0:02

Welcome to good intentions, the podcast where we explore the world around us to find meaning and intention in what we do.

0:09

I'm Kelly Harvard, and I'm on a mission to spread positive stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful and connected life.

0:18

Karen Holtzman is an award-winning bestselling novelist based in Dubai.

0:22

Since she won the multi grapple prize for fiction at the Emirates literature festival, back in 2016, her gripping psychological thrillers have flown off the shelves across the world.

0:30

I've read them all and I can tell you just how good they are.

0:33

A hugely popular online course. Kickstart your book with Karen helps budding authors achieve their dream of writing a book.

0:39

And Karen was very generous with her advice and insight on how to write a novel.

0:43

Despite writing utterly terrifying books.

0:45

Karen is an absolutely lovely human being full of positive energy and tips on how to stay focused and creative in a busy and demanding world.

0:53

If you long to pursue a creative life. And if you feel that you have a novel inside of you, then this episode is for you.

0:58

I hope you enjoy it.

1:00

Hi, Karen. Thanks so much for joining me today on the podcast that we've been trying to connect for a while.

1:06

So I really appreciate you finding the time. Thank you.

1:12

That's telling novelist award-winning novelist as well.

1:15

I mean, tell us how you started writing and what drew you to being a novelist.

1:19

What made it a lifelong dream? Was it something that you fell into tell us where it all came from?

1:23

Yeah, it's been an interesting journey.

1:25

I mean, being an novelist has always been a lifelong dream, but I, so maybe it will be something I would do a little bit later when I was retired, maybe 60 or 60, something like that festival of literature competition.

1:44

So you had to submit the synopsis for the whole idea of the book.

1:52

And the judge was a renowned mystery agents.

1:55

And from the UK, I was actually looking for some public relations for my company, because I also want a company here in Dubai called travel, Inc, which is also writing more writing for travel companies, their digital platforms, their websites, that kind of thing.

2:14

So writing a novel is very, very different, but I applied first place.

2:19

And then that led on to getting at three books.

2:24

Did you have that 2000 was in a drawer somewhere or did you sort of see the competition and say, oh no, I'm going to write for the competition.

2:30

Yeah, no, I wrote for the competition deadline.

2:34

So I thought I had like a couple of weeks when I actually had like two days and at the time I was pregnant, really, I just wanted to go to bed and have a rest, but yeah, my husband's my oldest son and he said, just do it.

2:51

You know, you just never know. I actually, you know, that weekend and submitted it.

2:58

And I actually attended the prize giving as a volunteer, not even thinking that I would win and volunteer for the lit Fest.

3:07

So it was a really interesting turn of events.

3:09

Actually. It was a really, really nice surprise trust and story.

3:13

Isn't it. And I wonder how that, you know, obviously, you know, sometimes you can give yourself a long time to write something and sometimes you can give yourself a short time to write something and, and which, which route is better.

3:21

I wonder if the fact that you have to sort of just sit down and do it sort of solidified your brain somehow and made it in three years for a publisher is a very different experience to writing your first novel and being creative and not having the pressure off somebody that should get a read this, this has to be really good.

3:44

So that definitely has an impact, I think, and because I didn't think I was going to win, I just probably was more relaxed about it.

3:53

So, yeah. And I think when you're more relaxed, you do produce your best work.

3:58

So interesting. I remember your very first book, which was the perfect mother, which I absolutely loved, and we were all gripped by it.

4:03

I'm kind of in a group of friends that were all avid readers and we all read it and sort of twisty bits at the end.

4:08

And the ending is sort of so shocking, but I absolutely loved it.

4:12

And you seem like such a lovely person.

4:14

Karen, where does the inspiration for the, his terribly dark, you know, very, quite painful sometimes to read these books that you ride, but painful in a brilliant way, you know, but they deal with very deep issues and then they keep you completely gripped.

4:25

Where does all this inspiration? I think with the good mud, that first book was definitely inspired by pregnancy and the love of hope.

4:32

There's no doubt about that. It provided the strong emotion which provided then the themes to that book.

4:40

And when you become a mother, your whole world change your priorities change, I'm sure you know yourself.

4:46

So that definitely was harnessing all that emotion.

4:51

Let's say I was pregnant. So I have lots of crazy hormones, you know, around me as well.

4:55

So I suspect that, that thing, what would I do if something happens to my child now, I'm not going to say I'm a murderer or anything like that, but I am quite fascinated by the fact that we can all be capable of things that we would never imagine that we would do.

5:14

So that is a fascinating sorts of angles for me.

5:18

And that's present in all three of my books.

5:21

Yeah. There's kind of like how far are people prepared to go?

5:24

And, you know, there's a murderer inside everybody, if you know the situation and then the perfect storm.

5:30

I think that's the really interesting element to explore.

5:33

Yeah, for sure. And timing as well. I think that if you have the right set of circumstances and the timing, anything can happen, I think locatable are things that we never would have mentioned.

5:44

So yeah, I find that fascinating.

5:46

And what I find is, you know, taking the ordinary, I mean, you know, the good mother is very much about an ordinary family.

5:54

So, you know, taking that, ultimately it's, it's flipping it on its head to find the extraordinary is something I enjoy finding and researching and thinking about it's a competition winner and it's the bestseller.

6:06

So I'm sure that lots of people agree with you as well.

6:09

So, um, yeah. Fantastic. It's, it's so interesting.

6:11

All the issues that have explored in that book. So you're, you're a woman with a mission statement, which I love, I love little more than a mission statement.

6:17

You want to write gripping psychological thrillers that entertain readers allow them to relax and escape to another world, which I think given everything we've sort of been through in the last year is this perhaps a specialty person.

6:28

And how important do you think this escape is?

6:30

And that escape that reading can give us, especially given everything that we're living through at the time?

6:34

Yeah, I would say critical now, but I think all my life, and I know you are a massive reader books have got me through tough times, challenging time, any kind of time period, to actually, I would say books have been there for me to, to escape, to relax, to laugh, whatever it is that I want to create.

6:55

You know, they, they change our emotions, they change our state.

6:59

And I think if you have a problem, you know, no deaths and when someone somewhere has been through that and has written a book about it, you know, so escapism is important.

7:08

I think it's about giving your mind a bit of a rest, a break, if you will.

7:13

And I find it so relaxing to be transported to a different world.

7:16

So that's really what I wanted to pass on to the reader as well.

7:20

So really capture their attention and just give them a break from everyday life.

7:24

Even if that break is a little bit terrifying, sometimes interested in this, because I might also say you seem like such a lovely, positive uplifting sort of uplifted human being.

7:37

And then you're writing about these really dark, dark things.

7:40

It's something that I often wonder about as an actress, as you know, when they take on a role for a certain period of time, like how does it affect you when you're writing about these sort of darker issues and how do you sort of manage to reconcile or co compartmentalize maybe sort of what you're writing about with them, you know, coming out of wherever you're writing and putting the tea on and then having to do work and like living a normal life.

8:00

Yeah. I think every book is different.

8:04

And probably the Goodman that I would say was probably my phone was therapy, you know, the shock of motherhood.

8:11

So I think the book was more of a coping mechanism for me with the home, which looks more at really quite dark issues.

8:21

I struggled with that, for that book.

8:23

I always said, I won't focus so much on such dark themes again, because I really did struggle to separate the two, especially when your research leads you to things that actually happens in real life.

8:35

I mean, that's very, very tough. So yes, the, my third book, the perfect lie, I focus more on a dilemma rather than, you know, more of the housekeeping issues.

8:46

So I think the answer to the question is it's not always easy to separate, you know, and I don't always want to separate actually to me, I need these important to stay within that world that I'm building because when you're constantly switching, but the more I write the best way become actually going into the walls and coming back down today because I own three children as well, that they can quickly distract you get used to it, I suppose.

9:16

Yeah. That's so interesting because I've been, I mean, you'll know even as a reader, I know if I read, I've just read a couple of really horrifyingly, brilliant thrillers, and I actually thought nine, I need to stop now.

9:25

Like they just stayed with me for weeks and now I'm like, okay, now I just need to read like something much lighter.

9:30

Like something's funny, you know, something or a memoir or something that's completely different because to constantly be in that kind of that space where something that's heavy is isn't always a good place to be, especially depending on whatever else is happening in the world as well.

9:42

Like all the issues that we're facing is sometimes you need something different, like a palette cleanser, maybe it is good vibe.

9:48

Can you say that? Because I have always meant to me less, I've always been psychological crimes, but during the pandemic, I couldn't, it was quite as straight and I was really drawn to more uplifting fiction, more personal development, more self-help that kind of thing.

10:05

So I think it definitely depends what's going on in your life and a palate cleanser, I think is a great way to describe it because it's impossible to keep me doing the same job all the time and not be impacted by it.

10:18

Yeah, no, I completely agree.

10:21

And tell us a bit about your writing process. I mean, do you have, obviously you mentioned you've got a day job, you run a business when you're not writing books.

10:27

How do you physically fit all of this in? Um, so I'm looking now.

10:31

I actually write novels pretty much.

10:34

Full-time in my business, which I set up in 2011.

10:38

I actually have an amazing managing partner who takes care of them, does a lot of the heavy lifting.

10:45

So yeah, I mean, that's a real support having that.

10:49

I need just allows me the time in the mornings to, you know, when I am my most creative, I it's a bit like the gym.

10:57

If it doesn't get done, first thing in the morning, it's not going to get done.

11:00

So I have to be really strict with my diary in the first few hours of the day, I will dedicate to writing.

11:08

Oh, that's seven. Yeah. So you can't, you can't sit around in your gym gear all day thinking I'm going to go at some point you have to sit down and rides and get it done.

11:15

Yeah. And sometimes especially if my motivation is a little bit, I'll actually keep my laptop finally beds.

11:21

So I just have to, like, I don't even have scout bed, pull it out and get going, but you know, after the school run and things like that anyway, so I'm a moving person.

11:34

Oh, that's great. Well, I've learned to be a bit more of a morning person because I have a child.

11:38

So I have to be, because she goes up and we have to function, but I'm not naturally in that space at all.

11:43

My husband is he got something like 4 45 or something ridiculous every morning.

11:47

I long. I mean, I know it was a bit ridiculous, isn't it? I said, he's not a Navy seal, but yeah, I learned to be more of a morning person to and fit in with them is what it is.

11:55

I love the thought of you sitting and writing perhaps in your dressing gown, bed, having this lovely creative space.

12:03

Well, no really terrible.

12:06

But I think you just to do whatever it takes to just get it done.

12:10

And once you start and you're in the flow, then it's easier.

12:16

But that first few minutes is tough and you look like you're in a lovely sort of space.

12:21

Is this where you write? Do you have a dedicated space?

12:23

Like, you know, when you're not in bed, if you're own bed, you get up and go to a different space and then sit down and that's, that's what you, yeah.

12:30

So I worked from home. I have my own study here and I have two sons and my husband.

12:36

So the rest of the house is very, very masculine.

12:39

So try to make this as, you know, as feminist, as, as I can.

12:43

And I like to come here sometimes I'll go out as well, just to a coffee shop or the lobby of a hotel, which you're lucky enough to do that in Dubai.

12:54

Sometimes sit by the beach. So I do change it up a bit.

12:57

I do find it quite hard just to be locked in a room the whole time.

13:01

Yeah, I can imagine. And I'm sure you get asked this all the time, but where do your ideas come from?

13:05

I'm sure. You know, you had to sit down and then, and then they come, like you you've mentioned sort of moving around locations.

13:10

And then is there anything else that you do that you feel sort of helps things spark in your mind?

13:14

Could they come from anywhere? Uh, they do.

13:16

They can come at any time. So I normally carry like a notebook around with me.

13:20

A lot of it comes from, I mean the last three books, definitely home from my experience with motherhood and motherhood is a strong theme in all of them, you know, prior to the pandemic they come from travels.

13:32

So the book I'm working on at the moment is actually set in Italy.

13:36

They come from, you know, the news and I also loved thinking about dilemmas.

13:42

What would you do if scenario? And what I'll usually do is I'll have like a whole page of different ideas and possibilities and I'll try and put two together to come up with something unique because everything has been done before.

13:55

But once you start having different ideas together, then you know, that can create something that can face.

14:02

That sounds super interesting. Sort of like, just like just playing around with things to see what could come out.

14:07

Yeah. Well putting two or three things together.

14:11

The interesting. Absolutely.

14:14

So, you know, it was a lifelong dream to sort of become an author.

14:18

How does it feel now that you've done this?

14:20

I mean, you can stop, I'm sure. You know, you've had three amazing books, but how does it feel?

14:24

Do you still feel motivated to write? I mean, it's, it's a lifelong dream for a lot of people, so I'd love to know how you feel about yeah.

14:30

I think, you know, when my first book came out in 2017, I actually think to the UK just to see in the shops, that's how excited I was.

14:41

That was an incredible feeling. And you start to get a bit giddy and stuffs do things like rearranging all the shelves and that kind of thing.

14:49

People passing by it's tremendously exciting.

14:56

And I think when you spend almost a year working on a project like that, then that is lovely.

15:02

And you try and make the most of it really because, you know, it's got to sustain for the next year.

15:07

So yeah, it's definitely the most exciting prospect.

15:12

I'm sure it must be the law that if you have a book in a bookshop, you must go and put your book at the front.

15:16

I mean, that's just got to be a law somewhere. I think we can all agree that just going off it, how did your family, so I'm sure it sounds like you have a very supportive husband and how did your family react?

15:28

I mean, do the kids even know that mom is this amazing award-winning novelist story, you know, does, as it passed them by, but do you think they know?

15:34

Yeah, they do now. I think at the time with my first book, not so much, but I do remember my youngest son going into a group in Dubai, in the bookshop and he was heading straight for the pet, the pig section, and then he stopped and he said my name and he's like, well, that's you.

15:54

And that was the moment he actually got sick, but I wrote books, but both of my boys, they don't like writing at all.

16:04

Um, yeah.

16:10

Yeah. When you're a kid, so many exciting things, I mean, I'm amazed, you know, no offense, Karen, that he picked her, he noticed your book when there was pepper pig on offer, you know, like, okay.

16:20

I think it was the, uh, the letter of type of pig is strong.

16:28

I know all about that. So you said that it's, oh, you believe that it's really important to surround yourself with like-minded people, which I really love.

16:34

Cause I, I feel the same, you know, whether it's sort of business or personal and people that have got that kind of same energy.

16:40

How do you do that here? And what are the sort of people that you try to be around and stay around?

16:44

Well, you know, I think Dubai in itself is a place and I've lived here for quite a few years, but find this fine optimistic spirit in Dubai, anything is possible feel.

16:55

I think the city attracts those types of people anyway.

16:59

So, you know, just from being in person and being around the city, I think you can meet lots of people at that, but you know, social media is such a fantastic tool for this.

17:08

There's so many amazing groups online, which has been particularly useful during a pandemic I feel.

17:16

And I've also used in the past coaches as well.

17:20

So coaches for my business. And I think when you start to work with people like that, then they introduce you to all sorts of new ideas and people, and Dubai is a big networking city.

17:36

There's so much out there. It's just about finding your tribe and going out and making the most of it.

17:42

Really. Yeah, no, I agree.

17:44

I interviewed, um, Dr. Yasser, grr, he wrote the shake CEO and um, he worked very closely Mohammad and he just had a really interesting take on Dubai.

17:52

And the fact that everybody here is an ex-pat and he sort of said like, nobody here will ever do a mediocre job because whatever job you're doing is in some way, like building a country and a nation and how exciting that is and how dynamic the city is trapped.

18:05

It was really interesting that, you know, everybody in whatever you're doing, you're somehow contributing to something and we're all, we're all doing the same thing, right.

18:11

Doesn't matter what job it is. So, um, do you feel that, um, Dubai has helped you in terms of creativity and content and doing what you do?

18:20

Definitely. I think mainly so the fact that it was, you know, divine, his dedication to literature and that dedication to reading and hosting events such as the festival, they gave me the opportunity to have the opportunity.

18:36

Now let's major review your work in the first place.

18:39

It's amazing. Nevermind. So I think the fact that Dubai really focuses on the importance of leading is great.

18:46

And, you know, as the city has developed and so many, you know, creative hopes coming up and the city is also very fast to implement as well.

18:55

So yeah, I do.

18:57

I find it that the speed of it quite inspiring sometimes by Tyree, but mostly inspiring about just how things can happen so quickly.

19:07

So yeah. Dubai is really important in terms of inspiration.

19:10

Yeah. I think you're so right. In terms of the creative industries and things happening at speed, it's a really exciting place to be, even though yes.

19:17

It can sometimes feel a little bit like it's trying to wear us out.

19:21

There's a lot, a lot to be said for it at the same time.

19:24

Um, so you mentioned speed and timing. Like how long does it take you to write a book from start to finish?

19:28

Is that because the publisher asks you to do it within a certain timeframe or in an ideal world?

19:32

Would you like to take like 10 years or what? I wrote a book?

19:39

So my, my publishing contract was to produce a book PA, which I'll be honest with you, especially if it was my best, best, best be books, but I do think, you know, everything expands to the timeframe you give it.

19:55

The full book I'm working on now is actually taking me double that time two years.

20:01

And I think, you know, the pandemic has been a part of that and it's been tough.

20:06

I would have rather have done it within a year to be honest, because I think the danger is you start to lose the flow.

20:12

You start to lose your characters. I don't know.

20:15

It's, um, can't really explain it properly, but I think you need that.

20:20

And you know, rather than that, stop, start, stop, start.

20:26

That's personally how I worked. So what I found is to try and do, you know, a couple of months planning, I think planning can really help you write quickly, really help your book pay off in general.

20:38

And then I'll write the assess draft very, very quickly within three to six months and then go back again and then start editing.

20:46

And so that tends to be the process if you will.

20:50

But I do find the more I plan the better the outcome or the less I have to do.

20:55

Do you have like a sort of JK Rowling wall of post-its with like string, like a CSI type wall?

21:01

Or do you just have it on a piece of paper or is it in your head? How do you do it?

21:04

I'm going to be really boring here and tell you it's all on the next house spreadsheet.

21:07

Isn't really on an Excel spreadsheet and I have different tabs for each chapter and carrots, route lines.

21:19

And it's just all in one big place on gosh idea car.

21:24

And I never would have thought you would have said an Excel spreadsheet, but that's fantastic.

21:28

Yeah. So the whole book is there and that document with all the chapters of the book.

21:31

Wow. Yeah. So the whole, the chapters will be at the top and then I'll outline each chapter and then I'll have another tab, a tab and then another tab carried.

21:44

So, and then I'll have notes and then I'll have ideas.

21:47

Yeah. Just, just to sort of keep it all together because once you have a post-it notes and then you have a file here, cause it's been documented, you know, 18,000 words, plus it's a lot of details to keep track and you know, you don't want somebody wearing a rent talk in one scene and then next, you know, they're in something completely different.

22:07

So it's those small details that contribute.

22:10

So yeah. I don't remember having a haircut or driving that car or doesn't actually who does this child belong to?

22:21

So you do have to keep track of it and things like people that like people's names, the second names places, you know, is it a red brick building in the seed or is it concrete?

22:33

What, what is it, if you come back to it on a different day, you will trust me.

22:40

Interesting. I haven't even talked about this, which is probably why you were, uh, bestselling novelist and I'm not.

22:45

So, I mean, if people do have, you know, I'm sure there's lots of people, you know, we see them at the lip fast, you have people that love books and they feel that there's a novel inside them.

22:53

I mean, what tips do you have if people just don't know where to start?

22:55

So how can they get going? And is there anything that you would give them?

23:00

I get this question a lot and it's one of the reasons I set up my digital polls kickstart your book.

23:06

So this is really, I call it my pandemic project because it was really a time where I used to pull everything together in sort of an eight step process.

23:16

And you know, everything from coming up with the idea all the way through to publishing, because it can be really overwhelming.

23:23

So I think if you break it down into bite size, it really helps finish that first draft.

23:29

I think, first of all, it's important to commit to writing, to actually connect to it because so many people say they want to write a book, but then the reality is quite different.

23:41

So I think that commitment is really important.

23:44

And second of all, I think you have to write, even if it's just 10 minutes, a day, 15 minutes a day, so simple and yet so easy to just not do exactly, exactly, but you know, it can be a journal, it can be brainstorming, it can be anything but practicing that day habits, for instance, the muscle and you'll find yourself writing longer and longer, you know, I remember, and it doesn't also say, no, I, right now it's like, oh gosh, that's a lot.

24:15

You know, it was still getting 500, 600 and thinking that was a good day, but it's amazing what you can do when you start to really build up the practice, the habits, I'm sure you must sometimes wake up and just not feel like it.

24:28

You know, maybe your heart's not in it. You don't have an idea.

24:30

You can't see what's going to happen. Like what do you do when you don't want to do it, do it anyway.

24:35

Or do you ever give yourself a break or how does that work?

24:37

I try not to. I mean, I will in the future to look forward to, so, okay, I'm gonna write for four weeks and then have a day off or whatever.

24:47

But no, that system works quite well for me because it works really well with my kids as well.

24:53

You know? So I sort of ride myself, you know, just do this one chapter and then you can see in a Hotmail, but whatever it is, it can be something small or something big.

25:03

But the railroad system does work quite well.

25:07

Hi, Karen, his own reward reward chart is just out of shorts.

25:13

Yeah. What else do I do on days that I don't, I just do it.

25:18

I think when it's your job, you have a different take on it.

25:21

When you're doing it for a hobby. Then again, it's a little bit different, but this is my job.

25:27

And I think you have to be a professional and you have to think of your readers and they've committed to reading all of your books.

25:35

I have redesigned read all three books and like, when is your next song coming out?

25:39

So that's hugely motivating, I think, to have leaders who and loyalty.

25:45

Yeah. That's a great way of looking at it. And I assume that your publisher is kind of like knocking on the door, every intimacy period saying, hello, Karen, how's it coming along and making sure you're carrying it publications for the downs.

25:59

So I think if there was ever a time, take your time, it's now, but the insights.

26:05

So Pete, by the end of June, my age, that's a nice milestone to achieve.

26:13

Well, I was going to ask you, so book number four, where are we with that?

26:16

And so June is when it goes to the publisher. Is that the final version or is it, have you then got to sort of work on lots of edits or yeah.

26:22

So next month the book will be finished as I finish with it and it will then my agents who will review it and give their take on that.

26:33

And then it goes out into the publishing world.

26:37

So, but how long does the rewriting take and, and making edits, I mean, is that whole sort of beast in itself or is that quite quick process?

26:46

Does it, does it depend on the book? It depends on the book.

26:49

And I think so for example, with my second book, my publisher sent back a huge amount of edits to the point where I had to rewrite like a third of the book.

26:59

And I learned that and that's with that book, I knew I hadn't done enough planning.

27:04

So with my third book, it went much smoother because I planned a lot more in advance.

27:11

So I think the more you plan, the best idea you have in the beginning, the stronger the outcome, the less edits you have to do.

27:20

Interesting. Now I was listening to, um, I think it was maybe Graham Naughton being interviewed about writing his book.

27:25

And he said, not the first time he wrote, he thought, you know, I finished the book now when he hooked by and sent it off and then that it came back and he was like, oh, I'm supposed to buy this.

27:34

I've never really considered it myself either. In terms of how much extra work like the book, the manuscript is perhaps just the beginning and then it's fine tuned a great deal or not the agent, if you are a traditional publisher, does a whole, a whole lot of work on it.

27:50

So, um, there's um, incredible amounts of efforts that go on with the sub editor, the copy editor, people who have such an eye to detail.

28:01

I mean, it's incredible, really what they can do.

28:03

So yeah, so much goes into after, you know, the writing has finished.

28:09

It's that interesting? Is that just port cost, obviously it's all about good intentions.

28:14

Um, like if anyone's listening and they've got a sort of more traditional corporate job, but they want to be a bit more creative in the way that you did and you sort of incorporated or incorporated and stepped away from that a little bit.

28:23

How, how can they incorporate more creativity into their lives and perhaps pursue something that is a bit different?

28:30

Um, I'm not sort of the regular nine to five. I think festival, I would say, you know, progress, not perfection.

28:37

You know, they, I think the biggest killer of creativity is stress.

28:40

So, you know, make sure whether it's writing or whether it's art or whether it's prep, whatever it is that you enjoy it, you actually enjoy it and look forward to it.

28:49

And then just think a little and often, you know, it's so much more manageable students, 10, 15 minutes a day, you know, rather than thinking, I'm going to take the whole weekend and make 10 chats.

29:00

And I know it doesn't sound like a lot, does it really 15 minutes a day, but I think that, you know, two things happen first.

29:06

You start to build that really important mighty muscle, which builds discipline, which is the most important skill, in my opinion, for writing a book.

29:14

And then those regular blocks of time, they really add up.

29:18

And I recently wrote a blog post called how to write a book when you're busy.

29:23

And I referenced the author, Claire cook, who wrote a novel called, um, Muslim dogs.

29:30

It's quite a few years old now, but the book was so successful and it got turned into a film starring Diane Lane and John.

29:37

So she was a parent and the only regular time was five minutes while waiting to pick up her children from school and that, and she wrote the whole novel in her car waiting for her kids in school.

29:53

Well then my goodness, what am I doing with my life?

29:58

Yeah. I should have read about 50 books by now. These five minutes.

30:00

Lots of my goodness. Wow. That's incredible.

30:03

Good for her. Interesting.

30:06

You know, you think, oh, five minutes I'll do anything in five minutes, but it's regular and often, and literally each day, I think it's a nice way to do it.

30:15

And that's, that's really interesting because you're touching on something else is like distractions and time wasters.

30:20

I mean, do you ever sort of say to yourself, right. No social media for like the next two weeks, because I've got to do the final push.

30:25

I had a friend who, um, got her other friend to change her passwords to her social media.

30:30

So she couldn't get into them because she knew that even if she deleted them from her phone and she would still check, obviously we're only human.

30:34

So I did have a friend that did that when she was on a deadline.

30:37

I want to, do you ever do anything like that? Does it, is there any sort of extreme steps that you have to take or are you just super disciplined?

30:42

Yeah. I mean, Jerry, my rights sessions, I do put my phone on, do not disturb and I, I will turn off distractions and stuff.

30:51

My children have in the house. I have to actually sit them down and saying, I'm going to go and do this, but no, I wouldn't do it for like two weeks or anything like that.

31:01

But just because I know my concentration is around 90 minutes.

31:05

So once I reached 90 minutes, then I know when is it then the law of diminishing returns or something after that, I need a break.

31:14

And that's when my cup of tea and help notes come in and then I'll do another 90 minute session.

31:21

So I'll try with the 90 minute sessions a day.

31:24

Yeah. But I think distraction is, I mean, it's just an ever increasing issue that everybody's facing right now.

31:32

I think with them, I mean, you mentioned with the pandemic sort of wanting to read a different genre.

31:37

I think some people sort of struggled to read at all. And then at the beginning it was hard to concentrate.

31:41

It's just sort of sitting and looking lucky a book. I remember for me anyway, the beginning was a little difficult.

31:46

It changed as we went through and I'm pretty set up in the character reading, but yeah, I think we've lived through such a strange time.

31:52

I think we need to be a little kind to ourselves when it comes to getting too tough on ourselves about how we're choosing to sort of soothe ourselves perhaps from in longterm.

32:01

It's not the answer, but, um, at one point last year is whatever gets you through.

32:05

Right. So yeah, that was definitely the case.

32:08

And it's hard.

32:10

There's no way you can escape it.

32:13

So I think if you completely ban it, you're just going to crave it more.

32:17

That's what happens to me. So I just try and block and then try and focus on that time.

32:24

And I think having kids as well has made me much more aware of being present and not having this phone with me all the time, things like that.

32:32

So kids are quite grounding in that respect, I think.

32:35

Yeah. True. I agree. I agree. So someone had mentioned pandemic work all through sort of pretty precious times and we've all got a lot on our plates.

32:45

You're definitely juggling a lot. So how do you manage to sort of stay grounded and connected to what's important to you?

32:51

Yeah. I have a lot of support. Definitely.

32:53

My husband is very supportive and my parents are very supportive.

32:57

My mom is actually reading drafts of my book right now.

33:00

So I do have a lot of support.

33:03

I love that your mom is reading your draft. That's amazing.

33:07

So, uh, you know, I'm very grateful for all of that, you know, gratitude.

33:12

I think it's just, if the pandemic is towards anything, it's just how lucky we can be compared to others.

33:19

I mean, people will always have it worse and better.

33:22

So I think, you know, that's, that's one thing to remember it, to be honest, what I do, it's not saving lives, you know?

33:30

So at the end of the day, it's something I'm looking up to do.

33:35

I enjoy and I just try and give it my best when I can.

33:38

I think I've also sort of tend more to like probably the rest of the world during this time symptom, more appreciation of the simplest things in life, you know, the cooking and the family time and all of that.

33:53

And so I hope to carry that on.

33:56

Sure. Yeah, no. Agreed. What type of critic is your mom?

33:59

When she's reading the manuscripts? I have to ask her, she kind, she tried and Polish constructive or she brutal.

34:05

She's pretty good. Actually. She's straight talking definitely.

34:10

But she does do it in a nice way. Yeah.

34:12

Cause that's, that's got a whole lot of potential to, to go down the road.

34:16

So you might want to go down if it's not come on mom bit kind it to me.

34:22

So obviously I know that you're a huge reader and you love books.

34:25

Can you tell me if there's any sort of specific books that have really meant something to you that have shaped your life or that are favorites that you go back to?

34:32

Because we love to talk about books and this podcast and books twice.

34:39

So I don't always just because I think there's so many books out there for me, I've always taken me down a new path.

34:45

So I tend to remember the first book that has introduced me to something new.

34:50

So for example, like this four hour work week, that really was an inspiration made to look into entrepreneurship and was a big factor in setting up my business.

35:01

You know, the more Crusoe this Ferrari was my first foray into personal development.

35:06

So I was quite blown away with that because it was a new concept for me at the time travel, I think is a big one.

35:13

So books such as like shams ran by Gregory Lovitz, which heavily features Mumbai wild swans by John Chan that inspired my travel and ex-pat lives in the far east.

35:25

For sure. So yeah, there are very memorable books for me, but I like Q so much that sometimes I do struggle to remember.

35:34

Thank goodness, but good reads. That's all I can say.

35:37

Yes, of course. We'll have to connect parents.

35:39

I'm on good reads as well. So I'd love to connect and see what you're reading.

35:42

I've got a few friends on there, the four hour work week, you know, Tim Ferriss.

35:45

He has an amazing podcast. Yes.

35:47

That's some amazing, but sometimes it's quite American centric obviously because he's American and some of the guests are people that I've never heard of.

35:55

He doesn't really deep dive. There's sometimes like two hours long, the interviews that he does with people.

35:59

So yeah, it's really interesting to see how he's come from this one book that never sort of said it was so interesting and so different and did so well and caught people's attention.

36:06

And now I think, I think he's got like the number one or two ranked podcast in the world, like it's him and cover the house anyway.

36:12

Yeah. It's super interesting that how he's gone, gone from that to that really fascinating guy.

36:17

So yeah, that's some super books that I've read free of the Bible, but read wild swans.

36:21

A friend has given me wild swarms. I do need to read actually they all sound super.

36:25

Just the last question I like to ask people, what do you think is your greatest achievement?

36:28

You've, you know, you've achieved so much with, you know, your writing and your novels.

36:31

Is there one thing that you would say is what you feel is it means the most to you and it's the greatest part of your life because they don't tend to think much.

36:42

I suppose personally it would be my children.

36:44

I learned a lot from them every day and it still blows my mind that living, breathing for people professionally, I would say, you know, living in different countries and being able to make a living from job that is really my passion.

37:02

I think a lot of people don't always feel they can do that.

37:07

That's probably something that I'm proud to be able to say that I do.

37:12

And you know, when I say I'm an author, it still gives me quite right to relish.

37:19

It. Shouldn't be like, you know, shied away from, I think sometimes where we try to downplay things, don't we as women, but yeah, just to have achieved.

37:27

This is incredible. Thank you for all the tips about writing.

37:32

I'm sure there'll be hugely useful and I can't wait for your new book.

37:38

So second half of the year, we can expect to see it on bookshelves.

37:43

And if you have many listeners who are aspiring ulcers and every week I send out writing tips, so if they want some writing inspiration, then there's lots of tips on that.com/rating.

37:58

And they can just go on and have a look amazing. I'll put that in the show notes as well so that people can find it.

38:02

And, um, maybe we'll see you in migraine days. Re-imagine your books towards the end of it quite so much.

38:11

Thank you.

38:13

Thanks so much for listening to the good intentions podcast.

38:16

You can find links to issues and to books that we discussed in the show notes.

38:20

And you can look for the podcast on Instagram. It's good intentions, UAE.

38:24

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38:26

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38:31

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