0:11

This

0:11

is the case of Marion Barter,

0:14

a mother, teacher, friend,

0:19

missing for 26 years. You

0:22

know, no sign that she was going to vanish,

0:24

that's for sure. The bizarre circumstances

0:27

surrounding her disappearance. I'm

0:29

not sure if it was intentional or if there was

0:31

something more foul afoot.

0:34

If you could imagine a teacher coming straight

0:36

from, say, Little House on the Prairie to the

0:38

80s, that was Marion Barter.

0:40

What did her do? I

0:42

see. Whether you find Marion

0:44

Barter dead or alive, I honestly

0:47

believe somebody has that key piece

0:49

of information.

0:50

And the relentless quest of a

0:52

daughter to find her mum. Something

0:55

had happened. Something has happened

0:57

to make her leave.

1:00

I am 100% sure, 100% sure

1:03

that somebody knows something.

1:24

Our deep dive on Rick Blum continues.

1:27

It's clear, as pointed out by many

1:29

experts, including criminal analyst

1:32

Laura Richards, that understanding

1:34

this man, along with interrogating

1:37

his pattern of behaviour and what he's

1:39

capable of, is integral to

1:41

the investigation into what happened

1:44

to Marion Barter.

1:48

One man we have heard about but

1:50

never spoken with is Michael Reid, Evelyn's stepfather.

1:55

Michael was married to Evelyn's mother, a long-time

1:57

friend of

1:57

Evelyn's. He was a very good friend of

1:59

Evelyn's. whom he met after she separated

2:02

from Willy Wooters, or Rick

2:04

Blum, who is Evelyn's biological

2:06

father.

2:09

Michael says he and Alona also

2:11

had a child together, Christopher, however

2:15

on his birth certificate his father

2:17

is listed as Willy Wooters.

2:21

When Alona died in 1977 the impact on all their lives

2:24

was immense. As

2:30

discussed in previous episodes there

2:32

are many issues with the way her death was

2:34

handled and whether there could

2:36

be much more to it than was previously

2:39

acknowledged.

2:42

Brian contacted Michael Reed

2:44

and after initially rejecting his request

2:46

for an interview I sent him the

2:48

list of questions and he changed

2:51

his mind. Hello? Hi Michael

2:53

it's Alison Sandy how are you? At the start

2:55

of the interview he announced it was

2:57

also being recorded at his end. Are

3:00

you there? Yeah we're recording. Can you hear

3:02

me Michael? I can. Oh good

3:04

hey first of all thank you for talking

3:06

to us Michael. I've just got some

3:08

questions I think you've seen them

3:10

in a print form so I'll just ask away.

3:13

Can you tell us about your relationship with Willy

3:15

Wooters also known as Frederick de Hedervery

3:18

and also known as Rick Blum?

3:21

I had no relationship with

3:23

him the only time I met him was at

3:25

a ferry terminal when Alona and I

3:27

were going back to England and

3:31

he arrived and

3:33

I never spoke with him. He took

3:36

Alona out to the car and they

3:38

spoke and Alona

3:40

came back to me and we boarded the vessel and went to

3:42

England and that's all I can tell you of

3:44

my personal dealings with him. And

3:47

when was that? Do you remember when that ferry trip was?

3:49

It would have been 70 hours either 70 or 71. And

3:52

what did Alona tell you about Willy

3:55

Wooters as he was then? She never told

3:57

me a great deal. They argued.

3:59

arguments but the

4:02

only thing she said I became

4:06

enraged one time and hit him on the head with

4:08

a bottle and Ilona wasn't a type of person to become enraged. She

4:11

was a very sweet and gentle

4:13

person. I knew nothing of his prior

4:15

history and Ilona never mentioned

4:18

anything to me of his

4:20

prior history where

4:22

we were together. And do you know anything

4:24

about what you've told me a bit about the relationship

4:27

between Ilona and Willie? Did he mention anything

4:29

else such as any other incidents of

4:31

violence or infidelity?

4:33

No. Another thing she told

4:36

me was that before she was due to

4:38

get married one of the wives or

4:40

the previous wife knocked on her door and

4:43

said, you're getting yourself into big

4:46

trouble here. Don't

4:48

do it. He's

4:50

not a nice man. And would you remember the

4:53

name if I told you? Was it Nicole? It

4:55

was the previous wife. I think he was married

4:58

three times. So it would have been, it was a Belgium

5:01

lady I think and I can't remember the

5:03

name. There were actually two wives prior

5:05

to Ilona? Look, it's a long time ago man.

5:08

I just can't,

5:09

I can't recall. Okay. And

5:12

did you know that Willie was a convicted con man

5:14

before he met Ilona?

5:17

Yes. I

5:19

can't recall if I was with her

5:22

but I did find an article in a

5:27

French paper which stated

5:29

that he was found with 17 different

5:31

passports under 17

5:34

different aliases. The only

5:36

other thing that I recall about also

5:39

is that Ilona

5:41

told me that he had hired a car in Switzerland

5:44

I think and sold it in Italy. It's a Porsche.

5:47

No. And then she said to me he was a gambler.

5:50

She said he used to go out gambling and

5:54

sometimes she'll get nice rings and the next

5:56

minute they disappear. To that point,

5:58

did Willie ever ask you for money?

5:59

money or try to scam you? No, never

6:02

had

6:04

there was,

6:08

yes I think I can honestly

6:10

say there was an incident

6:12

which I've just recalled. We

6:15

had paperwork come through, it was all in French

6:18

and it advised,

6:21

I think it was to either everybody nor a

6:23

loner, I can't remember, but

6:25

somebody had died in Belgium

6:28

supposedly and if they

6:30

paid all the taxes

6:32

they would get all the properties or something like that.

6:34

I always wish I'd have kept

6:36

that paperwork. So there was

6:41

a document that came from overseas obviously

6:44

from him trying to scam

6:46

and I took it to a friend of

6:48

mine and he said,

6:50

a Belgian friend of mine and he read

6:52

it and I said he said to me forget all about

6:54

it. So it clearly was some kind

6:57

of attempt to scam you think? Oh

6:59

yes, yes definitely, definitely a scam. And

7:01

what would the scam have been? Well

7:03

the scam would have been that

7:07

if

7:07

all the back taxes had been paid

7:10

which is what they were after, the

7:12

money for the backpack taxes, all

7:14

the properties of

7:16

this person would then be assigned

7:20

to either a loner or a loner

7:22

had died then. So it was definitely to Evelyn,

7:25

it was definitely to Evelyn.

7:28

She was very young then, I can't

7:30

remember the age but it was very

7:33

suspicious. I tell you

7:35

what, now this is all coming, I wish I'd have kept the

7:37

documents or the doctrines I had. Okay,

7:40

Michael, just on that, so just

7:42

so I'm clear, it appears that this was a document

7:44

asking you or someone

7:47

on Evelyn's behalf to pay money to

7:49

then access the rights

7:51

to the property. Yeah.

7:53

And the scam element might have been that

7:55

you would pay the money and not get the rights to the

7:57

property. Oh that's exactly right.

8:01

Michael appears to be referring to

8:04

Evelyn's 4 million franc debt in

8:06

relation to the death of Freddie David, Rick

8:08

Bloom's brother. We

8:11

are still investigating this, but we believe

8:13

the debt was real. However,

8:16

it is uncertain whether it was racked

8:18

up by the real Freddie David or

8:20

by Rick Bloom, who used that name

8:23

as one of his aliases. We

8:26

move on to questions about Ilona's

8:29

inheritance after her mother died.

8:32

Well, this is a very interesting situation.

8:35

When Ilona's mother

8:37

died, there was a percentage

8:40

of the property that was

8:42

left to Ilona. But

8:44

because Ilona had passed on, it

8:48

was got to go equally divided

8:50

to both of the two siblings. Now,

8:55

I had no

8:57

information or dealings with

9:00

that money.

9:00

You

9:03

will recall that Evelyn visited the office

9:06

of the notary who drew up a private

9:08

agreement relating to her grandmother's estate, allegedly

9:11

signed by Willie Wooters, aka

9:13

Rick Bloom, Joseph Biro and

9:16

Michael Reed, which sounds a lot

9:18

like the deal Reed is now describing, except

9:21

he says he was not a part of

9:23

it.

9:25

That money was directed

9:29

to both the children.

9:32

I never knew how much they got, and

9:36

I was told nothing. Now,

9:39

going further, Joseph

9:42

Kinsell died in

9:45

Hungary and also

9:47

left money to

9:49

both the children. That

9:53

I know nothing of either. I

9:55

know nothing of how it was sorted.

10:00

and how they were paid. And

10:02

I'd also like to answer the question on behalf

10:06

of my dear wife that

10:08

passed away, God bless her soul. Edward

10:13

Bill was her boss,

10:15

she was a hairdresser, he called me up and

10:18

he said, come in, we

10:20

might be able to get some workers' compensation

10:23

here for you or the children. I

10:26

have the forms here, come and fill them

10:28

in. I went into South

10:30

Yarra where Ilona worked, filled

10:33

out the paperwork and there

10:35

was compensation

10:38

awarded to both the

10:40

children of

10:42

which I had no control over whatsoever.

10:46

It was organised by the insurance

10:50

company that paid out. Now,

10:54

was her cousin and informed

10:57

Evelyn at the age

10:59

of 16 or 17, or it

11:01

might have been younger, that compensation

11:04

money had been paid and

11:07

that your father, who is me,

11:11

knows all about it. Well, I was

11:13

never questioned by Evelyn. She

11:17

followed up and went into to

11:20

the city and

11:23

she procured her part of

11:25

the money. When it wasn't,

11:30

I think they weren't allowed until they were 18,

11:33

but I'm not sure. But

11:35

anyway, she told

11:37

Chris of this and he

11:40

also did the same.

11:43

I know nothing about when they did it. I

11:46

know that Evelyn bought a car with her money.

11:50

My wife with me now was with me when she

11:52

bought the car. I

11:54

know Chris had bought a motorbike with his money.

11:59

assessment of his children which

12:02

we won't share with you. Suffice

12:04

to say he claims they got all the

12:06

money and he got nothing.

12:09

The property in Brussels

12:11

where I live with Ilona was

12:13

a joint property between her

12:16

mother and Joseph Beiro

12:19

and they had another

12:21

property that they

12:24

were both property owners of

12:26

that. Now when Ilona's

12:28

mother died I believe they

12:30

sold the one and put it all into the other because

12:33

I was helping at the time him

12:35

do the central heating

12:37

and working in the

12:39

property before we left for Australia. And so

12:41

did you strike any agreement

12:44

with Joseph Beiro and Willy Wooters

12:46

about that property? There was no

12:49

agreement discussed.

12:51

There was no agreement

12:55

signed

12:56

and whoever said that

13:00

it was agreement that I could have Evelyn, Ilona's

13:03

death left me with

13:06

Evelyn

13:09

and Chris. And

13:11

at the time Chris's name was

13:13

Wooters because

13:15

he was born in Brussels before

13:18

the divorce came through and before the name

13:20

change came through if you really

13:23

want to get into the degree of it and

13:25

it took it took me hundreds of dollars with

13:28

a no tear in Belgium to get Chris's

13:30

name into read

13:33

because he was my son.

13:35

Just to avoid confusion this is

13:37

actually wrong. Chris was born in Tournay

13:40

not Brussels. Back to the interview.

13:42

Did you also change Evelyn's name at

13:44

that time? Evelyn was Evelyn Wooters.

13:47

Never changed her name. We

13:48

came to Australia and

13:52

everything was in the name of read.

13:54

So she's always been known in Australia

13:56

as read. Yeah and that's what I'm saying.

13:59

Was she known as read? because you basically told

14:01

her her name was Evelyn Reed. That's right. Can

14:03

I just interrupt here, just to check

14:05

with that private agreement, because my understanding,

14:08

and this is why it seems seems

14:11

to be the case, is my understanding was that

14:14

they were underage at that time. So that's

14:17

why there had to be a private agreement between

14:19

yourself, Rick Blum being

14:22

Evelyn's father and Joseph Beero. And

14:24

that was the evidence that we saw

14:26

in Belgium that there was a private agreement

14:29

there. And that was when Rick Blum

14:31

told Evelyn subsequently,

14:32

although he didn't

14:35

mention that he was part of it, that the

14:37

deal was that Beero

14:39

kept the property and you kept Evelyn. Well,

14:43

someone said he lies here because

14:46

I was totally unaware

14:48

of any agreement as such.

14:50

But you would have had to have acted

14:53

on their behalf, given that they were

14:55

underage. Like they couldn't have signed for that.

14:58

So somebody had to. I would have thought it was

15:00

you and Blum, I suppose, if he

15:02

was going by being

15:04

the father. As far

15:06

as I'm concerned, there was no

15:09

interaction in any of this

15:11

with Blum. As

15:14

far as I'm concerned, as far

15:16

as I know, or to my knowledge, there

15:19

was no agreement whatsoever about

15:21

me keeping Evelyn. That is

15:23

a load of codswallop. He

15:26

also lied. He also lied that he

15:28

didn't even know, he said he'd seen her once.

15:32

And that was a total lie because I know that Ilona

15:34

had behind

15:37

my back taken

15:40

Evelyn to see Wotus.

15:43

Now we weren't married then, we were just very

15:45

early stages of concubine.

15:48

So we're living together. Did you just deal

15:50

with Beero then? And you're saying this

15:52

private agreement, which we did see evidence

15:54

of. There was no agreement. I've

15:56

never seen an agreement. I was never part of agreement.

15:59

whose claim? Where is this agreement

16:01

supposed to have originated?

16:02

Well, if there was any agreement

16:04

for the kids to get anything, it would have

16:07

to have been signed off by an adult,

16:09

not by them. No, that's the confusion.

16:12

No. If there's

16:14

an amount of money awarded

16:18

for inheritance,

16:22

the inheritance – I

16:25

believe that Urgibet, we're

16:27

in Elizabeth in English. But Urgibet,

16:30

she loved those children and she had dawdered

16:32

daughter. Now, she

16:35

knew she was dying, she had cancer and

16:37

Ilona went back in the October for

16:39

three months and came back, what

16:42

was that, 76 and came back

16:44

in 77. We moved

16:46

into the house in February

16:48

of 77 and she died of a heart attack on the

16:50

13th of July, six months

16:53

later, five months later. And as

16:57

far as I was concerned, the children were

17:00

in my care and I was the responsible

17:02

parent and left to bring them up.

17:05

Attila, her brother, actually

17:07

came out to see

17:09

me and the children, God

17:12

bless his little socks. And

17:15

unfortunately, two years later, 21, he

17:17

walked into his

17:19

father's property, Claxon died of a brain

17:22

hemorrhage. He was in the German Air

17:24

Force, her army and

17:27

he died of a brain hemorrhage. Now,

17:29

the whole

17:31

family was a travesty. Ilona

17:34

died and she did a mother died three months

17:36

later in September and then Attila

17:39

died. What

17:41

made me laugh last night was Livy was reading

17:43

out some information on this, Willie

17:45

Woters with the names and one of his synonyms

17:48

was Attila, Attila somebody. We

17:52

just looked at each other and we just couldn't believe

17:54

what this man's up to. But getting

17:56

back to my situation with these children,

17:59

the numbers

17:59

were wonderful to me because

18:03

she was Catholic

18:06

school and they had organized

18:11

in Geelong when he was five,

18:13

just five, and the

18:16

nuns organized for Evelyn to go to a

18:19

convent

18:22

in South Melbourne.

18:24

And I turned around and said, look, these

18:26

children have just lost their mother. They're

18:28

not going to lose a man, a father figure.

18:31

And well, from there it

18:34

went on and it

18:36

was a... It was a trap... The whole

18:39

situation for the family was a travesty.

18:41

And so both children ended up going into what,

18:43

good homes? I got to the situation. I had

18:46

friends saying to me, you can't look after the children,

18:48

you have to do something with them. And I said,

18:50

no way. And the nuns said, well look, we've

18:53

got a Catholic family welfare home in

18:55

Black Rock where an

18:57

older couple look after four or five children. And

19:01

I finally agreed much

19:03

to... That's my own feelings. I

19:05

put them in there and I wanted to see... I said, I'll

19:07

come and see every weekend. Well, they decided that

19:10

I couldn't see them every weekend because they

19:12

wanted me to have a life. So anyway, I

19:14

saw them on a regular basis and helped financially

19:18

pay for their upkeep.

19:21

But

19:23

that was a tough time for all. So was

19:26

there any time that you

19:28

were not the legal guardian for Chris

19:30

and Evelyn when they were children? Were either of

19:32

them wards of the state? I was a legal guardian

19:35

all the time. There was never any judgment

19:37

made by any court.

19:40

As far as everybody was concerned, I was their

19:42

father. No, it wouldn't need to be a judgment.

19:44

But people, when you say you

19:46

handed the children over to a group home, did

19:49

you also relinquish legal guardianship

19:51

when you did that?

19:52

Look, I don't know. I'd

19:55

never thought of that. I'd

19:57

never thought of that.

20:01

This is very interesting to me personally.

20:04

I was awarded the state from the time I was born

20:07

until I was 18 years old, so

20:09

I know how the system works. I'm also

20:11

about the same age as Evelyn. Evelyn

20:14

has confirmed that she was awarded

20:16

the state of Victoria. This

20:19

means that the government and the responsible

20:21

minister was her legal guardian. I

20:25

do not understand how Michael Reed could

20:27

not know that he was no longer Evelyn's

20:29

legal guardian, especially if he was

20:32

still in contact with her as he claims. Another

20:36

thing that stands out in our conversation, never

20:39

once does Michael express sympathy

20:41

for Evelyn or for his son Chris. Despite

20:44

the litany of traumatic experiences,

20:47

they had to endure as very young children.

20:51

Can I ask you, were you suspicious

20:53

about the manner of Elona's death?

20:55

You know, Elona

21:00

had thrown this birthday party for Chris

21:02

and I on the Sunday,

21:05

which was 11th, 12th, 13th on the 10th.

21:10

She died on the Wednesday, which was the 13th.

21:15

They were all going home. One of my friends turned

21:17

around and said, now you're going to get the biggest birthday

21:19

present, Mike. Elona

21:22

looked at me and she said, no, you're

21:24

not. No, you're not. She

21:26

didn't. I

21:29

looked back on that moment and I said, well,

21:32

it's very unusual for Elona because she

21:34

never knocked me back without being

21:37

too smart. She never

21:39

knocked me back. Anyway,

21:42

we went to bed and in the morning

21:44

she said she didn't feel too good and

21:47

she was losing blood from a vagina, she

21:49

told me. And I said, well, you better

21:51

go to the doctor and get yourself checked out. She

21:53

said, I will. Now, when

21:56

I kissed her goodbye in the morning of

21:58

the day she died And she had asked me to

22:00

meet her for lunch. Her

22:02

lips were very cold and I said, that's a kiss of

22:04

death. That is terrible, Lona. And

22:07

she was cold. She was cold and I gave her

22:09

a hug. I said, are you all right? Are you all

22:12

right to go to work? She said, yes. Anyway,

22:15

I was tied up with a customer and never made

22:17

lunch. And the rest is history.

22:20

Just to recap, we already know

22:23

that Lona visited her doctor a week

22:25

before her death on July 27, 1977, complaining

22:27

of a sore throat.

22:31

Now Michael tells us that two days

22:33

before she died, Lona was experiencing

22:36

vaginal bleeding. And on the morning

22:38

she died, her lips were stone

22:40

cold.

22:41

Now I've never known

22:44

that they said there was nothing wrong with her heart,

22:47

but she had the autopsy comments

22:49

that you sent me on that it's

22:51

blown me away because she

22:54

had heart pills to take. She

22:57

had heart pills to take because when

23:00

she was young, she had scarlet

23:02

fever and it left a

23:05

mark on her heart, I believe. And

23:07

this is what I was told by Lona. And

23:12

obviously when she died,

23:14

I just said, well, everybody

23:17

said, well, how was her heart? I said, well, I know she

23:20

had a weak heart. I

23:23

never ever thought about the

23:26

possibility that something

23:28

untoward had happened to her. Never.

23:30

Just to reiterate, we have the

23:32

autopsy report confirming the opposite,

23:35

that her heart was fine. In

23:37

fact, my wife sitting here now

23:39

worked right just outside

23:42

where she died. Just outside

23:44

where she was there when the car was when she died

23:46

at the will and the ambulance was there. My

23:48

wife now, Olivia, was actually

23:51

there and so was a friend of mine. He was a

23:53

Belgian friend. He

23:56

worked with Olivia then and

23:58

he said, I know that car.

26:00

that she died of a broken heart and I've

26:02

told to be this and if they turn

26:04

around now and say there was nothing wrong with her heart well that's

26:06

why she died of a broken heart.

26:08

Okay and can I ask you why

26:10

wasn't a proper burial site organized

26:13

for Alona? Well

26:15

you have really hit a very sore

26:18

point. Mia Culper,

26:21

Mia Culper, Mia Culper.

26:24

I basically

26:26

never wanted to go back there. I

26:30

didn't accept that she'd gone and

26:34

that's basically it. I

26:37

can say no more.

26:38

How surprised are you that Rick

26:41

Bloom, Willie Wooters is now a person

26:44

of interest in the disappearance of another woman, Marianne

26:46

Barter. Well so totally

26:48

blown away. Totally

26:51

blown away.

26:52

I believe Chris told us that you were working on a

26:54

cruise ship when you met Alona and that's how

26:57

he was conceived. Is that right? Yes

26:59

she came on a cruise. I was Maitre d'

27:02

and

27:03

she chased

27:05

me unfortunately. She

27:08

did. She had guys coming up to me

27:11

and saying Alona

27:13

wants to see you here and wants to see you there. Well

27:15

at that particular time we weren't allowed to mix

27:18

with passengers but

27:21

the story goes on of course that we finally

27:23

did and we finally got together and

27:27

she didn't actually join the ship in Sydney

27:29

when we sailed for home to England

27:32

because the ship was full. She

27:34

flew to Fiji and joined the ship in Fiji

27:38

and then it was on for young and old

27:40

and the rest is history.

27:42

Michael Reed admits he was very

27:44

blunt when he told Evelyn he wasn't

27:47

her father.

27:48

I remember it very clearly. We'd

27:49

had

27:52

a big rail but she'd been,

27:54

I don't know, she

27:56

was just you know she was off the rails.

28:00

And I'd called her home one time, which was very

28:02

rare. And

28:04

I just said to her, look, I

28:07

never wanted to tell you this, but I'm just going to

28:09

tell you that the life you've given

28:11

me and what you've put me through, and

28:14

I'm not even your fucking father, is

28:16

exactly what I said to her. How old was she

28:19

then? I would say she was a good 15, 16.

28:22

This corroborates what Evelyn told us, as

28:24

heard in the previous episode, but

28:27

she added that much more was said to her, which

28:29

was so bad, she couldn't repeat

28:31

it.

28:32

Okay, last question from me. Did you

28:34

know Elona was assaulted by Joseph

28:36

Beero?

28:37

No. Elona

28:39

was not assaulted by Joseph Beero.

28:42

Elona was assaulted by Joseph

28:44

Kinsell, her father,

28:47

when she was 11 years old.

28:50

Is that why her mother wasn't

28:53

with him? Yes. So

28:55

it wasn't Beero? It was a Beero, it

28:57

was Kinsell.

28:58

It was her real father.

29:02

This is new.

29:04

Michael is saying that Elona's biological

29:06

father, Joseph Kinsell, sexually

29:09

abused her, not her stepfather,

29:11

Joseph Beero.

29:14

Was there any incidents of Beero

29:16

assaulting or abusing Elona that you're aware

29:18

of? Elona said to me when she came

29:21

back

29:22

from nursing her mother, she

29:25

said, he has

29:27

been a wonderful husband, he

29:30

has been a wonderful father to me.

29:33

There's no way if he makes any

29:36

offer of payment, am

29:38

I going to accept it? Again, this

29:41

seems odd, especially in relation to

29:43

her objecting to her share of the inheritance.

29:47

We don't know the true nature of

29:50

her relationship with Beero, but her

29:52

mother did leave her part of her estate, which

29:54

was to be shared between Evelyn and Christopher

29:57

when she died. She certainly had

29:59

not.

31:59

Evelyn could just renounce like

32:02

her father Rick Bloom did

32:04

unless there is another as yet unknown

32:07

aspect of this deal.

32:09

There is a lot of bad blood between Reed

32:11

and his children.

32:13

It's not for us to go into it here.

32:16

One interesting question that has arisen

32:18

out of these discussions is the

32:20

notion that not only is Evelyn Rick

32:22

Bloom's daughter but could Chris

32:25

Reed also be his biological

32:27

son.

32:28

Willie Wooters as Rick was known then

32:31

was recorded as his father on Chris's

32:33

birth certificate. He was born

32:35

in the same birthplace, Tournay, something

32:38

Michael does not appear to know. Ilona

32:41

did see Willie and it's possible they

32:43

were intimate in the nine months prior

32:46

to Chris's birth.

32:48

It's another intriguing set of coincidences.

32:51

Of course we cannot ask Ilona

32:53

and Michael Reed is adamant Chris

32:56

is his son. As

32:58

to Michael's theory that Ilona died

33:00

of a broken heart we're looking

33:02

for a real-world physical cause

33:05

and it seems that her physical condition

33:07

in the days leading up to and including

33:10

the day she died

33:12

should have triggered immediate medical

33:14

attention. It's

33:17

also worth mentioning that Ilona's mother,

33:19

Erzabet, Elizabeth in English, died

33:22

several months after Ilona in September.

33:27

This is heavy-going and we know

33:29

some of you have questioned what, if anything,

33:32

this has to do with the disappearance of Marion

33:34

Barter.

33:35

Longtime listeners already know the answer.

33:39

When we started out we planned to

33:41

file seven episodes with

33:43

the idea being we would chronicle our investigation

33:46

in real time and keep going until

33:48

we found Marion.

33:50

This is where our investigation

33:52

has led.

33:53

Evelyn has already provided invaluable

33:56

information relating to the key person

33:58

of interest in this case. We

34:00

hope, and we expect, as has

34:02

happened regularly over the past four

34:05

years, that this line of inquiry

34:07

will prompt someone to come forward,

34:09

possibly a person with a vital piece of information,

34:12

that will ultimately help us to

34:14

answer the question,

34:16

driving all of us.

34:18

What happened to Marion Barter?

34:24

Can I record this, Chris? Yeah, if

34:26

you want to. To that end, we track

34:28

down Michael's son and Evelyn's

34:31

half-brother,

34:32

Chris Reed. It

34:33

is fascinating about your mum, Elona.

34:36

Now, she was supposedly

34:38

on the way home from work from Edward

34:41

Beale's hairdressers. And

34:43

for

34:43

some reason, she pulled over and

34:46

died right there in the car.

34:48

Now, there's a lot that happened after that that

34:51

confuses me. But what

34:53

did you make of what you were told? And what were you

34:55

told about how your mum, Elona, died?

34:57

Oh, I was told that she had a stroke

34:59

at the wheel, apparently, and that was it. So,

35:03

yeah, by the time I got to the car,

35:05

she was dead, pretty much. And who told

35:07

you that? My dad, yeah.

35:10

And as time wore on, did you hear

35:12

any more about that? No,

35:14

no, because I got two weeks after

35:17

I went into a home. So

35:19

my dad didn't cope at all, you know, to do and put me in

35:21

my system to a home. So my

35:23

life pretty much changed your shit after that between you and I. Sorry

35:26

to use those words. No, I'm sorry to hear that, Chris. Just

35:29

so you know, I grew up in, as a ward

35:31

of the state, I grew up in government

35:34

orphanages and foster homes and juvenile.

35:37

Yeah, you really? Yeah, juvenile government

35:39

homes when I was a teenager. I have

35:41

a pretty good idea of what that's like. Yeah,

35:43

yeah, yeah. Well, I was, let's

35:46

just say I was happy when the auntie

35:48

and uncle, which is what we had to call him, left.

35:51

And a young fiend had moved in after about three

35:53

and a half years, but then my dad had met a

35:55

Jewish lady and got, you know, was

35:57

about to be remarried.

36:01

So, for me, it was part

36:04

of my world that kind of, I think, sort

36:07

of very little memory. I can remember everything kind of

36:09

before going to home and then coming up,

36:11

but there's kind of a lot of

36:13

parts of my mind that I think

36:15

blocked out.

36:17

Probably this

36:19

trauma, what went on, etc. So

36:21

I have very little memory fascinating. But

36:24

I think I remember my mother was that my dad said,

36:26

you know, all of a sudden she's like, I don't remember

36:28

my dad saying anything to me about my mother, tell you the truth, because

36:30

we never even went to the funeral.

36:32

Why didn't you go? I've

36:34

got no idea.

36:35

I don't remember my dad even having a friend

36:37

with my mum. Actually,

36:39

in fact, my dad

36:41

didn't even give my mum a proper burial. He didn't even give

36:43

her a headstone. I found it years

36:45

later where she was buried in Dannynol. Dannynol.

36:48

I

36:49

like, as an adult, I kind of wanted to write

36:51

some questions and it's like, I went there and I couldn't believe

36:53

it. I'm Mark Rave. My mother

36:56

is buried there and she's

36:58

got no headstone. I kind of went, Dad, what

37:00

the heck is going on?

37:03

He said, I'll go

37:05

and put one on and he never did. So I

37:07

don't know, mate. It was just very

37:09

odd. It's no way to remember such

37:12

a young, vivacious woman. She was very beautiful,

37:14

your mum. I've seen some photos of her and

37:17

by all accounts an absolutely lovely woman.

37:19

You look like Aldra Hepburn, actually, funnily enough. Yeah,

37:22

she did have a bit of that about her, didn't she? Yeah. It

37:26

was always a fascinating point for me because I apparently

37:28

like the story I was told that she had scarlet fever

37:31

as a young girl and he'll kill her.

37:32

And my dad said it left over the weak heart. So

37:35

I've got no idea about that because I've not done much research

37:37

into scarlet fever. I know that scarlet

37:39

fever was a disease

37:41

that was around and still around,

37:44

not as much as it was. But

37:46

apparently that,

37:48

the thing for me was that

37:51

they'd fled Belgium. I

37:54

came back here to Australia with him under his

37:56

name, would you believe it? Belgium wouldn't

37:58

recognise the divorce.

39:59

lived in Belgium and then the UK in

40:02

the very early 80s. And as you're probably aware,

40:05

my grandmother,

40:08

my mum's mum was really suspicious

40:10

of him.

40:11

In fact, so much so that she actually

40:13

hired a private detective to kind

40:15

of, you know, find out who this William Motors guy was

40:17

and found out that actually he was married with a couple

40:19

of children. They went to my mother and told

40:21

her and said, this guy's a scumbag, you

40:23

know, he's lying to you. Yeah.

40:27

I can tell you that in 1977,

40:29

Frederick David DeHedevry, that's Rick

40:32

Bloom, a.k.a. William Motors, arrived

40:35

in Sydney alone from the United

40:37

Kingdom on March 17, 1977.

40:40

And

40:42

he gave his Australian address as Towns

40:44

Road in Valkloos. That's

40:47

here in Sydney. Yeah. So

40:49

anyway, so in 1977, to be honest with

40:51

you, that's March and then my mum dies

40:53

in July. Well, hang on. I'm just about to

40:55

tell you that on March 25, this is

40:57

five days after he arrived in Sydney,

41:00

we've got a record showing Frederick David DeHedevry

41:02

left again for Belgium.

41:04

And then on July 13, your mum

41:07

was discovered in the car and her

41:09

husband at the time, Michael Reed, your dad,

41:12

said she not long returned from Belgium

41:14

after visiting her dying mother. So

41:17

I'm just reading from our timeline after

41:19

Alona Kinsell was found slumped

41:22

at the wheel of her car. Her husband, Michael

41:24

Reed, said she had not long returned from Belgium

41:26

after visiting her dying mother. Yeah,

41:29

that's right. I remember we went back. I remember that. So

41:31

it appears that both

41:34

Willie and your mum were

41:36

in Belgium at around the same time, not

41:38

long before she passed away.

41:41

Well,

41:43

I remember going back to Belgium because my grandmother got cancer

41:46

really and it got a really quick issue. I did in space

41:49

three months. So very

41:51

aggressive, very quick. How old were you

41:53

when Alona, when your mum passed away,

41:55

Chris?

41:56

My mum? Yeah. I

41:59

just turned five. Yeah. Yeah.

42:01

So. There's such a hard thing for a little kid to deal

42:03

with, mate. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Oh

42:06

mate, I think the toughest gig was, you know, I don't know your story,

42:08

we've only got one. It's basically

42:12

two weeks you lost your mum and your dad. All

42:14

of a sudden dad's going to get put into a home.

42:16

So, you know, I think for

42:18

anyone who's gone through that, you know, there's a lot of people

42:20

who've gone through. I mean, my sister Evelyn was awarded

42:23

the state

42:23

for years as well and she was in foster homes and like

42:26

that whole thing.

42:27

Yeah. But, you know, obviously as

42:29

you know, there was a royal commission into the whole lot of, you

42:32

know, foster homes and all things.

42:34

Yeah. I know it well. Yeah.

42:36

Yeah. And I'll get

42:38

approached with

42:40

that as well. Yeah. But,

42:42

you know, I know, I know kind of for

42:44

me, I didn't want to go on the journey of having

42:46

to go through all that again. Then I thought about it. I thought,

42:48

no, I'm not interested, but yeah, I was

42:50

only a boy, mate. But, you know, like

42:52

I always say now, you can't change your past, but you can change

42:55

the future. And I wasted 20 years a mile

42:57

after I'd been in the ball and changed the past with me and

42:59

trying to drag it into the future and blame me around and around

43:01

me because of circumstances

43:04

that I had no control of.

43:06

Can I ask you just a couple of quick things while I got you

43:08

here Chris? Please. Because you just mentioned briefly a couple

43:10

of things. The first is that you had a passport

43:13

issued in the name of Willy

43:15

Wooters. Correct. Yeah. And

43:18

effectively that meant, you know, he was your,

43:20

he could pretend or show that he was your

43:23

legal father, your legal guardian.

43:25

Well, back then he was, yeah.

43:27

Yeah. I guess my mother must have had something to do with that, you

43:30

know, or I don't know, they had

43:32

no idea how that all worked out. But,

43:35

you know, I had to go into Hungary and

43:37

basically say that I was, you know, his

43:39

son and

43:41

had the birth certificate, even though I was born

43:43

in Belgium, in Ternay. Ternay, yeah.

43:46

Yeah, that's right, man. It was, it was not

43:48

my real name and not my identity. And the

43:50

purpose of that you think was to get you

43:52

safely out of Europe to Australia? I think

43:54

that, you know, my mum wanted to get away from her.

43:57

But apparently, she

45:47

there

46:00

and you know, because I remember being

46:02

in Belgium as a young kid, I remember going to kindergarten

46:04

in Belgium, you know, started going to school there, that

46:06

sort of a thing. I remember my uncle,

46:09

because he died very young as well, which is interesting.

46:11

He was in the Special Forces, my

46:14

uncle. He was only

46:16

like in his 20s or something when he died late 20s.

46:18

This is a tiller.

46:20

Yeah, a tiller, correct. Yeah, that

46:22

is odd. So, you know, based on my mum

46:24

and him dying young. Well, he didn't have scarlet fever

46:26

as well, did he? No. So

46:28

it's not genetic. It's not scarlet

46:31

fever in both cases. So it is odd. Well,

46:34

that's why they say, you know, they never did a toxicology

46:36

report and even was pushing

46:38

for it. They were asking questions. Why was on

46:40

toxicology report done?

46:42

Well, I wanted to ask you about

46:44

that again, because it took nine months

46:46

or longer. And the

46:48

reason we know that is because there was a law

46:51

firm, Morris Blackburn,

46:53

who apparently were acting on behalf

46:55

of Ilona's dependents, which

46:58

I can only guess

46:59

would be you, your sister, and maybe

47:01

Michael for a

47:04

workers compensation claim.

47:06

Maybe I'm guessing because Ilona

47:08

was driving home from work, although

47:10

I'm not sure

47:12

how that would cover having a

47:14

stroke or a heart attack in a car.

47:16

But anyway, I'm reading these. I've got these letters in front

47:18

of me and they're backwards and forwards to

47:21

the coroner saying, where's the

47:23

coroner's report? Where's all the toxicology?

47:25

And apparently it just wasn't done for months and

47:27

months. And there was a big the Ombudsman got involved.

47:29

And finally, it was done.

47:32

But

47:32

it appears that they really didn't come up with much in

47:34

the way of answers. Well, by that time, it was too

47:36

late. Yeah, I think because

47:39

it took so long, by the time they got around to

47:41

it, it was too late to even do toxicology

47:43

report. Yeah. I mean, the report of death

47:45

for the coroner just says apparent cause heart

47:47

attack. And you look for some more detail because

47:49

that's a very broad

47:51

category of things that can actually kill.

47:54

And it says there

47:56

was there was no infarction. The pulmonary

47:58

system showed a clear trachea and Bronchia.

48:01

There was gruel-like material in the stomach.

48:03

I mean, it doesn't really nail

48:05

down the cause of this supposed heart

48:07

incident that led to her death

48:10

in a car on the side of the road. What

48:12

I can ask you about is that

48:14

apparently there was some kind of settlement reached

48:17

and some money paid to

48:19

Michael that I'm guessing should have been in part

48:21

yours. I received a small

48:24

inheritance from my mother

48:25

when I was 18. There's a whole lot of

48:27

questions because, you know, even my grandmother

48:30

remarried to a guy called Joseph. So

48:33

they fled Hungary during... Joseph Beero?

48:36

Yeah, so they fled Hungary in 1956 or whatever

48:38

it was when Russia invaded and got out and started

48:40

New Life in Belgium. And so we ended... I

48:43

think my grandmother and this Joseph

48:45

Beero guy owned apartments

48:48

in Belgium. Yeah. The plot

48:50

thickens because

48:51

my grandmother, they

48:54

owned these apartments. I remember I had

48:56

to get it interpreted. I received

48:59

some correspondence in the mail regarding

49:02

an

49:02

inheritance. But what

49:04

a state it was that... I

49:07

don't know how true it is, but looking back at Nazar and naive,

49:09

didn't really understand it now, look back and I kind of go,

49:11

I should have challenged that freshly really got into it.

49:14

Chris explains he did get a payout

49:16

from his mother's will, but he's

49:18

confused about what that entailed.

49:20

Evelyn says they did receive some money

49:22

from their grandmother's inheritance, but that

49:25

was after a private agreement was made and

49:27

she doesn't know the details. So

49:29

when I told my dad that he was like, what,

49:32

really? Yeah. He definitely

49:34

received it. We know he did. Yeah,

49:36

so my understanding of that, Chris, is that

49:38

you should

49:39

have got a healthy

49:41

sum from the property there. But

49:44

I think Joseph Beero ended up selling

49:46

it and moving to the country with

49:49

his new wife. Yeah. Yeah.

49:52

If I can just say just from an outsider

49:55

that, you know, you and your sister, I just

49:57

wish you both

49:58

the very best going forward. because you've

50:01

actually gone through and survived as

50:03

little children, extremely

50:06

traumatic and unusual circumstances.

50:09

It doesn't get much worse

50:11

and to actually survive that is enough.

50:13

But to actually thrive and

50:15

as you say, heal and build a life

50:18

and make a life for yourself

50:20

and you're a dad of five now and a business

50:23

owner, I mean,

50:25

that's pretty rare. It's very hard to do. So

50:27

I just hope both

50:29

of you can cut yourself a bit of slack going forward. Oh,

50:33

definitely.

50:35

Well, I think for

50:37

me, like a sort of my tie-ways,

50:39

you do get to a point where

50:41

I'm 51 in July and I'm

50:44

only a young fella

50:46

and I've got everything's

50:48

ahead of my life. There's

50:51

nothing to stop me from doing anything

50:53

I want to and that's all I say to anyone out

50:56

there who's probably gonna listen to this is, you know, it's

50:59

easy to get stuck and I'll

51:01

stuck for a long time. But, you know, at the end of the day,

51:04

it only takes one position. You're

51:06

only one position away from turning things around and

51:09

there are so many doors that are waiting for

51:13

anyone in this position to open.

51:15

But what happens is when you get stuck, you don't, you

51:17

look through a narrow door and then

51:19

you actually stop looking

51:21

at the other doors that are around you that are

51:23

all waiting for someone to be open because you're so stuck on

51:26

this one thing. Yeah, and well

51:28

said, Chris. And at the start

51:30

of this conversation, you asked me about your mum

51:32

and I just wondered if you

51:35

had some suspicions about the circumstances

51:37

of how she passed away. Do

51:40

you? Of course I do. Of course I do because

51:42

that toxicology report, you know, I guess I'm

51:45

a bit,

51:45

you know, the timing of him coming back. What

51:48

happened with my sister with the champagne bottle and those sorts of things,

51:50

you know, I was around at the time

51:53

and it was just too uncanny. It was just weird.

51:56

And in the end, we'll never know. And I guess it's one of those

51:59

questions that. you know

52:01

she's been buried for too long now and you can't even

52:03

go back and you

52:04

know exhume her to go through the process

52:06

so

52:07

you know

52:08

it's just it was poorly handled there

52:11

was a settlement well you know

52:14

good luck to dead about it you know you

52:16

could at least put a headstone on my mother's grave it didn't never

52:18

do that I mean that's the thing it gets

52:20

me and I will do that one day I love

52:22

myself so you know I guess I just

52:25

yeah I just guess that it

52:28

is what it is yeah life goes

52:30

on mate life goes on like I don't I

52:32

don't see the one earring every day but there is a

52:34

part of me that we've spoken and when I have these conversations

52:37

and it is brought up in this context that

52:39

then I kind of get here well actually would like to know a little

52:41

bit and if there's more if there's more out there come

52:44

back to me and let me know but otherwise I'm

52:46

not gonna sit here you know spending hours

52:48

and hours trying to you know find out

52:51

myself because I just don't have the time of the energy I've got my family

52:53

to take care of my children

52:55

and that's my focus on my business

52:57

and you know taking care of my you know I've

53:00

got dreams and I want to say those dreams

53:02

fulfilled so you know life's too short as you know

53:04

yep and thanks for talking to me Chris I wish you

53:06

all the best going forward mate thank you

53:08

man I appreciate your time

53:14

to sum up Chris says that within

53:16

weeks of his mother dying his father

53:18

could not cope

53:19

and he and Evelyn were both put in homes

53:22

there was no funeral for Alona

53:25

and no headstone to mark her

53:27

grave to

53:28

this day

53:31

he wonders how his mother died and

53:34

his uncle just a short time later

53:38

he says a relative told him Alona remained

53:40

in love with Willie even after

53:42

they separated and she met Michael

53:45

our

53:47

investigation continues

53:51

meanwhile many listeners have asked us about

53:53

what happened when Diane DeHedivry

53:56

was confronted by spotlights Liam

53:58

Bartlett mrs. DeHedivry

53:59

How are you? Well,

54:02

here it is. Liam Bartlett from 7 News

54:04

Spotlight. Do you mind if we just

54:07

have a quick chat to you? We

54:09

just want to ask you a couple of questions about your husband. Did

54:13

you have any idea that your husband was involved

54:16

with the exploitation of

54:18

so many women over the years? Mrs.

54:20

De Headevery? Mrs.

54:23

De Headevery,

54:25

we just want to ask you how terrible it must

54:27

have been for you. Do you

54:30

mind just having a quick chat to us? Do you

54:32

mind having a quick chat to us please, madam?

54:36

Mrs. De Headevery, why

54:39

won't you talk to us?

54:46

Following our trip to Belgium and Luxembourg,

54:49

the Spotlight Special and the release of these

54:51

past five episodes, a variety

54:54

of new leads have emerged. It

54:57

will take us a bit of time to properly

54:59

investigate them but rest assured

55:01

we will keep you posted every step

55:04

of the way.

55:06

Until next time.

55:20

If you

55:20

knew Marion or have any information

55:22

about her or who we're about, we'd

55:24

love to hear from you. Our website

55:26

is 7news.com.au slash

55:29

news slash The Lady Vanishers and

55:32

you can also message us here. You can

55:34

also send us an anonymous tip at

55:37

theladyvanishers.org.

55:43

If you like what you're hearing don't forget to subscribe.

55:46

Please rate and review our series. It helps

55:49

new listeners find us. Presenter

55:52

and executive producer Alison Sandy,

55:55

investigative journalist Brian Seymour,

55:57

writer and producer Sally Eales.

55:59

Sound Design, Mark Wright Graphics,

56:03

Jason Blandford Translation and

56:05

Transcripts, Estelle Sanchez Voice

56:08

Actors, Aurelien Ritter, Veronique

56:10

Durcell and the Brisbane 7 Newsroom

56:15

The theme and much of the music by

56:17

Nicolas Gasparini at thedarkpiano.com

56:22

Thanks again to the Alliance Français

56:27

This is a 7 News Production It's

56:30

a 7 News Production Thanks again

56:33

to the Alliance Français For more information,

56:35

visit us at www.cst.com Thanks again to the Alliance Français For

56:39

more information, visit us at www.cst.com