0:02

Welcome to good intentions, the podcast where we explore the world around us to find meaning and intention in what we do.

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I'm Kelly Harvard, and I'm on a mission to spread positive stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful and connected life.

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On this episode, I had a super conversation with Aaliyah Raja.

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Aah is a personal and professional development coach, a corporate trainer, a podcast host an entrepreneur and founder of coaching with Aliyah.

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She helps people develop the range of skills they need to maximize their potential, which obviously I couldn't wait to hear more about, we talked about changing our lifestyle and our habits, how organizations need to change and evolve post COVID at the confidence gap between men and women.

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Fascinating stuff. Eli says have big goals, have wonderful relationships, have huge amounts of success in your life.

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But unless you're also dedicating yourself to knowing who you are, knowing what you want and nurturing the relationship you have with yourself, you will end up feeling empty and disconnected, no matter how many boxes you tick that look impressive to other people.

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Alia gave lots of practical tips about how to stay connected to what's important to you, how to succeed at work and at home.

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And she gave me lots of food for thought about how we classify success in our lives.

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I hope you enjoy the conversation. Thanks

1:14

So much for joining me today. We're really happy to have you on the podcast.

1:17

Thank you so much for having me, Kelly. I'm really excited to be here.

1:20

Super and yeah, you've got so much experience that I really wanna dive into.

1:24

I promise not to treat this as a personal therapy session, we'll, uh, cover off hopeful things that will be useful for other people as well.

1:29

So, um, I'm really interested in your coaching. What do people come to you for in the main what's their main reason when they turn up, when they ring you, when they email you, when they sit in front of you, what's driving them to come and see

1:38

You. Yeah. So the people that come to me, they are, they're many professionals and they're very high team professionals.

1:45

They're pretty much middle to senior management.

1:48

And really what they want to do is work on building the interpersonal and interpersonal skills to help them get to that next level.

1:55

So they're kind of at that place usually where they're like, you know, I've done well so far, but I got some blocks.

2:00

I've got some barriers. I dunno how to take it to that next level.

2:03

You know, what are my blind spots? And so usually that's around like confidence.

2:07

So they want help in building their self confidence.

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They want to be able to become a more effective communicator, you know, build their emotional intelligence.

2:15

And so these are the areas it's usually one area in particular that they come to me for.

2:20

But then what we do is, and the funny thing about this is I think when we go to look for support for something, it's often something we're already putting our attention on already.

2:30

So what I mean by that is let's say they come to me for, Hey, I really want to build my confidence in my career already.

2:36

They're putting, putting a lot of attention in their career. So when we have that initial call, what we do is we delve into their life as a whole, because I'm a personal and professional development coach.

2:46

So what we find is actually they're like, Hmm, yeah, my kind of health and fitness is kind of off right now.

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My relationships are on the back burner right now.

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You know, my self love and self-care is at the bottom.

2:56

So I kind of give them that insight. And then we more of a holistic approach and try to get them to have more a balance in their lives.

3:03

Okay. Interesting. And I mean, it sounds like you have to be kind of quite self-aware to come to you.

3:07

Like it's not, not necessarily like thinking I have a problem, but maybe I have a blockage.

3:11

I mean, and, and I can imagine that a lot of people's egos get in the way, I mean, what drives someone to do that, then that you have to be very self-aware or have they had something pointed out to them, like you need to work on this or are people just realizing this on their own?

3:21

Yeah, I think, and that's a good point. It's like, you dunno what you dunno.

3:25

Right. And I think it's not always an initial, I think people don't always reach out initially when there's one thing that they're experiencing or, but I think some, a lot of time people get to a point where they're finding these repeated patterns.

3:38

So like repeated conflict at work, or they keep getting overlooked for opportunities at work or things just, you know, they're just annoyed that they're continuously blocking themselves.

3:48

And again, I think really people are becoming more software people are, I think, especially since the pandemic, people are really taking the time to learn more about themselves and reflecting and, you know, watching videos, listening to podcasts, you know, following motivational people on, on social media.

4:04

And so it's from kind of consuming that content that they start to realize, you know, what their blocks are.

4:10

And I think it's one thing to kind of watch a video on YouTube, listen to a podcast or go to a talk, which are all really great things.

4:17

But I think that's the first step. I think, you know, you can do those things, but then when you actually need help in the how, okay, well, how do I apply this to my life?

4:25

That's when people think, you know, what I really benefit from having a coach.

4:28

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I'm interested in what you say about COVID as well.

4:31

Cause I can remember sort of post COVID. I think there was some research, I think it was out of Harvard or one of the great, you know, great research Stanford or something.

4:38

And it was saying that sort of the post COVID consumer was becoming more grateful, sort of more, more empathetic.

4:43

And, but then it kind of swung back and then people that was kind of a temporary thing.

4:46

I mean, do you think people are sort of staying in this space now?

4:49

I think it's really encouraging what you're saying. That people are becoming more reflective and, and wanting to grow.

4:54

Do you think that's here to stay? Do you, do you get that sense from your clients?

4:57

I do, because I kinda think that, you know, once you've opened this door for yourself, you know, once you've seen better, it's kind of hard to unsee it.

5:06

So for example, once you start to develop this self awareness or you start to develop practices in your life, or you start to realize that, Hey, you know what I am in control, I do have power to, to make shifts in my life, make a positive impact in my life.

5:21

You know, that can become quite addictive almost. So like, Hey, you know, I can do this.

5:25

And so it's just really continuing on from there.

5:28

I mean, if you look at, for example, the great resignation that we're going through right now, you know, this is a result of people being like, Hey, you know what, I, I want something different.

5:38

And I think this is all linked to, you know, self-awareness, it's from learning that, Hey, you know what, I can possibly do something on my own or this isn't the culture for me.

5:45

People have got to know their values themselves more.

5:47

So I think we are actually moving in a more positive direction, I guess it can swing both, you know, back and forth both ways.

5:53

But I think on the whole people are moving in in that direction.

5:56

Oh, that's great. That's music to my ears. Yeah. I find that really encouraging.

6:00

Um, and I love that you mentioned the great resignation as well. So I mean, are you, I get the feeling that there's, there's so much you can do on yourself.

6:05

Right. So, you know, I, I could work on these blocks. I can work on these, you know, these negative patterns that I'm doing, but if I'm in the wrong environment, like you were mentioning values, like if I'm working in an environment, for example, that doesn't align with my values.

6:15

Like that is just never, like, there's only so far I can take it, you know, I can try and operate in my way, but I mean, are you seeing that you're almost coaching people out of their jobs and into new jobs?

6:25

Or is that coming up at all

6:26

A hundred percent? It really is.

6:29

Yeah. I mean, if you think of it, you know, I kind of like to use the flower analogy of, you know, if a flower, you know, you have a plant and if the plant in the flower isn't blooming, you know, do we blame the flower and say, Hey, look at it.

6:41

It's not, you know, growing or do we, what do we do?

6:43

We look at the environment. We look at, you know, the sunlight, the water, how much we're nurturing it.

6:48

And so when the work I do with my clients is very much about their mindsets, their habits, their lifestyle practices and their environments, because yeah, as you rightly said, you can do all the inner work, all the reflections.

6:59

But if you constantly have like a toxic boss that isn't listening to you, you know, you can develop all the empathy, all the emotional intelligence, but if you're constantly having that, or you're in a workplace where the motivation morale is so low, that's very, very hard for you to be upbeat, you know, to motivate other people.

7:17

So yeah. You know, a few of my clients, yes, they, they actually are jumping ship right now.

7:21

I've, I've seen it quite a few times. They're jumping ship. So I've been helping them with interview skills and they've actually been successful and then new roles, which is incredible.

7:28

So right now there's a couple that have started new roles, a couple others who are applying for new roles and even others who are starting businesses on the side.

7:37

So that's other, that's something else as well. People are like, you know what?

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I have all these skills, this is something I'm passionate about.

7:42

Why not explore starting a business. Wow.

7:44

That's amazing. Do you think employers are kind of listening to this as well?

7:48

Because I kind of see, I, I spoke to, um, Dr.

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Yasa jar. He's the great guy. He, um, advised check Mohamed.

7:54

Um, he worked in the executive office and, um, he was saying to me, you know, 20 years ago when I interviewed people, they were, you know, they were all about the package and the health insurance, but now they're actually saying like, what's the work life balance?

8:05

Like how many days vacation? Like what, what's the culture, like, people are asking much more, you know, sort of, sort of deep questions about their working environment than they weren't before.

8:13

I mean, do you think employers are ready for this? Are they starting to listen and change?

8:17

Like what's the situation out there with, with corporates and, and with the work environment,

8:21

It depends on the organization.

8:23

It depends on the sector. It depends on how new the company is.

8:27

I think the companies that have been established for a longer amount of time, the bigger organizations, they're a lot slower in that aspect.

8:33

Of course, there's just so much red tape. There's a lot more that's involved in terms of making these changes.

8:39

I think the intention is there. People are trying, but whether it's having a big impact, I think there's still a lot of work to do.

8:46

But from what I can see, the newer companies like the startups, you know, the ones that are very much wanting to employ people who are, you know, innovative, they're driven, looking at values.

8:55

They are very much focusing on these things, because like you said, now we're getting to a point where it's not just about, I need this job.

9:02

People are in a position where they're also interviewing the company and saying, well, why should I work for you?

9:08

Why would I want to come and work for your organization?

9:10

And, you know, the competition is there in the sense that you might not be providing these sort of perk for people in terms of remote working, flexible working, but another company will.

9:20

So you Def they're definitely, you know, taking this into consideration, I'm seeing move, um, a change in that sense.

9:25

Yeah. I think you're right. I feel hopeful about this. I feel that like, like you say, the intention is there.

9:30

I mean, and it's so interesting what you were saying about like you are interviewing the company.

9:33

So I recently interviewed someone and um, they asked me what the CSR policy was, you know, like, what do you do?

9:39

Like not you as an individual. What do you do as a company to give, like, how are you serving?

9:43

And I was like, wow, great question.

9:46

Like, how are we serving? And it's not anymore about coming in.

9:48

And like, I give you my time and you give me the money and it's this transactional something it's like, what are we doing?

9:53

Like, what is our purpose here? And I think this is coming through more and more, which, you know, everyone's been talking about a lot over recent years, but I think it's really coming to the forefront now.

10:00

And I loved that. I got asked that question. It, like, that's never been asked that before ever in like years and years of interviewing people.

10:06

So yeah.

10:07

It's good to asked. It's good to be challenged as well. Right. It's kinda like people like you.

10:11

Yeah. Come and challenge me and asking these questions.

10:14

Cause then I was like, you know, do you know what actually, yeah, I know some, I know some things, but now you are giving me the seed that I'm gonna go, like, let me find out what we are doing and if, what is it, what we're doing enough and is it aligned with what everybody wants to do?

10:24

You know, there's like, there's all these questions that then come out of it and you know, what is our strategy?

10:27

And does everybody understand that? And yeah, we had just a really interesting sort of conversation about it, which I loved,

10:32

But I wanted to add to that and say, you know, you were very open to that question and being challenged and being asked that question, I recently wrote an article and this is for Arabian business where I talked about confidence as leaders and why it's so important as a leader to have confidence in yourself.

10:49

And this is one of the reasons because if you, as a leader, don't have self confidence, let's say someone comes to the organization and they're in a junior level to you and they start asking you these questions and they start challenging you and making you think in a different way, if you don't have that confidence, you can easily feel threatened.

11:06

You could easily be like, oh, actually, mm.

11:09

Yeah. I, I don't like that this person is asking me something or making me think, I think they should be sticking, you know, to their role.

11:14

And so that is also something I think you are very open.

11:17

And I think that is very important. Having the openness within an organization, people to bring ideas and not be very fixed on a hierarchy of like, well, I'm your boss.

11:24

You kind of do what I tell you. And that's it do your role?

11:27

Cause people don't wanna just be doing a role and put in a box nowadays.

11:30

No, definitely not. And you know, how can we kind of evolve and grow?

11:33

And how can you kind of, how can you empower people if you don't allow them to be part of the decision making process and bring things to the table and yeah, having that more of a sort of flat structure where everybody's opinion is welcomed and you know, it doesn't, these opinions don't have to come from the top.

11:47

It's, you know, suggestions. It's, it's ridiculous to think that they only ever would all for that kind of approach.

11:52

And I'd love to know a bit more about, I mean, obviously you coach men and you coach women, like are the issues that, that pop up, are they sometimes gendered women facing what are the differences between the, the issues and the challenges that women face and that men face?

12:04

Cause I imagine some of them are quite different. Maybe some of them are the same.

12:07

So I'd love to know more about that.

12:08

Yeah, I think so there's a few things for one, definitely.

12:12

I mean, we are seeing a slow shift, but for one, I think, you know, women are just more open to talking about these things, you know, just generally as women, we do talk about, you know, our feelings when we do, we, it's more natural for us to, you know, when we talk to our friends, our support network to talk about, um, what we're going through.

12:29

So for men, it, it does take a few more steps.

12:32

It is harder for them to acknowledge that maybe this is a blog, this is a gap.

12:37

And to have that conversation really take that it's a much bigger step for a man to kind of reach out than a woman.

12:42

That's what I've noticed for sure. However, I see from men when they do start to open up, they really have these like they're very vulnerable.

12:51

I, so for example, when I run, I do group coaching sessions and I run workshops.

12:55

Often the men are very vulnerable, the most, even more vulnerable than the women in the room, which is really great to see.

13:01

So I feel like, you know, sometimes it's harder for them to take that initial step, but when they do and they given that safe space, they really just come out and share and open.

13:09

It's almost like it's liberating, you know, say, wow, holding onto this, I, you know, want to share this.

13:15

And as they have that sort of great thing breakthrough, but when we talk about, you know, the differences, I mean, there's, there's a lot of research now showing the confidence gap between men and women, you know, specialize in confidence.

13:26

So this is something that I see a lot. So for example, as women, I, you might have heard of the famous HP study when it talks about applying for a job, you know, it shows that men will apply for a job when they meet 60% of the criteria.

13:39

Whereas women will apply when they meet a hundred percent of the criteria.

13:43

So this really just highlights. You know, it's not a lack of competency at all when it comes to women, but it's a lack of confidence as women.

13:51

We have much higher standards and think, well, unless I meet all the criteria, I'm not good enough for the job.

13:56

It's crazy that that statistic, it blows my mind every time.

13:59

It's just unbelievable. Isn't it? I think Cheryl Sandberg mentioned references it a couple of times in he book clean in and yeah.

14:05

It stayed with me ever since that piece of

14:07

Research. Yeah. And I think it just it's really, really well.

14:10

I, I talk about this one a lot because it just highlights really what the difference is.

14:13

Whereas you see, men are just more likely to just kind of wing it and say, well, I've got nothing to lose.

14:19

Like just apply for it. Whereas women it's like, we don't wanna put ourselves or women in the whole don't wanna put themselves in a position where they'll get rejected.

14:26

So it's like, I, no, unless I meet a hundred percent, I don't want to apply.

14:30

And so the, there really is of confidence, you know, a gap, a gap in that sense, in the sense.

14:34

So it's not about competencies about confidence, women, um, are a lot more, you know, humble in a sense like women, I see hold themselves back from building the confidence because they're so concerned with coming across as arrogance.

14:46

And of course, I mean, this is probably another conversation, but I think also as women, we don't do each other favors as well.

14:50

In that sense, when we see a confident woman who's being bold speaking her opinion, I don't think as women, we uplift each other as much as a man was men do to each other.

15:00

So that's kind of the other thing, that's one of the barriers. So, you know, that's one thing I see, you know, women in terms of self-esteem and men and self-esteem women are a lot more likely to get, you know, gain their self-esteem from, you know, externally.

15:10

So looking for validation from other people, gaining that approval, seeing what other people think of them, whereas men are more likely to develop that, you know, self-esteem internally.

15:19

So these are some of the things that I see, uh, on top of that as well.

15:22

You know, I do work with quite a few moms and of course, being a mom has, you know, so through so many challenges and the sense of like, there's so many hats that you wear, women just find themselves, of course, growing more hats and juggling the work life balance, like being a mom and even being a mom.

15:38

What happens with moms is that themselves like them as a, as a woman just ends up falling to the bottom of the list, you know, their self care, their self love.

15:46

And so it's really, whereas obviously men don't have the say obviously of being a father.

15:50

Of course it has an impact, but not as much as a mom because obviously yeah, it's completely different.

15:55

So it's really with moms is helping them to transition back into getting to know themselves and, and transitioning into this new identity as a mom and coming back to themselves.

16:05

So these are a few of the things that I see between, you know, men and women.

16:08

Yeah. Hard, hard relate to the mom thing as a working mom, myself.

16:12

I mean, yeah, I think we don't do ourselves any favors.

16:14

And I think the guilt thing is a really difficult one.

16:17

Like I have a up and down relationship with it.

16:19

Sometimes it's better than others, but this is just something that does not enter my husband's head.

16:23

And he's a great man and he's a great father. I'm not a better parent than him, but I carry a lot of guilt about, you know, I dunno whether I miss a bedtime or I can't do that work event or I can't travel to that place because we can't both travel at the same time.

16:34

Like, you know, sometimes I've mentioned this before I've said to him on occasion, you know, do you ever worry whether or not you're a good parent and it's literally like, I've just spoken Chinese and my head's just swiveled around.

16:43

He's just like, of course I never question that I'm a great parent.

16:46

I'm like, okay. You know, men just don't in the main, I'm sure.

16:49

You know, it's a stereotype, but in the main men just don't question it.

16:52

So women are kind of carrying around all this guilt. I mean, do you have any advice for women who are kind of carrying this guilt about sort of juggling everything and never quite getting anything?

16:59

Right. How can we kind of let go of that?

17:01

Yeah. Mom, guilt is huge. Really, really, really huge.

17:05

And I feel something I see with moms is that, you know, moms, most incredible moms doing everything, but you just constantly feel like you are not doing enough.

17:13

You're not being good enough. You're not a good mom.

17:16

And I think it's kind of, again, coming back to like the validation piece, is that, what are you waiting for?

17:21

What do you need to feel like you're a good mom, you know, for example, like your husband, he just gave himself that reassurance.

17:26

He's like, yep. I know. I, you know, like that, where did that come from?

17:30

That just came from his own belief. So for one thing, I think what I see with moms a lot is, is comparison.

17:35

You know, looking at other moms, it looks so much easier for her.

17:39

Like she's doing everything, you know?

17:41

So I think just try and monitor how much you are comparing yourselves to other people for one, cause that is having a huge impact and remind yourself that, you know, you are doing the best you can, you know, you are absolutely doing the best you can.

17:54

And I think one thing as well, when you feel a certain way is when you are feel down, you feel a lot of pressure stress it's often because you are so giving to everyone and everything else apart from yourself.

18:05

So start to like even fill up your cup a little bit, you know, start to do things for yourself that make you feel good because that in itself is going to build your self confidence as a woman.

18:15

And so when you build your confidence as a woman, you'll help you to build your confidence as a mom as well.

18:19

So I think just remind yourself every day, you can even acknowledge and think about the things you're feeling grateful for today, or think about, you know, these moments that you had with your child each day to show that you are doing a great job.

18:30

Yeah. That's super advice. Yeah. It's, it's um, it's never ending and yeah.

18:34

Always gonna be a challenge, I think. Yeah. Constant work and progress on that front.

18:37

So you talked about the confidence gap, which really interests me.

18:40

And you know, I'm kind of interested in how women in particular, like for example, how can women build their visibility at work?

18:46

So, you know, you mentioned you don't wanna risk looking pushy or, you know, am ambition.

18:50

I mean, Cheryl Sandberg, again, talks about this a lot.

18:52

You know, women don't wanna look ambitious. It's not a nice trait.

18:55

You know, you don't wanna be called a ballbuster or, you know, not all these, all these kind of nasty words that kind of applied very specifically to women.

19:01

So how can women sort of build their visibility and push themselves forward when that's really not in their comfort zone necessarily at all, for all sorts of reasons.

19:09

First of all, just before you even take action is, is get clear on why it's important for you to be noticed.

19:16

Now, something you'll hear me say a lot is that, you know, nowadays it's just not enough to have a great degree, you know, from even from a great university, it's not enough to be great at your job and have the skills, the technical skills, the knowledge, or even be the hardest working person in the office.

19:31

You absolutely need to be noticed.

19:34

You need to develop the skills to be seen, to be noticed because you know where humans were emotional creatures, we're going to remember people based on, you know, what we see how they make us feel.

19:45

So really it's not just about, yes, of course, you've gotta build the technical skills at work, but you've also alongside that, got develop your skills in terms of like your communication skills, your leadership skills, your emotional intelligence, so that you will be noticed.

19:57

And when you are noticed, you'll then put forward for opportunities.

20:01

You know, when people see you, they like, you they'll they'll want to meet, you they'll want to listen to, you they'll want to, you know, help you to progress.

20:07

So that's the first thing is getting really clear on your, why, you know, how are you currently holding yourself back?

20:13

That is, that will help you to get clear on your, why, you know, how is you holding yourself back, impacting your workplace.

20:20

Maybe other people are taking credit for your ideas, which happens a lot, a lot, a lot.

20:24

I see. So you've gotta ask yourself the question of like, well, if I don't do anything about this, what impact is this gonna have on me in the next two years, five years.

20:33

So get, ask yourself that difficult question first, because it's really your, why that's your driving force to start making changes.

20:40

So that's the first thing. And then the second thing is also being aware that you know, whatever's going on for you internally will be reflected on the outside.

20:48

So if you are constantly lacking confidence within yourself, you don't feel you are good enough.

20:51

You don't think you're worthy to be sitting at that table.

20:55

Then that is what is going to be coming back to you.

20:58

Unfortunately, you know, you will get overlooked.

21:00

People probably won't have trust in you to do a great job because that's literally the energy that you're putting out.

21:07

Some message you're sending out there and subconsciously people are picking up on that.

21:10

So working on your mindset, working on building up your self-esteem, your self work, your confidence of like, Hey, I am good.

21:17

I am confident. I do deserve to be here.

21:19

So working on your mindset, becoming your own best friend, becoming your own cheerleader, you know, before a meeting at the start of every day and get out of your comfort zone, you know, if you just keep doing the same thing all the time and just, you know, as Einstein says, expecting the same results, you know, that that's the definition of insanity.

21:38

So you have to be prepared to get uncomfortable and to step out of your comfort zone.

21:43

So for example, in a meeting, you are sitting there, you want to say something, but you're not your, should I, should I just say it, speak up, push yourself.

21:51

And the more you do it, the easier it'll become the hardest part about this all is getting started.

21:56

And so once you do it, once it will become easier and preparation, you know, going into a meeting, prepare for that meeting.

22:02

Think about what you're gonna say. Um, have some notes, have some questions, cause that is really gonna help your confidence.

22:08

Don't just go into meetings, blindly, you know, have some things so that, you know, it's like, right, okay, this is a productive meeting.

22:14

This is good. And the next point I would say is really put your focus on building and nurturing relationships.

22:20

I honestly think that's the best thing you can do. I think we should underestimate the power of our network.

22:27

And so one thing you can do in the workplace is, you know, get to know other people, build those relationships, build the relationship with your manager and your boss.

22:35

That's something very powerful that you can do.

22:37

So work on the relationships to get, be noticed that way.

22:40

So people see you.

22:41

Yeah. And I think that often gets overlooked. Doesn't it? I love, um, that's one of the things that, um, this is Sally Hellison's, there's a book called how women rise and it's this 13 things that women do that hold themselves back.

22:50

And one of them is just kind of assuming that everybody knows that you do a good job because you know, I come into work every day and I'm here and I, I, I do everything that's asked of me and I do it with a great energy and a whole heart.

23:00

And everyone must just know that I'm great. Actually, people don't know cuz they're doing their own jobs and they've got all their own pressures that they're dealing with.

23:06

So they might not notice you in the corner or at the event or whatever.

23:09

So you have to tell people and that doesn't always come so easily to women.

23:13

Does it? Cuz we don't want, you know, we kind of from, well, that's a whole set of conversation, but you know, from in the patriarchal side society, in which we live, you know, we're told from quite small age, you know, don't shout about how great you are.

23:22

Don't tell people how brilliant you are. It doesn't, don't be pushy.

23:24

Don't do this. Don't do that. So, um, yeah, I think that's really interesting about the networking and I love the practical advice.

23:29

So that was great. Thank you.

23:31

There just one more, one more tip as well on that. I mean you can volunteer, you can put yourself forward, you don't have to wait, you know, don't be reactive and just wait for opportunities to come to you.

23:42

So one of my clients, she actually, she attended my emotional intelligence workshop a few weeks back and then she just wanted to give a presentation on emotional intelligence to her team.

23:51

And she's someone who really struggles with public speaking and putting herself out there.

23:56

So this was huge for her to do.

23:58

I mean, as it really got her out, out of her comfort zone and it was huge win for her.

24:02

So that was awesome. Not only one that she builds her presentation skills, her confidence, but she just volunteered.

24:08

And that's a great image. That's a great look in the organization to show that you are giving back, you're giving value.

24:12

And of course you had great feedback and that will be left in people's minds.

24:16

So, you know, just think outside the box, how can I be proactive?

24:20

Yeah, love it. So there was a quote that you said, which I absolutely loved, which I wanted to chat to you about.

24:24

So you said, um, have big goals, have wonderful relationships, have huge amounts of success in your life, but unless you're also dedicating yourself to knowing who you are, knowing what you want and nurturing the relationship you have with yourself, you will feel up, end up feeling empty and disconnected, no matter how many boxes you tick that look impressive to other people.

24:41

So I mean, how can we nurture that relationship with ourselves?

24:44

You know, where do we start?

24:46

So I truly believe, you know, you can either be your own best friend or your own west enemy.

24:52

And the one that you choose will have a huge impact on the outcomes of your life.

24:57

You've really got to be conscious about this decision.

24:59

Like, do I want to be my own best friend and cheerleader? Or am I going to continuously be, you know, horrible to myself, put myself down, get in my own way.

25:06

So yeah, when I talk about, you know, this it's that we we're so focused on like the outside now the outside checklist, like yeah, I should, you know, have a good job, be a house, get married, have kids, cetera, cetera, cetera, and, or look good, but we can get so focused on those.

25:22

We're not, I mean, all those things are great by the way I always say yes and I look after yourself, look great, go on holiday travel.

25:28

Like, yes, those things are really good for your wellbeing.

25:31

But if you are not alongside that in parallel nurturing your inner wellbeing, something will fill off.

25:37

So what I like to do whenever I start working with someone is, is essentially doing what I like to call a declutter, which is first of all, instead of jumping to what can I change?

25:46

Just ask yourself the question of, well, what's the stuff right now in my life.

25:50

That's just not serving me. What's getting in the way.

25:52

And that could be, yeah, for example, your environment that could be, you're constantly giving time to things that you, that really aren't serving you right now.

26:01

Maybe that's like socially or you're not spending time with the best people.

26:04

You're spending too much time on social media, just things right now, like start to do a declutter.

26:10

So that's one thing and then ask yourself of like, how can I kind of reduce some of those things in my life?

26:15

So that's a really, really great start. And then, I mean, there's just loads on there.

26:19

So thinking like where do I even start? But I think that's a good start.

26:22

And then I think starting to be aware of your mindset, like what are the words you're saying to yourself every day?

26:26

That's the second part I'd say, is that catch yourself?

26:30

Like, don't just let the convers the, my, your, your conversations in your mind just run, catch yourself.

26:35

When you are saying something negative about yourself and say, Hey, Hey, Hey, like stop that.

26:41

That's really unfair. Why am I treating myself this way?

26:44

Why am I speaking to myself in this way? I don't deserve this.

26:47

And in that moment, just say, Hey, I choose not to, to speak to myself like this.

26:50

If you can then say something, you know, more empowering after.

26:53

Great. But on the whole, if you can't get to that stage initially, just say, no, I'm not gonna speak to myself.

26:57

Like this

26:58

Definitely need to implement that in my own life. You made a comment once about, you know, you were a very high achiever from a young age and you felt like you weren't good enough.

27:06

And I wonder sort of where did that come from? And then more importantly, like, how did you ever come it because I speak to so many people who were so capable, very often, women who have this terrible imposter syndrome, you know, whatever, whether it's their work and event, whatever.

27:18

And I just said, gosh, you know, how, how can you have imposter syndrome?

27:21

But obviously it's very common. So yeah. Tell us about where yours came from and then how you managed to get a grip on it.

27:26

It's very common. And I think imposter syndrome, you know, is actually more common in people who are high achievers.

27:32

So yeah, like you said, you'd assume that people who are, you know, doing very well, they kind of, they see that they own that accept that, but actually it's more common in people who are doing well and what they do for me.

27:42

I mean, I think it's a number of things I think naturally I think coming from like a south Asian background, you know, we are just brought up to just study, study, study<laugh>, you know, study, work, work, work, you know, very much like, you know, my parents, you know, you need to study, you need to get good grades.

27:56

So, you know, obviously my parents are amazing. They did an incredible job, but I think you can easily kind of get that association with your self worth being, being tied to your achievements.

28:08

And I did go to a school. It was the kind of school where, you know, it was a high achievement school.

28:13

And so the pressure, I mean the standard of what they expected is a lot was very high.

28:18

And so, although I was actually like an a grade student, I often felt very stupid at school because, you know, I wasn't like getting all a stars, for example, like I did well, but I wasn't an Oxbridge candidate.

28:28

So that's kind of, what's the environment that I was around.

28:31

And so, yeah, I think that was kind of, you know, ingrained in me now, just highlight this as well, is that this kind of pressure and you know, it can go two ways to these kind of feelings have often the driving force to do really well.

28:44

So, you know, you look at people for example, who are very successful and they Haven imposed syndrome, but it's because of that, that they didn't feel good enough.

28:51

That's driven them to where they get.

28:53

They are now, there is something positive in it.

28:56

However, obviously the danger lies when you never get to that point where you do then see how great you are and what you've achieved.

29:03

So it can't just be only that if I'm not feeling good enough, I'm not good enough.

29:08

I need to keep striving. You need to develop the balance between yes, I need to do well.

29:12

I want to do well. I have my goals, but then also acknowledging how far you've come, you know, and the great qualities you have.

29:20

So when it comes to imposter syndrome and imposter syndrome, is that feeling that, you know, you are a fraud and I even had this, you know, cuz I worked my way out very quickly.

29:29

I got to a senior level within my team at the age of 24.

29:33

So I had massive imposter syndrome. I was just like, I shouldn't be here.

29:37

How am I here? People are gonna think that I shouldn't be here.

29:40

All these kinds of thoughts that were going on for my mind, I then left, you know, I started my own business then at 26 and I was like, people are gonna think, what does she know?

29:49

You know, how is she a coach? How can she, you know, guide us, advise us all of that in there.

29:55

But then it's really, I had to then coach myself through it and be like, well actually there is a reason why I've got to where I've got to now.

30:05

So people can see it externally, but it's not enough if you don't see it internally.

30:09

So I really had to, you know, so you have to actually write down a list.

30:12

I get my clients to write down, you know, what are 20 things that they've achieved?

30:15

What are 20 great qualities that they have?

30:19

And a lot of the times, you know, they really struggle with, you know, what are 10 great qualities you have?

30:24

And I say some, OK, if I say, tell me 10 things you don't like about yourself, I'll be like, oh I can do that.

30:30

Yeah. Hate this about myself. I hate this. I hate this.

30:33

Yeah. Because you're so used to focusing on those things you need to now put your focus into recognizing the great things you've done or the achievements that you've made, even the feedback, you know, I always say like, like create a folder in your emails of positive feedback that you've received.

30:49

So you can look back on that. Yeah. You can look back on.

30:52

It's a great one. And you know, when you have those days and we all have those days where we feel like I'm not, should I just give up?

30:58

I'm not good at this. I can't do this anymore.

31:01

Open up that folder and just be like, okay, you know what?

31:05

This is, okay. I'm good enough for this. I am great at what I do.

31:07

This is what I'm supposed to do. So it's creating these little tools for yourself.

31:11

Yeah. Which it takes a lot of work to sort of undo this programming.

31:14

Right. That you've, you know, you've got from all different areas of your life and know whether it's as a child at school, like you were saying, if you're in a high pressure environment, parents.

31:22

So yeah. Just take quite a lot of work to kind of reprogram your brain and see yourself in a different light.

31:27

I mean, how long do you think it takes people? I mean, is, is this a long journey that a lot of your clients have to go on?

31:31

Can you not saying, can you fix it in a couple sessions?

31:33

It's not really one game, but you know, like, is this part of a journey that they're always gonna be on to kind of keep self correcting?

31:39

So yeah. What makes to look at it is that, you know, if you've been used to speaking to yourself in this way for, you know, years then of course it's not something that's going to happen overnight.

31:50

You know, it's not like, okay, in one day you're just like, right, okay.

31:54

I'm my own PO you know, cheerleader now, everything is positive and uplifting.

31:58

I mean, I'll be really honest with you. I've been in the personal development space now on my own personal development journey for over 10 years.

32:04

But this is something I still proactively have to work on.

32:08

You know, it's never, there's never a time where we're like, right, okay.

32:11

I've got it all figured out now. I'm great.

32:13

This is why I always emphasize that we're not striving for a destination here.

32:18

This is a journey because life constantly throws new things our way.

32:22

So for example, you know, I am someone.

32:24

Yeah. I am someone who's very ambitious. I do like to challenge myself, take things to the next level.

32:28

So naturally I'm out of my comfort zone.

32:30

Naturally. There are times where I don't feel very confident.

32:33

And so then of course like the inner critic, you know, pops in, I can't do this.

32:37

I'm not good enough. Should I do this? Am I ready?

32:40

But I've learned, this is the difference is that before with my clients, they, they wouldn't be aware of it.

32:47

So before that inner critic then takes over and then your decision is like, right, okay, I'm not gonna do that.

32:52

So it's never that the, the inner critic just goes away, but you learn how to manage it.

32:57

You actually choose differently. Or you have the awareness this time.

33:01

So then now when they start to find those thoughts coming in, or they're just putting themselves down, they're just like, Hey, Hey.

33:08

And they start to say something different to themselves instead.

33:12

So I think it's natural, you know, because yes, we have ourselves, but life is gonna throw, you know, new challenges away, new opportunities, new jobs, new relationships.

33:19

And so it's yeah, something that's an ongoing process, but I, I promise it becomes easier.

33:24

That's what I can say.

33:25

Yeah. It's like a muscle, right? The more you work it, the more you can just, you know, snap back to it.

33:30

Yeah. Not just wallow in this self, despair and self and get yourself out it.

33:35

But I mean, you talk, you've kind of touched on this.

33:37

I know you talk a lot about courage and self belief.

33:39

So like where does yours come from? Is this, we've talked a bit about, you know, how you kind of build yourself up, but do you think this is something that was innately within you or have you had to learn it all?

33:48

It's a combination of things that was a time where, you know, my confidence and self-esteem was a lot lower than it is now, which is why I'm so passionate about what I do because you know, I know the impact that it has on you when you don't believe in yourself and you don't feel like you're good enough and how much it blocks you, how much it sabotages your success, you know, your relationships, you don't put yourself on for opportunities.

34:13

So it's, it's a number of things. It isn't one, it's a number of things over the years.

34:17

So for one, you know, I am lucky that, you know, I do have family that are very encouraging.

34:21

You know, they support me, they motivate me. They've always been like my cheerleader that you can do it.

34:24

You can absolutely do it, go for it, go for it, dream bigger. So I think your environment and I also, for me, this is why I realized the impact of coaching because I had my first coach back in when I was in London this about five years ago.

34:37

And I realized just how powerful coaching was.

34:40

My coach really helped to build my self confidence.

34:42

I was someone who would never put myself on social media.

34:46

Can you believe that I was never someone who that would do a video on social media and be there visible in front of people.

34:52

And he was like, you absolutely can do it. And I was like, no, I can't.

34:55

No, I won't. He was like, yes, you can. You know, he really just pushed me.

34:59

And so from that, I was like, okay, wow, I can do it.

35:03

And then, you know, I can do it again. I can do it again.

35:05

So I think from coaching and coaching is very much about, you know, ask delving into yourself, asking yourself the questions, what is blocking you, what's getting in the way.

35:14

So I think coaching was really great for me. I've always had great mentors.

35:18

Um, I, me as well, and really, I think it's, yeah, a big part is myself learning to become my own cheerleader as well, because I realize that when you sabotage yourself, uh, it has really awful outcomes.

35:29

So just let myself, so every day, like build myself up.

35:33

Sounds great. And I'm encouraged that even, you know, a coach has a coach, I like this<laugh> makes, you know, everybody, even the coaches, even people who, you know, are the experts in this are kind of leaning on an expert as well.

35:45

Yeah. Because I have my own blind spots. Right.

35:47

I have my own blind spots I can get in my own way.

35:50

So it's just in the same way that I help people together their own way.

35:53

It's like helping someone to see you and see what you are not seeing and give you that push to take things to the next level.

35:59

So, yeah, definitely.

36:00

So obviously we've come through COVID, you know, the world is in a horrible state, in many parts of the world and, you know, we're all living in really stressful times.

36:08

You know, then you're trying to hold down a job, raise family, all these things that people are dealing with.

36:11

Have you got any sort of simple practical tools that can help people to sort of say, stay grounded and, and connected to what's important to them and kind of, you know, help us navigate through this really difficult time that we're all facing at the moment.

36:23

Yeah. So we are living in a very fast paced world right now.

36:27

Everything is so fast. Life is moving very, very quickly.

36:30

We can get easily get caught up, you know, the days go so quickly the weeks, the months.

36:34

And so we have to kind of proactively make that effort to be ground, to ground ourselves basically.

36:42

And I mean, there a number of things I think, um, so, you know, grounding ourselves really is about coming back to ourselves, being in the moment, being still in the now.

36:50

And I think for each person it's looking at like what that looks like.

36:54

So for example, you know, what does your lifestyle look like right now?

36:58

You know, what are you giving so much value and emphasis to?

37:02

So for example, you know, when we talk about building, you know, spiritual practices becoming more grounded, you know, there isn't anything wrong with, for example, wanting great things in your life, even if it comes to like, you know, material things or wanting a nice lifestyle, but it's coming back to the fact that that's not going to give you that inner satisfaction, that inner contentment, I mean, don't get me wrong.

37:24

Those things definitely help. It's nice to go a nice holidays, be a nice environment, hundred percent.

37:30

I'm not gonna deny that, but that is not necessarily the answer.

37:33

It's not like I have those things and then I'm gonna get that, that contentment.

37:36

So what I find from working with my clients is that the reason why most people now don't feel that contentment is because we're very rarely living in the moments.

37:45

And so if you want to become more grounded and enjoy experience, more joy in your life, it's about learning how to be more present in each moment.

37:54

That really is where the joy comes from. Because I always say, I mean, you can be in the most beautiful island in the world, you can be at the most fun like party or RA or wherever you are.

38:04

But if you are not in the moment, if you are there and thinking about the argument you're having with your boss, or like all the things you need to do tomorrow, you are not even enjoying yourself.

38:14

You're just physically there, but mentally, somewhere else, you're not actually on the, like you're having the Best's like, but really you are not.

38:23

So it's about being present in the moment.

38:27

So like, and that can be the smallest things.

38:29

Like when you are having your lunch, don't use your phone, just be in the moment, like, you know what, I'm just gonna sit and have my lunch and sit up and, and just observe the world.

38:37

Like, let me just look around the world, let me look at the sky.

38:40

Let me allow myself to be in my thoughts and my feelings.

38:43

Like, how am I feeling right now? Don't run away from yourself constantly.

38:46

So that's one thing. And I think the second thing is, this is the hardest thing.

38:51

And this is the hardest skill that I constantly work on is patience.

38:56

You know, we constantly want things. We live in this world of like instant gratification.

39:00

We have everything instantly now that you know, the click of our fingers.

39:04

And so we are not very patient. So mastering patience is that good things take time.

39:08

We don't need everything on our checklist now.

39:11

And that's why we get so anxious because we think we should have all those things right now.

39:16

And if we're not, this there's something wrong.

39:18

Mm gosh. Yeah. That's so important. Isn't it?

39:21

Patience is a, a constant, um, that's one of my last prices, which I'm really trying to work on.

39:25

I think having a child has made me a more patient person, but it's still very much a work in progress, but I love what you said about, you know, eat your lunch and don't look at your phone.

39:32

Um, Dr. Salha from the lighthouse recently said something about, you know, when you're at the traffic lights, don't check your phone, you know, don't check your emails.

39:39

And, and she got a lot of feedback from people saying, but that's when I that's when I catch up on things.

39:43

And then that's what, and she was saying, no, just, just sit there.

39:45

And I thought, gosh, that's just, I mean, we didn't even have, we haven't always have mobile phones.

39:49

We did used to just drive around and just sit and just, and that was it.

39:52

Right? You just had the radio or, you know, a CD if you were lucky.

39:55

But yeah. Trying to bring this mindfulness into our day to day, life is kinda like quite shocking in some ways.

40:00

Well, I know, but I've gotta try and squeeze every last inch out every minute that I've got to be more efficient and get more things done.

40:06

And actually just let go of some of that, which is not easy, obviously, otherwise we would all be doing it much more regularly, but yeah, such a great piece of advice.

40:14

So how, I mean, a lot of people listening to this podcast, I mean, most people are probably gonna be working or they're trying to, you know, get a lot done in their life.

40:21

I mean, how can we try and balance all of those demands with trying to live this more spiritual life and trying to be more connected?

40:27

How can we kind of stay connected to that?

40:29

I mean, you mentioned like mindfulness being really important, but how can you kind of reconcile it with yourself?

40:33

Maybe. So I've got this very corporate job, but actually I'm a very spiritual being and I want to, how do I marry the two and, and reconcile those with myself.

40:41

First of all, I think it's making it a P because if you don't make something a priority, then it's just not gonna happen, especially for yeah.

40:48

People who work in corporate, you have a very busy schedule, very busy timetable.

40:53

If you don't sit down. And this is something I do that a lot of people is, is time management, literally helping them to schedule their lives and, and make time for more of a balance because it really, if you don't set the time for, or set the intention, everything else will take over.

41:07

So first of all, making wellbeing a priority, I think for a lot of people, they don't, it's like, no, it's just about work.

41:13

It's just about the things that I need to do. So setting that intention and then just like having what I like, the question I like to ask is, well, what does healthy mean to you?

41:23

Or what does being spiritual mean to you?

41:26

Because it means different things to different people.

41:28

And by doing that, it gets them that gets the other people to ask the que it gets you to think, well, what does it mean to me rather than me just telling you, so, you know, you can say, well, actually it's very much about eating, you know, very healthy food, being conscious about what I'm putting in my body.

41:42

It's about exercising. Yeah. You know what?

41:44

I haven't been exercising in a while. I really want to get back to the gym.

41:47

I need to do it for myself. It's about surrounding myself with good people.

41:51

So really asking yourself the question of what does like good health mean to you?

41:55

Mental health, physical health, spiritual health, and what things can you do in your life that enable you that feel good?

42:03

Is there something like a sport that you like to do?

42:06

Is there a hobby? Is there something creative that you like to do?

42:09

And when can you make time for that? So being very proactive of like, you know what, like twice, three times a week, I'm going to do it and actually put it in your diary so that you've actually, you know, blocked out that time for that for yourself.

42:21

Mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right. I've spoken to a lot of people about this that you've gotta see it almost gotta see it as a meeting or a client, or, you know, you take these things very seriously, right.

42:30

If it's work, but when it comes to ourselves, like, you know, just, okay, I'll just, I've run out of time.

42:35

So that just won't happen now. Whereas actually, you know, block it as you would any other thing that is important to you, especially when it comes to work?

42:41

So, um, yeah, I think the more we can try and do that, it's gotta be that priority.

42:44

Right. Otherwise, which is never gonna happen.

42:46

Yeah. Cause in your mind you might have an intention of yeah.

42:48

You know, I'm gonna go to this gym class tomorrow night, but then someone says, Hey, let's do this.

42:52

Or, you know, what, can you do this? And you're like, yeah, sure.

42:55

I'm free. But there's a whole different level when you've, you know, put that class in your diary, you've booked the class, you've sent the message yourself of I going.

43:05

So then you are no longer available at that time.

43:07

Well, actually I can't do that hour, but I can do it afterwards or I can do it before.

43:11

Yeah. There'll always be another team school that you can jump on.

43:13

Like you have to draw the lights somewhere. Right. <laugh> absolutely.

43:17

So you are a coach and you have your own coach, but I just I'd love to know, like, if you could be coached by anyone in the world, like a world leader or, you know, anybody sort of motivational, like who would you pick to coach here in, in an ideal world?

43:28

So someone that I've actually been following for a while and I find really, really inspiring.

43:32

So she's from the UK and she's someone called Carrie green and she started what's called the female entrepreneur association.

43:39

And what I find really inspiring about Carrie is that she's literally manifested her way to where she is now.

43:46

So she often shows clips and stories.

43:49

What I love about her is that she's documented her journey over the past few years.

43:52

I think documenting her journey is really, really great.

43:54

And so she's documented her journey from like 10 years ago of her creating like a vision board, for example, you know, me having this many followers and this much income and this.

44:04

And so she set the intention very, very clearly of what it is that she wants to create in her life and she's manifested her way to do that.

44:10

So she teaches people like how to create the mindset, how to believe in yourself and create those things.

44:15

And I'm a huge believer of the law of attraction and manifestation and, you know, becoming the person that you need to be in order to attract the things that you want to attract in your life.

44:26

But I think kind of just seeing her and she's very personable, which I think is very important, you know, in business, just being very personable, open, approachable, just to have a great conversation and be like, Hey, you know, let's Del deeper.

44:38

I'd love to know what's worked for you and how I can create more of that in my life.

44:41

She sounds fantastic. I'm gonna look her up. Um, immediately when we finished talking and I'll put her in the show notes, so that have look, she sounds great.

44:48

We also love to talk about books on this podcast. So I just wanted to end with sort of a couple of more questions, but one specifically like any books that you would highly recommend, any books that have meant something to you that have changed your life or that you go back to love to hear more about that.

45:00

So before I made the decision to quit my full-time job and start my own business, I actually read this book called the quarterlife breakthrough and it's by Adamowski.

45:11

And I mean, if you're listening to this now and you're like, oh, are I older than quarter life?

45:15

What is quarter life? It's fine. You know, it says you can apply to like quarter life, third life, whatever it is.

45:20

That was just such a, the pivotal moment for me reading that book, it gave me the confidence to really question myself of like, what's important for me right now in my life.

45:30

What are my values? What kind of life do I want to lead?

45:33

Because I was part of that, you know, I just got my degree, did my master's went into my career.

45:37

What I thought was my dream. I had my dream job on paper.

45:40

I really did. But when I got there, I was like, is this really it?

45:44

Like, is this really what I wanna spend the rest of my life doing? Which unfortunately was a bit of an anti-climax and a disappointment and kinda having reading this book made me realize that actually it's about your values, knowing what kind of life you want to live.

45:56

And something that really stuck out to me in this book was he talked very much about Lily pads.

46:00

And so in life, we can often feel like if I do something differently, I'm gonna go back.

46:05

You know, we hear that a lot. I'm moving backwards, but he very much talked about it as like Lily pads, like moving to the side from one Lily pad to another, nothing is you are never moving backwards in life.

46:16

I know it can feel like that because you put in so much work and invested your time, energy finances.

46:21

But if you're getting closer to where you want to go, that is like, think of it as you moving forward.

46:26

It's just a side step rather than something that's going back,

46:29

God. Oh, I love that. I always have this belief that like, there's no such thing as a bad decision because you know, ultimately it's, you, you're gonna get to where you're gonna get to.

46:36

Right. And you make decisions based on the best knowledge that you have at the time.

46:39

And you know, everything's available to you. And when you look back over your life, it's rare that, you know, there's something that was like truly a bad decision.

46:46

So I like this whole sort of the line pad thing is a great analogy of, you know, it might move you sideways, forwards around.

46:51

You're not going backwards in any way, because you were always growing.

46:54

Right.

46:54

And on that note about bad decisions, one of the things that holds people back so much from making a decision is the fear of regret.

47:02

Just paralyzed by what if I make the wrong decision, but I know it's very hard.

47:08

Like what if I, what if everything goes wrong? What, and what I always ask is, well, yes, you don't know what's gonna happen if you make that decision.

47:15

But what you do know is your current situation and you know that you are not happy in this current situation.

47:20

So you already know what your life will look like.

47:23

If you continue in this way, it's not looking that great.

47:26

This is nothing's probably gonna change. However, by taking a different decision, it, it might be great.

47:33

It might not, but it might be great, but you've gotta trust yourself that you can make good decisions.

47:39

You just take one step and then another step and another step.

47:42

And I think we're talking about regret, you know, I ask and I always say like, do you think you'd regret not making this decision?

47:48

And I also say, yes, I'm like, it's probably a lot worse to regret not doing something than doing something.

47:52

At least if it doesn't work out, at least you can say, you know what?

47:55

I tried it, it didn't work. I now have the knowledge.

47:58

I've gained something from it and I can just go, you know, do something else.

48:01

Yeah, no, absolutely. I couldn't agree more, actually, it's strange.

48:04

And it's sad, but it's kind of part of life, I guess, that we operate from such a place of fear so often.

48:09

And I was recommending to some of my colleagues the other day, the book feel the fear and do it anyway.

48:13

I mean, it's a really old classic it's been around forever, but I was thinking back to, they were, it was my birthday.

48:18

So people were asking me, you know, what advice? And when you look, you know, I'm so old now, but you know, I said, you know, I just wish that I hadn't operated in such a place of fear.

48:28

And I wish that they, I wish that some of these great books that like you are mentioning and that I'm mentioning, I wish that these were the kind of things that were taught in school.

48:34

I mean, like Shakespeare is great. Don't get me wrong. But I spent like six years of my life, like learning Shakespeare and doing a Shakespeare competition every year at school.

48:40

That was fantastic. But if someone had just thrown in some sort of book like this, like that, would've given me so many more tools to like navigate my life and, you know, potentially like be operating without fear and just finding things a little bit easier to kind of navigate, I think.

48:54

But, you know,

48:56

But on that note, you know, everything that has happened has brought you, I have

48:59

A love, I'm very happy with it. So it's worked out, but you know, the curriculum could still use a bit of a tweet, I think anyway,

49:05

A hundred, but it's really interesting to see how many young people are getting into personal development.

49:10

I mean, when I was at uni, I really, I think towards the end of uni, like the final year, I started dabbling in personal development, but I don't ever remember being in like freshers or second year uni and really, really her personal development book or listening to podcasts, anything.

49:24

No, but now you see a lot of university students getting into personal growth.

49:28

The change is really, really cool. So people are starting a lot younger now

49:31

It makes me so happy and you know, I've got this amazing team and all female team actually.

49:35

And they're just like, they're just incredible. And like, they're the reason I get out bed in the mornings and they're so interested and they're reading and we have such great deep conversations about, you know, purpose and meaning.

49:45

And it's like, we weren't having these conversations when I was in my twenties, you know?

49:49

So I feel hugely, hugely hopeful and optimistic about the future.

49:52

You know, whether that's at work or in people's personal lives because people, yeah, this, this new generation are just so open and so interested and yeah, just have a lot of great ideas and, and are doing a lot of deep thinking.

50:03

I think, you know, people sometimes are a bit down on, you know, younger people and I think actually that's not my experience at all.

50:08

They're, they're fantastic. And, um, yeah, I feel very optimistic about the future, which is great.

50:13

Last question. And it's quite a big one. Um, why do you think we're here?

50:16

Like, what's that purpose on earth?

50:19

Oh, the big question, but definitely big question there.

50:22

I mean, it's definitely something I ask myself and like ponder over.

50:27

I think for each person, this is the way I see it.

50:30

Anyway, of course there isn't one answer. I think we all have our own reason, our own purpose of, of why we are here.

50:36

And we all have a gift. We all have something that we can do in this world.

50:41

From my own perspective. I've always seen it as like, we don't know why we're here on a big scale, but if we can within ourselves, just ask ourselves the question of what can I do to make this, you know, universe as world that we live in a better place in some way, then I think we should, it's our responsibility to do that.

50:56

Or if we can give back in some way, if we have a gift, there's something we can bring to the world.

51:00

Then that is our purpose. And I think often when we feel very lost in this world, it's because we're not doing what we're supposed to do or what we can do.

51:07

So I think it's like figuring out while you're here of what can you do here?

51:11

What's your gift? What makes you unique? What do you like to do and give more time to that?

51:17

So that's really what I think it is, is like, um, just finding out what you think is, and, and I think contributing as well, contribution.

51:23

I mean, it's not just about ourselves as much as I'm all about personal growth, personal development.

51:28

I think what causes unhappiness is when we make everything about ourselves, you know, we're selfish, we're self centered.

51:34

So it's giving back it's contribution, you know, contributing to the world and making the world go around is, is our big one of the reasons why we're here?

51:42

No, I couldn't agree more. One of the best ways I've got of, if I'm too much in my own head and over analyzing things, or if the world just feels too much, I just go to like, okay, what can I do for somebody else?

51:51

Like how can I serve? And instantly, like, I'm just taking out of me and it goes somewhere else.

51:55

So yeah, I, I completely agree with that and that's such a really beautiful point to end on as well.

52:00

So, um, thank you so much for your perspective on, on all the things that we've discussed.

52:03

I really, really enjoyed our conversation.

52:05

Me too. Thank you so much for having me on here.

52:08

Thanks so much for listening to the good intentions podcast.

52:12

You can find links to issues and to books that we discussed in the show notes, and you can look for the podcast on Instagram.

52:18

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52:22

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52:26

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