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0:35

Lodging. Wrote. A

0:39

book. Had. On. Yeah.

0:43

I'm. Not a lower com. So.

0:47

The. Problem is. Fully.

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We are all. Of. My

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money. Isn't Mexico?

0:55

All of. It. From.

1:00

The New York Times. I'm Catron

1:02

Bennhold. This is the daily. A

1:06

massive scam targeting elderly Americans

1:08

who own timeshare properties as

1:10

resulted in hundreds of millions

1:12

of dollars sent to Mexico.

1:14

Once you move forward and make

1:17

your payment for anything were to

1:19

happen, he he will directly pay

1:21

you the full amount of what

1:23

you're entitled to including the game.

1:25

You will pay the full amount

1:27

you got all my money if

1:29

befriend I told of Reagan House.

1:34

Listen. To this I sold a

1:36

house. Bill. I grew

1:38

up in. So. That

1:41

I could come up with plans

1:43

to send Mexico. I.

1:48

Don't even have anything from the

1:50

sale? Nothing. My

1:53

colleague maria be a beep

1:56

on one victim who lost

1:58

everything and the people. The

2:00

other side of the phone that's really

2:02

that's a President is not. You know

2:04

what? That's what has been said every

2:06

region time. Every

2:09

time just pay this evolution and

2:11

fly were born allow it to

2:13

it to happen again. This is

2:15

the last time during. The

2:21

pre. Maria.

2:28

You've been looking into the

2:30

scam that's targeting Americans. Where.

2:32

Did your investigation started? So.

2:35

Several weeks ago, I received a

2:37

phone call from a lawyer based

2:39

in St. Petersburg, Florida. Who

2:42

had been contacted by. A.

2:45

Family who is very concerned that

2:47

the father. This man named

2:49

James was. In the

2:51

middle of being scammed, he'd

2:53

sent hundreds the thousand dollars

2:55

to Mexico. and he was

2:57

considering sending another hundred and

2:59

fifty seven thousand dollars when.

3:02

His daughter decided to call of

3:04

this law. Firm. And try to

3:06

get her father to stop. Stop.

3:08

Sending money to Mexico. So.

3:12

I called him a few weeks ago as I

3:15

was trying to understand what was going on. Hello

3:17

Hi James, how are you. Do.

3:21

You the asked that his last name

3:24

be withheld for privacy concerns because she's

3:26

quite embarrassed about the story than about

3:28

to tell you. You're

3:30

retired now, but what were you doing for

3:33

work? And if. Your wife was working for

3:35

was her job. As

3:37

what's I went to. Seems. As

3:39

a retired state. Trooper from California and

3:41

his wife Nicky is a former

3:43

school nurse. She was born in

3:46

Fifty One, So seventy. One

3:49

fish and. She

3:52

just reminded me so. And

3:54

they're both in their early

3:56

seventies and they own his

3:58

time, sir. It is and

4:00

Lake Tahoe California and they bought it

4:03

in the nineteen nineties for. About eight

4:05

thousand dollars. And for someone

4:07

who did, Not grow up. The case ning and

4:09

a timeshare. Remind me how exactly

4:12

time says work times are essentially

4:14

vacation properties and they tend to

4:16

be. Beach resorts and

4:19

multiple people can buy

4:21

ensue. This property The

4:23

ownership is a shared. Ownership

4:26

and. This gives you the

4:28

right to use the timeshare for one

4:30

to two weeks out of every year.

4:33

And. So James and Nicky use. Their timeshare

4:35

every other year with their

4:37

daughters. By it as they hit

4:40

retirement age and her daughters are growing up

4:42

and starting their own families through. to say

4:44

it really using it that much. Anymore

4:46

and. Timeshares,

4:49

Require the owners to.

4:51

Pass yearly maintenance seas and so

4:53

they're starting to think about may

4:56

be. Letting go of their

4:58

timeshare and. Saying it's then

5:00

one day in late.

5:02

Two thousand and twenty two chains

5:04

gets us a phone call from

5:06

a company. That is purporting

5:09

to be. Based out

5:11

of Atlanta, Georgia. Called Worry

5:13

Free Vacations for a Free

5:15

Vacations? Yeah, that sounds enticing.

5:18

Busy as. And

5:20

they start off with a simple question. Which

5:22

is. Do you want to

5:25

buy a timeshare and Jane says

5:27

I already have a timeshare and

5:29

then they say great. More.

5:31

What about selling the timeshare? Do you

5:33

want to sell. Theirs. Is

5:35

Mexican businessman and he's interested in your

5:37

time and he's willing to buy it

5:40

for about twenty thousand dollars. Or

5:42

so Reserva didn't need answers.

5:45

A mischievous edition and James

5:47

jumps at the opportunity. And.

5:50

Did. He do anything to try and. Verify

5:52

that this was real. Yeah,

5:55

so remember James? His former

5:57

one for smith. And he feel

5:59

very. Confidence in his abilities to

6:01

kind of sniffs out untrustworthy people

6:04

on him. So he goes on

6:06

line and he googles this Mexican

6:08

businessman and sees the yep see

6:10

Israel. For says very

6:12

well respected visual and

6:15

next soaps. You

6:17

know very well off

6:19

and. This makes same so at

6:21

ease you know that he's selling to

6:23

illegitimate person that forty. Three Vacations

6:25

are who they claim to be

6:27

and. Not he's gonna double of money

6:30

overnight. Essentially. And

6:32

what happens next. Well.

6:37

A couple of weeks after he makes the

6:39

agreement with the buyer, He's told

6:41

that he needs to send a couple

6:43

of thousand dollars to facilitate the purchase.

6:46

Was. That mean, facilitate. I

6:53

can't remember specifically with the real

6:55

space to be Frost Order registration

6:57

so he's been told that their

7:00

these sees that are paid directly

7:02

to the Mexican government or his

7:04

P H D or some other.

7:07

See that was Mexican

7:10

read. A

7:13

lot of these seeds of the same

7:15

had sissies that he would pay in

7:17

the United States for a real estate

7:19

transaction. So he begins wiring money to

7:21

an account Mexico. After that

7:23

but she days later we get

7:25

an education will everything went well

7:27

except in we have to pay

7:29

an additional see. Every

7:32

time that he sends one

7:34

see he's been told that

7:36

you know he's gotta send

7:38

another Fi right afterwards. Does

7:41

he gets suspicious at any point?

7:44

Is voice as. Suspicious. After

7:48

the first couple of payments

7:50

seized are saying does not

7:52

see all right. But

7:56

it seems as the former law

7:58

enforcement officer right. He the one

8:00

that. Basically. Handles the

8:03

family finances and he's confident that

8:05

all of this is gonna work

8:07

out because she's being told that

8:09

the buyers a timeshare. Will reimburse

8:11

teams for all of that he sees.

8:14

Once the cell goes through. My

8:17

goal or me more vacations

8:19

was constantly reassuring. The money's

8:22

of metics out secretary commercial

8:24

as cruel joke, it's there.

8:26

It's just basically piece of

8:28

the day. a of you're

8:30

being reimbursed girl. They're

8:33

sending Jane's. Documents that

8:35

so all of the reimbursements.

8:37

That he's owed and how much money

8:39

he's gonna get and this just makes

8:42

them feel. Like you know,

8:44

all of this kosher. Of discourse

8:46

last quarter of a the Vault of

8:48

Do York. Sword there

8:50

was an air of

8:52

legitimacy that I was

8:54

comfortable with. You

8:58

know, maybe? Okay, these guys just need one

9:00

more see and everything is gonna. Finally declared.

9:08

But. About a year ends, James

9:10

starts. To get suspicious, he. Begins

9:13

asking questions. Because. He wants his

9:15

money. And every

9:17

time I asked. Caesar.

9:19

Away I get a partial release

9:21

These funds there was always know

9:23

the sit bones have to be

9:25

paid from your Hm out before

9:27

the release of New Spain or

9:29

free vacation say Pivot. And.

9:32

They tell him that. Listen, you know

9:34

they're all these complications. It's gonna be

9:36

really hard to get your money out

9:39

from this transaction. Sixty About

9:41

thirty thousand change.

9:44

To. Read this

9:46

book three hundred and

9:49

thirty thousand dollars into

9:51

environmentally conscious developments in

9:54

older Rideau next and

9:56

said we've got this

9:58

other invest. An opportunity in

10:00

Mexico? not sure. Either way it is

10:03

Little girl nice. First of all good

10:05

mood. And that is

10:07

gonna make us huge return. Even more money

10:09

than you had thought that you're going to

10:11

make much more than twenty thousand dollars. Post

10:13

I'm supposed to have like

10:15

fifty four million pesos stand

10:17

at a Mexican bank account.

10:20

The on. So

10:29

this is now. No longer just about

10:31

his timeshare. They are now partners

10:34

and a real estate investment, right?

10:36

And there's this whole new round

10:38

of fees and fines associated with

10:40

that. So how many

10:42

payments would she? Say. Oh

10:44

geez, Point

10:48

of view of. Couple

10:51

dozen, Least. three more. When.

10:54

Was your last payment? It

10:58

would be. I'm seventeen january. Ah,

11:02

And what was that for? Good.

11:05

Question. And

11:07

all along he believed it was

11:10

necessary to pay these costs just

11:12

to get the money that he's

11:14

out. Use. The

11:16

amount of money that I've since Mexico's

11:18

just freak and sources. Reason.

11:21

I mean this. Is

11:24

approaching nine hundred. Thousand.

11:27

Dollars or more. Well. Okay,

11:30

And at this point is sense about

11:32

nine hundred thousand. Dollars to Mexico over

11:35

about a year and has. Nearly

11:37

a million dollars. That

11:40

was almost all the money that he and his

11:42

wife had save their retirement. Wow.

11:44

At also included money from the sale

11:47

of seems his childhood home. And

11:49

money that he had borrowed from his daughter

11:52

and son in law. about one hundred and

11:54

fifty thousand dollars from them. It's it's awful.

11:56

So. They were completely cleaned

11:58

out. By. These. The ice. Yeah.

12:01

And this is when his. Daughter asks

12:04

a law firm to look into this,

12:06

which is the point in the story.

12:08

When. I mean James

12:10

and. When we start talking,

12:12

it was clear to me that he. Just

12:15

did not know what to say. Eggs even

12:17

after. Losing this much money the So.

12:20

Is started in Twenty Twenty Two

12:22

when. Did it last and it's. How

12:26

to use. And

12:30

he's still talking to the scammers.

12:33

Him as a matter of

12:35

fact. Presently there was a

12:38

request for one hundred Sixty

12:40

Seven Thousand stage to clear

12:43

up this whole thing with

12:45

zero entire issue out. And

12:48

James's even considering putting. A second mortgage

12:51

on his house to spend that money that

12:53

he them promise would finally claire all this

12:55

up. One final payment of

12:57

one hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars.

13:01

It really sounds like he

13:03

still wanted to believe that

13:05

this summer. Legit. Yeah, It's

13:08

pretty clear to me that he

13:10

was being scammed, but I didn't

13:13

definitively know what was going on,

13:15

so I asked him. Is he could

13:17

start recording his uncle's who? The scammers? Who

13:19

would. You be so kind as

13:21

to do me a favor,

13:23

just would you be willing

13:25

to give them a call

13:27

and record them. At.

13:31

All it's no secret that been recording

13:34

their mess. That. In it

13:36

turns out he already had been. Removed.

13:42

So he shared the recordings of

13:44

these calls that he'd had with

13:46

the scammers for the last year

13:48

or so, and it was just

13:50

remarkable. It gave me suit insight

13:52

into how the scam works and.

13:55

The. Way that it sounded over the phone.

13:58

Users. My polian as the he's from. Call

14:00

me I couldn't get through to Captain. Yes,

14:03

I believe he detroit of call you sir are

14:05

give a second. I think he's only going to

14:07

be in for a couple minutes. Was a good.

14:12

There. Are two main take a ways for

14:15

me listening to these calls. Good.

14:17

Afternoon Mike Mccarthy. Michael.

14:20

And missed two calls from people. Don't

14:23

worry yeah I have figure something was wrong

14:25

with your phone. Everything okay. The.

14:28

First is that these scammers had really

14:30

gotten to New James so well. and

14:32

they. Really need jeans? Believe that Worry

14:34

Free was a company that was working

14:36

for him. That's. All we need

14:38

to hurry up and get his money or

14:40

to you because hey I'm losing my mind

14:42

to I'm not even here to convince you

14:44

James some my you know I'm your broker

14:46

in in. One of the things

14:49

they continuously says, trust me, Look,

14:51

I'm I'm doing everything I can in

14:53

my power and will on my and

14:55

Sir James's split like I told you

14:58

from the get go and will resolve

15:00

this and we are doing it just.

15:02

I just need used Banjos focus on

15:04

the goal. Say would we focus the

15:06

conversation on what seems needed. To do to

15:08

get his money back. Look if you

15:10

make your pay me as a

15:12

security deposit right away they will

15:14

release the funds to you. With

15:16

this and the other thing. Pillow.

15:19

I did have a so much for for try to

15:21

reach what I have not been successful. Is

15:24

that the scammers had created elaborate cast.

15:26

Of characters I don't like.

15:28

Off. And summer summer

15:30

really aggressive seems certain recording of

15:32

this one man who claim to

15:35

be an agent for the Mexican

15:37

government and specifically started yelling it

15:39

seems. That

15:41

the hospital to be honest with you, If.

15:51

The owners. Yeah. And

15:55

he's in Trenton. Seems it

15:57

seems to pass the signs

15:59

and. All the money that he'd

16:01

sent to Mexico already. The

16:04

best way you want. To

16:13

convince you guys are. No

16:18

thank you for the information to. A

16:20

no. Filler.

16:24

Will. Oh. Wow!

16:26

so the scammers for basically doing

16:28

a good cop bad cop routine

16:31

to stop teams from walking away.

16:34

And to squeeze every last

16:36

penny out of him, Exactly.

16:39

Eg, provide be your email contact

16:42

information and will serve you Be

16:44

happy to forward all and it's

16:46

the wire transfer information age from

16:48

my bank account to use a

16:51

gene see where those funds will.

16:53

Gather in there would be great. I

16:55

have your James asks me of reporters

16:57

is based in Mexico speak the language

16:59

if I could help him. Suffer. Out

17:02

where his money had gone to.

17:04

Thank you very much. I really

17:06

appreciate your assistance. I'm. Just doing

17:08

my job. Thanks again and Will

17:10

Toxin and the only way that

17:13

I consider that out was understand

17:15

So was on the other side

17:17

of the. Movie.

17:40

You. Rely on a daily for the latest

17:42

news but could rely on to keep your

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business going strong. Turns out more

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businesses turned a contrast business than

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anyone else sir. Local flower shop

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and neighbor had pizza joint, nationwide

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banks and restaurants, start of stadiums,

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to Wall Street and everything in

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between. I'll be physicists from

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Iron Contest Business for their Advance

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Network Cyber Security Solutions and Round

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Comcast Business compiler your business. Comcast.

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18:14

This. Is Sarah Canuck host of

18:16

cereal or new A season season

18:18

for is about Guantanamo Bay. Remember

18:21

Guantanamo still open. To

18:23

Prison and a court that the Us built

18:25

from scratch right after Nine Eleven to hold

18:27

people we suspected of being Taliban or Al

18:29

Qaeda. And it is unlike any criminal justice

18:32

system I have ever seen. Reporter Dana Two

18:34

of us and I Dana's Michael Who's the

18:36

Season We've been trying to do a story

18:38

about. One on ammo for almost

18:41

a decade. The problem was for

18:43

years. All the best stories Dane and I

18:45

heard about what was really going on there. Were

18:47

off the record. But now people.

18:49

Are ready to talk Guards

18:52

interrogators, Commanders. Chaplains, translators,

18:54

and former prisoners. They

18:56

gave us a history of Guantanamo you could

18:58

only get from. The people who lived through it.

19:01

People who know things the rest of

19:03

the still about what it's like to

19:05

be caught inside an improvised justice system

19:07

and Zero Productions the New York Times

19:10

serial Season for One Tamil. listen wherever

19:12

you get your podcast. Sumaria.

19:16

Who was And. The other side of

19:18

that phone line. So.

19:21

By. The time that I met James

19:23

third already gotten a tip from Us

19:25

law enforcement agencies that. They

19:27

were seeing a new trends. Mexican

19:30

drug cartels were getting involved in

19:32

a timeshare scam industry. Drug.

19:34

Cartels, Yana. And

19:37

not just any drug cartel,

19:39

this is one is the

19:41

most notorious violent, bloody drug

19:44

cartels that exists in Mexico

19:46

and Latin American. The city's

19:48

go new generation per tell

19:50

who's and. When. I

19:52

look Sir James's bank records. Guess

19:54

what? All. The money

19:57

that he was sending was going

19:59

to various banks count they are

20:01

all located. In Frisco

20:04

States and Mexico. Wow,

20:07

so why would the drug cartels

20:09

get into the time sir scamming

20:11

business. It is

20:13

a huge business. The F B

20:15

I told me that it's about

20:17

three hundred million dollars in profits

20:19

over the last five years. Wow.

20:21

But the thing is is that

20:23

the potential for it to actually

20:25

be. Multitudes More is

20:28

huge because. The F

20:30

B I estimates that most of

20:32

the scans are actually not even

20:35

reported. In fact, only about twenty

20:37

percent are. So that means the

20:40

total time share scam business could

20:42

actually be much. Larger than the

20:44

three hundred million dollars that they

20:46

as knowledge of over the last

20:48

five years. But wait,

20:51

I thought the drug. Business was a pretty

20:53

lucrative business and itself so. Why

20:55

get into the scamming of elderly

20:57

people for their properties and Lake

20:59

Tahoe? Well, if remember that these

21:02

drug cartels do not just doing

21:04

one thing, they're doing multiple things.

21:06

They're essentially conglomerates. Because it's really

21:09

expensive to run a cartel, you

21:11

need to pass officials both Mexican

21:13

and American. You need to maintain

21:16

basically an army in order. To

21:18

secure your. Routes up

21:20

to the United States ports of

21:22

entry into Mexico from Colombia. And

21:24

like any big business, you need

21:26

to diversify your income to make

21:28

sure that you keep the money

21:30

flowing. Did you never know when

21:32

one businesses can be set down

21:34

by authorities are taken over by

21:36

arrivals. We've reported that. There

21:38

now and the avocado business

21:41

and the construction business and

21:43

timeshare fraud is basically. No.

21:45

Different than any of those. So. We're

21:48

seeing that the Cartels have

21:50

their fingers in many pies.

21:52

the legitimate and. Illegitimate economy

21:54

here in Mexico. Is.

21:56

Kind of fascinating to think of these.

21:59

Trapped. Pretty. As like

22:01

sprawling diversified business empire

22:03

as. But. When did the

22:05

Cartels first get into the scamming? Business.

22:09

So. Police. The new generation started

22:11

about fifteen years ago. And.

22:16

When they started to consolidate their empire and

22:18

for least the states, they found that there

22:20

were. All these damn time

22:23

sir! Call centres all over

22:25

the states. That were being run

22:27

by various players and at this is

22:29

a huge huge money maker because essentially

22:31

all you have to do is call

22:33

up retired senior citizens in the Us

22:36

and Canada. It doesn't take that much.

22:38

Money. To run a schemer, there's no

22:40

products are waking. So

22:44

essentially they conducted a hostile takeover of

22:46

these call centers. they win in a

22:48

kick down doors and and dragged out

22:51

the people who are managing this call

22:53

centers by their hair and threatened to

22:55

kill them unless they gave up the

22:58

call centers or started handing over a

23:00

kind of with they made and slowly

23:02

slowly police go. New generation. Cartel

23:04

took over, been fired. Seems you.

23:14

Interesting, Were you able to find any of these

23:16

call centres? So

23:18

these calls enters a pretty hard to

23:20

find. They look like any other storefront.

23:22

By. It I was able to visit. To

23:25

that were located in an

23:27

upscale neighborhood in Guadalajara, which

23:29

is the capital of Lisa

23:31

State Prison and it was

23:33

just really perturbing because it

23:36

was just so normal to

23:38

villas that a mile away

23:40

from each other outside of

23:42

one villa. Parents. Were

23:44

walking by holding their children's hands to

23:46

say you don't did drop off at

23:48

school. it was right next to a

23:50

park or people taking. Their morning exercise

23:52

their dogs for a walk. There

23:55

was no real sign. At the

23:57

Cartel was doing business there. but as

23:59

humans. The for. Mexican

24:02

law enforcement has found the bodies of a young

24:04

people who had used to work at one of

24:06

these call centers and so did the Phillies Go

24:08

Cartel had killed them. Know.

24:11

What Happened? So

24:14

I wasn't able to talk directly to any

24:16

of the victims' families. They're just

24:18

too scared. but in general this

24:20

is usually heard certs. The

24:24

Cartels seeks out English speakers to work

24:26

for their call centers. Sometimes they don't

24:28

even tell them what exactly they're doing.

24:30

they would tell the recruits at the

24:33

job was. To

24:35

industry. You

24:37

have to remember Felice Go is

24:40

a huge, huge tourism magnet for

24:42

Americans and Canadians and others. And

24:45

the Cartel would get their

24:47

call lists from bribing hotel

24:49

employees figures in the names

24:51

as people who stayed at

24:53

these hotels and also at

24:56

the time share. Resorts.

24:59

And the people who would work at the

25:01

call centers are provided the names and a

25:03

manuals. Of what you need to do

25:05

when you call. kind of. Like a

25:07

was scripts that how to try to suck

25:09

as much money as he can out of

25:12

these people up north in Canada and the

25:14

States. Isn't. So.

25:18

We. Don't know for sure what

25:20

exactly happened with the a young

25:22

Mexicans who were killed last year,

25:24

but through an intermediary one sibling.

25:27

Told us that when their family member

25:29

new at their job. Actually was

25:32

they became extremely uncomfortable

25:34

and. Try. To leads

25:36

to call center find another job Navy.

25:39

But. The Police good new generation

25:41

Cartel is known for being extremely. Brutal.

25:44

A top of heads and not put them

25:46

on. The gates as a playground for

25:48

instance, so that everybody in the neighborhood knows

25:51

what went down. And

25:53

in this case, it's possible that they wanted

25:55

to send. A warning. That. There's no

25:57

to section from their timeshare presenter.

26:01

So basically making a very

26:03

scary example of these guys.

26:06

In case anyone else is thinking

26:08

about quitting one of the call

26:10

centres, exactly. And

26:13

one man who runs an organization

26:15

who advocates are missing people and

26:18

actually organize a search parties to

26:20

com the forests of Frisco State

26:22

looking for the missing says that.

26:25

He knows of about thirty people have disappeared

26:27

from the call centers and fleas go states

26:29

since two thousand and seventeen. So.

26:33

While Americans and Canadians might

26:35

be losing much of their

26:37

life savings in Mexico, this

26:39

is actually deadly. I

26:49

the authorities doing anything about this. Not

26:53

really. Other than the fact that

26:55

these to call centers for sat

26:57

down the authorities have been arrested

26:59

Others they're not putting pressure on

27:02

max can banks for instance to

27:04

look into these. Payments coming from

27:06

senior citizens leave. Us or

27:08

Canada and use remember that

27:10

people are really afraid but

27:12

you also have to remember

27:15

that Mexico things are not

27:17

that clear. There is a

27:19

lots of corruption and government.

27:21

Collusion with is organized

27:23

crime and cartels and

27:25

the tourism and stream.

27:28

It. Is huge and Mexico.

27:30

And particularly and police cars state

27:32

this is a multibillion. Dollar industry.

27:36

They don't want Americans are Canadians

27:38

Europeans were coming to Police go

27:40

for it's beautiful beaches and it's

27:43

mountains to hear about these stories.

27:46

Regarding the cartels being involved in

27:49

the tourism industry and think you

27:51

know I'm not going to

27:53

send my family there for that

27:55

beach vacation to simply too

27:57

dangerous so everybody has and. They

28:00

wanted to have this can continue. Weather

28:02

because they're too afraid. And don't want to

28:04

speak out or because they're in on it. So

28:08

it away. Local

28:10

authorities have an interest and

28:12

sweeping it under carpet in

28:14

order to just maintain this

28:16

idea of a tourist destination.

28:19

Exactly. I mean,

28:21

the spokeswoman for the Prosecutor's office

28:23

was very responsive. To Me

28:25

until. I. Told her what

28:28

I wanted to ask questions about and

28:30

then she just simply never answered in

28:32

of my texts or phone calls. So.

28:36

Maria based on. Everything. You

28:38

know all the information you have. Would

28:40

you say that you're confident that the

28:42

Cartels where the ones who scam seems.

28:45

Yes, One hundred percent. Everything

28:47

I've seen points in that direction. What?

28:51

Did same say? When you told them this. So.

28:56

It. Took him. Quite.

28:59

A while to really allow himself to

29:01

believe it on the advice. Of his

29:03

lawyers. he starts picking up the

29:05

phone calls and. About. A

29:07

week ago. They. Steps as

29:09

the scammers. Kept trying to call him. But

29:12

he said he was in it for. Over.

29:15

A year. Why do

29:17

you think? It took him so long.

29:20

Can you tell me after all

29:22

of that that had been presented

29:24

here, why do you think he

29:26

weren't willing to be entirely convinced?

29:28

Mom I actually asked that question.

29:31

That are some very good

29:33

question. Why wasn't are able.

29:36

To pick up on that one away and I think

29:38

of in the back of my mind. I'm

29:41

finding out that I'm a little more stubborn that

29:44

I thought I was. In

29:46

for him. It

29:48

was pretty complicated than us a surf.

29:50

I didn't want to believe that I

29:52

have. Fallen for this.

29:54

I didn't feel I was up. foolish

29:56

and to put the claim to this.

30:00

No. I guess I don't

30:02

want to believe I could be. Fooled.

30:09

See you. Come

30:11

to terms of the fact that

30:13

he had lost so much money.

30:15

Was to come to terms the

30:17

fact that he wasn't the person

30:19

that he thought that he was.

30:21

That he wasn't this kind of,

30:23

you know, clever. Former

30:26

law enforcement officer who.

30:29

Was used. To fighting the bad

30:31

guys and and winning. Oh

30:34

yeah I'm on this of one of the

30:36

muscle. There's a huge

30:38

a level of anger towards

30:40

the perpetrators and then the.

30:44

He all things ruff and one. Of

30:47

em part of the other as

30:49

a contributes to not wanting to

30:51

but actually believes that I was

30:53

more. Yes,

30:57

I hear. I'm

31:00

sorry I can hear the pain in your voice.

31:05

Yeah. Some as

31:07

it's based on same right the he

31:09

lost all this money, everything that he's

31:11

worked for, and the fact that this.

31:13

Was all supposed to be money that

31:15

his children and grandchildren were going to

31:17

inherit? and now it's gone. And

31:26

have you told your daughter of a think if

31:28

kind of come to terms with the fact that

31:30

this might have been a scam? Oh she's she's

31:33

been involved. Yeah, I

31:35

know, My daughter's

31:37

us and sorry this is a

31:39

tough time. The.

31:46

Are gonna some sort of

31:48

arrangements to or ah, Compensate

31:51

them for this on top of armor

31:53

your clothes off. Spinner

31:56

Swill Experience. All

31:58

of it brought. On by

32:00

by. Evidently my stubbornness

32:03

believe that I. Couldn't

32:06

possibly be a victim. Has

32:11

your wife during throughout the thought process. With.

32:13

This new knowledge. She's.

32:16

Not real happy obviously. At

32:19

all. Or

32:21

hear a lot of I Told

32:23

You So And at this point

32:25

I've got no defense. She's absolutely

32:27

right. The No

32:29

Question about. Do

32:32

you worry this is going to affect your marriage? Yes,

32:39

There has been an attack. And

32:45

do you think that at

32:47

this point there's any way

32:49

for James and his family

32:51

to get some kind of

32:53

justice or at least find

32:55

some kind of closure? I

33:00

just as some. Likely to

33:02

have this point, I'm not

33:04

necessarily expecting much on the

33:06

way of restitution. And

33:09

as her closure it's a little

33:11

bit too soon to town. And

33:15

away James has gone. Through several

33:17

stages of acceptance of for

33:19

what happened. There fear

33:22

they're saying there's resignation and now

33:24

he's talking to me. partly because

33:26

he feels like it's a public

33:28

service. That he or she needs

33:30

to be vocal so that other

33:32

people. Don't. Go through what gone true

33:35

and false or the scam. And.

33:38

I think it also kind of helps

33:40

them feel a little bit empowered in

33:43

a situation for of a last year

33:45

and a half. His kind of at

33:47

mercy of these people who were calling

33:49

him multiple times a week. I

33:54

want to try to get as much

33:56

information to as many of the his

33:58

official organizations of. What? I

34:02

have a streak of anger through me now

34:04

that. I've

34:07

the up to the point where

34:10

I'm not gonna let this go.

34:20

Well Maria thank you. For

34:23

having a. It.

34:47

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