0:02

Welcome to good intentions, the

0:04

podcast where we explore the world around us to

0:06

find meaning and intention in what we do. I'm

0:09

Kelly Harvard , and I'm on a mission to spread

0:11

positive stories that will inspire you to live a more

0:13

meaningful and connected life. On

0:18

this episode, we speak about a topic very dear to

0:20

my heart, the zero out whole revolution.

0:22

I stopped drinking alcohol back in 2017,

0:25

and it was a truly life changing andous

0:27

decision. I'm always passionate to talk about how

0:29

embracing a sober lifestyle can impact positively

0:31

on your world and the world around you. So

0:34

you can imagine how excited I was to speak to Erica Doyle.

0:36

Zero alcohol champion here in the UAE.

0:39

Erica is proud to be the driving force behind the UAEs

0:41

first and only premium non-alcoholic

0:43

drinks. Marketplace drink dry Erica's

0:46

drink. Dry journey began in 2015. When

0:48

she decided to give up alcohol to start a family, she

0:51

moved to the UAE just a few years later and

0:53

found there was a gap in the market for non-alcoholic drinks

0:55

in the region. And the drink dry store was born.

0:57

Erica is a busy working mom, juggling

1:00

three children with a successful business. So I

1:02

was keen to stand how she manages to

1:04

stay focused, efficient and resilient.

1:06

We talked about the positive impact of cutting down

1:08

or cutting out alcohol, the insidious nature

1:11

of mommy wine culture and how community

1:13

is crucial when starting an alcohol free journey.

1:15

We also talked about making a difference in our lives

1:17

and the world around us, and I found Erica's

1:20

grounded and compassionate approach, very relatable

1:22

and inspiring. I'm sure you will too.

1:24

Please enjoy our conversation.

1:26

So thanks so much for joining me on good intentions, Erica.

1:28

It's great to see you.

1:30

Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

1:32

I'm super, I've been dying to talk to you for ages , cause I have a

1:34

very personal vested interest in what you

1:36

do and , and your brand , and I'm a regular customer

1:39

as well. So it's just really quite thrilling.

1:41

I think I've seen your name pop up a few times,

1:43

like an order comes in and I'm like, oh, Kelly's

1:46

ordering again .

1:47

Yeah, I'm always there. I'm always there. I'm sure

1:49

we're gonna come onto the reasons why as well. So , um,

1:51

before we get into sort of the business side of things and

1:54

the sort of topic that we're gonna explore today, could you just

1:56

tell me, like what brought you to the UAE in the first place? Cause

1:58

I'm always interested to know how people ended up here.

2:00

My husband has a business here and he's had a business here

2:02

since 2008 . And

2:04

then I think the first time I made a trip to Dubai

2:06

was in 2012. And ever since then

2:09

we'd come and spend maybe two, three months at

2:11

a time or two, three weeks at a time, go back

2:13

and back, go back and back. So we had a

2:15

lot of friends here. We knew Dubai. Well , we

2:18

knew my favorite place to go eat . We knew what we liked about

2:20

Dubai, what we didn't like about Dubai. And then , uh

2:22

, I had my first daughter in 2017

2:25

and then okay . With one, it was still possible

2:27

to do that kind of plane hopping for a

2:30

while . And then I got pregnant with my second one. And

2:32

then after I had her, it was just too

2:35

difficult to kind of accompany my husband on any

2:37

of the trip. So we then didn't do that for

2:39

a few years. But then in 2019

2:42

we kind of thought, okay, you know, we want to be together

2:44

as a family. I don't wanna spend too much time

2:46

apart from my husband. And he didn't wanna spend too much

2:48

time away from the kids. So we then made a family

2:50

decision to go to Dubai. And I knew

2:52

that Dubai, when you come and visit or

2:54

when you're a tourist and you stay in the marina and

2:57

you're out all the time, it's a very different

2:59

Dubai when you live in Dubai. You know? So

3:01

we moved to the ranches. My kids go to locals

3:04

nursery and all of a sudden the life selling Dubai is

3:06

very different to the one that we've kind of seen

3:08

beforehand. So we've now been here three

3:11

years.

3:12

Wow. I bet it's blown by as well. Right? Dubai time

3:14

in Dubai is different time in other places. I

3:16

feel, I feel it goes faster . I

3:18

Absolutely, and you know, I was no exception and

3:20

I was one of those people who said, I'm here for two years

3:23

and I remember, I know

3:25

you laughed . And for the first 12

3:27

months I didn't bother buying a dining table.

3:30

I made a nice enough home that my

3:32

kids felt at home and it was nice and homely,

3:35

but I didn't invest too much in it because I

3:37

still had still have a house in the UK and I was

3:39

going back home. And then as the kind of second

3:41

year creed up on us and I, I

3:43

was in the process of starting to drink dry. I think I

3:45

had officially established the business here, like opened

3:48

a trade license and everything. And I was like, actually

3:50

like, as I'm becoming closer to the

3:52

time of making a decision staying or going,

3:54

I was like, why would I go? Like, why would

3:56

I go? So we didn't. And then we stayed and I think

3:59

just bought a house here. And I think we here

4:01

for some time

4:01

Amazing. You made me laugh with your

4:03

dining room comment because , um , for a

4:06

very long time I had no pictures on the walls . I remember

4:08

, you know, I had , I had a nice enough home, but it kind of looked

4:10

a bit like a prison cell because it is literally white and

4:12

there were always white walls in Dubai. Right . So it took

4:14

me, gosh, I think at least two might

4:17

have even been three years before I even, well

4:19

obviously, and get the drill out, but the drill came

4:21

out and someone helped me to put the pictures up . But

4:24

yeah, that whole kind of feeling very , um, not

4:27

disconnected, but just , yeah , I just , it's just temporary. Right?

4:29

It's not something that's permanent. And I think a

4:31

lot of people can relate to that, which is really interesting. So

4:33

you mentioned drink dry , which I'm super interested in. Tell

4:36

us about it. Like why did you start it? What

4:38

, what's the rationale behind it? What is it tell, okay

4:40

.

4:41

I think it sort of goes back to about 2015

4:45

. I'm gonna say my husband is actually

4:47

in alcohol industry. So we've always had really

4:49

nice wines in the house. You know, we've always been very

4:52

familiar with new products that were coming out, et cetera

4:54

, et cetera . We weren't ever massive drinkers.

4:56

I think on looking back, probably enjoyed

4:59

the wine too often. Now, when

5:01

I think to be drinking wine three nights a

5:03

week is probably too excessive. And anyway, in about

5:06

2015 , really desperately wanted to have a family and we've been

5:08

trying for a few years and it just wasn't happening.

5:10

And long story short, we

5:13

tried different things. We got tested

5:15

and there was no obvious reason why we couldn't have children.

5:17

And my wonderful GPB just said, go

5:20

back to basic , sleep more , eat

5:22

better, cut out alcohol exercise

5:24

more. And just in general, like give

5:27

your body a break and nourish it

5:29

and see what happens, let your body do the

5:31

trick . So I did, and it was very kind of easy

5:34

motivation. It was very easy decision to

5:36

make. So I gave up alcohol in 2015

5:39

. At that point , I

5:41

think it was really luck . Keep timing because the

5:43

brands like seed li and some really

5:45

good quirky on alcoholic beers were coming

5:47

out into the market. So we were the first T

5:49

tranch of the Guinea pigs kind of , of the non

5:52

out revolution. And it was really exciting cause

5:54

I, all of a sudden didn't feel left out.

5:56

You know, we were going to different parties and we

5:58

still loved socializing and we still continued

6:00

having a really full social life.

6:02

You know, I still had people over and were making cocktails.

6:05

I was just making mine with C living on all

6:07

other drinks that were coming then. So that kind of

6:09

continued for about a year. And in that pro in that time,

6:11

my husband gave up alcohol as well. And then

6:13

I got pregnant with my first daughter. I

6:15

had her. And then as the kind of

6:18

years went on, the more drinks were

6:20

coming into the market. And it was something that we were

6:22

mega excited all the time because we'd be , oh , did

6:25

you see something else's now into the market? And now they

6:27

have this amazing sparking wine. And now

6:29

they have this apples brittle alternative , and now they

6:31

have X Y's head . And for me it just, you know,

6:33

I , I was really lucky to then went on to have another

6:35

two little girl . So I have three girls altogether

6:38

now. And there's just, you know, with busy

6:40

parenting, busy lifestyle,

6:42

busy jobs, there's just no

6:44

room in my life for feeling on

6:47

top of my game. Like whether I'm a parent

6:49

or at work, I wanna be on top

6:52

of my game the whole time. If I'm out with

6:54

friends, I wanna make sure that I'm sharp and I'm

6:56

enjoying myself. I'm not tired or

6:58

lagging from the night before. So I

7:00

, I never went back to alcohol. And

7:02

when we moved to Dubai in 2019

7:05

, it was really sad because I

7:07

remember going to my local supermarket

7:10

and kind of heading for the beverage aisle

7:12

and thinking, oh , I'm really excited because every time

7:14

I traveled to new countries, I'd go and

7:16

see what's out there in supermarket. Like

7:18

, you know , you go to Spain and you see like they had different non-alcoholic

7:21

BES or different wines. So I remember making a

7:23

trip to supermarket here. I was just

7:26

kinda was standing there going, surely this

7:28

can't be it. Like this just can't

7:30

be it. You know, I've

7:32

Done exactly the same. Exactly the same experience.

7:34

It's yeah . 45 . Durhams for what is essentially

7:37

sparkling apple juice. It tastes

7:39

like apple juice as well . Some of the ones you , right ,

7:41

Correct. Correct. And I didn't even buy

7:43

those things that are kind of what I call

7:45

imposter products in the category. Like, you

7:47

know, sparkling sugary, apple juice

7:50

in a champagne shaped bottle. Cuz

7:52

I , I look on the label and be like, nah , this is apple

7:54

juice. I'm not buying it. Not even for the

7:57

money or anything . I don't wanna drink it. So then I kind of were

8:00

moaned and complained and moaned and I said, this is

8:02

ridiculous. I can't believe this is, you

8:04

know, not happening. And every time I traveled back

8:06

home, I'd stock up and bring my favorite kind

8:08

of non-alcoholic drinks. And then I

8:10

think it was beginning off 2020 . So

8:13

one year had passed. We bought our

8:15

dining table. So that was a clear sign that

8:17

we were staying. We were staying put. And I , I

8:19

thought, okay, you know, my two girls are now probably

8:22

one and two and a half . I was ready

8:24

to do something. And that's

8:26

when I thought, okay , well I will start a small eCommerce

8:29

business. We'll bring in some non-alcoholic products. And

8:31

I'm sure that there are other people out there who

8:34

are looking to either moderate

8:36

sometimes or who are

8:38

non drinkers looking full time enjoy

8:40

. And it kind of never, I don't think I ever

8:43

expected it to be such a tied into such a

8:45

big, wonderful business. And then to

8:47

start with, I think we, we established the business

8:49

in February, 2020 , and

8:51

then obviously the pandemic hit. So we pause it

8:53

in terms of launching it. We didn't like

8:55

go live and didn't tell the world about drink dry.

8:58

But it was really almost like a blessing in

9:00

disguise because there were other hurdles

9:02

that we didn't foresee such as making

9:04

the products all compliant. And as a

9:06

customer, you probably will have seen, like we only pick

9:08

up our bottles. Like it has all the Arabic wordings

9:10

and labels and we don't

9:13

call things alcohol free . We call them alcohol

9:16

Freemont drink because we worked so closely with the

9:18

authorities here to make sure that we were

9:20

the first people in the market to bring in

9:22

something that looked and tasted like

9:24

alcohol, but it wasn't. So

9:26

we had to work with them to make sure that what

9:28

we were putting on the shelves in retail and supermarkets

9:31

didn't offend anyone that what it

9:33

said on the package, it was clear to everybody

9:36

what it was. So that took a of time and

9:38

it was good that we didn't have to rush it and

9:40

we had everybody's attention. So I

9:42

think that was the big bulk of

9:44

that work was done in 2020 while the

9:46

world was kind of trying to find its feets again

9:48

. And then we got the products

9:51

into the market and we launched December,

9:53

2020 and the rest is history

9:56

.

9:57

We heard that there's so much coming out now , now that we're

9:59

kind of almost exiting COVID. I mean, I know

10:01

it's still with us, but you know, we're kind of coming we're at the tail

10:03

end . I think it is fair to say . And you know, all the sort of lockdowns

10:06

that we went through, you know, that there's been a lot of

10:08

talks. Things are coming to light now about, you know, the negative

10:11

aspects of being locked down, whether it's mental health,

10:13

whatever, whatever. And one of the big things is that everybody seems

10:15

to been drinking more when

10:17

they were locked down . I mean, it was even on , um , I

10:20

dunno if you watched the , uh , and just like that

10:22

, which was the follow up to sex in the city, one

10:24

of the main characters actually developed a , a

10:26

drinking problem during lockdown. So

10:28

do you think in a way that's kind of , sort of , I mean , I've

10:30

got lots of questions about sort of people's attitudes to alcohol,

10:33

but do you think sort of with your launch time , that

10:35

kind of helped a bit that people sort of suddenly thinking,

10:37

okay, I've been doing this for a long time, perhaps

10:39

it's time to change. Were people having that sort

10:41

of mental shift or was it, did you not notice anything?

10:44

I think for us looking back in hindsight, you

10:46

know, it's a wonderful thing, but I think for us, it was the

10:48

perfect storm in many, many ways. The

10:50

, the time that we launched December,

10:53

2020 as we kind of went into post

10:55

Christmas period where people over

10:57

indulge just over and on

11:00

top of everything, they were looking for alternatives.

11:02

We had an incredible first month of

11:04

trading. We didn't anticipated , you

11:06

know, we had to fly in the stock because we just

11:08

sold out so much faster than we anticipated.

11:11

So I think the , the 2020,

11:13

the year of when , when code kind of first

11:15

hit the world was the year where

11:17

we just gave up a bit and had

11:19

a bit too much drank a bit too much, you

11:22

know, and did all the things didn't exercise enough,

11:25

just didn't have motivation enough. Cause

11:27

we had resilient features , right?

11:29

So as we had to sort of find a

11:31

way out of it, we started to look alternatives.

11:34

And 2021 was the

11:36

year where people decided to do so about

11:38

their health , about their physical, mental health. That

11:41

was a wonderful year for us and it , our

11:43

product range and, and the idea

11:45

behind ring dry fitted

11:47

the year very well.

11:48

Mm , absolutely. And I also, I mean , obviously January

11:51

as well as the time, right. Where people are sort of looking at

11:53

some new year's resolutions, I , I'm not a massive fan

11:55

of resolutions, but obviously there's dry January. There's

11:58

sober spring. It's a really good time. And people are sort of looking

12:00

to sort of make changes. I stopped drinking in

12:02

2017. So yeah, I

12:05

, and I'd gone through exactly the same process that you

12:07

mentioned. It had been Christmas, I'd been partying.

12:09

I'd been out, I'd been connecting with people. I'd been sat

12:11

in the garden, but by the time it came to January, the

12:13

first I was so ready, I was like, I just, if

12:15

I don't see another glass of wine again, it will be too

12:17

soon. And then went through the whole dry January

12:20

process and then was like , actually I feel

12:22

quite good now. So I'm just gonna keep it

12:24

going. And I really only intended to do it for maybe

12:26

like three months or something. I don't know . I wasn't sure, but

12:28

I , I definitely wasn't thinking like this is it forever, but

12:30

then like the whole sort of roller coaster of support.

12:33

And I think 2017, a couple of really

12:35

good books came out. There was the unexpected joy of being

12:37

sober. A lot of people found out about

12:39

the naked mind book by any grace . Like

12:42

I think it was coming into people's consciousness a lot more.

12:44

And now, like you say, there's actually, there's

12:46

a lot more openness around it and people

12:48

are , whether it is moderating or, you know , not drinking

12:51

at all, you know, whatever it is. I think people

12:53

are more and sort of talking about it, which is great.

12:55

So I'm interested in what you said earlier, Erica, about sort of

12:57

having, when you had kids that made

12:59

you think like, I need to be at the top of my game,

13:02

I can't drink anymore. But so

13:04

many of the messages around that around alcohol,

13:06

you know, we are sold a lie. It's all around like

13:08

mommy wine culture, right? It's like, you

13:11

need this to help you. And I definitely heard this a lot

13:13

when my daughter was small, she didn't sleep and

13:15

I went back to work and it was like, you know, this is my

13:17

reward at the end of the day for a

13:19

really hard day. I mean , how do you feel about

13:22

that sort of mommy wine culture and, and the

13:24

messages that it's giving to women,

13:26

Mommy , wine culture. To me, it's like giving

13:28

a hyperactive child a load

13:30

of sugar and sending them to bed and expecting

13:33

them to go to sleep whenever that's how I

13:35

see it. It's the complete opposite of

13:37

what we should be doing and all forward

13:39

, because parenting is the hardest thing

13:42

I have ever done. Hands down, hands

13:44

down, any job I've had, parenting is so

13:46

much harder. So there absolutely has

13:48

to be a reward, but the reward has to

13:50

be in a form of something that

13:52

makes you feel good mentally and

13:55

physically because you know, alcohol

13:57

is , uh , I mean in moderation, there's , there's

13:59

no harm in it, but if your child is

14:01

not sleeping at night and you have one in

14:03

the evening and you go to bed, your body can't

14:06

rest because scan has toxics in

14:08

it. You are groggy. You're not patient, you're

14:11

not on top of your game. And for me

14:13

personally, it's the morning after it doesn't matter much.

14:16

I drank alcohol. Well , it's a glass, generally,

14:18

a glass of wine or two or three. I

14:21

felt off like I just felt off . I

14:23

was not patient. I wasn't chatty. I

14:25

just felt, you know, mad . So

14:28

for me, I think it's unfair. I think we live really

14:30

busy lives and our kids already suffer

14:33

because they don't see us enough. Like, you know, I

14:35

remember obviously , so my mom was a

14:37

stay at home mom for much, much longer than

14:39

I was. So I really gotta spend a lot of time

14:41

with my mom. And, and so did she with

14:43

her own mom and, but things have changed and

14:46

it is what it is. It's not a bad thing. It's just the

14:48

reality that we all go back to work. We do

14:50

what we have to do. So when that

14:52

is your reality for me having

14:54

those few hours in the day that I spend with

14:56

my kids is so precious, it's so

14:59

precious. And I wanna make sure that when they wake up,

15:01

I'm there with a smile cuz I had a good night's

15:03

sleep that I'm rested, that I'm

15:05

full of energy. That I have time to answer a

15:08

million wise and a million Watts million

15:11

who's I'm not snapping at them because

15:14

my patient's slow as it is . So

15:16

if I'm then affected by anything

15:18

and you know, I remember when I had my third little girl

15:21

and going through those early sleepless

15:23

nights, I would be snappy

15:25

with my other two the next morning because I

15:27

was tired, but I knew consciously

15:29

that they will pass this nice . And

15:32

I will go back to normal happy mommy . So

15:34

I think the , the mum wine culture, it's

15:36

the absolutely wrong message that we're giving out to

15:38

mums. The message should be mum

15:40

, me time , mummy , happy time, mommy

15:43

, reward time and encourage

15:45

mums to do other things. You know, and if

15:47

you're not into exercise, have a bath. If

15:49

you're not into reading a book, go full , whatever

15:52

it is that gives you that bit of a head

15:55

space and quiet time when you're

15:57

not answering a million wise , that that should

15:59

be the message, not put some toxins

16:01

in your body that will make you feel worse the

16:03

next day and expect you to function

16:06

even better the next day.

16:07

Yeah, I agree. And um , yeah, I'm

16:09

hands up. Someone that doesn't have a huge amount of patience

16:11

in it's . Um , probably one of my, my brand

16:14

values is that I'm not a hugely patient patient person.

16:16

Cause partly because of the life I lead is fast. I don't

16:18

have time to wait for things, but yeah, I did feel there was something quite

16:20

liberating and that look, I still get impatient with

16:22

my daughter. I still get impatient with my husband, but

16:25

there's a freedom in knowing that that's not because

16:27

I've got a bit of a hangover or it's not, cause I've got

16:29

a drink that's me. So then, okay. Why

16:31

, why am I feeling like that? Why am I acting like that?

16:33

How can I work on that? Whereas before I would always

16:36

be sort of rattled with guilt about, okay

16:38

, is that cause I had that glass of wine or is that

16:40

cause I went to that bar last night, like, oh , oh , you know , should

16:42

I be drinking this constant internal dialogue about

16:44

alcohol? Whereas now I'm like, okay , it's , it's take alcohol

16:47

out the equation. It's really a liberating feeling. Still

16:49

getting patient. I have to say. But yeah. Your

16:52

sort of personal journey with alcohol, how has it

16:54

fluctuated then? So is it been , was

16:56

it a cha you said it's quite easy at first, right? You had , you

16:58

had a big reason to stop. Has that kinda changed

17:00

over time? You know , have you ever thought, oh , maybe

17:02

I'll stop a couple of wine again . I'm

17:05

really interested to know .

17:06

So when I , when I first gave , I had

17:08

a clear goal , I wanted to have a baby

17:11

that was like above everything else . So it

17:13

wasn't difficult at all. And then Jane was pregnant and

17:16

then I had my baby and I think I got

17:18

pregnant the second time when my first one was six months

17:20

old. So there's really no time to

17:22

think about, am I ever gonna drink or odd

17:25

? And then , uh , I think there was a two year

17:27

gap between my second and third, possibly

17:29

at that point, people were saying like, so you ever gonna go

17:31

back to drinking? And I remember saying to people,

17:34

I will, if I go to a dinner party

17:36

and somebody cracks open and astonishingly

17:39

expensive, amazing bottle of wine, I

17:41

absolutely will. And that was kind of like my

17:44

get out, like, you know, which I thought this is

17:46

it. And funny enough , two weeks ago I went

17:48

to a dinner party and somebody packed, open a bottle

17:50

of , um, chat mood on Rosschild.

17:53

Wow. And I sat there and

17:55

it was about 10 o'clock by that point. And I

17:57

had a super important meeting next day at eight 30

17:59

in the morning. And I was already tired from

18:01

the week of girl food . So I was sort of sitting there half

18:04

morning thinking I'm really ready to go home. And

18:07

they just crack open this bottle of, and I

18:09

was like , oh , this is that moment. I've been telling everybody

18:11

like, you know, if it happens, I will happily

18:13

enjoy a glass of wine. And I was actually drinking

18:16

a glass of wine . Non-alcoholic red wine, that's

18:18

a host, very kindly bought and had ready for

18:20

me. And I just thought , and I laughed

18:22

internally. I thought, no, I still

18:24

don't want to , like, I just don't want to , it

18:27

doesn't matter what it is like how expensive

18:29

or how exclusive this product is.

18:32

This wine is like, I just have

18:34

better things to do tomorrow. So I'm just

18:36

gonna say no. So I didn't. And

18:39

has it been difficult? I think the

18:42

more new products come into the non-alcoholic

18:44

drinks category, the less difficult

18:46

it is because I genuinely, genuinely

18:48

don't feel like I , I ever miss out. I absolutely

18:51

still get that feeling on a Thursday evening when

18:53

I get in and I've had a busy week and I, the kids are

18:55

in bed and I think just wanna sit in the garden on

18:58

my own, have a glass per Secco

19:00

and just Ugh , unwind. And

19:02

I do exactly that. I go to my fridge,

19:04

open the fridge, get a bottle of alcohol

19:07

free per Secco . That to me say exactly

19:09

the same. And you know, I know that my customers say

19:11

the same and I have that ritual. I

19:13

have exactly that ritual and I then get on

19:16

my evening and I get on with my day, the next day.

19:18

And I think it's part of whenever people ask

19:20

me, you know, how did you do it? Or what advice

19:22

do you have for people? I always say,

19:25

just stock up on non-alcoholic drinks.

19:27

It's that simple, have a few options available,

19:30

you know , a house ready, chilled, ready to go.

19:32

So when you get in one day and you think , ah , a

19:35

really fancy having a drink , but I

19:37

don't actually want to have the effects the

19:39

next day, just opt for alcohol

19:41

free one and see how you feel the next

19:43

day, because the chances are from

19:45

what I've seen that the next day people

19:48

will you'll feel so great about your

19:50

choice. And I , before that , you'll do

19:52

that again and again and again, and maybe

19:54

the weekend comes and you'll go out and you'll, you know, have

19:57

a wild night with your friends. And that's great that

19:59

no harm in that, but it's doing that

20:02

making different choice every now

20:04

and again , that's where I think the is

20:07

Definitely, it's funny . You really made

20:09

me laugh with your , um , one day I might have a drink story

20:12

. I , at the very beginning, I

20:14

did have a couple of people, but when I was kinda like, you know,

20:16

like sort of feeling my way

20:18

through it, myself and I can remember some

20:20

of my friends would send, they were always very supportive

20:22

in the main , I do remember one friend sending me some

20:24

brunch or night out or something, just a link. And

20:26

she was like, when you start drinking again, we

20:29

can go to this place. And at that point I was already

20:31

sort of like , I don't think I'm going

20:33

to start drinking again, if I can avoid it because

20:36

my life is so much better without it. It

20:38

was interesting. There , there was an assumption that some point I

20:40

would start again and yeah, I think it's, it

20:43

is quite a big decision depending on, I mean, depending

20:45

obviously on everybody, you , your individual choices

20:47

are individual choices, but I think if you are, you

20:50

know , I'm British. Um , I work in

20:52

PR from a very young age, you know, alcohol

20:54

has been part of my life when I tell people I don't drink. They're

20:57

genuinely shocked quite a lot of the time, especially

20:59

people like that . You're British, everyone in Britain loves to drink.

21:01

I'm like , yeah, they do. So , yeah, it's quite

21:03

a big cultural shift. So , um, that really made me laugh

21:05

about your bottle of story . And I'm glad that

21:07

you didn't do I think the next day,

21:09

But I didn't. And it was , it was actually so easy. I

21:11

was kind of like, I was like , this is the

21:13

crossroad. Cause I always said like, this would be

21:15

the moment that I would, and maybe under

21:17

different circumstances, you know, if it was the

21:20

weekend and maybe I would've had a glass wine

21:22

, but I just feel like there

21:24

are so many good alternatives out there

21:26

that I really, I swear, I

21:28

didn't feel like I was missing out because I had my glass

21:31

red wine. I was having fantastic time. I

21:33

was having nice food and I didn't feel like

21:35

I was missing out one bit. And I

21:37

think that's the key of kind of , if you're not feeling

21:39

like you're missing anything, why you

21:42

go looking for something.

21:42

Yeah, absolutely. And what's your favorite

21:45

part about not drinking alcohol? Is it the lack

21:47

of hangers it or is it just the clarity or

21:49

getting stuff done?

21:51

All of it. I think it kind of all leads from

21:53

one thing to another, you know, I think initially

21:55

I always thought I, I said, well, I always

21:57

just say like, I sleep like a baby. I could fall sleep anywhere.

22:00

Like I had no problems of going off to sleep

22:02

or I'd never wake up in the night. But

22:04

I realized that when I, when

22:06

I gave up alcohol that my

22:09

, my body actually rested

22:11

in the night, I think after a couple of weeks

22:13

of being alcohol free , that's when I really noticed

22:15

different because I'd still go like quite a few nights

22:17

without the alcohol before. But when I went truly

22:20

like few weeks or, or maybe two or three weeks

22:22

without the alcohol, that's when I noticed that my

22:24

body just used to go into this lovely

22:27

restful sleep at night . And

22:29

then I just naturally wake up without

22:31

alarm, without anything in the morning and feel like,

22:34

wow , I feel fully rested . I'm

22:36

full of energy . I started exercising that

22:39

I, you know, I'm still very active now. And

22:41

that only started when I kind

22:43

of went because I had so much more than

22:45

I ever did before . And it's all of it . Loads

22:49

of energy patience. I'm

22:51

a much nicer person. I'm just a

22:53

much nicer patient person. I'm

22:56

much better at my decision making . I

22:59

don't hesitate. I don't think twice I'm

23:01

sharper. And I think one of the,

23:03

I see the biggest change in

23:05

, uh , a lot of my peers who are in the

23:07

early thirties who are going through that huge

23:10

career kind of like making phase

23:12

right now. Cause I have

23:14

to say probably over 90%

23:16

of my friends are now alcohol free , nothing

23:18

to do with me, nothing, but just by

23:21

association, maybe I just now attract

23:23

people like that. I dunno what it is , but huge,

23:26

huge circle of my friends

23:28

are acquaintances are non drinkers or

23:31

people who choose to be non drinkers. And I see

23:33

a huge shift in those people who

23:35

are in that kind of, I'd

23:38

say really most important part of their

23:40

career where they're really trying to make a name for themselves.

23:42

They're working all the hours under the sun because they have

23:44

to make that break and the ones who have gone

23:46

alcohol free , they can just do

23:48

it, you know, without killing themselves in

23:51

the process, they are conscious of

23:53

the mental health. They can take a break when they have to,

23:55

and they're doing it for the right reasons.

23:58

And they're still able to maintain that balance

24:00

of work and personal life.

24:03

Yeah. It's so interesting. Isn't it ? Like couldn't agree more cause

24:05

yeah . I just like yes, yes. To all of that. Yeah.

24:07

I think it kind of , it gets in your way a lot,

24:09

maybe a lot more than you realize. I mean, I'm still

24:12

not a great sleeper, to be honest, without alcohol

24:14

for sort over four years. But, and I only

24:16

slept for about four hours last night and yeah , I got up

24:18

this morning, did the school run, went for a run run

24:20

and then days work the thought

24:23

of doing that if I'd have had like , you know , a couple , my

24:25

glasses of wine the night before it just wouldn't have happened. I

24:27

no way, you know, I would've done the school run. I would've been

24:29

fine to do that, but I would, I have then gone and run

24:31

along the beach. No way. There's just, even,

24:33

even when I'm tired, I have much more motivation

24:36

and energy to get things done. And

24:38

I always say, I can't remember who said it originally, this is not

24:40

my quote, but I always feel really just

24:42

when I see alcohol, no issue with

24:44

anybody else that wants to drink, you know , my husband still

24:46

drinks loads of my friends drink. I just look at

24:48

it and just think I'm just grateful that I don't have to do that anymore.

24:50

Like I just feel happy that it's

24:53

not something that I do. So I just feel very like

24:55

calm about so

24:56

Yeah , I fully agree with you, but you know , it's

24:58

funny because I dunno why this , because what I do

25:01

would drink dry and the fact that people

25:03

trust me, like the alcohol free

25:05

options in my house are good. Whenever we

25:07

have barbecues or get togethers

25:10

at my house or lunches or Christmas

25:12

lunch or anything at all, I always cater

25:14

for people. So whether they're vegan , vegetarian

25:17

meat, eaters , drinkers, non drinkers , doesn't

25:20

matter to me. I always have a choice because I like to

25:22

be the best host that I can. Right. So if people are

25:24

coming to my house, you know, I always have beers and more and

25:27

alcoholic ones available for them. But it

25:29

just, so it happens when people come to my house, they're like, actually,

25:31

you know, cause I'm here, like I'm gonna try one

25:33

of your drinks. I'm gonna try something. And

25:36

very rarely do them . People go and

25:38

say, well actually next time I'll have alcohol. Most

25:41

of the time people go, no , this is actually very good

25:43

. I'm happy to stick to it for the rest of the day. And

25:45

then, you know, they don't have to have and get any safe drivers.

25:48

They can just hop back in their car and get home.

25:50

Or if they have kids, you know, they don't

25:52

have to worry about having want too many while they're

25:55

with their kids or it's maybe because they

25:57

know that I have these amazing options available

25:59

for them to try. And it's a good opportunity

26:02

for them to try . Yeah ,

26:03

Definitely . Your house sounds amazing food

26:06

and drink . Now . I'm not , I'm going for an , um

26:08

, but I mean , if you wanna invite me , that's fine. But yeah

26:10

, no, I really agree. And I'm really interested in what

26:12

you were saying about, you know , some of your friends not drinking

26:15

now as well. I think as I've got older, I'm

26:17

seeing definitely my friends and my colleagues,

26:19

people are drinking. Some are drinking more, but

26:21

a lot of drinking, less, a lot of people , a lot of people are a lot more

26:23

sober, curious as well. So I will often get

26:25

people. I mean, sometimes even strangers sort

26:27

of caught comment or message me

26:30

on Instagram cuz they know I don't drink asking me

26:32

about it , which I think is really refreshing and this

26:34

whole sort of community around it. I wanted to ask you how

26:36

important you think community is. If

26:39

you're gonna live an alcohol free life. And are , are you seeing

26:41

that with the sort of community that you're building around drink dry

26:43

as well?

26:44

It's absolutely key because

26:46

like with anything you want to

26:49

exchange views, opinions, obstacles,

26:52

victories, anything in between with

26:54

others. So it's absolutely

26:57

key the way the kind of, for me, the

26:59

way the on our trends went Dubai,

27:01

last year we launch string dry and

27:03

we had the grand total of five products

27:06

in our range. And then for the first few

27:08

months after that people were saying, oh, when are you bringing

27:11

still wines ? When are you bringing this? When are you bringing this? When are you

27:13

bringing this? So people were asking about the product

27:16

specific. They wanted to enjoy a

27:18

wider range, say fast forward six

27:20

months. And we had the full range. People

27:23

could literally go on our platform and choose anything

27:25

from different BS to wines, to cocktail

27:28

making kind of products, anything and

27:30

anything in between. Then the next questions kind

27:32

of set of questions we started getting from

27:34

our customers is where can I now go out

27:37

and enjoy these things because I'm

27:39

will enjoying it at home. But actually

27:41

now I'm gonna go out with my friends and on Tuesday

27:43

night and I wanna choose a venue that

27:46

we can go out everybody's for, including

27:49

me . So we really focus . We invested

27:51

business, we brought in a sales team and we

27:53

went out there and planted our products into

27:56

as many places as we can weds

28:01

are available . Cause we in sober , we

28:04

now have about hundred venues in Dubai stocking

28:06

our products and anything, anything

28:09

from small vegan cafes to kinda five

28:11

star restaurants and hotels, which is awesome. So

28:14

the

28:14

Really Roberto you're in Roberto, I

28:17

seem to remember. Yeah , yeah . I see

28:19

you on a menu. I'm always squeaking cause yeah

28:21

. Exciting with

28:23

your so if I can go and have like a, you know,

28:25

something that is non-alcoholic then it's, it's

28:27

much more fun.

28:28

Exactly. So we try to make sure that we

28:30

kinda sit down and go, right ? Where do we need to be geographically?

28:33

So for those who are ina bin ranches , we

28:35

are in Mason , Matis , you know, a sort of family friendly

28:37

place for those who are in the I C

28:40

we are in BCA Robertos Aly

28:42

, Gaia , you know, kind of different products in

28:44

different places. We're in world of Astoria.

28:46

But equally then we are in 11 wood

28:48

fire , which is a new unlicensed place and

28:51

just vegan cafes across the Dubai kind of

28:53

really varied range of, of venues

28:55

that we stock our drinks in. And then the

28:58

final kind of round of questions we

29:00

are getting from our customers is about

29:02

community and experiences

29:04

that they can do with alcohol free

29:06

drinks. It's no longer enough for

29:09

people to go out somewhere that

29:12

alcohol is not present. They now

29:14

want to purposely go out and do things where

29:16

they can enjoy alcohol free drinks. Okay

29:19

. So that's why we now

29:21

as business, we do kind of probably

29:23

monthly different tastings. So we

29:25

just last, we launched our new product and

29:27

we did a tasting last week where we

29:30

invited our customers. They could get, you know, kind of firsthand

29:32

experience, try the products, see what they

29:34

think, give us their feedback. Then

29:36

I think next month we'll do, we'll do our wine

29:38

tasting again, where we invite customers, come

29:40

and try it for those who think, ah

29:43

, I really wanna try an on alcoholic wine, but I'm

29:45

not sold on the idea yet. This

29:47

is why we are doing it. That people can come and

29:49

enjoy it. And then they meet different people. You

29:51

know? And the most fascinating thing

29:54

about these kind of little meets is

29:57

you have different genders, different

29:59

age groups are nationalities, different

30:01

stories, different countries, different reasons

30:04

why people are non drinkers and it's

30:06

the most eclectic mix of people you

30:08

could imagine. And I remember when we first did

30:10

our market research into non-alcoholic

30:13

in the UAE, we , we actually made a mistake as

30:15

a business and we segmented our customers

30:17

into your typical classic nationality,

30:20

age group , gender ethnicity,

30:23

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's

30:25

not how it works at all in an non-alcoholic

30:28

because our marketing wasn't working to

30:30

how we wanted it to work. We realized we are not

30:32

targeting the right people or we're not sending out

30:34

the right messages to them . So then kind

30:37

of thought , okay , we need to just forget everything we've

30:39

learned and start again. And then a

30:42

guy who was the head of strategy from Sati

30:44

and Sati actually came in and said, you're

30:46

doing it all wrong. You need to understand

30:48

people's why are people not drinking? Is

30:50

it religious reason because they are into

30:53

their wellness or is it because they're

30:55

currently trained for marathon? So they're

30:57

, you know, the fitness gets in the way of the drinking.

31:00

Are they expecting, are they young with

31:02

the lack of patience under the belt? Are they

31:05

kind of top performing business professionals who

31:07

need to be on top of their game? So

31:09

once we kind of cemented our

31:12

customers into why and reasons

31:14

why they are customers, it became a lot

31:16

easier to communicate with them and to fill

31:18

them and touch them and to understand who they are and,

31:21

you know, bring in the products and do the right events

31:23

for that. So yeah , community is , is critical

31:25

here for , for it to succeed. It's critical

31:27

and on alcoholic drinks are still niche. It's

31:30

not a trend or fad that is gonna come and

31:32

go. It's here to stay, but it's

31:34

still not mainstream. It's still niche. And until

31:36

it becomes mainstream, you need

31:39

to have a small community. You need to have people

31:41

share their experiences and so

31:43

on. So we've actually just started a Facebook group

31:45

called live dry Dubai because

31:48

we thought, well, this is it. I'm

31:50

a huge, huge advocate for transparency.

31:53

And I think one of the biggest hurdles we have with

31:55

alcohol free drinks that we bring in is

31:57

people's opinion of the whole catch

31:59

. And I get it, I get it,

32:01

I get it. I get it because I remember where , you

32:04

know , in 2015 , 90%

32:06

of the drinks I bought in my local supermarket from

32:09

non-alcoholic section were atrocious and

32:11

I pulled them down the same . So the cash

32:13

itself has a terrible name. So when I

32:15

say to people, non-alcoholic wine, they'll go, oh

32:17

, that must be disgusting. It must taste like VGO,

32:20

it must taste like this, but it's now, you

32:22

know, the technology has moved and

32:24

the ways of producing these drinks have evolved

32:26

and the products are phenomenal. You know, they're

32:29

really, really good. So we wanted to create a

32:31

space where people can share their experiences.

32:33

And if somebody doesn't like something by

32:35

all means, let others know why you didn't like it

32:37

because it's being transparent because I

32:40

know that vast, vast, vast

32:42

majority of our customers are surprised

32:45

when they try the drinks and they go, my

32:48

goodness, this is so much better than I thought

32:50

it will be. And that's why we created the

32:52

, the , the sort of Facebook coming where people can share

32:55

these experiences. And you know, if

32:57

somebody, if we launch a new product and somebody

32:59

goes, I'm not sure I wanna spend a hundred serums

33:01

on this new bottle that I dunno what it is

33:04

. I'm just gonna quickly ask my fellow

33:06

dry drinkers. Has anybody tried X,

33:09

Y , Z , what do you think about it? And

33:11

then people give them opinion and then they can make a

33:13

choice for themselves whether to buy it or not.

33:15

Sounds great. I'm all about the community . So I'll

33:17

, I'll get the exact address from you more put it in

33:19

the show notes, cause I'm sure people wanna check . I

33:22

found it really refreshing to say , when you were talking about all the different reasons,

33:24

why people might not drink, you know, health,

33:26

wellness, or not once did you say because

33:29

they have a problem with alcohol. And I find

33:31

it really interesting that if people know you

33:33

don't drink quite often , people be like, oh

33:35

, did you have a problem ? Is that why you have ? I

33:40

think that the word alcoholic is like

33:42

really problematic because people think that

33:44

you have to be at that kind of, you know, that very typical

33:46

rock bottom, you know, glass

33:49

of wine in the morning, or, you know, drinking your

33:51

mouthwash, you know, the whole, and

33:53

I'm not saying that there are , you know , okay , alcoholism

33:55

exists. But I think this sort of gray area drinking

33:58

where people are perhaps, you know, and

34:00

they're not at rock bottom, but they want to stop and they wanna make

34:02

changes, I think is something that sort

34:04

of perhaps needs to be discussed a bit more. And

34:06

, and that I don't find the term alcoholic helpful

34:08

at all. And I wondered what , how you about

34:11

it and , and what your thoughts were on that .

34:13

I think we made a decision as a business

34:15

consciously very early on that people

34:18

who are recovering alcoholics, we

34:20

don't want to target them without

34:22

marketing. If they come and buy from us, that's

34:25

fantastic. If that's the right thing for them, that's

34:27

absolutely fine. I've done enough research

34:29

to know that sometimes it can

34:31

be a trigger. Sometimes it's not the right

34:33

thing to do. So we don't market

34:36

our product to any recovery groups

34:38

or people who are in AA or anything

34:40

like that. I think that's entirely up

34:42

to them. What we do do is

34:44

we tell about our products to people

34:47

who we think fit that reason.

34:49

Why, if there are a mom , you

34:52

know, with three young kids kind of wanting

34:54

to have a bit of a break from alcohol and a clear ahead

34:56

, that's right. Customer for us to

34:59

say, Hey, look, we have these amazing drinks

35:01

for you. They will help you feel

35:04

whatever you wanna feel and off you

35:06

go. So I know what you feel about

35:08

the term alcohol and people do naturally

35:11

assume that if you don't drink alcohol, that

35:13

you would've had a problem or you do have a problem. But

35:16

I think even that is changing. I had

35:19

you ask me that three, four years ago, straight

35:21

away when I'm at a new person or

35:23

a new group of people and be like, oh no, thank you. I'm

35:25

not , not drinking. Oh , right . Okay . Okay

35:28

. Fine. Okay . You know , you get that kind look

35:30

and go. But I think now it is changing.

35:33

It's whether I'm more confident about my

35:35

choices in life, because now people go , all right

35:37

. Okay . Well, most of the time, whenever

35:39

I go, particularly other people's houses,

35:42

if I go somewhere and I say, I'm not drinking, they go,

35:44

all right . Okay. Well, lemme see what I have. And sometimes

35:47

they have some non-alcoholic options, not necessarily the

35:49

ones that I think are very good, but despite the fact

35:51

they have a non-alcoholic beer in the fridge, you know,

35:54

which is great. Or they have a non-alcoholic

35:56

G or some sort, you know, so

35:59

people are getting more aware

36:01

that people give up alcohol for

36:03

many, many, many, many other reasons

36:05

other than just having an alcohol problem and

36:08

it will get better and better. It's a bit like I

36:11

don't actually find it helpful comparing

36:13

alcohol free industry with alcohol

36:16

industry. I don't like to draw powers

36:18

there . I much, I feel much happier,

36:20

more comfortable comparing alcohol

36:23

free G to vegan food or

36:25

dairy free milks or

36:28

anything other that is an alternative

36:30

to the mainstream. We don't frown upon

36:33

people who go, or I'm not gonna drink

36:35

coffee. I'm gonna go for decaf today . Or

36:37

no, actually I'm gonna go from beyond meat burger today

36:40

because we all know the reasons why it's

36:42

good for you. It's good for environment,

36:45

blah , blah , blah , blah . So I'm hopeful that

36:47

in time, the same thing will happen with alcohol

36:50

free drinks that people won't just straight

36:52

away associated with alcohol. They'll see more

36:54

of an alternative lifestyle choice.

36:57

Yeah. That's really , really great way of thinking

36:59

about things and sort of , as you said,

37:01

it is becoming, it may be niche, but it's definitely becoming

37:04

a lot more mainstream. You know, we even see, you know,

37:06

big, big celebrities like Chrisy Tegan

37:08

, who is , you know, famously not

37:10

drinking and hasn't drunk for quite some time and was very open

37:13

and honest about her reasons for stopping and

37:15

her journey along with that. And there's , there's been quite a

37:17

few celebs since done as well. So,

37:19

I mean , do you , do you ever see a difference when, you know,

37:21

someone announces something like that or it becomes quite topical,

37:23

does that sort of affect your sales or is it , is it more

37:26

or less consistent away from all of

37:27

That? I don't think so. I think the most powerful

37:30

tool is when somebody

37:32

around you and in your close environment

37:35

makes a change and you see the positive

37:37

results that has the most impact

37:39

on you for me, for sure. I have a

37:41

couple friends of mine who in the last five years

37:44

gave up meat very gradually. And I've

37:46

watched that transition in them. They

37:48

lost weight . They say they feel better.

37:51

You know, whenever I go to the house, they've got this amazing

37:54

aunt based food and that has inspired

37:56

me. So in the last few years, I've put

37:58

things in place in my household where we'd

38:01

an awful lot less meat than we ever did

38:03

before. And we are more adventurous with our plant

38:05

based food. And I allow my

38:08

kids not to eat their meat if they don't want to

38:10

. Whereas before I'm , you know, I'm missing European, I

38:12

was brought up on, on meat potato and some veg.

38:14

And if you didn't eat your meat, you didn't leave the table. And

38:16

I kind of started my parenting in that same

38:18

style, but now I'm like, you don't feel like

38:20

eating meat, no problem. Like if you don't want to,

38:23

you don't have to eat it. So I think

38:25

the same with alcohol free , if somebody near

38:27

you or in your close environment makes

38:29

that change and goes alcohol free , whether

38:32

it's moderating or full time as

38:34

such, and you see the positive results

38:36

it has on their lifestyle, that

38:38

has more impact on you than seeing

38:40

some celebrity give something up.

38:42

Yeah. True. It's, it's your own sort

38:44

of closer personal connections, isn't it? And yeah, as I

38:46

mentioned earlier, I definitely see people come to

38:49

me and ask me about it that are curious about it.

38:51

I mean, not that I'm, you know, this hugely influential

38:53

person, but within myself , people more and more

38:55

are starting to ask me about it . So you're right. It does .

38:58

But you probably are . You are more than you

39:00

think so in your circle of

39:02

people, you know, because as I always say to

39:04

my girls, people are watching you, you

39:07

know, and your kind gesture to a friend

39:09

in the playground, Matt is more than you think

39:11

because other children are watching you and

39:13

seeing what you do. So the same in

39:16

our life as adults, what we do, it's

39:18

not just impacting the other person that we

39:20

do that for. It's other people watching

39:23

us as well. So, you know, if you work

39:25

in an office and you have massive Christmas

39:27

due and all 30 people drank

39:30

the night before, and you're the only one who didn't, then

39:32

you come to the office next day. And you're the one who's , who's

39:34

got a spring in their app and bouncing into the

39:36

office and going, Hey guys, what a great fun we

39:38

had last night. And everybody else is like,

39:41

kind of like, you know, with, with Paramo and

39:43

coffee on their table, one

39:45

or two would look at you and think I want a bit

39:47

of what she's got and next time I'm

39:49

gonna not drink because I don't wanna feel

39:51

like this next morning. So I

39:53

think you have a lot more impact

39:57

in your environment and people that surround you , then

39:59

you think,

39:59

Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah,

40:02

I really agree. So this podcast is called

40:04

good intentions. You know, it's all about trying to

40:06

sort of set some intentions for ourselves. You

40:08

mentioned you've got three children . Dunno how you do it . Um

40:12

, how do you manage to , or how

40:14

do you try to stay sort of to

40:16

what's important to you? I mean , how aside

40:19

from the not drinking, which obviously gives you a superpower, but

40:21

, um, you know, how do you kind of manage to stay connected

40:24

and grounded amidst all of this craziness?

40:26

I really don't beat myself up. I'm one

40:28

of those people who my best is enough.

40:31

If I know, and I truly know that I

40:33

did my best, whatever it is at work with my

40:35

kids, if I did my best and that's

40:37

enough. And if I didn't, then I say, sorry, and I move

40:39

on. You know, I don't have time to dwell

40:42

on things or anything like that. I

40:44

do put simple things in place to

40:47

keep my weekly routine in

40:49

kind of check. I work out twice a

40:51

week as a minimum, you know, I aim for

40:53

three and then each beginning of each week,

40:56

I confirm to my personal trainer, which

40:58

of the three I can do this week. And a

41:00

minimum has to be two . So I work out in the

41:02

morning twice a week or three times a week. And

41:04

that sets me on the right path mentally. You

41:07

know, I do some boxing. I do some really kind of intense

41:09

workouts because that's what my personality

41:11

needs. I need that good. Ugh . You

41:13

know, after the workout, I try

41:16

my hardest and I succeed nine after 10

41:18

times to leave the office at five, get home, put

41:21

my kids to bed and I wanna be there when

41:23

they finish their bath , I'm there to read their stories . I'm

41:25

there to put them in bed. And if I have to go

41:27

back to my work and I have to open my laptop

41:29

afterwards, so be it, I will

41:31

happily do that and I'll catch up on everything

41:34

that I didn't manage to do that. But spending

41:36

couple of hours in , in the evening with my kids has

41:39

got to be paramount because I don't wanna get to

41:41

the end of 20, 22 . And my kids have got

41:43

a year older and I completely missed all

41:45

of that. So it's about having small

41:48

measurable things in place that don't

41:50

feel overwhelming that you think know,

41:52

I can do that. And if you do that, you

41:54

see big effects and same what

41:56

I said about alcohol free drinks. If you listen

41:59

to this or you read something recently

42:02

and it's kind in your mind thinking,

42:04

oh , maybe I should go free . Maybe I should try . The

42:07

easiest thing is just buy it somewhere.

42:10

Well it one drink dry or go supermarket

42:12

, just buy something and

42:14

have it in the fridge. That's your good intention that

42:17

you've intended to make the different

42:19

choice next time and see how it goes.

42:21

Yeah, my best is enough. I

42:23

think, ah , I've got , I've got a lot of work to do in this space,

42:25

which I won't bother you with because the conversation is about you.

42:28

But I love that phrase. It's it can be hard

42:30

as with thing to accept them .

42:32

For me, it's like I have changed , changed my

42:34

mindset a lot since, you know, I get birth three little

42:36

girls and I look around us

42:38

in general in the world. And I think we, women

42:41

are so capable

42:43

sometimes a lot more capable than our male

42:45

counterparts. We are astonishing

42:48

at multitasking. We are

42:50

so strong mentally. We are so strong physically.

42:52

We're so strong. And

42:55

yet we give ourselves such hard

42:58

time, always the whole kind of

43:00

, I remember talking to my husband and saying to

43:02

him, cause I read something about imposter syndrome.

43:04

And to me it was like a light bulb moment. I was like,

43:06

this is it. This is how I've been feeling my whole

43:08

life that I have now. I know what it is . And

43:10

I said to my husband, like the other day, I

43:12

read about a thing called imposter syndrome. And it now

43:15

explained so much to me. And he just looked at me

43:17

like with his blank eyes going imposter, what?

43:19

Like, it just completely went over his head, you

43:21

know? So we are so amazing

43:24

at what we do yet. We are our biggest

43:26

critics all the time. And

43:29

when I look at my three girls , I think I

43:31

don't want them to be like that. I really

43:33

want them to go out and to the world and

43:35

feel like I'm amazing. And

43:38

I'm enough. I'm brilliant at what I do.

43:40

And to end their day with, I

43:43

did great. I absolutely smashed

43:45

it today . And whether I did nothing or

43:47

I did lows , I smashed it today . I was

43:50

on my best game . And that for me is

43:52

like the biggest motivation in pulling

43:54

myself in every now and again

43:56

, when I think when I start feeling that imposter

43:59

syndrome and I'm not enough that I'm not doing enough,

44:01

I look at them and I think, no , I am , and

44:04

I'm gonna preach. You know, I'm gonna practice

44:06

what I preach and go

44:08

I'm enough . I did fantastic today .

44:10

Gosh , so completely . Yeah

44:17

, of course always, no , you make me laugh again.

44:19

I once remember I turned to my husband on the so , and

44:21

I said, babe, do you ever worry that

44:23

you are just not a good parent or that, you know , you're

44:26

of a parent ? And he looked at me , it was as if my

44:28

head around like 60 times and I'd

44:30

started talking another language and he just was

44:32

completely baffled. And he just went, no,

44:36

not even once. He's like, no, he's

44:38

like, I dunno what , and then he just carried it obviously just

44:40

turned his , turned back to whatever he was watching on Netflix or

44:43

whatever he was doing, but completely baffled. It had

44:45

never ended his head. And yeah , I talked with

44:47

myself with it on the daily. So yeah, I , I

44:50

totally, it should , uh , gonna

44:52

work harder on trying to stop that are you a

44:54

reader? Erica , do you have time to read books? And if you do,

44:56

could you tell me about a couple of books that you've loved?

44:58

Uh , I think the one I read , I used read

45:01

loads , but then I think all of the mums were

45:04

that having kids , I like even last

45:06

, I fell asleep at seven in

45:08

my daughter's bed , and then I up at nine crawl

45:11

into my own bed. And that was the end of my Sunday night,

45:13

you know? And that's how it goes most of

45:16

the times . Cause like by

45:18

the time I put my three kids to bed with my

45:20

husband's help, of course I'm just like in

45:22

my pajamas ready to go sleep. So I think that

45:24

the latest book I read on holiday was Michelle Obama's

45:27

book and I dev vowed

45:29

it and she's more

45:31

inspirational. So I read her book

45:33

now three times because I find it such an easy

45:35

read. Wow. And I just, almost like

45:38

almost like a self-help book. I just open

45:40

any page or any chapter because I've

45:42

read the book a few times now and I know the story, I

45:44

know the storyline, I know what happens. I know the lifetime

45:46

, but just open anywhere and you just read

45:49

what happens and her responds

45:51

to things and , and how it just

45:53

shows throughout the book. Everything is about attitude

45:56

and how you approach things and not

45:58

focusing on it's so hard at

46:00

the moment. And it means it's gonna

46:02

be rubbish for the rest of my life. But

46:04

instead of think it's really hard right now. And

46:07

I'm gonna say to myself, the end is gonna be

46:09

then, and I'm just gonna work

46:11

towards that. I'm not gonna give

46:14

into the panic. I'm not gonna take a short time view here.

46:16

I'm gonna take a long term view. And I think what

46:19

is that I'm trying to achieve in this hard moment

46:21

and how is that gonna benefit me long

46:24

term ? So I think that that's the book that I most

46:26

enjoyed reading recently.

46:27

Yeah. I absolutely loved it too . I

46:29

loved it too. I only read it once, but you're right. I

46:32

would definitely benefit from reading it and dipping into

46:34

it again. I loved how can she was about , um

46:36

, her marriage, boy . She was candid about a lot of

46:38

things, but I loved that. You know, she was open

46:40

about, you know, cause obviously Barack Obama is

46:43

pardon . Mm he's incredible. He's this amazing

46:45

man. We look at the two of them. We're like, oh man , they've got a

46:47

couple goals . Look at them. And she's like, actually

46:50

it was not always like that. He

46:52

was a massive pain in the neck. He was out . I

46:54

love the bit when she said, if you don't get home by this time we

46:56

are eating dinner. Anyway, whether you are here or not.

46:59

So you have to step up to us like we are gonna

47:01

do this. I would love to be a fly on the wall. And

47:04

That's the reality . And doesn't that make you feel

47:06

better? Cause it , it made me feel

47:08

better about my family set that I'm

47:10

not kind of portraying this happy

47:13

family life . My husband is not home for dinner. All

47:16

of a sudden it made me feel better about the

47:18

fact that my husband wasn't tightening time for

47:20

dinner because he was still working. You then talk

47:22

to a girlfriend and you go, well , my husband didn't

47:24

get home three times this week for dinner and

47:26

they go really well . Mine didn't either. And

47:29

you go, yeah, it's all out in the open

47:31

. Everybody's the same.

47:33

Yeah. Yeah. Nobody's perfect. Even the

47:35

Obamas , which I just thought

47:36

Was, but you know, she just released , um , I

47:38

think I haven't bought it for anyone yet, but I

47:40

thought she just released a slightly edited version

47:43

of that book aimed for younger girls.

47:45

I think it's 14 plus maybe. Oh

47:47

really? Yes . So I saw that in the workshop recently

47:50

and I thought, this is it. This is the perfect gift

47:52

for the young girls. You know, my nieces,

47:55

anybody around me who I want to inspire,

47:58

but I haven't read it yet. So I dunno how much edited

48:00

it is and how much is kept in the book. But

48:02

yeah, they've done that, which I think is fantastic.

48:04

Oh , amazing . I'll check it out. Yeah . Sounds fantastic. Super

48:07

role models for young women to look up to . Absolutely

48:09

. My last question. Um , Erica , why

48:12

do you think we're here? What's our purpose? What

48:14

are we all trying to do here?

48:15

I think make the place better. I

48:17

think our generations before us have

48:20

failed us in few areas

48:22

like climate change environment, they,

48:24

they have failed us. You know, the industrial revolution

48:27

has brought a lot of innovation and a lot of

48:30

kind of technology and other things that are good, but

48:32

they have failed us in terms of looking

48:34

after the place that we call home. So

48:37

on a grand scheme of things, you know, we

48:39

are here to make things better for the

48:42

future generations. And it doesn't

48:44

matter that somebody before us didn't do that

48:46

well, we've got a chance to do better

48:48

and on a kind of small , you know

48:50

, I always think if I had a bad day or I wasn't

48:53

a really great person yesterday, maybe

48:55

I lost my temper at somebody. Maybe

48:58

I shouted at my kids. Maybe I didn't get

49:00

home at five o'clock if bedtime

49:02

that I say that I religiously do every

49:05

single day is a better day to

49:07

make a change every single day. And

49:10

I get , as I always say to my girls, be

49:12

the change you want to see be the change you

49:14

want to see. And when I first came to

49:16

Dubai, there are many, many, many

49:18

things that I love about this place, but there

49:20

are a few things that I disagree with. There are

49:22

some things that sit uncomfortable with me and

49:25

they were one of the things that I remember saying

49:27

to my husband, that's why I would leave Dubai. That's

49:30

why I would go back to the UK and kind of bring

49:32

my girls up there. And then I thought, no,

49:34

because you know, I can be the change

49:36

that I want to see here on a very, very small

49:38

scale, but I can do something better.

49:41

Right? So I'm super fortunate

49:43

that I have two nannies who help me with

49:45

my three kids. That's how I do it because they

49:47

help me. And one of my nannies

49:49

has a four year old little girl who

49:51

lives with us. She goes to the same school as my little

49:54

one does. And for me, that's the

49:56

change that I wanna see. It's

49:58

tiny, like, you know, take on the grand scheme

50:00

of things what's happening in the world. There's so much badness

50:03

in it, but my little role

50:06

in one person's life, it's so paramount,

50:08

you know, I'm making something good. So I

50:11

don't know what the big purpose , but just

50:13

look smaller. Like what can you do good

50:15

today that will have a good impact on other

50:17

people?

50:18

No , I couldn't agree more. I think, and I've , I've always said this

50:20

, like , I don't think you need to be like Oprah or

50:22

Beyonce or bill gates to change the world. Right?

50:24

You can change your world and the environment

50:27

around you . I mean, especially look at what's going on in the world right

50:29

now. It looks so hopeless and so awful. And

50:31

I always come back to my community. How can I make

50:34

a change in the people's lives around me? And it's not , you

50:36

know, it doesn't have to be grand, huge gestures. It's,

50:38

you know, smiling at people, knowing people's names, you

50:41

know, asking them how their morning is looking people in

50:43

the eyes , smiling, you know, every

50:45

morning when I do my beach , very

50:48

slow runs, you know, everybody, we all say good

50:50

morning to one another. It's it's a very

50:52

sort of, you know, cheery atmosphere, people, 98%

50:55

people say, good morning. Some people look a bit startled, but you

50:57

know, it's that connection with other people. There's

50:59

so many ways to change the world and to change

51:01

our worlds. It doesn't have to be is enormous.

51:04

It's how you're telling me about this . It clearly,

51:06

how has left positive impact on

51:09

you that people say good morning. So you're

51:11

telling me that people go for run and say good morning. And

51:13

I'm always thinking I should be that person going

51:16

on run . I wanna see these people who say good morning,

51:18

like I'm in the fire , you know? So it's

51:20

good . It's good. You're making a change already.

51:21

Exactly, exactly. And what's super point

51:24

to end on. That was , um , such a fantastic conversation.

51:26

Thank you so much, Erica

51:27

Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me really, really enjoyed

51:30

talking to Kelly .

51:30

Yeah, me too. Thank you.

51:33

Thanks so much for listening to the good intentions

51:35

podcast. You can find links

51:37

to issues and to books that we discussed in the

51:39

show notes, and you can look for the podcast on

51:41

Instagram. It's good intentions, UAE.

51:44

Please do make sure you subscribe to the podcast. And

51:47

if you enjoy this, I so appreciate

51:49

a review on whatever platform you're using. It

51:51

helps more people find out about the podcast . See

51:54

you next time .