0:02

Welcome to good intentions, the podcast where we explore the world around us to find meaning and intention in what we do.

0:09

I'm Kelly Harvard, and I'm on a mission to spread positive stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful and connected life.

0:18

Do you ever feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of stuff that you have?

0:21

Do you have too many things at home that you dunno what to do with you're not alone.

0:25

Most of us have a bit of a hoarding streak and live with clutter in our lives.

0:29

So my guest, this episode is perfect for all of us.

0:32

Shelina trickier discovered she had a natural gift for organizing when she was a child spending hours, organizing cassette tapes, CDs, DVDs, and her huge collection of Madonna memorabilia into simple systems.

0:43

While school teachers admired her organized files, it wasn't considered a career choice and she was encouraged to study law.

0:49

After reading law at university, Shelina became a solicitor working in London and Dubai, but despite her success, she knew her heart was elsewhere.

0:57

She never gave up on her dreamer for coming a professional organizer and decided to take the leap launching declutter me in 2013, where it became the region's first licensed professional organizing service Shaina's mission is to help people lead a more relaxed, motivated, and productive life free of clutter.

1:14

And we talked a lot about how the things that we own can overwhelm us, and this goes way deeper than you might think affecting us on a very deep cellular level.

1:21

We explored the huge emotional side of decluttering, and I loved what she had to say about conscious consumerism, thinking really hard about what we buy and why we are buying it and how clutter can act as a cloud over our heads and hearts Shelina has also written a book.

1:34

Can you find it in five seconds, which she'd better believe I am buying a copy of everything.

1:38

She said spoke straight to my soul. If you're yearning to lead a more simple life with less than this episode really is for you.

1:45

Sheina is warm wise and she's also absolutely hilarious.

1:48

I loved our conversation and I know you will too. Please enjoy it.

1:52

Morning. Thanks so much for joining me today on the podcast

1:55

Morning. How are you?

1:56

I'm great. Thank you. I'm great. How are you feeling? How you doing?

1:59

Yeah, not bad's the, of the, should I, I mention that?

2:04

No, I shouldn't end

2:05

End of week. End of week. Hysteria<laugh> know.

2:07

We always, we always feel a bit on a Friday what

2:10

Used to,

2:11

Well, thanks so much for finding the time to join me on the podcast.

2:14

Um, I've been dying to talk to you for ages. I actually feel a bit like you're my spirit animal in many ways, um, doing your research on, yeah, you've got such a fascinating job, which I'm dying to hear more about on many different levels.

2:23

So first of all, like tell us who comes to you for decluttering and why they come to you just, just set this up for

2:28

Us. So mostly it's local. So about 5% are the locals who live here.

2:34

You know, they got the big houses, they've got a lot of staff they've lived with families or still do.

2:39

So I have clients cause they've been doing this for nine years.

2:41

So I've had clients who wanna do their bedroom when they're living with their parents, then, then they, it happens.

2:59

And you're like, that's

3:00

That? That's a journey though, isn't it? Yes.

3:02

It's a real cycle of, you know, ups and downs and wanted to ask you about, I'll probably get a bit more into this, but I wanted to ask you about the emotional side of it as well, and that affect people and that out.

3:13

So I think that's really interesting.

3:14

Yeah, we will. I do my kind, the clients, I track are ones who do have like mental health issues, because I'm quite vocal about my mental health issues with depression and stuff, because we were growing up.

3:27

We didn't talk about it. And when I was working as a lawyer, didn't, wasn't mentioned nobody, you know, I just suffered.

3:34

So now I'm very like talk about it, deal with it, you know, kind of thing.

3:39

So a lot of clients come to me who have those kind of issues.

3:42

Sometimes they don't realize until we start working together and then it comes out cause I'm in their personal space.

3:48

So I helping them in closet and in their bedroom, nobody else is in there ever.

3:53

You, I go everything, I out everything.

3:57

So I am totally in this space.

4:00

So then they open up and tell me everything.

4:03

So that's with a lot of clients, then I go abroad as well and help clients abroad as well.

4:10

So it's a mixture of people and now getting more men, men, we're very reluctant to services, but now they're up realizing they need help as well.

4:19

So that's good.

4:20

Oh, that's interesting. Gosh, so interesting. And you touched on the fact that you used to be a lawyer and I'm really interested in this, this sort of part and this sort of transition.

4:26

Cause I, I often speak to people who have made quite a big transition in their lives and yours is a big one.

4:30

So you had this very traditional, very lucrative career in law.

4:33

You know, what made you walk away from that? Like, was there something that gave you a final push or was it just something that had built up like talk, talk us through how that happened?

4:40

So it was a mixture of building up.

4:43

So I had, you know, I had mental health issues.

4:46

I had depression and it was working really hard working long hours.

4:51

The last company I worked for, I, you know, a drop of a hat, they'd say you have to fly to Mexico or you to fly Switzerland or London for work.

4:58

And it just would be, I love your Marcus.

5:04

So,

5:07

So yeah, it was justing I didn't see the sunlight, you know, I wasn't holiday, you know, they were like, well, you're traveling, that's a holiday, you know it's but you know, so more and more miserable.

5:21

And I was angry at work and you know, people were just horrible to me at work.

5:26

And I wasn't pleasant either because I was, you know, head in dealing so much stuff.

5:33

I couldn't take it anymore. And then my boss was kicked out onerously and that like a week later I just, I, I sat in my office, closed the door, told everybody to go away and just Googled about uttering and organizing.

5:47

Cause it had been my dream for years. I thought about it.

5:50

Like when I was working in London and thought it was a mental idea.

5:54

And then it realized, I'd realized it, Wass people doing, doing it already in America, in the UK and no one was doing it here.

6:00

So I started it here. So cause nobody in the whole of the middle east was doing it.

6:05

Nobody knew what it was. It wasn't a word until recently.

6:08

So

6:09

Yeah, but that must have been usually daunting. I mean, you know, you're sat in this, you know, lovely office with this job that yes is very stressful, but it's paying you a good salary every month.

6:17

I mean, were you terrified? How did you feel when you decided to hand in your notice and do it?

6:21

Yeah, no, I was, I, I was so miserable by the time I quit.

6:24

Well, I was being logical and organized as I, I came up with the idea of March set up the business April.

6:33

No, yeah. Everything started coming like the branding and everything was in March.

6:36

April created the company in August.

6:39

I didn't quit until October, so I had saved money.

6:43

So I made sure I saved all the money.

6:46

Did put all my, everything was, you know, set up ready for me to start my business.

6:52

So I was already blogging about to in organizing and starting to pick up followers on social media.

6:59

So it, it, wasn't just a spur of the moment and quit, just do everything it was planned properly.

7:05

So

7:06

I like to hear this as well. Cause I mean, it's, it's interesting that even, even in the way you started the business is how you sort of is in keeping with the ethos of the business and measured.

7:15

And I like that, but also I think it's maybe a more realistic story.

7:18

Right. You know, you do hear these people that are like, yes, I just walked out and I resigned.

7:21

And the next day I started my company and I'm like, but did you like, surely you must have had some financial backing from someone like, how did you eat?

7:27

Like people are not always not saying people are lying about how they set up their businesses.

7:31

But I think sometimes there's a bit of fudging that goes on about how it really works.

7:34

Yeah. It's I been into, you know, entrepreneur, business conferences and all that when I used to love, not love, but I used to network a lot and there is a lot of that.

7:44

Like people like, yeah, I did everything and I got a million in a month and you're like, no, you didn't, you got backing or so, yeah.

7:50

Yeah. And like, you know, and especially, I mean, people didn't know what I was doing, so I didn't get clients for, you know, I got, I did get actually straight away and then it was quiet after that for a while.

8:01

So it, you have to build up the business, especially something so niche as mine.

8:05

So it takes a while you have to have savings, you have to, you know, I'm, I've got parents that support me.

8:10

So I've had that, but you know, I didn't have a husband or, you know, which is, I mean I had money, I'd saved up a lot of money, but it's tough.

8:18

It's not easy to start with.

8:21

No, not all, not at all. I think, yeah. It'll be helpful with more people.

8:23

We're a bit more honest about it. Cause I think, you know, we'll look at the statistics about new businesses that fail, then people that, you know, go into it thinking it's gonna be fantastic and they don't realize just how hard it is and perhaps a bit more honesty around it would be helpful in my opinion.

8:34

Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned your parents and I, I love there's this story about you sort of like lining up your Madonna set tapes and like organizing things when you were a kid, which I loved.

8:43

Cause I think I used to do the same, but with perhaps a slightly different genre, I mean bit of Gloria<inaudible> was it there for me?

8:48

<laugh> and was it something in your childhood or was it something within you that meant you always had this sort of like aptitude for organization and want wanting things to be ordered?

8:56

Where do you think that came from?

8:58

I think it's a mixture being genetics with my dad.

9:01

My dad's very organized. So he's his filing was always organized.

9:07

His tool, his tools are very organized and you know, he's got little, you know, the tobacco used to be in Tims.

9:14

The, I mean he didn't smoke, but he has a lot of these tins.

9:17

So all the nails were in different tins and they all stacked properly.

9:22

He was, and the she's very organized, even now they redid the she and it's organized.

9:26

So dad's very organized. Mom's not. So doesn't like that's yeah.

9:32

Was like, I've always been like that.

9:34

I was born like that. And funny you talk about Gloria Stein.

9:37

Cause my first CD that we, we bought CD player in the house and we went to our price with my parents and I wasn't allowed to buy the album from Madonna.

9:48

Cause it came out at that time and you know, I wanted it to be my first CD Madonna.

9:52

They were like, no, it has to be family CD. So it was Gloria to fans square bit.

9:56

So yeah. So that's I always, yeah, we love LA around in the house.

10:00

<laugh> yeah. It's always been a thing.

10:02

And then yeah, with Madonna, I have all her newspaper, cuttings books, concert ticket, everything was organized properly.

10:09

And then when I started working, I, I kept on Regan final systems.

10:13

So everybody's very organized where I worked.

10:16

Well, they were, when I worked there

10:18

Mean, do you still have any of these Madonna concert tickets?

10:21

You should be getting them on eBay. Come on.

10:23

Yeah. All it's I have somewhere books.

10:31

I have book all the cinema.

10:35

So I have one in England from when I first went to the cinema and then I have from here from onwards.

10:41

And so I, and see what movies I saw and make sure out the even now like, but so yeah, it's,

10:55

Thing's a lot of merit in, um, you know, obviously when we were kids, like there was a lot more paper and real things.

10:59

Right. So, I mean, I was obsessed with photo albums and I used to literally, you know, we used to take our cameras out and get them developed and stick them in.

11:05

I used to arrange them. And then when my parents came to visit recently, they bought some of them with them and it was just incredible.

11:11

Like you cannot compare going through phone photos or through Instagram to picking up a big, heavy photo album and actually going through pictures.

11:19

It was just, it's an in incre. And my, my daughter was obviously like, she thinks it's like landed from another planet.

11:23

She's eight. So she was like, what, what are these mama?

11:26

And why they out? And yeah, I like sat there feeling like, like, you know, something from the Jurassic era.

11:32

Yeah. But yeah, there's merit in that and the memories that they hold for you and, you know, keeping things like that.

11:37

Right.

11:37

Yeah. Well saying that I looked at home, my parents were doing the garage and I found all the photos and I went through them and picked out one from say each wallet that, you know, there was always packs wasn't it and found.

11:50

And I got like three books of photos now.

11:54

Cause you can still buy'em in paper, the photo albums.

11:57

So I've got them. So one for travel, one for family and one for something else random.

12:03

So, and I did the same because there was the nostalgia.

12:06

So I have these beautiful books, photo albums with the photos that I treasure

12:11

I'm jumping around a bit. But you know, obviously when you come into people's homes and you're trying to sort of, you know, organize them and, and sort out, you know, prioritize what is important and what isn't.

12:19

I mean, how do you approach things like this that are sort of have such a huge emotional tie to them?

12:23

You know, a pair of shoes that you never wore is very different to a picture of, you know, your mom and dad getting married or something.

12:28

So how do you, I mean, how strict are you? How do you approach these kind of emotional things?

12:33

It's different, it's different and it's difficult.

12:36

It depends on the person. I had one client she wanted to get of everything.

12:42

She was grieving. She wanted to throw away photos. So I didn't in bin.

12:47

I had shred bag and them in here and I gave it to the husband because I was like, she's grieving.

12:55

She's getting rid of photos. I was like duplicates and bad photos.

13:00

You know, the ones that were all funny and weird.

13:02

Yes. We'll get rid of them. So I was putting them to one side, but the ones that were actually looked fine and course didn't know who they were.

13:10

I was like, husband, you look at them later and then you can decide whether it's from or not, because she was just getting rid of everything.

13:17

But yeah, it's a difficult one. And there are specific photo organizers in the world who will deal with photos because it's such a big thing to do.

13:26

It's a big project. So yeah.

13:31

Interesting. I was doing some research around and I'm sure you know all about this, but you know, like there there's decluttering, but then there's the actual reasons why we do it and the, and the major effect it can have on you.

13:41

So, you know, helping your mental health, helping your anxiety, you know, stress even helps you sleep better.

13:46

Apparently. So how does decluttering? It seems so simple.

13:49

You know, I'm gonna go through my wardrobe and what I'm suddenly gonna feel better about life.

13:52

Like, can you talk us through like the actual, emotional and mental benefits of it?

13:55

Let's put it this way. There's a cloud. That's over your head when you got too much clutter, you know, so you're anxious, you're frustrated.

14:01

You're overwhelmed. If you wake up in the morning and you see clutter, you're annoyed before you even got into the bathroom to have a shower, then you go into the bathroom and you're annoyed.

14:11

Cause you've got millions of shower gel and some people have like 10 types of toothpaste and yeah, there's, there's that, there's that, I mean, I've got four types of shower gel, that's my addiction.

14:21

And then, you know, you go into the kitchen and you to cereal and you know, there's, you have lots of that choice.

14:27

It's just so many things to go through before you even stepped out the door and then you have to drive on the roads here.

14:34

So, you know, it's annoyed before you've even got the, that is just a physical of how bad it be having.

14:45

So if that the time you, for things, you get more calmer and you feel the weight off your shoulders.

14:55

And I see it with clients because you know, when you're with organizers, we work with you for a set amount of time.

15:01

So I'll work with four, eight hours with clients and they can't mess around on their phone.

15:06

They can't make cups of tea. Well, they can make cup of tea for a, you know, they can't procrastinate.

15:11

They have to get on with it cause they've paid me to be there.

15:14

So I make them do the work, you know, get on with it.

15:17

And after that you can see the weight off the shoulders cause they can see the difference.

15:22

They it's from one state to another state and I'll show before and after pictures as well.

15:27

So they can see how much of a difference they made in their lives doing this.

15:31

So that's the big thing. But usually, you know, as I said, I talk to them as well.

15:35

So I find out what other issues they are. And sometimes they let it out.

15:39

They cry, you know, they'll get angry or whatever with their lives, but then they'll see one side of their life as sorted and that they can then go and get counseling or talk to people or get whatever help they need mentally as well.

15:53

Wow. That's super powerful. So what can seem like quite simple, almost like a fun or someone's gonna help me kind like streamline my space then turns into almost like a therapy session, like a kickoff point to something else.

16:04

Yeah, it is its and it's weird that I've become like this therapist without the qualifications.

16:09

And I don't, you know, I don't talk Lobo jumbo and stuff, but it is, you know, you just talk to them normally and it doesn't matter who the person is.

16:17

They're a shaker or a normal person.

16:19

Like I talk to everybody the same. I will take the out of everybody the same, you know, if they've got ridiculous things in their closet, I will tell them.

16:27

So I make it fun, but I also allow them to let it out whenever is happening in their lives.

16:33

And I think that's, that needs to be done as well because this is such a mentally tiring exercise to do and physically tiring sometimes.

16:41

And it must be quite a big step for someone to actually call you.

16:44

I mean, it depends on, I guess on the level of what the state is in that they need to sort of decluttering or, you know, cleansing, if it, depending on how extreme it is, but it's quite a big deal to invite someone into your home to do that and to actually get to the point where you're like, I need help just to ask for help in any area of your life is quite a big deal.

16:59

So to get to that point, people must, you it's quite a brave thing to do.

17:02

I would say.

17:02

Yeah. And I mean, I always say to them, they've got the breaking point to get to the point of, and with me, you know, I know that a lot of the people have followed me on Instagram for months or years and haven't taken that step to get in touch.

17:16

And then when they do, I know they've got to that breaking point, you know, and that they're ready and sometimes they get to that point and then they get scared again.

17:25

So then they'll be like, no, I can't do this. Or they don't even respond to me, but they've taken the steps to get there.

17:30

And I think that, yeah, as you said, it's brave and I admire anybody who asks for help.

17:35

You know, it's, it's always a good

17:36

Thing. Yeah. Whatever hour of your life, I couldn't agree more without sort of breaking any confidences.

17:40

Can you tell us a bit about some of your most extreme clients?

17:42

I mean, I did see that you had a client who had two bedrooms full of clothes, which, you know, we could all make jokes about, oh, how fantastic to have this dress, these dressing rooms full of clothes.

17:50

But you know, sometimes when I see like the dressing room on sex in the city, I get a bit anxious.

17:54

Cause there's just so much stuff in it. I'm like tell

17:59

Yeah, Brad to organized.

18:02

It was always used to annoy. And

18:07

That is, and yeah,

18:09

Extreme. I've had one that had a moving box fill of Cartier boxes and Harry Winston boxes.

18:16

And I had to go through all the boxes and make sure there was nothing in there.

18:19

And then we put the boxes away for storage. So yeah,

18:23

Imagine a then tennis bracelet.

18:27

I, but like not too many jewels.

18:29

It was more like bits, you know, for cardio watches and stuff like that, but you still have to keep them.

18:33

So yeah, there there's been that. Um, but as I said, a lot of mine is, you know, people deal with mental health.

18:39

So there's ones where they have so much stuff because they're just buying, especially when they got grief.

18:44

So I had one who had loads of stuff on her bed.

18:48

She couldn't sleep in a bed. And that happens a lot with clients that they have so much stuff that they can't even sleep in their own bed, you know, some sleep on the couch or they sleep in another room if they have other bedrooms.

18:58

And so that was, we had to go through all the stuff on the bed, open up the bags.

19:03

A lot of the stuff was like, it'd gone off.

19:05

It was toiletries, you know, because it'd been there for so long.

19:09

So, you know, or we just threw it or donated the stuff.

19:12

So it cleared the bed and it cleared the bedroom so she could sleep.

19:15

So she'd get her proper, night's sleep again. And that triggered her to get the help she needed as well.

19:20

So, you know, people see things and go, oh my God, that's crazy.

19:24

And then you're like, well think about what else happens after you cleared up all this stuff.

19:29

Gosh, I mean, I can't imagine. I mean, obviously I've seen it on, you know, TV programs and this, but going into a space that is that sort of that cluttered and that full, I mean, do you ever walk in and does your heart just fall and just think, no, I'm, I'm not gonna be able to do this today or do

19:42

Sometimes I do. I've met hoards.

19:44

I haven't, I've dealt with one or two hoards in my time.

19:48

And that is really draining even for me like, because it is a mental issue that they have and trying to help them and you try and you wanna do so much, but they can only do so little.

20:01

So yeah, that one can be overwhelming. And sometimes like I I've been in houses, like, you know, you go to these closets and you go and there's moving boxes and we have to unpack everything and you see like hundred moving boxes to go, you know, to Beed and put into the closets.

20:16

And you're just like Jesus. And I usually have assistance with me and they're freaking out and I have calmed.

20:22

So ill be inside going, oh my God, we gonna, it gets done.

20:28

But its to have energy going, oh my God.

20:31

Whereas I'm like calm. This will be fine.

20:34

You know, I'm like,

20:38

Can we, before we even get to this stage, I mean I'm naturally quite minimalist.

20:42

I, I mean, to be honest, I'd love to live in a life with certain things I would need like, you know, cats, candles, my family<laugh> I would really like to live a life with almost nothing.

20:50

I I'm always trying to get rid of things and trying to stop.

20:53

But what so what can we do before we get to the stage when we need to get rid of things, how can we stop ourselves becoming too cluttered in the first place and getting to that point?

21:00

So there's different things. So I have a mantra buy one, get rid of two.

21:04

So if you buy, say a dress, you have to get rid of two dresses, preferably or two things in your closet to make more room.

21:11

And if you get rid of two things, you make even more room for the next things coming in.

21:16

And so that's one, I do a lot, especially, you know, house in your kitchen in bathroom, you buy toiletries, a lot of things for these buy one, get five free candles.

21:29

You know, mean we there's one specific shop that I, I really despise.

21:34

I hate the smell of candles. I hate the smell of the stuff.

21:37

People buy loads of them. It drives me insane.

21:40

So there's those do a mini. So I say that to people, don't take everything out, do one shelf, do you know your coffee table or one kitchen cupboard and just spend 15, 20 minutes working in that section and just get rid of the things.

21:55

And then once you declutter like say the whole kitchen in a week, then you can organize everything into proper systems, but don't take everything out.

22:04

Like other people say, because that's just bad and it gets overwhelming then.

22:09

Yeah, I actually had, um, it was a male friend of mine actually back in the UK and he was starting to do some of the decluttering thing.

22:15

And then he called me one day and was like, Kelly, something really has happened.

22:17

You need to come round. I went, went round his, but he'd literally taken everything out of the bedroom.

22:21

I mean it literally looked like he's been Burg round sack.

22:23

And he was like, I just dunno what to do. I dunno where to start. And I was like, I dunno where to start either.

22:27

Like so overwhelming. I mean, so in the end we just put a lot bit back and then just did like cupboard.

22:32

So I think, yeah, this is interesting advice. Just like do one section at a time until you sort of build up to getting the whole section done, which is a bit what I think we did.

22:40

We did a bit of this during, in COVID when we were all locked down, my husband became obsessed with like drawers and cupboards and kept opening things and tidying things, which was really frustrating.

22:47

It was great. It was exciting for me to see him on board doing some of the ti.

22:51

Yeah. But it happened very random times, which was a bit strange.

22:54

Yeah. Happened a lot people COVID so I, a lot during, and as soon lockdown, like we need cupboard And I think a lot with men as well, a lot of them have always work, you know?

23:13

So they go work, eat, watch.

23:18

Don't actually see inside cupboards very often.

23:22

So they time, which you, as you said was annoying, you been like, why, why are you going for it now?

23:30

But it spur them on to realize that they need to get something done.

23:34

And the wife saying that this is overwhelming.

23:36

They could see it. It's overwhelming. It's not that why can't you do it?

23:40

You've got a ma you you're at home all day.

23:43

Why can't you do it? They could see that actually it is overwhelming mentally and that somebody else should come in and do it for them.

23:50

You know? So

23:51

Yeah. Sorry. It can be very drain. Yeah.

23:53

I think that's the interesting thing that I'm hearing from you is like how, what an emotional investment it is to get involved in this and how it can be ultimately extremely rewarding.

24:01

But going through the process, it's gonna be, you know, prompts, draining, tiring, exposing, you know, things are gonna come up for you, which is really interesting that there's so much emotion attached to things.

24:11

Yeah. Yeah. There is. And you have to remember we, I mean, I was born late seventies and grew up in the eighties culture of consumerism.

24:19

I mean, we didn't have that much. My parents didn't buy millions of my little ponies or Barbies for us.

24:24

I had like two, you know, but a lot of people had a lot of stuff, you know, we bought stuff.

24:29

I mean, but I had about CDs, which I've mostly got rid of now, which is depressing.

24:35

So we were buying and buying and not taught how to get rid of anything.

24:39

So now in the last decade or so there's been this thing about getting rid of things, decluttering and organizing because you have too much stuff.

24:49

So it's all been a learning curve for everybody about what to do and how to get organized, I suppose.

24:57

Mm-hmm and how do you help people to sort of balance this as well?

24:59

Cause I, I feel this really strongly. It's interesting what you're saying about this sort, this, when we live in a consumer as world, whether we like it or not, you know, much as I try to sort of, you know, not buy too much stuff and not have too much, too many things, you know, I'm trying to lead a kind of, sort of spiritual, connected life.

25:12

And yet every time I walk out the door, someone's trying to sell me something.

25:14

So how do we find that balance and how can we, you know, without living in a UT on the size of a side of a mountain, you know, and being able to enjoy yourself, you know, by the nice head balance, get the nice lipstick, but how can we of find that balance and, and stay connected to what's really important.

25:28

I, I struggle with this a lot. I'd love to your thoughts

25:30

On it. I mean, because I'm in this job and I see so much stuff, DEC cluttered, especially from fast fashion and things, you know, online stores, you know, for the house like knacks and stuff.

25:40

So I see so much junk.

25:43

So I think the thing is to try and now buy what you love when you see it, whether it's the shop in the shop, online, buy what you love, what makes you really, really happy when you touch it?

25:58

When you look at it, when you use it, and if it doesn't give you that happiness, just walk out.

26:04

Like, you know, I, I tried on a pair of shoes the other day, cause I wanted to pair of shoes, but I tried them on and I just went not feeling it.

26:11

I'm not feeling that love. So I just, I walked away and she was, oh, you could buy it, you know, online.

26:16

I'm like, no, I'm not, I'm not gonna buy it. So try and do that.

26:20

And if you go and what I do, I have this thing for the, I like buying.

26:25

I even, I shop, so I'll go on the outlet and I'll put things in the basket, but not buy it and I'll leave it there for a week or few days or whatever.

26:34

If it's still there, I'll buy it. If it's not there, then I'm like, well, it wasn't meant to be.

26:39

Um, but, and, and then when I review the basket, I also review it again and say, did I really, really want it?

26:44

So you think about it a bit longer.

26:47

So do that with everything. Cause most of the time it's not gonna sell out straight away.

26:53

Like, unless it's like, you know, the Louiston trainers which have sold out already, but not many people gonna get them anyway.

27:00

So, you know, when you wanna buy something, think about it for a while before you buy.

27:04

Yeah. I like this idea of sort of delaying the gratification and then having a chance to sort of really let it SIM and think about it.

27:09

That's good advice. Thank you. So I kinda feel like there's, there's obviously an element of control when you're decluttering.

27:14

So you're trying to sort of, you know, get things, you know, in a certain order.

27:18

I mean, what do you think about people that say you're kind of going a bit too far too rigid and it's not spontaneous enough.

27:23

If you've got everything organized, how can you kind of be free and easy?

27:26

Like what do you think about that?

27:27

I haven't heard that before, but it makes me think you can still be spontaneous.

27:33

You can go and do experiences.

27:36

You can still buy things. If you see something like if I see a handbag, I love handbags.

27:41

If I see a beautiful handbag and I love it, I will buy it so you can still do it, but just don't buy it for every single thing.

27:50

Like if you go to one of these fashion shops, you don't have to be spontaneous and waste like 30 on a top.

27:59

That's only gonna last for a few days. It's a way of balancing it.

28:02

It's not being about rigid. And I think the thing about being organized is that it's helping you to find everything quickly.

28:07

It's helping you to get on with your life.

28:10

Do you wanna spend minutes looking for something in a drawer or less than five seconds?

28:15

It's that balance? You just, it's more of that than being rigid.

28:19

I think got

28:19

It. You go into people's houses. There might be a family there, you know, and there's maybe there's one person who's really on board with the, you know, the de flattering.

28:26

We're making everything organized, but perhaps other people are sort of a bit less tidy.

28:30

They don't understand this sort of order. So how does that work?

28:33

If you've got somebody that's quite chaotic and somebody that you know, really wants to have this, you know, nice calm environment, how do you get those to, to balance?

28:40

So the one who's chaotic, it depends.

28:42

Who's booked me. So if the one who's chaotic has booked me, then it helps them because then they realize what it's like to be organized.

28:51

And the other person will then support them usually to keep it organized and be very happy.

28:56

Now, if it's the other way around, it's the person who's organized and they're living with say a chaotic husband.

29:03

If we organize a space, say the kitchen or her closet, or, you know, and then the husband sees it, then they realize the benefit of it, of it being organized.

29:14

So that's the way I usually word it, like when they call me and when we're doing the session, I'll be like the other side will see the benefit or you'll see the benefit.

29:23

So that's the way to do it. And usually it's do one room so that the rest of the family can see the benefit.

29:30

And then you can do the rest of the, the rooms or the area

29:34

It almost rubs off on. So it can be infectious in a way, in a positive

29:37

Way. Yeah, it can. Yeah.

29:39

Interesting. I found this really great quote from you that I absolutely loved online where you said my life and career has never been a straight line.

29:45

It's always been curvy. I've never planned for anything.

29:47

I've not really planned my future properly. I should do it all seems to work out that's against how I am.

29:52

Otherwise I'm very controlled and organized, but not in that sense.

29:55

So I kind of feel like there's these two sides to you. There's this kind of like free wheeling spirit.

29:58

And then there's the organizer. Like how does that work in your sort of psyche?

30:03

I dunno, I PIY. So I supposed to be reeling and dreaming and yeah, not, I never was.

30:08

No, I dunno. People ask me same thing and I'm just like,

30:13

Right. It's somehow working. So

30:15

Yeah, I think the, to think about is, you know, with everybody, like, you know, I'm not creative generally, so I don't get energy from being creative.

30:24

It, it thinking of some creative thing for my business takes a lot of energy outta me.

30:29

I procrastinate. I take a long time. Whereas if it's organizing or reading legal documents, I get energy from it and I'll do it really fast.

30:37

So it's that kind of situation that doing a business plan, just too much energy for me.

30:44

So I procrastinated. I ended up doing mind maps, which I love doing.

30:48

So I think that's what, you know, people have to think about like what you energy and what doesn't give you energy.

30:53

The ones that doesn't give you energy is mostly why it longer to do that.

30:58

And you don't do it properly. That's my convoluted way of explaining myself.

31:03

<laugh>

31:05

Now I totally understand. And I think this is where, you know, sometimes also like ask for help, right?

31:08

And lean on other people. Like we don't all have to be good at everything.

31:11

This is a myth, all be good at any everything.

31:13

So if you need help in a certain area of your life or your business ask for help and people will support you, you don't have to do it all yourself.

31:19

Yeah. And there's those exercises and questionnaires that you can do to find out there's like the wheel of something, you know, that tells you what your strengths and there's that whole chart.

31:29

And I remember I did it when I worked at Emirates, like when I came here, cause that's the first job I had being in a lawyer Emirates.

31:35

And you had to do this psychometric test.

31:37

That's the word. And they tell you what you're good at and what you not good at and your strengths and weaknesses and blah, blah, blah.

31:43

And it's very interesting doing those kind of things cause that will pinpoint what your strengths are.

31:48

And so I always knew that I have this strength of being organized, but I'm always in the background.

31:54

I'm never gonna be the Richard Branson of the world.

31:58

You know, the flamboyant show person. I'm always gonna be in the background, getting on with it and getting organized,

32:04

Which there's a huge amount of marathon. It's like, this is, we can't all be Richard Branson.

32:06

We can't all be the Elon mosques of the world.

32:09

I mean, aside from big billionaires, it's, it's that whole, like you say, it's the show boating, isn't it?

32:12

Not everybody has to do that. If we, it, life would horrible chaos, little bit of, of your house.

32:21

It looks lovely. All your house.

32:24

Absolutely perfect. Or do you have like a Monica cupboard anywhere where things are shoved in?

32:28

I have a normal house, so it's not gonna be always perfect.

32:33

And everybody, even organizers, we all said saying that we have to declutter and organize every so often.

32:38

Like, you know, but I do have one cupboard, it's got my snowboarding stuff and it's got a box of old diaries and books and stuff like that.

32:45

And it is one of those that I will occasionally shove things in.

32:49

And then when I open it, cause the ladder's in there.

32:52

So when I have to open it to get the ladder out, then I start swearing and then I have to reorganize it again.

32:56

So yeah, there's one cupboard, but we all it have it.

33:00

And like it's one of those. Yeah. And it was badly made it, it was supposed to be a wardrobe, but it's so terrible that it would, it can never be a wardrobe.

33:07

So I use it for other stuff

33:11

That makes cupboard,

33:14

Which you Monica,

33:17

You know, I'm, I'm pretty good. But we do have, we have this really nice built in cupboard in the hallway and because it's in the hallway, it's, it's a high traffic area.

33:23

So lots of people like to put things in it. I'm not pointing fingers at my husband, but I do open it and find have been shoved in.

33:29

And sometimes it's that thing of when you open the door, like things jump out, its just, you know, it's just that kind of things falling on your head, which is a little bit stressful.

33:35

But um, every now and again, yeah, every month or so normally on like a, well what used to be a Friday morning, which is now a Saturday morning, I will open the doors, put some nice music on, get a coffee, start playing around with it.

33:45

And I'm, I'm a big one for giving things away. So in our house we often, you know, we live, I live in Jamira.

33:50

So it's the part of town where you can put things outside the house and people would take them.

33:53

So we do that a lot, our amazing nanny cents, like all of my daughters clothes that once she's grown out, that they get sent to the Philippines or employees, you know, we're constantly trying to sort of, I used to do the one in one out.

34:04

I'm gonna start doing the one in two out cuz I think that's tip.

34:07

But I'm a great believer in that if anything comes in, just get, I can't have too much stuff.

34:10

It makes me feel, makes me feel itchy and anxious.

34:13

And

34:14

It's not it's the norm in most sounds even.

34:16

I mean for me as well and I still buy things, so things build up in the house.

34:21

So you have to go, everybody has to get rid stuff, but that cupboard is a regular appearance in most of the houses I go to.

34:27

So yeah. So you're not the only

34:31

<laugh> I love that. We're sort, we're sort of talking about sort of how we can make our lives better, how we can sort of connect to what's important to us.

34:37

So I always like to talk about on this podcast to sort of intentions we can set for ourselves.

34:41

So apart from sort of decluttering, do you have any sort of practical tips on how we can keep ourselves working at an optimum level and sort of encourage that sort of positive energy in our lives?

34:51

I mean it can still be decluttering tips, but I just interested to know sort of how you approach things

34:55

For me. I always say get help.

34:58

So if you have a burst, you'd call a plumber.

35:01

If you lock yourself out the house, you get a, a locksmith to come.

35:05

So get help. Whether it's your friends, your family, a third party, an organizer, a counselor, you know, whatever it is, get the help.

35:15

There is no shame in asking for help.

35:18

And I think people need to think about that more and do that more because that's the thing there's still this shame of asking people for help and the worry that they'll people will say no.

35:29

And if people say no, go to somebody else, you know, then get rid of that person de that person for being not helpful, you know?

35:36

But yeah, definitely get help. That's what I always think.

35:38

I dunno why people don't more because why suffer suffering home, suffer inside yourself because you're not reaching out for somebody to help you.

35:48

So that's super interesting that you mentioned sort of decluttering people because I wanted to touch on this as well.

35:53

Does this ever come up in your conversations that sometimes it's a person in your life that is perhaps dragging you down or causing these issues, whether that's, you know, relatives or family or partners or whatever that is, does that come up?

36:04

Yeah, it's come up for me. I mean, from a personal point of view a lot, you know, I mean, when I was a kid, I got bullied.

36:10

When I was in workplace, I got bullied as well. And I'm big on social media.

36:14

So I've had to deal with social media, building up, you know, Twitter, Facebook and you know, all the toxic people.

36:21

So I've seen it a lot and you know, and I'll say to people like if that person is making you feel miserable, if you're not happy being with that person, then why are you with that person?

36:30

Why are you talking to that person? And I'm a big advocate for decluttering people now.

36:36

Like we haven't got time to talk and deal with people.

36:39

You know, I haven't got time, I'm working all the time or sleeping, you know, or cooking or whatever, you know, or going out with friends or going to cinema.

36:47

I haven't got time to deal with people who are being ridiculous.

36:53

So just get rid of them, just deal with the people that you wanna deal with and who you love and care about.

36:59

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think this is becoming more apparent to me, the older I get as well.

37:02

It's like, you think you have time and you don't and the, the very time is such a scarce and precious commodity.

37:08

Like who are you gonna spend it with? Who are you gonna be around?

37:11

It's it's, it's that thing of sort of curating you are the people that you keep company with or whatever that phrase is.

37:16

So like yeah. Yeah. Check, check on those people because they're gonna become your energy as well.

37:20

Now I really agree if you could declutter anybody, whether it's a celebrity world leader, I mean, who would be your like ideal dream sort of client from the, the public world

37:31

Mad, obviously just cause I wanna be with mad and I've never met, but I think she'll be like, she'll be hard work.

37:38

She's hard work. Anyway. I think she'll be a nightmare, but it would still be like, I could finally ring.

37:45

So I'm putting it out there again. Nigella Lawson.

37:48

I saw her last series on TV and I, and her kitchen was so the pantry was so bad.

37:56

So I even tweeted to her while I was watching it. I went, can I please organize your pantry?

38:00

And she didn't reply. I was very hurt. <laugh> I was devastated.

38:05

She didn't say yes. So I'm putting it out there.

38:09

I wanna do her pantry. That's

38:11

Brilliant. I haven't even thought of that. Cause I was instantly thinking like I was thinking Victoria and partly just cause just get in the house and see what glimpse of, but also I was just thinking like, imagine like the costumes, the spice girls stuff like her, her clothes must just be incredible.

38:24

But actually like thinking about kitchens and things is really interesting.

38:27

Yeah.

38:27

And like, if you go on social media, if, you know, especially like on Instagram and TikTok and stuff, you'll see people's houses, like they'll show you around.

38:36

So you see things and go and like, I'll see.

38:40

I, I notice all these things obviously. Cause it's, it's my job.

38:42

So I will see things immediately and go, right.

38:45

I need to organize that. And I've messaged, but like I've puts if ever need someone to I'm so yeah, I've done it to TikTok influences and stuff like I'm like, obviously I have to pay me cuz I'm not doing it for free, but I'll organize it.

39:00

<laugh>

39:02

I love that. Yeah. That's such a good point. Isn't it I'm often if ever I see like a video or anything on I'm always like I have to pause just to see like what's going on in the background of the, of people letting you into their homes isn't is match really interesting.

39:14

Yeah. The beauty ones are really bad. A lot of them got, cause they get so many beauty products, which is

39:19

Ridiculous course. Yeah.

39:20

It's it's horrible. And I've worked with some beauty influencers before.

39:25

It's ridiculous. How much stuff they get. I mean, I've been given stuff, which if I use it, I would take it, but yeah's,

39:34

I've got three found on the go at the moment and even that's making me anxious.

39:37

I'm like just use one until it's finished and use the next one.

39:40

I don't need three. I don't need three, but I'm as susceptible as the next person to a good bit of marketing.

39:45

So yeah, sometimes there's a going out one.

39:47

There's a daytime one. There's a,

39:49

Well now I have three as well. I have one for a different one.

39:52

I'm one regular one.

39:55

And then the light one, the Laura Meier one is the tinted moisturizer.

39:59

Yeah. That's true. Actually I have holiday one as well. So actually maybe got four slides here.

40:04

Yeah. Mean this is how it happens. Right. And then before, you know, you've got 20, so yeah.

40:08

All us,

40:09

Once client had 50 types of foundation contouring started and she was trying to explain to me why she had and yeah.

40:15

Like I, yeah, still don't but still she's still my client

40:22

Better about, we

40:23

All have flip, flip, have my mine cause got flips

40:35

Colors. Well at least you you're outta from here. I mean, if you're living in the UK, I'll be like, okay, you're gonna go.

40:39

You're gonna wear those for the five day heat waves. And that's it at least you them every day.

40:43

So

40:44

I, I wear'em for work and everything, so yeah. But yeah, we all have our thing.

40:47

You, we have a thing as well. You can tell me later,<laugh>

40:50

I wanted to ask you about books sort of books that have meant something to you and that sort of shaped a bit of how you live.

40:55

And of course you've got a book as well, which is fantastic, which is, can we find it in five seconds?

41:00

I mean, tell us about this book and tell us what it's gonna do for us.

41:03

And then if you've got any others that you'd like to recommend, please do,

41:05

It's gonna get you organized. So it's based on my podcast.

41:09

So on my episode, so the key bits from it and key rooms in your house.

41:13

So it's, I mean, it's the first one. So I was wanted to give the top tips.

41:16

So the buy two get rid of one mini decluttering and all these other tips that I give.

41:21

And I also talk about like zoning in your kitchen.

41:25

Cause you've got zones in your kitchen, which people don't realize.

41:27

So they put like, cery next to the cooker instead of your cooking stuff.

41:31

And next to dishwasher should be the cery and there should be a coffee station and stuff like that.

41:36

So I make it so having it in the it, and it, you know, it's easier.

41:43

So I had it online and people didn't want it online.

41:46

Wanted a physical still. So the physical coming out soon.

41:51

Oh brilliant. Great. Yeah, no, you can't be, I'm a huge, oh, that's actually something that I have a lot of books.

41:55

I'm always reading. I read a lot, but then I have a library outside my house.

41:58

So I try to sort of, as soon as I've read them, I to friends or I put them in the library,

42:02

So, oh, that's good. Yeah. Yeah, because that's a big problem here that this, of where to give it and take it and value is it's very difficult to anything.

42:11

People just don't value secondhand stuff.

42:13

So that's the other issue. So I, up giving things away all time for just can't selling so books, I like so things he's Aoke, it's on how to get organized, especially there's a set of systems.

42:33

So he's got a whole proper system of doing it, which I did do it at the beginning when I first started doing it.

42:40

Um, but you don't have to do it completely, but it does help with certain things.

42:45

Like having things say emails, come in, what you do with the emails, how you, so I find that.

42:51

Yeah. So he's really good. And he's a lovely, lovely blog.

42:54

So yeah, he was just, he was like meeting your, like an idol, you know, an organizing idol.

43:00

Another one is Tony za. Who's a grumpy old man.

43:04

Love Tony.

43:05

Yeah. I met him when, in my first job in London, 20 years ago, he came in to talk about, I think it was this book actually.

43:12

So he does mind mapping and I am all for mind mapping and doing mind maps.

43:18

I've done it for work. I've done it. My business plan was a mind map.

43:22

My vision board is a mind map. I, I mind map all the time.

43:26

If I'm coming up with ideas, I'll sit, I have a book just for mind mapping from paper and it's amazing.

43:32

It's great. And it's really good for revising, you know, when you're studying.

43:35

So I did that when I was doing my solicited degree as well.

43:38

I did a mind map, so I highly recommend him.

43:41

He's super guy. He came to, um, the Emirates lip Fest many years ago now I think maybe 10 years ago.

43:45

And he was such a super guy, just a real gentleman.

43:49

And yeah, obviously he's got a brain like a planet and just was, but, but he did a lot of stuff with kids.

43:54

It's not like he does kids' mind mapping as well. And that he, he was very warm and, and all his stuff just made such great sense.

44:00

Fantastic.

44:01

Yeah. He was lovely. Then I met him times, four times every time he around ill him London or, and was so it was hilarious.

44:15

<laugh> but

44:17

Yeah, everyone has off day

44:27

Nonfiction ones and favorite book suitable, big crime set.

44:32

Such a great book.

44:33

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird because my ancestry is Indian, but we don't call ourselves Indian because I'm from, we were born and grow up in UK and my parents are from east Africa.

44:41

So we're two generations away from being Indian.

44:45

So it's funny that I, I love a book about India so much, but it makes me feel at peace when I read it, even though it's huge and takes forever to read, but I love

44:54

It. Oh, amazing. Yeah. It's quite a big book, isn't it?

44:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They made it into a movie as well.

44:59

I do remember watching the movie as well. I'm

45:02

It was, but it's

45:08

Best never. Thanks for sharing.

45:11

Um, and I just wanna end with like one big question really, which is, why do you think we're here?

45:15

Why do you think we're here on a

45:17

That's so deep? It's so deep. I think we are here just to experience life that because Ella or God, whoever you believe in has brought us here to experience it, like they made it.

45:30

So you have to experience it and to do good.

45:33

I think that's the thing to help others, um, as much as possible to experience and see the world that they created.

45:40

Cause it's so amazing and

45:41

Cool, brilliant, fantastic point to end on.

45:44

I agree wholeheartedly. Um, and thank you so much for your time.

45:47

This is such an interesting conversation. Um, I really appreciate your sort of practical tips and then also the sort of more interesting stuff about not more interesting, but the as interesting part of sort of how it impacts us psychologically anding is so important.

45:59

So

46:04

Really enjoyed,

46:07

Thanks so much for listening to the good intentions podcast, you links to issues and to books that we discussed in the show notes, and you can look for the podcast on Instagram.

46:16

It's good intentions, UAE. Please do make sure you subscribe to the podcast.

46:20

And if you enjoyed this conversation, I'd so appreciate a review on whatever platform you're using.

46:25

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