0:02

Welcome to Good Intentions, the podcast

0:04

where we explore the world around us, find

0:06

meaning and intention in what we do. I'm

0:09

Kelly Harvard and I'm on a mission to spread positive

0:11

stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful

0:14

and connected life. Kate

0:18

King is the top leadership and team coach who

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has coached thousands of the world's top CEOs

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through her own coaching practice. And

0:24

as an executive coach at London Business School,

0:27

she creates meaningful and lasting change in her

0:29

clients, their teams, and their businesses.

0:32

Formerly a Londoner Kate now lives in the Middle East where

0:35

she has quickly become the go-to coach for change

0:37

making leaders in this future focused region. We

0:40

covered so much in our conversation how

0:42

an empowering mindset is a game changer about

0:45

reaching our full potential and how to live

0:47

a more meaningful life. Pay

0:49

has such fantastic insights on how leadership is changing

0:52

and evolving to become more empathetic, more

0:54

conscious and connected. Her

0:56

term leadership soul really resonated

0:59

with me and the themes that we love to explore in

1:01

this podcast. I'm also borderline

1:03

obsessed with the fact that her ideal coaching client is

1:05

none other than King Charles III himself. Incredible.

1:08

Just a little bit of intergenerational trauma to

1:10

unpack there. Kate's incredibly warm

1:13

and wise, and she was full of practical tips that

1:15

we can all use in our daily personal and professional

1:17

lives. I'm sure you're going to love this conversation.

1:21

So good morning, Kate. Thanks so much for joining me

1:23

today. It's my pleasure, Kenny . So fascinated

1:25

by what you do. And um , in full disclosure,

1:27

we actually met , uh, a yoga event hosted

1:30

by the rather lovely Dina . I'm sure everybody

1:32

in the Bible know and who I'm actually lining up as another podcast guest

1:34

, um, hopefully as well . So, and

1:36

I'm really interested just to sort of get back to basics. I

1:39

mean , you are really dedicating your life

1:41

to supporting others, coaching others.

1:44

What made you start on this journey? So,

1:46

look, I've had a , I've had a passion for, for

1:48

development for my own and others development for

1:51

about 30 years now . And actually the way it came

1:53

about in my early twenties,

1:55

like of all of us, I was really focused on changing the

1:57

world out there. And I went

2:00

through an experienced, a partner that I was with at

2:02

the time, had a nervous breakdown. It was

2:04

a really big eye opener and a big awakening cuz

2:06

actually we stopped focusing on the world out there and we started

2:08

focusing on the world in here and,

2:11

you know, what was the inner interchange that

2:13

we needed to actually help him through his process.

2:15

And that's when I got really fascinated by

2:18

inner work and looking at , um,

2:20

how we can develop and expand and

2:23

adjust ourselves to have a different impact in

2:25

the world and actually to cope with the , with the world around

2:27

us. And I made the commitment to myself

2:30

then that I was going to make my little

2:32

corner of capitalism a really lovely place to

2:34

be for me and the people in it. And also

2:36

to make the world of work a nice place

2:38

to be because, you know, it can be pretty stressful and

2:40

difficult. And actually that was what led to his breakdown.

2:43

And so outta Bath experience, a

2:45

real passion for working lives

2:47

better and making sure that, that

2:49

, uh, organizations are really well led West

2:52

born . So I've been on this kind of, this journey of exploring

2:54

human potential and expansion ever

2:56

since then. And, you know, I was really lucky that

2:59

I, I found my life's purpose pretty

3:01

early on, which is, is coaching people to

3:03

develop their, their potential to,

3:05

to the fullest extent. And, you know, it was actually

3:08

a blessing in disguise this experience

3:10

that I went through because it led to, you know, to

3:12

discovering what is has been the greatest

3:14

privilege of my life, actually, which is being a catalyst to

3:17

others evolution. So , um, I consider myself

3:19

to be very lucky. Gosh,

3:21

and I mean to go through that in your twenties, Kate , it must be,

3:24

I mean, I think my twenties was spent sort of high kicking

3:26

my way around bars and clubs in Manchester

3:29

and yeah, I mean, to have to go through something

3:31

quite serious like that, there was plenty

3:33

of that. There was plenty of hiding as well, right.

3:35

It wasn't always, wasn't always , uh, deeper

3:38

deep in introspection, but, you know, it was a , a

3:40

mixture of experiences. So yeah, sort

3:42

of, I mean, obviously you say it set you onto this journey, but how did

3:44

you cope personally was such a huge sort

3:47

of, almost like a , a volcano exploding in

3:49

your life when something like that happens to someone that's close

3:51

to you? I'm sure it was a real learning experience

3:53

about how to be present for other people,

3:56

how to be fully present and not try and change them,

3:58

but just to be, to hold space for somebody else's

4:00

process. And that was how I, I learned , um,

4:03

how to do that really to have some

4:05

compassion and empathy and just be there

4:07

really. Gosh, it's interesting to see how

4:09

something's so positive has come out of something that must have been

4:12

so very challenging and, and difficult

4:14

at the time. Um , why do people come

4:16

to you for coaching now? Like, what's the main reason? I

4:18

mean, I love what you're saying about making workplaces

4:20

better, places to be making capitalism,

4:22

this sort of nicest space to be, this is

4:24

something that I struggle with on the daily, you know, I'm a very corporate

4:26

job. I'm fully signed up to capitalism, but

4:29

I'm often, it's kind of, it's it jars for me. It doesn't

4:31

always sit comfortably. So I'm , I'm , I'd

4:33

love to know why do people come to you in the first instance and

4:35

then how do you kind of take them through that process? Yeah,

4:37

great question. So look, I work with successful

4:40

people and you know, I think most people understand

4:42

these days that coaching is , is something that , that

4:44

is not a , a remedial activity for people, you

4:47

know, for people who've who've lost the plot , although it can be

4:49

helpful. I work with successful people, so really

4:51

time pressed, you know, corporate leaders and

4:53

founders who want to make some

4:55

change either in themselves or in

4:57

their way of being or in the way that they

4:59

lead their teams. And there

5:01

are usually several prompts that lead people to

5:04

seek coaching. For some people they

5:06

have an, or a , a growth mindset I

5:08

would call it, where they have an orientation to

5:10

do more, achieve more, be more, and

5:12

they want to come to, to me to , to work out

5:14

what and and how to do that. And

5:17

then others, and this is probably the majority,

5:19

actually find themselves that they're in a situation where they're triggered

5:21

by something. And you know, that can be that they're

5:23

dealing with a difficult relationship, be that with a

5:26

, you know, a direct report or with a boss or

5:28

with peers, they find maybe

5:30

that there are other triggers that, that maybe they're

5:32

losing it, they're not able to control their, their

5:34

temper. You know, I was working with a CEO recently

5:37

who was having these kind of flareups and found

5:39

that his fuse was getting shorter and shorter and

5:41

actually, you know, wanted to start to look at that. And

5:43

then, you know, for others they've had some feedback or

5:46

there's a limiting belief that they recognize

5:48

that keeps on showing up for them. So, you know, there's

5:50

another CEO I was working with recently who had

5:53

this not good enough thing show up , um,

5:55

on a regular basis. Yeah. Which is really tough,

5:57

you know, when you're leading an organization to , to

6:00

face into on a daily basis, this thought may

6:02

, maybe I'm not up to this, maybe maybe

6:04

I'm not worthy of this seat. Right? That's

6:06

really stressful and really problematic and you wanna

6:08

get that fixed cuz we can, we can fix that and well

6:11

maybe we'll talk , uh, in a little bit about how to fix

6:13

that. But basically, you know, people show up when

6:15

they, when the strategies that they have aren't working and

6:17

they want to explore ways of living

6:19

and leading in a more meaningful, more connected,

6:22

more alive way. You know

6:24

, they want to , everybody

6:26

wants to be happy, really dunno happy in their happy

6:28

in their work. They want to to be connected with

6:31

a sense of purpose. They want to have an unshakeable

6:33

belief in themselves. They want to

6:35

have a vibrant feeling of aliveness.

6:38

They , you know, they want to create a

6:40

life that they really love living. You know,

6:42

they want to make an impact in the world. I think these are really

6:45

common things that, that lots of people are, are

6:47

seeking and , and looking to create and working with

6:49

a coach can help you be intentional about, about

6:52

those. And so why do people

6:54

come to me for coaching specifically? I

6:56

think what I do is help people

6:59

to do the inner work to become the

7:01

people that they want. They want to be, you know, lots of coaches are

7:03

focused on performance and you know, the sort

7:05

of external, you know, their business coaches

7:07

or that sort of thing. But actually I really love

7:10

the Neil Donald Walsh quote that says,

7:12

you know, if you don't go within, you go

7:14

without, at a certain point in life, we

7:16

get to a stage where, you know, we need to do

7:18

some inner work. We need to look inside and look a

7:20

bit deeper. And actually my work, I think

7:22

is an intersection between three things. But

7:25

first of all is , is psychology. So it's really about

7:27

helping people develop self-awareness and connecting

7:30

with themselves. The second is

7:32

about energy and , uh, spirituality

7:34

and actually the , the , that's about going beyond

7:37

the self to connect with things that are bigger than

7:39

than us. And then the third is

7:41

about leadership and organizational dynamics.

7:44

And so that's about con connecting relationally

7:47

with others and using the

7:49

stuff that we talked about in terms of self awareness and,

7:51

and going beyond the self to have the impact that

7:53

we desire on other people and, and

7:56

on the world. And I think that's why my people come

7:58

to to you do some work on those things.

8:01

Gosh, fascinating. I mean, and one thing that makes

8:03

sort of jumps out me at what you're saying there is you

8:06

really have to put your ego at the door

8:08

to kind of , if you're , if you're good about the knowledge that

8:10

you need help, you are , you are kind and

8:12

this is kind of odds with a lot of, you know, obviously in leadership,

8:15

you know, there's a lot of ego-driven sort

8:17

of activity and feeling around that. So

8:20

for someone to sort of say, you know, I , I feel like

8:22

I'm not enough or I've got imposter syndrome, somebody

8:24

who's kind of at the top of their game, I

8:26

find it quite encouraging that people are prepared to

8:29

kind of do that and come to you. That's kinda at

8:31

odds with what I think we sometimes experience in the

8:33

corporate world. I mean, how much of a role does ego

8:35

play in it and how much do you have to sort of push

8:37

that out the door? Or have they already left it behind when

8:40

they come to you? It's a great question. Well,

8:42

look, I mean obviously if you're going to share your

8:44

inner world with, with another human being, there's

8:46

a level of vulnerability that's, that's involved

8:48

in that. And I think it

8:50

comes down to mindset. Do you have a growth mindset or

8:53

you have a fixed mindset? You know, if you

8:55

have a fixed mindset, then you believe that you need

8:57

to know it all already, which makes it

8:59

very, very difficult to actually partner with somebody

9:01

else to explore different ways of being. Because

9:04

you're busy demonstrating to the world that you, that

9:06

you got it covered, that you know it, that you are it. Right.

9:08

And we know all know , you know, leaders

9:10

and other humans around the , the place who are

9:12

busy reinforcing their egos to demonstrate

9:15

the mask to the world. And I

9:17

don't think that's, you know, that's

9:19

certainly not growthful because anybody

9:21

who's interested in personal growth understands

9:24

that we are all work in progress and

9:27

we're all on a journey. And sometimes that

9:29

journey means that it's useful to get another

9:32

perspective of somebody with some different expertise

9:34

or skills to help us to progress. So

9:36

I think it comes from a position of strength, not

9:39

necessarily vulnerability. I think it's strong to

9:41

be able to say, Hey, do you know what, actually

9:43

there's , there's a different way of looking at this . I'd like to explore,

9:46

let me , let me see what it is I don't yet know . And

9:48

get some help on that path to being

9:50

, uh, expanding into our fullest potential. Which

9:52

let's face it, you know, if everyone ever

9:55

gets to our full potential, I'd be obviously

9:57

the surprise either I hope that I'm

10:00

still expanding to the very last breath . Cause

10:02

you know, if we're not expanding, we're dying. Right? That's

10:04

my not expanding, we're shrinking. Yeah

10:07

, no , I totally agree. And yeah , I mean it's, it's music to

10:09

my , it's my mindset, but I think yeah, often you encounter,

10:12

especially in positions of very senior leadership,

10:14

it feels that there's a lot of fixed mindsets out there.

10:16

So yeah, this whole growth mindset mindset I

10:18

think is really, obviously it's important, but

10:20

I think it's interesting to see who would adopt it and who wouldn't

10:22

and who's prepared to kind of ask for help or,

10:25

you know, I like the way you positioned it that , you know , I want to think about

10:27

this differently rather than, you know, asking for

10:29

help and sometimes be seen as a weakness. Although I think that's

10:31

changing. And, and I wanna come onto that in a bit as well.

10:34

How are the issues that you see are , are they gendered?

10:36

I mean, are some issues very specific to women?

10:39

I mean, I mean obviously the whole experience , the gendered

10:41

experience is different for men and women, but what

10:43

, what are the issues that you see and how do they show up differently

10:45

for men and women ? Very interesting question. The

10:48

reality is still the latest

10:50

research , research shows us that, that there's only

10:54

25% of women in the , in the UK and US

10:56

who are in executive positions.

10:59

So 75% is still men. It's actually, it actually

11:02

39% on boards, but on than in exec positions. Only

11:04

25% of executive positions are held

11:06

by women. And women are systematically

11:08

paid less than men for the same work. So

11:11

we know that this is an issue, but as a coach,

11:13

I come at it with a human focus. And what I notice

11:15

is that actually the human

11:18

challenges and frailties tend to be fairly similar.

11:20

And so, you know, I think you may

11:22

be surprised, I'm certainly constantly amazed.

11:25

There's something like, I think about

11:28

80% , I would say, of my clients have

11:30

some form of version

11:32

of, of , of not enough or not good

11:34

enough. It's really surprising actually, how many people

11:37

in really senior positions have

11:39

the , you know, have these sort of insecurities about,

11:42

about whether they're <laugh> , whether they're,

11:44

whether they're enough. And I think the difference,

11:47

the gender difference is more around

11:50

what happens after that. So I , I

11:52

think that , you know, know that the human condition is

11:54

the same women I notice are

11:56

much less likely to put themselves forward

12:00

for things when they feel like they're not enough.

12:02

Whereas men are more likely to give it a go. Right.

12:04

You know, they'll kind of go, you know, let's, let's

12:06

suck it and see . And , and women need a much higher

12:08

degree of confidence before they'll actually put

12:11

themselves forward. But, you know, for

12:13

any gender, I think the cure is

12:15

the same in terms of the work that you need to do

12:17

around not good enough, which is, you know, going inside, doing

12:20

the inner work, finding out, finding out what the limiting

12:22

belief is and, and then changing it. Yeah,

12:24

no , I love those that , um, mythical example isn't

12:26

there and Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg, which is they show

12:28

a job description to men and women and

12:32

the men will be like, nah , yeah,

12:34

I can do it. Whereas women will be like, I can do A,

12:36

B, and C and I can do G H I

12:38

and I can do X, Y, and Z, but I can't do the rest of it. And

12:41

then what about those bits ? Whereas men are just like, oh yeah , I

12:43

, I'll , yeah , I think I have <laugh> . It's

12:45

like , and there's a wonderful mindset that I'm

12:47

, the pin isn't there , which is if I

12:49

don't know , I'll, I'll work it out or I'll find out.

12:52

And I think that's, you know, that's amazing and men

12:54

are more likely to do that. But there's also, and I , and in

12:56

the Cheryl Sandberg book that you

12:58

, that you referenced , she talks about

13:00

how women and men are perceived

13:02

differently in terms of what's acceptable. So what's

13:04

assertive for a man is seen as

13:07

pushy and demanding for, for women. And so

13:09

that , you know, there's a different interpretation. Yeah,

13:11

of course, of course. And there's just, there's

13:13

that great example. This isn't the Cheryl Sandberg podcast,

13:16

but , um, there's that great example where they show descriptions

13:18

to people and they say, this is Kate, and Kate

13:20

drives the Mercedes soft talk . And then she,

13:23

she goes to the beach club at the weekends and she does this and she does

13:25

that, and then she buys this. The final

13:27

question is, would would you like to be friends with Kate? And

13:29

like 90% of people say no when it's

13:31

Dave. Actually horrible. We don't Oh , I don't , yeah

13:33

, yeah . When it's Dave a Mohamed or Ed people

13:36

like, oh yeah , he sounds cool and great . Yeah , I'd 80%

13:38

of people want to be his friend . So it's like, yeah, I

13:41

mean there's so many examples of it , which are , you know, maybe

13:43

you wanna tell your hair out, but yeah, it's, it's

13:45

out there and yeah , we can't deny it. I mean,

13:48

and on that, so if women want to sort

13:50

of build their visibility at work and they want

13:52

to have not succeed as just as

13:54

sort a very wide term, but if they want to at least build their visibility,

13:57

which probably is gonna take them out of their competent zone

13:59

and then bring in all these other issues that we're talking about, how

14:02

can women do that? Cuz typically we hold back

14:04

on this, some of us do always worry of making

14:06

total generals . Yeah , you're gender

14:08

, but you know, generally I think it's

14:11

about looking at the way that we show up and

14:13

the story that we have of ourselves. So,

14:16

you know, look at what your story is,

14:18

you know, do you have a story actually that if I speak

14:20

up, people won't like me, people think I'm

14:22

, I'm loud, people think I'm too forthright,

14:25

I might look foolish. You know, what, what

14:27

is it , the story and, and what

14:29

happened to you, I think is a great question.

14:32

What happened to me to give me my

14:34

story about what's acceptable and what,

14:36

what's possible for me? And I would

14:38

just encourage everybody

14:40

really, but to , to sort of speak earlier,

14:43

get their voice in the room, trust their intuition,

14:45

you know, don't wait until somebody else

14:47

says what you were thinking. You know, so

14:50

many times I coach women who say, you know, I sit there

14:52

in a meeting and I have all these thoughts, and then I'm, and

14:54

then a man says to them , you know, and I , I've had

14:56

a bit , oh my God, why didn't I say that? Well

14:58

actually don't hold back. Put yourself

15:01

out there, you know , you know, be asserted

15:03

even if you risk being, you know,

15:05

so occasionally seem to be pushy. If it's coming from

15:08

the, you know, from the right place, show

15:11

up, push yourself to show up and think

15:13

about the way to empower ourselves to do that

15:15

is thinking about what's my story of

15:17

myself? What am I making this mean

15:19

if I do show up?

15:21

I mean, I think the , you know, your question about gendered

15:24

issues, the people pleasing thing I

15:26

think is potentially quite gendered. Look, there are

15:28

plenty of men who are people pleasers , but actually I see

15:31

potentially more women than men who are people pleasers

15:33

. Of course it starts so young. I mean, the programming

15:35

starts when you are barely taking steps, doesn't

15:38

it? That you've gotta be good and be quiet and do

15:40

this and do that. And yeah, I could rant about that for

15:42

hours, but I won't <laugh> and

15:44

I mean mindset. How much does mindset play into this?

15:47

And we talk a lot about this. I mean, when it comes to

15:49

sort of excelling like this sort of positive

15:51

mindset, and I don't mean toxic positivity, but I

15:53

mean this kind of optimism, like I read this amazing

15:55

book, which I referenced quite a lot by a guy called Sean

15:58

Akel . He's a happiness

16:00

professor from Harvard. He's, he's toxics , you

16:02

knows Oprah personally , all this stuff. But anyway, he has all the stats

16:05

about optimism and how this can basically

16:07

improve your experience of life, relationships

16:10

work. I mean, how much do you think that plays into

16:12

success as well? Mindset is

16:14

everything because, you know, but

16:17

if we just talk about what mindset is? Mindset is

16:19

our, our beliefs, our values, our assumptions

16:22

about the world , about ourselves and, and

16:24

the world. So that frame, if

16:26

you like, that lens through which we see

16:28

the world gives us what we see. And I'd

16:31

prefer not to think about it in terms of

16:34

positive and negative, but, but about whether mindsets

16:37

are helpful or whether they're empowering

16:39

or not. And so, you know, this kind of the,

16:42

I agree with the, you know, the optimism and the

16:44

impact that it, that it has on the way that , that we

16:46

see the world. But I'd be wary of toxic

16:48

positivity. You know, this is not about

16:50

plastering a smile on

16:52

one's face and kind of , you know , showing

16:55

up . Oh , happy , you know , happy, happy, happy

16:57

. That's , I , I think that's not

16:59

where it's at in terms of mindset. So

17:02

where it's at in terms of mindset for me is

17:04

about really looking a bit deeper at what our

17:06

beliefs and assumptions are about the world

17:09

and how they were made up. Recognizing

17:11

that those, the frame,

17:13

the lens to which we see the world is

17:15

not the truth, it's just

17:17

the lens. It's just a set of glasses

17:19

that we put on. So, you

17:22

know, let me give you an an example. I

17:24

was working with the director of , uh, one of the lmh

17:26

businesses a while ago. And, and she had

17:29

a belief when we examined it that she was only

17:31

in her position because her boss knew her. She'd

17:33

worked with her in a previous organization. So her

17:36

belief when we examined it was, I'm only

17:38

here because my boss knew

17:40

me. Right. Well that's really interesting cuz you

17:42

can reframe that and you can look at that differently. What

17:44

about your only here because your boss

17:47

knew you, right? So she had , of course your

17:49

boss only employed you because she knew how fantastic

17:51

you were and what great work you doing , amazing reputation,

17:54

personal experience of how fabulous you are . Yeah

17:56

, thanks . All of a sudden, should

17:59

that reframe completely changed the way she

18:01

looked at it? She went , oh, okay , <laugh>

18:03

, okay . And so that's ch literally

18:05

changing the pair of glasses to look at things

18:07

differently. And so, you know, that gives you

18:09

a completely different view of things, doesn't it? If

18:11

you think that you don't really deserve the position, you're

18:14

only there, you know, because of a relationship. It's

18:16

a different set of glasses when you look at it and go, I'm

18:18

only here because my boss and you have fantastic,

18:21

I was right. Suddenly that makes all sorts

18:23

of different things possible. And so I

18:25

encourage my clients to look at whether

18:27

the mindsets they hold are empowering or

18:30

not. And given that it's all made up,

18:32

right? We don't know what the truth is. There isn't really a truth,

18:34

it's all made up. So what

18:36

are we making up? Let's make up stories

18:39

that are already helpful to us in

18:41

being who we wanna be in the world. So I am good

18:43

enough, I can learn and grow,

18:45

you know, I have unlimited potential. My

18:48

voice matters. You know, all

18:50

of these are really empowering

18:52

ways of seeing the world that I think obviously

18:55

then have a big impact in terms of how

18:57

you show up and you know, your question is about how you

18:59

excel well, you know, you're gonna be successful. It's

19:01

really helpful to have a set of beliefs

19:04

that enable that rather than get a new

19:06

way. Yeah, no , completely, gosh,

19:09

feel like I want to go and um , by mountain enough <laugh>

19:13

and then it's quite , it's really helped me . Yeah

19:15

, exactly . And then,

19:17

you know, before you actually get to those empowering

19:19

beliefs, it's , it's looking at what they are and then

19:21

acting as if that was the case and

19:24

seeing how the world responds to you. You know,

19:26

given it's all made up, let's act as if yeah , this

19:28

, that or the other and see, you know, see what difference you

19:30

get. And before long you find that actually that's

19:32

really helpful. <laugh> . Yeah , no , amazing. And

19:35

look , business has changed. I think, I don't know , uh, whether

19:37

Covid played a part in this or not. I know that there was a lot of

19:39

research at the beginning of Covid showing that all consumers

19:42

were much more empathetic and, you know, grateful.

19:44

And I think that kind of stayed and then it dipped again.

19:46

But definitely things have changed a

19:48

lot in the world of work when it comes to

19:51

things like authenticity, empathy,

19:54

you know, leaders are expected to be, you

19:56

know, to exhibit those traits and , and businesses are expected

19:58

to sort of act in this way as well, quite

20:00

rightly. I mean, has this changed the

20:02

way that you coach? Does it show up in your coaching? I'm

20:05

sure that it does. That's a great question. Yeah

20:07

. Let's just pause a moment in terms of how

20:09

has the world changed? I think there are two things going on

20:11

which have fundamentally shifted both

20:14

the world of work. And of course then the way that

20:16

leaders need to lead to be effective.

20:19

The , the first, I think the pandemic really has changed

20:21

people's expectations about living

20:23

a meaningful life, living a connection

20:25

with other humans, the things that are

20:27

important. People had a chance to stop and, and , and

20:30

examine what's really important to me here.

20:32

And some of the corporate facades that we

20:34

had before got stripped away . People do

20:36

expect different things in terms of the psychological

20:39

contract with their organizations and with their leaders now.

20:42

And then, you know, the second big shift for me in organizations

20:44

that's coming that we're just really

20:46

beginning to see now is ai. And

20:49

that's going to totally change the

20:52

face of leadership and, and the world

20:54

of work. I mean , it's already having an impact in terms of

20:56

people using strategy and things like

20:58

that. But you know, AI essentially

21:00

means that all the hard skills, the

21:02

things that people saw as strategic around,

21:05

you know, data analysis and you know, thinking

21:07

about strategic decisions and

21:09

recommendations for the future and all that kinda stuff

21:12

that the senior leaders have prize themselves

21:14

on will be done by ai. And

21:16

actually, you know, leaders of the future will

21:19

need to be able to, to use that data,

21:21

but fundamentally they will be employed

21:23

in future for their soft skills, so for

21:25

their, their leadership soul . So

21:28

for me it'll be , I lovely idea of leadership

21:30

soul in organizations. Actually the thing that's coming to

21:33

the for that's really important that AI can't

21:35

do and won't be able to do is this

21:38

stuff . It's the soft skills. It's certain the ability to connect

21:41

with people , to care about people, to

21:43

inspire people, you know, to motivate

21:46

and mobilize people towards a compelling

21:48

future, you know, and there isn't a robot that's,

21:50

you know, that's ever going to be able to do that.

21:52

So I think things really have shifted

21:55

quite fundamentally, but they're going to continue to

21:57

shift. We're in a period of massive change that

21:59

scale that's really gonna continue and accelerate.

22:02

And so I think this kind of

22:04

the desire for leaders to be

22:06

able to empathize to, you know,

22:08

be strong and courageous and

22:10

yet vulnerable to, you know, communicate clear

22:12

direction and listen to

22:15

their teams, you know, to be able to drive performance

22:17

and also demonstrate empathy and

22:19

understanding, be able to generate profit

22:21

but also focus in the short term but focus

22:23

on a sustainable future. All of these things are

22:25

coming to the floor . So your question really was

22:28

about how my coaching has changed. I think

22:31

now , my coaching over the last 20 years has always been

22:33

about connecting with the needs and concerns of

22:35

the client in front of me. What's shifted is the needs and

22:37

concerns of the clients in front of me. So

22:39

that's really interesting. I find that my clients now

22:42

are open to a deeper exploration.

22:44

They're less interested in

22:47

a behavioral performance focus and

22:49

they're more interested in seeking

22:51

meaning, seeking purpose, seeking connection.

22:55

And so, you know, my coaching has become much

22:57

more about developing your leadership soul . And

22:59

that for me that's about a connection with

23:01

a , an expanded self, a higher self. So

23:04

my coaching really focuses on that now. Well,

23:06

a couple of things. I have to say, leadership soul is

23:08

one of the most fantastic things I've heard in

23:10

recent times. And if it isn't trademarked, I think

23:12

it needs trademark really quickly. Thanks. I

23:14

just came up with that the other day actually

23:17

. Do you look , look title,

23:19

I mean come on. This is fun . This speaks to,

23:21

this just speaks to exactly everything that I'm trying

23:23

to have conversations about and the , the things that are

23:25

bothering me that I think are coming up time

23:28

and time again about how, you know, our

23:30

world is sort of geared up in a certain way, which isn't necessarily

23:32

the optimum way for us to live as humans

23:34

that we're supposed to be living. And then you've got capitalism

23:37

and patriarch , blah , blah , blah . But I think, yeah, what

23:39

you are saying makes me feel incredibly hopeful that

23:41

people are coming to you wanting

23:44

to sort of work on these issues also,

23:46

that this is the way the world is working and

23:48

that this is something that AI can't operate. And

23:50

then also, I mean, just from personal experience of

23:52

, you know, some of my team that I've worked

23:54

with who are these fantastic, I mean, I don't wanna generalize,

23:57

but these Gen z I won't say kids cause

23:59

it sounds , sounds

24:02

negative, but you know , they're very strong

24:04

young people and their values are just

24:06

completely different and quite rightly

24:09

so. Like, they don't wanna hustle. They , they , they

24:11

will work very hard and they will grind, they

24:14

give everything to their job. But equally like

24:16

they go early in the morning to meditate, they go to bed

24:18

early, you know, they're constantly questioning,

24:20

you know, where is my meaning in this? Like where

24:22

, where's our meaning? Well we have conversations on the

24:24

daily about meaning and purpose and how do we find

24:27

that ? Yes . You know, essentially our job in PR is often

24:29

to sell stuff to people. Stuff that they might

24:31

not, they can't afford. And that that

24:33

really , that can really drain you if that's not, you know,

24:35

your sort of values and your , how you choose to live.

24:38

So how can we find meaning and the stories that our

24:40

clients are telling And we established really

24:42

in incredible conversations though . I

24:44

mean this whole topic is making me feel hopeful.

24:47

Yeah, absolutely. And there are two things in that.

24:49

One is to deal with Gen Z now

24:52

and generation Z now leaders need to

24:54

be leading in a different way that appeals to this

24:56

desire for meaning and connection, but

24:58

also, you know, thinking about who's gonna lead

25:00

us in future. You know, these , these generation said

25:03

that aren't going to do the things that some of our

25:05

generation have done in terms of sacrificing

25:08

self for the corporate <laugh> , you know, the corporate

25:10

machine. You know, that just doesn't work for them.

25:12

And so if we wanna have leaders of organizations in

25:14

the future, we really have to be doing things quite differently

25:16

to appeal to those people, to want to be leaders.

25:19

Yeah, very much so . And that was the point actually that I was gonna

25:21

make when I I ran outta steam was that best Gen

25:23

Z is their one day gonna be like the CEOs,

25:25

aren't they? So they're gonna bring

25:27

a very different perspective into it. I saw a stat

25:29

recently, which was, gosh, it was a bit depressing.

25:32

It said something like, I don't know , something like 80%

25:34

of women they're gonna drop out of the

25:36

workplace or they're gonna pull back because

25:38

they don't see the female, the female leaders they

25:40

see it's not something they wanna emulate in

25:43

terms of yeah, you know, 12 hour days, never

25:45

seeing your kids. Like if you choose to have kids, you

25:47

know, not seeing your family, not being able to explore your passions

25:49

outside of work. I spoke that Anne Hs

25:51

, um, recently, she's the lady who was Jeff

25:54

Bezos's number, you know, right

25:56

, right-hand were burned . And she worked at Google with Eric

25:58

Schmidt and she said something to me which was, you know, your

26:00

job has to give as much to you as

26:02

you give to it. It's just like

26:04

a bomb going off in my head. I was like, I've just, cause I'm

26:07

from the different generation, you know, my mentality was,

26:09

you know, you work, you work, you work, you give your job everything,

26:12

you know, you're lucky to be here. You

26:14

know, it's, it , it very much wasn't at all about what

26:16

I was getting from it , you know, I was getting a paycheck and you

26:18

know, if I was lucky I would rise through the ranks and you know , I should

26:20

be grateful for that. Whereas that is just

26:22

not the mindset we need to have at all. And the thought that

26:24

my job should give something to me, I was like, oh yeah, of

26:26

course it should, but of course it should <laugh>

26:29

so we don't , I just , my programming was all

26:31

different. And that's often the case,

26:33

right? Yes. I think it's fascinating

26:36

and actually, you know, I encourage

26:38

my clients to, to see work as

26:41

another means of their own growth.

26:43

So our personal growth doesn't just kind of happen outta

26:46

work. Actually everything that we do is a curriculum

26:48

for our greater expansion and work is there's,

26:50

you know, there's no greater kind of challenge to the

26:52

human, human self and the human soul than

26:55

some of the experiences that we , that we have at work. And

26:57

if we think about it in the right way, it's a wonderful

26:59

tool for expansion growth and, and you

27:01

know, becoming a bigger, better

27:03

versions of ourselves. Yeah. Sometimes

27:06

we need that . Right . I think I wanted talk

27:08

to you about your method . Cause you have this method which just

27:10

sounds fantastic and it's called Success Accelerated

27:13

. And you say that it's the

27:15

art and science of transforming your inner gain to

27:17

rapidly achieve aligned real world results

27:20

using cutting edge change , change technologies

27:23

to enable you to become aware, eliminate

27:25

limiting beliefs and step into your full potential

27:27

to create the life and business you seek . I mean, this

27:29

just sounds absolutely incredible. I

27:31

mean, you know , I'm just a sat here , what

27:34

can I sort of take away from this ? What are

27:36

three things now that I could start doing or

27:38

we could start doing to change our situations

27:40

at work if they're not working for us? Yeah,

27:43

great question. So let me learn that for

27:45

you if I can. I think it's, I'm

27:48

gonna give you three things and first of all to understand

27:50

what it's based on. So my work is

27:52

based on, on the , uh,

27:54

the mindset that the way we see

27:56

things, and we talked about that just a , just

27:58

a moment ago, affects what happens

28:00

out there. And so, you know,

28:02

our life is kind of a , a printout and a

28:04

mirror image, if you like, of what's going on

28:07

in us. And so, you know, my beliefs

28:09

about the world shape, how I interact with

28:11

it, they shape what shows up for me, they

28:13

shape what's possible for me. So for

28:15

example, if I'm somebody who

28:18

has a belief that if I don't do

28:20

it, nobody will, then I'm gonna have

28:22

to drive really hard to make stuff

28:24

happen. I'm gonna have to be pushy, I'm

28:26

gonna have to, you know, I'm not gonna trust life . I'm

28:29

actually gonna micromanage the universe to make

28:31

things happen. Yeah , <laugh> , I

28:33

know lots of us and lots of us , you

28:35

know, successful people tend to have this orientation

28:38

to the world, right? It's, I'm gonna drive it, I'm

28:40

gonna make it happen. But actually it's

28:42

a lot to carry and it's tiring , exhausting.

28:44

I mean , yeah , I'm side eyeing myself

28:47

here , <laugh> . Exactly

28:49

, you know , what we're not doing. It's

28:52

allowing and getting in flow

28:54

with the things that need , that want

28:56

to emerge at the right moment and allowing

28:59

things to happen, allowing the universe

29:01

to kind of step forward and support us and , you know, and

29:03

other people also to step forward and support us in

29:05

, in making things go. So that's

29:07

just a little example of how I see the world can

29:10

kind of make a difference to what's possible for

29:12

me. And we know that about 95%

29:14

of our life is run outta unconscious patterns.

29:17

And those unconscious patterns were laid down in your

29:19

very early years, so they weren't even laid down by you,

29:21

right? So your unconscious programming on

29:24

which you run your life and which

29:26

gives you what shows up in your life was a

29:28

program that was installed by your parents, by, by

29:30

other people that you interacted with early on. And

29:33

you're running it completely unconsciously, most

29:35

of the time you're not even aware of what

29:37

those patterns are. So what I do

29:39

with my clients , and this is your , you know, this is the

29:41

success accelerated methodology is three

29:43

things. It's around becoming aware of

29:45

what your , your patterns are. It's around connecting

29:48

to the most expanded version of yourself

29:51

and acting from there. And then it's about

29:54

programming your future to actually actively

29:56

create the future that you want. So I'll just say

29:58

a little bit more about each of

30:00

those three so you kind of understand a bit more about

30:02

what the , the method is. So, so the first of those around

30:05

becoming more aware, what I encourage my clients to

30:07

do is to really notice their triggers and

30:10

to use that as a , a clue to

30:12

what needs, what needs healing or what they , what

30:14

, what's showing up for you and where the

30:16

work is for you to do. So, I really like the

30:18

work of Dr. Gabel and he's

30:21

got beautiful metaphor. If

30:23

you imagine a gun, a fully loaded gun, the

30:25

trigger on a gun is really small, right? And

30:27

what happens is that when the trigger is first

30:29

, the fully compacted and compressed

30:32

explosives in the barrel detonate

30:35

, right? And so it can be a small thing,

30:37

but it can create a big explosion.

30:39

But actually, you know that you are the gun. You

30:41

, you are fully packed and loaded and

30:44

sometimes it only takes a small trigger to make

30:46

that explode. And it's not the other

30:48

person who's packed with the explosives,

30:50

it's you. And so actually what I

30:52

encourage my clients to do is to look at what are the triggers,

30:54

what are the things where they're exploding? What

30:56

are the things, what are the patterns that

30:59

keep repeating that indicate that there

31:01

may be something helpful here for us to

31:03

unpick and change. One

31:05

of my own personal patterns that I've had for a long time

31:07

obviously is around being personally vulnerable

31:09

and and asking for support with things.

31:12

You know, I've got a pattern that says, I don't

31:14

need you, you can't help me, I

31:16

don't need you, you can't help me. But that only kicks in

31:18

when I'm feeling really vulnerable.

31:21

I become the isolated little girl who

31:23

just says, right, you know, I'm gonna do this on

31:25

my own and it's really helpful for

31:27

me to recognize the situations in which that

31:29

gets triggered, where it shows up and you know, then I

31:32

kind of turn to myself and I recognize my

31:34

nine year old self having a good time , having

31:37

a <laugh> , having a tantrum in response

31:39

to feeling like they're not getting their head needs met.

31:41

And just kind of be with that a little bit

31:43

and go, oh , okay , thank you very much . That's not really

31:45

appropriate in this situation . Really,

31:48

you know , 50 something that would be much be

31:51

much more helpful just to say to somebody, Hey , you know what?

31:53

I'm really struggling with this. It might be really

31:56

lovey on the support for your inputs . So that's

31:58

the first thing, noticing triggers. The

32:00

second is then what you do with that

32:03

is to connect to what I call your

32:05

most expanded version of yourself. People

32:07

call this the higher self , but fundamentally

32:10

what it is is me on a good day, me

32:12

at my best. You know, we all have those days where everything's

32:15

rocking and rolling. We're completely in a flow , we

32:17

, you know, things are just, it's

32:19

great, it's all going really well. And what

32:22

I encourage my clients to do is really get connected with

32:24

what that looks and feels like for them. So they are

32:26

able to bring that state

32:29

into challenging situations. So, you know,

32:31

at my best I know that for me I'm courageous,

32:33

I'm inspiring, I'm warm, I'm

32:36

alive, I'm fun, I'm funny,

32:38

all of these things. So there's plenty of days where I'm

32:40

none of those things <laugh>, but you

32:43

know, but at my best, I'm all of those

32:45

things. How do you encourage your , how do you get your clients

32:47

to kinda is , is it like a visualization thing

32:49

where , you know, I'd be playing tennis then

32:52

I'd be like walking off the call like having just

32:54

been amazing. Then I'd go and see some friends, then I'd

32:56

run amazing at Ben . Like is it , is it a visual

32:58

thing? Like how does it work exactly? Well

33:00

some people are really great at visualization for other people it's

33:02

more about feeling, but what I get my clients to do

33:04

is to identify through two or three situations

33:07

where they've been absolutely at their best and just

33:09

kind of elaborate that for me. So kind of talk me through

33:11

it. What was the state, how did you feel? What

33:13

was that like? You know, how did

33:16

you experience yourself? What was your state

33:18

of being? And then we get some words that

33:20

really capture that and that

33:22

helps people define what I call the energetic

33:25

signature, which is this energetic signature

33:27

of me at my best, my higher self. And it's

33:29

really useful to bring that into our conscious

33:31

awareness because the more aware we are of that and

33:34

the more we know how that feels, the

33:37

more we can use that state, we can generate that

33:39

state before we then go and do difficult things. So,

33:41

you know, if we're going into, I dunno , a

33:43

difficult conversation or we're going into a board meeting or

33:45

we're going through something that's hard, it's

33:48

really great to be going into it from a place where

33:50

I am at my best or I'm courageous , I'm inspiring,

33:52

I'm, you know, connected, I'm fun, all

33:54

of those things rather than small and nervous

33:57

<laugh> and I'm not good enough and all of the

33:59

hell of the other bits. And so it's , it's about really

34:02

elaborating that . So that's the second part , getting really clear

34:04

about what your higher self looks like and being

34:06

able to connect with this at will . And the third is

34:09

about pre-programming your

34:11

future. So this

34:14

is based on the idea that we're energetic

34:16

being and that

34:18

what we think about and the frequency

34:20

if you like, at which we resonate, which we

34:22

vibrate ourselves, has an influence

34:25

on what occurs around us. And so what we attract

34:27

to us like attracts like , and so if

34:29

you're on a certain energetic frequency, it's

34:31

like kind of tuning in a radio, you know, if

34:33

you're a certain energetic frequency, you're gonna

34:35

pick up that, that station. And it's the same with

34:38

us, with us as human beings. And I

34:40

think actually, you know, we don't use the power

34:42

of our minds enough to

34:45

create our futures. And so when

34:47

we're done with kind of clearing up the past and the triggers

34:49

and we kind of we're aware of what, of

34:51

the higher self that we're wanting to, to act

34:54

from , then actually it's about kind of projecting

34:56

forward and thinking about different situations

34:58

that we're gonna experience and how we want those to turn

35:00

out. So I'll give you an example of that. Before

35:03

I moved to Dubai, I did a meditation

35:05

every morning where I imagined

35:08

meeting my kind of

35:10

people and every morning I'd,

35:12

I'd just sort of imagined these different people that would

35:14

come into my life and how it would feel to meet

35:16

them and what they'd be like and the sorts of things that

35:18

we'd do. And got really connected

35:21

and present with that . And the moment I

35:23

moved to Dubai and just the very moment I

35:25

moved to Dubai, I started getting kind of connections

35:28

and messages and

35:30

invitations to things that were really from

35:32

my kind of people. And since I've

35:34

been here, I've just met nothing but my tribe. It's

35:36

been really extraordinary. But I firmly

35:39

believe that that was cause of the, the sort of pre-programming

35:41

that I did. And we can use this for all kinds of

35:43

situations, you know, so we're

35:46

going to a work event, it's a networking event. Everybody

35:48

hates networking events, don't , I think they're kind weird

35:50

if we don't hate networking events , I hate networking events

35:53

, but I , them and I date

35:55

, I think , wow, think wow, wouldn't it be amazing

35:57

to meet somebody that I got really connected

35:59

with you , somebody where I really shared some interests

36:02

and you know, just meet somebody who would

36:04

be on my wavelength and I call up

36:06

my energetic signature and then I go to the event

36:08

and lo and behold I tend to, I tend

36:10

to meet those, those kinds of people. So I

36:13

think, you know, using the power of the mind to

36:15

create the future that we really want for

36:17

ourselves is the third part of the technique. Amazing

36:19

. Gosh, sounds fantastic. Yeah,

36:21

I love this energetic signature that you talk about

36:23

and kind of like, I mean, it , it makes

36:26

such sense and of course we should

36:28

do it, but I think just in the general melay of day-to-day

36:30

life and you've got meetings, deadlines, I've

36:33

gotta do this deck or someone needs me to check this and

36:35

then, oh you've gotta go and have a meeting with the ceo . Like

36:38

, I think it's hard to then you , you just

36:40

skip into it, right? You're just like, okay , yeah , yeah, yeah. But

36:42

actually having that pause and be like, okay , I need to

36:44

gather myself, I need to get my mind in the right space

36:47

before I do that allows you to be a lot more intentional

36:49

and that that Kelly should be summarized. And

36:52

actually the more practice we get with it , the easier it is for

36:54

us to call up that stage of being and the less time it

36:56

takes, it just takes a few moments for us

36:58

to reconnect with what we know about ourselves at

37:00

our best and bring back that stage and then

37:02

we can, you know , go straight into that meeting with the board

37:04

or whatever in , in a great place. Yeah,

37:06

that muscle memory, once you've worked the muscle memory it

37:08

, it definitely is easier to go back to

37:10

it for sure. So can you give me a

37:12

couple, I'm sorry to keep just , just asking you for tips and,

37:15

and you've got so much experience. I just wanna ask you so

37:17

many questions about this is life is really stressful,

37:19

especially at the moment. You know, the world's in a horrible, hideous

37:22

place. I mean we're very lucky in the UAE every day are

37:24

so lucky to be here. But if people are

37:26

feeling the squeeze , you know, if you've got a family, you

37:29

know you are trying to pay your rent, there's a cost of

37:31

living crisis, you know , trying to support ourselves.

37:33

I mean, how can we sort of try

37:36

and stay grounded and connected to what's important

37:38

to us and not lose sight of what is important to

37:40

us in the midst? All this, you know, general just

37:42

living and doing, how do we stay

37:44

connected to what's important to us? It's

37:46

a great question cuz already the focus on

37:48

how we ground and get connected to what's important

37:51

is the thing. So paying attention to

37:53

that. So, you know, grounding, I

37:55

think it's really simple. It's about getting

37:57

off your phone, getting away from the, the

37:59

laptop and getting out into nature even

38:02

for a really short period of time. Go find a

38:04

horizon to adjust your eyes, to

38:06

take your shoes off and feel some grass under

38:08

your feet. If you're lucky enough like

38:10

we are to live in the uae, go find some sand,

38:13

you know, we can get your feet in the sand and

38:15

once you're doing it, just grieve and

38:18

allow yourself to come down out of

38:20

your head. Where , let's face it, most

38:22

of us in the in corporate life spend most of our times

38:24

in our head come down out of your

38:26

head into your body and just connect your

38:28

body through breathing and through touching something

38:31

natural. I think that's an incredibly

38:33

grounding thing to do . It doesn't actually need to take terribly

38:35

long, just need to take a few minutes to get up

38:38

and go out , go outside and, and pay

38:40

attention to that. So I'd

38:42

say that's the first thing. Second thing I'd say is

38:44

around practice of developing your presence.

38:47

And what I mean by that is your presence with

38:49

yourself. I think we lose presence with ourself

38:51

. We're so busy flying around the place

38:54

and, and , and you know, really kinda overstimulated

38:57

that we don't listen , take

38:59

time to listen to our inner

39:01

voice. And actually that's

39:04

a practice of stillness, of just

39:06

taking, again, taking a moment. These things

39:08

don't need to be very long . Taking a moment to

39:10

disconnect and to breathe and

39:13

to get still and to come into reconnection

39:16

with yourself and ask yourself,

39:19

get connected with your own gut, being in your own intuition,

39:22

you know, what's going on here. One activity I

39:24

love is I do this in the morning is I put my hand on

39:26

my heart and I just connect with my heart and I breathe

39:28

a few times into my heart and I

39:31

just say my heart, you

39:33

know, how are you, what, what do you

39:35

have for , you know , what do you , what do you need me to

39:37

know today? And just getting that, yeah

39:39

, the reconnection with our heart being heartfelt.

39:41

I think that's, we've talked a lot about mindset

39:44

and I think we spend a lot of time in our minds

39:46

and getting any practice where we get reconnect

39:48

with our bodies, I think is,

39:50

is really helpful. So, you know, these simple grounding,

39:53

breathing, yoga, you

39:56

know, any of those things are really helpful. And

39:58

then the third invention perspective, I

40:00

would talk with my clients about doing something which I call

40:02

getting on the balcony. You know , we spend so

40:04

much time on the dance floor in among

40:07

, in the, in , in amongst

40:10

everything dancing, dancing away like crazy

40:13

to the music. And actually I encourage people to get onto

40:15

the balcony and look down and different

40:19

perspective's . Taking step

40:23

stop moment and step perspective

40:25

is everything . There's a technique

40:27

called open awareness. And in corporate life

40:29

we tend to get incredibly focused just

40:32

on a very narrow set of things in front

40:34

of us, of our , you know, our males and our tasks.

40:37

And actually what the , the reason we lose perspective

40:40

is we can't have perspective when we're just , when we have such a

40:42

narrow focus. And so open awareness is about

40:44

expanding our focus out

40:48

to take in a broader perspective.

40:50

And it's a very simple thing to do. You can actually kind

40:52

of take your hands in front of your face and just move

40:54

them out to the side until

40:57

they get to the outer peripheries of your

40:59

vision and hold it there

41:01

for a second and literally kind of soften

41:03

your focus and expand your focus to take

41:06

in a broader perspective. It's

41:08

a really simple technique that takes very

41:11

little time to do , but actually we

41:13

look at things completely differently when we look

41:15

at them from an expanded perspective because

41:18

we're then able to take in the periphery, we're able to take

41:20

in the context. And so

41:23

often in, in leadership, we're so focused

41:25

on content that we completely

41:27

lose context. And actually context is

41:29

everything. So taking these moments

41:31

and from that perspective, think about what are

41:34

my priorities? Not from the narrow, very

41:36

closed. Yeah, exactly. Expand

41:38

the perspective and then think about what's

41:40

important to me from this point of view. You see

41:43

different things. Gosh, both such

41:45

useful tips. Thank you. So I love the hard one

41:47

hand on the heart. I think that's really lovely. I've

41:49

recently started and also connecting with yourself.

41:52

Recently I've started driving home from work in silence.

41:54

I'm a big podcast listener, I love podcast. So

41:57

I'm , I've always , I've always seen the car as , you know , it's , it's

41:59

another place I must have waste the time. Let me listen to

42:01

an audio book , let me have a podcast on , let me optimize

42:03

every little bit of time that I have. And then last

42:06

couple of days I've just literally driven home in silence and D's

42:08

actually got me humming. Sometimes I

42:11

feel very conscious about humming, just, you know , I'm always, there's

42:14

always someone around like the office at home. No

42:16

one could hear me if I humming the car. So this, yeah , I mean

42:18

obviously you can pull up alongside me at the traffic lights, just don't

42:20

look at me in case I'm pulling some weird face. But

42:23

I just, yeah, silence is very powerful.

42:25

And just being with yourselves and you

42:28

know, I don't really watch no doing absolutely

42:30

nothing at the lost Art of doing

42:32

nothing. Nothing <laugh>,

42:36

I mean, yeah, when was the last time? I mean, because

42:38

yeah , we've got a million things to do and then the guilt of everything

42:40

that you've got to do. But yeah, in the car all I can do is drive

42:43

and, and then and just be , oh , was such a , I had

42:45

like half an hour of just complete silences obviously

42:47

apart from the traffic. Very refreshing. And

42:49

yeah, this is a question I've really wanted to ask you and I think

42:52

you're gonna have something great to tell me on this. And especially this podcast,

42:54

part of the reason why I set it up is I'm constantly

42:56

struggling with, you know, I want

42:59

to live a spiritual life. I want to live a life with meaning.

43:01

But that's often, you know, there's the cut

43:03

and thrust of the corporate world and , and the demands it

43:06

places on me. It's often at odds with that. And,

43:08

but what I'm hearing you say is that actually there's a way

43:10

for the two to coexist a lot more. And it's coming through

43:13

a lot more in your coaching, which makes me feel very hopeful. So

43:15

how can we, and how, how do you, for

43:18

example, balance your spiritual needs

43:20

and your desires with this very corporate world that

43:22

you go into, these very high level CEOs that

43:25

you are coaching, how do you manage to balance them? Can we balance

43:27

them? Tell me how you handle it.

43:29

Such a great question. I love it. So I

43:31

think it begs a further question, which is what do we

43:33

mean by a spiritual? What do we mean by a spiritual

43:36

life? And you know, my answer to that is,

43:38

a spiritual life is one that keeps our inner

43:40

light alive. And what I mean

43:43

by inner light is, is the light of our

43:45

consciousness that connects

43:47

us with ourselves, with

43:49

other human beings and with, with

43:51

the universe. And I think you know what you've

43:53

pointed out, it's so true. You , our day-to-day

43:55

life, too many males, overwork,

43:58

smartphone, relentless, bad news,

44:01

kind of numbing routines, pressure

44:04

demands, all of these things has an extinguishing

44:06

effect on our inner light . And so I

44:09

think we need intentional practices

44:12

to focus on that inner light and, and keep

44:14

it alive. We keep that connection with ourself, with

44:16

others and , and with the universe. And I think some of the things that

44:18

we've already talked about are great ways of doing that.

44:20

But there's a wonderful quote from Eckhart

44:22

Foley , who I absolutely love, who says, know

44:25

what sparks the light in you and then

44:27

use that to illuminate the world. And

44:29

actually for all of us, what sparks the lightness

44:32

will be different. And yeah , for some of us

44:34

it'll be shaking things up, getting outta routine, doing,

44:36

taking , you know, go do something different , completely different,

44:39

take a different route . Hey , I'm genuine simple things

44:41

. Just shake up the routine a little bit, take

44:44

some time out, you know , do something that's

44:46

restorative. Do something that helps you rekindle.

44:49

Do something that's fun. Right.

44:51

<laugh> , I mean , just have some

44:54

fun, actually is one of the best

44:56

ways to, to kind of rekindle

44:58

ourselves. And I

45:00

think, you know, the demand is as , as leaders

45:02

is for us to, to shine brightly, not as

45:05

egos, you know , uh, because we are wonderful,

45:08

but actually to illuminate the spark in

45:10

other people. And to do that, we have to

45:12

keep the spark in our , in ourselves alive by

45:14

being really fully awake and really

45:16

connected with, with the things

45:18

that , uh, that are meaningful and matter matter

45:21

to us. Amazing. And look

45:23

, you're so wise and you're so full

45:25

of incredible energy when I speak to

45:27

you. I mean, do you ever wake up in the morning and

45:29

just think, I just can't do this today? I

45:31

mean, I just feel like rubbish, like life

45:33

is awful. Or do you just like ping out of bed every

45:36

day ? Like , is this this flip environment ? And if you

45:38

do have, if you do have bad days , yeah

45:40

. How do you handle them? How do you motivate yourself to get

45:42

through them? Look , we all have bad days. It's a

45:44

part of a human condition, isn't it ? Sometimes we

45:46

just wake up and sometimes I wake up

45:48

and , and think I can't do life. It's not that

45:50

I can't do the work that I did fact , I never think I

45:53

can't do the work that I do because actually there's the

45:56

connection with other human beings. No matter

45:58

how bad I feel , the connection

46:00

immediately brings me back to my light

46:02

and to my purpose. So, so

46:04

I never think, I can't do clients, but I

46:06

sometimes wake up and think I can't do life . And in

46:09

fact, you know, I was married for 10

46:11

years and I got divorced about five years ago.

46:13

Since then, I've had moments of quite

46:15

high anxiety. I think, you know, kind of

46:17

navigating the world solo without

46:20

the sort of the backup team of a safe harbor

46:22

of a of a marriage, you know, it's can

46:24

be, it can bring up a lot of fear. I

46:26

feel fearful sometimes in, in my

46:28

life. And, you know, when the anxiety rises

46:31

then I have techniques that, that help

46:33

with that. And so I

46:36

do a few things as a regular practice to

46:38

keep myself where I need to be, to be able to show up as

46:40

a light for my , for my clients. The

46:42

first two days is exercise. I exercise every single

46:45

day. I move, I do something

46:47

every morning because that really helps to

46:49

keep , to keep the anxiety down and keep you in , in

46:51

the right place. I meditate, you know, I

46:53

meditate every day and I get connected with other people. Those

46:56

are the things that really help me to be able to handle

46:59

all of the things that, you know, the challenges

47:01

that life throws at death . But , and do you always

47:03

want to exercise, but you do , do you

47:05

just not always want to , but you do anyway? It's

47:07

a commitment I have to a regular practice.

47:10

And it's what's interesting, non-negotiable. It's

47:12

a non-negotiable. Absolutely. I start the

47:14

day with half an hour of movement every single day. It's

47:16

just, it's not, that's not a chore , it's just what I

47:18

do. And actually the wonderful thing about habits is

47:20

that if we do them for long enough, they just become part of

47:23

our routine and then we don't have to think about it. So,

47:25

you know, if you're in a place where you have to decide

47:27

whether you're gonna go to the gym or not, not, you're probably not

47:29

gonna go to the gym, right? There's no decision to be made.

47:31

This is what I do, you know? So

47:33

I get up the first thing, I have a a morning routine.

47:35

I'm a big kind of routines actually. So I have a morning

47:38

routine that involves some, some

47:40

meditation and reconnecting with, with

47:42

self and with the , with cosmic. And

47:44

then I do some exercise, and then I do some reading

47:47

and writing. And that's my morning routine. And

47:49

you know, I know for a lot of people, the hustle and bustle

47:52

of family life and yeah . And you get out and get

47:54

to a , to a corporate job makes that

47:56

challenging. But it's about a commitment. It's about what

47:59

your priorities are and how do you make time to do that . You

48:01

know , maybe you need to go to bed a little bit earlier and get up a little bit

48:03

earlier . <laugh> watch

48:06

one last episode of, of whatever it's

48:08

that we're tuned into right now and go

48:10

to bed. Yeah , no, I agree. One of my

48:12

friends recently said something, she's, she's kind of transformed.

48:15

She's gone through this whole like journey and she's lost

48:17

loads of weight, she's got super fit and it's fantastic. And

48:19

she said, she gets a lot of questions from people saying, oh

48:21

, but how did you find an exercise that you really enjoyed?

48:24

Like, I just don't like any of it. And she said, I

48:26

kind of feel like we're that , that that's the wrong question.

48:28

Like, like you're saying, it's like a commitment that you

48:30

make. And she said, you know, I , I don't enjoy

48:32

every workout. You know, sometimes it's hard

48:35

and it's tough, but I do it anyway.

48:37

And because I know that I'm gonna do it anyway, I just do it.

48:39

Which is kind of like my mindset. Often I'm driving

48:41

to the beach for a run and literally as I'm driving there

48:43

, I'm like, don't wanna do this. I'm

48:45

too tired. It's gonna be too, at the moment, it's

48:47

gonna be too hot and I'll have to really stop myself. Well, I'm

48:50

gonna do it anyway. So either you moan and make it

48:52

harder <laugh> or you just get on with it, Kelly

48:54

and just do it anyway because you're just making it

48:56

harder for yourself here. So, yeah. And do I really wanna drag

48:58

myself up to the cross trainer at seven in the morning when

49:00

I've done school drop off ? No, I don't really. I'm

49:03

much rather sit and eat a bagel, but I'm just not. I

49:05

love that Tony Robbins not negotiating

49:07

with yourself Business . I mean , he's, he's extreme. I'm

49:09

not that extreme at all. Like there definitely days when I don't , I

49:11

mean I probably manage four days a week, but

49:14

this kind of like just getting on and doing it and it's

49:16

just a non-negotiable and then it's just, it's habit. I

49:18

agree. Life gets better when we act outta

49:21

commitments, you know? And that we have those,

49:23

those commitments. So in this case, it's a commitment

49:25

to feeling great and to, you know, knowing

49:27

that that is a route to it. And therefore it's

49:29

a, it's a commitment. That's what I'm gonna do

49:31

. Yep . You're gonna feel great afterwards, so don't

49:33

worry about the bit that you have to do to get through that

49:36

is not always gonna belo around on a yoga man

49:38

and having a fantastic, yeah , a really easy

49:40

run. Often they're not easy for me at all. I'm

49:43

not a natural runner. Am I enough about my

49:45

exercise routine? I'm interested to know like

49:47

in the last five years or so, cause I feel

49:49

like you are kind of totally up to date with, you

49:52

know , new beliefs and you've got this growth mindset.

49:54

Is there anything new that you've adopted

49:58

that's really improved your life? Yeah, in

50:00

terms of beliefs, for

50:02

me, the belief that a founder has made, the biggest difference

50:05

recently has , has been that we are energetic

50:07

beings having a physical experience. And

50:10

as such, we get to experience

50:12

the joy of this world. So

50:14

that drives me to want to be, to

50:16

savor it, to go and experience

50:19

the, the awe of a sunset to

50:22

kind of get in touch with the , the beauty of

50:24

a , of a and be

50:26

awake for it. I know that there's only so

50:28

long that I'm going to be in this form on

50:31

this, on this earth. And actually, you

50:33

know, when I return to nonphysical form, that's

50:35

my belief. Whatever, you know, I know other people have

50:37

other beliefs about what is , but when I return to nonphysical

50:40

form, I won't be able to experience these things. And

50:42

so actually I want to experience all

50:44

of them now and I want to be awaken alive for

50:46

them . So that's, you know, that in terms of beliefs, that's the

50:48

first they , in terms of behaviors,

50:52

the, it's back to the conversation we were just having. Actually,

50:54

the thing that's been transformative me over

50:56

the last couple of years , um, since lockdown

50:58

actually has been , um, lifting heavy weights. And

51:01

I've always been an exerciser, but I've always

51:04

stayed clear of lifting heavy things and now

51:06

I lift really heavy weight . So, you know, I can dead

51:08

lift my own body weight. Um , my goal is here

51:10

is to be able to do unassisted pullups,

51:13

which, you know , uh, involves a , yeah

51:15

, a certain, a certain degree of, of arm strength

51:17

through a weight ratio, which, you know,

51:19

has been sadly lacking in , in the past. But I'm

51:22

, but I'm going there . And

51:24

you know, what is really clear

51:26

to me is that taking care of the body

51:28

has an incredible effect on the mind , and

51:30

particularly lifting heavy weights . It does something,

51:32

it releases something into our bloodstream

51:36

that, that neurobiologists have been talking about

51:38

recently, which just makes us feel happier.

51:40

And that's why I do it. But it also makes

51:42

you look awesome. So , uh, <laugh> <laugh>

51:45

, which is always a bonus, right?

51:47

Yeah. Those sleeveless dresses are Yeah.

51:50

Are gonna be a lot more attractive to you afterwards. Yeah,

51:52

no , this is so interesting. This is so interesting.

51:55

There's one other thing actually that's made a massive difference

51:57

to my life. I'm doing it on a regular basis and that's

51:59

meditation. I sort of alluded to it,

52:01

but I'd , I'd scarfed around it for kind

52:04

of 20 years and I'd tried a bit here and

52:06

there and just never a really kind of click with it. But

52:08

actually I do a really simple practice and it

52:10

was one, pretty much talked to me by my

52:12

nephew Milo, who's who when he was six,

52:14

he suffers with autism words . He

52:17

has, I mean, I don't autism.

52:19

Um, so he's neuro divergent and the , you know, the world gets

52:22

pretty overwhelming for him quite quickly. And he's been

52:24

taught a technique which he calls letting the

52:26

world sounds in when

52:28

he sits cross legs with his, his kind of fingers

52:30

together. And he just lets the sounds of the world and

52:33

he focuses on the darks cracking

52:35

in and the bees buzzing and the trees

52:37

are rustling and the birds tweeting

52:40

and all of these things. And it's just a wonderful

52:43

technique for just getting present with what's out

52:45

there around. And actually, you know, what it

52:47

does for him is it calls his overheated

52:49

mind and gives him that moment to

52:51

come back into presence. And you know, what I find is

52:53

that regular meditation just allows,

52:56

it does exactly that. It , it kind of, it

52:58

stills the minded , it detaches

53:00

me from the content of my thoughts in

53:02

a way that allows new insights to

53:04

come to the fore . And it helps me be calmly,

53:07

you know , in slow and be really present. So the

53:09

thing that I always recommend to my clients is that they integrate

53:11

some kind of stillness practice. It only has to be 10

53:14

minutes. I can hear every , again , we've got time to meditate,

53:16

when am I gonna meditate this

53:19

and other before I get to work ? Ok , 10

53:21

minutes. Anybody can find 10 minutes in

53:23

their life, right? So I recommend an

53:26

app called Waking Up by Sam Harris to

53:28

get started, which has a 10 minute daily meditation.

53:30

You don't even have to kind of know what you're

53:32

doing, you just listen along through it. And it's , uh,

53:35

it's really great for bringing that , that

53:37

stillness into my life now . I completely agree. And

53:39

that's the kind of practical advice that I live for doctors . Um

53:41

, her frid from the lighthouse , who

53:44

was also one of my guests, she does it for 11

53:46

minutes. There's some science about 11 minutes being

53:48

better than 10. But anyway, I mean, I think as long as it's

53:50

, yeah, I mean by , yeah , it's not competition, but

53:53

I , but she always said to me, cuz I I was the same.

53:55

I was like, I , I try , you know, I went on a course, I

53:57

, I learned how I , yeah , I need to know I'm

53:59

a need to know person. Like take me through the steps, but

54:01

first few minutes is just not achievable for me. But

54:03

10 minutes is , or even sometimes I've

54:05

got the Insight Timer app . Three minutes. Two

54:08

minutes, great. Like in the car before you

54:10

get out, if I get to a meeting early, you know, I'm

54:12

sitting, a meeting gets canceled, I can

54:14

just sit quietly. I get to work really early,

54:16

I can sit for three minutes. Then before anyone comes in, tho

54:19

those smaller by size amounts

54:21

add up. And if you're feeling overwhelmed by

54:23

the big cake, just take a small piece rather

54:25

than, in fact three breaths,

54:29

a long breath in, followed by an even

54:31

longer breath out three times over has

54:33

been shown to calm people's nervous system. Yeah

54:35

. Wow . Crazy, right ? Yeah , yeah. And

54:38

everyone's got time for that. We're all breathing anyway. Come

54:40

on guys. What have you become better

54:42

at saying no to in the last five,

54:45

two years? Five years? Alcohol.

54:48

Oh, same <laugh> . I've

54:50

said no completely to alcohol for

54:53

the , for coming up for five years. And I have to

54:55

say that sobriety is, I

54:57

call it my superpower. It, it

55:00

gives me wings. It's alcohol for me is

55:02

the biggest distraction in life. You know, who

55:04

needs life is hard enough. Who needs the

55:07

added asset of having to be to, to

55:09

be sort of working through a close couple

55:11

of glasses of wine stage . You know, it's like,

55:13

doesn't take, I'm quite a sense to be , it doesn't

55:15

take very much to, to impact

55:17

my state negatively. A couple of glasses of wine

55:20

at night. I'm not gonna feel like getting up and doing the exercise

55:22

that we talked about in the morning, which is gonna keep me in

55:24

a great state. And so I cut it out all

55:26

together and you know, I mean I think

55:28

we all use kind of numbing techniques in one way

55:30

or another. My own , I'm absolutely not

55:32

perfect at all . And my next, the next one

55:35

that I'm going to have to say no , two is my iPhone

55:37

addiction. And so I'm working on that actively

55:39

right now. It's so tempting

55:42

to just kind of pick up and see what's

55:44

going on. What does that look like actively?

55:46

Are you, are you doing anything like putting it in another

55:48

room or airplane mode? Yeah , airplane

55:50

mode after a certain time at night in a different room,

55:53

not allowing myself to even touch

55:56

it. The moment I touch my iPhone, half

55:58

an hour's gone <laugh>, it's like a vortex.

56:01

A time stealing vortex. Even

56:03

if I only went on it to look at one very important

56:06

thing that I needed to look up. Oh, you know , I must

56:08

find out this , I go to look up some interesting information

56:10

before, you know , half an hour's gone, so

56:12

don't, I know even touch it

56:15

is my latest , uh, is this , I'm practicing

56:17

it. I'm not, I'm definitely not there with it. No

56:19

, I hear you loud and clear. Um , the other night I was like,

56:21

I've just gotta send this one WhatsApp to this person who I didn't

56:23

respond to A half an hour later I've watched

56:26

300 copy bar videos on Instagram. I mean, don't

56:28

get me wrong there , but great. But like no

56:30

, I could have been reading my book. Come on. That's

56:33

very true. Yeah, I think loud and clear on

56:35

that. I mean, if you could coach anybody, there's

56:38

a lot of world leaders out there that I'm sure need, need

56:40

a bit of coaching or , or a celebrity. I mean,

56:42

is there anybody that would be your ideal coaching

56:44

client? Charles third . He's

56:47

somebody who has purpose in his life, right?

56:49

And he was born to his purpose and yeah , he

56:51

looks so miserable and he just so

56:54

miserable. And I'd just love to help him find joy and

56:56

freedom in his being , you know, he can

56:59

maybe release some of his obvious trauma

57:01

and <laugh> to enjoying

57:03

his job. A lot of generational

57:06

trauma to pick Well

57:10

, yeah, I I love that you said him. I wasn't expecting that

57:12

at all. Prince Harry came off in a previous podcast

57:15

episode that I did cuz it was around the time of

57:17

the book coming out and you know, I know how scathing

57:19

people were about that book. I read it, I loved it, I

57:21

read it from cover to cover and, and for me, it wasn't

57:23

a book about hell all or gossip about

57:25

the family, although that was, you know, theme I guess you could say.

57:27

But it was all about the trauma, intergenerational

57:30

trauma and hey , and

57:33

you know, trying to heal from that, which I just found

57:35

it very powerful. But , um, maybe do

57:37

Harriet at the same time and then perhaps <laugh> , I'd

57:40

love to do that. You know, bringing, bring new people together

57:42

and holding space for different conversations is,

57:45

is one of the things that I do in the workplace. So , so

57:47

I think that would be it . But they might need a therapist

57:49

for that one. <laugh>. Yeah, I think

57:51

you a full team of many, many, many

57:53

people. But I mean, hey, let's put it out there . You know,

57:56

it's time in a year. You never know. Could you

57:58

tell me about, you've mentioned a couple of sort of people

58:00

that you've, you know , found really inspirational

58:03

like the ga lattes of this world and Eckhart

58:05

, are there any books that have really meant something to

58:07

you that have shaped how you live , that you give as gifts

58:09

maybe that you could tell us about? Pick a couple. Yeah,

58:12

that , so there's, there's one book actually I'll mentioned that, that

58:14

I really love for people that in leadership,

58:17

which is called the 15 Commitments

58:19

of Conscious Leadership. And

58:21

it's by a whole bunch of authors, Jim

58:24

Desler , Diana Chapman, and Kayleigh Warner cle

58:26

. And what I love about it

58:28

is , well there's those of great things about it actually. It's

58:30

how to live a more conscious life as a , as

58:33

a leader. But the fundamental

58:35

that it's based on is a model of the

58:37

world, which I have found

58:40

really transformational. It's the, the

58:42

one thing that if I think I could describe

58:44

making a big difference to the way I see the world, it

58:46

would be this. And just in a nutshell, it's this. So

58:48

that there are four different places from which we can

58:50

see and experience the world. The first of those

58:52

is to me . And so that's

58:54

when we are at the effect of life. Life

58:57

happens to us. And we all know people

58:59

who, most people actually live in this state

59:01

most of the time where circumstances

59:03

occur. And it's , it's the circumstances that

59:06

determine how we react to the world.

59:08

When you start state radical responsibility

59:10

for yourself and your and your life, it's the key

59:12

then to moving to the second way of seeing

59:14

the world, which is by me. And this is when we

59:16

kind of get in a conscious partnership with

59:19

life to create what

59:21

we want to happen. So, you know, we become conscious

59:23

creators and recognize that actually we

59:26

do have an impact on what happens that life happens for

59:28

us. We're very active participants in

59:30

making that four occur. So , so that's

59:32

the second when we begin to surrender, which

59:35

I think is the next thing we kind of talk about, you

59:37

know , giving up the control and driving, driving,

59:39

driving. Actually when we get to a place of surrender and

59:42

flow, then we can access the third state,

59:44

which is called through me . And

59:46

this is when we get really curious

59:48

about what is actually bigger than me and

59:51

what needs to be expressed through

59:53

me. That's why it's , it's called Through Me . So

59:55

looking, you know, what's the highest version of the world

59:58

that actually needs expressions through me ? So

1:00:00

you're becoming present to

1:00:02

what I call the field. It's the , it's

1:00:05

the broader space, it's the interconnections

1:00:07

between people and a more of an

1:00:09

energetic realm. We're

1:00:11

starting to get, you know , for , for people who are in a a

1:00:13

to me mentality is actually a state

1:00:15

of consciousness. It's very, very difficult to conceptualize

1:00:18

that we have to do, we have to kind of progress through these

1:00:20

to be able to experience what they, what they really are.

1:00:22

But the last one, very , very few of

1:00:24

us I think I've achieved is , but it's

1:00:27

access through oneness is called asme

1:00:29

and it's this sense of oneness. So actually there

1:00:31

is no me, we are

1:00:33

all one. We're totally interconnected

1:00:36

and it's this state of really expanded

1:00:39

consciousness that recognizes the

1:00:41

, um, the reality of

1:00:43

the world, which is that there is no

1:00:45

separation. And that , um,

1:00:48

the duality that we experience between ourselves

1:00:50

and others is in fact an illusion that

1:00:53

at certain , that a level of higher consciousness,

1:00:56

we're all one , it is all one and

1:00:58

we're all kind of energetic beings here are intimately

1:01:01

create , connected together. But of course, you know, I don't really talk

1:01:03

about this with leaders very often because , you know , most leaders and

1:01:05

organizations are , are , are working at the , the

1:01:08

two main moving to the by me . And sometimes they're

1:01:10

through me stages of kind of consciousness. And

1:01:12

so, you know, we work obviously with people

1:01:15

where they're at, but recognizing that you

1:01:17

, there are ways of expanding into something

1:01:19

that is more fulfilling and more meaningful and has

1:01:21

a greater impact on the , on the people around us in

1:01:24

the world . Amazing gosh , what sounds like a fantastic book

1:01:26

. Oh my made note of that one . Amazing . What

1:01:28

do you think is your greatest achievement , Kate? A

1:01:31

coach? It's really difficult

1:01:33

to be aware of our greatest achievements because

1:01:36

we work with people for a period of time and we see

1:01:38

the kind of breakthroughs that they have and we

1:01:40

know that something has shifted fundamentally.

1:01:43

But then often a what happens is that those people go off and

1:01:45

live their lives and we don't, we then get to

1:01:47

find out what happens next. You know, sometimes

1:01:49

we do. So like recently I had an email from

1:01:52

somebody I'd worked with 10 years ago and he said, I just got

1:01:54

tell you that that work that you , that we did together 10 years

1:01:56

ago had such a fundamental shift in me.

1:01:59

It had me be a developer of other

1:02:01

people. And you know, that's at

1:02:03

the core of my life now. And out of that I'm now, you

1:02:05

know, I'm now the CEO o of an organization and

1:02:07

I really prioritize other people's development.

1:02:09

In fact, I'm setting up this whole program that's

1:02:11

a transformational leadership program and it was all based

1:02:13

on the work that we did together. And it's just like, wow,

1:02:16

that was 10 years ago

1:02:18

and it was just such a, you know, a humbling

1:02:21

thing to know that this is small work that I

1:02:23

did with somebody , it had an impact on them that had been

1:02:25

rippled out into the world and now will have

1:02:27

an impact on all these other people that

1:02:29

will touch. And, you know, most of the time I don't

1:02:31

even know about those things. So I

1:02:33

hope that there are loads of great achievements out there

1:02:36

that are , that are kind of actualized through other

1:02:38

people and through the ripple effect of inspiring

1:02:40

people and to see things differently.

1:02:43

But, you know, the , I suppose the other thing I would

1:02:45

say is that I really believe that my greatest

1:02:47

achievement is yet to come. So one

1:02:49

of the, the things that I think will I , I hope will be

1:02:51

an achievement. And so I've started writing a book, it's

1:02:54

called The Quantum Leader. Well this is the working title

1:02:56

and the reason it's called the Quantum Leader is

1:02:58

because a quantum is the smallest discreet

1:03:01

possible unit of a phenomenon. So, you know, a a

1:03:03

quantum of light is a , is a photon. What

1:03:06

most leaders don't have , and we talked about this already is

1:03:08

time. And so, so the idea

1:03:10

behind the quantum leader is that it offers tools for

1:03:12

the biggest possible leap in

1:03:15

your energy and consciousness with the smallest

1:03:17

possible in input . So if you

1:03:19

like kind of bitesize transformation, and

1:03:21

I'm gonna be distilling all the sort of tools

1:03:24

and techniques for transformation for developing

1:03:26

leadership soul. But I've been working, you

1:03:28

know , with my clients on over the last 20 years into, into

1:03:30

this playbook. I'm gonna call it a playbook

1:03:33

cause actually it's about having some fun

1:03:35

as who work through some of these , these things. So I

1:03:37

hope that that will be, you know, creating a

1:03:39

body of work that , uh, that

1:03:42

that share is able to , that I'm able to share

1:03:44

with people , um, more widely. Gosh,

1:03:47

it sounds fantastic. I mean everything

1:03:49

that we've been , you've been , we've been talking about sort of,

1:03:51

you know, consciousness and energy and

1:03:53

soul and how that comes into business and

1:03:56

the corporate world. I just find personally

1:03:58

super inspiring makes me feel very hopeful. But

1:04:00

I also think, like you say, this is the direction the world

1:04:03

is moving. Maybe not always fast enough,

1:04:05

but it needs to move in. I mean to

1:04:07

have that in a book, which is be fantastic. So I mean what , once

1:04:09

you finish writing it, Kate <laugh>, let

1:04:12

me know, come on, tell us all about it. I'm

1:04:14

sure it won't take long <laugh> Well I'm putting it out there

1:04:16

as a commitment now I've told everybody that

1:04:18

this is what I'm , yeah, of course I actually have

1:04:20

to do it. Which is a wonderful technique for , for getting

1:04:22

oneself into action is make the commitment. Then

1:04:25

of course then you have to follow through on it. Of course I

1:04:27

have absolutely no doubt on you whatsoever. I have

1:04:29

hundred percent belief . So , um, yeah, fantastic.

1:04:32

And thank you so much for our conversation. I thought it was

1:04:34

absolutely fantastic. So interesting, very

1:04:36

uplifting and lots of practical tips

1:04:38

as well, which I really appreciate and I know that my listeners

1:04:41

do as well cause people wanna take something away that they can

1:04:43

actually take and , and use in their own life as well. So

1:04:45

thank you so much for that. Super . It's been a , a

1:04:47

pleasure to chat with you Kelly , thank you very much for inviting

1:04:49

me into this conversation.

1:04:51

Thanks so much for listening to the Good Intentions

1:04:54

podcast. You can find links

1:04:56

to issues and to books that we discussed in

1:04:58

the show notes. And you can look for the podcast on

1:05:00

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1:05:03

. Please do make sure you subscribe to the

1:05:05

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1:05:07

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