0:00

Welcome to the piked In Massacre, a production of

0:02

iHeartRadio and Katie's Studios. This

0:05

is episode ten Wild Country.

0:07

In this episode, we're going to be answering a bunch of

0:09

questions we've received over social media.

0:12

We are also going to be going deeper into

0:14

some subjects we've only touched on and

0:16

talking about some stories we haven't been able

0:18

to tell. I'm Courtney Armstrong. I

0:20

work at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Leidecker

0:23

and Jeff Sheen. Just as a legal reminder,

0:25

Angela, Billy Jake, and George Wagner were

0:28

charged with aggravated murder. Angela

0:30

Wagner's mother Rita Joe Neucomb and Billy

0:32

Wagner's mother, Frederica were both charged

0:34

with obstruction of justice and perjury. Nucomb

0:37

was also charged with forgery. All

0:40

six of them pled not guilty, and our justice

0:42

system presumes innocence until guilt

0:44

is proven. Ali

0:50

from Ormond Beach, Florida asked us

0:53

about the drugs and how they relate to the case

0:55

and if there's anything else in the piked

0:58

In area that pertains to drugs

1:00

that we should know. So. One

1:02

of the big theories behind the murders. We explored

1:04

was drugs and the fact that

1:06

the Rodents did have a pretty large marijuana

1:09

grow operation on their property. But it's

1:12

not just specific to the Rodent or even specific

1:14

to Piked. In the

1:16

immediate area is kind of a

1:19

hotbed that's been affected by drugs

1:21

in myriad ways. For starters,

1:23

there's not a ton of jobs, and that

1:25

has really taken a toll on the town. And just

1:27

generally speaking, Ohio and the southern

1:30

part of the state has been devastated by drug abuse,

1:32

mostly prescription painkillers and

1:34

heroin. In Pike County, the

1:36

drug overdose mortality rate from twenty

1:38

fourteen to twenty eighteen was more than

1:40

seventy one deaths per one hundred thousand

1:43

population. The rate for the rest of

1:45

the country was twenty seven deaths per

1:47

one hundred thousand. That's nearly three

1:49

times the mortality rate of the rest of

1:51

the country. A

1:55

lot of these drugs come in from Portsmouth. Portsmouth,

1:58

Ohio, is the neighboring town to Pike and so about a fifteen

2:00

minute drive I spoke to investigative reporter

2:03

James Pilter, who did an incredibly deep

2:05

dive into Portsmouth into the larger picture

2:07

of what's happening in southeastern Ohio. Sportsmith,

2:10

which is in the next

2:12

county over on the river south of

2:14

Pike County and Piketon, is

2:16

known as ground zero for the pill mill

2:19

epidemic. That's where pill mills and the

2:21

opioid epidemic is known to

2:24

have had a major hotspot way early

2:26

on in the late nineteen

2:28

nineties early two thousands, when the oxycon first

2:31

hit the market. And tell me what a pill mill

2:33

is. A pill mill is where a

2:36

doctor who for

2:39

whatever reason isn't there to see

2:41

clients, somebody just shows

2:43

up and you just hands some prescription for money,

2:46

and then they get the prescription there and

2:48

then right next door is a pharmacy and

2:50

then they just put it in and then

2:52

those people get the pills because

2:55

it's legal in that state. They might drive them home

2:57

to Florida and then sell them for ten times

2:59

the price or trade them or whatever.

3:02

But it was unregulated in Ohio at

3:04

the time, and Kentucky

3:07

was bad too. Kentucky had the

3:09

same issues. So right there enforcements right

3:11

there on the Ohio River bordering Kentucky,

3:14

so you had both sides of the river. So

3:16

there were cars lined up from Florida

3:19

and West Virginia and Georgia

3:22

up and down all over town for

3:25

a decade, and it just ravaged

3:27

the city, which had already been

3:30

decimated by, you

3:32

know, the pullout of industrialization, and

3:35

so all of that kind of flooded in.

3:37

You have all of these, you

3:39

know, an economically depressed area.

3:42

All of a sudden, addiction becomes a major major

3:44

issue. People are driving from all over the country

3:46

because it's easy to get the pills there. And then

3:48

of course there's also the people who get into kind of the illicit

3:51

activities to make money, right, absolutely,

3:54

absolutely, a cottage industry

3:56

of crime and

3:59

drug associated crime kind of sprung

4:01

up, and you

4:04

know, started to do my own reporting

4:06

on it. So one of our editors

4:08

worked as the managing editor of the Portsmouth

4:11

Daily Times, which is the daily newspaper

4:13

there. He in the early twenty ten,

4:16

and so he was very familiar with

4:19

the rumors that had been circulating around

4:21

about Michael Moran. Moran

4:23

had already been a city councilman, but he wasn't

4:25

on city council anymore, but he

4:27

was still well known within the

4:30

legal circles and chamber of commerce,

4:32

and he did some work pro bono work for

4:35

about legal defense, but

4:38

he always seemed to have a pretty girl in his army. In

4:41

December of twenty eighteen,

4:44

a now former reporter with that newspaper

4:47

put out on Facebook segments

4:50

of a federal affidavit from

4:52

the Drug Enforcement Administration, which

4:55

basically laid there and put out

4:57

for public viewing that the federal

4:59

lawaw enforcement was investigating

5:03

the very same rumors that have been following Moran around

5:05

for years, that he was running girls and running drugs,

5:08

and that this was who he was. It's

5:15

important to note that Michael Moran has not

5:17

been arrested or charged with any crimes. Also

5:20

that Moran has categorically denied all

5:22

of this. My editor at the time, and I was

5:24

working as an investigative reporter at the Cincinnati

5:26

Enquirer, said would James be interested to taking a

5:28

look at this? And I'll be honest,

5:30

I thought I didn't think it was real. At first. I

5:32

thought there was no way that this is as bad as

5:35

they say it is and whatever. So I took a drive

5:37

out there. The partnered me with a

5:40

woman photographer whom

5:42

we went out there a couple of times, and I'll

5:44

never forget it. We were doing

5:46

some b roll shoot shots in front of a

5:49

pseudo abandoned shoe factory with

5:51

graffiti about hookers and things like

5:53

that, and a guy comes running up and says, what are you doing?

5:57

And I told him and I said, by

5:59

the way, you ever heard of Michael Moran. He says, oh, yeah, that guy

6:01

runs women. So this

6:05

was not a secret in Portsmouth. Everybody

6:08

knew the rumors and had known

6:11

somebody that knew somebody that had worked for

6:13

him. It was going on that

6:15

he was running women all over the country. He

6:18

was promising women drugs for sex.

6:20

He had relationships with judges

6:23

and with members of law enforcement, all of

6:25

it. So you

6:28

know, all of this is in the federal

6:30

document about it's human trafficking, right,

6:33

yes, So so you

6:35

know, some people this is an interesting distinction.

6:38

Some people will say, oh, well, these women knew

6:40

what they were doing, they were just trying to make money. Well,

6:43

if you talk to the experts, it went

6:45

one step beyond that. It went into

6:47

trafficking because Moran was holding

6:49

over them a the fact

6:51

that they were drug addicts, and he would withhold their

6:54

money or withhold their or wherewithal

6:56

to get drugs, which under

6:58

federal statute and Ohio statute

7:01

is a form of trafficking B. He

7:04

was intensively promising

7:08

more lenient sentences because he had friends

7:10

in the legal system. I'd

7:12

like to point out here that we reached out to Michael Moran

7:14

as well as the prosecutors involved. Neither

7:17

side got back to us with comment. So

7:20

I talked to some folks, but getting

7:22

those first initial people to talk, that

7:24

was their big fear, is they these women

7:27

just weren't afraid to go to jail. They were afraid for their lives.

7:29

And the reason they were afraid for their lives is the

7:32

name of one woman, and that's Megan Lancaster.

7:35

Meghan was a known prostitute in the late

7:37

two thousands in Sciotra County.

7:40

If you talk to her sister in law and

7:42

you talk to other people who knew her, she

7:44

worked for Mike Moran. Meghan

7:47

got hooked on drugs early on

7:49

in high school. Shortly out after high

7:51

school. If you talk to her sister in law, who

7:54

has led the charge, he

7:57

started partying later in high

7:59

school and out of high school, and

8:01

that led her into, according

8:05

to our sources, into the

8:07

circle of Morane. So Moran

8:09

would hire her out for bachelor

8:12

parties, and you

8:15

know Katie Lancaster, her sister in law,

8:17

even tells the story about her running into Megan

8:20

wearing Christmas lingerie in

8:22

a Walmart picking something up on

8:24

her way to a Christmas party

8:26

where she was the entertainment for a

8:28

bunch of Moran's friends, and

8:31

she mysteriously disappeared, so we

8:33

can't even say she was murdered. Her

8:37

car was found with blood on it, the door was left

8:39

wide open, half parked in

8:42

a local fast food joint there in downtown

8:44

Portsmouth, and

8:47

they have not found hide nor hair of her.

8:50

And I can tell you there are a

8:52

lot of places in Sciota County where you

8:54

can hide a body. It's full

8:56

of hollers and dips

8:57

and forests, and

9:00

it's wild country. It

9:02

really is wild country. The glaciers

9:04

came through and cut a bunch of stuff, and

9:07

it's it's beautiful,

9:10

but it's also wild country. And

9:13

a slew of women went

9:16

missing or got killed that were

9:18

addicted prostitutes, sex

9:22

workers up in Ross County,

9:24

in Chilcoffee, which is two counties to

9:26

the north. Since twenty ten, more

9:29

than a dozen women have either been killed

9:31

or gone missing in Ross County, which is

9:33

the county north of Pike County, which is

9:35

probably an hour forty five minutes

9:37

north of piked In in

9:39

Chilicothee. So Meghan,

9:43

a lot of people theorized that Meghan might have

9:45

been wrapped up in something that got those women

9:47

killed. But there's

9:49

a lot of thought and there's a lot of theory

9:52

or rumor that now that that was

9:54

separate from what happened to her, and what happened

9:56

to her points back to possibly

9:59

Michael Marine that he would want

10:01

to silence her for some reason. Yeah,

10:03

these are powerful men taking

10:05

advantage of addicted, unempowered

10:09

women. And

10:11

so how would you say, like Michael Moran in

10:13

tying this back to the road in case Michael

10:15

Moran and the situation in Portsmouth, I

10:18

think just speaks to this community,

10:21

which I think includes piked In as

10:24

people. You know, these men in power are kind

10:26

of doing what they want. And you know, when you look at

10:28

Sheriff Reader, who handled the investigation

10:30

for the road and murder, he was also doing

10:32

what he wanted. You know, now he's indicted on all these charges

10:34

of you know, theft from

10:36

the county. Yeah, and so you

10:39

know, you can the parallel

10:42

if you're wanting to make a parallel to the road. In cases,

10:44

absolutely either a you had

10:46

ineffectual or corrupt or

10:49

both law enforcements, right

10:52

you had a community or

10:54

a culture of lawlessness

10:57

that has descended on upon many

11:00

in rural America. I will

11:02

also say there's a major issue in small

11:04

town America with the quality

11:07

and quantity of law enforcement

11:10

that happens there and the lack of accountability.

11:12

Because nobody's watching, you

11:20

might be wondering how the crimes in Portsmith

11:22

fit into the Road and Family case. While

11:25

we probably know that Michael Moran and

11:27

what's happening in Portsmouth is not directly related

11:29

to the Road and murders, it does speak

11:31

to the distrust and lack of accountability

11:34

in law enforcement. It's this idea that all

11:36

these men in power, from judges to attorneys

11:38

are involved in these crimes and their cover ups.

11:40

It raises a pretty unnerving question, who

11:43

do you trust if you can't trust elected officials

11:45

and law enforcement. Furthermore, this influx

11:48

of drugs and lack of accountability from law

11:50

enforcement and the haphazard way

11:52

piked and authorities tried to recover some seemingly

11:54

very important evidence is basically exactly

11:56

what reporter James Pilcher outlined so

11:59

well in his work. Yeah, it seems really

12:01

systemic in the area and specifically too

12:03

piked in and that impacts

12:06

everything from the top down. Let's

12:13

stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be back

12:15

in a moment. Mike

12:26

Land from Hoboken, New Jersey, asked if

12:28

there were any other personal stories we'd heard

12:31

from people along the way that hadn't made it

12:33

into the podcast, and here

12:35

are a few that stand out to us. The relationship

12:37

between Frederica Wagner and Angela

12:39

Wagner, her daughter in law, has been the

12:41

basis of a lot of conversation that it was

12:44

a troubled relationship and that Angela

12:46

and her husband were vicious fighters.

12:49

And we even have heard from

12:51

a very close source that Angela

12:54

would actually have to put a little sedative

12:56

in Billy Wagner's shakes every day because

12:58

that would lower his temper and that's how she would

13:01

survive the day. It just paints a picture,

13:03

whether this is true or not. Here

13:05

Angela enters the Wagner family. She's

13:07

feuding with her now mother in law, the

13:10

matriarch of the family, Frederica, her

13:12

husband I don't know how tall he actually

13:14

is, but he's a tall presence

13:17

of a man, and you

13:19

know, allegedly hot tempered. So

13:22

Angela is trying to survive

13:24

this new dynamic homeschooling her boys

13:27

and sedating her husband

13:29

and feuding with her mother in law. It

13:32

just paints a very complicated picture,

13:34

it does. And because I can be pedantic

13:37

of allegedly drugging, but

13:41

other stuff we did here because I spoke to

13:43

the same person who was

13:46

a family member, it was someone

13:48

who was a family They were there. This is apparently

13:50

first hand account correct. And

13:52

part of that which I thought also painted

13:55

such an interesting picture was, like

13:57

you said, the Wagners were known

14:00

really widely to have get

14:02

into it with the fights. And what

14:04

this source said to us was

14:06

that she was at the family home, at

14:08

the Wagner family home, and she commented

14:11

that Angela had very many

14:13

decorative baskets all over and she said

14:15

those are very beautiful. And Angela

14:18

allegedly said, well, every

14:20

time we get into a fight and Billy

14:22

needs to apologize, he buys me another

14:25

basket because I like him. And so just

14:27

picturing this house filled with decorative

14:30

baskets, each one emblematic

14:32

of an argument, just an interesting

14:34

picture. Here's

14:40

our rich question and it comes from

14:43

Aaron from Malvern, New York,

14:45

and she asks how to

14:47

Sheriff Reader play into the

14:50

investigations and how mighty play into

14:52

the upcoming court trials.

14:55

He complicates this, I mean, he's

14:57

been accused of many things. In court documents

15:00

filed just last month, they alleged

15:02

Reader of misappropriating about fifteen

15:04

thousand dollars and SEES funds and

15:07

borrowing six thousand dollars from employees,

15:10

which can be seen as coercion. The

15:12

records also accuse him of

15:14

circumventing rules at auctions

15:17

to improperly get impounded vehicles

15:19

for his family so to his benefit. Additionally,

15:23

the court alleges that Reader on June

15:26

twenty seventeen, seized seven

15:28

thousand dollars that prosecutors

15:30

call quote possible proceeds of drug

15:32

trafficking. So these are charges

15:35

that have gone for several years,

15:38

and there's even new allegations that

15:40

charge him and engaging in a pattern of corrupt

15:42

activity, which is a first degree felony.

15:45

And prosecutors have long used the charge

15:47

as a way to attack organized crime figures and

15:49

major drug dealers by seeking long prison

15:52

sentences. So the fact that they're

15:54

using this against a sheriff is

15:56

interesting strategy. You know, the

15:58

issue is now that his character is

16:00

being called into question, and according

16:02

to sources we've talked to, the

16:05

criminal justice experts agree that if

16:07

Reader is found of any wrongdoing, it

16:09

could pose obstacles for the prosecution

16:13

in the trials against the Wagners. You know,

16:15

Reader was the frontman of

16:18

making everybody feel at ease that the investigation

16:20

was being handled, but frankly was

16:23

kind of doing a message job from

16:25

the jump. Yeah. I mean, in theory, you could look

16:27

at every single case Sheriff Reader

16:30

took the lead on and wonder

16:32

what he was doing behind the scenes in

16:34

order to make an arrest, which would include the

16:36

rodent investigation. On the other

16:39

side of that, though, you

16:41

know, what experts are saying is that the prosecution might

16:43

argue to the judge on the case

16:46

that Reader's criminal history isn't relevant to

16:48

the Wagner trials and thus shouldn't be heard

16:50

by a jury, and they'll do that

16:52

by downplaying his role in the investigation.

16:55

And if that becomes the case, then it won't necessarily

16:58

be a death blow to the state case.

17:01

Another expert was quoted as saying in the press,

17:03

officers are human beings like everybody

17:05

else, and so sometimes juries can weigh in on

17:07

that and decide what kind of credence they

17:10

want to give to his behavior. Shriff

17:12

Frieder also potentially jeopardized

17:14

the investigation by having the Rodents cars

17:17

and mobile homes moved off site, which

17:19

Attorney Mike Allen an investigative reporter

17:21

Jodi Barr talked about in episode five. So

17:24

shriff Frieder's involvement is far

17:27

reaching and it has the potential to

17:30

effect in multiple ways, not only during

17:32

the investigation but moving forward with

17:34

the trials. Yeah, there was something else

17:36

early on in the investigation that

17:38

happened that really did cause a stir and that's

17:41

the road in autopsy reports, And for

17:43

some reason these were held up in being released

17:45

to the media outlets, which is something that happens

17:47

occasionally in criminal cases, but it

17:50

garnered a lot of attention specifically with

17:52

the road in case. Probably the reason

17:54

why is oftentimes autopsies

17:57

are not released to the public because

17:59

there might be a hell or something

18:01

very significant in those autopsy

18:03

reports. For example, this is just top of

18:06

head, not related to the Wagner

18:08

or roding case at all, If somebody had a

18:10

certain tattoo marking or had

18:13

been cut in a certain way that only

18:15

the perpetrator slash killer

18:17

would know, then authorities

18:19

don't want that information to be wildly

18:21

known because it's something that would

18:24

be helpful to know if there was a confession,

18:26

for example, So if somebody confessed,

18:29

they would know that information. So that is not

18:31

entirely uncommon, although

18:33

in this case it seems that was not the

18:35

reason why. Yeah, it's speculated

18:38

that it's not the reason why. And this is this

18:40

one actually all the way up to the Ohio

18:43

Supreme Court. Two outlets, the

18:45

Columbus Dispatch and the Cincinnati Inquirer,

18:47

sued the state for the right to the autopsies.

18:50

The suit was filed against the Pike County Coroner,

18:53

David Kessler, and that came after the Dispatch

18:55

was denied three separate times officially

18:58

asking for the final autops reports.

19:00

And what the Dispatch's claim was was

19:03

that the final autopsy reports are of

19:05

great public interest and quote significant

19:07

value to the Dispatch and our

19:10

news gathering activities. The authorities

19:12

really were apprehensive to release the autopsy

19:14

information, arguing that the release could hinder

19:17

the investigation. I wonder, just to

19:19

harp on this a little longer, like what

19:22

was the city, like what was Pike County really trying

19:24

to protect? You know? Four times? Three

19:26

times seems like a lot of times to

19:28

continue to fight the release of this and

19:31

now that we know what they say, like

19:33

what in there was so damning to

19:35

the investigation? You know,

19:38

it just like seems like a lot. Well. I actually

19:40

spoke with attorney Jack Grenier, and

19:43

he was one of the lawyers who filed the

19:45

suit on behalf of the dispatch, and

19:47

he had some really compelling thoughts. You

19:49

have to kind of wonder, in light

19:51

of the trouble that the sheriff ultimately

19:54

got into, what was motivating the desire

19:56

to keep things kind of quiet,

19:58

Because is a

20:01

pretty good example of,

20:03

in my view, law

20:06

enforcement overreacting.

20:08

And I say that kind

20:10

of cautiously because you

20:12

know, it's say it was multiple murders

20:14

in a gruesome situation. But

20:17

I think the idea of you

20:20

know, you just have to withhold

20:23

as much information as you possibly can

20:25

from the public, and even maybe more

20:28

information than you're allowed to

20:30

withhold, is to me an

20:33

overreaction. And I think we

20:35

saw that in this case, you

20:37

know that somehow, you know, if any

20:39

piece of information got out there, it would somehow

20:42

derail the whole investigation. I

20:44

just I just don't buy into that. The

20:50

Inquirer really argued that it was

20:52

in the public's best interest to know

20:54

what the autopsy said and to review. I mean,

20:56

at what we learned from the autopsies is pretty important

20:59

in terms of what happened to the rodents. We

21:01

learned how many times they were shot, where they were

21:03

shot, which really did speak to how personal

21:06

the crimes were. Some of these family members were

21:08

shot multiple times in the face with a shotgun,

21:10

and so if this was a drug cartel hit, you

21:13

know, it wasn't once and quick.

21:15

It was personal and it was an overkill, which

21:17

is what we learned from the autopsies. Once these autopsies

21:20

would be released, here we go again, more

21:22

questions with few answers, and

21:25

sure enough, that's exactly what happened. Thankfully

21:27

we have this information and we could actually really

21:30

look at these autopsy reports in great detail,

21:32

and I can speak for myself saying it was

21:35

really dark

21:37

and twisted. When you really do

21:39

see just how much, to your point,

21:41

Chef, of an overkill, this really was.

21:44

Yeah, it made me think like what releasing this autopsy

21:46

would do to the town of piked In and speaking to

21:48

a fair amount of the residents and just the feeling

21:50

of uncertainty. I don't

21:52

know how it would if it was a good thing or

21:54

a bad thing, because the people in piked In were thinking

21:56

it was a drug cartel who did this prior

21:59

to the autops release, and that

22:02

created a sense of fear. But then I think after the

22:04

autopsies were released, people started circling in on

22:06

the Wagners and really thinking they did it,

22:08

which created a whole other set of problems

22:11

in terms of this kind of small town

22:13

justice that the Wagner's faced, whether

22:15

they deserve it or not, creates

22:18

a whole new problem for the sheriff's office.

22:26

Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll

22:28

be back in a moment. So

22:39

we were talking about the informant, which we've covered

22:41

in the past, but I know there's been some other

22:44

questions out there. Yeah, so Woody

22:46

from Comack, New York asked us on social

22:49

media about the likelihood that the

22:51

informant is in fact one of the Wagner

22:53

For I'm obsessed with understanding

22:55

more about the informant personally, so you definitely

22:58

think it must be a family member. Who must

23:01

is a strong statement. I think

23:03

the likelihood, I think it seems likely

23:05

only because if this family

23:08

allegedly did commit this careful,

23:10

careful, planned out murders that they spent months

23:13

planning, why would they then be so careless

23:16

and have someone else involved

23:19

enough with the information that they

23:21

could turn state's evidence. So

23:24

to me, it says that if they kept it all within

23:27

the family, then necessarily it would

23:29

have to be someone in the family. It's

23:31

unknowable at this point, but that's what makes sense

23:33

to me. Is it possible that it's Rita

23:36

Angela Wagner's mother because she would have maybe

23:38

been witnessed of some of these conversations. I

23:41

mean, it's possible that it's any of them, assuming

23:43

it's one of the four. Let's just play this out for a second.

23:46

If Courtney, if you're correct, and it's one of the

23:48

four of the Wagners that

23:50

are the accused. To me, if one of them

23:53

was going to fold, George, the

23:55

eldest son, seems the most likely,

23:58

And for that I say, simply because

24:00

he had the least amount of skin in the game. If

24:02

he wasn't fighting for his niece solely,

24:05

you know, he wasn't, you know, maybe supercharged

24:07

by love the way Jake was. He wasn't

24:10

supercharged about protecting

24:12

his children the way Angela maybe was about

24:15

her son Jake and her granddaughter. We

24:17

know the dads potentially had some sort of

24:19

a confrontation leading up that could

24:22

be you know, charged by emotion.

24:24

But that said, he turns

24:27

now he's the one asking for solitary confinement

24:30

in a bible. The fact that they

24:32

were trying to get George Wagner off

24:34

on bail very recently, that would

24:37

speak to this as well. That

24:39

A, he's the informant b just

24:42

through the basic ways that you

24:44

would be released from prison on bail. They

24:46

made that attempt. It was unsuccessful

24:48

on the behalf of the defense, but that is

24:50

interesting strategy. By

24:53

the way, how shocking would this be if George

24:55

Wagner, the eldest son, had

24:57

to actually appear in court and testify against

25:00

his mother and his father

25:02

and his younger brother Jake. That

25:05

would be shocking. So while it is

25:07

all speculation, it is all possible,

25:09

and several reputable sources have said

25:11

it's not the most unlikely thing. Just

25:14

as a legal reminder, Angela, Billy

25:16

Jake, and George Wagner were charged with aggravated

25:19

murder. Angela Wagner's mother Rita,

25:21

Joe Nukom and Billy Wagner's mother Frederica

25:24

were both charged with obstruction of justice

25:26

and perjury. Nucomb was also charged

25:28

with forgery. All six of them pled

25:31

not guilty, and our justice system presumes

25:33

innocence until guilt is proven. Jodi

25:41

Barr, who we heard from throughout the course of

25:43

this podcast, has summed up pretty well

25:45

how the three of us feel about this case. Soby

25:48

this is a case that I think about it.

25:50

I'm pretty sure every day, and

25:52

you know again that's why I'm very eager to

25:54

hear from

25:57

you. I just want to see this trial.

26:00

I want to know more about

26:02

what happened here and if they really do

26:04

have the right people. Sounds like they do.

26:06

I mean, these indictments are very linked in very detail,

26:09

but that's only one side of this. I

26:11

want to hear from the Wagoners and see if

26:13

they have an explanation because at the end

26:15

of the day, when the last

26:17

trial is held and the last

26:20

jury, if it gets to that point, you know, I

26:22

would hope that the Rodent family can

26:24

walk out of that courtroom and know for sure

26:26

that the people who did this are

26:28

the people who go to prison for it.

26:32

I can't think of a better way to hand

26:35

down justice. We've

26:40

talked about this a lot, and people ask us, you

26:43

know why we work in

26:45

crime investigations in general, and

26:47

I think their truth is victims

26:50

have a voice even after

26:52

death, and for us,

26:55

we really do want to

26:57

share our deepest sympathy with the Rodent

26:59

family. I

27:03

think the point of this podcast is to really angle towards

27:05

shining a light on the injustices that the

27:07

Rodent family faced and help

27:09

bring a sense of closure and answers

27:11

to the surviving Rodin family. Well.

27:14

I think also when the Wagners finally

27:16

do have their day in court, our hope is

27:18

that the Rodents finally see

27:20

justice.

27:37

Piked In Massacre is executive produced by

27:39

Stephanie Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong.

27:42

Editing and sound design by executive producer

27:45

Jared Aston. Additional producing

27:47

by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The

27:49

piked In Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio

27:52

and KAT Studios. For more podcasts

27:54

from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio

27:56

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

27:58

listen to your favorite shows. Please

28:08

welcome mar Fite County dogin Festival. Queen

28:12

Lord, I just thank you for bringing us all

28:14

together as a community,

28:18

okay, all over

28:22

the house. Who could have killed

28:24

eight family members in one night?

28:27

I lost my best friends and

28:29

I will never be the same because of

28:31

that day. Four crime

28:34

scenes, no DNA, no witnesses.

28:36

The killer left those children laying

28:40

in their mother's blood. The

28:42

word that comes to mind is overkilled.

28:44

Who was the mastermind? I'm

28:47

telling you is a I'm

28:50

not fitting in prison. One thing

28:52

I learned, the smaller

28:55

the town, the baker the

28:57

sacreds. Be

28:59

sure to watch our upcoming documentary,

29:02

The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,

29:04

premiering on NBC Universal's

29:06

Oxygen Network and also streaming

29:09

on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day

29:11

weekend November twenty fourth and

29:13

November twenty fifth. Please check your local

29:15

listings and our hearts are with the Rodents

29:18

and the Gilly families.