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Music.

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Welcome to the IT Connect podcast, a movement to connect minority students with

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professionals in the IT industry and therefore bridge the diversity gap in technology.

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Let me now introduce our guest speaker for today who I'm really excited to have on this call. So Mr.

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Darnell Williams is currently a Salesforce application developer who works for IBM.

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He's certified in the Salesforce platform development as an admin and developer.

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He graduated from Grammarly State University in 2017 with a double major,

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Electronics Engineering Technology and Mathematics and Physics.

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During his grambling career, he served as the president of NSBE,

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as well as vice president of the Math and Computer Science Club.

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Daniel has done internships with Apple and Centrelink and has been a phenomenal

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talent, phenomenal, I'll call him, when it comes to the academic technology space.

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So please join me in welcoming Daniel Williams to the IT Connect podcast.

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Podcast. Daniel, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, Kazem. Thanks for having me.

1:15

Man, we're glad to have you here. So Daniel, we're going to get right to it.

1:18

In your bio, I mentioned that you were a Salesforce developer.

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So my very first question for you, Daniel, is I call it a snapshot of today.

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So just tell us what is your role at IBM and what exactly that you do?

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Okay, so as Tazim said, I'm a Salesforce platform developer.

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And basically what I do is develop and deploy solutions for various clients.

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And that is it in a nutshell. So in certain instances, I have to create custom interfaces.

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I'm using the programmatic capabilities of the Lightning platform.

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So that's like using Apex. That's what we use to code more on the back end.

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Or I'm using JavaScript and HTML, CSS for styling when doing stuff on the front end.

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Okay. So you mentioned Apex, HTML. So I think those of us who,

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I guess most of these guys have an idea of what that is.

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I wasn't familiar with Apex that much. Could you tell us just a little bit more

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about what exactly Apex is for someone who's probably never heard it before?

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Okay. So Apex is kind of like the language that Salesforce uses more like on

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the backend. end, it is 19, I'll say 95 to 98% Java.

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So if you have a background in Java and you understand the Java syntax is,

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I'll say it's exactly the same, just with one or two tidbits at the end there.

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Okay. And, um, what would a typical day be like for you in this role with IBM?

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Okay. So we work in the agile scrub methodology.

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So basically we work in, well, on the last two projects I've worked on,

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we've worked in three-week sprints and in Agile you do two to like four-week

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sprints, usually more like two weeks. weeks.

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So a day-to-day would be you start off in the morning, you have a meeting with your team,

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basically talk about, you know, what you have done the previous day,

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what you plan on doing for that day, as well as, you know, talk about any blockers

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that you may be experiencing that's hindering your progress.

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So after you have your daily stand-up, that's what we call them,

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you just go in and you you start

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doing work so you may have let's

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say user stories you have a bunch of different user stories that you

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select maybe you've been working on one already you it

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entails a lot of thinking first of all yeah you have to think of hey this client

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has a problem they put it down in different user stories and you have to identify

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the problem in that user the story and find out the best way of,

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you know, solving that problem. So that's all I do all the problem solve on this project.

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Because the client does not want to deal with maintaining code so much,

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they want us to take more of declarative approach.

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That means like using more of the drag and drop functionalities of the Salesforce

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platform, because Salesforce also allows you to build solutions as quickly as

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possible and minimize the amount of code that you have to use.

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But there are instances where a solution that the client requests needs some

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custom logic or some custom code that's not already pre-built.

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So on this project, I do more declarative programming, but it can easily jump

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up to Apex code and you can really get into the nitty-gritty of actually writing a lot of code.

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Man, that's some good stuff, Donald. And I like that you call out the agile framework.

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So for you guys, the agile methodology is something you're going to hear a lot

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about if you haven't heard it yet. It's definitely, it's been around for a while, but it's getting some more momentum.

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I guess I'll just ask a follow-up question, Donald. I guess, what was it like for you kind of first getting exposed to the agile framework?

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And just tell us a little bit more about that framework. I know you call out

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a few things like the stories and the sprints, but just give us a little bit

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more on how you first started. And if it was an easy learning curve,

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getting into Agile, having not really done it at all, probably in college.

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I've never done it before, but I did a lot of research.

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And that's one thing that we may talk about more as we move on for the podcast,

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but just being prepared, you know, it's always good to be prepared.

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So the Agile framework, it's an iterative process, right?

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Right. So usually before we have like the waterfall process where you have a

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project and you look at it from start to finish, start to end,

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and you go through that entire process in Agile.

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Yes, you have a project plan, but you also break it up into smaller,

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more bite-sized pieces called sprints. And as you go day by day,

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for example, we have the daily stand up.

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You kind of see your progress where you are and then you adjust and it's more flexible.

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So after this sprint, I say we did.

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We're expecting to do 10% of the project, realize we did 15%,

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then we can kind of micromanage and plan accordingly and change things.

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So agile, as the name suggests, just makes you more flexible,

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more agile, so that you can better go through the development cycle and ensure that you deliver.

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So you can notice that, hey, you're a little behind.

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Hey, we need to do this and that. We're a little ahead. head,

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okay, maybe we can spend some more time on testing and so on and so forth.

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That's great, Donald. Guys, I hope you guys, again, we'll be recording this

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so you could go back and listen to it. But I think that is some real value for aspiring technology students, right?

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Because again, what he described was the waterfall model where you can have

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your requirements up front where here's what we want to build.

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We have X number of months to build it. And we're just going from start to end, as he mentioned.

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But again, things change daily, man, in the technology world.

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I mean, things are always, there's always change. And I think it's, again, definitely, if you guys are the one thing out of this session so far,

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be sure to just research more about the agile framework versus the waterfall

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framework and understand how that movement is impacting the technology landscape

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and the job landscape as well. Because I mean, I see a lot of job descriptions where that is a preference for

7:45

you to be at least familiar with the agile methodology.

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So thank you very much for that, Daniel. So, we're going to move into a bit

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of a back in time and talk about your history a little bit.

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I'm sure anyone who heard you speak will say, okay, I hear an accent. So, we'll get into that.

8:02

So, Donna, I'm going to ask you what I believe is the hardest question in any job interview.

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Tell me about yourself and where you're from. Okay.

8:12

Well, I grew up on the beautiful island of Dominica.

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Dylan is also from Dominica. We're actually from the same community.

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We knew each other growing up and all of that. So growing up, I always loved nature and I loved tech. That's the two things

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that I've kind of been around. And I have to thank my parents for that because I remember as young As young

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as six years old, it was around 97, 96, maybe I was five, 96, 97.

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That's when my parents kind of bought us our first computer.

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We had a computer, Windows 95. It was very expensive. I didn't really understand, you know,

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money and all those things at the time. It's only after I realized, oh, they really invested a lot in us.

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Us so having that first computer it

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was just mind-blowing you know it was intriguing on

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my LinkedIn I said that if you look up my

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LinkedIn profile I said that my first electric shock was what kind of sparked

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my interest in in tech that also played a role in me playing around with stuff

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I was fortunate that you know it wasn't worse but I've just always been surrounded

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by tech and And also my siblings,

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some of my siblings are engineers. They work in the medical field.

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I have cousins, other family members who are, you know, doctors and all that stuff.

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So I've always been exposed to technology and tech, even from a very young age.

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And as a kid, I would always have like just crazy conversations with like my,

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my parents and my, my brothers and about all types of things like going to the

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moon and, you know, different tech and planes and just everything you could think of.

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So I'll say my family had a very big impact on me choosing this field and this path.

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I love it, man. Nature and technology. And as you were describing the impact

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your parents had, I almost felt like, you know, you start to sound like Elon

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Musk a little bit, you know, like the parents put that incubator,

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which allows you to really get that creativity.

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And that's something I want to call out because I think parents,

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especially, that's something they have to be conscious about.

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Putting that environment for your children, even your niece or your nephew,

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that's something I'm actually trying to get more into. How do we cultivate that environment?

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So So from early, we sparked that curiosity where people were like,

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you know what? This is interesting to me. What, how does this work?

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And hopefully, hopefully you don't have to get shocked, but hopefully we could get to doing that.

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So I want to get into, you know, how you got from the beautiful nature island

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of Dominica to Grambling. Okay. So let's now move on to Darnell.

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Tell us about your decision to leave the beautiful nature island of Dominica

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to go to lovely lovely Louisiana, to get a bachelor's degree?

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Well, it was actually an easy decision, way easier than you may think,

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because I was in Dominica, and I wanted to further my education.

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I'd done two years of schooling back home, and there was actually a stop before I came to Louisiana.

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I actually went to Morocco for two years, where i got a chance to you know kind

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of learn some french learn a little bit of arabic and,

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let's just say after two years things were not the path to get where i wanted

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to get to it wasn't how i envisioned it so right there i decided to apply for gambling,

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And in the space of like just that summer, I went to get my visa, do all of that stuff.

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And then I went to gambling in 2013.

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So international students talk about a culture shock, right?

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How it's difficult leaving home and going to just a foreign place.

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And when I got to gambling, as I said, preparation.

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I already looked at the Google Maps and all of that. I was still kind of surprised

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by all the trees, but it kind of felt like in the middle of nowhere.

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And as I said, I spent two years in North Africa.

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So for me, it was like I already got the biggest culture shock of my life previously.

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So coming to Grameen was a relatively easy transition.

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I was closer to home, although I was pretty far away from home.

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And starting off at Gremlin, it helped having friends, having people that you

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knew. So first, right off the bat, as I said, I knew Dylan.

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He's on the call and he's one of the people that kind of helped me get accustomed to Gremlin.

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He introduced me to different people like Kazim and other people,

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Caribbean people that he associated with.

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And these individuals.

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Played a huge role in me just making a

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smooth and quick transition into not

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just my classes and you know registering and

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all that stuff but you know getting jobs and getting different you know opportunities

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on campus so thanks again Tessian and Dylan so down there you hit something

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when I well I'll give a story first you mentioned about the middle of nowhere

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so when I when I first landed in Shreveport in a route to Grambling.

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My buddies told me, man, it's like a country, there's not much around.

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So I got to Shreveport, which is about an hour, five minutes away.

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And I saw Circuit City, which is no longer existing, but back then it was a thing.

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I'm seeing Circuit City, I'm seeing big buildings. I'm like,

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my guys are, you know, them guys are tripping, man. It's not that bad.

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So I get into a taxi, me and a young lady, We shared a taxi,

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which was like 50 bucks a head. I was like, oh my God.

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So we get into the taxi. I'm seeing big buildings. I fell asleep.

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When I woke up, all I see is trees and bush.

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I'm like, whoa, is he trying to kidnap me or something, man?

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I got no money. I'm just saying. So that was a fun, my fun story. And when I finally go to the campus,

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I'm like, oh, okay. My buddies did not lie.

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It is what it is. But of course, shout out to Grambling State.

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I thought it was a great institution and we both had a great time.

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We both were able to, all of us, when they actually were able to do amazing

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things, even though that was our starting point.

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So that was awesome. So Donald, talk about your, let's talk about the financial part.

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So my, my philosophy is, you know, I really promote the idea of a debt-free degree.

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That's something I'm really big on. So tell me about, you know,

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the financial aspect of your decision-making as far as government,

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government is concerned. Well, you know that our government, you know, they offer, you know,

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full scholarships and partial scholarships to go to different universities in the States.

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And Grambling was one that I identified where I could possibly get,

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you know, a full scholarship to attend.

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I also looked up their programs.

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I saw that their engineering technology program was accredited.

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So for me, it was almost like, well, I know, you know, someone who's over there

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already. So that kind of helped with the transition.

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It's an accredited program. And I like what I saw online. And I was going to get an opportunity to not have to pay student loans.

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So that was honestly one of the biggest factors in my decision.

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Agent. Man, that's good. I think some things you mentioned, I want to really call out.

16:05

You know, you had people who had been there before. And I tell students all

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the time, if you're thinking about going to an institution, think about your network.

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Do you know anybody who's either done that major or gone to the school you're

16:15

thinking about going to? Then you thought about the finances. You said, okay, there's full scholarships,

16:20

which would make it easier for me. I wouldn't need loans.

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So that was part of your decision-making criteria as well.

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The third one was accreditation. You look to see that the program you were going

16:30

to do was actually accredited.

16:32

And I want to just say something that I really hope aspiring STEM professionals understand.

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It's really not about where you go. If you're in STEM, you could go to any school once it's accredited.

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And once you have a decent GPA and you put in the work, you will get jobs.

16:48

Because the demand for STEM jobs is higher than the actual supply for those

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jobs. So I love your decision-making format and the logic that went into deciding

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to attend Grambling State. What challenges, Daniel, would you say you experienced while at GSU?

17:06

Initially, I would say, as I said before, I didn't have too many challenges.

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I was very fortunate, if I have to be 100% honest.

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I got over there. I was expecting a full scholarship.

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And if you have not listened to Kazim's podcast on, what's the name of that

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podcast? I can't remember. He spoke about some of the difficulties that he faced. I never faced any of those difficulties.

17:34

Everything that I expected kind of just happened.

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One of the challenges I would say that happened throughout my time at GSU was

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just, and it wasn't specifically related to GSU, it was specifically related to my status,

17:53

is that certain opportunities that you try to reach out for,

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whether it be additional scholarships or maybe internships or certain job opportunities,

18:05

you see them advertised and then you see the big, You have to be a U.S.

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Citizen or whatever to enroll or be accepted for whatever program that may be.

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And that was one of the biggest challenges, just my status and being the person that I am.

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I'm always looking for ways to try to improve myself and try to get exposure.

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And when you apply for something and you're very excited and then you get shut

18:37

down, not because of, you know, your ability or anything like that,

18:42

but just because, hey, where you're from, you know, that is,

18:46

that's tough. It really, you know, demoralizes you and it's hard to overcome.

18:56

Man, I'm happy you touched on that. And you're right, that is definitely the

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number one challenge, I think, international students face when they're trying to get opportunities.

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That whole must be a U.S. citizen, permanent resident. And I do want,

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if any international students listening, I think it's also an opportunity to

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really realize that, number one, you have to work probably 10 times harder than

19:15

everybody else because you have so much less opportunity available.

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But again, I think it really speaks to your resilience and willing to press

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on. And again, we're going to get into this next. You were able to still find opportunities despite those challenges.

19:29

So let's talk about internships. Tell us about how you approached the whole

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internship finding process and ultimately how you ended up landing an internship with Apple.

19:40

Okay so once again it comes

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down to the people you know

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and the people that know you and

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you know your circle in a nutshell i remember on thursday i said that to the

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guys on the who joined the test call that if you guys are on kazim that's a

20:05

good person to have around because you know And we always kind of,

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you know, push on the right path and let you know about opportunities.

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And when I got that internship, it was actually Kazim who reached out to me. Well, let me go back.

20:19

It was Kazim who actually reached out to me and said, you know what?

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There's an opportunity for this Apple scholarship and internship.

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And you should really try it out. And yes, he told me about the opportunity.

20:33

Opportunity and I could have easily said, well, Apple,

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you know, I'm just a little old me, you know, maybe just lie about it and say,

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you know, hey, I applied and, you know, I just didn't get the opportunity.

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I went through, I filled out the application, I did all of the steps and there was,

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was after the initial application there

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was an interview process so i

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got shortlisted to the people who actually

21:06

got interviewed and actually was two interviews there was a kind of like a behavioral

21:10

one and then you know more of a technical one and eventually i got the call

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back that i was one of the few people who were selected you know for that internship

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and it just stemmed And from Kazin,

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just send me a link and say, hey, you know what? You can apply for this opportunity, something that I wasn't even aware of.

21:33

And after he brought that to my attention, I also had to act on it and go through

21:38

the process and prepare myself.

21:41

And that's kind of how that whole thing went.

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And I, in that summer, summer of 2016, I went out to California.

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I had a great opportunity to, although I felt it's intimidating some of the

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people that you happen to meet, Because at the end of the day,

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we're all gifted, we're all talented, but there are some really incredible people out there.

22:06

But even if you don't get, you may say, hey, this person may possibly beat me

22:13

out to get whatever opportunity or whatever.

22:16

You always have to think positively. Hey, I can learn something from this person.

22:20

You know, I can learn from this experience.

22:23

And that's what you should always try to do. You always try to learn from all

22:29

of your experiences because, you know, that will help you.

22:32

You really kind of, yes, you're in a race against other people,

22:35

but you are in a race of yourself.

22:37

You know, you're trying to be the best version of yourself.

22:40

So I just took that as an opportunity to learn as much as I could, be a sponge and learn.

22:48

Look at me now. It got me an opportunity to land a job at IBM.

22:52

And that's amazing, Daniel. And you touched on so many different things.

22:55

I actually want to pull the thread on some more. But I want to add some context, guys.

22:59

So, you know, Daniel mentioned, I told him about the opportunity.

23:02

And that opportunity for those listening who are attending HBCUs,

23:07

it was an opportunity that came with partnership with the Thurgood Marshall College Fund.

23:13

And they have some partnership with Apple. I just want to backtrack a little bit.

23:17

When I first heard about the Thurgood Marshall College Fund,

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I wasn't grumbling. The first time I ever heard about it, I missed it.

23:24

I forgot to connect with the organization. Then the following year,

23:28

when I heard they were coming to campus, I was on a mission.

23:30

And I'm like, I need to connect to those people.

23:33

When they came to campus, when I was in the front row seat, I connected with

23:36

one of the main recruiters. To this day, I have her as a friend on LinkedIn,

23:39

which I have every now and then. And then I encouraged guys like Daniel to join the organization as well.

23:44

And I'll never forget, the morning I had my interview for the program,

23:48

not for the Apple thing, but for the overall program, I think I had the very

23:52

first time sort of available. It was like 8 o'clock in the morning or 7.30 in the morning.

23:56

Did my interview, came in well-dressed, suit and tie.

23:59

And I kid you not, literally, as I'm leaving the room, I'm seeing the next interview

24:05

person, Darnell, right? Right.

24:07

So I said that to say, man, you know, it's, it's really, it really brings joy

24:11

to my heart when I see people who I point to actually take action.

24:15

And he said, you must take action. If people give you the information, but you don't execute on it, there'll be nothing.

24:22

And I like what he said. He said he could have been intimidated and,

24:25

you know, he could have said, you know, man, it's a big apple, but he took a shot.

24:30

You know, there's a phrase in America right now, shoot your shot. Right.

24:33

I mean, he took a shot. And I like how Michael Jordan said it,

24:37

you know, you could never make the shots you don't take.

24:42

You could never make the shots you don't take. Man, take it.

24:45

So, I mean, try some things, man. Try. Try to get out there.

24:49

You're going to miss some. It's part of the game. But, again, you don't need to make all of them.

24:55

You just need to make the right ones. So, one thing I want to talk about. You were a math and engineering major going

25:01

for an IT internship. How did you overcome those odds to not only get the internship,

25:07

but to thrive once you got to California?

25:12

Well, in software development, it's all about, you know, thinking and solving problems.

25:18

Now, one disadvantage was that I was not a CS major, as you said.

25:23

I did one, maybe two computer programming classes.

25:31

One was in C++ one was in actually I did that C++ class after it was actually in Visual Basic but I.

25:41

To be successful, your best friend has to be, one of your best friends has to be Google.

25:46

You know, in this day and age, you have access to so many resources that,

25:54

you know, I consider myself self-taught, you know, when it comes to that space.

26:00

And that's one thing that, you know, just helped me be successful,

26:06

not only in that internship, but also in my role right now at IBM.

26:10

Just being able to go out there and find whatever information that I need and

26:18

just that yearning to just get knowledge.

26:21

You know, obviously having a background in computer science does help.

26:25

I'm not going to understate that. It would probably even help me even be more successful. successful,

26:30

but just my ability to just think analytically and, you know, solve problems.

26:37

That was a big part of what helped me in the IT space.

26:41

And good stuff, Daniel. So I'm going to transition now to going from,

26:46

again, you did your internship, which was amazing.

26:49

I'm going to jump into after college. So graduating and then kind of that whole process.

26:54

And again, guys, again, if you have any questions as I'm going through this,

26:57

just, you know, flag it and I'll get to you guys. So, Darnell,

27:00

you graduated from college, right? Which is an exciting time.

27:03

Many of us on the call have been through it at least once. So, it's exciting.

27:07

And I think, you know, you're thinking, you know what? I know I'm good.

27:10

I expect, you know, because I know I'm good, I expect to be recruited,

27:14

you know, like a free agent, you know? So, tell us, you graduated. Did IBM just come, you know, rolling out the red carpet for you?

27:22

Or what was the process like just from initial graduation to that season of,

27:25

I mean, were you employed right away? Were you unemployed for a while? But tell us to that initial,

27:29

I guess, few months after graduation. Well, I was employed for a while. As I said, when it comes to sometimes getting

27:37

employed or getting certain opportunities, once again, your status raises its ugly head.

27:46

And for some positions that I applied to.

27:52

One of the biggest mistakes I made was on the application form,

27:56

they said, would you require sponsorship either now or in the future or whatever it is?

28:03

And just by ticking that box, you tick yes.

28:07

Our recruiter never sees your resume.

28:11

So that was one of the biggest challenges at the time.

28:16

Although my girlfriend at the time, not my wife, we had planned on getting married.

28:20

At that point in time i just figured hey you know right now

28:23

you know i'm still on f1 status so

28:27

i'm just going to answer it that way but not knowing that that was such a big

28:32

hindrance as far as ibm goes i was looking for opportunities in the area i'm

28:39

in the shreveport area right now and once Once again, a friend,

28:44

he actually, he goes to, well, he graduated from Grambling last,

28:50

in December 2019.

28:53

So he was at Grambling. IBM went to a career fair. And he saw the opportunity.

29:00

And he said, I'm going to apply.

29:03

And he sent me a screenshot. He was like, oh, yeah, I remember you. You're back in the area.

29:08

So there's an opportunity. they sent me a screenshot and

29:11

kind of similar to kazim i just i applied

29:14

i got a call back at a series of interviews and they went well and one thing

29:21

that helped is preparation you always have to be prepared even if you you go

29:27

through a little you know ups and downs there may be certain.

29:34

Roadblocks you still have to persevere because

29:37

and and be prepared because for

29:41

that interview i actually have another friend he

29:44

become the science at grammar state and currently

29:47

he's a software engineer for chase and i

29:51

kind of spoke to him a little bit about his interview you know

29:54

and some of the questions that he asked because i like

29:56

to talk to as many people as possible ago you know try to get the

30:00

entire idea of everything and you know he gave me some advice you know I prepared

30:07

for the interview and when I got to the interview honestly the guy told me that

30:12

they would call me back but he gave the feeling like I would hire you right now if I could.

30:21

So that's that's kind of how that that whole

30:24

interview process went went very well and just

30:27

came from you know preparing and i cannot

30:30

stress that enough you just have to be prepared i could

30:33

have walked in like i saw these internships you know

30:36

i did some good things in the past but you still have to create another new

30:40

impression with that person that you're meeting so always be prepared kazim

30:45

talk spoke of the elevator pitch you have to have your elevator pitch and just

30:50

Just be prepared and always, always,

30:53

irrespective of your past and what happened before,

30:56

you always have to treat every new opportunity, you know, to the best of your ability.

31:02

Just be ready, be prepared, and just take advantage of it.

31:06

Well, Donald, your interview preparation process, I like how you call it out.

31:10

And I want you guys to understand. So one thing he said that he spoke to as many people in the field,

31:16

right, that he could to get the experience.

31:19

You know, what was your interview like? And I think, fellas,

31:22

I think that's extremely valuable. Asking them literally what questions did they ask you, right?

31:26

Ask them those questions. And I think that, and again, just doing all the Google research,

31:31

I always ask students a trick question. I say, what's the best university in the world?

31:35

And most of them are like Harvard, Oxford. I'm like, nah, it's Google University

31:39

and YouTube University. That's the best ones in the world. And they happen to be free.

31:45

So, but these have to be critical to your research process when you're trying

31:50

to dominate that interview. And here's another good nugget. So my sister who's in chemical engineering and

31:56

I've been kind of mentoring her through the process and she's had about three

32:00

or four internships actually. And I tell her the litmus test, Test. Again, do your preparation, know your stuff.

32:06

But at some point, when you feel the interview making a shift from an interview

32:13

to more of a conversation, that means you and the person have connected.

32:19

And once you could connect to that potential, you know, decision maker,

32:22

and like Donald said, they told him, hey, I would hire you on the spot.

32:26

Like, that's when you know you're crushing it.

32:28

But again, initially it's awkward because, you know, you both have something

32:31

you want from the meeting, right? But once you could stick with it and get to that point where it goes from just

32:37

a business meeting to a conversation and you guys connect, I'm telling you,

32:43

that is the game changer. And as it was for Donner. Go ahead, Donner. If I want to add something else,

32:48

what also helped, and I mentioned that before, but I want to say it now.

32:53

Do personal projects you may they say that if you what's the saying again but basically.

33:03

If you can go out you can learn as much as you you

33:07

you can learn everything in the world but what

33:09

really makes the interview process so much better is

33:12

if you have a personal project that you worked on you can

33:15

show that hey i not only can go out

33:18

and get that information but i can apply it and

33:21

it could be something simple any problem that you

33:24

have in your daily life or just whatever it

33:28

may be just go out there and build something and

33:31

kind of understand the technologies that go on because also

33:34

on my interview you know he kind of the

33:38

interviewer kind of asked me about he asked

33:40

a question and i was able

33:43

to kind of apply to a project that you know

33:46

i created i went online I went on YouTube

33:49

and I'll be a hundred percent honest when I

33:52

finished doing the project I didn't understand

33:55

probably 70% 80% of

33:58

what happened but I went back you know I read some more and I kind of improved

34:04

it we talked about the iterative process and when I got to the interview I could

34:09

really have a conversation and talk to him about what I did and make sure you

34:14

understand what what you're doing as well, along with having great understanding of like the fundamentals of programming,

34:24

because everyone will tell you like, what language should I learn?

34:27

Should I learn Python, C++, Java?

34:30

And people say, I can do 10 programming languages, but you know, they're all the same.

34:36

Just make sure you have a mastery of the basics.

34:40

You know, you understand understand the basics, like, you know,

34:43

conditional statements, you know, the classes, you know, the method is,

34:47

you know, all of these different things that, that go into all of the programming languages.

34:54

And that's, man, that's good stuff, Daniel. Yeah. That's, that's a very common

34:57

question. Which language should I learn? And I think I like the way you address

35:00

it, man. It's really about the structure. And there's a phrase we used last week on our test call.

35:05

What was it? the language and that's not

35:07

a stick yeah i think i think again it's being able

35:10

to think right being able to think and you know what personally drew me to the

35:15

mathematical sciences was again solving problems right and computer science

35:19

just takes that to another level solving problems with the help of something

35:23

that could do more than my brain could do right so so i love that so you're in it now,

35:28

Donald, you've been at IBM for, actually before I go there.

35:32

So in that season of before you officially got that job, I know you tried a

35:37

few different things and we were talking every now and then. And I want to say, guys, when you go to these seasons of whether you're unemployed,

35:43

which I've been myself a couple of times, it's very important to not be.

35:50

Not try to do it on your own. And he even said it, one of his friends gave him the recommendation.

35:54

And what I'm trying to say is, I tell people, you know, when we did Bible study

35:58

and stuff, isolation is the enemy's favorite game.

36:01

It works for Jordan and Kobe, but it might not work for us.

36:04

So it's good to have a team around you when you're trying to find a job,

36:09

trying to find some opportunity, have a team of people who could help guide and coach you.

36:13

Because honestly, guys, it could become depressing at times.

36:16

So I want to just ask Daniel, during that unemployment season,

36:20

man, what are some things you did to keep your spirits up and to just believe

36:23

in yourself that even though I'm getting a bunch of rejections,

36:26

my time will eventually come. Talk to us about that.

36:31

Well, exercise, exercise, meditation, you know, read my Bible,

36:36

maybe not as much as I should have, but, you know, did that as well.

36:41

And just, just practice. They say something like, Like if we're using sports

36:46

analogies, you know, you have that bench player and you wait for when your number gets called.

36:53

You just always have to be persistent and make sure that you're always trying to master your craft.

36:59

I could have sat around and be like, well, you know, I did all of this stuff

37:02

before and I'm not getting some of these callbacks because of,

37:08

you know, my status or whatever it is.

37:10

But you know you just have to constantly try

37:14

to evolve and as you

37:17

said and i read in a book

37:20

recently maybe it would have helped me a little more before i always try to

37:24

be independent you know people are dependent and who are independent and we

37:30

always look at independence as a good thing and it's it's better to be independent

37:34

than dependent but the best thing that you can be is It's interdependent,

37:40

you know, where you not only lean on other people,

37:44

but you not only you can do your own thing, but you can also lean on other people

37:48

and you have a great team around you. But sorry to go off on a tangent, but back to what I was saying,

37:54

during that time, I just exercised, made sure that I was mentally,

37:59

physically fit, tried to keep my spirits up and just kept on working on my craft.

38:05

Man, that's good, man. And I think... I want to add something real quick when

38:10

it comes to the interview process. Usually when you apply for a job, if you get to the state of having an interview,

38:16

that means that they look at your resume. So it's a good sign.

38:20

So what you got to do is that they're not going to go beyond your resume.

38:24

So you have to make sure that everything you've got on your resume,

38:28

when it comes to your experience, that you know enough. Because they usually don't go beyond that.

38:33

But that's what I thought because I had an interview before and I put,

38:37

you know, I was trying to apply for a programming job,

38:40

and I put on my resume that I worked for Java and I was totally surprised that

38:46

the guy was kept on asking me questions about Java.

38:50

And I'm not saying that I was super good, but I was not the best, best student in Java.

38:55

You see what I'm talking about? So when the guy kept on asking me, how do you do this?

38:59

So it was like, so I'm like, it was totally different from all the interviews that I had.

39:04

This was like more technical. Like the guy was doing the interview for me.

39:09

He was actually making sure, he was assuring that, you know,

39:12

if this guy said on his resume that he was a Java tutor, because I was a Java

39:17

tutor for the college that I was. I was helping kids.

39:19

I was like, okay, since you said you were a Java tutor, I'm going to ask you some stuff about Java.

39:24

So that's where I find out is that, and then I started, and I just understood

39:28

that now it's like when you apply for a job, when they call you for an interview, that's a good sign.

39:35

So don't stress too much about trying to find out about the position because

39:39

if you apply for a certain position, they have your resume.

39:42

So they're calling you based on your resume.

39:44

I'm not saying that don't go on Google and try to find out what your position

39:48

will be, but try to focus more about your experience.

39:51

Make sure that when you ask me a question, you know for a fact,

39:55

and that's going to save you a lot. Man, that's some good feedback, Ulrich. I hear the guy say it this way.

40:00

Anything you put on your resume is fair game. game so

40:03

if you feel like you only scratch the surface but you

40:06

put it on there it's fair game you better be ready you better

40:10

be ready if it comes up so that's a good call out already and i

40:13

like what you also said if they call you in again that's the first that's the

40:16

first win so yeah that's some really good feedback i love it and i want to just

40:20

piggyback on what donnell said i i think guys you know control what you can

40:24

control so again he knew his what his status was He knew that he was applying

40:30

and wasn't getting stuff as fast, and he knew why.

40:32

But he also realized, well, I mean, yeah, it kind of sucks, but I could control

40:37

being in better health by exercising. I could control my mind by reading and studying and practicing some more.

40:43

And I remember a couple of conversations with Darnell actually during that season,

40:47

and he would tell me he was working on learning something new.

40:50

And fellas, that is so important to not just say, okay, I'm stuck.

40:56

There's nothing I could do. There is always something we could do.

40:59

The last piece, I think, and he mentioned that his girlfriend,

41:02

the time who's now his wife, you know, was personally, that's been great for me.

41:06

My wife, even before we were married, just having that support system,

41:11

you know, I mean, it's been amazing. It's been just having someone you could just talk to and just share,

41:15

hey, this is a challenge. But just knowing you have someone on your side and we use sports analogy.

41:21

I always tell people, teamwork makes the dream work. So again,

41:25

guys, always think about that team. Who is that core team, your core team, because that will help you navigate those

41:32

storms in life. And believe me, the storms will come. I mean, they're going to come.

41:35

It's whether we can weather them and be strong enough to get to the other side. So.

41:39

I'm going to move on guys. Just a few more questions I have for Darnell.

41:42

I call this, the first one is, Darnell, so you're in technology now,

41:46

you're an admin and developer for Salesforce. Where do you see yourself in the next, say, five years?

41:52

Yeah, so in the next five years, I'm not entirely sure which path I'm going

41:58

to go into because in Salesforce, you know, you have multiple paths.

42:02

But I'm looking at primarily maybe either being a Salesforce architect or maybe

42:09

going into more of the consultant path.

42:12

I'm not entirely sure yet, but those are two of my main options right now.

42:18

Okay, man. Sounds good. And then the last segment of this podcast,

42:21

guys, I call it passing it on to the next generation.

42:25

So I asked just a few questions and we're going to go through them pretty quickly.

42:28

So, Donald, what would your advice be for minorities or underrepresented students

42:33

seeking a career in technology? What advice would you give them?

42:37

Just be confident. Be confident in yourself.

42:42

Make sure that you have the right circle because it's who you know and who knows

42:47

you that can give you that recommendation.

42:50

And just make sure that you keep a positive mindset.

42:55

Mindset a lot of times i know that there

42:58

are challenges there are challenges as a minority

43:01

and they they are real but

43:04

that's not an excuse to not be successful so

43:08

just you know lean on other people there are

43:11

people in this space who have been

43:14

there and have done that and can definitely help

43:17

you out awesome man knowing what you

43:20

know now what would you have done differently

43:24

in college I think I touched on

43:26

earlier I'll be a little more interdependent not

43:30

try to be so you know headstrong like

43:34

you know hey I can do it you know you can have this feeling like I don't want

43:38

to depend too many too much on people but I'll be more interdependent I would

43:43

make sure I have I kind of grow my my contacts a little more I think I knew

43:49

the right people but even moving on After school,

43:54

it would help if I did a better job of just making sure I kept certain connections

43:59

and, you know, I was more outgoing.

44:02

And the main thing is I was afraid to fail at times. I'll be 100% honest.

44:10

In the programming space, they always say, like, you know, fail fast,

44:15

you know, fail often, you know, so you know, like this doesn't work.

44:19

So that's not a big thing. Just fail fast, fail often.

44:23

You know good stuff now just to put one more on that college thread what other

44:27

jobs did you do while you were a student just to give advice on for again for

44:32

those who in college just different jobs that you could do that will not be

44:35

too demanding but still let you have time to. Make some money and also keep, you know, on your focus on your studies.

44:42

Well, I'll just speak on myself. When I was on campus, I become a resident assistant.

44:48

That was my first job, kind of like Kazim and Dilan kind of helped me on that path.

44:54

And I would say from that job, I learned a lot.

44:58

I learned a lot. And don't always go for what would be great if you can get a job in your field.

45:06

But remember I spoke about documentation and

45:09

also being able to collaborate with

45:13

people on teams those are some of the things that I had to develop when I was

45:16

a resident assistant because you always have to speak to people you always have

45:19

to write reports and that helped me in the IT space with my soft skills I was

45:25

also a research assistant I worked for two different professors and once again Again, another,

45:33

just a little tidbit, you always have to be willing to learn.

45:38

I remember there was this professor, he taught my class.

45:44

He said, well, both Dylan and Kazim were from Dr. DeRosa.

45:49

And, you know, I was a freshman. I said, hey, you know what,

45:53

if he has any, like, research, you know, positions, research assistant positions,

45:59

he said, do you know Java? I said, I can learn.

46:03

And he gave me a job. So, you know, you just have to kind of,

46:07

you know, try, just put yourself out there.

46:10

So I did that. And I also worked for another professor as a research assistant. Man, you were busy.

46:17

Yeah. At one point in time, I did, I had both a research assistant position

46:22

and a resident assistant position. Man, that's amazing.

46:27

The next question, what's a book or resource you'd recommend to our audience?

46:32

Hmm well i can kind of

46:36

tell well i'll say google is my is my official resource

46:39

but some books that i've been reading recently and i made a habit of trying

46:44

to read more is think and grow rich by napoleon hill and the seven habits of

46:51

highly effective people i can't remember the author but But those books,

46:57

yes, Coffee, yes.

46:59

And that book in particular kind of helped me with just my soft skills.

47:06

Because if you want to move forward in the technology space,

47:11

you have to be able to talk to people, collaborate, and just build up those

47:18

skills in addition to your programming skills.

47:20

And that really takes you to the next level. And that's my one thing that I

47:26

have been making a conscious effort on trying to work on.

47:30

Just make sure that I build my soft skills as I grow in this field.

47:38

Awesome, man. The last question, Donald, where can people connect with you?

47:43

Well, you can connect with me on LinkedIn and I'll also use myself as an example.

47:49

Guys, when you get your first job, when you land that job, please try to continue

47:57

to be active on LinkedIn. I'll be honest. And I said, I like to use myself as an example.

48:03

I was on LinkedIn a lot before I actually got a job. And then when I got a job, I wasn't as active.

48:11

I had a whole bunch of requests and stuff like that because I was trying to

48:16

focus on the task at hand, which was being a better developer, getting my work done.

48:22

But you still have to make sure that you have to keep those connections active

48:27

and continue to look to make connections.

48:31

And that's something that I personally am trying to improve on,

48:34

Just making sure that I have the connections because this is just the start of my career.

48:41

I may stay at IBM. I may not stay at IBM.

48:44

Who knows? But it's good to have different connections and know different people

48:48

because not only can they help you if you want to move out of the country,

48:54

but they can also company, but they can help if you want to move up.

48:57

Good advice, man. Good advice. And I always tell people, so when you want to

49:01

grow. So I think LinkedIn is a phenomenal platform for growing in the career space.

49:07

So definitely, guys, invest some time, you know, get the profile up.

49:11

And personally, I'm in a similar situation to Darnell. I kind of was,

49:14

once I got a job, I kind of laid back. But I'm actually getting really, getting ready to really ramp things up on LinkedIn again.

49:20

So most of you, I think, will be connected. You're going to see a lot of content coming up.

49:25

So I'm actually getting nerdy about LinkedIn, saying,

49:29

okay, what's my target audience, who I want to connect with and

49:32

it's a fun I like stuff like that so I want to encourage you guys

49:34

to do the same so fellas it's been it's been a good podcast down

49:38

there man thank you so much for coming on um I want to

49:40

give just a minute do we have any just last questions before I give the closing

49:44

statements any last questions from you guys or any last comments my question

49:50

a while ago was how do you guys uh manage but you said you use software development

49:54

right my thing was was, uh, how you guys, uh, how you collaborate with them.

50:04

Did you get that? Yes. That works.

50:07

So he said, how do we collaborate in a nutshell? That's what you ask him.

50:13

Are you asking Aaron, how do they collaborate code wise to make sure one person's

50:17

code doesn't get overwritten by someone else's? Is that what you're saying?

50:20

Not just overwritten, but negatively.

50:23

It's very easy for me to make bugs if I'm trying to go through the whole programming cycle.

50:30

Okay, I wrote this code. Now I'm testing it. Now that didn't work because it had this error.

50:37

We have a whole bunch of people going through that cycle. How do you guys make

50:40

sure that this guy's code works?

50:42

So this guy is going to work for putting together, uh, they call it.

50:47

If I'm writing, though, I'm not writing code more than what this guy with years.

50:52

So that might, they might be close. Oh, clash of the books. So okay.

51:00

I think I understand what you're saying. And if, if, if I don't answer it correctly,

51:05

just kind of come to answer your question. You can always stop me, but right now, like in Salesforce,

51:12

what we're doing a lot of it is declarative so

51:15

we don't face as

51:19

many issues as like you know bugs as

51:22

when like when you write custom code but what

51:24

i will say is that when you develop in

51:27

custom code you have to understand that you have git you

51:31

know you have some repository and usually you have

51:34

code that that works right and

51:38

usually you have to do like a jet pool you pull it down to to your local machine

51:43

and then you make changes and all of that and then you commit and you make your

51:48

changes or whatever it is and that's kind of how you can get an idea of well

51:54

my code kind of mess stuff up and.

51:59

Because you kind of working on your local branch and you have to try to fix

52:03

it before you actually push it back to, you know, the master and merge it with

52:08

the actual code that works. And I think there's some value I want to make sure we capture here.

52:14

So some people might hear this and wonder what on earth is Git? Could you speak to that?

52:19

So it's just a repository central place where you can keep all of your code.

52:25

And usually like you have, you know, the master where you have the actual code

52:30

that works and then you have like your local version of it.

52:36

Now in Salesforce, like for us and other places, I guess it's do the same thing.

52:44

You, you never develop directly on what people are using. So you have like a

52:50

place that, you know, you call production, what your end users are actually using.

52:56

And when you're developing, usually pass your code or whatever it is through various environments.

53:03

You may have like a sandbox where you, you are free to do whatever you want.

53:09

If you break something, nobody's going to stress about it.

53:13

I mean, your managers are going to get mad because you know,

53:16

that's just your sandbox where you can play, where you can do whatever you want.

53:19

You want to do, then you, you'll have to like move those changes to another environment,

53:24

like a UAT environment where you do user acceptance testing,

53:29

just to see if all of your, all of the functionality works and usually in the

53:35

environment, you may have actual data that you have in your production,

53:40

environment to see if whatever changes that you make, sometimes they may work

53:45

in the sandbox and then when you test them with actual data.

53:49

Sometimes it does work. So you have to try to figure out all those things before

53:53

you move it to production where people like me and you actually get to use the

54:01

things that you created. So you should have a lot of different steps where you have to deploy.

54:07

We call them deployments between different environments before you get to actual production code.

54:12

Man, this is good. And again, fellas, you know, that's the value I spoke of, right? Right.

54:17

Because, again, these are things we typically don't learn at the college level.

54:21

I mean, a professor might mention it, but until you actually do it,

54:24

it just seems very vague. Right. So I remember when I was in my internship with a company where I currently

54:30

work, that was actually when I learned about the concept of multiple environments.

54:34

So we have production, we have tests, we have dev. So, again,

54:37

the idea is you don't try something for the first time in your live production

54:41

environment because that could cost the company millions of dollars if you make a big mistake. thing.

54:46

So, and I think it has an impact for life, guys.

54:49

You know, when you hear an idea, you hear someone said, oh, this worked for me.

54:53

I don't think you just do it right away. You implement it in small chunks,

54:57

you test it. And if it works, you implement it some more.

55:00

If it doesn't work for you, maybe you move off. Some people are not breakfast

55:03

people, for example, whereas I see you down there, whereas others feel like

55:08

if I don't have breakfast, like me, my day is having a rough start, right?

55:12

But some people could not eat breakfast and they could be good for

55:15

the day but you test it find what works for you then you

55:18

optimize and make it better and that's how we develop as

55:20

you know as men and as people and become more productive back to

55:23

you donnell yeah i want to add something before you ask

55:26

another question and even when you do deployments one thing that you have to

55:31

always be conscious of not just in the coding sphere but you know in your in

55:38

your professional career is always make sure that you document things because

55:42

Because if you're making a deployment and...

55:47

You have a dependency and you don't you don't document all of your components,

55:54

trust me somebody's going to call you at whatever

55:57

time at night and say that hey i'm trying to deploy this this

56:00

is not working i'm not sure why it's not working did

56:04

you forget some of your components or did

56:07

you document everything properly and it saves you

56:10

a lot and i can tell you a lot of

56:13

headache and some of the projects i worked on

56:16

were not even some of the deployments that

56:19

i have done were not as big as some

56:22

other people some deployments that other people have done so please

56:26

make sure that you document things and you always keep track of whatever changes

56:30

you make i'm so happy you brought that up down here guys i want to go a step

56:35

further i think because because that was something I regret I didn't do enough

56:40

of when I was in Grambling at college and beyond,

56:44

beyond just code. Actually, I remember we had a project on the project.

56:47

We had put together a computerized personal trainer as one of our projects.

56:50

And we were called to present that project about maybe a year later.

56:54

And I had no idea what the code was. I mean, I had formatted my computer a few

56:57

times, so not documenting. I mean, we have to try to fire something back up on the fly.

57:01

We were like three days when it took us probably two months to do the first one.

57:05

So it was tough. So definitely, man, you want to document as much as possible.

57:09

And even from a business perspective, I mean, with the stuff I do,

57:13

the academic tutoring and mentoring for people in young people in STEM,

57:17

I mean, I've been doing this thing for a minute and I realized that back in

57:21

Grambling, I was already doing it, but I did not document as much as I do now.

57:25

So I think advice for you guys definitely is to document the journey.

57:30

All right. It sounds like we're good. So again, folks, it has been a pleasure, Donald.

57:34

I wish you all the best. And just as a reminder, as we're closing again,

57:37

the whole idea of this podcast is really just to help bridge the diversity gap in technology.

57:43

Minority and underrepresented students, I mean, when you look at most technology

57:46

companies, they just aren't there, or technology departments.

57:49

There's very little representation. So we want to help be part of the solution,

57:53

of course, with problem solvers, most of us are in the technology space.

57:56

So definitely, that's the vision. So Donald, thanks for sharing your expertise.

57:59

It was definitely a pleasure having you on i wish you all

58:02

the best in your in your career and also the

58:05

other things you're doing i know you have the photography business also which we

58:08

didn't really get to touch on maybe that's the next podcast but yeah

58:11

it's it's really a pleasure and i'm proud of you as a you know guys

58:14

it's really about passing it on it's about

58:17

passing it on and i remember when donnell came in

58:20

man you know his freshman year me and dylan were mentoring him

58:23

i remember a conversation where we said man we need

58:25

to give this guy a job me and dylan had a conversation taxation and

58:29

my wizard executing and i mean to me

58:31

the most beautiful thing guys is the fact that when you

58:34

point to people and they go further than you've gone and that's what i mean

58:39

my first internship was with lsu actually in a battle rouge donnell's one of

58:45

his first internships was if ibm he went further my first corporate america

58:50

job was if a fortune 50 company right right?

58:53

Donald joined IBM, a Fortune 50 company. I think it's actually Fortune 30.

58:57

So, you know, even Dylan, I think it took me about a year to become a senior with an assistant.

59:03

It took Dylan, I think, six months, right? So as we point to people and we share

59:07

what we know, we have them shorten the learning curve for them to get to the

59:12

next level. And that's what it's about. Because when you guys win, I mean, I win too. That's why I look at it.

59:16

I win because my broader vision, guys, is to one day, I want to be one day as

59:21

an entrepreneur, career person, I want to be making business moves that are

59:26

so big, I need partners with me.

59:29

And who better to be a partner with me than someone that I've been investing

59:33

in and seeing them go on the journey. And if you guys do the same thing, all of a sudden we see a massive network

59:39

just rising up of folks who are doing what we're doing, who have passions like

59:44

we have, and who are all about making a difference and not just a dollar.

59:48

So now I'm off my soapbox. It was been a fun time and hopefully we get to reconnect.

59:57

Music.