0:11

This is the case of Marion

0:13

Barta, a mother, teacher,

0:17

friend, missing

0:19

for 27 years. The

0:26

bizarre circumstances surrounding her

0:28

disappearance. I'm

0:31

not sure if it was intentional or if there's something more foul

0:33

or foot. If you could

0:35

imagine a teacher coming straight from, say, your little

0:37

house on the prairie to the 80s, that was

0:39

Marion Barta. What did you learn from

0:41

who I see? Whether you

0:44

find Marion Barta dead or alive, I

0:46

honestly believe somebody has that key

0:49

piece of information. And

0:51

the relentless quest of a daughter

0:53

to find her mum. Something

0:55

had happened. Something has happened to make

0:57

her leave. I

1:01

am 100% sure, 100% sure that somebody knows something. The

1:10

Lady Vanishes, Episode 57, The

1:12

Findings. I'm

1:18

Alison Sandy. And

1:20

I'm Brian Seymour. And

1:24

here we are, New South Wales Coroner's

1:26

Court at Lidcombe. Yep,

1:31

okay, I can see a bunch of people wearing green.

1:34

A couple more arriving here, a couple of high

1:36

fives. Yeah,

1:38

it's going to be a good turnout today. What you'd expect.

1:42

Lots of people watching online. Welcome.

1:47

It's going to be like 35 degrees Celsius

1:49

today, so maybe hotter out

1:51

here. It's going to be a very hot one. Otherwise

1:56

very clear, beautiful day. Yeah.

2:00

How parts about half full? some

2:02

sort out of a half an

2:05

hour to the corner. Is

2:08

a long awaited Findings are you

2:10

see if the cafes crowded the

2:12

lot of people he sweating and

2:14

it also as and i kept

2:16

hidden. In

2:21

The Leader I currently. To

2:24

be office of the New South

2:26

Wales Corner requesting that we be

2:28

granted access to the price as

2:30

evidence compiled by police and the

2:33

video of the police interview with

2:35

Whitlam from September Twenty Twenty one.

2:38

He's the response I received. Corona

2:41

declines the application as the suspected

2:44

death of Marion Bada is an

2:46

ongoing investigation, even though the karate

2:48

or proceedings will conclude once findings

2:50

are delivered on Thursday. When.

2:53

Not so what that means

2:55

is the corner foreshadowing. That

2:57

see will be restoring the masses.

2:59

Had the to pay pay oh

3:02

issue just suggesting that a police

3:04

investigation will likely technically remain it

3:06

and even if she makes no

3:09

particular finding about what happened to

3:11

Marion. Remember the

3:13

police told us when we started five

3:15

years? The guys that. The case

3:17

was still ongoing, despite having

3:19

suspended their investigation and twenty.

3:21

Eleven were that define

3:23

down? Sally

3:29

Increase travel to see the yesterday

3:31

Allison was on the same flight.

3:33

We'll meet outside. The New South

3:35

Wales current is caught on a

3:37

Sunday morning. We're a crowd of

3:39

supporters, many wearing green. Memory of

3:41

Marion is building in anticipation of

3:43

the court opening. For

3:45

you. And

4:00

she followed from the beginning to... From

4:03

20... I think it was

4:06

2020? Yeah, 2020. I

4:09

guess in French, we'll be onto the

4:11

podcast. It's just been so

4:13

invested in it. It's been

4:16

incredible. Yeah, absolutely incredible. Well,

4:18

look, I met in Salem. I said, I'm going to

4:20

come along. I might not get in the courtroom. I

4:23

didn't know how many would turn up. And she said,

4:25

no, it can't. Definitely come. Come and sit with us.

4:27

And so I'm glad that... I'm glad she's got

4:29

a good journey. Wonderful. She deserves

4:31

it. She's known so well.

4:34

She's like a dog with a bone. Sally's

4:38

Facebook site, Missing Person Marion

4:40

Barta, is flooded with images

4:42

of people in green sending their

4:44

best wishes from all around the

4:46

world. Likewise, the

4:48

lady vanishes social media. Online,

4:51

more than 2,000 people are

4:53

waiting for the livestream to begin. That

4:56

will grow to more than 15,000 by the end

4:58

of the proceedings. The

5:01

doors open at 9.45. Due

5:07

to the large crowd waiting to get inside, Alison

5:09

stays in the media room while I take

5:11

a seat at the end of a row

5:14

inside. The large hexagonal

5:16

courtroom quickly fills with supporters.

5:19

The rest, about 30 people, go to a

5:21

separate viewing room. In

5:23

the front row, Sally sits with Chris,

5:25

her best friend Ray and Joni.

5:28

Council assisting Adam Castleton is at the legal bench,

5:31

along with Sally's lawyer Brad Smith and

5:34

the legal representatives for New South Wales Police.

5:37

Rick Bloom's lawyer, Mr White, is

5:39

appearing remotely. But the audio

5:42

visual link meets with technical difficulties. We

5:45

can hear his dog barking and that elicits a

5:47

loud burst of laughter. Before Mr

5:49

White informs the court, he's not in

5:51

a proper condition to appear on video.

5:55

There is no sign of Rick Bloom himself.

5:59

Coroner Teresa O'Souza. Sullivan enters the court.

6:01

Everyone stands and abows. The

6:04

lawyers announce themselves. And

6:07

the coroner begins. I'd

6:09

especially like to acknowledge Marion's

6:11

daughter Sally Leiden, Marion's son-in-law

6:13

Chris Leiden and her grandchildren.

6:15

My thoughts are with you

6:17

today. Once again

6:20

we are using voice actors to represent

6:22

the court's proceedings. Legally we are not

6:24

allowed to publish recordings. The coroner says

6:26

her full findings are very long so

6:29

she'll only read a shorter summary and

6:31

the complete findings will be available when

6:33

she closes the inquest. First

6:37

she revisits the facts. Marion

6:39

Barter was last sighted on June 22nd 1997 by

6:42

her friend

6:45

Leslie Loveday who dropped her

6:47

at a Gold Coast bus depot. Unbeknownst

6:50

to her family she had changed

6:52

her name by Deepole to

6:55

Floribella Natalia Marion Remickel

6:58

and a passport was issued in that name

7:00

on May 20 1997. The passport was recorded

7:03

as departing Brisbane

7:07

Airport on June 22nd and

7:10

returning on August 2nd 1997. Marion's last recorded contact

7:16

was a phone call to Sally

7:18

on August 1st and she gave

7:20

no indication she intended to return

7:22

to Australia the following day. Sally

7:26

made a missing persons report to

7:28

Byron Bay Police on October 22nd

7:30

1997 after

7:33

receiving information that significant funds had

7:35

been withdrawn from her mother's bank

7:37

account in the preceding two months.

7:41

Coroner O'Sullivan then makes clear the

7:44

parameters in which she worked. It's

7:47

important to explain that an inquest

7:49

is not a criminal case. The

7:51

witnesses and agencies involved in an

7:53

inquest are not on trial. It

7:55

is not the role of the

7:57

coroner to attribute blame or to

7:59

punish anyone. one for Marion's disappearance.

8:02

Further, I am not to make

8:04

findings of civil liability and I

8:06

have no power to award compensation

8:08

or damages. Then the

8:11

findings begin. I find

8:13

that Marion, under the name of Flora

8:15

Bella Natalia Marion Remickel, travelled overseas on

8:17

the 22nd of June 1997. I

8:22

find that, consistent with Sally's

8:24

opinion, the handwriting on the

8:26

outgoing passenger card was Marion's,

8:28

except for the words Europe, Luxembourg

8:30

and Es Korea, which were not

8:33

written by Marion. I

8:35

find that Marion deliberately travelled overseas using

8:37

her new name and took steps to

8:39

ensure that no family or close friend

8:42

was aware of the change of her

8:44

identity. I find that

8:46

Marion returned to Australia under the

8:48

name of Flora Bella Natalia Marion

8:50

Remickel on the 2nd of

8:53

August 1997 and took steps to ensure

8:55

that no one was aware of her

8:57

return to the country. I

9:00

find that Marion did not leave Australia again

9:02

after the 2nd of August 1997. Council

9:08

assisting had submitted the court should

9:10

find Marion withdrew a series of

9:12

sums of $500 in August 1997

9:16

and attended the Byron Bay branch of

9:18

the Colonial State Bank and facilitated a

9:20

transfer of $80,000 on 15 October 1997.

9:28

This conflicts with Sally's recollection from her conversation

9:30

with a staff member from the bank back

9:32

in October 1997 that daily withdrawals of $5,000

9:34

were being made. However,

9:38

it's understood the coroner made this finding

9:41

based on the memo to the Salvation

9:43

Army made by Marion's father, John Wilson,

9:46

outlining a series of $500 withdrawals as well

9:49

as evidence provided by bank staff that

9:51

the ATM limit was $500. the

10:00

bank and that she requested

10:02

the transaction that day and told

10:04

the bank teller that she did

10:06

not want her whereabouts revealed. There

10:09

is insufficient evidence however for me

10:11

to be able to make a

10:13

finding about her intentions. The

10:15

coroner makes a lot of findings in

10:17

regards to Bloom but the ones she

10:19

reveals in court adjust the

10:21

pertinent ones. I find

10:23

that the primary motivation for Mr

10:25

Blooms name changes was in order

10:27

to dishonorably represent himself to others

10:29

and that Mr Blooms weak explanation

10:31

and denials and disregard should be

10:33

wholly rejected. On the 10th of

10:36

December 1994 Mr Blooms placed a

10:40

personal advertisement in French in

10:42

Le Courier, Australia under

10:45

the name of M. F. Remickel with

10:47

an address of Lenox Head and

10:49

a telephone number. I

10:51

find that Mr Blooms could not satisfactorily explain

10:53

why he opened and used the

10:55

post office box at Lenox Head

10:58

when he had one in Ballina

11:00

and that the only reasonable explanation for

11:03

the listing of the post office box

11:05

at Lenox Head and the telephone number

11:07

for Ballina coin investments in the advertisements

11:10

was in order for Mr Blooms

11:12

to keep the advertisement and any

11:14

response a secret from his wife

11:16

and family. The coroner finds that

11:18

Blooms evidence in regards to how he met

11:20

up with Marion in 1997 is

11:24

unsatisfactory and contradictory.

11:27

Sally looks impassive and resolute as

11:29

the findings are delivered. Her

11:31

husband Chris and I frequently lock

11:33

eyes, smile and nod as

11:36

Sally is repeatedly vindicated by the coroner

11:38

on many fronts bringing

11:40

long overdue recognition and praise

11:42

for her perseverance. The

11:44

findings about Rick Bloom come

11:47

thick and fast. I find that

11:49

there is a sufficient basis to find

11:51

that Mr Blooms met with Marion on

11:53

at least three occasions between February and

11:55

May 1997 but Mr Blooms evidence is

11:59

too unreliable for any further or

12:02

more particular findings. With

12:04

regard to the coincidence of Marian's

12:06

change of name to Floribella, Natalia,

12:08

Marian Remickel and Mr Blum's

12:10

use of the name, Fernand Nokolas

12:12

Remickel, I find that Marian

12:15

changed her name to Floribella, Natalia, Marian

12:17

Remickel because she was in a relationship

12:19

with Mr Blum and sought to share

12:21

a name with him. She

12:24

also believes that Marian and Blum

12:26

travelled together in England. I

12:29

find that based on the close proximity

12:31

of the dates of travel and Mr

12:33

Blum's admission he travelled to England and

12:36

a tendency and coincidental evidence relating

12:38

to a number of other vulnerable

12:40

women, that Marian and Mr

12:42

Blum travelled together in England as a

12:44

couple in a relationship for at least

12:46

some period of the time when Marian

12:48

was in England in 1997. Although

12:52

where they travelled together, the coroner

12:54

could not definitively say, There

12:56

is insufficient evidence for me to find

12:58

that Mr Blum actually travelled to Tunbridge

13:00

Wells with Marian in June or July

13:02

1997. Whilst

13:05

I have found that Marian and

13:07

Mr Blum travelled together in England

13:09

for at least some period, there

13:11

is insufficient evidence for me to

13:13

find that Mr Blum actually travelled

13:15

to Rye, Hastings and Alfordston with

13:17

Marian in June or July 1997.

13:21

The state coroner also finds that the note

13:23

paper Marian used to write a letter to

13:25

Sally between the 22nd and 30th of June

13:27

1997 was taken by Mr Blum from the

13:29

Niko Narita Hotel in

13:35

Japan. I find that Mr

13:37

Blum travelled to Japan at the relevant

13:40

time and stayed at the hotel, obtained

13:42

the note paper and gave it to

13:44

Marian in England. And the

13:47

reason Luxembourg was written on Marian's passenger

13:49

card? With regard to the

13:51

coincidence of Marian's purported residence as

13:54

Luxembourg and Mr Blum's close association

13:56

with Luxembourg, I find that Mr

13:58

Blum representing himself as Fernand

14:00

Remichel suggested to Marion that they

14:03

start a new life together in

14:05

Luxembourg. And as for

14:07

any connection between Bloom and the

14:09

large withdrawals from Marion's bank account?

14:12

With regard to the coincidence of Mr Bloom's

14:14

application for a safety deposit envelope in October

14:16

1997, a day before Marion transferred $80,000 from

14:19

her account, I find that there is

14:25

a sufficient factual basis to make a

14:27

finding that Marion withdrew the sums of

14:29

money from August 1997 and transferred $80,000

14:31

to an unknown account in October 1997

14:34

on the encouragement of

14:42

Mr Bloom and in circumstances

14:44

where Marion believed she was in a

14:46

relationship with him. However, there

14:49

is not enough evidence for finding

14:51

to the requisite standard as

14:53

to whether and when Mr Bloom

14:55

actually received some or all of

14:57

Marion's money. With regard

15:00

to the evidence of the use of

15:02

Marion's money to start a school overseas,

15:04

while certainly conceivable, such a

15:06

finding is not supported by the evidence.

15:10

With regard to the evidence of

15:12

Mr Bloom's dishonest relationships with vulnerable

15:14

women, I find that the

15:16

evidence of Jeanette Gaffney Bowen, Janet

15:19

Oldenburg, Quelaine Dubois-Danlos,

15:22

Andre Flum, and demonstrates

15:26

a tendency on the part of

15:29

Mr Bloom to misrepresent himself to

15:31

single vulnerable women for financial gain,

15:34

and further I find that Mr

15:36

Bloom had a tendency to exploit

15:38

vulnerable women. I

15:41

also find that Mr

15:43

Bloom exploited Marion in

15:45

1997 in the manner

15:47

in which he later exploited other women

15:49

who gave evidence in these proceedings. I

15:52

make this finding despite Mr Bloom's

15:54

denials in this regard, and

15:57

notwithstanding that the relationships

16:00

remained alive and well.

16:03

I find that Mr Blum entered

16:05

into a relationship with Marian in

16:08

1997 and encouraged her to

16:10

start a new life with him.

16:13

To this end Marian changed her

16:16

name, spent some time with Mr

16:18

Blum in England and on

16:20

return to Australia represented herself as

16:22

married to Mr Blum and demonstrated

16:25

an intention to start a new

16:27

life in Luxembourg with him. Mr

16:29

Blum travelled to England

16:31

to spend time with Marian when

16:33

he clearly did not intend to

16:36

pursue the relationship because he was

16:38

married with children and lived in

16:40

Wallingbar in New South Wales. Coronaro

16:42

Sullivan notes that she's made written

16:44

findings in regards to the evidence of

16:46

Jeanette Gaffney Bowen, Janet Oldenburg,

16:49

Jelaine Dubois-Dinlouis, Andre

16:52

Flomme and the woman we've always

16:54

referred to as Charlotte. She does

16:56

not read those findings out in court but does

16:58

say she accepts the evidence of

17:00

all four women before then

17:02

returning her attention back to bloom. Mr

17:05

Blum's evidence is of great importance

17:07

in these proceedings. It

17:10

is necessary for the court to

17:12

assess his credibility. In

17:14

short I do not accept as

17:16

accurate anything that Mr

17:19

Blum has said in evidence

17:21

in the absence of independent

17:23

corroborating evidence. I find

17:25

that Mr Blum whilst in an intimate

17:27

relationship with Marian persuaded or

17:30

otherwise encouraged her to sell

17:32

her house in 1997. The

17:35

evidence is not sufficient to prove

17:37

that Mr Blum played any causative

17:39

role in Marian's decision to resign

17:42

from her employment. With regard to

17:44

the role of Mr Blum in the storage

17:46

of Marian's tea chests at his house I

17:49

find that there is a sufficient

17:51

factual basis for me to make

17:53

a finding that Marian agreed with

17:56

a proposal by Mr Blum for

17:58

him to take possession. of

18:00

some of her belongings before he travelled to

18:02

Europe. I make this

18:05

finding based on the stark

18:07

similarities with the evidence of

18:09

Ms Dubois-D'Andlois that in 2006

18:12

Mr Blum suggested and facilitated the

18:14

packing and purported shipping of cranks

18:16

of her possessions to Australia. However

18:20

I find Mr Blum's account of the

18:22

storage of three or four tea chests

18:24

and the existence of an unknown man

18:27

in uniform who was planning to travel

18:29

with Marion is implausible. With

18:31

regard to whether Mr Blum played

18:33

any role in Marion's life after

18:35

she returned to Australia, there

18:38

is a sufficient basis for me

18:40

to make a finding that Mr

18:42

Blum was in communication with Marion

18:45

and played some role in her

18:47

life following her return to Australia

18:50

in August 1997. Mr

18:53

Blum's evidence in the final days of

18:56

the inquest when asked by council assisting

18:58

would you like to say anything further

19:00

in relation to the disappearance of Marion

19:02

Barta was extraordinary.

19:07

You might recall on the eve of

19:09

the last day of getting evidence Mr

19:12

Blum suddenly volunteered a conversation he claims

19:14

he had with Marion the last time

19:16

he saw her before she travelled overseas.

19:19

He said she told him she no longer

19:21

wanted anything to do with her family

19:23

and was cutting off all contact. It

19:27

was the first time he had made

19:29

that claim. He never once told

19:32

it to police, lawyers or

19:34

the coroner in the previous two years.

19:37

It was a stunning turn of events and

19:40

one that clearly impacted heavily on

19:42

coroner Teresa O'Sullivan. This

19:45

evidence along with his lies and

19:47

deception throughout the inquest has convinced

19:49

me that he does indeed know

19:51

more than he is saying. I

19:54

make the following further findings regarding

19:56

Mr Blum. Firstly that

19:59

he has further knowledge about

20:01

the circumstances of Marian's travel

20:03

overseas. Secondly, that

20:05

he has further knowledge of his relationship

20:08

with her in the months prior to

20:10

her disappearance. Thirdly,

20:12

he has further knowledge of

20:14

her circumstances following her return

20:16

from overseas. Fourthly,

20:18

that he has further knowledge of

20:21

the withdrawals and transfer of her

20:23

money. And finally,

20:25

that there is a sufficient basis for

20:27

a finding that he was and

20:30

is deliberately unwilling to divulge

20:32

this further knowledge to the court.

20:35

Theresa O'Sullivan then focuses on

20:37

New South Wales Police. Having

20:40

considered all the evidence tended in the

20:42

submissions made, I find that the nature

20:44

and adequacy of the police investigation into

20:46

the disappearance of Marian by New South

20:48

Wales Police between her disappearance in 1997

20:50

up until 2019 was not adequate. It

20:57

is clear from the evidence that following the

21:00

initial report made by Sally to Byron Bay

21:02

Police Station on the 22nd of October 1997

21:04

that very little was done to investigate Marian's

21:09

whereabouts until approximately 10 years later

21:11

in 2007. I

21:15

find that the police investigation into the disappearance of

21:17

Marian by New South Wales Police from the report

21:19

on the 22nd of October 1997 up until 2007

21:22

was not conducted in an appropriate

21:28

and timely manner and not consistent

21:31

with the relevant policy enforced within

21:33

New South Wales Police at the

21:35

time. I find

21:37

that Detective Senior Constable Sheehan

21:39

should not have reclassified Marian

21:41

as located in 2011. responsible

22:00

Graham Childs should not have

22:02

classified Sally's report made on the 22nd

22:05

of October 1997 of

22:07

her mother being missing as an

22:09

occurrence only event. 2.

22:12

That Graham Childs was unaware of

22:15

the definition of a missing person

22:17

in Commissioner's instruction and that he

22:19

classified the report as an occurrence

22:21

only based on his own

22:23

subjective view of the sense of urgency.

22:28

3. That it was unsatisfactory

22:31

and inappropriate for Graham Childs

22:33

not to have reclassified the

22:35

event from an occurrence only

22:37

to an active investigation. 4.

22:42

That as a result of failures

22:44

at the first reporting of Maryam

22:46

Bartas' disappearance, her case was not

22:48

investigated for almost 10 years

22:51

until 2007 and that

22:53

led to the unavailability of

22:56

crucial evidence. 5.

23:00

That Maryam Bartas was listed as a

23:02

missing person for the first time on the

23:04

6th of July 2007

23:07

by Senior Constable Joanne Williams as

23:09

a result of being contacted

23:11

by Rebecca Cops of the

23:13

Australian Federal Police Missing Persons

23:15

Unit. 6.

23:18

That Detective Senior Constable Gary

23:20

Sheehan's decision to recommend that

23:22

Maryam Bartas be removed from

23:24

the Missing Persons Register on the

23:26

22nd of September 2011 was incorrect

23:31

and Maryam should not have been classified

23:33

as located in 2011. The

23:41

coroner agrees that there should be

23:43

no suggestion that Sally in any

23:45

way delayed the investigation by New

23:47

South Wales Police or

23:49

behaved in a manner that can

23:51

be described as anything other than

23:53

understandable and consistent with a daughter

23:56

very confused and anxious at

23:59

finding out about her. her mother's circumstances.

24:02

Teresa O'Sullivan also notes that

24:04

the resistance in this inquest

24:06

by NSW Police to

24:08

accept the inadequacies of the initial

24:10

police investigation is difficult

24:13

to understand, especially given the

24:15

very clear evidence of

24:17

Detective Chief Inspector Brown about

24:19

what should have happened in 1997. Finally,

24:25

the formal findings. What

24:27

does the coroner believe happened to

24:29

Marion Barter? As

24:34

a result of having considered all of

24:36

the documentary evidence, the oral

24:38

evidence given at the inquest and

24:40

submissions, I find on

24:42

the balance of probabilities that

24:45

Floribella Natalia Marion Remickel, formerly

24:48

known as Marion Barter, is

24:50

deceased. While

24:52

I am unable to determine the exact date

24:54

of death, I find that

24:57

Marion is likely to have died on a

24:59

date after the 15th of October 1997. I

25:03

am unable to determine the place of Marion's

25:06

death. I am unable to

25:08

determine the cause of Marion's death. I

25:10

am unable to determine the manner

25:12

of Marion's death. Marion's

25:15

remains have not been found, and

25:18

the available evidence does not allow me

25:20

to make findings as to the possible

25:22

cause and manner of Marion's death. However,

25:26

the circumstances surrounding Marion's

25:28

disappearance are troubling. Accordingly,

25:32

I make the following

25:34

recommendation to the NSW Commissioner

25:36

of Police. I

25:39

recommend that the NSW Commissioner

25:41

of Police cause the investigation

25:43

into the death of his

25:45

missing person Floribella Natalia Marion

25:47

Remickel, formerly known as Marion

25:50

Barter, to be referred or

25:52

to remain within the State Crime Command

25:55

Unsolved Homicide Team for ongoing investigation,

25:57

review and review of the crime.

26:00

monitoring. The

26:02

family submitted that the court should formally

26:05

refer Mr. Blum to the Director of

26:07

Public Prosecutions or the Attorney

26:09

General to consider charges of either

26:11

perjury or making a false statement.

26:14

I am of the view

26:16

that any referral of Mr.

26:18

Blum to the Director of

26:20

Public Prosecutions or the Attorney

26:22

General to consider charges of

26:24

perjury or false statements on

26:26

oath is a matter both

26:28

left for the police investigators

26:31

particularly considering the investigation has

26:33

not concluded. The coroner emphasizes that

26:35

the $500,000 reward

26:38

for information leading to the arrest and

26:40

conviction of any person or persons

26:42

responsible for Marion's disappearance still

26:45

stands. I strongly encourage

26:47

any member of the public

26:49

who has any information relating

26:51

to the disappearance of Marion

26:53

Barter or information relating to

26:55

Floribella Natalia Marion Remickel to

26:57

come forward and to share

26:59

that information with New South

27:01

Wales Police. She

27:04

also confirms that a DNA profile

27:06

from a sample provided by Sally

27:08

Laidon has been uploaded to the

27:11

New South Wales and national

27:13

DNA databases for continuous searching

27:15

against any unidentified human remains.

27:19

In closing, coroner O'Sullivan commends

27:22

the legal representatives especially the

27:24

council assisting team Adam

27:27

Pustleton, Tracy Stevens and

27:29

Clara Patoki. She

27:31

expresses gratitude to the work

27:33

carried out by New South

27:35

Wales police detectives Inspector Nigel

27:37

Warren, Sergeant Sasha Pernatsa and

27:40

Senior Constable Lisa Passoto and

27:43

has a special message for Sally

27:45

Laidon. I'd

27:48

like to acknowledge and commend Sally

27:50

on her unwavering commitment and participation

27:52

in the Coroniel investigation and inquest

27:54

to find out what happened to

27:56

her mother. She has

27:58

shown fortitude, dignity resilience and

28:01

grace throughout these proceedings. I

28:04

express my sympathy and

28:06

condolences to Sally, Chris,

28:08

Bronwyn, Deirdre, Lee, Marion's

28:10

grandchildren, Marion's family, friends

28:12

and loved ones, and

28:14

the many people that Marion touched in her

28:16

life. I would like

28:19

to again acknowledge that the experience

28:21

of grief for the family of

28:23

a missing person is complex and

28:25

difficult, and there remain

28:27

many unanswered questions. Finally,

28:30

I'd like to conclude by

28:32

acknowledging and recognizing the person

28:34

that Marion was to her

28:36

family, friends and loved ones.

28:39

Witnesses who provided statements and evidence

28:42

at the inquest described Marion as

28:44

a loving and caring person who

28:46

had a fondness for antiques and

28:48

the arts, who could easily

28:50

make friends and was also a gifted

28:53

teacher. It is

28:55

fitting to end with the words shared by

28:57

Sally to the court reading from the family's

28:59

statement, in which she described

29:01

Marion as a kind, caring

29:03

soul with a wicked laugh. She

29:06

was intelligent, she was cultured, and

29:08

she had so many friends who loved and

29:10

miss her still. She would

29:13

always bring you flowers or a cake. She

29:15

was a very generous human. I close

29:20

this inquest. This

29:27

is both wonderful and frustrating for

29:29

the Lady Vanishes team. On

29:32

the one hand, the coroner has referred

29:34

Marion's death to the New

29:36

South Wales Police to be investigated

29:38

as an unsolved homicide, but

29:41

she stopped short of referring any

29:43

person to the Director of Public

29:45

Prosecutions, the DPP, to

29:47

consider laying criminal charges. There

29:50

are, however, serious findings about Mr

29:52

Rick Bloom. It's

29:54

a lot to take in, and Sally confers

29:57

with the Channel 7 lawyers who have been

29:59

with her throughout. the two and a half

30:01

year long in Quest. Outside

30:03

her supporters are digesting what they've just

30:06

heard. I'm glad with what we heard

30:08

obviously today it could have

30:10

been a bit more for our best hopes but

30:13

I think a lot Sally's really been vindicated with

30:15

what she how

30:18

she's handled herself through all these years and

30:21

I just hope that the police pursue it to

30:23

their full capabilities and someone

30:26

gets charged with something. What was

30:28

your name? My name is Terry

30:30

from Sydney. You're Lucy? Lucy from

30:32

Sydney too. How did you

30:35

hear about this

30:37

case? I'm a podcast listener.

30:39

I like all kinds of podcasts. When

30:42

I started in 2019, oh

30:44

my god, like so fascinating

30:47

and intriguing. Never miss an

30:49

episode and repeat

30:52

like again again again. This is

30:54

the best. I really am

30:56

again. I listen so

30:58

much about this

31:01

one. Thank you that's very sweet and it's such

31:03

a unique case. I mean I've been in this

31:05

for 30 years. I've never investigated a case

31:08

like this. I can't think of one like

31:10

it ever in a place. Sally

31:12

and Chris finally emerge from the

31:15

coroner's court and television news cameras

31:17

follow them. We catch up

31:19

with them and about 40 supporters at

31:21

a nearby park where Sally is interviewed

31:23

for seven years. Well

31:29

I didn't bring them. They came. They came and

31:31

I put out the call and said would you

31:33

come and wear some green as some support for

31:35

my mum and it's been

31:38

amazing. These humans and

31:40

the many more millions that are following who

31:42

can't be here today are really you know

31:45

passionate about me finding out what's happened to

31:47

mum and I'm really grateful for that because without

31:49

their support I don't think I'd be able to do

31:52

what we've achieved and where we're at today. So

31:54

I'm really grateful and thank you. Today's

31:56

the time to leave for a really long day. your

32:00

mum. How do you feel today? How

32:04

do I feel? I don't actually know. I've

32:06

got an adrenaline going still. Coronas

32:08

just told me officially my mum's deceased.

32:12

It's the first time I've heard that in 27 years

32:14

which is a long time as you can appreciate it's

32:16

hard enough when someone does die but to

32:19

not have them in your world for such a long time and not

32:21

know and then get to the point where

32:23

you find out that

32:25

they have died and we

32:27

now need to move to the next stage of what

32:30

that involves for me. Yeah

32:42

we don't use the word closure at all

32:44

in the world of the missing anymore. We

32:46

refer to it as ambiguous loss because

32:49

we know that something has happened but we

32:51

don't know how, the where, the what, the

32:53

why. So we like to refer it to it

32:55

as ambiguity and that's

32:57

actually a huge trauma actually for people

32:59

to deal with who

33:01

live with that and I

33:04

think that there's a point of resolution today with

33:06

the coroner telling me and you know I appreciated

33:09

that she looked me in the eye as she

33:11

was giving a lot of her hand in downs

33:13

and I know that

33:15

you know she cares about my mum and

33:17

that she wanted to do her best and

33:19

I'm really grateful for the effort. It's been

33:22

nearly three years of inquest so it's been

33:24

mammoth and it's been a

33:26

huge task to undertake for myself personally and my

33:28

family as well. She made some

33:30

pretty scathing findings for the woman in

33:32

the film. What did you make of

33:34

those? Well

33:36

I was glad to hear it come from her you know we've

33:39

been waiting for a long time to hear what her

33:41

opinion was on the situation and

33:43

I think we've all got our own opinions on the situation

33:45

and it was just nice to hear it from her

33:47

in her role as a New South Wales neckliner. I'm

33:51

just so short of recommending that police may charge

33:53

her the game of being a mum's kid. How

33:56

do you feel? Look,

33:58

it was... kind of expected

34:00

from my point of view. I knew

34:03

in my heart that I would have

34:05

to fight harder and longer to get

34:07

the answers to what's actually happened. So

34:09

I'm prepared for the fight. I've haven't

34:12

given up yet. I don't know what keeps

34:14

me going, but I'll probably need a breather

34:16

from this. And then we

34:19

have some pretty big plans to keep on keeping

34:21

on because we know the answers are out there

34:23

and I'm certainly not one person to give up.

34:25

I should clarify that I probably don't have a

34:27

break. I'm doing four live shows

34:29

with Alison and Brian Seymour

34:33

from Channel 7 and we're doing those.

34:35

They start on the Gold Coast where Mum

34:37

actually went missing on the 10th of March.

34:40

And then we've got two shows in Brisbane

34:43

consecutive days and then one down here in Sydney at

34:46

Randwick. They're a fundraiser that we've put

34:48

together with the funds helping Joanie Condos,

34:51

who's been an instrumental person

34:53

in helping me gather information on my Mum's

34:55

case. We're heading overseas together

34:57

ourselves later in the year. I

35:00

obviously needed a death certificate to be able to access

35:03

information about my Mum because privacy has been

35:05

one of the massive hurdles I've had to

35:08

deal with over the years where I can't

35:10

gather any information without that. So as

35:13

sad as it is and bittersweet as it is

35:15

to have the death certificate is really a big part

35:17

of the story. When does it stop? Is that when

35:19

you see charges laid or is

35:21

that when you have a more detailed understanding of

35:24

what happened to your Mum? I

35:26

would like to see justice served and

35:28

there's certain elements of that

35:30

that need to be

35:32

looked into. There's certain people

35:35

that I've contacted recently

35:37

like the AFP, Peter

35:40

Dutton's office, where things

35:43

like the citizenship application that Rithblum

35:45

applied for that

35:47

needs investigation from a higher person

35:49

than myself. And I've been told by all

35:51

of those people and I'm not just singling

35:53

out those two but they've all said

35:55

to me oh we need to wait for the inquest to finish

35:58

so the inquest is finished. So let's

36:01

start action on those sorts of things that

36:03

we know for fact and are in the

36:06

brief of evidence and publicly available documents for

36:08

anybody to see. So I really would encourage

36:11

that to happen. And I'd also like to do a

36:14

call out if I can to the New

36:17

South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb. I'd really

36:19

like to see my mum's case garner

36:21

a million dollars in a

36:24

reward for any information about

36:26

her disappearance and her death. So

36:28

I really, I think everyone

36:30

would agree with me that that's deserving. She's

36:33

been missing for 27 years and

36:36

someone knows something. So we need to put

36:38

it out there for them to come forward.

36:40

The reporter asks Sally about me and

36:42

Alison as we're both standing right there.

36:45

We've worked together for five years now. You know,

36:48

I was only saying to Chris last night sitting

36:50

at the hotel and I said, I

36:52

asked you five years ago if you

36:54

could give me six months to

36:56

do after I've met Alison. I said, can I have six

36:58

months to try and find mum? And he goes, and I

37:01

was at the table with all the kids as well and

37:03

they all said, yes, that's fine. Five

37:05

years later, we're here. So

37:07

for anybody who's questioning it, it's

37:10

a very long, arduous journey. It's

37:12

not easy. It's very stressful. And

37:14

as I've said, you know, without people

37:17

and humans in your circle, it's

37:19

very hard to manage. So

37:21

I'm really grateful for that. If someone is missing,

37:23

particularly a woman and that woman

37:25

has children and a family, please

37:28

do not say it's not suspicious. You

37:30

should start it suspicious and work your way

37:32

back. If you find them in 24 hours

37:34

or pat on the back, that's great. But

37:36

don't come in 10 days later and go,

37:38

oh, it's suspicious now because it was suspicious

37:40

to begin with. And we actually need more

37:42

action taken at those high level entry levels

37:44

and when someone goes missing. And particularly if

37:46

a family member is saying something's wrong, like

37:48

I did, you know, that

37:51

is where I'm at right now because they didn't

37:53

take me seriously back then. And

37:55

you know, I think the coroner gave some pretty scathing replies

37:58

to the New South Wales how

38:00

they handled the case, they didn't follow procedure. They

38:03

did things like what marked my mum as

38:05

located when she had not been.

38:07

And that's something that has been very upsetting

38:09

for me and it runs through your blood.

38:11

It's very, very hard to swallow. And

38:15

I haven't even had an apology if I

38:17

can put it out there. You know,

38:20

I still haven't from the police had

38:22

any apology for how I've been treated.

38:25

You probably, if you've all watched the inquest,

38:28

I was treated pretty harshly as well. And

38:30

the coroner recognized that as well in

38:33

her findings today. It has been

38:35

a hard journey and I'm happy to be here and I'm happy

38:37

to have so many people wearing

38:39

green for my mum today. So yeah, bittersweet

38:42

day. Can you tell us about your mum? My

38:46

mum. Well,

38:49

my mum was, we're very different

38:51

humans. I always used

38:53

to joke and say, I like top 40 and she

38:55

likes bark. But

38:57

we got on quite well as

39:00

a mother-daughter. She was

39:02

a busy mum. She was a single mum for most of our

39:04

life. And obviously I'd like to mention my

39:06

brother too. He's not here today. And,

39:10

you know, he took his own life

39:12

because the police told us that my

39:14

mum didn't want us

39:17

in her world anymore. And that's

39:19

had huge ramifications for me and

39:22

my dad and my family. But

39:24

I speak for him today as well.

39:26

But my mum loves us

39:28

both. She treated us well. She fed us

39:30

well. We always dress beautifully as kids. And

39:34

she was an intelligent award-winning

39:36

school teacher. She had just won the

39:39

best teacher in Queensland and was awarded

39:41

that in November of 96 by

39:43

Ida Butrow, who she adored. And

39:47

that, if you put the timeline into

39:49

that, she was gone and done out

39:52

of this peripheral in June

39:54

the following year. So there's

39:56

some things gone on there and the timeline is

39:58

really important to getting the answer. but

40:00

yeah I miss my mum. It's hard not

40:02

having a mum to talk to, it's hard

40:05

not having her as

40:07

a friend, especially when you're having babies and things

40:09

like that as well and yeah I

40:11

miss her. I hope so. I hope she'd,

40:13

I think she'd be going

40:17

good on yourself, like she would always

40:20

sort of just give me a pat on

40:22

the back. I'm a bit of a go-getter

40:24

and I do things not by

40:27

halves and she's knowing that about me and I

40:29

think she'd be proud of the fact that I'm fighting

40:31

for her and I'm giving her a voice because unfortunately

40:34

when someone does go missing it

40:36

falls back to those people in her family

40:38

or when you're at their family to be

40:40

the voice and that's hard

40:42

so yeah I just miss her. Now

40:45

Alison asks Sally a few more questions. Five

40:47

years ago you didn't know what had happened

40:49

to your mum. Do you feel like you

40:51

know now? I definitely

40:53

have a better understanding. I mean

40:55

obviously you know even the coroner

40:57

can't tell us where, when, how, why but

41:00

I know she's deceased and you know

41:02

I the coroner has firmly had

41:05

just sent it Mr Blum with my mum

41:07

when she came back to Australia and I

41:09

think that was a pretty big call from

41:11

her and one

41:14

that's important in the case so I

41:16

hope, yeah I hope that's

41:18

at least, when I look into that a little bit

41:20

further. Well

41:22

you don't know the manner of it yet. I

41:25

think you know I know you've said before you have

41:27

it. I'm not trying to understand. Do

41:30

you feel as though justice

41:33

can be done in this sort of way? Well

41:36

I certainly hope so. You know I can't

41:40

answer that because I'm always gagged by other people

41:42

and what they say and what they want to

41:44

do so if people want to take it on

41:46

board and actually work on it

41:49

and do something who can that would

41:51

be amazing and you know it's always

41:53

a possibility that we can find the

41:55

truth. Yes and look they, the detectives

41:57

on the case of recent times you

41:59

know they're supportive, they're caring, they've told

42:01

me that they're here for me if

42:03

I need anything but it

42:05

is hard as a daughter to take it all on and have to do a

42:08

lot of it yourself because they're

42:10

busy doing other things so it does make

42:13

it extremely exhausting but I'm happy to

42:16

be able to do it and happy to help. I've

42:18

always given everybody everything because I just want the answers

42:21

so I'll just have to continue down that route.

42:25

Sally and her supporters gather for a

42:27

group photo then Brian and Sally talk

42:29

about some of the specific findings. I

42:31

was watching you when the coroner was

42:33

giving your findings, you were pretty stoic,

42:35

you didn't show much emotion but I'm

42:37

guessing it was boiling away inside. It

42:40

was boiling, there was a few tears

42:42

like just welling but I just wanted to try

42:44

and keep

42:47

it together, it's important that you do that.

42:49

I cried. I

42:52

looked at you once and then I got distracted.

42:54

I was like I need to look back at the

42:56

coroner, I missed what she said. It was

42:58

good she looked at you, she made eye

43:00

contact. She did often, she looked at me at a

43:02

lot of points and I have a lot of time for her.

43:04

She's obviously thought long and

43:07

hard about the decisions and what an

43:09

evidence since it's before her and I'm

43:11

really grateful for the opportunity because obviously

43:14

I was even fighting if you think back

43:16

to when we first started, when I wrote to the

43:19

coroner, I had Gary Sheehan telling me that it's not

43:21

a New South Wales case, it's a Queensland case and

43:23

it should be referred to Queensland and he just didn't

43:25

warn a bar of us so that was quite

43:27

momentous to get to that point even

43:30

if just having an inquest and who would have thought

43:32

it would take three years to get here. Exhausting,

43:37

but it's good to have her verbalise

43:39

it to me and I can sit down and process that

43:41

now and work out what the next step is. In

43:44

particular just a couple of the key

43:46

findings, obviously she found that your mum

43:48

has passed away, she also found that

43:51

Rick Bloom had a relationship with your mum and

43:53

lured her with the promise of a new life

43:55

overseas. That's an official finding, that's a huge vindication.

43:58

Yeah, well we knew that right? We

44:00

put it all together, he and I got

44:02

on a plane and went to Luxembourg together

44:04

to go and source the answers before any

44:06

of that even happened. So, you

44:08

know, I think just hearing it

44:10

from someone at an official

44:12

level is important. And

44:15

that the police didn't do their job at the start

44:17

and that your mum could have

44:19

been found if they'd done their job properly. I mean, there's a

44:21

chance she could have been found. Yeah,

44:23

well, I'm still stuck on a bit of

44:25

the whole situation

44:27

with his citizenship application. You know, because

44:30

that reality is if the

44:32

police and immigration had actually

44:34

done their job back in

44:37

1976, he might

44:40

not have actually been allowed to enter Australia.

44:43

And then that's a whole other ball game, whole

44:45

not story really. Yeah. And

44:47

just the finding that Gary Sheehan, you know,

44:49

obviously announced your mum had been located, took

44:51

her off the missing persons register. It's just

44:53

an arbitrary, totally unwarranted act. I mean, it

44:55

just makes me insane with rage. I think

44:57

that that could have happened. Good

45:00

to hear the coroner today confirmed that that was just flat out

45:02

wrong. Yeah. And I've always been over what

45:04

you've seen me with him. I always tried to

45:06

be so nice and kind and giving and of

45:08

information. And he's a nice guy. He's a nice

45:10

guy, but he made an error. Like that was

45:12

an error. You don't list someone is located when

45:15

you have never cited them or seen them. Yeah. And,

45:18

you know, and the fact is there's another

45:20

element of that where they didn't follow protocol.

45:22

So the missing persons unit are not authorized

45:25

to be able to mark

45:28

someone as located. It has to come from the

45:31

local police, which is Gary Sheehan, but he sort

45:33

of pushed it onto them. They made the call

45:35

for even that in itself is not by

45:37

the book. And that's that

45:40

was really hard to me. I remember that that

45:42

phone call so well and I

45:44

could not fathom that they would sit there

45:46

and mark her located. And, you know,

45:48

we spoke about it on the podcast where he

45:50

he said to me, you know, oh, well, there's a

45:52

box for missing and there's a box for located. There's

45:54

nothing in the middle. So we have

45:56

to mark her as located because we believe

45:58

that she's that she's. gone missing on her

46:01

own account. And I'm like, no one's

46:03

really looking deep into that. Like

46:06

they're just, it's just the police just say it

46:08

and then I'm expected as a family member to

46:10

just accept it. Well, Gary

46:12

also said he'd checked, told me when I

46:14

interviewed him that he'd checked the Queensland Department

46:17

of Transport and that license was

46:19

sitting there since 1988. Correct. In

46:21

that name, he could have located Rick Blum

46:23

there. Very frustrating. All the fact

46:25

that they were looking for a doctor

46:27

thing raft and not an optometrist. Like if

46:30

they'd actually found that information when it was noted,

46:32

there's a very good chance the records would have

46:34

still been held. And we had Dean Evans, who

46:36

was the optometrist on the stand at the inquest.

46:39

And he said that she would have filled out

46:41

a new patient card and that would have had

46:43

an address on it, maybe a

46:45

phone number. And that that would have been a

46:47

massive find. And that was lost because they

46:49

were looking for a doctor. The coroner also found that

46:52

Rick Blum lured your mum away

46:55

with the promise of a new life

46:57

that he did convince her to

46:59

withdraw money. She couldn't say that he received

47:01

the money and that

47:03

he knew more than he was telling, that

47:05

he was evidence she dismissed his claims outright

47:07

as a liar and that

47:09

he knows more than he is told. And

47:12

she encouraged the New South Wales police, the

47:14

homicide team, to continue investigating this case. That

47:18

possibly was a little stronger than I thought she might go,

47:20

having sat in many Coroniel inquest findings.

47:23

What was your reaction to hearing that? I

47:25

wish he pretty much just said what I was thinking. I think

47:29

anybody who sat through his evidence would know

47:31

that there's a lot that's been said.

47:33

But yeah, I don't

47:36

know if I believe him much of what

47:38

comes out of his mouth. So I would

47:40

like the police to keep looking. You

47:44

know, Laura Richards has always

47:46

said to me, you know, age should not be a

47:48

reason as to why you don't sort of

47:50

keep asking questions. So yeah,

47:52

I'm just in that holding pattern right now where

47:54

I can't really

47:57

comment on what other people think or say.

48:00

I know what I feel in my heart so

48:02

that's just going to keep me going. I

48:05

just would have liked her to refer it to

48:07

the DPP for further investigation. I think there's more

48:09

to see, you know more to find, more

48:11

to look at, more to investigate

48:13

more than anything. And you heard

48:15

it's the Homicide Squad of the New South Wales Police

48:18

to do exactly that. Do you have faith that they'll

48:20

be able to complete an investigation and maybe lay charges

48:22

against someone? Um I

48:24

don't know. I don't know. We'll have to see. I

48:27

just got told that they're very busy. We'll

48:30

see how that pans

48:32

out. I would hope so.

48:34

I would hope so. They all gave me a nice hug and you

48:37

know wish me well. So I'm hoping that they

48:41

will help

48:44

bring justice for my mum. Just on

48:46

a personal note, it's been just a pleasure to

48:48

meet you. I can remember vividly the first time

48:50

I went to your house in Brisbane. Did that

48:52

interview in November 2018 and

48:55

just how unbelievable even then when

48:57

we knew so little your mum's story was.

49:00

Couldn't imagine where it had gone but you're an

49:02

absolute hero. Not just of all the

49:04

followers around the world but to me as well and everyone involved

49:06

in the case. Good on you for hanging

49:09

in there. Thank you. Congratulations on getting this card. It's

49:11

a huge milestone. I hope you know just how important

49:13

it is to get to this stage. I do. Your

49:16

whole approach and your first

49:18

appearances thing. Yeah. I'm very grateful for the

49:20

opportunity to be able to get to

49:23

the card I think was the, you know, the

49:26

opportunity I was looking at and just a proper

49:29

investigation done because I just really felt for so

49:31

long it wasn't being done properly and I

49:34

feel like I've got to that point. I

49:36

don't know if we're at the end.

49:39

We need to keep moving. I would have liked to be

49:41

at the end so I can just rest. But

49:45

yeah, Joni and I have got a few more things

49:47

that we have to do and we'll share with you

49:49

what we find and what we

49:51

do moving forward. I'll be listening in with

49:53

everyone else. Good on you. All the best. Thanks for

49:55

having me. Bye. Bye. Bye. As

49:58

soon as the findings were published, I was... reached

50:00

out to our criminal behavioural

50:02

analyst Laura Richards, formerly of

50:04

New Scotland Yard. Well I mean

50:06

I think firstly the coroner was very

50:09

respectful in tone to

50:11

Sally and paid tribute to her.

50:13

So I think that the turban

50:16

felt very respectful, her paying tribute

50:19

to Sally's non-stop

50:22

questioning and

50:24

also humanising Marion. I thought that

50:26

was a very important part of

50:28

the proceedings. I

50:30

wish other people would do that

50:33

when talking about you know

50:35

cases with loved ones. I think

50:38

that there was a lot of

50:40

information to process and I was

50:42

furiously writing down everything

50:44

she said and it's 168 pages

50:47

of her ruling. So I tried

50:50

to as she said the headlines,

50:52

the pertinent points for her and

50:54

I've tried to summarise them to

50:56

make sense of myself but I

50:59

think the significance things

51:01

were that she acknowledged

51:04

that Rick Blum was in a

51:06

relationship with Marion and that

51:09

relationship because Rick Blum was saying well it

51:11

was just sex, I think it was

51:14

an important acknowledgement in her

51:16

findings and that

51:18

the note paper that was

51:21

used that Marion

51:23

used to write to Sally, the Hotel

51:26

Niko in the Rita Japan note paper

51:28

that was used, she acknowledged that

51:30

in her findings that she believed

51:33

that Rick Blum gave that to

51:35

Marion. So that's

51:37

important and the third part of that

51:40

was that they were in England together

51:43

and she tended to go for the

51:45

broad brush, pertinent

51:49

findings like travelling to England

51:51

together but not being specific

51:54

about everywhere they travelled, i.e.

51:56

she said that she

51:58

can't say whether they're in Tunbridge well. and

52:00

whether they traveled on to Brighton and Rye

52:02

and so forth together. But

52:06

she also talked about the money, which

52:08

I thought was significant, the money that

52:10

Rickblum encouraged her to

52:12

transfer that money. So again,

52:15

traveling to England and traveling

52:18

back to Australia, then being

52:20

together, that's significant, but also

52:22

encouraging Rickblum, encouraging Marion

52:24

to transfer the money. And she

52:27

didn't go further than that, and I thought

52:31

that that was interesting because

52:34

there's no money

52:36

trail to say that it left Marion's account

52:38

and it went to the physical

52:42

safety envelope account of Rickblum, but she

52:45

did pass comment on the timings of

52:48

that money transfer and him opening

52:50

the safety envelope. She

52:52

acknowledged the other women and that was a

52:55

very important finding that she

52:57

found them credible. Jeanette

52:59

and Ghislaine and the women that you

53:01

found through the Lady Lee Vanishes, that

53:04

Rickblum exploited them and that they were

53:06

credible. And I think that's very important

53:08

for them to hear and

53:11

that he also exploited Marion

53:14

and she believed that that's what happened.

53:16

So she

53:18

said that she believed that he

53:21

had no intention of a future with Marion because when

53:24

they traveled back to Australia, he was married and

53:27

had children. But she didn't take it

53:31

to the next stage, which I'll come

53:33

back to, but she did acknowledge that

53:35

what Rickblum said,

53:38

that he was an important witness, but she

53:40

could not find him credible. And the

53:42

tea chest explanation,

53:44

for example, she believes that the tea

53:47

chest where Marion

53:49

was asked to store things and

53:52

when he talked to the tea chest being

53:54

at his, she believed that that did happen

53:56

because of that happening in other cases with

53:58

the tea chest. So she

54:00

clearly was drawing from the other women

54:02

and mapping it across to Marianne's case.

54:06

But what she found implausible was

54:08

Rick Bloom's explanation that she went

54:10

with this mystery man with

54:12

the teacher somewhere. So she

54:14

was dismissing him putting

54:17

other people into the

54:20

timeline and distancing

54:22

himself. And I thought

54:24

that that was interesting and significant. And the

54:27

last plot parts regarding Rick Bloom, and there

54:29

are other bits, but just from the top

54:31

of my head from having processed it just

54:34

an hour or so ago, she did say

54:36

that she felt he knew more than what

54:38

he's saying. And that

54:41

he had knowledge of much

54:44

more about the overseas trip. He

54:46

had knowledge of Marianne and

54:49

events prior to her disappearing.

54:51

That he had knowledge of Marianne and

54:54

her returning and what happened thereafter

54:56

once they returned to Australia. And

54:59

he acknowledged about the money

55:01

transfer, but that he

55:03

refused to pass that information

55:05

onto the court. And

55:08

I think that that's significant that she's saying

55:10

that he knows more. And if

55:13

he were completely innocent, what she's not

55:15

saying in the subtext was if he

55:18

were completely innocent, he would have no

55:20

reason to hide this information

55:22

from the court. Because it

55:24

is a coroner's inquest. And as she laid

55:26

out, she cannot talk about

55:29

criminal offenses. She cannot push for anything

55:31

in terms of civil remedy. It is

55:33

a fact finding inquest.

55:37

So she found Rick Bloom not

55:39

credible. And ostensibly,

55:42

he knows more and he's

55:44

lying through the omission of

55:46

information. And

55:48

I thought it was also interesting what she

55:50

said about the police investigation by New South

55:52

Wales police. And it does interlink because what

55:55

she said was that it wasn't adequate from

55:57

the time that Marianne was reported missing by

55:59

the court. Sally and she

56:01

went through each of the points of

56:03

each officer really failing Sally

56:07

and they didn't investigate for ten

56:09

years and because of that there's

56:11

a limited amount of information and

56:14

evidence available because of that. That

56:17

stimmied the investigation which is why we

56:19

are where we are and she didn't

56:22

mince her words about that and I

56:24

think that that's important. Had

56:26

the lines of investigation and inquiry been

56:28

followed then we wouldn't have all these

56:30

question marks. So

56:32

there is an element of culpability there

56:35

the New South Wales police and

56:37

it impacted on the availability of

56:40

evidence. She of

56:42

course talked about her findings

56:46

in that Marion was

56:48

deceased and I think we all knew

56:50

that she would reach that conclusion but

56:52

she could not say the date of

56:55

her dying. She could not say the place, she could

56:57

not say the cause of death or the manner of

56:59

death but she found the

57:02

circumstances troubling. That

57:04

statement is important. She

57:06

found it troubling the circumstances and

57:08

that led her really into the

57:10

next part which she

57:13

was referring it to New South

57:15

Wales police for investigation, review

57:18

and monitoring and she said very

57:20

clearly the investigation was not over.

57:22

Correct. It had not concluded. Yes and I

57:25

mean she certainly seems to have the measure

57:27

of the man in Rick Bloom but is

57:30

limited with how far or how hard

57:32

she can go in relation to his

57:35

criminality. Yes and

57:37

she has to follow the fact and

57:39

although she has opined and taken

57:41

the next step with some points

57:44

i.e. with the tea chest

57:46

and overlaying what the other women said in

57:49

their experience of Rick Bloom but she can

57:51

only take it so far and I did

57:53

wonder whether she might put it

57:55

back in the court of either the DPP

57:57

to make the decision or the police

58:00

have to do further investigation. And

58:02

to say that the investigation has not concluded,

58:04

I felt that that was a very, you

58:07

know, there was no real emphasis on it.

58:10

But what she was really saying is it

58:12

was never properly investigated. And there are still

58:14

things that need to be done. There are

58:16

still stones that need to be unturned. Like,

58:19

for example, did they get

58:21

married in Japan? You know,

58:23

yes, she says that she's a big ship,

58:26

and that Marian believed that she was married.

58:28

But if you follow that

58:30

through, maybe there's further evidence. Maybe there

58:33

are other witnesses. Maybe there were things

58:35

that were heard. And it jolts people's

58:38

memories if Sally

58:40

and Joni are there asking questions.

58:43

So she had to add a

58:46

circumspect in what she could say. And

58:49

I believe she was very measured in that. And

58:52

yes, it's disappointing not to

58:54

hear a referral to the Director

58:56

of Public Prosecutions. But

59:00

I sense that she believes

59:02

that there's still lines of inquiry to

59:04

follow, and there's still evidence to find,

59:06

and that she doesn't want it just

59:08

to come back with a straight, insufficient

59:11

evidence to charge. Yeah,

59:14

look, I think that's good in the sense that,

59:16

yes, she did do that. I guess the

59:19

problem after speaking to Sally

59:21

afterwards is, can we

59:23

rely on New South Wales Police with

59:25

all their multiple priorities to

59:28

still prioritise this and follow up

59:30

any extra information? Yes, look, New

59:32

South Wales Police have been

59:34

in the headlines again for

59:36

not understanding high profile cases and

59:38

saying things, the Chief, you know,

59:40

the Commissioner herself saying crime of

59:43

passion for a suspected domestic homicide.

59:45

So that doesn't really give much

59:47

confidence, particularly given everything that's gone on

59:49

with this case. So,

59:52

you know, are New South Wales, do

59:55

we have confidence in them reigniting

59:58

an investigation? No,

1:00:01

and that's the problem. The

1:00:03

problem is that they didn't look at it

1:00:05

the first time, the second time, the third

1:00:07

time, the fourth time, that you have got

1:00:10

a number of officers that do seem she

1:00:12

commended a number of officers. But I still

1:00:14

felt the June 2021 police interview was a

1:00:17

real missed opportunity.

1:00:19

And that's when they could have put

1:00:21

pressure on Rick Bloom. And

1:00:24

they didn't understand who he was then. So did

1:00:26

they understand that now? And are they going to

1:00:28

put any added investigative

1:00:30

resources into the case? Or are they just going

1:00:32

to let it sit there in the unsolved

1:00:34

homicide unit? But you'll remember

1:00:37

with Lynette Dawson, they didn't

1:00:39

investigate either. And it

1:00:41

went to two coroner's inquest. And

1:00:43

still there wasn't a proper investigation. Well, Headley

1:00:46

Thomas did that investigation and it had to

1:00:48

be a podcast similar to what you've done

1:00:50

with the lady vanishes. And

1:00:53

I just hope those other pieces

1:00:55

of evidence can be uncovered. But

1:00:58

I doubt Fanny does have confidence because

1:01:00

that's where it's been all this time.

1:01:02

And still, they haven't really

1:01:04

done very much. At least we know about

1:01:06

Rick Bloom. We have to give them

1:01:08

credit for that. But I mean, obviously

1:01:10

it will have to be instigated by

1:01:12

the podcast and the inquest to get

1:01:14

to that level. So, so

1:01:16

yes, it's great. But yeah, it needs

1:01:18

to continue. We're hoping also, you know,

1:01:20

that by doing a book, people

1:01:23

who don't listen to podcasts or maybe

1:01:25

the older people, because obviously in his

1:01:27

world, there'll be a lot of older

1:01:30

people, other victims potentially, or even witnesses

1:01:32

may come forward. So any sort of,

1:01:34

you know, expanding that

1:01:36

network. But it still does

1:01:39

feel, yeah, that we

1:01:41

need somebody to go that little bit

1:01:43

further. Yeah, well, let's hope so. I

1:01:45

mean, I still stand by the 41

1:01:47

points of circumstantial evidence and I

1:01:49

still feel that it's a very compelling case. Invest

1:01:53

the resources, do the extra digging

1:01:55

and yeah, let's get this

1:01:57

solved because it can be.

1:02:00

And when you look at, I don't know, I mean,

1:02:02

I know you looked at the Dawson case and I won't go

1:02:04

too much into it again because we did last time, but

1:02:07

when you look at the evidence against Blum

1:02:09

and the evidence against Dawson. And

1:02:11

41 points, I found they were

1:02:13

only the significant ones like the

1:02:15

coroner did when she went, the

1:02:17

pertinent matters as did I. And

1:02:20

that's what I mean, who

1:02:22

is genuinely committed to

1:02:24

finding answers here and

1:02:27

the case is built on

1:02:29

circumstantial evidence. I mean, the

1:02:32

other matter is that now there has been this finding some

1:02:34

Mr. Rick Blum will

1:02:36

probably be sign, you know, a big sigh

1:02:38

of relief and feel that

1:02:40

that's the end of the matter. And

1:02:44

it's been kicked into the long grass and I

1:02:46

really hope that that is not the sense. I

1:02:49

really do because there is much more

1:02:51

that can be done with this case.

1:02:55

Well, the coroner saying that Marianne is deceased,

1:02:58

that's another big point for Sally because now

1:03:00

she can get the death certificate and then

1:03:02

now certain information can

1:03:05

be, hopefully, she

1:03:07

can find other pieces of information because

1:03:09

she now can produce the death certificate.

1:03:11

And I know there's a challenge around

1:03:13

the name and I

1:03:16

noticed that the coroner kept referring to

1:03:18

her with the name change,

1:03:21

you know, and saying Flora

1:03:23

Bella and Natalia, Marianne Remickel, well, of

1:03:25

course she lived her whole life till

1:03:28

months before she left as Marianne. So

1:03:31

I hope that more

1:03:34

information can be retrieved by Sally

1:03:36

and that's an important part of this process but

1:03:38

it happened a long time ago. Well,

1:03:40

that's the thing isn't it? New evidence can

1:03:42

also trigger other mechanisms in

1:03:44

the justice system that can

1:03:47

get them to revisit and it's

1:03:50

clear what has happened to

1:03:52

Marianne though. So, and I think even

1:03:54

to the coroner without saying as much,

1:03:56

she does not feel like it's as much

1:03:58

of a mystery anymore. No, we're

1:04:01

saying the circumstances are troubling and

1:04:03

knowing that they are tied together,

1:04:06

she doesn't believe what he has said,

1:04:08

but it's what you can prove. And that's

1:04:10

ostensibly what she was saying. It's

1:04:12

what can be proven, i.e. if

1:04:15

you've got the money from

1:04:17

her account for his,

1:04:19

then it's very clear evidence.

1:04:22

But at times with cases, you have to take

1:04:25

that leap. With all these points, can

1:04:27

you say that the money transferred if

1:04:29

Marianne was encouraged to give the money

1:04:31

to Rick Bloom? And

1:04:33

that money transfers and then she disappears?

1:04:36

Who's got means, motive and opportunity?

1:04:39

And often we don't have all the details

1:04:41

with cases. But

1:04:44

41 points is not

1:04:47

anything to feel is

1:04:49

inconsequential. There's a huge

1:04:52

amount of evidence that points in direction

1:04:54

to Rick Bloom, but I felt she

1:04:56

was just hesitant to go to the

1:04:58

next stage. You know, if

1:05:00

it were to go to trial, like

1:05:02

with Cripp Stawson's case, a lot of

1:05:04

official evidence was presented. The judge was

1:05:07

very thorough in his

1:05:10

summing up of his decision.

1:05:12

And it always comes back to that. It's

1:05:15

the execution of it. If it's presented in

1:05:17

the right way to a

1:05:19

judge and jury, they can make the

1:05:21

right decision of that next leap of

1:05:24

who's on her timeline. They

1:05:27

go to England, they return

1:05:29

to Australia, he's married, he

1:05:31

has no service. I

1:05:33

told her I was married. That's when

1:05:35

it ended. And I believe that that's

1:05:39

what you have to look

1:05:41

at the probability. What's

1:05:44

the chance of it being somebody else

1:05:46

who disappears, Marianne, or she disappeared herself?

1:05:50

Versus he didn't get the

1:05:52

outcome he wanted and she challenged him.

1:05:55

That's much more likely. But

1:05:57

that should be up to a court to

1:05:59

decide. And maybe in

1:06:01

the best possible case, you've got

1:06:03

New South Wales police who are

1:06:05

following lines of investigation and

1:06:09

they've been doing that in the background. I can't

1:06:11

talk to that. I would hope that

1:06:14

they are doing that and that they certainly do

1:06:17

as the coroner requested, which

1:06:20

is it's a continuing, it's an

1:06:22

ongoing investigation. So

1:06:29

to recap, the coroner found that

1:06:32

while she cannot say how or

1:06:34

where it happened, Marion is deceased.

1:06:39

She found that Rick Blum was in

1:06:41

a relationship with Marion, which is why

1:06:44

she changed her name to Remickel. And

1:06:47

that he persuaded her to sell

1:06:49

her house and took possession of her

1:06:52

belongings. That

1:06:54

he lured her overseas with the promise of a

1:06:56

new life. That he played

1:06:59

some role in her life after

1:07:01

she returned to Australia right before

1:07:03

she vanished. And that

1:07:05

his lies and deception convinced the

1:07:07

coroner that Mr Blum does indeed

1:07:09

no more than he is saying.

1:07:12

She found it is up to police to

1:07:15

decide whether to charge Rick Blum with perjury.

1:07:17

And she has referred the case

1:07:20

to the New South Wales police

1:07:22

homicide squad to investigate further and

1:07:24

hopefully solve the likely

1:07:27

murder of Marion Barter.

1:07:34

We put some questions to New South

1:07:36

Wales police media asking whether they will

1:07:38

charge Rick Blum with anything. We

1:07:42

also asked if Sally would get an

1:07:44

apology. This was their response.

1:08:00

$1,000 reward remains on offer

1:08:03

for information into the 1997

1:08:05

suspicious disappearance of Marion Barter.

1:08:08

Anyone who may have information that

1:08:11

can assist Strike Force Durunga investigators

1:08:13

is urged to contact police. Just

1:08:17

a reminder, the Crimestoppers number is 1800 333

1:08:19

000. We

1:08:27

have written an account of this

1:08:29

podcast from its inception, tracing the

1:08:31

remarkable twists and turns of a

1:08:33

story you can only believe because

1:08:35

it's true. One

1:08:38

that has spanned eight decades and taken us

1:08:40

across the world, discovering a

1:08:42

story unique in true crime podcasting.

1:08:45

Marion was not even listed as missing when

1:08:47

we began. Publisher

1:08:50

Harper Collins will launch The Lady

1:08:52

Vanishes, the book, on May 15.

1:08:55

If you're after a copy of the first print

1:08:57

or audio book, it's available for

1:09:00

pre-order right now. And

1:09:03

you can help support Jelaine Du

1:09:05

Bois-Danois, the 89-year-old who was duped

1:09:07

of her life savings by

1:09:09

purchasing the book from School Works

1:09:12

Supplies, Educational Resources and Books, who

1:09:15

will donate 10% of every

1:09:17

purchase to Jelaine's GoFundMe account.

1:09:19

We'll put a link on our Facebook page. This

1:09:33

is the final episode of The Lady

1:09:35

Vanishes. That

1:09:38

said, we'll stay across any major developments

1:09:40

and let you know about them. You

1:09:43

can still send us tips and information if

1:09:45

you know something. For

1:09:48

all of us, it's been a

1:09:50

labour of love, involving thousands of

1:09:52

hours outside our paid jobs, pursuing

1:09:54

a story that no one initially

1:09:56

cared about. To help a

1:09:59

daughter convince. that something

1:10:01

had happened to her mother.

1:10:07

From the beginning, we hoped to

1:10:09

trigger an inquest into Marion's disappearance.

1:10:12

But first, we had to convince the authorities

1:10:14

that she was missing and

1:10:16

coax the police into action and

1:10:19

find the clues that transformed

1:10:21

this case from obscurity to

1:10:24

public awareness worldwide. Thank

1:10:26

you to the millions of people listening

1:10:28

in Australia and around the world. Thank

1:10:33

you to all those who reached

1:10:36

out with information, tips and support.

1:10:40

Thank you to the brave women

1:10:42

who came forward to share their

1:10:44

stories with us. Thank

1:10:47

you, Sally Leiden. Now,

1:10:52

there is only one thing left to

1:10:55

say. From me,

1:10:57

Alison Sandy. From me, Brian

1:10:59

Seymour. And from behind the

1:11:01

scenes, me, Sally Eales. And

1:11:04

from your audio guy, Mark Wright.

1:11:06

Goodbye. Thank

1:11:18

you, Mary and Alison. If

1:11:29

you knew Marion or have any information

1:11:31

about her or her whereabouts, we'd love

1:11:33

to hear from you. Our

1:11:37

website is sevennews.com.au slash

1:11:41

news slash The Lady Vanishes.

1:11:43

And you can also message us here. You

1:11:46

can also send us an anonymous

1:11:48

tip at theladivanishs.org. Find

1:12:00

us! Presenter

1:12:02

and executive producer I was in

1:12:05

Sandy. Investigative

1:12:07

journalist. Brine see

1:12:09

more. Writer and producer

1:12:11

Sell yields sound designs

1:12:14

Mark Right Graphics: Jason

1:12:16

Glanford. Translation

1:12:18

and Transcripts: Estelle Sanchez.

1:12:22

The same and much of the music

1:12:24

by Nicholas. Guess we're really at the

1:12:27

Dog piano.com. Thanks

1:12:30

again to aliens from say. This

1:12:34

is a Seven News production.