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all areas. Restrictions apply. Before

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we start this show, I wanna let you know it has some

1:16

adult themes in it, so no kids in the car for this

1:18

one. And if you leave the kids in the car and you

1:20

still play the episode, don't blame me when they have nightmares. Coming

1:23

up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. I

1:26

had a buddy called George. He's a good guy,

1:29

and we were fighting a fight, so these guys pulled guns

1:31

out after the fight was over. And George pretended he had

1:33

two guns in his pocket. Let him loose now! These guys

1:35

thought he had guns, and they dropped the guy. This is

1:37

insane, man, you can't make it up. It's like a movie.

1:39

And we all got away with our money too, but I'm

1:42

saying, I've had all this stuff. I had a gun put

1:44

to my head. Welcome

1:49

to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the

1:51

Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets,

1:53

and skills of the world's most fascinating people,

1:55

and turn their wisdom into practical advice that

1:57

you can use to impact your own life.

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in your Spotify app to get

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started. Today on the show, one

2:40

of the greatest bare knuckle boxers of all

2:42

time, Bobby Gunn, really the world champion of

2:44

bare knuckle and man, what a story. Bobby

2:47

grew up as an Irish traveler or some

2:49

people might say gypsy. We don't really say

2:51

that anymore, kids. He was fighting drunk men

2:54

in parking lots by age 11. Age

2:56

11. We'll discuss Bobby's

2:59

upbringing, his training, fighting in illegal underground

3:01

matches run by the mob, actually kind

3:03

of like all the mobs, and

3:05

some close calls where he nearly died as

3:07

well as a bit of background in a

3:09

traveler culture and wild tales from Bobby's life

3:12

as a fighter and beyond. Also

3:14

in studio today is Staten Bonner, author of Bobby's

3:16

biography, who spent something like a decade and a

3:18

half shadowing Bobby for the book and almost died

3:20

alongside with him and was also in the basement

3:22

with the leopards chained to the walls. You're going

3:25

to hear that story. Staten adds color and teases

3:27

a few stories out of Bobby that I don't

3:29

think we would have gotten otherwise and is all in

3:31

a welcome addition to the conversation. By the way, if

3:33

you have trouble understanding Bobby, you can go to our

3:35

YouTube channel. We're going to have some subtitles ready. I

3:38

can understand him just fine, but I think if English

3:40

maybe isn't your first language, it might be a little

3:42

bit harder. He's got a traveler accent. I didn't know

3:44

that was a thing, but that's the thing. Also

3:47

please note graphic depictions of violence in this episode.

3:49

If you've got little kids in the car, maybe

3:51

skip to another episode for now and listen to this

3:53

one later. All right. Here

3:55

we go with Bobby

3:59

Gunn. So, listeners

4:01

of the show know I usually don't

4:03

cover sports, and this is not

4:05

exactly a sports story, but the press release,

4:07

which I seldom even bother reading for the

4:09

pitch for this, caught my attention because I

4:11

read, Bobby, that your dad

4:13

had you fighting basically just drunk guys

4:15

in parking lots at age 11. And

4:18

I, like, that's just, that's one of the

4:20

craziest things I've ever heard about someone's childhood.

4:22

Like, people like to write about their childhood and they're like, yeah, I worked at

4:25

my dad's bakery and I got up at 4 a.m. and I'm like, wow, that

4:27

really sucks when you're 15. Beating up

4:29

drunk guys in parking lots when you're

4:31

11 is an order of magnitude or 10 above

4:35

that. Maybe about 9, 10

4:37

years old, I was doing that fighting them guys

4:39

and you look at that today, it's

4:41

like a former child abuse you would say, but if

4:44

you understand where I come from, my culture, my

4:46

upbringing, all dogs are dogs,

4:48

they got canine breed and all cats are

4:51

fleeing out, right? But there's different

4:53

breeds of dogs, poodles, swallows, they're pit bulls. They're

4:55

pit bulls, the gypsy traveler people with

4:57

diapers on. I was thrown one twos. I

5:00

immortalized the fight game and when

5:02

I said they're drunk, a lot of these guys weren't stacking them

5:04

down. They were, they're a fight and

5:06

they were laughing. Are you kidding, fighting this little boy?

5:08

Yeah. A wee boy said like a

5:10

buzz stop and I wasn't a normal wee boy. You know,

5:13

I was like an assassin, but it

5:15

prepared me. If you're going to go swimming

5:17

with sharks, you better train with sharks and be around sharks.

5:20

You just can't start jumping, I said you're going to be

5:22

around. I was raised around it, formed

5:24

into molded by it. Unfortunately,

5:26

in my life, there was a lot of darkness and

5:28

growing up, it was a tough old world, my brother. You

5:30

know, talk about giddles in New York

5:32

City and like Baltimore here, brother, these giddles were

5:35

a holiday and to prepare where I come from.

5:38

Just to get out my environment, I

5:40

climbed them walls, blackness,

5:42

evilness, drama, hatred,

5:45

porn is poverty. Just to get out of that, it's

5:48

a great achievement in my life. Have

5:50

you seen Batman? It's

5:56

like Bane. Bane, the guy that

5:59

crawls out of that prison. in the desert and he's like,

6:01

oh Batman, yeah, I see Batman. I'm

6:05

like Batman, but the life we had, it

6:07

molded me to where I am, and to

6:09

go on and become a world champion, box

6:12

and win the bare knuckle world title and

6:14

fight these fights. But see, when I was

6:16

fighting these other fights, these underground fights, miracle fights,

6:19

I was a seasoned fighter. At

6:22

13 years old, I was champion national titles and

6:24

I was seasoned. I

6:26

remember one time I went to fight at

6:29

an event and I beat this open-class fighter and it was

6:31

a shock, right? Nobody could believe it. And

6:33

I'm walking out of the arena and a reporter wrote, he

6:35

says, there he's playing with Rubik's Cube talking to his mom,

6:38

oblivious to what he just accomplished, like if I was

6:40

a child. It was normal, like

6:42

the life switch would come on, what a fight would come on. He's

6:45

a whole different person. But my

6:47

people would come from fighting his

6:50

religion. My grandfather was a

6:52

champion fighter. My great grandfather, old black

6:54

Bob Williamson, was a great

6:56

athlete. It goes back hundreds and hundreds

6:58

of years. But

7:00

if I didn't have that push and drive and

7:03

the hard upbringing from my old father, I wouldn't

7:06

be able to do what I've done today. Where

7:08

did you move from? And I know

7:10

you're a traveler and I'm going to get into

7:12

that because that is super fascinating. But where are

7:14

you from? Is that even a question you can

7:16

ask a traveler? Oh, yeah, yeah. All my people

7:19

come from Scotland, Scottish gypsy travelers.

7:21

And my dad's side, my mom's

7:23

an Irish gypsy traveler. So my dad

7:25

and my mom, the Scottish Irish gypsy was like a shocker, like,

7:27

whoa, wait a minute, the orange and the green, a big mix

7:29

up. And they produced a mutant like me. But

7:33

I mean, did them, yes, all both

7:35

sides of my mom's and my dad's

7:37

family was all in, you know, that's,

7:39

we're proud gypsy traveler people. We're proud of our

7:41

heritage. They're as good and bad at all races

7:43

of people, all in the world. Unfortunately,

7:46

my people are stereotyped a different way.

7:48

A Panama Brush, they should be paying with. If

7:50

you look for good, you'll find good. If you look for bad, you'll find

7:52

bad. But you've got to know this

7:54

here, every race is good and bad. My

7:56

people are good people. We're a great town

7:58

amongst our people, singing and dancing. dancing and fighting it

8:01

was doesn't and one thing but they don't show

8:03

it. Family members can sing better than

8:05

anybody you hear the radio and they won't do it they won't

8:07

come out and do it. Just keep a little

8:09

profile because we're used to being persecuted

8:11

real bad to this day

8:13

in England there's places and bars

8:15

and pubs no tankers pikeys

8:18

allowed that's they call the african-american man

8:20

in the n-word now think about that this day and age

8:22

2024 this is very day. When

8:25

I lived in the UK I saw I heard the word

8:27

pikey and I was like oh what's that it sounds like

8:29

something from like you know the middle ages I just assumed

8:31

it was like a word for night or something like that

8:34

I was in a bar and I said to this

8:36

girl that I worked with we were lawyers at the

8:38

time I said what's a pikey like really loud because

8:40

I was like I've heard this word and nobody and

8:42

somebody told and John said it and they were like

8:44

right because we're in

8:47

a pub just drinking and I didn't

8:49

realize that this was like a slur at all and

8:51

I said what pikey is a bad word and like

8:53

you know probably had a couple beers and I was

8:55

just like I can't be that bad it doesn't sound

8:57

like a bad word. The

8:59

bartender's like looking at me like is this

9:01

guy really just like saying that at full

9:04

volume and there were guys at the back

9:06

table looking at us and my friend was

9:08

like don't just

9:10

stop talking now just stop we'll just tell you

9:12

at the office on Monday what this is all about

9:14

and it turns out as you

9:16

mentioned that is not a word that most

9:19

polite people just say at full

9:21

volume when they're having a beer. Exactly.

9:24

This is like a nice pub where lawyers hang

9:26

out right it's like in the Canary Wharf with

9:29

London. It'll bust that out there. But

9:31

travelers it's such an interesting culture man

9:33

because first you said gypsy traveler but

9:35

I read on the internet which is

9:37

the arbiter of all truth that gypsy

9:39

is not exactly the word that

9:42

you should use either for this. Now I mean you

9:44

can say whatever you want but it's not something I

9:46

should say. I'll forward like gypsy we'll take that one

9:48

better than any other word but that's what we

9:50

are. It goes back to the Romany

9:52

Gypsy people when they ventured off to

9:54

Scotland, Ireland, England and there's

9:57

English traveler gypsies, there's Scottish Irish

9:59

gypsies and Scottish Irish, if you

10:01

send that to my people or Scotch and

10:03

Irish. We're all the one people. We got

10:05

different words we use, we speak all different

10:07

languages. I can speak them all. You

10:10

know, we're good people, good, good hard-working people, a

10:12

lot of them. And we're very proud

10:15

people. So just to give the listeners

10:17

a little bit of a recap, because I did a little bit of

10:19

research on this. I guess the reason people

10:21

say gypsies is because people, I don't know,

10:23

hundreds of years ago actually thought that your

10:26

people, your tribes or whatever you call

10:28

it, had moved from Egypt. Yeah.

10:31

And that was actually not always the

10:33

case. They come from India, slash

10:35

Scotland, slash Irish. It's hard to say.

10:37

Even the Bible says the lost tribe.

10:40

You know, we don't know what tribe that is. I mean, I

10:43

do know this here. It's hundreds and hundreds

10:45

of years of traditions and

10:47

culture. They're good people, a lot

10:49

of them. It's like this year. In

10:52

every race, Latinos, Orientals, the white

10:54

and African-Americans, there's good and bad in

10:56

every race. But my people, you only

10:58

hear about the bad. Well, yeah. But they don't always talk

11:00

about the good things they've done. Like Tyson and

11:02

Sherry, look at that man who's done. He's an

11:04

honest-to-the-world champion. He comes back from things that they

11:07

read him off, addictions that he's overcome at the

11:09

top of the world. And do you know this?

11:12

When he won the world, every title in England, the

11:14

queen wouldn't even honor him. Because he was

11:16

a traveler and she thought it was kind of trashy? He

11:18

was asked to leave a restaurant in Jordan with his wife

11:21

five years ago. Oh my God.

11:23

Because we don't serve your kind here. Honest to

11:25

God, I've been told that. I'm shocked. He

11:27

told me and my wife in Orlando for a walk

11:29

through Disneyland 10 years ago, my little girl,

11:32

we know your people know you have to leave the park,

11:34

sir. So what? What? Where is this?

11:36

In Orlando, Disneyland. They kicked you out of Disney

11:39

World? Yes, they did. We know your people. We

11:41

do not want you to... That's horrible. I was

11:43

so embarrassed. She said, come on. She

11:45

said, come on. Now, honest to God, Jordan, you

11:48

know your stuff. He does too. When you know our people,

11:50

you know the background. A lot of people are

11:52

oblivious to like, what's he even talking about? But

11:54

yes, they have said that to me. I've

11:56

been a world championship fights brother. And

11:58

you know why I don't care about our cut I'll fight

12:00

my bills hanging off. I look up my nose,

12:03

referee jump in to grab me and say, go back

12:05

to America now you gypsy bastard. My hand to

12:07

God. Unbelievable. Brother

12:11

names like that, it's hurt me all my

12:13

life growing up. I was deprived

12:16

a lot of things for being a gypsy traveler. Your

12:18

stamp was at birth. This

12:20

is quite shocking because first of all,

12:22

90% of America is probably like,

12:24

I think I've heard of gypsies, aren't those the people

12:27

that read Your Future and a crystal ball or something?

12:29

It's very, but no one's like,

12:31

oh, kick them out of Disneyland. It's very

12:34

rare. I know that traveler culture

12:36

is somewhat nomadic and there's all

12:38

these different rules and things like

12:40

that. There's a specific culture and

12:42

religion, but I really thought that

12:44

prejudice against travelers was something from the

12:46

50s and sort of had calmed down

12:48

with the civil rights movement, but apparently

12:51

not because Mike Tyson only gets kicked

12:53

out of restaurants because he doesn't pay

12:55

the bill. You're getting kicked out of

12:57

there. Tyson here is getting kicked out

13:00

because he's a traveler. It's a totally

13:02

different thing. It's unbelievable, man.

13:04

You know something, Jordan? Unfortunately, in

13:06

this world, race is an age

13:08

where something is always beer. You just kind of got to

13:11

roll the punches and move around it. All we can do

13:13

is try our best to not don't get involved with it,

13:15

but to change it. Here's the problem. Okay. If someone's full

13:17

of hate and they're rotten, you're not going

13:19

to change them. Let them fade out because

13:21

you only get yourself aggravated. Someone assaults you,

13:24

you're a fool to argue back up. Just move on. One

13:26

of your languages, I know you speak like

13:28

five, but one of them is called Kant,

13:31

which is Scottish Kant. I thought they, I'm

13:33

sure there's a joke in here, but it's

13:35

like Kant because you can't understand what anyone

13:37

is saying when they speak it. This is

13:40

kind of like almost like Celtic, sort of

13:42

OG, pre-English stuff that y'all speak.

13:44

I mean, it goes way back centuries. It's

13:46

really interesting. I'll give you a laugh about

13:48

the chant, okay? My boy

13:50

was trained in a gym. He's boxed

13:52

his little guy. He's on a baby. The

13:55

African, the black guy, the old trainer, is a good guy. I remember,

13:57

I was thinking of a chant to my boy. I just... Speak

14:00

of Shannon. That means get him good. Speak

14:02

of Shannon. It's come on, Bobby. I'm walking to the

14:05

gym. We met Bobby outside of his name was Speak

14:07

of Shannon. Yeah,

14:11

Speak of Shannon. It's so interesting. I should

14:13

do a whole show about traveler lifestyle because

14:15

the history is fascinating. The lifestyle is fascinating.

14:18

I know y'all have a lot of rules and different

14:20

things that are almost kind of secretive, but let's get

14:22

back to fighting for now. And if we have more

14:24

time, we can talk more about the traveler. It's

14:27

so freaking interesting to me. Tell me how

14:29

your dad trained you. I know we sort of covered that

14:31

you were fighting drunks in parking lots at age 11. Were

14:35

you waking up in the middle of the night to do

14:37

that? Because I know I'm in bed by like 930 on

14:40

an ideal night because I got two little kids.

14:42

Yeah, unfortunately, those nights my dad would be probably

14:44

drinking will be at an old motel or

14:46

an RV trailer and he pulled back up

14:48

the lights to be on high beams. That's when

14:50

you knew, you know, something was wrong. Mom,

14:53

she says she would let her sleep. Don't do this.

14:55

Don't do this. Oh, Jackie, get him out. Jackie, get

14:58

him out. Come on. It's a jolly. I

15:00

mean, come here. Hiker the

15:02

gadget. That means beat up the man.

15:04

That was it. Him? All that flying

15:06

ham. Oh, you're sick.

15:09

You know, we boy bust

15:11

this one up. It's funny. Like this is by the bumper like this day.

15:14

Hey, old man. And he said this word. I don't know.

15:16

So it's crazy. But he said, he's got

15:18

a right we gagging. He's got a

15:21

right we man. He didn't even say that. It

15:23

took away all the craziness because my dad, he

15:26

showed me a love. It sounds weird to

15:28

tell you that. It was my life. And

15:30

I love my old man. And thank

15:33

God for his craziness. His training methods,

15:35

Jordan, was insane. Yeah. At

15:37

nighttime, a black and white TV set, an

15:41

old videotape. I'm talking about everybody else has colored TVs.

15:43

We're living rough. You know what I mean? Yeah. Watch

15:46

a fight film. Maybe the film will be 20

15:48

minutes, but he'll make me watch it for three and four hours. And

15:51

he's shadowboxing, copying the

15:53

fight film. And porn is what I mean.

15:56

And it was shit like this behind you. No, dude. That

15:58

way, you got to be a man. the fight move hold

16:00

on oh okay barrel are

16:02

we champ boy what are we champ say

16:05

it's our right me off now go to your bed

16:08

five and one come on hop up run

16:11

follow the car behind you and

16:14

beat the horn on your ass if you wasn't going fast enough

16:17

I made run two or three four mile runs that

16:19

we bore he's following you with a car and I'm

16:21

gonna get you and you're just running

16:24

he better I'd be over to it I

16:26

had the right you know he was tough

16:29

we get understand he was a killer street

16:31

fighter I mean he was rough and tumble she's

16:34

what I was fair on a square I don't know I done

16:36

rough and tumble to my more share run

16:38

with them that means anything goes in

16:40

a real street fight I'm not talking about MMA rules

16:43

and a street fight I

16:45

bite your nose you're you're off your head because you're

16:47

gonna do it to me there's no rules

16:49

them fights are evil oh my god I did more than

16:51

my share them I don't like them I

16:53

do the affair in square though but my father

16:56

that was his life them fights and

16:58

he mastered them moves and moves and her

17:00

Wow do things like you know these guys

17:02

don't do the stuff that my dad could

17:04

do there's little moves and she

17:06

was tough that way your

17:09

upbringing most people can't relate right your dad would

17:11

wrap the baseball bat with duct tape and what

17:13

was it like a t-shirt or something oh you

17:15

whack you in the belly with it in right

17:17

make you run in front of the car it's

17:19

just like this is such a I'll

17:22

say unique way to feel love for

17:24

your son I suppose but it makes

17:26

sense in context of him being also

17:28

raised like that and just when

17:31

you look at your community the best fighters

17:33

the guy with the most respect in a lot of

17:35

ways and so you're the king of the hill and

17:37

he wanted that for you because that was what was

17:39

important that's what I'm hearing anyway is that accurate here

17:42

he has been traded by this you know we're

17:44

painting roofs metal roofs and summertime spraying

17:46

roofs and the buckets weighs

17:49

60 pounds five-year-old buckets and

17:51

he made me pick a buck up with my teeth for a

17:53

rag 16 pounds like that

17:57

and then take a buck up my shoulder I show you today

18:00

And do duck walks. Stuff

18:02

that ain't normal. But here's why

18:04

it wasn't normal. Because it goes against all normal things

18:06

that someone could do. Balance, your

18:08

muscles, that never been used like

18:10

that before. And truthfully,

18:12

he's a guru, okay? He's a hard

18:14

trader. He wouldn't sell this

18:17

day and age. The reason wouldn't take

18:19

a while, okay? But to do that

18:21

business, he molds on me, I was

18:23

bred and born to

18:26

be a dispersion that he made. Yes, man.

18:28

Well, let me back up the chunk a little bit. Because

18:31

I'm not even sure where to begin with the

18:33

underground fight scene. Because it is absolutely nuts. So

18:35

this is bare knuckle boxing. And that is different

18:38

from other kinds of underground street fights, which obviously

18:40

I had no idea before reading the book and

18:42

talking to you. Can you explain a

18:44

little bit the difference between regular boxing, bare

18:47

knuckle boxing, and you said... Rough and tumble? Yeah, rough

18:49

and tumble where you can just like rip someone's nose

18:51

off. Rough and tumble fight, that's just a street fight.

18:53

I mean, I had over 100 of those. They're not

18:56

good. I mean, anything goes. There's no rule book. There's

18:59

no rule book in the street fight. You know,

19:01

that's bad business. But figuring a square means

19:04

Jordan, let's say, means you're going to fight Jordan. Now,

19:07

how much money you put down Jordan to fight this fight? You want to

19:09

show him something? You put in five grand? Okay, I got to match the

19:11

five grand. Winner take all Jordan. You

19:13

can't go home to the loss there. Yeah. You

19:16

got to win that money or you lose everything. Right.

19:19

Now, in pro boxing, there's a price already guaranteed for

19:21

the fighter, win, lose, or draw. And

19:23

it's through managers. But these

19:26

underground fights, that's how they run. But I'm going to

19:28

blow your mind right now. The

19:30

underground fights were better fair

19:32

play, what I mean by fair

19:34

or fair, right down the middle, than the

19:36

professional boxing was. Pro boxing,

19:39

the gaming game, I was world champion there. That's a

19:41

racket man. The game ain't the fight game it used

19:43

to be. More corruption and

19:46

fixed deals than the judges, the

19:48

doctors, and referees. I never

19:50

seen that in bare knuckle boxing. Believe

19:52

it or not, that underground horror

19:54

scene, it didn't fight Jordan. I

19:57

seen judges, attorneys, and police

19:59

officers. In with gang members at

20:01

one night everybody's in one of harmony bent on a

20:03

fight Honest to

20:06

God I you can't believe this and everybody

20:08

leaves But these fights

20:10

happen Jordan and they happen

20:12

all the time multi-nose America all through here And they and

20:14

I remember one time was we talked about these days. I

20:16

was fighting that I grew up building right

20:18

next to our grocery store And

20:21

I mean there's a bloodbath or newspaper the

20:23

floor trying to blow You

20:25

imagine somebody walking next out maybe our old grandmother or

20:27

granddaughter my god, I believe you get to this world

20:30

of wall That's how

20:32

close it is. We did one fight Jordan was

20:34

a fight America fight across. It was a

20:36

police station They were oblivious. What

20:38

was going on my gosh. I mean, maybe

20:40

they knew and they just didn't care because the

20:42

chief was over there With the district attorney with

20:44

a bunch of guys they arrested a week prior

20:46

who are out on bail It's

20:49

insane. I mean it happens that the

20:51

Underground Circuit was here before I was

20:54

here I mean you go back to

20:56

the movies like Charles bronze on hard times. He

20:58

was able to draw the runs on hard times

21:00

He's a very local fight in the 30s. Yeah,

21:02

like when I was nine or something probably on

21:04

TV fight No, they were doing this is we're

21:06

going on for years Even

21:08

though now the sport is sanctioned. There's

21:10

the professional medical boxes, but

21:13

they're still underground world and

21:15

it's still thriving It'll be here when I'm dead

21:17

and gone The book just has

21:19

tons of stories about you go into

21:21

a trailer park and then there's a fight in

21:23

there there's like a parking lot where they set

21:25

this up and really it's like straight out of

21:27

a movie and It's

21:30

like a dumb thing for me to say right now

21:32

But it seems so dangerous that I just can't imagine

21:34

you also mentioned in some of the bare knuckle matches

21:37

If somebody just gets really pissed off or they're

21:39

losing they just start breaking the rules and it's

21:41

like well, okay I mean now it's a rough-and-tumble

21:43

fight. All right, my bets already out It's like

21:46

you don't have any guarantee that somebody's gonna not

21:48

try to kill you. So I'm sorry my my

21:50

throat anyway I fight this guy is

21:53

black dude. He was up for the Jamaica Bloods gangs of

21:55

New York Yeah, drop a

21:57

beat about me big big dive. They had a long dreadlocks

22:00

And he bit me in the shoulder. He already lost the

22:02

fight legally. I had him knocked out quite. Bang! I hit

22:04

him right hand. He was all cold. That

22:07

was it. Anyway, get him up, get him up, get him up.

22:09

They want to go again. I didn't

22:11

know what this meant though. See, go again. Now it went

22:13

from fair and square to rough and tumble. You

22:15

understand how he turned on me? He said, why not come back? Yeah. I

22:17

used to love fair and square when he comes and he fights me right

22:19

there. So I bit him back. I should

22:21

have done that. I had to bite him back. He was so... It

22:24

ended up pretty great. But anyways, fair plays to

22:26

them though. My guys are all there. All

22:28

the guys in New York. I

22:30

thought I'd be right if it was going to happen. But it

22:32

slowed down. I said, come on pal, shake hands. I

22:34

shook his hand and that was it. But I had... Yes, I've

22:37

had guns put on my head. And

22:39

that's it. God, that was the one I really thought I was dead. Jeez.

22:41

I have heard that bare knuckle strikes penetrate

22:43

deeper. So you have to hit less hard

22:45

because you don't want to break your hand

22:48

first of all. So it's almost like... With

22:51

regular boxing, you just basically like torture somebody

22:53

because you're beating them with this pad at

22:55

80% and you hit

22:57

them a hundred times. You're very telly. So that's

23:00

why I've been telling people for years, honest to God, you

23:02

take my hand in a pro box and you wrap it

23:04

now with gauze and tape. It's like a calf. You

23:07

put that little 10 ounce glove on like this. He put his eye

23:09

gloves and they call cutting the glove. They

23:11

don't say it's not illegal. They pull back the glove like

23:13

this. They squeeze it. They take the laces and make the

23:15

leather tighter. They always... You

23:18

hit as hard as you can. That's more

23:20

damage to the head and the brain. Now

23:22

take that glove all the way. So they can hit

23:24

him. I'm not going to hit his heart. I got

23:26

to take my shots. 40% power. Maybe

23:29

50. I don't very rare hit somebody hard.

23:32

At least it's his stomach. I

23:34

knocked many of them, body shot out. I dropped them, but I

23:37

don't want to hurt my hands if I don't have to. But

23:39

boxing, I think is way more dangerous than

23:41

bare-duckle fighting. And here's a

23:43

fact for you, my brother. In bare-duckle boxing,

23:45

I think there's only been two fighters that were actually killed

23:48

that they can count for in life. Even when

23:50

they're around, what boxing, what is it,

23:52

25, 30 fighters a year die? And

23:54

if they're made of fighters, think about that. That's a lot of numbers. From

23:57

brain damage and stuff like that. Yeah, that's

23:59

the thing. is like over time if you get

24:01

hit a few, well it's never good to get

24:03

knocked out by getting punched in the face or

24:05

whatever. That's never good but I mean we all

24:07

saw what happened to Muhammad Ali, right? I mean

24:09

that was, we don't need more of

24:11

that. It was brutal. See I was raised

24:14

in the old school too, trying to roll

24:16

the punches. The art of fighting and I

24:18

had the best trainers, my dad, but

24:21

I trained with the greatest trainers that ever lived. And

24:23

I took everything that has to be, how to slip and roll and punch.

24:26

And that's what saved me the game, being able to

24:29

do that. That makes sense,

24:31

right? So even if you're like, oh I'm

24:33

not going to be able to stop this hit, at

24:35

least I'm not going to let it connect really well.

24:37

I mean I've been in some good shots. I mean

24:39

90% of fights I'm

24:42

protected. I roll, I roll.

24:44

See your body is, your

24:46

whole body, your shoulder, the hand

24:49

and vertical boxing, I can

24:51

do this. I catch, see these are the punches,

24:53

right? I'll catch your, Jordan, I'll catch

24:55

here. So I, bop, bop, bop. And

24:58

boxing I can't do that because my hand is kind of tied

25:00

up with the glove and the hand wraps. I

25:02

can't really protect myself. I can't bare knuckle boxing.

25:05

It's a different world. It's a different

25:07

world. I seem bummed bare knuckle fighters Jordan. Not

25:10

got world contenders and boxing champions in an

25:13

underground street fight. I believe that

25:15

because they're used to being able to take a few

25:17

punches or get lined up but if you just take

25:19

one bare knuckle punch, I saw a video of you

25:21

that you texted me where that really big dude, you

25:23

kind of just like tapped him in the eye. It

25:25

didn't even look like it was that hard. You told

25:27

me later it wasn't that hard because you didn't want

25:29

to blind the dude. And he went down and he

25:32

was like squealing like a pig and I was like,

25:34

oh man, that definitely hurt a lot and that was

25:36

the end of the fight. He says, I saw it

25:38

right there Jordan. You take it, you see my

25:40

hand here, right? Most boxers they

25:43

punch like that. Bare

25:46

knuckle. I'll take these two knuckles right here. The

25:48

bottom two knuckles. I'll sit back and I'll just

25:50

turn it. Boom, boom. And

25:53

that rule showed right in the eye. His eye saw

25:55

it. It broke right there. Screw shading pain.

25:57

That's what happened at the port family. We're down. And I

25:59

told him back, I'm going to do it. platform, but you know, I

26:01

did what I did. I mean, that's sort of... That's the sport.

26:03

I had to do it and I had to win because I

26:06

had to try to help my family best I can.

26:09

Yeah, of course. I think it

26:11

was probably one of the most humane things that

26:13

I'd seen. It certainly looked like after

26:15

that he was done, you didn't kick him in the head or anything

26:17

like that. I mean, that was the end

26:19

of the fight and he went home and he

26:22

patched himself up, but yeah, he probably doesn't have

26:24

brain damage. He wasn't knocked out. He was just

26:26

hurt. My eye socket then gets smashed in the

26:28

head 48 times during a fight

26:30

that I maybe won. You know, unfortunately though,

26:33

a lot of these fighters, if I see they're hurt and bare

26:35

knuckle, I could do a lot more damage.

26:38

A lot more, but I don't. I don't think it's a body. I like to

26:40

do the... I don't want to hurt no

26:42

one. I don't have to... But there were some fights I

26:44

was in and I fought people

26:46

that were bad evil bastards. They

26:48

tried to do me in. I mean, a sinister

26:51

agenda they had for the

26:53

beginning. Some people are rotten. I never had

26:55

that. See, you're the proper fighting man,

26:57

right? A proper fighting man is a good

26:59

man. It's a heart. A proper fighting

27:01

man ain't a bully. I'm a bully slayer.

27:03

I don't like bullies. If I have

27:05

it all in my pocket, I'll give it to you. I

27:07

think Michelle was back to putting on your gold. That's

27:10

how I am a man because God gives those who

27:12

give. But a bully, if you

27:14

look at their life, they're constantly

27:17

targeting someone or putting someone down because

27:19

they're jealous of someone and

27:21

they pretend to be a bully and a good person. I've

27:24

dealt with a lot in my life. Sometimes

27:27

I fought some bullies and

27:29

they're the ones that really deserve a good beating. You're

27:35

listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our

27:37

guest, Bobby Gunn. We'll be right back. This

27:39

episode is sponsored in part by StoryWorth. My

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course at 6minutenetworking.com. Now, back

30:41

to Bobby Gunn. It

30:44

must be, I don't know if this

30:46

is the right way to phrase it. It probably feels

30:48

pretty good to hit a real bastard in the face

30:50

as opposed to a guy who's just trying to feed

30:53

his family. Like, it's a totally different feeling. I love

30:55

you. Yeah,

30:59

it feels good to do that. Listen to me. Here's

31:01

the deal. Some of them are bad, and I told this

31:03

story you saved me a lot before. One time

31:05

I fought this guy. Some of these guys

31:07

that are fighting on the ground, they're

31:09

good people, Jordan. They're fighting for their families. Yeah.

31:13

You know, and I fought this guy

31:15

one time, and he came up to fight me. He was like, oh,

31:17

a big old room like this, and they were boxing, fighting.

31:19

He put five grand to fight. I put five grand. I

31:22

put five grand. I was up with five or ten grand. It

31:24

was winner take all, and he's giving me

31:26

a good old go. He's fighting me. He runs over the

31:28

window. He looks at the window. He comes back to

31:30

me. He's fighting me. He does this three

31:32

or four times. I'm thinking, I hope this bastard will

31:34

come. I gang downstairs. I come in, raid his yard,

31:36

try to rob us. Anyways, so

31:39

Jordan, he looks at the window again. He comes

31:41

to me. I hit him right in. Boom. He knocked

31:43

out. He gets up, and he was crying, Jordan. I

31:46

don't mean crying like whimpering. Tears were

31:48

in his eyes like that. I walked out. He

31:51

had three babies in the car. He

31:54

didn't have the money. I get nobody to watch. He

31:56

borrowed the money to fight me. He really thought he was going

31:58

to win. I was game. He's

32:00

come like a proper man to fight. He thought he was going to win. So

32:03

I give him back his money. I was heartbroken. I felt bad

32:05

for him. What I'm trying to say to you is that these

32:08

guys are in the fight game. They're

32:10

fighting for the better life for their kids.

32:14

And there's a lot of heartbreaks in America and the world.

32:17

There's things going on behind people. They're oblivious,

32:19

man. Like this office is going to run right

32:21

now. There might be a burnout of a fight next door. We don't even know

32:23

about it. Yeah. It's really cool. But

32:25

it's there. And everybody in there are

32:28

trying to benefit for something. It's all

32:30

about money. That's all it's about. They've

32:32

got a better life for everybody. It's a bit

32:35

of a sad state of affairs where somebody who

32:37

has kids and can't afford to have somebody watch

32:39

them has to borrow money to go fight and

32:42

put their body up against somebody like you because

32:44

if they don't, they're not going to be able

32:46

to pay for the food or their

32:48

rent or whatever. Like that is... Yeah. So,

32:51

Peter, how do you know if you're going

32:53

into some basement in the Bronx? How do

32:55

you know you're not walking into like a

32:57

trap where they're going to rob you or

32:59

they're going to say, you throw this next

33:01

fight or we're going to shoot you right

33:03

now? I don't know. I mean, you're dealing

33:05

with underworld stuff, right? Listen, okay,

33:07

I go to fight this guy, right? And

33:10

I swear to God, Jordan, I thought he had a sweater on. He

33:12

walks from his at Harry. And Jordan almost

33:14

said he had a sweater on, okay? Big bastard

33:16

he was. He smelled you though, God.

33:18

He must have been the hair of the old idol, but he was

33:20

a lawnmower. Jordan should have been a lawnmower to clean

33:23

it down before he fought me. But

33:25

anyways, we're fighting and he's doing a lot of things you shouldn't

33:27

do because I think he's a super... It's

33:30

some kind of word they use in Russia. Sambo,

33:32

yeah, yeah. Anyway, he slammed me down the ground. I

33:35

guess I'm banging away. Anyway, I

33:37

hit the... Law of the story is right back. His eye can matter

33:39

his head here. When I was hanging like that, the eye socket bust. He

33:42

goes down in the screw-chain pane. The

33:45

kid, his handler, law of the story story, gets to get him by head

33:47

of his story. The kid flipping over him. No, he's down for...

33:50

Bro, he's down. I just count him out. He

33:52

fights over. Yeah. They wouldn't even count

33:54

him out. What? Finally

33:56

he's done and the kid puts the guns in my head. This

33:59

Is just a joke. the a walk in this place. Was.

34:02

In New York. Like. A mansion?

34:05

The. Had pet lepers Jordan lot

34:07

set weapons sees a wall.

34:09

Was. A saying this voice. it's huge

34:12

in our standards, both there was

34:14

you, illusion videos and same rather

34:16

clearly no authorities organ. Millionaire.

34:18

People to yeah mafia people and

34:20

were visibly was last resort. The.

34:23

Oh man. In. A Bag or august. He

34:25

would put. That down as pay the boys

34:28

money. While. Honest to

34:30

God. And. I'm walking with that rooms

34:32

on. My. Good friend. My goal:

34:34

Miles of your his lawyer. His. Desires.

34:37

Are. Joseph carved ah, that means we're

34:39

we're dead And Irish jokes Or Joseph

34:41

Scarves. And I said yes,

34:43

yes, we're going to George anymore. Eyes

34:45

light up my I'm sought. I.

34:48

Guess you'll talk with the money. And.

34:50

Driving. I was pretty well the

34:52

animal for me. I get over that was

34:54

would have probably as or else i wasn't. As.

34:57

Well, as Fight or as the I was.

34:59

I observable a Shabby Underground for eleven years.

35:01

I beat everybody. Yeah, Everybody. The

35:03

Wrong as ornery. On around. So

35:05

she's daughter of like. A

35:07

tough. As guys, you want to fight oriental. For.

35:10

Ridges average All I beat everybody the been

35:12

overly for eleven years. As. Okay,

35:15

get out on good measure to walk away or

35:17

bloggers have it's own way. Sort out As or

35:19

good Gobblers either. More than we ever imagined. I

35:21

should care. They give them all hug. And

35:23

what was that world? is Jordan on telling him

35:25

about. I. Thought I was at

35:27

each other. Yeah, I mean once. The

35:29

black hats that usually run free in the

35:32

jungle? You know your wisdom. Cartel mafia

35:34

guys for share like normal people. Don't.

35:36

Keep Lions. He saw that Netflix

35:38

None of those people are saying

35:40

right? as. voters

35:42

that a bit of a reflects uma way

35:44

i was doing that like that in a

35:47

pit bulls are limited though like i thought

35:49

i might fight deeds and trailer parks and

35:51

parking lots but you got a leopard same

35:53

to the wall on that i'm outta here

35:55

this is just crazy sacrifices know some of

35:57

the moves man especially a neat the street

35:59

by something just crazy. I mean you talk

36:01

about ripping off ears. The book, Staton does

36:03

a very good job of going into detail

36:05

about how you put your thumbs in someone's

36:07

mouth to rip their face open. I mean

36:09

it's gross man. My dad taught me that.

36:11

Yeah. Because I have fish hook.

36:13

Yuck. I watched my old man do

36:16

that to a man one time. That's got to keep you

36:18

up at night. Oh my god. The man's lips were too

36:20

his ears. But okay. So it goes without

36:22

saying though man, this is not usually legal

36:24

at all. Maybe there's some places where it

36:26

is maybe you go to Dubai and they're

36:28

like okay, it's fine. But I assume people

36:30

pay what, a cover to watch or do

36:32

you have to gamble if you go in?

36:34

Like how does that work? Well, underground

36:37

fights are, yeah, you're not supposed to have them.

36:39

Right. But they pay usually about a hundred bucks

36:41

at a door. Each person comes to the door. Okay. Now

36:43

I've had fights where there's 500 people in there. Maybe

36:46

more. I still think that's a big gate. Yeah.

36:49

And then plus the money the fighter's putting on.

36:51

And whoever's backing the fighter, what group

36:53

of families back, how are you doing?

36:56

Do I'm being backed by a group of family? I

37:00

put some 50 grand and he puts 50 grand. The truth

37:02

is it is I probably

37:04

get 20 out of that. Okay.

37:07

You understand? Because they're still getting massive

37:09

money. They're getting that full in

37:11

too. Remember it's winner take all. Right.

37:14

So you got a one. You got a

37:16

one to come home right. So a lot of the

37:18

gangs and gambling is all

37:20

obviously mafia affiliated. I mean, you're talking about

37:23

Chinatown. Is this in the 90s? Tell

37:25

me what it's like with the different

37:27

mafias in different culture, right? Like you kind

37:29

of mentioned the triads and the yakuza

37:31

are just totally quiet, which is really

37:33

creepy somehow during another grand fighter. Unless they're

37:35

clapping. But you're Jordan. Listen though. Again,

37:38

I had a couple of institutes for all

37:40

your to a public situation. I hang with

37:42

crazy, but that really ain't a lot

37:45

for consider how many fights I've had. The

37:47

open people that are show type old bad, kill

37:50

you. They were more better. Nice or do you

37:52

they give you your money? The professional

37:54

box of world power is more corrupted. I

37:56

believe that way more than the underground world.

37:58

And that's a fact. So

38:01

I was trying to say to all these bad guys, it shows

38:03

that the killer is a mob. They're a good man. Properly do

38:05

you a favor. Give me something you need. Who

38:08

asked these guys if

38:10

the boxer world wouldn't give you a quarter and

38:13

you put your life out and fight for them?

38:16

Overall, the underworld was a better world. The

38:19

legal world for boxing I think but the

38:21

pros and cons and everything. There's some crazy

38:23

situation I was in but in general I was saying

38:25

to you, the situation I wasn't bad,

38:28

the good situation overshadowed that. I

38:30

had so many times I was in places that they

38:32

couldn't kill me Jordan. They couldn't. They took

38:34

out the chin but they took out the chin. One

38:37

man by myself, many of us, I walked by myself

38:39

Jordan. Known by me. I

38:41

walked by myself. 300 men. That

38:43

room. I did the fight. I

38:46

walked in proud. I walked

38:48

out proud. I'm a man. See a

38:50

lot of the women, my people, the gypsy drivers,

38:52

they love Dalton Dolls they call them.

38:56

My mother had a fortune like $10,000 of

38:58

little figurines and they're worth a lot of

39:00

money today. I wish I had they were the

39:02

hundred grand but I sold them years ago but mom, she

39:04

loved this and mom was dying. She

39:07

got sick. In Canada, she fell

39:09

Jordan, a young woman going

39:12

to Bingo and she fell in front of the

39:14

bingo and she went to the stop and she was going to the coffee and she

39:16

came home to dad. We didn't

39:18

know. We had no cell phones back until the

39:20

late 80s. She fell in

39:22

black ice. When she fell, she hit

39:24

her head in the ground and she laid there. You

39:26

ever see somebody that moved like a little stick to her tongue

39:28

on a cold piece of metal and it was quite a stick

39:30

full of her wee face stuck to the ice. She

39:33

broke her hip and she couldn't get up. She was roaring

39:35

and screaming for it to be and now we're laying there.

39:37

She screams out. Finally they come and they put

39:39

hot water, got her face well, it was all like

39:42

burnt and they give my mother bad

39:44

blood Jordan. They didn't scream it right.

39:47

Oh no. It went like a cancerous one. That was

39:49

her body. She fought hard. But

39:52

we're an American now. I'm getting her as a

39:54

biz, a bit of a problem, I get her in Pittsburgh. All

39:57

of her stuff was in the Duy van as I was then.

40:00

I we don't have much of the drill been what last

40:02

resort years ago fi going on. I. I

40:04

had a bare knuckle via is Alan all but a month.

40:06

I. Was scared I'm I'm was a solid as a

40:09

book then. He. Tells you was

40:11

it's just a thing is just to finish

40:13

the Pittsburgh story. Bobby's

40:15

mother was in the hospital. Bobby

40:17

needed more money to help pay

40:19

for her surgery. He pretended to

40:21

have the money. He was training

40:23

and a boxing gym. the fighter saws promise

40:26

asked him hair you instead of make some

40:28

cash and underground side tonight. He. Came

40:30

back for dinner that have the money in a duffel

40:32

bag. It was a didn't have it all. They.

40:34

Brought in a big guy and Bobby beat I'm in.

40:37

Took the cash, was able to help give it to

40:39

his mom. Dad. Booker Johnny Burrell

40:41

he says answer to the segway

40:43

in started booking gun and more

40:45

fights and said hey you're good

40:48

at this. And. It was underground

40:50

network look at all my years as a journalist.

40:52

Is the most amazing story I've

40:54

ever come across. Bobby's a true

40:57

underdog tail a real life rocky.

40:59

I think was incredible though. He's a guy

41:01

who's fighting for his family, and when I

41:04

met him initially in two thousand and twelve.

41:06

He. Was fighting to put his seven year old daughter

41:08

to private school. I went with them. I

41:10

saw him drop her off. And. What really struck

41:13

me Jordan was he said, you know, I'm

41:15

not scared about these fights. The one thing that

41:17

scares me the most. When I drop

41:20

off my daughter Charlene. Her friends and

41:22

parents will find out what I do and

41:24

judges error. Yeah, I thought that was really

41:26

telling. And powerful. But

41:28

the. Underground Circuit has been around

41:31

as I detailed for hundreds of

41:33

years. It's pretty fascinating. It's you

41:35

look into the history of the United States.

41:38

Going. Back to the eighties sensory

41:40

tombola Know earnest slaves person in

41:42

Virginia. One. So much money for

41:45

his master implantation belts that he won

41:47

his freedom find. went to New York's

41:49

worked as a dock. And.

41:52

Then traveled across to England and

41:54

and won fame fighting overseas. You

41:57

have stories of various

41:59

underground. The fighters most famously John

42:01

L. Sullivan. He was the classic mustachio

42:03

as Strong Man. If you think about

42:06

this, he was the Le Bron of

42:08

the Eighteen Hundreds. I mean, he was

42:10

the son. It's always been a sport

42:13

for people who are in the most

42:15

dire circumstances to raise themselves up. He.

42:17

Was the son of an Irish immigrant plumber. Was.

42:20

Walking by a store front of Boston. Saw.

42:22

An ad for anyone to come in and take

42:24

this guy down. He took him down. And

42:27

became extremely famous across the world.

42:29

Met Teddy Roosevelt later in life

42:31

traveled in the Wild West circuit

42:33

under a while Bill How Cock.

42:36

A break pressed was oysters and

42:38

whiskey very Irish and you know

42:40

I had like these really famous

42:42

buys that were covered the I

42:44

national news in the eighteen hundreds.

42:47

It. With the rise of religion

42:49

and social Moore's and especially the

42:51

Gamma, the Gatling's always been central

42:54

to bare knuckle boxing. I, it

42:56

really was deemed unsavory. This is

42:58

not correct with our Victorian values.

43:01

And that's when you saw what John

43:03

L. Sullivan. he famously Bj Kill Rain.

43:06

A who's descendant later actually was a

43:08

Navy seal on Ran Nato. And. Woodside.

43:10

His heritage a bare knuckle boxing is

43:12

a testament to his toughness. Sullivan beat

43:15

Tell Rain in a fight in the

43:17

late eighteen hundreds. I was covered

43:19

around the world. But. Got such

43:21

back last authorities tried to. Chase.

43:23

Him and and rest and. Boxing.

43:25

Then came up in it's place you

43:27

know again it's more saberi to watch.

43:30

But. It's ten times. The.

43:32

Amount of damage to the brain.

43:34

A good analogy is rugby vs

43:36

in Fl. We. Can all watch

43:38

Nfl with our kids on Sunday afternoon. You.

43:41

Don't see blood much. It's.

43:43

Pretty sad Terry. But

43:45

those guys can hit each other

43:47

with extreme amounts of velocity, impact,

43:49

and obviously do serious concussion damage.

43:52

Rugby by comparison to Psych Bare

43:54

Knuckle. Really any patch is bloody.

43:56

Skin. On skin is bloody. But. those

43:58

guys study so don't suffer the

44:00

same amount of CTE damage. Early

44:03

studies so far in bare knuckle boxing, especially

44:05

with the legal rise of it, do show,

44:07

look, none of this is safe, obviously, right?

44:09

This is violent. Yeah. But

44:12

it does show so far less concussive damage. I

44:15

think what's interesting about the underground though and what

44:17

was fascinating, Bobby was saying he

44:19

was coming up in this in the 80s, 90s,

44:21

early aughts, no cell phones. When

44:23

I first met him, I went to Ike and

44:25

Randy's gym in Patterson, New Jersey, walked

44:28

through a chain. He was talking about

44:30

the valleys. This is not equinox. Yeah, I was going

44:32

to say, that sounds like a place where you better

44:34

know somebody. I was walking

44:36

through a chain link fence, passed a couple

44:38

of pit bulls down and through metal doors.

44:41

This low slung, cramped space used to be

44:43

an auto body shop. There was

44:46

an old landline phone in Ike

44:48

and Randy's gym in Patterson about the size of

44:50

a toaster. That's

44:52

where Bobby would get a call. Bobby would come into the gym

44:55

and be like, yo, Bob, someone left you

44:57

a message. It would be tacked on a wall, gun,

44:59

it'd be a phone number. That's

45:01

where the Russian mob would call him,

45:03

the Latin Kings, the Jamaicans, the Irish.

45:06

Everybody knew sooner or later Bobby Gunn

45:08

is going to show up at this gym. That's

45:10

what he'll call him. You told me you one time met

45:13

the Russian mobsters that came to Starbucks nearby

45:15

to work out a deal to fight

45:17

in their mansion fight. Oh, God. Yeah,

45:19

it was insane. That little phone was the main thing. Every

45:21

time we rocked you out, I thought, yo, call me. Obviously, it was

45:23

weird. That little phone, that's

45:26

where all the big fights come from. Word

45:28

of mouth, secret society. Nobody

45:30

raps one another out. They all want to see it. No,

45:32

that makes sense. That's why they're telling the wrong people about

45:35

it because they're telling the good people. They all

45:37

want to come and see it. But let me ask you a question. It's like

45:39

the forbidden fruit. Everybody's attracted

45:41

to bare fist fighting. Mostly

45:44

they want to watch that more than glove. It shouldn't

45:46

be done. It's forbidden and attracts

45:48

them. That's the good selling point to

45:50

it. Now it's sanctioned that. It's

45:53

just the truest form of combat. My

45:56

first fight, I was working as a writer

45:58

at GQ and met Bobby Gunn and

46:00

he was across the river in New

46:03

Jersey and I said I want to go to

46:05

a fight. I get a text,

46:07

it just was an address. I

46:09

left my office in Manhattan, right

46:11

there in Times Square, went

46:13

to the address, was then texted again to

46:16

another address. None of these locales

46:18

are given in the book. That was a deal.

46:21

But I show up to basically a parking

46:23

lot. It's lightly raining. Bobby Gunn walks out

46:25

in a black sleeve t-shirt with a baseball

46:27

bat. Slung across his shoulder.

46:31

And then David Feldman, who is now

46:33

the founder of Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship

46:35

and was a long time partner and

46:37

promoter with Bobby in Underground Fights, basically

46:40

came up and said if I ever put his name in anything

46:42

connected with this, I'd never write

46:45

again. Because it was illegal. I

46:47

saw a Hell's Angel and a Marine fight

46:50

in a back room of an abandoned

46:52

gym and it was the sound. It

46:54

was the sound of skin on skin.

46:56

It's just this wet slap. It's

46:59

visceral. And the person next to me turned to me and

47:01

said, you know, this shit's cool because it's illegal. It

47:04

was the whole aura and essence in

47:06

going to these fights. The fights weren't

47:08

typically long. It was wild

47:10

and that was my introduction to the underworld.

47:13

You have to see Jordan in person. They're

47:15

really appreciated. While the film was good, but

47:17

in person, it's that atmosphere, that sound. I

47:20

would love to see something like this in person. I'm going

47:22

to text Statham after this and be like, alright, next time

47:24

I go to New York. I'm going

47:27

to go to Chinatown with a pack of cigarettes

47:29

and some aviator shades and watch one of these

47:31

matches. The visceral thing

47:33

I totally get, right? Like, you ever see one

47:35

of those videos online where somebody falls and their

47:37

head hits the pavement and you just know that's

47:39

a head hitting pavement? I also

47:41

understand the appeal of looking at something and

47:43

seeing that it's illegal. I will say I

47:46

went to a cock fight in

47:48

the Philippines and it was really gross because

47:50

I didn't know they died. I

47:52

thought it was just like, I don't know what I thought. That

47:54

was a little gross because it was animal abuse. I wasn't really

47:56

down for that. But there is a thrill

47:58

of being doing something like that. That is kind of My

48:01

head is is illegal but everybody here. Is.

48:03

Doing it for a reason. Nobody. Thing

48:05

forced into it, I guess. Although it's arguable right

48:07

if the guy who's got three kids in the

48:09

back seat of his car is really going this

48:12

instead of doing construction willingly I I don't know.

48:14

To. You dollars are juice oranges. I'm someone who send

48:16

you to bring. Somebody. Said your

48:19

job. right? We have with our

48:21

times and and what happens it's all

48:23

your job there's We'd put next week

48:25

Mp of Residents Foods. I've read in

48:27

the book that your mom is also

48:30

no stranger to beating some as as

48:32

well. There's an anecdote were sea silver

48:34

socks with pennies and then went and

48:36

beat so young woman she was beautiful.

48:38

Jews were rumblings that are. To.

48:40

Go the I person you Devereaux! having also

48:42

gathered, reserve my mom, my mom or wow

48:45

I ever got a job with Mom is

48:47

beautiful. Sousa. Proper woman, a

48:49

pure travel room, and it sets a

48:51

a heartwarming story in which is a

48:54

weird word to use for somebody who

48:56

grows up in bare knuckle underground fights,

48:58

knocking people's eyes out that it's a

49:00

state, and did a really, really good

49:03

job of telling. Your life story and

49:05

a million my humble opinion or not only that

49:07

he put his life and one well yeah hanging

49:09

out with you with a leopard stand and a

49:11

lot one time where of sushi reviews wouldn't be

49:14

one of the robbers. Cameras are guys are only.

49:16

Has it's advantages or is where we Roses has you

49:19

that will have to get this through the mail would

49:21

say or sonos Hagan oven. Growth. Game

49:23

and of the others around or your house or he's

49:25

either have a thing where he put himself in line

49:28

Jordan. Is. Either because you know that is

49:30

a good. People. Voters And foods?

49:32

What is going on? And. The world. But. To.

49:34

Do you don't? Brother is quite a journey. Was a. Yeah.

49:37

Well, I mean I was devlin

49:39

nervous at times. I bet it

49:42

was fascinating. And honestly seeing Bobby.

49:45

You. Know the other side of the

49:47

traveler world says he mentioned earlier years

49:49

their devotion to religion. So.

49:51

Bobby. You know, no drinking, no smoking,

49:53

no tattoos. Would like prostrate on the

49:56

ground and prayer. Before. Fights

49:58

a father. During his

50:00

daughter through private school at the Money. He.

50:02

Says a good guy and you know

50:05

that was really fascinating to me. Jordan

50:07

is. You. Know the deeper I went

50:09

with Bobby into this world. Who would

50:11

go and it is dangerous places who

50:13

would endure the savage fights. But at

50:15

the end of the day. He. Was

50:17

a person with a good heart. You know,

50:19

a father. Yeah. Doing it for the right intentions

50:22

and. A really gentle guy. I mean

50:24

he's got his little this little dog Max.

50:26

yeah you know here today that he carries

50:28

around them Bobby as a big heart and

50:30

for somebody to see someone go through. The.

50:32

Kind of tribulations he has in his wife

50:34

and to still have that. Humanity.

50:37

The at his core was really compelling. Can

50:39

I ask how your relationship was with your

50:41

dad's as it sounds like a tough upbringing

50:43

but it also sounds like he was trying

50:45

to do right by you or for you.

50:47

In some ways it's hard to tell. He

50:50

tried on my goal. My will members a

50:52

good man. My. Oh man. Who

50:55

been a millionaire? Theory. On things

50:57

differently. Live with. His. Life. Was.

50:59

A heart of meme. Is quite about

51:01

either one time or do a job at work and. Made.

51:04

A big old farm, been a farm and in august

51:06

young farmer. Who. Somebody else on a

51:08

bad job or we get the blame for as a

51:10

book flow of like this and the Ryota. Film.

51:13

And was over here as regards as well

51:15

join and as still arriving I'm you have

51:17

away so that's a reasonable murdered his rival.

51:20

As a review. Board. Big

51:22

guy, big hobby or we're like you're

51:24

crazy farmers. I'd be muslims or bills

51:26

A of as big as I write

51:28

Hacksaw: Jim Duggan Stress: yes, winners of

51:30

like slackers on your modes is woman

51:32

on. He. Gets out. Of

51:34

I day point zero My values a sort of was revolver.

51:37

And Mrs. Know. He's. Got a

51:39

cigar? It is both Jordan or get. He jumps

51:41

up with years of your daughter of a. And

51:44

he or six sewage as boombox the back. Rows.

51:46

Back was going with his azov amounts of

51:49

own home is was doctor cool of of

51:51

i guess. I. Say we rewards back to

51:53

drugs. Cigar. Developers Wells is those

51:55

more years since Romanced? Oh god, it's aged.

51:58

White at. That's why you usually ask stupid

52:01

girls to be different ways. That's my old man. Bobby,

52:04

tell him that your dad is not done

52:06

fighting. He's still fighting. He's almost 70. Bobby

52:09

will have to go up to 82. I'm

52:11

sorry. But the phone,

52:13

you'll have to ring it once, hang up. Can

52:15

you explain that situation? I don't ring, hang up.

52:18

Wait, five seconds. Call him back. Then he might answer.

52:20

Because people are looking for him. Oh, okay. I was

52:22

like, why is this all happening? That makes sense. Jordan,

52:25

I'm sitting, I swear to God, this is pretty easy.

52:27

I was sitting there, thanks, given, right? Phone

52:29

call. Your dad's acting awful silly. He

52:31

attacked the manager last day. What

52:34

he attacked? What's the next thing I said? No, this should be a reverse

52:36

rule. This should be me in trouble. That might be, I said, okay, what

52:38

he attacked. The guy

52:40

in the bar, he bit the man's neck of a vampire

52:42

and hit him in the right hand. I said, dad, what?

52:44

Oh, I'm just supporting what you think. The next morning, he

52:46

said, for it, he said, angel. I was just having a

52:48

drink, watching a hockey game. The man attacked me, son. The

52:51

truth was, he attacked the man. Like, that's how

52:53

he was edible. The man was being smart with

52:55

him. But what I'm saying to you, you throw

52:57

down. I watched my

52:59

grandfather, my grandpa Jim, he was 84

53:01

years old. In front of

53:03

the old hotel, the Ashbury Hotel, the dirty old hotel, Niagara

53:06

Falls, a lot of the travelers would go there and stay

53:08

there. Rough old hotel. I mean,

53:10

Pims, prostitution, drugs, all right,

53:13

oblivious to that world. We just didn't bother, but we didn't,

53:15

was there. Our trailer was parked right there. And

53:17

one night, the old man went, what are you

53:20

still grabbing? There's somebody out there trying to get in my trailer.

53:22

I said, oh, okay. He runs out with the old man. There's

53:24

a young guy, and he hits him right in the back. Bang,

53:27

bang. Cold. The old

53:29

man could fight. Put him out of cold. The police come

53:31

down. He did a series of rest. The older guy,

53:33

because the old man had a bit of money in the

53:35

trailer. He scared himself. He's telling a bit. He said, buddy,

53:37

throw down a Barbie. Fighting to us

53:40

is bred into us. In traveler culture,

53:42

Jordan, it was interesting. Your

53:44

ability to fight and defend your family

53:46

name, it's a sense of honor. In

53:48

a culture where there's not always a

53:50

lot of material, home, wealth, that kind of

53:52

thing, because it's an itinerary lifestyle. Your

53:55

ability to fight is representative of your

53:57

family, of your clan, of your lineage.

54:00

was interesting Bobby told me a story it's in

54:02

the book about how you beat

54:04

up a person in a fight who

54:06

I think your father or your

54:09

grandfather. Your grandfather. You want to tell that story? It

54:11

was my dad. And you were a kid? It's the

54:13

apple of Florida right? My grandfather before that beat

54:16

a man called John R. Robinson. He

54:18

come to my grandfather's door. Grandpa was

54:20

50-96 years old and John R.

54:22

was about 23 years old. He big yupp and comin wanted

54:24

to be a fighter. So two guys run the fight by

54:26

grandpa. But actually the guys that come with him

54:28

like they should have done that. They come

54:30

looking for the old man. The old man had a name. You understand

54:33

what's wrong? He don't challenge a man in that old fight. So

54:35

he comes over, step out Jim I want to fight you right now. My

54:38

uncle told me a story to you. He says okay

54:40

he says let me finish my cup of tea. Not

54:42

a bit worried at all. This is

54:44

the aggravate of a finished play to you. No problem close that door. He

54:47

just told my granny, get me my

54:49

trods out. That means your shoes trods. She

54:52

jolles out these old boxes of shoes. He puts them on. He

54:54

walks outside and I mean he blistered this one. He put

54:56

them like he looked. He grabbed a Jim Ponce

54:58

a piss right out of the fight. Put him butt in the pits.

55:01

Now stop there. That happened.

55:03

Grandpa beat him. The old man. That

55:06

man, Grandpa beat, was a lot

55:08

younger than grandpa. Now my dad

55:10

in 1984 were in Florida. Billy Robison he

55:12

called that. Billy Robison was this man's son.

55:14

He said my grandpa beat. Grandpa beat John

55:16

R. Robison. He had a boy called Billy.

55:19

He groomed him and made him. Dad

55:22

was sitting around. This one come to the trailer camp. A few

55:25

drinks and looking at a little bit of trouble. My

55:27

father slaughtered him. I mean dad just butchered him bad. I

55:29

mean put a bad beat on him. He would become looking

55:31

for it. He was pretty degrading beating dad. Give

55:33

him okay. He went back to his trailer in front of

55:36

the man's wife to this is degrading in front of the

55:38

family. So at four o'clock when we called his

55:40

grandpa in Canada. Oh yeah. We just

55:42

stiffened. He obviously talked to him. I said, why?

55:44

He said dad beat Robison right right. Put him

55:46

on the floor. Here's your granny son. Did

55:49

you get him good? Oh

55:51

good. She says good. It's

55:53

insane. That was it. But that's the God

55:55

truth. I said God truth. I said things

55:57

happen like God man. My

56:00

son told me he watches the movie 300

56:03

a lot and he said, I really identified with

56:05

the Spartans. He's like, that's just our culture. We

56:07

are just, a lot of people wouldn't

56:09

understand it, but I wouldn't have it any other

56:11

way. And that's true. And there's a story in

56:13

the book. There's a lot of crazy fight stories, but maybe one

56:15

of the most crushing stories in the

56:18

book is when Bobby, I think

56:20

a man was insulting you, another traveler. And

56:23

so you went into his home at his dinner

56:25

table in front of his family and

56:27

called him outside and the

56:29

man wouldn't get up to stand and fight him.

56:31

And that was the ultimate sense of shame that

56:33

was bestowed upon him in that culture

56:35

because he wouldn't get up to fight. And it was the

56:37

worst insult you could have done as opposed to knocking him

56:40

out. The reason why he does that, because I'll tell you

56:42

why, because I knew what he was. See

56:44

sometimes you have guys that want to

56:47

announce a fight for a police officer to secure an order,

56:49

you know, shove them all. Right. But

56:51

a man who wants to fight, hey my pal, let's walk

56:53

over there and have a little talk me and you, okay? That's

56:56

a fight. If I announce it in

56:58

front of a movie theater, hey I'll kill you stone

57:00

dead. I don't really have the only thing to fight

57:02

about Raver. It's a lot of ravers in

57:04

the world. So what I done, I waited till he got, he

57:06

had a little Raven contest with me. I said, I'll see you

57:08

later on my boy. I see you later.

57:11

I went right to his trailer in front of his kids. I walked

57:13

in, I was looking over the way, he said, you have no

57:15

intention, you're a cowardly bastard. I told him

57:18

the truth and he cried and I walked out. He

57:20

had to live with that the rest of his life. I cut my

57:22

head off and die before I take a back step. An old

57:24

man born of a mother. I would take

57:26

a back step. I walk out of the door to 10 Mike Tyson's.

57:29

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who support the show. Now for the rest of

59:52

my conversation with Bobby Gunn. You

59:56

Mentioned your dad is in his 80s. Than

1:00:00

three percent of travelers live even to

1:00:02

age sixty five when that That's this

1:00:04

shocking statistic. What do you said? they

1:00:06

were dollars or Euros or lover your

1:00:08

problem And that I see today. Twenty.

1:00:10

Five or you're moving yes our table disabled

1:00:13

little to care of bodies the doing things

1:00:15

you simply don't as a little bit because

1:00:17

you feel my was always tell statics friends.

1:00:20

He does his regular humans along with sort

1:00:22

of i see the when three fifty four

1:00:24

balls a mere what I gathered as exact

1:00:26

myriad of worth. He's or Menzies Christmas is

1:00:28

disabled by the will Manny's are on the

1:00:31

but my grandfather for him was ninety seven

1:00:33

years old or bus ride rarely was. I'll

1:00:35

get it was a hard people. With.

1:00:37

Young generations of they. Are not

1:00:39

like the hard as it. Were. Harder as

1:00:41

off what else are we will either? didn't softly

1:00:43

jealous of each other's heads Eliezer and same way

1:00:46

I don't know what it is and I I

1:00:48

don't want to speculate but I soon there's some

1:00:50

lifestyle changes that may be have happened but also

1:00:52

your life that I mean let's say was what

1:00:54

was this in above statement was like summer teeth

1:00:56

and as I lay mean by summer teeth it's

1:00:58

had somebody with pliers. Summer in summer night at

1:01:00

that was one grows and I'm no doctor but

1:01:02

that cyber health care and might have something to

1:01:04

do with the lifespan of sixty five or as

1:01:07

a fighter. As for you as I write I'm

1:01:09

afraid of what you guys are. his a bomb.

1:01:11

And. Awesome Go! My hands swollen zone Me: I.

1:01:14

Go Home! And I tell

1:01:16

dad airplane their soldier was all your

1:01:18

hand Boise.dot is overton. Com era's his

1:01:20

voice. I'm here to sing. And was

1:01:22

rihanna hot water of squealing his squeezes. The.

1:01:25

To pop a man a juice reduce my

1:01:27

they're obviously not yours Yeah, Tuesday as human

1:01:29

By source of that a blog by. I.

1:01:32

See it all my life. I wasn't wasn't. A

1:01:34

C ties with for so poor. By.

1:01:36

Put water in serial. It

1:01:39

embodies evil. And. My seen people

1:01:41

drive bys. The. Tables or

1:01:43

money, it be Luhya. See.

1:01:45

The time. I was half

1:01:48

Irish and Scottish. use them. I was real.

1:01:50

You. Have for years of assume that if. And.

1:01:53

when you're older. or we are those

1:01:55

or had like causes it love those do our

1:01:57

family and but or lot of ones sorry And

1:02:00

they let you know. They tell

1:02:02

you real quick. They tell you all your faults. And

1:02:05

that was my drive from life. They

1:02:07

climb the mountain to get out of that mountain

1:02:09

to successful. I don't want revenge. I don't want.

1:02:11

I just wanted to know that I

1:02:14

would never be like that. So I got a good

1:02:16

heart in my power. I won't assault somebody. I'll

1:02:18

do you a favor if I can. Honest

1:02:21

to God, if you're inside the road, all

1:02:23

I had a hundred bucks for my pocket, you had to be with

1:02:25

me, kids. I would give you a hundred. I'll go give you a

1:02:27

hundred. Because I know God will give me back ten hearts. So I

1:02:29

do that. And I know I've seen that.

1:02:32

I promise the Lord has repaid me so many times for

1:02:34

good things I've done. But you see a lot

1:02:36

of people in the world today, Jordan, wouldn't give you

1:02:38

a glass of water if you were dying of thirst. How about

1:02:41

the church holy moorers? Go on the church. If you're broke down

1:02:43

south of the road, they'd turn around and pretend they didn't see

1:02:45

you. You have to put their hands up and tell you

1:02:47

they love the Lord. See, actions speak louder

1:02:49

than words. You do

1:02:51

something, you do it. It's like this here, Jordan.

1:02:53

How many times you see at a bar, someone rave up and

1:02:55

down? I'm going to kill her. Yeah. His

1:02:58

bark's a lot more worse than his bite. If

1:03:00

there's a little guy in the corner, he's going to say nothing. Start

1:03:02

with him and you'll have one of your hands. That's the one that

1:03:04

you see. I learned things in life. The guy

1:03:07

raves up and down, blowing a big

1:03:09

old horn, rather than he's the biggest puffing

1:03:11

house. And Jordan, just to speak

1:03:13

to summer teeth. Yeah. It's

1:03:15

interesting, the home remedies that Bobby was

1:03:17

raised to be treated for his cuts,

1:03:20

it's kind of like a Mad Max culture.

1:03:22

It's an itinerary culture. A lot

1:03:24

of it was based around automotive techniques.

1:03:27

I think kerosene was rubbed on your cut.

1:03:29

Oh my God. Yeah, tell me about that.

1:03:31

You said for sore tooth, a dab is

1:03:33

starter fluid. Starter fluid on a swab for

1:03:35

a bad effect of tooth. I mean, I

1:03:37

guess technically that might be effective for the

1:03:39

wrong reasons. Brother, I see my old man

1:03:41

do self-operations. You can't believe it. He put

1:03:44

WD-40 on it. That would make no sense.

1:03:46

Okay, Dad. Some things, brother, I embrace that

1:03:48

culture, but I won't do some things they

1:03:50

do. I'm forced to realize that, but

1:03:52

it's insane. That's, I

1:03:54

mean, I read the kerosene thing, like, oh, put

1:03:56

kerosene on your cuts and help them heal. And I'm

1:03:58

like, I'm going to Google. this but I think I

1:04:00

already know the answer as to whether or not that's effective. Like

1:04:06

maybe it kills the germs but it

1:04:08

also puts gasoline or petroleum into your

1:04:10

blood stream. Brother, brother, it's insane.

1:04:12

It's just the work we used to do like we

1:04:14

were spraying that little ash on it

1:04:16

with no mask on. Fumes

1:04:18

or life. Your gold bars. I

1:04:20

was up right as a wee boy. You know a 40-foot ladder,

1:04:22

right? Extended. Eight

1:04:25

years old with a 20-pound paint rod on

1:04:27

my back. Go up there and paint that roof

1:04:29

down. Eight, nine years old.

1:04:31

Oh my God. Up the ladder. And you couldn't see

1:04:33

the roof. And you looked like you were going

1:04:35

and you said, wow, that's okay. Dad trusted him. It's

1:04:37

spraying the roof down. And

1:04:40

honest to God, brother, it made you better.

1:04:42

I'm not complaining about it. It wasn't normal but

1:04:44

that was our life. Our life was normal to

1:04:46

us because it was our life. This

1:04:49

is probably an obvious question. But

1:04:52

so if you have an itinerant lifestyle, right? You're

1:04:54

traveling all over the place and you're working at

1:04:56

age eight or whatever it was, are you not

1:04:58

in school at all? No, I wasn't

1:05:00

in school. Well, you know, I

1:05:02

was a wee boy. Was I actually grade two,

1:05:05

wasn't it? I thought it was third grade. Second

1:05:07

or second or third grade was in

1:05:10

Canada. They were very different in teachers in America,

1:05:12

right? Okay. I was sitting down trying

1:05:14

to figure out if he accused me of cheating or something. He threw a roll

1:05:16

where he hit my hand. When I hit him, I

1:05:18

punched him. I couldn't take the paint and hit him. He

1:05:21

got upset about it. So dad comes to school. This

1:05:24

is no good for the boy. He can't do this no more.

1:05:26

Wow. He's in school. But

1:05:28

listen, yes, unfortunately, I had no education. But

1:05:30

I could, when I lost to being

1:05:33

smart in books, I know the score.

1:05:35

I could read a bit. You know, I learned to read.

1:05:37

How's that? Reading the Bible in boxes of magazines.

1:05:40

I can't hardly write, can I? Sure. I

1:05:43

can't write a letter. I can't spell you, but

1:05:45

I can read anything. Is that weird? Really?

1:05:48

So you can't write, but you can read? Yeah, I

1:05:50

can read things. I can read the other. I have no schooling,

1:05:52

brother. I can't spell. I can't write

1:05:54

a letter. Yeah. So it is. I

1:05:56

can't write. But it is part of

1:05:58

that, Jordan. Tyson Fury's done

1:06:01

the same traveler culture. Kids are usually

1:06:03

taken out of school around age 11,

1:06:06

middle school, the onset of puberty. They don't

1:06:08

want them to assimilate with broader culture. I

1:06:10

see. That's usually when they're

1:06:12

taken out and taught their fathers trade.

1:06:15

Bobby got taken out earlier. It's

1:06:17

part of that cloistered culture to

1:06:20

pull kids from formal education. If

1:06:22

you think about it, Roma culture

1:06:24

is actually quite famous. Everybody knows

1:06:26

about some of the typecast stuff

1:06:29

like the psychic with the crystal ball. Now, of

1:06:31

course, I'm drawing a blank, but

1:06:34

the dancing, the flamenco dancing, that's also rough.

1:06:36

Elvis Presley was half traveler. You know that,

1:06:39

right? I did not know that. That's incredible.

1:06:41

That totally makes sense now that you said

1:06:43

it. He was a twin. His mother was

1:06:45

a Smith, and he was traveler, a Smith.

1:06:47

The Yule Brenner also? Charlie Chaplin. Charlie Chaplin.

1:06:49

I thought Charlie Chaplin was Jewish. Are there

1:06:52

Jewish travelers? Tom Jones. It's an oral tradition,

1:06:54

Jordan, that they carry. A lot of time,

1:06:56

I will have been at traveler gatherings, and

1:06:58

there will just be spontaneous songs break

1:07:01

out. I mean, it's not a culture as

1:07:03

deeply about academics and books, so to

1:07:05

speak, but it is a gathering of

1:07:07

community and a sharing of oral tradition,

1:07:10

a sharing of song. I mean,

1:07:12

it's a huge wealth of talent of people

1:07:14

in the traveler culture. As Gunn is pointing

1:07:16

out, some of them have broken through to

1:07:18

mainstream, even though audiences wouldn't have known it.

1:07:20

Has God truth? I mean, it's insane. With

1:07:23

our people, at any time, it could be

1:07:25

weddings, parties. You have no idea what

1:07:27

could break out. I mean, I fought Roy Jones, and I

1:07:29

remember coming back from the fight. Literally, this cut back fight.

1:07:31

This stop the fight, I cut my nose, which I

1:07:34

walked back. Everybody's screwed, being nice to me. Here's

1:07:36

the hotel, and here's the bar. Within

1:07:39

seconds, I had a full fight

1:07:41

with three or four people. My boy beat up one. We slaughtered

1:07:43

him, and this

1:07:45

happened right after the fight? It didn't happen. It

1:07:48

was over everywhere back in the world. That is

1:07:50

so bizarre. I don't know where. It's the same

1:07:52

man. Yeah. It's the Wild West. You bet. And

1:07:54

Bobby's definitely one of the most famous travelers. Tyson

1:07:56

Fury's a world heavyweight champion. He said Bobby Gunn

1:07:59

is the king. of bare-knuckle

1:08:01

bobs. I read that. What's amazing

1:08:03

about Bobby, he came up under Carl

1:08:05

King, who was Don King's son, basically

1:08:08

started at age 15 in Las Vegas,

1:08:10

lying about his age, fighting in pro

1:08:12

boxing matches, was a sparring partner, never

1:08:14

really got his due, left

1:08:17

the pro boxing role at about age 2021 when

1:08:20

his mother died. 10 years,

1:08:22

he was in the underground and became

1:08:25

a legendary, almost a myth, a fighter.

1:08:28

But with the birth of his son, Bobby Jr.,

1:08:30

he wanted to show him he was more than

1:08:32

that, came back to pro boxing

1:08:34

at age 30. I

1:08:36

have joined him for a lot of

1:08:38

these fights. He fought major people, Thomas

1:08:40

Atomak, James Toney, Roy Jones Jr. What

1:08:43

was fascinating is a lot of these guys

1:08:45

are world heavyweight boxers, world famous. They

1:08:48

knew about Bobby's underground prestige now. Roy

1:08:50

Jones Jr. came up in Gulf Coast,

1:08:52

Florida. His father had cock fighting birds.

1:08:55

He grew up around blood sports. I

1:08:59

interviewed him at a fight and

1:09:01

he founded fascinating Bobby's background. Bobby

1:09:04

is a truly amazing story and he did

1:09:06

become an IBA, a world champion boxer, cruiserweight

1:09:08

in his own right. But

1:09:10

it's this underground legend

1:09:12

and bare knuckle that is funnily

1:09:14

enough made him world famous. Now,

1:09:17

the sport that he helped bring back

1:09:20

to the forefront of American culture is on

1:09:23

the rise. He's the best rising combat

1:09:25

sport in the world. Bare knuckle

1:09:27

fighting championship has 48 events

1:09:30

across the country and world

1:09:32

this year. Valuation, they

1:09:35

put it around 400 million. That's

1:09:37

up from $500,000 they made in 2018 when Bobby fought in their first match in

1:09:43

Wyoming. It really is

1:09:45

just an amazing, amazing story. A lot of

1:09:47

groups are coming up to tell you, as

1:09:49

a VYB, that they're doing good. While these

1:09:51

guys are trying to make bare knuckle boxing

1:09:54

become sanctioned, I fought the rest

1:09:56

fighters of the world in boxing. But

1:09:58

I would like to say this year that I wasn't just fight,

1:10:00

if I had to fight the judge's referees,

1:10:02

a lot of controversial establishments, you

1:10:04

know you're talking right now. You know I don't care about

1:10:06

a cut. I had to

1:10:08

stop fights I got but the guys I lost in

1:10:10

the ring, I tell you what, they wouldn't last

1:10:12

me five minutes in the street and they know

1:10:15

that and I know that in my world. My world

1:10:17

is a different world and

1:10:20

I was the king of my world for a long time

1:10:22

and I run it and I'm proud and I

1:10:24

pray to God. All my

1:10:26

things I went through. I try to

1:10:28

pave the road for now to be a sanctions where I

1:10:30

work so hard to make a sanction. We push

1:10:32

so hard to three commissions and

1:10:34

that was it is going real good. It's been

1:10:36

wonderful but I want everybody not

1:10:39

to be out under the ground like be

1:10:41

above the ground legalized and making money off it and

1:10:44

doing good on it. I hope maybe I

1:10:46

could pave the road for these guys do today the

1:10:48

right way. I mean it sounds like you you most

1:10:50

certainly have. I know we're running out of time. I

1:10:52

have a couple just quick ones here. So travelers

1:10:54

are not supposed to socialize with people who

1:10:57

are not travelers right? Are you kind of

1:10:59

an exception because you're a public figure? I

1:11:01

always kind of do my own

1:11:04

thing. I might be out of the box but

1:11:06

I thank God I got a good pal here.

1:11:08

I'm this man coming. My first man I thought

1:11:10

he's a nice good looking little guy a little

1:11:12

nerd. I didn't know first his little shoes on.

1:11:14

That's pretty accurate description buddy. What a man to

1:11:16

come in here. I'll tell you what he said.

1:11:18

Fair play to him though Jordan like yourself. I know

1:11:21

you're a proper man. He's a proper man.

1:11:23

He's been involved with situation with me. My God you're

1:11:25

family. I feel so bad if he did he come

1:11:27

through it. But we're almost into you. Yes

1:11:29

a lot of times you don't socialize other groups

1:11:31

that but I'm glad I did. I show

1:11:34

that I'm in a good pal here. Two totally

1:11:36

different worlds but thank God for it

1:11:38

Jordan and maybe my book to do anything. I would

1:11:40

say to you this year why don't you who you

1:11:42

are? What race you are? Whoever will bless you sir.

1:11:44

Serve it your very best. I

1:11:47

promise you if you want something go for it because

1:11:49

you don't want your regret rest your life and go for

1:11:51

it. Don't let nobody tell you can't do something. Because

1:11:54

see they can't do it. You block them out like

1:11:56

a horse raised a horse. He puts their vitals on

1:11:58

his eyes for a reason. because you don't see

1:12:00

the horse running, but horse to the left. The prize,

1:12:02

the finish line. You might not get

1:12:05

there fast, but you'll get there. I promise

1:12:07

you to do it. Please go for it.

1:12:09

Don't sit back. I wish I was going to do

1:12:11

it. Do it. You've got

1:12:13

one life. You've got one name. You've got one

1:12:15

story. We all got stories. Everybody's

1:12:17

got a book. Our own selves. Make

1:12:20

your book a good book. Don't leave the

1:12:22

pages blank. Fill in the gaps. Go

1:12:25

for it in life. You can do it. You can

1:12:27

do it. I did it. My God,

1:12:29

brother. You can do it. I

1:12:32

really wish we did this one in person. One,

1:12:34

I would take you guys out for a...

1:12:37

There's so many stories that we just don't even have time for, so I would

1:12:39

love to see you. I got to see you, Jordan. I want to come to

1:12:42

us. You've got to do it. I want to see you. Absolutely.

1:12:44

Also, I'd have you teach me how to throw a legit

1:12:46

punch because I only know like judo shot nonsense. And I'm

1:12:48

like, I could learn from this guy. I could use at

1:12:51

least one move, you know, just in case. So

1:12:53

I appreciate that. I wish you good health. All

1:12:55

the best to you and your family, Bobby. Thank you, Jordan. Thank

1:12:57

you for joining us as well. I know you booked a flight

1:12:59

to get out there and this has been a little bit of

1:13:01

a technical cluster. And I

1:13:03

just really appreciate you sharing all this today. It's incredible.

1:13:06

I love this episode. I think it's so

1:13:08

interesting. Jordan, thank you. In

1:13:10

closing, there's a poem in Edinburgh, Scotland, a

1:13:12

wall. It says, and

1:13:14

everybody here, it says, life's

1:13:16

the time you only borrow. Yet here

1:13:19

today ain't gone tomorrow. Like we stowed

1:13:21

up on a wee river. You're here for a wee moment.

1:13:23

You're gone forever. Go for it. Time

1:13:25

goes by too quick. Go for it.

1:13:28

I've got some thoughts on this episode. But

1:13:31

before I get into that, here's a trailer

1:13:34

from my interview with Leila Ali, daughter of

1:13:36

legendary boxer Muhammad Ali. She's

1:13:39

got a great story about how she ended up the only other

1:13:41

boxer in her family and how

1:13:43

she carries her father's legacy. You

1:13:45

have to have it in you to want to be a fighter. It's not something

1:13:47

that you just go, I think I'll just try boxing, you know, because you're going

1:13:50

to get your ass beat. You don't have it in you when you get that

1:13:52

opportunity. It was

1:13:54

a brawl. I mean, it was bloody. It was like crazy. And

1:13:56

I was like, I want to do that. You would think anyone.

1:14:00

You would hurt right? Yeah sure but as fighters it's like

1:14:02

oh that person's a punch that person can't tap into the

1:14:04

tap tap Tap and then everyone's like that BAM that hard

1:14:06

way. Okay. I felt that if you're listening to your camp

1:14:08

saying She's nothing that she did she's at and then you

1:14:11

have to get your ass in there and then you feel

1:14:13

that punch like No, she can punch. No, she's not just

1:14:15

a pretty baby. You see me across that ring looking at

1:14:17

you Like you're my buddy stuff you talk now It's about

1:14:19

to happen just me and you nobody else can get in

1:14:22

there with you You know and it's like I'm remind you

1:14:24

of all the things said they didn't know that street body

1:14:26

Not everyone has that you don't have to sure but I

1:14:28

didn't now you get to meet someone You should see

1:14:30

how they walk see how they hold it doesn't see

1:14:33

there's any fear in their eyes What was your father's

1:14:35

reaction to you wanting to box? He didn't like it.

1:14:37

No, no, you guys were sparring before you to put

1:14:39

the gloves Oh, yeah, he supported me though. He came

1:14:41

to a lot of my fights couldn't be all of

1:14:43

them I could always see that glare in his eyes

1:14:46

with him being proud and just to come in that

1:14:48

arena and having everyone chanting Ali

1:14:50

and you just see him light up to see me

1:14:53

in that ring and him just remembering himself Austin

1:14:56

styles are similar the way I'm shaped my body

1:14:58

shape. So just seeing all that had to be a super

1:15:01

crazy experience For

1:15:03

more with Layla Ali check out episode number 309

1:15:06

of the Jordan Harbinger show Man

1:15:10

I had to say it was pretty sad that

1:15:12

when he fought when Bobby was fighting That was

1:15:14

really the only time that he got affection from

1:15:16

his father I mean, I know they have their

1:15:19

relationship now, but it's a little

1:15:21

bit heartbreaking somehow just as a parent He

1:15:24

also told me something really interesting. He said before

1:15:26

fights He would hear a sound like

1:15:28

a whirring sound and it didn't really make sense

1:15:30

the way that we explained it So we ended

1:15:32

up cutting it out because it didn't quite work

1:15:34

out But it was a quite interesting sort of

1:15:37

vibration that he claimed to hear He was really focused

1:15:39

and really in the zone and it appears to have

1:15:41

resulted it almost in an auditory hallucination really interesting I

1:15:43

would love to have gotten more into that if we

1:15:45

had time I mentioned that he

1:15:47

fought with all the different mobs. There's

1:15:49

a couple of different notes here about the different kinds

1:15:51

of mafiosi So triads and yakuza

1:15:54

so the Asian gangs Chinese and Japanese

1:15:56

they stayed completely silent during the fights

1:15:58

So you got these guys bashing each

1:16:00

other's eyes out and stuff, and

1:16:02

they were totally quiet. And if somebody went

1:16:04

down and the fight was over, they would

1:16:06

clap, just like golf. Others, of

1:16:08

course, were more drunk and wild. You got the

1:16:11

Irish, you got the Russians who handle everything with

1:16:13

violence. Even Bobby was like,

1:16:15

man, these guys just handle everything with violence.

1:16:17

Biker gangs, he said, were quite professional, but

1:16:19

were obviously yelling and rowdy and drunk, and

1:16:21

it's funny to see how the organized crime

1:16:23

groups of each culture had their own unique

1:16:26

subculture that was different from one another. I

1:16:28

just thought that was kind of an interesting

1:16:30

note. As far as cheating in the fighting

1:16:32

goes, people try and headbutt, they try and

1:16:34

duck their head down so you break your

1:16:36

hand on their skull. I don't know if

1:16:39

that's cheating, but that's sort of considered not

1:16:41

cool. Other people forced

1:16:43

others to throw fights, rigged matches, a few

1:16:45

times guys tried to bite him in the

1:16:47

ring, as you heard. I mean, that is

1:16:49

just some Mike Tyson-ish right there. Oh, and

1:16:51

by the way, the term gypsy, as I

1:16:53

mentioned in the top of the show, that

1:16:55

term is offensive. It actually came about because

1:16:57

people thought that Roma, the people who are

1:17:00

originally from India, were Egyptian, but

1:17:02

in truth, they were fleeing

1:17:04

Islamic armies who were invading and

1:17:06

colonizing countries all over the world.

1:17:08

At that time, you had Islamic

1:17:10

Arabic armies that were going into

1:17:12

North Africa, that were going all

1:17:14

over Asia. They were colonizing at

1:17:17

that point in time, and they were

1:17:19

pushing people out. So essentially, the Roma

1:17:21

and the travelers are permanently displaced people.

1:17:23

I'm not gonna say anymore about that,

1:17:25

because this is a political third rail

1:17:27

topic right now, isn't it? And

1:17:29

that's not what this episode is about, although I don't wanna cover

1:17:32

it. Fun side note, I grew

1:17:34

up playing lacrosse with John Sullivan, I think

1:17:36

the fourth, the great, great

1:17:38

grandson or the great grandson of the John

1:17:40

Sullivan mentioned in this episode. Bobby's a

1:17:42

hard worker, man. He trained hard, he fought hard. Now he

1:17:44

does construction to pay the bills. I think it's good. He

1:17:46

probably knew him to quit a very dangerous sport. This is

1:17:48

not a sport where you can make a great living and

1:17:51

save money for later and raise a family. Yes,

1:17:53

you get paid, but you gotta share it. And

1:17:56

I don't think it's a great way to make a living just based

1:17:58

on what it is. And it's a lot of... time away from

1:18:00

home, a lot of time healing. Terrible

1:18:02

anecdote earlier about Disneyland. What is

1:18:04

with Irish travelers in Disneyland? They

1:18:06

love that place for some reason.

1:18:08

I didn't realize they were getting

1:18:10

kicked out because of who they are,

1:18:13

but probably they've had trouble there for it.

1:18:16

This episode's sponsored by Disneyland. Come for Mickey

1:18:18

Mouse, stay to get your teeth knocked out

1:18:20

by a sock full of pennies by somebody's

1:18:22

mom. I'm just surprised that they

1:18:25

were getting removed from the park. I mean, it's

1:18:27

the happiest place on Earth unless you're getting your teeth

1:18:29

knocked out by the aforementioned sock full of pennies. Again,

1:18:32

fascinating story, really interesting upbringing. I know that

1:18:34

Bobby wants something different for his own children.

1:18:36

I didn't mention this on the show because

1:18:38

we ran out of time, but typically, travelers

1:18:40

pull their children out of school at age

1:18:42

12. I think Staten mentioned that. Bobby

1:18:45

let his daughter stay in school and

1:18:48

finish school and get married later because

1:18:50

she loved school. And he just, we

1:18:53

didn't really get into this, but you know, it's his

1:18:55

little girl. He wants something a little bit better for

1:18:57

her, and we didn't get into detail on that, but

1:18:59

I thought that was kind of a fascinating little note.

1:19:01

You can just tell this is a guy who lives

1:19:03

for his family and props to him for that. Thanks

1:19:05

to both Bobby and Staten for coming on the show

1:19:07

today. All things Bobby Gunn and the book, of course,

1:19:09

will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts will

1:19:11

be in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, and

1:19:14

ways to support the show, all at

1:19:16

jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the

1:19:18

show. And if you buy the book, which

1:19:20

will be linked in the show notes, those

1:19:23

book links help support the show as

1:19:25

well. Also, we've just revamped our newsletter,

1:19:27

We Bit Wiser. So instead of doing

1:19:29

summaries of past episodes, we've actually reoriented

1:19:31

the newsletter around one super brief, very

1:19:33

practical takeaway. The idea is to

1:19:35

give you something specific, something practical, something that'll have

1:19:38

an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your

1:19:40

relationships, in under two minutes, making We Bit Wiser

1:19:42

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1:19:44

newsletter before, a lot of you loved it, but

1:19:46

I know it was longer. If you weren't really

1:19:48

feeling it and you didn't think it was for

1:19:51

you, stick with us. I think you're really gonna

1:19:53

like the new direction. And if you haven't signed

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up yet, I invite you to come check it

1:19:57

out. It's a great companion to the show, jordanharbinger.com.

1:20:01

is where you can find it. Six Minute Networking, don't

1:20:03

forget about that over at sixminutenetworking.com. I'm

1:20:05

at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You

1:20:07

can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And

1:20:09

this show, well, it's created an association with

1:20:11

Podcast One. My team includes Jen Harbinger, Jace

1:20:13

Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we've

1:20:15

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1:20:17

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1:20:22

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1:20:26

if you know somebody who's interested in these

1:20:28

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1:20:30

traveler life, whatever it is, definitely share this episode with

1:20:33

them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you

1:20:35

hear on the show so you can live what you

1:20:37

learn. And we'll see you next time. Hey,

1:20:41

it's Adam Carolla. Not sure if

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you heard, but I do a

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1:21:02

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1:21:04

have missed. As the world

1:21:06

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1:21:08

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1:21:11

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1:21:13

often lost on today's world. If

1:21:16

you can find it right here. Available

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I'm Adam Carolla and I approve of

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this message. Chapter

1:21:27

one, Wayfair welcomes you to the

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