0:00

That's when everything started to click for me a little bit

0:02

more . And I feel like the first

0:04

time she was diagnosed I was really hopeful , and

0:07

then that second time was really when everything

0:10

started to click .

0:19

Hey , welcome back to another episode of the Day After

0:21

. On today's episode we have Stephen

0:24

, the brother of a previous guest , and he

0:26

opens up his side of losing his mom

0:28

while he was in college . Stephen shared how

0:30

he struggled to process his grief and opened

0:32

up his journey to us . Also , we have

0:34

exciting news we have launched the Day After

0:36

Plus . This is a way to help financially support

0:38

the show and the work Ashley and I do and

0:40

support our guests . If it's in your heart to

0:42

help , go to thedayaftercom

0:44

slash plus that's P

0:47

L U S and become

0:49

an official supporter of the show . Thank

0:51

you so much . Now grab your favorite blanket

0:53

, curl up on the couch and enjoy the show .

1:04

As you have Mary Grace on . You spoke with my sister just

1:06

about . I lost my mother at

1:08

the age of 19 to a glioblastoma

1:10

or brain cancer . You know she

1:13

was sick for about two years

1:15

, a little over two years

1:17

, so about two and a half years . It

1:22

was weird . I think

1:24

as time goes on and you , as you

1:26

go through this grief battle

1:28

I guess you would call it not even a battle , but you meet people

1:31

from all different walks of life . It was really

1:33

hard for me to find a way to connect with

1:35

people who , whether

1:37

that be they lost their great-grandparent

1:39

, They'd be like I'm so sorry for your loss

1:42

. I know what it's like . I'm sorry about

1:44

this and it was so hard for me and

1:46

when I found your podcast and Ashley

1:49

kind of introduced me to it and

1:51

let me know through LinkedIn . Just I was like

1:53

, wow , this is really cool . And I started

1:55

listening to some episodes and it

1:57

really helped me in terms of like being

2:00

able to connect with somebody who had gone

2:02

through it and had gone through a similar circumstance

2:04

and I think that

2:06

was what I was missing for so long where I

2:09

felt so alone in my

2:11

journey of mourning

2:13

my mom and I didn't

2:15

really know how to talk about it . I didn't

2:17

know who to talk to . I

2:19

didn't know where to even start

2:21

because there was so much . I felt like you

2:24

kind of touched on that in the last episode . I've

2:26

heard in previous episodes as well , cjs . It's

2:28

like when you're in that moment , you're

2:30

kind of just like you're going through

2:32

it , you're just going through the motions and you're just trying to get

2:34

through the next day . You're not really thinking about

2:36

like what's going on right then and there . And

2:39

that's when you , when it's all over

2:42

, that's when you kind of start thinking about it .

2:44

Yeah , I'm getting choked up . That's

2:47

awesome that it's been a resource

2:49

for you and I appreciate you sharing that

2:51

with us . You were early in

2:53

high school , right ? Or did she

2:55

first get diagnosed when you were 19 ?

2:57

So she got , she passed when I was 19

2:59

and she got diagnosed when I see there's

3:02

16 or 17 . I

3:04

had just turned 17 . And it was

3:06

a really tough time and because you know

3:08

, I had just lost my grandfather

3:11

, my papa , to cancer

3:13

as well , and you know

3:15

he was 84 . He lived a really good life and I

3:18

was a super , super close with him . So I took I took

3:20

that one really hard and I took his loss really

3:22

hard . And then you know all that

3:24

was going on and I remember , you

3:26

know my

3:29

papa was in the hospital , rgh , and

3:31

I got home from school one day

3:33

and my mom and dad my mom was a nurse and my

3:35

, you know , my dad is in the medical field as well as a primary

3:37

care physician I remember , in home one day

3:39

, nobody was home and that was weird

3:41

because usually my mom worked till around 330

3:44

. And you know I get a call from my dad saying you know , hey

3:46

, you know this is an April , you know we're RGH

3:49

, and I'm like , oh my God , you know did

3:51

, did papa die ? And he's just like no

3:53

, no , it's your mom . And I was just like it's

3:55

mom . I'm just like what ? And

3:57

he's just like , yeah , mom , you know , she , what

4:00

happened was she was at work and , unfortunately

4:02

, you know she , she , she , she

4:04

lost her speech and they thought she was having a stroke

4:07

and I was just like in shock

4:09

because I was expecting it to be my papa .

4:11

Right .

4:12

So then you know , fast forward and we

4:14

find out she has , you know , brain

4:16

cancer going into the

4:19

summer of my senior year , right

4:21

around June time we find out . And

4:23

I think for me , just at that

4:26

age , it was really difficult

4:28

for me to grasp . I

4:30

think I'd never really let

4:33

that sink in . Personally

4:35

, at times , looking back in those

4:38

moments , I kind of never

4:40

really . I think maybe I don't know if I

4:42

was in denial or if I was just

4:46

trying to get through , you know , but I'll

4:48

never forget the day of her first brain

4:50

surgery . You know it was about a five hour surgery and

4:53

my buddies all picked me up and

4:55

we all went to meals like halfway through

4:57

the surgery and just to

4:59

kind of get me out . And my friends , they were just great

5:01

and just kind of coming back . I , I

5:04

think I was a little naive and just young to to

5:07

not . I thought that maybe that

5:09

this might not be as bad as

5:11

the doctor's thing , you know , it might not be bad

5:13

. And I think my sisters

5:15

and my dad both knew , like you

5:17

know , something , something was really wrong . But

5:19

I guess I just didn't think

5:22

about it at first . You know too , hard .

5:24

Yeah , when that happened

5:26

, you're home , you get the call and

5:28

you're going into your senior year this summer

5:31

of your senior year . Like you said

5:33

, you didn't really let that sink in . Do

5:35

you remember ever having conversations

5:37

with your friends when they first started happening ? Or like

5:40

who did you reach out to to

5:42

maybe consciously or unconsciously reach

5:45

out for support ?

5:46

Yeah , I mean , I remember , you know , I have a

5:48

. I have a really good friend , his name's Tanner , and I just

5:50

remember when my mom , when

5:52

they found out it was cancerous , because

5:54

at first , you know , they thought , you know , maybe this

5:56

isn't cancerous , maybe it's benign and we can get , get

5:58

this out and she'll be fine . And then I

6:00

think , like a few days later , I forget

6:02

my dad coming out and we're all sitting

6:05

, you know , sitting outside and my dad , just

6:07

you know , starts having a really hard time

6:09

with everything and tells us , you know it's cancerous

6:11

. And I just remember just feeling

6:13

, like the sinking feeling , and you know , in

6:16

my body and I called my buddy , tanner

6:18

, and I was like , hey , you know , can I

6:20

come over ? You know , can I

6:22

just come over and play ping pong ? That's what

6:24

we love to do is play ping pong . And we

6:26

hung out , we played ping pong in the basement and you

6:29

know , I didn't really talk about it , I

6:31

just was like this really stinks . You know , I didn't

6:33

, I didn't really think about the 10

6:35

steps I had , and so I guess , like

6:37

for me and to answer that question , is

6:39

I just really I really did rely on my friends and my friends

6:41

were amazing during those really difficult

6:43

times in my life and

6:46

they were always really there to help

6:48

me and also just be there

6:50

to talk if I wanted to . You know , they never forced

6:52

it on me . And then I also feel

6:54

like I really went to , you know , some of my aunts

6:56

. You know my aunts , my dad's , my

6:58

dad's sisters . They were phenomenal during

7:01

the whole entire process and I

7:03

would go over there and talk with them and they were really helpful

7:05

.

7:06

Yeah , I remember Mary mentioning your aunts

7:08

. I think at one point that's pretty

7:11

incredible , that you were able

7:13

to find people to talk to

7:15

, or I think it's incredible that

7:17

you were able to recognize the need to

7:19

talk , so

7:21

that last year of high school , then the senior

7:23

year which is supposed to be this amazing

7:26

, like pivotal moment in every you know adolescence

7:29

life , as you're moving towards adulthood

7:32

and figuring out your life , do you feel

7:34

like it changed your

7:36

course in life , or

7:38

how did it change that course

7:40

? That's ?

7:41

a really good question . I think the

7:44

way I always say

7:46

this is like I feel like I had to grow up quick . I

7:48

feel like I had to figure things

7:51

out . All my friends were , you know , going

7:53

to college tours and doing all that , and I

7:56

maybe , when I won college tour with my mom and

7:58

my dad , and it was actually the college that I ended

8:00

up going to , but you

8:02

know , all my friends were trying to figure out their college , they were going

8:05

away , they were on vacation and I

8:07

was just kind of at home , you know , helping

8:09

with my dad or doing what I could , you know

8:11

, to help out , and also trying to

8:13

live my life too at the same time , which is hard to find

8:16

that balance . But I really

8:18

felt like that first week of senior year was

8:20

really when I realized , okay , it's time

8:22

to kind of grow up a little bit

8:24

and like own up . Because

8:26

you know , at

8:28

that time my mom was at Pittsburgh at the

8:30

hospital , she had a series

8:32

of grand mal seizures and you

8:35

know I went down there

8:37

for about a week and I stayed in a hotel with my dad and

8:39

then my dad was like , you know , you got to get back for the first

8:41

day of school and I was like , dad , I don't want to

8:43

go back , like I want to be here in Pittsburgh with you . And

8:45

he's like well , this is what mom would

8:47

want . And you know , at the time my mom

8:49

was non-communicative and you

8:51

know she couldn't communicate

8:53

well with us , but I know

8:56

that she wouldn't want me there . My mom was tough and

8:58

the one thing she really cared about

9:00

was , you know , my education and also just making

9:02

sure I was going to school

9:05

and being with my friends and that's really what

9:07

she cared about . So I remember my

9:09

aunt drove me back and this is really when

9:11

, like you know , to answer your question , this is really

9:13

when things kind of got heavy . For me , I think

9:15

, is driving back and I had

9:17

the flu , I must have caught at the hospital

9:19

or something , and I swear , laying in the backseat

9:22

of my aunt's car and just like so sick , you know

9:24

, like 103 degree fever , just terrible

9:26

.

9:26

And all I wanted was you know , being like a mama's

9:29

boy .

9:29

You know , all I want was like my mom , just to

9:31

like take care of me you know , and

9:33

I'm the worst person to be sick around

9:35

like , oh my God .

9:37

I'm terrible Like all I did was

9:39

complain . At least you're

9:41

aware . At least you're aware you know like

9:43

.

9:43

I've got a bad man cold . But

9:46

I just remember coming home and , like my aunt

9:48

, you know , she dropped me off and she stayed with me

9:50

for a night and then , you know , school was the next

9:53

day . I ended up missing the first

9:55

day of school , my senior day

9:57

, and because I was sick with the flu

9:59

and I was home all alone , you know

10:02

, no , my aunts were stopping by here and

10:04

there to check in on me , but they had to work too

10:06

. And my sisters were in Pittsburgh . You

10:08

know Marius was at Duquesne and finishing

10:10

up her you know year of nursing school and Catherine

10:13

was at Pitt , I think , going into her sophomore

10:15

year . And I

10:17

was just kind of , you know , my dad was taking

10:20

care of my mom and had to be by her side and I

10:22

just remembered just sitting there and being like , oh my God , like

10:24

I got it , I got to figure this

10:27

out , like I can't rely

10:29

on mom to take care of me right now and

10:31

I can't rely on that in this

10:33

moment . And you know

10:35

, the next week or so I kind of was on my

10:37

own . I was going to school . When I was coming home by myself

10:39

to an empty house , and it

10:41

was just really weird and really like lonely

10:44

. At the time . You know , I had friends stopping

10:46

over pretty often

10:48

, which was nice , and you

10:50

know it was . It was . It was like

10:52

one of those moments where I look back . You don't think

10:54

about it in that moment , but you look back and like whoa

10:57

, you know , I started my senior year off

10:59

that way .

11:00

Right , how long were you alone ?

11:02

Just about a week , I mean not not even

11:05

, maybe like three or five days . I remember

11:07

I got home and then my mom came , came

11:09

back pretty maybe two , two

11:11

weeks later . It was such a blur , but

11:13

at the time before then , when I was

11:15

, you know , when my mom had the seizures and

11:17

I came up was I was staying in my aunt's house for

11:21

a while , my aunt being , and I

11:23

was staying there , and then I wanted to stay at home

11:25

, just because I was close , closer to school . I was

11:27

only about a five minute walk from school , so it

11:30

just made sense and but then

11:32

things really started kind of heating

11:35

up in terms of like realizing I had to , you know

11:37

, like I had to kind of step

11:40

up and grow up because my sisters were finishing

11:42

up school and they , you

11:44

know , they had to do what they had to do

11:46

in Pittsburgh and my mom wanted them there and

11:48

I definitely wanted them there , no

11:51

question in my mind . And

11:53

my mom was doing her rehab

11:55

at strong . She was able to get back

11:57

and do her rehab at strong

11:59

and every single day I

12:02

would you know , at the time I was playing basketball

12:04

at Mendon but we were in the fall league

12:07

and every single day I would

12:09

. I'd do with I'd go to to go

12:11

to school and go see my

12:13

mom at the hospital right after school and

12:16

then I bring my homework with me . I'd sit with her

12:18

for about two hours and then my

12:20

dad would come at 5 30 and then I'd leave and I'd

12:22

either go to like the night ball or practice

12:24

or whatever it might be . And I

12:26

did that every single day for like two weeks

12:29

, maybe longer , because I think she was in as

12:31

strong for about a month in the rehab , and Each

12:34

day was actually kind of a beautiful thing because

12:36

I got to see my mom get better each day . I

12:39

mean , some days were really hard and you know

12:41

, those first couple weeks she wasn't able to , you know , talk

12:43

to me or she would try to talk to me . You

12:46

know that all the seizures she had , it

12:48

was too , it was too difficult for her to , and

12:50

I Did that every single day

12:52

and it was weird because I wasn't living that

12:54

. You know , senior lifestyle . My friends

12:56

were going out . They were , you know , doing

12:59

their , you know whatever that we did senior

13:01

year having fun going out , you know

13:03

, drinking , partying , and I

13:05

was , you know , and I did plenty of that too

13:07

, but I was . I

13:09

was every day after school , I was going to see my mom and

13:11

I wouldn't take it back for the world , but it was just one

13:14

of those things where you look back and you

13:16

know it's not a very normal thing for a 17

13:19

year old kid to be going through that every single

13:21

day .

13:21

No , I think about like you Going

13:25

back to being on alone for those those

13:27

few days or that week , and I

13:30

know like for me , coming

13:32

to it wasn't even empty house I still have

13:34

my kids but like just coming to a house , that

13:36

wasn't the same not having my wife

13:38

here and how like

13:41

Empty and difficult

13:43

that felt . I mean , there's even

13:45

those moments now , you know , two and a half

13:47

years later , where I still feel that emptiness

13:49

and like trying to go to bed and

13:52

like things Like I just can't get comfortable

13:54

and I imagine like a 17

13:56

year old , you know young man trying

13:58

to be like , okay , I'm home alone , I've

14:00

taken care of shit myself and my

14:02

mom's fighting for her life , my sisters

14:05

are there . Like what

14:07

did you do for some coping mechanisms

14:10

, especially as you now , like you said

14:12

, you're at the hospital , you're going to basketball

14:14

, like there's so much riding

14:16

on all these different things and still

14:18

trying to be a kid and living

14:20

out your last senior year ? Did

14:23

you know , like maybe reflecting back

14:25

what some of those coping mechanisms mechanisms

14:27

were ? Besides , like the talking

14:29

with some of your friends and stuff ?

14:31

I think , like for me , like you know

14:33

, basketball was big , you know , not even

14:35

just like Competitively , but you know

14:37

, going to the Y and playing with my friends

14:40

, that was big . I mean growing up there

14:42

was that old pit , the old Pittsburgh Y . I mean that

14:45

was like where everyone played pick up basketball

14:47

and For me , like that was kind

14:49

of like my therapy was going

14:51

to play basketball with my friends and kind of got

14:54

everything off my mind and

14:56

took away some of that , those bad moments throughout

14:58

the day . And you know , my teachers

15:01

my senior year were super great too and

15:03

super helpful and always there to talk

15:05

, I guess like another . You

15:07

know coping mechanism that maybe

15:09

I didn't adopt then but I've adopted more

15:11

. So now is just Running

15:13

. You know I like to run . I

15:16

feel like when I'm running I can kind of get

15:18

things off my mind . But back then

15:21

, as a 17 year old kid , you know , nobody really

15:23

nobody really talks to you about

15:25

coping mechanism . You just kind of figure it out

15:27

as you go , that's right , yeah

15:29

and I'm sure my sisters felt the same way . I

15:31

mean me , mary Grace was probably , and

15:34

Catherine were probably saying what , what do I do

15:36

? I'm in college , catherine , and being in

15:38

college , mary's , both being in college , both very

15:40

formative years of your life , and All

15:43

your friends are probably going out drinking . But Catherine

15:45

and Mary Grace are at the hospital with with

15:47

my mom , and there was also that part

15:49

of me that really , when she was in Pittsburgh

15:51

and I was back here , I really wanted to be there , but

15:54

I Guess , for coping , I guess

15:56

basketball was really my therapy at that moment

15:58

. Just , you know well , just

16:00

be playing with my friends or I'll play

16:02

with my teammates . That was that , was it .

16:04

Yeah , that makes sense . That's definitely been . Mine

16:08

became like photography and like just these

16:10

different ways to get

16:12

my Thoughts to just

16:14

go away . For a little bit , so

16:16

that way I'm like out of my head and into something

16:18

else , or cooking , or tennis or

16:20

anything like that .

16:21

So I can definitely relate with that , I

16:23

think I played a lot of basketball .

16:26

Yeah , yeah , wait , you play basketball

16:28

.

16:28

Yeah , my dad was like my coach for like CYO

16:30

and you know it's like only

16:33

nine , so I forget I

16:35

. I can't remember what sports I was like still

16:37

into . I feel like I played soccer and we

16:40

had a very active neighborhood . We all

16:42

played kickball like every day after school

16:45

together and I like literally

16:47

like the day my mom died , I went to like my neighbor's house

16:49

after . But

16:57

we , yeah we we would all hang out

16:59

in our neighborhood a lot . So I lean like

17:01

I was always playing with the

17:03

neighborhood kids and we

17:06

like to trade Pokemon cards . Back then I

17:08

was like the big , that's huge now yeah

17:10

.

17:10

Ashley , I remember Working

17:12

at your dad at your camp that

17:14

you guys used to run with with Olivia

17:17

, with Olivia at the time , yeah

17:19

, and your dad cook it for everybody

17:21

, and all that . I remember that , yeah

17:24

, back in high school I did that .

17:25

Yeah , yeah , nichols , nichols ran

17:27

that sports camp . Yeah , nick yeah

17:30

but , yeah , we , we would like I think we

17:32

just went resorted

17:34

to our friends as well , like I'm I'm

17:36

trying to think about Nick and Olivia but even then that he

17:38

played in the neighborhood with us and the Neighborhood

17:41

kids and like they were always there you know

17:43

when , when she was , when having a bad

17:45

, you know , a bad day , or even

17:48

, like I said , on that last day , my Good

17:50

friends Quinn and Mark lived in the neighborhood

17:52

, like right behind us , because we lived , you

17:55

know , in that private drive and so I

17:57

was there all the time and and

17:59

, yeah , especially , especially

18:01

after she passed that's all .

18:02

And you were in that house for a couple years , right ? And then you guys

18:04

moved to Pittsburgh .

18:05

Yeah , yeah , we didn't move until

18:08

after Dead and Delana

18:10

got married , but we were there . So

18:13

like we and we're still friends with , like all

18:15

the neighbors from that , we still keep in touch with

18:17

them and you know , because they they're

18:19

like the people in our lives in my life

18:21

at least , that like knew my mom

18:23

, you know right a

18:25

lot of my friends . Oh , most

18:27

of my friends is only my friend , quinn and

18:29

Julia . I Think there

18:31

might be a few more that like remember my mom , but

18:33

other than that you know my

18:35

closest friends Don't

18:38

? Yeah , which is kind of interesting .

18:41

Yeah , yeah , I found that it's

18:43

sometimes I'm more drawn to people

18:45

who don't know my previous life Mm-hmm , then

18:48

those who do , for some reason . I

18:50

haven't quite figured out why , but that

18:52

tends to be how

18:54

it is for me for the most part , but okay

18:58

. So getting back to your story , you

19:01

know you talked a lot about like going through high school . Your

19:04

mom comes out of the hospital . Presumably

19:07

if I'm remembering the timelines somewhat

19:09

correctly , I'm assuming

19:11

she was Okay for

19:14

graduation . Was she at your graduation for

19:16

high school ?

19:17

Yeah . So you know that was super

19:19

, super special for me because , you know , after

19:21

she got out of the hospital and out of rehab

19:23

, she had some . She had probably , like you know , nine

19:26

really good months where I felt like you know , my

19:28

mom wasn't you know totally back

19:30

to who my mom was before she was sick

19:32

but she was

19:34

able to talk . You know she was able to text

19:36

me . We were able to . You

19:38

know , hey , now go and walk together . And you

19:41

know she , you know , with her type of

19:43

cancer , unfortunately she wasn't able to drive

19:45

and she wasn't able to Kind of do

19:47

a lot of things that anybody would

19:49

want to do . She got a lot of her freedoms taken

19:51

away , unfortunately With

19:54

her specific type of cancer of the

19:56

brain , because of the seizures that she would have . But

19:59

for graduation she was there and I just

20:01

there's this picture of my aunt took , actually

20:03

, and it's of me and I always kind of come back

20:06

to it when I'm missing her and it's of me and my mom and it's

20:08

just you can't see my face , but you can see

20:10

my mom's face and we're hugging each

20:12

other and she got the biggest smile on her face

20:14

and for me that that I always

20:16

come back to that picture when I miss her , because , you

20:19

know , growing up I was not the

20:21

easiest kid to deal with , just

20:24

say the least . There it is , put

20:28

my parents through it . You

20:30

know , god bless my dad and my mom because

20:32

they were , they were so supportive

20:34

of me throughout . You know , all those

20:37

years in school were , you know , I really didn't

20:39

want to go to college . I really , I really , you

20:41

know , didn't love school . I didn't love sitting

20:44

in a classroom . It just wasn't for

20:46

me and I drove my mom

20:48

through a wall doing that . But she

20:51

always wanted me to . She

20:53

always believed in me and my mom always

20:56

believed in me and that , and that was my

20:58

dad too . But my mom really always believed

21:00

in me and she , she always kind

21:03

of , I felt like , got me . You know , she

21:05

she understood I

21:07

was such a troublemaker but she never

21:09

could be mad at me for whatever reason .

21:12

That's you're the youngest .

21:14

Yeah , I'm the youngest .

21:16

And the only boy . Yeah as we call

21:18

Nicholas and my family , the rose amongst the thorns

21:20

, which I always remind

21:22

my parents that I think it's the opposite , but

21:24

you know yeah .

21:27

So she was there and then you

21:29

graduated . Now you said you didn't want to

21:31

go to college , which I resonated with . I was

21:33

not . I am not somebody who wants

21:35

to sit down in a classroom . I love education , but

21:37

I love it on my own terms . Did

21:40

having that experience ? Your

21:43

senior year Affects your

21:45

decision on what you want to do in the future even

21:47

more .

21:48

Yeah , I think you know it's

21:50

funny . You asked that to me because I was actually talking

21:52

to one of my co-workers about it today and he

21:55

actually lost his father when he was 13

21:57

to cancer as well . Oh

21:59

we were just kind of talking . I was talking about the podcast

22:02

and I actually showed him your , your information

22:04

, everything like that . He's like really I gotta give this a listen

22:06

so . He loved what

22:08

you guys are doing . So

22:11

but kind of going back to what you said , I think

22:13

, I think

22:15

it was hard for me to make that decision

22:17

. You know , when I was going to college , because

22:19

part of me really wanted to stay back and

22:22

go to MCC or

22:24

go to St John Fisher or go to FLCC

22:26

or whatever it might be , or maybe even take a

22:28

couple of years off , my mom was so adamant

22:31

on going to college

22:33

and getting a good education

22:35

and not staying back

22:38

. You know , like I would always say , like you know , I

22:40

could go to MCC for a couple of years and stay

22:42

back . And you know , looking back

22:44

, sometimes I wish I had done that , you

22:46

know , and some at the same time , selfishly , sometimes

22:48

I wish I didn't , which I can

22:51

get into , you know . Later , as time went on

22:53

and she got sicker and but

22:55

I think Kineshia was like a perfect

22:57

halfway point for me in those two decisions

23:00

where Kineshia's being in Buffalo

23:02

it's only an hour away I was still

23:04

able to get home . I didn't have a car but

23:06

luckily at the time my roommate was from

23:08

Rochester so he was

23:10

able to help me out , get home and my

23:12

mom had a lot of friends and my

23:15

our family , of course would pick me up if

23:17

I needed to get home , so where I would

23:19

take the train home . I took that home a couple of times

23:21

and it was really easy to get

23:23

home . So I felt like knowing

23:26

what my mom , who

23:28

she was , that I

23:30

knew I had to go to college , I knew I had to give it a try

23:33

. Yeah , because if I didn't I think

23:35

she would have been upset and

23:37

I know that she vocalized that

23:39

a few times with me . So you

23:42

know , I didn't want to take my SATs , I didn't want to do any of that

23:44

. My aunt was the one , my aunt being , who was like

23:46

yelling at me every day .

23:48

You take your SATs . You got no , no way of being .

23:50

I didn't take my SATs . You know , I

23:53

never took mine and that's

23:55

why I went to MCC , because they did

23:57

the college fair and I asked them I'm

23:59

like do you need SATs ? They're like no , and I was like

24:01

fantastic .

24:02

I know where I'm going for college . She's like I'll go here . Oh

24:04

my God , they're like , you just need a pulse

24:06

and money , and I was like I have both , so let's

24:09

go , that's great .

24:10

Uh-huh yeah .

24:12

Not so sure on the pulse sometimes , but you know it's fine

24:14

.

24:14

Yeah , dead inside . Yeah

24:17

, Exactly Okay , so you're at . Oh

24:20

, go ahead , ashley .

24:21

No , I was just going to ask about , like the start of

24:23

college and kind of what

24:25

you were feeling in those moments , like

24:27

as it kind of you know , you didn't really

24:29

want to go in as it came up , you know . And

24:32

then you had your first few weeks . You know what were

24:34

, what was , what were you feeling ?

24:36

Yeah , I mean , the one thing I always

24:38

remember is , um , you

24:40

know my mom and dad and boomed me in

24:43

for freshman year , which was really cool , you

24:45

know , looking back , when you had asked me a year

24:47

ago , when I was in that situation with with

24:50

my mom in Pittsburgh and at Strong

24:52

, if she would have been able to drop me off at college , see

24:54

me graduate , hold a graduation

24:56

party for me , cook my sauce

24:59

, everything that I love . That she did before I left

25:01

, you know . I would have said no way . But she

25:03

did all that and I'll never

25:05

forget like her dropping me off and

25:08

my dad and her stayed a couple days in

25:10

Buffalo just to kind of like you know , hang out and make

25:12

sure I was settled in um being the

25:14

caring parents they were . And you

25:17

know , I just remember forget like

25:19

leaving and bringing

25:23

them to the car and done leaving and just

25:25

being very like sad

25:27

. I think anybody said when , like

25:29

, their parents leave for college , but I just remember I didn't

25:32

cry , I , and I usually don't

25:34

cry , but I just remember

25:36

just feeling like like , okay

25:39

, see , and I just I'll never

25:41

forget that image of like them going

25:43

to their car and me kind of standing there

25:45

and then being like , okay , I got to figure

25:47

this stuff out and do this , you

25:49

know , on my own and not worry about

25:51

what's going on back home . And I

25:53

guess the great part about that was

25:55

and I'm thankful for it was my mom was doing

25:57

really well . She was actually in remission at that

26:00

time , so I felt like

26:02

I was in the best place possible to be

26:04

going to college , um , in

26:06

terms of a mentally , mentally . And

26:08

then , as time went on throughout the year , that's when things kind

26:10

of got worse and

26:14

I'll I think it was

26:16

December , it was November

26:18

, you know Thanksgiving came around , my mom's speech

26:21

started getting a little weird and we were all kind of

26:23

like you know what's going on here , and

26:25

I think more so my dad and my sisters knew

26:27

more than I did . And

26:29

then December kind of came along and she had some

26:32

more seizures and that's obviously a , you know , a telltale

26:34

sign that the cancer probably had come back and

26:36

the tumors had probably come back . And

26:39

I remember , like going back to college

26:41

for a second semester at

26:43

first week and I'm

26:46

saying that they did a scan and that you

26:48

know that they need to operate again , and

26:52

I think either Catherine picked me

26:54

up or Mary Grace picked me up or

26:56

someone picked me up and we ended up

26:59

going back to strong in the same , that

27:01

same waiting room and

27:04

that's when everything started to click for

27:06

me a little bit more . And I

27:08

feel like the first time she was diagnosed I was really

27:11

hopeful . And

27:13

then that second time was really when everything

27:16

started to click and I just remember it

27:18

was a really , really cold January day , but

27:20

classic Rocheter winter , you know

27:22

, very cold and being a sweatshirt

27:24

, and the surgery was about six hours long

27:27

. Just waiting that waiting room and you

27:29

know a doctor coming out and talking to my dad and

27:31

just kind of seeing my dad and his reaction

27:34

and you know , just knowing that okay

27:36

, this , this isn't good . And

27:39

at that moment my second semester had just started

27:41

. I didn't have a good first semester

27:43

freshman year in terms of grade , in

27:46

terms of grades .

27:49

You don't say , as my

27:51

uncle likes to say sees , get degrees

27:54

.

27:54

That's right . That's right . It

27:56

all looks the same on the diploma . But

28:01

you know , I didn't have a good semester at all

28:03

. I was like , I think , like point two away from

28:05

that probation . My parents never found out

28:07

, but thank God

28:10

. But

28:12

I just remember going back and

28:14

thinking to myself how am I going to go back ? How am I going

28:16

to go back to school right now ? And

28:18

I'm sure my sister Catherine was feeling

28:20

the same way . And I'm sure you

28:22

know . I think Marigos was graduating at this

28:24

point , so Catherine was a

28:27

junior at this point , so I'm sure she was . I know

28:29

she was feeling the same way as me , Like

28:31

how do you go back to school ?

28:33

Yeah , and you and you

28:35

had the like benefit , I suppose , of being

28:37

slightly co-closer right , because she

28:39

was still in Pittsburgh .

28:41

Exactly , and I had that and I

28:43

ended up being about an hour away where Catherine was , you

28:45

know , foreign . I know that was really

28:47

hard on her but she always

28:49

came home like a lot . So

28:51

I give Catherine a lot of credit for that , because

28:54

she came home a lot from my mom

28:56

, and so did Marigos , obviously , after

28:58

graduating from nursing school . She could have

29:00

stayed in Pittsburgh but she came back to Rochester

29:02

and I know that was to be with my mom

29:04

and to be with our family . But I think

29:06

like I'll never forget , like going back to school and

29:08

just being like .

29:09

What the heck am I going ?

29:10

to do Like I was so lost

29:12

. I

29:15

had a really great roommate freshman year and

29:18

he's still one of my friends this day . I was just with him

29:20

this weekend and we

29:22

would kind of talk like every night , you know , before

29:25

bed . It was like our thing . We

29:27

were really , you know , really close and

29:29

he was really there for me during that

29:31

time and I had a really really

29:34

good friend named Blake , who I'm really still

29:36

good friends with as well , and you know

29:38

, he was always

29:40

there . There's a guy to . If I had

29:42

to have a good cry , I'd be there , just

29:44

if I needed to talk . And

29:46

I still think at that point I still was

29:48

really hopeful because I knew that they were going to get a

29:50

second opinion and , for whatever

29:52

reason , I felt that , you know , getting

29:55

a second opinion meant maybe there's a shot , you know

29:57

, and I think there was that

29:59

denial as part of it . And

30:02

then you know , you get through the year and I

30:04

think my mom and dad both decided and my mom

30:06

decided that we're going to try this treatment

30:08

here in Strong . And she

30:10

see what happens , and as time

30:12

went on , she wasn't really responding

30:15

to the treatments . Unfortunately , like

30:17

the radiation , the chemo just

30:19

was really beating her up , especially the steroids

30:21

, and she was just , she

30:23

was just so unhappy and actually

30:26

I won't say that because she was the happiest woman

30:28

I've ever met in terms of grace and how she handled

30:30

the situation . I mean , everybody

30:32

who knew my mom , she always knew she had a smile

30:34

, but she was just really suffering and I

30:36

guess that's the best way to put it , and I think she was

30:38

hanging on for us for a while . That and

30:41

you know , I guess for me , the

30:43

one memory that really sticks out is

30:45

, you

30:48

know , I was working a landscaping job at the time and

30:51

at that moment I was

30:53

, you

30:56

know , sitting in the truck and

30:59

my mom had her second MRI

31:01

and she

31:04

didn't go

31:06

well and I figured

31:08

, you know like , okay , well , I remember

31:10

texting my dad saying , hey , dad , like you know what

31:12

, what's , what's going on ? And mom is

31:14

like , okay , we'll talk about it when we get home . Like okay

31:16

, well , like you know what , what is going

31:18

on with mom , and my

31:21

dad not really , I

31:23

think , he just had a really hard time being able to tell

31:25

it over text and I was like , okay , you

31:28

know , I've , I've got to get back , I've

31:30

got to get back home . So , you

31:32

know , I was working this job and I told

31:34

my boss at the time . I was like , hey , I got to go , like something's

31:36

up . And I got home and I

31:39

remember my mom just kind of like sitting there and she

31:41

was crying and my aunts were there and

31:43

I was just like , oh my God . And I just remember just

31:46

like dropping , like like

31:48

you know , like those movies , you see , where people like

31:50

just dropped to the ground and sob , I was like

31:52

I could not , I was unconsolable

31:55

, inconsolable . So I just dropped to the ground and

31:57

sob like a baby for like an hour and

31:59

a half , and that's really when it hit

32:01

me and when I knew what was going to happen

32:03

.

32:05

How long , like how long was this before she ? She

32:08

did end up passing ?

32:10

Like , I mean , this was in June , so about

32:12

four or five months , yeah , I

32:15

mean , and that's when she said , you know there's

32:17

, she wanted to stop treatment

32:19

or there was no other options . I think the doctor

32:21

said , and you know , we were all there

32:23

and I think it was just so

32:26

hard for me and

32:28

I just remember going to sit in the

32:30

shower and crying , and crying for

32:32

like an hour and a half straight , where your eyes just hurt

32:34

, you know , and yeah

32:36

, I just that's one memory that really sticks

32:38

out and I think it's funny about those

32:41

certain memories you wish you could remember . But for

32:43

whatever reason I don't know if you think

32:45

you've touched on this before as well as this you remember

32:47

the really hard times and

32:49

sometimes it's really hard to remember the good times

32:52

too .

32:52

Yeah , and sometimes the good ones

32:54

, they stick with us more than anything . You know , I

32:57

just remember , especially early

32:59

on but occasionally still , just

33:01

being so haunted by watching

33:05

and remembering hospice and watching

33:07

her take her last breath , and it's

33:09

like all those memories are the memories

33:11

of the things that I did that I'm like why the fuck did

33:13

I do that ? I shouldn't have said that

33:15

, I shouldn't have done that , I could have done better . And

33:19

I think the thing

33:22

that I've had to learn is like how do

33:24

I just surrender to that's what

33:26

happened and to give myself

33:28

grace , you know , and forgiveness

33:31

?

33:32

Like you were doing what you could in that moment .

33:34

Right .

33:36

I don't actually really remember my mom being sick . I

33:38

remember like her back hurting and it being

33:40

like mom is sick , which

33:43

I think I've said before like I don't really even

33:45

. Oh , actually , I think I was talking to my family about this

33:47

but I was like I don't really remember my

33:49

dad being like mom has cancer

33:51

, but I don't remember him

33:53

like not telling me that . You know what I mean . Like I knew

33:56

my mom was sick . I knew that was a thing . She

33:58

was going to the doctors . We had like

34:00

an amazing nanny at the time , like

34:02

literally up until

34:04

just after she passed

34:06

. I mean she like put her life on hold for us and

34:10

then I like kind of remember her like getting

34:12

like , like you know , losing her

34:14

hair . Like I feel like I think I look back and I'm

34:16

like , yeah , that was like point B

34:18

and then it was like there's

34:21

the special bed in her bedroom and

34:23

like even as a

34:25

I think I wrote a poem . I like won a poetry

34:27

contest when I was like at the library

34:29

or something and I wrote about

34:31

like her special bed , like so there was like

34:34

there's like three or four phases that

34:36

I remember over the course of I don't even

34:38

know how many years . It was , like four years probably

34:40

, and other than that

34:42

I don't really remember her like sick

34:46

, but I knew she was because , like the

34:48

babysitter took care of us during the day , even

34:50

though she'd be home , but she wasn't well . Sometimes

34:53

she was that chemo , obviously , you know . I know

34:55

that now , and

34:58

my grandparents would come and like take care

35:00

of us at night . You know , like my dad was working

35:02

and he was obviously

35:05

there too , but like my grandparents were always

35:07

there too and a lot of family

35:09

members like my dad talked about . So

35:12

I like don't really have the memories of

35:14

, which is probably . I feel like I should be

35:16

thankful for this , although in a way I'm kind

35:18

of like I wish I was like just a few years older

35:20

so that I could like remember

35:22

you know what happened and

35:24

like be there in a way , but

35:27

I'm sure that I was , you know , there for her in

35:29

a way that was helpful at the time for her Absolutely

35:31

. But yeah , it's interesting

35:33

like just like no

35:36

memory of it . And I don't know if I

35:38

don't think my siblings really have much memory of it

35:40

, but I won't speak for them and

35:43

so those were , like you know , the

35:45

four or five stages that I kind of remember

35:48

of my , my mom being sick . But

35:50

I can absolutely remember , you know , like the day

35:53

that she passed and and like

35:55

just those uncontrollable sobs of like my

35:57

dad and and then me .

35:59

Yeah , and I think and I didn't add

36:01

this in before I started but you guys

36:03

, both of you , you know your stories . I

36:06

know they're both very difficult . Cj

36:08

, you know , and I want to say I'm sorry for the loss

36:10

of your wife and you know , ashley

36:12

, for your , for your mother , but you know , I think what you

36:15

guys are both doing here is something really special

36:17

. And I think that it's

36:19

going to help a lot of people . Like

36:21

a lot of people , it's already helped me immensely

36:23

in my own and it's

36:25

you know . And I think one thing you guys talked about , talked

36:28

about , was like time is time

36:30

, does not heal grief , you know what I mean

36:32

. Like it's always going to hurt , it's

36:34

just you learn to deal with it in a healthy way

36:37

, and I think finding , finding

36:39

people to talk to about it is the best

36:41

way to do it for people who are grieving . So

36:43

I just want to add that in there before we kind

36:45

of continue . Just , I really appreciate what you guys

36:48

are doing , so I mean that .

36:50

Thank you so ?

36:50

much . I feel like that's a

36:52

really good segue into

36:55

what I was going to talk about , or wanted to

36:57

like talk to you a little bit about , and I think you know we

36:59

talked about before you came on as well

37:01

. But so we , you know , we

37:03

know that . You know it

37:05

was like four or five months and Mary told us about

37:07

how you guys ended up

37:10

taking her to hospice and she you're on past

37:12

a few hours later . You know what is

37:14

. What has life been like for you since that

37:17

day , since she passed ?

37:19

Yeah , that's a good question . I think it's

37:21

been so . It's

37:23

gone by so quick , and also sometimes how many years

37:25

has it been ? It's been five , a

37:27

little over five years now , yeah , and

37:31

some days it feels like it just happened yesterday

37:33

, and then other days it feels like

37:36

it was years and years ago . I

37:38

go back and forth between that feeling .

37:41

Well , you've done a lot since then . You

37:43

graduated college , got

37:46

a job in your still in the Buffalo area , right ?

37:48

Correct Yep , still

37:50

in the Buffalo area working in a marketing advertising role and worked

37:53

another job before that that paychecks

37:56

actually Before I know your dad

37:58

works actually . So

38:02

but yeah , I think for me

38:04

it was . I'll never forget

38:06

. Like you know , my mom passes away and

38:08

then the funeral happens , and

38:10

then I go back to school five

38:12

days after the funeral .

38:14

And this is still your freshman year

38:16

.

38:16

Sophomore year .

38:17

Oh , sophomore year , Sophomore year .

38:18

Yeah , and

38:21

you know , if I can backtrack a little bit , I'll never

38:23

forget , like before , that

38:25

you know it was like October 12th and

38:27

my mom died on the 16th

38:30

and my dad's cousin , mary

38:32

Joe , texted me and says you know , hey

38:34

, we're on our way to pick you up and I was actually living with their

38:36

son at the time . So my second cousin

38:39

, nicholas , and he

38:41

was my roommate , so it was really nice to have him around

38:43

and they texted me , so we're on our

38:45

way to pick you up and I'm like what are you talking about ? Like I don't

38:47

know why it didn't hit me , like

38:49

I don't know , I just saw my mom like a week before

38:51

and I thought I knew she was declining , but I , she

38:54

just declined , really , really quick . And

38:56

I think you know , I think , thankfully

38:59

you know my , my sisters

39:01

and my dad and my

39:04

aunts . They kept some of that from me which

39:06

I'm not upset about because I think you

39:08

know , I think I think they did that to protect

39:10

me a little bit , and I

39:12

just remember coming home and I really , I

39:15

guess the best thing I could say and we're all

39:17

segue after this to what life was like after I

39:21

got to say goodbye to my mom , and that's something that

39:23

I don't think many people get an opportunity

39:25

. And I was able

39:28

to kind of tell her everything I wanted to tell her when

39:30

I got back and she

39:32

was , she couldn't talk , but she was crying and I was

39:34

crying and I was able to tell her

39:36

everything I wanted to tell her about what I'm

39:38

going to do as I get older . And

39:40

you know , I'm always going to like think about her

39:43

and told her to give me signs

39:45

and all that kind of stuff and and

39:47

like you know , the funeral in Wake . I can't remember because

39:49

it was such a blur and I'm sure you guys probably

39:51

feel the same way about that . But

39:54

what I do remember is just getting back

39:56

to getting back to school and

39:59

going to the library that day

40:01

because I had so much work to catch up on and all

40:03

these kinesis , kinesis that's a small school , you

40:06

know , everybody knows everybody . It's

40:08

only like 4,000 kids . So everybody knew my mom

40:10

had passed . So everyone was like oh

40:12

, like , what are you doing back ? And everybody's giving me hugs

40:15

and people I don't know very

40:17

well , people I do know it

40:19

was , it was , it was weird , but I felt like so numb

40:21

, you know , to it at that moment . And

40:24

then you know I , my professors were so great

40:26

and it was a really difficult for

40:28

no-transcript

40:30

know where to start , cause everybody's

40:32

grieving right now in my family right , like my

40:35

dad's grieving . He lost loss of love

40:37

of his life . My sister's just lost their

40:39

mother and they're grieving really hard

40:42

and I'm grieving really hard and

40:44

like everybody handles it so differently , you

40:46

know , and we're all kind of like living a

40:48

little bit of a separate life in terms

40:50

of our own grief . I mean , obviously

40:52

we'd grieve together at . You know family

40:54

parties and things like that that first year

40:56

. But when I was at college I just felt

40:59

very I

41:01

wouldn't say alone , because I wasn't . I had so many

41:03

great , great people in my life and I hate

41:05

saying that , but in that moment

41:08

I felt just so lost . I guess that's the way to say

41:10

it .

41:10

Isolated .

41:12

Isolated , yeah , and I

41:14

didn't really know how to handle it . I

41:16

think what I really resorted to at first was going

41:18

out and partying and doing

41:21

that kind of stuff and going out with my friends and distracting

41:23

myself . But

41:25

I think , like

41:27

for me , life in those

41:29

first couple years was kind

41:32

of getting through the day and

41:34

then , you know , it still has kind of been like

41:36

that . But I actually have

41:38

a professor and she

41:40

was my academic advisor as well and she kind of had

41:43

a really good conversation with me quite recently

41:45

and you know we

41:47

talked and she's like Steven , you

41:49

know , I didn't know your mom and

41:51

she actually lost her father at the same

41:54

age as me to the same kind of cancer as

41:56

me . Oh , wow , and she was my advisor

41:58

. So I almost felt like God put us into each

42:00

other's lives because she was also my

42:02

academic advisor and she was the

42:04

head of the communications department at Canisius

42:07

and she kind of had a tough love

42:09

conversation with me . And it's like Steven , you

42:11

need to start , you know , living

42:13

your life again . You

42:16

can let go , but you

42:18

need to live your life too . Like

42:20

letting go doesn't mean that

42:22

you're forgetting about your mom . And I think

42:24

that was really hard for me was I

42:27

didn't want to let go because I felt like it

42:29

was me forgetting about my

42:31

mom . Right , it was

42:34

me , you know , I

42:36

don't know , like , yeah , forgetting her . And

42:38

I never wanted to , even the bad memories

42:40

, I never wanted to . But you

42:42

know , she kind of said like you know , I don't want you

42:44

to be that person who

42:48

never is able to kind

42:50

of move on with their life because your mom wouldn't want that

42:52

and you need to learn to . You know , do

42:54

that and

42:56

find your own happiness and find your own outlets

42:59

of like what you know your mom would

43:01

be happy with . And that was

43:03

really moving for me and it was

43:06

really hard for me to hear it first and I couldn't even

43:08

say to her like , oh , what do you know about

43:10

it ? You know because she knows everything about it . She

43:13

knows everything about it .

43:14

And she's also a breast cancer survivor herself

43:17

.

43:18

So she's been doing it for a long time .

43:20

She's a health .

43:21

So she's been through the ropes and you

43:23

know , we , we , we

43:26

talked for like an hour and you know she

43:28

gave me a big hug and it really opened my mind to

43:30

a lot of things of like , I can't carry

43:32

this , you know , for the with me for the rest of my life

43:34

, this anger and sadness

43:37

that I carry , because

43:40

it's not going to be healthy and it's only going to , it's only going

43:42

to hurt me in the long run , you know .

43:43

Right . So how did you start

43:45

to process that anger ?

43:47

So , like I said , like

43:50

in terms like how did I process it , like what did I

43:52

do to ?

43:52

Yeah to you know . Accept

43:55

it , resolve it , heal from it you

43:57

know , transform it .

43:58

Yeah , like walking away from that conversation , like

44:00

what was .

44:01

Yeah , I think for me , I just had to take some time

44:03

to think about it , and I had to . I

44:05

remember I think I went biking after that conversation

44:07

and then I just kind of thought

44:09

about it and I thought about what would my

44:11

mom want ? Right , what would mom want ? What

44:14

did she always want from me ? What did

44:16

she want for any of us as kids , and for

44:19

my dad and for any of us ? And it was to be happy

44:21

. I mean , my mom was , you

44:23

know , such a selfless person

44:26

. I mean she really she

44:29

didn't have a bucket list , she didn't have

44:31

, you know , things she wanted to do . All she

44:33

really wanted was to be with her family and

44:36

that was how she wanted to spend her last days , was

44:38

surrounded by her family , doing

44:40

basic things , drinking a cup of coffee , you

44:43

know , taking my dog for a walk at

44:45

the time , and she was such a simple

44:48

woman and she loved us

44:50

so deeply . She loved my dad so deeply

44:52

. She loved , you know , all of us

44:54

. And I think what she would have wanted

44:56

and looking back and just I

44:58

try to remind myself is for us not to not

45:01

to like lose our lives over it . You know what I mean

45:04

Like not let us lose ourselves . I guess that's

45:06

what I'm trying to say is , you know , let

45:08

her death become something that motivates

45:11

us to be better , and to be better

45:13

for each other as a family and

45:15

be better for myself too

45:17

and I think that's

45:19

something that your podcast has also helped me with

45:21

, too . Is this like learning to understand

45:24

my grief and that it's not gonna go

45:26

away but there's ways to deal with

45:28

it . You know what ?

45:29

I mean , Right , yeah

45:31

, that's awesome . It's

45:33

interesting you mentioned the coffee . Mary also

45:35

mentioned that your mom liked your

45:37

coffee oh yeah , I find myself

45:39

listening to you and reflecting

45:41

on Mary's episode and I

45:43

just feel and

45:46

I want to acknowledge right now , I feel like there's just so much

45:48

warmth that you guys have towards

45:50

your mom and towards your family and to

45:52

the people who've loved and supported

45:54

you guys through this , and I

45:56

think that's really beautiful and

45:59

I can I kind of almost

46:01

get this sense of like who your mom

46:03

was and the warmth that she was

46:05

and that she brought to everybody , because I

46:08

really see that reflected in you and

46:10

in Mary when you guys share . I think

46:12

it's really beautiful .

46:13

I really appreciate that a lot . Thank you

46:15

, and I think the

46:18

best . It's so hard for me because I'm sure

46:20

you feel the same way and in certain

46:22

ways I know sometimes . You said that you

46:25

kind of said earlier in the episode that you

46:27

sometimes don't want to meet people from you

46:29

know , who knew your past life . But

46:32

for me it's a little bit of the opposite , where

46:34

it's like I wish you had known my mom , you

46:37

know , like I wish , because every person

46:39

, as I'm sure your wife did and I'm sure your mother

46:42

did , like every person that she met in her life

46:44

, I felt like she made better somehow

46:46

, in some way right , and

46:50

she was just such a caring

46:52

, caring soul and I think sometimes

46:55

for me I just try to remind myself

46:57

that , like I think

46:59

what she did on this earth in 51

47:01

years is something that some people don't do

47:03

in 95 . I really

47:05

do believe that she touched

47:07

me in my life and emotionally

47:10

in so many ways and just taught

47:12

me how to be a good person , a good partner

47:15

, a good friend , and

47:17

when I talk about her I feel good . You know

47:19

I do . I think

47:21

it's hard to talk to people about it because there's

47:24

a sense of like , oh

47:26

, and I think actually you touched on at

47:28

one point , like , oh , you're like , you

47:31

never talk about your mom or something like

47:33

that or like , but for

47:35

me it's like , if it's with the

47:37

right person , it's like something so

47:40

healing . For me it's

47:42

so like therapeutic

47:45

, and I feel like it brings her

47:47

back , like all the memories that I

47:49

couldn't think of when I started talking

47:51

about her . I think of now , you know .

47:53

Yeah , that's awesome . Do you have any ? I

47:56

call them rituals , but any like . I know you mentioned

47:58

looking back at the photo , but are there things that

48:00

when you're like , okay , I want to connect with

48:02

my mom again , connect to that memory , connect

48:05

to that love , do you have any rituals or things

48:07

that you do that allow you to tap into that

48:09

?

48:10

Yeah , I mean , I think for me and my

48:12

biggest thing is is I love I love to

48:14

take walks and I love to hike and those are things my mom

48:16

loves . I mean she you know she

48:18

wasn't like a crazy hiker by any means , but you know

48:20

, like men and ponds and stuff like that .

48:23

So funny , literally Mary said the same thing .

48:25

Yeah , I was just thinking that I'm like that is like verbatim

48:27

of what Mary said too .

48:28

Literally like word for word , but

48:31

I love it .

48:32

And me and Marigress are very , very similar .

48:34

Okay , mixed in .

48:36

We're kind of very similar personalities

48:39

but I really like to hike or just like an , enjoy

48:41

a sunset , you know Something

48:43

where , like I just feel like my mom's there and

48:46

like for

48:48

me . Sometimes I'll read like or go through like old

48:50

text messages between us and

48:52

I wish I'd saved more my

48:54

phone during that time like broke

48:57

. I remember I was so sad because

48:59

I lost all my messages , but luckily I had some screen shot

49:02

of that I was able to find and

49:04

it was just messages between us the same , like I love

49:06

you or you know what's for dinner .

49:08

And you're telling me what was for dinner .

49:09

Yeah , but

49:12

just something as simple as that , but like one thing

49:14

that really I do and I'd say this

49:16

is more than even hiking . I don't know why I didn't mention this , but

49:18

I love to cook sauce and

49:20

my mom made sauce every Sunday and

49:23

up until she was really sick she

49:25

was still doing it for me . She knew how much

49:27

I loved her sauce and I

49:29

cook sauce all the time when I really miss her , especially

49:32

in the fall and winter , and

49:34

I love to like have people over too

49:36

Cause like that's what my mom would do she

49:38

loved to feed people . I

49:41

feel really connected when I do that , when

49:43

I cook , just cause my mom

49:45

was such a phenomenal cook .

49:47

Yeah , I love that . Yeah , I'm the same . I

49:51

cook to connect to my dad and I bake to

49:53

connect to my wife .

49:54

That's awesome . That's awesome .

49:55

Was there anything specific your , your wife , would bake , that you

49:58

know man , she was amazing

50:00

, Like we we're

50:02

actually going to open a bakery at one point in our lives

50:04

. Because she was , people were paying

50:06

her for it , Like she was phenomenal

50:09

and she was a great cook too . But

50:11

my dad was uh , uh

50:13

and that's a very long story . Basically , he ended up

50:15

dying almost exactly a year before

50:17

my wife and here's my biological

50:20

father . We kind of came back together

50:22

after really like being distant

50:24

, and he was an amazing

50:26

cook and it's what he did like his whole

50:28

life and he left me uh

50:30

, his knives .

50:32

Wow .

50:32

So he bought knives which I found out , you know , at

50:34

the end of his life that he bought this special set of knives

50:37

specifically to use and to

50:39

pass down to me . So I use

50:41

them when I want to reconnect to him and I just

50:43

kind of , you know , use that as a way

50:45

to also express like here's my love

50:47

and my gratitude that maybe I can't quite say

50:49

to people and have them over and

50:52

watch them just kind of be in that moment

50:54

of joy with good food .

50:56

That's awesome , you know , that's really beautiful

50:58

.

50:58

Yeah , yeah . So but yeah

51:01

, I love that , I love the , I love

51:03

that you do that . I could relate to the sauce . Yeah

51:05

, as an Italian man myself .

51:07

Yeah , yeah , yeah .

51:10

I'm not only talking to the right people , right now , yeah

51:12

, yeah , literally . It was

51:14

like make that three of us Exactly , but

51:17

I I appreciate so much of

51:20

of what you've shared , what you've told

51:22

us . Um , I just wanted to

51:24

open up an opportunity . If there's any last

51:27

memory maybe that you had of your mom , or any

51:29

last thing that you would want to say to anybody

51:31

who is going through this or caring for somebody

51:33

who has maybe been in your position .

51:36

Yeah , I think that's a great question . I think for

51:39

me , I would say you know , take it a

51:41

day by time . If you're going through something like this

51:43

. Um , you know , if

51:46

you're struggling one day and you feel good

51:48

the next day , that's totally normal . Yes , it

51:50

doesn't make you doesn't make you crazy , uh-huh , it

51:52

just makes you human , um , so

51:54

I think I would say that and also , just

51:56

one thing I just want to say is I just want to thank

51:59

you know , you guys , for having me on the show

52:01

, but I also want to thank all the people and

52:03

they know who they are If they listen to this who

52:05

were there for me and there for my family

52:07

during during probably the , I

52:10

hope , the worst time in my life , and

52:12

who was there

52:14

and my good days and my bad days

52:16

, and have been there for me through it all

52:18

, and especially my family

52:20

, my sisters and my dad , and

52:23

you know , I've , I've , I feel

52:25

like for a while we

52:27

grieve so separate and we're kind of like coming

52:30

, coming together again and it feels really good

52:32

. And you know , I think I'll

52:34

leave it with this and I

52:36

love Jimmy V , jimmy Valvano

52:39

. He always said you know , you

52:41

should laugh , you should laugh every

52:43

day , you should cry every day and you should think

52:45

every day . And I think I

52:47

think that's , I think that's a quote that I live

52:49

with and I think I will continue

52:51

to , and you know , he's somebody who battled

52:53

with cancer , who I always have looked up to as well

52:56

, so those are kind of my last thoughts

52:58

yeah , I love it .

52:59

Yeah , thank you . I

53:01

think it's so great how much of a support

53:04

system you had with your friends as well

53:06

.

53:06

Oh yeah .

53:07

You know and you know and of course , your family . But I think sometimes

53:09

, well

53:12

, I don't know , I mean even , sometimes just

53:14

I'm very closed off and like don't necessarily

53:16

, you know , talk about or open

53:19

up . It takes me a

53:21

little bit . We're quite the opposite , but for you to

53:23

, yeah , for you to be able to , you

53:26

know , lean on your friends and feel comfortable to do

53:28

that , I think . I think is amazing

53:30

and is probably something that you know , really

53:32

, from the sounds of it , really helped you

53:34

get through that time , especially

53:36

when you know it was just you

53:38

at home , or even you know just

53:41

you here in Buffalo and your family was an

53:43

hour away , Like I know . I mean , I went to UB

53:45

, so I remember , I remember the

53:47

hour away and

53:50

left my siblings and family left

53:52

him behind , if you will , but yeah , I think that's

53:54

just really something that stood out from from

53:57

tonight's conversation .

53:58

Yeah , I've got some really amazing

54:00

friends , and one person too is I

54:02

forgot to mention , was one of my best friends

54:05

, probably my best . One of my best friends , joe . He

54:07

was always there the day after the funeral I

54:09

, he , I actually went over to his

54:11

apartment and just

54:14

kind of hung out with him and his , his college friends , he

54:16

went to RIT and I mean I could go on and on

54:18

about all the friends that helped me , but

54:21

he's one person that threw it all , really

54:23

really found a way where

54:26

we never talked about it ever

54:28

. Really , he was one of those guys that just

54:30

was there . You know , he just was always like there

54:32

to take me out of my home . You

54:34

know he knew it and he said you know

54:37

, okay , let's go grab some drinks , let's

54:39

go play , let's go play basketball , let's

54:41

, let's go do whatever . But we never talked

54:43

about it , but he didn't have to say anything

54:45

because he just knew he was there . You know

54:47

so , and there were so many people like that as

54:49

well , but that's one person I want

54:51

to definitely shout out .

54:53

Basketball must have been a thing because my friends

54:55

that I went to their house after they

54:57

had a basketball court in their backyard .

54:59

Oh , that's the best .

55:01

So , yeah , we literally was like

55:03

I would just go there all the time to

55:05

play with them and and you know

55:07

we were young at that time , but I

55:09

still think they knew , like Ashley's mom is

55:11

sick , like I'm sure that their parents told them because

55:13

they would have seen her you know and

55:16

so , like that was , that was

55:18

a huge , you know huge . I

55:21

wouldn't have labeled it a stress reliever back

55:23

then . I was seven , eight and nine

55:25

, but you know , being able to go

55:27

over to their house and you

55:29

know where it was normal , if you will

55:32

, I think definitely helped me through

55:34

through those years , for sure .

55:37

Okay , well , thank you

55:39

so much for coming on the show , you guys . And

55:42

we appreciate you sharing , we

55:44

appreciate hearing another side

55:46

to the story about your

55:48

mom and your family and , like I said

55:50

, it's you guys just emanate

55:52

warmth and and love and and

55:55

gratitude towards each

55:57

other . That's what really sticks out to me and

56:01

it allows me to tap into

56:03

kind of the gratitude

56:05

that I've had over the years that

56:07

maybe I've forgotten or

56:09

didn't hold on to . So I appreciate that and

56:12

I think that's that's beautiful and I hope our audience

56:14

is able to to capture that as well

56:16

.

56:17

Of course and I appreciate you know you guys as well

56:19

and especially just all

56:21

the questions that you asked , you can tell are very , you

56:23

know , thought out , but also the fact that

56:25

you guys can connect with whoever's on

56:27

this podcast , whether it be me , my sister or , you

56:30

know , all the other viewers that you've had on here not

56:33

viewers , audience members you've had on here

56:35

. It's just , I feel like

56:37

, even if

56:39

I didn't do this , I'm

56:41

really happy I did , but even if I didn't do

56:43

this , I think just listening to your podcast helps

56:46

me a lot in my own journey

56:48

of acceptance , right , accepting

56:51

that this is a kind of a new reality

56:53

and that you're not alone

56:55

in it . Grief is not because when you're grieving

56:57

you feel so alone , right , you feel like nobody

57:00

else gets it , nobody else understands . But

57:02

when you hear stories like

57:04

yours and Ashley's and you know

57:06

other people who've been on , it's just . It

57:09

really makes you realize , okay , like I'm not

57:11

alone in this , other people have been through this . I

57:14

appreciate what you guys do and I keep

57:16

doing it because you're only going to help

57:18

more and more people as time goes on

57:21

.

57:26

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Day

57:28

After . You can find this podcast and more

57:30

at our website at wwwthedayaftercom

57:34

. If you enjoyed this episode , we'd

57:36

really appreciate it if you take a moment to leave us a

57:38

review wherever you listen to your podcast

57:40

.