0:00

If we didn't encourage that,

0:02

if we didn't dive into that area,

0:05

then we would always stay who we were.

0:14

Hi, I'm Emily Bonny, the CEO of the Investment Bank Institute.

0:18

And you are listening to the Hurdle Rate podcast.

0:22

The Hurdle Rate podcast is an opportunity to engage in important and enlightening conversations with women in finance and business.

0:31

This podcast aims to elevate and empower women in the space,

0:35

bringing voice to the stories behind their successes in this episode.

0:40

We're going to be discussing the power of discomfort.

0:44

I would imagine not an unfamiliar feeling for many of us as we navigate work life and home life or perhaps even balancing the two.

0:54

I'm delighted to welcome Christina Ramirez to the show.

0:57

Thanks for joining me in this conversation.

0:59

Christina. Thank you for having me.

1:01

I'm looking forward to it. Christina Ramirez is a serial entrepreneur,

1:06

bringing her empowerment curricula to audiences everywhere,

1:10

from Children to corporations.

1:12

Her programs have been implemented across 40 states and more than 10,000 individuals have benefited from her work,

1:20

a veteran of Wall Street and Silicon Valley.

1:22

Christina is skilled at challenging limitations and finding possibilities.

1:28

No stranger to significant difficulties.

1:30

Christina has made it her personal mission to empower others to face their challenges with confidence.

1:37

Christina is a best selling author,

1:39

a national snowboarding medallist and still the only one in her household who cleans the cat litter.

1:46

Well, Christina first, I'd love to hear about your story and how you got to where you are today.

1:53

Sure. So, um I think like,

1:55

like a lot of people, you know, my story is very winding.

1:59

So the truncated version of it is,

2:01

you know, I, I started my career on Wall Street and um and then I went to Silicon Valley and then I left the corporate world and I did nonprofit work and like many of us,

2:13

you know, when I'm a mom and when I had my boys,

2:16

they are 21 months apart. I wanted to be a stay at home mom and I wanted to be with them.

2:21

So I did that for a couple of years and then I realized I was like,

2:24

yeah, I, I mean, I love my kids but I need something more.

2:28

So I went back to work, I went into education and,

2:32

you know, eventually I realized that for me that,

2:35

you know, I wanted to have more flexibility.

2:39

And so I started my own business in,

2:42

when was it 2015? And I began teaching growth mindset to kids through running like in this after school program.

2:50

And then I grew that um and then I teach other moms how to start their businesses to teach growth mindset.

2:56

And then I it was successful.

2:59

And so I started teaching, you know, corporations how to lead their teams with a growth mindset.

3:04

And this growth mindset and this idea of,

3:08

you know, progress, not perfection. Um I've implemented in,

3:11

in lots of different scenarios. Christina,

3:14

I hear so much in your story and I'm certain that a lot of us can relate to that winding path and how motherhood or other things at home and sort of shift the dynamic,

3:24

shift your priorities and sort of navigating um what it feels like to balance all of those things.

3:32

You're speaking about using um the growth mindset through running my kids just this weekend,

3:37

took their first sort of running club excursion.

3:40

Um You know, there were some tears,

3:43

there were some tears, but uh some smiles and I do think sort of using different mechanisms um to sort of build that growth mindset to sort of get used to that feeling of discomfort,

3:55

you know, looking at my kids uh running a half a mile.

3:58

That that may be one way. But I'm certain there's all different ways that we experience in this,

4:03

in everyday life, not just with our kids,

4:05

but in our work. And you know, other scenarios at home.

4:09

And we're speaking of this, this power of discomfort and you are the author of empowered by discomfort,

4:14

face challenges with confidence using the 20% power principle of discomfort.

4:21

Let's talk about that for a little bit. Tell me the inspiration for that book.

4:24

Sure. So in December of 21 I lost my husband to cancer after a very like seven weeks,

4:33

you know, from diagnosis to his passing.

4:36

And when I process things through writing,

4:39

so I would share on Facebook or with my community,

4:43

my process of grieving because it ain't easy.

4:46

Let me tell you that. And um and what I realized,

4:50

you know, that I was using for myself,

4:53

the same tools that I have been teaching clients for years and in December of last year,

5:00

so it was almost a full year after Joe had died.

5:03

Um I've always wanted to write a book and I said,

5:06

you know what, like it's now or never.

5:08

And I literally, I sat down and the book just poured out of me because it's my story with everything that I've been teaching.

5:17

And within two months it was published and it was a best seller.

5:21

That is incredible Christina first.

5:23

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

5:26

Um But writing those words down and,

5:28

and sharing that with, with the world with us today.

5:33

Um What an incredible legacy and,

5:36

you know, using those, those principles that you had been teaching in your own life and then sort of solidifying them in this book.

5:42

And the book is really centered around the idea that discomfort is key to a happy future.

5:48

And I, I'm gonna repeat that discomfort is the key to a happy future.

5:52

Those things feel like they may be, you know,

5:55

at odds with each other, not really in sync with each other.

5:58

So, can you explain more about that? Absolutely.

6:01

So, you know, we as humans,

6:04

we have several basic human needs and the first one is for security and for safety and to know that we're gonna be ok,

6:10

but we all have a desire to grow as well.

6:14

And the only way in my view to grow is by leaving your comfort zone,

6:21

which will automatically mean that you're gonna be within the zone of discomfort,

6:26

right? So if we didn't encourage that,

6:29

if we didn't dive into that area,

6:33

then we would always stay who we were.

6:35

And that, you know, as much as we,

6:37

we say like, oh, I wish, you know, I could have a good jillion million dollars and sit by a beach drinking pina coladas all day.

6:44

You do that, you'll probably be bored,

6:47

you know, it's not like the. So, so you have that constant need to find something to evolve and to change.

6:54

And then at the same time, life is always going to be presenting you with challenges,

6:58

the challenges will look different over time,

7:00

but there will always be there. So when you lean into that discomfort,

7:06

when you lean into that challenge,

7:08

that is when you grow and when you grow,

7:11

that's really how you live a fulfilled life in the long,

7:15

long run, right. So that you're consistently being the best person that you can be.

7:20

And although this book is sort of set in a very specific context,

7:24

again, you know, the loss of your husband and,

7:27

um you know, being a caregiver to him. During that experience,

7:30

you do mention the idea of the different flavors of discomfort,

7:34

right? It discomfort pops, pops up for many of us in different ways.

7:39

Um, throughout any given day, perhaps,

7:42

you know, any given year or different experiences.

7:45

I, you know, this could be in our careers in the workplace.

7:48

It, it could be at home,

7:50

you know, personally, and I'm thinking of the idea of discomfort and sort of going back to what we were discussing,

7:57

sort of minds finding their path in careers,

8:00

doing that balancing act between work life and home life and the idea that we can have that discomfort with in our careers and that,

8:09

that tug and pool and especially women in male dominated professions you've experienced on Wall Street in Silicon Valley,

8:17

what advice would you give women who are trying to harness their own discomfort as a power rather than a hindrance?

8:25

Sure. That's a great question.

8:27

So I'm gonna take one step back and that you will have you already have discomfort in all areas of your life,

8:34

you know. And, um, and so that's why I say it's like a 20%.

8:39

I just made up them that it's not like there's a scientific backing,

8:43

it's not like reto law, right? But it's just this thought that in your life there's always going to be that piece of discomfort of something that maybe it's not at the level that you wish it would be.

8:53

And that happens in all areas of life,

8:56

relationship, parenting, work career,

8:58

all that kind of stuff. So, but at some times in our lives,

9:02

like one pops up and becomes more important or it's maybe because you're ready to deal with that.

9:08

So in the case of a mom who is going back to work or a woman who is in a male dominated business,

9:16

maybe that's the time the season of their life where that discomfort is like bing bing,

9:21

bing, bing bing. Right? And what I try to tell people is that like when you're feeling discomfort,

9:27

just imagine that it's like big huge glowing light signs saying like,

9:32

look at me, look at me, this is where you're gonna go next,

9:35

right? This is, this is the, this is what you have to handle right now.

9:39

And so that discomfort might change over time just in terms of like what's calling your attention.

9:46

So for women who are in that male dominated world,

9:50

like there's some women who,

9:52

they're just like, ok, whatever, right? It doesn't bother them or not that it doesn't bother them,

9:56

but it's not like it's not what's active right now in their discomfort.

10:00

But there's a lot of us, especially when we're first returning to work.

10:05

Um that, that is the big flashing sign.

10:09

And so instead of fearing it or instead of saying like,

10:13

oh my God, I have to blah, blah, blah.

10:16

It's like, ok, this is the season of my life.

10:19

This is like, I've, I've, you know, I've been a stay at home mom and I'm not,

10:22

I'm, this is for everybody in any case,

10:24

right? But I was this in the past and now I'm attempting this new thing and the discomfort that I'm feeling is just asking me to solve it within myself,

10:35

right? Figure this out for me so that I can grow and become the next version of myself.

10:41

So, whereas before I was a stay at home mom,

10:43

now this discomfort is gonna show me and help me figure out how to be a working mom without sacrificing my family or my business.

10:52

Does that make sense? It does make sense.

10:54

What I'm hearing is sort of that discomfort,

10:59

you know, and let's use this example of returning to work after a career break.

11:03

That discomfort seems like would breed almost an insecurity,

11:08

a lack of confidence, but rather using it as almost a signal,

11:11

as you said, sort of a beacon of light to build confidence to say this is the area where I should focus because it's,

11:19

it's making me feel some sort of way.

11:21

So let's let's put energy into it rather than running 100% I could not have said it better.

11:28

And when you look at it that way,

11:31

you know, for me, confidence comes from doing challenging things,

11:35

right? Like you don't and, and that's why with the kids,

11:38

like, and, and in my programs, like we don't give participation trophies,

11:42

we will give you a t-shirt because you're cute.

11:45

But the medal you've got to earn it. And sometimes there are tears and sometimes it is hard.

11:50

But it is because they go through the challenge that then that metal means something to them.

11:56

And then when they get it and they feel so proud of themselves and they're like,

12:00

oh my God, I can't believe I did that. That's the confidence,

12:04

right? But that confidence wouldn't be had they not struggled.

12:07

And it's the same thing with us in,

12:10

in the workforce is like, if, if there's a discomfort,

12:13

if something is like, mm you know, and you pay attention to it and you deal with it and you come to the other side of it,

12:20

that's how you build confidence.

12:22

That's how you build resilience. You know,

12:25

if we don't address our discomfort and we stay in the status quo,

12:28

even though it's like, it's a little nagging feeling behind us,

12:31

then we aren't that, that, that, you know,

12:33

insecurity that we have when we first came back or when we first face,

12:36

that discomfort is never going to be fully solve.

12:39

So you're not gonna grow from it. That's really interesting.

12:42

And I'm thinking, you know, you, you did bring up sort of the kids running programs that you run and building the growth mindset.

12:49

And I mentioned um, that my kids did a first,

12:52

their first ever running club and my,

12:55

my four year old, it was her first time ever doing something like this and she was uncomfortable and she was standing at the starting line with,

13:02

with my husband crying and I was at the other end and you know,

13:06

that horn went off and she did run and she was running,

13:09

she was running, but I could see it in her face. The tears were coming.

13:11

She was just about at the finish line,

13:13

turned around and came running into my arms and you know,

13:17

that initial like, oh, I wish he would have finished.

13:20

I, I, I feel bad and as I sat with the experience throughout the day,

13:24

I thought, you know, that's, that's not what I had envisioned for her,

13:29

right? I, I envisioned her going across that line and like you said,

13:32

winning that medal and cheering. And, but then I,

13:35

I did think about the same thing that we're talking about that.

13:38

If she hadn't experienced that moment of discomfort,

13:41

how does she build that emotional fabric?

13:44

How does she experience that and learn how to overcome it?

13:48

And it's sometimes easy to see it in the context of,

13:52

you know, our Children. But then thinking back to ourselves,

13:56

right? If we don't allow ourselves to experience that discomfort and work through it,

14:00

are we really building the emotional fabric and tools that we need to,

14:04

to manage those, those situations?

14:06

And not only that, but then your life also doesn't grow because then you stay stuck,

14:11

right? Um Because then, then your status quo is gonna be your status quo.

14:16

And so life can like life is always changing and yes,

14:20

there's challenges, but it's also beautiful more than anything.

14:23

And all these things that you would be able to experience and grow from,

14:29

if you're not willing to be uncomfortable,

14:32

your life is like the life that you have around you right now.

14:35

That's it. Right. It's not gonna be bigger than that.

14:38

And I think most of us deep down want our lives to be as full as possible.

14:44

So you're kind of like shooting yourself in the foot if you're just trying to protect that discomfort,

14:49

you know, like if you're like, oh, no, no, no, no, I don't.

14:52

You know, that seems too hard or that's uncomfortable or that's gonna bring out pain.

14:56

Like usually the fear of the thing is way bigger than whatever the issue is first.

15:02

So you have to get passed through that emotion to get there so that you can see it's like,

15:07

ok, I can handle this and then your life will grow and speaking of,

15:12

you know, wanting full lives,

15:15

it kind of brings me back to the sort of balance between home life and work life.

15:20

And that could be for, you know,

15:22

somebody who is a caregiver,

15:25

a parent, but so many other things that are important in our lives that are,

15:30

you know, quote unquote at home or personal and balancing that with who we are at work and in our careers.

15:36

And I feel like for women,

15:38

especially that does cause a fair amount of discomfort and a sort of a tug and pull and a questioning and,

15:46

and not necessarily exclusively for women,

15:49

but it seems so often that that could be the case for us.

15:53

How do we start to examine that feeling and,

15:57

and recognize its potential. First,

15:59

I think is understanding that that feeling is not something that's gonna be solved,

16:04

right? It's not like there's a destination that says,

16:06

OK, now I have the perfect work life balance because as soon as that happened,

16:11

you'll get a promotion or you'll have a kid or whatever,

16:14

right? It's always going to be changing. So I think like this illusion that we're going to get there is um is detrimental to us.

16:22

My frame of life is that that's what brings it joy.

16:26

The pursuit of trying to figure it out is,

16:30

but almost more important than the figuring it out.

16:33

You're in the pursuit of this balance.

16:35

Um or knowing that it can always be better,

16:38

that's where the empowerment comes in and that's actually where the joy is.

16:44

But we keep telling ourselves that the joy will be when I,

16:48

so I actually talk about this in the book because it used to drive me bananas if somebody would tell me is like,

16:55

oh, the joy is in the journey and I'm like,

16:57

forget that. Like, I wanna get, I wanna to Hawaii,

17:00

like I wanna get somewhere, you know.

17:02

Um But what I realized is that,

17:05

that it's, it's very true. Not because you don't achieve anything,

17:09

but it's because the goalposts keep moving and I talk about that in my book.

17:13

So for example, I have a mom and she comes to me,

17:16

you know, the first and she's like, ok, I want to start a business and I want my business to make $5000 a month,

17:22

right? Just to give you a number. And I'm like,

17:25

ok, great. And we help her and she's at $4000 a month.

17:29

And it's like, wow, I can't believe I'm making four grand.

17:31

Like if I can make four, I can make five.

17:34

Why not seven? I mean, can you help me get seven?

17:36

That would be so cool. Oh my God. It would be so life changing. Can you imagine me?

17:40

Seven grand, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So now she's like at six and she realizes,

17:45

oh my gosh, I can make seven. Can you imagine if I start a business that's like a six bigger business?

17:51

And now I'm making, you know, 8.8 K a month.

17:54

Oh my God. That would be incredible.

17:57

And she is not that she never gets there.

18:01

It's just the goal posts keep changing.

18:04

But what happens is when you go and your goals start getting bigger,

18:08

the challenges are bigger too. And like in her case,

18:11

you know, a six bigger business might mean that you have to hire a team or there's taxes or things that she doesn't know how to do.

18:18

And so she struggles a little bit more and like,

18:20

oh my God, I'm such a failure. Like why does it like,

18:23

why am I always struggling? Why is it always so difficult?

18:26

Yada, yada, yada yada. But the whole time she completely forgot that her goal was five,

18:32

right? And now here she's at eight thinking that she's,

18:36

you know, struggles more than most or that life is difficult and it's,

18:39

it's not that it's just, you know,

18:41

now her goals are bigger. So if you stop for every little milestone and pat yourself on the back,

18:48

it's like, man, I did that, man, I did that,

18:51

man. I did that, then you're recognizing the journey and that will really,

18:56

really alleviate that pressure of,

18:58

you know, when I get there because you realize you're not going to get there because the goal not because there doesn't exist,

19:05

but because you're gonna keep wanting more and more as you should.

19:10

Because the there, if that was the end point,

19:12

there would be no growth, right? No evolution that we've talked about.

19:16

Um, and I'm thinking of that, that mom,

19:20

you know, if she was standing in the,

19:22

that month where she made $5000 and somebody told her in only a few months or a year or whatever the timeline was,

19:28

she's gonna be making $8000 a month,

19:31

that person would be elated.

19:33

And it's funny looking back that,

19:36

you know, you feel like I haven't quite hit it yet,

19:39

but you're well beyond, you know,

19:41

that original goal and taking that moment to sort of pat yourself on the back for meeting that original goal and allowing yourself to grow with it,

19:50

to move with it to, to have those things change and evolve as you change and evolve.

19:56

Um It's, it's hard to look back and pat yourself when you're sort of still in the mix of things.

20:01

Right. Right. So that, so that's why you have to pat yourself all the time because nobody else is gonna do it for you.

20:07

Yes, I, I definitely agree with that,

20:09

but it, it's difficult but it's not like why is it difficult for you to celebrate that you did something?

20:16

Well, if it's still feels uncomfortable,

20:20

you're thinking you haven't achieved it.

20:22

And, you know, this whole conversation is about sort of using the discomfort,

20:27

allowing the discomfort and not looking at it as a negative,

20:30

but it's that shift in mindset.

20:33

That discomfort won't cloud that patting yourself on the back that you have reached goals or you've done things,

20:40

maybe you set one goal and a different goal happens that you didn't even anticipate.

20:44

And that's, that's equally as important until you sort of accept that the chaos or the discomfort is,

20:52

is part of that story and not separate from that story.

20:55

I think it is hard to, to pat yourself on the back.

20:57

Yeah. So here's what I um what I would say to that,

21:00

you know, like, so imagine you have a cup and your cup is 80% full of water and there's 20% that's not.

21:07

And so that part that's not filled with water is your discomfort if you solve a problem,

21:14

right? Or if you, that la the, the client that made it to five K,

21:18

like it doesn't mean that now she's going to be 10% discomfort and 90% comfortable.

21:26

It just means that now her container is bigger,

21:29

the size of the cup is bigger.

21:31

So the discomfort is always going to be there.

21:33

In fact, there's more of it because your life is fuller.

21:36

So, you know, when you're young and single maybe,

21:39

or like in your high school years, maybe your challenge or your discomfort is that you didn't make the volleyball team or the running team,

21:46

whatever. Um But now as an adult and as a mom,

21:50

your discomfort is that your child didn't make it,

21:52

plus you have to cook center, plus work,

21:55

plus the mortgage, plus whatever. So life is gonna keep getting bigger.

22:00

So it really is just about, it's a decision to look at your path and to set like these little goals and these little markers and tell yourself it's like I'm on the way,

22:12

the discomfort is never going to leave.

22:14

So if we just accept it, that's exactly how you empower yourself by patting yourself on the back by saying like,

22:20

wow, I handled it. I'm ready for the next thing as you describe that,

22:25

that cup of water and you think about that,

22:28

that 20% that the 20% may always be there.

22:32

It's just a shifting 20% what that 20% may look like.

22:36

But the idea of getting rid of it is,

22:40

you know, not practical isn't truthful.

22:42

So, like you said, trying to get it down to 10,

22:45

ok? If I hit this, I'll have less that allowing that 20% to exist and whatever is in that 20% sort of shifts.

22:54

And you know, going back to the top of the conversation that that's where you build creativity,

22:59

solutions to problems, new skills and you continue to grow as we're,

23:05

we're talking about this cup. That to me,

23:07

that was a practical exercise in wrapping my head around around what the discomfort and using discomfort looks like.

23:14

But do you have AAA practical exercise that,

23:19

you know, leaving this podcast? Today somebody could,

23:22

could use in their sort of everyday life at work or at home that's,

23:27

that can help them start to manage and utilize their discomfort.

23:33

For me. I go back to the basics and it's,

23:36

you know, you, unless you have an awareness of something you can't change it.

23:40

So you are either aware and in leading your life or you are just,

23:47

you know, a little boat on the ocean and if the wind goes to the right,

23:50

you go to Hawaii. If it goes to the left, you go,

23:53

I don't know, you know, somewhere else.

23:55

Um So I think the first thing is to identify and come to terms with like,

24:01

ok, so in these areas of my life,

24:05

we usually divide them. I think they're like seven areas.

24:07

So relationships, parenting, career and work,

24:10

recreation, different areas of your life,

24:12

look at them and just rate them from 1 to 10.

24:16

Where are they understanding that you're never going to have all of them?

24:20

Be a 10 together? That,

24:23

that's just not the way it works once you identify.

24:26

Ok, this is the area of my life that right now is causing me the most discomfort.

24:31

It doesn't mean that you don't have discomfort in other areas.

24:34

But this is the area that in this season of my life I want to pay attention to.

24:39

That's the first step, right? Like narrow it down.

24:42

You don't go to a restaurant where there's a buffet and put everything on your plate on the first round.

24:48

Of course, you get the appetizers and you eat it,

24:50

then you go back and make plates and you eat it.

24:52

So don't try to tackle everything at once.

24:55

Just understand that there's discomfort everywhere.

24:57

What is really tugging at you right now,

25:01

be aware of it and then say,

25:03

ok, so if this is my discomfort,

25:06

let's say it's in, you know, career since we're,

25:09

we're talking about this. Um And that's,

25:12

that's the area that's really causing you a lot of trouble or it's really que you know,

25:17

you're questioning yourself or you're not very confident,

25:20

then what is the opposite?

25:22

What is it that you want? Because a lot of us are really good at identifying the problem,

25:27

but we're really vague about what do we want instead.

25:31

So let's say that right now your discomfort is that you are,

25:35

you know, you're returning to work, it's the first time you're really uncomfortable when you're at home.

25:39

You're thinking at work, when you're at work, you're thinking of the kids.

25:43

So you have to think about, ok, so what is it that I want?

25:45

I want to be able to at home,

25:49

focus at home and be present at home and at work,

25:51

be present at work? Great.

25:54

And then you can think about,

25:56

well, what strategies can I adopt to tackle this discomfort and just leave yourself open to whatever that will look like?

26:05

So maybe it's like, ok for me to be at home and be present at home.

26:09

But how can I do that if I have to do laundry and I have to clean the bathroom and blah,

26:12

blah, blah. So maybe the solution for you is to just hire somebody to do those things for you.

26:17

You're getting solutions based on your discomfort.

26:22

But that, but you know what you want instead,

26:24

does that make sense? And if you say it's like,

26:27

well, but you know, I don't have money to hire help at my house.

26:30

So it's like, well, then make your kids part of the house thing,

26:33

you know, like make it a game, bring them into you.

26:36

But once you know what you want from,

26:39

you know, the, the, the turning that discomfort into a goal,

26:43

then you will be able to find strategies and solutions.

26:47

I love a good action item. And to me this is so practical and action oriented,

26:52

you know, sort of taking stock of those areas of your life,

26:55

ranking them, you know, 1 to 10.

26:57

And that signal, that discomfort signal will appear in those rankings.

27:02

And, oh, this is the area that is feeling the most discomfort right now.

27:07

And what should I be paying attention to here?

27:11

What do I want it to look like? And now what are strategies I can use real strategies that will help me get to that point and alleviate some of that discomfort.

27:23

It's almost those, those number rankings.

27:25

I like a good number. Um, help that signal appear because I would imagine some of us sitting here may think.

27:32

Well, I'm feeling discomfort all over the place or maybe I don't think I am may,

27:37

you know, and then sort of being able to assign a number could really help sift through some of some of the noise.

27:43

And that's the thing. They will not be a 10,

27:46

You know, like there, there,

27:49

there's always going maybe you're a 10 in one area of your life,

27:52

but that will change life ebbs and flows.

27:54

So instead of trying to control the process,

27:57

instead of trying to like, ok, I'll be happy when this is a 10.

28:01

It just be like, OK, right now in this season of my life,

28:03

this is what's lighting up. Let me work on that because the person that I become right once I'm able to have a better grasp of being at work and being present at work and being at home and being present at home,

28:15

that person, you know that me in the future will be in a different position to have different things light up,

28:23

right? And she's gonna want different things, but you don't know who she is yet because you haven't met her,

28:27

you haven't become her yet. And with that Christina,

28:30

is there anything you'd like to talk about or mention today that we haven't covered?

28:36

If you take anything from this conversation is,

28:40

don't, you know, don't worry so much about what it's going to look like,

28:46

use your discomfort to guide you as to what you're going to do next.

28:52

And when we are afraid of that,

28:56

that's a really good sign. That that's exactly where we have to go.

29:00

And Christina, I did find your book right on Amazon.

29:03

But tell us if people are looking to connect with you,

29:05

find your book, how can they find you?

29:07

So, my website Christina M Ramirez is kind of the hub for everything that I offer.

29:13

You know, I have parenting coaching all the way to the run clubs to workforce development into the book.

29:18

So, um and I love connecting with people,

29:22

I answer emails all the time.

29:24

So if you have any questions, you know, just there's a contact form in there,

29:28

just email and you know, and I'll answer you.

29:31

I'm, I'm, this is my joy,

29:33

right? And this is my passion. So I'm,

29:35

I'm fully there for you guys. So just go to my website and that's the hub for everything else.

29:40

Well, Christina, thank you for sharing that passion with us and we'll make sure to put that information in the description of the podcast so people can find you and Christina.

29:49

Thank you again for joining the Hurdle Rate podcast.

29:53

It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me here again.

29:56

I'm Emily Vani Tune in next time as we try to answer,

30:00

what is the minimum return we expect from the investment in ourselves and one another.