Sean Illing is joined by John Gray, political philosopher and author of the new book, The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism. They discuss Thomas Hobbes and the origins of liberalism, the current state of democracy, and the very uncertain future of the global liberal order.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: John Gray, author and political philosopherReferences: The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism by John Gray (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes (1651)Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: 

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