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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

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Oh there we go, it's hour two.

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We're live in LA.

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It's The Herd. Wherever

0:32

you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks

0:34

for making us part of your day. I love to see and Drew bletso

0:36

stop buying a golf course. That's one of my favorite

0:38

gets in a while for us. He did not

0:40

have to do that. He's getting hydrated

0:43

today. He was out late at

0:45

the comedy store after the roast last night. So

0:48

that was good stuff. And I appreciate that

0:50

Eric Mangini, who watched all of it, was talking

0:52

to me during the break.

0:55

It really was first of all,

1:00

the joke riding.

1:01

We are so lucky we live in a country

1:03

with so many talented people. Because Mickey

1:06

Glazer, Jeffrey Ross, the other guy, I forget

1:08

Nick what sorry about that. I apologize,

1:11

but the quality of joke writing is

1:13

so good. There's so many funny people out

1:15

there. And I watched that and I was

1:18

like, you know, we are

1:20

surrounded. We're lucky here in Los Angeles. We

1:22

got artists and creators and joke

1:24

writers everywhere, and it was laugh out loud funny.

1:26

So we do it every Monday at this time. Where Colin was

1:29

right, where Colin was wrong, lots of that. Here

1:31

we go where Colin was right. You

1:33

know, I've always said about Joel Embid, you keep telling

1:35

me the superstar, and he can't get past

1:37

the second round of the Eastern Conference

1:39

playoffs. I thought this year in the playoffs,

1:42

he too often played small, He was inconsistent,

1:45

he was a stats monster. He shrunk

1:48

in the fourth quarter. Listen, this NIXT team

1:50

is not real talented. Josh

1:52

Harts, your second leading scorer, was

1:54

a prime example of that. The table was set

1:57

for him. MAXI is now an emerging

1:59

star. It's here for the taking.

2:01

And once again Joe Well

2:04

MB disappointed where

2:06

Colin was raw. I like

2:09

Darvin Ham, I don't love him. I was surprised

2:11

he was fired a week ago. He got a

2:14

vote of support from somebody who leaked

2:16

it to the athletic and now they fired him. That means

2:18

Lebron wanted him out. I

2:20

thought Genie Buss would support him. There's

2:22

been a lot of talk in recent years about Genie

2:24

wanting to control the franchise and

2:27

not having Lebron control it. So

2:29

it does surprise me that they let him go. He

2:31

was more than competent. I didn't know his love, his rotations.

2:34

But again, there's three or four coaches in the league,

2:37

and even those guys get whacked by their fans.

2:39

I was surprised they fired him. Where

2:41

Colin was right, Kawhi played

2:44

only two games, the Clippers lost

2:46

both. I don't really understand

2:48

re signing him to that massive extension

2:50

three years, one hundred and fifty million. What

2:52

do I do? I get leadership? Do I get reliability?

2:55

Do I get consistent production? What do I

2:58

get for that? I mean, the

3:00

last like twenty games of the playoffs, he's

3:02

played like five. Maybe I

3:04

just don't know why the league

3:07

and the Clippers feel like they needed

3:09

I don't know what I'm getting. I don't get

3:11

a verbal leader. I don't get a great

3:14

basketball role model I get I get

3:17

chaos and unpredictability and no reliability.

3:20

Where Colin was raw.

3:22

On my five bold NBA predictions,

3:24

I had the nixt losing in the first round

3:27

of the Sixers, but it was pretty obvious by

3:29

halftime of Game two New York was

3:31

gonna win the series. I mean, listen, Josh

3:33

Hart's not a score and he ended

3:35

up being their second leading scorer

3:37

in the Sixers series. I

3:40

mean, they had six guys averaging double figures.

3:42

It's a very un NBA like

3:45

playoff winning team. One star

3:47

and not much help. I didn't

3:49

even know if if Kyrie and Luca

3:51

could win a series. The fact that Jalen Brunson

3:54

it speaks to a little bit how overrated

3:56

the Sixers are, how weak the East

3:59

is and all so also

4:02

how great Jalen Brunson is.

4:03

Where Colin was right.

4:05

Innocent people don't get stressed out.

4:07

I've said with sho Hey O'tani from the beginning,

4:10

I think he's innocent. Well, he leads baseball

4:12

in several categories. Yesterday, four

4:14

hits, homer twice, Dodgers swept

4:16

the Braves. Otani is playing

4:18

like an innocent man. This is the

4:21

team we expected. The gambling

4:23

scandal, I think it matters to people in the

4:25

gambling industry. Who do that stuff?

4:27

You know, there's a big stories in Vegas. But

4:29

I think think the average baseball fan is a

4:31

casual fan. They don't watch one hundred and sixty two

4:33

games a year, and I think they're over it.

4:35

And I think Otani's playing like an

4:37

innocent man.

4:39

Where Colin was right, Caitlyn Clark.

4:41

Listen, nothing against women's basketball, but this is a Caitlyn

4:43

Clark story, what she's done to women's basketball.

4:46

An exhibition road game,

4:48

sold out. I also think her game

4:51

will translate to the WNBA and she'll

4:53

be a dominant player. She had twenty one points.

4:55

Listen, she just gets open looks.

4:59

Even in the end.

5:00

Lots of guys need screens, they need

5:03

passing, they need help. She doesn't. She

5:05

gets her own shot. It's almost always a good

5:07

shot. And it was a

5:09

sold out WNBA

5:12

exhibition road game.

5:14

That is iconic.

5:16

Where Colin was wrong. I

5:19

didn't trust the Mavericks late in the year when they got

5:21

hot. I told j Mack, I said, you know, late

5:24

NBA season winning streaks when you're playing a bunch

5:26

of tanking teams don't mean anything. But

5:28

did anybody else surprise how good their defense.

5:31

Was the Clippers average one hundred a game

5:33

with Westbrook and Hardin and Paul

5:35

George in a couple of games a Kawhi, they're

5:37

playing unbelievable defense, and

5:40

you know Kyrie. It's not that people didn't like Kyrie,

5:42

it's just you know, know exactly what you're getting.

5:45

But he put on an absolute clinic

5:48

against the Clippers. Where Colin was

5:50

right, told you the Lakers should have avoided

5:52

Denver. I said, when they get beat badly by

5:55

Denver, Darvin Ham's in trouble,

5:57

Lebron will be passive aggressive and

5:59

will women back to chaos. And that's exactly

6:01

what's happened. The Lakers are now looking for

6:04

their eighth coach in

6:06

fourteen years. If that was an NFL

6:09

franchise, we would call that a circus

6:12

eighth coach in fourteen

6:15

years.

6:17

We told you where Colin

6:19

was right.

6:20

Listen, I thought Justin Fields had a

6:22

chance, but every time I watched

6:25

them it diminished. There were rumors

6:27

last week that he may be used as a kick

6:29

returner. They have been squashed, but the fact

6:31

that they became rumors tells

6:34

you all you need to know. Listen, if

6:36

you're honest about it, you look for data points,

6:39

fourth quarter passer rating, completion

6:41

percentage, playing from behind.

6:43

There's no data point.

6:44

That leads you to believe you could

6:46

build your franchise around it. Now he's talented,

6:49

I think somebody else will give him another

6:51

shot to be the guy. Probably

6:54

a two year deal, not a five year deal for huge

6:56

money. But the fact that that was a rumor

6:58

tells you, and that he went

7:00

for a six round pick tells you. People

7:04

looked at the data and don't seem as a franchise

7:06

guy. Where Colin was right, where Colin

7:08

was wrong on a Monday. And from that we go to Eric

7:11

Mangini joining us live. So

7:13

you watch the entire three

7:16

and a half hours. You

7:20

know, the Patriots were always known as so covert,

7:23

and you know, and you watch that, what

7:25

did you make of it?

7:28

It was the most unpatriot thing

7:30

I've ever seen in my life or could

7:33

have ever imagined. I can't wait to watch

7:35

it again. It was it was like

7:38

belly laugh after belly laugh, and

7:41

so many things that were talked about last

7:43

night. Some were

7:45

things that anybody could get and some were things

7:48

where after being there and understanding

7:50

the culture and experiencing it,

7:52

it was just that much, that

7:55

much funnier.

7:56

You know, I thought one of the winners last

7:58

night was Belichick. So regardless

8:00

of my opinion, when Tom left

8:03

New England, he got fun, relatable,

8:05

a little silly, and when

8:07

when when Bill aged, he got a

8:09

little combative and dismissive.

8:12

And that's just not my opinion.

8:14

The league saw that he didn't get any

8:16

interviews except Atlanta. So I thought

8:18

last night Bill lightening up.

8:21

I thought going Manning cast the

8:24

roast like it's almost as if

8:26

Bill understands how he's viewed.

8:27

Now Is that fair?

8:30

Yeah, I don't think he got combative, combative

8:32

and dismiss it. I mean, he had been that way

8:34

since since Cleveland. He never The

8:37

feeling on the media with Bill was always, look,

8:39

if you win, they can't touch you, and if you lose, they

8:42

can't help you. So why do I need to do

8:44

anything with the media. But he did

8:47

have another side, and he

8:49

won in a lot of ways, in the sense

8:52

that I thought he had good

8:54

material and whoever wrote that stuff for him

8:56

what did a nice job, and he delivered it well. Now

8:58

I don't think he necessarily loved the

9:01

toast with Robert Kraft, and

9:03

I know Chris Rock thought he was he

9:05

was bringing two nations together.

9:07

But that's a lot easier toast to make

9:09

if you're the guy that fired someone, as opposed

9:12

to the guy that got fired. They probably didn't

9:14

love that. The the

9:16

onslaught of, you

9:19

know, looking for a job or needed job references,

9:22

and just the players being able to

9:24

take shots at him. That they took

9:26

shots at him in the locker room. That happens with every

9:29

locker room where the guys are joking

9:31

about the head coach, but for them to be able to do it

9:34

publicly and then in

9:36

a lot of ways

9:38

hilariously. I thought, you know,

9:40

it was great, Drew.

9:42

I like Drew Bledsoe. I thought was really funny.

9:45

I mean, when you can joke about Tom's marriage

9:48

former marriage, what did you make I mean, you were

9:50

there for the Bret Bledsoe who'd signed

9:52

one hundred million dollar contract and that was

9:54

always the documentary showed that, how tense

9:57

that was.

9:57

What did you make of him last night?

9:59

I I loved Drew Bloodsoe. I

10:01

loved Drew Bloodsoe off the top. And that

10:03

gives you such a great indication of

10:06

of what Tom was dealing with. So he saw

10:08

how smooth. Drew was he's funny,

10:11

he's poised, six ' five, good

10:13

looking guy. He had one hundred million

10:15

dollar contract, he had taken the team to the super

10:17

Bowl. He was the number one overall

10:19

draft pick. And and and you got a sense

10:21

of his presence last night, you

10:24

know, in a situation that had to be very

10:26

difficult for him, and he had that kind of presence.

10:28

So then Tom comes into the organization. He's

10:31

a six round draft picks. He's

10:33

a little bit nerdy. And the yellow jeep story

10:35

that that Drew told last night is

10:38

one hundred percent true. Tom did drive that yellow

10:40

jeep. And and it's just Tom

10:43

was not Tom when he got there. And Tom

10:45

was nowhere near the guy we saw last night when

10:48

he got there, and and Drew was that

10:50

that presence, And and uh,

10:53

it's it's amazing, you

10:55

know when you when you look back and think of

10:58

the difficult the person that builds did make

11:00

at that point to continue

11:02

on with Tom when you had an

11:04

option to go back to Drew, you know, as

11:06

he got healthy.

11:08

You know, I told Sean Payton when he was

11:10

here, I said this last hour Eric that

11:12

I said, Sean, you've got too many things in your head, you got

11:14

stories to tell. This is fun for you, but you're going

11:16

to go back to coach. Parcells did

11:19

it, went back and Belichick.

11:22

You know, I do think Bill just the

11:24

way you know, he ruminates about the sport and

11:26

thinks about it. I think he's proving that he

11:28

could do media. But I don't

11:30

think I've ever thought, oh, this is what Bill wants to do. Parcells

11:33

dabbled in it but kind of tired of the nonsense

11:35

of it. I think Belichick does

11:37

get another shot to coach. I think he's going to be great

11:39

doing all the stuff here off air for a year.

11:42

But like Peyton, I know his age,

11:45

but Bill was old when he was forty.

11:47

I just don't. I mean, he just he

11:49

was never young to me.

11:50

So I mean I think he's going to coach again, do you.

11:54

Yeah. Bill's been the same guy forever

11:58

as long as I've known him. I've got to know him

12:00

back in what like nineteen ninety

12:02

four. So and that's

12:04

the mark of his

12:06

success too, is his consistency

12:09

and his consistent approach that they have another side.

12:11

Yeah, and people are getting to see

12:13

some of that now when he goes back to coach.

12:16

It's not going to be like he was last

12:18

night, you know, like Chuckles the clown

12:20

doing stand up, you know, at the laugh Factory,

12:22

like he was. That's not who he's going to be

12:25

when he goes back to an organization. He's going to be the

12:27

guy that he always was. So as

12:29

long as you're willing to accept

12:33

the way that he's going to coach and the strengths

12:36

that that brings, and then to some degree

12:38

the weaknesses that that brings, then

12:40

he said, absolutely, get a second

12:42

shot, I mean, or a third shot. There's

12:45

there's not many people that you're going to be able to

12:47

bring in with the wealth of

12:50

information, the volume

12:53

of success and bringing a young coach with

12:55

him that he can then he

12:58

can then tutor to take over once

13:00

he decides leave. So have a succession plan

13:03

in place, and then organizationally, you could be in a

13:05

great spot.

13:06

I got to ask you one NFL question. The

13:08

draft is now officially over. Obviously,

13:11

if you hit on three or four draft picks, they can make

13:13

a team better. There's no question about that. It

13:16

is interesting, I said, if you

13:19

I can't guess how your fifth, sixth, seventh round

13:21

guys are going to be, But if I take your free agents

13:24

and your top two to three picks. I do

13:26

have a pretty good sense with your coaching

13:28

staff if you improved. I think Chicago

13:31

J McK and I have talked about this. I think

13:33

they have a shot to make the playoffs. And that may

13:35

sound crazy with a rookie head, you

13:37

know, a defensive coach. It's Chicago

13:39

and a rookie quarterback, but Man Keenan

13:42

Allen, DeAndre Swift, Roma

13:45

Dunzey, Caleb Williams. I just feel

13:47

like a different offense to me. Is it what's

13:49

realistic to you?

13:52

I thought Chicago should have made the playoffs last

13:54

year. I thought that the progress

13:56

of Justin Fields had made and we

13:58

didn't know whether or not that jump would continue.

14:01

But the amount of pieces that they had

14:03

put in place last year through free agency

14:06

and through the draft was significant.

14:08

And this year they're they're even, they're

14:10

even in a better spot. So let's assume

14:12

that Caleb comes in and and I know

14:14

we're talking about Maddie ever Reflush

14:17

is a defensive head coach, but Matt took

14:19

over the defense late in the year, and when Matt took

14:21

over, the defense improved significantly.

14:24

When he took over his defensive coordinator. So

14:26

I think that should continue to trend along those

14:28

ways. And it's it says volume

14:30

of weapons, and if Caleb can come in

14:33

and and and make the wild plays that we've

14:36

seen him make throughout college without

14:38

trying to press too much. And and that's that's

14:41

my biggest worry column is the

14:43

the you know, I want to be immortal.

14:45

I want to chase all the greats, you

14:47

know, the the amount of bravado and

14:50

expectations that he's putting on himself and

14:52

some degree the organization is as well. That

14:54

can get a guy into pressing to make plays.

14:57

And and I don't think he's going to have to do that with with

14:59

the team they have, and if he doesn't,

15:02

yeah, they could be really

15:04

really good this year.

15:05

Yeah, Eric Manginie, great

15:08

thoughts on the roast is always my friend. I know

15:10

you were laughing because you lived in that world.

15:12

Oh my god, it

15:14

was. I am going to go back and watch again.

15:16

There is such a such a.

15:17

Good good night, all right, good

15:20

seeing you, coach, Take care

15:22

con.

15:22

Yeah, he was there at the very beginning. He was there

15:24

with Drew Bledsoe and that

15:27

documentary. Even if you think

15:29

it you know, took shots

15:31

at Bill. Somebody always feels

15:33

slided. Scotty Pippen felt slided in the MJ

15:35

documentary, But I didn't think it was unrealistic

15:38

or or you know. I mean, Michael Jordan

15:40

said I don't want any of this stuff without Scotty. I

15:43

mean, it was acknowledge he was great. We all knew Scotty

15:45

was great, but it was going to be from Michael's perspective,

15:47

that documentary happens. It's not nearly as interesting

15:50

if you don't have a documentary on us. Michael

15:52

talks, and he's only talking if you're taking his side.

15:55

And so I think the documentary was more the

15:57

Craft family and the Brady side than the Belichick

15:59

side. So I'm okay with it. But we still

16:01

know Scotti Pippen's the best Robin ever. We

16:04

still know Belichick right now is considered the

16:06

best coach ever. It didn't dig him that much.

16:08

It just took some shots. They took liberties

16:11

or they took the angles that favored

16:15

the Craft side. It doesn't make it it inaccurate.

16:18

That's my take. We all know Bill's great. My

16:21

big takeaway on that Apple TV documentary

16:23

was God, Bill was a lot more fun early on,

16:25

like he was funny, and then

16:27

you know, Boston media wears you down.

16:30

It wears down a lot of people. One more

16:32

heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours

16:34

a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio

16:37

app. Search Herd to listen live or

16:39

on demand whenever you like.

16:41

All right, So we were.

16:42

Thinking about if

16:44

you the roast last night

16:47

for the Patriots, Gronk Edelman,

16:49

Brady Belichick, Drew Bledsoe, Kevin

16:52

Hart, a lot of big stars out there, and

16:54

it was very, very funny, and so can I

16:57

I think I can go watch it again, right and go to my little

16:59

neck flip app and watch it again.

17:01

I probably will.

17:03

So I thought, okay, if you look who gets

17:05

credit, because that's generally what breaks

17:07

up dynasties. It breaks up almost

17:10

all NBA dynasties, ego validation.

17:12

Who gets credit? But you're not going to

17:14

have a twenty year empire. I don't care if it's IBM

17:17

or it's the Patriots. People want to take credit.

17:20

Somebody wants to write the book, and that's why you have so many

17:22

good documentaries and people get their feelings

17:24

hurt. But if you had a Patriot

17:26

pyramid in terms of importance.

17:29

I think the top is real easy. Tom's

17:31

the best player at the most important position

17:33

ever. Brady, you know,

17:36

five Super Bowl MVPs has

17:38

He has seven Super Bowls. That's more than any franchise.

17:41

And then just going to Tampa, I

17:44

think validated is greatness. Kind

17:46

of an odd franchise in Tampa that

17:48

always has talent, can never get the quarterback

17:50

right. I think the second

17:53

level is obviously you start with Belichick,

17:56

who, for all of his rigidity

17:58

late in his career, was de facto GM

18:01

and coach for most of it. No

18:03

football coach in the history of the sport has

18:05

six Super Bowls. He is largely viewed

18:08

as defensively the best coach without

18:10

peer in the sport.

18:12

I would not disagree with that.

18:13

I didn't like Bill the GM late in

18:15

his career, but you know, nobody

18:17

can doubt his acumen, his understanding of defense.

18:20

And you know, listen, he ran a tite ship, which

18:22

is hard to do in pro sports. Robert

18:25

Kraft's on that same level.

18:27

And if you think I'm out of my mind, go

18:30

look at how many bad owners there are in the NFL.

18:34

You can count the great owners on one hand.

18:37

There's a dozen bad ownership groups

18:39

in the NFL.

18:40

He didn't meddle.

18:41

You may not like how he portrayed Belichick

18:44

in the Apple TV Duck. He didn't meddle.

18:47

These guys all medal, it's all ego. It's

18:49

the most powerful league in the world,

18:51

along with the English Premier League, and

18:53

so Craft stayed out of it. And the one time,

18:56

the one time he said I'm gonna

18:58

medal with Garoppolo, he was right. Brady

19:01

still had Super Bowls at him, and Garoppolo never became

19:03

as great as Belichick probably thought he was going

19:05

to be. Now it gets interesting

19:08

the third row. I think you have to put Gronk

19:10

on it. He stood for the Patriots

19:12

way, a fun guy who sacrificed

19:15

some personality, a big

19:17

game receiver, and the Patriots were

19:19

the ultimate big game franchise. To

19:21

beat him, you had to be perfect. Four

19:24

time champ, five Pro Bowls. He would

19:26

block, He sacrificed some personality,

19:29

He sacrificed his body. Only Jerry

19:31

Rice has more receiving yards and

19:33

receiving touchdowns in Super Bowl history.

19:36

I would put Teddy Bruski right

19:38

in the middle of this. Bruski in the first

19:40

run was the soul of the franchise.

19:42

It wasn't Brady, it

19:45

wasn't he got three rings out of it. There

19:47

was a reason if you watched the documentary, he

19:49

came across as so smart

19:52

and so well liked. He played in thirteen

19:54

years all with the Patriots, nine playoff

19:57

appearances. He was a defensive captain

19:59

for so seven years. He was the

20:01

soul of the early dynasty.

20:04

It all centered around sort of a do it

20:06

all linebracker with a really high IQ.

20:10

Then I think you have to let's be let's be honest

20:12

here. Ernie Adams was sort

20:14

of the most trusted person in the

20:16

building. He was sort of the guru.

20:19

Nobody talked about him outside of Foxborough.

20:22

He was the director of football research.

20:25

All you need to know is when Bill

20:27

Belichick, he would Bill Belichick would

20:29

listen to Ernie Adams more than any

20:31

single person in the building. He

20:33

was kind of a man of mystery. He held

20:35

several positions behind great

20:38

empirical leaders. There's always

20:40

somebody behind the curtain, and

20:43

he kind of built the scouting department.

20:46

And if you a very very.

20:48

Likable, relatable, funny guy. If

20:50

you watch the documentary, but I think Ernie Adams

20:52

deserves a ton of credit. Bill

20:54

Belichick trusted him more than anybody

20:56

in the organization. Now the final

20:59

the Foundation Final four,

21:01

Edelman listen, he

21:03

was Wes Welcome and Randy Moss

21:06

didn't win super Bowls, he was the

21:08

most important wide receiver

21:10

to Brady. Great third down, great playoff.

21:12

In fact, I think you've can make an argument he's a Hall of Famer

21:14

based on playoff performance. That's how Eli

21:17

Manning's getting into the super Bowl. Third

21:20

all time playoff catches in receiving

21:22

yards has I believe the greatest

21:24

single catch in the history of the Super Bowl. It's not Lin

21:26

Swan, it's

21:29

not David Tyree. It's that catch against

21:31

Atlanta, which even in slow motion

21:34

it is a catch, but you're not sure until

21:36

the very end. To me, it's the greatest catch in the history

21:38

of the Super Bowl. Next to him Dante's

21:41

Garnekia. One of the things that was

21:43

always true about this franchise, Brady

21:45

was always safe. He rarely got

21:48

hit. They never had a bad offensive

21:50

line. They never had one bad offensive line.

21:52

They had secondaries that weren't great, they

21:54

had receiving cors that weren't dynamic. They

21:57

had some running back by committee teams.

21:59

Sometimes they they were a bit creaky at wide receiver.

22:02

They had no bad offensive lines. He

22:04

is, in my opinion, there's

22:06

an argument that he is. I mean, Bob Kraft

22:08

called him like the greatest, one of

22:10

the greatest of all time. Maybe it had been the best, probably

22:13

was the best assistant they ever had never

22:15

wanted to be. He retired, came back Dante's

22:17

Garnekia. They never

22:20

had a bad offensive front

22:22

ever, and they were always better.

22:24

In big games. You're

22:26

gonna roll your eyes at this one. Alex Guerrero.

22:29

Tom Brady pivoted

22:32

about three quarters through his career away

22:34

from the Patriot Way, became more independent.

22:37

And all you need to know is

22:39

that Brady was on the forefront of

22:42

pliability, health,

22:45

nutrition, and wellness in the league. Well,

22:47

that's because of Guerrero and others

22:49

followed suit. If you think

22:52

Brady aged better than any player in

22:54

the history of the sport, and he did, it's

22:56

not on cliff bars and sit ups. It

22:58

was on Alex Guerrero. That's why

23:00

they won their last couple of Super Bowls and why

23:02

Tom won a Super Bowl in Tampa. It

23:04

was his guru with his health and

23:06

then Finally, I think you have to put in Adam Vinnetterry.

23:10

I always laugh when people say you can't draft

23:12

a kicker, are you out of your mind? They're often

23:14

leading scores. He's the NFL's all

23:16

time leading scorer. You can't draft kickers,

23:19

most field goals in NFL history. And again,

23:21

like Brady, like Gronk, like

23:24

Edelman, was often at his best in the biggest

23:26

moments. And so to me, the power

23:29

pyramid. Now now Jmac

23:31

rolled his eyes at Alex Guerrero.

23:34

Now you may stay to yourself. Brady, Gronk,

23:37

Bruce Ki, Guerrero, Edelman,

23:40

a Veniti. You only have five players. But

23:43

if you look at any corpore, if you look at Fox,

23:46

is it just people on camera? I

23:48

mean there's got to be a director of sales, a director

23:50

of production. You know, there's got to be the marketing

23:52

people. I think a big part of why

23:54

this lasted was brilliance behind the scenes.

23:57

A non medaling owner, a brilliant

23:59

coach, the best offensive line coach

24:01

ever. The star had

24:04

his nutrition pliability

24:06

expert Tom he never got hurt. He had

24:08

one season. He was never hurt.

24:10

J Mack. Your reaction to.

24:11

It, Okay, First, of all, I like this. I'm

24:13

not a huge pyramid guy, but I like this. A

24:17

couple that jumped out. I called up. You know some

24:19

Patriots numbers here. So ty

24:23

Law very good, one of

24:26

the great cornerbacks of all time, drafted

24:28

by the Patriots.

24:29

Three Super Bowl rings. Yes, and he doesn't

24:31

make the pyramid. I mean it is two decades.

24:33

But I'm not denying that.

24:34

But how do I keep off the

24:37

leading score in league history? Who

24:39

literally won game?

24:40

Did they take? Vinture?

24:41

Vanetary? Has to make the team has to

24:43

make the lad.

24:44

I don't even know how.

24:45

If Guerrera was a factor for the first ten

24:47

years, we know late in his career he was important

24:49

to.

24:49

Remember, Tom did not

24:51

lead the dynasty early. Tom

24:54

led the second dynasty, which.

24:56

Was the MVPs in the Super Bowl. He wasn't the leader.

24:59

No, I mean early on it was Bruski,

25:01

ty Law Cymore.

25:03

The game manager. Brady was a game manager, but.

25:05

The second one.

25:06

As we've noted before, Tom Brady's

25:09

second dynasty is better

25:11

than ninety percent of careers.

25:13

So when I think of Tom Brady, do

25:15

I think of completed passes? You know what I think about

25:18

Super Bowls and length of career, Guerrero

25:21

is that's the reason why.

25:23

Okay, another one and

25:25

there is a two parter. What's the most

25:28

memorable team from Brady's

25:30

run? This is an easy one. Go ahead, the

25:33

most memorable individual team and during

25:35

that run.

25:35

The record setting Moss team that couldn't win.

25:37

Right, So has Randy mosson on this pyramid?

25:39

I never felt I thought

25:41

he was. I'll give you an example. You

25:44

go to college with a bunch of guys and

25:46

there's always fun guy, drinks too much. You'd

25:48

never ask him for a ride of the airport. You could never

25:50

trust him. He is a fun guy, and

25:52

you guys talk about him all the time when you get

25:54

together for the reunion. But

25:57

he wasn't like somebody you could trust. It wasn't

25:59

like somebody that was there a long time. He

26:01

was fun guy. Randy made the

26:03

Patriots, which they rarely were fun.

26:07

I mean, he was over the top, but

26:10

that didn't win. This franchise

26:12

was always about efficiency details,

26:15

it wasn't about home run, over

26:18

the top. Randy was the

26:20

fun guy at the party, but

26:23

they never relied on Randy. Again,

26:26

you could argue the most talented guy, but

26:29

I never felt like he'd

26:31

be an easy one, right,

26:33

Okay, But I do think some and I've

26:35

said this before, I think the star receivers

26:37

overrated. I think receivers aren't

26:41

find me all the great all time receivers.

26:44

Randy Moss has no Super bowls. Calvin Johnson

26:46

has no Super bowls, Larry Fitzgerald has one.

26:49

I think sometimes we glamorize Larry

26:51

has how many?

26:52

Julio Jones, Oh he went to one.

26:54

He never won one. So arguably the three best received

26:56

Jerry Rice did. But again it was Walsh

26:58

Montana. Rice would be second or third.

27:01

So I think sometimes we look at the star receiver

27:03

and we go, oh my gosh, look at some

27:06

of the most talented receivers of all time. They

27:08

don't even get to Super Bowls. But the most

27:10

talented quarterbacks do, the most talented coaches do, the

27:12

most talented gms do, the most talented old

27:15

lines do, the most talented pass rushers

27:17

do. The most talented receivers don't.

27:18

Okay, and final one the only pushback.

27:21

I never won a Super Bowl, Fitzgerald

27:24

never won one, Moss number one one, Calvin

27:26

Johnson number one one. I mean so, I

27:28

mean it's my thing is they sell tickets

27:30

they're fun. They can be important, but

27:33

it's hard to look not win Super Bowls

27:36

when you have a Mahomes,

27:38

Reid, Brady Belichick.

27:40

That's what the whole sport starts.

27:41

So and the other one. First of all, I'm

27:43

not advocating Edelman off. I was just saying Guerrero

27:46

off. The only pushback I would say on Teddy

27:48

Bruski was Ty Law or Vince

27:50

Wilfork. When I think of the most impactful

27:53

defensive player who it was either Law or

27:55

will Fork.

27:55

It was not Bruskie. But that's just me.

27:57

Who was the captain?

27:58

Who did you rely on? And four defensive

28:01

signals? Who did you rely on?

28:03

I mean that's where Teddy brusk when you

28:05

go to the documentary, and I talked to Teddy a lot

28:08

about this on and off the air. When I was at the other place,

28:11

Teddy again to me the word I keep using,

28:13

kind of the brains and the soul behind the defense. You

28:15

don't als. Edelman's not as talented as

28:18

Randy Moss, but he was more reliable. I

28:21

mean there was the punt returns, there was receiving

28:23

their third down, and he was

28:25

I mean, Edelman was better in the biggest

28:27

moments.

28:28

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd

28:30

weekdays and noon eastern non am Pacific.

28:35

Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called

28:37

All Ball. We usually talk all basketball

28:39

all the time, but it's more about the stories

28:42

about what made these people love their

28:44

sport and all the interesting interactions

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28:49

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28:55

Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio

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wherever you get your podcasts.

29:03

Well.

29:03

Jimmy Johnson two Super Bowl champions,

29:06

nine seasons in the NFL, also a

29:09

legend at Miami, so it's interesting he

29:11

lives down in Miami. He coached at Miami twice

29:14

NFL in college. So I was

29:16

thinking when we were bringing you on today, how

29:20

did you look because you're Miami's tropical

29:23

so did you look at that was home

29:25

and advantage? Did you look at your NFL schedule

29:27

and go okay, we got to go up north all

29:29

through you know, December. How did

29:31

you view it as a Miami coach college

29:34

or pro Let's let's stick mostly pro.

29:37

Well.

29:38

The first thing I looked at it was late

29:41

in the season, if I had to go north, and

29:44

if I was going to have to order me some thermal

29:47

underwear. We

29:50

didn't like going into the cold weather. But

29:53

as far as you know, the Dolphin

29:56

Games and the University of Miami

29:59

early in the seas said, we felt like it was

30:01

an advantage because our guys

30:03

practicing the heat and in the humidity,

30:06

and they were accustomed to it. You know, a lot of times

30:09

in the fourth quarter, the opponents they

30:12

would struggle because they weren't accustomed

30:14

to that humidity and that heat.

30:16

I thought it was interesting. Mike

30:19

Zimmer is a very smart defensive

30:22

coordinatories now in Dallas. I

30:25

actually thought Dallas got a little

30:27

bit of a break in their schedule, so

30:29

it's gonna take Mike a while to get that defense

30:32

up and running. And if you start

30:34

looking at November, December, January

30:36

for the Cowboys, I mean they're facing

30:38

Jaden Daniels twice, Daniel Jones

30:41

Carolina. It's a lot of

30:43

young and average quarterbacks. Now,

30:46

am I overstating the fact that

30:48

Zimmer will need time to get the defense right. But I

30:51

look at that and I think, boy, that's about the time Zimmer's

30:53

defense comes into its own.

30:55

What do you make of it?

30:57

Yeah, I think that could be an advantage

31:00

if they are still confident and if

31:02

they're healthy going into last part of their season.

31:05

You know, they've got some difficult games right off the

31:07

bat. You know, for instance, you know, they go up

31:09

to Cleveland, a great defense. You know they're

31:11

gonna have a young offensive

31:14

line that's gonna struggle against you know,

31:16

that pass rush of Cleveland. Then

31:18

the third week they've got Baltimore, you

31:21

know, a physical football team. I

31:24

think the big thing is, you know, the

31:26

Cowboys have got to survive the early part

31:28

of the season. They've got to survive not only

31:31

confidence wise, but also health

31:33

wise. And if they do that, they

31:36

can finish strong.

31:38

Yeah.

31:39

So I actually thought, I

31:41

mean, you know, the NFL is strategic. You

31:43

know, they got they got the Kansas City Chiefs on eight

31:45

different networks. You know, they know what they want to

31:47

do. Uh, they gave jim Harbaughs

31:50

two easiest games to start the season. I'm

31:52

like, oh, they want Jimmy to go to and Oero. But

31:54

it's interesting. I watched Chicago and

31:57

Caleb Williams and you know it

31:59

Fox would love for Chicago to be

32:01

good.

32:01

It's good for your pregame show, It's good for our ratings.

32:04

Jimmy.

32:05

That's Chicago schedule. Not

32:07

only do they open with Tennessee, they

32:09

don't play a top ten defense until week

32:12

eleven. Jimmy, they don't play the Packers,

32:14

Lions, or Vikings a divisional game

32:16

until week eleven. I

32:19

looked at that and I thought, man, that's

32:22

a little bit of a break. They're not on national

32:24

TV much early. I

32:26

kind of thought, if would did you like

32:29

to have your divisional games earlier late?

32:31

If you have a young quarterback, Well,

32:34

with the young quarterback, you'd like to have him

32:36

late, because with Caleb Williams, youong

32:38

he's going to be a player that is going

32:40

to make some spectacular plays because you

32:42

know he's that talented. But by

32:45

the same token, he's a rookie, and

32:47

you know he's got a good supporting cast.

32:50

I think they've got a good football team around

32:52

him. If they can have

32:54

some success early, he

32:56

could come on strong there at the end of the season

32:59

when they have to play those division games.

33:01

You know, I I Jimmy.

33:03

Offensive line is an interesting position.

33:07

You told me once there's not a lot of great

33:09

offensive line coaches. Even at

33:11

your Miami powerhouse Hurricanes, the O

33:13

line is the place you often struggle to get the five

33:16

star guys. And because

33:18

of the new CBA, they don't hit as much

33:20

in practice. Veterans

33:23

don't play in the preseason. And I looked

33:25

at Aaron Rodgers' new offensive line with

33:27

three new guys, a rookie from Penn State,

33:29

and I thought that they

33:33

opened with San Francisco, and I thought that's not a

33:35

good opener for Aaron Rodgers. He's got four new

33:37

offensive linemen. What do you make

33:39

of an older quarterback coming off

33:41

an achilles surgery with a brand

33:43

new offensive line? That worries

33:46

me a little early in the season.

33:47

Should it.

33:50

The offensive line that's going to struggle,

33:53

or because of any experience, would

33:57

have a bigger problem if

33:59

they had a young quarterback. They've

34:02

got a quarterback with Rodgers that's going to get

34:04

rid of the football. Now, he may not make a lot

34:06

of completions way down the field, but

34:09

he's not going to take a lot of hits. And

34:12

I think because of his savvy I

34:15

think he'll be able to protect that offensive line

34:17

until they can kind of get the experience

34:19

and get the roll in here later in the season. The other

34:22

thing is with the Jets, they've got

34:24

a strong enough defense that

34:26

you know, they can probably win some

34:28

games, you know, just for their defense, as

34:31

long as their offense doesn't turn it over. And

34:33

you know, Rogers will be really good at protecting

34:35

the ball. So I think that they're

34:38

going to have a little bit of a cushion with that offensive

34:40

line getting some experience.

34:43

Tom Brady, our new colleague

34:45

at Fox, had an interesting quote about

34:47

c. J. Stroud, and he was talking

34:49

about his humility and

34:52

he said, you know, there is a way to win and

34:54

a way to lose, and a way to celebrate

34:56

as a quarterback. It may not be that for a

34:58

corner ball, linebacker,

35:01

a guard, but quarterback

35:03

is different. I mean, I watched the old films

35:05

with you and Aikman, and he is a coach

35:08

on that when you're when you're got the headset on, he's back

35:10

there coaching. And I want you to address

35:12

that because I've been saying this for years. It does bother

35:15

me if I see Ego, if I see

35:17

her on twelve commercials before you've done anything,

35:21

but I but if you say that to fans they

35:23

don't want to hear it.

35:24

How did you view it?

35:26

Yeah, you like for the quarterback

35:29

to be one of the guys. You know, Troy's best friends

35:31

was the offensive Bland, that's who he hung

35:33

out with. In fact, his best friend was

35:35

probably the deep snapper you

35:37

know on Offensive Blindman and Dale Hell Straight, you

35:39

know, so they

35:42

created a bond. The main thing,

35:45

Yeah, you're going to go through some adversity, and

35:47

so you want the entire team,

35:50

you know, to be backing your quarterback

35:52

and liking your quarterback rather

35:55

than being somewhat jealous of him doing a bunch

35:57

of commercials and having a bunch

35:59

of coms that might offend him. Right,

36:02

So, yeah, you know, the quarterback's

36:04

got to be one of the guys. But the main thing

36:06

is they've got to respect him and

36:08

he's got to have credibility with that group.

36:11

You know, you don't want them being jealous

36:13

of him, and you don't want them not liking

36:16

him. Right.

36:17

Finally, there's the question about Tua

36:20

and I really like him. I

36:22

think he's he reminds me of Dak. He says the

36:24

right stuff, he's respectful. I think

36:26

the players like him. He's a good kid, he

36:28

works hard. I worry about his size. I

36:31

worry about winning games in January and the

36:33

North. His ball doesn't cut through it. I

36:35

worry about his injury history. Jimmy,

36:38

you knew the draft before anybody else figured

36:40

it out. You understood the cap.

36:43

Listen, you start paying quarterbacks mid fifties.

36:46

You can't keep a second tight end, a

36:48

third good corner. You have to make sacrifices.

36:51

What are they going to do in Miami with two

36:54

of the cap and the extension?

36:55

What would you do?

36:58

I think, you know there in situation where

37:00

they have to extend him number

37:03

one to a state healthy last year, which.

37:05

He did a plus and so

37:08

yeah, I think that.

37:09

They have figured out, you know, how to

37:11

protect him, you know how to keep him healthy

37:14

and what kind of supporting cast to give him.

37:17

But yeah, he deserves an

37:19

extension and he will get an extension.

37:22

I think he's a good quarterback, and you know, I like

37:25

what he does. He doesn't have the same talents

37:27

that some other quarterbacks have, but

37:29

he's a winning quarterback.

37:31

Yeah. All right, Jimmy, it's

37:33

eighty one.

37:33

You said today in Miami, it's a little chilly

37:36

here to do it like today, right,

37:39

So let's see what time. I want to see what time it is. So

37:41

it's eleven twelve, So it's two twenty

37:43

eight right now. You live down

37:46

So what is a guy in Miami? Is

37:48

a Hall of Fame coach? At two thirty in

37:50

the afternoon, you're going to wrap up this What

37:53

is the rest of your daylight? Because I like to live

37:55

vicariously through your life. What is

37:57

the rest of your day? Like?

38:00

Well, I'll probably turn on the horse races

38:02

and make a few wagers on the

38:04

horse races for a few hours. Uh.

38:07

And then I've been really into those NBA

38:10

playoffs. I've been watching watching

38:12

them every single night. Of course, my my

38:14

main man worldwide West and Leon

38:17

rose up there with the Knicks. Yeah,

38:19

I'm pulling for the Knicks here tomorrow night.

38:22

Uh and so a little bit of horse

38:24

racing this afternoon, a little bit of uh

38:27

NBA tonight and tomorrow night.

38:29

Uh.

38:30

And then I watched a little golf. You know, Tiger was

38:32

one over today in the PGA. Uh

38:35

and Sheffler you know there

38:38

they're going to have an outstanding PGA tournament

38:40

this weekend.

38:41

That's some life. Awqul Water got

38:44

a couple of boats outside.

38:45

Hey and I may go fishing this weekend. I

38:47

caught it a nice little mahi the other day.

38:50

You know what, man, that you've you've earned

38:52

it. That is a hell of a life. Open

38:54

up. Have one Heineken for me. I know two's

38:57

your limit.

38:57

Have one for me, honey

39:00

and silver. You know they've got to cut down on the calories.

39:02

I'm watching my weight, all right. You

39:04

don't need to. But okay, I talk to you. Good

39:06

seeing you coming, okay, Colin, all right,