0:00

Hey, heart listeners. I

0:02

want to tell you about a

0:04

new miniseries from Benjamin Walker's Theory

0:07

of Everything. It's called Not All

0:09

Propaganda is Art. Back in the

0:11

1950s, spy agencies like

0:13

the CIA used writers and artists

0:15

to fight a cultural Cold War.

0:18

Three writers got caught up in this war

0:20

as collaborators and as targets.

0:23

The propaganda from this time period didn't just

0:25

win the Cold War, it made

0:27

the world we live in today. Not

0:30

All Propaganda is Art is running on

0:32

the Theory of Everything podcast with weekly

0:35

episodes. Find it wherever

0:37

you get your podcasts. From

0:39

Mermaid Palace and Radiotopia, welcome

0:44

to the heart. I'm

0:48

Caitlin Prest. This

0:52

is the last episode of

0:55

The Shadows. If

0:57

you're just coming in now, go back to

0:59

the episode called Romantic and start

1:01

there. Before I

1:03

play each episode, I've been spending a little

1:06

bit of time letting you in on the

1:08

story underneath. The story, the

1:11

people, and the relationships that helped

1:13

me make this project with the CBC back

1:16

in 2018. On this episode, I introduce you to

1:18

Brendan Baker. But first, we go back in time. It's

1:39

2010. I've just moved

1:41

to New York. I'm 24 years

1:43

old, and I've fallen hard

1:47

for an extremely obscure creative medium that

1:49

I believe will soon be recognized by

1:51

the world as high art.

1:55

I believe that one day soon it will appear in

1:57

the New York Times Art Section. its

2:00

own heading, right beside

2:02

dance and theater

2:05

and literature. I

2:08

believe that people who use this extremely

2:11

obscure creative medium should

2:13

be called artists. The

2:17

Caitlin Prest in the world of the

2:19

shadows feels this

2:21

way about poetry. The

2:25

Caitlin Prest, who is 24 and

2:27

just moved to New York, felt

2:29

this way about radio.

2:36

There was one person in particular who

2:39

also believed it was art. The judges

2:42

unanimously chose this next story

2:44

for their top prize. I admired this person

2:46

from afar. The show was produced by Brendan

2:48

Baker, the sound design by

2:53

Brendan Baker. He was a star. The best of

2:55

the best of the best. More than

2:57

a star, he was brilliantly

3:00

talented, like nothing they'd ever

3:02

heard before. Everything

3:04

that you've been hearing underneath my voice

3:06

and the different award-winning stories that he's

3:09

created. I had just

3:12

moved to live here with a few

3:14

of my friends, but I

3:16

had only saved up about

3:18

$500. So within

3:20

a month or two, that money was

3:22

gone because I'm not really responsible with

3:24

my money. In his work, I

3:26

heard what I hoped

3:28

to one day be able to do to

3:35

create radio stories that

3:37

were just as layered and sonically expansive as

3:40

a piece of music. As

3:46

aesthetically immersive as a great work

3:48

of cinema. So

3:51

I flipped the postcard over and

3:53

handwritten and very well penned,

3:55

beautiful ink, it

3:57

says, dearest

3:59

Rachel, It's winter now, but

4:01

I found myself with no plans today.

4:04

So I took this subway to Coney Island. Remember

4:07

that day, Luna Park, People Chase?

4:10

We splurged and went to Feldman's. Today

4:13

I only had a nickel, so it was Nathan's for me.

4:16

It's pretty lonely out here. So where

4:18

were we? Stories

4:22

that used sound, the

4:24

way that a painter would use paint, the

4:27

way that used panning and reverb and all of

4:29

the other things that I didn't even know the

4:32

names of yet, the way that a painter would

4:34

use a paintbrush. The

4:39

difference between me and Brendan Baker

4:41

was that he was

4:44

very good. The following

4:46

contains mature subject matter. I

4:48

was still not very good yet and

4:51

is intended for mature audiences only. This

4:54

is what I made in 2010. Feeling that

4:56

I had a firm grasp on how people can

4:58

love a tree, I still felt a little confused

5:00

about how people take that love to the next

5:02

level. Nobody told me how

5:04

they make love to a tree. So

5:08

I decided to take a walk on the mountain

5:11

and figure it out for myself. Alright, so

5:14

this is my dendrophilic

5:17

adventure. But

5:20

wait, I don't actually know why phantom power makes it

5:22

sound better. Why does it pick up

5:24

more detail? In 2012, Brendan

5:26

went from being an artist that I looked up

5:28

to... ...to

5:33

being an artist whose apartment

5:35

I was sitting inside of. He

5:42

was very buttoned up, very

5:45

professional and reserved. Can

5:50

we close for a minute? I

5:53

always tell people, like, I'm gonna be a

5:55

little unnaturally close. He had agreed to do

5:57

an interview. Do

6:00

you want to hold it that way? Do

6:03

you want to borrow mine? It was for

6:05

my unknown and uncelebrated radio show audio

6:07

smite for

6:10

breakfast I Hope

6:13

I brush my teeth the intuition episode

6:19

Think you can follow your intuition and also

6:21

not necessarily be an impulsive person. It's just

6:23

sort of like Okay, wait, can we sit

6:25

on your bed? I I

6:28

can't sit in a chair. We were opposites I'm

6:32

sorry. I just can't it's just not the way I

6:34

can't that's not how I roll. Okay. Okay

6:38

Yeah, I guess I would consider myself a

6:40

rational person like I with a surprising lack

6:42

of shame and a lot of determination Brendan

6:46

became someone That I

6:48

saw all the time The

6:50

radio co-working group that I found a way

6:52

to get myself invited to ruining our ears

6:54

Mixing in coffee shops around Brooklyn sitting

6:56

on the floor eating kale salad at a

6:58

potluck group of people who are sharing their

7:00

unfinished Basically the same group of people who are in

7:02

the cold something that we called I

7:12

asked Brendan Baker if he would perform in an event

7:15

that I was putting on That's

7:20

because He

7:23

spent his own tech rehearsal helping everybody else

7:25

with their tech so he's forgotten

7:27

some important elements of the tech As

7:34

an audio guy I should know that I Hello,

7:45

welcome to the new audio smut

7:47

the podcast audio smut is putting on performances

7:49

in the back of a feminist sex show

7:56

And when it's over How

7:59

I made But I need it with this

8:01

part. And

8:27

then I start an ongoing dialogue about

8:29

our different approaches to sound design. Illinois

9:02

radio So,

9:20

today we're going to talk about sound design and the ideas and concepts that

9:25

guide us as sound designers. Everybody really wants to hear from

9:27

Brendan Baker but he's insisting that they also hear from me It

9:29

shouldn't be icing on the cake, it should be baked into

9:32

the cake. Sound design

9:34

is one of the many ingredients that sort of go

9:36

into the recipe. Exactly. I

9:39

think another thing that I hear a lot

9:41

from aspiring radio producers

9:44

is that sound design is kind

9:46

of like, ooh, I don't know how to do that. It

9:48

was three years of late nights plugging

9:50

headphones into splitters and listening

9:52

to things together as they announced

9:55

last call in the cafes that stayed open

9:57

until midnight. Three years of the

9:59

majority of my phone calls going

10:01

straight to the answering machine.

10:03

Brendan became more than

10:06

a collaborator. It took a

10:08

very long time but I finally became somebody

10:10

the Brendan Baker became a

10:13

friend. I

10:17

hear like a shit

10:20

ton of violas like in

10:23

that range. But

10:26

with lots of reverb animals. Why

10:30

reverb? Like so that

10:32

they become a thousand voices. I

10:36

like the thousand voices but somehow I hear

10:38

like I can sort of hear the violas

10:41

but like

10:43

really dry like really like crispy almost

10:46

like light snow or something kind of

10:48

a very brittle like

10:50

ethereal light. Yeah

10:54

yeah and then first of all everyone

10:56

who knows both of you knows about your crush.

10:59

I think it hasn't gotten to

11:01

him. Brendan Baker became

11:03

a crush. I don't know maybe. A

11:06

crush. I can

11:08

imagine him being like no she

11:10

doesn't. And the person being like she does. She

11:13

does. She told me. Yeah right she has

11:15

a crush on everyone. In

11:18

the fall of 2014 I gathered the courage to ask him if he wanted

11:21

to sleep over. He

11:29

said okay. And

11:32

what ensued was a level of

11:35

snuggling that felt un-blatonic.

11:40

At least to me. It

11:46

hasn't been a week since Brendan's left in my bed. And

11:49

I've wondered once each day since then

11:51

whether it was special to him. Did

11:53

he think about returning to that place where we were

11:56

allowed to touch each other like more than friends. What

11:58

you're hearing right now is. 28 year old me

12:01

reading my diary from after that night.

12:05

I searched for evidence in our hug hello

12:07

or hug goodbye our mutual excitement to be

12:09

sitting beside each other at a cafe working

12:12

all things we'd done a hundred times with

12:14

the hug longer it felt different

12:17

the melting in element was there and

12:20

maybe that was all that would result from

12:23

now on our hugs would remember the

12:26

hug would be where it lived forever until

12:28

it died and the hugs became normal

12:30

hugs again the sleepover with relatively innocent

12:33

snuggling phase lasted for

12:35

months until

12:37

finally our

12:40

friendship became

12:42

this is November 15th 2014. Oh, gosh. Glory glory

12:49

glory. I wish

12:53

I could do justice to the special secret that

12:55

is who we become when we kiss after

12:58

two nerve wracking weeks of

13:01

trying to quietly assess whether or not

13:03

this was fated to

13:05

be nothing more than a hookup ship or

13:07

if this was fated to be the next great love

13:09

of my life. My show

13:11

went from being unknown and uncelebrated to being

13:14

known and celebrated

13:16

I show got picked up on the same network

13:19

is Brendan and

13:22

I was awarded the gold prize

13:24

at an Irish radio festival that

13:26

flew me overseas to accept it

13:30

and at that festival I felt

13:33

shy the next morning to

13:35

take off my jacket and reveal that

13:37

and taken off his sweater I

13:39

liked someone I

13:42

came back wearing a green sweater as

13:45

we rang in the new year of 2015 it was official Brendan

13:51

and I were in a

13:54

relationship Things

14:02

had also developed

14:07

with the owner of the sweater. I feel

14:09

like I've just gotten myself into a huge

14:11

mess. Letters. Been emailing

14:13

every single day. A trip to New

14:15

York. Coming to New York tomorrow.

14:19

I'm in love with Brendan Baker. He's coming

14:21

today. I'm going to see him in two hours. I'm going to meet you at

14:23

the airport. And I'm starting to feel like I'm here. I'm going to meet you at the

14:25

airport. And I'm starting to feel like I'm here. I'm going to meet you

14:27

at the airport. I'm

14:31

going to

14:33

meet you at the airport. I'm starting to feel like I'm

14:35

here. civic I'm

14:46

going to tell Brendan. I

14:48

told Brendan everything. He didn't break up with me on the spot

14:50

like I kind of expected him to. But

14:54

he also wasn't able to assuage my

14:56

fear that he wasn't all the way

14:58

in love with me. He

15:01

didn't know yet. The owner of

15:03

the sweater was all the way

15:05

in love with me. I've never met anyone

15:07

who loves at

15:10

the same level of

15:12

extremity as I do. He

15:14

let me know in every way that a person

15:16

could. He's ready.

15:20

He wants it. He

15:23

wants to do all of it just

15:25

like me. And a decision that

15:27

I had to make. There's something really sweet

15:29

and lovely and beautiful and trustworthy

15:32

about what I'm feeling with Brendan right

15:34

now. And the only information I

15:36

had to make that decision was

15:39

the very beginning of two very

15:41

beautiful relationships. What do you want?

15:45

The kind of love that's explosive and wild

15:47

and crazy. I was not known at the

15:49

time for my decisiveness. But how do you decide

15:52

what you want? I don't know. I

15:54

deeply deeply respect Brendan. The drama of

15:56

making that decision. What's

15:58

the most compassionate thing to do? I do. When

16:01

dawn for months. Who,

16:04

which Caitlin will I be? You

16:08

know, sort of waiting for him to cut me off. I

16:10

don't want anyone to feel wounded by this. I

16:12

need to be strong. I need to be

16:14

generous. I'm a fucking idiot. I need to

16:16

be loving something inside of me that says,

16:21

Love Brendan, but I broke up with him. I

16:23

need to acknowledge the power that I have in

16:25

this situation. I didn't break up with him.

16:27

I said we should be friends. I

16:29

need to be a gentleman. I

16:32

broke up around so much today. I just wanted my

16:34

life to be simple and clear and to stop feeling

16:36

like I was letting everybody down at any given moment.

16:39

I can't be in love with two people at once. It's

16:42

really hard. I didn't even mean to, but

16:44

I just said I'm in love with Brendan and now

16:46

I've gone and broken up with everyone. This

16:49

has just been such a huge emotional roller coaster. I

16:53

never break up with anyone. Ever. In

16:57

the face of all the drama and all

16:59

the reasons to walk away, Brendan

17:01

and I couldn't stop constantly hanging out.

17:03

Where are we? We're in the airport.

17:07

There's a piano. The depths of the

17:09

friendship. A red piano in the

17:12

gate. The less romantic, but

17:14

very real love that

17:16

we had built over time. The

17:20

stronger than the drama. Stronger

17:23

than the stories about what love is

17:25

supposed to be, what it's

17:27

supposed to look like, how

17:30

it's supposed to go. Hey, it's me.

17:35

I am walking down

17:37

Franklin and yeah, I just

17:39

wanted to let you up too. I closed

17:41

the door for good on the

17:43

romance from afar. I

17:47

didn't record any of that. And

17:49

even though Brendan and I had been in a

17:51

relationship for half a year already, it felt

17:55

like we were just

17:57

at the beginning. Anyway,

18:00

if you're around, give me a call. Okay, later.

18:05

From May 27, 2016,

18:08

Brennan tells me in small silent gestures that

18:10

I have to take care not to miss.

18:12

Collect them, carry them, and decipher their hidden

18:14

message. Oh, but that does remind me.

18:16

Have you taken a turn on? Find my phone? No.

18:21

I'm doing it. He's very concerned

18:23

about the status of my technology. He

18:26

will drop anything and or spend an unlimited

18:28

amount of time making sure that I'm

18:30

set up. Nicknames for Brendan.

18:33

B-Bakes. They

18:36

say the past is the

18:38

best predictor of the future. B-B? Brendan?

18:42

B-Bake-aloo? It didn't really go

18:45

that way with Brendan and I. B-B?

18:48

Good one, Redell. B-Bop!

18:52

Aye. He answers the

18:54

phone every time I call and always calls back.

18:58

Aye. Ask my

19:00

eye. I

19:03

try to keep my dishes in my room

19:05

unless I wash them. So

19:07

that's it. What? He holds

19:09

my hand. Here

19:12

I was thinking I was being helpful by

19:15

getting your dirty dishes

19:18

out of your room. I'm

19:25

scared. So

19:34

I close my eyes and I repeat it to myself. Brendan loves

19:36

you. And indefinitely, definitely

19:38

does love you. Believe

19:40

that Brendan loves you. I

19:53

do. I

19:57

thought about recording when we had our talk on

19:59

Saturday. Yeah. Did

20:01

you? I thought about how you would like to

20:04

record it. What you're hearing right now are real

20:07

recordings. Some things are

20:09

just for people to

20:11

experience. These are real moments that

20:13

happened. I've never felt self-conscious

20:16

in front of the recorder. When the

20:18

recorder was permitted to be on. But

20:20

I know that you do sometimes. True

20:22

facts. Brendan is a very

20:25

private man. What are

20:27

you going to do with this? I'm

20:32

going to use it in a documentary about my life.

20:37

Can you describe the scene in which

20:39

you anticipate using this recording? It's going

20:42

to be a montage. You

20:45

were saying that you feel intimidated by me. That's

20:48

not what I said. I

20:50

said that I feel threatened by you.

20:52

I actively try to block a lot of people.

20:56

Okay. Do you feel like you and I need

20:58

to help about it? Not really at this

21:00

point. I feel like

21:02

if something like that happens.

21:05

I think that I would need to talk about it

21:07

once a month for like the next five years. Well,

21:10

it's different now. Let's get back

21:12

on it with the perspective of the relationship that

21:14

we've had since then. I'm

21:20

happy that you've been taking about what you're going to work

21:22

on. Because I've definitely

21:24

seen you pick up things that aren't worthy

21:26

of your intelligence and your talent. And

21:29

become consumed by them because you have a

21:31

work ethic. And because you like to be

21:34

more and more disgusted by documentary and

21:36

entire things. I think documentary,

21:38

I'm talking about power dynamics. Power

21:41

dynamics? Well, so but

21:43

I feel so safe and I feel so

21:45

like that's why I feel like this is one of the best

21:47

relationships that I've ever had in my life. Hey! It's

21:50

mine! Well, I drank

21:52

it. Power dynamic. Power dynamic. Hello.

21:58

Thank you for making dinner. Very

22:01

good. I had a meeting with the ABC

22:03

today. They're

22:06

interested in the radio play

22:08

pitch. Really?

22:11

Yeah, that I sent them like a thousand

22:13

years ago. The movie's in

22:15

your head, Extension. They're

22:19

into it. Why are they

22:21

referencing it? Because

22:25

it's a character who's trying to atone for...

22:30

Misty. And

22:33

that's what Logan is doing? Like

22:35

I like the values of public radio. I don't

22:38

like the business that

22:40

exists here. What

22:43

color is it like? You don't have paper towels,

22:45

Gibson. I've been asking you to

22:47

get paper towels, you know what I mean? You

22:51

know what? I get sponges. The fact

22:53

that I get sponges is quite... Notable.

22:59

I buy sponges. I keep a stockman sponges. As

23:03

opposed to no sponges. I'm

23:09

not good at buying any kind

23:11

of rolled paper. This

23:15

real relationship that I was in with

23:17

this real man would eventually

23:19

go on to inspire the main

23:22

love interest in the shadows. Charlie

23:25

Park. What? The

23:29

light. Why

23:32

does it bother you so much?

23:34

I don't understand. Because it's wasteful

23:36

and because... I do other things.

23:40

Why can't you just be the light turner-offer? I don't know.

23:46

But before that happened, this

23:49

conversation... What's the plan? Had

23:51

to happen. I

23:55

don't know what to start with. No,

23:57

the big plan. It's

23:59

October. 2017. We've been

24:02

dating for three years now.

24:05

The plan is to take some space. With

24:07

the understanding that we might be

24:10

breaking up. Are

24:12

we not ready to say breaking up? It

24:15

feels dramatic to say that. All

24:19

we have to do now is make a plan

24:21

for how we're going to stop constantly hanging out.

24:24

Even dating when we talked about taking space. We

24:26

never did it. We should have been able to

24:28

do that. We should have but we didn't. Right?

24:32

Not really. Because there was no plan.

24:37

We did not make a plan and

24:40

so we kept on constantly

24:42

hanging out until a

24:44

few months later when I left New

24:46

York. I'm

24:58

falling asleep being like, where is he?

25:00

Sitting on the toilet in a bathroom with a

25:03

clawfoot bathtub that is on its way to becoming

25:05

my favorite place to work. And then I wake

25:07

up being like, I've

25:09

made a horrible mistake, you know. It's

25:16

only been a few weeks of not constantly

25:18

hanging out with Ben then and

25:20

I've officially changed my mind

25:23

about our decision to break up. I've

25:26

called him to see if

25:28

he feels the same way.

25:30

And you don't feel like the problems

25:32

between us are surmountable. But

25:36

he doesn't. But you

25:38

are saying that you like stopped feeling

25:40

things for me. That they change with

25:42

an E or with a D. I

25:44

don't really know what it means then

25:46

to just commit to somebody because I

25:48

feel like eventually it always

25:50

gets, you know, like

25:52

there's always going to be problems. There's always going

25:55

to be friction. There's always going to

25:57

be... fucked

26:00

up shit, you know? It

26:11

would be five weeks of anguish

26:13

after this phone call. Can I

26:15

ask you a question? I called

26:17

him and I was like... When

26:19

Phoebe Wang, who you just heard, the

26:21

senior producer and co-writer on the project,

26:24

would march into the bathtub studio and

26:26

demand that I throw out the story that

26:28

I was trying to make and

26:31

figure out what story I

26:33

wanted to make. The

26:36

daily angst of

26:39

questioning, the

26:41

decision that I had made to end it, and

26:44

all of the decisions that had come

26:46

before turned

26:49

into the show that I had

26:51

to make. This

26:58

is The Shadows, episode 1. What

27:03

is it that Destin's love to

27:05

die? I guess I always felt

27:07

like you were uncertain and that it was my job

27:09

to convince us both that this was a good idea.

27:14

Is it destiny or do we have a choice?

27:17

You know, like there's always gonna

27:19

be problems. There's always gonna be

27:21

friction. There's always gonna be fucked

27:25

up shit, you know? Where did this

27:28

love story begin? Did

27:30

it begin when I was born? What

27:37

you just heard is the first 30 seconds of

27:40

the first episode of The Shadows. I

27:43

had spent February writing and writing and

27:45

writing, March iterating

27:47

and iterating and iterating, until

27:51

finally there was an

27:53

outline for six episodes. It

27:55

had a shape. It

27:58

was the shape of the relationship that I had. with

28:00

Brendan and

28:02

I knew that I had a phone call to make. Before

28:06

I went any further I needed to know if he

28:10

was okay with this. So you

28:13

want my permission to talk

28:15

about it or what? Well it

28:18

wasn't just that I wanted his permission to

28:20

use our relationship as fodder for a fiction

28:22

show. I needed to know

28:24

how he felt about hearing all

28:27

of the gory details that I never shared

28:29

with him about the time

28:32

that I almost left him for someone else,

28:34

the sweater. The thing that's hard to

28:36

talk about is that it does go

28:38

into the sense

28:40

of conflict that I was feeling at the

28:42

time and I think

28:44

that in order for this

28:46

to be in the story I have to

28:48

talk about those feelings and

28:51

like show them and

28:53

I think that like that's the

28:55

thing that worries me that it

28:58

would be very hurtful. You're gonna

29:00

hurt me by... No one would

29:02

know but you would know. I

29:05

think you've got to follow your

29:07

heart and your instincts for the

29:09

story. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And

29:13

the kinds

29:15

of concerns that you have over this

29:17

story are the kinds of concerns you'd

29:20

be having if it were a documentary.

29:22

Yeah. You

29:24

know like your representation and being

29:27

fair and you know. Yeah

29:29

but I don't know if I could ever... how could I

29:31

write anything and not think about that? I don't know.

29:34

Don't most writers have that? Like don't

29:36

most writers like aren't the people close

29:38

to most writers like hating them? I

29:40

don't know that stuff really worries me

29:44

knowing that you would listen to it and

29:46

hear things that feel like they're taken from

29:48

your own life or whatever you know. Like

29:50

I just... I'm trying to

29:52

figure out what feels right and like maybe

29:54

I don't want to get too much deeper into it because

29:56

you've given me... you've said that I'm free so... I

30:00

don't, you don't take it back,

30:02

but I... Uh-huh.

30:09

Where do you want to go, right? Yeah.

30:14

You take the color

30:17

card and the way that it feels, you

30:20

know, true to you. And

30:24

the thing that you have and like your

30:26

strength is to get to an

30:29

interesting perspective or like your

30:32

subjective experience, you know, because

30:35

it's fiction that should free you

30:37

up to not have

30:41

to just tell the

30:43

story. Like you can tell the story

30:45

of the feeling. I... Do

30:48

it based on what is interesting to you.

30:53

What? I don't know. You're too

30:55

good. I

31:02

was starting to get

31:04

over the breakup, but I

31:07

don't think I've ever wanted to marry someone more

31:10

than when I heard him say these words. I

31:13

just believe in art and I believe that you should make

31:15

the art. May

31:23

2018, June 2018, July 2018. It's

31:33

August. The show is going

31:36

out in a month. Brendan

31:45

and I are sitting in my Toronto apartment on

31:48

a Casper mattress on the floor. Just

31:51

like I promised, I've just played all

31:53

of the episodes for him to see if

31:55

there's anything that he wants me to change

31:57

or take out. mentioned

32:00

puppeteering there's this moment where you can like

32:03

have like music come in and it's like puppeteering

32:06

my life's calling yeah yeah like

32:08

really highlight it so people like

32:10

get it and somehow what

32:13

i imagined was going to be a

32:15

very emotionally intense afternoon Brendan

32:18

instead is

32:21

focusing on the craft he's

32:24

giving me the gift of

32:26

his excellent story notes where

32:29

did you hear music oh

32:31

just throughout tell me oh no

32:34

um in friendship montage he's

32:37

helping me make the show better

32:40

okay so you have really interesting

32:42

scene transitions and scene transitions in

32:44

audio are fucking hard because where

32:47

are you and what's happening and

32:49

like there are ways that you like

32:53

exploit that ambiguity to good effects

32:57

um and then there are places where it's confusing

32:59

and i think the

33:01

day that the shadows went out i

33:04

got a delivery of flowers from

33:07

Brendan and

33:11

as the years went on he

33:13

continued to show up hey

33:15

happy birthday i'm

33:17

just calling from the emotionally intense

33:19

moments of my life i

33:22

still consider you my best friend catelin

33:24

and offering a helping hand hey catelin

33:26

i'm just calling you back thanks for

33:29

calling me in my birthday a tender

33:31

heart anyway you're important to me kp

33:33

how's it going been a

33:36

long ass time and yeah

33:39

give me a call back i hope

33:41

you're doing well okay and an

33:43

unending curiosity for all things sound

33:55

love you As

34:22

I sat down and thought about all of

34:25

the relationships that helped this show come to be,

34:27

I hadn't

34:29

thought about including Brendan,

34:32

because I know that he's a very private person. In

34:35

all honesty, I spent all

34:37

this time inventing an entire fictional universe

34:39

just to protect his privacy. I knew

34:42

that I couldn't have named all the people that I've named

34:44

and not named him. Brendan

34:48

Baker was so much more to this show

34:51

than just source material.

34:55

Brendan Baker has been an inspiration,

34:57

a support,

35:02

a guide, a

35:05

competitor, a collaborator, a cheerleader. I

35:09

realized that Brendan helped

35:11

me become the

35:14

artist who could

35:16

make this show. The

35:20

artist that

35:23

did make this show. And

35:32

then I thought, oh my god, what if I should be

35:34

recording this? And then I was like, no, stop

35:37

it. You're saying something very important that you maybe

35:39

have never said to this person. Fucking

35:41

forget it. And then that was the exact moment that

35:43

you were like, I think you

35:46

should be recording this right now.

35:48

You recorded me saying that, right?

35:51

I chose to be in the moment, Brendan.

35:57

But now can I finish now saying the honest things that I

35:59

was saying? Like

36:02

the source materialness of it all is almost

36:04

besides, it is besides the point, you know,

36:06

like I just had this moment of realizing

36:09

who I am as an artist is the view. And

36:13

so as you listen to the final episode,

36:17

the episode called End, know

36:23

that you are hearing the story of

36:25

the end of a romantic relationship, but

36:28

not the end of

36:31

a great love. This

37:07

is the shadow. Episode

37:15

6. End. End.

37:22

Whatever we permit ourselves, we are forbidding ourselves

37:24

something else. All

37:27

of our ideals for ourselves, our aims,

37:29

our aspirations, our beliefs, are

37:32

by definition restrictive, un-forbidden

37:36

pleasures. Adam Phillips. Where do you

37:38

want to sit? Where do you want to sit? Right here, mom.

37:41

This makes sense. Mrs. Kress, is there

37:43

anything I can do to help out? Oh,

37:45

you can call. Can

37:47

I call me and ask you please? Charlie

37:50

is the type of person that parents love. We

37:53

are at

37:55

my parents place for dinner. I'll

38:00

serve most of the time, but not by

38:02

me. You meet eyes

38:04

across the table. Charlie.

38:08

Mm-hmm. It's

38:10

over. Oh.

38:17

You do? I have these thoughts multiple

38:19

times a day. I'm

38:22

cleaning my shelf up, okay? Can

38:26

I keep the shirt? Yeah, yeah, of

38:29

course. But you

38:31

don't need to do that right now. You can leave

38:33

stuff. And then, only a

38:35

few hours after such a fantasy, I have another one.

38:37

Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

38:43

Mm-mm. One moment, dear. I

38:46

have to go in and take the chicken out of the oven. I

38:49

love you. It goes

38:51

back and forth. Waking up

38:53

with the break-up fantasy. I'm leaving

38:55

you. Going to bed with the old

38:57

age together fantasy. Do you think we'll have enough money to

38:59

put our second kid through school? I

39:02

don't know. Perhaps. I

39:04

don't say a word about these thoughts to anyone. Sometimes

39:08

I wonder if that's what long-term monogamous relationships

39:10

are built on. Not

39:12

letting yourself think certain things. Not

39:15

letting certain words about your partner escape your

39:17

mouth. Knowing that by

39:19

thinking it or saying it, that

39:21

it's the beginning of feeling it and

39:24

acting on it. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

39:26

What's up? Nothing. I'm just late

39:28

right now. I need to get my shit

39:30

together. I can't find my fucking keys. Okay.

39:33

Where are they? I don't know. I

39:36

promise myself every single time we have an

39:38

interaction like this, it'll never talk

39:40

to him that way again. When you drink,

39:43

you just kind of... What? I'm an apple

39:45

when I drink. I know. You told me before. Why do you

39:47

steal my keys about shit? I'm just trying to live my

39:49

life. That's not what I

39:51

was gonna say. I

39:54

have a bit of a hard time functioning. I'm late. I'm late.

39:56

I'm late. I need to get out the door. Okay.

40:01

Hey, your keys are right there on the

40:03

table. It

40:05

only happens when I'm on a family level of

40:08

closeness with someone. When I feel like

40:10

I have their unconditional love, that's

40:13

the only time I feel safe enough to be a fucking

40:15

asshole. It

40:17

often happens when there's something frustrating going on outside

40:20

of us. I'm frustrated with the

40:22

situation. I take it out on him. I

40:24

think about my parents. I

40:26

think about how often they speak to each other this way.

40:29

I'm within my family the way that I have adopted

40:31

this way of talking as well. With

40:34

my parents, I'm always waiting for the banal accident

40:36

that will break them into a rage. My

40:38

dad driving in the car. Greg,

40:41

can you slow down? I am driving slow. Do

40:43

you want to drive? Greg, you're scaring me. I

40:45

saw a video of them when they were young,

40:48

first married. I was

40:50

a baby. Can you hear a sound

40:52

on that thing? My dad was

40:54

asking my mom to change the recording settings

40:56

on a video camera. I

40:59

braced myself. This is the

41:01

exact type of frustrating situation that would fly

41:03

them into a rage. She

41:06

can't find the button. He's telling her how to find the

41:08

button, but she still can't find it. And he's like, why

41:10

can't you just find the button? And she's like, why do

41:12

you even want me to fucking do this stupid fucking video

41:14

camera? I hate you. Can you turn that ring?

41:17

You turn that ring. You take the thing out of the lens. This

41:19

thing? To where? Which

41:22

way? I couldn't believe what I

41:24

was hearing. The

41:29

tenderness. Where did that tenderness go? Where did

41:31

it come from? I'm

41:35

not a woman. I'm a woman. I'm

41:37

a woman. I'm a woman. I'm a woman. I'm

41:40

a woman. I'm a woman. I'm a woman. I'm

41:44

a woman. I'm a woman. I'm a woman. I'm

41:46

a woman. I'm a woman. I'm

41:48

a woman. I'm a woman. I'm a woman. I

41:51

was a woman masturbating when I was a Catholic teenager. Ashamed,

41:55

disgusted, and confused. This

42:01

is my fifth trip to the shared

42:03

bathroom on the top floor of an

42:06

incredibly expensive and artfully decorated rustic hipster

42:08

lodge in the Catskills. I'm

42:10

hungover. Oh, babe, can I... No,

42:13

no, I really don't want any

42:15

witnesses. One

42:19

of my best friends, who also happens to

42:21

be one of my ex-girlfriends, and who also so

42:24

happens to be marrying someone from Nova Scotia

42:26

of all places, asked me

42:28

yesterday if I want to be part of the bridal party. I

42:31

said yes. And I'm terrified that I'll

42:33

be vomiting by the time the wedding ceremony starts at

42:35

3. Aww. Aww.

42:39

Aww. Poor hungover sweetie. I

42:41

know. I was like, shit. As

42:45

is to be expected, Charlie's

42:47

bedside manner is impeccable. Can I

42:49

get you anything? I don't know. I

42:54

don't think anything's gonna stay down.

42:58

I fall asleep. I wake

43:00

up an hour later. Charlie

43:02

is still sitting in the tiny room. Why don't you

43:04

go and have a good time? I'll

43:07

stay with you. Thanks

43:09

for being here with me. Of

43:12

course. Okay,

43:16

I gotta go back. Oh,

43:18

yeah. Okay. Okay, I'll be right

43:20

back. In addition to agreeing to be a

43:23

groomsmaid, I have agreed to do a performance

43:25

at midnight. Initially, I

43:27

was terrified I'd be too drunk by then to

43:29

perform, but now, of course, the

43:31

thought of alcohol awakens the bile on my

43:33

stomach. All smells are

43:36

puke-inspiring. The

43:43

ceremony. So we're here today

43:45

to witness the union of

43:47

Ian and Raven in holy,

43:49

unholy matrimony. I'm

43:52

taking deep breaths and concentrating. Don't

43:55

vomit. Don't vomit.

43:58

Give your hearts. but

44:00

not into each other's keeping, for

44:03

only the hand of life can contain

44:06

your hearts and

44:08

stand together yet not too near

44:10

together for the pillars of

44:12

the temple stand apart and

44:14

the oak tree and the cypress grow not

44:16

in each other's shadow. The

44:18

groomsmaid I'm paired with is

44:20

from Nova Scotia and looks

44:22

just like Devon. Don't vomit,

44:25

don't vomit, don't vomit. It is no secret

44:27

that for most of my life I have

44:30

hopelessly and often

44:32

helplessly searched for a true

44:34

love. The kind

44:36

of love you read about in fairy tale. My

44:39

friend and her love say their wedding vows. It's

44:42

the kind of wedding that's

44:45

perfectly idiosyncratic, perfectly

44:47

romantic, perfectly untraditionally

44:49

perfect. They're

44:51

in the kind of love that I always dreamed of for

44:53

myself and it's hard not

44:56

to think of Devon and what might

44:58

have been. You feel a part of my soul that I

45:00

didn't know was empty. If you die I won't be able

45:02

to go on living without you. I

45:13

talk myself out of this type of love's existence.

45:18

Is it impossible for two dreamers

45:20

to be together? Does

45:22

it always have to be one balloon and one string?

45:25

What would two balloons do? Float

45:28

away I guess and

45:30

two strings would drag limp

45:33

on the ground. The

45:36

problem is that I mean no one

45:39

is ever completely a balloon or completely a

45:41

string. And if time and

45:43

love will let us I hope

45:45

to spend the rest of my life waking up

45:47

day after day and choosing

45:49

you. I

45:54

don't vomit. The ceremony is over.

46:02

While everyone's drinking at the reception, I'm getting ready

46:04

for the performance at midnight. The

46:08

tech isn't working. I mean, it's not supposed to be

46:11

this bright. It's supposed to be half as bright. Charlie

46:13

is making it his problem, even though it's not. I

46:16

didn't realize you wanted me to

46:18

plug it. That's a dimmer. Thank

46:20

you. How am I going to get this up?

46:22

I'm trying to help you. Why are

46:24

you yelling at me? The performance goes great. I

46:27

flirt with the Nova Scotian groomsmaid all night while

46:29

Charlie quietly sits behind me. We're

46:40

back from the wedding. We're sitting in

46:43

a red booth at a rockabilly vegan restaurant

46:45

called Luin. There's

46:47

romantic 60s Hawaiian rock music playing.

46:50

I notice the ambience is like something

46:52

out of a Wong Kar-Wai movie. I

46:56

think about how I can never share enjoyment with

46:58

such things with Charlie because he didn't

47:00

notice them. The

47:04

ambiance in here, huh? I

47:11

was looking at your face during the wedding ceremony. I

47:15

knew you were hungover, but it seemed like

47:19

all you were thinking about was how

47:22

disappointed you were in a relationship or something. I

47:27

have to say what I'm thinking. Well...

47:31

I can't keep keeping secrets inside. I can't

47:33

keep doing it. You're right. I

47:39

was thinking that. Oh,

47:46

okay. It's

47:48

kind of hard to go to a wedding like that and

47:51

not have to fit in

47:54

the reality that... ...committing

47:56

to our relationship has meant... I'm

48:00

telling myself over and over again that that version

48:02

of love doesn't exist. Wow.

48:13

You don't want me with abandon. You don't

48:15

love me with abandon. But

48:21

I don't really do anything with abandon. It's

48:26

just not who I am or what

48:28

I do. We

48:33

both know what the next sentence should be. The

48:37

next logical move in the conversation based off of

48:39

everything that's been said. We

48:44

look into each other's eyes. We're

48:47

both thinking it. I guess we should

48:49

break up then. Do

48:54

you want to go home and watch TV? Yeah.

48:56

That sounds good. Let's do that. Yeah.

49:02

What is love? What is

49:04

it really? Completely

49:07

accepting someone and

49:09

all their beauty and weakness. Accepting

49:12

the way that they love you no matter how that

49:14

may be. How much

49:16

of yourself do you let go of in order to

49:18

live as one? After

49:23

the night at Lou Ann's, I went to Newfoundland for

49:26

a performance residency where they housed me and

49:28

paid me and fed me for a month. I

49:31

get crushes on people on the trip. Hey

49:34

baby. Charlie and I talk about opening our relationship. The

49:36

thing is I can't trust that you wouldn't fall in love

49:39

with someone else. I'm a fucking hypocrite. The one time

49:41

that you tried to platonically spoon, we made out, fell in

49:43

love, and now we've been dating for three years. Do you

49:45

know what I mean? I

49:47

made art, hitchhiked on the Trans-Canadian highway,

49:50

smoked cigarettes in an opium den-like gay

49:52

bar with a grand piano and

49:54

a massive candelabra, thinking about how

49:56

I wanted to be buried in this bar. And

49:59

then also... about how much Charlie would hate it, think

50:02

it was corny. I

50:04

noticed myself thinking that it's corny too. I

50:08

imagine my entire life lived without

50:11

enjoying moments like these. Now

50:14

that I know that even in my solitude I

50:16

enjoy them less just because I see the world

50:18

through his eyes, I know that I'm

50:21

going to end it with Charlie. I

50:23

have to. If

50:27

one were going to be with someone forever, Charlie would be

50:29

the perfect person to do such a thing with. I

50:32

can even imagine him slowly breaking

50:35

down over time, slowly

50:37

setting himself free. But

50:40

someone once told me you

50:43

should never get into a relationship with the hope to crack

50:45

the egg. I

50:50

think about Leonard Cohen again. I'm so

50:53

afraid that I'm doomed to love as he loved,

50:56

many separately and at the same time. I

51:00

think of something he said in a documentary I

51:02

heard once. I

51:05

pray that a loving

51:07

memory exists for them too. The

51:11

precious ones I

51:13

overthrew for an

51:15

education in the world. I

51:28

don't want to overthrow my precious ones for an education in the

51:30

world. I

51:41

open the door. Neither

51:43

of us bat an eye or a heartbeat. No

51:46

kiss, no hug, no sex. We

51:50

lie down together and he holds me until the dread goes

51:52

away and I fall asleep. We

52:20

wake up, I feel the dread, and

52:22

he holds me until it goes away and I have the strength

52:24

to face the day. How come we didn't fuck yesterday? We always

52:26

fuck when I come back. I

52:29

don't know, I guess I

52:36

feel...you feel

52:38

kind of distant or something. We

52:42

don't say anything anymore because we both know where the

52:44

conversation will end if we begin

52:48

it. The more time that passes, the more

52:50

my nerve to end it dissolves. The

52:54

more I return to a state of questioning, once

52:57

again, I'm at a loss for how to

52:59

make a decision. Doesn't committing to someone mean you just

53:01

keep trying? I like trying. How do you know when

53:04

it's time to stop trying? Eventually you'll figure

53:06

it out. I have new problems to try

53:08

to fix. It's like meditating. It feels good

53:10

at the beginning and then it starts to

53:12

hurt and if you just stay still, then

53:14

it starts to feel good again. Become mad

53:16

to try to keep loving someone. Loving somebody

53:18

for your whole life. Dom, you

53:21

decide that it's time to stop trying to...is

53:23

that something that we need to forget about?

53:25

You have entered TTBU. What's Ttbu? Trying to

53:28

break up.