tremendous

31:50

A to we have a manager

31:52

talk about understand that he doesn't

31:54

understand what's going on with our

31:57

country. He has enough. The

32:00

world with the last and his

32:02

expenses because the him and his

32:04

administration and today we had idea

32:06

of because I was forced to

32:08

the yes I'm glad I wasn't

32:11

as was a very interesting day

32:13

and certain way for us. Supreme

32:15

court had a. Monumental

32:18

hearing on immunity have the

32:20

ability to do with president

32:23

so. I

32:25

think it was made warehouses made Players

32:28

as a president has thousand. Prisoners

32:30

for of course you could say what.

32:37

They're talking about ceremony one president

32:39

sets in, get things done and

32:41

for people together. So I heard

32:43

the meaningless. For.

32:47

An amazing Justices work on a

32:49

game so long as he other

32:52

himself and again I say presidential

32:54

of is a very powerful person.

32:56

In Soviet it is imperative or

32:59

you practically would have a country

33:01

anymore. Thank you very much Sex.

33:05

Offender: Donald Trump. After the

33:07

third day of testimony, a

33:09

former. Tabloid magnates

33:12

add David Packer are

33:14

coming out on not

33:16

attacking witnesses, not attacking

33:18

jurors. So. His. Lawyers

33:20

can be happy about that. Are.

33:23

Going into campaign issues

33:25

legitimate campaign issues, but.

33:27

Ah, As always. Worth.

33:30

A fact check. So let's bring and soon and samuel day

33:32

I'll. I'll daniel We heard

33:34

of. Talk of the stock

33:36

market down, which is true. And

33:38

place and up. Gas. In California.

33:41

Charlottesville. Being a piano. Give.

33:43

Us what you got as so that

33:45

Sarlis fell I mean, from present from

33:47

said the Charlottesville of Protests and Twenty

33:49

seventeenth with a little peanuts compared to

33:51

what we're seeing now on college campuses.

33:53

Pro Palestinian protesters. I guess that's a

33:55

matter of opinion on which I can't

33:57

render a decision of such acts, but.

34:00

Remember the fact that a woman or

34:02

a counter protester was murdered their in

34:04

Charlottesville? We've had at no reports of

34:06

anything like that happening on any college

34:08

campus today than his pro Palestinian protests.

34:10

He said the heat in Charlottesville paled

34:13

in comparison to the hate. We're seeing

34:15

their again a matter of opinion, but

34:17

let's remember there was neo nazi and

34:19

other white nationalist hate in Charlottesville, so

34:21

know those points on gas prices are

34:23

for President Trump again said it just

34:26

been announced. California a gas seven and

34:28

a half dollars per gallon. There. Always

34:30

are Jake some outlying in a rural a

34:32

deserted stations in California that have high prices.

34:34

but today's average according to Aaa or is

34:36

five dollars and forty one cents per gallon

34:39

and then on the stock market. Yeah it

34:41

has fallen that today in the wake of

34:43

a D Gdp report. But if you look

34:45

I have the Snp numbers are right in

34:48

front of me. If you look at one

34:50

year is up twenty five percent. Year to

34:52

date is that more than six percent. A

34:54

six month it's up twenty two percent. So

34:56

we have had a bit of a decline,

34:59

but let's not suggested. The stock market has

35:01

plummeted under President Biden or in the last year

35:03

in general Daniel just to a point of clarification

35:05

on want to be accused of fact checking or

35:08

fact checker by. Five. Dollars and

35:10

Forty One sense you need you noted as

35:12

the average gas or is that the average

35:14

gas price in California In California California didn't

35:16

specify because in the United States as a

35:19

whole three Dollars and Sixty Five. so that's

35:21

right. Always appreciated the fact that with of

35:23

our i doubt I will. Years ago I

35:25

was a fact checker those how I got

35:28

into this business Thank you. So mercenary, always

35:30

good stared at the have you in here

35:32

bet M in the gym You gotta be

35:34

happy that he's at least a generally speaking

35:37

sticking to ah things he's allowed. It's about.

35:39

And not violating the gag order. His lawyers

35:41

have to be happy about that, right? That's

35:43

it. No doubt about that. I mean, getting

35:45

it. Just the fact that he's mentioning Charlottesville

35:48

has to make his campaign cringe at this

35:50

point. Rights like that just brings back all

35:52

those bad memories about that issue that was,

35:54

or it was a really bad issue for

35:56

him at the time I was in the

35:59

White House when all that was what when

36:01

all that was unfolding And to bring that

36:03

back now was a big mistake on his

36:05

part politically to raise last. but the rest

36:07

of it is campaign rhetoric, right? And he

36:09

also saw him. He. Was. A little

36:12

tired was a long day for me. you know

36:14

I don't think was a good idea that kind

36:16

of go out and do that. Do

36:18

that press press avail in any way shape or

36:20

form if he's not going wow be sharper, make

36:22

us forces or gym raises. Really interesting point out

36:24

David and and Jamie which is. Why?

36:26

Bring of Charlottesville like that is one

36:29

of the ugliest moments of his presidency.

36:31

And yes, we are seeing protests all

36:33

over the country. Most. Of

36:35

them, peaceful, most of them and support

36:37

a Palestinian rights. There has been some

36:39

anti Israel sentiment and there has been

36:42

some anti semitic sentiments without question. But

36:44

that's not with the Neo Nazis in

36:46

the Unite the Right Rally were doing.

36:48

That was not a. Peaceful.

36:50

March that turned into something ugly. It

36:53

was ugly From the word go right.

36:55

And and is actually see started this

36:57

at least this morning. I just quickly

36:59

was looking through This is a new

37:02

seen. That. He's He's.

37:04

Playing on see things and perhaps rightly

37:06

that people are very upset about what's

37:09

going on on college campuses. Just like

37:11

the border he sees it as an

37:13

issue to bring up a just to

37:16

go back to. When he came out

37:18

of the courtroom the first thing he

37:20

said and I think this didn't know

37:22

bagel with a group with actually true

37:25

He said today's testimony in court with.

37:29

Through it was it. It was ransacked. Nine

37:31

aware that the but out of the what

37:33

was. Your most fascinating thing for you are

37:35

today in court. I was personally surprised to

37:37

hear David Zucker. Calling. White

37:39

House aides, Hope X

37:41

and Sarah Huckabee Sanders now

37:44

Gov Sarah Huckabee Sanders ah

37:46

and asking them their opinion

37:48

of whether Karen we could

37:50

do goals hush money untracked

37:52

should be extended and them

37:54

saying. Yes, That

37:56

that is breathtaking. Right? And

37:58

and actually from. There are what

38:00

we've talked about Hope Hicks maybe being

38:03

a witness and he turned to David

38:05

nice and see a thing Gov Sanders

38:07

may be called as as a witness.

38:09

in this case there are. There is

38:11

one thing that wasn't said of is

38:14

shocking is that. But I wonder from

38:16

the jury's point of view whether it

38:18

speaks to David packers credibility. There are

38:20

sometimes things that people just saying a

38:22

certain way and it cuts through. And

38:24

this was about when David Pecker says

38:27

Sir Michael Cohen why should I pay

38:29

I just paid. Thirty thousand dollars for

38:31

the storm and story. Now you're asking

38:33

me to pay a hundred and Fifty

38:35

thousand dollars for the Karen Story. I.

38:38

Said I'm not a bank. In.

38:40

Other words and this place to truth. From.

38:43

Pleasant hangs back for these

38:45

things. I just think. Little.

38:48

Anecdotes like that. Yes, the defense

38:50

is going saying you didn't remember

38:52

that Hope Hicks has had a

38:54

meeting. I. Think. That

38:56

that. Weighed. Against something like

38:58

this. You actually helps the

39:01

prosecutors Woodpeckers credibility. And

39:03

I would you say back to the

39:05

former President for me out, there has

39:07

been a shift in strategy in the

39:09

last couple of days. Like all of

39:12

he's outside, court appearances had been solely

39:14

focused on railing against money go on

39:16

and prosecutions of witnesses and look So

39:18

I don't know that the waiting for

39:20

the gag order ruling or the threat

39:22

of that or she's gotten the advice

39:24

that just as you have this opportunity

39:27

in front of a microphone every day

39:29

with so much attention on its, use

39:31

it for the purpose of your. Campaign

39:33

but it's. This is now

39:35

the second day imports. Were when we

39:38

see him he is on and anti buys

39:40

and more political message that he is on

39:42

his legal message. Yeah I completely agree that

39:44

that possibly the threat of a gag orders

39:46

for of hanging over this right and the

39:48

judge may be looking at this and wondering

39:51

wealth and this man really reform his behavior

39:53

for how serious to the sanctions need to

39:55

be on. He. Struck me as quite

39:57

low energy. Or to coin a phrase

39:59

more aware. If. We

40:01

really know how to hurt Ago has

40:04

that? the Us: I'm. But

40:06

it's a step in the right direction as

40:08

I think The thing that you know, his

40:10

boys must be happy about this. I completely

40:12

agree with him, but you know all of

40:14

these comments has been making. Our. On

40:16

video and choosing or whatever it's a

40:18

currently the subject of this contempt hearing

40:20

by the prosecutors. Also may have the

40:23

option of introducing those comments in trial.

40:25

On because these are typically these statements from the

40:27

defendant, our emissions that can be entered into evidence

40:29

by the prosecution. So it's the government may be

40:32

able to save the end of the day like

40:34

just to play a series of clips from the

40:36

last week or two saying this is what this

40:38

man was doing. Love you. He was on trial,

40:40

He was railing against you, his attacking witnesses, He

40:43

was disobeying the judge's orders. Yeah, there was a

40:45

critical detail of this case. It was not handled

40:47

before quarter join for the day. I and that

40:49

you just heard of an allusion to at our

40:51

special live coverage for ten years as if the

40:53

moments. Just

40:58

before the judge would call former

41:00

tabloid magnate a Woodpecker back the

41:02

witness stand today, prosecutors stopped him.

41:04

they wanted the flag yet for

41:07

additional examples of what prosecutors allege

41:09

were instances. Of Donald Trump

41:11

violating. His. Gag Order to

41:13

not disparage witnesses, jurors, or staffers

41:15

or family of the judge and

41:18

prosecutor. Here's one of them. Describing.

41:20

Court. From. Donald Trump in a

41:23

radio interview Monday. With. Real America's

41:25

Voice. That's.

41:27

Your he was picked so fast.

41:29

Ninety five percent democrats. The

41:32

areas are mostly old democrat. You think

41:34

of it, is it just a purely

41:37

democrat area? It's a very unfair situation

41:39

that I can tell you. The.

41:41

Panel is back and David

41:43

Chalian judge Percent has still

41:45

not. Ah or have issued

41:48

a ruling in whether not Donald Trump

41:50

violated the gag order in the ten

41:52

previous instances and now the prosecutor has

41:55

for new ones. Do. You

41:57

think that he can

41:59

be. Card from that's in

42:01

words like the last to meet post

42:03

court appearances. He adhere to the gag

42:05

order right? Do you think that that's

42:07

working at all? Do you think a

42:10

penalty might have an effect? Was we

42:12

were discussing I do wonder if it's

42:14

some kind of demonstration. says he can

42:16

alter his behavior prior to this ruling

42:18

coming and I don't know if that

42:21

is part of the strategic easily since

42:23

up but what? I. Also, it seems

42:25

to me how much longer we wait for

42:27

this judge to have this ruling. Because or

42:29

the prosecutor if he does indeed by the the

42:31

gag order against in a few hours untrue, social

42:33

or some every day of the prosecutors going to

42:35

start court with us. now we have a few

42:37

more and know a few more and a few

42:39

more and to each of those need to be

42:41

adjudicated. It just seems to me if you're gonna. Have

42:44

a. Game. Plan and

42:46

ground rules which I guess the gag

42:48

orders already supposed to be the brambles

42:50

but of whether or not as being

42:52

violated at him and therefore enforced or

42:54

don't you tell me that in the

42:56

course here before the trial gets too

42:58

much deeper into a we should know

43:00

Jamie game. Go! It's not just he's

43:02

not only gag from saying bad things

43:04

about witnesses, he's by gags. I'm saying

43:06

anything. About witnesses and the reason

43:08

I bring that up is because here's another

43:10

example of him allegedly breaking the gag order.

43:13

Or this is from this morning when he

43:15

made a stop on the way to court

43:17

to talk about David Packer, the key witness

43:19

so far in a positive way. Take a

43:22

listen. I

43:27

wouldn't last a nice Very

43:30

nice as a response. Burners.

43:33

Now it sounds innocent enough to

43:35

maybe some people. but the prosecutor

43:37

said today quote. This is

43:39

a message to Packer. Be nice,

43:41

it's a message to others. What am?

43:44

I can't. Wait, we've heard that before.

43:46

I mean, this is it that said

43:48

about Donald from. Ah,

43:51

And mouth, as you don't I

43:53

thinking at first maybe Judge Marshawn.

43:55

Is waiting be kinds just

43:57

having this hanging over Donald?

44:00

Current head might cause it.

44:02

But. It's not nothing. Is. Going

44:04

to to restrain. Trump

44:07

either either one of the tricky things

44:09

here for for judge where someone the

44:11

lawyers can talk about this his other

44:14

than a thousand dollar fine. Each for

44:16

each By where each. One which is

44:18

not going to bother. Donald.

44:20

Trump too much. When you

44:23

step it up it, it's incarceration and I

44:25

think we've all pretty much who reads as

44:27

not gonna happen. There are a couple

44:29

of intermediate options to that of our the

44:31

Da's office. I'd be considering I'm again. It's

44:34

very possible the stuff uncommon evidence but seconds

44:36

or and eluded this last week. if he

44:38

keeps it up I think they're gonna stop

44:40

giving his lawyers advance notice of which witnesses

44:42

are being called on which days. On.

44:44

An edited actual significant tactical disadvantage in the

44:46

trial because if you don't know which witnesses

44:48

are going on which days you don't know,

44:50

you can't Runners need to be ready who

44:52

don't, Bosses who need to be ready to

44:54

cross examined which evidentiary she's You need to

44:56

be prepared to dress would documents you'd have

44:58

to put an evidence repeat someone's that's way

45:00

more significant than Fifty Thousand Oaks as interesting

45:02

gym. I say this one for you because

45:04

it's from of your hometown and minor Philadelphia

45:06

Channel Six or Donald Trump. I gave an

45:08

interview to Channel six weeks and he brought

45:10

up Mister Cohen or he was aswell Mr.

45:12

Cohen either way Mexico and was discussed. Here.

45:15

It is. Vital

45:18

Town is a convicted liar and he's

45:20

got no credibility whatsoever. He was a

45:22

lawyer and you rely on your lawyers.

45:26

Third, Child sex acts news exclusive it

45:28

says. There is also. And. The

45:30

lawyer but it's specs pretty cut and dry

45:32

Case of a violation of the gag order

45:35

or I don't think that's can stop at

45:37

all I reached yeah Michael Cohen is going

45:39

to be front and center and Donald Trump's

45:41

mind. He had a day to day where

45:43

it came out tried to talk about campaign

45:45

seems a little uncomfortable about wanted to press

45:47

away but didn't I did You just see

45:49

time and time again and Cohen's go to

45:51

do everything he can to try to drawn

45:53

out. Early and often so the

45:56

Donald Trump is going out making comments

45:58

like this about Michael Cohen. He's. The

46:00

Me number one for Donald Trump and he's

46:02

not going to be on help himself. They're

46:04

So now there's going to be an additional

46:06

hearing next Wednesday afternoon. A Lot. in all

46:08

likelihood. with these new instances, you think. It's.

46:12

Hard to say. I mean I'm a little

46:14

curious that unite. I understand the logic of

46:16

like maybe holding us over Trump's head and

46:18

seeing if he can reform his behavior. but

46:20

I do. Also, after completely ago with David

46:22

said he earlier there's an order and place.

46:24

It's very strange for trial the Beagle ongoing

46:26

with prosecutor saying this dissenters violating the sport

46:28

or over and over again and the judges

46:30

in resolving the issue. It sounds like you're

46:32

calling it a two tiered system of justice.

46:34

Perhaps there's a list of we are not

46:36

thousands of to be in that Wednesday hearing.

46:38

Does he on this issue? Because he's supposed

46:40

to campaign of Michigan and Wisconsin. Next Wednesday

46:42

as I write up. So one other thing

46:44

just because we're not are that New York.

46:46

I'm courts and all their wisdom which I

46:48

don't mean sincerely is not allow got cameras

46:51

in the courtroom or despite the obvious public

46:53

interest in this. So here is the best

46:55

we can do which is reporting on some

46:57

of Trump's body language and court. He smirked

46:59

just once when Packer I recounted Trump telling

47:01

room full of people that Pecker knows more

47:03

stories about him than anyone else in the

47:05

rooms and when prosecutors ass about the Access

47:08

Hollywood tape. From. Had his eyes closed

47:10

with a scowl on his face? No, I don't

47:12

know if this courtroom sketch. From. The

47:14

artist Christine Cornell is from that exact

47:16

moment although his eyes are closed. At.

47:19

Get that Kira on off their a dumpster

47:21

their thanks so much as Donald Trump us

47:23

now lane and frowning. But.

47:26

I but it does seem to you know that faced

47:28

him as a recognizable that we've all seen. The

47:33

but I'm very good. What? What Is Amy? What's going

47:35

through his mind Their: this is it. If this is

47:37

the moment where he thought about the Access Hollywood tape

47:39

that is one of his lowest. Moments.

47:41

Politically or that tape coming out everybody thought

47:43

although it wasn't true or that that was

47:45

the end of his political career and he

47:47

wasn't gonna be elected president. In I

47:49

was going to say that you

47:52

never want to ask anyone what's

47:54

going to Donald Trump's mind. on

47:56

the other hand, one or things

47:58

as sure that in this is

48:01

actually pretty transparent, he tells you

48:03

what he's thinking. Let's just remember

48:05

the timing: October before the election.

48:08

Access Hollywood October Seventh. These things

48:10

happen. The Stormy Daniels is two

48:12

weeks before election day. October Twenty

48:15

Seven Twenty Eight. The timing is.

48:17

Critic? Yeah, and I did. I will say

48:19

however much I was, there are cameras in

48:21

the courtroom. I do enjoy the work of

48:24

Christine Cornell's in Rosenberg, the courtroom artisan or

48:26

they're doing exemplary works thanks to one and

48:28

all appreciated. In addition to this critical day

48:30

in the hush money cover up case, there

48:33

was also a major hearing before the Us

48:35

Supreme Court where another Trump defense team force

48:37

for Presidential immunity in a different criminal case.

48:39

We're gonna talk about that next Quests a

48:41

brand new criminal case in Arizona involving several

48:44

Trump allies, but not Mister Trump himself, the

48:46

Arizona Secretary of State. Is going to join me.

48:48

We need to get into all of that. Here on

48:50

the lead, stay with us. I'm.

48:56

On a carton. Welcome to be my

48:58

guest. The Protest. One of the best

49:01

gift you can get friends spending time together.

49:03

But what's even better than that cooking with

49:05

them and be my guess is hard cast.

49:07

New friends and all stuff on

49:09

my bars for some conversation and

49:11

great cooking. We talk about food,

49:14

Life and everything in between. Listen

49:16

to be my guess the podcast

49:18

with me I know, garden and

49:20

join us for ever you that

49:22

you podcasts. C.

49:29

C C and. I

49:33

will go back to the lead. All

49:35

in this our in the law and

49:37

justice lead and this big day for

49:39

gowns a trump Two have his criminal

49:41

cases one courtroom at the same time

49:43

series. Of course a Manhattan has want

49:45

to cover a pile of in Manhattan

49:47

has been on a just wrapped up

49:49

with as a former have more publicity.

49:51

The sectors such as the Back on

49:53

sense for a fourth day Tomorrow the

49:55

defense's having their chances Him You began

49:57

by explain why you believe that. Immunity

50:01

from from little prostitution is

50:03

essential for is a proper

50:06

functioning of the presidency. But

50:08

my question is whether the

50:11

very robust worms immunity that

50:13

you're advocating is really necessary

50:16

in order to. In. Central

50:19

for criminal liability. Is taken

50:21

off the poop? Wouldn't there

50:24

be a significant risk that

50:26

future presidents would be emboldened

50:28

to commit crimes with abandoned

50:30

while they're in office? In

50:33

addition to these two cases, there's also

50:35

a brand new criminal indictment from Arizona

50:37

in an alleged to empty attempt to

50:39

overturn the Twenty Twenty election in that

50:41

state. This one charges. Eighteen.

50:43

Different individuals eight Trump allies.

50:46

From. His inner circle and

50:48

eleven Republican electors in Arizona.

50:51

Arizona Secretary of State is going to join

50:53

me this our to discuss the let's start

50:55

this our with that immunity case before the

50:57

Us Supreme Court today and will bring and

50:59

seen as Evan Paris and Paula Read and

51:01

and policy it appears the Supreme court. Might.

51:04

End up with some sort of middle

51:06

ground here because many justices seems. Skeptical.

51:09

Of Trump's absolute immunity claim that

51:12

anything he did. In

51:14

office or that was impersonal. like

51:16

falls into official duties at Mother

51:18

and his attorney. Kind of Granted

51:20

the mad at seems, but they

51:22

also seems unwilling to greenlight the

51:24

January Six trial together. Yeah, did

51:26

not news that these for Trump? First

51:29

of all, it's clear majority of justices

51:31

are not willing to just toss the

51:33

special counsel's case questions about these official

51:35

as versus private acts and we heard

51:37

as you know, it's time zone and

51:40

thirty's conceded that some other details in

51:42

the indictment aren't that not of Islam.

51:44

So. How do you assess out. With. Or

51:46

official and which are pie that? Well, that's

51:49

the problem because she's just as Robert, for

51:51

example, clearly doesn't think that the lower courts

51:53

prefer The court of Appeal did enough analysis

51:55

to soft that out. What sick? listen to

51:57

what he said. Why

52:00

shouldn't we saw in the send it back to

52:02

the court of appeals? Or. Issue

52:05

and opinion Making clear that that's

52:07

not the law via I am

52:10

defending the court of Appeals judge

52:12

then and I do think that

52:14

there are layered safeguards of the

52:16

court can take into account that

52:19

will ameliorate concerns about unduly chilling

52:21

presidential candidates that concerns us. We

52:23

are not endorsing a regime that

52:25

we think would expose former presidents

52:28

to criminal prosecutions in bad. Safe

52:30

for political animals without

52:32

adequate evidence. Is.

52:36

Doesn't appear that the justices completely by that

52:38

thought It appears they are poised to do

52:40

is set up some kind of past and

52:42

then kicked the entire case of back down

52:44

to the lower courts to analyze again which

52:46

are fish lox with our private off the

52:48

bat additional with a decent would take time

52:50

we don't know how long it's gonna take

52:52

the supreme court for this decision we are

52:54

a how long that litigation Athena takes but

52:56

again every delay benefits Trump because if he's

52:58

reelected he can make both of us federal

53:00

cases go. Way we have in this case

53:03

is very much about Donald Trump wrote

53:05

it's called in the Supreme Court. Battles.

53:07

Are Trump petitioner vs United States

53:10

but. Many. Of the justices,

53:12

if not, most of them seemed very,

53:14

very focused. On. The precedence this

53:16

case could set for future presidents right?

53:19

and and it just big just because

53:21

they they they kept going back to

53:23

that point or I think it's a

53:25

it's a big win frankly for the

53:28

former president of this one of the

53:30

things his his are lawyers kept arguing

53:32

They kept saying that if you allow

53:35

this to go forward this way that

53:37

other presidents could face prosecution or for

53:39

any acts of they commit an office

53:41

and so are you here here's a

53:44

dog Just Gore said describing. What He

53:46

says, What he sees at play here. Listen.

53:50

I'm not concerned about this

53:52

case, but I am concerned

53:54

about future he of the

53:56

criminal law to target political

53:58

opponents based on accusations of

54:00

their motives whether it's reelection

54:03

or who knows what for

54:05

up means And Fifteen Twelve

54:07

right with we don't know

54:09

what that means, maybe we'll

54:11

find out sometime soon, but

54:13

is a dangerous of accusing

54:15

your political opponent of having

54:17

bad motives and and if

54:19

that's enough to overcome your

54:22

poor powers or any other

54:24

limits. And. Listen,

54:26

I'm a world where the most bizarre

54:28

parts of the today I sort of

54:30

was wet weather getting one of the

54:32

justices a raised, the prospect that a

54:34

president might want to commit acts. Illegal.

54:37

Acts in order to remain in power.

54:39

What does that remind you of Bread

54:41

and Apple's like they're talking about the

54:44

Twenty Twenty election and this case that

54:46

we're talking about rights. So it's clear

54:48

that they're very much focused on this

54:50

idea that there be a cycle of

54:52

retribution and again, that's something that that

54:55

that Donald Trump and his team of

54:57

has repeatedly race. Interesting. Thanks so

54:59

much to both you. Let's bring in. Joshua

55:01

A Mass is a former Flair for Justice

55:03

Kennedy and a former Attorney for Eating Carol.

55:05

Also still with a stem cells the served

55:07

as White House Counsel for Donald Trump. Suggests

55:09

Honey up start by playing the argument

55:12

that Trump Attorney. The. John Sour made

55:14

before the court. Take a listen. The

55:17

implications of the court's decision here

55:20

extend far beyond the facts of

55:22

this case. Good

55:25

President George W. Bush and

55:27

then sent to prison for

55:29

obstructing an official proceedings are

55:31

allegedly lying to Congress to

55:33

induce war in Iraq. To

55:37

President Obama be charged with murder for

55:39

killing Us citizens abroad by drone strike.

55:43

Good President Biden someday be

55:45

charged with unlawfully inducing immigrants

55:47

enter the country illegally for

55:50

his border policies. The

55:53

answer to all these questions is

55:55

no. Prosecuting the president for his

55:57

official acts is an innovation. No

56:00

foothold in history or tradition and

56:02

incompatible with our constitutional structure. So

56:05

Joshua, what's your reaction to that

56:07

argument? My. Reaction

56:09

is that it's unsurprising that the for

56:11

Trump's lawyer wants to talk about anything

56:13

other than the facts of his own

56:15

case. And. That he's really

56:18

trying to paint the picture of some

56:20

kind of dystopian future where former presidents

56:22

are prosecuted with abandoned for all sorts

56:24

of partisan reasons. I mean the

56:26

problem with his example is that and I kind

56:28

of agree with him and know the those president's

56:30

could not be prosecuted on any of those grounds.

56:32

The. Not because of absolute immunity, but instead

56:34

because of other protections within our legal system

56:36

which has a point that the lawyer representing

56:39

the Justice Department I thought made very effectively.

56:41

And. In I think coming off of

56:43

this argument, the big question is whether the court

56:46

can find a way between the the fairly extreme

56:48

view. That everything the President does

56:50

is covered with absolute immunity. With.

56:52

The view on the other side that nothing

56:54

the President does is covered with immunity and

56:56

presidents can be prosecuted for any crime after

56:58

they leave office. In. Address clearly disagreed

57:00

about how to strike that balance and and I

57:03

think it's It'll be tough to see whether they

57:05

can arrive at a resolution that allows the case

57:07

to move forward in a timely manner. But.

57:09

But think the position that Mr. Sarah was taking

57:11

in that class is just wildly overbroad. So.

57:13

The newest Justice Clancy Brown Jackson had

57:15

this warning. If the court ultimately finds

57:18

the President's do have absolute immunity, take

57:20

a listen. If.

57:22

Someone with those kinds of

57:25

powers, the most powerful person

57:27

in the world, with the

57:29

greatest amount of authority and

57:31

could go into office knowing

57:33

sat there would be no

57:35

potential penalties for committing crimes.

57:37

I'm trying to understand what

57:39

a disincentive is some turning

57:41

the Oval Office into. Ah,

57:44

you know that that the

57:46

seeds of criminal activity in

57:48

this. Country so gym If

57:50

a president does have absolute

57:53

immunity, What incentive? Might.

57:55

The president, half or following the law

57:57

other than. The. Honor system and is

57:59

good. Grace are and wouldn't essentially

58:01

just state that the President is above.

58:04

The. Law. Yes, Vs with

58:06

that. But I do agree with the points that

58:08

were made earlier and I and I think it's

58:10

important to note that the core powers of the

58:13

presidency and there or perceptions there for the poor

58:15

powers of the presidency and I think that's an

58:17

important. Of the important. Point that

58:19

was just mates. I also think it's important

58:21

to note that the Office of Legal Counsel

58:23

they referred back the offs legal counsel that

58:25

for all. All all administration's that

58:28

there was this idea that the president

58:30

you know could be held criminally liable

58:32

for certain types of criminal conduct. So

58:34

that isn't something new. You know this

58:36

isn't that narrative that this is something

58:39

new, just isn't the case. And I

58:41

think what what could happen here if

58:43

they decide to go down the road

58:45

of say what's official, what's not and

58:47

it gets remanded back. The draft boards.

58:50

And what's the trough what do it through

58:52

with it will What they'll do was hold

58:54

an evidentiary hearing which if if they hold

58:56

an evidentiary hearing spree and witnesses and making

58:59

that determination you can have many trial within

59:01

the trial of the end of the day

59:03

that relates to all of this conduct which

59:06

would be a public forum again bringing our

59:08

old these things that happened or January six

59:10

so if they get a remained yes it

59:12

makes the can down the road. but all

59:15

of these issues that came out of January

59:17

sixth will be read lived in that evidence

59:19

or here. Interesting There was a

59:21

lightning rod of questions are in

59:24

which justice Our Amy Coney Barrett

59:26

a Trump appointee I got prompts

59:28

attorney to concede ah that the

59:30

indictment and lists acts by Donald

59:32

Trump. Allegations. Of behavior

59:35

that would not be covered by president

59:37

will immunity because they were private acts.

59:39

Take a listen. It

59:42

is or turns on private attorney. Was willing to

59:44

spend knowingly false claims and election fraud

59:46

to spearhead sounds of see Elections. Enough

59:48

silent as am I sending me to speak?

59:51

The allegation by the sounds kind of Japan's.

59:53

Time it isn't Arkansas is another private

59:55

attorney to cause the filing in court

59:57

as as assocation signed by citizens can.

1:00:00

For validation to support. Of homes

1:00:02

that for ah, small three. Private

1:00:04

actors to attorneys and sitting as mentioned

1:00:06

above and a political consultant how to

1:00:09

implement a plan to submit fraudulent place

1:00:11

of presidential electors said stop the certification

1:00:13

preceding and petitioner and co concert or

1:00:16

tourney directed that efforts. Are

1:00:18

you a prickly? I believe? Joshua.

1:00:22

What do you make of that concessions?

1:00:24

Is that me a minute to sounds

1:00:26

like own. He's. Great thing that

1:00:28

this stuff isn't covered by immunity.

1:00:31

Therefore, That we some of the

1:00:33

stuff can go forward or in court but I

1:00:35

think I'm wrong about that. but that's what it

1:00:37

sounded like to me. this non lawyer. I.

1:00:40

Don't think you're wrong about it. I thought

1:00:42

it was an extraordinarily important concession, and I

1:00:44

thought it was telling that Justice Parrot was

1:00:46

the conservative justice who was by far the

1:00:48

most skeptical of of Donald Trump's position. I

1:00:50

think those concessions open up a really significant

1:00:52

question. With. Everybody seems to

1:00:55

agree that the indictment against Trump alleges a

1:00:57

number of acts that we're we're private in

1:00:59

the sense that there's no real claim that

1:01:01

they're covered by absolute immunity and Justice Berets

1:01:04

loaded this. this compromise, if you want to

1:01:06

call it that of the argument. Or.

1:01:08

She said, well, look what what if you just drop

1:01:10

all of the stuff that's official Or that maybe official.

1:01:13

Could. You just go to trial with the or

1:01:15

acts that everybody agrees are private. And

1:01:17

you know that seems to be away a potentially a

1:01:19

getting around some of the big issues here. You.

1:01:22

Know that in turn opens up this

1:01:24

big debate about even if they did

1:01:26

that. Could. All of the official

1:01:28

acts which provide a central context and

1:01:30

color. For. The entire conspiracy that's

1:01:33

alleged. Could those be brought in as

1:01:35

evidence? And. Justice Department said

1:01:37

yes and Trump said know if the Supreme

1:01:39

Court wants to think about equip path for

1:01:41

this case to move forward and one that

1:01:44

avoid some of the really thorny questions about

1:01:46

what acts or official and what acts aren't.

1:01:49

It could potentially be man for consideration,

1:01:51

at least. Have. An expedited trial

1:01:53

focused on the private acts. Although.

1:01:55

I think it would really need to give

1:01:57

some guidance. There are about whether the the.

1:02:00

On private acts can still be heard by

1:02:02

the jury as evidence even if they can't

1:02:04

be a separate pieces from liability. Person.

1:02:06

Amia a quick final phone. So I

1:02:08

really think it in the context. in

1:02:10

the use the example of switching out

1:02:12

the Attorney General's the It's Thirty General

1:02:15

can issue these letters that there was

1:02:17

some type of widespread voter fraud, right?

1:02:19

I think that's that that that would

1:02:21

have stopped seem would argue that that's

1:02:23

an official act, right? But it it's

1:02:25

like anything else when you're talking about

1:02:27

an appointment. right? The core power. But

1:02:29

if you're taking a bribe for that

1:02:31

appointments, it's the bride's It's the cloth,

1:02:33

right? So when you're talking about switching

1:02:35

out, the Attorney. General to do something that

1:02:37

another Attorney General General wouldn't do because it's

1:02:40

unlawful. That's when you get into the crux

1:02:42

of the crime. So I do think that

1:02:44

that's there is some exposure there. which is

1:02:46

why I don't think they're just gonna. Blow.

1:02:49

Past kind of the that idea

1:02:51

of what's official what's products. Will.

1:02:53

Say thanks to both. He really appreciated the underlying

1:02:55

case before the Us supreme court has got on

1:02:57

the from Zoc actions on the day of the

1:02:59

capital attack while he was president. The. Now

1:03:01

defunct house January Six committee also investigated his

1:03:03

actions as they were going to a reaction

1:03:05

to these arguments from a former member of

1:03:08

that committees. They were a. Lot

1:03:13

of focus of much of this

1:03:16

day has been in court rooms

1:03:18

in New York and here in

1:03:20

Washington Dc moments ago at Emory

1:03:22

University in Atlanta, Georgia seen such

1:03:24

as this one and protests from

1:03:26

college campus of War in the

1:03:28

Middle East continues to spread. When

1:03:30

the phone is right now would

1:03:32

you W University? George Washington University

1:03:34

here in Washington gave out what's

1:03:36

going on where you are. He

1:03:41

has a Jake were right in the middle

1:03:43

of this exam and on Gw campus or

1:03:45

take a look we're going to give you

1:03:47

like a three four three sixty view here.

1:03:49

There's a really large crowd occupying this part

1:03:51

of his squad. Here on the campus it's

1:03:54

private property. be university sent campus police the

1:03:56

earlier try to clear out students are the

1:03:58

suit is refusing. Now we understand. The school

1:04:00

has called in Dc Police Department Metropolitan

1:04:02

Police for going to be arriving here.

1:04:05

We expect around seven and may have

1:04:07

said they are going to clear the

1:04:09

students out. I've spoken with organizers who

1:04:11

have said they're prepared to stay there

1:04:14

are do not want to leave even

1:04:16

if police tell them they're going to

1:04:18

and that they are prepared to potentially

1:04:20

get arrested and come back if they're

1:04:22

innocent. We cleared out. Interesting,

1:04:25

These protests are spreading Got to

1:04:27

campuses. All. Over the country it

1:04:29

seems. The

1:04:32

as regimented emery we've seen in a Columbia

1:04:35

Us see it is happening all over North

1:04:37

West or just to name a few. and

1:04:39

speaking with organizers and students the Earth there's

1:04:41

clearly that inspiration other has been This organization

1:04:44

here are and to be cleared his or

1:04:46

student success from Cw. This is Visas student

1:04:48

from Georgetown a big group that came over

1:04:50

this afternoon as well as other schools around

1:04:52

the Dc area and they said they were

1:04:55

inspired by what they saw. Us at Columbia

1:04:57

had some of these other schools and so

1:04:59

we're seeing this major seen here. we may

1:05:01

see it. A continued even after their

1:05:04

cleared to the students are saying they're

1:05:06

prepared to come back to have you

1:05:08

thought any the students what what are

1:05:10

they exactly call an hour and has

1:05:12

it been a a peaceful demonstration. Up

1:05:17

again I apologize. We do have a

1:05:19

really loud speaker by does go. Yes

1:05:21

it has been peaceful up to this

1:05:23

point of but again of police have

1:05:26

been sort of standing by on the

1:05:28

side and will use a secret service

1:05:30

police Metropolitan Police. We don't know what

1:05:32

will happen around seven o'clock when a

1:05:34

much larger group of Dc police officers

1:05:36

are expected to come here with the

1:05:38

purpose of getting be sued in South.

1:05:42

So are you talk to some

1:05:44

of the students about what are

1:05:46

they gonna do if the police

1:05:48

the man ah that they leave

1:05:50

the where they are right now

1:05:53

I tell us about that. Will

1:05:58

take if we have it. I did speak with him. Either

1:06:00

a little while ago with ah, who talked about

1:06:02

that A you know I asked directly what are

1:06:04

you going to deal with when police arrived If

1:06:07

they tell students you need to leave now where

1:06:09

be arrested, take a listen. This is what she

1:06:11

told me. Are

1:06:14

you prepared to stay here? even if police demand

1:06:16

that you leave or be arrested? I'm. Prepared to

1:06:19

say hands high, demands are met. Yeah

1:06:23

and so we heard that repeatedly

1:06:25

and from other students as well,

1:06:27

people saying they're ready them for

1:06:29

themselves on the line essentially. And

1:06:32

look, we have seen those romantic

1:06:34

scenes shake or videos that you

1:06:36

have played as other Cnn shows

1:06:38

a blade showing students protesters on

1:06:40

these campuses clashing with police officers

1:06:43

away. I have been at various

1:06:45

pro Palestinian or protests across the

1:06:47

Dc area here in recent months.

1:06:49

Metropolitan Police, the Dc Police Department

1:06:51

There are No strangers. To this have

1:06:53

seen a lot of arrests. The question is

1:06:55

what is going to be that response from

1:06:58

both sides when the officers come in when

1:07:00

they give those warnings a to soon as

1:07:02

we may see a lot of students least

1:07:04

in that moment. But the question is what

1:07:06

will that look like and I believe litter

1:07:08

are ways of the photos we're just showing

1:07:10

their with of police with the with the

1:07:12

guns was at Emory University not a T

1:07:14

W I get going. Thanks so much for

1:07:16

her Second in appreciated our going to go

1:07:18

back to the big A, the Supreme court

1:07:20

and the decision on Donald from pushing for

1:07:22

Presidential immunity. We're going to have reaction from a

1:07:24

former member the January Six mini plus. Donald.

1:07:26

Trump's former Secretary of Defense. That's next day

1:07:28

with Us. Our

1:07:34

presidents immune from prosecution for

1:07:36

official acts. That is a

1:07:39

t question that the Us

1:07:41

Supreme Court. Wrangled. With

1:07:43

today diving into all sorts, a

1:07:45

hypothetical such as can a President

1:07:47

order. The. Military to assassinate

1:07:49

a political rival. Can.

1:07:52

He or she order the military to

1:07:54

stage a coup. While. Those

1:07:56

situations might seem farfetched. It's

1:07:58

worth remembering what. Handed and

1:08:00

com said in a two thousand and

1:08:03

sixteen presidential debate. Gen.

1:08:06

Michael Hayden, former Cia Director, and

1:08:09

I say Director and other experts

1:08:11

have said that when you ask

1:08:13

the Us military to carry out

1:08:15

some of your campaign promises specifically

1:08:17

targeting terrorist families and also the

1:08:20

use of interrogation methods more stream

1:08:22

and waterboarding, the military will refuse

1:08:24

because they've been trained to turn

1:08:26

down and refuse illegal orders. So.

1:08:29

What would you do as Commander in

1:08:31

Chief of the Us Military? Refuse to

1:08:33

carry out those orders though over issues

1:08:35

that are going to reviews from. A.

1:08:39

Day later the Trump campaign walk that back

1:08:41

in a statement saying quoted is clear that

1:08:43

as President I will be. Bound.

1:08:45

By laws just like all Americans and

1:08:47

I will meet those responsibilities unquote. Journalist.

1:08:50

Now the Secretary of Defense for Donald

1:08:52

Trump had marked Asper, who serves on

1:08:54

the border as a strategic advisor to

1:08:57

a handful of aerospace and defence related

1:08:59

company secretary Us for as a former

1:09:01

Trump senior official. On. What was

1:09:03

it like? listening to

1:09:05

the supreme court as they debated

1:09:08

as these hypothetical today that maybe.

1:09:10

Didn't. Seem all that hypothetical. Are

1:09:15

good actor Jake Ethic. First and foremost it was

1:09:17

a of for a very serious debate and discussion

1:09:19

from the small parts of our heard about it

1:09:22

and why I read about it. As.

1:09:24

I like the save. I hate these

1:09:26

examples being brought up about some how

1:09:28

the military be one or two, a

1:09:30

junior, a true, or the use of

1:09:32

the military to kill political opponent. It's

1:09:34

just so outlandish. it's it's it's utterly

1:09:36

ridiculous. And I wish we would say

1:09:39

wait, most examples, maybe look at more serious ones.

1:09:41

But. It was clear that the court

1:09:43

has teased out that there is a

1:09:45

difference between immunity for official conduct. And.

1:09:48

Then no immunity for personal conduct and

1:09:50

and justice. Any cody, a bird or

1:09:52

really put that trump's difference turning on

1:09:55

a spot in, he conceded that and

1:09:57

in a series of up. Of.

1:09:59

Charges that she raised and he conceded the

1:10:01

private points of itself. I think there is

1:10:04

obviously the station. On the suppose

1:10:06

it is not above the law know American

1:10:08

is about the lawn. I think that is

1:10:10

important principle it's you gotta support for So

1:10:13

in response to these questions before the Us

1:10:15

Supreme Court right now, three groups of former

1:10:17

military National Security officials filed. A

1:10:19

friends of the Court a brief which

1:10:21

reads in part quote any military officers.

1:10:24

Who. Knowingly issued are carried out Such an

1:10:26

on lawful order would themselves be. Criminally.

1:10:29

Liable unquote in your decades of

1:10:31

experience in the military Under Secretary

1:10:33

of Defense? Do you think. A.

1:10:36

Situation could ever arise. Where.

1:10:39

A soldier or a general was commanded

1:10:41

to do something. They. Know is

1:10:43

illegal, but they do it anyway because

1:10:45

they were given direct orders. What?

1:10:50

Gun. Nothing's ever impossible, but I find it

1:10:52

very hard to believe that eight a senior

1:10:54

officer in the United States military or even

1:10:56

As and a junior officer for that matter

1:10:58

would obey and a legal order it. I

1:11:01

went to West Point at said so many

1:11:03

years on active duty and than on reserve

1:11:05

duty as well and it is drilled into

1:11:07

our our heads into the ethics of a

1:11:09

profession. That. You don't have a on

1:11:11

the a lawful i'm awful orders and that

1:11:14

you have a duty to resist to oppose

1:11:16

them. And. So I believe that's ground

1:11:18

into our it's our military across all

1:11:20

the services. It's part the culture. It's.

1:11:22

Also for the fundamental principles or survey control

1:11:24

The military but there's there's a limit when

1:11:26

it comes to unlawful order so I just

1:11:29

don't believe that be the case I think.

1:11:31

The. Fact is professional military ethic. The

1:11:33

understanding of the duties of the military

1:11:35

ah to not follow a lawful orders

1:11:38

would prevail a look at face that

1:11:40

in some ways you might recall. And

1:11:42

January twenty or twenty twenty or so.

1:11:46

President. Trump made a statement about the

1:11:48

United States will attack Iran historical and cultural

1:11:50

sites and I went on T V and

1:11:52

said no or we will not do that.

1:11:55

We're. Gonna follow the laws of why I'm warfare

1:11:57

and I felt it important that time. To.

1:11:59

Make us. A Statement. They're not just to

1:12:01

the American public, but really to the

1:12:03

United States military or professional armed forces.

1:12:06

That. We will continue to follow the

1:12:08

laws of when warfare and an

1:12:10

honor the obligations and legal obligations

1:12:12

of our profession. Before you got

1:12:14

want to get your reaction to

1:12:16

some news are out of Gaza

1:12:18

today and Israel says that quote

1:12:20

terrorists. Shot. Mortars at a

1:12:23

humanitarian work side in northern Gaza

1:12:25

towards this peer that the Us

1:12:27

is trying to construct. This peer

1:12:29

would be there to get more

1:12:31

humanitarian aid. Into Gaza

1:12:33

by see. The Un

1:12:36

is characterizing this is a minor incidents if

1:12:38

he were Secretary Defense right now how much

1:12:40

you respond. I'd

1:12:43

be very concerned and look I was

1:12:45

concerned from day one. are speaking about

1:12:47

this on Cnn that us a major

1:12:49

factor years the vulnerability of our of

1:12:51

forces you're talking about. Thousand service members

1:12:53

or so are constructing this peer. This

1:12:55

peers going to be relatively narrow but

1:12:57

for the stretch of the eighteen hundred

1:12:59

feet. Onto the Mediterranean in order

1:13:01

to up and connect the floating peer

1:13:04

to other vessels that would be offered

1:13:06

a cargo a little bit farther away

1:13:08

and so the quite open to both

1:13:10

direct fire. Think about rifles, machine guns,

1:13:12

but indirect fire which are mortars and

1:13:14

artillery And that's what we saw today.

1:13:17

And of course you could shoot worse

1:13:19

artillery for miles miles away without attribution

1:13:21

and cause harm to Us forces. Kill

1:13:23

Service members admit that you could destroy

1:13:25

the pier quite easily and certainly disrupt

1:13:27

operations. I think it is a very

1:13:30

big vulnerability. A much for. We worked

1:13:32

out all the issues and keep in mind

1:13:34

yourself to do that. A threat to see

1:13:36

now to So these are big issues of

1:13:38

it. Very concerned I want to talk on

1:13:41

see what the Israelis about security phone as

1:13:43

appear at the site and on the pier

1:13:45

during operations. Secretary. As her good

1:13:47

to see! Thanks so much. Supreme. Court

1:13:49

Justice Clarence Thomas chose to not recuse himself in

1:13:51

this case, despite the fact that his wife. Jenny.

1:13:54

Had communications with the White House after

1:13:56

the twenties when he likes and about

1:13:59

undermining the election. I'm going to

1:14:01

have my next guest about. That was

1:14:03

another big case with ties to Donald

1:14:05

Trump. The new charges against eighteen individuals

1:14:08

from Arizona including Trump allies such as

1:14:10

Mark Meadows and Rudy Giuliani, and eleven

1:14:12

fake aleck tours will be right back.

1:14:19

Where. Back today, the Us Supreme court

1:14:21

dissected former President Trump's claim that he

1:14:24

has. Absolute immunity, get out

1:14:26

of free, get out of jail,

1:14:28

free card, or for any official

1:14:30

action that would completely dismantled the

1:14:32

Federal Action subversion case against him.

1:14:35

Listen. To how the you Attorney representing

1:14:37

the Us Government and Special Counsel Jack

1:14:39

Smith laid it out. His

1:14:43

normal theory which immunized former

1:14:45

presidents for criminal liability from

1:14:47

Barbary Trees and sedition murder

1:14:50

and see are conspiring to

1:14:52

use fraud to overturn the

1:14:54

results of an election and

1:14:56

perpetuate himself in power. Such

1:15:00

presidential immunity has no foundation and

1:15:02

the institution of framers new to

1:15:04

well the dangers of a kings

1:15:06

who could do no wrong. Congresswoman.

1:15:09

Zola going a democrat from California, joins

1:15:12

me now. She was a key member

1:15:14

of the January Six Committee congresswoman locker

1:15:16

injustices as signal today that they were

1:15:18

skeptical of of Trump's claim. That.

1:15:21

He had complete immunity for anything he did that was

1:15:23

an official app. But. They also pushed

1:15:25

back on how would the

1:15:27

special counsel frames the case.

1:15:30

How much we do you think it is that the court's

1:15:32

gonna. Try. To reach a middle ground

1:15:34

ruling that might push this trial beyond November's

1:15:36

election or that they might kick back to

1:15:38

the a lower court. That

1:15:41

will also. Pro. Long. All of

1:15:43

this. Want

1:15:46

to say take a the court is

1:15:48

not looking. Impartial or nonpartisan at

1:15:50

this point, or they didn't need to

1:15:53

take this case at all. The appellate

1:15:55

court decision was tightly drawn and correct,

1:15:57

or they didn't take it early on

1:16:00

once they gave an indication are they

1:16:02

dragged it out. And. Really

1:16:04

the debate. Today. So.

1:16:07

To a very serious problem which is

1:16:09

they are not deciding the case before

1:16:11

them are. In instead engaging

1:16:13

and flights of fancy you that

1:16:15

would involve further delay. Honestly,

1:16:18

You know, All. Of us more

1:16:20

years are also called. Officers of the

1:16:23

courts were trained to believe in the

1:16:25

impartiality of the court said, especially the

1:16:27

supreme court. but it's tough to do

1:16:30

today. It doesn't look like

1:16:32

they look like partisan hacks. I'm

1:16:34

sorry and it's a it's a

1:16:36

great concern to me, a great

1:16:38

concern to the preservation of our

1:16:40

democracy that we couldn't actually get

1:16:43

it's file. Of someone who

1:16:45

tried to overturn the election

1:16:47

before the next election. Is.

1:16:49

Preposterous. So I'm in the sense

1:16:52

of Justice Amy Coney Barrett. I

1:16:54

will say I mean she did

1:16:56

get Trump's attorney to concede that

1:16:59

several. Of. The accusations

1:17:01

against happen the Special counsel's

1:17:03

indictment. Ah did not

1:17:05

constitute. Or official conduct in

1:17:07

in fact, we're person all acts. Does

1:17:10

that Not At least exempt Amy Coney

1:17:12

Barrett from. Your charges

1:17:14

have partisan hack henri. Well.

1:17:18

Here's my home. My hope is on wrong.

1:17:21

My. Hope is that they dismiss

1:17:23

the stay. That. They

1:17:25

decide the case before

1:17:27

them. Bad. Overturning the

1:17:29

constitution cannot be an official act

1:17:32

and let the trials to proceed.

1:17:34

I would love to be wrong

1:17:36

on this. But I'm

1:17:38

I'm very concerned about what it looks like

1:17:40

they're going to do. Just.

1:17:42

As Gore such as said something

1:17:44

along the lines of that he's

1:17:47

less concerned with this case before

1:17:49

them specifically as it pertains to

1:17:51

Trump and more concerned about how

1:17:53

what they roll on presidential Immunity

1:17:55

a will impact future presidents. I'm.

1:17:57

You. Do not see his argument that

1:18:00

all I mean this will be a precedent.

1:18:04

Want you know, these guys think

1:18:06

they're conservatives? And. What conservatives

1:18:08

do is decide the case

1:18:10

that is before them. That's.

1:18:13

Not what of that justice

1:18:15

seem to imply. They should decide

1:18:17

to case. It is before them not

1:18:20

go off on tangents. a for potential

1:18:22

cases that are not the for them.

1:18:24

Tommy Someone So Lofgren democratic California Thank

1:18:26

you so much! Always good to see

1:18:28

you. Bake.

1:18:31

You. Can. We up Mark Meadows

1:18:33

and Rudy Giuliani are just so

1:18:35

of the boldface name's included in

1:18:37

a brand new indictment in Arizona

1:18:39

about the alleged attempt to overturn

1:18:41

the Twenty Twenty election in that

1:18:43

state. The Arizona Secretary of State.

1:18:46

Will. Be here next. As

1:18:51

the Us. Supreme Court decides whether

1:18:53

former President Trump will go to

1:18:55

trial for charges that he plotted

1:18:57

to overturn the Twenty Thousand election,

1:18:59

a Grand jury in Arizona just

1:19:01

indicted several key Trump allies including

1:19:03

Rudy Giuliani and Mark Meadows and

1:19:05

Boris Epstein in their efforts. To. Overturn

1:19:08

from twenty thousand election loss in

1:19:10

that state. The indictment also includes

1:19:12

charges against so called faith aleck

1:19:14

tours in Arizona. Which. Reads

1:19:16

quote In Arizona and the United States

1:19:19

the people elected President Biden is presidents.

1:19:21

On. November Third, Twenty Twenty. Unwilling

1:19:23

to accept this fact. Defendants.

1:19:26

An unindicted coconspirators

1:19:28

schemes. To. Prevent the lawful

1:19:30

transfer of the presidency. To. Keep

1:19:33

unindicted coconspirators And number One.

1:19:36

In office against the will.

1:19:38

Of. Arizona's voters. The. Details

1:19:40

in the indictment suggest Trump

1:19:42

is one of those unindicted

1:19:45

coconspirators. Sound. Like he's coconspirators number

1:19:47

one. Here. To explain the cases,

1:19:49

Arizona Secretary said Adrian Font is

1:19:51

our. First. All the me to

1:19:53

start with: Why is Arizona pursuing

1:19:55

this case And Why. So.

1:19:58

Late. Well

1:20:01

for thanks for having the on Jake

1:20:03

And second the question of lateness really.

1:20:06

Ah, I don't think is that relevant

1:20:08

to the Attorney General's office was very

1:20:10

thorough and it's investigation. They followed the

1:20:12

facts where the facts let them. Out

1:20:15

original Chris Maze and her team

1:20:17

have been working with his Secretary

1:20:19

of State's office and other agencies

1:20:21

to make sure that they could

1:20:23

cross the T's and.all of the

1:20:25

eyes and they found enough facts

1:20:27

to take to a grand jury.

1:20:29

The grand jury then figured the

1:20:31

there was probable cause to bring

1:20:33

these charges and the grand jury

1:20:35

decided to indict. And so we

1:20:37

find ourselves here today with the

1:20:39

eleven accused. Ah, quote unquote

1:20:41

fake electors and several coconspirators who by

1:20:44

the way are all innocence until they

1:20:46

are proven guilty in a court of

1:20:48

law. Why he

1:20:51

down Trump is obviously Coconspirators

1:20:53

unindicted Coconspirator number One. Oh,

1:20:55

why not indict him? I certainly

1:20:58

wouldn't be the first time. Well,

1:21:03

having been a prosecutor in the past, I

1:21:05

can tell you there's gotta be some good

1:21:07

reason you'd have to ask the Attorney General

1:21:09

however, on the Secretary of State and as

1:21:11

the Chief Collection Officer. My. Job

1:21:14

is to make sure that we ensure the integrity

1:21:16

of the elections which we have done or for

1:21:18

quite some time and we will continue to do.

1:21:21

This is a criminal matter who belongs

1:21:23

to the criminal courts and the criminal

1:21:26

prosecutors. Ah, they've made their determinations but

1:21:28

release both of those things Are election

1:21:30

systems and our criminal justice systems are

1:21:33

pillars of our democracy. Operating under this

1:21:35

general concept of the rule of law

1:21:37

and where the laws broken. Very glad

1:21:39

to have this guaranteed. Or

1:21:41

that the accused kinda face their accusers. They

1:21:44

can have the guarantees of council and et

1:21:46

cetera. And that's the important thing

1:21:48

in the rule of law. Law will prevail and

1:21:50

hopefully just as will be done at the end.

1:21:53

Regardless, Of what The alchemist. One.

1:21:55

All this was going on during before

1:21:57

and after the twenty thousand he laughs.

1:22:00

Then you were the recorder. Are.

1:22:02

For Maricopa County, that most

1:22:04

populous county in Arizona, Out

1:22:07

what did you witness and do you

1:22:09

think you'll be called to testify? Well

1:22:14

as the Maricopa County Recorder. At the time of

1:22:16

the twenty two thousand election, I was actually on

1:22:18

the ballot as well, and my race didn't turn

1:22:20

out the way I wanted to. Ah,

1:22:23

And as all good Americans and good

1:22:25

American spirits, Ah, I conceded my

1:22:27

race or my own two feet. Or

1:22:29

to my successor, Recorder, Stephen Richer and we

1:22:32

moved along. That's what we're supposed to do

1:22:34

in the United States of America. The peaceful

1:22:36

transfer of power is one of the pillars

1:22:38

under the rule of law that keeps us

1:22:41

ah in the fourth of human development in

1:22:43

the world. Now I saw a Lot. I

1:22:45

saw a lot of great people doing a

1:22:47

lot of great work. And then

1:22:50

as time move forward I saw lot of

1:22:52

them fall under false accusations, conspiracy theories and

1:22:54

lies. And that is why we are where

1:22:56

we are today. Not because there was anything

1:22:59

wrong with the elections that we ran. Not

1:23:01

because anybody did anything wrong about, because

1:23:04

there were certain individuals who just didn't

1:23:06

like the outcome. and now they are

1:23:08

moving to destroy our democracy simply because

1:23:11

of that thought that is untenable. At.

1:23:13

This criminal prosecution is only one

1:23:15

facet. Of the fight that

1:23:17

we have against those who advance

1:23:19

against our democracy and we've got

1:23:21

be vigilant to protect every institution,

1:23:23

the free press or courts or

1:23:25

judiciary and etc. This is ah

1:23:28

part of what makes us who

1:23:30

we are. As Americans, we need

1:23:32

to preserve and protect that democracy

1:23:34

or through the rule of law

1:23:36

and these important processes. Talk if

1:23:38

he would about the individuals who

1:23:40

were indicted who were part of

1:23:42

this a fake Elect Tours scheme.

1:23:44

Or one of the defense's you hear from

1:23:47

Trump attorneys are is this was just an

1:23:49

alternate slate of elect or as in case

1:23:51

it went to Congress it wasn't meant to

1:23:53

be a pulling the wool over a one's

1:23:55

eyes of tell us what you saw when

1:23:58

it came to the fake elect or. Well,

1:24:03

what I saw were signed documents making

1:24:05

specific claims. But let's be honest here,

1:24:07

it isn't my opinion that matters is

1:24:09

the opinion of the Grand jury. those

1:24:11

citizens who are impaneled to enforce the

1:24:14

law and to bring an indictment. If

1:24:16

there was sufficient evidence to make these

1:24:18

charges, I believe those citizens who operated

1:24:20

under oath or did their job I

1:24:22

believe these incitements are at this time

1:24:25

We'll give as a criminal defendants their

1:24:27

opportunity to tell their side of the

1:24:29

story or in a court of law

1:24:31

if they so. Choose they might and

1:24:33

with a plea agreement with this is

1:24:35

just the beginning. Now, as this story

1:24:38

unfolds, know it's not as we know,

1:24:40

dissimilar to the story we saw across

1:24:42

the United States of America. I can

1:24:44

imagine as a former prosecutor that the

1:24:46

Attorney General will try to bring a

1:24:48

lot of that other evidence to show

1:24:50

a pattern and practice or the pattern

1:24:52

of behavior from that period of time.

1:24:54

But again, ah, our job right now

1:24:56

is to preserve the rule of law

1:24:58

to make sure that we don't lose

1:25:01

these institutions to rumors as. Windows and

1:25:03

gases which is what has been eroding.

1:25:05

Our faith in. Other As Americans

1:25:07

itself is a lot of speculation that the

1:25:09

I won't be engaged in, but I do

1:25:11

appreciate the opportunity to talk about the great

1:25:13

work that election workers have done and continue

1:25:15

to do across the United States of America.

1:25:18

Arizona Secretary of State Adrian Contests think you

1:25:20

so much for your time with bringing recast

1:25:22

and is a professor at U C L

1:25:24

A Law School. He's also the author of

1:25:26

the book A Real Right To Vote How

1:25:28

A Constitutional Amendment. And. Safeguard American

1:25:30

democracy. I'm Rick. Why

1:25:32

do you think I'd Trump is

1:25:35

unindicted coconspirator number One not indicted.

1:25:37

And what are you think of

1:25:39

the fact that it almost to

1:25:41

four years to get this indictment

1:25:43

going? Thanks.

1:25:46

For having the and of the first thing I'd say is

1:25:48

that. Our justice system tends

1:25:50

to move slowly and deliberately, which generally

1:25:53

is pretty good thing in terms of

1:25:55

protecting criminal defendants, right? It's just not

1:25:57

well equipped to deal with attempts. To.

1:26:00

Subvert. The outcome of a presidential election?

1:26:03

We don't have a lot of experience with

1:26:05

their such a Merrick Garland. A long time

1:26:07

to bring a special prosecutor on for the

1:26:09

federal case. The. State cases proceeded

1:26:11

state by state. I think some

1:26:13

of the evidence that came out

1:26:15

from Kenneth Chesbrough in Wisconsin ended

1:26:17

up providing more information that led

1:26:19

to yesterday's indictments in Arizona. Ah,

1:26:21

so if for Trump's he may

1:26:23

be able to run off the

1:26:25

clock. but for these other defendants,

1:26:28

I think these things are going

1:26:30

to go on for the next

1:26:32

few years and they might actually

1:26:34

see some trials. And some

1:26:36

criminal convictions. Prosecutors in Michigan, Georgia, Nevada

1:26:38

have also brought criminal charges against some

1:26:40

of the people who signed on his

1:26:43

Sake Aleck tours. In. Those states

1:26:45

explain why the state cases might

1:26:47

be more successful than the federal

1:26:49

case. Ultimately, Well,

1:26:53

you know, the Federal case against

1:26:55

Trump for election interference. That's the

1:26:57

one that's on hold as this

1:26:59

immunity issue is being put out.

1:27:01

that's only against Trump. Ah

1:27:04

Trump is one of many in Georgia

1:27:06

and sense as you mentioned is not

1:27:08

part of this. In Arizona they're different

1:27:11

state laws that apply so are in

1:27:13

Arizona and some moves other states. They're

1:27:15

safe. Fraud laws that apply here. You're

1:27:18

signing fraud, some documents saying this is

1:27:20

an official documents. That

1:27:22

is providing who the states slate of electors

1:27:24

is. That might be easier to prove than

1:27:26

some of the claims that would come on

1:27:28

the federal level. And I think

1:27:31

probably different calculations are being made on

1:27:33

the Federal level. Just go after Trump

1:27:35

and try and be laser focused on

1:27:37

that. Whereas. On the state level,

1:27:39

if you go after Trump then you face

1:27:41

potential new the arguments there and you make

1:27:44

the case more complicated. So I have prosecutors

1:27:46

have discretion, but they also has to be

1:27:48

realistic about getting these cases trial and actually

1:27:50

getting some juri to make a determination about

1:27:52

them less certain to the major arguments in

1:27:54

the Us supreme Court today. How likely they

1:27:57

think it is that the supreme court will

1:27:59

end up delay. This trial.

1:28:01

Beyond. The November Election Based

1:28:04

on what you heard today from

1:28:06

the justices. What

1:28:08

they are regulated a lot I don't know.

1:28:10

If you're member Project Smith, the Special Counsel

1:28:12

try to get the courts to intervene before

1:28:14

the Dc circuit back in December. the court

1:28:17

said no them. With the fourth set it's

1:28:19

for argument. They gave us to month window

1:28:21

for it, now a private another two months.

1:28:23

For. A decision the justices seems

1:28:25

somewhat divided today. I think it's really

1:28:28

unlikely we would see a decision before

1:28:30

the end of June the beginning of

1:28:32

July, and that decision is likely going

1:28:35

to split the baby. It's going to

1:28:37

result in a remains where there's gonna

1:28:39

be more work for the lower courts

1:28:41

to do. I would be very surprised

1:28:44

to see Donald Trump or go to

1:28:46

trial before the November elections. Despite. Our.

1:28:49

I U C L a law professor Chaos and thank you

1:28:51

so much! Good to see A will be right back. Sauce

1:28:55

Money cover up for our picks up again

1:28:57

first thing tomorrow. Morning's in and will of

1:29:00

course have special coverage. Former. Tabloid

1:29:02

magnate David Pecker is expected to

1:29:04

be back on the stand from

1:29:06

defense teams will continue their cross

1:29:08

examination Roth. I'm still waiting on

1:29:10

the judge's decision for a potential

1:29:12

punishment for Trump. For. Allegedly violating

1:29:14

the gag order that has been issued

1:29:16

telling him to not bad mouth or

1:29:18

even discuss jurors, witnesses and others soon

1:29:20

as a nice to get to speed

1:29:22

on what played out in the case

1:29:24

today. especially easy for sixty and which

1:29:26

Ac Anderson Cooper will go through the

1:29:28

major moments in the Has Money cover

1:29:31

up for our that's Tonight at Eight.

1:29:33

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