0:00

Welcome to Savage Starlight, the officially unofficial

0:02

podcast for the last of us on HBO. I'm

0:04

Jim. I'm Eran. And today,

0:06

we're talking season one episode six.

0:09

Ken,

0:10

Aron, what do you think of this episode after

0:12

multiple watches? I,

0:15

you know, I liked episode quite a bit when I

0:17

first watched it. I've watched it

0:19

couple times since then. I feel like I

0:21

like it a little bit more. I

0:24

think also there's a lot of, you

0:26

know, kind of deep cuts that they put in here in

0:28

terms of character notes, in terms of

0:32

you know, world building that I got a

0:34

lot of out of after I watched

0:37

the I listened to the official podcast and watched

0:39

the episode again. Yeah.

0:41

I I really like it. I think we

0:43

talked last week about the nessess necessity sometimes

0:46

at the game when it throw

0:48

a real bang or action sequence at to for

0:52

it usually paces it out so we're the, you

0:54

know, the

0:57

the the next time you rejoined

0:59

Joel and Ellie in the action, they're just kind of walking

1:01

through a fairly tranquil, peaceful, you know,

1:03

to give you time to process it as well

1:05

as the characters. And I feel

1:07

like this episode was that little interim

1:10

sequence where it's bridges to

1:12

what's gonna be, you know, two

1:14

pretty intense set pieces of scenes with

1:17

lots of drama, lots of personal stakes.

1:20

With this episode, which is entirely based

1:23

on the relationship of of Joel

1:26

and Ellie, and whether they're gonna

1:28

finally well, I guess, whether Joel

1:30

is finally gonna be able to trust himself, trust

1:32

Ellie, learned to to

1:34

fully love and commit again

1:37

or whether he's just dead. Like

1:40

Yeah. Whether he's trailed her for the final time.

1:42

You know, it's

1:44

cool, rough. And

1:46

and I still really like post apocalyptic living,

1:49

you know, like the commune lifestyle. I

1:51

thought that was, like, you know, getting to see Jackson

1:54

was was was a real treat.

1:56

What about you, Jim?

1:58

Yeah. No. I'm with you. I like

2:00

it better the second time around. I got

2:02

more of the the nuance and the things that they were

2:04

trying to do emotionally

2:06

with Joel here. And

2:09

yeah worked really well for me. It's it's

2:11

okay that this is a slower episode. There's

2:13

not a single infected in the entire

2:15

episode. I think that's fine. I've

2:17

never had a huge problem with that in the show.

2:22

Yeah. Yeah. I I really enjoyed it.

2:24

And and it is ending on a big cliffhanger.

2:27

I typically I

2:30

typically don't like cliffhangers like

2:32

these. Because

2:34

it's not a what

2:36

next kind of cliffhanger? It's a what

2:39

happened kind of cliffhanger? You know,

2:41

is Joel Dad isn't dead.

2:43

How is that gonna affect Ellie? I'd

2:45

like to know the outcome of that, so I'd know how

2:48

that affects Ellie or

2:50

doesn't if he lives. You know? It's I

2:53

don't know. Those cliffhangers usually don't do

2:55

it for me, but I feel like

2:58

I'm willing to forgive that. In this show because it's

3:01

been so good up to now.

3:03

There's a debate among the online credit

3:05

community it seems about whether this actually

3:07

qualifies as a true cliffhanger because,

3:10

you know, a cliffhanger is kinda like, will

3:12

someone or won't someone die

3:14

or get out of a situation -- Mhmm. --

3:17

whereas this was more of, like, you know,

3:19

how is Ellie going to react

3:21

to the situation, which is the kind of,

3:23

you know, those are the the cliffhangers we

3:25

like, you know, the ones that are just like, oh god,

3:27

something that's happened. Now now what is gonna

3:29

be the response? I

3:31

obviously, I think it's a cliffhanger. It's intended

3:33

to be a cliffhanger. Pretty obviously.

3:37

You know, Jola's could potentially be mortally

3:39

wounded. Any wound to the torso in

3:42

this society could be a fatal

3:44

wound. They are five days

3:46

ride from any distance. You know, if this happened

3:49

right outside the gate to Jackson's wheel around, they probably

3:51

pin and cylinders. You know, this certainly

3:53

would be easier to be treated, but, like, they are

3:56

No. Ellie, she is

3:58

utterly alone. And, you know,

4:01

in her whole territory. Yeah. And

4:03

the whole episode has told us that

4:06

she can't do this without him. She

4:08

doesn't think she can do you know, well, Ellie thinks she can

4:10

do anything, but she doesn't think she can get herself

4:12

safely to the firefly. Medical

4:14

research compound without Joel. And

4:16

she's probably right on that. So Is

4:18

it a Is it me a

4:19

manger? I don't know. Yeah. It's certainly

4:21

a cliffhanger. I think there's a big opportunity

4:24

for growth here for Ellie

4:26

regardless of what happens with Joel. Right?

4:29

Because clearly, if he lives, he's in no state

4:31

to take care of himself. If he dies, he's

4:33

abandoned her and she's completely alone. So,

4:35

like, she's going

4:38

to have to level

4:40

up in some kind of way, right, to get through

4:43

this. And,

4:45

yeah, I'm super excited to see how they

4:47

play that next episode.

4:48

Yeah. And that, you know, I will say that when I was

4:50

playing the game the first time through I felt

4:53

like it wasn't a foregone conclusion that

4:55

Ellie and Joel would make it through the end of the story.

4:57

Sure. Yeah. And when

5:00

you're watching this TV show, I think

5:02

that there's a lot of depth.

5:04

This is a lot of this is a really realistic

5:06

universe. And I

5:09

think that's got to be on your mind that

5:11

literally no one is safe in the last

5:13

of us universe. And,

5:16

you know, we're getting to the towards the

5:18

end the end of the the series and a potential

5:20

arc. You know, obviously, an arc is Joel and Ellie

5:22

can learn to to love each other as surgeon

5:25

father and daughter and find a way

5:27

in the world, but part of it is could be a coming

5:29

of age, Ellie's story where she has

5:31

to grow and stretch,

5:34

you know, like like an anti Joel. Like,

5:37

Joel is forged in the fires of Sarah dying.

5:39

It could possibly be that gonna be forged

5:41

in the fires of her

5:43

surrogate father died before the end of this thing. So

5:45

it's like it's like

5:47

like S01E06 people are saying a shmuck bait And

5:50

the Shmuck bait is like in the middle of Star Trek

5:52

season three when picard crashes on a planet

5:54

of Wesley and he's dying of thirst. Oh my god.

5:56

Is Catherine picard gonna die on his random

5:58

ass episode where he's delivering let's just start

6:00

with a guy. That shmuck bait. Yeah. Joker

6:03

fucking die. Uh-huh. You know?

6:05

So it's like, I I feel like it's it's it's kinda

6:07

damning it but saying it's, oh, it's a cliffhanger.

6:09

It's a cliffhanger. But Yeah. I

6:11

I can It sounds like you've come down.

6:14

It's on the same side with me just with the

6:16

way less words. Yeah.

6:18

Absolutely. I'm I'm with you there.

6:21

And yeah, that so much of this episode is so

6:23

good, and I'm excited to get to talking

6:26

about it. So why don't we get at the rehab? Let's

6:28

do it. Alright. We start off

6:31

seeing Henry kill himself again. That was not fun.

6:34

But three months later, now it's

6:36

winter. And Joel and Ellie hold

6:38

a couple of people at gunpoint and to man

6:40

to know where they are. And if they've

6:43

seen Tommy or the fireflies, they

6:45

haven't but they show them their location on the map,

6:47

warning them not to go west to the river of death.

6:50

But that's exactly where they've gotta go.

6:52

When they

6:52

leave, Joel has the beginnings of Panic Attack, but

6:55

it it subsides. Yeah.

6:59

I I but a big smile

7:01

on my face is seen, and I

7:03

loved it even more the the

7:05

the subsequent trips through to see Graham

7:08

Green and Aileen or Aileen Miles,

7:10

this, like, old elderly

7:12

couple, completely content with this lifestyle.

7:17

Have been living this lifestyle since

7:19

before Joel was born, which I don't know about that.

7:21

But

7:23

but yeah. For for a long time -- Right. -- that's

7:25

just him

7:25

saying, like, look, slipper snapper. And

7:28

just how on I don't know where they

7:30

they have the measure of

7:32

Joel and Ellie. I guess it's hard to put

7:34

a gun on someone when you've already

7:37

know that they've sat and had a bowl of soup with their

7:39

wife maybe and to take them seriously

7:41

as like a real Band Ito, but I

7:45

yeah. I I just I just love the way they played

7:47

this is, like, like, a little, like,

7:49

their old couple kind of amused that something

7:51

is happening in their life. More

7:53

than, oh my god, we're gonna die here.

7:55

Yeah. No. It's great. Their

7:57

interactions are a lot of fun. I I love

8:00

this all. Oh, I love both of their demeanor

8:02

here, but this old man just being like his

8:05

wife's like, ah, they didn't hurt me. He was like, I have

8:07

eyes. And then he

8:10

he asked Joe Joel asked, like, if you see my brother

8:12

and he's like, I don't no. I

8:14

haven't. Joel's like, haven't told you

8:16

what he looks like. Does he look like

8:17

you? Yeah. Well, I haven't seen him.

8:20

Yeah. haven't seen anyone. doesn't look like this woman

8:22

for thirty years kid. Uh-huh. And

8:25

this is like there's so much on when I was

8:27

seeing it for because, like, there's a lot

8:29

of crosstalk. And

8:31

I I there's a lot of, like, really subtle ironies,

8:34

like, when she says she they haven't hurt me,

8:36

by the way. It's like, I've got eyes. She's

8:38

like, trying if he if he was

8:40

a little bit more observant, he wouldn't have been surprised

8:42

to Joel holdin' her at gunpoint because she

8:44

was, like, telling her him with her eyes

8:46

that there's something over there he complete. So

8:49

that was really funny and then the whole did

8:51

you make him zuke, but she's like, yeah, it's

8:53

cold out. It's

8:55

it's really funny. And then when Bella

8:58

comes down -- Mhmm. -- Bella comes

9:00

down all three three parts

9:02

pissed, two parts vinegar. And,

9:05

you know, she's like using her mouth and

9:07

the gram green is like, holy like

9:10

Who's this little psycho? Yeah. Yeah.

9:12

It's so it's it's

9:14

so funny. And just, like, you know, like, you better

9:16

point this out on map and you better he's, like, looks

9:19

at his life like, did you tell him the

9:20

truth?

9:21

Are you telling me the truth? It's just this

9:23

show doesn't have any laughs. This is

9:26

some vaudville shit

9:27

here. Yeah. Usually, it's just Ellie

9:29

and it's it's nice to see some other

9:31

personality telling some jokes here.

9:34

Yeah. Other thing I noticed, like, right off

9:36

the right off the bat here is animals

9:39

apparently not affected by the court

9:42

steps. We've got rabbits that you can hunt

9:45

that are still out there, uninfected

9:47

seemingly. Do you think that's

9:49

because they typically run higher temperatures than

9:51

humans do? It's

9:54

a lot of things. Like, it's very rare

9:56

to see a parasite that

9:58

is adapted to parasite

10:00

more than, like, you know, like, they

10:02

they usually specialize. Like, it's not just, like,

10:05

it's not just like a fish. It's like

10:07

a a certain species of fish that's in

10:09

this location. It's this temperature range.

10:11

Mhmm. Because, you know, it's it's an arms

10:13

race, like, evading the lethal

10:16

environment that is the inside of a vertebrate

10:18

organism with their active

10:20

heat, you know, active immune system and whatnot

10:23

is is is tough. So it's usually if you

10:25

can do it once, it's not like something you just

10:27

do again and again again, or you evolved to a point where

10:29

you now you're dependent on this new praise species.

10:31

So, no, I I think it makes a lot of sense that

10:33

this cordyceps. Only

10:35

affects humans and would have

10:37

a hard time infecting even primates.

10:40

And I think that by the

10:42

monkeys are there for that. Right? Uh-huh.

10:45

You know, like, there's no cordycemonkeys. Maybe

10:48

we need to see, like, a court like, a gorilla to

10:50

make sure that there are a champagne your Bonobo.

10:52

Bonobo? I can't I I don't don't know how

10:54

those boys are pronounced. Those eights are pronounced.

10:57

But, like yeah. Like, this suggests to, like,

11:00

you can you know, it's it's pretty specific

11:02

to the species. How

11:04

about this panic attack that Joel's having? I

11:07

guess my question is, why

11:09

now? He

11:11

says, you know, it's the cold air. It's definitely

11:14

not the cold air. What

11:16

what do you think is going on with Joel here?

11:19

Why why is his panic attack

11:21

stuff manifesting now? He's

11:23

getting close.

11:26

He's getting close to someone like, you

11:28

know, there's this So

11:30

I've had panic attacks. And the first time I had one

11:32

is my late twenties. I was working at this very stressful

11:35

job and I was working like seventy five hour

11:37

weeks and it was coming up on Christmas

11:39

break and company, this consulting company,

11:41

I'll be shut down for a week between Chris. And

11:43

I was just, like, I said, I can just I can if I can just hold

11:45

on. If I can just fucking hold on to this break,

11:47

I'll be fine. And I was fine. I had

11:49

a great vacation. The night before

11:52

I had went back to work, I had my first ever

11:54

panic attack. And a lot

11:56

times this stuff had happens like

11:58

where you get

12:00

a chance to kind of chill for

12:03

a minute and your your

12:05

audience brain who has been this white knuckling existence,

12:08

finally says, fuck. Thank God, I can let go.

12:10

And then that's when the the the

12:13

the psychological the ramifications

12:15

of the psychological damage you've been taken appear.

12:17

So I think Joe has no choice,

12:19

but to keep going, it's him and Ellie, but

12:21

he's getting close to Tommy and

12:24

his body and mind are probably even precautiously

12:27

aware that, like, this is a chance that we can

12:29

let Ellie go. We can we can I I can

12:32

give her to someone that I trust and who's

12:34

not a nudge? Just I trust he's better than me. He's

12:36

he's just me only younger and stronger. And,

12:38

like, I I think that's why the panic effects are

12:40

happening. He's getting to that point where his body

12:42

and mind knows he can relax and

12:44

it doesn't have to sustain him

12:46

anymore, I think. Yeah.

12:48

Makes a lot of sense. I'd also

12:50

say he's failed her many

12:53

times at this

12:54

point, and those kinda stacked

12:56

up on him. Right? Got it.

12:58

Again, the first time he failed there, he is like, oh, that's

13:00

a fluke. You know? We'll be fine. And then the second

13:03

time it happens, Okay.

13:05

Well, that kid almost killed me. The

13:07

third time it's gonna happen here might

13:09

be a little more

13:10

severe. I think it's a possible

13:12

answer. I think the three months later of it

13:14

all suggests that they've had

13:16

a fairly uneventful --

13:18

Mhmm. -- last three months. So, like,

13:20

it's gotta be stacking with something else. Because

13:22

the game does that too. Like,

13:24

you you know, it's it's not like Elliott

13:26

Joel's cross country trip is beset

13:28

by perils all the time. It's -- Right.

13:30

-- in the game, you only join Ellie

13:32

and Joel before S01E06 about to happen.

13:35

Right? But you'll have months go by where

13:37

it's it's relatively peaceful and they just

13:39

have to do basic survival stuff. Stay warm,

13:41

stay dry, stay fed. So

13:44

like, yeah, it's it's definitely the

13:47

failures that he's experienced

13:49

thus far are feeding

13:51

into the And, you

13:53

know, like I said, his body mind white knuckling the

13:55

situation but For sure. Yeah.

13:58

Didn't feel like the the the subconsciously, the

14:00

pressure just might be letting off a little bit as

14:02

he's as he's getting. But he he also he has

14:04

no idea if he's found Tommy or

14:06

not. So, like, maybe not.

14:09

Yeah. I mean, he he's gotta know who he's

14:11

close though. Looking at those maps.

14:13

Right. And even even if subconsciously

14:16

doesn't know you can relax pretty soon. There's also, like,

14:18

it's not like your mind and body can white knuckle

14:20

existence forever. Like, are you, you

14:22

know, like, eventually,

14:24

you'll snap. Right? But I

14:27

just know that in my case, it seems like it's

14:29

well attested too that if you it's paradox

14:31

basically you have a period of kind of peace and

14:33

quiet that can bring on a panic attack

14:35

that you've been suppressing for long long

14:37

time. Now is the time to endure and survive?

14:40

We'll be back with more averaged starlight.

14:46

Just so we're clear about back there, it was

14:48

either us or the ad. Welcome

14:50

back to Moore, Savage Starlight. Alright.

14:53

Let's go to Allianz Joel

14:56

setting out to cross the river of death.

14:58

They camp for the night. Ellie

15:01

tried some booze again, I guess, which she

15:03

hates. Ellie asks what's next

15:05

for them after the fireflies make it cure for her

15:07

blood from her blood. Joe wants to live alone

15:09

on a sheep ranch. Ellie wants to go to the moon.

15:11

Ellie wonders if the fireflies will really be able

15:13

to create a cure, and Joel believes they

15:15

will because Marlene does. And then Joel decides

15:18

I'm gonna take both watches tonight. That's

15:21

the other thing that I bet has really

15:23

contributed to this is Joel is not getting any

15:25

sleep. I mean, if you look at, like, all

15:27

the scenes where they've been driving, all

15:29

the implied watches that he's probably

15:31

been taking because he refuses for

15:34

some reason to teach Ellie to do more

15:36

and to trust Ellie to do more. And, obviously,

15:39

I know what that reason is. He's scared for her.

15:41

But, like, Boy,

15:43

he is taking a lot on himself and depriving

15:45

himself of sleep and food. We've seen it time

15:47

and time again, like, he is physically

15:50

very rundown as well, and that does

15:52

not help.

15:53

Danny looks like I I feel like Pedro

15:56

starting to look little afraid at the end

15:58

here. You know, this shaggy haircut.

16:00

Boots, like his boots are useless.

16:02

Boots, a little bit more lines in his face.

16:06

Yeah. I I mean, III

16:08

love the sequence. I love the fire night chat.

16:10

I thought that the way they shot this

16:13

is is gorgeous. Them

16:15

just talking about their hopes and dreams. This

16:19

is something that Neil pointed out in official podcast

16:22

that as he grew closer to

16:24

characters of Joel and Ellie, and also

16:26

as he worked with Ashley Johnson and

16:30

god. No. Nolan North,

16:33

which is like Join me. Yeah. It's

16:35

not

16:35

him, the other guy.

16:36

Yeah. Right. The two big ones. Mhmm. You got

16:39

close to Troy Baker, he found that he kept

16:41

on giving Ellie and Joel

16:43

character beats that were

16:46

personal to the actors portraying them like Ashley

16:48

Johnson and is, like, an an unabashed space

16:50

enthusiast. So he started writing little

16:52

things about, like, Ellie has been come fascinated

16:54

in the postapocalypse about space. Troy

16:59

is, I guess, a accomplished guitarist

17:01

and singer. And so he's, like, oh, Joel,

17:03

that's when in the quiet moments, like, that got something

17:05

that he's always kinda fantasized about

17:08

and all given that. I thought that was really

17:10

cool that, you know,

17:12

each each of the people betraying Joel

17:14

has kinda like, give or, you know, the characters

17:16

in the last of us kind of, you

17:18

know, not just embody them, but but there's

17:21

like AA2 way flow to

17:23

that, which I thought was really cool. And the

17:25

line, you know you know, but

17:27

but you know who my favorite is, Sally Ride,

17:30

Sally fucking ride. It

17:32

is great astronaut name. She's right.

17:35

It is a great astronaut name, and

17:38

I just yeah. The fact that, of course,

17:40

Ellie would gravitate to the first female astronaut.

17:42

Mhmm. As

17:45

that I thought that was great. And the fact

17:47

that Joel, who

17:49

probably only knows one female astronaut's

17:51

name, Sure. Just

17:53

just just threw it out there. Sally for Sally

17:56

Ride. It's great.

17:57

Yeah. Oh, especially in two thousand three,

18:00

Yeah. Alright. You're gonna know a lot fewer

18:03

female astronaut names. Yeah.

18:06

No. I I like it and I like the reason they give for

18:09

Ellie you know, wanting to

18:11

go to the moon or space or whatever.

18:13

It's because she's been

18:15

trapped for so long. Right? This is like an the

18:17

idea of escape. Exploration,

18:21

that kind of thing. She's only been able

18:23

to look up for anything interesting.

18:26

Yeah. And I just agree. Yeah. Like, girl up to

18:28

QZ. You got you're there in Boston. You

18:30

got back to the ocean in front of you as a

18:32

wall. Where else do you look up as a

18:34

kid? But where else do you look

18:36

up as a kid, didn't up? Where

18:37

else do

18:38

you look up as a kid, didn't up? Where

18:40

else do you think? Because I think what

18:42

I was trying to say there. Yeah. Alright.

18:46

Joel,

18:47

do do you think that Joel's sheep dream is, like,

18:49

sincere? Was, like, he just Well,

18:52

this is his way of saying shut up and go to sleep

18:55

care.

18:55

Right. But also So maybe

18:57

yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

19:00

Because, like,

19:01

I don't know you guys. I just think he's the same guy. She

19:03

she branched too. True.

19:06

I got I got the opinion that, like, when

19:09

he's, like, to ranched, he had clear idea is like, yeah,

19:11

I wanna be there. But then he's kinda

19:13

like trying to find the, like, what this

19:15

rant should be doing. He's like, what kinda kind

19:17

of physical labor could a single guy handle?

19:20

A cat now. There's no fucking one. You know,

19:22

like a sheep. Yeah. There you go. Sheep chicken

19:24

adds. That's chicken hard enough. Rabbit's

19:26

now. Shit. That's where it's at. Yeah.

19:29

Well, he should go back to that shack

19:31

and pick up those two old goats. He could start his

19:33

ranch with them. Alright.

19:37

Let's move on to the

19:39

next part of this scene and a couple others.

19:42

Joel falls asleep again. So

19:44

apparently, Ellie took the second watch. Joel

19:47

and Ellie crossed the bridge over the river of death

19:49

with a lot of tense music, but completely

19:51

without incident. Ellie

19:53

tries to learn how to whistle. She wants to

19:55

be taught how to hunt. And

19:57

finally, they reach a hydro power

19:59

station. I guess we'll

20:01

stop there for a second. I didn't

20:03

get this in the first time I watched

20:05

it because I

20:08

mean, I don't I don't know. I just watched it the first time and

20:10

I didn't hear it, but, like, they they

20:12

do show that Joel is kinda

20:15

having these nightmares or suggesting that he's

20:17

having his uneasy sleep -- Mhmm. --

20:19

not getting much of it, but the the the little S01E06

20:21

he has is is fitful. I

20:24

thought that that was was great that, like, just watching

20:26

Pedro, do simple exercises like

20:28

a man that wakes up, doesn't realize where he's at, then

20:30

has sudden panic attack of where is and

20:32

what time it is and what could be happening

20:34

and, like, he's just really good at doing

20:37

all that stuff. And then he snaps awake

20:39

and then Ellie's standing there like a boss with the

20:41

rifle. You know, okay. Keeping watch just

20:43

like he taught me to. Uh-huh.

20:46

Yeah. She's very capable. know,

20:48

but Joel can't he

20:51

probably sees that. He just can't let himself

20:53

rely on it. Right? Because he's supposed to be protecting

20:56

her.

20:57

Yeah. And that's the other thing is, like,

21:00

Ellie is a little bit hurt that

21:02

he doesn't acknowledge her competency. Mhmm.

21:05

But And even, like, Joel's kinda,

21:08

like, you know, really, like, comes across really

21:10

grumpy. I interpret that as, like, Joel

21:12

is disappointed in Madden himself. Yep.

21:15

And he's not skilled enough to,

21:18

like, you know, keep that emotion from showing through

21:20

to the child he's with. So it's like, you know, and

21:23

she's, of course, interpreting that as, like, he's angry

21:25

with her that he's dis disobeyed again. But I think

21:27

it's really more

21:29

upset with himself for being, you know, weak

21:31

for needing to sleep. Yeah. And

21:33

of course, she can't see it for what

21:35

it is. Right? I mean, he's given her no insight

21:37

into himself, into what he's thinking or feeling.

21:40

So how could she think oh, this man

21:43

thinks he's failing me at every turn. So

21:45

much so that I love how they describe a layer in

21:47

the episode. He's failing in his sleep. He

21:49

doesn't remember specifics,

21:51

but he just wakes up with a sense of loss.

21:54

Yeah. And some of

21:56

that's probably tied up in Sarah, but a lot of that now is

21:58

tied up in the mission with Ellie. Yeah.

22:04

Because he already wasn't sleeping great before

22:07

the Ellie stuff. I think

22:09

he was haunted by the Sarah's stuff, and

22:11

now this is just stacking up on top of that.

22:13

Right? Yeah. For sure. For

22:15

sure. And this is exactly how

22:18

Henry got the drop on them. If Henry hadn't

22:20

been a friend, if Henry had been an enemy,

22:24

they can both be dead right now. But

22:27

because Joel keeps

22:30

failing, his his

22:32

whole goal here was to stay away through the night

22:34

and he

22:35

didn't. That's

22:38

rough. Yeah. Yeah. It's gotta

22:40

be it's it's man, it's it's gotta

22:42

be hard to put this many impossible standards

22:44

on yourself, but also what else are you gonna do?

22:46

Can you really and can you really trust

22:48

a fourteen year old? Of any

22:50

stripe to kind of keep watch. But then again,

22:53

you know, like, he can't he can't trust himself either.

22:56

Right. Right. And then

22:58

I mean, it's also like you you mentioned about how

23:00

closed off he was. That's what I Mhmm.

23:03

It's wild that three to four

23:05

months into their journey together. Think about all

23:08

the downtime, all the travel time,

23:10

all the long like, you know, all the time they could

23:12

have been talking and the way Ellie talks probably

23:14

a lot of that and Joel has never even told

23:16

her about his daughter. Yeah.

23:19

Like, she truly doesn't even know square

23:21

one to this. Sky. I think that's you

23:23

know, it's, like, to us, we've only been watching the show six

23:26

hours, but, you know, there's been a lot

23:28

of time pass. I thought that was a

23:30

great way for a show. This this this

23:32

this show did feel like the the the

23:35

the pivot, you know, like, where Joel

23:37

does finally come around and, like, all

23:40

of his secrets are laid bare and

23:42

he finally can kind of like be open and honest

23:45

with Ellie and vice versa. Like,

23:47

it's a huge change between how

23:49

they react at the end of the episode versus how they

23:51

react in the

23:52

beginning. Yeah. I wonder how their

23:54

conversations are gonna change in the future.

23:56

A result of this. As a result of the knowledge that

23:58

she now has about Sarah, the the

24:03

fear that he's made known to her, I think

24:05

through his actions this episode. Yeah.

24:09

I I'm curious to see what next episode

24:12

if Joel survives would look like for them.

24:17

Let's I got one

24:19

big question for you here that I

24:21

didn't understand. So they come to

24:23

the river of death and there's a bridge.

24:26

They take a shot. They

24:28

fire off around from Joel's

24:30

rifle to do something,

24:33

and I don't understand it because in my

24:35

mind, the last thing you wanna do

24:38

is announce your presence at this

24:40

junction. Yeah.

24:42

What are they trying to accomplish with that?

24:45

I think it's

24:48

they had not fully committed to crossing

24:50

the river of death. Mhmm. They're

24:53

still at the edge of a tree line on

24:55

the other side of the River Valley. And

24:57

Joel's thought process is if I take a

24:59

shot and there's, like, you know, in

25:02

a bunch of infected, I

25:04

can get a war if I take a shot and there's

25:06

like, you know, I draw a fire. I'm far

25:08

enough. They're probably not gonna be able to hit me,

25:10

because he doesn't know that Tommy's out there with his

25:12

fucking sub MOA right faithful. You

25:15

know what I'm saying? Like, III think that's

25:17

what it is. It it did strike me as

25:19

dumb. It did strike me as little dumb. Yeah.

25:22

I would I would if I felt like I had

25:25

to cross that bridge, I would just try and sneak

25:27

through unannounced -- Right.

25:29

-- announce my presence and then cross it

25:31

If anything, I would announce my presence, leave

25:34

the location and go cross somewhere else

25:36

if I knew there was another

25:37

crossing. But, like, is there also

25:39

the location that Joel doesn't quite

25:41

know that they crossed a river of death because, like,

25:43

I think that there was, like, in the scene deck

25:45

before they write up on him, like, Ellie, like,

25:47

do you think that was river death? And he, like, kind

25:49

of, like, concernedingly starts looking

25:51

at the map right before they ride up on him?

25:54

So maybe it's, like, he doesn't No.

25:56

Like, he he's he's kinda got because look,

25:59

I don't think Joel is a great orient

26:01

here. He's a parent.

26:03

Like like like, Brent

26:04

Brent said, how do you get lost if you have a

26:06

map? You know? He

26:09

so so I I don't think he's

26:10

great, and and he's clearly

26:12

crossed river death that meaning to. I think he

26:14

meant to go around

26:15

it. Uh-huh.

26:17

So maybe that's why the gunfire to

26:19

because he didn't know that there was, like, extreme

26:21

danger. Okay. Yeah.

26:23

There there have been a few things in the show that have puzzled

26:26

me like this, and that was one of them. So

26:28

just curious. Do

26:30

you know how hydro power stations work? Because

26:33

I don't.

26:35

And I know there's some kind of, like, magnetic induction

26:37

that there you go from water wheels smash.

26:39

Magnets if you move them over copper wire

26:41

and deuces electron

26:43

flow, and if you put a

26:45

paddle -- floor.

26:46

-- with with magnets around the axle

26:48

and you turn in and it's it's gonna the wire's

26:50

gonna turn it inside the magnets and

26:52

boom magical

26:53

ones. And you and you got the the copper

26:55

wire wound. I'd yeah. I I couldn't tell

26:57

you the science of it. But I know I couldn't

26:59

tell you the science of people in these things running too

27:02

in the apocalypse. No. No. What

27:05

like, this thing, the turbine eventually although

27:08

they do last forever, like, with the Hoover Dan's

27:10

been generating energy in power for, like, seventy

27:12

years now. But,

27:15

like, yeah, you gotta wonder, like, what happens

27:17

at the end of this thing's lifespan if

27:19

they have this huge community built and

27:22

and you know, like, what what does the fall of

27:24

Jackson look like?

27:25

Yeah. I hope people are reading up

27:28

doing experiments on alternative energy

27:30

sources because It's got it. Like, this seems

27:32

like a type of community that would

27:34

like, hey, we have to use these boom

27:36

times, why we still have power to prepare

27:38

for the times after when we're not going

27:41

to, if we want

27:42

to. But I

27:44

don't know. There seems they're more concerned about

27:46

bacon and whiskey, but I

27:48

would honestly love to see a three or four

27:50

season episode show

27:52

just set in light as Jackson, Wyoming

27:54

because I I've always felt like I've gotten

27:56

screwed out of, like, postapocalyptic zombie

27:58

living. Like, I really was hoping that the The Walking

28:01

Dead would get there, and and then they did

28:03

kinda. But, man, I just think it's

28:05

I think that this is really cool hook. Like,

28:07

since you could do any western, any frontier

28:09

town, except for now the zombies. Still

28:12

got raiders, you still got hostile people,

28:14

you still got innocent villagers, and townsfolk

28:17

needing help, and you also got zombies.

28:19

Like, it's

28:21

bonanza, only zombies. What

28:24

I why why can't that work? Why

28:27

can't we do why can't we

28:29

do a television series? I would love to see this.

28:31

Here here's an idea. Discover,

28:33

Call Me, or something. Let's

28:36

let's do so many people love these

28:39

survival crafting video games,

28:42

I wanna see a survival crafting

28:44

TV show where, like, they

28:46

set up an abandoned town full

28:49

of things that people can scavenge. They give,

28:51

like, twenty people plot

28:55

of land with maybe bit

28:57

of shelter on it or something to start. And

29:00

they say, create a functioning

29:02

society out of this. We're gonna give you four seasons,

29:04

five seasons, whatever. Five

29:06

five years to do it. What could they come

29:08

up with in five years? How far along

29:11

that progress tree? That tech tree could

29:13

they get given how much

29:14

time? Because

29:16

you got a little bit of big brother, you know,

29:18

all these disparate people working together, working

29:21

together, you've got a little bit of Yeah.

29:24

Because, Zachary's there isn't showing that GeoCloud

29:27

alone where I think they take twelve survivalists

29:29

each season and they drop them off on some remote

29:32

desert island or

29:34

Oh, there's a ton. Like, they could end up learning.

29:36

Right? There's, like, tons of those -- Yeah. -- shows. Yeah.

29:39

Yeah. But they're not focused around, like, rebuilding a

29:41

society to focus around, like, hunt

29:43

a rabbit and and skin it and use

29:45

it as boots or

29:46

something. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. What can we do

29:48

with, like, scavenge parts from a dead society

29:50

survive

29:51

for a week. Re rekindle society.

29:54

That would be their own.

29:55

I would watch it. Alright.

29:58

Get on it. Get on at disco back. Come on.

30:01

Yep. They come across another river

30:03

and Ellie wonders, oh, maybe that's the river

30:05

of death. And just then a bunch of people

30:07

on horsebacks around them. They

30:10

have what I'm gonna call

30:12

a truffle sniffing dog. Because I think it's

30:14

funny. Try to sniff out any infection

30:16

in him. Ellie somehow passes the test.

30:19

I don't ask me how. I guess the dog

30:21

just can't smell that well. Joe mentions

30:24

that he's looking for his brother, which prompts

30:26

one of people to ask his name. Why

30:29

can't the dog smell her infection?

30:32

Just not as sensitive as the sensors

30:35

that the QZ has? I

30:37

don't know, man. I because there's

30:39

two possibilities. One that the

30:42

dog is maybe more sensitive and that it can

30:44

detect an active infection versus a

30:46

latent infection. Okay. The

30:49

other thing that I The

30:52

other theory that I I think I came up with as an

30:54

instant take that I kinda like is that

30:59

Ellie's not act like if Ellie would be scammed by

31:01

Federscanner right now, she'd show up as not affected

31:04

because it's been many months since the last

31:06

bite, there are no active quarters settling.

31:08

We we don't really know of the body. Yeah. I mean, I'm

31:11

just I'm just speculating what what caused it to

31:13

fail. Is that yeah. Like,

31:15

it's it's possible that she just no longer is

31:17

even passively infected. Sure.

31:19

Like, her body is completely just gonna shut that

31:21

shit down and just art issue

31:23

now. So I I don't know. This

31:26

is a detail that was not into video games.

31:28

So yeah. No.

31:31

I I don't know if they need to spell

31:34

that out anymore. I think it's fine to

31:36

to just leave some of that

31:37

ambiguous. But Well, the other

31:39

thing is

31:42

the other thing is, like, I guess, there's

31:45

this idea that there's

31:47

you know, like, with a COVID test, like lot times

31:49

COVID test for antibodies, which is the,

31:51

you know, like, the evidence that you used to have

31:53

an infection, not that you're currently

31:55

infected. Right? And and

31:58

the dogs might essentially or

32:01

the the the the scanners might detect those antibodies

32:03

that said that you have been in fact or you were

32:06

infected versus the dog only

32:08

cares about whether you are

32:09

infected. I don't know. Yes.

32:12

But I'm not sure

32:14

I'm not sure if it'll if if it'll if it'll

32:16

if it'll play into the the season later on

32:18

these breadcrumbs, we'll have to see

32:21

Dallasy. So

32:23

they all ride back to the gated town

32:25

of Jackson where Joel is

32:27

reunited with Tommy. Here

32:30

we go. I'm excited to see this. I

32:33

I'm excited to see Tommy's still working construction.

32:35

He's doing what he does best. Contractor.

32:40

It was a goddamn contractor. This

32:45

is such a good scene. There it's all, like,

32:48

really to subtle work here with just

32:50

looks and stuff, but there's so much going

32:52

on in this scene beyond just the

32:55

joy of being reunited with the the

32:57

two brothers being reunited. There's -- Mhmm.

32:59

-- a lot of tension in that moment,

33:01

especially if you look over at Ellie, and

33:04

Tommy and Joel reunited

33:06

is a little bit threatening

33:09

to her. It's a little bit scary

33:11

for

33:11

her, and you can see it on her face at the very end

33:13

of this scene. And Ellie

33:15

picks up on it, which is why she doesn't.

33:17

I I think that's one of the barriers that kinda she

33:19

hasn't really take take a shine to Maria

33:22

the same way she take a little bit of shine to --

33:24

Mhmm. -- test is

33:26

that she realizes that she hasn't liked

33:28

Joel. She sees Joel as a threat. Oh

33:31

oh, and I'm I'm talking about it even even for

33:33

Ellie. Like, this is a bit of a

33:34

threat. Right? Because Joel

33:37

has been hurt. Oh, you're talking to me all the time.

33:39

Okay. thought time about Maria here. Okay.

33:41

Oh, wow. I didn't see that she I mean, that's that's

33:43

a possibility that the that she's clocking

33:46

here.

33:46

Yeah. Like, this could be the end of the road.

33:49

For her and Joel. Or

33:51

or maybe the she sees the other possibility

33:54

here is she sees that Joel is not as

33:56

emotionally shut off completely

33:59

from everyone. Maybe she

34:01

thinks it's just her. Maybe

34:04

seeing this affection obviously between

34:06

brothers is

34:07

like, maybe there's a little

34:09

bit of envy there. Oh,

34:11

and also just seeing another side. I mean, I always

34:13

thought it was fun when my dad would hang out with his brother.

34:16

Because, like, you get to see a side of, like,

34:18

you did Right. You you you never

34:21

even get to really see a hint of your father,

34:23

at least mine mine anyway.

34:25

Yeah. So I thought that was kinda because III

34:28

think this scene is pretty heartwarming for

34:30

what it is. Like, the

34:32

obvious delight the brothers have and hugging each other,

34:34

the ridiculousness of what the fuck you doing here.

34:36

I came, you know, Tommy's like hanging

34:39

a Christmas tree and shit. Angeles,

34:41

like, I came here to save you. It's

34:45

it's it's just Yeah. It's just that they laugh because

34:47

it's so fucking hilarious. Like, he's thinking that,

34:49

you know, he's out here at raiders or worse,

34:51

and he's wrapping Christmas presents and

34:53

stringing the

34:54

tree. Like, it's it's just patently absurd.

34:57

And and there's this this issue that's hanging

34:59

in the air that, you know, when you see

35:01

the conditions that Tommy's living in and they're

35:03

great. Fantastic. And

35:06

you think, why did Joel get into this? Well,

35:08

he got into this whole thing because he

35:10

thought his brother was in danger. And

35:13

the overriding emotion here is relief

35:16

and joy. Right? Seeing Tommy again.

35:18

And Joel's not thinking about Boy,

35:22

what a what a fucked up thing this

35:24

is that I traveled across the entire

35:26

country and here's my brother

35:28

just living the life of luck compared to me.

35:32

It'll come back and and we'll see

35:34

him, you know, really start to

35:36

feel that later in the episode. But right

35:38

now, It's there for us as

35:40

an audience, and we see it. But

35:42

Joel's ignoring it because of how happy

35:44

it is to be reunited.

35:48

I those are the there's couple things that

35:50

I wanna talk about. This like,

35:52

when they're riding up to the gates, one of the

35:54

riders is return flying a

35:56

red handker Schiff. They clearly got some kind

35:58

of signal system. So, like, you

36:01

know, if they weren't flying any flag, maybe that's

36:03

a sign that there's hostile or

36:05

if they got a red flag, they got strangers, so make

36:07

sure there's armed security. I I like that,

36:09

but, like, I I thought

36:11

sure that they would have Joel and Ellie on

36:13

the back their horses. But Joel and

36:15

Ellie actually have horses implying

36:18

that they just bring spare horses in

36:20

case they round up strangers or

36:23

Yeah. I

36:24

didn't rewind or did they did they

36:26

lose people on this ride, you know,

36:28

blame me. Yeah. And and and left them back

36:30

there. Will come get you into two towers where they're

36:33

right here and we're like, yeah. Yeah. We had had these

36:35

two guys die. I hope their horses carry

36:37

you better than than they

36:38

did. Or it's an always sunny.

36:40

I'll come back back for you, you know. Yeah.

36:44

I I was looking to see as the scene was

36:46

playing out if there were two other

36:48

people on the backs of horses. But

36:50

I don't know why they wouldn't do them. Right?

36:52

First of all, it's it's not

36:55

easy to ride a horse at full gallop.

36:58

Sure. I don't think so anyway. I

37:01

think it's wild that you put a fourteen or a girl.

37:03

It's probably never seen a horse in her life.

37:05

The back of this horse and just, like, hang on. You

37:07

know? And she's, like, ride a neck like with the back

37:09

straight and her I don't know. I just yeah.

37:11

Like, it seems crazy that you would double

37:13

up your own people so the newcomers gonna

37:16

have their own horse when the newcomers might even I

37:18

hope know how to fucking

37:19

ride. Mhmm. Yeah.

37:20

With you. That was that was a little pricing

37:22

to see Joel on his own horse. Just

37:25

have emergency spare horses. Just pull

37:27

it out of your side with saddlebags and

37:28

boom. Yeah. If

37:30

you can, you might as well. Alright.

37:33

Ellie and Joel eat. And then Ellie

37:35

yells at someone who's staring at her. We

37:37

find out that Jackson has been leaving bodies

37:39

of, I don't know, bad people,

37:42

I guess, around for others to find to

37:44

build a reputation as a place you wanna stay

37:46

away from him. also tells

37:48

Joel that Maria is his wife

37:50

now. And

37:52

boy, to

37:54

she she gets a dirty look from Joel.

37:57

Joel's not into this.

37:59

Yeah. Joel played finding

38:01

out about Tommy getting married the same way he played

38:03

Henry holding the gun to him. Yeah.

38:05

Everything's gonna be

38:06

fine. I'm relaxed. It's

38:09

yeah. That's pretty much his demeanor

38:12

for, like, the next twenty minutes of this

38:14

episode.

38:15

Yeah. And this the the

38:17

their their odd couple routine here

38:19

where Joel's is being aggressively polite,

38:21

you know? Like, he's using all of the proper

38:24

proper mamming mamming Maria

38:28

every chance he gets. And Ellie

38:30

is, like, literally, the bad the the,

38:32

you know, the bad girl, your mom and dad

38:34

wore you about. She's got pack of cigarettes

38:36

rolled up in her sleeve. She's got tattoos

38:39

and an eye patch and a facial scar.

38:41

I'd be like, oh, wait wait till I a couple days

38:43

with your goody two shoe kids watching Richard

38:45

Dreyfus movies and their comfort with their

38:47

popcorn. I'm gonna teach them to fucking

38:50

swear, dream. Make, you know. It's

38:52

just so funny the contrast between them.

38:55

Yeah. It's great. We

38:59

get to find out Or I

39:01

I really wanted to know at this point why Tommy

39:03

didn't get back to Joe on the radio. It was like the primary

39:05

thing in my mind. Right? I I see what's

39:07

going on here. And I'm like, why didn't radio

39:09

him, and we'll find out here in a bit. But

39:14

Tommy is looking across the table

39:16

at Ellie for half of this scene. Mhmm.

39:19

And not because Ellie is the one speaking, but because

39:21

I think he's trying to assess

39:23

the relationship here. You know, he's thinking about

39:25

Sarah too. Yes. And he sees

39:27

this young girl with Joel,

39:30

and he's like he's probably

39:32

like, how has my brother changed in

39:35

these last few years or

39:37

whenever Tommy left. Because

39:40

he's now showing up with someone that

39:43

would be very strange

39:46

for Joel to having his company,

39:48

given everything he's been through. Yeah.

39:51

I it's like it's also gotta be seen, like, going

39:53

through time machine. Like, you haven't seen your brother

39:55

and God knows how long and he shows

39:57

up and it's like twenty years flat. You know, he's

39:59

got a a girl exactly the same age as

40:01

Sarah was when she died. Mhmm.

40:04

Clearly, it's not like Tommy's forgotten that.

40:06

I mean, he's got a whole shrine to Sarah. Yeah.

40:09

And and then we find out in the episode, that

40:11

was his idea. wasn't like -- Yeah.

40:13

-- Maria is like, oh, I missed my kids. 0II

40:16

kinda had a kid too. It was it was

40:18

his idea from the jump. So

40:20

yeah. I I could see it staring. Yeah.

40:23

Totally. Alright.

40:25

Let's move over to Tommy

40:27

and Maria giving Joel and Elliot a tour of the

40:29

community. They have plenty amenities

40:32

including power from the hydro station.

40:34

It's a commune and their communists.

40:37

Joel and Ali get to get a house to stay in.

40:41

Yeah. There's it's the town

40:43

tour. I really enjoyed this. Yeah.

40:47

The I answered a lot of questions when I watched

40:49

it a second time because I was kinda raised my eyebrows,

40:51

you know. I I mentioned, like, how do you take, like,

40:53

you know, you gotta six people and then you

40:56

go to three hundred people and you get the

40:58

damn going. Like, there's so many things that go

41:00

wrong. They mentioned that, like,

41:02

this was a gated community already. So

41:04

it's like, you know, a lot of the heavy lifting was

41:06

done and that instant protection from her. So it's like

41:08

they kind of found their own abandoned Alexandria from

41:11

The Walking Dead and they had a jump start

41:13

and all that. So I'd already put up the cold rolled steel

41:15

walls and -- Yeah. -- and they just

41:17

had the kind of like, you know, I mean, again, I

41:20

I can't undersell the an

41:22

enormous undertaking it must have been to get

41:24

the hydro dams working. Sure.

41:28

And that's a detail that they have in game.

41:30

Like, in the game, you never

41:32

go to Jackson in the last of us part

41:34

one. You are you

41:37

you you find Tommy at the dam and they're currently

41:39

were like, that's the project they're doing is trying to

41:41

resurrect this thing. They've got a couple college people

41:44

college degree and an engineer too, and

41:46

they've been this has been this has been, like, their Manhattan

41:49

project, and they're on the cusp of getting

41:51

it turned over.

41:53

Yeah. I was kind of expecting an action scene

41:55

in this episode because of that

41:58

portion of the

41:58

game. But That's the thing. It's

42:00

like every chapter in the game

42:03

is gonna have a big action scene. And they mentioned

42:05

on the podcast that, like, they worry about

42:07

audience fatigue that, like, you can, you know,

42:09

if the violence in action because someone said

42:12

this on the podcast. The instant

42:14

the instant talk. It's like I, you know,

42:16

it's a great episode, but I still wish they could throw a

42:18

clicker or n in fact something just to kinda

42:20

keep that pulse going. And I think their

42:24

instincts as show runners as good that

42:27

instead of doing that, they're like and

42:30

and and worrying about the

42:32

in fact, attacks no longer been shocking or

42:34

frightening or whatever. It's

42:36

like, you know, have a couple episodes where we don't

42:38

see any danger so

42:41

that -- Mhmm. -- when it does

42:43

happen, it still has that fresh impact. You

42:45

don't want people to come desensitized to it.

42:47

Because, yeah, for sure, that happens in

42:49

the Walking Dead, your eleven seasons in and,

42:52

you know, you just it's it's dumb when

42:54

people die to single zombies or even like

42:56

a small group. It's like, why would they? Yeah.

42:59

We're here. It's it's a lot

43:01

scarier.

43:02

Yeah. I mean, the The Walking Dead felt

43:04

like it was primarily a zombie

43:06

show, and so they felt they needed

43:09

to get a zombie in every single week.

43:11

And they'd fail if they didn't. This is not

43:14

primarily show

43:16

about the infected. Right.

43:20

There's a couple of good looks

43:23

and lines here in this scene

43:26

as we're touring the town. Joel

43:28

kinda asks, you know, how to keep this place safe

43:31

or secret or whatever, and and Maria says

43:33

something about well, partially, we stay

43:35

off the radio. And

43:37

Tommy gives this guilty look. Oh,

43:40

really, he kinda looks back sheepishly at

43:43

Joel. And Joel kinda, like,

43:45

mhmm, we're gonna talk about this.

43:49

Fuck. So so yeah. I mean, staying off

43:51

the radio. Yeah. Now

43:53

now it's starting to kick in. Right? Like, oh,

43:55

yeah. I'm here for I'm here because

43:57

of a thing and we need

44:00

to resolve this because it is not what I

44:02

expected. There's another

44:04

part of this scene at the very end where

44:08

I get the the feeling that Joel feels

44:10

kind of inferior to his brother. And may

44:12

maybe all

44:14

of these crazy

44:16

ideas Tommy has had about the

44:18

ways to live his life. Right? Going off and and

44:20

joining the military and then leaving the military

44:22

and joining the fireflies. Leaving the fireflies.

44:26

I think Joel is kind of surprised

44:29

and a little dismayed that

44:32

Tommy has somehow landed in

44:34

this very nice life that

44:36

he has not been able to find. And

44:38

maybe a little resentful because he feels like

44:40

he's given him that opportunity. And

44:43

not had it for himself. Because at the end

44:45

of this, like, Ellie,

44:47

when they mentioned, oh, yeah, we've got these houses

44:49

over here that you can stay in, and Ellie's like, god be

44:51

better than the Shittles, we've been saying, and Joel's, like,

44:53

we've been doing fine. Like, staring

44:56

daggers at her. I

44:59

get the feeling that he's, like, angry. Almost

45:03

angry at Tommy or resentful

45:05

of Tommy for finding this better life.

45:09

Yeah. I definitely think there's that. I think there's

45:11

also an element of, you

45:14

know, Joel is admitting to his weaknesses

45:17

in this episode and like but

45:19

maybe he thinks that he's done

45:22

pretty good. Like, maybe Ellie doesn't understand

45:24

that, like, he's but, like, when Ellie is, like, oh, yeah. We've

45:26

had a really rough go of

45:27

it. That kind of, like, triggers

45:29

his his failures. One thing for him to beat

45:31

himself up to someone else to be like, oh, yeah. You kinda

45:33

fuck up from here, and and we haven't we

45:36

haven't doing so well in their ass.

45:38

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

45:41

He realizes she's right. Then

45:45

we're gonna go to another real good scene here

45:47

where Joel and Tom you go to the town bar to catch

45:49

up. Tommy asks about the kid.

45:51

Joel says he was paid to take her to the fireflies

45:54

and asks where they are. Apparently,

45:56

they have a base over the University of Eastern

45:58

Colorado, which is about

46:00

a week's ride south. He asked Tommy

46:02

to come with him, but Tommy turns him down, and

46:04

it leads to a discussion about the things they had to

46:06

do to survive, why Tommy didn't

46:08

radio him back. Apparently, it's

46:10

because he's gonna be father and he doesn't want the

46:13

wrong people find a place, which boy,

46:15

that that kind of sets Joel off. He gets offended.

46:17

He says, Bob, fine. I'm leaving in the

46:19

morning. We'll be out of your hair. But

46:22

Joel's Joel's looking for

46:24

a way to he's looking for a thing

46:26

to take offense because he is just

46:29

dealing like they're nothing Tommy's not saying

46:31

anything wrong that, like, I'm

46:33

gonna be a father. I gotta be more careful like

46:35

Joel in normal circumstances. I'm sure he'd be happy

46:37

for him, but he is, you know,

46:39

the fact that Tommy is gonna get a shot at the

46:42

life that was taken from

46:44

Joel. The fact that

46:46

Joel has gone through hell in three

46:48

months worried for that his brother and his brother is

46:50

sat up here and he'll the lap of fucking luxury.

46:54

Like Joel is doing as as as good as

46:56

he can not to like put hands on Tommy

46:58

and probably throttle him. Right? Yeah.

47:02

But, you know, I I guess we'll will

47:04

find out that was they

47:07

they mentioned this podcast, like, that's the best that

47:09

Joel can do. You know? Like

47:11

Joel had in his present state of

47:13

emotional cost the patient and closed offness

47:15

like just not being a complete asshole

47:18

is a struggle for him, but he managed

47:20

to do it. But Tommy interprets that as hurt,

47:23

and he knee you know, needles him

47:25

back, you know. Just goes, like, stop. If he doesn't

47:27

mean he has stop. Now Joel's pissed and he can go

47:29

he can get the fuck out of

47:30

there. Yeah.

47:33

It's so apparent. Even from early on

47:35

in this scene, like, the Joel is

47:38

trying to appear stronger than he is.

47:42

And it's down to when Tommy

47:44

asked about tests, like, how's tests?

47:46

And Joe's like, oh, she's good. She's fine.

47:49

Test is dead. Like, we know

47:51

that's not true. It

47:53

just shows, yeah, he's I

47:55

I don't know if he's not willing to admit this

47:58

his life has been, I

48:01

guess, less than his brother's at this

48:03

point because he's been stuck in this

48:05

past. Right? Or

48:07

if he's just been unfortunate and he's ashamed

48:10

of that somehow. But I

48:12

I don't know. I

48:13

Yeah. Joe's complicated and I I like it.

48:16

That's

48:16

the thing like Joel and Tess met a long, long

48:18

time ago. They could have had the life of Tommy's

48:20

guy. I mean, it would have been quite

48:23

do you find a Jackson? Yeah. That's what I'm thinking.

48:25

Like, how do you find Jackson? But he could have

48:27

found AAA happy note. He had

48:29

a more happy state right there

48:31

in his own two arms. When him and tests

48:33

were together, and he kept them from becoming

48:36

more than what they were -- True. -- and

48:38

that's kinda probably gotta rank along them

48:40

too. That, like, you know, Yeah.

48:44

Tom Tomy is able to surpass him.

48:47

Tomy is able to do things that he can't

48:48

do. He he's able to move on in ways that Joel

48:50

De Joel Canton. I think he's he's resentful

48:53

of, like, the freedom that Tommy's had. Right?

48:55

As as somebody who never

48:58

had a kid, and then didn't

49:00

lose a kid specifically, more

49:02

importantly. He's not

49:05

had the challenges in his

49:07

life, I guess, that Joel's faced. And,

49:09

you know, Joel's always there's always that little baby brother

49:11

thing, like, oh, you don't even fucking know. But but

49:13

also the fact that, like, I think Joel thinks

49:15

if their positions were flipped at the very minimum, he

49:17

would've gotten word out. Yeah. I'm not supposed to

49:19

use a radio. Yeah. I'm not supposed to do

49:21

that. Yeah. I'm not supposed to do that. But I would have

49:23

found the way god damn it. And the fact

49:26

that you didn't makes me almost think

49:28

that you weren't even thinking of me because if you were thinking of me

49:30

at all, you would have found the way. Yeah.

49:32

Like, you not only did you move on and you got

49:34

this new life that you have left me behind,

49:38

Yeah. He could have traveled a a state away.

49:40

Right? He could have gone to the east to

49:42

Colorado University and sent

49:44

a message out from there if he really wanted

49:47

to. Right. There's so many things in,

49:49

like, the the the the bottom line

49:51

is, from Tommy's point of view, didn't think

49:53

he'd ever see Joel again. And

49:55

that Joel would always wonder what the fuck happened

49:57

to my brother. And Tommy didn't really care.

49:59

Wow. Or that's yeah. That's fucked up. Right?

50:02

I think I think that's what the subtext

50:04

of the the scene is that, you know,

50:06

I you dropped off the map

50:08

and I crossed a whole fucking country to make

50:10

sure you're

50:11

okay. And you just you

50:13

did that to me without even thinking.

50:17

And it manifests as him being real asshole,

50:19

you know, when Tommy's like, I feel like I'd be good

50:21

dad and he's genuinely

50:23

excited about this, and then Joel

50:25

just shits on it. Right? I don't know, I guess

50:27

we'll find out. And I don't think Tommy's thinking

50:29

of all these implications either. True.

50:32

Yeah. Because I think you're right. And

50:35

and he's kind of losing sight of the thing

50:37

that is Joel's primary motivator, which is

50:39

the loss of Sarah. In this moment

50:41

in favor of his own new

50:43

child child that he's about to have. And, like,

50:47

you know, that Joel thought he would have

50:49

this life. Joel wanted this life for

50:52

himself and he didn't get it.

50:54

And now seeing Tommy starting

50:56

to get it is

50:58

is bring stirring up a lot of emotions in him.

51:01

God, it's not fair. Yeah. It

51:03

doesn't certainly doesn't seem fair. Yeah.

51:08

And I think I talked about this in the instant take a little

51:10

bit, but, like, in Joel's worldview, all

51:12

you have to live for is protecting your

51:14

family. Right? And now

51:17

his family doesn't need any protection. His

51:19

family's good. They're set up. He thought

51:21

he had this mission. He thought his brother was in

51:23

trouble. Well, I gotta go protect him. That's what

51:25

I'm living for now. He

51:27

doesn't have tests. He doesn't have Sarah,

51:30

he doesn't have Tommy.

51:31

That's kinda it for him. And this

51:34

is also what goes back to die

51:36

dichotomy of Tommy being a joiner

51:39

and Joel being a keep to

51:41

yourself type of guy. Like, Tommy is the one who wants

51:43

to pull over and help the family. Joel wants to

51:45

preserve the family. Tommy

51:47

wants to join the army, go halfway

51:50

around the world spread democracy, save the world.

51:52

Joel thinks that's stupid. Tommy

51:54

has completely joined with

51:56

his whole heart and mind and not look back.

51:59

And Joel knows he would never do that in

52:02

in in Tommy's place. So

52:04

like I said, I think it's a it's

52:06

a definitely a stuff that you have to surmise.

52:10

Like, this isn't like, you know, they don't talk

52:12

about their feelings in that direct away, but I

52:14

think it's all there and it's all stuff that's

52:16

compiled from previous episodes. All those times

52:18

of people complaining about, we're not any I mean,

52:21

half of the stuff we're talking about happened in the Bill

52:23

episode that everyone

52:24

said, no, you know. Uh-huh. Joel

52:26

and Elliot didn't get any character development. He's

52:28

gonna say, Joel, he's a Frank. That's what

52:30

he needs.

52:31

Those those seeds have matured and grown

52:33

and ready to be ready to be harvested.

52:35

Mhmm. Yeah, that's great. Alright.

52:38

We're outside the bar. Joel starts having another

52:40

panic attack, but it doesn't last law because he's distracted

52:43

by someone that reminds him of Sarah. Of course,

52:45

it's not her. I

52:47

think as a panic attack because he sees

52:49

a Christmas tree, he hears people singing Christmas

52:53

carols, and he realizes only seven day

52:55

shopping days left until Christmas, and he

52:57

hasn't gotten anyone a gift. Suddenly,

52:59

all all the Preak

53:01

Apocalypse holiday stress comes flooding

53:04

back and what is he gonna

53:05

do? Is the Walmart even still open? Oh my

53:07

god. He's he's here in tickle me

53:09

Elmo in his ear.

53:10

He's seeing furbies flashing my god.

53:13

Where do I even get a photo of you in the apocalypse?

53:15

Oh my god. You

53:17

know what? Also, we talked about how much we would

53:19

like to get Christmas episode of this show.

53:21

We got a fucking Christmas episode of this

53:24

show. You're right? Ever

53:26

ever it's like it's like it's right out of Whoville.

53:28

You got the whole community holding

53:29

hands, singing, singing song, around the Christmas

53:31

tree. It's fully decorated. Mhmm.

53:35

Actually, you're you're you're making

53:37

a joke about this, but think it is partially the

53:39

Christmas tree the triggers

53:40

him. Because if you see later in

53:42

the episode, he has flashbacks to a Christmas

53:45

with Sarah. Because how can you not? Like,

53:47

you know, it's like, that that

53:49

Sarah died right at the a like like, exiting

53:51

the apex of Christmas as a parent.

53:54

Like, Christmas is so fun. From

53:56

the moment your your your kid is born up until

53:59

they started just asking for cash and envelopes.

54:02

Oh. Then it becomes inventing new ways to keep

54:04

it kind of family friend lion fun. I

54:06

will watch die hard instead of Rudolph and

54:09

all that kind of stuff. But, like, yeah, like,

54:11

if if, you know, how how could he

54:13

not think about the Christmas

54:15

times

54:16

in this this situation. That's a

54:18

that's a really good connection. Alright.

54:22

Ellie showers and finds new clothes

54:24

left out for her as well as a diva cup,

54:26

which, oh, we gotta talk about this. She walks

54:28

across the street and lets herself into Baria's empty

54:30

house where she finds memorial to some dead kids.

54:34

Maria Returns, gives her a coat and a

54:36

haircut. During the haircut, she let's

54:38

slip the one of those dead kids with actually Joel's

54:40

daughter. Sarah. Maria

54:42

Shitchock shit talks Joel and Ellie

54:45

kind of defends him, and

54:47

then Maria warns Ellie to be careful who she

54:50

trusts. And decides we're going to the

54:51

movies. Alright.

54:54

What do you know about diva cups, Aaron? Because

54:58

I did a little research. No no no no no

55:00

no poke outs that use them. I tell you what, if I

55:02

was vagina

55:03

haver, I would be a hundred percent

55:05

team, diva cup. It

55:07

seems cheaper for one. It's cheaper.

55:09

It's less like, you know, if you're comfortable

55:11

with sticking your fingers inside yourself, and

55:13

I'd like think I'd be the type of person that would

55:15

be. Mhmm. Then it's like it seems

55:18

like it's the ultimate solution. It's just like

55:20

piece of silicone or

55:22

maybe latex. It's flexible. It's

55:24

designed to go way up inside

55:26

and like essentially hug the cervix so that all

55:28

the material that comes out during the menstruation

55:30

cycle gets collected in that cup.

55:32

And then periodically through the day, you reach up there,

55:34

you dump it out into the toilet, you rinse

55:36

it out, you put it back in, and then you're good to go

55:39

until the next time. I

55:41

would be sterilizing likely, sterilize

55:43

leaking. Super yeah. Well,

55:45

I mean, I guess, like, the

55:46

first time yeah. The first

55:48

time or two, you'd use it, but it's, like,

55:51

maybe, but, like, yeah. I don't I don't know.

55:53

I imagine women are laughing their asses off

55:55

at that statement. But but maybe maybe --

55:57

Sure. -- there's a

55:58

there's a There's a chance of leakage

56:00

if you don't apply it properly. This

56:03

is not the research I did. I was talking

56:05

about researching the company.

56:08

The divot company. Because

56:12

in our chat, I saw during our instant take,

56:14

people were chatting and being like, yeah, there's

56:16

no way that this was a thing in

56:18

two thousand three. And I'm

56:20

thinking about it. I definitely hadn't heard

56:22

about it in two thousand three. Right.

56:25

Apparently, Specifically, this

56:27

brand, Diva Cup, was started in

56:29

two thousand three. Started in two

56:31

thousand

56:31

three. So this is like a first run in

56:34

mister cups. Because I know that these

56:36

mister cups have been around since I think the late

56:38

seventies or early eighties, but like

56:40

the is like kinda like they're the Kleenex of

56:44

Right. Right. Of feminine hygiene

56:46

cups. Like, they're they're just the in fact,

56:48

I didn't I mentioned diva cups on

56:50

file. I did not know that this was an actual diva

56:52

cup. I, you know, didn't freeze frame and all that stuff.

56:54

I just said it on the instructions.

56:56

Yeah. So this is like yeah. This is this is

56:58

the Kleenex of menstrual cups. And

57:02

people who are worried about the shelf life of tampons

57:04

should I guess rightfully be worried about the shelf

57:07

life of the silicone

57:08

item. They say ten years.

57:11

Is it ten years? I imagine you talk let's

57:13

stretch that. It's like daily wear contacts, you

57:15

know, like S01E06 people, totally. It

57:18

always freaks me out, but, like, you know, people aware

57:20

the daily wears for, like, a month at a time,

57:22

you know, so they can stretch the month, you know. But

57:24

I yeah. I imagine Yeah.

57:27

Why why would a silicone

57:29

cup go bad? Like, unless it got

57:31

brittle or it got a tear in

57:33

it, Like, it's infinitely

57:36

reusable.

57:37

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And

57:40

it's a pretty Like, it's not like it's a rough. It's

57:42

not like your drag it through the desert that's getting

57:44

tearing. I mean No. It it

57:46

degrades. I mean, silicone degrades over time,

57:48

but Yeah. Yeah. Not that quickly. So

57:51

Yeah.

57:51

IIII I've been inside its active

57:53

environment. It doesn't seem a particularly hostile

57:55

place, you know. It doesn't seem like there's a lot

57:57

of warrants and thistles and fire

57:59

breathing

57:59

dragon, centipeds, that kind of stuff. Maybe

58:02

--

58:02

Mhmm. -- you'd think so, but no, it's actually

58:05

kinda nice. Watch out for that fungus.

58:07

We write back with more savage starlight.

58:13

We found something to fight for. This

58:15

podcast, welcome back to Savage Starlight.

58:20

Let me pivot over to this

58:23

memorial setup. So

58:26

we find out oh, okay. Sarah, we know

58:28

it was fourteen. This kid

58:30

named Kevin was three. Is

58:33

this Tommy's kid?

58:36

Or is this just Maria's

58:38

kid? I think Maria said something the dialogue

58:41

that that was hers. So she just had the

58:43

one. It makes a lot more

58:44

sense. Because I did not think it had been three

58:46

years since Tommy left. Let

58:48

alone the almost four

58:50

it would take for the kid to be three. So Okay.

58:54

That makes sense. Then

58:56

we go over to town watching a movie in

58:58

the

58:58

theater. Ellie

59:01

sees Tommy leave. Oh, wait. Can we

59:03

talk about we we just talk about the diva

59:05

cup for all the I wanna talk about

59:07

the scene with rittina

59:09

Wesley and and Ellie, agree

59:12

and Ellie. I thought that was really

59:14

great because it's something that we don't see in the video

59:16

game. And video game, we stay with Joel's perspective.

59:18

Ellie goes off Maria. And

59:21

when she comes back, she's clearly

59:24

pumped Maria for information because she now she's

59:26

discovered Joel's daughter, and she's got all this

59:28

more info. But, like, seeing it from Ellie's

59:30

perspective and that, you know,

59:32

that hostility the Maria has towards Joel

59:35

not just because he's a murderer, but

59:37

because Tommy is a joiner.

59:39

And traditionally, the person he's joined with

59:42

most often is Joel.

59:45

And she's got a good thing and, like, she's

59:47

really worried about Tommy

59:50

running off on some damn fool, Idyllistic

59:52

crusade, which he does. Like, these are

59:54

all valid fears. And Craig

59:56

and Neil talked about how in their mind,

59:59

they intended to film this as a fight.

1:00:01

You know, like, this is an action sequence and dialogue.

1:00:04

This is two people spar trying to get the best of

1:00:06

each other. Okay. One

1:00:08

that's a lot better than at it than,

1:00:10

you know, We

1:00:12

also mentioned that the timeline about

1:00:16

Maria, who

1:00:18

was an assistant district attorney, and

1:00:21

it was twenty years ago and she's gotta be so,

1:00:23

Regina Wesley in real life is forty four.

1:00:26

I did some research and if you're a county

1:00:28

assistant district attorney, you

1:00:31

can be hired right out of law school. So

1:00:34

it's conceivable that as a twenty

1:00:36

four, twenty five year old, she could have

1:00:38

just started her job job as

1:00:41

assistant district attorney. And the country

1:00:43

mentioned some county, I forget

1:00:45

what state it

1:00:46

was.

1:00:46

Was it in Alaska? Omaha. So it's like,

1:00:48

you know, probably not

1:00:50

a metropolis --

1:00:53

Mhmm. -- and twenty years have passed, and she's

1:00:55

just on the out you know, just

1:00:57

on the the waning

1:00:59

years years of possible childbirth

1:01:02

of that complications. Mhmm.

1:01:04

Pretty it's, you know, it's gonna keep post forty,

1:01:06

but, like, you know, she seems like she's

1:01:08

in excellent health and excited. So I it

1:01:12

it wasn't as redid. Because I thought they they're talking

1:01:14

about district attorney, like the district

1:01:16

attorney. And I'm

1:01:16

like, there's no fucking way, but assistant? Yeah.

1:01:20

I don't Sure.

1:01:23

I'll buy it. You

1:01:26

ready to go to the movie theater? Yes. I

1:01:28

am. Alright. The only

1:01:30

thing that really happens here is we

1:01:33

watch

1:01:34

I I think we're watching the movie, The

1:01:36

Goodbye Girl, but I've never seen

1:01:38

it to verify. So Do

1:01:40

you know apparently, it's about a

1:01:43

man and a woman entering a relation

1:01:45

ship, and the woman's got a child from the previous

1:01:47

one. And a lot of it's about

1:01:50

the child accepting the Richard

1:01:52

Draper's character as her dad. And I guess the scene

1:01:54

at the end of it, she is

1:01:56

the first time they are meeting, and I guess tells

1:01:59

the mom that this this guy would make a good dad.

1:02:01

And obvious parallels between

1:02:03

what's going on with Ellie and and Joel here.

1:02:06

Yeah.

1:02:06

Especially when she pulls up her sleeve and says, I'm

1:02:08

immune. Let's gather that part.

1:02:12

Exactly. On the nose,

1:02:14

but, you know A

1:02:15

little

1:02:15

bit. LEC is Tommy

1:02:17

leave, which is important to later scenes.

1:02:22

So was pretty slick how they used

1:02:24

Joel's voiceover of Ellie

1:02:26

Walker around the town trying to find him. They don't

1:02:28

ever because I was looking at the scene. I was like, are

1:02:31

we gonna see, like, Ellie with her nose pressed up against

1:02:33

the window or something in the background? Yeah.

1:02:35

Yeah.

1:02:35

But, like, the her walking down the

1:02:37

street is enough. The

1:02:38

way they edited it to where that's blended together,

1:02:40

it's it's not a surprise when we find that

1:02:42

later. Right. So let's talk about

1:02:45

that. Tommy brings Joel a new pair of boots. And

1:02:47

apologizes for their earlier conversation. Joel

1:02:49

tells Tommy Ellie he's immune to the infection and

1:02:51

then gives him the details of their journey. Now while

1:02:53

he's recounting it, we see Ellie wandering down the

1:02:55

street looking for Tommy. Joel

1:02:58

says he's not capable of getting Ellie

1:03:01

to her destination alive and begs

1:03:03

Tommy to take her. Tommy agrees

1:03:05

that they'll leave it on. He even promises

1:03:07

not to tell Maria, and then he points

1:03:10

Joel over toward his house and goes back to the

1:03:12

movie. Joel

1:03:16

falling apart. The first thing I noticed in this scene is

1:03:18

when he's like squeezing at his

1:03:20

boots with these pliers, He's

1:03:22

either got arthritis or just

1:03:24

sore hands or something. I mean, that's he's

1:03:27

fallen apart, man. Panic attacks. He's

1:03:29

got bad knees or back or something, arthritis.

1:03:32

Yes. That's fifty six.

1:03:34

Yeah. I mean,

1:03:37

shit. I I just threw my back out this

1:03:39

weekend at forty six. I'm recovering from

1:03:41

that. So, like, I imagine another ten years of

1:03:43

mileage ain't gonna be much better. But

1:03:47

this is another good scene. I mean,

1:03:49

we've talked out a lot of it already. I

1:03:52

will say that I was listen

1:03:54

to an official podcast. I was really hoping that

1:03:57

one of the one of our instant talkers

1:03:59

on Sunday night had the theory that

1:04:01

Joel referring to these nightmares he has where he feels

1:04:04

like he's always losing, he's always failing. Is

1:04:06

a nod to the video game reality in

1:04:08

which unless you are some master video

1:04:10

game player that that I am not,

1:04:13

you will die many many many

1:04:15

horrible deaths as Joel. Mhmm.

1:04:18

Before you restart at the last spawn

1:04:20

point or checkpoint and resume until

1:04:22

you fail again. And that that's, like, that

1:04:24

this that the the the homage of

1:04:26

that is, like, Joel psychically aware

1:04:28

of the video game self that, you know, all the times

1:04:31

he could have died. I thought

1:04:33

that was such a banger theory. And

1:04:35

then they never they they don't acknowledge that on official

1:04:37

podcast at all. It's just you

1:04:40

know, this was Pedro pass Al's idea. Like, I

1:04:42

guess he it wasn't improvised, but they talked it

1:04:44

on on the set about him, you know,

1:04:46

like, you you have these dreams where it's

1:04:48

like the opposite of, like, you have that dream

1:04:50

where it like your birthday and you

1:04:52

got a new bike and it's so real that you think

1:04:54

you got a new bike even though you didn't and you kind

1:04:56

of bummed the wake up. He's

1:04:58

like there's like other dreams you can have where

1:05:01

you lose something and it feels so

1:05:03

real, but you don't remember you just wake up

1:05:05

with this just feeling of loss. Yeah.

1:05:07

And that's something that Joel's waking up with every

1:05:09

fucking

1:05:09

day. That's a great interpretation too,

1:05:11

I gotta say. I like I like that

1:05:14

he's dreaming his alternate Joel

1:05:16

death dreams. Sure. He

1:05:18

could be doing

1:05:19

both. Right? And just waking up because because

1:05:21

it's him dying to remember it. seems as him failing.

1:05:24

True. Every time Joel dies, implied,

1:05:27

Ellie dies shortly after.

1:05:29

Yeah. No.

1:05:32

I I really love this scene. There's there's so

1:05:34

much such a powerful scene.

1:05:36

This is one of the very few

1:05:38

insights we get into Joel. I mean,

1:05:41

he doesn't open up with people like this.

1:05:44

The fact that he's at the end of his rope

1:05:46

and he's got his brother here allows

1:05:48

him to be more vulnerable

1:05:51

in this moment. And and what really

1:05:53

comes through in this entire scene

1:05:56

is not how

1:05:58

fearful Joel is and how

1:06:00

angry he has is it himself, but how

1:06:03

much he cares about Ellie? Like,

1:06:06

That's the driving force of all this. If he didn't

1:06:08

give a shit about Ellie, he wouldn't be having

1:06:10

this conversation. He would just

1:06:12

be letting her go.

1:06:14

He he wouldn't continue this mission or

1:06:16

he'd go along knowing, ah, I might die, but

1:06:18

it doesn't really matter that much. He cares

1:06:21

about Helly, and it's not just that Ellie could be

1:06:23

the salvation of humanity. I

1:06:25

think he's bonded with this girl over the

1:06:27

course of the last four months. To

1:06:30

the point where he cannot bear

1:06:32

to think that she would die? Yeah.

1:06:35

And IIII expressed

1:06:37

some confusion because I was as confused in the game

1:06:40

about, like, why isn't the natural thing?

1:06:42

It's just like, will Joel and Tommy

1:06:44

escort Ellie? If not get a

1:06:46

a posse of people to Tommy Trust and stuff because, like,

1:06:49

this is the most, you know, this is most important

1:06:51

person in the whole fucking world. Mhmm. After

1:06:55

I watched this a bunch of times and I listened

1:06:57

to the creators talk about it, like,

1:07:00

when Joel says I can't do this,

1:07:02

he's not He's like, if

1:07:04

if if if if a five year old, he told a five

1:07:06

year old to pick up an engine block, and they

1:07:08

go up and they try to they're just not they they they

1:07:10

can't do it. They just can't they're not physically

1:07:13

capable. Yeah. And something I've

1:07:15

appreciated as I've got older in life is

1:07:17

that we think of strength in terms of physical

1:07:19

terms. And, like, you know, obviously,

1:07:21

you wouldn't expect a five year old to carry an engine block,

1:07:23

even though a very strong man might be able to lift

1:07:25

that up. Right? With

1:07:28

emotional and mental strength and toughness,

1:07:31

we just assume that's infinite if you

1:07:33

care enough about it. Right? Right. Right. But

1:07:35

I've come to appreciate that, like, people have limits

1:07:37

on that stuff just like real physical limitations.

1:07:40

And Joel, when he said, I can't do this, he

1:07:42

literally means it. I I fucking can't do

1:07:44

it. And my presidential state

1:07:46

where I'm having constant panic attacks, but fail

1:07:49

fail on this girl. III can't do it. It's like

1:07:51

asking the five year old to move that engine block.

1:07:53

It's not about much you care not much he

1:07:55

loves, not much he how he doesn't wanna disappoint

1:07:57

people. It's just like he has a finite capacity

1:08:00

and it's been exceeded. And

1:08:02

when think about terms like that, it yeah. Like,

1:08:05

clearly, it would make more sense, you

1:08:07

know, to for them both to take

1:08:09

that, just like it might make sense for the five year old

1:08:11

pick up the engine block and do something useful with

1:08:13

it, but this is not gonna happen. Yeah.

1:08:16

And from Tommy's perspective, if

1:08:18

there's someone else to do this, he's

1:08:20

not going to. Right? I mean,

1:08:23

you've got you've got his brother here

1:08:25

begging him to take on this

1:08:27

responsibility because he can't

1:08:30

anymore. Tommy

1:08:32

has responsibilities of his own that I think are

1:08:34

just as important to him. And

1:08:37

the the only reason he is ever gonna agree to

1:08:39

this is because it's

1:08:41

so important to Joel and Joel is incapable

1:08:43

of doing it. And so when Joel comes back

1:08:45

the next day and says, I'm giving you the

1:08:47

choice, and Ellie chooses him.

1:08:51

Joel's had time a little bit of time to process

1:08:53

this. Right? And this might just be what he needed to

1:08:55

get him back on track. I'm

1:08:58

sure, like, he's still on

1:09:00

the edge, but maybe none has on the edge as he

1:09:02

was before. And so Tommy's not

1:09:04

gonna go with him if Joel doesn't absolutely need

1:09:06

him to. Yeah. I mean, it's gonna If

1:09:08

Joel is capable of doing this, Tommy will let him

1:09:10

do it because he has things that are extremely

1:09:13

important to him as

1:09:14

well. This this family he's about

1:09:16

to have. And this conversation is the

1:09:18

realization Joel's has gonna dovetail into the next

1:09:20

scene. Before we move on to that, I just wanna mention

1:09:23

that, like, the one thing I do find in usable

1:09:26

to this day is --

1:09:29

Mhmm. -- when Joel says, you can't tell anyone, Tommy,

1:09:31

I only trust you. Tommy should have

1:09:33

absolutely told Maria and probably a couple of his

1:09:35

really trusted friends on the council. And then

1:09:37

he shows up next morning

1:09:38

with, like, five serious people

1:09:41

that

1:09:41

they could be trusted or not. And

1:09:43

and, like, Joel's like, I only try like,

1:09:45

fuck you, Joel. Like, Yeah.

1:09:48

You only trust me. Well, I don't have that problem.

1:09:50

I trust a lot of people. And this

1:09:52

isn't important as you say, then we're not gonna take it a

1:09:54

chance. We're not gonna take a chance of my fucking

1:09:57

sub MOA optimized rifle and

1:09:59

just my own strong right hand and

1:10:01

sharp right

1:10:01

eye. Like, we're gonna I I wish that

1:10:04

they had done that. Totally.

1:10:07

Yeah. It it doesn't make perfect

1:10:10

sense here for Tommy, not to tell Maria

1:10:12

at least.

1:10:14

But it does fuck up the rest because, like, how

1:10:16

could Ellie say no. Like, if Joel or

1:10:18

Joel comes next morning, he's like, ah, could they and,

1:10:20

like, there's It's not just Tommy or

1:10:22

Joel, but it's, like, Joel plus Tommy and

1:10:24

a bunch of other, like, then the it's

1:10:27

couple transforms the game. So at some point

1:10:29

you got to kind of accept the logic of

1:10:31

this, but it does, like, I don't think there's

1:10:33

any rational. They're just not

1:10:35

emotionally strong enough to trust type

1:10:37

of, you know, argument. It's just No. It's

1:10:39

insane. And don't I don't know

1:10:41

why Joel thinks that no one else

1:10:43

could possibly believe that she's immune. They're

1:10:46

just gonna shoot her. They're gonna see an old

1:10:48

scarred thing on her arm and just

1:10:50

blow her head off before they even think about

1:10:52

it.

1:10:52

No. Some people would, but

1:10:54

like I've seen people, but not these. Tommy would know

1:10:56

the people to trust and I I don't think Maria would

1:10:58

do that. Right. And I also

1:11:01

I'm I'm not saying this is unrealistic because

1:11:03

I know their dudes out there with their codes of

1:11:05

honor that would do this exact same shit if your brother

1:11:07

came up and

1:11:07

said, you can't tell

1:11:08

anybody. Even if you think it's fucking stupid, you're still

1:11:10

going to because that's what you told your brother's gonna

1:11:12

do. And

1:11:14

honestly, Tommy Jones seem like they could be that

1:11:16

way, but you're right. You're right. I'm a hundred percent

1:11:18

with you. Oh, no. These

1:11:19

guys are peas and a pod, I think. Mhmm.

1:11:22

You know? They certainly were.

1:11:24

I feel like they're diverging a little bit here

1:11:26

because of the damage to Joel because of

1:11:28

-- Right. -- experiences

1:11:29

each of them have had in isolation. Yeah.

1:11:32

Yeah. I mean, if you're on a commune, postapocalyptic

1:11:34

commune where everybody's getting together and raising kids

1:11:37

got to positively impact your feelings

1:11:39

about

1:11:39

humanity. Right? Oh, yeah. You

1:11:42

know. And I like the moment where,

1:11:44

you know, Tommy goes back to the movie

1:11:46

theater and he chooses not to stand

1:11:48

with Maria there because he

1:11:51

can't talk. He can't talk right

1:11:53

now. He knows that if

1:11:55

he starts talking to her, he's

1:11:57

gonna tell her

1:12:00

about Ellie. But And merino's.

1:12:02

Merino's. Oh, she knows something's up. Yeah. Yeah.

1:12:04

And I think she has a pretty good idea of

1:12:07

of what it is.

1:12:08

Mhmm. And,

1:12:11

man, I I just wanna say how good this

1:12:14

scene is from an acting standpoint too.

1:12:16

I mean, Page or Pass Al has

1:12:19

never done better work? I

1:12:21

don't know. I I really loved him

1:12:23

in this. So particular scene?

1:12:26

Yeah. No. He's He no.

1:12:30

Yeah. Yeah.

1:12:31

You're right. He nailed it. Like, this is Like, he's like

1:12:33

the twinkling of tears in his eyes as

1:12:35

he's explaining this to Tommy and the way the

1:12:37

light just catches it

1:12:38

perfectly. The thing is Yeah. Yeah. Like,

1:12:41

I I just watch couple nights ago as I'm

1:12:43

I'm watching Better Call Saul, and I wanna talk about that

1:12:45

now. But there's a scene where in like

1:12:47

middle parts of season five where they give

1:12:49

Jimmy this this speech where he just goes

1:12:51

off and just unloads on somebody.

1:12:54

And it just goes on and on and, like,

1:12:56

you know, god.

1:12:59

Who's the guy to play to Saul Jesus? Bob

1:13:02

Odenkirk. Bob Odenkirk is just just

1:13:04

just singing his teeth in

1:13:05

his. He just gets to rage as pure it, not

1:13:07

as pure raw emotion.

1:13:10

But it it's not nearly as impactful as Pedro

1:13:12

Pascale as a red rim, you know,

1:13:15

tier tier S01E06 face because, like,

1:13:17

he's This is a

1:13:19

man who is so closed off. And so,

1:13:21

like, just just you could just through

1:13:23

this little cracking the dam, you can

1:13:26

see how much emotions behind that. And

1:13:28

think that's actually kind of harder

1:13:30

to play than some having, like,

1:13:32

a fucking royal Shakespeare moment where they're

1:13:34

just venting their spleen. Like,

1:13:36

the amount of control that you have to be

1:13:39

this particular dialed in of a

1:13:41

performance, I think is super impressive.

1:13:44

Yeah. No,

1:13:45

I love it. Fair enough. I wouldn't I mean, Joel's just

1:13:47

balling and sobbing and snot running. It

1:13:49

it wouldn't play. It would seem false.

1:13:52

But this is Joel -- Wouldn't play

1:13:53

game. Yeah. -- this is Joel Indian. This is what

1:13:55

this looks like, you know. Yeah. This is this

1:13:57

very strong man, emotionally

1:14:01

closed off man, having

1:14:03

that moment where the dam is breaking. But,

1:14:05

like, the dam is still there.

1:14:07

It's just got a hole in it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:14:10

So Joe goes back to the house where he finds

1:14:13

Ellie. And

1:14:15

and realizes she's overheard his conversation

1:14:17

with Tommy. She's angry and hurt

1:14:19

and brings up Sarah, which is a big mistake.

1:14:22

And Joe ends up telling her that he's leaving in the

1:14:24

morning, leaving her not

1:14:26

going. Joe goes back to his

1:14:28

room and remembers Christmas with Sarah.

1:14:33

Boy, this is a hard thing to watch, man.

1:14:36

A lot of it is straight out of the game. This this

1:14:38

line about just being more

1:14:39

scared. Is definitely

1:14:41

straight out of the game. Joel,

1:14:45

you're not my daughter. I'm sure so I'm not your dad.

1:14:47

That's another because I remember playing this in this

1:14:49

kitty. Pricing out loud even like Jesus

1:14:51

Joel. Like, this feels wrong when it's happening

1:14:54

to you. Mhmm. You know? And acting

1:14:57

like you're the only one in the world who can feel

1:14:59

loss because you lost something

1:15:01

precious to you. There are a thousand.

1:15:03

There are a million used out there, Joel.

1:15:06

Everyone's lost someone look at the world.

1:15:08

Mhmm. It's not your right

1:15:10

to be the only person to feel like this.

1:15:13

It's just that you're so stuck in it,

1:15:15

that other people you see other

1:15:17

people getting past it, moving on,

1:15:20

and you get angry at them. Yeah.

1:15:23

Yeah. The gatekeeping of loss and grief that

1:15:25

goes on here is really It's

1:15:29

just a bad look for Joel. And just

1:15:31

the way he turns on Ellie here because

1:15:33

he's unable

1:15:35

he's unable to talk to her. He's unable to explain

1:15:37

what's going on in his own head. It's

1:15:41

rough. Yeah. And he's this

1:15:45

is I think this is a mistake a lot of parents

1:15:47

make with teenagers is to dismiss

1:15:49

their emotions as like, you know, when

1:15:51

they fall in love, it's like, oh, it's a stupid

1:15:53

puppy love. It's this, that and the other. And

1:15:56

there's some truth of this, like, you know, twenty

1:15:58

years from now, Will

1:16:00

your fourteen year old look at their boyfriend

1:16:02

and think, oh my god, this was the love of my

1:16:04

life? Probably not. In

1:16:06

context, it'll be like, oh, But, like, in

1:16:08

the moment, when your this is the greatest

1:16:11

love that they've ever felt. And when it terminates,

1:16:13

it will be the worst their heart has ever

1:16:15

been hurt. And you have to kind of honor that.

1:16:17

You can't you know, maybe it'll be a time later

1:16:20

to be like, oh, you know, things will get better. Blah. Blah. Blah.

1:16:22

You can in the moment be like, you're not. You don't

1:16:24

even know what love is. You know, that's like what

1:16:26

a lot of people say, you know. And

1:16:28

it's just Joel's trying to do

1:16:30

that. There's also a little bit. They mentioned this on official

1:16:33

podcast of Wednesday stop not

1:16:35

another word. It there's a little bit of pleading

1:16:37

like he did with the old man. Mhmm. Like,

1:16:40

don't you

1:16:42

know, just like Joel knew he would shoot that guy if he had

1:16:44

to, like, I think Joel knows he'll be cruel

1:16:46

to Ellie if she comes and attacks him at this vulnerable

1:16:48

point.

1:16:49

Yeah. And he's like, please don't make me

1:16:51

do this. Don't, you know, don't

1:16:54

don't lash out

1:16:54

at me, so I'll have to lash out at you. And

1:16:59

And it's so sad to cap this

1:17:01

scene off with him remembering Sarah

1:17:05

at Christmas. Because this is

1:17:07

a life he could have. I mean,

1:17:09

we've seen Tommy in this

1:17:11

horrible world grow into

1:17:13

a life like that. Right

1:17:15

now, if he weren't able

1:17:17

to move on and acknowledge that, yes, this is a terrible

1:17:19

thing and he's still sad that he lost Sarah, he could put

1:17:21

up a memorial plaque for. Right? But, like,

1:17:24

You could be having this right now. Right

1:17:27

now, you just can't get past it.

1:17:30

Well, that that's the greatest I think that's one

1:17:32

best lines in the episode where Tom, you know, they're

1:17:34

talking about the way they used to live and how they used

1:17:36

to get by and murder and raiding and all that kind of

1:17:38

stuff. And Tommy says,

1:17:40

you know, there are better ways to live. Joel,

1:17:43

we just weren't any good at it. Mhmm.

1:17:45

And why weren't they good at it? What would did

1:17:47

they, you know, they obviously have an abundance

1:17:49

of this type of physical strength? Did

1:17:52

they not have the emotional strength? Did they cannot I

1:17:54

I don't know there's lot there's a lot to unpack

1:17:56

there, but I thought that's just such a great line that,

1:17:58

you know, we you know, we we are fooling

1:18:00

ourselves by saying we did the things we had to

1:18:03

because look at me now and I

1:18:05

don't have to yeah. But Yeah.

1:18:09

Also, they kill people. They do kill the

1:18:11

wrong people that come into this community. They

1:18:13

don't let them go in and vote -- Sure. --

1:18:15

you know, to fuck up the so like they're

1:18:17

you still murder people, Tommy, but

1:18:20

but maybe not just to put food in your belly.

1:18:22

Yeah. Yeah. That that's

1:18:24

also that's a great That's such a funny

1:18:27

thing where they say, you know, that

1:18:29

they they make examples out of the wrong sort

1:18:31

of people. But then later in the episode,

1:18:33

Maria is giving a tour in a town. She talks about

1:18:35

how the old bank is of jail, but

1:18:37

we don't we it's empty. There's nothing we don't

1:18:39

have anybody in it.

1:18:40

Mhmm. May

1:18:43

maybe you lock up the dangerous people

1:18:45

you're not sure about for

1:18:47

Instead of just killing him.

1:18:48

Instead just killing him, maybe? I don't know.

1:18:51

Yeah. I I can't tell because Tommy calls it

1:18:53

like he describes these people as the people

1:18:55

who've tried them. And to me, that

1:18:57

means like they've come in, they've attacked

1:18:59

them specifically tried

1:19:02

to, like, harm them,

1:19:04

not just shown up and not fit into

1:19:06

the community. Right? So maybe it's something where

1:19:08

Well, if they're trying to kill us, we have to kill them

1:19:11

to stop them. But look,

1:19:13

I would love to go into the civics and politics

1:19:15

of this place if we do, it's gonna be a another

1:19:17

two hour long over two hour long podcast.

1:19:20

Well, then let's move on. Because I did I do also

1:19:23

wonder, like, what if someone decides they have

1:19:25

a they have they they they can't they they

1:19:27

have a breach in this community where there's just a

1:19:29

lot loggerheads and like one family just wants

1:19:31

to move. Okay? Fuck it. You do whatever you We're

1:19:33

gonna Did they let them leave? Right.

1:19:36

Because they don't let them use the radio? Right.

1:19:40

So I

1:19:42

would love to see, like, what

1:19:45

what yeah. How does a how would the society

1:19:47

deal with, like, you know, essentially a civil

1:19:49

war, people wanna leave the union. You

1:19:51

can't. It's against the law. You can't do

1:19:53

that. You can't throw you in

1:19:55

jail. We'll see anyone come back

1:19:57

in this,

1:19:58

but I don't know. Yeah. I'm still there,

1:20:00

so we could. Yeah. I'm not saying that's even

1:20:02

a bad thing to do in this particular world. It's

1:20:04

just, yeah, I'd love to see that shit get explored.

1:20:07

Tough

1:20:07

decisions. The next day, Tommy takes

1:20:09

Elliot in the stables to get some horses. They find

1:20:11

Joel there. He's apparently decided to give Elliot

1:20:13

the choice to go with him or Tommy. Ellie

1:20:16

immediately chooses Joel. Tommy

1:20:18

says, you guys have a place here in

1:20:20

Jackson when you get

1:20:21

back. And Joel borrows Tommy's

1:20:23

gone and they say goodbye. And

1:20:26

Tommy came

1:20:27

to knock on Ellie's door. Did

1:20:29

that make him a Tommyknocker?

1:20:31

Oh my god. Here here's

1:20:34

shame on you.

1:20:36

Secondly, Tommy

1:20:40

gave Joel his

1:20:41

gun. Does that make it a Tom again?

1:20:44

I did a hundred percent. He's

1:20:47

a Tommyknocker wielding a Tommy gun.

1:20:53

Yeah. Yeah. There's your

1:20:56

quota for puns this week. Mhmm.

1:20:59

Now

1:20:59

when we go to the ad, make every shot

1:21:01

count, we'll be back with more of Savage Starlight.

1:21:07

We're not to cure for mankind, but we have your

1:21:09

favorite podcast. Here's more of Savage

1:21:11

Starlight. Anyway,

1:21:15

I love this scene. Joel

1:21:19

the the way Joel describes his journey his

1:21:21

emotional journey in the scene, like, he came

1:21:23

here to steal a horse, He's

1:21:25

been standing around for thirty minutes, probably,

1:21:28

like, saddling it up, probably wondering

1:21:30

if he's making a mistake. Thirty

1:21:32

minutes later, here he still

1:21:33

is. So you got a choice. And

1:21:36

this yeah. Like, he could have gotten out there before thirty

1:21:38

minutes, but he's been stalling the time. And also

1:21:40

there's a subtle grammatical shift where

1:21:42

Joel came out to steal a horse. But

1:21:45

then he asked Tommy, I I or

1:21:48

or no. Tommy tells him there's a place for you

1:21:50

here, and he says, I'm counting for I'm

1:21:52

I'm counting on it. And then Joel says, can I

1:21:54

borrow your gun? Mhmm. Like

1:21:57

I said, something implies you're never coming

1:21:59

back. Borrowing is promise I'm

1:22:01

going to be back. And that that shift

1:22:03

happens after Tommy says there's a place for you here.

1:22:05

I thought that was a really nice touch. Mhmm. And

1:22:08

also, we haven't been because, like, this is

1:22:10

S01E06, I guess, about on the Instatec, but, like,

1:22:12

my god, the scenery in this episode. This

1:22:14

whole thing takes place, like, the

1:22:16

the stable against this dramatic mountain

1:22:19

backdrop. Where there's, like, snow kind

1:22:22

of obscuring it. Like, I goddamn.

1:22:25

This is a beautiful part of Canada that they're

1:22:27

filming

1:22:27

in. The

1:22:28

Oh, yeah.

1:22:29

With the with the Canadian Rockies just always in

1:22:31

the background. Oh my god. Incredible.

1:22:35

The other thing about this gun is this

1:22:37

is I I think Tommy describes this

1:22:39

as the gun that he probably

1:22:41

had in the first episode. Right?

1:22:44

And this is the gun that they were you he was wielding

1:22:46

when they were fleeing --

1:22:47

Right. -- the gun he just killed the soldier --

1:22:49

Mhmm. -- who shot Sarah.

1:22:53

Yeah. So I like the full circle moment

1:22:55

there. Alright.

1:22:58

Let's go over to Joel

1:23:01

and Ellie, they leave. They he

1:23:03

tries to teach her how to shoot, but she has a lot

1:23:05

to learn. They continue writing as

1:23:07

Ellie asked questions about ownership

1:23:09

in the old world, contractors, football,

1:23:13

and then within five days, they arrive at

1:23:15

the University of East Colorado. A

1:23:19

lot of great moments here, you know,

1:23:21

like Joel putting around

1:23:24

right on the target. It's like one of those things

1:23:26

where

1:23:28

It's it's feels it feels good to be a superhero

1:23:30

to your kids, you know, like every once in while

1:23:33

when you can do, you know, when your kid's struggling

1:23:35

to something and and you can nail it or, you

1:23:37

know, they mention this in a podcast. It's like

1:23:39

it's it's it feels good to be the dad, but also

1:23:41

as a kid, when you see your your mom

1:23:43

or dad do something super heroic, it

1:23:45

reinforces that you're safe with them. But you're

1:23:47

with the competent series because, like, everyone loves

1:23:50

it. I I thought

1:23:52

that was funny. The look on Pedro

1:23:54

Pascal's face. When he's

1:23:57

like, yeah, we were pretty cool. Everybody loved

1:23:59

contractors. And the way she

1:24:01

kinda melted into his back at the end

1:24:03

of that scene, like, she just kinda, like, you know, leans

1:24:05

up against him and it

1:24:07

kinda brings tears my eyes because it's just such a great

1:24:09

way to show the fundamental

1:24:12

shift that's happening in their relationship post Jackson.

1:24:15

Yes. Absolutely. And

1:24:18

and, like, it's she like, I love Ellie when

1:24:20

she calls him on his badass, you

1:24:22

know, dialogue where He's

1:24:24

like, oh, what is the time you didn't know what he was talking

1:24:26

about? We had five easy days. No problems.

1:24:28

There's still time to find

1:24:29

out. Oh, the contract

1:24:32

factory. This is really

1:24:34

funny. Yeah. He's almost

1:24:36

given himself a superhero name. Like

1:24:40

you're saying, he's John Wick.

1:24:43

Yep. He's revising history and

1:24:46

building walls. So

1:24:49

then they searched the campus for fireflies

1:24:51

while chatting about more stuff about school.

1:24:53

Joel's real wish for his future, which

1:24:56

is to be a singer. They

1:24:58

see

1:24:58

monkeys. They spot a firefly symbol

1:25:00

pointing them to the biomedical sciences building,

1:25:03

so that's where they

1:25:04

head. You

1:25:06

wanna talk about anything here? No

1:25:08

notes. Alright. Let's get to the final

1:25:11

scene. They get in

1:25:13

the biomedical building. They find it

1:25:15

abandoned. Then they hear a

1:25:17

sound and they go up to investigate. It's just

1:25:19

monkeys. They see a map that seems to

1:25:21

indicate the fireflies might have gone to Salt Lake

1:25:23

City. And outside, they hear people

1:25:25

talking, and they spot four guys with

1:25:27

bats prodding around. They

1:25:29

go out the back to get to their horse, Joel

1:25:32

gets tacked and injured, but they

1:25:34

managed to get on the horse and ride

1:25:36

off. And once they get clear,

1:25:38

Joel passes out and falls off his

1:25:41

horse in the episode ends with Ellie pleading

1:25:43

for him to wake up.

1:25:46

Yeah. I I you know, there's not much to talk right

1:25:48

here either. I like you know, they're they're

1:25:50

inferring all this stuff. They find the packing list.

1:25:52

Like, people are getting packed up, upstairs. They

1:25:54

find a series of push pins and

1:25:56

a map to verges to one central spot

1:25:59

that implies a destination. So that's

1:26:01

where we're gonna be heading. And just like in

1:26:03

a video game, just when you think, you know, they

1:26:05

did They did the they abated the jump scare

1:26:08

with the monkey that turned out to be

1:26:10

not a clicker, but just a monkey. And then they

1:26:12

go down. And just when you think everything

1:26:14

is in the cleared, they're about get this

1:26:16

guy comes running with the club. And

1:26:19

just when you think it's safe there, turns out

1:26:21

he he broke that baseball. And I'd I I when

1:26:24

I'm like, when did he get stabbed? Me too.

1:26:26

Yep. But, like, it's beautiful because that

1:26:28

guy had the remains of the broken

1:26:30

handle in his hands when Joel goes to

1:26:32

tackle him, them and his hands as Joel

1:26:34

tackles them, we're right in a business to jab that broken

1:26:37

handle right where it is at.

1:26:38

Yeah. And it said Joel doesn't even notice it. Right?

1:26:40

Joel's like he's so react with adrenaline.

1:26:43

He's so in fight mode. He

1:26:46

kills the guy and then realizes it.

1:26:49

Yeah. And then he pulls it

1:26:50

out, which like I said in the instant take, is

1:26:52

the worst thing, like, if you ever

1:26:54

get if you ever punctured, your body ever gets punctured

1:26:56

to something, leave it there until

1:26:59

you get to professionals because I

1:27:02

don't know. I saw this one, the video were like an

1:27:05

doctor took, like, a ziplock

1:27:07

bag full of, like, red liquid and

1:27:09

he steps to add the kitchen knife into it and,

1:27:11

like, absolutely nothing came out. As soon

1:27:13

as you take it out, like, it starts with stuff that's

1:27:15

poor and you put the knife back in, it stops. Like,

1:27:19

not not the crib from Star Trek, the

1:27:21

next generation, but we are bags

1:27:23

of carbon bags mostly full

1:27:25

of water and this into

1:27:28

science. It's a science works. If you got stuck

1:27:30

in there, it'll pull it out because might be keeping you from

1:27:32

gushing blood. Yeah. Joel,

1:27:35

there is no one to

1:27:36

help. So Right.

1:27:38

He pulls it out.

1:27:39

Gonna arrive five days with a batonier

1:27:41

guts. Yeah. And it's

1:27:44

bad. Like, he immediately starts bleeding. They

1:27:46

barely get out of there and horseback, and then

1:27:48

there's, like, great shot of him, you know, on

1:27:51

the on on the the train

1:27:53

tracks. Finally,

1:27:55

you know, again losing his physical strength and

1:27:57

just falling off and three

1:27:59

times previous this episode, Elliott

1:28:02

said, if you die, I'm

1:28:04

pretty much boned. And

1:28:07

now you see that not just the terror,

1:28:09

but she's so scared, but also

1:28:11

the sense of loss. Like,

1:28:14

it's not not just losing

1:28:16

your

1:28:16

protector, but you're losing a

1:28:18

person you deeply care about at this point.

1:28:20

Yeah. No. It's

1:28:23

it's super sad. I also think about it

1:28:25

from Joel's perspective, you know, as he's fading

1:28:27

out here. What's

1:28:30

going through his head? I failed again.

1:28:33

Right. And I failed for the final time. Yeah.

1:28:35

He's having fucking nightmares as he's

1:28:37

laser

1:28:37

dying. It's -- Yeah. Yeah.

1:28:40

Fuck man. Yeah. Stan, that's

1:28:42

the thing. It's like Gary's again. It's like, well, everyone understands

1:28:45

losing. Like, you know, Joel can't open

1:28:47

his eyes at the end he's passing

1:28:49

out on blood loss, no to what? No one would

1:28:51

pass and be like, what? Fucking pussy. If you wanna

1:28:53

get up, he would be right. If you

1:28:55

just want it to, he just fucking stand up.

1:28:57

Team. Come on. But yet, you have a

1:28:59

series of panic attacks like fucking pussy. He

1:29:01

doesn't need to he needs to push through, man.

1:29:04

Right. Right? Also,

1:29:06

great video game nod. Joel breaks

1:29:08

a motherfucker's neck. Do

1:29:10

you do you have any next I've broken the ladder of

1:29:12

us is my preferred is my preferred method.

1:29:15

You sneak up. You grab them. They struggle.

1:29:18

Snap. You don't use you don't use any

1:29:20

bullets. You don't use any

1:29:22

shivs. You just state this, day

1:29:24

this, day this, go

1:29:25

this, the light switch turns off. It's

1:29:27

great. It's beautiful thing. Got the time.

1:29:30

Why not? Alright. Let's end

1:29:32

the episode. I really wanna talk some some

1:29:34

spoiler stuff. Okay. If

1:29:36

you get the time.

1:29:38

So I I

1:29:40

recognize this as the cover the mesh

1:29:42

modes never let me down again at the end

1:29:44

of the song. Okay. But, like, I I was like, why

1:29:46

this is an interesting cover? I've never heard it before.

1:29:49

I grab my trusty shazam. It

1:29:51

listened to it like two or three times and it failed.

1:29:53

I'm like, what the fuck? That

1:29:55

like, oh, net oh, I can think

1:29:57

of one time that Shazam has ever failed and

1:29:59

has been some weird fucking cultural

1:30:01

folk festival I went to.

1:30:05

This is Neil Druckman's eighteen year old

1:30:07

daughter covering -- Oh. --

1:30:09

the Peshkabir never let me down again. And

1:30:11

the lyrics This is a song about

1:30:14

abusing drugs. But

1:30:16

the lyrics of it, I'm going I'm going on

1:30:18

a ride with my best friend. I hope

1:30:21

he doesn't let me down again. It's

1:30:24

such it it ties so well to the

1:30:26

theme and

1:30:27

having, you know, again, Neil Duckman's

1:30:30

daughter singing it, I thought was super poignant.

1:30:33

Isn't this the same song that Episode one

1:30:35

ended with? Did it?

1:30:39

I wanna say that's true. They did the actual

1:30:41

version. But they did the the Pech mode version. Right?

1:30:43

Right. Right. It was not this cover

1:30:45

version, but same song. Is

1:30:46

that the way is that is that how is that is

1:30:48

that what they play for the danger music? Is that what you're

1:30:50

talking about?

1:30:51

Yeah. Uh-huh.

1:30:52

wow. Yeah. Good catch. Apparently, that's

1:30:55

true. Yeah. I can't

1:30:57

remember, like, that's sixty -- emotional.

1:31:00

It was. I can't remember the emotional beat that the

1:31:02

first one is ending on. It's more

1:31:05

it's it's it's more, like, it's more hide danger.

1:31:07

Yeah. Like, immediate --

1:31:09

Yeah. -- danger. It was, like, it's an eighties pop song.

1:31:11

That means danger, not that it has.

1:31:13

But now -- Wow. --

1:31:15

wow. Wow. The danger is a fucking

1:31:18

That's a fucking great choice and a great

1:31:20

way to cover it because it just adds so

1:31:22

much more layers to it. Especially

1:31:24

from it, Now being from the

1:31:26

perspective almost with an eighteen year old girl

1:31:28

covering this almost from the perspective of

1:31:30

like

1:31:30

Ellie. Right? It's a hundred percent.

1:31:33

Yeah. Cool. It's good

1:31:35

stuff. Alright. I just about

1:31:37

said if that's it, but there's I forgot

1:31:39

we have a Spore lore section. Is

1:31:42

this a sport lore, a super sport lore?

1:31:44

It's just my sport lore. I I think it's just sport

1:31:46

lore. So if you have played

1:31:48

the last of us or you don't mind spoilers

1:31:52

from the last of us, you

1:31:54

can you're you're free to to come along in this

1:31:56

section with us. But

1:31:59

otherwise, this will probably be the end

1:32:01

of the episode for you. If you like to

1:32:03

send us feedback, we'll be doing a feedback episode on

1:32:05

Thursday, t Lou, TL0U with Balbu.

1:32:08

Dot com is how you send that in. Follow

1:32:10

along with everything that we're releasing on Twitter,

1:32:12

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1:32:14

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1:32:16

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1:32:18

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1:32:21

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support that ball boob dot com. We could really

1:32:33

use your support. We really appreciate Okay.

1:32:36

There's gonna be a little bit more in spoiler edition,

1:32:38

but I do recommend everyone that has not

1:32:40

played the first

1:32:41

game. Get get the hell out. Get the hell out while

1:32:43

you still can. Mhmm. Alright.

1:32:45

Yeah. We're gonna talk about

1:32:48

zoo animals. I think

1:32:50

we've lost our tail, Jim. I think we're I

1:32:52

think we're good. I think we're we're good to

1:32:54

go. We could talk now. Alright. Cool.

1:32:57

They got they got the monkeys in there.

1:32:59

They didn't get the giraffes.

1:33:01

Wait a second. Wait

1:33:04

a second. Mhmm.

1:33:05

The drafts are in this scene because I

1:33:07

thought that happened. No. Denver. No.

1:33:11

I

1:33:12

Mhmm. Because these I thought that the research monkeys

1:33:14

were from this were from the research. The

1:33:16

the others are from the zoo. Right? I

1:33:19

could've sworn it happened here. You might

1:33:20

be right. You

1:33:21

might be right. I

1:33:22

was, man, they don't fucking do the draft.

1:33:24

I know. Well, that's why it's not it's not like

1:33:26

I'm gonna ride it because it's not like that makes

1:33:28

or breaks. And game. But

1:33:30

it would be like if they do shit.

1:33:35

It would be like if they tried to de adapt the

1:33:37

second one with out paying homage to

1:33:39

some of Elliott's interests.

1:33:45

Okay. Yes. I know you I don't know what you mean

1:33:47

without -- Yeah. Saying it again.

1:33:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Maybe it's maybe

1:33:51

it's not this part of

1:33:53

the thing. So this so there are two, like,

1:33:56

big plot points coming up that

1:34:00

they're gonna have to stretch a little bit, I think,

1:34:04

stretch the plot for three more episodes. I I'm

1:34:06

looking at this. I'm going, well, the next episode is

1:34:08

obvious what that's gonna be. Yeah.

1:34:11

Although I saw it, like, preview next time

1:34:13

on stuff, and it looks like we're gonna explore a

1:34:15

little bit of Ellie's past, which I'm excited

1:34:17

for. But

1:34:19

yeah, the the the next plot

1:34:21

point, which is just Ellie trying

1:34:23

to protect Joel here. That

1:34:27

stuff and then the stuff at, like, the

1:34:29

very end of the game with the fireflies

1:34:31

or, like, two plot points we have left,

1:34:34

but we got three answers left. Let

1:34:36

me ask you this. Did

1:34:40

when when Ellie gets up at dawn,

1:34:42

doesn't she run off? Doesn't she

1:34:44

run away in the video game? She does. Yeah.

1:34:47

No. I'm glad they skipped that here. Well,

1:34:50

yes, I think it's fine the way

1:34:52

they did it.

1:34:53

But, like, does it so it doesn't really

1:34:55

get injured in the process, because III

1:34:57

remember

1:34:58

thinking I think that that point because there's a point

1:35:00

where Joel finds Ellie injured

1:35:02

and he's like, oh, Ellie Girl, and

1:35:04

fuses over her and that's the point in the game you

1:35:06

realize that he has, you

1:35:08

know, he he he loves her likes Sarah.

1:35:12

To find her injured because I I remember a

1:35:14

mad dash to find her. Like, Tom him and

1:35:16

Tommy jump on horses and ride as fast

1:35:18

as they

1:35:18

can. To get behind you because Joel's

1:35:21

in a blind panic about her getting herself

1:35:23

hurt. So but I I thought I remembered there was a scene at the

1:35:25

end where he's like cradling her in her arms and like

1:35:27

fussing over her and you

1:35:28

realize, like, oh my god, it's it's happened. You

1:35:31

know, he's Oh, yeah. There's a whole sequence

1:35:33

where you play as Ellie. Right? And, like,

1:35:35

these people are hunting you.

1:35:36

Well, that's in the

1:35:37

next I think that's gonna be in the next

1:35:40

chapter. Well, there are two parts to that, I

1:35:42

think, because I think Joel gets injured there.

1:35:46

Because right in the game, he falls

1:35:48

and gets stat. Like, you like like like

1:35:50

it's the old rebar through the guts in the game.

1:35:53

Right?

1:35:54

I can't remember exactly. I'm sure this is thrilling for

1:35:56

people who've played the game and know it extremely

1:35:59

well. Yeah. But no. I I

1:36:01

think Ellie has the the hunter hunters.

1:36:04

But, you know what I mean, people that are stalking

1:36:06

her in this cabin. She's holed up there and Joel

1:36:08

comes in

1:36:10

and saves her from that

1:36:12