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Fresh for everyone. Merkle.

0:34

Media. I guess

0:36

it's time to go back in time.

0:38

Are you telling me you built a time machine?

0:42

Kind of a DeLorean? Time

0:45

is but a stubborn illusion.

0:48

I have a lot of memories of

0:50

the past. People are time

0:53

traveling within themselves. Time

0:56

travel is possible. I've

1:26

been thinking about how many people have heard your Bigfoot encounter.

1:38

It's a pretty good Bigfoot encounter.

1:41

I started talking to some people.

1:45

When I was listening to your show, one of

1:47

your guests asked you a question. I

1:49

don't know if you've ever saw Bigfoot.

1:51

I just laughed because everyone knows you

1:54

saw Bigfoot. But as time goes on,

1:56

people don't realize you've had a

1:58

Bigfoot encounter. Do you run

2:00

into that a lot? Do people a lot of times

2:03

just know that you've had a Bigfoot encounter? No,

2:06

I do. You have to forgive my voice

2:08

tonight. I'm still fighting that walking pneumonia. Hopefully

2:11

my voice doesn't crack or anything tonight.

2:13

But no, I do get that a

2:15

lot. I think that is

2:18

somewhat intentional because the show, I

2:20

try and make the show about other people's

2:23

encounters. Not about me, not about my encounters.

2:26

Sometimes I'll talk about it. But

2:29

for the most part, I try and make it about the

2:31

guest, and I try and make it about their encounter. So

2:34

maybe that's why. I do remember him

2:36

coming on the show though, and he did

2:38

say, I don't know if he had

2:40

an encounter or not. I just let it go. But

2:43

I try and

2:45

make it about other people, and about their encounters, not

2:47

so much about myself. Yeah, I

2:49

can understand that. That's how I pursued

2:51

this show as well. When

2:54

this whole show started up, you were

2:56

a big part in helping me form

2:58

the whole process of

3:00

getting this show up and running. I remember that's one

3:02

of the things you said to me is that when

3:04

you're interviewing people, you gotta try making it about them,

3:07

not you. So less of you, more of them, because

3:10

people are tuning in to hear the guest.

3:12

And I took that to heart, and hopefully

3:14

the audience feels the same way. So

3:17

we're here tonight because we wanna

3:19

get your Bigfoot story out there again. We

3:21

wanna share what you saw, which you and

3:24

Woody saw actually, your brother. So

3:26

if you want, just walk us into

3:29

what exactly happened the night that you guys saw

3:31

this stuff? How did it all develop? Well,

3:33

and I don't know how far back you want me to go.

3:38

It all started, we actually went for a drive

3:40

one night, and there's

3:42

kind of a backstory to that. I don't know if you want me to

3:44

go into it. Yeah, go ahead. The

3:47

reason why, a lot of people wanna know why

3:49

we went out for a drive that night, and

3:52

we actually went out for a drive that

3:54

night because it was 2012, man, And

3:58

it was a rough, rough year for me. A

4:00

very, very rough lot of family does.

4:03

Ah, my dad died of

4:05

cancer and. My. Grandfather died

4:07

of cancer all within a matter of

4:09

couple months of each other. In

4:13

I was out of work, I'd been

4:15

laid off and. It

4:18

was just a rough a rough year. Man it

4:20

was just a really rough time. Try to one

4:22

the worst time to my life was two thousand

4:24

and twelve. And. What

4:27

we ended up happening is what he had

4:29

come over one night. And.

4:31

I was actually I'm looking for work in.

4:33

I was that it was probably almost midnight

4:35

when he came over somewhere around there. And

4:38

we were just talk and him and I were just talking in

4:40

the in if you know what he. Is

4:42

not. really isn't a man the tell you

4:44

about the ways feeling. He's. Got, I

4:46

mean, you don't Tony? Yeah, farm. He's kind

4:49

of odd. Sees a tough guy. You know

4:51

it's a tough guy. And he

4:53

had come over and I knew he was gonna. You

4:55

know I think it's that time in our lives. Both

4:57

of us for kind of lost because. I

5:00

mean. Hell, my dad just

5:02

died. Grandfather decide. You know it's. And

5:05

weird so he'd come over. We were just

5:07

kind of. We started talking

5:10

about everything. And I said

5:12

the would He has said dumb sisters go

5:14

for a drive in a just go for

5:16

a tribal to get outta here. And

5:18

just go and talk. And that's a

5:20

we did. And we decided

5:22

to get out some of the back country roads

5:24

and we decided he noticed to squat and and

5:27

be us and. And.

5:29

That's kinda how the night started. You. Know

5:31

we've been out, just drive around on. Back.

5:34

Roads. And I really wasn't paying

5:36

attention to where we're at. You know, I'm

5:38

Away ended up happening. As we got

5:41

it, we kind of got turned around

5:43

the road. We're coming out

5:45

and people in the area will know it. We.

5:47

We were by more than falls and we had

5:50

taken a turn. On heading

5:52

up toward sunset falls, ny haven't

5:54

actually been up to sunset full

5:56

said minimal to and false many

5:58

times, but I'd never. The gone

6:00

further into sunset false it kind of a

6:02

side road and and if you blink you'll

6:04

miss it. And I don't think

6:06

it's other people go to that area. And

6:09

anyway, we've we've driven. It's in the

6:11

Gifford Pencil National Forest with turban. On.

6:15

Past the the sunset false campground

6:18

where the sky disappeared. And

6:20

we just kept going. And when you

6:22

go past that area. The roads.

6:25

They are real roads is a

6:27

kind of turns into dirt roads.

6:30

And. There's a lot of erosion on those

6:32

roads, says there's a lot of runoff from

6:34

the mountain. And so where you'll

6:36

find answers potholes about every. Ten

6:38

fifteen feet see. Really fan for watch yourself.

6:41

It's not a place you want to really break

6:43

down. On but we're driven

6:45

with from up to the sport for

6:47

the road. And we

6:50

are on! Yeah, Cold Mountain. And at

6:52

the time and you know we're actually on yeah, cold

6:54

Mountain, it's not really. A mountain for

6:56

saying as far as what we consider mountains

6:58

out here in the west and was more

7:00

of a hill. Ah but

7:02

we we started driving up the road

7:04

is back country road. And.

7:08

We. Come to another for for the road. And

7:10

yet A wasn't really a fork in the road. I'm

7:14

sure of one time this. Turn

7:16

off was a road. But. It's more

7:18

or less like a a game. It's a little bigger

7:20

than a game trail. I. Mean you can fit

7:22

a car down it but you can't turn around. You.

7:24

Have to back back back out if

7:27

you go down this road. Anyway we

7:29

had as were pulling up. I

7:32

was cited for a why we're Stopping. And

7:34

what he sort of fruit for will

7:37

drive. And. It

7:40

was a beautiful day when around the mean it really

7:42

was a beautiful night. Will eat. We've now that. This

7:45

is still wintertime. We had the windows

7:47

crackdown. It was beautiful, But one

7:49

thing I noticed we pulled up. it was silent.

7:52

On. And I've been in the forest my whole

7:54

life, had been a hunter my life. i'd

7:56

never heard the for sec quiet the mean it

7:59

was just Well, I and this

8:01

is gonna sound odd. It was so silent. It

8:03

was almost deafening It's almost like

8:05

you get a ring in your ears because it's so

8:07

quiet And i'm asking what

8:09

are you what are you doing? And he's

8:11

saying i want to go down this This game

8:14

trail. I want to drive. I want to put out four wheel drive. I want

8:16

to go down this road And it's like

8:18

two o'clock in the morning and i'm like, hey, man,

8:20

I don't so we start arguing I mean

8:22

you've heard us off here with the renegade podcast

8:25

We will argue and so we're sitting there

8:28

arguing And i'm telling

8:30

begging woody. I'm like don't gonna you know,

8:32

because he's he's an idiot He's gonna drive

8:34

down this road. We're gonna get

8:36

stuck. There's no cell phone service It's

8:39

two o'clock in the morning. I don't really i'm

8:41

not really quite sure where we're at So

8:44

i'm begging him not to do it. So he jumps out

8:46

of the car And

8:48

I know what he's doing. He jumps out. He he

8:51

walks to the front of the car And

8:54

he's looking at the game trail And

8:57

I know what he's doing he's going to come back and

8:59

say hey everything's a okay, we're good to go Let's go

9:01

down this um Let's

9:04

go down this trail Well as he's standing in

9:06

front of the car start yelling at him to get back in the

9:08

car Because he's left his door open and

9:10

everything So he comes back he

9:12

gets in the car. He's like what's wrong with you? And

9:15

i'm like just listen for a second man.

9:17

Just just stop and listen

9:20

to the surroundings And

9:22

he did We both sat there

9:25

probably for about 10 seconds and then he looked at me and

9:27

he said, you know, it's It's

9:29

dead silent out there And I said, yeah

9:31

Have you ever heard the forest act quiet and

9:33

I want to back up for a moment because if If

9:36

you're ever out in the forest during the day, you

9:38

think it's loud try going in the forest in the middle

9:40

of the night It's even louder. I mean

9:43

the forest just comes alive and there was

9:45

nothing No crickets. There

9:47

was absolutely It was

9:49

so silent It made me nervous

9:53

And as we're sitting there, um on

9:55

woody side of the car, we started hearing something walking

9:57

in on the car It's not like a mat That

10:00

sounds like a very, very large

10:03

man. I pictured Andre the

10:05

Giant walking towards the car. And

10:07

it was probably, I'm trying

10:10

to think of the distance. It was still

10:12

quite a ways away, maybe 150 feet, something

10:14

like that. But

10:18

you could hear it. And it was just

10:20

walking towards the car. You could hear every time

10:22

it took a step. We

10:26

kind of looked at each other. And

10:28

I was telling him, what is that? What

10:32

he's like, is it a bear? So we started having

10:34

this conversation about what we think it is. Pretty

10:37

soon on my side of the car, we could

10:39

hear another set walking in. And

10:42

it sounded like people. I mean, it sounded

10:44

like two feet walking in. But the

10:47

way he had parked, so when we started

10:49

going down this game trail, the

10:51

way he had parked, the car

10:53

was kind of not elevated, but

10:55

the nose into the car was kind of

10:57

pointed down. We were on a down slope.

11:00

And the main road was still up there. The main

11:02

road was level, but we were kind of on a

11:04

down slope. And so the

11:07

butt end of the car, if you look back, I

11:09

mean, really just see sky. You really wouldn't see anything

11:11

because we're the way we were parked. And

11:14

I didn't like what was going on.

11:17

I couldn't understand how these

11:20

people could walk in without flashlights. It

11:24

just wasn't adding up. Something just was

11:26

not making sense. Down

11:28

the game trail, we're just about to

11:30

drive down. We could hear

11:32

someone else walking up. And

11:34

when I say walking up, I mean, the leaves

11:36

were down. There was no foliage anywhere. This

11:39

was like November. And

11:41

you could hear these things walking in the

11:45

leaves. And all three of them were

11:48

merging on the car. I mean, they were obviously

11:50

coming towards the car. And

11:52

so we're sitting there trying to

11:55

have conversations about what's going on.

11:57

And, you know, I

11:59

don't know if we just. walked into like somewhat

12:01

into marijuana grow operation. I mean, it's legal

12:03

now, but you know, these things

12:05

are going through my mind. Did we just walk

12:08

into a bunch of military guys out here? It

12:12

just couldn't place what was going

12:14

on. And you know, we're a bunch of tough

12:17

guys sitting there. And we had

12:19

our guns still in the car. I don't

12:21

remember if we're out shooting or if we're

12:23

out hunting. We normally don't ride around

12:25

with an arsenal of weapons, but we

12:27

had good guns in the car. So

12:30

I reached back and I grabbed my

12:32

pistol and it's loaded. And

12:34

I reached back and grabbed Woody's and I hand him

12:36

his. Woody, if

12:38

you know Woody, he's kind of a short temper guy. He puts

12:42

his gun right out the window. He rolls his window down

12:44

and points it right at in the

12:46

general area of where we can hear the thing coming. And

12:49

I told Woody, don't do that. So I

12:52

don't listen. I don't want a

12:54

gunfight. This is the last thing

12:56

I want. And so he rolled

12:59

his window back about halfway up. And

13:02

I was telling Woody, I said, listen, if these

13:04

guys want to fight, we'll give them a fight.

13:06

But I don't want to initiate a fight. I'm

13:08

trying to keep Woody cool in

13:10

this situation. And

13:15

in the meantime, I'm talking because I'm trying

13:17

to keep myself cool in this situation because

13:19

I'm a

13:21

nerd. And behind the car,

13:23

about the time we're having

13:26

this conversation behind the car, you

13:28

can hear the same break out of the out of

13:31

the brush. I mean, it sounded like a tank coming

13:33

out of the brush and it

13:35

was probably 30, 35 feet

13:37

behind the car.

13:39

I'm going to go back up there when I look for

13:41

this missing guy and I'm going to, I'll probably shoot video

13:44

of the area so you know what I'm talking about. Awesome.

13:46

But you hear the same come out of the brush and

13:51

it sounded like, it

13:54

didn't quite sound like it was on four legs, but

13:56

it sounded like it was crawling. I mean, it's.

14:00

I don't think it was crawling,

14:02

but I can't describe it. It sounded like it

14:04

was down low. And

14:06

when I say that, I mean, you could hear

14:08

it coming. It immediately rushed the car. It

14:11

came up like five or six feet and it

14:13

stopped and it growled. And

14:15

I'd never heard a growl

14:18

like that before. I mean,

14:20

I just, the growl was very

14:23

deep. It

14:25

was very low and it was very guttural.

14:28

It sounded like it was coming from the thing's stomach. And

14:31

we kind of looked at each other and it

14:34

rushed the car again, I mean, you could

14:36

hear it quickly move towards the car again

14:39

and it comes up and it growls again at us.

14:41

And the growl, I'm telling you, the growl

14:44

changed every time. It wasn't like,

14:47

I compare it to like, you ever heard your dog growl or

14:49

you don't have a dog, Tony? I grew up a growl. I'm

14:52

sure, yeah, so you know, that dogs,

14:54

when they growl, it's always one growl. Whether

14:56

they're mad or scared, it's always one

14:59

growl. This growl

15:01

changed. I'm telling you, this growl changed. It

15:03

got madder as it got closer. And

15:07

the second time it growled, Woody looked at me

15:09

and he was like, do you hear that? I

15:12

mean, both of our eyes must have been, you

15:14

know, the size of saucers.

15:17

And I'm like, yeah, I

15:19

heard the growl. And it

15:22

kind of hit me at that moment, like we're pinned in. We

15:25

got one on Woody, whatever's coming in, we got something on Woody's

15:27

side of the car. I got something on my side of the

15:30

car. There's something coming up from

15:32

down that trail. Now there's something behind us.

15:34

And we are absolutely pinned in. Well,

15:37

it moves up again, you know, another five, 10

15:39

feet. And

15:41

all of this is happening really fast. It

15:44

takes me forever to tell it, but all of

15:46

this happened within seconds. This thing

15:48

comes up again and it growls again. And

15:51

I mean,

15:54

every time it growled, it sounded like it was

15:57

more pissed and it was more... I

16:02

wish I could describe it. I'm

16:07

just sitting there, my hands are shaking at this

16:09

point. I know Woody shook up at this point.

16:12

It sounds stupid to say that over a growl. Again,

16:16

we're a bunch of idiots, we're tough guys and blah,

16:18

blah, blah. But I felt like I'd

16:20

been reduced down to

16:22

an eight-year-old. It

16:24

comes up, it's probably

16:27

10, 15

16:29

feet from the car and it crawls a four-time at us.

16:32

Now, I felt this crowd. I

16:34

physically felt this crowd. It might

16:36

have been fear, might have been, it

16:42

might have been fear, I don't think it was because I

16:44

physically felt it. I

16:47

can barely talk at this point. I'm so

16:50

shook up, my

16:52

hands are shaking and Woody's shaking and I'm

16:55

just, I don't know what to do. It

16:58

comes up, it's probably within a foot

17:01

or less of the back bumper. The

17:03

last time they had a crowd at us, and

17:07

it felt like being hit with a baseball bat. I

17:11

remember even leaning forward, it

17:13

felt like a demon sitting on

17:16

your shoulder, growling right in your ear. I mean,

17:18

it was so powerful. It

17:22

felt like it was right there on top of us,

17:24

growling at us. It didn't feel like it was buying

17:26

the car anymore. It felt like it was

17:28

just. My

17:35

hands are, man, I'm even starting

17:37

to shake talking about it. Now I

17:39

know how my witnesses feel. I

17:42

look at Woody and I'm

17:45

trying to talk and Woody's

17:47

like, hey, he's

17:50

not really saying anything. He's just looking at me

17:52

and I'm like, back up, back up, back up.

17:54

Start the car and back up. And

17:57

I'm like, but do it slowly, but back up. And

18:00

so he does he starts a car and and when

18:03

he when we started backing up I thought for sure

18:05

we were gonna hit the same. I

18:08

had no doubt in my mind I thought we were and I was praying

18:10

that we didn't hit it because From

18:13

the growl alone. It sounded bigger than the

18:15

car We

18:18

had done seen anything yet, so he backs

18:20

up turns a car around and

18:22

now I'm on We're

18:24

reversed from where we're at So now I'm on woody

18:26

side of the car and he's on my where I

18:29

was on on that side of the car and

18:32

he gets up on the main road

18:34

and he drives probably I Don't

18:37

know 20 30 Maybe

18:40

40 feet something like that and

18:42

he throws it back in Park and

18:45

he shuts the car off and I'm

18:50

You know, I'm screaming at him. I won't tell you what

18:52

I said I every other word was the F word, but

18:54

I was like what the F are you doing? Let's

18:57

go. What are we doing? And

18:59

he you put his hands up and his hands

19:01

were just shaking and my hands were shaking And

19:05

coincidentally, we're both still holding our guns. I don't think

19:07

we even realized at the moment. We're still holding the

19:09

guns And

19:12

he said, you know, man, I just I can't try

19:14

I can't drive us at the moment I

19:17

need a I need a minute and

19:19

I understood what he meant because as I told you the

19:21

roads coming up there man, they're See

19:24

you don't do over 20 miles an hour on these

19:26

roads unless you want to blow out a tire Okay,

19:29

and they're dangerous roads. You can go off the side

19:31

of the mountain. They're not roads. You really

19:33

want to you know go full blast

19:35

down and So

19:37

we're sitting there in the car and he looks over

19:41

to his he's looking out his

19:44

passenger side window Or

19:46

a driver's side window, I'm sorry, and he's

19:48

kind of just looking up and I'm looking straight

19:51

ahead And I kind of

19:53

and I felt like I was in a daze. I mean

19:55

I felt like I Think

19:58

it was just fear, but I really felt like I was in in

20:00

a daze. And I looked over at

20:02

him and he kind of looked back over at me

20:04

and he said, do you see what I see over here? And

20:07

I said, what is it? He goes, I don't

20:09

know. And I looked over and I looked up

20:12

and up in this tree, you could see there's

20:15

all the, all of these birch

20:17

trees out there and it's, they have white

20:20

bark. This thing had its arms. It

20:22

was probably 15, 20 feet up in the tree. It

20:24

wasn't really that high up in the tree and they

20:27

had its arms and its legs wrapped around this tree.

20:31

And again, I'll send you a picture of him, Tony, because

20:33

there's really no branch. There's not a ton of branches on

20:35

these trees. It just kind of goes straight up. And

20:39

it was looking at us and it was

20:42

just a black figure

20:44

up in this tree and

20:47

it was real shifty moment, real

20:49

shifty movement. It would

20:51

shift from the left to the

20:53

right with its head and kind of upper body.

20:56

And it was kind of looking down at us and

21:00

it reminded me of a monkey. Honestly,

21:02

it reminded me of a monkey, the way it

21:05

had its arms and legs and just the way

21:07

it moved, it reminded me

21:09

of a monkey. And

21:12

so I kind of just sit back in my chair

21:14

and I said, are you talking about that thing in the tree? And

21:18

he goes, yeah, did you see what

21:20

I'm talking about? I said, yeah. I

21:22

said, it looks like a monkey in a tree, man. I

21:24

don't know. And about that

21:27

time we both look back up and this thing's gone.

21:30

Now, we still had our windows down for the

21:32

most part. I mean, I think his was about

21:34

halfway down. Mine was somewhat cracked and

21:37

we never heard this thing leave the tree. Never

21:39

heard it drop. It was

21:41

just gone. And

21:44

off to my right, I could hear, and again,

21:47

this was woody side of the car and it kind of

21:49

goes up this little embankment

21:51

and then it's a tree line. You

21:54

could hear the same breathing inside this tree line.

21:58

And I've said like Darth Vader, I've said. You

22:00

know, like a fat guy that

22:03

just got done running a mile. He

22:05

would breathe in just as hard as he would breathe out.

22:07

And it was just inside the tree line. We couldn't see

22:09

it, but you could hear

22:11

it. Just breathe in and breathe out. It's kind

22:13

of like how I'm breathing now, being sick.

22:16

It was very raspy. It was very, very,

22:19

it sounded like a sick bear. And

22:22

I'm telling Woody, I'm like, do you hear this? Listen over here.

22:25

Do you hear this? And so

22:27

he kind of leans over and I'm

22:30

looking, it's kind of diagonal to my mirror,

22:33

my passenger side mirror. And I'm looking kind of

22:35

at the mirror and I'm kind of looking up.

22:38

And about that

22:41

time I saw something run behind the car. It's

22:43

just a flash, like a black flash. And

22:45

then it took off again. And then

22:47

it came back and then it took off again. And

22:50

I was about ready to tell Woody, I want to leave.

22:53

I don't want to be here anymore. I want to leave. And

22:56

about that time he leaned over and said,

22:58

I think we're being surrounded again. And

23:01

I said, yeah, I just want to

23:04

go. I don't want whatever's going on up here. I want

23:06

no part of it. I just want

23:08

to leave. I felt like Alice

23:10

in Wonderland at that point. It was just like, I just want

23:12

out of here. So

23:14

he goes to start the car and

23:17

take off. And

23:19

that's when we actually saw it. The

23:23

thing stepped out off the embankment into

23:25

the road. Now the

23:28

embankment again, because I've been

23:30

back to the area, you can't step

23:32

off of it. Like I couldn't step off of it.

23:34

It would take about three or four steps for

23:37

me to get down to the road. This

23:39

ain't just one step and it's on the road. And

23:43

I wasn't, I

23:46

didn't know what I was looking at. It was

23:48

huge. It looked like a man, but it

23:50

wasn't a man. It

23:53

looked like a gorilla, but it wasn't a gorilla.

23:55

It was just a huge, bulky,

24:01

And it was muscular

24:04

and it started walking across the

24:06

road. It took about three or four steps,

24:08

walked across the road, but

24:11

it would stop. It would take a step and it would

24:13

kind of stop and it would turn its whole upper body

24:16

and look at us. And then it would take like one

24:18

or two more steps and turn its

24:20

body and kind of look at us. It was

24:23

very, I felt like it was meant to

24:25

intimidate us. And this thing

24:28

was doing a good job at that of intimidating us.

24:31

And it goes across the road and

24:35

I'm sure we were yelling at the time with that

24:37

was that, you know, I

24:40

just remember my job being down. My job just

24:43

being on the floor, my eyes being real big. And

24:46

it goes across the road and it

24:50

goes behind this kind of a deadfall

24:52

tree. The tree had been broken. It

24:55

was about eight feet up, but it was just kind of this dead

24:58

tree and it walks behind it

25:01

and stands there and we

25:03

could still see it. I mean, it was taller

25:05

than the tree. We could still see from about

25:08

the shoulders up. So it wasn't hiding from

25:10

us. We could still see it. And

25:14

Woody goes and he's acting like he's going to start the car

25:16

and he's going to drive us out of there. And

25:18

I'm like, don't what I'm like, I'm begging

25:20

him at this point. Don't drive past that thing.

25:24

Tony, this thing was so big. I

25:27

think at the time of when I first started, you know,

25:29

I thought it was like 12 feet tall. I think when

25:31

we went back, realistically, it was more

25:33

like nine feet tall. But at the time, I mean, this

25:35

thing could have been 50 feet tall.

25:38

I had just never seen anything this physically

25:40

big before. But

25:42

it was about nine, nine and a half feet

25:45

tall. And it probably weighed about a thousand pounds

25:47

minimum. And I

25:49

was sitting there thinking like, please don't drive as somebody

25:51

please don't drive as I pass it. Because

25:55

I honestly, my heart I felt like it could have

25:57

grabbed this. It was so big. I felt like it

25:59

could have grabbed. grabbed the side of

26:01

the car and flipped it over. And

26:04

there would have been nothing we could have done about it.

26:07

And we couldn't turn around and

26:09

go the other way because this

26:11

is the only way off the mountain. So we're

26:13

stuck. If we turn and

26:15

go the other way, we'll be

26:17

on some crazy road. I

26:20

don't even know where it goes. We have to

26:22

go this way to get out of here. And

26:25

so it's kind of a one road in, one road out

26:27

type of deal. And it

26:30

comes out from behind this tree. And

26:35

it got

26:38

down like it was going to charge us. I

26:40

mean, it got

26:42

down on all fours, not kind

26:44

of on all fours. It got down like you'd see

26:46

a runner get down.

26:48

You know, like a runner right before it takes off for a

26:51

race, they kind of have their butts

26:53

in the air and their hands are down. That's

26:55

what the thing did. And

26:57

it would pump. It's but like it was

26:59

going to charge us. And I'm

27:01

sitting there with my gun, my hands are shaking. And

27:07

in my mind, I'm thinking, please don't charge

27:09

a car. Please don't charge a car.

27:12

Because I knew our guns weren't going to kill us. There's

27:15

no way our guns were going

27:17

to even take the thing down. And

27:21

then it stood up and it went

27:23

back to the dead fault tree and

27:25

it stood there. Pretty soon

27:27

it come back out. Did the exact same thing, act

27:29

like it was going to charge us. And

27:32

then it would stand up and it would walk back.

27:34

And it must have done this. Woody and I still

27:36

argue about this, but Woody says,

27:38

you know, it was, I

27:40

don't know what he did five or six times, I think

27:42

is what he says. I swear the same

27:44

did it way more than that. I mean, we sat there

27:46

and every time it came out,

27:49

my heart sank. I thought for sure it was going to

27:51

charge us, but it didn't. It

27:54

stood back up, started walking back

27:57

over behind the dead fault tree.

28:00

And about that time we saw where that one

28:02

had stepped off the embankment. There was another one

28:06

But it was it it was different

28:09

It jumped across the road Bounced

28:12

off of it like it was a trampoline and then went

28:14

off into the bushes and it was gone the

28:17

one that the big one if you

28:20

can picture like Arnold

28:22

Schwarzenegger a thousand pounds and nine

28:24

and a half feet tall That's

28:26

kind of what the thing looked at looked like

28:28

the head was very small and

28:30

it sat right on the shoulders but the head I

28:34

say at the time it reminded me of a Kind

28:38

of a cartoon character because the head seemed like it was

28:40

too small for the body The

28:42

shoulders were extremely exaggerated.

28:44

I remember just focusing in

28:47

on those shoulders every time it

28:49

came out because The

28:51

shoulders had been at least six feet wide I mean it

28:53

was the biggest thing I'd ever seen in my life and

28:56

it went down to like a V You

28:58

know like when you see Patty she she's

29:00

big but she's not Stacked

29:03

she's not like Ripped

29:05

out seems more frumpy. Yeah, very frumpy. This

29:07

thing was not like that at all not

29:10

even close and It

29:12

was narrow in the waist the the

29:15

legs on it were like tree trunks The

29:17

one thing I can tell you about it is the knees

29:19

aren't in the same place where our knees are at The

29:22

knees are actually farther down And

29:26

it walked bent knee the whole

29:28

time it never straightened up and

29:30

it kind of walked I Say

29:34

hunched over what he said more like slouched

29:37

over but it what it

29:39

reminded me of I did an interview with Chris Jericho

29:41

and I was looking at some of these wrestlers And

29:44

you ever see a guy that works out too much on

29:46

his chest And what ends

29:48

up happening is the muscles tend to pull roll

29:50

the shoulders forward and kind of

29:53

pull that the shoulders down That

29:56

and I think that's why it's a hunched over it kind

29:58

of had that it was like it was too, I don't

30:02

know, I'm not doing a great job of describing it, but it was

30:04

kind of not hunched, but it

30:06

looked like it worked out too much in its chest

30:09

and kind of pulled, the shoulders

30:11

are kind of rolled forward. The

30:14

arms went down to almost the knees, not

30:16

quite, but almost to the knees. The

30:20

one that jumped across the road was

30:22

built nothing like this other one. It

30:24

was skinny, it was tall,

30:27

it was kind

30:30

of a light gray, whitish color. It

30:35

reminded me of a female jogger, that

30:38

type of body type. It

30:40

was still big, I'm sure it was bigger than me, but

30:43

we only saw it for like 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, and it's gone. When

30:45

I say it bounced off that road, it

30:52

bounced off that road like it

30:54

was a trampoline. As soon

30:56

as it came across the road and

30:58

went off into the bushes, the

31:00

big one stepped back out. I

31:04

honestly thought we're dead. When he stepped out

31:09

this time, he never,

31:12

well, through the alcohol

31:14

encounter, he never turned his back on us, but when

31:17

he came out this last time, he

31:19

was squared up with us.

31:21

He came out to the middle of the road

31:24

and he just collapsed. What

31:27

I mean by that is he

31:29

dropped down to all fours, not like before.

31:32

This was actually dropping down to all fours,

31:35

but it wasn't like how you and I would get

31:37

down on all fours. This thing just collapsed. It

31:39

was down on the ground like a spider. It used its fingertips

31:44

and its back toes and

31:47

it crawled about halfway out, stopped

31:49

for a second, and then crawled

31:51

off into the bushes

31:53

and it was gone. I told

31:55

Woody, I said, let's go. Go, go, go,

31:57

go, go. start

32:00

the car and we came down, remember I was telling you before

32:02

that mountain, you really don't want to go over 20 miles an

32:04

hour coming down. We were probably doing 70, 75 coming

32:07

down. We hit every pothole. I'm surprised

32:11

we didn't wreck, but we hit about

32:13

everything coming down that mountain. And I can

32:17

go into this if you want, but the

32:21

sun was coming up when we're coming

32:23

down the mountain. Now,

32:26

I swear it was like two o'clock in the morning when

32:28

we got there. And it was about

32:30

five something coming down the mountain. And

32:33

so I started arguing with Woody about,

32:35

I said, Oh, the clock in

32:37

your car's wrong. He said, No,

32:39

it's not. I said, No, it's not five o'clock in the morning.

32:41

And he said, No, I think that's

32:47

right. And I was like, were we

32:49

there that long? And so it

32:51

still bothers me to this day, because I

32:53

can't I know we weren't there three hours.

32:55

I know we weren't. Anyway,

33:00

I can come back to that. So I, I

33:03

come home and my

33:05

wife's taken off for work. And

33:09

I'm white as a ghost. And she's like, What's where

33:11

you guys at? She thought we were out drinking all

33:13

night. I'm like, No, we weren't. She's

33:16

like, What's wrong with you? You're white as a ghost. And

33:18

I just said, I couldn't even

33:20

talk at that time. I just said, I don't know. I

33:23

don't know. We saw something. I don't

33:26

know. And then I sat down on the

33:28

bed and literally my leg, my knees, and

33:31

my hands shook for about three hours after

33:33

that. But

33:35

that's the encounter, man. It it changed

33:38

my life. I mean, it's, you

33:42

know, it's, it's

33:45

probably the it's probably the worst thing that's ever happened to

33:48

me in my life. And probably

33:50

the one of the better things that have

33:52

happened to me in my life, it's not, it's

33:54

probably more negative than positive, but it

33:58

was a real eye opener. That's for sure. Yeah,

34:00

absolutely. I mean, a lot

34:03

of good has come out of that encounter as well.

34:06

So I mean, I can totally understand what you mean

34:08

by that. With everything that

34:10

happened, I know you and Woody

34:12

have different takes on different things and stuff. When

34:15

I was talking with Woody, you know, I don't know,

34:17

a while back, I know he

34:19

kind of described it, like he felt like it was

34:21

more, I guess, at times

34:23

paranormal stuff. I know what he's not here. But

34:25

you know what I'm talking

34:27

about? Like he kind of, I think

34:29

you said that you seem like this is more of

34:32

a natural occurrence. But Woody kind of feels like maybe

34:34

there's some kind of paranormal aspect to it as well.

34:36

Am I getting that right? Yeah.

34:38

And I hope I did an okay job

34:41

recounting it. I'm fighting

34:43

a fever. So I don't know

34:45

if I sound coherent or not.

34:47

But yeah, we do have a difference. We

34:49

had a difference of opinion at the time. Woody

34:52

felt like it was, you

34:55

have to understand we at this point, we

34:57

still didn't think Bigfoot. I

34:59

don't think we in one of us said

35:01

Bigfoot. I said we ran into

35:03

monsters and Woody thought it was something more

35:05

paranormal. The reason why Woody says

35:07

he thinks it's something more paranormal is

35:10

because of the way they move. The

35:14

one that jumped across the road.

35:16

It's I mean, you'd

35:18

almost have to see it to believe it. I don't know

35:20

anything physically that could do that. Or

35:24

move the way it moved. The

35:26

big one, even the way

35:28

he walked, didn't seem natural. You

35:30

know, it seemed like the

35:33

way he dropped down to like, almost like a

35:36

spider, nothing about it seemed

35:38

natural. And Woody's

35:40

always thought that there's something very paranormal

35:42

about Bigfoot. And I think it's mainly

35:44

because of the way they move. Yeah,

35:47

I mean, I guess, because I know there's a

35:49

lot of people out there, you know, obviously it's a big

35:51

conversation, you know, are they natural beings? Are they more paranormal?

35:54

But I mean, if they're moving like that,

35:57

I mean, I could totally see how people

35:59

would think That it's something

36:01

other than a natural creature I mean

36:04

like when you were talking about how you guys I

36:06

think you just started going or getting out of there

36:08

and you stopped And you saw the one in the

36:10

tree and then it was just like it

36:12

was just gone like if they move so fast That

36:14

you don't really get a chance to comprehend that

36:16

they're moving Yeah, that's one of

36:19

the things we talked about to after the encounter was

36:22

The one in the tree the fact that we never heard

36:24

it drop because where was that?

36:27

We would have heard it come down I

36:30

mean we were thinking with some monkey at the time and You

36:34

would have heard we it was about my size.

36:36

It was bigger than a monkey. I'm a pretty big

36:38

guy So but it was about my

36:40

size But we never heard

36:42

it leave the tree and so

36:45

and the growl That's the other thing

36:47

too. If you talk to Woody, which I tend to agree with

36:49

him on that

36:51

he and And you

36:54

can ask him on the renegade podcast. He's

36:56

at work right now, but That

36:59

growl was not a natural growl If

37:02

I can replay that growl for you in

37:04

my head, you would say that's demonic because

37:07

it you know and I've Watched

37:09

go shows where we're go, you know,

37:11

these demons do growl and it

37:14

kind of does sound like that It sounds

37:16

very it does not

37:18

sound natural at all. But yeah, I mean even

37:20

to this day if you ask Woody about Bigfoot

37:23

he's gonna tell you he thinks

37:25

that there's something very paranormal about it. I

37:27

don't think he thinks it's Necessarily

37:30

physical. I mean, I don't want to speak for him, but

37:34

He he he's more on the Ron Moorehead

37:37

Kim and Ron Moorehead get along really well because

37:40

he tends to agree with them on a lot of things Which

37:42

is odd because what he is not If

37:47

you know the guy he's very cut and dry he's

37:49

very black and white I mean prior

37:51

to our encounter he would make fun of

37:53

people who saw Bigfoot you he thought it was a

37:55

joke And I kind of

37:57

get understand why because we have been hunting in

38:01

that general region, not in that specific spot,

38:03

but in that general region, we've been hunting

38:05

our whole lives. We'd never

38:07

seen anything. I mean, we weren't

38:09

looking either, but we had never seen

38:11

anything. We'd never really heard anything.

38:14

We did find a footprint one time, but that's a

38:16

different story. But

38:18

Woody's very black and white. And so for him to

38:21

be, if

38:24

you know anything about Ron Morhead, Woody's kind of on

38:26

the same line of thinking as Ron. I

38:29

have a friend that I used to go to school

38:31

with back in elementary school, and he and I

38:33

have kept in touch over the years, and he's

38:35

a big time outdoorsman. I mean, the guy

38:37

could literally live outside year round. He's a

38:40

huge guy with outdoors.

38:42

And he doesn't believe in Bigfoot. Actually, I should say

38:45

that up until recently, he was

38:47

adamant that Bigfoot's not real. And he

38:49

would come on, sometimes, my YouTube channel

38:51

as a skeptic and give his take

38:53

on certain things that are being presented

38:55

as Bigfoot evidence. And it was

38:57

very interesting to have him come on, but recently, he's

39:00

been changing his tune a little

39:02

bit because of the Todd Standings

39:05

documentary had come out. So

39:07

it comes out and he sees the black face at

39:09

the end of the documentary. And he said to me

39:11

that either that's absolutely 100%

39:13

real or it's a hoax, but for

39:15

him, it actually pushed him closer to belief and stuff.

39:17

So I find it interesting

39:19

how the guys who are outdoors all the

39:21

time, they never see anything. And so they

39:24

think there's no way because I would see

39:26

it if it was out

39:28

here because I'm out here all the time. But

39:30

it's just, it's fascinating how people, their

39:32

mindsets can change over different evidences and

39:34

stuff like that. But

39:37

for you guys, I mean, there's just

39:39

no way around it. I mean, you saw what

39:41

you saw. And so like, you're just thrust into

39:43

this belief. I mean, you have, I'm assuming it

39:45

was an alpha that probably stepped across the road

39:47

and was strutting itself. Is that what you think?

39:50

Yeah, he was the biggest. Out of the three

39:52

that we saw, he was definitely the biggest. And

39:56

he seemed to have the most attitude. I think the one

39:58

in the tree was just more curious. But

40:01

again, it was about my size. The one

40:04

that walked across the road was not my

40:06

size. That thing

40:08

was huge. And he did carry him.

40:11

This seems odd, my impression of it. I

40:14

used to be a bouncer in Vegas, and

40:16

I actually made pretty good money. That's the whole, we'll

40:18

have to do a Renegade show about that because I

40:20

have all kinds of stories I can tell you about

40:22

that. But I could walk, I

40:24

got to the point where I really didn't like fighting.

40:26

I got to the point where I'd been in enough

40:29

fights, I would try and

40:31

avoid a fight if possible. But I could

40:34

walk into a bar there

40:36

in one of the clubs and

40:38

quickly scan the room and tell you who I think

40:40

is going to be trouble, who

40:43

wants to fight, who doesn't. And

40:46

you learn to read people's body language. My

40:49

impression of this thing was if body

40:51

language was bring it. You

40:53

guys want to fight, bring it. And

40:55

it was doing everything it could

40:57

to intimidate us, and it was doing a damn good job

41:00

of it. But when I

41:02

thought I was going to charge a car man, my

41:06

heart sank every time it came out, my heart

41:08

sank because I thought this is it. And

41:12

yeah, I do think he was the alpha male. Yeah,

41:14

I mean, that's what it sounded like to me and

41:16

stuff. When you were talking about it, it just sounded

41:18

like the leader showing everybody else that he's not scared

41:21

of these guys in a car and he's going to

41:23

show them what's up. That's

41:25

what it sounded like to me. Well,

41:27

what's interesting is if you go back and

41:30

you have had time to really

41:32

think about this, he left. I

41:34

say he, I don't even know if it was built like a

41:36

he. After the white

41:39

one had come across that road

41:42

or light gray one had jumped across that road.

41:46

The black one came out, did his

41:48

little Spider-Man move, and then he left. That

41:51

was it. And so I don't know if he

41:53

was clearing the path or

41:55

me and Woody both

41:57

think the white one was more female.

42:00

I don't know why I say that. It just

42:02

reminded me it was more of a female- isk

42:06

type of look as opposed

42:08

to the other one, but I don't know

42:10

if he was clearing the path. I think

42:12

what happened was we had

42:15

driven up there, they were making their

42:17

way down the river, and I can

42:20

tell you more about that area if you want, but they

42:22

were making their way down to the river and I think

42:24

we cut them off and

42:28

they weren't gonna go around us, they were

42:30

gonna make us move, and I

42:33

think that's what happened. I think

42:35

we just cut them off from going down to the river and it

42:37

pissed them off. Do you think that

42:39

it could have been hunting? I know that's obviously a common

42:41

question when people encounter these things like you did. Do you

42:44

think it was feeding time or anything? I mean, were

42:47

they changing the menu? I don't know. Well,

42:50

if you go up there and you're

42:54

on top of that mountain, around two,

42:56

three o'clock in the morning, you can hear them up

42:58

there. You can hear them whoop, you can

43:00

hear them scream, not every night. I don't want to

43:02

make it sound like that, but oftentimes

43:04

you can hear them up there, and

43:06

I think they mainly come down at night in

43:08

that area. I don't know that

43:10

there- maybe it was feeding time, I don't know. The

43:13

direction they were all going was towards the

43:15

river though, towards the east fork of the

43:17

Lewis River was where they were

43:20

all headed. It's hard to

43:22

say, man, but

43:26

it really did change things for me a lot. It

43:29

changed things big time in my life. Do

43:33

you think that you experienced lost time or do

43:35

you think it was just like an adrenaline pump

43:37

thing where you just didn't realize how much time

43:39

was passing because you were so focused on what

43:41

was happening around you? I

43:43

think it was an adrenaline dump. I

43:47

didn't think that much time had passed, but

43:49

obviously it did. But there's

43:52

not a moment- I

43:54

think people when they experience lost

43:56

time, they can't remember certain

43:58

aspects. I remember from that

44:00

night. There's not a moment

44:03

where I think, well, it

44:05

seems like we lost an hour there, you know,

44:08

where we can't remember anything. Both of us remember

44:10

everything. So I think it was

44:12

an adrenaline dump. It's

44:15

interesting. When we got back, I'd

44:17

actually called Fish and Game. And

44:20

I was telling, I was rambling off a

44:22

million things, a million miles an hour. And

44:25

they put me in touch with a guy. It was an

44:27

old man that got on the phone. And he said, blow

44:29

down Wes, what did you run into? And

44:32

so I'm telling him monsters. You

44:35

know, I'm now at like an eight

44:37

year old level of

44:39

conversation. And I'm telling

44:41

him we ran into monsters. And

44:43

so I went through the whole story with them on

44:45

what happened. And he said, Well, was

44:47

your brother with you? And I'm like, Yeah, he was with me

44:50

the whole time. And he said, I'd like to talk to him.

44:52

So I gave him his number. And

44:55

about an hour or two later, he called me

44:57

back. And he made a comment to me.

44:59

He said, you know, I believe you, Wes,

45:01

there's too many things

45:03

regarding your guys, what

45:05

you guys saw that night. Because

45:08

I believe you because I think what you

45:10

ran into with Sasquatch, you had a Sasquatch

45:12

encounter. And I was like, well, whatever

45:14

you want to call it, man, but I'm telling you, there's monsters

45:16

up there. And it took a

45:18

long time for me. He had

45:21

said that I didn't really stop and think about

45:23

what he said. I just kept going. And

45:26

it wasn't until about a week later, I was like, I wonder what he

45:28

meant by that. And that's

45:31

how we kind of came to the conclusion that it was

45:33

Bigfoot, because of

45:35

talking to him. But you know, prior

45:37

to that, we just said monsters, we

45:40

ran into monsters. Wow. So

45:42

a fishing game guy told you that he

45:44

thinks you saw a Sasquatch. So at least

45:46

there's one fishing game guy out there that

45:48

actually believes in Bigfoot. Yeah,

45:51

a lot of them do a lot of them do,

45:53

especially here in Washington State, can kind of pull these

45:55

guys off to the side. Most

45:57

of them have either encountered the creature

46:00

or they have a coworker that's run

46:02

into it. Most

46:05

of those guys do actually believe in Sasquatch. Yeah.

46:09

Wow. That's totally different than around here, I'm assuming. You

46:12

know, Northeast, much more industrialized.

46:15

But let me ask you this. The

46:18

days after your encounter, so you said about

46:20

a week later is when you guys started

46:22

connecting dots that it was Sasquatch. The

46:24

time between the actual encounter and the times

46:27

you figured it out, what was life

46:29

like that week for you and what do you,

46:31

did you guys talk at all? Were you guys

46:33

kind of just standing off? Because I know when

46:35

people experience these dramatic things, whether it's a paranormal

46:37

thing, it goes, big foot, whatever, sometimes they shut

46:39

themselves up into a shell and they just don't

46:41

talk about it. What was your

46:43

reaction to this afterwards? We

46:48

didn't really talk a whole lot. The

46:51

biggest problem I was having is at

46:53

sleeping. I couldn't sleep after this encounter. I

46:56

would lay in bed and I would

47:00

close my eyes and I would just hear the growl.

47:04

And I would see this thing. It

47:07

seemed like the encounter kept replaying and replaying

47:10

every time it got quiet at night and I tried

47:12

to go to sleep. So I hadn't really slept and

47:14

probably, it

47:17

took me a couple months actually to get decent sleep.

47:19

I mean, I'd sleep every now and then, but I

47:22

would try and avoid sleeping. And Woody

47:24

and I talked about it probably a week later and I told

47:27

him, I can't sleep at night,

47:29

I'm having trouble sleeping. And he

47:31

said, yeah, I am too. And that's

47:33

when we really sat down and started talking about

47:35

it. And Woody was really the only one I

47:37

could talk to you about it, you know what I mean? Because

47:40

I didn't, who do

47:42

you talk to when you've had me? There was no, I

47:44

know you see all these big foot podcasts and

47:46

now everyone wants to talk to eyewitnesses. But

47:49

back then, it wasn't like that. No one really wanted

47:51

to talk to eyewitnesses on any of these shows. And

47:54

so there really wasn't anywhere to go to talk

47:57

about it. And... I

48:00

just so we would sit down and talk about

48:02

it all the time. And

48:04

one time I had called into Chuck

48:06

Prawls show Chuck's passed away now. Bigfoot

48:10

Tonight show but you know him and

48:12

I were I went on that show and

48:14

I told the encounter and I felt like

48:16

this huge just weight had been lifted. Chuck

48:19

was very kind to me very nice

48:21

very respectful. And I just felt like

48:23

this huge weight had been lifted. And

48:28

that's kind of how we we

48:30

ended up going back up to the mountain. There's

48:32

a lot of other things that happened

48:35

between that time but that's

48:37

really where I thought you know what,

48:40

how cool would it be to start my own

48:42

podcast and just talk to eyewitnesses

48:44

because it feels so good for me to get

48:47

it off my chest to actually talk to

48:49

someone and not have them go okay well

48:51

what were you guys drinking that night you know

48:53

or start cracking jokes. And

48:57

that's kind of how the podcast started getting

48:59

formed at that point. I was like you

49:01

know what let's just talk to people about

49:03

their encounters. Little did I know it

49:06

wasn't quite as simple as I thought it was going to

49:08

be. Sorry

49:11

man I'm rambling. No it's actually fine

49:13

because I was actually literally going to ask

49:16

you that next question which was going to

49:18

be you know I had the show start

49:20

which you kind of just spilled in there

49:22

for us. I mean with the show itself

49:24

you know how do you think the

49:27

show Sasquatch Chronicles has affected

49:30

the Bigfoot community of people over

49:32

the last I don't know was it

49:34

five six years seven years. How has

49:37

it affected the Bigfoot world? Yeah I

49:39

mean like before you started the show

49:42

there was nobody doing shows with Bigfoot

49:44

encounter stories. And since then it seems

49:46

like it's a go-to thing for a

49:48

lot of people. Do

49:50

you think that you and then

49:53

the show itself has helped propel

49:55

the Bigfoot community in a certain direction as far

49:57

as awareness? Um,

50:03

that would be pretty arrogant, I think, for me to

50:05

assume. Um, I don't

50:09

know if my

50:11

show was the cause of all these other

50:14

shows popping up. I mean, God,

50:16

last time I looked, there was like 10 different

50:18

Bigfoot shows and they all do encounter stories and

50:21

they have eyewitnesses come on. And,

50:23

you know, I guess it would

50:26

be nice if, if, if I felt that

50:28

way, like, Hey, I was a part of that. I, I,

50:30

I won't say that I was, but

50:33

it, it, the shift changed a lot

50:36

because back, back then, everyone

50:38

wanted to talk to authors. They

50:40

wanted to talk to eyewitnesses or

50:42

not eyewitnesses. They wanted to

50:44

talk to authors. They wanted to talk to

50:46

researchers. They wanted to talk to experts and

50:50

I wanted

50:52

my show to be different. I wanted to

50:54

talk to eyewitnesses because I never really thought

50:56

there was a ton of information coming from

51:00

authors, researchers, and experts. Um,

51:03

it seemed like people who just had encounters

51:05

and now give themselves titles, but

51:07

I wasn't such a hard ass back

51:09

then, like I am now with these people. Um, but

51:13

yeah, it would

51:15

be nice to think that I changed it somehow.

51:17

I won't say that I will, I did, but,

51:20

um, it is nice to see these other shows

51:22

pop up where their focus

51:24

is eyewitnesses. Cause that's really

51:26

the, where you get the bulk of your, your knowledge

51:29

is for my witnesses and behaviors. You

51:32

know, I've learned so much from talking

51:34

to other eyewitnesses and I've become more open.

51:37

Uh, when I first started the podcast, I wouldn't

51:40

hear of anyone saying it looked human

51:42

or I wouldn't hear of anyone saying

51:45

it had glowing red eyes or I

51:47

wouldn't hear of anyone, anything weird. I wouldn't hear

51:50

it. No, I knew it all at

51:52

that point in my life. I knew it all. And I

51:54

was very arrogant about it, you know,

51:56

flu players and everything else. Then

52:00

my mindset, my mind, I

52:02

can't even talk, my

52:04

mindset started changing to where,

52:09

let's listen to everyone. Because

52:11

if you're truly in this to solve

52:14

this mystery, and if you're truly

52:16

in this for recognition of

52:18

Sasquatch, then

52:21

you have to hear everyone out. It doesn't mean you

52:24

believe everyone, but you have to hear everyone out. And

52:28

if you don't, you're being very disingenuous

52:31

in your pursuit of trying to find answers.

52:34

And so I started changing my

52:37

mindset on the show. And a

52:42

lot of things I wasn't prepared for with the

52:44

big four worlds. I wasn't prepared to

52:46

deal with a bunch of crazy people. I

52:49

wasn't prepared to deal with egos. I

52:52

wasn't prepared to deal with an arrogance of

52:55

a lot of these researchers. And

52:58

I give researchers

53:00

a hard time, but

53:03

there's an ego and an arrogance about

53:05

them. And I feel

53:07

like I speak kind of for the guy

53:10

that had an encounter, and the

53:14

guy that's not well known in the big four world. I

53:16

speak. And so a lot of these guys I

53:18

like to put them to task. If

53:20

you come to me with an arrogant attitude and you got

53:22

an ego about you, believe me, we're gonna

53:24

go to task when we talk. I'm

53:26

gonna put you to task and you're gonna answer

53:28

questions. If you know so much and you're such

53:30

an expert, we'll find out. And

53:34

most of them, I've never had anyone. I

53:37

sound like a dick, but I've never had any of

53:39

the tasks. I've never had, and I'm not like that

53:41

with everyone. I try and be very respectful to everyone.

53:44

But if you come to me with an ego and

53:46

arrogance, that's one thing I can't

53:48

stand. I just can't, it drives me nuts. Especially

53:51

in this field, because the public

53:53

thinks we're chasing unicorns anyway. And

53:55

now you have an arrogance and ego about you. So,

53:58

I... I'm

54:00

not really in the Bigfoot world. So I guess I

54:02

can't speak for the Bigfoot world I'm

54:05

kind of the outsider and I kind of do

54:07

my own thing and I do

54:09

what works for me So they can

54:11

go and do whatever they want to do, you know

54:14

Yeah for sure. I mean it kind

54:16

of speaks a lot though I mean your you

54:18

said about how you've changed your mindset throughout the

54:21

years of doing the show and I kind of

54:23

respect that a lot Because I mean just this

54:25

year of past year of me doing the show,

54:27

you know There's a lot of thoughts and opinions

54:29

that have evolved over the last

54:32

year So I'm sure if I listen to

54:34

my first ten episodes I'm probably gonna say

54:36

something in there that I don't necessarily feel

54:38

like I believe today or I might have

54:40

a little bit of a Different opinion on

54:42

today, but that just speaks to somebody who's

54:44

willing to you know Accept different thoughts

54:46

and opinions and grow mentally along

54:48

the way with time. I

54:51

know for me personally My Entrance

54:54

into the Bigfoot community online Like I was

54:56

always interested in the topic and I would

54:58

look into it here and there But the

55:00

actual Bigfoot community and the

55:03

online community especially my entrance

55:05

into that was through Sasquatch Chronicles I remember what

55:07

happened. I was at my house. I was getting

55:09

ready for work I was getting ready to leave

55:11

for work and I was watching monster quest and

55:13

they had a Bigfoot show on and I was

55:15

like I don't want to leave right now. This

55:17

is awesome I want to watch it, but I

55:19

had to get going and just hit me I

55:21

was like I wonder if there's any kind of

55:23

Bigfoot radio show that I could listen to online

55:25

I don't even know what a podcast was and

55:27

I just googled it and I came across your

55:29

Your show that morning before I walked out of

55:31

my apartment and I hit play I listened to

55:33

like five minutes was like dang and for like

55:35

the next I don't know months and a half

55:37

two months I was hooked like

55:40

I binge through all your shows to catch up

55:42

and ever since then obviously I've been in faithful

55:44

with listener and You know hearing that I would

55:46

ask you like I

55:49

know you personally and I know who you are as

55:51

a person and I know that you

55:53

care about people and If

55:55

you you know one day if you

55:58

know Wes Germer hangs it up up and

56:00

he just sails off into the sunset. If that

56:02

were to ever happen, what

56:05

would you want as

56:07

a lasting memory for people?

56:09

How do I say this? What

56:12

kind of impact would you like to be able to

56:14

say you had on people's lives in a positive way

56:16

when this referring to

56:18

the show and what you do for people as far

56:20

as them coming on the show to share their experiences

56:23

and things like that? Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

56:27

Yeah, and that's kind of a hard question to answer. One

56:31

day I will hang it up. And I

56:33

don't know that I necessarily want to be known as

56:35

the Bigfoot guy. I hope

56:38

when I leave the Bigfoot world,

56:40

and eventually I will. I

56:43

hope people remember, I guess

56:46

the biggest thing is I hope, I

56:49

would hope people say, hey, he was a pretty nice guy.

56:52

I think that would be good enough

56:54

for me. The day

56:57

I leave for people to just say, hey, you know what,

56:59

he was a pretty good guy. He was an

57:01

okay interviewer. And

57:03

he always treated people with respect. I

57:07

would hope that I left, even

57:09

though I said I'm not a part of the Bigfoot

57:11

world, I would hope that I left it better than

57:14

where I found it. And

57:16

there always be Bigfoot shows, there always

57:18

be guys that come along better than

57:20

me. I'm sure there's guys out there now that are better than

57:22

me. But I would

57:25

hope that they say, hey, you know what, he

57:27

was a nice guy. And that's what I

57:29

want my legacy to be just he was

57:31

a good guy. Again, he was an okay interviewer.

57:33

He always treated people

57:35

with respect. And in

57:37

the Bigfoot world, those

57:40

are things that are lacking. Not

57:43

a lot of nice guys. And when I say the

57:45

Bigfoot world, I mean, like a lot of the researchers

57:47

and experts and a lot

57:49

of not all of them, I feel like I'm bashing everyone.

57:51

But there's

57:53

a lot of humble pie that a lot of people could

57:55

could use in their life. And

57:58

you know, you I

58:00

guess just treat people the way you want to be treated, talk

58:02

to them the way you'd want to be talked to. And there's

58:05

a lot of that lacking right now. And I think part

58:07

of it's social media and a lot of other things, but

58:09

I don't know. Does that answer

58:11

your question? I feel like my fever

58:14

just answered your question. No,

58:16

absolutely, absolutely. I just wanted to hear that, hear

58:20

what your thoughts were on that, because I know

58:22

I'm the kind of person that even

58:25

at my day job where I drive truck by

58:27

myself all day when I'm around the guys at

58:29

work, I just have this attitude where I would

58:31

like to think that I'm impacting people's lives in

58:33

a positive way. It's funny because

58:35

my mom made this big scrapbook

58:37

for Christmas of us kids' pictures and stuff

58:39

like that as we were little. And she

58:42

gave me this note that I guess apparently

58:44

I wrote to Bill Clinton when I was in

58:47

elementary school. And it was

58:49

full of spelling errors and things like

58:51

that. But the whole thing was littered

58:53

with me trying to ask the president

58:55

to just help people and make sure

58:57

people are okay. I

59:00

just wanted to see people okay, and

59:02

I wanted to help people as much as I can. I think I even asked

59:04

them, if there's any kind of help you

59:06

need, I will help you, all that stuff. And

59:08

so, even from a little age, I was always

59:10

the kind of person I just wanted to impact

59:12

people's lives. And I've noticed with my show, I

59:15

get emails such as that, people saying that

59:17

my show with whatever interview

59:19

I did really helped them further their thought

59:22

process on certain things, and they thanked me.

59:24

And it's just like to hear

59:26

that, it means so much to me personally. I

59:28

know for you it means the same way. Yeah,

59:31

it is kind of nice. I get

59:33

a lot of very kind emails from

59:36

a lot of people. And people

59:39

are sick, stuck in a

59:41

hospital bed that just

59:43

wait till every show comes out every

59:46

week. The

59:48

biggest thing going on, they can't wait till the next show comes

59:50

out. And that means a lot to me. Sometimes

59:52

I think I tend to forget there's

59:55

so many people listening to the show because

59:57

I know I don't say things right. The

1:00:01

right way sometimes or sometimes I'll give

1:00:03

my opinion and then I'm

1:00:05

always shocked the next morning when You

1:00:07

know, I got like a hundred emails that people tell

1:00:10

me They disagree with me and

1:00:12

I must come back and I'm this and I'm that I'm

1:00:14

like I don't remember saying that during the show and I

1:00:16

go back and listen. I'm like, oh, yeah, I did say

1:00:18

that during the show And

1:00:21

so yeah, it's nice. It

1:00:24

is nice. You know the fans I Guess

1:00:27

you asked about the the biggest thing I

1:00:30

the biggest accomplishment I can

1:00:32

say is My

1:00:35

fans that listen to the show the

1:00:37

one thing that I love is they've

1:00:40

become very Intel a

1:00:42

very smart on the subject because they've listened

1:00:44

to So many

1:00:46

encounters they've listened to behavior. They've

1:00:48

listened to descriptions. They

1:00:51

listen to You

1:00:53

know, they're a very well well educated

1:00:55

audience and you know I'm

1:00:57

happy that I was a part of

1:00:59

it because you they know their stuff man You're not

1:01:01

gonna come on and be awesome. I know their stuff

1:01:05

and a lot of times when I have like a researcher

1:01:07

on or an author

1:01:09

on The

1:01:11

you're going up against a very intelligent audience and you

1:01:14

better know your stuff when you come on with as

1:01:16

far as those guys go because the

1:01:18

audience will eat them alive and So

1:01:21

and I I don't mean that in a bad way I

1:01:23

hope I came across the right way, but they're

1:01:26

just a very well educated audience and

1:01:28

I think that's Maybe

1:01:30

a nice legacy to walk away with with people listen

1:01:32

to the show go. Hey, you know what? I know

1:01:34

so much more Because I listen

1:01:36

to the show and again, it's not really

1:01:38

about me. It's about people's encounters. So It's

1:01:43

kind of a it's a little community,

1:01:45

you know what I mean? Yeah, I

1:01:47

Absolutely. I agree with you a

1:01:49

hundred percent So

1:01:51

today you're going up there to the mountain and

1:01:53

to look for that guy that went missing or

1:01:56

at least helped you and You

1:01:59

told me that that's in the area generally where

1:02:01

you had your encounter, right? Yeah,

1:02:04

it's about half a mile, maybe a

1:02:06

quarter of a mile from

1:02:08

where we actually had our encounter. And

1:02:11

what's interesting, so in that Sunset Falls

1:02:13

campground, I'll

1:02:16

send you the video again, I don't know if I've ever sent

1:02:18

it to you, Tony, we recorded a ball

1:02:20

of light. We were up on

1:02:22

the main road opposite of the campground

1:02:25

on the backside, and we come

1:02:27

across the ball of light. That was only about 500

1:02:30

feet from that campground. And

1:02:32

we filmed that thing, but where that

1:02:34

guy disappeared is right there. That

1:02:37

Lewis River, it's a very fast moving

1:02:39

river, but it's a very shallow

1:02:41

river. It's

1:02:44

not a river I don't think you could drown in.

1:02:47

Yeah, even if he was drunk, I don't know

1:02:49

that he would necessarily drown in that river.

1:02:53

And it's interesting his clothes were found along

1:02:55

the river, but not in the river. And

1:02:59

the story for the audience listening, forgive me, this

1:03:03

guy, he was in it, they were in

1:03:05

the Sunset Falls campground. They

1:03:07

were out four wheeling. They

1:03:09

came back because he wanted to go

1:03:11

and lay down. He wanted to go

1:03:13

back to camp, so they dropped them off. And

1:03:16

then they go back up four wheeling. But

1:03:18

when they came back, he was just gone. He just

1:03:20

vanished. And when

1:03:22

I show you the video of that area, you don't just

1:03:24

vanish in that area. There's a main

1:03:26

road you can stay on. And

1:03:28

I'm telling you that river, if he

1:03:31

had drowned in that river, he would

1:03:33

have washed up about 200 feet away where

1:03:36

it's not very deep. He would have washed up on

1:03:38

the rocks. I think the

1:03:40

deepest point of that river is probably 20 feet max. And

1:03:43

that's one of the deepest areas. So

1:03:46

yeah, I'm gonna go, I

1:03:48

went up last week and I looked for him. And

1:03:52

it's sad, man. It's a

1:03:55

very, very sad story. It breaks

1:03:57

my heart to hear he disappeared in that area. There's

1:03:59

something with that. that region, that

1:04:01

whole Eakolt Mountain. There's

1:04:04

a lot of strange things that go on up there. And

1:04:07

so, yeah, I'm heading back up later today to

1:04:09

look for him. That's really cool, man, that you're

1:04:11

going and helping with that effort. It

1:04:14

sounds very 411 to me, you know, what

1:04:16

David Polaitis says. It just, it

1:04:19

has a lot of the similarities and stuff. And,

1:04:22

you know, I know David never comes out and says

1:04:24

that things that he's describing is Bigfoot, but, you know,

1:04:26

most of us feel like what he

1:04:28

describes is Bigfoot. Yeah.

1:04:31

You know, knowing that you had your

1:04:33

encounter in that very area, it does

1:04:36

lead to a lot of suspicion. And it's not like

1:04:38

you can go up there, look for him with people

1:04:40

and say, you know, I really think that there could

1:04:42

be something else going on here. I had a Bigfoot

1:04:44

encounter up here and we should really think about that.

1:04:46

Because people are gonna look at you like, what? You

1:04:49

know, like, especially in that kind of moment. So they're

1:04:51

gonna probably think you're pulling their leg. So the fact

1:04:53

that you're going up there and helping and everything like

1:04:55

that, I think that's really cool. Wes,

1:04:58

I really appreciate you coming on the show today and sharing

1:05:00

your story and just chat with me a little bit. Where

1:05:03

can people find your show at? You

1:05:07

can go to sasquatchchronicles.com and

1:05:10

check out my website. I'm on

1:05:13

iTunes and Stitcher, Sasquatch

1:05:15

Chronicles. But Tony, I appreciate you having me

1:05:17

on, man. And Confessionals is

1:05:20

an awesome show. You do a great job with

1:05:22

it. And thank you again for having

1:05:24

me. Absolutely, man. Thank

1:05:26

you for all the encouragement you gave me over the last

1:05:28

year. I thought it was only fitting to have you on

1:05:31

today. And we'll talk soon

1:05:33

because later on tonight we're doing a

1:05:35

live show on Blog Talk Radio. Sounds

1:05:37

good, brother. Well,

1:05:43

that's the show, everybody. I really hope you

1:05:45

enjoyed it. As always, I enjoy talking to

1:05:47

the guests and especially this week because Wes

1:05:49

is a good friend of mine. Now remember,

1:05:51

tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern time, that's 8

1:05:54

p.m. Eastern time, go to

1:05:56

blogtalkradio.com backslash theconfessionals and

1:05:58

you'll have access. to

1:06:00

the live show that we're gonna

1:06:02

be doing called the live show after party.

1:06:04

We're gonna have Wes Germer on there, Dave

1:06:07

Groves and a bunch of other people and

1:06:09

you can call in at 713-955-0696. That's

1:06:15

713-955-0616 and you know what? I just saw of it now. Let's

1:06:21

continue this show a little bit.

1:06:23

Let's give you guys some post-show

1:06:26

interview with me and Wes. Hope you

1:06:28

enjoy. You

1:06:57

can include this as an after

1:06:59

conversation too. Are you still recording?

1:07:01

Oh yeah. But

1:07:06

no, I didn't realize how much

1:07:09

it would affect me talking about it

1:07:11

because I haven't told that encounter and probably it's been

1:07:14

probably a couple years because

1:07:16

I don't do a lot of shows. But

1:07:20

I forget what it's like man. My

1:07:22

hands are shaking and you really do

1:07:24

go back into that moment. You really do go. Yeah.

1:07:29

But after you have an encounter, you go back. I could see

1:07:31

it walking across that road and I'm just almost

1:07:33

still kind of ill. You know what I

1:07:35

mean? But

1:07:38

yeah, I

1:07:40

guess it is what it is man. I just wish I felt

1:07:42

better. Like I said, I know I'm running

1:07:44

a fever today. Really? And

1:07:46

you're gonna go out there looking for the guy up

1:07:48

in the mountain. Well,

1:07:51

every day that he's lost

1:07:53

his chances of being found alive go down

1:07:56

a lot. So

1:07:58

I'll get well. A

1:08:00

he still lost in I mean and so. Because.

1:08:03

I know that area. I'm not saying I'm going to

1:08:05

be the one to find them. I will

1:08:08

be sound whoever finds him. I'll be found alive

1:08:10

and well and. Ah, but

1:08:12

every day. I. Sit here and

1:08:14

I don't look form. Of percentages of

1:08:16

finding him alive for food. I mean

1:08:18

his chances of being library now are

1:08:20

some denied. By. So.

1:08:24

I mean around here where I live, I

1:08:26

mean if a by goes missing. It's.

1:08:28

Not because they disappeared in the forest, this because

1:08:30

the my abducted I'm going on since they've never

1:08:33

I've lives of others as a populated area. People

1:08:36

go missing all time stuff like that. I

1:08:38

will. It's interesting that that campground.

1:08:41

Right across from there is the park Ranger.

1:08:45

And it's as old man that's in this

1:08:47

Park Ranger and here are that's in the

1:08:49

scamper and see if yeah, from a big

1:08:52

for hill smile at. And.

1:08:54

He but he won't sell you anything because of

1:08:56

as some of her and it and. I'll.

1:08:58

Say have you ever seeing signs of hear anything

1:09:01

that you know. Doesn't. Belong and.

1:09:03

He. Smiles as. An

1:09:06

overlap with Ah squats and he just gonna

1:09:08

give you a smirk under any your talk

1:09:11

about it. but. That's the

1:09:13

other thing. This guy is

1:09:15

right across from the campground is is

1:09:17

is freaking park ranger. He's. Got

1:09:19

his own little set up across from

1:09:21

a campground so. Before vanishing

1:09:23

nonsense, I just don't. Pyatt. Their.

1:09:26

I don't I don't bus he like he fell

1:09:28

into the river. Okay let's a felon says river

1:09:30

and round. The. Decline out, take

1:09:32

his clothes off, and then jump back in

1:09:34

the river. I mean. Yeah.

1:09:36

The makes no sense. Or. Is

1:09:38

this was close wet when they found. Ah,

1:09:42

probably it's been raining. Fire.

1:09:45

Away. From the river? I don't know. I

1:09:48

should have told you have our footprints. I had

1:09:50

so many other things I can give up with

1:09:52

a ten day. We found footprints. Where.

1:09:54

Where turnover? Amy Adams Chaos

1:09:56

Five know. So. You saw

1:09:58

for. But no,

1:10:01

we actually saw a footprint. We

1:10:03

were on our motorcycles. We were

1:10:05

heading down. I'm

1:10:09

trying to think, we were just outside of Amboy. We

1:10:12

were along, I think it's another fork of the

1:10:14

Lewis River that was off to our right, and

1:10:16

we were on our motorcycles. Did I already tell

1:10:18

you this story? No. We

1:10:20

were heading down and we pulled over to go

1:10:23

down and check out the river. It was like 80 degrees. It

1:10:26

was like a perfect

1:10:28

day. Absolutely perfect. It

1:10:32

was just perfect. We got off our

1:10:34

motorcycles and I said,

1:10:36

let's go down and check out the river. We

1:10:39

started making our way down this hill. Well,

1:10:41

it was a steep hill, man. I

1:10:44

had my steel-toed motorcycle

1:10:47

boots on and Woody

1:10:49

had his on and we could barely get down this

1:10:51

hill. Woody

1:10:55

was in front of me and as we

1:10:57

were making our way down this hill, he goes, hey,

1:10:59

look, a footprint. No,

1:11:03

he goes, hey, look, a Bigfoot footprint. I

1:11:07

was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you

1:11:09

have brothers, you're always screwing with each

1:11:11

other and you're always trying to get the other

1:11:13

one off or you're always trying to just

1:11:16

mess with them. So I thought he was messing

1:11:18

with me. I was like, whatever. I was like, get the ass out of here.

1:11:21

We walked down and we came across

1:11:23

these trees, dude, and the branches were about

1:11:25

this wide. And they

1:11:27

looked like someone went like this, just twisted

1:11:29

them, like matchsticks. We

1:11:34

were looking at the trees. I was like, well, what is this?

1:11:38

And Woody's like, I don't know. That's not weather

1:11:40

damage. And so we keep

1:11:42

walking and there was a bunch of them. And so

1:11:44

we keep walking and

1:11:47

this tree had been picked up out of the

1:11:49

ground and looked

1:11:51

like it had just been thrown off to the side. The

1:11:54

roots and everything Literally picked up. There

1:11:56

was even a hole where the tree had been

1:11:58

physically lifted up. the some after

1:12:00

and I mean a big tree. A tree actually

1:12:02

had the like climb over to get over. And.

1:12:05

He's like woody think that it seems that

1:12:08

fried and sell like someone pulled it off

1:12:10

and. This is before a big

1:12:12

one color so like I was like i know

1:12:14

no I don't know what what caused that. We.

1:12:17

Got down to the river, And.

1:12:19

On were standing on the base of the river.

1:12:22

And it was eerie. Man A, I feel

1:12:24

like we're being watched the minute we are

1:12:27

there are so like are being watched and

1:12:29

we heard was sound like a bird whistling

1:12:31

across the river. but across the river did

1:12:33

it So dense. In full as

1:12:35

you can't see across server. But.

1:12:37

It wasn't a Birtwistle. It sounded

1:12:40

like. A

1:12:42

person. Flash. Bird. Fly,

1:12:44

something else, doing a weird with slide

1:12:47

never heard before and we stop. We

1:12:49

both loved. And then it

1:12:51

is again. And then it is it again. And

1:12:54

I to weird sunless get the hell outta here

1:12:56

Man I don't know what's going on says we're

1:12:59

leaving. One come back of

1:13:01

we go back over the tree and asshole

1:13:03

the true breaks and were walking up the

1:13:05

hill and i'm almost like leaned over try

1:13:07

to get back up the cell. And

1:13:10

I stop. And there's a

1:13:12

footprint. Their. It looked like

1:13:14

Fred Flintstone split. It was about this wide,

1:13:16

but this long. And.

1:13:19

It was very square, very bossy, but

1:13:21

it looked like a human footprint just.

1:13:24

Just on a larger scale. And.

1:13:28

I but it wasn't a human footprint. But.

1:13:30

It was very odd and and I was

1:13:32

like what else s and those williams like. we'd

1:13:34

work on our communication man. Can I

1:13:36

just assume you're screwing with the most? The

1:13:38

time he told me, I can assure us

1:13:40

that we can forgive me again. We.

1:13:43

Get on motorcycles them We leave. And.

1:13:47

We're. Telling people about the sinner like yeah, right.

1:13:49

you guys take any pictures. In

1:13:52

it and we had our phones on us at

1:13:54

the time in never even occurred to me to

1:13:56

take a picture which is on. It was weird.

1:13:59

And so. Like or three

1:14:01

days later were like let's go back. This.

1:14:03

Go back and take pictures that I know exactly

1:14:05

where the footprints that in it was deep down

1:14:07

and in on the side of the hill. Like.

1:14:10

It was walking down in the mud and put his

1:14:12

foot down in the money was only have one spot

1:14:14

result the print. We'll.

1:14:17

Back couple days later. And

1:14:19

it looks like a crime scene had been cleaned

1:14:21

up. I mean you would

1:14:23

have never known that she was pulled out of the ground

1:14:26

ruin the fruit tree was gone. There.

1:14:28

Was now leaf litter down. The

1:14:30

twisted trees were all gone. say there

1:14:32

was no place riga. Oh yeah some

1:14:34

came in and saw this offered some

1:14:36

will get it looked like. It

1:14:39

had to spend whitewash. Old place have

1:14:41

been whitewash footprints on earnings. Fun. And.

1:14:46

I was like a real for a place. Where.

1:14:48

He's like yeah, this is it. And I'm like.

1:14:51

We want that job. The river know what's the right

1:14:53

place? But. All that stuff was gone. And

1:14:56

I don't know how they got the tree out

1:14:58

of their i don't have the airlifted an hour

1:15:00

ahead of airlifted out on. But. It

1:15:03

was very odd is very strange but those a

1:15:05

footprint so I was younger say like I mean.

1:15:07

You. Think it was. somebody came in like

1:15:10

a clear for to clean up. You. Know

1:15:12

the Aga Bigfoot activity. I do.

1:15:15

I. Absolutely do. And normally I would.

1:15:17

I wouldn't say that. But.

1:15:20

This is like the crime scene has been cleaned up.

1:15:23

And you would never know anything was there as he came

1:15:25

back the next day. You would have never known a new,

1:15:27

the simplest or. While. So I i

1:15:29

think someone's him in a way. watched him. As.

1:15:32

Crazy Man. I never knew they were told me that before.

1:15:34

He. Was a turret mounted? Was it and

1:15:36

that? And even then, I mean. Would.

1:15:39

You tell a lot about the bigfoot footprint we

1:15:41

townies I got, so if I just off his

1:15:43

shoe. And I'm like,

1:15:45

no, the foot didn't look right? Is it

1:15:47

looks like. Fruit Flintstones foot

1:15:50

is very boxy. And

1:15:52

adjusted. not. it eludes human life, but

1:15:54

it wasn't a human print. On.

1:15:58

The yeah, that's a story by. Wow,

1:16:01

that's crazy. The only print

1:16:03

I've ever found was, I mean, I

1:16:06

think it was a big footprint because of all the

1:16:08

other activity around us, but it very

1:16:10

well could have been a bear paw overlapping

1:16:12

each other, I don't know. But

1:16:14

it clearly had five toes, you could feel

1:16:17

the impression. It was about, I'd say, oh,

1:16:20

I don't know. I think it was, I can't remember, I think

1:16:22

it was like maybe 11 or 12 inches, something

1:16:24

like that. But I put, I made

1:16:26

a video about it on YouTube and stuff like that. But we

1:16:29

had found a really big tree structure

1:16:31

there. And I used

1:16:33

to think, I didn't know how

1:16:35

I felt about tree structures and all that stuff. And

1:16:37

I guess I still don't totally know how I feel

1:16:39

about them. But I certainly think

1:16:41

it's feasible that these things could be using

1:16:43

tree structures for a form of communication or

1:16:45

things like that, just because Native

1:16:47

Americans did that back in the day. I

1:16:49

mean, back in the day, Native Americans had

1:16:52

actually tied trees so they would grow certain

1:16:54

ways to signify, if you

1:16:56

go this way, there's another tribe there. Or if

1:16:58

you go this way, there's water, like these structures

1:17:00

that they would actually make meant certain things. And

1:17:02

even Boy Scouts do that. I started looking into

1:17:04

that stuff when I was really debating with myself

1:17:07

about the tree structure stuff. Like Boy Scouts, they're

1:17:09

taught to do tree structures. They're taught how

1:17:11

to make different signs with different tree structures.

1:17:13

And so when other Boy Scouts come up

1:17:15

behind them, they know this structure means don't

1:17:17

go down this path, we went to the

1:17:19

right or whatever. And so I

1:17:21

mean, if that's the case, and these things are

1:17:23

as intelligent as we think they are, and clearly

1:17:25

as massive as they are, okay, it

1:17:28

makes sense that they could do tree structures. I don't

1:17:30

necessarily think that they live in huts. I think

1:17:32

tree structures

1:17:35

can be definitely something of interest.

1:17:37

So I know some people bash it though. Yeah,

1:17:40

I didn't buy into tree structures until I went out

1:17:42

to the Browns property and I saw them firsthand. And

1:17:45

I know Jonathan and his brother and I know they're

1:17:47

strong guys, but they're

1:17:51

not that strong. Woody and I went

1:17:53

out and there was a it

1:17:56

looked like a hunter's blind. These

1:17:59

trees had been ripped out of the ground, basically

1:18:01

put it in place and

1:18:03

then the trees were actually wrapped around

1:18:05

each other. And I went to lift one of

1:18:07

the trees off, I'm twice the size of Jonathan. And,

1:18:10

you know, almost so baby. And

1:18:13

I couldn't, I couldn't pull the

1:18:16

tree off of the

1:18:18

tree structure. I mean, I couldn't physically lift

1:18:20

it. I told Woody, I said, Get

1:18:22

in here, help me lift this. Woody and I both couldn't

1:18:25

lift it. So whatever put this

1:18:27

together, I know wasn't

1:18:29

Jonathan or his brother. And I

1:18:32

don't think men put this thing together. But it

1:18:34

was weird because it was if he sat in

1:18:36

it, you could watch the house.

1:18:39

And you would never and you could look out

1:18:41

from the house and you could never even know anything was there.

1:18:44

You would never even see anything there. But you

1:18:47

could have a clear view of the

1:18:49

house, the backyard, everything. And then because

1:18:51

I was trying to figure out why it would

1:18:53

build this structure. If it was Sasquatch, it built

1:18:55

it with the purpose. And

1:18:57

I was looking at it. And then finally, I decided

1:18:59

to get in it. And then

1:19:02

it hit me. I could sit and

1:19:04

watch the house, I could watch everything going on

1:19:06

in the house. And you'd never even had Jonathan

1:19:08

go back towards the house and look

1:19:10

back to see if he could see me and he couldn't see me.

1:19:13

And so I think that's part of it.

1:19:15

But I think a lot of the

1:19:17

tree structures can be explained, not all of them. But

1:19:20

I think a lot of them are weather or even a

1:19:22

lot of tree breaks, to see people post off and say,

1:19:24

Oh, look, Sasquatch did this. I'm

1:19:26

like, No, that's actually weather damage. I've

1:19:29

seen that a million times. Yeah. The

1:19:32

day that we found the big tree structure, it

1:19:34

was like a big teepee. And

1:19:36

everything that was there, everything that

1:19:38

was made of wasn't sawed. It

1:19:41

was all broken. And it was made of

1:19:43

legit trees. The one tree was going from

1:19:45

the base, like 40 feet into the air.

1:19:47

It was amazing. And then as

1:19:49

we were hiking around more, I

1:19:52

found another what I just called a blind. And it

1:19:54

was maybe I'd say 30, 40 feet off trail, and

1:19:58

maybe a little bit more. I saw

1:20:00

off trail and if

1:20:03

you were looking for it you wouldn't notice it you

1:20:05

know. And so my

1:20:07

wife is there lindsay's there dons there and two

1:20:10

other people are there i can't remember their names

1:20:12

but we're all hiking i left them on the

1:20:14

trail and i got back there it's okay it's

1:20:16

about five minutes to get back there i'm

1:20:19

sitting behind this line behind the blind

1:20:21

it's all open like it like you

1:20:23

imagine like i don't know if you're

1:20:25

familiar the north east was but like it's really

1:20:27

thick and lots of dead fall. And

1:20:30

it's just not clean it's very messy

1:20:33

and so when i got back

1:20:35

there getting there it was just tons of

1:20:37

weeds tons of just climbing through a bunch

1:20:39

of crap is that got behind that blind

1:20:41

it was all dirt is all mad

1:20:43

at town and. Maybe

1:20:46

i'd say about ten twelve feet beyond

1:20:48

the blind all the grass and

1:20:50

the thick brush and everything pick back up

1:20:52

again and so i'm sitting back there i'm

1:20:54

actually taking pictures of filming them out on

1:20:56

the trail you could see them out on

1:20:58

the trail. And later on i asked

1:21:01

lindsay i said could you see me back there she said

1:21:03

no we didn't know where you were i thought you were

1:21:05

i was actually getting nervous and so i'm back there i

1:21:07

think i was wearing maybe camo or something i don't know

1:21:09

like like tan clothing. I did have

1:21:11

a red vest on i think but she couldn't see me

1:21:14

and i was just like. I don't know

1:21:16

it's a big foot blind i don't know

1:21:18

probably not but it's possible and it just

1:21:20

shows you that it's very easy to be

1:21:22

back there and hiding anywhere really if you

1:21:24

want to hide it's not too hard. You

1:21:27

know. The

1:21:29

one thing i forgot that i wanted to have you talk

1:21:31

about i can't believe i forgot until just now. When

1:21:35

you and what he heard that horse going

1:21:37

through the forest related

1:21:40

but dang dude like that

1:21:42

wasn't saying like i mean

1:21:44

what happened that you guys you

1:21:46

guys were hunting i guess that what happened and you

1:21:48

guys heard it. Yeah

1:21:51

what happened was we were this

1:21:53

is way before big foot. We

1:21:56

were hunting in an area and what do

1:21:58

you know you're actually pretty even the. we fight

1:22:00

a lot. Like I

1:22:02

know what he's thinking. He knows what I'm thinking.

1:22:04

Yeah. And especially hunting, Woody's

1:22:06

a perfect partner for me to be

1:22:08

hunting with because I can

1:22:11

look at him and do a couple hand gestures and he

1:22:13

knows what I mean. And we don't even

1:22:15

have to speak. I mean, he just knows what I'm

1:22:17

doing. And he does it,

1:22:19

you know, I'm the same way with him. He'll do

1:22:22

hand gesture and I know what he means. My

1:22:24

younger brother's different story. My younger brother will put a bullet

1:22:26

in your back, not intentionally.

1:22:29

So I'm

1:22:31

more leery of hunting with my younger brother,

1:22:33

but yeah, we were

1:22:36

hunting. We were climbing down this hill and

1:22:38

we were in this area called the Susan. And

1:22:41

I'll tell you all about the Susan. It's

1:22:44

a very eerie area

1:22:46

to hunt. It's an area where no one hunts,

1:22:48

but it's the best place to hunt. You

1:22:51

literally, if you want bear, bear, bear,

1:22:55

deer, elk, anything,

1:22:59

this is a place to go. So

1:23:01

we were in there, we're coming down this hill

1:23:04

and I'm doing hand

1:23:07

gestures because I think I hear something. So

1:23:09

we're doing hand gestures. We're coming down this

1:23:12

hill and we come to this opening. It's

1:23:14

just kind of a, what's the word

1:23:16

I'm looking for? Kind

1:23:20

of a clearing. So we walk out into

1:23:22

this clearing and there's nothing

1:23:24

there. And so I look at Woody and we're

1:23:26

still doing hand gestures. And I'm

1:23:29

like, you know, it's gotta be right here. So I tell Woody,

1:23:31

kind of get down low. We get

1:23:33

down low, we start crawling into this area and

1:23:37

there's nothing there. So we stand up

1:23:40

and I'm like, God, I could have sworn I heard something down

1:23:42

here. And about that time

1:23:44

we hear what sounds like a horse coming and

1:23:47

we both look at each other and we look at

1:23:49

the direction we think it's coming and

1:23:51

there's nothing there. And it

1:23:53

sounded like not just a horse. What's those

1:23:56

really big horses? The Budweiser.

1:23:58

Not Maths. You know

1:24:01

what I mean. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:24:03

Yeah. And it sounded like one of those coming. And

1:24:06

it. The five still. Yeah. Yeah.

1:24:10

It ran between us or the noise

1:24:12

came between us and it just kept

1:24:14

going. And we both looked

1:24:16

at each other and I put my hands in there like, what

1:24:19

just happened? And Woody, his

1:24:21

eyes were about this big. And

1:24:24

he's like, I don't know, man. And it was just

1:24:26

an odd. It wasn't.

1:24:29

I'd like to say it was sound bouncing, but I don't

1:24:31

think it was sound bouncing. It

1:24:33

literally the sound came between us and

1:24:36

it sounded like the Clydesdale and then

1:24:38

it was just gone. It

1:24:41

was weird, man. It was a

1:24:43

weird, weird experience. We

1:24:46

didn't see anything. There was no ghost or anything.

1:24:48

It was just noise coming and it was

1:24:50

a trip, man. It was a trip. Yeah.

1:24:54

Did you ever tell us that story on your show? No.

1:24:57

I don't think so. I can't remember

1:24:59

if you told me it personally or if I heard about it

1:25:01

on the show first. I guess

1:25:04

you told me personally. Yeah.

1:25:06

So when you were

1:25:08

doing the, what's his name? Chris

1:25:11

Jericho show. Did he contact you

1:25:13

or did you contact him? No,

1:25:17

Chris contacted me

1:25:21

and asked if I'd like to come on his show. And

1:25:25

that's kind of a funny story in itself. So

1:25:27

being kind of a bigger guy, I

1:25:29

pull up. Chris

1:25:32

goes, just, he goes, I'll tell you

1:25:34

this for a quick. He goes,

1:25:36

just go past security and just come on

1:25:38

in. And if they wave you to stop, just keep

1:25:40

coming. That's Portland

1:25:42

Moto Center. And

1:25:45

I'm like, and I'm trying to figure out how to

1:25:47

get into this place. And I'm not really a huge

1:25:49

wrestling fan. I know who Chris Jericho is, but

1:25:52

I'm not really into wrestling. And

1:25:55

as I'm pulling up to the Moto Center, there

1:25:57

was a line of people like

1:25:59

going. going down the street waiting to get in. And

1:26:02

so I called Chris again and I'm like, Chris,

1:26:05

well, I don't understand where I need to be.

1:26:08

So he goes, go around here and he kind of

1:26:10

explains to me where to go. And he goes, come

1:26:12

around back where they do deliveries and stuff. And

1:26:15

he goes, your security is gonna wanna stop you, but

1:26:17

just keep coming, just go ahead and go on in.

1:26:21

And I'm like, okay. So

1:26:23

I come around and I'm

1:26:25

in my Hummer and I drive through and

1:26:28

the security guys don't even try and stop me. Really?

1:26:32

They just let me drive through. Act like you belong and

1:26:34

you belong. Yeah, so I pull in

1:26:36

and I park and one of the security guys comes

1:26:38

up to me and he

1:26:40

goes, yeah, who you here to see?

1:26:45

And I go, Jericho. And

1:26:48

he goes, oh, you're wrestling Jericho,

1:26:50

huh? That ought to be a good

1:26:52

match. You're a pretty big guy. He goes, I bet you your

1:26:54

chances of beating any. And I'm like, what

1:26:56

is this guy talking about? Like I had no clue what

1:26:58

he's talking about. And I was like, about that

1:27:01

time Chris walked up and

1:27:04

they go, Chris, you're gonna wrestle this guy.

1:27:08

And they're kind of giving Chris crap. And

1:27:10

I'm thinking, if I

1:27:12

ever got in the ring with Chris Jericho, he

1:27:14

would mop the floor with me. Like I

1:27:16

would not stand a chance against this guy.

1:27:18

I'm bigger than Chris, but I know

1:27:20

for a fact he'd mop the floor with me. Chris

1:27:23

was hands down the nicest guy you've ever,

1:27:25

you'd never know this guy was a celebrity.

1:27:27

You would never know he had money. He

1:27:30

was very down to earth. Probably one of the

1:27:32

nicest people I've ever met in my life. But

1:27:35

that's how I got on the show. Wow,

1:27:38

that's crazy. He'd come into Portland.

1:27:42

He invited me, he's got a band called Fozzy.

1:27:45

And they're actually pretty good. But

1:27:48

he invited, so I'm gonna go see him play

1:27:50

here in Portland when they

1:27:52

come. So Chris is pretty talented man. He's

1:27:55

a wrestler, he's a great interviewer.

1:27:57

I would love to have his skillset. But

1:28:01

Chris really is probably the nicest guy on

1:28:03

the planet. You know, I find that people

1:28:05

that are highly

1:28:07

successful, you know, not always, but people

1:28:09

that are highly successful in athletics like that

1:28:11

or something that they often have several skills

1:28:13

that they excel at. And it's

1:28:15

because in order to become a professional

1:28:18

at anything, like you have to obsess over

1:28:20

it until you're like, like, I

1:28:22

always use this example, when I

1:28:24

coached college basketball, before

1:28:27

I was coaching and I used to play

1:28:29

all the time, like I knew athleticism. I

1:28:31

knew like, oh, dude, that guy's

1:28:33

really good, you know? But once

1:28:36

you're around these college athletes

1:28:38

that, you know, they're jumping, they're dunking, they're

1:28:40

jumping through the roof. It's amazing. Wow,

1:28:43

athleticism. What you see before

1:28:45

your eyes and their athleticism is

1:28:47

nothing compared to what the professionals are

1:28:49

able to do. So you see a

1:28:51

guy in the gym and they do

1:28:53

a windmill dunk and it's like, whoa,

1:28:55

you know, incredible. That most,

1:28:58

if you're, if you're in the NBA, like 99% of

1:29:00

the players in the NBA can do that. You

1:29:02

know, like that's just a pre-req, you know? And

1:29:04

so like, when it comes to like Jericho and

1:29:07

the music and all that stuff, I mean, like,

1:29:09

it doesn't surprise me because like these guys are

1:29:11

passionate about things and they have this obsessive attitude

1:29:13

in order to get to where they are in

1:29:15

the first place that makes them great, you know?

1:29:18

Yeah, I was kind of surprised at how

1:29:21

many of the wrestlers listened to my show when

1:29:23

I was there. I was

1:29:25

really surprised. Cause I

1:29:27

wouldn't think the wrestling world would be into Bigfoot, but I

1:29:29

guess they are. And I'll tell

1:29:31

you the other thing too, a lot of those wrestlers, and

1:29:33

I don't know their names, you know, as far as I

1:29:36

can't tell you, oh, I met, you know,

1:29:38

I know Hulk Hogan and Macho

1:29:41

Man, Randy Savage, and, but

1:29:43

those are old men now, you know, that's not the wrestling

1:29:46

world. Well, you didn't know that. Well,

1:29:48

no, no, I mean like I know of them.

1:29:50

Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.

1:29:53

Those are the wrestlers I know. I don't know. I

1:29:55

don't know if they're going into it, but the wrestlers now, I don't

1:29:57

really know a whole lot of them. And

1:30:00

I was the other thing I was surprised

1:30:02

about was how nice everyone was backstage I

1:30:05

mean because that's backstage when we're doing the podcast

1:30:08

before Chris went on and Chris

1:30:10

was like hey, man, if you want to step front row, man,

1:30:13

I'll get your front row and but

1:30:15

I felt like I was I Didn't

1:30:19

want him to feel like he owed me anything so I didn't

1:30:21

take it I wish I would have cuz I would have loved

1:30:23

to sit front row. Yeah But

1:30:26

I but I didn't want to feel like I was

1:30:28

I felt like I was Yeah,

1:30:30

exactly. Yeah, and I didn't want that and

1:30:32

just a such a cool guy man. He

1:30:35

was so nice and But

1:30:38

yeah those wrestlers man, it was crazy. I couldn't

1:30:40

do what they do. There's no way in hell

1:30:42

No, I could do with those guys here the

1:30:44

way they fly off the getting Chris isn't that

1:30:46

big of a guy man I'm telling you Chris

1:30:48

is probably Five

1:30:51

nine five ten what really

1:30:53

maybe I

1:30:56

hope he doesn't listen to this because I'm mad but you

1:30:58

know, maybe 200 pounds Chris really

1:31:00

isn't it? Don't get me wrong. I

1:31:03

think he'd mop the floor with just about anyone But

1:31:05

as far as like size goes like you see him on

1:31:07

TV We're standing next

1:31:09

to each other and the top of his head

1:31:11

comes to about my cheek And

1:31:14

so I was kind of surprised on I

1:31:17

pictured him being this huge huge

1:31:19

guy and he's really not Yeah, that's

1:31:21

crazy that is absolutely crazy. Did you ever

1:31:24

connect with Shaq about that podcast? I know

1:31:26

he contacted you about doing a podcast with

1:31:28

him. I Haven't I

1:31:30

haven't yet. Yeah, I need to

1:31:32

you do and then you need to tell him about

1:31:34

your friend Tony Merkel Who is a huge NBA guy

1:31:36

and would love to talk with him Podcast

1:31:40

oh My

1:31:42

god, I can do yeah, I can do I

1:31:44

need to get some pole like you man I'm

1:31:46

waiting for my first celebrity to email me Yeah,

1:31:49

it's kind of crazy to do when

1:31:51

they you know There's

1:31:54

a lot of guys like Nicolas Cage is really

1:31:56

into Bigfoot and you wouldn't think you would

1:31:59

be buddy really is There's a

1:32:01

lot of celebrities that are really into it, which is kind

1:32:03

of surprising to me. But

1:32:06

I guess it's a mystery. We all love a mystery. You

1:32:08

know what I mean? I think

1:32:10

a lot of times we look at celebrities and we

1:32:13

put them up in pedestals. You and I, we've experienced

1:32:15

just in the Bigfoot community, people would say to me,

1:32:17

oh, you're a celebrity. I'm like, no, I'm just a

1:32:19

truck. I just had a guy message me. We

1:32:22

scheduled an interview for late March and he

1:32:25

messaged me back saying, oh man, I'm really nervous

1:32:28

now. I told myself about what, to talk to

1:32:30

a truck driver? I literally do that. I'm doing

1:32:32

that right now as we're talking. I'm in a

1:32:34

truck driving a truck. I'm just a truck driver

1:32:36

with a podcast. People think

1:32:39

that we're just, oh man. I

1:32:42

can imagine it's the same thing with real life celebrities,

1:32:44

like actual celebrities. They're just normal people. Yeah, it is.

1:32:47

I always say I'm a nobody. It

1:32:51

is kind of weird when people come up to you. I think when

1:32:53

people listen to podcasts, I think

1:32:55

there's a connection that you

1:32:58

have. You almost feel like you know them. You know what

1:33:00

I mean? You feel like you, and

1:33:02

so if you listen to someone every night, I think

1:33:04

I could see why someone would have said that way,

1:33:07

but at the end of the day,

1:33:09

man, I'm nobody important. Like you said is,

1:33:11

you know, if people could

1:33:13

see the timeline of my life, they'd

1:33:16

know it. They're like, oh yeah, Tony just,

1:33:18

Tony said, nobody. I mean, seriously, I spent

1:33:20

most of my 20s doing odd jobs. I

1:33:22

was a mechanic. I was a parking enforcement

1:33:24

officer. I was a truck driver, school bus

1:33:26

driver. I mean, I've done everything under the

1:33:28

sun, you know, and when I was

1:33:31

a kid growing up, you know, from, I don't

1:33:33

know, elementary to junior high, I was picked on every

1:33:35

day of my life. Every day of

1:33:37

my life, I was beat up. Like honestly, I

1:33:40

mean, I'm nobody. I'm the kid that

1:33:42

got beat up all the time. You know,

1:33:44

so you do a good job though,

1:33:46

man, with the confessional sheet. Keep it up. You

1:33:49

definitely, um, there's a lot of, you know, we

1:33:51

talked about all the big fish shows coming up.

1:33:54

There's a lot of bad ones. Um, just

1:33:56

terrible. Just absolutely terrible. Yeah. But

1:33:58

you do a good job. Good

1:34:00

job, man. And it's

1:34:03

not rocket science by any means.

1:34:07

Well, I think it takes... What it

1:34:10

takes is somebody to accept the fact that

1:34:12

they're not perfect and they need to continue

1:34:14

to get perfect. I mean,

1:34:16

if I would have just settled for what I put

1:34:18

out for episode one, I don't think the show would be

1:34:20

what it is right now. Because when I

1:34:22

look back to episode one, it's not awful,

1:34:25

especially compared to most people's shows. It's

1:34:27

not anywhere compared to what it is now.

1:34:30

And you can hear the progression of the show

1:34:32

as it's going on with the production, the audio

1:34:34

quality and all that stuff. And I think there's

1:34:36

sometimes people, they start things

1:34:38

like this and they have no perfectionist

1:34:41

bone in their body. And

1:34:43

so they just... It is

1:34:45

what it is and they say, oh, I think it's good.

1:34:48

No, it's not. I mean, it's just not. And I mean,

1:34:50

how many times do you hear people, especially with

1:34:53

trying to do live shows and stuff? There's

1:34:56

absolutely no script. They just go on

1:34:58

and they just start talking and

1:35:00

they think that people want to hear them just

1:35:04

talking. And

1:35:06

it's like, no, bring something

1:35:08

to the table, bring a topic to the table

1:35:10

to discuss something. But I

1:35:13

don't know. I just think that people... I

1:35:17

think podcasting and podcasters would be so

1:35:19

much bigger and a lot more successful

1:35:21

if they actually took the time to

1:35:23

perfect their craft. But

1:35:25

they just pursue it as a little side hobby. It's building

1:35:27

a little model or something like that.

1:35:30

So they'll do it when they can. Yeah.

1:35:32

I mean, if you go back... I don't think any

1:35:34

of the old big Fosbord radio shows are available. But

1:35:37

if you go back and listen to Woody

1:35:39

and I, man, we were terrible. It

1:35:41

was absolutely... I cringe hearing it. Even

1:35:43

old shows. I mean, I'm talking like

1:35:47

back when I had Will on, man. A lot of

1:35:49

those shows were terrible. Just

1:35:51

absolutely terrible. And

1:35:53

the audio quality I wasn't happy about,

1:35:56

the interview style I wasn't happy about.

1:35:59

There's so many things that... I was so unhappy about

1:36:01

that I wanted to fix. And you're

1:36:03

right, you gotta have that mentality of

1:36:06

wanting to be better and wanting to create

1:36:11

something people want to listen to. Listen, if you want to

1:36:13

get on there and BS for an hour, hour and a

1:36:15

half, you

1:36:17

better be as good as Howard Stern, if you're gonna get on

1:36:19

there and do that. And there's very

1:36:22

few Howard Sterns out there that could pull

1:36:24

that off. And so, you know,

1:36:26

and that's where a lot of these guys make the mistake. I

1:36:30

just listened to a show, I won't tell you what show, because

1:36:32

I know you're still recording. And

1:36:36

it was terrible, man. You know, they're sitting around talking

1:36:38

about, they're gonna monetize their

1:36:41

show. And

1:36:44

they just sit there and it was an

1:36:46

hour of my life I'll never get

1:36:48

back because it was this big, huge

1:36:50

circle jerk. And it

1:36:53

was a lot of patting each other on the back. And

1:36:56

in that hour, there

1:36:59

was probably five

1:37:02

minutes of real content. And the

1:37:04

rest was all just BS. That's

1:37:06

what drives me nuts with these shows, man, because you know,

1:37:09

that's why you don't hear me BS a lot

1:37:11

in the beginning. Like I get right to the encounter

1:37:14

because, I mean, I could sit there and BS with

1:37:16

the rest of them, but do people

1:37:18

really wanna sit and hear me talk for 10,

1:37:20

15, 20 minutes before I actually

1:37:22

get to the show? No, no one wants to sit there

1:37:24

and listen to that. I'm not that interesting. See,

1:37:27

and that's the thing. I mean, like people, I just

1:37:30

think it's probably a lot with podcasting

1:37:32

and podcast is there's a lot of

1:37:35

lack of thought process going into your

1:37:37

show. It's not just

1:37:39

turning on microphones and recording. It's

1:37:41

literally, it's like I spend all week

1:37:43

thinking about Saturday show, you know, not every

1:37:46

moment of every day, but every day, at

1:37:48

least every day, I'm thinking about at some

1:37:50

point what I can do to make

1:37:52

the show better or what I'm gonna be doing that week. And

1:37:54

I told you this before, like right

1:37:58

from the beginning, when I started this show, show,

1:38:00

I pursued it like it's a job.

1:38:02

That's what I did. I worked 60 hours

1:38:05

a week. I come home. I would go up

1:38:07

in my office and I'd be working on my

1:38:09

show. Even if I didn't have a direct plan

1:38:11

as to what I was going to do that

1:38:13

night, I still came upstairs, sat in front of

1:38:15

the computer and started pushing buttons until I found

1:38:17

something to do with the show. It's just putting

1:38:20

yourself in that environment to be creative. You're not

1:38:22

going to find your creative juices if you're not

1:38:24

actually putting yourself in a situation to be creative.

1:38:26

I actually heard Joe Rogan say that recently. He

1:38:28

said when they're writing their

1:38:30

jokes and everything, it doesn't just

1:38:32

come to them. Sometimes it does. But he

1:38:34

said a lot of times, you have to

1:38:36

force yourself to go sit down and just

1:38:38

start writing. You have to

1:38:40

write through all the BS in order to

1:38:43

find five lines that are good. A lot

1:38:45

of people think that Joe Rogan

1:38:47

and people like that or even us, we can

1:38:49

just sit down and go,

1:38:51

you have to work at this craft in

1:38:54

order to make it better. Not

1:38:56

everybody's Michael Jordan where it's just natural. I'll

1:39:00

tell you about the time I met Joe Rogan too in Vegas.

1:39:02

You met Joe Rogan? Yeah.

1:39:04

Dude, man, seriously. Before

1:39:07

I get to that, you're right. That's

1:39:09

the way you need to look at

1:39:11

it with podcasting. That's

1:39:13

why you have a quality show, man. It

1:39:16

took me years to ramp up to a

1:39:18

halfway decent show. It didn't just

1:39:20

happen. But I think

1:39:22

your curve as far as creating a quality

1:39:25

show, your

1:39:28

learning curve, there was almost

1:39:30

no learning curve. You had the sound

1:39:32

quality down, you had the creativity down, you had

1:39:35

the intros down, your outros down.

1:39:38

Andy, I think you're a better

1:39:40

interviewer than I am. What? I

1:39:42

know it's not like a circle jerk, but I think you're a

1:39:44

better interviewer than I am. You

1:39:46

have all these qualities, man. I'm telling you,

1:39:49

the Confessionals is going to... It

1:39:51

already has taken off, but I think you're going to

1:39:53

see every year you look back and

1:39:55

you're like, wow, I really accomplished that. I'm on

1:39:58

almost 400 shows, but it's... realistically,

1:40:01

it's probably more like 440. And

1:40:05

half of those shows are terrible. They're

1:40:08

absolutely terrible, man. But

1:40:11

yeah, I mean, just keep it up. You're doing a good job,

1:40:13

man. It's, I mean, there's very few

1:40:16

podcasts I can sit and listen to. I

1:40:19

just told you about the one I sat and listened

1:40:21

to. And I listened to them probably once every month

1:40:23

or two. And they did

1:40:26

an okay job. It's just, they don't have

1:40:28

the audio quality. They spend too much time BSing.

1:40:31

There's no content. There's, so I

1:40:33

guess maybe they don't do a good job, but. Can

1:40:37

they get an A or B for effort? I

1:40:41

get my D for effort. Oh geez, well, there's a

1:40:44

problem. Stamp that up to a B and you're good.

1:40:46

Yeah, but I mean, who cares what I think? No,

1:40:49

but I mean, there's a lot of shows like that

1:40:51

where I just can't listen to them. And then there's

1:40:53

other quality shows that you listen to and you're like,

1:40:55

wow, that guy's really on top of it. This

1:40:57

is an enjoyable experience to listen to the show.

1:41:00

I think if you go with that mindset, you can really

1:41:02

create something. Yeah, yeah.

1:41:04

I just, I don't know. I approach

1:41:07

things in a very, I guess,

1:41:09

matter of fact, realistic way, like

1:41:12

if something's not good, I'm

1:41:14

probably the first one pointing it out. Like I just,

1:41:16

for me, I mean, like as far as my stuff,

1:41:19

like I just, I want

1:41:21

to be real, you know? And in

1:41:23

order to do that, you gotta be truthful with yourself. So

1:41:27

that's what I do. I mean, I appreciate that, man. I

1:41:30

didn't expect to hear you say that, but it

1:41:32

means a lot. It's

1:41:37

a process. And I can't tell you, like there's been times

1:41:39

over the last year, because I mean, I see the

1:41:41

show growing, but you know, I always say

1:41:43

that I told you this way back,

1:41:46

like, and I mean this, like

1:41:48

I work with a macro vision, but

1:41:50

with micro efforts. Like I work every

1:41:52

day, like tomorrow, like success is going

1:41:54

to happen tomorrow, but I know

1:41:56

it's not going to happen tomorrow. So I had

1:41:59

this long-term vision. play and

1:42:01

sometimes I look at the

1:42:03

stats on blog talk and you can see the graph. You know

1:42:05

what I'm talking about, the graph that kind of shows your show

1:42:07

going up and there's maybe like two

1:42:09

or three months. I think it was during the

1:42:12

summertime like June, July, August where it was just

1:42:14

kind of like really plateauing and I

1:42:16

was like, is this where it's going to wrap

1:42:18

up at? And

1:42:23

I honestly thought that maybe it was going to be a

1:42:25

one year show. I really did. At that

1:42:27

point I was thinking, well, maybe I can squeak out a year and

1:42:29

stuff and maybe it will die off and that's okay. Because I told

1:42:31

you before, I mean, I'm fine with whatever.

1:42:33

I mean, if I'm a truck driver for the next 30 years

1:42:35

of my life and podcasting is as good as it gets kind

1:42:37

of thing, I'm good with that. It's

1:42:40

not a bad life that I have right now. I

1:42:42

think you have the right mindset. I hear a lot of

1:42:45

these guys getting into it and they want to create membership

1:42:47

sites and they want to make money and they

1:42:49

want to do that. If you're in it

1:42:51

just for the money, you'll never make it. If

1:42:55

your mindset is I'm in

1:42:57

this to make a buck, you'll never make it. You

1:43:00

have to have the passion. You have to

1:43:02

have that effort and work

1:43:05

on creating something really cool. Eventually

1:43:07

the money will come. But if your mindset is

1:43:09

nothing more than the money, if that's what your ultimate goal

1:43:11

is, you'll never cut it. And

1:43:14

I'll tell you the other thing too, man, for the amount

1:43:16

of abuse I've taken in the big foot world, money ain't

1:43:18

worth it. People are delusional if they

1:43:20

think the money is worth it. I

1:43:22

can go work somewhere else and

1:43:24

not be abused like I've been abused. I

1:43:27

don't know, it's not like a pussy or

1:43:29

a victim. And

1:43:33

actually make a

1:43:35

decent living and not have to

1:43:37

put up with everyone's nonsense. So

1:43:40

it's a big disappointment if you're in it

1:43:42

just to make money because the money

1:43:44

at the end of the day isn't worth it. You

1:43:47

know what I mean? Absolutely. I

1:43:49

totally get it. The grass

1:43:51

is always greener on the other side. Absolutely.

1:43:54

And you find out it's not. Once you get there,

1:43:56

you find out it's not. It's

1:44:03

crazy. I know I gotta take my son

1:44:05

to His

1:44:09

guitar listen, okay enough that none of

1:44:11

my head out cool. Yeah, I'll

1:44:14

tell you the Joe Rogan story real quick The

1:44:17

Joe Rogan story is I

1:44:20

met him. It was very brief This

1:44:24

was when he was doing I think he was doing fear

1:44:26

factor. I think this is even

1:44:28

before the UFC And

1:44:31

he was drunk Joe

1:44:34

Rogan is actually a pretty small guy. Oh really?

1:44:38

Yeah, he's actually a really small guy. He's only like He's

1:44:41

shorter than Woody. I think the guy

1:44:43

is only like five eight hmm

1:44:47

And but he's not a real big guy and he was a