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All right, it is a Monday, and there

0:28

is a lie to talk

0:30

about. It's the hurt. Wherever you may be

0:33

and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us

0:35

part of your day, Jamak. You

0:38

know, there was a time during

0:41

the basketball season that you sort of knew who would

0:43

end up in the finals, given the Shack Kobe

0:45

time. You can go back

0:48

to the sixties. It was Bill Russell and the Celtics

0:50

every year. But that

0:52

is not this time. That

0:55

was quite a serious What a Sunday

0:57

of basketball college teams

1:00

would.

1:01

I'm stunned, still stunned.

1:02

I think that's the first time that's ever happened. Minnesota,

1:05

Dallas, Indiana, Pacers,

1:07

Celtics of the Final four. So in the eighties

1:10

and in the nineties and in the early two

1:12

thousands, in the twenty tens,

1:15

we had dynasties. We had dynasties.

1:17

It could be the Pistons, or it could be

1:19

the Celtics with Larry Bird and additional

1:21

pieces. It could be MJ. It

1:24

could be the Spurs with Tim Duncan, Kobe

1:26

and Shaq. Lakers, there was the Magic Kareem

1:28

Lakers. The Heatles got

1:31

close to being a dynasty, and then of course the Warriors

1:33

dominated a decade, getting to the finals

1:35

many times, and those

1:38

days now are apparently over. Welcome

1:41

to twenty nineteen and beyond.

1:43

We will have the sixth NBA

1:45

champion in six years now. I think the NBA

1:49

has more talent than it's ever had,

1:51

especially European talent. A lot

1:54

of good bigs, but it's spread out

1:56

throughout the league. What you saw

1:58

yesterday does not happen much. A defending

2:01

champ with the best player

2:03

in the world at home

2:06

of evaporating in the second half,

2:09

it just doesn't happen. You got the

2:11

best player, you got a good staff, you're

2:13

defending champs. Most of us

2:15

think you have the best team. And they

2:17

just dried up Denver multiple

2:20

times in this series. Just got embarrassed.

2:22

The first two games of this series. They were pushed

2:25

around they lost three or four

2:27

at home, and let's be honest,

2:30

yesterday offense third quarter

2:32

dried up. The Tea Wolves deserve

2:34

the credit. A lot of this

2:37

is the construct, the construction of the roster.

2:40

It's really good two bigs

2:42

one a defender, want to score, a

2:44

dynamic emerging superstar

2:47

on the wing, good bench, letticism,

2:50

length, high IQ veteran

2:53

point guard. So a guy named

2:55

Tim Connelly built Denver's

2:57

roster to a championship level, then

3:00

took a better gig with Minnesota and

3:03

very intentionally built

3:05

a roster to beat the roster

3:08

he built to thwart Jokic,

3:10

and in some instances he did. The

3:13

te Wolves are very intentionally

3:15

built. When they came in with two bigs,

3:18

one all defense, the other great

3:21

offense. You know, you start looking

3:23

from naz Reid on. They're really

3:25

built with a purpose. You know a lot of times

3:28

you watch NBA teams Phoenix and there's

3:30

just duplication everywhere. There's

3:32

not here. I do think offensively,

3:35

they probably have to look at getting another

3:37

dependable a Pippin to

3:40

MJ and somebody

3:42

beyond him when he has those rare off shooting nights.

3:44

But the Nuggets now still a very

3:46

good team. The game went down

3:48

to the wire, game went to seven,

3:51

but they have to go back to the drawing board.

3:54

Gordon didn't give them anything offensively.

3:56

Jamal Murray was very very good early,

3:59

not as much. La Jokic needs

4:01

help. They need a better bench, so

4:03

they'll be fine, but we have to go back

4:05

to the drawing board. It tells you how

4:08

well constructed the Tea

4:10

Wolves are. That Ant really

4:12

played poorly offensively yesterday

4:15

and they still rolled over the champs

4:17

on the road. That's about roster

4:20

construction that Ant doesn't

4:22

have to And this was always the key with Jordan's Bulls.

4:25

Michael on most nights was

4:28

not only the best player, but would hit the big shot. But

4:30

it was when they got a packson or a cur or,

4:33

a coup coach. They got Rodman who

4:35

had a specialty. It wasn't just about

4:37

Pippin. It was Phil Jackson understanding

4:40

that you need elements to a championship team,

4:42

and Denver had those last year. But

4:44

with the emergence of

4:47

Ant, who is now a better player and an elite

4:49

defender, Denver did not have enough.

4:51

So we will have the sixth champ in

4:54

sixth seasons. The eighties

4:56

and the nineties and the early two thousands are

4:58

over. Of the four left, Boston, Indiana,

5:02

Dallas, and Minnesota, I feel

5:04

like, based on roster construction,

5:07

Minnesota and Boston play for

5:09

the championship. Here are

5:11

some thoughts after how

5:13

hard is it just to absorb a loss

5:15

like this after going

5:17

ahead by twenty? Next

5:21

question, Man, the season's

5:23

over.

5:24

That's what's hard being up twenty

5:27

season's over.

5:28

You don't understand that the season's over.

5:30

It's hard.

5:32

Stupid ask questions.

5:34

I think they're built to beat us

5:37

in someone and just look at the roster.

5:39

They have basically two all stars,

5:41

two probably the

5:43

first defensive players in the Mike Ony,

5:45

who's the most underrated player in the NBA.

5:48

Probably, I mean, I love the

5:50

guy. He's so good. One team that

5:52

he They can do a little, little,

5:54

literally everything. They can be big small.

5:56

So congrats

6:00

to the t Wolves, certainly earned.

6:02

Denver is not reeling, just beaten

6:05

by a really smartly constructed

6:07

team with an emerging superstar. All

6:10

right. The only people more disappointed

6:13

than nick fans that they lost in Game

6:15

seven at home to Indiana was ESPN

6:18

apparently, but I get it.

6:21

New York.

6:21

Boston is what the NBA needed it

6:24

felt big. The late

6:27

John Madden used to say, some games

6:29

just sound big, you know, Packers

6:31

Bears. Even if one team isn't great, it sounds

6:34

big. Nick's Celtics sounded

6:37

big. But New York fell apart.

6:39

I know, I know it's an excuse. Not really.

6:42

It's sometimes there's an excuse dog

6:44

ate my homework, and then sometimes

6:46

there's a reason, you know, the school boss

6:48

got into a wreck. I

6:51

think New York's the better team. They fell apart. Brunson,

6:53

og, Julius Randall, Mitchell Robinson

6:55

for their top seven players hurt. But

6:58

there's also you know, you

7:00

got Defangenzo. Now catch

7:03

and shoot guy, you can't get it rid of him. I

7:05

think the Knicks have a very interesting dilemma.

7:07

It's a good dilemma to have. They have a

7:09

culture and they didn't forever. And

7:12

I think they have the coach who sets

7:14

the culture like he did in Chicago Tips.

7:17

So that's the good news. They were just a

7:19

aimless, wandering franchise,

7:22

reaching on talent, getting stars

7:24

that weren't committed beyond themselves. The

7:26

New York Knicks have a culture, and

7:29

a lot of it is the Villanova guys led

7:32

by Jalen Brunson. But they also

7:35

tough, gritty, physical, They're not

7:37

skilled enough. Milwaukee

7:39

next year is better, Sixers have cap

7:41

space, they'll be better. Cleveland

7:44

could make a big deal and get better. The

7:46

East isn't very good and the

7:48

Knicks fell apart, and that is a

7:50

big reason why they lost. They were a

7:52

better team. I thought when healthy, they just

7:54

fell apart. Once og goes

7:56

down early Brunson, it

7:59

just now is that Tibbs. Is

8:01

that what they'll be going out? They need depth

8:04

and they do need another highly

8:07

skilled star, but you better get

8:09

the right one. And that's why it's

8:11

a delicate balance. For years, the Knicks

8:13

were impatient. Now they're patient. For

8:16

years they had fake stars. Now they

8:18

have a real one. For years,

8:20

they could have great nights, but you didn't

8:23

think there was a great soul or depth to

8:25

it. Check check they have both. Can

8:27

they get a Paul George kd probably

8:30

fits, but does he emotionally? And

8:32

that's the challenge for the Knicks. And I think they're

8:34

up to it because I think they finally got the front

8:37

office in order. Don't

8:39

screw with the culture, don't screw

8:41

with the toughness, do not take the ball out

8:44

of the hands of Jalen Brunson. But

8:47

you also have to be honest and admit Dame

8:49

and Jannis both got hurt, and

8:52

Beid got hurt, Jimmy Butler

8:54

got hurt, the Hole East got hurt, and Boston's

8:56

going nowhere at least this year and next year

8:59

they'll have a much better roster offensively

9:01

and defensively. It's

9:03

a great year. Pacers

9:05

probably not quite built to beat Boston.

9:08

Boston played them five times this year and average one

9:10

hundred and twenty nine points. New

9:12

York if healthy, I think could have

9:15

really challenged the Celtics. Maybe

9:17

not beaten them, maybe, but they would have challenged

9:19

them. I don't think Indiana can. But

9:21

the key to the Knicks here get

9:24

a star. Don't

9:27

screw with the culture. It's

9:29

going to take patience and thought

9:32

and self awareness, and I think they have

9:35

it. Here's Brunson after.

9:37

I think we were making positive

9:39

strides. We just need to make more.

9:41

So.

9:41

I love this group of guys that we have and

9:44

just like I said before, their mindset, our mindset

9:46

as a group was

9:48

strong, and some

9:52

nights when we may have not had

9:55

what people the thought was a team capable

9:57

of winning. Our mindset pushes over that hump,

9:59

and

10:02

definitely proud of what we were able to do this year and

10:04

proud of how we fought night in, night out.

10:06

Listen. Talent skill

10:08

eventually get your titles, but

10:11

Heat culture has gotten you

10:13

to finals when you probably

10:15

didn't have the skill.

10:18

So the Warriors had a culture.

10:20

The Heat have had it with Spolster and pat

10:22

Riley forever, one

10:24

of the stronger cultures in the league. They look

10:26

and play differently than everybody else. Is

10:29

the Knicks tweak? It

10:31

add some skill, But I would

10:33

take this season despite that loss, over

10:36

any over the last twenty and not just

10:38

because you got to within the

10:40

game of the Eastern Conference finals. What

10:42

you found and created and built

10:45

had been missing since pat Riley

10:47

coached depth,

10:49

a soul, a style

10:53

like you go home. You're watching Nick fans

10:55

do the heart sign on their shirt. This team

10:58

was impossible not to love. At

11:01

another piece, you may love them even

11:03

more so. J mack. Our

11:06

final four is interesting. You

11:08

have the two best closers,

11:10

probably Luka Kyrie. The best

11:12

constructed roster may

11:15

be Minnesota. The

11:17

team we keep waiting to hoist a trophy,

11:19

Boston, but we're getting impatient and

11:22

a young, fun, offensive,

11:24

high tempo team in Indiana that feels

11:26

like the fourth of four can't defend

11:28

at an elite level like the other three. Dallas

11:30

now an elite defensive team. Boston

11:32

is Minnesota. Indiana's all offense,

11:35

and I do feel like they if they were receding

11:37

this, they would be they would be the four.

11:39

Yeah, I think we both think Boston's decide for sure.

11:42

The question is who wins Minnesota Dallas.

11:44

You don't have to give away your pick this early.

11:47

Will say tough series.

11:48

Those trade deadline moves by Dallas.

11:51

If they don't make those, this is a blowout.

11:53

Those Now they've got size PJ.

11:56

Washington. Now they have a little depth, they

11:58

have a front line. It's an interesting

12:01

series and they have Minnesota can struggle

12:03

at times offensively. Dallas

12:05

has two great fourth quarter closers.

12:07

So if Dallas, if Dallas can keep games

12:10

close, you know you like

12:12

their chances with Luke and Kyrie down the

12:14

stretch.

12:14

Let me ask to put a bowl in the next season. You just

12:16

said you love the philosophy. We talked about

12:18

it. They're hard nos they played great, but

12:21

do they have to tweak it a

12:23

little bit? Colin because Thibodeau

12:26

grinds his dudes into dust. And we've

12:28

seen it before. He was in Chicago, played

12:30

Luel Dang like every minute of every game,

12:32

and like at twenty eight, Dang.

12:34

Was cooked, his career was over.

12:35

Yeah.

12:35

I don't want to see that with Brunson. This

12:37

next team.

12:38

I think they have to tell tibodauh hey, Paul George

12:40

ain't gonna want to come here and play forty minutes ago.

12:42

Kd's not gonna want to come here, right.

12:45

Remember, if they didn't

12:47

face all the injuries, the minutes

12:49

would have been more evenly distributed. A

12:51

lot of this as two of their bigs, Randall and Mitchell

12:53

Robinson. Now then Og gets hurt,

12:56

so some of this was circumstantial.

12:59

They're big, a lot of bigs, a lot of bullies

13:01

got hurt for them. You also have draft

13:03

picks. I would love to see them

13:06

make some moves on Randall, Bogdanovich.

13:08

They can do this, right, they can move

13:10

it. They have cat flexibility or

13:12

workable contracts. They have draft picks. I

13:15

think they need more depth. I

13:17

don't think. I don't think they have to swing and

13:19

hit a home run with their star. People

13:22

would look at KD. Paul George would

13:24

be a really good fit, and he's

13:26

a willing defender.

13:27

He'd get to leave the West, which is loaded

13:29

beyond belief, and come the East

13:31

to Paul George.

13:32

That makes a lot of sense.

13:33

It does. And the other thing about Paul is,

13:36

you know, whoever you bring

13:39

into the Knicks does not

13:41

have to be the soul of it. When the Warriors

13:43

brought in KD, they had leaders.

13:45

Yeah, they had a culture, just come and hit shots.

13:48

The Knicks aren't the Warriors, but

13:50

similarly the coach

13:54

de vincenzo Og Brunson,

13:57

Josh Hart, they've got the

13:59

culture and the toughness and the leadership.

14:02

What they're looking for is another catch

14:04

and shoot guy on the wing that Brunson

14:07

doesn't have to carry the offensive load. Brunson

14:10

has proven he's a one and can carry

14:12

the load. But small guys ask

14:14

to do that generally your hardens. Steph

14:18

Curry. You know, people will say what about Steph Curry,

14:20

But Steph Curry had clay then they brought

14:22

in k D. So he didn't really have

14:24

this year. He had to carry it and couldn't. So

14:26

it's like New York has

14:28

to bring in somebody. But they're

14:31

not asking somebody to come in and

14:34

be the foundation, the soul, the

14:36

leader, the talker. They

14:38

don't need any of that. They need twenty three

14:41

a night from the wing and a guy that's

14:43

willing to defend. You

14:45

can't have a finesse guy that's not willing to defend.

14:47

It will not work in this culture. I

14:49

mean, Luca defended this year. Most guys

14:51

want to win. Most guys are I mean

14:54

Kad and his prime was a willing defender. Lebron

14:56

and his prime was a great defender. Most guys

14:58

are be sure.

14:59

The live editions of The Herd weekdays

15:02

and neon Easter nine am Pacific on

15:04

Fox Sports Radio FS one and

15:06

the iHeartRadio app.

15:08

So the emerging star in the NBA

15:10

who did not have a good offensive day

15:13

yesterday is Aunt Edwards. Ant

15:15

for short average twenty eight game, fifty

15:17

percent, shooting thirty seven percent

15:19

from three good plus minus. He's

15:21

a remarkably dynamic player, but this

15:24

year he got more refined. He still has some ups

15:26

and downs. By the way, I know, there's video

15:28

proof Michael Jordan did too. It's okay if you

15:31

average twenty eight a game in his series you're a really

15:33

good player. But one of the things, a

15:35

couple of things I really like about

15:37

Aunt is he has self

15:39

awareness. He knew yesterday this

15:41

was not his night, so we decided to play defense

15:44

at a high level. And the other thing is

15:46

winning is his priority.

15:49

So many young basketball players

15:51

in this country confused being a star

15:54

with being a winner. Tom Brady was

15:56

both Mahomes is both Mahomes

15:59

and Brady will a lot of star quarterbacks

16:01

that may not get that. Ant

16:03

was having a really, really bad shooting

16:05

day and then he had a really

16:08

really great game because he committed to

16:10

the other end of the floor. And there are stars

16:12

that have never done that. And the NBA has always

16:14

done a great job to develop

16:16

and market and promote stars,

16:18

often through apparel, and I applaud

16:21

them for that. But sometimes

16:23

those stars get a lot of money in fame early

16:25

and they lose a sense of priorities.

16:28

Jaw Morant Zion, just to name

16:31

a couple Ant hasn't.

16:33

He's about winning basketball games,

16:36

highly competitive, wants

16:38

to guard the other team's best player, has

16:41

an off shooting night, and says, all right,

16:43

I can do other things. By the way. Mahomes

16:46

two Super Bowls against the Niners. Four

16:49

touchdowns, three picks. Hasn't been great,

16:51

but he's made big runs or big

16:53

plays to hoist a trophy. And

16:56

that's what I like about Aunt. He's

16:58

gonna get his points. I'm not worried

17:01

about that. I mean, you can just see him

17:03

pick Jamal Murray. He's a superb athlete.

17:06

But they's if somebody told me years

17:08

ago in the NBA, it's not about getting a star.

17:11

You get the wrong star, they'll set you back. It's

17:13

about getting the right star and

17:16

the right stars. Like a Duncan, like

17:19

an MJ, like a magic They're

17:21

not satisfied. They're never content, and

17:23

they're about winning, not their

17:25

shoe deal, not their brand. And

17:28

Minnesota held Denver under

17:31

one hundred points. That's what they averaged

17:33

in the four wins. That's insane.

17:36

Yoki Murray, Porter k C B

17:38

and Ant was a huge part of

17:40

that, and here he is after.

17:43

There's more ways to win a basketball game when

17:45

you just not when you're just not an offensive player. Man, I'm

17:48

not one dimension or I'm not just a guy who can score.

17:50

I'm a guy who can go whoever they best guard is,

17:52

I can go lock him down. So I feel like I did that on

17:54

Jamal in the fourth quarter, and that's what in

17:56

the third quarter and fourth quarter, and that's what turned.

17:58

The game around.

18:00

Absolutely did hard to

18:02

dislike the Knicks, impossible

18:04

to dislike in my opinion and priorities.

18:08

There is a difference between star and

18:11

a winner, and stars eventually

18:13

win the great ones. But there's a lot

18:15

of a lot of guys that are more

18:17

into the brand and that's just not Ant's

18:19

thing. And it's great to see j Mack with a news.

18:25

This is the Herdline news.

18:28

All right, my man, We'll start with the Celtics

18:30

Pacers in the Eastern Conference Finals,

18:32

Indiana stunning Game seven blowout

18:35

of the My mix, Boston's

18:38

going to continue to be without kristaffs porzingis

18:40

for at least games one and two of the Eastern

18:42

Conference.

18:42

Why not rest him if you can for the whole

18:45

series?

18:45

I mean probably the game plan.

18:47

I mean between Derek White, Tatum, Holiday,

18:50

and Brown Al Horford against

18:53

a team that doesn't play defense. I mean, Boston

18:55

scored at will against Indiana and the games they

18:57

met, you don't need to play them.

18:59

Yeah.

18:59

The only question is, you know, what are they going to do

19:01

to defend Sam because he he went off.

19:03

No, he's good. He's good. He was good in Toronto, he's good

19:05

here.

19:05

He's a good player.

19:07

I guess you could put brown on him, like, I mean,

19:09

giving up a little size. But they they've got matchup

19:11

abilities. I'm I'm not that worried

19:13

about them playing without porzinga singer. Miles

19:15

Turner wants to shoot threes.

19:16

Now.

19:17

Now, Halliburton was great yesterday and

19:19

and Siakam's good. They've got two star players,

19:21

and then they've got some length Miles Turner. But

19:24

there's limitations to this roster. You know,

19:26

they're not a team that showed a great deal

19:28

of mental strength until Game seven, when

19:30

they had one of the best halves of offensive

19:32

basketball. Now, again, this is not a

19:34

shot at the Pacers. A lot of this was

19:37

the Knicks had no size and everybody

19:39

was worn down. The wheels came off the next I

19:41

think we were all surprised that just you kind

19:43

of like felt in the second half of the last game, You're

19:46

like, the Knicks are just running out of fuel, They're

19:48

on empty. But I don't think it's a

19:50

particularly good matchup for Indiana, I

19:53

really do. I mean, here's Boston, well

19:55

rested, ready to go. Dominated

19:57

the regular season top five offensive

19:59

defense team against an Indiana team

20:02

that is like when you watch TV and can notice,

20:05

Wow, that team gives up easy looks

20:07

almost every time down the floor. Indiana

20:10

just does not put pressure on you. You can get

20:12

great looks. Boston as a tremendous offensive

20:14

team on most nights, I think they fly

20:16

through it.

20:17

Yeah.

20:17

Indiana was basically, oh, we got to stop Brunton

20:19

and there was like no one else to worry about it.

20:21

And even in Game seven it was

20:23

reasonably close.

20:25

Third quarter.

20:25

I think they cut it to like five bucks.

20:27

Yeah, Like I was sitting, I'm like, no, there's no way

20:29

they can win.

20:30

And then Indiana put in TJ. McConnell and it was game

20:32

over. It's not gonna work against Boston.

20:34

I'm not putting down the pace. Is this the reality? So

20:36

series starts tomorrow.

20:38

If we seeded teams, I would

20:40

go, I mean, I'll

20:43

say this, I would go Minnesota one,

20:45

Boston to Dallas three, Indiana

20:47

four. I mean the way they beat

20:49

the way they beat Minnesota, or the way

20:51

they beat Denver, holding them

20:53

on average to under one hundred points in their

20:55

four wins, that

20:58

it wasn't just beating then. It was like

21:00

taking the best player in the league in

21:02

that offense and shutting it down.

21:04

For the thing, the one thing that's been underplayed

21:07

is the familiarity they had.

21:09

They built that Denver team. Okay, they

21:11

knew the flaws.

21:12

The coaching staff was with all of them

21:14

like it was a unique situation. It

21:16

was almost like they built this Minnesota

21:19

team to match up with Denver and it was

21:21

mission accomplished.

21:21

We beat him this year.

21:23

I don't know that that applies to Dallas. But Celtic

21:25

sweep or a gentleman sweep.

21:27

Well, I mean Indiana at home is good,

21:30

so they'll win.

21:31

They almost lost Game three to the Knicks and they

21:33

were down oh two.

21:34

It was like just again TI game thirty seconds.

21:35

Indiana should be happy

21:38

they won. They showed mental toughness, They

21:40

had a great first half. But some

21:42

of this stuff styles make fights. This is

21:44

not a great matchup for Indiana. They

21:46

cannot make stops and Boston's

21:49

not only a significantly better defensive

21:51

team, they're a better offensive team. I mean

21:53

Derek White is He's

21:56

good? Yeah, I mean when Derek White's

21:58

your number four or five scoring option, Indiana's

22:01

Introth.

22:01

Does this remind you of the Hawks?

22:02

Remember with Trey Young, they stunned the Sixers

22:05

in Game seven, get to the conference finals, Boston

22:07

dispatches them, and Hawks have not been back.

22:09

Right, this feels like a charmed road for Indiana.

22:12

Yes it was, and yes

22:15

you know. Next up, let's

22:17

go to the Phoenix Suns column. We keep talking about

22:20

trading Kevin Durant. You seem

22:22

to want again book Booker out of town. We know Bill has

22:24

the no trade. Well after their playoff

22:26

exit, James Jones, the GM

22:28

of the Suns, is shutting down the

22:30

narrative, saying those guys aren't

22:32

going anywhere. Speaking of their big three, those

22:35

guys are part of the solution, They're part

22:37

of the answer. Now we've

22:39

crunched the numbers and the Sun's big

22:41

three their cap hit.

22:43

Are you ready for this?

22:44

Durant fifty one mil, Bill

22:47

fifty mil, Booker forty

22:49

nine mil. I think you have to make a move,

22:52

highest combined cap hit

22:54

of any trio in the league.

22:56

And they need three things. They need a

22:58

true point guard. Bill not it,

23:00

Booker's not it. They need more of

23:02

a bench, and they could use more size. I mean,

23:04

when you you don't think Denver's going to be coming

23:06

back. You think Denver's just gonna wilt

23:08

away. Minnesota's here. You

23:11

look at the size now of Dallas because of those

23:13

two trade deadline moves. Yeah, those teams

23:15

are big, by the way, the Lakers are big. They'll

23:18

make moves. So you know, I look at

23:20

this and I think, you know it's it's it's

23:22

okay to take big swings and miss

23:25

It's okay. I mean in the

23:27

NFL, I mean you you.

23:30

I mean Washington

23:32

one year drafted RG three and Kirk

23:34

Cousins one missed, one didn't

23:37

and they were still for a few years with Kirk viable.

23:39

So it's like to me, it's okay. It took

23:41

big swings. But like if you look

23:43

at the cap hits, the duplication of what they

23:45

do and their needs, why

23:48

run it back?

23:48

The only question is if you're Butenholzer, are

23:51

you taking this job? If Kevin Durant's

23:53

not going to be there, like he probably got assurances

23:56

like I'm not taking this if I'm not getting Kadi.

23:57

How do we know that Budenholzer didn't sit with

24:00

the owner and the owner said,

24:02

what would you do to change things? That's Drake,

24:05

and he would say, yeah, I would move

24:07

this piece. Like I think Booker

24:09

is a very good player, he hasn't proven to be

24:11

the kind of guy that can lead a foundational

24:13

piece to lead a franchise. They were no good before

24:15

Chris Paul got there, and Booker was great. So

24:18

I think I think Booker's a great two I

24:21

don't know. I just I watched the way Minnesota

24:23

is constructed, and they have all the pieces,

24:26

and what I see with Phoenix is like one

24:28

piece mid range shooters, Like

24:30

you need a point, Go find your Mike

24:32

Conley, Go find your nas

24:34

Reed, go get a bench.

24:37

Well, so it's funny you mentioned Booker

24:39

and Anthony Edwards colin two

24:41

months ago. If we said Booker Anthony Edwards,

24:44

it's Booker probably universally, I

24:47

don't think it's even close. Now, Anthony Edwards

24:49

just looks like a vastly superior play.

24:51

No, No, he's a he's a much better athlete.

24:52

His defense on Jamal Murray totally

24:55

to like shooting or yeah.

24:57

No, and and I mean I think the question

25:00

and his aunt greater than Jason

25:02

Tatum, and Tatum's clearly better

25:04

than Booker. Is a two way player, and I think

25:06

the answer is yes. I think the mentality

25:08

is there any Luca.

25:11

I mean, at this point, you're putting Ant like top one.

25:13

Well, I think I think Luca Is could

25:15

end up if he played for twenty years as the league's

25:18

second leading scorer all time. Luca

25:20

is a different player than Ant aunt Ant

25:22

is more Jordan. Luca is just more. He's

25:25

like Dirk with girth. He's just

25:27

gonna score for twenty years.

25:29

Yeah, huh, all

25:31

right, final story Buffalo Bills. Let's get to

25:34

the NFL.

25:34

A lot of questions. Remember they dumped a bunch of veterans

25:37

on that defense. Some offensive line issues.

25:40

Stefan Diggs got traded. Well,

25:42

New Dolphin safety Jordan Poyer.

25:45

You may remember him from Buffalo. He was one of

25:47

the cast offs. He is raving about

25:49

Josh Allen at a charity softball game

25:51

in Buffalo.

25:52

And allowed to grow

25:55

as a person as a player, Teams,

25:58

coaches, every man.

26:01

I love that other moment of it. Sorry,

26:04

but you got the best quarterback in the league.

26:14

Well, what's he supposed to say? Mahomes

26:16

is the best quarterback. This guy behind me is number two.

26:19

Kind of trapped, aren't you?

26:21

You don't have to say the best.

26:22

You can say the toughest, smartest,

26:25

grittiest, coolest.

26:28

Yeah, he's at best.

26:29

For all the sellers on the Buffalo

26:31

Bills, I will remind you

26:34

you sold all your stock on the Rams, and

26:36

we said, if you have a good coach and a great quarterback

26:39

in a pass rush in this league and just

26:41

like a good weapon, you'll be fine. Buffalo's

26:43

fine.

26:43

You're sure about that right now?

26:44

Buffalo is going to win ten eleven,

26:47

twelve, thirteen games. They're fine.

26:49

They're fine, ten eleven twelve Okay,

26:52

I'm losing counter And how many starters

26:54

they lost on defense?

26:55

And those were very expensive good

26:57

players. How do you know they didn't replace them

26:59

with great young talent in the draft. They

27:02

lost a lot of good players. You

27:05

know, Stemon Diggs was a very good player. I

27:08

don't think he's Devonte Adams or Jamar Chase.

27:11

They lost good player.

27:13

Phill's going to the season.

27:14

Here's their top three receivers, Khalil

27:16

Shaker, Keyon Coleman the rookie,

27:18

and Curtis Samuel coming behind them

27:21

mvs. Drop King, we know him,

27:24

and then Chase Claypool. Oh

27:26

my god, what a disaster. This

27:28

might be the worst receiving core in the league.

27:29

No, it's not.

27:30

Find me a worse one.

27:31

How about James Cook at running back, Kim

27:34

cad and Dawson Knox at tighter a

27:37

better offensive line than the years

27:39

before. Yeah, I think they're

27:41

gonna be just fine. I think

27:43

that receiving corps. If Chase Claypool

27:45

is your five eurokay.

27:47

Chase Capook could be out of the league in six months.

27:49

I'm not even kidding, Colin.

27:52

Josh Allen's gonna have to turn into like Superman,

27:54

William and

27:57

every superhero ever to carry this team to

27:59

eleven wins.

28:00

Chamack with the news.

28:04

Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping

28:06

by the Herd Line News.

28:08

Colin right, Colin wrong, top of Next

28:10

Hour. You

28:13

know, I've been on this for a

28:15

few years that I think

28:17

the NFL has pivoted to an offensive league. That

28:19

does not mean that you

28:22

have to be You can be bad defensively. I

28:24

thought the Chiefs defense really won the Super

28:26

Bowl. Mahomes hoist the trophy, but it was the defense

28:28

and spags that really carried them through

28:30

most of the regular season. You can't be

28:32

terrible atrocious defensively. You have to

28:34

be at least situationally good, you have

28:37

to have a pass rush.

28:39

And I say that because

28:41

in the NBA they're taking

28:44

a little bit of a hand from

28:46

the NFL in terms of defense and

28:48

what the league has become. And it's interesting

28:50

and we'll talk about that next. When

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29:31

Tony, your sports takes the dumbest

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an al Central showdown as the Detroit

30:00

take on the Kansas City Royals and

30:02

all against tonight at seven thirty eastern

30:05

ons one.

30:07

So the four teams left Jmax

30:09

think about this, Minnesota best

30:12

defensive team in the league, exhibited that,

30:15

shutting down the Nuggets multiple times four

30:17

times in the series, Boston

30:19

top five defensive team, and

30:23

Dallas, which because of two moves at the

30:25

trade deadline, is now an excellent defensive

30:27

team. So ten of

30:30

the top eleven scorers

30:33

in the NBA had been eliminated, Lebron's

30:36

out, Mitchell Donovan, Mitchell,

30:38

Dame Booker, and beat

30:41

Ten of the top eleven

30:43

scores are out.

30:44

Now.

30:45

It may not produce great television

30:48

ratings, but it's producing, in my

30:50

opinion, great intense playoff

30:52

basketball. So a lot of television

30:54

ratings are based on market size and

30:57

star power and ants, not quite

30:59

there yet to be as known

31:02

across the country as he is. Maybe in the midwestern

31:04

Minnesota that'll just keep growing. But

31:07

I would say what you learn about

31:10

the NFL is you got

31:12

to have a star quarterback and hopefully an

31:14

offensive coach that helps, but you

31:16

got to be at least able to stop people

31:18

in big spots. The Kansas City Chiefs,

31:20

as I said earlier, won a championship

31:23

mostly led by their defense. If you go

31:25

to Patrick Mahomes and his first

31:27

year as a starter, he had fifty touchdowns

31:30

and they didn't win the Super Bowl. The following year

31:32

he had twenty six and they did okay,

31:35

So he had half the touchdown passes and they won the

31:37

Super Bowl. So the Pacers really,

31:40

in my opinion, have no shot to

31:42

win the championship. I think they have two really

31:45

really good players, they have a good coach,

31:47

they have a nice bench, they play with tempo. But

31:50

you're talking about three elite defensive teams

31:52

who can also score, and one really

31:54

nice offensive team that doesn't play a

31:57

lick at defense. Even yesterday,

31:59

the game was really more about the Knicks getting

32:01

hurt and the Pacers on fire

32:03

offensively in the first half. That really was

32:05

the story of the game. So I

32:07

think the worst basketball

32:10

game that is played

32:12

all season in professional basketball is

32:14

the All Star Game. Unwatchable.

32:16

To me, the NBA All Star Game is completely

32:19

unwatchable, a garbage, hot

32:21

mess, awful. Nobody defends. I

32:24

think these playoff games are incredible. I think they're

32:26

intense, they're grueling, there's bodies

32:28

on the floor. Anytime you allow

32:30

physicality, it gets chippier.

32:33

Chippy basketball can be fun. The other

32:35

thing is defense is more reliable

32:38

than offense because defense is mostly

32:40

about effort and toughness, and you can bring

32:43

that to the arena every night. Offense

32:45

is finicky. Even great offensive

32:47

players and struggled yesterday,

32:50

Booker can have bad nights. Luca had a six

32:53

for twenty, Kyrie disappeared for a couple

32:55

of playoff games. So even

32:57

the greatest offensive players, believe it or not, Jordan

32:59

and Byrd had really bad offensive

33:01

playoff games. Byrd never lost his

33:03

toughness or his ability to get on the floor

33:06

for a loose ball. And so three of these

33:08

four teams, it's sustainable. To

33:10

me, toughness, grit, and defense

33:14

is sustainable. I've said this about Jordan's

33:16

Bulls teams. I think all things considered,

33:18

they would beat the Warriors team with

33:21

even the Durant team. Now there's different rules

33:23

in different eras, but the Bulls

33:25

were one of the great, if not the greatest defensive

33:27

team I ever saw, based on all ball

33:29

defense and length and toughness

33:32

and coaching. And the Warriors were

33:34

good in spots but had holes mostly

33:36

Steph. So I

33:38

think the defense in the NBA, it's

33:40

very clear that, you

33:43

know, the All Star Game the last couple

33:45

of years has been totally embarrassing to the

33:47

league. They're embarrassed by it, and so they

33:50

have made around the All Star Game this year and

33:52

that ridiculous you know, shoot fest,

33:55

just garbage basketball, three point shooting,

33:57

dunking. The league was embarrassed

34:00

and started tweaking the rules

34:02

in terms of physicality, and they let the league

34:04

get more physical and the league got better and

34:07

the games are great. You're not gonna see

34:09

the results necessarily in the ratings,

34:11

because again, Minnesota's not a huge

34:14

brand. Denver isn't

34:16

a huge brand. Okay, Sees not a huge brand.

34:18

Pacers are okay, but it's basically

34:21

the Celtics and cross your fingers on ratings. I don't

34:23

think it'll rate particularly well. But I'll

34:25

argue with anybody about the quality of

34:27

basketball, and I think it's been substantially

34:30

better than in recent years. It's not chippy

34:33

and ugly offensively like the Pacers

34:35

Nicks back in the Reggie

34:38

Miller days. That was a lot of overrated

34:40

basketball. This is chippy

34:42

with great offensive skill all over

34:44

the floor. So the European players

34:47

have added length and skill and maturity,

34:49

and so the game is gifted

34:52

offensively. But there's just so many big

34:54

guys that can run intofen right now. You don't need

34:56

a handcheck. There's just great athleticism

34:58

all over the league. So I find the games highly

35:01

entertaining, but ratings

35:04

are a byproduct of a lot of things at

35:06

its three non brands here left.

35:09

By the way, you're stat about the scores being

35:11

out as crazy, I'll try to one up you. So

35:13

of the fifteen highest paid players

35:16

in the NBA, only one is left,

35:18

and his name is Rudy Gobert, a defensive player.

35:21

It feels like we're going through a weird shift now, Colin

35:23

in the league. I can't put my finger on it, but something's

35:26

going on. Whether it's the new luxury

35:28

tax, second Apron stuff. They're

35:31

trying to wipe out super teams, and

35:33

people are overpaying for offense. They don't have much

35:35

else on some of these superstar teams.

35:37

Well, I also think what happens when a

35:39

league gets smarter and harder

35:41

to build a super team? Who wins the

35:44

smarter front offices? So

35:46

Minnesota really smart front

35:48

office? Denver, Boston,

35:50

Brad Stevens. I mean Indiana's put

35:52

together, get Siakam. I

35:56

think the Lakers have

35:59

sometimes felt like they take

36:01

some swings, but they're just

36:03

cycling through coaches now kind of controlled

36:06

by Lebron So I think whenever, like

36:08

baseball, when baseball get got

36:10

very analytical, it

36:12

punishes teams like the Mets that have a lot

36:15

of money, but we never think they're brilliantly

36:17

constructed. The Braves keep

36:19

winning, the Dodgers keep winning, like

36:22

the well run teams

36:25

have flourished in the analytics era.

36:27

If they're willing to pony up some dough but money

36:30

alone. Padres have money and

36:32

the Mets have money, it's not gonna

36:34

do it. By the way, we're getting

36:36

into a more analytic NFL over

36:39

the last five to six years. Who's

36:41

bad? Both New York franchises.

36:44

We don't view them as very well run. Who

36:46

remains excellent Green Bay

36:49

McVeigh, Shanahan and

36:52

the Reid. So when the league

36:54

gets more analytical, I think all

36:56

sports are getting smarter, and

36:59

it's rewarding smart. It's

37:02

punishing people

37:04

that rely on money. It's okay to have money. The

37:07

Dodgers have money, but Andrew

37:09

Friedman is one of the sharpest guys

37:11

in the sport. Okay, Atlanta's

37:14

got a ton of money. They've always

37:16

had a tremendous since John Scherhold's

37:18

tremendous minor league system. So

37:21

you need some money. But

37:23

the New York football teams have reached

37:26

taken big switch. I mean, we've said this about the Knicks

37:29

the last two years, and I think James Dolan,

37:32

who could be a medaling owner because he

37:34

built the Sphere in Vegas. For

37:36

the last two to three years, James Dolan

37:39

has spent a lot of time in Vegas on this

37:42

wonderful, wonderful music

37:45

sphere, right, it's one of the most

37:48

amazing things in the world. He

37:50

stayed away from basketball and they brought

37:52

in people to run basketball. So you get the Knicks brand

37:55

and the Knicks money and their capital and

37:58

you get really a smart, no meddling,

38:01

non distracted front office.

38:03

And so I think when you start looking at basketball

38:06

right now, Dallas made really

38:08

aggressive moves at the deadline, really

38:11

smart moves paid off. Minnesota

38:13

has Denver's former GM. Denver

38:16

is still Oklahoma City with Sam Presty,

38:18

one of the smartest guys in the sport. So,

38:21

by the way, that's why I give Golden State.

38:23

I think Golden State will figure it out. Phoenix

38:26

just brought in a rich guy and it didn't

38:28

work. So money is wonderful, but

38:30

you should have the millionaire next door mindset

38:33

analytics is creating. There's

38:36

always been a have and have nots in sports

38:38

between the rich and the big markets

38:40

and the small markets. That's always existed. Now

38:43

because of analytics, in all these sports, there

38:46

is a gap between the intellectual

38:49

hals and the big

38:51

wallets or the sloppy have

38:54

knots, And some of those sloppies are in medium

38:56

to small markets.

38:56

It's almost like the NFL with the quarterback situation

38:59

that you've been talking about. Just because the last quarterback

39:01

that got a deal made fifty three mil, that doesn't

39:03

mean too.

39:04

Was getting fifth.

39:04

That doesn't mean DA's doing that. And I

39:06

bring this up because Clay Thompson is going to

39:09

be an interesting test case. Somebody's

39:11

just gonna throw dumb money at him and pay

39:13

him thirty five mili and he ain't

39:15

a thirty five million dollar guy.

39:16

Somebody smart would say, Clay,

39:18

we'd love to have you for fifteen to twenty million.

39:20

Yeah, and he's gonna turn up his nose and go for somebody

39:22

chasing big money, which I don't have

39:25

any I think that's smart by him, but a team that does

39:27

that's probably going to be on the dumb side. Right.

39:28

Yeah, I think you said

39:31

the league is pivoting. One of the pivots

39:33

is obvious. European players

39:35

are now the best players in the league. We are

39:37

our AAU system is fundamentally hurting

39:40

the growth of our young players. Tatum

39:42

and ant Booker feel like outliers,

39:45

great domestic players, and this draft

39:47

has more excellent European players. The

39:49

best players, probably a European top

39:51

two guys probably are going to be from France. Right,

39:54

So that's the first thing we're seeing. We are

39:56

seeing explosion, a globalization

39:58

of basketball. The best players now Europeans

40:00

because their system is better than our

40:02

au crappy system, which is about

40:04

getting the bag and Tony tracksuit

40:06

coach and in a million games garbage.

40:09

The second thing we're seeing emerging the

40:12

league is more skilled because it's more Europeans.

40:14

So these guys come in having played with older players.

40:17

The bigs can shoot, they can stretch the floor.

40:20

And I think the third thing is the analytic

40:22

nature of basketball is rewarding the smartest

40:25

people in the game. And so I

40:27

think and you're seeing it. I mean, we always

40:29

worried in this league. Oh, big market Minnesota,

40:32

Denver, okc Indiana were

40:35

the big markets. I mean, Boston is

40:37

it. But Boston's also well

40:40

run. They've been stealing draft picks from people forever.

40:42

So it's these teams that are

40:44

left. They all have one thing in common. They're

40:47

really well run. They're smart teams that

40:49

made smart moves. Dallas made big

40:52

trade deadline move. Everybody

40:54

thought that Nix and the Lakers should Dallas

40:57

did, and you literally have a different

40:59

team. They don't look like the Mavericks in December

41:02

because they're not the Mavericks in They.

41:03

All four of their games against Minnesota were before

41:06

the trade deadline, so Minnesota hasn't seen

41:08

the PJ. Washington, Daniel Gafford,

41:10

they haven't seen this version of Dallas.

41:14

I think it's gonna be a great series.

41:15

I actually the

41:17

staff knows this more than anything in sports.

41:20

My favorite part of sports, this

41:23

is why I love the NFL Draft, is the cultural

41:25

changes. We can break down games all you

41:28

want. Any dummy can break down a game on a Monday,

41:30

But to look at sports beyond on the macro

41:33

level thirty thousand feet, there are real

41:35

changes. They happened in baseball about

41:37

eight to ten years ago. They're happening

41:39

in basketball now for the last three and all

41:42

the smart dudes are being rewarded Minnesota,

41:45

OKC, Indiana, and Boston.

41:48

They're being rewarded our two Colin right,

41:50

wrong, next,