0:00

One of the biggest stories this week and is

0:03

breaking, you know, news

0:05

every single

0:06

day, even today, is

0:08

this story. It was like

0:10

something out of a disaster movie. A

0:12

massive train derailment led to an explosion,

0:15

causing ominous plumes of smoke

0:17

to billow over the quiet village of east

0:19

Palestine.

0:20

Five of the train cars were carrying

0:23

Vinyl chloride. A highly

0:25

combustible chemical linked to

0:27

a higher risk of some kinds

0:29

of cancers. Crews conducted

0:32

controlled release of the carcinogen to

0:34

reduce the risk of an explosion.

0:37

The vital chloride in particular is

0:39

highly flammable, and crews ignited it

0:41

to burn it off in what they called a

0:43

controlled environment. That in

0:45

turn produced a huge plume of smoke and

0:48

with it serious health and environmental

0:50

concerns.

0:51

Now residents are reluctantly returning

0:53

with deep anxiety about the lasting

0:55

impact of the chemical leak on their

0:57

health.

0:57

Ashley McCollum, who shot this video of

0:59

the February third accident, so she's afraid

1:02

to move back home. You can smell

1:04

it near. And even this

1:05

morning, when I took my KIDS'S GOAL, PEOPLE

1:07

ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT HEALTH ISSUES AND

1:09

THERE ARE URGENT QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THEIR

1:11

CONCERNS WERE HANDLED. I would be

1:13

drinking the bottled water and I

1:15

would be continuing

1:20

to find out what the tests were showing as far

1:22

as the air.

1:24

That ain't no

1:25

storm cloud. That's the

1:28

For me, Palynziq. There,

1:31

controlled burn. You could

1:33

wait

1:33

and you could've called the tanks.

1:38

You could've transferred the contents. You

1:40

didn't have to do this. You did it because

1:42

of time and money. The

1:44

States Department of Natural Resources reports

1:47

nearly eight miles of waterways

1:48

in the Ohio River are contaminated. You

1:51

guys scooping out all the dead ones? Drive.

1:55

At least thirty five hundred fish have died,

1:57

and some residents say their cats and chickens

1:59

have died. Amanda Brecher's

2:01

was going to feed her five hens

2:03

and rooster this morning when

2:05

she discovered them all lifeless, practically

2:08

in the same position with no SIGNS

2:11

OF A PREDATOR ENTERING THEIR INCLOSURE. I'M

2:14

BEYOND UBSET AND KITE PANIC. IF YOU CAN

2:16

DO THIS TO CHICANS AND ONE imagine what's gonna

2:18

do to us in twenty

2:19

years. There's been no independent testing.

2:22

Yet, things are dying, and this

2:24

community just doesn't feel

2:26

they're being

2:27

seen, they're being heard.

2:30

I would be alert and and

2:32

concerned, but think I would

2:34

probably be back in my house.

2:37

You know, as I was watching that and and

2:39

I think a lot of the questions around this

2:42

story right now is this idea

2:44

of a controlled release for

2:46

controlled burn. They obviously decided

2:48

to light all of these toxic chemicals on

2:51

fire to somehow burn them out, then putting

2:53

it in the atmosphere so that not only

2:55

that that one space, but now, you know,

2:57

surrounding states have got to be concerned of

2:59

what's happening. And then when we look to our government,

3:02

you know, why is it you decide from?

3:04

Why can't we get answers? Who made this decision?

3:06

What was the rush? All of this, you

3:09

know, are the questions that are are taking place

3:11

in in causing town hall meetings that

3:13

were going on, but I am done listening

3:16

to news in their perspective. I'm not sure where

3:18

it's at. And so luckily because

3:20

of your support we now are able to

3:22

send in our own people. We sent Ben in

3:24

one of our reporters in in

3:26

our favorite cameraman on the team.

3:29

Full PPE, we even reached out

3:31

to professionals to ask what he should be doing

3:33

when he went there. This

3:35

is some of the footage that he

3:37

brought back and this story from our perspective.

3:40

Take a look at this.

3:46

I do live here in East Palestine. I've

3:48

lived here all my life. I am from East Palestine,

3:50

Ohio. I live about point six

3:52

seven from ground zero is what I'm

3:54

calling it.

3:55

I live just across the street

3:57

from the intersection where all this took place, so I watch

4:00

it off from my run

4:01

window. It was in my house. I was cooking

4:03

dinner. It was like any, you know, regular

4:05

night. And I heard

4:07

all the sirens. And I went

4:08

outside, and we've seen the big ploom of back.

4:10

The police came through eleven o'clock

4:13

that night, told us we could evacuate.

4:16

Wasn't that important. So

4:18

we stayed home that night. My supposed residents

4:20

didn't know that it was toxic hazardous

4:23

materials and we're out there, you know, watching what's

4:25

going on with, you know, kids on

4:27

our hips and whatever and to find out

4:29

days late that we were standing in basically

4:32

a cloud of toxic material. It's just

4:35

it's scary. When the

4:37

controlled release happened, was sleeping

4:39

in my bed and they

4:41

said, you know, you got an hour and a half, a few

4:43

hours to grab everything and leave. We were

4:46

told to emergency evacuate because

4:48

something was about to explore in that you had

4:50

to leave a risk dying. That's when the

4:52

grim nature of the problem really

4:55

sunk in. And for the first time since

4:57

it

4:57

started, I was actually scared.

4:59

I have a limited background in environmental

5:01

management. I have a Bigtree in it, but

5:03

I I have little knowledge as dangerous thing

5:05

sometimes because I realize what happened

5:07

here and some people might

5:09

not understand the scope and magnitude

5:12

of of special the

5:14

the controlled release. think there's

5:16

a lot of uncertainty right now for a lot

5:18

of people. People just aren't sure what's

5:20

in their water, what's in the air, and it causes

5:23

a lot of things idea. People just wanna know if it's

5:25

safe to be in their

5:26

homes. I'm a mama five boys

5:29

and I actually have a one and a two year old

5:31

and they are just brand new and I'm just so

5:33

terrified.

5:34

I can't even give them a bath since this has

5:36

happened. My little sister has horrible

5:39

asthma. She's been struggling. She had a user and

5:41

ailer, but over twenty times in the last couple of

5:43

days. That's that's a lot for

5:44

her. I've had a terrible headache. Me

5:46

and four of my family members are all covered

5:48

in rashes, respiratory, symptoms,

5:50

sinus symptoms, headaches, blurred

5:52

vision, hearing is

5:55

probably related to the sinus issues

5:57

that they're

5:57

having, and it's sort of the day after the

5:59

derailment, so February report. You know,

6:01

it it could be anything, but it also could be

6:03

the hundred thousand gallons of hazardous material

6:06

that was spilled out, you know, not

6:08

and half a mile from my home. Something that's

6:10

alarming for me is just the change

6:12

in narrative that we've been seeing from

6:15

different officials They're backtracking

6:18

every day. It's safe. It's not safe. It's

6:20

safe. It's not safe. So that's

6:22

concerning. What I'm most worried about

6:24

is this being brushed under

6:26

the rug by Norfolk Norfolk. They're

6:29

the big company they should be leading the way.

6:31

You haven't heard a sight in our hair then they

6:33

ghosted

6:34

us. The

6:34

cleanup, the water, the

6:37

supplies for everyone, they should be paying out

6:39

of pocket for

6:40

this, especially with how much the company's worth.

6:42

It's supposed to clean up before they leave.

6:44

There's no way in hell it's gonna be cleaned up. I guess

6:46

one of my biggest concerns for East Palestine is

6:49

If people do get sick down the road, are they gonna

6:51

have the help that they need to get

6:53

better? Who is going to start paying

6:55

the medical bills? And when are

6:57

we going to find out what exactly is

6:59

causing the kids to be sick and how long is

7:01

this going to

7:02

last? Is it going to be a forever thing? Is she going

7:04

to have perfect hearing again? Is her vision gonna

7:06

stay blurry? I was had

7:08

my camera with my daughter and was threatened to be

7:10

arrested by the National

7:13

Guard. When I was in a public place,

7:15

on a public easement, you know, the one

7:17

reporter here was called off in handcuffs

7:20

by the National Guard and from the county

7:22

sheriff's

7:22

department. We're supposed to have a town hall

7:24

this evening. Just found out

7:27

that the format for that's changing. It's

7:29

not gonna be a town

7:30

hall. It's gonna be table set up

7:32

that we can go and ask questions.

7:34

That doesn't fly. I don't see it going

7:36

into a positive direction. I see what

7:38

they were offered tonight. A thousand dollars payoff

7:40

from people that weren't a one mile radius. Those

7:42

residents should be made aware every

7:45

day what's going on. You can see

7:47

this line is almost a half a mile down the

7:49

road. What does that tell you? People don't know what's

7:51

going on. I'm questioning everything

7:54

because I wonder

7:56

if the evacuation was lifted

7:58

so the trains could run more because

8:01

less than an hour after that

8:04

evacuation was lifted, the trains are coming through like

8:06

nonstop. They couldn't come through here because there's an evacuation

8:08

so. It was an odd benefit that

8:10

was for the railroad. All we want

8:12

is we want answers. We want it taken

8:14

care of, cleaned up, and we want to know

8:16

one hundred percent without a doubt that it

8:18

is safe for us and our children. It's

8:21

important not to listen to everything that the

8:23

media is putting out. This isn't a poor

8:25

bodog trash

8:26

town. It is a very well put together

8:29

town that is secure for each other that are trying

8:32

to make the best of a bad situation. I just

8:34

think it's gonna be devastating to this town

8:36

for

8:36

decades. I I hope I'm wrong, but I

8:38

don't think I am. It's

8:42

really upsetting to hear

8:45

residents talking and saying

8:47

things like we are not being told what's

8:49

really going on. They started to burn

8:52

outside of my house before they asked

8:54

me to evacuate. Are you kidding me?

8:57

You know, and then we hear stories

8:59

about, you know, one of those people saying I

9:01

was, you know, shooting video of it

9:03

and they threatened to arrest me. They did arrest

9:06

a reporter that was trying to report on this folks.

9:08

Do we live in China? I mean, is this the United

9:11

States of America? We have freedom of speech.

9:13

We have freedom of the press. And if I can't

9:15

pull out a video camera standing on the street

9:17

and show what is happening, I don't care if the president

9:19

of United States is in the shot. That is

9:22

our freedom. That is the first amendment right.

9:25

We've got to start really calling

9:27

every representative we have and say

9:30

this idea that people cannot

9:32

be documenting what's happening. I'm here in the United

9:34

States of America are not allowed to put it on

9:36

social media spaces or tell whoever

9:38

they want, what they see and what their

9:41

opinion is, We are falling

9:43

apart here as far as the dream

9:45

is concerned in the United States of America and

9:47

what our founding fathers dreamed this nation

9:49

was supposed to be. And remember,

9:51

They promised us and they said, look, if you

9:54

ever lose a free press, if you ever lose

9:56

your right to free speech, if you lose

9:58

that fourth branch of government, which

10:00

is the press, which is allowed to ask any

10:02

uncomfortable question they want. If

10:04

you start arresting reporters, then

10:06

this is game over. It's over. The dream

10:08

of this country falling apart. So many

10:10

of the stories that are happening this week.

10:12

And really, obviously, over the last couple

10:14

of years, really has got to make

10:17

us think it is time to get in and

10:19

get our government back

10:21

to where it belongs, which is working

10:23

for us on our leash. I'm not

10:25

on your leash. You don't get to tell me what I do

10:27

with my life. You don't get to tell me what I get to shoot with

10:29

my video camera. I tell you what

10:31

you're allowed to do. You work for me

10:34

and that's the truth. We've got to get back

10:36

to it now. There's a lot to this story,

10:38

but I want to get to the part of it. I'm not hearing

10:40

a lot about, which is what about these toxic

10:42

chemicals? What are they? What would

10:45

be the best way to protect these people? And

10:47

are they protecting themselves appropriately? Is

10:49

it time to go back to their homes? Should they

10:51

be, as you see in those videos, just standing

10:53

in line, walking around, without any

10:55

mask or whatever. Obviously, our reporter

10:58

was one of the only ones there, like, you

11:00

know, with full protective

11:02

gear So to get to the bottom of many of

11:04

the questions that I have, I am joined

11:07

now by our our favorite OSHA

11:09

specialist, Tammy Clark, and Kristen

11:11

Meghan Thank you too for joining

11:13

me for this very important conversation.

11:17

Yes. Well, hello, and thank you, Dell, for having

11:19

us. It's always a pleasure to be with you. Yes.

11:21

Thank you. This is a topic that, you

11:23

know, we've been very vocal past three years

11:25

about, again, improper messaging, improper

11:27

control measures, and lack of conveying

11:30

a proper risk. So at

11:32

this point, we're starting to realize these Alphabet

11:34

agencies either need to be privatized or

11:36

stop allowing themselves to be controlled by

11:39

lobbyists and bureaucrats.

11:40

Yeah, it's out. It's basically,

11:41

they've been captured just like the medical systems

11:44

that we watched over COVID. Right? It's a regulatory

11:46

capture. It's amazing

11:48

as I watched this footage, and I think

11:50

that we couldn't get on planes without

11:52

masks. Couldn't walk and rest restaurants. All

11:55

these unnamed things you've been on to the show talking

11:57

about Bigtree, to restaurants, take it off.

11:59

Now you can sit down all of this, you know, circus

12:01

themes going on. Now you have toxic

12:03

chemicals floating in the air, and

12:06

as far as I see in all of that video footage,

12:08

no one is even wearing a simple

12:10

mask or respirator of any kind.

12:13

And my understanding is even the people cleaning

12:15

up the site aren't wearing PPE,

12:17

which makes me think about, you know,

12:19

Chernobyl or even when we

12:21

saw the nuclear meltdown

12:24

in Japan at Fukushima, These

12:26

governments, I think actually say to the

12:28

workers, don't wear any protective

12:30

gear because you're going to scare everybody else.

12:33

We see that happening in communist nations

12:35

And I'm wondering, is that happening now? Do

12:37

you I mean, from your perspective, should

12:40

these people be out there without any

12:42

protected gear? Let's just start with those

12:44

that are working the site and

12:46

digging through this rubble and pulling

12:48

dead fish out of the river. When I see

12:50

footage of them not wearing any protective

12:53

gear as an OSHA specialist that's

12:55

designed in knowing when someone should

12:57

be wearing protective

12:58

gear, what is your opinion on that? Yeah.

13:01

Well, I'll start because, Ben,

13:04

actually, your camera person on the ground there

13:06

reached out to me yesterday, and

13:08

we had a good conversation about PPE, and

13:10

he told me there is nobody wearing any

13:13

PPE, even the people who are doing the cleanup.

13:15

They're

13:15

-- Right. -- he said they're not even wearing a handkerchief

13:17

their mouth, they know which as we know wouldn't do anything.

13:19

But the point is nobody is

13:21

wearing any protective equipment. And

13:24

we know as experts who teach

13:27

train, educate, you can't even

13:29

put a shovel in the ground and

13:31

unearth any contaminated soil

13:34

unless you have been through forty hours

13:36

of what's called Haswhopper training, hazardous

13:38

waste operations and emergency response.

13:40

No contractor can even clean anything

13:43

up. Any EPA contaminated sites

13:45

or brownfields or anything like that unless

13:47

they've had forty hours of training. And then

13:49

it's a full hazmat suit and respirator

13:52

TYVEX suits everything. So there's

13:54

no decontamination process. There's no

13:56

PPE. Even those doing cleanup are

13:59

not being properly protected. But

14:01

we know that this is a very dangerous area.

14:04

And we have heard from people on the ground.

14:06

We've been doing a couple of Twitter spaces and things

14:08

like that. And we know from those in

14:10

the area that their eyes are burning, their

14:13

throats are dry, we've heard in the segment

14:15

that you showed the rashes. People

14:17

having rashes and coughs and

14:20

things like that. We know that they're being exposed

14:22

and yet nobody is in PPE. Now,

14:25

this is the thing that, you know, Bennett actually

14:27

sent us a copy or a photo of

14:30

the respirator that he was wearing and we looked it

14:32

up and it is it's it's

14:34

protective for him. It's protecting him from,

14:36

you know, dual purpose protection, not exactly

14:38

what we would want him to be in, but it is protecting

14:41

him sufficiently to be there on the ground doing

14:43

you know, camera work and things like that.

14:45

But what these cleanup professionals

14:48

need to be wearing is a fully encapsulated

14:50

SCBA, which is self contained breathing apparatus

14:53

Full enclosure, they would actually look

14:55

like they were walking on Mars if they were wearing the

14:57

appropriate equipment. But what would that do?

15:00

That would terrify the people who have

15:02

been told that they can go back into their

15:04

homes and it's safe. I mean,

15:06

to begin with, they weren't evacuated

15:08

before they were exposed. Then they were

15:10

told to shelter in place, but they were not told

15:12

how to shelter in place. They have no education

15:15

or information. It is just egregious. Again,

15:18

more violations, more revisionism,

15:21

more like Kristen said of these Alphabet

15:23

soup agencies that are not following their own

15:25

standards and protocols for liability

15:28

issues. And it's it's actually

15:30

mass negligence, and it's going to lead

15:32

to great harm. Mean,

15:34

I don't know how much you've looked into it,

15:37

but we, you know, we

15:39

we hear about, you know, one

15:41

of the major chemicals this vinyl

15:43

fluoride, I believe it's called. But my understanding

15:45

is that there was other train cars with other

15:47

chemicals. Have you guys are are you

15:50

aware of any other chemicals? And And

15:52

do you have a sense of what these chemicals

15:54

are and and what types of health concerns

15:57

they carry with them?

15:59

So, Del, the

16:01

biggest issue that I had is that

16:04

it's it's multiple. We gotta zoom out for a second

16:06

and look at anytime railcars are transporting

16:08

hazardous materials are supposed to make sure

16:10

that the areas based on population that

16:12

they're going through, the local community, the

16:15

fire department, because not refi department hasn't

16:17

has mattress funded trained team.

16:19

So they had to be aware of the hazard that's coming

16:21

through their town. Based on the amount of cars

16:23

and the amount of cars that had hazardous materials, they

16:26

somehow thought that they did not have to label this

16:28

in the proper hazardous classification. So

16:30

that's issue number one. The second

16:32

is, is I'm so incredibly infuriated.

16:35

I understand the inability

16:37

for a lot of people to understand

16:40

the decision making of why they did a control burn.

16:42

I wasn't there, so I can't Monday morning quarterback,

16:44

but I can tell you doing seabirding response for

16:46

nine years in the military. I responded to

16:48

these issues. I managed the decontamination line

16:51

with Norfolk Southern. In the city of

16:53

Chicago as civilian working for the federal

16:55

government. So you have to

16:57

look at not just instantaneous dose

17:00

But if there's gonna be a greater hazard,

17:03

if that thing was going to be pressurized and

17:05

explode outward, you would have had shards of metals

17:07

and the plume would have gone outward and created

17:09

a greater hazard. So, of course, in

17:12

a situation where you have an event

17:14

like this in perfect world, you want people

17:16

to evacuate but at a minimum with the

17:18

technology we have, there should have been an emergency

17:20

system broadcasted over phones like an ambler

17:23

and a TV to shelter in place,

17:25

seal up your windows, turn off your HVAC

17:27

system. Give people an idea to

17:29

use wet cloths and not put them

17:31

on their face, but kind of you can get wet blankets

17:34

and put them over you. This is what we do in reward

17:36

that war theater. But what I really

17:38

want to in this time that we have, Dell, is

17:40

address the lack of proper response.

17:43

I am seeing that people are saying that they're using

17:45

direct reading instrumentation like multi

17:48

rays and different things through rovers. You

17:50

have to do upstream, downstream, upwind,

17:53

downwind, soil sampling. You

17:55

don't just test instantaneously. You

17:58

have to calculate a TWA, a

18:00

time weighted average, and we are talking

18:02

about cumulative dose and

18:04

synergistic toxicity. And the best

18:06

way for me to convey that to the average person

18:08

is in an occupational setting when we're dealing with

18:10

pathogens noise. Say there's four employees.

18:13

One is using a hammer, one is doing something,

18:15

and they're all creating noise, but it's

18:17

not necessarily at the action limit of eighty

18:19

five DBA. But cumulatively, they're

18:22

going over hundred and twelve and you can have

18:24

hearing loss in that moment. So

18:26

this is the same thing. We are dealing with

18:28

chemicals that came out days later,

18:30

ten days later. These chemicals

18:33

are mutagenic, teretogienic. So

18:36

if you are expected mother, pregnant, or

18:38

nursing, this is extra hazardous to

18:40

you, and they're not

18:42

talking about how these chemicals have the same

18:45

target organs. If they're saying that's

18:47

below the threshold, which they're conflating

18:49

terms because they don't expect you to have resources

18:51

like us to explain this to

18:52

you. Right.

18:53

There are action levels, permissible exposure

18:55

limits, and then there are at

18:57

five parts per million at any dose that is

18:59

instantly IDOH, that is immediately

19:02

dangerous, you can die. And we saw that

19:04

through dogs, cats, foxes,

19:06

chickens, and through aquatic

19:09

life. So I am irate that

19:11

we are not having the community be had

19:13

conveyed information if you were pregnant, nursing,

19:16

using tap water to create

19:19

bottles with formula. You are the

19:21

most at risk COPD asthma. Again,

19:23

exposure groups. Just like we talked about

19:25

through the pandemic. It's not one size. It's all

19:27

you have to do individual health risk assessments.

19:30

This is absolutely criminal. I'm irate

19:32

because I trained for this for twelve years. I

19:34

have extensive response. I'm the person out

19:36

there with a piece of equipment called the Habsite

19:38

that can do direct reading instrumentation.

19:41

And until these levels are actually

19:43

continuously you test until you get

19:46

to the answer you want, then

19:48

you come back. These people are in grave

19:50

risk. I'm not trying to over inflate this, but

19:52

people in my profession aside from us

19:55

today are finally speaking up.

19:57

Tammy, what you know, if you know, for

19:59

those people that, you know,

20:02

are in Ohio right now and

20:04

anywhere near this site, what would

20:06

be your recommendation for them right

20:08

now as far as how they should be handling

20:10

their home, if they're in it, should

20:13

they be wearing, you know, a mask of some

20:15

what is your, you know, from an osha

20:17

perspective? And where are you at?

20:19

What would you advise right now? Because this

20:22

whole thing seems so early. The fact that

20:24

within INSIDE OF TWO WEEKS,

20:26

WE ARE SENDING PEOPLE BACK TO WHAT IS CLEARLY

20:28

AN OPEN INVESTIGATION SITE.

20:31

AS YOU'RE SAYING multiple different

20:33

chemicals. And my question is always,

20:35

what is the, you know, synergistic effect of these

20:37

chemicals mixing with each other, burning with

20:39

each other? I mean, okay, they're in different train

20:41

cars. Have we ever put all these elements

20:43

together in one place? What is that doing?

20:46

But what just for the very basic and

20:48

not I'm not here to try. We don't wanna, like,

20:50

overly alarm people. I don't wanna stress

20:52

them out, but I also, you know,

20:55

think what it would be the minimum

20:57

that I should be doing. Let me just put the government

20:59

aside and the news that's lying to me and not

21:01

warning me of anything What is it

21:03

that I should do right now to

21:05

take care of myself in this situation until

21:08

they really do have the answers?

21:11

Well, that's a great question, Dow.

21:13

And to be honest with you, the exposures

21:15

have already happened. Not that cumulative

21:17

exposures down the road will not continue, because

21:20

that cumulative buildup from

21:22

the exposures is going to cause the

21:24

long term issue. So the acute

21:27

exposure has already happened. So I don't

21:29

wanna scare people, but that's like what's

21:31

happened has already happened. Right. So

21:33

moving forward, if you are able,

21:35

I would tell people this is ground

21:38

zero. If you are at all

21:40

able, I would completely relocate.

21:42

Now I know that that's not possible for some people.

21:45

If you are not able to relocate, and

21:47

that's just absolutely not a possibility for

21:49

you. You need to begin proper clean

21:51

up and that requires proper PPE.

21:54

So they need to be wearing gloves

21:57

when they're touching surfaces. Beautiful gloves.

22:00

And let's remember too that the air that

22:02

they're breathing is still contaminated. We

22:04

are still getting reports from people who

22:06

are saying their eyes are

22:07

burning, their

22:08

throat are tornadoes. He said exactly that.

22:10

He said that he's at a

22:11

So they were turning the water, I guess, trying to

22:13

oxygenate the water. And

22:15

he said he was shooting

22:17

that, at that moment, he left because he

22:19

did feel burning in his eyes. Yes.

22:21

And and people just walking down the street are saying

22:23

that's this is why I told Ben you need to wearing

22:26

chemical goggles. And and

22:28

the the respirator cartridges that he's wearing,

22:30

we looked up, and it is protecting him from multiple

22:33

molecules, gases, things like that. But, you know,

22:35

people need to be decontaminating, and

22:37

they still need to be sheltering in

22:39

place by turning off their HVAC systems,

22:42

and they need to be covering their vents.

22:45

When they're indoors, they need to try to seal,

22:47

like, this is what has irritated us

22:49

and angered us from the beginning. People were

22:51

not evacuated and they were told to shelter in place, but

22:53

they weren't told how to shelter in place and what that

22:55

means and what that looks like. So covering

22:58

vents proper cleaning, proper

23:00

contamination, using proper PPE, the

23:02

butyl gloves, and proper respirators,

23:04

and things like that. Now, the the problem

23:06

is you can't just slap a respirator greater

23:08

on people. Yeah. I mean, that you've gotta

23:10

go through and you've heard us talk about this.

23:13

On this show, you've gotta go through the medical

23:15

clearance, the fit testing, the the fit

23:17

factors and all of that. And sometimes, you know, people

23:19

are not clean shaving. That's one thing I told Ben, make sure

23:21

you're clean shaving every day before you wear that

23:23

respirator. You're not gonna get a proper seal. So if

23:26

you're not wearing the proper PPE, you're not properly

23:28

protected. And now we've got a lot of contaminants

23:31

on all surfaces in all homes

23:33

because people were not told how to shelter in

23:35

place properly. And all of that is

23:37

inside of everybody's homes at this point.

23:40

So babies crawling on the floors. I

23:42

would absolutely not allow babies crawling

23:44

on floors. I would absolutely make sure

23:46

that you are, you

23:47

know, proper vacuuming with a HEPA vacuum.

23:49

I was just gonna say that. I mean, you're vacuuming most

23:52

vacuums are just, like, atomizing this

23:54

stuff back out of your car into the

23:56

air. You're blank.

23:57

Thanks to me. You know, I've had a fire

23:59

in my house. Well, you know, Jen Shelly just

24:01

had her house burned down on Christmas

24:03

Day. When you look when you go through those events, you

24:05

realize Even the things you think

24:07

are safe and okay, everyone

24:10

tells you you've got to get it professionally

24:12

cleaned by people that know what they're doing. Your clothing

24:15

has it in it. Your your wallpaper,

24:17

your, you know, if your kids are touching the walls,

24:19

they're taking these contaminants that

24:21

may have been contained at the site until

24:24

these buffoons decided to light it on fire,

24:26

or maybe that was the right move. I mean, let me ask you that

24:28

really quickly, Megan, because you were

24:30

in the military, You said there are moments

24:32

where you have been involved in the decision

24:35

to, you know, actively burn.

24:37

Why why is that decision

24:39

made? Because to me, this looks

24:41

like BP oil spill. first thing you wanna

24:43

do is hide it and drop it to the bottom of the ocean.

24:46

We can't do an investigation WHAT IS THERE ONCE

24:48

IT'S BURNED. I DON'T KNOW WHO IS MAKING

24:50

THIS DECISION, BUT WHY WITHIN

24:52

THREE DAYS? THAT SEEMS OFFLY QUICK

24:55

There must be some benefits to it. I mean, are

24:57

they worried about gray groundwater, but

24:59

why so quickly and why before you

25:01

could even get it evacuated? What

25:03

are the thoughts that go into deciding

25:06

to burn

25:07

chemicals that are, you know, in

25:09

a situation like this? What is the thinking

25:11

behind that? Well, my first

25:14

thought is the lack of communication to

25:16

the public is not allowing

25:18

me to provide a proper answer, but I

25:20

can tell you that I wasn't

25:22

there, but we're dealing with a very,

25:24

very volatile chemical makeup

25:26

here. I

25:27

can't really

25:27

I think we have a list of some of the chemicals we

25:29

know. Let's just bring that list up that we're aware of

25:31

what we're talking about. This is from the

25:33

EPA, and here is the list. Materials

25:37

related to the incident were observed entering dorm drains,

25:39

multiple rail cars, tankers were observed derailleur

25:41

breach and or on fire that included, but not limited

25:43

to the following materials, Vinyl chloride. Ethylene

25:46

like all monobutile, ether, ethyl,

25:50

ethyl, hexyl, act, act,

25:52

relate, isobutylene and

25:54

butyl acrylate. I have no idea

25:57

what these things do. It

25:59

doesn't sound good.

26:00

Alright. So this

26:01

is air sample. All those

26:02

elements are there. Let's just light them on fire.

26:05

Yeah. Yeah. So a air air sample for

26:07

these different type of contaminants and that's

26:09

another thing is there's too many doctors speaking

26:11

about this and saying it's not bad. Well, unless

26:13

you're an occupational health doctor, please take

26:15

a seat because you don't study this in the average

26:18

community. But we deal with this in

26:20

a military and industrial setting, so these chemicals

26:22

we're very aware with. But what I'm saying is they're very

26:24

volatile. And if you think about when you drop

26:26

like a canister or a pop, how

26:28

it kind of can explode, you know, if you

26:30

shake it, so I need to know

26:32

how press rise these were. And the fire departments

26:34

in the hazmat teams are trained to

26:37

do and figure out, you know, what

26:39

is the risk here? Because, again,

26:41

in a perfect world, you wanna cool them down,

26:44

you sand all these things. We do

26:46

we are not always afforded that luxury to

26:48

do things safer. And that is very honest,

26:50

but I I'm not defending what they did, but I'm saying

26:52

I don't have the data of the direct reading instrumentation

26:54

and how pressurized that was. Mhmm. But if those

26:57

had combusted outward, you would

26:59

have seen massive loss of life because this would

27:01

have been not created in a plume with

27:03

perfect air conditions. It would have been an outward

27:05

burst with an explosion with shrapnel. And

27:08

at the exact breathing zone. So you will have

27:10

instantaneous exposure. But one thing

27:12

I want to say, Dell, and I I totally

27:14

get you that we don't want to alarm people, but we also

27:16

want to be honest and being the risk until

27:19

proper information is shared on the

27:21

type of sampling, which I've already noted that they

27:23

have made mistakes on the sampling You

27:25

have to treat this as ideal age. But

27:27

if you are in your home, please

27:29

take out, be very careful, take

27:32

out your HVAC filters. One that could

27:34

be highly flammable. So I don't know what

27:36

weather is in Ohio, but if you turn your heat on,

27:38

this is gonna recirculate through your house. Put

27:41

them in a trash bag. And when

27:43

the time comes, if there is funds that

27:45

are afforded or there's companies that offer discounts,

27:48

You want to have these tested. The known chemicals

27:50

are known so they can run panels, but they use

27:52

GCMS. It's a gas

27:54

chromatograph, mass spectrometer. They

27:56

can tell you the level. So down the road

27:58

if this is like an aarachovid situation

28:01

or there's litigation and settlement This

28:03

is your evidence for you. You're talking about you you

28:05

want to tally up your evidence right now.

28:07

Right. Right. Yeah. There you go.

28:09

Your HVAC filters, because that is

28:11

the only representative instantaneous

28:14

data on exposure that we

28:15

have. And you need to get those filters out of

28:17

your home anyway because they're just recirculating

28:20

the highest concentrations of contaminants

28:22

that happened early on. So

28:24

I would also tell people in addition,

28:27

change those filters pretty much every

28:29

day if you can for a little while.

28:31

That's all really important information. Again,

28:34

I don't see what the Russia is to get these

28:36

people back into their homes. I mean,

28:38

this is what drives me crazy. We are thinking

28:40

billions of dollars into wars that have nothing

28:43

to do with our nation at all. And we

28:45

can't take care of our own. We are not

28:47

capable of putting people within a

28:49

mile or forget it for a five mile

28:51

radius there to say, We're gonna put you in

28:53

hotels all around the country. We're gonna take care

28:55

of you, fund you. If my tax dollars

28:58

can't do that in a situation like that,

29:00

then I don't know what the point of being taxed

29:02

at all is. This is It just seems

29:05

so egregious to me things that we care

29:07

about and the things that we don't.

29:09

I mean, you know, hotels all over the

29:11

country are are filled with illegal

29:13

aliens. I don't care what your perception

29:16

of that conversation. We can't take

29:18

care of American citizens that are sitting in

29:20

a blast zone of known toxic

29:22

carcinogens and and chemicals. The

29:24

whole story just rigs. And again,

29:27

I just feel like, where is our government

29:29

explaining? What is going on here?

29:32

Last thoughts as as as

29:34

you are watching this take place. What

29:37

is it that, you know, how do we how do we

29:39

deal with these things better? What is it that needs to happen

29:41

in this country and in our

29:43

government, our regulatory agencies?

29:45

Yeah. Well, that's been something that we've been really

29:47

blowing the whistle on for the last three years.

29:51

The inept and corrupt basically,

29:54

fascist collusion between our government,

29:57

our corrupt government officials and agencies

30:00

with the media with big tech,

30:02

with big pharma, all for profit,

30:04

putting the American people in our citizens

30:06

at great risk of harm, and violating

30:08

the number one rule in our profession is

30:11

do not create a greater hazard. So

30:13

we were just listening as we were going over

30:15

some new information, trying to keep up on everything

30:18

that's happening with this we were just

30:20

listening to one of the top experts of

30:22

the EPA

30:23

tell a CNN reporter that

30:26

when it is safe, They will send

30:28

their scientists and their cleanup experts

30:30

in to do their cleaning Look, I have that I

30:32

have that video ready to go. Let's go ahead and

30:34

watch Yeah. Now, fundamentally, I wanna set this up

30:36

just a second because Mhmm. -- I

30:38

was in New York when nine eleven

30:40

happened. I was in New York City. My

30:43

parents raised me probably the reason I'm doing

30:45

this show. My my parents raised me to question

30:47

authority. I already had

30:50

a gas mask that I keep with me

30:52

wherever I live. I threw it on. I didn't

30:54

know what was burning in the buildings. I called

30:56

everyone I was supposed to be working in a restaurant

30:58

that night. I called the local rental

31:00

car place because I didn't own car at the time.

31:02

I said, could I rent a van right now?

31:05

And I was shock to find that they were

31:07

cheap. And so I rented two called all

31:09

my friends. I'm leaving New York City. I don't

31:11

know what's burning there. In the end, you

31:13

know, I was gone all week and went to newport

31:16

to to hang out and watch and see what

31:18

was all about because my instincts are

31:21

get out of there, figure out what's

31:23

going on, watch it from far, see how

31:25

it all plays out. Now when I

31:27

came back to the restaurant, a lot

31:29

of my friends were making fun of me. In fact, one guy

31:31

was writing a comic strip Dell's apocalypse

31:34

that I'm just, you know, panic

31:36

driven. And, you know, what were you worried about?

31:38

I'll tell you what I'm worried about. I'm worried about this.

31:40

There's a biological web on those planes. There's some

31:42

sort of chemical warfare. We don't

31:44

know if we're being bombed, which is what that

31:47

situation seemed like to me at the time,

31:49

I don't know what's in there and everyone's

31:51

laughing. Every documentary I've

31:53

watched and interviews the EPA now, what's the

31:55

first thing they say? In all honesty, we didn't know what

31:57

was in those planes. We didn't know if there was biological weapons.

31:59

We didn't know if there chemical weapons. We didn't

32:01

know what it was. But you never told

32:03

the people that. And so I'm wired

32:06

to get the hell out of there. And when I see

32:08

all these people lined up to go

32:10

to a town hall meeting, not wearing any masks

32:12

at all, it just shows how

32:14

complacent, how much we're trusting our government.

32:17

And so to really bust it here

32:19

in this story, you know, go

32:21

ahead, be overly Now I'm

32:23

I'm fearful of one. Be overly, you know,

32:26

anticipating what could possibly be wrong because

32:28

our EPA lies to us. Our government

32:30

lies to us, and they're gonna prove by what

32:32

you just said, they lied to you based on what

32:34

we know yesterday. They're sending you back to

32:37

your homes saying, oh, drink the

32:39

water, hang out, lay on the couch, let your kids

32:41

crawl across the carpet because there's no problem.

32:43

But here's what the EPA is

32:44

thinking, when it comes to their own staff. Watch

32:46

this folks. This is a mindblower. Do

32:49

you have any sense given that in your words, this

32:51

is an ongoing cleanup Can

32:53

you give them any sort of a timeline when you

32:55

believe you can say to them definitively? It's

32:59

safe.

33:02

You know, Erica, what I'd say is

33:04

this is a fresh accident.

33:07

We understand the community's angst we

33:09

are on the ground. We will conduct the

33:11

cleanup. But we have to be able to

33:13

get in and do the assessment. So --

33:15

Mhmm. -- as the conditions on the ground, become

33:18

safe so that we can put our scientists and

33:20

engineers not in harm's way,

33:22

but in a position where they could do their work.

33:24

We will be then in a position to provide

33:27

those updates to the public as soon as

33:29

we can. You know, we're gonna keep the public

33:31

updated. We have people on the ground now.

33:33

So we want to be

33:34

transparent, Erica. So a couple of other real

33:36

quick questions before I lose you up for timing here. You

33:38

just said that as the conditions become safe, you'll

33:40

send in your teams. Are there any areas at

33:42

this point in time, which you believe are still unsafe?

33:45

Howard Bauchner:

33:47

Well, you know, it's an emergency

33:49

response. And so obviously,

33:51

we want to be sure that we do not put

33:53

anyone in harm's

33:55

way, including our staff. So So does

33:57

that investigate?

34:00

As we investigate and as we look at

34:02

the site, we will determine when

34:04

and how we can get the appropriate staff in

34:06

to do the appropriate testing.

34:08

Oh, my God. It's

34:11

safe enough for you to go home and hang out

34:13

next to this type, but not safe enough for us

34:15

to send in our government staff

34:17

to look into it we tell you it's safe.

34:20

We at the EPA have not proven that

34:22

to a level that we would feel safe with our

34:24

staff. Folks, This is the United

34:26

States of America right now. These are your regulatory

34:29

agencies. They should be risking their lives

34:31

to protect you instead they're protecting their

34:33

lives and risking your life final

34:36

thoughts from you too

34:37

because, I mean, I'm just I'm just gonna get too heated

34:39

if we stick on this subject much longer. I

34:42

just wanna say, I

34:44

saw that and I well,

34:46

I'm not shocked, but this

34:48

is what we trained for when they said this scientists

34:50

and engineers, they're talking about people like

34:52

TME and I. We train for this.

34:55

We do tabletop exercises. We

34:57

have fake triage patients come through and have

34:59

to decomm from chemical, biological,

35:02

radiological, nuclear attacks. We

35:04

do that. And this is what we said

35:06

from day one. I said, when people said, where's

35:09

the EPA? I said, they cannot come

35:11

into your town because when you see them in full FCBAs

35:13

or Tyvek Su with 3M78

35:15

hundred, organic vapor acid gas cartridge,

35:17

p one hundred filters, you're gonna go, what

35:20

in the apocalypse are these people wearing and why

35:22

am I walking outside? So And

35:24

this is improper risk communication,

35:27

and this is a massive tenant of public

35:29

health and occupational safety and

35:31

health, and it was all abandoned And this

35:33

is the real epidemic that we're seeing in this country

35:36

as improper response, and we are no better

35:38

because we train and set the regulations to

35:40

ensure these proper responses are being conducted

35:43

properly and the risk is being conveyed.

35:45

Anne Schuchat:

35:46

Yeah, and I would just say, you know, anytime

35:48

we don't know, Kristen referenced

35:51

a term called IDOH. That means it's immediately

35:53

dangerous to life and health. So

35:56

we don't know what we were dealing with, so

35:58

it should have been treated as an IDOH

36:00

situation, which means everyone is

36:03

evacuated and you do not go

36:05

in unless you are wearing IDOH protective

36:08

equipment, period. They know this.

36:10

We know they know this because they've trained us

36:12

on this. These are the things that we trained

36:15

for, that we practice for, that we educate on.

36:17

So It was a huge, huge red

36:19

flag when we saw this and was very angering

36:21

to realize we are bringing hundreds

36:24

of thousands of people across the border.

36:26

We are sheltering them, housing them, feeding

36:29

them, clothing them, letting them go to college

36:31

for free for crying out loud. We don't do that

36:33

for our own citizens. The government's not housing

36:35

me and sending me college for free. And yet,

36:37

we cannot take a tone that is

36:39

ground zero where there is probably the worst

36:41

environmental disaster of our lifetime

36:43

and evacuate those people that's small

36:46

town. We could have easily moved

36:48

those people, evacuated them, put them

36:50

up, and provided proper communication

36:53

and proper supplies

36:55

and food and water for them. Instead,

36:57

they're letting them go right back into an ideal

36:59

age situation because it is unknown. And

37:02

it's horrible that this is why we need to

37:04

privatize these agencies. They've proven

37:06

that they're inept. They're proven that they're corrupt.

37:08

They've proven that the very

37:11

things they were designed to protect us from,

37:13

they are now actually doing. They

37:15

are now guilty of revisionism. Violating

37:18

their own standards, putting the public at great

37:20

risk of harm, creating greater hazards,

37:22

so we need to take the power away from these people who

37:24

have proven that they cannot handle it.

37:26

Agreed. And one last quick thing. I know we're short

37:28

on time. I, unfortunately, have

37:30

seen for decades people making snow

37:33

cones out of snow. There's a huge

37:35

weather system that's going right through this

37:37

area. Mhmm. Folks, that

37:39

weather is not gonna help this issue. It

37:41

can further leach these contaminants into

37:43

the raw water faster into the aqua

37:45

force and all the navigable

37:47

waters. Do not --

37:50

Mhmm. --

37:50

eat the snow and do not let your children

37:52

play in the snow right now. The good

37:55

thing about it is is what is in the air. It's gonna

37:57

be brought down to the ground, but now we're dealing with a

37:59

possible down the road super fun So I

38:01

just have to say that because somebody will try

38:03

it. Howard Bauchner: All right. Really, very

38:05

important information. Thank you for taking the

38:07

time to join us and and really alerting

38:09

us to many of these

38:11

inconsistencies. And I would just say,

38:13

I thought we were supposed to always air on

38:15

the side of caution. Let's overreact and

38:18

then find out what's going on. We just went through

38:20

three years of an overreaction to

38:22

a virus that has a death rate of zero point

38:25

three five percent at the very highest

38:28

And so, I mean, that's what we

38:30

do. Let's overreact. In in very least,

38:32

at the very least, why don't you tell the people

38:34

to react exactly how the EPA is reacting,

38:36

which is you're not going near the site yet and you're

38:38

not going into anyone's home. And Pete Buttigieg,

38:41

I don't want to hear you talking about this from

38:43

the White House or you know, the capital. I

38:45

want you on the ground. I want you drinking

38:47

the water. Everyone's telling us to drink and

38:49

show me that you care and you're standing with the

38:51

people and you think it's safe enough to stand

38:53

on that smoldering pile

38:56

of of of insanity. Alright.

38:58

Thank you so much for joining us. Obviously,

39:01

we're all heeded on this as we should be

39:03

We will continue to check-in with you as more

39:05

and more

39:05

depth, you know, develops in this story. Take

39:08

care. Thank you. Great. Thanks, Gail.

39:10

Alright. Well, look, to get in deeper into

39:13

this and