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Welcome. To the Holy Post Fills

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finally back and he gives an

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update about his family's harrowing medical

0:06

emergency. Then new data shows the

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Democratic party's grip on Black Christians

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new memoir Ghosts Did including church,

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today. Hey welcome

1:39

back! Know how I posed by guess

1:41

I feel Visscher are back. I was

1:44

gone but now I'm back. Did.

1:46

You notice. Did. You

1:48

notice the change and energy. Now

1:50

that I'm back more feel like.

1:53

Yeah. Okay, and I'm here with I'd

1:55

a tiny. I. Sky notice feel

1:57

very glad you're back. You. Failed

1:59

and admire Billie. though I didn't try

2:01

to listen. But. I

2:03

feel like it was admirably done.

2:06

May have an Animal News We

2:08

had Animal News. Teacher.

2:11

Milk. And I listen to part

2:13

of one, but I was a

2:15

little distracted spare. We also have

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Not Caitlin Chestnut, My Geary, Not.

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Ah, Skies Dog we have

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he saw Mccauley High so they

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do. You have a me thank

2:26

you You Rock of Iraq and

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and or you're still in that

2:30

place At Oxford, Your social and

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Oxford. As the same room you're

2:35

in less time with your same room differ slightly

2:37

different angle in the same room. Yes, Whoa

2:39

Whoa. Every time you're on from that room

2:41

I want a slightly different angle. Can

2:44

I'll keep doing Now to you, Keep him back.

2:46

I'll keep doing it and they're either going home. To.

2:49

A Sorry: are there any rooms and Oxford

2:51

that are not wood paneled? Know

2:54

to buy basically the how they did it back in the

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Fail what happened. We heard there

6:06

was a family medical emergency and

6:08

we didn't get any more details

6:10

what happened. Will let me tell

6:13

you this was an interesting couple

6:15

of weeks. Little dicey, lose touch

6:17

and go Now Slow to be.

6:19

Three weeks ago I recorded the

6:21

last podcast that I was on

6:23

and the day before that my

6:25

wife had ah abdominal pain which

6:27

she thought was kind a like

6:29

cramps but different than cramps and

6:31

a little more toward the side

6:33

of. Like childbirth cramps which

6:36

seemed really weird cause we're not

6:38

having a more children and then

6:40

know Monday we recorded that podcast

6:42

and then Monday evening. It was

6:44

bothering her enough that she said

6:47

bullets go to urgent care and

6:49

ask their opinion because or Bluecross

6:51

Blueshield charges or seventy five bucks

6:53

to go to urgent care but

6:55

six hundred bucks to go to

6:58

the are tons. They. Don't

7:00

want you to go to the Are. They don't like

7:02

how often people go to the are so they scented

7:04

or to to swear it's urgent care. An

7:07

urgent care when. You

7:11

should probably go to the are. Saw.

7:13

We went to the are. They. Paid are

7:15

seventy five bucks to urgent care than

7:17

went over to pay our six hundred

7:19

bucks at the yards and yards if

7:21

well. We waited for four hours like

7:23

they always do up. Lisa was that

7:26

the in the E R for fifteen

7:28

hours. That. Night. I'm

7:30

starting at like eleven pm. And

7:32

dad they did an ultrasound and

7:34

they did and M R I

7:36

and they said you know you

7:38

have a mass. Behind. Your

7:41

uterus. About nine centimeters long

7:43

and we kind of freaked out a little

7:45

bit And they said with with we don't

7:47

think it's a tumor, it's probably more likely

7:50

they are Other things that can be. could

7:53

be a diet ovarian cyst

7:56

could be a uterine fibroids

7:58

to notify breeders I never heard that term.

8:00

It's not a breakfast thing. No, it's not Skye. No,

8:03

it's a growth. It's a growth. Yeah.

8:06

And neither of those are like

8:08

emergency situations. People

8:13

have cysts and fibroids fairly commonly but if

8:15

they become painful, they have to be removed.

8:18

So in the ER at the end of all

8:20

that and looking at the scans, they said, we

8:22

think it's probably a fibroid, you should

8:25

go home and set up,

8:27

talk to your doctor about

8:29

surgery. Which

8:31

was a problem because right

8:33

now Lisa doesn't have a doctor because the

8:35

woman that was her doctor and her OB-GYN-E

8:38

retired. So

8:40

she started calling. So we came home,

8:43

she started calling around trying to schedule

8:45

herself a surgery to remove

8:47

a fibroid and wasn't

8:49

getting anywhere. And while she was doing

8:51

that, started spiking a temperature.

8:54

It had been like 100 in the ER and

8:56

they said, we don't count that as a temperature

8:58

so you don't have a fever. And

9:01

so we came home and about

9:03

36 hours later, she was still

9:05

having severe abdomen pain but now

9:07

she was also spiking 103 degree

9:09

temperature. And

9:12

so my mother used to be a nurse in a

9:14

previous life. So my mother said, hey, go to the

9:16

ER. So

9:19

we went back to the ER, this was

9:21

Thursday now, went back

9:23

to the ER, they said, oh my,

9:26

and put her in the hospital. And

9:29

she was in the hospital for 16

9:32

days after that because of

9:34

everything else that happened. So

9:38

she had a high fever, she had pain, they

9:40

put her on morphine to

9:42

handle the pain and then put her on and

9:44

realized she had some sort of infection but nobody

9:46

could find it. Nobody could find the

9:49

infection and they didn't know where

9:51

it was coming from. So they put her on

9:53

really heavy antibiotics for a few days And

9:55

then we had this revolving door of

9:58

doctors. We had OB Guineas. We.

10:00

Had a general are. We

10:02

had infectious disease doctors coming

10:04

in and the big question

10:06

that they were asking for

10:08

like four days was is

10:10

the are the are her

10:12

fevers. And the mass

10:15

in her abdomen related.

10:17

Or. Completely unrelated does she have

10:20

an infection and also a

10:22

large fibroid or. Is.

10:24

Whatever is in her abdomen actually

10:26

causing the infection and the fevers.

10:29

And. This was a critical question

10:32

because if you need surgery they don't

10:34

like to do surgery when you are

10:36

fighting an infection of it makes it

10:38

hard to recover from the infection or

10:41

from the surgery if you're ear immune

10:43

system are a fighting and infectious so

10:45

what they wanted to do was was

10:48

get the infection under control and then

10:50

send her home for a couple weeks

10:52

to and the says of the medical

10:55

terminology eat to cool off. So.

10:57

That she could have surgery. But.

10:59

The infection wasn't really getting under control,

11:02

so it was. So we still have

11:04

people saying it could be ah, I'm

11:06

assist. it could be a fibroid, it

11:08

could be endometriosis, or it could probably

11:11

not, but could be a tumor. doesn't

11:13

look like a tumor. or maybe it's

11:15

some combination of the above in the

11:17

middle of all this and and you

11:20

know, none of those would necessarily demand

11:22

immediate. Surgery. So they

11:24

were still leaning towards we want to get your

11:26

point where we can send you home for couple

11:28

weeks and then you can do surgery outpatient. In.

11:31

The middle of this one of

11:33

the infectious disease doctors. Suggested.

11:36

The theory that it is

11:38

possible that the mass is

11:40

an abscess. And. That, in

11:43

fact is the infection. And.

11:45

So that was now the fifth option.

11:47

So if and if that was the

11:49

case because here's the deal. After the

11:52

day after I'm Susan the hospital maybe

11:54

two days after she was in the

11:56

hospital they were doing blood cultures and

11:58

they discovered have a specific bacteria. In

12:00

her blood which is bad you don't

12:02

want back during your blood means you

12:04

have sepsis. So when she came back

12:07

into the are the second time she

12:09

had sepsis. Which can lead

12:11

to septic shock which has a mortality rate

12:13

of about fifty percent. Very, very bad. So

12:16

she was actually in worse shape than anyone

12:18

thought by the second time she came in

12:20

to the Eeoc. so they were trying to

12:22

get that under control and they had no

12:25

idea. It's like they still to this day

12:27

have no idea where the infection came from

12:29

that was in her blood. They. Don't

12:32

know, I'm. They're still

12:34

debating so she's been now, been

12:36

in the hospital a week. They're

12:38

still debating whether to do surgery

12:40

or not and. Fun!

12:43

when was this is was. A.

12:45

Week ago. Thursday.

12:48

Yes, The Thursday before last Thursday

12:50

for infectious disease doctor came in The

12:52

one who had this other theory came

12:55

in and said i'm super This is

12:57

interesting team is that I'm supposed to

12:59

ask you how you feel about going

13:01

home. And then

13:03

he said, but I'm not going to ask

13:06

you that because I'm not going to let

13:08

you leave And she said. Thanks.

13:11

To com from her home

13:13

until they figure this out

13:15

at the same time we

13:17

had ah, I'm an Ob

13:20

Gyn, a surgeon from this

13:22

is Northwestern. It's the

13:24

Northwestern Medical Center System, Northwestern Health

13:26

Care System, the the big hospitals

13:28

one a Downtown Chicago at Northwestern

13:31

University. I'm so we had people

13:33

from Northwestern in Chicago trying to

13:35

figure out what was going on

13:37

and ob gyn ie. of

13:40

finally said i'll be the surgeon i'll

13:42

do the surgery whenever we think it's

13:44

safe on napoleon and and she wanted

13:47

to pull into more surgeons a i'm

13:49

an oncologist which is a cancer surgeon

13:51

just in case i got in there

13:53

and it was a tumor and it

13:55

was a delicate operation also odd poland

13:58

a general surgeon it's because the couldn't

14:00

tell from the images but there was

14:02

a possibility that whatever the growth was

14:06

was also in her colon, had gone

14:08

through the wall of her colon and

14:10

if that's the case, it'd have to

14:12

do colon surgery which is very delicate

14:14

and can lead to very bad outcomes

14:17

like colostomy bags which nobody wants to

14:19

have one. So they wanted

14:21

a third surgeon on call in case it went

14:23

that way. So we're looking

14:25

at all these possibilities for like a week and you know

14:28

and they're still saying we don't know if we should operate

14:30

or if we should send you home to

14:32

cool off. So

14:34

Thursday just in case

14:36

they scheduled an operation for Friday

14:38

afternoon with they had the

14:41

oncology surgeon and the Obigine surgeon lined

14:43

up so it was on their schedules.

14:46

So we had that scheduled. Thursday

14:49

night Lisa was talking to the Obigine surgeon on

14:51

the phone who said yeah it's probably not going

14:53

to happen tomorrow but we do have it on

14:55

the schedule. She's like what do you mean it's

14:57

not going to happen tomorrow? She

14:59

finally said we'll come in Friday morning and we

15:01

will talk about it and then we'll kind of

15:03

vote and try to figure out what to do.

15:05

So this is the day of the surgery. They

15:09

came in like seven in the morning said

15:11

we're just not comfortable you know it could

15:14

be problematic if we do the surgery

15:16

particularly if your colon is involved and

15:19

we're like what what else are we going to do?

15:22

So then they went away and they huddled all

15:24

the doctors huddled in a big doctor huddle for

15:26

about a half an hour and

15:28

then they came back in and said okay here's what we're

15:30

going to do. We're

15:32

going to go into surgery but we're going to

15:34

put a scope in and we're going to look

15:36

around and figure out what are we

15:39

up against and then based on

15:41

what we see we'll decide whether to

15:43

proceed whether it's something we can do

15:45

laparoscopically which would make it easy to

15:47

recover whether it's something we have to

15:49

just you know open you up for.

15:52

And so that's what they did. So Thursday afternoon

15:55

they took her into surgery they put a scope

15:57

in they noticed that all

16:01

of her parts were sticking

16:04

together as one large

16:06

part. So they noticed with

16:09

the scope that when they pushed on

16:11

one part all the other parts moved

16:13

also which should not happen, should

16:16

not happen and they said

16:18

if you're adhered together and

16:21

we need to go in. So

16:24

it was a four-hour surgery so

16:26

here's what Here's what

16:28

they discovered. The

16:33

infectious disease doctor was

16:35

entirely right. It wasn't a

16:37

fibroid, it wasn't endometriosis, it wasn't a

16:39

tumor, it wasn't an

16:42

ovarian cyst, it was a

16:44

massive ball of infection that

16:47

was spreading throughout her abdomen.

16:50

So it was the equivalent of hoping

16:53

you're going to go in and find a

16:55

little tiny football that you just pull out

16:57

and you said all better, all done and

16:59

instead finding like a swarm of fire ants

17:02

the size of a tiny football and

17:04

the fire ants are going everywhere. The

17:07

surgeon, the Obie Guiney surgeon said it was

17:10

one of the most difficult surgeries she's ever

17:12

done. It took four hours

17:14

because basically they're just trying to clean

17:16

out all the fire ants from everywhere

17:18

and they were all over and of

17:21

course they're too small to see so

17:23

you can't be sure whether you've got

17:25

everything. So they spent about

17:27

three hours just trying to clean

17:30

her out. She ended up with

17:32

an incision that's about

17:34

a foot long across,

17:37

yeah like halfway

17:39

between her starting at her

17:41

pelvic bone and going up past her belly button

17:44

partway towards her breastbone. So

17:47

she then spent

17:49

another week in the hospital while they

17:52

were monitoring because they said there's a

17:54

real danger that we didn't get all the infection

17:57

and that it could come back and that would

17:59

be bad. because we just closed you

18:01

up. So she

18:03

was on more antibiotics, more antibiotics

18:06

for like five more days. And

18:09

finally they got her white blood cell

18:11

count down to normal, which was great.

18:13

And that she was no longer fighting

18:15

an infection. And also

18:18

got her off IV pain meds

18:20

that she'd been on for two weeks now.

18:23

And onto oral pain meds so

18:25

she could come home. So she came home

18:27

on Saturday. We're recording this on Monday. Yesterday

18:29

was her first day home. Today's her second

18:31

day home. She's trying to take a shower

18:33

right now. I'll go check on

18:35

her after this to make sure it worked out okay. And

18:38

we think we're okay. They say

18:41

it'll be two to three weeks

18:43

after surgery before they can say

18:45

for sure she's out of the

18:47

woods on any

18:49

reinfection, which will then be

18:51

like a five week

18:54

process that all started with, hey

18:57

my abdomen kind of hurts. I'll go

18:59

to urgent care and get an

19:01

opinion. Crazy,

19:03

huh? Crazy,

19:06

totally crazy. So

19:10

did they ever say where they think this infection

19:12

came from or what kind of infection it was?

19:15

Yeah, they know what bacteria it was.

19:17

And it's a bacteria that tends

19:20

to be in respiratory tracts. And

19:24

also is more common in young

19:26

kids. So it's possible that she

19:28

picked up something from one

19:31

of our grandkids who are around young kids

19:33

all the time and are always getting sick.

19:36

She'd had some sort of respiratory

19:39

something for about three months, which

19:42

was common with a lot of

19:44

people in the last six

19:46

months. So possible

19:48

that she was coughing so

19:50

hard that she actually coughed

19:52

bacteria out of her, like

19:55

made a little rip in her trachea

19:58

and some bacteria got out. way

20:01

also possible that it could have leaked out of

20:03

her colon some way so

20:05

their official position is they don't know

20:08

where it came from they just

20:10

need to make sure it doesn't come back because it

20:12

almost killed her. Yep.

20:15

Amazing. Yep. That's

20:17

scary. That's that's what I've been doing for the

20:20

last two and a half weeks and

20:22

what she's been doing so. Well we are really

20:24

glad that they got to the bottom of it and it was I

20:26

saw I saw Lisa last week at

20:28

the hospital and she seemed on the

20:30

mend when I saw her and I'm

20:32

glad to hear she's home and that you

20:34

guys are hopefully heading back towards normalcy but

20:37

yeah very scary. Yeah so they

20:39

took out all of her reproductive parts because

20:42

there's for one thing we're

20:44

completely done reproducing and

20:46

that's a solemn vow and

20:48

for another thing it's very easy

20:51

for them to get infected or you know

20:53

cancerous or who knows what else the older

20:55

you get so be

20:57

gone so she and when she

20:59

came back from surgery she felt

21:01

different you know she was like

21:04

my middle feels happier. You

21:07

have a raging infection throughout your abdomen.

21:11

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah one of

21:13

the reasons that they couldn't get a handle on what

21:15

they were looking at is they said there was so

21:17

much inflammation in her that the imaging just wasn't clear.

21:21

There's a score and they do

21:23

your blood work there's a score that measures

21:25

inflammation and I forget what it's

21:27

called but normal is 10 and

21:29

when she came into the R she was at 280 which is

21:31

higher than normal. So

21:36

I'm sure everyone listening to this is

21:38

grateful for the update and that Lisa

21:41

is doing well and that you're back

21:43

and but to

21:45

make this a little bit holy posty other

21:48

than just a very lengthy medical update. Yeah.

21:50

Some people get squirmish around this stuff. I

21:52

think it's fascinating but yeah here's my question

21:54

Phil. Can you make it. Yeah.

21:58

You saw the light the light is blinking. I

22:00

don't want to like have people who are going to be a thing. I

22:02

want to try to fix that. One

22:04

second. Okay. So here's my question then,

22:06

Phil. Okay. Can you draw sermon illustration

22:08

from any of your experience? Oh

22:10

man. Oh, I

22:13

think I need

22:16

more distance first. I

22:18

think I need more distance before I

22:20

start drawing sermon illustrations except if you've

22:23

got a belly full

22:25

of fire ants, you need

22:27

divine help. I'll

22:30

just say praise God that she's still alive. I'll be

22:32

the closest person amongst us today. I'm

22:34

sorry that she had to go through the

22:36

things that she did, but praise God they

22:38

eventually figured it out and that the surgery

22:40

was successful and that I'm sure that everybody

22:42

who's listening to this will be praying for

22:45

her speedy recovery and for the people

22:47

who are prayer warriors. So I'm going to start with

22:49

Christian now. You know to pray that the infection doesn't

22:51

come back. That should be the focus of prayer, that

22:53

the infection doesn't come back and that she recovers quickly.

22:56

Yeah. I mean I hope

22:58

people realize if the doctors

23:00

had voted to send her home when they were debating

23:02

what to do and should she stay for surgery or

23:05

not, like that's a life or death decision. Had

23:07

they sent her home, it could have really, really, really

23:09

been bad. So yeah. She

23:11

couldn't have been home very long

23:14

without things really running away

23:16

because she would have had to switch

23:18

from you know the IV antibiotics and

23:20

painkillers to just oral antibiotics which they

23:23

say are about one tenth

23:25

as effective as IV antibiotics.

23:28

So yeah. So she was definitely

23:30

in a precarious place and her

23:32

hero is the infectious

23:34

disease doctor who just kept

23:37

saying, I'm not going to let you leave. I

23:40

don't care what anyone else says, I'm not going to let you

23:42

leave. And you

23:44

know and then the surgeon who just

23:46

said that was one of the most difficult surgeries

23:49

of my entire life. Wow!

23:52

Okay, fun! Weeee!

23:56

We scored high

23:58

on the complexity. No.

24:00

And. But. She kind of viewed

24:02

it because you there for sixteen days which is

24:04

a long time to you know be in a

24:06

room. In. A hospital. She did like

24:09

the fact that you could just pick

24:11

up the phone and say you know,

24:13

bring me a salad, settings, driver of

24:16

the night or to a it's benefits.

24:18

So the little bit like like a

24:20

little bit like a spiritual retreat at

24:23

a nice hotel with room service. Believe.

24:26

Believe it or not, when I

24:28

was in elementary school I had

24:30

a stomach ache get searched and

24:33

I went to the emergency room

24:35

and they found an abscess him.

24:38

And. They said that if it explode back

24:40

to do said that without the I would

24:42

have died to they to me to surgery

24:44

immediately and I had a add a scar

24:46

when I was a kid he ran from

24:48

the top of my chest all the way

24:50

down muslim it but now that I'm top

24:53

now that I grew in only covers about

24:55

half of my stomach so that and I

24:57

was in hospital for like a weaker to

24:59

plan out actually learn how to walk again

25:01

and almost.said Here's a true ears are the

25:03

true stories. There's almost a half. And.

25:05

Here's a here's the crazy part about it.

25:07

When he first started I was faking because

25:09

I want to go home and watch a

25:12

football game for my stomach hurt a little

25:14

bit but it is heard that bath says

25:16

momma got up to the Forty Niners are

25:18

playing be the Dallas Cowboys that we may

25:20

have I, Joe Montana or Steve Young and

25:22

in our life mom my stomach area which

25:24

is true but in her that bad My

25:26

mom said I wanted to the emergency room

25:29

and a year figures you getting into trouble

25:31

to make are scared enough like oh this

25:33

actually hurts so not a demonstrable Mls A.

25:35

Oh no is really really hurts amoebas. Have

25:37

a go to the doctor am in really

25:40

bad sakes issue hours in surgery within twenty

25:42

four hours could be they saw it in

25:44

a diggers me my pin my penis if

25:46

they do my bidding. So why they were

25:49

in their to to there's a scar on

25:51

here and Miss Cargo and out much as

25:53

though I do know I like to go

25:56

into the hospital with a stomachache. Him.

25:58

In a doctor say you almost die. That had

26:00

met up with me to. Wow. Okay,

26:03

See him as many mean how far

26:05

to the problem is way that's not

26:07

even in the book. I to be

26:09

like the fourth bonuses or how does

26:11

this is the same settle on the

26:13

line of their same as the boss

26:15

Wow most.a lotta times in the book

26:17

into I thought that were saying almost

26:19

odd people when believe me but yeah

26:21

was almost I quite a few times

26:23

starts to lose its impact after he

26:26

I'll call me I almost died again.

26:28

If you look at me I'm still

26:30

hear me. Okay that's enough about that.

26:32

So yeah. We would appreciate your prayers

26:34

that does. She makes its on recovery

26:36

and can go back to being have

26:38

a very fun weiss and grandmother and

26:41

mother and voices junior asparagus even though

26:43

she's not allowed to be the voice

26:45

a junior asparagus anymore. Because.

26:48

Of big mean corporations.

26:50

Okay Florida, man. This.

26:54

Is a bible? Does your bible? Non

26:56

Florida man runs over alligator to save

26:58

his neighbor. Okay, There.

27:01

Isn't a bible involved? But I just loved it

27:03

anyway. But we're not going to discuss it. Okay,

27:05

we're not going to discuss it because there's no

27:07

bible involved. But I just woke up. Ah,

27:09

I'm Florida resident. Walter Rudder was

27:11

driving home with his wife on

27:13

Friday evening when he saw a

27:15

large alligator dragging his friend direct

27:18

across the street. The

27:22

family be written as regards as is a good three

27:24

and up like. A

27:26

Federal. Funding.

27:34

Like as possible that slightly as not

27:36

Rick do not know boys I gotta

27:38

get America are not. Nope. Sorry, that's

27:40

not record at Mob Mob. Quick thinking,

27:42

he did what any good neighbor would

27:45

do. He stepped on the gas, drove

27:47

onto the sidewalk, and ran over the

27:49

alligator with his car. The alligator than

27:52

released it's grip on rec and ran

27:54

back to a nearby pond. The.

27:57

Other alligator game doesn't it? I

27:59

mean because. The alligator in are pretty close

28:01

the money I. Was

28:04

close bys. Okay,

28:08

sorry so I we can't discuss that

28:10

cause there's no bible in it. So

28:12

instead we're going to discuss Florida. Man

28:14

asks schools to ban the bible following

28:17

the states efforts to remove books and

28:19

you've probably heard about people to instance

28:21

like this. A Florida activists known for

28:23

his tongue in cheek petitions to local

28:25

government agencies has our school districts and

28:27

Florida to ban the bible. In

28:30

petition sent to public school superintendents

28:32

across the state has Stevens who

28:34

has a class clown in middle

28:37

school. I'm almost positive. ask the

28:39

districts to immediately remove the bible

28:41

from the classroom librarian, any instructional

28:43

materials or he shared these documents

28:45

and pr. Additionally, I also seek

28:48

the banishment have any book that

28:50

references the bible. My

28:53

objection: He explained in his letter my

28:55

objection to the bible being in your

28:57

public schools based on the following seven

28:59

points offered. for your learned consideration, He

29:01

proceeded to question whether the bible is

29:03

age appropriate, pointing to it's casual references

29:05

to murder, adultery, sexual immorality, and fornication.

29:07

Do we really want to teach our

29:09

youth about drunken orgies? He also took

29:11

issue with many biblical references to rape

29:13

beast yeah, what he cannibalism and infanticide

29:15

Than he said in the end of,

29:17

Jimmy and Susie are curious about any

29:19

of the above. They can do it

29:21

everywhere else does get. A room at the

29:23

Motel Six and grab the Gideon. So. That's

29:26

how he ended his letter yard line

29:28

theories about the bible. My thought is

29:30

good, a hotel room and read this

29:32

book in my nightstand with everyone on

29:34

either Magnum though and money to do

29:36

for to public schools have. Bibles

29:38

in them. In

29:40

the library. Bibles. Or in most

29:43

libraries. Account you know

29:45

earned a bachelor's or commercial with into

29:47

conversation appears something it's mood you might

29:49

not know who. history, facts, derby abolitionist

29:51

movement there was the debate because they're

29:53

worth are under but abolitionists I think

29:55

it may be american by with the

29:57

side adam her who was who was

29:59

somebody. Who wanted to

30:01

send the by both into

30:03

the South into the slave

30:05

quarters? And. There was some abolitionist

30:08

who oppose this in instantly. Another Frederick Douglas

30:10

with on the side of don't Use in

30:12

the By both into the Slave Quarters because

30:14

if you if the people as we aren't

30:16

allowed to read and if it's misinterpreted there

30:18

is a good do as much harm is

30:21

good and so they said doubts in the

30:23

bible there unless you going to send people

30:25

to help them read it properly and so

30:27

the idea was just would have seen the

30:29

bible it on interpreted and Freddie Douglas as

30:31

he said the bible on interpret its to

30:34

symptoms do more harm than good at least

30:36

that's what Yeah. But but Esau. Are.

30:38

We really need is just the plane

30:41

reading of the bible. The plane freezing

30:43

of the bible is what God intended.

30:46

That's. One way of gone about. Hebrew

30:49

and Hebrew and greet us so it's early

30:52

enough. it's them in of their work. There

30:54

was a debate and ultimately I think it

30:56

didn't It didn't go through that out of

30:58

here to buy was were sent out of

31:01

remembered hours. You're in favor of banning the

31:03

bible from grade so node and out there

31:05

we go in every oh no no no

31:07

act as I think I'm in favor of

31:10

teaching people responsible reading the bible. He.

31:12

And thus mammoth a rubber Nothing to

31:14

the by where it properly says people

31:16

free the bible, rip poorly thought out

31:18

loans later you believe every will every

31:20

public school that has a Bible in

31:22

the library shelf for have a chaplain

31:25

on staff to help people. Students.

31:27

Read it. More. There's these

31:29

wonderful things you can also be library called

31:31

both on interpretive method sashimi bank pretty useless

31:33

give them that to a Nasa do but

31:35

and I know in a lot of these

31:37

on the schools in Florida. The actually our

31:39

class on the bible as literature is as

31:42

probably satish on a good imagine the bible

31:44

in a library when I was literature as

31:46

I do think it is actually important even

31:48

if you have no religion. Religious police

31:50

at all to understand this Texas had

31:52

tremendous influence the Mic mysteries and ways

31:54

in which reading it poorly and reading

31:57

and well as lead to human flourishing

31:59

and people. Interpret it had you the

32:01

best that's I do think that it

32:03

is important to. Teach. People how

32:05

to read well. Cell.

32:08

Is a story about a reaction to

32:10

his what. The. Legislature for has

32:12

done and and gov to santas and

32:14

banning certain topics and books and so

32:16

they've tried to flip this around and

32:18

use the same. Legislation.

32:20

To ban the bible is that would advise out

32:23

of yachting my head. Yes, it's a start and

32:25

they've done it in Texas and a few other

32:27

places in the South are they send is all

32:29

right. I.

32:31

Know I'm no. I've never heard a follow up

32:33

on on. I've heard about it being tried in

32:35

our I have is that you think that's age

32:37

appropriate then we're going to take your bibles away

32:40

for their age appropriate to. I heard another start

32:42

where they were trying to ban the dictionary from.

32:45

These schools because the dictionary included

32:47

words that were banned under the

32:49

legislation. another bus ride, Ah

32:52

that's a good question I do not

32:54

know. I'm hey producer Mike for you.

32:56

follow up on that and let us

32:58

know for next week whether any of

33:01

this thing so of actually actually helped

33:03

or I'm going to move on because.

33:06

I preferred the story about the

33:08

alligator dragging rec. But

33:10

there was a bible in his pocket out of

33:13

but out a bunch of follow up the mean

33:15

this like Daniel in the Last Man who Is

33:17

Deb the you know my bit mad there are

33:19

could have gotten not going to go to the

33:21

bible from that when he can we bomb womanhood

33:24

of yeah but let him as a regular again

33:26

in it or Rick has several puncture wounds in

33:28

his leg but he's okay and was written toxic

33:30

he did. When this happens when you think you

33:32

have to be intoxicated to get attacked by an

33:34

alligator or you know my all Florida. Men

33:37

are intoxicated as a general condition.

33:39

I just like I have this

33:41

picture of an alligator dragging on

33:43

limp man. Who the

33:45

only well limp I will like? I. Mean

33:48

he wasn't a not like why is it

33:50

like on a real the gonna go ahead

33:53

I'm wondering how slow this is all taking

33:55

place was you know aca like I can

33:57

drop and run over half of the the

33:59

alligator. And I'm not here. Rick

34:02

are highly the I do. I think

34:04

they might teach people in Florida how

34:06

to do this because my wife's my

34:08

wife's grandmother who's. Passed.

34:10

Away some years ago the first time I

34:12

was she lives in the Panhandle Florida. After

34:15

we were married I was down there with

34:17

her and she was driving her ozil below

34:19

whatever it was in. There was an Armadillo

34:21

on the road and she swerved to deliberately

34:23

to hit this Armadillos in seen on nailed

34:26

the thing and then she jokes patent gets

34:28

passage she hits the brakes, puts it in

34:30

reverse impacts over the thing again and all

34:32

I heard her say is says i i

34:34

hate those things I hate those things and

34:37

she does one alves nail this thing with

34:39

her multiple times and water. You think you

34:41

think that as a partner like three

34:43

point turns in an hour animal attack

34:46

as appointed a whole floor. Yes, I'm

34:48

an unfair look. And here's my question:

34:50

if you run over an alligator to

34:52

save yourself Is that defensive driving? and

34:54

if you run over it to save

34:57

someone else Is that offensive driving? Him.

35:03

Okay, I. See, I'm stumped you

35:05

on that. One number of it may

35:07

in a move to the next. starts.

35:09

Have the Democrats lost the Black Church?

35:12

Are there cracks forming in this longstanding

35:14

alliance? This is our buddy Ryan birds.

35:16

Looking at the latest research, there's been

35:18

a lotta talk about how Donald Trump

35:21

has been picking up more and more

35:23

the black vote particularly black male votes

35:25

and that the had the Republican party

35:27

is picking up more or asked American

35:30

males in particular. Self.

35:32

Ryan Birds does a deep deep

35:34

dive and shows pretty clearly you

35:37

know what we've talked about before.

35:39

Lot of people talked about that.

35:41

Most ah, Black Protestants are not

35:44

as liberal as many white democrats.

35:46

They still vote Democrat, but they're

35:48

not nearly as socially liberal as

35:51

are many White in actually now

35:53

are more moderate than the average

35:55

Democrat, So black Protestants are more

35:58

moderate than the average Stem. That

36:00

they're still largely identifying with

36:02

the Democratic party and voting

36:05

for democratic candidates. But the

36:07

question is, is that slipping?

36:09

And the more the Democratic

36:12

party. Makes things

36:14

like abortion and I'm your

36:16

that same sex marriage or.

36:20

Some of them most liberal policies that

36:22

are coming out of the left wing

36:25

of the Democratic party. are they pushing

36:27

more and more black Protestants away from

36:29

the party? Hey. He.

36:32

Saw. You have a point

36:34

of view on an app. Com

36:36

Os Everybody know how M M

36:38

M appreciable he might have asked

36:40

me. I figured, hey, I kind

36:43

of wrote a book about some

36:45

of this stuff. Not a political

36:47

part of it, but I think

36:49

there's always been a misperception on

36:51

I'm What Black Religiosity actually. Years

36:53

and historically, we've been theologically relatively

36:55

traditional and so politically, a little

36:57

bit more progressive. mostly because we've

37:00

seen two things that have historically

37:02

been really important. A Structural

37:04

Racism. Is. A a

37:06

significant felt experience in the black

37:08

communities you could imagine and so

37:10

when they're see the racial animus

37:12

and hostility death more to kind

37:14

of soon African Americans Mike running

37:16

away at those door italy the

37:18

Republican party during summer as who

37:20

and for with with with most

37:22

hostile issues related to to to

37:24

racial injustice of those things like

37:26

hostility and on what kind of

37:28

racial difference is often push African

37:30

Americans into the democratic party but

37:32

that is not always meant that

37:34

we have. Agree with ever the

37:37

democratic party as.as is always been something

37:39

of a separation between comedy extremes are

37:41

the democratic party and what normal black

37:43

religiosity is. but I think one of

37:45

the things that and I don't know

37:47

So let me say this ryan don't

37:49

don't taught me to death did you

37:51

listen to this though But I do

37:53

some point them out at it as

37:55

a question about it because. They're.

37:58

One of the things that I'm saying. M is

38:00

not necessarily that Black Christians are

38:02

becoming more pro trump Imo. see

38:05

that happening in huge numbers of

38:07

think it's like it may be

38:09

something like eighty eight percent from

38:11

of who who are going vote

38:13

democrat down from like ninety one

38:15

ninety four percent rise. but I

38:17

do see a significant number of

38:19

African American ah I'm people who

38:21

have left the church or who

38:23

are as such as dissatisfied with

38:25

the church who are also questioning

38:27

the the Democratic party. In other

38:29

words, I wonder if

38:31

shockingly enough, especially amongst like

38:33

a certain kind of post

38:36

christian African American male with

38:38

kind of. Who

38:41

come out with that? You know what? the Democratic

38:43

party has many thing for us. We don't trust

38:45

Trump but we but we know we know what

38:47

kind of person he is and he's the president

38:49

of you. Make a deal with them he he

38:51

will kind of be someone who can work with

38:53

is so I wonder if. Some

38:56

of the cano

38:58

rise in. A

39:00

certain kind of

39:03

African American post

39:05

Christian Mail. In

39:08

a connoisseur it is. It is somewhat

39:10

drawn to elements of Trump's kind of

39:12

hyper masculinity and kind of the strong

39:14

out of it smelt that. and and

39:16

that's one part. The other part is.

39:18

I do think that African American Christians.

39:22

They're. Not enthusiastically I was. It

39:24

is a whole adults the bay.

39:26

many the my enthusiastically might think

39:28

Trump is a great idea a

39:31

big be really their significant numbers

39:33

of us who would just who

39:35

who are increasingly uncomfortable with. The

39:38

ways in which that the core parts

39:40

to that of the campaign is being

39:42

run in Twenty Twenty Four and so

39:45

I think that you probably will see.

39:48

Continued. Criticism.

39:50

I'm. May be of some

39:53

of the stuff that republicans are doing, but

39:55

I don't think that you're going to see

39:57

the same. For. Throat.

40:00

It. Added

40:02

a good result for throat added to

40:04

the artistic to be as more of

40:06

a there are no easy a good

40:08

solutions that they are gonna let that

40:11

that we're going to be comfortable force

40:13

well do you think because I've I've

40:15

seen this because I'm in, have made

40:17

some videos about race and spoken out

40:20

about things on social media which have

40:22

always a good way to gauge the

40:24

temperature of the broader culture. Just say

40:26

something controversial on social media and and

40:28

and see what happens. I'm V I

40:31

have noticed. A number of

40:33

of Ask America responses that I

40:35

get our from people who are

40:37

i'm particularly man who are more

40:39

successful and lean more libertarian and

40:41

and have you not a little

40:43

more of a sense of yeah,

40:46

those that the African American in

40:48

the inner city they do need

40:50

to pull their themselves up by

40:52

the bootstraps on. They are being

40:54

given opportunities that they're not taking

40:56

advantage of and so I've I've

40:58

bumped into some African American older

41:00

men in particular that. Are. Almost hostile

41:03

toward you know the what they see

41:05

a minute there's out with. There's always

41:07

been of I think that one of

41:09

the things that happens in this is

41:11

another example of it is that. People.

41:14

Don't really understand the various subcultures

41:16

in a nuances with in Rolla

41:18

religious and political world right? I

41:20

would say I'm trying. I'm trying

41:22

not to an attorney to take

41:24

you deep into it and but

41:26

little else I do know how

41:28

there's like a certain time of

41:30

toxic. Ah, I'm. Kind

41:33

of man oh spear like podcasting world

41:35

number to get your put his widowed

41:37

like a balance of it at out

41:39

about them to eat. Yeah don't be

41:41

don't know ya they know me as

41:44

a black version of somebody out there.

41:46

There's a black version a somewhat at

41:48

any in those places where you hear

41:50

conversations. The bit that I'm. That.

41:53

Are. More kind of pro trump mean it's

41:55

more like is from what I what

41:57

I see that's the being most public.

42:00

A bit it almost like the Democratic

42:02

party and a black shirt have not

42:04

done very much more. Black people whose

42:06

name and we're not the ones who

42:08

are popping. when liberation we still oppressive

42:10

it would have a gimmick. The Democratic

42:12

party's for like fifty years or hundred

42:14

years or whatever and we're still and

42:16

the same place that democrats are targeted.

42:18

major cities, mister crammers of issues and

42:20

so well want to say is there

42:22

is a says in which African Americans

42:24

has a legitimate complaints to be to

42:26

make around Hey what Has been to

42:28

Return On Investment for a long. Term

42:30

commitment to the Democratic Party Yeah The

42:32

quote What How many those people are

42:34

been saying? I'm going to go and

42:36

be boko be pro Pro Trump is

42:38

probably not as high as am I

42:40

even managed Media. So. There's a lot

42:43

of the senate as he does. You've almost everybody

42:45

in the country. There's dissatisfaction with one's own party.

42:47

That doesn't necessarily mean you're going to been enthusiastic.

42:50

Advocate for the other part it's baloney

42:52

se saw and still you have a

42:54

sauna to but it is part of

42:56

this. Forget race

42:58

for a minute. Forget ethnicity, forget

43:00

background is are just a certain

43:02

percentage of all people that are

43:04

just drawn to authoritarian. And.

43:07

Trump has that authoritarian. I don't care about the

43:09

rules, I don't care about history and on care

43:11

about traditional care about constitution or laws. I'm just

43:14

going to do what has to be done And

43:16

some people are like yeah, that's what we want.

43:19

What think? I think there's a sense

43:22

that everybody is corrupt. And.

43:24

Some people of Britain and I did not corrupt. Trump

43:27

Is it with any like he's not corrupt

43:29

before we know the tropical do whatever it

43:31

takes to to stay in power. In a

43:33

weird the prison voting block the we get

43:35

into a we want best basically the logic

43:38

that and that I've heard it's oh yes

43:40

there's a certain kind of utilitarianism under Gurney

43:42

Gets and out Ashley say if. It.

43:45

Is kind of the black church that

43:47

is in some sense holding some way

43:49

that at bay. Men

43:52

Other words that were say you

43:54

know there is an ethics of

43:56

I'm. Not is in by

43:58

what we get but as. There's an addict

44:00

of how we get to The whole

44:02

point is a movement nirvana resistance is

44:05

we don't just want these political ends,

44:07

the the means by which we get

44:09

the must also be ethical. And so

44:11

this idea that as Christians we have

44:13

to be concerned with how we do

44:15

things that is what we received his

44:17

in some sense, keeping the moderate elements

44:19

of black religiosity and put in place

44:21

is almost like you don't eat or

44:23

eat or what have. You

44:26

don't want to see what happens if

44:28

ah the blacks or loses more voice

44:31

to they were going to be in

44:33

an organized and we already are You

44:35

do you cause you were a couple

44:37

years ago move back to a historically

44:39

f American congregation and on do you

44:42

see in that. Congregation.

44:45

A split between the

44:47

the youngest generation and

44:49

the older generations were

44:51

the youngest generations are becoming

44:54

more activist. You're. In

44:56

a way that the older generations

44:58

wouldn't have. No,

45:00

I'm it. I want to say I'm

45:02

are the victors that I'd seen as

45:04

less like a bad generation. so it's

45:06

like everybody's their yeah and so are

45:08

multigenerational. And I would say. All.

45:12

Of us. Are. Obviously.

45:15

Aware of kind of that the current

45:17

election. And when a semi

45:19

to they play and we understand it I

45:21

would say that were between Iraq and a

45:24

Hard Place as relates to the candidates emmett

45:26

whoever whoever wins the elected Christian of and

45:28

have a porn work to do so there

45:30

isn't There is an outcome of the election

45:32

where we can ago oh so us a

45:34

while there's no more ethical or cultural issues

45:37

for us to battle with like a lot

45:39

of me my friend had on the said

45:41

okay this person wins that we gotta you're

45:43

at a do with these issues in person

45:45

when Geiger A to those issues and it's

45:47

almost like we just. Waiting to see

45:49

the saper the battle I will say

45:52

that there's a less of. If.

45:55

If you and. There.

45:58

There isn't like a question of. If

46:00

you don't go to say something like if

46:02

you had a ninety one are you are

46:05

examined He went to an eighty nine on

46:07

the exam he my nicely notice it until

46:09

you get to like and eighty five when

46:11

a whore right right? It's been a significant

46:14

enough shift in black voting or black political

46:16

sense to yeah I'm really be felt in

46:18

kind of Weldon Wagner's Here's what I'm getting

46:20

at is a we had that we've had

46:23

passed her Charlie Dates on the show a

46:25

number times over the years and and one

46:27

of our conversations he talked about ah you

46:29

know. Leading a group of other

46:32

Ask American pastors. Who. Wanted

46:34

to march with the younger generation

46:36

of activists you know in a

46:38

arrow test march and the younger

46:40

generation said no, we don't want

46:42

you in front of our march,

46:44

you know, years year Now yesterday

46:46

this is our march and I'm

46:48

wary of the if you see

46:50

that were younger African Americans, particularly

46:52

college educated. You

46:54

know, at at at some of the

46:57

more progressive schools. Now look at the

46:59

Black Church as more or less irrelevant.

47:02

I mean obviously that's one of the things

47:04

are trying to get there earlier where the

47:07

question is what is the Democratic Party done

47:09

it off The make to or sometimes coat

47:11

cognitive with. What is a black church is

47:13

done no sense in which earned some of

47:15

those some of the Soros with some that

47:17

some of the boomers that happen posts Twenty

47:19

Twenty very explicitly say this is Japan Civil

47:21

Rights movement and so one of the things

47:23

that I have tried to do with the

47:25

of our own by for ministers say it

47:27

as and we had to repeat everything that

47:29

was done in the nineteen sixties. But there's

47:31

certain things ethically. That they did that. If

47:33

we lose it then we're going be it

47:36

in real danger as a country and will

47:38

not talk about that. The idea that not

47:40

to be African American community as restraining force

47:42

or African American turret is actually a directive

47:45

for we try to direct. Dissatisfaction,

47:47

tours, action and away bit as God

47:49

war by and that's what I wanna

47:51

say is the real issue is is

47:53

though I would be nice is that

47:55

a diagnosis right? We'd health and votes

47:57

artisan or is understand it I noticed

47:59

this. It's like what is

48:01

the prescription and how do we know?

48:03

how do we find the right? You're

48:06

a one of the prescription that people

48:08

are saying is which as far as

48:10

bbc that unapologetic allegiances to any political

48:12

party. My friends who are democrats are

48:15

guess it a Muslim independent and I've

48:17

been independent for i don't know com

48:19

the last decade or so and so

48:21

on. A baby to that political you

48:23

know, a political. Unqualified.

48:26

The leaders in is not my job to t

48:28

black people voting for any particular party. It is

48:30

my job to say they're sorry issues that are

48:32

they can for for us to continue to keep

48:34

before the nation and and whatever party U N

48:36

is a poor feed be crazy not to speak

48:38

by both issues. Yeah. Yeah. Okay,

48:41

Sky. New last thoughts. I.

48:44

Know I. I think the whole idea of not

48:46

been maligned with any party is. Important

48:49

for christians and all too rare regardless

48:51

of where you're coming from. Whether you

48:53

serve a reason the democratic party, your

48:55

community, or the republican by that. It's

48:58

so tribal people on can tolerate

49:00

and of hall. I've

49:02

always had this to stream and may

49:04

back and pitch it on. Our only

49:06

birds with one are millions of listeners

49:08

see Saudi Arabia matter what I've always

49:10

thought would be great if we could

49:13

actually accomplish this idea could be called

49:15

independence day we're all the christians actually

49:17

just on the same day less to

49:19

parties and we became in the been

49:21

and we said we want to see

49:23

a better posted when as back. In

49:25

other words we all independent seen of out

49:27

of the political party saw oh my goodness

49:29

out of the badly would just dropped out

49:31

of the roles oh we'd lost out of

49:34

a bunch of without a republican party said

49:36

you're sitting in a bucket called com get

49:38

us ah he made me want to say

49:40

hey what is your actual proposal speak as

49:42

often as he does come down to the

49:44

argument is the other side is so evil

49:46

he by the stay with us ranks as

49:48

I was in honor of you Need to

49:50

Win me is like appreciate me as I

49:52

would say they will be get will be

49:54

great if christians. Were.

49:56

Seen as someone who we have to

49:59

actually win. With policies that

50:01

are comprehensively or more extensively christian

50:03

into I do think bit I

50:05

will love it if we did

50:08

that but so did some. I

50:10

was organized that ah make it

50:12

happen and the com our ha

50:14

ha ha ha Yeah okay we'll

50:17

get to work on that. Hey

50:19

every down and ah keep my

50:21

wife Lisa in your prayers. Ah

50:24

pray for Esau scars that will

50:26

discontinue shrinking as he grows bigger

50:28

and bigger and hundred. For when

50:30

he's thirty three saw he will have

50:33

no more scars. This is a dumb

50:35

go to what? What's this week on

50:37

on? I'm at a Caitlin. Curiously,

50:39

Caitlin, what's this weekend with this week is.

50:42

Ah, And know cousin com came

50:44

out yesterday, but word according this will

50:46

be tomorrow, right? is not out yet?

50:48

Okay, as we want our that is

50:50

so funny as it resonated curiously. Caitlin,

50:52

go check out this week's podcast and

50:54

sign up unsubscribed so that yeah so

50:56

she can build her voice as we're

50:58

helping her and we have a great

51:01

interview coming up today. Who is It's

51:03

guy? Nancy. French. Fancy.

51:05

French do now is worse.

51:08

The. I get any of us all this all

51:10

the dirt on David a T year we

51:12

see you that he only got a yet

51:14

open it up vicinity the Tia. we should

51:16

do a bonus episode where she gives us

51:18

home. Actually I'm going to be with David

51:20

this on Thursday night. were doing the show

51:23

a live event and national but ah Nancy

51:25

Sense has taken her new memoir Agosta which

51:27

we talk about is how amazing is that!

51:29

I read the whole thing really quickly because

51:31

it was so. Good. But it,

51:33

it's not at all what I expected. Which.

51:36

Will get into that comes with it. was it

51:38

was better or worse than he says memoir. On

51:41

better than better out not reddit readers have

51:43

you written as yes? oh for him and

51:45

I would out of a can claim the

51:47

whole makes eight years and win a Pulitzer

51:49

soon. Yes he is really really good as

51:51

book of the year. Like. A

51:54

I didn't win any book of a year who

51:56

just on with it was one of the best

51:58

books. Twenty twenty three. Even that. Another

52:02

area surrounded by people reading brilliant memoirs

52:04

states like everyone's got this greens are

52:06

you hot or star there's a my

52:09

own of spill it spilled isi fitness

52:11

of this guy fall like more like

52:13

on thing memory goes ah that Sky

52:15

Four ligaments That sounds like I'm in

52:18

a scandal. I know that were able

52:20

to read Sky That's why they're not

52:22

as best as. The

52:26

people what they want okay married are it's

52:28

a Serbian air was the. Next week

52:30

go by. When. I was a

52:32

younger man, I did not know how

52:34

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52:36

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52:40

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52:42

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52:44

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52:46

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53:26

we post. David.

53:28

French has been a regular feature on

53:30

The Holy Post for years, but today

53:32

I'm delighted to have his wife Nancy

53:35

on the show for the first time.

53:37

I read her new memoir called Ghost

53:39

Did and was blown away by. It

53:41

is powerful, beautiful, painful, and a book

53:43

I know a lot of Holy Posters

53:45

will resonate deeply with. For those unfamiliar

53:47

with Nancy French, she's been a ghostwriter

53:49

for celebrities and conservative politicians for years.

53:51

That's where the book's title ghost it

53:53

comes from, along with the fact that

53:55

she and David where go sit by

53:57

much of their republican. Community and twenty.

54:00

Sixteen when they refuse to support

54:02

Donald Trump. Some of Nancy's books

54:04

have a New York Times bestsellers.

54:06

She's also a journalists who did

54:08

extensive reporting about the sexual abuse

54:10

and cover ups. and Kenneth Cook

54:12

Hands As you'll hear in the

54:14

interview, Nancy is incredibly honest and

54:16

humble. She doesn't pretend to have

54:18

all the answers, and her book

54:21

is is never preachy. It's just

54:23

absolutely wrong. and I was so

54:25

encouraged by her authenticity. Here is

54:27

my conversation with Nancy sense. Nancy.

54:31

French. I'm delighted to have you on the Holy Post.

54:33

Thanks for being here. Thanks on the sky

54:35

didn't sign. I'm used to recording with David

54:38

in that room so it's funny seeing you there

54:40

and sty. Now. I normally remove my is

54:42

a grizzly gear from behind man replace it

54:44

at least with some Lakers care. but today

54:46

I just didn't have the energy us. Lakers

54:49

you're a the as in expect that

54:51

long suffering. As know you know

54:53

I grew up in Kentucky say

54:55

you have to choose like your

54:58

professional team independent of geography. We

55:00

didn't have any any teams and

55:02

sell right in their Magic Johnson

55:04

Larry Bird divide says magic and

55:06

then suffering. Ever since we've had

55:08

some highlights. While

55:11

speaking of growing up in Kentucky, your new book

55:13

is called ghost is an American Story I've I've

55:15

heard of number of interviews you've done about this

55:17

books on Msnbc. I think I was in the

55:19

Jonah Goldberg conversation with you and they're all great,

55:22

but I know you've done far more than I

55:24

could have listened to a lot of the interviews

55:26

I've heard focus on the latter half of the

55:28

both hands and some of the fall out that

55:30

happen for you and David when you didn't support

55:33

Donald Trump was in your christian community and the

55:35

Republican circles. You moved in our begin by talking

55:37

about the first part of the book which I

55:39

haven't heard you talk. As much about on

55:41

those kind of mainstream outlets. One of

55:43

the things that surprised me early in

55:46

the book was how important. Charismatic.

55:49

Christianity was to both you and David

55:51

at some critical points in your lives

55:53

and the formative impacts I had and

55:55

certainly things like. He. Leans

55:57

Prayer Prophecy Premise. The

56:00

all that kind of so they can kind of weird

56:02

are people who don't come from those for dinner. I

56:04

can you share a little bit about that and why

56:06

you chose to include that stuff in this book knowing

56:08

that it was going to be read by a lot

56:10

of people. Outside of those

56:12

circles. You. Know

56:14

it's your mind All and writing this

56:16

book was to create a book that

56:18

with honest in candid that would not

56:20

result in any turrets inviting me to

56:22

speak their. Kid,

56:25

I never want to do that right.

56:27

And I'm not as theologian. I am

56:30

hanging out of Christianity by my fingernails.

56:32

Ice the I'm I'm not a theologian

56:34

at all that in my life and

56:36

had all these really crazy and interesting

56:39

experiences that I can't discounts and so

56:41

like for example I'm They I include

56:43

in the book some dreams that I

56:45

had that are really untidy and. The.

56:48

Head scratching and frustrating and maddening.

56:50

and I just have endeared. David

56:52

was healed of an incurable disease

56:54

you know, like that happened and

56:56

then we had some prophetic things

56:58

happen. is? I feel like I

57:00

don't understand why God made these

57:02

things happen, but they definitely happened

57:04

and I det didn't want to

57:06

like. I. Think I think

57:08

it's probably not the coolest thing in the

57:11

world to be like a charismatic systems are,

57:13

but these things happen to As and I

57:15

just wanted to be honest about it And

57:17

I wanted to be honest about it in

57:20

the way said that people who do not

57:22

understand died including myself. Can. Sort

57:24

is. Read about it and have

57:26

there's a curiosity piqued because these things

57:28

happened. Am not sure why but I

57:31

wanted to include them. I feel like

57:33

a lot of people probably have these

57:35

like flirtations with the spirit or in

57:37

ways that they don't understand and I

57:39

to sort of wanted to give voice

57:41

to that. While. I'm

57:44

glad you did it. One of the things

57:46

that reminds me of as years ago I

57:48

was in New York City as a part

57:50

of a small gathering of of christian leaders.

57:52

We were generally mostly young people to times

57:54

and the first my we were together our

57:57

hosts asses all to share our stories or

57:59

testimonies. And the group

58:01

around the table came from very divergent

58:03

Christian backgrounds all Avenue Celikkol in some

58:05

capacity but very different. the allergies with

58:07

the mats and we all spend hours

58:10

and hours over wonderful meal sharing those

58:12

stories. In the next morning our hosts

58:14

came together and he said that in

58:16

a in listening or everyone stories to

58:19

things stood out to him. One every

58:21

one mentioned a significant season of pain

58:23

or loss er trauma and to everyone

58:25

mentioned some kind of what we would

58:28

categorize as a charismatic experience, even those.

58:30

Who didn't come from charismatic backgrounds as been

58:32

pivotal in our experience of God and calling

58:34

into ministry or whatever might be. And so

58:36

you? The fact that you didn't bury those

58:38

stories are you could have. I just appreciate

58:41

it because I think you're right A lot

58:43

people are having those kinds of. Experiences.

58:46

But don't know what to do with them.

58:48

So the fact that you're so open about

58:50

it is incredible. Related to that. Going

58:53

forward to the kind of mag of stuff. I

58:56

know you're well aware that an awful lot

58:58

of the Mag a move miss messy with

59:00

and Christian circles rise heavily on those charismatic

59:03

elements allow there's people claim prophetic word and

59:05

visions and all the so source of which

59:07

made it that much more interesting to me

59:09

that neither you nor David were caught up

59:12

in the Mag a movement given is charismatic

59:14

experiences at you'd had. In.

59:16

Those formative years. Of

59:18

was it about your experience with. Charismatic.

59:20

Christianity that. Wraps.

59:23

Kept you from falling into those

59:25

traps that other charismatic christians did

59:27

when the Trump stuff came down

59:29

the pike. I didn't. Have a good

59:31

answer for this that I did have two

59:33

different sort of charismatic experiences. Wine was I

59:35

catalyzed by the Harvard Law School Christian Fellowship

59:38

that David where the part as I did

59:40

not know him and he was at Harvard

59:42

but I met him right after. and those

59:44

are the people that prayed for Ham on

59:46

when he had an incurable disease and he

59:48

was cured south. at that point in my

59:51

life I'd never at it. now about I

59:53

didn't want a pentecostal was am except stay

59:55

have contempt for them obviously him and. He.

59:57

Had his else. The.

1:00:01

With always told that we should be contemptuous

1:00:03

of these people because they're given her motion

1:00:05

and they're not smart and they can't figure

1:00:07

things out the can't read documents And then

1:00:09

I was introduced to these Harvard Law School

1:00:12

Christian Fellowship people who at by all accounts

1:00:14

people would trust them. To read documents. And.

1:00:16

So I was like, you know, the bible,

1:00:18

the document. Maybe there's something to the fact

1:00:20

that you know all of these supernatural things

1:00:22

to happen. So that's what sort of piqued

1:00:24

my interest on that. And then David was

1:00:26

miraculously healed and he did not have to

1:00:28

go to this draconian surgery that was going

1:00:30

to remove his column. And

1:00:33

he still great twenty eight years later.

1:00:35

So that was the first thing and

1:00:37

then the second thing was we went

1:00:39

to an Assembly Guide church in rural

1:00:41

Kentucky and that was amazing and wonderful

1:00:43

and a totally different experiences you might

1:00:45

imagine an the lovelies hurt in everybody

1:00:48

with great there and he was like

1:00:50

one of the best searches church experiences

1:00:52

that we had. David and I actually

1:00:54

word Interim Youth Pastors on and died

1:00:56

which is weird but why would he

1:00:58

know if we had We just had

1:01:00

a great experience and that. All

1:01:03

of the people that I knew that

1:01:05

word like you know that has an

1:01:07

alley spirit or for lack of a

1:01:09

better phrase that on even other the

1:01:11

right language they're just wonderful. Wonderful church,

1:01:13

wonderful supportive community. We've had people utter

1:01:15

prophetic words over as I don't know

1:01:17

why we didn't get caught up in

1:01:19

it, except that after we moved to

1:01:21

Philadelphia Police or to go into a

1:01:23

Pc a turret a reformed I'd Hurt

1:01:25

Content press. Ah, and so that sort

1:01:27

of took us out of that cares

1:01:29

many by a bit. and culture though

1:01:31

I still believe all the things I've

1:01:33

always believed about the Holy spirit. One.

1:01:36

Of the things you disclose really transparently

1:01:38

beautifully in the book is the sexual

1:01:40

abuse that you had to experience. Word

1:01:42

figure: twelve years old, And

1:01:45

it was a leader in the church. And

1:01:47

that. Catapults, You later in

1:01:49

life to investigating sexual abuse. you did

1:01:52

amazing reporting about the abuse of the

1:01:54

chemical camps and you see a link

1:01:56

between the way the oven Zola to

1:01:59

church has had. Posture toward

1:02:01

abusers. And. It's posture toward

1:02:03

authoritarian political leaders like Donald Trump. Is

1:02:05

there a link between those things? his?

1:02:07

They're both interwoven throughout your book. But

1:02:10

I'm curious if you've done enough reflection

1:02:12

on your time in those worlds to.

1:02:15

See. Some connection between them. Yeah

1:02:17

exactly Know I am baffled by

1:02:20

it And Sky As you know,

1:02:22

David is a very great am.

1:02:25

I that these women who can analyze

1:02:27

all of these things and probably come

1:02:29

up with better conclusions and I I

1:02:31

can't that like in my story. I've

1:02:34

just noticed that there is a different

1:02:36

posture so it seems like like a

1:02:38

Ninety Eight when they were opposed to

1:02:40

the power of Bill Clinton and the

1:02:42

way that he utilized it against Monica

1:02:44

Lewinsky and other women. Seems. Like

1:02:46

that would be the same as Tom. You.

1:02:49

Know, like if I could see that

1:02:51

out and say yes and churches teach

1:02:53

us to obey mail authority figures or

1:02:55

whatever. that wasn't true in the nineties

1:02:57

and are male authorities here with they'll

1:02:59

plan so I have no idea. I

1:03:01

think it's basically people do what they

1:03:03

want to do is it benefits them

1:03:05

and if it reflects poorly on their

1:03:07

tribe, they're not about that. lies and

1:03:09

they don't like you calling and out.

1:03:11

They tell you a troublemaker so I'm

1:03:13

not exactly sure. Late

1:03:16

late in the book you have this kind

1:03:18

of heart wrenching got run scene scene where

1:03:20

you call up the pastor who. Was

1:03:24

overseeing the church where you had been abused

1:03:26

because you discover that he may have known

1:03:28

about what this other leader of the church

1:03:30

had been doing. And sure enough he did.

1:03:32

And turns out a lot of people in

1:03:34

the community knew that there was this serial

1:03:36

sexual abuse or in the community that had

1:03:39

harmed you as well. And

1:03:41

part of what he says. Inexpensive.

1:03:43

Explaining why he didn't do more to intervene

1:03:45

was well, This. Abusers doing

1:03:47

good work for the gospel. And.

1:03:50

When. You invested Kennecott. You kind of

1:03:53

got that same justification that these

1:03:55

abusers were doing really good work

1:03:57

for the gospel. And then when

1:03:59

you didn't. The People about or talk to

1:04:01

your colleagues and friends in the Republican Party

1:04:03

about Donald Trump. It's a while but he's

1:04:05

gonna do good things are he's gonna get

1:04:07

the right judges or is going to stop.

1:04:10

Some liberal policies that we disagree with

1:04:12

and in all that feels like. The.

1:04:15

Mission over road, everything else.

1:04:18

The. Mission of defeating the liberals are the

1:04:20

mission of advancing the gospel and every

1:04:22

kind of pot. So much into the

1:04:25

mission language in the church, though it's

1:04:27

actually clouded our moral judgments. I mean,

1:04:29

I think so. I think you that inarguable.

1:04:31

Except that he had such a devil's deal

1:04:33

you know, like it isn't actually works like

1:04:35

you've got Pete New Minute can a Coke

1:04:38

cans. He's. Really do in a

1:04:40

great job presenting the gospel of people while

1:04:42

sodomized thing them and it is not ideal

1:04:44

you can make and then it like for

1:04:46

example i can't account camps you know just

1:04:48

says stay on that for a second Their

1:04:50

people are always like. Oh the

1:04:52

theology there are so rich and you know

1:04:54

people. com and a does come to know

1:04:56

Jesus in any way and it's like video

1:04:59

being taught by people who are okay with.

1:05:01

Lies. Deception. Rapes,

1:05:05

Cover. Up and Da's I mean it's

1:05:07

so baffling is not like you have

1:05:09

like a slight the alley out you

1:05:11

know I think I believe an infant

1:05:13

baptism. I think I believe in a

1:05:15

believers baptism You You know that's like

1:05:17

within the margin of like normal christianity

1:05:19

said violates when the top ten in

1:05:21

terms of the ten commandments like thou

1:05:23

shalt not life Usually the theology a

1:05:25

suspicious but yes that's the deal that

1:05:27

they say. They say all these people

1:05:29

are so magnanimous and they're so magnetic

1:05:31

in they're doing so much for the

1:05:33

gospel. but there and I ads. And

1:05:35

it is not a deal that they need

1:05:37

to make and it makes the whole thing

1:05:40

very theologically suspicious which is what the so

1:05:42

jarring for me because everyone he taught me

1:05:44

about christianity with like. Ah,

1:05:47

Problematic like I sort of came to. That's

1:05:50

when I was on the phone with that

1:05:52

cinnamon. My passer. My hometown passer, whom I

1:05:54

love. I.

1:05:57

Call. Them and taught him. And thirty years.

1:06:00

He. Er, he was out in the field and I

1:06:02

can hear the tractor in the background. And

1:06:05

I I I was like eyes.

1:06:08

You. Know this is Nancy Anderson. It's

1:06:10

been a. Someone. Tell

1:06:12

me you knew about this abuse did you And he

1:06:14

said well need the. I. Did and

1:06:16

it was so dramatic and so

1:06:18

candid. You know I'm in actually

1:06:20

Sell! Compassion. For

1:06:22

him. Weirdly probably cause I'm screwed up in

1:06:24

a million different ways. But ah, I'm because

1:06:27

he was like, you know that please recall

1:06:29

they didn't do anything about it. He said

1:06:31

I thought about shooting him. I.

1:06:34

May be s it have ah you know

1:06:36

any was like all of the things that

1:06:38

he said that he tried to do it

1:06:40

just didn't seem like there is. it s

1:06:42

a loose and by one of the solutions

1:06:45

would have been not to let him teach

1:06:47

me by case wells war that would have

1:06:49

been one easy easy thing that yeah so

1:06:51

disheartening I'd his heart says that pastor that

1:06:53

preacher and to realize that all the people

1:06:56

that were in charge of my spiritual state

1:06:58

word. Inadequate. In

1:07:00

ways that. Were pretty significant.

1:07:04

When. You look back over the last couple years, the

1:07:06

me Too movement or boom. Church.

1:07:08

To movements The new conversation we seem

1:07:11

to be having about sexual abuse was

1:07:13

in the church and in the culture.

1:07:15

Are you. What's. Your posture towards as

1:07:17

you feel hopeful or is it is is.

1:07:21

Now the trauma zoc me open but it's not been

1:07:23

solved. What's yours? I feel that you don't where we

1:07:25

are. Yeah. More the latter. I've.

1:07:27

Been pretty depressants eighty thousand and fifteen,

1:07:29

but I don't have a tend to

1:07:32

sully since I just wish that people

1:07:34

cared. I feel like if if you

1:07:36

could just solve the curing part of

1:07:38

it ah it would solve almost everything

1:07:40

you know. For example, people are always

1:07:43

like well I you know what he

1:07:45

is in Canada camps to do what

1:07:47

you think this this Baptists to do

1:07:49

whatever but it's is. It doesn't matter

1:07:51

if people don't actually care, they only

1:07:54

care about like say if Harvey Weinstein

1:07:56

or Bill Clinton or. Someone outside their

1:07:58

tribe is a rapist. They're all

1:08:00

about that. The Catholics, they're all about

1:08:02

the Catholics. mean I having a sexual

1:08:04

abuse problem that night, Canada cancer not

1:08:07

bad does not the deacon not me,

1:08:09

no pastor, bill or whatever in South

1:08:11

it's very hard to get people to

1:08:13

see outside of their tribal lines. Regrettably

1:08:15

which is yielding. Is it Me? Or

1:08:18

that's a big theme in your book, as well

1:08:20

as the tribal lines in this posture that is

1:08:22

there within the tribe. They can do no wrong.

1:08:25

and if they're outside the tribe, it seems like

1:08:27

they can do no right. Speaking.

1:08:29

Of late in the book this is page two fifty

1:08:32

six if we can read your own words for yeah

1:08:34

which by the way I know as a writer myself

1:08:36

I just one. So you are a beautiful right? The

1:08:38

an idea of that's that. Is not

1:08:40

news to you because you've been a ghost

1:08:42

writer and that's where the title comes from

1:08:45

and you've written bestselling books. But wow, this

1:08:47

is a is a page flipper and that

1:08:49

was fantastic. Sumi read your own words. Bachelorettes

1:08:51

you said Throughout my life, I desperately wanted

1:08:53

to identify the good people and the bad

1:08:55

people so I could walk more confidently among

1:08:58

them. Befriending the good ones, avoiding the bad

1:09:00

ones, I'd categorize people into

1:09:02

tribes according to their political views, their

1:09:04

church attendance, and they're voting patterns, but

1:09:06

this line was fuzzier than I originally

1:09:09

believed. Earlier.

1:09:11

In your career as a ghost writers, you

1:09:13

are doing a lot of political speech writing.

1:09:15

The senses are helping them come up with

1:09:17

zingers and Fox News, everything else and. You.

1:09:20

Kind of reveled a degree in labeling

1:09:22

people outside the tribe when you are

1:09:24

in that phase of your career. Writing.

1:09:28

Those those one liners and and

1:09:30

the different are talking points for

1:09:32

conservative pundits. Was.

1:09:35

Exciting. Or invigorating or fun

1:09:37

for you about that label.

1:09:40

Lean and Categorizing of People

1:09:42

Advertise: Sell.

1:09:44

My spiritual gifts to sarcasm I

1:09:47

this is not listed at First

1:09:49

guarantee and I am just. I

1:09:51

just love to make Charles. I'd

1:09:53

love to speak hyperbolically. Ah, there

1:09:56

is something is I'd say air

1:09:58

and slightly sinister about. Idea that

1:10:00

you kid stigmatize them. My instead

1:10:02

of talking to them about their

1:10:04

dogma or their beliefs he can

1:10:06

talk. You can just stigmatize them

1:10:08

and make them. you know, make

1:10:10

people just not listen to them

1:10:12

because of that same so never

1:10:15

something sinister. very sinister way. There's

1:10:17

something very fine about. You

1:10:19

know, putting somebody on a skill in

1:10:21

front of him up on a pan.

1:10:23

I've read all of you know Fox

1:10:25

news though, watchers seeing it you know

1:10:27

like it's fine. It's fine to insult

1:10:29

people. It's fun to make clever I

1:10:32

jokes about issues that you really do

1:10:34

care about that would I was doing

1:10:36

was in. this is a concession. This

1:10:38

is not reflect well on me. I'm

1:10:40

I was disparaging people. I was taking

1:10:42

this crazy outliers it outliers and I

1:10:45

was saying with this is how Liberals

1:10:47

are my friends or in our. Would

1:10:49

say you know whatever like I was

1:10:51

is not being fair and what I

1:10:53

realized it's a speak it's out This

1:10:55

reflects. This is like my own thoughts

1:10:57

about myself after I realized that can

1:10:59

occur. Cams wasn't even telling the truth

1:11:01

which is a huge theological tenant that

1:11:04

is it actually do. I also with

1:11:06

violating the Ten Commandments because I was

1:11:08

disparaging people. By. Bearing false

1:11:10

witness against my neighbor. Ah, in my

1:11:12

liberal neighbor, and in the no particular

1:11:14

I don't have any of role neighbors.

1:11:17

Never in any. Ah, but if

1:11:19

I did have a liberal neighbor I

1:11:21

would as you know mischaracterize them are

1:11:23

you know conceivably? and so that's what

1:11:25

I did for my my pundits is

1:11:27

I would make jokes and I would.

1:11:30

Insult. People and I would be

1:11:32

a make you know gross generalization based

1:11:34

on one you know. Illiberal in Topeka

1:11:36

and I realize it is whether Ride

1:11:38

A. I saw it as it's time.

1:11:40

Ah, I'm almost fifty I thought at

1:11:43

the time it was reminiscent of Tip

1:11:45

O'neill and Ronald Reagan. The way they

1:11:47

used to interact were Reagan east and

1:11:49

salt. Tip O'neill even his weight. Ah,

1:11:52

I'm A and I you know if they really

1:11:54

went after each other, but after Reagan was shy.

1:11:56

Tip O'neill. Was the first person in

1:11:59

it in his room. Praying the Twenty

1:12:01

Third Psalm with him I saw it.

1:12:03

or political Acrimony wizard of like it

1:12:05

delivered with a wink. I

1:12:07

and I was thinking I was like oh

1:12:09

this is that this is way politics is

1:12:11

he a sort of have this morality for

1:12:14

this is how I act in the in

1:12:16

the you know with my friends I as

1:12:18

hers and is how I act in the

1:12:20

car line and then politics though it ain't

1:12:22

beanbag and so how he says eat out

1:12:24

participating in that and then I was I

1:12:26

when a minute there's no like provision in

1:12:29

the bible with an asterisk that as well

1:12:31

as you want to bear false witness against

1:12:33

your neighbor as long as as that their

1:12:35

democrats at school you know there. Was an

1:12:37

and so I we had to add to change.

1:12:41

So. I maybe I sure as your

1:12:43

spurs Augustine because I feel that. I

1:12:45

definitely feel that. and I'm I'm. Aware

1:12:48

I'm I'm part of an improv theater because I

1:12:50

enjoy comedy and I like doing that. Kind of

1:12:52

suffers as he can certainly backfire and at mean

1:12:54

trouble. And there have been a few times where

1:12:56

even on this show some of our listeners have

1:12:59

called me out for. Of. A

1:13:02

zinger or a characterization. It was unfair and

1:13:04

so this why wanted to bring up with

1:13:06

you as a recovering. Meal.

1:13:08

Sarcastic commentator. Ah, how do you

1:13:10

avoid making the same error in

1:13:12

the opposite direction now that you're

1:13:14

on the other side of this

1:13:16

and not miss character for mischaracterize.

1:13:19

Your Republican conservative Evans Oleg

1:13:22

omega neighbors that. If.

1:13:24

Be very easy to paint with

1:13:26

a broad brush or dismiss. Would

1:13:29

have you found helpful to keep you from

1:13:31

bearing on that. He knew. He is

1:13:33

nicer that I've done it very well but ah

1:13:35

and some people have called me out on it.

1:13:37

So that's one thing is I know that all

1:13:40

everyone is listening and trying to keep me honest.

1:13:42

Ah let me, the main thing is that everybody

1:13:44

that I know here pretty much as a Trump

1:13:46

supporter Lighten L may seem like he has not

1:13:48

like I'm. On. An island

1:13:51

and I don't come in contact with

1:13:53

some supporters you know and my natural

1:13:55

habitats. Everybody that I know is he.

1:13:57

I just love them. Mean. I like

1:13:59

there. They're my friends or people I hang out with. Their

1:14:01

in my small group. their my. Family.

1:14:04

You know, like it is at it's love them so

1:14:06

much and i really bent over backwards in the book.

1:14:08

Sky. Because I was. Riding.

1:14:11

Slowly and carefully and I was

1:14:13

able to control my impulses. Their.

1:14:16

I think I characterize every one that I

1:14:18

wrote about very well. I'm the his eyes

1:14:20

so now and I'm doing my interviews as

1:14:22

when I when I get a little spicy

1:14:24

and selsey. Ah but I think I've done

1:14:26

okay so far. I've

1:14:29

You've also documented just the way your

1:14:32

engagement. During those years where you and

1:14:34

David were feeling marginalized by your community

1:14:36

you talked about how a lot of

1:14:38

no I don't know how many but

1:14:40

progressive liberals reached out to you. sure

1:14:42

showed Embassy when you scared about your

1:14:44

sexual abuse in the Washington Post's you

1:14:47

Are are engaged by people across the

1:14:49

political spectrum and that begin to change

1:14:51

began to change your perspective on those

1:14:53

communities As you previously had written the

1:14:55

Zingers about Race Is that continuing Like

1:14:57

what does your community. Look like now is

1:15:00

it a mix you mentioned having lots of mega

1:15:02

friends and neighbors and stuff but is it still

1:15:04

populated with people on the other side of the

1:15:06

I. It is. Yes, I.

1:15:10

I. Just into it. I cannot tell you

1:15:12

how little I care about politics. I hi,

1:15:14

I'm married and David he's in charge of

1:15:16

the his thoughts and all that. Like, I

1:15:19

think I don't think he needs an Asus

1:15:21

or me. Ah, I just

1:15:23

don't care what he's saying. I don't a

1:15:25

it make so little difference to me about

1:15:27

like people's political positions. it's so boring. you

1:15:30

know it's I know people want to talk

1:15:32

says that are constantly. So I'm always like

1:15:34

this. You know, mentally changing gears when people

1:15:36

start talking about politics are probably that like

1:15:38

a zombie or something less am I didn't

1:15:41

hear a sound interesting? It doesn't matter me

1:15:43

what think people think it's at once, you

1:15:45

can take that off on it. Opens it

1:15:47

up because you can talk to them about

1:15:49

things that are more important than politics. and

1:15:52

I think politics is super important that we

1:15:54

should be engaged and as do not have

1:15:56

the emotional bandwidth to do it anymore. I'm

1:15:58

A I'm does answer. The credit card

1:16:00

checking out of it by it. I

1:16:03

would say that most of my friends.

1:16:05

Now. It's probably just a pretty

1:16:07

good mixture. We. We mentioned early in

1:16:09

the book though, the abuse you experience, but there's

1:16:11

a lot of other trauma. In early

1:16:14

in your life from growing up in

1:16:16

poverty or the the colorful way you

1:16:18

describe your senate family on the mountain.

1:16:20

Yeah, was just. Fantastic.

1:16:22

Are but. A lot of trauma there

1:16:25

as well. Ah, losing your college roommate

1:16:27

in a pretty dramatic way and then

1:16:29

some relationships that you are in early

1:16:31

on that he was says it's so

1:16:33

much. What?

1:16:36

What council you give people who

1:16:39

have those kinds of wounds and

1:16:41

scars in their backgrounds as it

1:16:43

relates to their face? Ah, how.

1:16:46

How's your experience with God and the

1:16:48

development of your face? Helps

1:16:50

you deal with that stuff that

1:16:53

you're carrying from those formative years.

1:16:55

I. Do not Now that carrying

1:16:57

as well and that I wanted

1:16:59

to include that sky because I

1:17:02

think because of the Falling Wraith

1:17:04

and I was reading an article

1:17:06

about Roy Moore's accuser an issue

1:17:09

with someone who with abuse as

1:17:11

a teenager obviously and had gone

1:17:14

on to have several marriages and

1:17:16

divorces. And. She was embarrassed by

1:17:18

that, so she said I didn't feel like

1:17:20

I could come out and accuse Roy Moore

1:17:22

because he's a guides. And.

1:17:24

He so we're at well respected. I'm

1:17:27

in, I'm not a respectable percent is

1:17:29

basically what she said and that hurt

1:17:31

my heart so lives because I also

1:17:33

am not a respectable per se not

1:17:35

even remotely even if you squint and

1:17:38

so I felt like the what happens

1:17:40

is these predators ruin your life. And.

1:17:42

In a point to the fact that your

1:17:44

life is ruined, to disparage you and to

1:17:47

discredit you. And so because of that statement

1:17:49

that she made I was like you know

1:17:51

less, I'm almost fifty. I don't care about

1:17:53

brand management and like in a try to

1:17:55

you know become a theologian or speak it

1:17:58

searches or try to become the best. Un

1:18:00

Christian Authors, There's no, but it is.

1:18:02

This is just my story. and my

1:18:05

story included a lot of terrible decisions,

1:18:07

including romantically on in a million other

1:18:09

things. And there's something very beautiful about

1:18:12

the fact. That guy

1:18:14

that can redeemed that. The can redeem

1:18:16

all of that. I'm in. also the

1:18:18

fact that you don't have to six

1:18:20

yourself before you can have an important

1:18:23

cultural voice And so I am not

1:18:25

say ext. I have not emotionally processed

1:18:27

either, my abuse, some of my terrible

1:18:29

disease and ah but. In.

1:18:32

This untidiness. I present myself and people

1:18:34

can listen to the story or not.

1:18:36

they can determine if it's as resonates

1:18:39

with them or not that I just

1:18:41

wanted to tell my story without necessarily

1:18:43

being preachy like and therefore what you

1:18:46

should do your liberal neighbor is to

1:18:48

make a casserole. Or enough. Whatever.

1:18:51

You know, like I just feel like we

1:18:53

just need to deal with these other, honestly,

1:18:55

interact with each other honestly, candidly and lovingly,

1:18:58

And we have that within our power. You.

1:19:00

Know not very many of us can

1:19:02

issue chains on a on a a

1:19:05

policy level. Like you

1:19:07

know, somebody like David, he writes about things

1:19:09

the him some lawmakers might read it. Whatever.

1:19:11

I'm not in that category and I don't

1:19:13

care about it. I'm happy to see that

1:19:16

to other people who are more informed on

1:19:18

this Ama three times college dropout so I'm

1:19:20

not presenting myself as of a. Political

1:19:23

expert either. Well.

1:19:25

As you know, very close in age of things. I'm

1:19:27

approaching sixty and I don't know if it's the same

1:19:29

for everybody, but it does feel like I'm getting

1:19:31

the the age where. Is.

1:19:34

It just the idea of brand management or keeping up.

1:19:36

The. The appearances is so exhausting. Have you

1:19:38

been doing it so long as you to berlin

1:19:40

height as I don't wanna care anymore? I'm just

1:19:42

going to be who I am. I'm going to

1:19:45

do what I do, ominous, share. When I share,

1:19:47

I'm going to tell the story and. But.

1:19:50

People receive it or not receive. Maybe it's

1:19:52

just a matter of time and I'm you.

1:19:54

Wrote this at a time in your life

1:19:56

where you are ready to and hopefully people

1:19:59

receive it well. Before we

1:20:01

wrap up, a lot of people are aware that

1:20:03

he not too long ago, you were diagnosed with

1:20:05

a significant form of breast cancer and I've gotten

1:20:07

little updates from David here in there and he

1:20:09

shared a little bit on our French Friday's how

1:20:12

you Doing but how are you doing. I

1:20:14

cry every time. Someone as man so

1:20:16

sorry I am. I'm okay.

1:20:19

I played take up all this morning

1:20:21

with my neighbors and I showed them

1:20:23

his boss both that liberals and conservatives

1:20:25

ah that hit some holy smackdown on

1:20:28

the people. Now I love the bicycle

1:20:30

every day I get of act three

1:20:32

games a day like I'm more active

1:20:34

than you would want which is crazy

1:20:36

because I'm experiencing something called the red

1:20:39

Devil ah with his ex emailed this

1:20:41

is as brutal form of chemo and

1:20:43

so it's really awful. Hand.

1:20:46

My. Body is doing things that. Are

1:20:49

a shockingly disruptive and by I'm still able

1:20:51

to play the couple every day. Pretty my

1:20:54

it's I'm at get one where it's he's

1:20:56

and and I have surgery than I have

1:20:58

radios and so I've got some eighty double

1:21:01

hockey sticks to. It. For it's here. But.

1:21:04

I'm okay. Well. We'll

1:21:06

be praying for you and grateful for

1:21:08

your willingness to not just write this

1:21:10

book, but even do interviews Like says,

1:21:13

in the midst of what you guys

1:21:15

are or juggling and. Is.

1:21:18

That authenticity and transparency. I hope ministers, other

1:21:21

people and and your model not only have

1:21:23

been open about them. so if you've been

1:21:25

through but the softer currently going through and

1:21:27

them and I hope people see the presence

1:21:29

of god and that know. I I did.

1:21:31

The benefit of the bark is that

1:21:34

actually believe this. Ah each isn't as

1:21:36

one of the things is that they

1:21:38

thought isn't tall and right cancer diagnosis?

1:21:40

was it like some? I mean if

1:21:43

he read the blog is so cell

1:21:45

with size freaking dramatic things that happen.

1:21:47

The kids are they he'd be like

1:21:49

okay yeah of course that would happen

1:21:51

but I believe that God is in

1:21:54

control of it. I really believe that

1:21:56

he like it's a very close to

1:21:58

God. It's a very long. The I

1:22:00

feel very involved by care. Ah,

1:22:03

I don't feel angry at God.

1:22:05

I feel like this is just

1:22:07

ah and extenuating of the of

1:22:10

the book which is that.has you

1:22:12

and you don't necessarily control the

1:22:14

consequences of your actions because Aegis.

1:22:17

Trust guide and he he controls

1:22:19

that. And there's liberty and that.

1:22:23

That. The So This one of these

1:22:25

I really appreciated wrote the book it

1:22:27

is. We mentioned all the stories that

1:22:29

you share in your early adulthood about

1:22:31

really encountering gardens remarkable ways. And.

1:22:34

You can see how those experiences

1:22:36

gave you an David the capacity

1:22:38

to endured challenges, winner, his deployment

1:22:40

to Iraq or losing of friends

1:22:42

and community. and twenty Fifteen, sixteen

1:22:45

and beyond. and and now with

1:22:47

this cancer diagnosis. But you know

1:22:49

it's here's what I really prefer:

1:22:51

Sabanci. It's not Oh God does

1:22:53

wonderful things in his in our

1:22:55

life and it's hard. But noom.

1:22:58

Here, take the wheel Jesus and everything's gonna

1:23:00

be okay. like in the in the Mississippi

1:23:03

stories you share your really honest about how

1:23:05

much you struggled and how difficult it was

1:23:07

and how you failed at times. And so

1:23:10

it's the. The. Paradox of both.

1:23:12

Yes, I believe God is here and I'm

1:23:14

still a screw up in the midst of

1:23:16

all that that celts so. Not. As

1:23:18

authentic that. Liberating.

1:23:20

That. I also can trust God is

1:23:22

here and also. Not. Live

1:23:25

that way all the time and that's

1:23:27

just reality. Yeah, Yeah, I think I

1:23:29

think there's something about that that is that

1:23:31

if we can embrace it. Because

1:23:34

one of the problems, this is the reason

1:23:36

keep biting my head up against all these

1:23:38

Chris institutions over an hour now. Where is

1:23:40

that? No one can admit that they do.

1:23:42

Stefan. Ryan. You now into

1:23:44

one. It is sort of modeled as much

1:23:46

as I did so much wrong. especially as

1:23:48

in why does writing life you know in

1:23:50

terms of owning their lives and making people

1:23:52

drank, liberal terrorists and all that like. that

1:23:55

was what I did as I've sort of

1:23:57

money to lead with that but also any.

1:23:59

It's not like. Otherwise

1:24:01

I'm this amazing virtuous percent eighty

1:24:03

know she's like I'm just a

1:24:05

person I trust. Died it looks

1:24:07

weird. sometimes it looks clumsy. Sometimes

1:24:09

I'm a huge mistake, sometimes bit

1:24:11

me. And how much fun is

1:24:13

it that we serve a guy

1:24:15

who is so much better and

1:24:17

bigger and more generous? And you

1:24:19

know it, It didn't that you

1:24:21

know that they are pettiness. Are

1:24:24

pettiness is no match for

1:24:26

his generosity of spirit and

1:24:28

you know he says so

1:24:30

loving and he he has

1:24:32

his own. I also miss

1:24:35

like there's mischievous. In Out

1:24:37

like it's like.is. Seriously

1:24:39

mysterious. You know, like what the heck? Like?

1:24:41

what is he up to you? I don't

1:24:43

get it. I don't get it. I don't

1:24:45

get any of it. But I know that

1:24:47

I trust him. I

1:24:50

just see a lake in. That doesn't

1:24:52

mean that I won't die of cancer,

1:24:54

it just means that I trust him

1:24:56

and their says Liberty and that. A

1:24:59

I say I can't find a very. Beautiful. For.

1:25:02

A man, a man and so's the book.

1:25:04

Mass you. Thank you for been with us.

1:25:06

Thank you for writing this book I can't

1:25:08

recommend is enough. Again it's called Go Stood

1:25:11

in American Story. I'm. I.

1:25:13

Do. This. Was better than I expected

1:25:15

it to be in. I expected it to be

1:25:17

good also. com thank you so much for rain

1:25:19

and for sharing. Thousand. You so

1:25:22

much for having me on this find. Gases is so

1:25:24

fine. I am going to get to see the chair.

1:25:26

Back to David next week that this was fun! While

1:25:28

you're welcome back anytime assess. As a sounds great! Thank

1:25:30

you so much for having me. The. Holy

1:25:33

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1:25:35

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