0:02

Welcome to Good Intentions, the podcast where we explore the world around us define meaning and intention in what we do.

0:09

I'm Kelly Harvard and I'm on a mission to spread positive stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful and connected life.

0:17

My guest this week is Dennis Lee and Murphy, both of the incredible new book, the Blame Game.

0:23

I spent a weekend reading this book and as I read it, a thousand light bulbs went offed my head.

0:28

It will honestly take everything you thought you knew and blow it to pieces.

0:32

How would you react to someone if they said the reason you feel unhappy, anxious, or lost is because you blame too much.

0:38

You might, as I did initially, think, no wake, can this be me?

0:42

But the fact is, blames interwoven into the very fabric of our language society and philosophical outlooks is present in just about every conversation we have.

0:51

In fact, blames become more than just a game.

0:53

It's an addiction and that's what Dennis's new block uncovers.

0:58

Denis is a high performance coach, visionary thinker and founding partner of Roundtable Global, an internationally recognized learning and development company that helps create high performance leaders and corporate cultural change.

1:09

Over a decade ago, he had a life changing realization.

1:13

We have not only inherited an addiction to playing the blame game, but when we blame, we automatically become a victim.

1:19

These realizations led him to come up with a hypothesis.

1:22

The more self honest we are, the less we blame and the more effortless and painless life becomes.

1:28

He offers a truly unique and unparalleled personal development and healing experience by specializing in helping people recover from a blame addiction they didn't know they had.

1:36

Dennis says, for thousands of years we've had a masterclass in blaming it's time for a masterclass in self-healing.

1:43

Our meant to that. I love the conversation we had about blame during which Dennis challenged a lot of long-held opinions of mine with truly insightful solutions and answers.

1:51

I hope you enjoyed our conversation. Thanks so much for joining us today.

1:55

Dennis, I've been so thrilled to get to speak to you.

1:57

Ah, it's pleasure. I'm looking forward to it.

1:59

My first question is really, you have so many different hats and you know, I spent my weekend reading this, which is Luke can see I've got well notes inside it.

2:06

So you know you're a coach, which is how I first got to know about you.

2:09

You're also a healer. I mean now you're an author, which, you know, Maru on having a book published, it must feel amazing.

2:15

Can you tell us a bit more about this book, which is called The Blame Game?

2:18

I'm sure you can't put it into a nutshell, but can you just tell us a quick summary of what it stands for and what it's trying to get across?

2:23

Yeah, it's actually funny as well when you read it like that, what, what my hats are and then one of them's author.

2:29

It's quite strange because it was never a goal of mine even though I've been writing this book for 10 years and uh, pretty much every day I wrote, but the goal was never to become an author.

2:39

It was always to impart whatever wisdom I was gathering on my journey around the world.

2:44

And I think that's what actually gave me the energy.

2:47

And I never got writer's block because my goal wasn't to be an author and it's only since I've been interviewed more and more that I think about these things.

2:55

Yeah. So it just seems, maybe that's a hint for anyone out there that wants to write a book.

3:00

If you put the extra pressure on yourself to be the author, it changes the writing process and you suddenly there's more pressure.

3:08

But I suppose that's a bit of a tangent. The actual book that I landed up writing was a realization I had about, let's say 13, 14 years ago.

3:16

And I'd already been on that massive journey around the world.

3:20

You know, I think, I dunno if you know, but I sold my house, I sold my car, I sold everything and off I went cuz I knew I needed healing and I did everything right based on what all the experts were saying and I had money.

3:32

So if uh, shaman said to me, come and spend a week with me in Oregon on in a ha you know, in a heart, then I did that.

3:39

I'd go to the Amazon, I'd go to a neuroscience conference, I would go just with if you said you had a crystal that would heal me.

3:47

I'm like, I'm all in.

3:49

That's great.

3:50

Yeah. And I was just really open to trying everything.

3:54

And then it was just that at the end of that journey I kind of had to say anger, the same frustration, the same issues in my life, but I'd learned so many ways of covering it up so many ways of controlling it but not actually healing.

4:08

And that's when I started to question everything.

4:10

And the one thing that became really obvious that no one in the world was addressing was blame.

4:15

And it basically, once I unpacked it, I saw that it became the foundation of everything.

4:21

The reason I'm angry, the reason I'm upset, the reason why I think the world is against me is because I'm blaming the world for something going wrong and I'm blaming myself for doing things wrong.

4:32

And basically every expert out there is confirming that without knowing it.

4:36

And so that's what the book's about.

4:39

It's an introduction into that realization that everyone on the planet is unknowingly addicted to blame.

4:46

And because it's such a mature addiction that's been going on for thousands of years, no one knows they're doing it.

4:52

So no one understands the impact it's having on us.

4:56

We just think, oh, it's this, this word that we will know about and we've accepted it as part of our lives.

5:02

But it isn't, there's a, there is a way of living without blame.

5:05

If I don't blame you and I don't blame myself, there is a third alternative.

5:09

And that's what the book really unpacks that third on alternative.

5:13

Yeah, and I think this is so interesting that you say like people don't realize they're doing it.

5:17

Cuz I'll be honest with you, I started reading it, I was like, gosh, this sounds absolutely fascinating.

5:21

We were like, I don't think I do this<laugh>.

5:23

I'm sure people say this to you, right? I was like, yeah,

5:25

All the time.

5:27

Is that fascinating? But I'm sure this doesn't apply to me.

5:29

And then I yeah, I was like, uh, OK Kelly.

5:32

Yeah, it totally does. Um, but I mean, talk us through mean how many of our issues can be caused by blame that we don't even realize?

5:39

I mean how is this like manifesting and showing up Ross in our lives?

5:42

Again, as you make your way through the book, you'll realize it's every issue.

5:46

The reason I'm not getting on with my mum, my dad, my brother, my sister, the reason I don't like myself, the reason I feel like I might have imposter syndrome or the reason why I, I feel like I'm being bullied.

5:59

The reason why life isn't effortless for me, it all has a foundation in thinking that the world or something is going wrong.

6:07

So if you think like that, now you are stressed, now you've got physical tension.

6:13

So that's why mental, physical and emotional abuse is skyrocketing at the moment because we have always, we are always in that mindset that something's going wrong and we've gotta try and fix it.

6:25

That life is way too multicultural, subjective, multidimensional to be put into such rigid boxes of good and bad, positive and negative.

6:33

Every situation is open to perspective.

6:37

And it was just that understanding that because we see the world like that, so naturally you're always stressed physically and emotionally.

6:46

So I am known for helping people recover from impossible physical condition because I understand that process.

6:53

Once the blame recovery process is started, your body and mind just starts to relax and now your body does what it naturally is designed to do, which is self-heal.

7:04

But the biggest issue we've all had is that we've accepted the biggest myth that we've ever been told, which is that the brain and the body and the mind is doing something wrong.

7:13

It's, it needs fixing and it doesn't. That's just someone who's come up with that is addicted to blame and they don't realize it.

7:20

So that's why they look at the blame, they don't understand it and immediately it's right, right, we've gotta fix it but there's nothing that needs fixing.

7:28

So that creates an extra layer of tension when you're trying to fix something that doesn't need fixing.

7:33

You just gotta get better at listening to it and understanding it.

7:35

Yeah. So how can we sort of start listening and pointing?

7:39

I mean there's some situations and some examples that you gave which I think are kind of easier to get your head around.

7:43

You know, like I don't get hold of my mom and like maybe I blame her for something or my husband, I blame him for something.

7:48

But how can we start to look at areas where we might, this might be playing a big part in our lives without us realizing, I mean work for example, I thought might be an interesting one and but you tell me you know, where, where typical areas where this is playing a part and like how does it manifest and how can we try and sort of navigate away from it if that's not too simple to

8:07

Question. No, not at all. But it's interesting as well because most people have that work and that home life, not everyone works, but most people have that separation and we often think that they are separated so someone might be able to go to work and not be stressed.

8:22

They've learned how to control their emotions, they've been told that they've got high emotional intelligence, which basically means you've learned to be self resilient and control your honest emotion.

8:33

But because that's unsustainable at on the drive home or when you get home, your honesty just comes to and you feel safe to scream in your car cuz no one's looking or you feel safe to scream at your partner or have passive aggressive conversations with your partner cuz you couldn't do it at work cuz the repercussions seemed more extreme, you could lose your livelihood.

8:55

So that's what I mean when people aren't healing, what they're doing is they're learning how to get better at control but at some point the lid comes off and the honesty comes out.

9:06

So the main thing that we've gotta get better at is learning a brand new skill, which is being self honest and that then applies to every aspect of your lives.

9:16

And that's what we're not good at because we've got a, a culture of hyper fake positivity where you are being told all day to be resilient, to be tolerant, to be uh, giving for, it's all teaching you how to be fake because it's not, you're just covering up your honest emotion.

9:36

So it can be quite challenging then to actually get access to that stuff that you've spent a lifetime trying to hide from and give a fake persona.

9:47

And that's why it can be a, an interesting journey that I take people on because it's the first time they get to meet themselves and sometimes that can be quite ugly.

9:58

It's like going to a mirror at home and it's, it hasn't got great lighting and you know, overnight you look you've aged 10 years or you know, you just suddenly you don't like yourself And that's why we will not go to that mirror.

10:12

We go to the mirror with the great lighting cuz it shines back off the bits we like.

10:18

Well that's just a simple analogy for life.

10:20

We repel from people that reflect back our honesty, the bits we don't like about ourselves.

10:26

So that's why it's so easy to blame someone and get rid of them now your life and then be attracted to people that are reflecting back the bits you like about yourself.

10:34

And that creates more tension than we realize and suddenly that's why so many people grow old and they're alone cause they've basically got rid of all the mirrors in their life as opposed to engaging with them and self-reflecting and getting self honest.

10:50

Oh yeah, that's very powerful. So as you become self honest, isn't self honesty, it sounds a little bit to me like it's blaming yourself as well then.

10:58

Yeah. So how do you become honest without being like okay, yeah actually this was all of me.

11:02

Like what's the difference between those?

11:04

Why? That's a great question as well. Cause it's a really important question especially cause I have a leadership, um, company called Roundtable Global and I run leadership programs um, for a very large organization.

11:14

And what's very common in the leadership world right now is a lot of people know about blame and they talk about it in a way well just stop blame and start taking more personal responsibility for your life.

11:27

Extreme ownership,

11:28

Extreme ownership. And that sounds empowering for a little while until you realize it's just another way of blaming yourself.

11:36

So as a leader you are now not allowed to blame your employees cuz that's wrong in their eyes.

11:43

So now you've put all that you are doubling up on your blame cuz you're still blaming them.

11:47

You can't stop that in that way and that's why there's so many shoulder tension, so much neck issues because your least you putting the weight of the world on your shoulders now and using it to beat yourself up.

11:59

So I don't subscribe to that extreme ownership, I don't subscribe to that, just that phrase.

12:05

I'll take personal responsibility cuz it's infused with self blame like you pointed out.

12:09

But that's why I equated this to being like an addiction because if you said to an alcoholic, can you imagine a life without alcohol?

12:18

They would say no, of course not. I need alcohol to live.

12:22

It's my coping mechanism. Well that's the same as blame.

12:27

You can't imagine a life without it because you don't know you've been addicted to it for thousands of years.

12:32

So it's like, if I can't blame you and I can't blame myself, what's left?

12:37

And so even when I talk about self honesty, it's, it can seem like it's fuel to blame yourself, but then that part of the blame recovery process is self honesty is a lot more detailed than that.

12:49

I know it's most basic level it is, I'm angry with you but I'm gonna lie to you and tell you I'm not.

12:57

That in itself is you being dishonest with yourself and everyone else.

13:03

So I'm not saying you need to be honest with other people yet we've gotta get better at being honest with ourselves first before we start even venturing into telling people what we think about them.

13:15

Because normally that's like, that just turns into, well it's not a nice phrase, but it's like blame diarrhea and this disguised as um, honesty, I'm only being honest with you but, and then all the blame comes out.

13:29

So I'm not an advocate of that. The self honesty stage one is you are not happy, you're upset, you are angry, you are blaming people in your life, you've gotta get access to that first and then you go onto the other part which is I helping you learn how to really listen to yourself, not meditate, but listen to yourself with a hundred percent focus.

13:51

And that's our whole process in itself. Minute,

13:54

Gosh, I've got so many more questions based on what you just said.

13:57

This self honesty sounds like it's, I mean it's truly life changing.

14:00

I mean I assume that once you start working with people, their lives can radically change and we talk, I mean that this must be terrifying, empowering, brilliant, awful all at once.

14:10

I mean, how, how does that work with people? How do you guide them through that and what is that process like?

14:14

What does it feel like?

14:16

You, you've nailed it in terms of all the emotions that come to the surface and even in the book I say a lot of my clients in the early stages of like dears in headlights because they're looking at me going, what are you saying?

14:29

I kind of get it on some deep, deep level.

14:31

I know there's some truth in what you're saying, but it's so counterintuitive to everything I've ever learned.

14:39

But like you said, once you get that, once you start practicing the skill of being self honest, your life changes in profound ways.

14:48

And that's what I constantly hear from my clients and it, it sometimes it takes all different times, timeframes to get there, but every time I hear at some point I now get what you mean by being self honest and how profound it is and how my relationships have fundamentally changed how my health has changed, how everything in my life has become more effortless.

15:09

But yeah, it takes practice.

15:12

You're learning a brand new skill even though it sounds like you are not because a lot of my clients say to me, I am being honest, I am.

15:19

But what they don't realize is, no, you're blaming.

15:23

And a lot of the time they even have lots of self blame that they don't even realize that they're covering up.

15:30

And so it's more in depth than just saying you need to get more self honest.

15:34

Of course it is. But yes, it's terrifying.

15:38

You're right because you're getting access to what we said earlier, that part of you that you've been trying to get rid of cuz you think it's bad, you've been told you are self sabotaging yourself.

15:47

You've been told you've got limiting beliefs, you've been told you've got destructive patterns running through you.

15:53

That's all blame and it doesn't exist.

15:56

But that's how we've been trained to see and that's the counterintuitive part.

16:01

And I can share a client example with you that will illustrate all of that if you want.

16:05

And it was with uh, an entrepreneur who basically pitched for two clients and that's where I got her to, I got her to that point and with one of them, she got no problem in the middle of the pitch, the client said, I'm booking the next client.

16:22

It was a struggle, it was hard work in the in in the pitch and she didn't get it.

16:27

And then she comes to me saying, I'm gutted, I got one but I didn't get the other one.

16:32

I think I've got self-limiting belief. I think I self-sabotaged myself.

16:36

I ha I've got this pattern and I think I'm, I think I've lost my mojo, I'm not very good at pitching and all of that self blame just filled the air and I let her know that that was all a lie.

16:49

All your training has taught you to think like that.

16:52

Well in fact I know you didn't want to work with that client.

16:56

This is another level of self honesty.

16:58

And she's like, yeah I did. I really did. I really, really did then.

17:02

And I have this conversation all the time with my client cuz we're used to lying to ourselves.

17:07

So we don't know. In the end I got her to the point where she's self-reflected in that state of honesty.

17:15

And she said, if I'm gonna be honest, halfway through the the pitch they said something that made me not wanna work with that type of client.

17:23

And I said that's it. So it wasn't self-limiting, no self-sabotaging.

17:28

The honesty was you didn't wanna work with that client so you actually pitched perfectly to not get that client.

17:35

And that's the same with the other side.

17:38

You pitch perfectly to get the client cuz that's what you wanted.

17:41

The only reason you were lying to yourself is that you needed the client's money but you didn't wanna work with them.

17:49

And that's a massive difference and why so many people go through job interviews and they get upset cuz they think they wanted the job when in fact all they wanted was the money or the adulation for working with that top company but the actual job they didn't want.

18:04

And that challenging for a lot of people to get to that level.

18:10

Well yeah and I think it's, it's challenging for the world that we're set up in, right?

18:13

We we're set up in this, you know, very consumerist capitalist society where you have to go to work to get the money to buy the things that we're told we need to live.

18:23

So you need to in this endless cycle that we're in.

18:25

Whereas, and I've asked this question of quite a lot of people actually that I've interviewed and there's a whole tro of people now trying to sort of understand finding purpose and meaning, not just as like some trope but actually find some meaning in their lives and you know, realizing that perhaps they're not gonna get that from a sort of corporate nine to five or eight to eight whatever it is that we work in Dubai.

18:42

So how do you align this sort of deep, deep, not desperate but deep drive to find some meaning in your life whilst also being in this very consumerist capitalist society whilst not blaming yourself whilst finding authenticity.

18:52

Like how do we navigate our way through this when it's the whole system is almost set up against us?

18:57

You know, um, at the beginning of the book I dedicated a whole page to a quote that I came up with, I dunno if you remember it, but it says life is a paradox of infinite complexity, a magical simplicity.

19:13

So I came up with that when I started to really understand the power of recovering from your blame addiction because the world is so complex and even the question you asked me, you can feel the tension behind it cuz it's so complex.

19:25

How do I do this? How do I find meaning? What do I do?

19:28

How do I do it? And it's actually really simple life when you realize everything's here to help you on your journey to find out who you are.

19:39

But that again is very counterintuitive to the way we've been trained over the life that you know, many thousands of years, especially in this lifetime.

19:47

So we land up blaming consumerism and we land up blaming social media for why I'm not productive.

19:53

We blame anything and anyone we can because that's like an alcoholic hiding drinks everywhere around the house because they need a drink whenever they can.

20:04

So we are looking for blame hits all the time when in reality we've got this situation playing out where if we work at the very foundational level, it's like growing things.

20:15

If you work at quality soil, the produce that comes from it is that much more healthy.

20:20

But we're, we are not working at our that soil level, that foundational level that makes everything else so much more simple.

20:27

We are working on all the individual complex paths and if we don't build a strong foundation like the birds Khalifa, if you don't build a strong foundation that's not gonna stand up that building.

20:39

So we intellectually understand that, but we, when it comes to self-help and healing, we are not working at the foundational level, we're working at the superficial level and we keep trying to control as opposed to heal.

20:52

So with all of that question, where do we start?

20:56

We gotta get back into being able to listen to our body and I can go into a whole area of our imagination and I take my clients through a process of reintroducing them to their imagination.

21:10

Because if I said to you, what's the difference between visualization and imagination, what would you say?

21:17

Rosh I think is, does imagination have some feeling attached to it?

21:20

I don't know.

21:20

Well isn't it interesting that everyone I ask no one's got an answer.

21:25

Some people might even say to me, what's the difference?

21:28

Aren't they the same thing? But they're fundamentally different.

21:32

And what we have got used to, because we've almost become addicted to control and self-control, that's why we love visualization because it's dependent on control.

21:43

So that's why you are an athlete and you can visualize the ball going in the net loads of times and you can really help.

21:50

You're an entrepreneur and you're visualizing loads of money coming to you and all of those techniques can really work, but they're not sustainable and they don't actually help you heal and live an effortless life because visualization takes a lot of energy to maintain.

22:05

But imagination is dependent on there being no control.

22:10

And that's why when you go to sleep at night, you dream weird and wonderful things because you're not trying to control it.

22:16

So you get access to so much more information.

22:20

Well if you can do that in the day and practice your imagination, you're actually in the playground of living a life where there's no control.

22:27

Can you imagine living a life where there's no control when you're being told you've gotta control everything?

22:33

I really want to, Dennis, I really want to<laugh>

22:37

And that's it. It's like what would happen if I didn't control my life my day?

22:43

And that terrifies people because they say things like, I feel like I'm out of control.

22:48

But isn't it interesting, how do you describe nature when it's flourishing?

22:54

You might describe it as out of control.

22:57

Yeah, just, just, yeah, just a beautiful doing whatever it wants.

23:00

Right When it wants not.

23:02

Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. So what I realize is actually I'm part of nature and nature flourishes effortlessly when there's no blame or control, it just flourishes so quickly, so effortlessly.

23:13

So then organizations, families, individuals, have the same potential to flourish effortlessly when they're not trying to control and there's no blame.

23:23

That's what nature does. So it's actually very intuitive what I'm offering and it's counterintuitive.

23:30

They're trying to blame things for going wrong and to control.

23:35

So it's just a completely different way of looking at life.

23:39

But it's actually the one that's most in alignment with nature.

23:42

Well,

23:42

I mean look, look what you're saying makes perfect sense and you know, I, I completely 100% get it and I think a bit of my head just exploded as we were going through the nature, the nature part.

23:51

Oh gosh, now I'm gonna, now I'm gonna blame somebody or blame something.

23:54

But you know, as you know, if you, if you have a full-time job, if you are perhaps like a working parent, like your, your life is a military operation, you know, there has to be from the moment you get up because you've got so many, there's so many jigsaw pieces and cogs that have to, you know, function for everybody else to function for your life to function.

24:10

But is this all just a huge lie that we are telling ourselves

24:13

<laugh> again, isn't it?

24:15

It's fascinating. It really is. Look at nature again, let's go into a jungle in our head.

24:20

Whether you've been in a forest, a jungle, just put yourself there for a moment and isn't that one of the most complex environments ever, right?

24:28

If you really get a micro soap and look deeply in or if you look at the canopy, it's so complex.

24:35

How does that whole thing work effortlessly together to flourish in out of control ways?

24:42

How does it all do that? So maybe that's the message, isn't it that us thinking we need to control something cause we think it will be wrong.

24:51

There's no part of the tree that's looking around this environment going, what the ants are doing is wrong.

24:56

What the wolf is doing is wrong. The rain that came in and wiped out so much isn't doing anything wrong, they kiss, adapt and they flourish as a result of that because there is no blame.

25:09

So when you talk about as well previously about finding purpose, we, we find it harder and harder to find purpose the more we don't know ourselves.

25:18

So again, if you go back on the fake positivity movement and everything's gotta be positive, you've always gotta be calm.

25:25

This isn't real, this is all an illusion.

25:29

So all the time you're trying to be that fake version of what you think you should be.

25:34

How can you find purpose when you don't even know yourself?

25:37

So everyone has it the other way around. They try and find purpose before they know who they are.

25:42

So I've found purpose because at some point I realized, oh it's all about me.

25:48

I'm the one that's gotta heal to have the biggest impact on my environment.

25:52

And because I did that and I focused an enormous amount of energy and effort, resources into uncovering and recovering from my blame addiction, I found purpose pretty easy pretty quickly.

26:06

But I didn't do any of the techniques to find my purpose.

26:10

I realize my purpose on the journey, but I didn't try and find it.

26:16

And I think that's the illusion as well that we're under when I work with clients and they're like, but I don't know what to do.

26:22

I don't know my purpose or meaning and I've read Victor Franco and I know it's important and I know I should love what I do.

26:29

And he's like, but I don't know what to do. I dunno how to do that.

26:33

It's because very few people are prepared to do the healing work that's required for you to find your purpose.

26:41

And that's where the focus needs to be, be a

26:43

Huge step isn't it? Dennis can we'll just come back to something that you mentioned at the beginning.

26:46

So what started you on this?

26:48

I mean selling your house, your car is pretty radical to go off on and heal yourself.

26:53

What, what made you do that?

26:54

Yeah, and I got a lot of pushback from friends and family because it's like, what are you doing your think I was 36 at the time or and it was like, that's your retirement money.

27:03

You should be set. You know, you're old now, you're 36, you should be thinking about the future.

27:09

And to be honest with you, I haven't got a clear answer for you in regards to when I was an op op in the operations room and I was an operations manager in London and now I got fired from my job of course back then.

27:23

That's terrible, it's wrong, it's bad, it's negative, I messed up.

27:27

But within a short period of time I became a personal trainer.

27:31

So at the age of 31 in theory I'd gone back in life and I didn't have the mindset I have today, but I'm just going with it.

27:40

But I don't know what's driving that apart from a deep unknowing at that moment that I need to heal.

27:47

And it wasn't until I got into exercise nutrition and sports massage and physical rehabilitation that I started to realize the most important thing we need to learn about is the thing we take everywhere with us.

27:59

And I realized how much I didn't know about my mind, body, and spirit.

28:04

And that obviously then said a lot that resonated with me a lot.

28:09

And that's when I would go around the world learning all I could about exercise and nutrition, rehabilitation.

28:15

But then I had an experience, a beautiful synchronistic story of meeting a friend in Miami while I was on a chiropractic course and it was that that she took me to an energy healing course that was going on in Miami at the same time and that's when my mind just opened up.

28:33

I was so resistant. Everything she was telling me and everything the guy was telling me was rubbish.

28:38

I couldn't handle it. It was just bringing up all my blame and all my defenses.

28:43

And it wasn't until a year later when, cuz we had a relationship then that I started to sign open up and I would've told you how open I was.

28:55

But it was those experiences that made me realize how closed-minded I was and how angry, frustrated, and how full of blame I was.

29:04

But again, I couldn't articulate it so it just felt like it was important.

29:10

But I can't tell you what really, there wasn't like a, a moment in time that I'm like, oh I gotta sell everything.

29:18

I was literally, I had, I'd sold everything and then I'm sleeping on my mate's couch for like five months, but I could buy another house straight away.

29:27

I made good money from that sale but I'm like, I'm so lost, I have no idea what to do.

29:35

And it wasn't until I went on that course and met that lady that everything changed

29:39

Springboarded and, and how long were you sort of out of conventional life or how long did you go on this sort of journey?

29:45

I would say since the age of 36.

29:48

So I'm 50 now. So I would say all of that time I have not lived a conventional life.

29:54

I've been either a digital nomad with bits l you know, living in London for three years.

30:00

But apart from that I've been a digital nomad for that whole time.

30:03

Wow. Gosh, amazing. Incredible.

30:06

How does it feel to be based here in Dubai now as a, as a result of it?

30:09

Yeah, it feels great. I still feel like I'm that digital nomad, but it does, I have for the first time in all of that time felt like I've committed to a place for a whole year.

30:19

So I feel like I've now got a base which is different and it feels good.

30:24

I, I feel like that's what I've needed and and again maybe unconsciously I've known I've needed it because of the promotion of the book Cause I spent so many years writing and being creative now I need some form of solid base to be able to start the promotional side and so I think I'm just at a different stage of my life and require different things.

30:44

Yeah, well the right place I'm sure. Yeah. Just coming back to blame, I just wanted to ask you about the whole gendered part of it because I feel, and I can't speak for every woman obviously, but I can speak for a lot of the women that I know and for myself and like women seem exceptionally good at self-blaming for whatever reason.

30:58

I mean is there something that you encounter, is that true that when you see clients, when you see people and from the research for your book or is it equal?

31:04

Short answer is it's equal. The big, big, big difference is men have been taught to be better at control because of the stoic influence that we've had for thousands of years.

31:15

Which is just, you know, be a man stiff up a lip, don't complain, just get on with it.

31:22

That's what's pervasive in our leadership world as well.

31:26

And again, it's not that it's a bad thing at all.

31:30

It's great if you are in the middle of a war then or you are fighting, you're a soldier, you are a policeman or something.

31:36

Maybe there's an argument that you need to be able to really control that fear.

31:41

But what happens, why do so many of these very people that advocate that then get P T S D and get all these other mental issues because it's not sustainable.

31:52

And so no there isn't a gender difference.

31:54

It literally is the masculine feminine side of us.

31:57

The masculine side is all about self-control.

32:00

The feminine side is all about expression and so it both addicted just deliver it in a different way.

32:07

But the with the guide, the self-deprecating thoughts of how they look and how they think are the same as the women

32:13

Really. I found that fascinating. Yeah. Oh interesting.

32:16

For

32:17

Sure. They just lurk. I hide

32:18

It. Yeah, that that is interesting cause there's the, that great piece of research which um, Cheryll Sandberg mentions about the job interview where you know, you, oh the job application, you show the job spec to a guy and you show the job spec to a woman and the woman's like, I dunno.

32:31

And the guy's like, yeah, I can do it. So it's this whole kind of like confidence thing I thought might have been different but that was really interesting to know.

32:37

But

32:38

Again, I just, I would say that there would be women that are, have got access to their masculine side that would respond in the same way.

32:46

They would be like, yeah, I've got this, put me in a boardroom and I'm good to go.

32:51

But, and then you've got a feminine man that would be the same.

32:55

It's like oh I dunno if I could be in a boardroom. So it's, again, it's not necessarily gender, it's more that feminine and masculine side of us and that's why I feel like it's more significant to help people understand we're all the same really.

33:10

Um, and not, not in terms of the biological side or the man woman, but in, when it gets to that level it's the way we've been trained for thousands of years how to act as men and women.

33:21

Yeah. Very difficult to shake that off. So what, when people come to you, I mean what's the sort of major, do you see some sort of consistent patterns?

33:28

Like when do they come to you at a breaking point? Do they come to you with a certain challenge or a certain, you know, something they just get, can't get past?

33:34

Is there something sort of typical that people come to you and then you unpick all these issues and look at the blame side of it?

33:39

Yeah, so basically most people come to me when they're mentally emotionally and physically exhausted.

33:45

They've tried so many other things, not realizing all of those other things have helped them to control and survive another day, another week.

33:52

And for whatever reason they will then find me because I'm not offering any control tools or techniques.

33:58

I'm not offering anything but profound self-healing.

34:02

So that's the bit that cuz I recognize that I was there, I was exhausted after doing everything right.

34:10

So that's, so yes, I'm getting people at the end of their journey and they've lo they've lost all sense of what healing means and where what they can achieve and not achieve.

34:20

And so that will then show up as maybe autoimmune disease.

34:24

It could show up with chronic back pain or shoulder pain.

34:28

And then they're surprised at how quickly those things can disappear just because they've worked on the blame path of their life.

34:36

Their jobs aren't going well, they're being bullied by their boss or they can't conceive and then all those things change suddenly they, they got, they get pregnant some suddenly the boss changes, suddenly they get a new job that they've been looking for, that they've always wanted.

34:51

It's because the byproduct of the blame process is you get to know who you honestly are and your fear level go down, then what?

34:58

Less blame, less fear. And so now uh, this honest confidence feels you that you're not used to but it leads to profound differences in all of your ecosystems that you are part of.

35:09

So yeah, I think I've held pretty much everyone with everything at some point during my 15 years cuz all the, the foundation is always the same.

35:18

And I mean you mentioned the word exhausting or people come to you when they're exhausted.

35:22

It sounds, I mean it isn't what you do quite exhausting as well.

35:25

I mean it sort of constantly, you know, having to lead and advise and unpick and heal.

35:29

I mean how do you stay energized and motivated and how do you not fall into that trap of just letting the whole process exhaust you as well?

35:37

One, because I have found my purpose so I'm not faking it when I say I love what I do and it doesn't feel like work.

35:46

It's genuine, it's real. I love facilitating leadership programs.

35:49

I love one-on-one coaching. Everything I do I love to do and as soon as I feel like I'm not enjoying it anymore, I change.

35:57

But I'm always making those decisions based on after I've done the healing process that I take my clients through.

36:04

So is it exhausting? No. If I don't beat or sleep or look after myself then it's exhausting like any other job.

36:11

But the actual work I'm doing, no.

36:14

I also know that as part of my coaching practice, I don't believe in psychology.

36:20

So because I feel like psychology and therapy in that way is feeding the blame addiction.

36:25

So when you go and see someone and they share their victim story, their blame based story again and again and again and again, it's just instilling the blame.

36:36

It was their fault. It was my fault.

36:39

So because I don't engage with that, I'm not listening to people's victim stories all day, that would be exhausting cuz my job is to help them outta that victim cycle as opposed to enforcing that what they went through was bad, negative or wrong.

36:54

And that again, that's why I get results very quickly a lot of the time is because it's the first time ever someone has stopped them mid flow in their story and said, I'm not listening.

37:05

And I say it in a nice way to then be able to say to them, okay, well their focus here as opposed to you getting used to telling your sane victim story.

37:15

And I disrupt that pattern in that way because it's all blame and that means it's not exhausting for me.

37:22

And I also know you can't drain my energy.

37:25

That's also another myth that there's such things as Vic, you know, energy vampires, there's no such thing.

37:31

I love this in the book after this in the book because this is, I mean I work in PR and we talk about this a lot, a lot, we talk a lot about energy because I think it's just part of what we do and and how we sort of motivate ourselves rightly or wrongly.

37:42

And then we often talk about energy vampires.

37:45

It's uh, it really made me laugh when I was reading that in the book, not laugh as in yeah, wasn't being derisive by I get it, I recognized it in myself.

37:51

Tell us a bit more about that. Why don't they exist?

37:53

Well first of all, it's play. You drained my energy.

37:57

So in a very simple way that's when I started and then I saw book titles with energy vampire on it.

38:03

And all so many stories are around be get away from negative people.

38:07

They, you know, you've gotta be around people that are positive and it's all the same narrative.

38:12

But when you actually think about it and what's an example?

38:15

Have you ever looked at your phone, seen a number, and literally gone, oh it's them and you dreamed, but they're not even in the room.

38:25

So who drains your energy? Right?

38:27

You get an email from a client and it's like, oh, you get an email from another client and you're like, oh this is amazing.

38:33

I love this client. But who's actually the one feeding that, that emotional that from just an email or just the text message?

38:42

So it's you, it's you and your perception.

38:45

If you like the person, you drain your own energy.

38:49

If you don't like the person, you give yourself energy.

38:52

And that's the same as you could be at a dinner party.

38:55

And let's say you are talking to someone and you think they're negative, you think they're boring, but five minutes later they're over there talking to other people, laughing and joking.

39:06

So they're probably say, oh they're amazing, they're exciting, they're full of joy, they're positive.

39:12

So again, it's the same person, but the difference was you and that what people don't, again, all roads lead back to you.

39:22

It's not them. And of course I hear loads of stories of, yeah but Dennis, they did this and they did that and Vicky, let me tell you what really happened.

39:32

And I'm like, I get it. But it's still you and your lens, you and your perception that will, you know, determine how you respond and how you feel and how you behave.

39:42

Yeah. But Dennis<laugh>,

39:47

I like

39:48

I say, say it's, but Dennis, so I get, I do not, I do get the whole, you know, it's how you respond, not react and it's, it's within you to take that pause and then if you are sort of getting a relentless level of stress or negativity or whatever, if it's relentless and consistent from, I don't know, certain people, certain organizations, certain situation, uh, for how long are you expected or how, how are you supposed to sort of dig deep and find the energy to be so pragmatic about everything and not blame, sort of bat it away and have this beja already.

40:19

I mean how can we do it in the such an smo?

40:21

Sorry, I had to get that out.

40:23

Yeah, it's, it's a great question. What you've unknowingly just described is stoicism, how can I protect myself from the bad negative world around me?

40:33

That's it. That's the masculine approach to life.

40:37

The feminine approach to life is, if you take it to its extreme is the self-reflection is the thinking about staff.

40:45

He's working stuff out and it's the mother nature side of us.

40:48

It's the let's just find the solution as opposed to try and find what to blame before we find the solution.

40:54

We don't need to protect ourselves, we just need to adapt and work out creative solution.

41:00

So that's what, so you've described it perfectly to say that's what even emotional intelligence and psychology is teaching us.

41:08

Here's some tools and techniques to protect yourself.

41:12

But I don't do any of that because I don't think there's anything to protect myself from.

41:18

So if someone is coming to me and they, and I'm getting a certain feel from them or if they're being horrible to me in my perception, I know that that's a reflection of how I'm honestly feeling.

41:32

And when I do the blame recovery and I do the healing that I ask my clients to do, two things can happen.

41:38

It can keep it really simple. One, they do change.

41:42

So my boss has been bullying me. I have clients that go back into the office and now their boss completely treats them differently.

41:50

Everyone else is still getting the same behavior. But my client, because there's no blame towards the boss, the boss has nothing to feed off, but they now direct that all to the other people.

42:03

So when I work with teenagers that are being bullied, it's the same thing.

42:06

I get teenagers to be more confident and then the bullying stops.

42:10

Now that energy generating as opposed to having to use so much energy to fight something that is constantly coming at you to help you.

42:21

So again, the bully isn't the enemy in the story, in the bigger picture, the bully is literally going, what do I need to do to get you more confident?

42:32

And this is all playing out unconsciously. So again, even if I have a, a woman client that's coming to me and she's saying I'm being bullied in the boardroom, I say, and she's saying it's because I'm a woman.

42:44

And I go, no, it's not. They're just feeding off your victim route.

42:48

So again, when I get her into that space of honest confidence, she goes back in the boardroom and now the men are treating her as one of the board members.

42:57

Not one of the men but one of the board members.

43:00

And suddenly they're all ears. And that is so again, counterintuitive for people to understand that people are reflecting back and always helping us on our journey.

43:11

And if I'm being fake confident, then I'm gonna get still that constant bullying behavior or that constant what you would call negative behavior.

43:20

But I wouldn't call it that. I would call it relentless self-reflection.

43:26

And because we keep batting it away, it has to come even harder and harder to break through the protective layer that we've got up.

43:34

It's not a fault in the design, it's perfection in the design.

43:38

Because the biggest picture that we're all living by is I need to know who I honestly am.

43:43

That's why we're on earth. That's it.

43:46

And it's the one goal, the one purpose to every human on the planet.

43:51

But we don't see it like that. We think life's against her, but it's actually doing all it can like in nature to help us flourish.

43:58

But we've been trained to see.

44:01

Yeah, and I love that you talk to them. You talk about like life should be effortless, life should be easy.

44:05

And then someone else said this to me when I spoke to them and, and yeah we've she, she actually said we've been sold a lie.

44:10

Like everyone tells us, you know, life is hard and you've got to work hard and you've got to do this.

44:14

And it's a battle. And actually it's, I love that you say that it's effortless.

44:17

I mean, can you just speak to that, why is life effortless and why should it be effortless?

44:21

And how have we got it so wrong?

44:22

I'm gonna go back to the nature analogy. When I've spent time in so many different ecosystems around the world and I never go in there, I was never in, I was in the middle of the Amazon and at no point did I go, that tree is growing in the wrong place.

44:36

That s stir the wrong thing. That spider that looks like it could eat me isn't doing the wrong thing.

44:42

That snake that I nearly stepped on and it shot away from me.

44:46

It wasn't that even if it shot towards me, it's not trying to kill me for no reason in that environment.

44:52

It's not about blame, it's about understanding danger and that basics of what do I need to do to keep living?

44:58

So I go back to that. I look around these ecosystems and when they're allowed to, they flourish effortlessly.

45:06

That, and even the indigenous people that live in these environments, they're not trying to control their environment.

45:11

They're not in, you know, they're not blaming the the tree for scratching them.

45:16

No. They go immediately into, oh I need to learn from that.

45:18

I need to, you know, self-reflect. I need to work with nature not against it.

45:23

So the end result of blame is separation.

45:26

So after I blame you for being the problem in my life, we have conflict.

45:31

So after conflict we have separation.

45:34

You are the problem cuz I'm blaming you, you are blaming me.

45:37

So we better just not see each other anymore.

45:40

So on a more spiritual level, what's happened is we've separated from ourselves.

45:45

That's why our mind body is not connected even though it's obviously intrinsically connected, but we feel like it isn't.

45:52

And then the, one of the biggest things we've ever done is because of that separation, we've separated ourself from nature.

45:59

Now we're afraid to go into nature cuz we think it's designed to hurt us in some way.

46:06

And it's not. If we learn how to live with it and self-reflect and use our imagination, then life naturally is effortless because that's what nature shows us every day.

46:19

Yeah, we've just got to be open to it, haven't we? Yeah. And I guess we're so distant from it in so many ways.

46:24

Yeah. And the lives that we look now, we're just not gear up to it.

46:26

Which makes me sad.

46:27

But that's the other thing it we've also, even like when we look at neuroscience or some of the, or even the medical system, they've separated the body.

46:39

Their basic premise is that it's malfunctioning, like we said earlier.

46:43

So all of their solutions are gonna be on how to fix something that isn't broken.

46:48

And then after that they've segmented the body.

46:50

So I'm an expert in the nose or the throat, in the ears.

46:54

I'm an expert at the heart, I'm an expert of the liver.

46:58

And that in itself now separates you again nature cuz there is an individual component of nature.

47:04

Everything's working symbiotically together.

47:07

So again, all the time we are practicing the art separation without knowing it, the art of blame.

47:15

That's what needs to be.

47:17

It's to me now, it's so obvious that's what needs to be addressed over anything else in your world, in your life.

47:23

Well I wanted to ask you about that actually. I mean this podcast is called good intentions because it's all about how can we connect and how can we ground ourselves and how do you dad at stay grounded and connected to what's important to you with all the hoopla of life that's going on outside the window?

47:39

As I was traveling around the world, I spent enormous amount of time in isolation.

47:43

I really did. And I didn't realize why I would see Cows nature as a place to be.

47:50

Cause I realized later on, in retrospect is the only environment that has not blame or controlling it.

47:54

So that's why we feel so relaxed in nature cuz it's like, oh, nothing's blaming me, nothing's trying to control me.

48:02

Everything is working perfectly and I will unconsciously know that.

48:07

So when I go into nature now, I instantly feel amazing because of that.

48:11

But actually I don't ever need to ground anymore because I'm constantly grounded because I don't think anything's going wrong.

48:19

It's only you thinking something will has go wrong that makes you feel ungrounded.

48:25

But once you know everything's working for you to help you find out who you honestly are.

48:29

But the bigger picture rug, you realizing your potential, how can you not be grounded all the time?

48:34

I think another bit of my head just exploded at the back there.

48:36

Yeah, I mean that's of course you're making such perfect sense.

48:40

Yeah. And then that's when you, and that's the other thing that people don't realize is when you are trying to fix yourself or you're trying to force that symptom to go away or to force yourself to be grounded, you are in blame straight away cuz you think you are not your tummy wrongs happening.

48:58

So you can do all those things to be grounded, which I know that you're referring to.

49:02

What's that thing? What's that thing you can lay on?

49:04

What's that technique you can use? But as all the time you're doing that you are missing again repoing, it isn't to be able to do it, it's about the byproduct.

49:14

The byproduct should be you feel grounded as opposed to trying to be grounded.

49:20

Does that make sense?

49:21

Yeah, it makes total sense. Someone said it recently to me, oh I can't remember the phrase that she used, but I was kind of like, yeah, so you know, we're doing all the stuff.

49:28

So like I'm journaling and meditating exercise.

49:30

I lie on the spiky thing I got from mama's and I keep onto the bedroom, I can't sleep.

49:34

I do it like that. I'm doing all this stuff, but I still feel like this.

49:37

And then, and yeah, I can't remember the phrase she is, but yeah, I totally get it because doing the stuff, it's not the doing the stuff that's supposed to impact you, right?

49:45

It's the, the stuff is not the thing. It's, it's the process that you're going through and the end result.

49:50

Yeah. So that was when all the biohacking came in and it's all, you know, you've got a biohack, you've gotta get your rigid habits in place now.

49:57

So make sure you've got your good habits and this is how to get rid of your bad habits.

50:00

Not realizing that's instilling your blame addiction.

50:04

Cuz now you are confirming every day that you're doing something wrong.

50:07

And as soon as that new good habit that you think is benefiting you, as soon as you don't do it what's left, you'll feel guilty.

50:15

You're ashamed, you feel like a failure. So you've got the sword of Damocles hanging over you all day in case you go back to your wrong way.

50:23

But actually the old habits weren't wrong.

50:26

They were just extreme feedback that you need to self-reflect and really heal.

50:32

And once you get into that frame of mind, then every day, every morning is different because you are connected to the different you that day as opposed to what you think you should be and how you shrum wedge a habit or a routine into your life when again, that's just control.

50:51

Imagine nature. That would be like the tree having to be the same size every day.

50:57

But the tree is growing every day. It's different every day.

51:00

It has different requirements every day. And when a storm comes in and knocks a lot of it's branches off or whatever else, it's different.

51:07

It needs more nutrient, less nutrient, it needs more insects, less insects.

51:13

So every day is different, but we have been taught that we've gotta make sure every day's the same.

51:20

Yeah. And that's just, you'll become so much more of an expert blamer, so much more fearful and full of anxiety all the time.

51:27

You follow that remit of line.

51:29

Absolutely. That feeling you've not, you've not done what you should do.

51:32

And I was gonna ask you routine, but I figured, I realized now this is, this is not the right question to ask you at all.

51:36

I mean, how do you, do you structure your line for me?

51:39

Do you, are you, are you literally just get up and just see how you feel every day or how does that work?

51:43

It's a really great question to clarify what I'm saying, because again, if you are a harrowing addict and you get up in the morning and you said to them, well, just do what you feel, they're gonna have some heroine.

51:54

And arguably we know that isn't gonna be a long-term solution for their health plan.

51:59

It's not about that. It's about getting to a point.

52:02

So if you are using morning routines to help you survive, then that's great.

52:05

I won't tell you not to do that, but I will wait for you to tell me, Dennis, I didn't make my bed this morning and I felt great and you've been making it religiously for so long.

52:15

And then you'll say to me, Dennis, I didn't need my coffee this morning, Dennis.

52:18

You know, I know it. I didn't go to the gym today because I actually listened to my body and my body went, please don't go to the gym today.

52:25

And if I was to give you one routine that I do, it's as my eyes open, I check in with my body and talk to my body in the way I've shown you to how I, it's not, how do I feel?

52:37

Let me eat, you know, a pizza for breakfast.

52:40

It's what do I need? But it's based on the fact that I've gone through a process of there's no blaming me anymore.

52:46

So I'm very open. Like the other day I literally, or the other week, I wish you had a whole week of eating two CROs ons a day with loads of butter and honey, now I'm waking up every day going, I need it again.

52:59

I need it again. And then after seven or eight days it was like, I woke up and he's like, you're done.

53:05

You don't need it anymore. But because I'm not afraid of that, I don't think I'm gonna be having POS every morning for the next, for the rest of my life.

53:14

It's, I'm allowed my body to go, you need more fat.

53:16

I don't know intellectually why. And you also need whatever's in honey because I never eat Quan and I never have that much butter and I never would intellectually, cuz I know nutrition, I wouldn't combine those three things normally, but my body's gone.

53:31

Whatever's contained within that combination, you need it.

53:35

But then once my body was full, I'm done.

53:38

I, the craving completely went. And I'll never know how that benefited me.

53:43

And I'm really happy with that, not knowing.

53:47

So that's why I can go with the Airbus blood.

53:49

Amazing. Yeah. Not blaming yourself for eating something that's Yeah.

53:52

Technically negative, whatever, bad carbs.

53:55

Yeah.

53:56

But I wanna make it clear there's a, there's a much bigger topic here.

54:00

It's not about if you crave quants in the morning and it's three weeks that you are eating cross on, it might be something else playing out.

54:09

I'm just really highlighting the fact that my routine is based on me connecting with my body often in the way I'm asking you to.

54:18

And the fact that I'm doing a lot of, what's the best way I get a massage before I need a massage.

54:24

So I'm doing a lot of preventative work so I don't get ill, I don't have stress in my life, which I then have to deal with.

54:33

Most people when they're feeling good, they would never think about getting a massage or doing any healing.

54:39

Where for me I'm like, I feel good most of the time.

54:42

So it's the only time I could do it is when I'm in that place.

54:46

So that's where I wanna get my clients to that you do the healing when you don't need to do the healing.

54:51

Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah. Don't wait until you're a operating point and yeah.

54:54

Yeah. Everybody's shouting at you about something.

54:57

No, I totally agree with. So I mean we've mentioned your book obviously, which is fantastic and the Blame game.

55:02

Do you have any other books that have sort of meant something to you that you recommend people that are sort of, have been important in your life that you could tell us, tell us about?

55:09

I could start with an obvious one, which would be the outcome is because it's all based on everything unfolding in a weird and wonderful magical way.

55:21

And it's so easy to go into that place of thinking it was bad, negative or wrong, but then you realize it's a beautiful story of a, it was a blessing in disguise and in hindsight there's always something happening to benefit you.

55:35

So that's an obvious one for me.

55:37

And then the less obvious one is a book that's called Don't Sleep.

55:42

There Are Snakes by Daniel Everett.

55:44

What

55:45

A great title. Yeah,

55:46

It is. And it's a guy that went into the, I forget what tribe it is, but he went into the Deep Amazonian tribe to convert them into Christianity.

55:56

And it was his journey of how he actually came out very different cuz he learned from how they saw the world.

56:05

It's just more about helping you realize how the more cultures you expose yourself to the less black and white your thinking becomes.

56:13

So blame creates black and white thinking positive, negative, right, wrong.

56:17

That's, that's all you see. But the more time you spend in, in nature and also in cultures, you realize that what's right in one culture or one environment is good in another.

56:28

So was it ever good or bad in the first place?

56:30

Maybe it's all happening for those weird and wonderful reasons.

56:33

And this book is a deep dive into all of those cultural differences that for me was so mind openingly brilliant.

56:42

Sounds fantastic.

56:43

I highly recommend it. And then any book that's about animal communication, especially any book from Cloud St.

56:50

Lynch.

56:50

Yeah, I'd love to maybe we'll have a separate conversation on that donors, cause I'd love to talk to you more about that.

56:54

There's so much that we just don't know that we assumed right about that area that we um, that it's just fascinating and, and what was it somebody said to me, um, maybe it was Kelly Eater, I interviewed her.

57:05

She said, yeah, animals are talking to us all the time. They're communicating with us all the time.

57:08

It's just, you've just gotta be open to to listening and and to see the, the signs, right?

57:12

Like they, they're always doing it. It's just just cause they can't open their mouth and speak.

57:15

They are speaking to us, which I think is, they're fascinating.

57:19

I believe at some point that humans were telepathic, you know, back in the day.

57:24

And again, I don't know, but I kind of have a feeling back then if we were in that way telepathic then, then there wouldn't be any blame because there wasn't nothing to hide from.

57:34

You're in constant communication. So you don't need to control anything or be dishonest because everyone knows everything about everyone.

57:41

And it that, I think that then mirrors nature unconsciously invisibly, everyone knows what everyone else is doing and everyone's got that, oh, we need more here and less here and everything's working together symbiotically.

57:54

So it makes, when I started to go into animal communication, it really helped me because it was that realization that, oh of course they're always talking, how ignorant would it be for me to think they're not.

58:05

And then you learn that they communicate through pictures and all these other different ways and the more you tap into your imagination and the less blame you have in you, you are more open to that communication.

58:15

And it's a beautiful relationship then with, again, I know I've said it about a million times, but we've gotta build that relationship with nature again.

58:22

That's how we will honestly realize our potential so much quicker.

58:26

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I always like to end on one big question, Dennis.

58:30

I think you're gonna help it. Answer for me. Why do you think we're here?

58:32

What's our purpose on this earth?

58:34

Well, I think I touched on it earlier actually.

58:36

When I think about it, it's, I think we all share one underlying purpose and it's to know who we honestly are.

58:46

And I think regardless of your religious, your philosoph, philosophical beliefs, every single person on the planet has got that one goal.

58:56

And that's why life's really generous.

58:59

It will just be relentless in the messaging and the finds and the signals and the encouragement for you to break through all of your control, all of your blame.

59:09

So you finally get to know who that person is and then you create a life based on that person, not the fake one.

59:17

And that's when you get access to however effortless likely it's designed to be, but also how magically it is.

59:22

And that for me is, is the one purpose.

59:25

It for me. The purpose is of me to be a coach or to own my company round table or be a co-founder of my other company beyond Bamboo.

59:33

That's not my purpose. These are just extensions of knowing who I actually am and they give me feedback all the time as to what I need to work on in terms of my healing.

59:46

And I think if you imagine an ecosystem that know each individual knows who they honestly are and we've got better at listening to ourselves and listening to each other than nata, that's an ecosystem that can only do one thing and that's flourished out of control.

1:00:01

And that's beautiful for me and that's what drives me to do what I do.

1:00:05

Gosh, what a fantastic point to end on.

1:00:08

So uplifting. Thank you so much, Dennis. That was such a fantastic conversation.

1:00:11

I absolutely loved it. Um, thank you so much for giving me your time.

1:00:14

Absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for having, thank you.

1:00:18

Thanks so much for listening to The Good Intentions podcast.

1:00:21

You can find links to issues and to books that we discussed in the show notes.

1:00:25

And you can look for the podcast on Instagram.

1:00:27

It's Good Intentions uae.

1:00:29

Please do make sure you subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed this conversation, I'd so appreciate a review on whatever platform you're using.

1:00:36

It helps more people find out about the podcast.