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Music.

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I'm Liz Hersh Naftali, and welcome to Capital Coffee Connection.

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What we are going to be talking about is the heart and the humanity of our leaders in our country.

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We are not going to talk about politics or policy.

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We are really going to focus on who they are as people, where they come from,

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and what makes them tick. Because I think that at this point, we have really to focus on what brings us

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together versus what is making us feel a part.

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And one of the things that I've been fascinated by lately is the idea of the

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human genome, where 99.6% of 8 billion people on this planet are the same.

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What separates us is only 0.4%. And if you think about it, what is that 0.4%

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that makes all of us different? And how can we actually celebrate that 0.4% and bring us together and actually

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learn from each other and do it in a form that makes us better than actually pulls us apart?

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So that is really the purpose of this podcast.

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Mike Levin, who is a congressperson from California's 49th district.

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I know spends a lot of time in Washington, D.C., but what I know about him is

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that he makes sure that every weekend he gets home to San Juan Capistrano to

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be with his wife, Chrissy, and his two big children.

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I met them the first time when they were little kids, but I've watched them

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grow, and now they're pretty big kids, but I understand that it's really important.

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So I want to welcome you with a cup of coffee. Thank you, Liz.

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And we both have cappuccinos with oat milk.

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And when did you start drinking oat milk? The secret's revealed.

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The secret's revealed. When did you start drinking oat milk? Probably five, six years ago.

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Yeah. Yeah. How long ago since you've had actual cow milk?

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Probably when I finished my son's cereal the other day.

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Okay. So you haven't quite gone off. No, no, no. But I try. I try.

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I'm like a failing vegetarian, right?

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Failing. My plant score is hopefully getting better. We call those people kind of picatarians.

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Picatarians. Yeah. Flexitarians. Flexitarians. All good words.

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Exactly. Well, thank you and welcome. And so today we're not going to talk about politics and policy.

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People can look that up, but I really want people to get to know who you are.

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I know you as a very kind, thoughtful person. Thank you.

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And also somebody that really cares about everything that you put your heart into.

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So we're going to back up and I really want to hear a little bit about what

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it was like to grow up in Orange County and what it was like to go to school

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there and a little bit about your family life growing up.

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So I actually spent the first eight years of my life in Long Beach.

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And then in 1986, my parents decided to move to Orange County, South Orange County.

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Back then it was El Toro, right by the Marine Base. Now it's Lake Forest today.

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And that was for my mom to be closer to her sister, my aunt.

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And it was great. Growing up there was great. I went to local public schools,

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Saddleback Valley Unified Schools. And it really was a wonderful place to grow up. when I was in eighth grade,

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my dad decided to take a job in Santa Monica. And so we wound up moving back.

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Both my parents are from LA originally. So we moved back to West LA and went to Loyola High School.

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And it was a big culture shock for me because I had been at an all,

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you know, big public school, 1500 people per class, like big school for junior high school.

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And then I wound up going to an all boys Jesuit Catholic college.

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High school, and it was a wonderful experience. And I give all the credit in

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the world to the Jesuits. And having the last name Levin in a Catholic school was interesting.

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But I was raised with a Catholic mom and a Jewish dad, which just makes me an

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open-minded person, I guess. But then I married a Presbyterian wife, so we go to an Episcopal church.

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So if you can figure it out, you let me know. I think that's modern families.

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I think that is part of modern families. That's right. That's right.

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Now, tell me a little, because I understand that you have You have grandparents

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or grandmother that came from Mexico. Yeah. And you had a grandfather that served in World War II.

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Yep. Tell me how that fits into who you are today. Oh, it's huge.

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I think we're all a product of our experiences and our family history and legacy

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is so important, how it shapes us and what we think about the world and what

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we think about policy and everything else.

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And so on the one side, my mom's parents actually came from Mexico.

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My grandpa was 12 years old. My grandma was five years old. They went through

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El Paso, Texas, grandpa from Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico, grandma from Durango.

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And when they got to the United States, they really didn't have any money.

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They didn't speak English. They didn't have any formal education or anything like that.

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They just worked incredibly hard. And my grandpa pretty much sold whatever he

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could get his hands on. So they made their way West.

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Ultimately met my grandma, married my grandma. They went to Arizona,

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lived in Arizona for a time. They made their way to LA.

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And my grandpa became a distributor for Wurlitzer jukeboxes. Wow.

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This is back. Wait, can you tell people what jukeboxes are? Because people out

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there might be going, what's a jukebox? My kids hardly even know what a Wurlitzer jukebox is.

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But through a very fortuitous meeting, he wound up as the Western distributor

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for Wurlitzer. And he grew that business with his two brothers,

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all, you know, from Mexico, immigrants from Mexico.

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And he started investing in real estate on the side and ultimately was able

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to do really well and sent all five of his daughters, including my mom, to college.

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All five of the daughters, despite the fact that he hadn't gone and even graduated high school.

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So I think he'd be pretty amazed that his youngest grandson is now in the U.S.

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House of Representatives. And on the other side of the family, my grandfather, Eastern European descent,

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born in Chicago And wound up serving in World War II, fighting tyranny, fascism, Nazi Germany.

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And what always struck me about my grandpa's story is that here he was,

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he was a tail gunner in World War II, and he came back from the war.

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And as so many people did, he wanted to start a small business,

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first in Chicago, and then they moved to sunnier Los Angeles in around, I think, 1948. 1848.

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And when they started the business in LA, they had called it,

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it was an interior business, so carpet, drapery, upholstery, things like that.

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They called it Levin Interiors and didn't think much of it.

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But even in Los Angeles in the late 40s, early 50s, anti-Semitism was very prevalent.

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And so they found they couldn't really operate a business with the name Levin in the business.

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So my grandpa had to come up with something and they changed the name to Dean

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Interiors. after James Dean, even though my grandpa looked nothing like James

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Dean at all. Sounded good. But it's an interesting, we talk about how things haven't changed sometimes.

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Yeah. And it's a good reminder that there were difficult times in the past and

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not that long ago. Not that long ago in our backyard.

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And the fact that he had served in the war and couldn't use his own name in

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business after serving our country never sat well with me, still doesn't sit well Well with me.

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But he was tremendous advocate for public service.

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And that was really where I got my initial instinct of trying to serve something

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greater than your own self-interest was from him. That's nice.

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And did he give you words of advice? What was his, what about, he obviously was a good model.

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Yeah. But did he have certain things that he would say that meant something to you till this day?

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Well, he talked a lot about the importance of service, the importance of,

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you know, standing up for our military and also the need to acknowledge those

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who protest in freedom of speech, freedom of expression.

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And I remember before he passed away, it was right around the time of the Iraq war. So he died in 2005.

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So I remember seeing Code Pink,

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if you remember the protesters and asking him what he thought of that.

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And his response to me was, I fought so that people could be protesting.

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For that freedom, for the ability to have a voice. Exactly right.

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So he was really well ahead of his time.

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And I think he understood that.

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Why we have freedom in this country is not necessarily so we can all believe

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the exact same thing or support the same ideology, but rather so we can have

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that freedom, that independence of thought. He was a committed Democrat, make no mistake, but he taught me a lot.

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And I know he'd be very proud to see what wound up happening after he'd passed away.

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Unfortunately, he wasn't able to see my running or my serving or anything like that. I hope so.

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I hope so. I hope so. But my mom, who's a great artist.

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So my mom became a really outstanding artist, went to Art Center College of

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Design, became the first female toy designer at Mattel Toys,

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was hired by the Handlers who started Mattel.

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And so she worked there many, many years. When she retired, she started to paint.

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And so one of the first things she painted for me in my office is this great

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painting of my grandpa in his full, you know, get up with his,

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he looked like Cary Grant, kind of. Beautiful. And he's, you know, my grandpa's over my shoulder all the time,

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literally when I'm in DC in our office and just meant a tremendous amount. I love that.

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Backing up a second, what was your first job? Oh my goodness.

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Well, my dad was a hospital administrator. So when I was really young,

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I wound up as a medical records gopher or organizer.

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When there were papers, when people had filing papers. Exactly,

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exactly, filing papers. My first political job was in 1999 and in 2000.

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So the Democratic National Convention was in LA.

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And I was up in the Bay Area going to school at that time.

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And a congresswoman named Ellen Tauscher needed a driver.

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And this is back. Thank God this is back before Uber and Lyft existed,

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otherwise I wouldn't have gotten a gig. But all the way back then, I was paid a thousand bucks, which was real, that was good money.

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Over what period of time? For a week to drive Congressman Tauscher around LA.

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And that's what I did that week. It was just an eye-opening,

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wonderful- Greatest opportunity, huh? And unbelievable, unbelievable.

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And I got to shadow Ellen everywhere that she went. She was so incredibly kind to me to let me do that.

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And so I got to see kind of through her eyes what a democratic convention looked like.

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And between that and my experience in student government, I was just hooked.

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And so I knew I wanted to be involved in democratic politics.

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And, you know, Ellen passed away a couple of years ago, but she got to see me

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at least run and win and was a huge supporter of our initial campaign.

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Listen, I think that's the part of this, which is the legacy lives on and people

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plant seeds and they don't necessarily get to see the tree grow,

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but they know that it will provide shade and oxygen for the next generations.

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And that's what really truly great leaders, no matter what field,

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offer to the next generations. Talk about the next generation. Yep. So I said this in the beginning,

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you got to fly a lot. I bet you have a lot of miles.

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And I bet they really like you on some of these airlines.

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How, what is, what is your choice? Because when you decided that you were going

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to be working in DC, you knew that your family was staying in Southern California

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and you made a choice that you wanted to be home.

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So give us a little brief idea of like where you are in terms of like your thought

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of the importance of family, the importance of being there on the weekends with

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Chrissy and the kids, and maybe tell us a little bit about what you do on the weekends.

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So when I decided to explore running, to seriously explore running,

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one of the real important things was that my wife, who is spectacular,

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she's absolutely amazing and has a great professional career and is the primary

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breadwinner in our family. So when I started talking about this, it was very important that I wasn't going

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to do anything that was going to jeopardize or derail her professional career.

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And she works in real estate and finance. And so it was very clear that her

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moving to DC was simply not an option. Should we win?

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And so I knew we wanted to keep the kids in Southern California.

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And so, you know, a lot of us do this. A lot of my California colleagues do this.

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And actually, Pete Aguilar gave me great advice about what to do on these flights

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because you've got about 10 hours a week.

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So basically, a third of the time, catch up on email, all the different emails that you get.

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A third of the time, read something that you otherwise don't have time to read.

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It could be a book. It could be some sort of white paper, whatever you don't

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have time to read otherwise. And then a third of the time, veg out. Either watch a movie or go to sleep.

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That's great advice. By the way, for anybody that has to travel that much,

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because you need to have a little bit of time for yourself downtime.

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The phone doesn't ring and you need to find out how you can regenerate and re-nourish.

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I don't mind that, by the way. So the actual physical flying isn't the problem.

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It's being away from Chrissy and our kids. Our kids are now 11 and 9.

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And I know these are some of the most formative years of their life.

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And it breaks my heart that I can't be there all the time for them.

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And my parents were very much there for me all the time.

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Right. And I think that was a great contributor to, you know,

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whatever success I've been able to enjoy was the fact that they were there.

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Also, I was an only child and I always knew, and I try to instill the same in my kids.

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I knew that my mom believed in me to be able to achieve anything.

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When I was elected to the House of Representatives, my parents were incredibly

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proud of me, but they will tell you that they weren't particularly surprised that it happened.

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They necessarily didn't expect it to happen at that time in 2018,

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but maybe someday something like that.

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And you just never know. I think life is all about...

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It's opportunities, presenting themselves, but being prepared.

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So preparation plus opportunity, little luck thrown in.

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Little luck. And that's usually how success comes about.

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And so what do you do with the kids? And are they involved in sports?

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And I'm assuming that you're involved with them, whatever, and driving them

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to and from because that's your time to be together. They are in so many activities, Liz.

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When I was in grade school and when I had the summer, my summer activity was

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my mom would open the front door and say, okay, go play and we'll see you later.

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Yeah, be home at six, dinner. Exactly. That was mine. Exactly.

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And now we have a spreadsheet with all their camps and activities and all these different things.

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I think most people in America can relate no matter what party,

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where they live. Again. The spreadsheet. And by the way, I love that both parents are doing the work. Yeah.

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And I just want to go back and just say one thing. Like the fact that you honor

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your wife and her career and understanding how important it is,

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is really something that means a lot to me.

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Because I have seen over the time where more and more men really do respect

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their women's roles, their wives' roles and the women's role. And it's a partnership.

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And I think that is one of the secrets to a successful relationship where both

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sides respect each other's needs, but they come together to be able to build

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this family. It's the single most important thing to me.

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And I went to Washington very cognizant of the fact that Congress has a way

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of dividing marriages, of not being very kind to marriages.

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And so I was very adamant that that not be the case for me. And we just celebrated

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our 12th wedding anniversary, but she's the love of my life and puts up with this crazy schedule.

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So I'm gone roughly half the time and, you know, in DC about 130 days of the

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year and then doing other things, whether it's a congressional delegation here

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or there, or, or, you know, the fundraising aspect of it, we're gone a lot.

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Right. But you make up with the quality of the time. Yeah. Yeah.

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So every member is a little different about this, but what works for us is every

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Saturday I give to the campaign or to the official side to do whatever events

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there are that need to be done. Every Sunday, however, off limits. That's our time as a family.

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So when you talked about the 5.30 dinner that resonated with me,

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getting the kids to the dinner table and everybody around the dinner table at

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5.30, not easy, not easy, but you got to try.

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But wonderful when you get there. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

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What is the hardest part about being a parent?

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Oh my goodness. Well, our son is now 11 and I see the teenage years in the near future and,

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having a, a role, a responsibility where I have a, you know,

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on the one hand, I have a team of people and pretty much we're on the same page

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with, in the sense that, you know, I have objectives,

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I have requests of them and they usually will do what I asked them to do.

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And when I get home, I can't get my 11 year old to eat his broccoli or,

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you know, make his bed or anything. thing. And so that dichotomy is challenging. I was recently talking to our commanding

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general for Camp Pendleton. So this is a Marine, this is a general.

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And so he's in charge. Tough guy. Very tough guy and a wonderful guy.

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But when he tells his Marines what they need to do, they just go do it.

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And then he goes home and he has teenage kids, they don't do what he says.

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I think a lot of people can relate to that. It's that dichotomy that I think is most challenging.

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And the good news though, is that the kids are wonderful kids.

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They get along with each other as well. Maybe 90% of the time,

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maybe 10% they're, you know, at each other's throats over whatever.

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But I'm also very, very blessed that my parents are still in good health.

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And during the pandemic, we were able to spend a whole lot more time with them.

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And that is really stuck. Yeah, that's great. And so do, what is the sport, what is the favorite sport of your family?

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Well, my son, I would say our family is probably baseball. But my son is obsessed

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with Stephen Curry and also with Mike Trout.

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And so those are his two favorites.

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And so he wants to be in the NBA and Major League Baseball.

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And I tell him that's probably going to be tough. Yeah, but it's also a good dream when you're 11.

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Oh, totally. And it's something to work for. It's a beautiful dream.

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But he's in so many camps, baseball camp, basketball camp.

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He loves it. Yeah. And your daughter, what is her passion?

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Her big thing is dance right now, dance and gymnastics.

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And she's watching all these very competitive competitions and so forth,

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and she's doing the moves. So she's only nine, but my wife was very much into musical theater and dance and all of that.

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And so she's very into it too. I love it. it. But she also loves coming to a

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baseball game with us or going to a basketball game or watching her brother, whatever it may be.

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And they're both so much more talented than I was at their age.

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So they're both playing- Well, that's what we want. Totally. They're both playing multiple musical instruments, doing all these different things.

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They're in a Spanish immersion program at our local, the Capstone Unified School

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District has this wonderful dual language immersion.

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So their Spanish is better at grades five and three than And mine was when I

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was studying Spanish in college with a native grandmother and a fluent mother speaking to me.

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Their Spanish is better. Well, we always want the next generation to be better.

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Oh, absolutely. And stronger and more talented because that's the sign of like

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actually good parenting. So anyways, okay, now I'm going to switch because I want to like give people

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an opportunity to get just to know a few fun facts about Mike Levin.

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Favorite meal? Oh, geez.

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Gosh, I got to go with either pizza or something healthy.

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If health is no issue, I could go pizza.

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Pizza but if health is an issue then we've

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got a lot of great options in southern california you

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ever you ever have sweet green i like sweet green so that's healthy

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it's very healthy it's great so if health is one of my favorites if

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if i want to live then i'm going to go for vegetables sweet

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green is okay but what if you want to clog your arteries what are you gonna

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eat pizza it's gonna be pizza okay yeah i hate to admit it okay and if you had

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a day off and literally a day off with nobody just where mike levin could do

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something what would you pick to be that day's activity i'd I'd go to the beach

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near my house and catch up on reading books that I haven't had time to read. That's great.

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Favorite hobby if you had time? I'm sure you have a little time. Oh, man.

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You know, I would try with the time I have to get much better at playing baseball.

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So I used to play baseball as a kid. Right. And now we have the congressional baseball game.

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And I don't like- I heard you lost, by the way. I don't like losing at anything.

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I heard you guys lost. We got our butts kicked. For the third straight year, we lost the game.

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But who did you lose to? I just want to be clear. The Republicans. Okay.

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Just want to make that clear that this is really about like that you guys are,

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but I love that because it says that even though we always hear all the bad

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stuff, that you're out there still doing good stuff together and having fun. No, this is a great game.

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And we had 26,000 people at the game in Nationals Park in DC. We raised money.

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2 million bucks was raised for about 40 charities in DC.

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I love it. It's a great game. All that being said, I don't like to lose at anything.

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So if I had time, I would get with a coach and be a better baseball player. I hear you. I hear you.

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Okay. Now we're going to switch to this little game, the game Kiss, Marry, Kill.

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I change it to Kiss, Marry, Trash because I don't believe in killing.

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Good. So I'm going to just give you a few. We'll have fun with it. And if you have any comments as you're doing it.

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I hope my wife is going to be okay with this. I hope my wife will be okay with

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this. It should be fine. I've kept this PG. Okay. Okay, if you need to relax, Netflix, rate these, Netflix, reading, meditating.

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If I need to relax, I would say reading, number one. Okay, so you would marry

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reading? I would marry reading. Would you kiss? I would kiss Netflix.

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And it's not because I'm anti-meditation. It's because I don't have the patience.

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I would just be- I got you. Bored. Okay.

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Okay, let's do this one. This is an easy one. Breakfast, lunch, or dinner.

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How do you rate those? I'm a big lunch guy. So you'd marry lunch? I'd marry lunch.

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I would, ooh, that's tough. I need all three.

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I know some people are into this intermittent fasting stuff.

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I need my three meals. Okay. So if I had to skip one, I would skip breakfast.

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So you could trash breakfast, but you would really still kiss dinner. Yeah. Okay.

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But preferably- You'd like them all. I like them all. Okay. Well,

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that really doesn't work with the game, but I appreciate that.

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Okay. Season, summer, spring, and winter. Ooh. I'd say spring number one,

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summer number two. I'd marry spring.

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I would kill or I would- Trash. Trash winter. Yeah. And in DC,

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it gets way too cold during the winter. Yeah. Yeah.

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Okay. Movies, comedy, romantic, or thriller?

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My favorite type of movie is documentary. So that's not on your list.

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Oh, no. Okay. I have a personal goal to try to watch every documentary Ken Burns

22:56

ever made. Yeah. And a lot of the others too.

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But on those three, I would say comedy would be, I would marry comedy.

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Got to have some humor in your life. And then horror and drama. Drama?

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Horror, romantic, and thriller. Well, if my wife were having anything to do

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with it, she'd want me watching some romantic stuff.

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Yeah. So I'd have to- Kiss that. Kiss that, and I'd have to do away with the thrillers.

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Okay. And it's probably true anyway. Yeah.

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It's a good one. Okay. This is a really challenging one. Types of pasta.

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Fusilli, because in my family, there's a lot of argument over which pastas are

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the best. Yeah. So your three are fusilli, penne, spaghetti.

23:34

Penne, I would marry penne. Wow, okay. Because I love penne.

23:37

Okay. Good pesto sauce, whatever. Yeah. Spaghetti, I'd have to, you know, have on the menu too.

23:43

Okay. So you kiss that one. And I would have to- Trash. I'd have to say goodbye to Fusilli. Okay.

23:48

Now that makes good sense. Is that okay? Those are all really good answers.

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Yeah. And in my family, the penne wins except for I'm a spaghetti person,

23:55

but my kids are penne people. Hey, if it's pasta, it's good with me. As long as it's got a good sauce.

23:59

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Okay, now, I was looking at this quote, and I wanted to read it for you,

24:06

and I think of you as this kind of person. I think you're a very kind person.

24:09

That's what I've always gotten from you. I try, I try. Yeah, and listen.

24:14

This was an Abraham Lincoln quote. It said, kindness is the only service that

24:19

will stand the storm of life and not wash out.

24:23

It will wear well and will be remembered long after the prism of politeness

24:27

or the complexion of courtesy has faded away.

24:32

And what do you think of that? I mean, that kindness, like that is.

24:35

I think a lot. Because I think we miss a lot of that in this world right now.

24:39

So we are in a very difficult time, obviously, with regard to polarization and

24:45

division in the country.

24:47

And I think a lot about the responsibility that I have, the responsibility that

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every person in a public role has to try to be a source of bringing people together whenever possible.

25:00

And to demonstrate some kindness is really important in that regard.

25:04

I think far too many of my colleagues use the position and see it as a means

25:11

to their own ends, which typically aren't in line with their constituents.

25:17

They might want a career, you know, might want to be the next Newsmax host or

25:22

OAN host or Fox News host, something like that.

25:25

And as a result, also the easy way out is to use that influence,

25:31

that microphone to gin up resentment or fear or outright hatred for people who

25:39

are different and or who have different experiences or different values.

25:44

And on the other hand, I think a lot more responsible way to go about this is

25:50

to use whatever microphones we all have to try to not just tolerate others,

25:56

but to appreciate those differences. To be kind.

25:58

To be kind. Yeah. And also to your earlier point about how similar we really all are.

26:05

Yeah. I think that it would help a lot of people to get to know folks outside their comfort zone.

26:11

And that's what the purpose of this is, you know? Perfect.

26:14

And I think that far too often as public officials, we are just talking to those

26:22

who think like us, those who vote like we do. And I think that's a huge mistake.

26:27

Particularly in a district like mine, it's a very competitive district.

26:30

I don't have the luxury to only speak to Democrats all the time.

26:35

You just need to speak to your neighbors. You need to speak to your community.

26:37

I need to speak to my neighbors and recognize that representative is a description, not just a title of a job.

26:46

So if you really want to be a representative, you better get out there and you

26:48

better talk to people who are not voting for you. And represent everybody.

26:52

Exactly. I always remind myself that the district has around 760,000 people.

26:56

I only got 200,000 votes. Yeah, but you represent all 760,000. Exactly.

27:02

Who is your greatest cheerleader? later. My mom.

27:05

Yeah, for sure. No, she has always been there for me and has just been extraordinary to me.

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And my hope is that I can give back some of that to my kids.

27:15

My dad's always been there too. My mom has always been my number one fan. I love that. I love that.

27:20

What brings you joy? And what brings you joy?

27:25

And what do you feel about joy as a word and as a verb, as a life, as it is?

27:32

Because I think that the more we as individuals are joyful, then we spread joy to others.

27:38

And it's like a wave. It starts out as a small current and builds into a wave.

27:44

And it goes back a little bit to the question on kindness, but I really think that we can spread joy.

27:51

And if we do, it's a gift to others. And it's not always easy in politics,

27:56

but putting politics aside, and I'm not putting politics aside,

28:00

putting politics to the side, what gives you joy?

28:03

And what do you think joy represents in our world these days?

28:07

Well, I think it's different for different people, right?

28:10

So what works for me isn't necessarily going to work for you,

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or as I have to remind myself, it won't work for my son or my daughter or my wife.

28:19

But what for me brings me the greatest happiness or contentment is the feeling,

28:26

and John Wooden, the great basketball coach from UCLA, had the definition of success.

28:31

Success, the knowledge, and I'm going to butcher the paraphrasing here,

28:35

but basically the knowledge, the self-awareness that you're doing the best that

28:37

you're capable of doing. Right. And it's that moment of understanding that you gave it your all. Right.

28:44

And that as a result of your contribution that you did something beyond just yourself.

28:50

Right. And so for me, when I know genuinely that we have done something,

28:54

whether it's professionally or otherwise, to try to help somebody or to try

28:58

to lift somebody up or to make a positive of contribution.

29:01

And I feel that we've succeeded in that.

29:05

That brings me great satisfaction. That's why this job that I have now for all

29:09

of its problems, for all of its challenges, for being gone half the time,

29:12

for having to spend all the time doing all the crazy stuff that we do,

29:15

putting up with all the personal attacks that we all have to put up with.

29:19

Knowing that there's going to be a ton of people that aren't going to like you,

29:22

that don't know you. And maybe if they got to know you, they'd like you better,

29:26

but they're just not going to like you. And, you know, just because of an R or D next to your name.

29:31

So you put up with all that because you know that at the end of the day,

29:35

you actually can make a positive change.

29:38

And I've been at it now for about five years and I've seen the work that our office can do.

29:44

Not just the legislation, although that's important, but the day-to-day impact

29:48

that we can make on the lives of our constituents in a positive way with this

29:53

amazing group of people who are all committed to doing something greater than themselves.

29:58

And so for me, that brings me great joy. The other thing is that occasional

30:02

time when I see that my son or daughter picked up on something I may have said,

30:07

and they're embracing that, when they demonstrate kindness to one another.

30:13

Like for example, my son and daughter went to the mall the other day and my

30:17

son actually took his own money and bought a gift for my daughter.

30:21

And that is not necessarily the norm for my son to do that.

30:26

And when that happened, I just felt this overwhelming sense of,

30:30

you know what, maybe it's all going to work out after all.

30:33

Just the fact that my kids have a big heart and that they're hopefully emulating

30:38

the best, mostly of my wife, but hopefully a little bit of I mean,

30:41

that gives me great satisfaction, great joy as well. That's a beautiful answer.

30:44

So we're going to end there because that's the most perfect ending,

30:47

which is the family and the joy.

30:50

And really, I can see from your smile the joy of being a father and a husband.

30:54

And I want to thank you very much. And I want to thank everybody for listening.

30:59

Hi, it's Liz. Please join me every for coffee to talk about heart and humanity

31:05

with our elected leaders. Ciao.