Episode Transcript
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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
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Oh there we go, it's hour two.
0:28
We're live in LA.
0:29
It's The Herd. Wherever
0:32
you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks
0:34
for making us part of your day. I love to see and Drew bletso
0:36
stop buying a golf course. That's one of my favorite
0:38
gets in a while for us. He did not
0:40
have to do that. He's getting hydrated
0:43
today. He was out late at
0:45
the comedy store after the roast last night. So
0:48
that was good stuff. And I appreciate that
0:50
Eric Mangini, who watched all of it, was talking
0:52
to me during the break.
0:55
It really was first of all,
1:00
the joke riding.
1:01
We are so lucky we live in a country
1:03
with so many talented people. Because Mickey
1:06
Glazer, Jeffrey Ross, the other guy, I forget
1:08
Nick what sorry about that. I apologize,
1:11
but the quality of joke writing is
1:13
so good. There's so many funny people out
1:15
there. And I watched that and I was
1:18
like, you know, we are
1:20
surrounded. We're lucky here in Los Angeles. We
1:22
got artists and creators and joke
1:24
writers everywhere, and it was laugh out loud funny.
1:26
So we do it every Monday at this time. Where Colin was
1:29
right, where Colin was wrong, lots of that. Here
1:31
we go where Colin was right. You
1:33
know, I've always said about Joel Embid, you keep telling
1:35
me the superstar, and he can't get past
1:37
the second round of the Eastern Conference
1:39
playoffs. I thought this year in the playoffs,
1:42
he too often played small, He was inconsistent,
1:45
he was a stats monster. He shrunk
1:48
in the fourth quarter. Listen, this NIXT team
1:50
is not real talented. Josh
1:52
Harts, your second leading scorer, was
1:54
a prime example of that. The table was set
1:57
for him. MAXI is now an emerging
1:59
star. It's here for the taking.
2:01
And once again Joe Well
2:04
MB disappointed where
2:06
Colin was raw. I like
2:09
Darvin Ham, I don't love him. I was surprised
2:11
he was fired a week ago. He got a
2:14
vote of support from somebody who leaked
2:16
it to the athletic and now they fired him. That means
2:18
Lebron wanted him out. I
2:20
thought Genie Buss would support him. There's
2:22
been a lot of talk in recent years about Genie
2:24
wanting to control the franchise and
2:27
not having Lebron control it. So
2:29
it does surprise me that they let him go. He
2:31
was more than competent. I didn't know his love, his rotations.
2:34
But again, there's three or four coaches in the league,
2:37
and even those guys get whacked by their fans.
2:39
I was surprised they fired him. Where
2:41
Colin was right, Kawhi played
2:44
only two games, the Clippers lost
2:46
both. I don't really understand
2:48
re signing him to that massive extension
2:50
three years, one hundred and fifty million. What
2:52
do I do? I get leadership? Do I get reliability?
2:55
Do I get consistent production? What do I
2:58
get for that? I mean, the
3:00
last like twenty games of the playoffs, he's
3:02
played like five. Maybe I
3:04
just don't know why the league
3:07
and the Clippers feel like they needed
3:09
I don't know what I'm getting. I don't get
3:11
a verbal leader. I don't get a great
3:14
basketball role model I get I get
3:17
chaos and unpredictability and no reliability.
3:20
Where Colin was raw.
3:22
On my five bold NBA predictions,
3:24
I had the nixt losing in the first round
3:27
of the Sixers, but it was pretty obvious by
3:29
halftime of Game two New York was
3:31
gonna win the series. I mean, listen, Josh
3:33
Hart's not a score and he ended
3:35
up being their second leading scorer
3:37
in the Sixers series. I
3:40
mean, they had six guys averaging double figures.
3:42
It's a very un NBA like
3:45
playoff winning team. One star
3:47
and not much help. I didn't
3:49
even know if if Kyrie and Luca
3:51
could win a series. The fact that Jalen Brunson
3:54
it speaks to a little bit how overrated
3:56
the Sixers are, how weak the East
3:59
is and all so also
4:02
how great Jalen Brunson is.
4:03
Where Colin was right.
4:05
Innocent people don't get stressed out.
4:07
I've said with sho Hey O'tani from the beginning,
4:10
I think he's innocent. Well, he leads baseball
4:12
in several categories. Yesterday, four
4:14
hits, homer twice, Dodgers swept
4:16
the Braves. Otani is playing
4:18
like an innocent man. This is the
4:21
team we expected. The gambling
4:23
scandal, I think it matters to people in the
4:25
gambling industry. Who do that stuff?
4:27
You know, there's a big stories in Vegas. But
4:29
I think think the average baseball fan is a
4:31
casual fan. They don't watch one hundred and sixty two
4:33
games a year, and I think they're over it.
4:35
And I think Otani's playing like an
4:37
innocent man.
4:39
Where Colin was right, Caitlyn Clark.
4:41
Listen, nothing against women's basketball, but this is a Caitlyn
4:43
Clark story, what she's done to women's basketball.
4:46
An exhibition road game,
4:48
sold out. I also think her game
4:51
will translate to the WNBA and she'll
4:53
be a dominant player. She had twenty one points.
4:55
Listen, she just gets open looks.
4:59
Even in the end.
5:00
Lots of guys need screens, they need
5:03
passing, they need help. She doesn't. She
5:05
gets her own shot. It's almost always a good
5:07
shot. And it was a
5:09
sold out WNBA
5:12
exhibition road game.
5:14
That is iconic.
5:16
Where Colin was wrong. I
5:19
didn't trust the Mavericks late in the year when they got
5:21
hot. I told j Mack, I said, you know, late
5:24
NBA season winning streaks when you're playing a bunch
5:26
of tanking teams don't mean anything. But
5:28
did anybody else surprise how good their defense.
5:31
Was the Clippers average one hundred a game
5:33
with Westbrook and Hardin and Paul
5:35
George in a couple of games a Kawhi, they're
5:37
playing unbelievable defense, and
5:40
you know Kyrie. It's not that people didn't like Kyrie,
5:42
it's just you know, know exactly what you're getting.
5:45
But he put on an absolute clinic
5:48
against the Clippers. Where Colin was
5:50
right, told you the Lakers should have avoided
5:52
Denver. I said, when they get beat badly by
5:55
Denver, Darvin Ham's in trouble,
5:57
Lebron will be passive aggressive and
5:59
will women back to chaos. And that's exactly
6:01
what's happened. The Lakers are now looking for
6:04
their eighth coach in
6:06
fourteen years. If that was an NFL
6:09
franchise, we would call that a circus
6:12
eighth coach in fourteen
6:15
years.
6:17
We told you where Colin
6:19
was right.
6:20
Listen, I thought Justin Fields had a
6:22
chance, but every time I watched
6:25
them it diminished. There were rumors
6:27
last week that he may be used as a kick
6:29
returner. They have been squashed, but the fact
6:31
that they became rumors tells
6:34
you all you need to know. Listen, if
6:36
you're honest about it, you look for data points,
6:39
fourth quarter passer rating, completion
6:41
percentage, playing from behind.
6:43
There's no data point.
6:44
That leads you to believe you could
6:46
build your franchise around it. Now he's talented,
6:49
I think somebody else will give him another
6:51
shot to be the guy. Probably
6:54
a two year deal, not a five year deal for huge
6:56
money. But the fact that that was a rumor
6:58
tells you, and that he went
7:00
for a six round pick tells you. People
7:04
looked at the data and don't seem as a franchise
7:06
guy. Where Colin was right, where Colin
7:08
was wrong on a Monday. And from that we go to Eric
7:11
Mangini joining us live. So
7:13
you watch the entire three
7:16
and a half hours. You
7:20
know, the Patriots were always known as so covert,
7:23
and you know, and you watch that, what
7:25
did you make of it?
7:28
It was the most unpatriot thing
7:30
I've ever seen in my life or could
7:33
have ever imagined. I can't wait to watch
7:35
it again. It was it was like
7:38
belly laugh after belly laugh, and
7:41
so many things that were talked about last
7:43
night. Some were
7:45
things that anybody could get and some were things
7:48
where after being there and understanding
7:50
the culture and experiencing it,
7:52
it was just that much, that
7:55
much funnier.
7:56
You know, I thought one of the winners last
7:58
night was Belichick. So regardless
8:00
of my opinion, when Tom left
8:03
New England, he got fun, relatable,
8:05
a little silly, and when
8:07
when when Bill aged, he got a
8:09
little combative and dismissive.
8:12
And that's just not my opinion.
8:14
The league saw that he didn't get any
8:16
interviews except Atlanta. So I thought
8:18
last night Bill lightening up.
8:21
I thought going Manning cast the
8:24
roast like it's almost as if
8:26
Bill understands how he's viewed.
8:27
Now Is that fair?
8:30
Yeah, I don't think he got combative, combative
8:32
and dismiss it. I mean, he had been that way
8:34
since since Cleveland. He never The
8:37
feeling on the media with Bill was always, look,
8:39
if you win, they can't touch you, and if you lose, they
8:42
can't help you. So why do I need to do
8:44
anything with the media. But he did
8:47
have another side, and he
8:49
won in a lot of ways, in the sense
8:52
that I thought he had good
8:54
material and whoever wrote that stuff for him
8:56
what did a nice job, and he delivered it well. Now
8:58
I don't think he necessarily loved the
9:01
toast with Robert Kraft, and
9:03
I know Chris Rock thought he was he
9:05
was bringing two nations together.
9:07
But that's a lot easier toast to make
9:09
if you're the guy that fired someone, as opposed
9:12
to the guy that got fired. They probably didn't
9:14
love that. The the
9:16
onslaught of, you
9:19
know, looking for a job or needed job references,
9:22
and just the players being able to
9:24
take shots at him. That they took
9:26
shots at him in the locker room. That happens with every
9:29
locker room where the guys are joking
9:31
about the head coach, but for them to be able to do it
9:34
publicly and then in
9:36
a lot of ways
9:38
hilariously. I thought, you know,
9:40
it was great, Drew.
9:42
I like Drew Bledsoe. I thought was really funny.
9:45
I mean, when you can joke about Tom's marriage
9:48
former marriage, what did you make I mean, you were
9:50
there for the Bret Bledsoe who'd signed
9:52
one hundred million dollar contract and that was
9:54
always the documentary showed that, how tense
9:57
that was.
9:57
What did you make of him last night?
9:59
I I loved Drew Bloodsoe. I
10:01
loved Drew Bloodsoe off the top. And that
10:03
gives you such a great indication of
10:06
of what Tom was dealing with. So he saw
10:08
how smooth. Drew was he's funny,
10:11
he's poised, six ' five, good
10:13
looking guy. He had one hundred million
10:15
dollar contract, he had taken the team to the super
10:17
Bowl. He was the number one overall
10:19
draft pick. And and and you got a sense
10:21
of his presence last night, you
10:24
know, in a situation that had to be very
10:26
difficult for him, and he had that kind of presence.
10:28
So then Tom comes into the organization. He's
10:31
a six round draft picks. He's
10:33
a little bit nerdy. And the yellow jeep story
10:35
that that Drew told last night is
10:38
one hundred percent true. Tom did drive that yellow
10:40
jeep. And and it's just Tom
10:43
was not Tom when he got there. And Tom
10:45
was nowhere near the guy we saw last night when
10:48
he got there, and and Drew was that
10:50
that presence, And and uh,
10:53
it's it's amazing, you
10:55
know when you when you look back and think of
10:58
the difficult the person that builds did make
11:00
at that point to continue
11:02
on with Tom when you had an
11:04
option to go back to Drew, you know, as
11:06
he got healthy.
11:08
You know, I told Sean Payton when he was
11:10
here, I said this last hour Eric that
11:12
I said, Sean, you've got too many things in your head, you got
11:14
stories to tell. This is fun for you, but you're going
11:16
to go back to coach. Parcells did
11:19
it, went back and Belichick.
11:22
You know, I do think Bill just the
11:24
way you know, he ruminates about the sport and
11:26
thinks about it. I think he's proving that he
11:28
could do media. But I don't
11:30
think I've ever thought, oh, this is what Bill wants to do. Parcells
11:33
dabbled in it but kind of tired of the nonsense
11:35
of it. I think Belichick does
11:37
get another shot to coach. I think he's going to be great
11:39
doing all the stuff here off air for a year.
11:42
But like Peyton, I know his age,
11:45
but Bill was old when he was forty.
11:47
I just don't. I mean, he just he
11:49
was never young to me.
11:50
So I mean I think he's going to coach again, do you.
11:54
Yeah. Bill's been the same guy forever
11:58
as long as I've known him. I've got to know him
12:00
back in what like nineteen ninety
12:02
four. So and that's
12:04
the mark of his
12:06
success too, is his consistency
12:09
and his consistent approach that they have another side.
12:11
Yeah, and people are getting to see
12:13
some of that now when he goes back to coach.
12:16
It's not going to be like he was last
12:18
night, you know, like Chuckles the clown
12:20
doing stand up, you know, at the laugh Factory,
12:22
like he was. That's not who he's going to be
12:25
when he goes back to an organization. He's going to be the
12:27
guy that he always was. So as
12:29
long as you're willing to accept
12:33
the way that he's going to coach and the strengths
12:36
that that brings, and then to some degree
12:38
the weaknesses that that brings, then
12:40
he said, absolutely, get a second
12:42
shot, I mean, or a third shot. There's
12:45
there's not many people that you're going to be able to
12:47
bring in with the wealth of
12:50
information, the volume
12:53
of success and bringing a young coach with
12:55
him that he can then he
12:58
can then tutor to take over once
13:00
he decides leave. So have a succession plan
13:03
in place, and then organizationally, you could be in a
13:05
great spot.
13:06
I got to ask you one NFL question. The
13:08
draft is now officially over. Obviously,
13:11
if you hit on three or four draft picks, they can make
13:13
a team better. There's no question about that. It
13:16
is interesting, I said, if you
13:19
I can't guess how your fifth, sixth, seventh round
13:21
guys are going to be, But if I take your free agents
13:24
and your top two to three picks. I do
13:26
have a pretty good sense with your coaching
13:28
staff if you improved. I think Chicago
13:31
J McK and I have talked about this. I think
13:33
they have a shot to make the playoffs. And that may
13:35
sound crazy with a rookie head, you
13:37
know, a defensive coach. It's Chicago
13:39
and a rookie quarterback, but Man Keenan
13:42
Allen, DeAndre Swift, Roma
13:45
Dunzey, Caleb Williams. I just feel
13:47
like a different offense to me. Is it what's
13:49
realistic to you?
13:52
I thought Chicago should have made the playoffs last
13:54
year. I thought that the progress
13:56
of Justin Fields had made and we
13:58
didn't know whether or not that jump would continue.
14:01
But the amount of pieces that they had
14:03
put in place last year through free agency
14:06
and through the draft was significant.
14:08
And this year they're they're even, they're
14:10
even in a better spot. So let's assume
14:12
that Caleb comes in and and I know
14:14
we're talking about Maddie ever Reflush
14:17
is a defensive head coach, but Matt took
14:19
over the defense late in the year, and when Matt took
14:21
over, the defense improved significantly.
14:24
When he took over his defensive coordinator. So
14:26
I think that should continue to trend along those
14:28
ways. And it's it says volume
14:30
of weapons, and if Caleb can come in
14:33
and and and make the wild plays that we've
14:36
seen him make throughout college without
14:38
trying to press too much. And and that's that's
14:41
my biggest worry column is the
14:43
the you know, I want to be immortal.
14:45
I want to chase all the greats, you
14:47
know, the the amount of bravado and
14:50
expectations that he's putting on himself and
14:52
some degree the organization is as well. That
14:54
can get a guy into pressing to make plays.
14:57
And and I don't think he's going to have to do that with with
14:59
the team they have, and if he doesn't,
15:02
yeah, they could be really
15:04
really good this year.
15:05
Yeah, Eric Manginie, great
15:08
thoughts on the roast is always my friend. I know
15:10
you were laughing because you lived in that world.
15:12
Oh my god, it
15:14
was. I am going to go back and watch again.
15:16
There is such a such a.
15:17
Good good night, all right, good
15:20
seeing you, coach, Take care
15:22
con.
15:22
Yeah, he was there at the very beginning. He was there
15:24
with Drew Bledsoe and that
15:27
documentary. Even if you think
15:29
it you know, took shots
15:31
at Bill. Somebody always feels
15:33
slided. Scotty Pippen felt slided in the MJ
15:35
documentary, But I didn't think it was unrealistic
15:38
or or you know. I mean, Michael Jordan
15:40
said I don't want any of this stuff without Scotty. I
15:43
mean, it was acknowledge he was great. We all knew Scotty
15:45
was great, but it was going to be from Michael's perspective,
15:47
that documentary happens. It's not nearly as interesting
15:50
if you don't have a documentary on us. Michael
15:52
talks, and he's only talking if you're taking his side.
15:55
And so I think the documentary was more the
15:57
Craft family and the Brady side than the Belichick
15:59
side. So I'm okay with it. But we still
16:01
know Scotti Pippen's the best Robin ever. We
16:04
still know Belichick right now is considered the
16:06
best coach ever. It didn't dig him that much.
16:08
It just took some shots. They took liberties
16:11
or they took the angles that favored
16:15
the Craft side. It doesn't make it it inaccurate.
16:18
That's my take. We all know Bill's great. My
16:21
big takeaway on that Apple TV documentary
16:23
was God, Bill was a lot more fun early on,
16:25
like he was funny, and then
16:27
you know, Boston media wears you down.
16:30
It wears down a lot of people. One more
16:32
heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours
16:34
a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio
16:37
app. Search Herd to listen live or
16:39
on demand whenever you like.
16:41
All right, So we were.
16:42
Thinking about if
16:44
you the roast last night
16:47
for the Patriots, Gronk Edelman,
16:49
Brady Belichick, Drew Bledsoe, Kevin
16:52
Hart, a lot of big stars out there, and
16:54
it was very, very funny, and so can I
16:57
I think I can go watch it again, right and go to my little
16:59
neck flip app and watch it again.
17:01
I probably will.
17:03
So I thought, okay, if you look who gets
17:05
credit, because that's generally what breaks
17:07
up dynasties. It breaks up almost
17:10
all NBA dynasties, ego validation.
17:12
Who gets credit? But you're not going to
17:14
have a twenty year empire. I don't care if it's IBM
17:17
or it's the Patriots. People want to take credit.
17:20
Somebody wants to write the book, and that's why you have so many
17:22
good documentaries and people get their feelings
17:24
hurt. But if you had a Patriot
17:26
pyramid in terms of importance.
17:29
I think the top is real easy. Tom's
17:31
the best player at the most important position
17:33
ever. Brady, you know,
17:36
five Super Bowl MVPs has
17:38
He has seven Super Bowls. That's more than any franchise.
17:41
And then just going to Tampa, I
17:44
think validated is greatness. Kind
17:46
of an odd franchise in Tampa that
17:48
always has talent, can never get the quarterback
17:50
right. I think the second
17:53
level is obviously you start with Belichick,
17:56
who, for all of his rigidity
17:58
late in his career, was de facto GM
18:01
and coach for most of it. No
18:03
football coach in the history of the sport has
18:05
six Super Bowls. He is largely viewed
18:08
as defensively the best coach without
18:10
peer in the sport.
18:12
I would not disagree with that.
18:13
I didn't like Bill the GM late in
18:15
his career, but you know, nobody
18:17
can doubt his acumen, his understanding of defense.
18:20
And you know, listen, he ran a tite ship, which
18:22
is hard to do in pro sports. Robert
18:25
Kraft's on that same level.
18:27
And if you think I'm out of my mind, go
18:30
look at how many bad owners there are in the NFL.
18:34
You can count the great owners on one hand.
18:37
There's a dozen bad ownership groups
18:39
in the NFL.
18:40
He didn't meddle.
18:41
You may not like how he portrayed Belichick
18:44
in the Apple TV Duck. He didn't meddle.
18:47
These guys all medal, it's all ego. It's
18:49
the most powerful league in the world,
18:51
along with the English Premier League, and
18:53
so Craft stayed out of it. And the one time,
18:56
the one time he said I'm gonna
18:58
medal with Garoppolo, he was right. Brady
19:01
still had Super Bowls at him, and Garoppolo never became
19:03
as great as Belichick probably thought he was going
19:05
to be. Now it gets interesting
19:08
the third row. I think you have to put Gronk
19:10
on it. He stood for the Patriots
19:12
way, a fun guy who sacrificed
19:15
some personality, a big
19:17
game receiver, and the Patriots were
19:19
the ultimate big game franchise. To
19:21
beat him, you had to be perfect. Four
19:24
time champ, five Pro Bowls. He would
19:26
block, He sacrificed some personality,
19:29
He sacrificed his body. Only Jerry
19:31
Rice has more receiving yards and
19:33
receiving touchdowns in Super Bowl history.
19:36
I would put Teddy Bruski right
19:38
in the middle of this. Bruski in the first
19:40
run was the soul of the franchise.
19:42
It wasn't Brady, it
19:45
wasn't he got three rings out of it. There
19:47
was a reason if you watched the documentary, he
19:49
came across as so smart
19:52
and so well liked. He played in thirteen
19:54
years all with the Patriots, nine playoff
19:57
appearances. He was a defensive captain
19:59
for so seven years. He was the
20:01
soul of the early dynasty.
20:04
It all centered around sort of a do it
20:06
all linebracker with a really high IQ.
20:10
Then I think you have to let's be let's be honest
20:12
here. Ernie Adams was sort
20:14
of the most trusted person in the
20:16
building. He was sort of the guru.
20:19
Nobody talked about him outside of Foxborough.
20:22
He was the director of football research.
20:25
All you need to know is when Bill
20:27
Belichick, he would Bill Belichick would
20:29
listen to Ernie Adams more than any
20:31
single person in the building. He
20:33
was kind of a man of mystery. He held
20:35
several positions behind great
20:38
empirical leaders. There's always
20:40
somebody behind the curtain, and
20:43
he kind of built the scouting department.
20:46
And if you a very very.
20:48
Likable, relatable, funny guy. If
20:50
you watch the documentary, but I think Ernie Adams
20:52
deserves a ton of credit. Bill
20:54
Belichick trusted him more than anybody
20:56
in the organization. Now the final
20:59
the Foundation Final four,
21:01
Edelman listen, he
21:03
was Wes Welcome and Randy Moss
21:06
didn't win super Bowls, he was the
21:08
most important wide receiver
21:10
to Brady. Great third down, great playoff.
21:12
In fact, I think you've can make an argument he's a Hall of Famer
21:14
based on playoff performance. That's how Eli
21:17
Manning's getting into the super Bowl. Third
21:20
all time playoff catches in receiving
21:22
yards has I believe the greatest
21:24
single catch in the history of the Super Bowl. It's not Lin
21:26
Swan, it's
21:29
not David Tyree. It's that catch against
21:31
Atlanta, which even in slow motion
21:34
it is a catch, but you're not sure until
21:36
the very end. To me, it's the greatest catch in the history
21:38
of the Super Bowl. Next to him Dante's
21:41
Garnekia. One of the things that was
21:43
always true about this franchise, Brady
21:45
was always safe. He rarely got
21:48
hit. They never had a bad offensive
21:50
line. They never had one bad offensive line.
21:52
They had secondaries that weren't great, they
21:54
had receiving cors that weren't dynamic. They
21:57
had some running back by committee teams.
21:59
Sometimes they they were a bit creaky at wide receiver.
22:02
They had no bad offensive lines. He
22:04
is, in my opinion, there's
22:06
an argument that he is. I mean, Bob Kraft
22:08
called him like the greatest, one of
22:10
the greatest of all time. Maybe it had been the best, probably
22:13
was the best assistant they ever had never
22:15
wanted to be. He retired, came back Dante's
22:17
Garnekia. They never
22:20
had a bad offensive front
22:22
ever, and they were always better.
22:24
In big games. You're
22:26
gonna roll your eyes at this one. Alex Guerrero.
22:29
Tom Brady pivoted
22:32
about three quarters through his career away
22:34
from the Patriot Way, became more independent.
22:37
And all you need to know is
22:39
that Brady was on the forefront of
22:42
pliability, health,
22:45
nutrition, and wellness in the league. Well,
22:47
that's because of Guerrero and others
22:49
followed suit. If you think
22:52
Brady aged better than any player in
22:54
the history of the sport, and he did, it's
22:56
not on cliff bars and sit ups. It
22:58
was on Alex Guerrero. That's why
23:00
they won their last couple of Super Bowls and why
23:02
Tom won a Super Bowl in Tampa. It
23:04
was his guru with his health and
23:06
then Finally, I think you have to put in Adam Vinnetterry.
23:10
I always laugh when people say you can't draft
23:12
a kicker, are you out of your mind? They're often
23:14
leading scores. He's the NFL's all
23:16
time leading scorer. You can't draft kickers,
23:19
most field goals in NFL history. And again,
23:21
like Brady, like Gronk, like
23:24
Edelman, was often at his best in the biggest
23:26
moments. And so to me, the power
23:29
pyramid. Now now Jmac
23:31
rolled his eyes at Alex Guerrero.
23:34
Now you may stay to yourself. Brady, Gronk,
23:37
Bruce Ki, Guerrero, Edelman,
23:40
a Veniti. You only have five players. But
23:43
if you look at any corpore, if you look at Fox,
23:46
is it just people on camera? I
23:48
mean there's got to be a director of sales, a director
23:50
of production. You know, there's got to be the marketing
23:52
people. I think a big part of why
23:54
this lasted was brilliance behind the scenes.
23:57
A non medaling owner, a brilliant
23:59
coach, the best offensive line coach
24:01
ever. The star had
24:04
his nutrition pliability
24:06
expert Tom he never got hurt. He had
24:08
one season. He was never hurt.
24:10
J Mack. Your reaction to.
24:11
It, Okay, First, of all, I like this. I'm
24:13
not a huge pyramid guy, but I like this. A
24:17
couple that jumped out. I called up. You know some
24:19
Patriots numbers here. So ty
24:23
Law very good, one of
24:26
the great cornerbacks of all time, drafted
24:28
by the Patriots.
24:29
Three Super Bowl rings. Yes, and he doesn't
24:31
make the pyramid. I mean it is two decades.
24:33
But I'm not denying that.
24:34
But how do I keep off the
24:37
leading score in league history? Who
24:39
literally won game?
24:40
Did they take? Vinture?
24:41
Vanetary? Has to make the team has to
24:43
make the lad.
24:44
I don't even know how.
24:45
If Guerrera was a factor for the first ten
24:47
years, we know late in his career he was important
24:49
to.
24:49
Remember, Tom did not
24:51
lead the dynasty early. Tom
24:54
led the second dynasty, which.
24:56
Was the MVPs in the Super Bowl. He wasn't the leader.
24:59
No, I mean early on it was Bruski,
25:01
ty Law Cymore.
25:03
The game manager. Brady was a game manager, but.
25:05
The second one.
25:06
As we've noted before, Tom Brady's
25:09
second dynasty is better
25:11
than ninety percent of careers.
25:13
So when I think of Tom Brady, do
25:15
I think of completed passes? You know what I think about
25:18
Super Bowls and length of career, Guerrero
25:21
is that's the reason why.
25:23
Okay, another one and
25:25
there is a two parter. What's the most
25:28
memorable team from Brady's
25:30
run? This is an easy one. Go ahead, the
25:33
most memorable individual team and during
25:35
that run.
25:35
The record setting Moss team that couldn't win.
25:37
Right, So has Randy mosson on this pyramid?
25:39
I never felt I thought
25:41
he was. I'll give you an example. You
25:44
go to college with a bunch of guys and
25:46
there's always fun guy, drinks too much. You'd
25:48
never ask him for a ride of the airport. You could never
25:50
trust him. He is a fun guy, and
25:52
you guys talk about him all the time when you get
25:54
together for the reunion. But
25:57
he wasn't like somebody you could trust. It wasn't
25:59
like somebody that was there a long time. He
26:01
was fun guy. Randy made the
26:03
Patriots, which they rarely were fun.
26:07
I mean, he was over the top, but
26:10
that didn't win. This franchise
26:12
was always about efficiency details,
26:15
it wasn't about home run, over
26:18
the top. Randy was the
26:20
fun guy at the party, but
26:23
they never relied on Randy. Again,
26:26
you could argue the most talented guy, but
26:29
I never felt like he'd
26:31
be an easy one, right,
26:33
Okay, But I do think some and I've
26:35
said this before, I think the star receivers
26:37
overrated. I think receivers aren't
26:41
find me all the great all time receivers.
26:44
Randy Moss has no Super bowls. Calvin Johnson
26:46
has no Super bowls, Larry Fitzgerald has one.
26:49
I think sometimes we glamorize Larry
26:51
has how many?
26:52
Julio Jones, Oh he went to one.
26:54
He never won one. So arguably the three best received
26:56
Jerry Rice did. But again it was Walsh
26:58
Montana. Rice would be second or third.
27:01
So I think sometimes we look at the star receiver
27:03
and we go, oh my gosh, look at some
27:06
of the most talented receivers of all time. They
27:08
don't even get to Super Bowls. But the most
27:10
talented quarterbacks do, the most talented coaches do, the
27:12
most talented gms do, the most talented old
27:15
lines do, the most talented pass rushers
27:17
do. The most talented receivers don't.
27:18
Okay, and final one the only pushback.
27:21
I never won a Super Bowl, Fitzgerald
27:24
never won one, Moss number one one, Calvin
27:26
Johnson number one one. I mean so, I
27:28
mean it's my thing is they sell tickets
27:30
they're fun. They can be important, but
27:33
it's hard to look not win Super Bowls
27:36
when you have a Mahomes,
27:38
Reid, Brady Belichick.
27:40
That's what the whole sport starts.
27:41
So and the other one. First of all, I'm
27:43
not advocating Edelman off. I was just saying Guerrero
27:46
off. The only pushback I would say on Teddy
27:48
Bruski was Ty Law or Vince
27:50
Wilfork. When I think of the most impactful
27:53
defensive player who it was either Law or
27:55
will Fork.
27:55
It was not Bruskie. But that's just me.
27:57
Who was the captain?
27:58
Who did you rely on? And four defensive
28:01
signals? Who did you rely on?
28:03
I mean that's where Teddy brusk when you
28:05
go to the documentary, and I talked to Teddy a lot
28:08
about this on and off the air. When I was at the other place,
28:11
Teddy again to me the word I keep using,
28:13
kind of the brains and the soul behind the defense. You
28:15
don't als. Edelman's not as talented as
28:18
Randy Moss, but he was more reliable. I
28:21
mean there was the punt returns, there was receiving
28:23
their third down, and he was
28:25
I mean, Edelman was better in the biggest
28:27
moments.
28:28
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
28:30
weekdays and noon eastern non am Pacific.
28:35
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called
28:37
All Ball. We usually talk all basketball
28:39
all the time, but it's more about the stories
28:42
about what made these people love their
28:44
sport and all the interesting interactions
28:47
along the way. We talked to coaches, we
28:49
talked to players, We tell you stories. You
28:52
download it, you listen to it.
28:54
I think you like it.
28:55
Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio
28:58
app, Apple Podcast or
29:00
wherever you get your podcasts.
29:03
Well.
29:03
Jimmy Johnson two Super Bowl champions,
29:06
nine seasons in the NFL, also a
29:09
legend at Miami, so it's interesting he
29:11
lives down in Miami. He coached at Miami twice
29:14
NFL in college. So I was
29:16
thinking when we were bringing you on today, how
29:20
did you look because you're Miami's tropical
29:23
so did you look at that was home
29:25
and advantage? Did you look at your NFL schedule
29:27
and go okay, we got to go up north all
29:29
through you know, December. How did
29:31
you view it as a Miami coach college
29:34
or pro Let's let's stick mostly pro.
29:37
Well.
29:38
The first thing I looked at it was late
29:41
in the season, if I had to go north, and
29:44
if I was going to have to order me some thermal
29:47
underwear. We
29:50
didn't like going into the cold weather. But
29:53
as far as you know, the Dolphin
29:56
Games and the University of Miami
29:59
early in the seas said, we felt like it was
30:01
an advantage because our guys
30:03
practicing the heat and in the humidity,
30:06
and they were accustomed to it. You know, a lot of times
30:09
in the fourth quarter, the opponents they
30:12
would struggle because they weren't accustomed
30:14
to that humidity and that heat.
30:16
I thought it was interesting. Mike
30:19
Zimmer is a very smart defensive
30:22
coordinatories now in Dallas. I
30:25
actually thought Dallas got a little
30:27
bit of a break in their schedule, so
30:29
it's gonna take Mike a while to get that defense
30:32
up and running. And if you start
30:34
looking at November, December, January
30:36
for the Cowboys, I mean they're facing
30:38
Jaden Daniels twice, Daniel Jones
30:41
Carolina. It's a lot of
30:43
young and average quarterbacks. Now,
30:46
am I overstating the fact that
30:48
Zimmer will need time to get the defense right. But I
30:51
look at that and I think, boy, that's about the time Zimmer's
30:53
defense comes into its own.
30:55
What do you make of it?
30:57
Yeah, I think that could be an advantage
31:00
if they are still confident and if
31:02
they're healthy going into last part of their season.
31:05
You know, they've got some difficult games right off the
31:07
bat. You know, for instance, you know, they go up
31:09
to Cleveland, a great defense. You know they're
31:11
gonna have a young offensive
31:14
line that's gonna struggle against you know,
31:16
that pass rush of Cleveland. Then
31:18
the third week they've got Baltimore, you
31:21
know, a physical football team. I
31:24
think the big thing is, you know, the
31:26
Cowboys have got to survive the early part
31:28
of the season. They've got to survive not only
31:31
confidence wise, but also health
31:33
wise. And if they do that, they
31:36
can finish strong.
31:38
Yeah.
31:39
So I actually thought, I
31:41
mean, you know, the NFL is strategic. You
31:43
know, they got they got the Kansas City Chiefs on eight
31:45
different networks. You know, they know what they want to
31:47
do. Uh, they gave jim Harbaughs
31:50
two easiest games to start the season. I'm
31:52
like, oh, they want Jimmy to go to and Oero. But
31:54
it's interesting. I watched Chicago and
31:57
Caleb Williams and you know it
31:59
Fox would love for Chicago to be
32:01
good.
32:01
It's good for your pregame show, It's good for our ratings.
32:04
Jimmy.
32:05
That's Chicago schedule. Not
32:07
only do they open with Tennessee, they
32:09
don't play a top ten defense until week
32:12
eleven. Jimmy, they don't play the Packers,
32:14
Lions, or Vikings a divisional game
32:16
until week eleven. I
32:19
looked at that and I thought, man, that's
32:22
a little bit of a break. They're not on national
32:24
TV much early. I
32:26
kind of thought, if would did you like
32:29
to have your divisional games earlier late?
32:31
If you have a young quarterback, Well,
32:34
with the young quarterback, you'd like to have him
32:36
late, because with Caleb Williams, youong
32:38
he's going to be a player that is going
32:40
to make some spectacular plays because you
32:42
know he's that talented. But by
32:45
the same token, he's a rookie, and
32:47
you know he's got a good supporting cast.
32:50
I think they've got a good football team around
32:52
him. If they can have
32:54
some success early, he
32:56
could come on strong there at the end of the season
32:59
when they have to play those division games.
33:01
You know, I I Jimmy.
33:03
Offensive line is an interesting position.
33:07
You told me once there's not a lot of great
33:09
offensive line coaches. Even at
33:11
your Miami powerhouse Hurricanes, the O
33:13
line is the place you often struggle to get the five
33:16
star guys. And because
33:18
of the new CBA, they don't hit as much
33:20
in practice. Veterans
33:23
don't play in the preseason. And I looked
33:25
at Aaron Rodgers' new offensive line with
33:27
three new guys, a rookie from Penn State,
33:29
and I thought that they
33:33
opened with San Francisco, and I thought that's not a
33:35
good opener for Aaron Rodgers. He's got four new
33:37
offensive linemen. What do you make
33:39
of an older quarterback coming off
33:41
an achilles surgery with a brand
33:43
new offensive line? That worries
33:46
me a little early in the season.
33:47
Should it.
33:50
The offensive line that's going to struggle,
33:53
or because of any experience, would
33:57
have a bigger problem if
33:59
they had a young quarterback. They've
34:02
got a quarterback with Rodgers that's going to get
34:04
rid of the football. Now, he may not make a lot
34:06
of completions way down the field, but
34:09
he's not going to take a lot of hits. And
34:12
I think because of his savvy I
34:15
think he'll be able to protect that offensive line
34:17
until they can kind of get the experience
34:19
and get the roll in here later in the season. The other
34:22
thing is with the Jets, they've got
34:24
a strong enough defense that
34:26
you know, they can probably win some
34:28
games, you know, just for their defense, as
34:31
long as their offense doesn't turn it over. And
34:33
you know, Rogers will be really good at protecting
34:35
the ball. So I think that they're
34:38
going to have a little bit of a cushion with that offensive
34:40
line getting some experience.
34:43
Tom Brady, our new colleague
34:45
at Fox, had an interesting quote about
34:47
c. J. Stroud, and he was talking
34:49
about his humility and
34:52
he said, you know, there is a way to win and
34:54
a way to lose, and a way to celebrate
34:56
as a quarterback. It may not be that for a
34:58
corner ball, linebacker,
35:01
a guard, but quarterback
35:03
is different. I mean, I watched the old films
35:05
with you and Aikman, and he is a coach
35:08
on that when you're when you're got the headset on, he's back
35:10
there coaching. And I want you to address
35:12
that because I've been saying this for years. It does bother
35:15
me if I see Ego, if I see
35:17
her on twelve commercials before you've done anything,
35:21
but I but if you say that to fans they
35:23
don't want to hear it.
35:24
How did you view it?
35:26
Yeah, you like for the quarterback
35:29
to be one of the guys. You know, Troy's best friends
35:31
was the offensive Bland, that's who he hung
35:33
out with. In fact, his best friend was
35:35
probably the deep snapper you
35:37
know on Offensive Blindman and Dale Hell Straight, you
35:39
know, so they
35:42
created a bond. The main thing,
35:45
Yeah, you're going to go through some adversity, and
35:47
so you want the entire team,
35:50
you know, to be backing your quarterback
35:52
and liking your quarterback rather
35:55
than being somewhat jealous of him doing a bunch
35:57
of commercials and having a bunch
35:59
of coms that might offend him. Right,
36:02
So, yeah, you know, the quarterback's
36:04
got to be one of the guys. But the main thing
36:06
is they've got to respect him and
36:08
he's got to have credibility with that group.
36:11
You know, you don't want them being jealous
36:13
of him, and you don't want them not liking
36:16
him. Right.
36:17
Finally, there's the question about Tua
36:20
and I really like him. I
36:22
think he's he reminds me of Dak. He says the
36:24
right stuff, he's respectful. I think
36:26
the players like him. He's a good kid, he
36:28
works hard. I worry about his size. I
36:31
worry about winning games in January and the
36:33
North. His ball doesn't cut through it. I
36:35
worry about his injury history. Jimmy,
36:38
you knew the draft before anybody else figured
36:40
it out. You understood the cap.
36:43
Listen, you start paying quarterbacks mid fifties.
36:46
You can't keep a second tight end, a
36:48
third good corner. You have to make sacrifices.
36:51
What are they going to do in Miami with two
36:54
of the cap and the extension?
36:55
What would you do?
36:58
I think, you know there in situation where
37:00
they have to extend him number
37:03
one to a state healthy last year, which.
37:05
He did a plus and so
37:08
yeah, I think that.
37:09
They have figured out, you know, how to
37:11
protect him, you know how to keep him healthy
37:14
and what kind of supporting cast to give him.
37:17
But yeah, he deserves an
37:19
extension and he will get an extension.
37:22
I think he's a good quarterback, and you know, I like
37:25
what he does. He doesn't have the same talents
37:27
that some other quarterbacks have, but
37:29
he's a winning quarterback.
37:31
Yeah. All right, Jimmy, it's
37:33
eighty one.
37:33
You said today in Miami, it's a little chilly
37:36
here to do it like today, right,
37:39
So let's see what time. I want to see what time it is. So
37:41
it's eleven twelve, So it's two twenty
37:43
eight right now. You live down
37:46
So what is a guy in Miami? Is
37:48
a Hall of Fame coach? At two thirty in
37:50
the afternoon, you're going to wrap up this What
37:53
is the rest of your daylight? Because I like to live
37:55
vicariously through your life. What is
37:57
the rest of your day? Like?
38:00
Well, I'll probably turn on the horse races
38:02
and make a few wagers on the
38:04
horse races for a few hours. Uh.
38:07
And then I've been really into those NBA
38:10
playoffs. I've been watching watching
38:12
them every single night. Of course, my my
38:14
main man worldwide West and Leon
38:17
rose up there with the Knicks. Yeah,
38:19
I'm pulling for the Knicks here tomorrow night.
38:22
Uh and so a little bit of horse
38:24
racing this afternoon, a little bit of uh
38:27
NBA tonight and tomorrow night.
38:29
Uh.
38:30
And then I watched a little golf. You know, Tiger was
38:32
one over today in the PGA. Uh
38:35
and Sheffler you know there
38:38
they're going to have an outstanding PGA tournament
38:40
this weekend.
38:41
That's some life. Awqul Water got
38:44
a couple of boats outside.
38:45
Hey and I may go fishing this weekend. I
38:47
caught it a nice little mahi the other day.
38:50
You know what, man, that you've you've earned
38:52
it. That is a hell of a life. Open
38:54
up. Have one Heineken for me. I know two's
38:57
your limit.
38:57
Have one for me, honey
39:00
and silver. You know they've got to cut down on the calories.
39:02
I'm watching my weight, all right. You
39:04
don't need to. But okay, I talk to you. Good
39:06
seeing you coming, okay, Colin, all right,
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