0:17

Hey , leader , and welcome to another episode of the L3

0:19

Leadership Podcast , where we are obsessed with helping

0:22

you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize

0:24

the impact of your leadership . My name is Doug

0:26

Smith and I am your host , and today's episode is brought

0:28

to you by my friends at Beratung Advisors . We

0:31

also recorded this live from the new Bergo Realty

0:33

Studio . If you're new to the podcast

0:35

, welcome . I'm so glad that you're here and I hope that you enjoy

0:37

our content and become a subscriber . Know

0:39

that you can also watch all of our episodes over on our YouTube

0:41

channel , so make sure you're subscribed there as well . And

0:44

, as always , if you've been listening to the podcast and

0:46

it's made an impact on your life , it would mean the world

0:48

to me . If you leave a rating and review on Apple Podcast

0:50

or Spotify or wherever you listen

0:53

to podcasts through , that really does help us to grow our

0:55

audience and reach more leaders , so thank you in advance

0:57

for that All . Leader , in this week's

0:59

episode , you're going to hear my conversation with Leon Ford

1:01

, and if you do not know Leon , you are in for

1:03

a treat . I've been hearing about

1:05

him for years that I need to meet with him , and

1:07

I had the opportunity to have

1:09

lunch with him in fall last year

1:12

, and having lunch with him was one of the top five

1:14

highlights of my year . He's

1:16

that powerful and his story is that powerful . But

1:18

I don't want to ruin anything , because he's going to share a

1:20

lot of his story in this conversation

1:23

and so I'll let you get to know Leon . But

1:25

here's what I can promise you you're going to be inspired , you're

1:27

going to be challenged , you're going to fall in love with Leon . He is incredible

1:30

. But before we dive into his story

1:32

, just a few announcements . This episode

1:34

of the L3 Leadership Podcast is sponsored by

1:36

Beratung Advisors . The financial advisors

1:38

at Beratung Advisors help educate and empower

1:41

clients to make informed financial decisions

1:43

. You can find out how Beratung Advisors

1:45

can help you develop a customized financial

1:47

plan for your financial future by visiting

1:49

their website at wwwberatungadvisorscom

1:51

that's B-E-R-A-T-U-N-G-Advisorscom

1:56

. These investment products

1:58

and services offered through LPL Financial

2:00

, member of FINRA and SIPC , Beratung

2:02

Advisors , LPL Financial and L3 Leadership

2:04

are separate entities . I

2:07

also want to thank our sponsor , Henne Jewelers . They're a jeweler

2:09

earned by my friend and mentor , john Henne , and

2:11

my wife Laura and I got our engagement and wedding rings

2:13

through Henne Jewelers and had an incredible experience

2:15

. And not only do they have great jewelry

2:17

, but they also invest in people . In fact , for every

2:20

couple that comes in and gays , they give them a book to

2:22

help them prepare for marriage , and we just love that . So

2:24

if you're in need of a good jeweler , check out HenneJewelerscom

2:27

. And with all that being said , let's dive right

2:30

in . Here's my conversation with Leon Ford

2:32

. Well

2:35

, Leon Ford , welcome to the L3 Leadership Podcast

2:37

. It made it such a joy to get to

2:39

know you . We had lunch maybe

2:42

two months ago , and I was telling many

2:44

people since that that was one of the highlights of my year

2:46

in 2023 . And it's just

2:48

such an honor to get to know you . And obviously

2:51

, after meeting you and hearing your story , I'm

2:53

like everyone on the planet needs to hear this

2:55

, and so really look forward to the conversation , brother

2:57

.

2:58

Oh man , thank you , doug , and you know

3:00

your leadership and everything

3:02

you're doing with L3 is very inspirational

3:04

, so I'm happy to be a part

3:07

of the family . Man , let's

3:09

go , let's go .

3:10

Well , let's dive in , and again

3:12

, I've kind of shared , but you have an incredible

3:14

story which has actually been documented in a book that you

3:16

came out with last year called An Unspeakable

3:19

Hope , and the tagline is brutality

3:21

, forgiveness and building a better

3:24

future for my son , and so that's

3:26

what I'll then go out there for listeners

3:28

, and why don't you just kind of unpack that for us

3:30

with your story ?

3:31

Absolutely so . When I was 19

3:34

years old I was shot five times

3:36

by Pittsburgh police officer Once

3:39

in my neck , two times in my chest

3:41

, once in my arm and once in my hip

3:44

and one of the

3:46

bullets I went through my chest actually paralyzed

3:48

me . So can't see it now because

3:50

you know we're like chest up , but

3:52

I'm actually sitting

3:54

in a wheelchair right

3:56

now . So I lost my ability

3:59

to walk and so that

4:01

speaks to the

4:04

brutality aspect . I

4:06

became a activist

4:09

, you know , did a lot of organizing

4:12

locally and nationally , but

4:16

along my journey , you know , found forgiveness

4:20

, you know , and I'm sure will unpack

4:22

that , you know , within this

4:24

interview . But

4:27

you know I was able to , you

4:29

know , open my heart

4:32

up to forgive , and now I

4:34

work with police officers . I've trained police

4:36

officers and co-founded

4:40

a foundation alongside

4:43

the former police chief here

4:45

in Pittsburgh .

4:47

Wow , what's the foundation called ?

4:48

It's called the hear foundation and

4:52

the name of the foundation comes from

4:54

this idea that we

4:56

don't have all the answers you

4:59

know , and so we're actively listening

5:01

to community , to their needs

5:03

, and not just you

5:06

know , the community , but also what

5:08

are the needs of our police

5:11

officers ?

5:11

Yeah , Well , we'll

5:13

unpack that a little bit later , but you just kind

5:15

of shared an overview of your story , which

5:18

is incredible . But you know that was

5:20

quite a journey and so you know

5:23

, I want to kind of dive in . You know , after you

5:25

got shot , you know you

5:27

sounded so nonchalantly like I eventually

5:29

forgave . You know , did the next day you wake up

5:31

and say , oh , it's no big deal ? You know , hey , I forgive

5:33

you , it's all good . Like , what was that

5:36

journey to forgiveness ? Like , did you

5:38

, did you deal with bitterness ? Did you deal with

5:40

frustration , depression , like , walk us

5:42

through you know , the months and years

5:44

after that happened ?

5:46

Oh , yeah , it was , you know , certainly

5:49

years of depression

5:51

, years of resentment

5:53

, years of anger , years

5:55

of hatred . You know I

5:58

, you know there

6:00

were moments where I felt completely consumed

6:03

by hatred . Now I remember

6:05

vividly , you know , waking

6:09

up in the hospital and looking

6:11

up the article

6:14

about me being shot and

6:16

it said black teen shot by a white police

6:19

officer . And

6:21

I remember going to read the

6:23

comments and the comments

6:25

were extremely racist

6:28

, you know , racial comments about me

6:30

, about my family , you

6:33

know , and it was heartbreaking . And

6:35

so in that moment I told myself

6:37

that I not only hated police

6:39

officers but I hated white people

6:42

. Wow . And However

6:46

, my nurses and

6:48

my doctors were so nice

6:50

to me , they took such good care

6:52

of me and I credit

6:55

them , along with my

6:57

sixth grade teacher , Ms

7:00

Shank , who came to visit me , for

7:03

helping to soften my heart , and

7:05

they didn't know it at the time , but

7:07

I felt this deep hatred to all

7:10

white people and I said to myself

7:12

, well , I hate all white people , but Ms

7:14

Shank , you know

7:16

, and I hate all white people , but

7:18

you know my nurses

7:21

and my doctors , and

7:24

so you know that experience

7:28

really helped keep my heart open

7:30

and eventually I was

7:32

, you know , open to , you

7:34

know , going to the Pittsburgh friends

7:37

meeting and building

7:39

a relationship with the Quakers here

7:41

in Pittsburgh , which , you

7:44

know , when I went , it was predominantly white

7:47

people . And

7:49

then I would meet some , you

7:51

know , police officers who

7:54

, you know , saw

7:56

my humanity and they would

7:58

, you know , talk to me and they would say , man

8:00

, this is , you know , wrong , would you experience

8:03

, and things like that . And so

8:05

, you know , I took a liking to

8:07

those people when I realized that , you

8:10

know , sometimes we experience things

8:12

in life that makes us , you

8:14

know , judge an entire group

8:16

of people which

8:19

is , you know , sometimes , you know

8:21

it could be justified to that person experiencing

8:25

that pain . And so , you

8:27

know , now , as I , you know

8:29

, navigate life , I'm

8:31

very intentional about , you

8:33

know , showing up with kindness

8:36

, with grace

8:38

and wisdom when

8:40

I interact with people , because you never know what

8:43

their experience has been

8:45

and how they may feel about

8:47

a group that you represent . It

8:49

may not be you , you know , but

8:52

you know trauma is trauma , man

8:54

, and you know , people have experienced

8:57

, you know , different trauma

8:59

on different levels , and

9:02

so those experiences really

9:04

helped me become more compassionate . But

9:07

it took years , bro , like I'm

9:09

talking . I'm

9:12

talking five or six years of

9:16

, you know of this dance between

9:18

hope and despair

9:20

. And the hope led

9:23

me to want to

9:25

, you know , embrace people and build relationships

9:28

. But then that despair , you

9:30

know that's where that hatred came

9:33

, you know , and the

9:35

resentment , and

9:38

it was like a pendulum , bro . It was

9:40

like you know , some days I would

9:42

be talking about healing and hope

9:44

and inspiration , and in other

9:47

days I was just in such a

9:49

dark place that I didn't even , you

9:51

know , I didn't even want to live , you know

9:54

. You know I struggled with , you

9:56

know , those , you

9:58

know , negative thoughts of not even wanting to

10:01

be alive , bro . So it was tough .

10:04

Yeah , and I would love to and I'm so sorry that

10:06

you had to go through that . But

10:09

on the other end of that , you

10:11

know , one day you were better , the other day there

10:13

was hope . And I feel like there's so many

10:15

people listening to this . You know we

10:17

all , we say all the time at light of life that the average

10:19

adult , by the time they reach adulthood , has

10:21

had at least one traumatic experience . And

10:24

you know , for light of life , oftentimes the men and

10:26

women walking through our doors have experienced three or four by the time

10:28

they're 18 . And then multiple thereafter . And

10:31

just with the mental health crisis in our nation , I

10:33

mean , I feel like so many people have experienced so many

10:35

things and I feel like they walk that same

10:37

line that you were walking and I feel like

10:39

if they feed the bitterness end , then they're going

10:41

to get on one path . If they feed the hope end , what

10:44

advice would you have for

10:46

someone , regardless of what they've experienced , who's

10:49

walking that line ? What would you tell that person listening

10:51

today ?

10:53

Well one . I would encourage

10:56

them to stay as close

10:58

as possible to

11:00

the people who are bringing light into

11:02

their lives . Right

11:05

, you know I talk a lot about

11:07

mentorship . You know , and

11:09

I was able to seek out , you know

11:11

, positive mentors who would

11:13

pour into me wisdom

11:16

. You know , spirituality , love

11:18

, compassion , understanding . They

11:21

would make space for me and encourage

11:23

me . I really needed that . I

11:26

would read , you know , literature that

11:29

was encouraging and inspirational

11:31

. I would

11:33

be mindful of the music that I listened to . You know

11:35

I would only listen

11:38

to positive music and

11:40

positive podcasts . I

11:42

would stay away from , you know

11:44

, any negative music . You

11:47

know people , you

11:49

know who you know had

11:52

a more of a negative perspective of life , people

11:55

who were doing the wrong things . And you know

11:57

it's interesting because I

11:59

would simultaneously

12:02

grow as a leader as

12:05

I was healing from the inside

12:08

out . I

12:10

also go to therapy . You know , talking

12:13

to someone professional , you

12:17

know , was very instrumental

12:20

in my growth . And I would

12:22

also say that talking

12:24

to professionals helped my

12:27

relationships right , even with loved

12:29

ones , because once , you

12:31

know , I began going to therapy , my

12:34

brother became my brother and

12:36

my sister became my sister . My cousins

12:39

were just my cousins . You know , my

12:41

parents were my parents . They weren't my

12:43

therapist . You know , and

12:45

oftentimes you know we lean

12:47

on friends . It's interesting , I

12:50

have friends right now who lean on me to

12:53

have conversations that they would have

12:55

with a therapist but

12:57

they say they would never go to therapy . And

13:01

so the benefit of you

13:03

know , finding a good therapist and having those

13:05

conversations is that you get

13:07

to really enjoy

13:11

those relationships , you know , on

13:13

a deeper level , without

13:16

you know sharing that trauma . You

13:19

know , and you know you could work through that

13:21

trauma with your therapist

13:24

instead of unpacking them with your loved

13:26

ones who's now carrying it with

13:28

them wherever they go . You

13:31

know I've become a better

13:33

friend . I've become a better

13:35

leader , more thoughtful , more compassionate

13:38

and understanding .

13:41

I love that and you know , one of our core values

13:43

at L3 is community . We always say that no leader

13:45

should ever do life alone , but in community , and who

13:47

you spend time with , as you just said , is

13:49

extremely important , regardless of what you've gone through

13:51

. If you surround yourself with negative people who are bitter , that's

13:54

the path you're gonna go . If you surround yourself with positive

13:56

people who fill you with hope and encouragement

13:58

, that's the direction you're gonna go . And you

14:00

know I always tell people that the community you

14:02

need is one in which you're fully known , fully

14:04

loved and fully challenged . And

14:08

fully known is just , you could be yourself , share

14:10

anything . Fully loved is you're gonna be loved unconditionally

14:12

, regardless . But the third part and I

14:14

want you to share a story here is fully challenged

14:17

, and I basically tell people you know sometimes we

14:19

need a hug and a pat on the back , but other times

14:21

we need slapped in the face . And I

14:23

know you had a circumstance come up where

14:25

you went on a social media

14:27

rant and I believe a few mentors

14:30

who loved you fully and know you fully

14:32

also challenged you fully and that ended

14:34

up changing your life . Can you share that story ? Absolutely

14:36

?

14:38

So , after George

14:41

Floyd was murdered , I remember

14:43

our former

14:45

mayor , bill Puduto

14:47

, and the former police chief , scott

14:49

Schubert . They had a press

14:52

conference on the news and

14:55

you know something about this press

14:57

conference triggered me and

15:00

I went to Twitter

15:02

, which is now X and

15:05

I kind of went

15:07

on this rant . I did , I went

15:09

on it , not

15:11

kind of yeah , that's funny I went

15:14

on a rant and called

15:16

them racists , you know , called

15:18

the mayor racist , called the chief racist

15:20

. I said they didn't care about

15:23

black people and all these things . The

15:25

interesting thing about that is

15:28

there was

15:30

, like this instant gratification to

15:34

be divisive , because

15:37

each of those tweets got

15:39

hundreds of retweets , right

15:41

, and so I was kind of encouraged

15:44

to dive deeper into

15:46

that darkness , right . However

15:50

, two people reached out

15:52

to me . One

15:55

was John Henney of

15:58

Henney Jewelers , who

16:00

was , you know , near

16:02

and dear to my heart and he's like

16:04

one of my closest mentors , and

16:09

he basically said hey , you know

16:11

, do you really think , you know , bill

16:14

was racist , you know . And

16:16

I was like , yeah , you know , no-transcript

16:20

. He challenged me on that . I

16:23

don't think he's racist and

16:26

I would love for you to

16:29

sit down with him . Have you ever sat down

16:31

with him ? And I had not . And

16:34

John basically facilitated

16:38

a meeting between

16:40

Bill Padooto

16:43

Dan Gilman was there and

16:45

myself and we just

16:47

hit it off . I mean , bill , just

16:49

he just texted

16:51

me today his article that

16:54

he wrote . But

16:57

you know we're friends . You know , make

17:00

a long story shorter . John

17:02

challenged me and I've

17:05

become friends with , you know , someone

17:08

that I completely tried

17:10

to destroy on social media . And

17:12

the same thing with Laura . You know she

17:15

reached out to me have you ever sat

17:17

down with the chief ? And at that

17:19

point I had not and she facilitated

17:22

a lunch with

17:24

our former chief , scott Schubert

17:26

and I and we became

17:28

friends and out of that friendship

17:30

we were able to , you

17:33

know , several months later , you

17:35

know , we begin having conversations

17:37

about collaborating

17:40

on a project and that

17:42

project eventually became the

17:45

here foundation that we co-founded together

17:47

, and our first year we

17:49

raised over $2

17:51

million . Last year

17:53

we gave out over

17:56

$300,000

17:59

across , I believe , 18

18:01

different organizations , and so

18:04

you know , I won an event . You

18:06

know my mentors , you know they brought

18:09

me into the light and a lot

18:11

of good came out of me being open

18:13

to sitting down with people I thought

18:16

you know negatively about

18:18

.

18:19

Yeah , and I want you to . I do instead of

18:21

I want to . I want you to take us to

18:23

those meetings , whether it was lunch or coffee or whatever

18:25

. You know when you're one

18:28

, you know . When John said , do you really think that

18:30

you need to have a meeting ? Like what

18:33

were you feeling going into the meeting ? Like

18:35

, was there fear , was there anger ? And

18:38

then when you actually sat down , like

18:40

what was ? What was that experience

18:42

like ? To get to the point where it went from

18:45

your racist hey , now we're buddies

18:47

and let's do something together .

18:49

Yeah , one

18:52

. I trust

18:54

both , you know , john

18:56

and Laura . You

18:58

know I trust them too with my life

19:00

, and so I knew

19:02

, you know this , these

19:04

meetings were being facilitated by

19:07

people who genuinely cared about me

19:09

. There was no ulterior motive

19:11

, it wasn't political , there

19:14

wasn't going to be cameras and all these

19:16

things , and I believe

19:19

that , you know , bill

19:21

Puduto , dan Gilman and Scott

19:24

Schubert felt the

19:26

same way . So trust was at the

19:28

root of the

19:30

, the meeting or exchange . And

19:34

so , going to the meeting with Bill

19:38

and Dan , I

19:40

had this level of like openness . You

19:43

know , I didn't . I didn't have any expectations

19:45

, but I was open

19:48

to the idea that they

19:50

may not be racist . You

19:52

know , I was open to the idea

19:54

that they could be good

19:57

people . I believe that openness came

19:59

partly from my trust

20:01

and , john , you

20:04

know , and I

20:06

remember sitting down and saying

20:08

, you know , I didn't

20:11

really have a desire to talk about

20:13

the past . You know , this wasn't

20:15

a meeting where I just wanted to say

20:17

you know , this is how I

20:19

felt . You know , when I was shot and things

20:22

like that , you know I I

20:25

said , you know I remember saying

20:27

you know , I want to talk about the future

20:29

. You know , I want to talk about how

20:31

we can , you know , do good

20:33

things and prevent this from happening again . And

20:37

they had this very similar perspective

20:39

and

20:41

we talked about solutions

20:44

. That was , I mean

20:46

, that's it Like we . You know it's

20:48

beautiful we dove

20:50

right into solutions and

20:52

they acknowledged my pain

20:54

, you know , and

20:57

they share . You know some things about . You

20:59

know the decisions you

21:01

know they have to make as leaders and you

21:03

know how complicated it is and you

21:05

know how , when you , when

21:08

they try to appease this group , they pissed

21:10

this group off and you

21:12

know all the political things

21:14

and they , you know , broke it

21:16

down to me in a way that you know

21:18

, I really understood , you

21:21

know , and I wouldn't say

21:23

we came out of that group like hugging

21:25

each other , but

21:28

it was , it was the follow up , it was

21:30

a step Right , you

21:33

know the openness , you know text messages

21:36

and phone calls , you

21:38

know that really helped us , you

21:40

know , build that bond , you know . And

21:42

the same thing with Scott . I

21:45

would say , you know

21:47

I was a little bit more aloof

21:50

going into the

21:52

meeting with Scott and

21:54

that was just because

21:56

he was a police officer , right

21:58

, you know him , you know being a chief

22:01

of police , his badge , you know , I'm

22:03

like man . I don't trust any police officers

22:05

, but

22:09

it was interesting because I

22:13

didn't meet . I didn't have a meeting

22:15

with Chief Schubert , I

22:18

had a meeting with Scott and

22:22

that made the

22:24

biggest difference in the world , you

22:26

know , and he shared his story , I

22:30

shared my story . He shared his love for Pittsburgh

22:32

and for his father , who was a Pittsburgh

22:34

police officer , and how he looked up to his

22:37

father and that's what inspired him

22:39

to become a police officer . I

22:41

mean , we had so many similarities

22:44

in our stories and

22:47

I think that is what

22:50

really opened up my heart . You know

22:52

, to . You know

22:54

, get to a place where I

22:56

consider , you know , scott , a friend and

22:58

was open to , you know , collaborating

23:01

with them around the here foundation .

23:04

Yeah , there's so much I want to unpack there . The first

23:06

question that comes in my mind is just what

23:08

did you learn through this journey about judging

23:11

or judging others ? You know

23:13

, I feel like we live in a culture where that's all we do , right

23:16

? It's like whether it's judging someone and we're

23:18

judging all these people . We don't know , we don't know their intentions

23:20

. We're judging them based on one little snippet

23:22

of their life or one decision , Like I'm just curious

23:24

, what have you learned about judging and what advice would you

23:26

give to people who

23:28

may judge often and get the retweets and get excited

23:30

and you know yeah , yeah

23:33

, I would encourage people not to fall

23:35

victim to the instant gratification

23:37

of division .

23:39

It's easy to

23:42

choose a side and

23:44

, you know , feel

23:47

good because you're getting retweets or

23:49

comments by people who think similarly

23:52

as you . And

23:54

you know it takes real

23:56

leadership to think

23:58

outside of the box and

24:01

to lean into solutions , right

24:04

, and so you know , I'd encourage

24:06

people to become more open-minded

24:08

, to ask questions , to

24:11

use their curiosity , right

24:14

. A lot of times people credit my

24:16

courage for some of the decisions

24:18

I make as a leader , but

24:21

I would say , and

24:23

I believe , that it's

24:26

more curiosity than courage

24:29

, right , because I'm genuinely

24:31

curious to understand

24:34

what someone else's lived

24:37

experiences may

24:39

have been , to let them to see the

24:41

world the way they see the world . I

24:43

understand , you know I see the world , you

24:46

know , through a different lens than you may see the

24:48

world , doug , based on where

24:50

I grew up , who I grew up with

24:52

. Different parts of

24:55

my experience that I hold on to . This

24:58

part of me , that I hold on

25:00

to that social

25:02

norms may say is wrong

25:05

, right , but the conditioning

25:07

was so strong in my upbringing

25:10

that it's hard for me to let go

25:12

of these beliefs

25:14

and I challenged myself on

25:16

them , beliefs , you know , every

25:19

time I find myself leaning

25:23

into that belief , I'm like , hey , you

25:26

know , I have to check myself because of self-awareness

25:29

, right , and so I would also

25:31

encourage people to give themselves grace . Right

25:34

, and not grace at a point you become complacent

25:36

in your beliefs , but grace

25:38

to understand that it takes

25:40

time to unpack and

25:43

unlearn many things

25:45

that we learned through

25:47

our social conditioning , and

25:50

so give yourself grace , but also

25:52

be intentional about unlearning

25:54

and relearning different

25:57

things about society , so

26:00

that you don't find yourself judging people

26:02

.

26:02

That's so good . You know our executive

26:04

director at Light of Life , joe Gilliams , a

26:06

mentor in my life and

26:08

as I stepped into a new role under him . He

26:10

just said lead with curiosity

26:13

. And he said let me give you three beautiful

26:15

words to lead with . Help

26:17

me understand , don't

26:20

go in trying to do all , just hey . Help me understand what you

26:22

do , help me understand your perspective and

26:25

man , that's been so beautiful and

26:27

just with you . Know what you've been sharing and the meetings that you

26:29

had . You know I heard Mr Rogers

26:31

said once that there isn't a person

26:33

on the planet that you couldn't learn to love if

26:36

you just heard their story . Do

26:38

you agree with that ?

26:39

Absolutely , you know , even

26:42

so

26:44

I explore and I

26:46

play with this idea of

26:48

generous curiosity . And

26:51

so , to that point , just

26:53

imagine if we let our curiosity take

26:57

us to look at

26:59

the five-year-old you know

27:01

version of

27:03

, you know , a world leader who

27:06

may have caused a lot of destruction , right

27:09

, that five-year-old version you know

27:11

may have had a Tunk of Truck

27:14

or some type of doll and was a typical

27:16

kid , right ? So what

27:18

happened in between being

27:21

a five-year-old with a doll

27:23

or a truck or a teddy bear to

27:26

you know , growing up , to you know

27:28

, take a life , right

27:30

. And I think if we

27:33

became more curious to

27:35

unpack , you

27:38

know , the conditioning of what had

27:40

to happen in between

27:42

those two points of life . One

27:45

, we could understand the thinking of

27:48

, you know , these

27:50

people who grow up to be violent

27:53

. And two

27:55

, we can maybe catch

27:57

, you know

27:59

, save their hearts

28:02

, right , or save their minds before

28:04

they get to a point of committing

28:07

a violent act . But it takes

28:09

curiosity . Too often

28:12

we are reactive

28:15

, you know , and we see people

28:17

acting out , you know , in

28:20

the media , or we see , you know

28:22

, people going to prison for different

28:24

things and we lock them away

28:26

, you know . And

28:28

my perspective is more

28:30

, how could we be preventative

28:33

, right ? How can we show up and

28:35

get people what they need before

28:39

their hearts become hardened or before

28:41

they lose hope in

28:45

the world ?

28:46

Yeah , that's so good . Another

28:49

one unpack is just unforgiveness , and

28:51

forgive me if I don't remember something up my head , but I believe

28:53

, though the police officer that shot you , he kept

28:55

his job correct Is he

28:57

. Did you ever meet with him in reconcile , and I

28:59

can- .

29:00

Yeah , yep , yep , yep . So

29:03

I met with the officer who shot me

29:05

. Well , I think that was maybe two

29:07

years ago , wow , and

29:10

everybody thought I was crazy . Yeah

29:12

, yeah , but it was

29:14

really curiosity

29:17

, right , like to your

29:19

mentor's point . You know , can

29:21

you help me understand , you

29:24

know , and

29:27

not in a sense of like

29:30

you know , this

29:34

need for some

29:37

type of retribution or accountability

29:39

or anything like that , but I

29:42

genuinely wanted to understand . You know

29:44

how and why . You

29:46

know , how did this happen ? Why did this happen

29:49

? Because , from my perspective

29:51

you

29:54

know , the two of us we're the ones

29:56

that you know had this moment

29:58

on the side of the road and

30:01

if we were able to unpack

30:04

what happened without , you

30:07

know , attorneys of involved

30:09

, you

30:12

know , my perspective is like we have the

30:14

answers right , we have the solution To

30:17

you know , to see , you know , what type

30:19

of training could be done . You

30:21

know what type of awareness can we

30:23

create , you know , within community Again

30:27

, to prevent this from happening again . And

30:29

so , you know , I've met with , over

30:32

the years , several different police officers

30:35

who knew the

30:37

officer who shot me and they

30:39

kind of help , you know , facilitate

30:42

it , you know . And so there

30:44

was a pastor there and and

30:47

a Commander , who's now a

30:49

chief for Duquesne

30:52

University , and we

30:54

, we got to talk , you know , we got

30:56

to talk about solutions , we

30:58

got to talk about his experience

31:01

after the shooting game

31:03

in mind , and

31:06

it was a very interesting discussion

31:08

because In

31:12

many ways I never considered and

31:15

you know , my pain wouldn't

31:17

allow me to consider what

31:19

he may have went through , and

31:22

so hearing it from him was

31:25

Very out opening

31:27

.

31:28

Wow , and I'm assuming

31:30

that you've come to a place where you've forgiven him , if you're

31:32

willing to meet him . What have

31:34

you learned about forgiveness through this whole process , because

31:37

I'm sure many people are dealing with unforgiveness

31:39

listening to this .

31:41

Yeah , I forget . This is a choice , right

31:44

, but it's also not

31:47

Like , it's not a

31:49

threshold that you cross , it's not a finished

31:51

line . You don't wake up one

31:53

day forgive and and how you made

31:55

it . It's

31:58

. It is a pendulum

32:00

, bro . It swings back and

32:02

forth and

32:05

and and you know , to this day

32:07

. You know I have some days I wake up

32:09

frustrated and angry . I'm a human

32:11

, right

32:13

, and , and so I think Oftentimes

32:16

people Look at

32:18

examples of forgiveness and they see

32:21

those examples , they

32:23

see the public figure of those examples

32:26

, right , so people may see

32:28

me smiling . You

32:30

know it was . You know

32:32

you know they

32:34

to talk about dr King , right , you

32:38

know they share stories about dr King

32:40

, but you know there's

32:43

not a lot of examples of people

32:46

sharing . You know about the behind

32:48

the scenes of that process , right

32:51

, and so I'd encourage people

32:53

one To

32:56

consider forgiveness for them , right

32:58

, it's not for the other person . Forgiveness is more Connected

33:03

to quality of life for

33:05

me , and so what I asked you was can you imagine

33:07

my life if , every time I saw a police officer , I

33:12

was triggered ? Yeah , and you

33:14

know , and it triggered the hatred and resentment in me . I

33:16

would not have a good quality of life . I

33:18

could be at the park with my son having a great time

33:20

and see a police officer . They

33:23

completely have a bad day and I didn't want anyone to have that

33:28

amount of power over my happiness . I

33:30

had to take my power back by just letting

33:32

go , and it's not my . You know responsibility to

33:34

like . You know Be

33:37

stuck on , like what accountability looks like

33:39

and all these things

33:41

you know , and

33:45

so I let it go . The

33:47

other thing is , you know , give yourself up for the rest of your

33:50

life , so I let it go

33:53

. The other thing is , you

33:56

know , give yourself grace . You

33:58

know you can work towards letting it go . You

34:00

could . You know I encourage people

34:02

to choose forgiveness . You

34:05

know , every day , you

34:07

know , and it's like the light man

34:09

, it's like you're choosing up to walk

34:12

in the light every day when

34:14

, but some days , you know your

34:16

energy may be low and you

34:19

know you may be in pain or you

34:21

may have watched a movie or there

34:23

may be something that triggers you and

34:26

it's okay to feel those

34:30

emotions fully , right

34:33

, so that doesn't mean you haven't

34:35

forgiven , and I think

34:37

it's very important to feel those emotions

34:39

fully Because

34:43

it's kind of like a baby man . You ever see a baby

34:45

cry . Oh yeah

34:48

, they let it all out

34:50

, man , until they

34:53

don't even have any more left and they

34:55

probably forget about what they were crying about

34:57

and just move forward . As

34:59

adults , man , we hold on to things

35:02

. We suppress our emotions . You

35:04

know Men and women do

35:06

it , you know , and you know we

35:08

try to just get through life Without

35:11

ever , you know , feeling those

35:13

feelings fully , and so I encourage people

35:15

to feel fully , acknowledge

35:17

those emotions and

35:20

then let it go . And when you let it go , you

35:24

know that's where the

35:26

real forgiveness happens . But

35:28

then , you know again , give yourself grace

35:31

. If you're ever triggered and you feel

35:33

like man , I , you know , I

35:35

hate this person today , you

35:38

know , give yourself grace and say yo , it's

35:40

okay , I feel like this

35:42

today , but I won't feel like this tomorrow , wow

35:45

.

35:47

I'm trying to think about a word , this question . But you

35:49

know we live in a world where justice is important

35:52

and we're talking about

35:54

judgment too . So there's situations that happen where it's like

35:56

, okay , justice has to be served , someone

35:58

needs to get what they deserve . But then there's also , like the love

36:00

, forgiveness and grace side . How do

36:02

you balance whether you know it's your situation

36:04

or you see another situation of something tragic that

36:06

happens ? Maybe it's

36:08

police and whatever whatever the situation

36:11

is , how do you personally balance , like the need

36:13

for we need to make this right

36:15

, justice needs to be served , people need to go what they deserve

36:17

versus man . We need to love each other , forgive

36:19

each other and reconcile , like how

36:22

, how do you balance that tension ?

36:23

Yeah , I was a . You

36:27

know , forgiveness or

36:30

unforgiveness is not synonymous

36:32

with accountability , right

36:35

, you can still hold someone accountable

36:37

, right ? So if

36:40

you wrong me , right

36:42

, and I forgave you , I'm like , yeah , I'm letting this

36:44

go , that doesn't mean I can't have

36:46

a conversation with you about

36:48

how you hurt me . Hmm , right

36:51

, it just means that you don't have

36:53

to control over my

36:55

happiness , you don't have to control

36:57

over my peace of mind . Now I will argue

36:59

that Forgiveness

37:02

gives you , you know

37:04

, a level of mental

37:06

clarity , right to

37:10

Position yourself

37:12

, to fight for justice in

37:14

a way that you know

37:16

, holding on , you know , to

37:19

that anger and resentment doesn't

37:21

afford you the opportunity to . It's like

37:23

boxing , right , you

37:26

know , I used to box man and a

37:28

lot of people think boxing . You know , it's

37:31

about pure strength and

37:33

and just being angry and being a good

37:35

fighter . No , it's a science to

37:37

it . But you know what the one you

37:39

see somebody to get angry and lose

37:42

their mental clarity , it's over

37:44

, you know , I mean , they get picked apart , you

37:47

know , and so I'd encourage

37:49

people to use forgiveness

37:52

as a tool to Help

37:54

them have a sound mind and

37:57

with that sound mind , they could become more

37:59

strategic , more

38:01

intentional , more focused on

38:04

Solutions . You

38:07

know I see it all the time with you

38:09

know activists , and

38:11

you know you know some activists

38:13

are so Emotionally

38:16

connected to the movement that

38:18

is hard for them

38:20

To make strategic

38:23

decisions that I get them closer

38:25

to the resolution that they're looking

38:27

for .

38:29

Wow , thank you for sharing that . One

38:31

more topic I want to cover before we go into the lighting round

38:33

, which is a bunch of fun questions . I always ask , man

38:36

, I've heard you talking in other interviews about just how you've

38:39

you've been able to experience a certain pain

38:41

and a purpose You've mentioned it several times here already

38:43

of kind of what you're doing today . But I

38:45

feel like , man , that's one reason I feel like we connected so well

38:47

. You know , I have a lot of pain in my background and and to

38:49

live intentionally , make a difference with that pain makes all

38:51

the difference in the world . So can

38:54

you just talk about what would

38:56

your advice be someone who's been through a lot of pain on

38:58

how they can use that for purpose ?

39:00

Absolutely . I would encourage

39:02

someone , right , if anyone listening

39:05

to this . If you think about

39:07

one of the most painful experiences

39:10

of your life and and

39:13

view it through the lens of solutions

39:15

, right , like how

39:18

could this have been

39:20

different ? You know , if

39:22

I could have leaned on anyone

39:24

and they could have gave me any type of

39:26

resource , what would that resource

39:28

have been ? Right ? And

39:31

then you could position yourself right

39:34

as an expert . You

39:36

know , and as you position yourself

39:38

as an expert with the solutions you

39:41

know , if this is something that you're truly

39:43

passionate about , you'll feel

39:46

it in your soul Like

39:48

, you'll feel the passion , you'll

39:50

feel the fulfillment and

39:52

you become an expert . It's kind

39:54

of like for my life , almost

39:57

every experience that I had , even

39:59

something that you

40:02

know I was ashamed of , right

40:04

, like you know , when

40:06

my father went to prison when I was five

40:09

and he didn't come home until

40:11

I was 19 years old . But

40:13

now I mentor young men

40:16

and women who have parents

40:18

who are incarcerated . You know I talked

40:20

to men who

40:22

are incarcerated about how

40:24

to build relationships with their children

40:27

. You know , on the outside I

40:29

lost when I was 13

40:32

, I lost my sister and

40:35

you know I helped with grief counseling

40:38

, right , I mean , there's so many aspects

40:40

of my experience that

40:43

you know I leveraged to help

40:45

other people and , you

40:47

know , for those people who have experienced

40:50

painful situations

40:52

, you know I'd encourage them

40:54

to again be yourself as an expert

40:57

, be very authentic

40:59

, right and open-minded

41:02

when you are sharing

41:04

your story , when you are looking at your story , because

41:06

you never know who your story

41:08

can help .

41:10

Come on Well , leon . Thank you for sharing

41:13

your story . Again , people can get your book

41:15

and again we'll include links to that in the show notes where

41:17

you can read about a story and the lessons . There's so many

41:19

lessons already to unpack from this , but I

41:21

just want to say thank you on behalf of the

41:23

thousands and thousands of people that you've already helped

41:25

. Thank you for turning your pain into purpose . You

41:28

could have gone a different direction , you could have made it all

41:30

for naught , but you're using your life to

41:32

make a difference and , man , that's why I love you so much

41:34

and I just can't wait to see how you're using the

41:36

future .

41:37

I love you too , man , and I'm looking

41:39

forward to seeing you here soon .

41:41

Yeah and hey . Before we end we have to

41:44

jump into the lightning round . So these are fun questions

41:46

I ask at the end of every interview . The

41:48

first one is and Leon was not prepped

41:50

for any of these , so let's go Real authentic answers

41:52

what is the best advice you've ever received

41:54

and who gave it to you ?

41:56

Woo , my grandfather . He told

41:58

me I was depressed and

42:01

he told me you're experiencing

42:03

the lowest moment of your life right now

42:06

, but it's impossible to fall off the

42:08

floor . The only way to go is up

42:10

, and how high you climb is up to you .

42:13

Come on , grandpa , let's go . That's

42:16

good stuff , man . If you could put a quote on a billboard

42:18

for anyone to read , what would it say ?

42:20

I love you .

42:23

Do you have a book other than your own , one or two books that

42:25

have impacted you in a significant way , that you recommend

42:27

most often ?

42:28

Yeah , the Alchemist by Paulo

42:30

Coelho , so good . And

42:33

let's

42:36

see the Seat of the Soul

42:38

by Gary Zucoff .

42:41

I haven't read that one . I'll check it out . You

42:43

could spend time with a lot of leaders . When you get to spend time with

42:45

someone that you admire and look up to and want to

42:47

learn from , do you have a go-to question that you always ask

42:49

?

42:50

I don't .

42:52

OK , what

42:54

is your biggest leadership pet peeve ?

42:57

Pet peeve Leaders

43:01

who know all the answers . They think they got

43:03

all the answers and they're not open

43:05

to listening or

43:07

adapting .

43:09

Lead with curiosity , bro , love it . What

43:12

is something ? I don't know if you have an actual bucket list or not , but what's

43:14

something you've done in your life that you think everyone

43:16

should experience before they die ?

43:18

Skydiving .

43:19

All right . How was that ?

43:22

Oh man , it was . I'm

43:24

scared of heights , wow

43:28

, and it was

43:30

one of those experiences that

43:32

you know I tricked my mind into , but

43:35

it opened me up . I was like man , if I could do

43:38

this , I can do anything , wow .

43:40

Would you do it again ? Oh yeah

43:42

, have you been ? No , no . It's

43:46

on the bucket list .

43:47

We can go together and film it for

43:50

you . We could do like

43:52

an L3 leadership

43:54

skydiving

43:57

thing .

43:58

Let's go , man . It's like the Tony Robbins Firewalk

44:00

. Instead of that , we'll just jump out of a plane . Exactly

44:03

, let's go , man . Stay

44:06

tuned for that . Listeners , we'll get that video out as soon

44:08

as it happens .

44:10

Well , hold us to this . I'm down

44:12

. We got to hold Doug to this , I'm in

44:15

.

44:15

I'm in man . I have to make sure my wife's okay with it

44:17

, but I'm in man . If

44:19

you could go back , she could come too

44:21

.

44:21

She could come too .

44:24

We'll see if that happens . If

44:26

you could go back and have coffee with yourself at any

44:28

age and you would have actually listened to yourself , what

44:31

age would you meet with yourself and what would you be told

44:33

? That version of Leon .

44:37

I would say 14

44:41

. And I

44:43

would tell myself to just stay

44:46

focused on your goals and be patient

44:48

with yourself .

44:50

That's good , and I know you're a very , very

44:52

young man . But one day , at the end of your life , looking back

44:55

, what , ultimately , do you want your legacy to be and

44:57

what do you want to be remembered for ?

44:59

Yeah , I want to be remembered for

45:02

just bringing joy into the world

45:04

and helping

45:06

as many people as

45:09

I can help

45:11

themselves heal . Yeah

45:13

. So , I don't want to be the one to heal them , you

45:16

know . I want to be like the spark

45:18

right , the catalyst

45:20

that remind them that

45:23

they are capable of healing themselves

45:25

. So good .

45:27

Open-ended Anything else you want to leave leaders with today

45:29

as we wrap up .

45:33

Yeah . So if you could repeat after me every time I speak

45:35

, I do a pledge , let's do it . Yeah

45:37

, so we must give up to go up .

45:39

We must give up to go up .

45:41

We must give up to grow up .

45:43

We must give up to grow up .

45:44

We must give up on the way up .

45:46

We must give up on the way up .

45:48

And give up even more to stay up .

45:50

And give up even more to stay up . I cannot

45:52

teach COVID-19 what

45:55

I do not know , what I do not know . I

45:58

cannot lead COVID-19 where

46:01

I will not go . I

46:04

am because we are , because

46:06

we are , because

46:09

I am . I

46:12

am my brother's keeper , I

46:15

am my sister's keeper , I

46:18

am Dustin for greatness Because I attract

46:21

, because I attract what .

46:23

I am what I am an African

46:25

language . We say a

46:27

shea , a shea , a shea

46:30

, a shea , a shea .

46:32

Thank you , let's go , man . I'm ready

46:34

to like run out of the building . I

46:36

love stuff like that man . I might . I might repeat

46:38

that with my kids . Thank you for sharing .

46:40

I Designed

46:42

a self-care Tool kit

46:45

, so I'll send it to you . Oh , come on in

46:47

the pledges , in that the toolkit and everything

46:49

.

46:50

Well , leon , it's an honor to call you friend . Thank you

46:52

for taking the time to be on the podcast and

46:54

by the time people are listening this , you have already spoken

46:56

out Three at L3 one day , but

46:58

thank you for doing that and just thank you , everything that you're

47:01

doing for people in the planet and making it a better place , man

47:03

. Thank you , brother , I love you man . I

47:05

Well

47:10

. Leader , thank you so much for listening to my conversation

47:12

with Leon . I hope that you were inspired , I hope

47:14

that you were challenged and I hope you fell in love with Leon

47:16

, just like I did , cuz he is incredible and

47:18

if you'd like to connect with him , you can find links to

47:21

ways to connect with him and everything that we discussed

47:23

in the show notes at L3 leadership

47:25

org forward , slash 414

47:28

. And , as always , leader , I liked and every episode with a quote . Now

47:30

quote Mark train today , who said this . He said always

47:32

do right . It will gratify some

47:35

people and astonish the rest . Well

47:37

, leader , I said every episode , but know that my wife Lauren , I

47:39

love you , we believe in you and don't

47:42

quit , keep leading . The world

47:44

desperately needs your leadership . I'll

47:46

talk to you next episode . I .