0:10

THE BUGEL Audio newspaper for a

0:12

visual world Hello,

0:14

buglers, and welcome to issue 4,300 of The

0:17

Bugle, the World's leading and still only

0:22

Audio Newspaper for a Visual World.

0:24

I'm Andy Zoltzman, ramming this

0:27

metaphorical megaship of a podcast into

0:29

the nearest available iceberg for the

0:31

300th time since we re-floated it

0:33

back in October 2016. 300

0:37

bugles since relaunch, all told, I think

0:39

we're now heading towards 400 hours of content over

0:43

the entire history of The Bugle, so we just need to do that

0:45

another 24 times and we'll

0:47

hit the crucial 10,000 hours mark

0:49

and that's when it will start getting good. Today

0:52

is the 19th of April, 2024, I'm

0:55

here in the shed of uncontrollable veracity

0:57

in South London, the city where the

0:59

streets are famously paved with gold, according

1:01

to the story of the famous 14th

1:03

century cat fetishist London Mayor Dick Whittington,

1:06

or at least according to the Daily Terre Wellf, they

1:08

were paved with gold until Labour Mayor Sadiq Khan took

1:11

over as London Mayor and replaced all

1:13

the gold with supposedly carbon neutral ethical

1:15

paving slabs made up of the mulched

1:17

up dreams of true Britannians. And

1:19

if you don't think the streets of London were at

1:21

one point paved with gold, you're unpatriotic and you're rewriting

1:24

history, so I hope you're all proud of yourselves. Still

1:26

coming for that telegraph column, they'll come for me one

1:28

day. Now this is issue 4,300, as I said 300

1:30

episodes since this podcast came back from the dead. Bit

1:36

of a Jewish trend, that we can't really help

1:38

it as God's chosen people, but anyway, joining me,

1:40

the man who was there at the very re-beginning

1:42

back in October 2016 when this world

1:44

was a simpler place, Donald Trump had never been president,

1:46

he was just having a bit of a laugh and

1:49

a jape with his prank election campaign. Russia

1:51

had invaded Ukraine a couple of years previously, but the world

1:53

wasn't too worried because the Football World Cup was due to

1:55

be held in Russia in 2018, and the power of sport

1:58

would surely cure Vladimir Putin. Putin of

2:00

himself and usher in the new

2:02

age of Russian political gentility calm

2:04

openness and the hardline non-illegal invasionism.

2:07

Hasn't entirely worked out quite

2:09

like that but yes, joining me

2:11

once again as he

2:13

did in the first relaunched bugle,

2:15

Hari Condobolo. Hello Hari. Welcome

2:19

back. You're about to say how are you? I was

2:21

about to say how are you and then you're working with him when I say how

2:23

are you. I hate when you say how are you. I'm

2:28

glad you didn't but the unfortunate thing is I

2:30

expect you to say how are you and always

2:32

prepare something to say when you say how are

2:34

you. So now I'm cut for love.

2:38

It's been 300 episodes

2:40

and all those things happened

2:42

after the bugle relaunched. All

2:46

that stuff, all this terrible stuff has happened since

2:48

you came back. That's

2:51

interesting, Andy. Well, it's a burden I have to live

2:53

with, Hari. Or

2:56

you could stop the podcast, Andy, is the other

2:58

thing. That's what I was hinting

3:00

at for the good of the world. I'm

3:04

doing okay. I have a bit of a

3:06

cough that really only

3:09

gets set off when I start laughing

3:11

so I should be good for the

3:13

podcast. Thank you very much. That's two

3:15

pretty big zings you've gotten before I've

3:18

even introduced your co-host. Boom! For

3:20

today. Boom! So

3:23

joining us for the very first time

3:25

on the bugle in a symbolic metaphor for the eternal

3:27

cycle of life. That's

3:30

quite a lot for him to live up to. Do you burp into

3:32

the bugle womb? Is that how birth works?

3:34

I forget. No, it's the other way around with

3:36

births. It's been a while since I quit my

3:38

midwifery career. Anyway, it's a great pleasure

3:40

to welcome voice bugle debut, the wonderful

3:43

Aarhe Shah. Hello, Aarhe. Hello. Thank

3:45

you very much, Andy. And what a delightfully Hindu

3:47

entry that was. Yeah,

3:51

very exciting to be part of this cycle

3:53

of... And who knows, perhaps this could

3:55

finally be the podcast in which I

3:57

attain mochs and stuff after. After

4:00

this episode I will be no more because I will have

4:02

ascended to Iran. So yes,

4:04

it's my great pleasure to be here

4:06

with Hari, Hari who I've

4:08

known for many, many years. And

4:10

between us we represent basically two of

4:12

the main choices that Indian families made

4:14

between about 1960 and 1980. That's

4:21

very funny. So

4:23

you guys, you were just telling me before we

4:26

started recording, you shared a flat in Edinburgh

4:29

in 2011. Yes,

4:31

yes. I hear it was

4:33

a fetus at the time. He

4:38

was still in the womb yet somehow finishing

4:40

up at Cambridge and I was a 28,

4:43

29 year old comic

4:46

hungry, excited for the

4:49

future, thinking there was a career

4:51

for me in the UK and

4:53

beyond. And no,

4:59

no not so much. Yes, so I mean you've

5:01

done, are you going to Edinburgh this year? I'm

5:04

going back to the fringe, I'm going to

5:06

do a fortnight of the show that I

5:08

did last year. Well that sounds

5:10

like quite a long show but you're just the everything down version of

5:12

it. Yeah, yeah, no it's like

5:14

one of those Mark Watson things that takes absolutely ages. Has

5:18

anyone ever made money at that festival?

5:21

My understanding is how

5:23

your system in the UK works is

5:25

that you spend two weeks to a

5:27

month in Edinburgh and you lose all

5:29

your money and you owe your management company

5:31

all the money for putting up the show

5:33

and then you spend a good chunk of

5:35

the year paying them back and

5:38

it seems like it only works because you

5:40

have good social services that allow you to

5:42

survive. Well I

5:44

mean that's a charmingly nostalgic view of the

5:46

site and pretty social services to be honest.

5:49

The Edinburgh Festival brought to you by the N.A.C.S. Well

5:54

You know it's good for creativity

5:57

and most great figures from the

5:59

creative arts through history. Ah web,

6:01

it was stung into action. Boy

6:03

needing to earn money So my

6:05

boss, that's the way the Edinburgh

6:07

Festival works. Kelly's to make most

6:09

people hungry. Never thought I'd really

6:12

do love watching a bunch of

6:14

half finished hours of comedy. says

6:16

should have probably taken a year

6:18

or two more. To. Be polished

6:20

and perfect but right? of course the

6:22

drive for having a new our every

6:25

year is so important. And

6:27

then making the full hour of comedy

6:29

brilliant if the not recording it and

6:32

sharing it with the World Series therefore

6:34

no one has ever really seen the

6:36

other than a few people in your

6:38

country via it's a brilliant strategy. I

6:41

disagree. Strategy Black I I'm

6:43

feeling really intensely patriotic. up

6:46

on of the he's. Just

6:49

leave you leave all festival alone.

6:53

Is it does that You get you. You visit once.

6:55

I didn't want to, I lived with. A.

7:00

Small. My Britain it's I would suspect up

7:02

a New York system of from to do the same

7:04

seven minutes for twenty five years. And

7:07

they are better at y y times

7:09

as divisor as well as the must

7:12

be some middle ground as grandmother grumps.

7:15

We're gonna start our own festival in an

7:17

island in the middle of the Atlantic where

7:19

we find the perfect little grab a. com

7:27

we are recording on the nineteenth of april

7:29

on this day and fifteen twenty nine the

7:32

protestant reformation was launched and will arrive for

7:34

my son that wasn't the all time classic

7:36

with my for me was that loans at

7:38

a star studded press conference and complementary lunch

7:40

with i inspire in germany as a people

7:43

protested against the red job zone to martin

7:45

luther mosey no one knows exactly what went

7:47

on because so the reformation with me on

7:49

the phone i don't think two guys at

7:52

my age but it was some is already

7:54

summer a diet of worms on second run

7:56

saying that it led quite quickly to the

7:58

legalization of of spaghetti across the Christian world.

8:00

I'm interesting that Taylor Swift should have released

8:03

her surprise new album today to coincide

8:05

with the anniversary of the start of

8:07

the Reformation. I mean what

8:10

I don't know what we can read into that

8:12

but I mean people do tend to overanalyze Taylor

8:14

Swift songs and I imagine there's if you play

8:16

it backwards there's a load of stuff about Martin

8:18

Luther hidden within. On

8:21

this day in 1775, 249 years ago as we speak, the referee blew the whistle to

8:25

start the American War of Independence aka

8:28

the American Revolutionary War aka

8:31

Stropi George and the Cranky Yankees get

8:33

their grump on and also known as

8:35

the biggest mistake in American history brackets

8:37

until quite recently. So

8:39

249 years on Hari, I

8:41

mean the regrets are piling up surely

8:44

I mean it's really I know

8:46

it's quite early in a kind of geological

8:48

terms to judge these things but

8:50

it doesn't I mean it's it's been a disaster

8:52

isn't it? Why are you

8:54

asking a leading question? You

8:58

know the answer. What is the purpose of

9:00

this exercise? It's failed.

9:03

It has failed. It

9:05

has failed. Is that what you want

9:07

to hear? This is a failed experiment.

9:09

It did not work out right? But

9:11

to be fair human beings are a

9:14

failed experiment. Nothing wrong

9:16

with the dinosaurs. They were what they

9:18

did not cause their own demise. They

9:20

were just chilling and some

9:23

bad luck. Who knows what whether it's

9:25

God or asteroids or whatever it was

9:27

and now we're here all right? This

9:29

has been a failed experiment. I

9:32

think we're on the same page there. Intro to the

9:34

249th anniversary of the American War of Independence, the origin

9:36

of the

9:40

term wishy-washy came back because

9:42

George Washington bought a magic lamp from an antique shop

9:45

and rubbed it and a genie came out and gave him

9:47

three wishes and he just came up with some vague stuff

9:49

about people being able to say whatever they wanted. Some

9:51

mumbling about bearing arms and militias and

9:53

something about not chopping soldiers into quarters.

9:55

Hence wishy-washy and amendments one, two and

9:57

three of the US Constitution. before

10:00

you there. I don't know why

10:02

whenever I hear you start a

10:04

fact my brain assumes it's going

10:07

to be true. All right. All

10:09

right. And he's going to

10:11

like every single time. I've known him for years.

10:13

Every single time I'm like, oh, Andy's about to

10:15

say a true thing. Doesn't

10:18

happen. That never happens. It does

10:20

happen. The key, there's

10:22

two categories, really. If it's

10:25

something with cricket, it will turn into

10:27

a fact. But I've got

10:29

a reputation to guard here and

10:31

half a career. As

10:34

always, a section of the bugle is going straight in the

10:36

bin this week. We have a more big questions of modern

10:38

life as we help you

10:41

navigate your way through this, the complexities

10:43

of existence, including this week, we ask,

10:45

can vegans eat fossils? How

10:47

can you tell if a molecule that was once in

10:49

Stalin's penis is now part of your pet? Why

10:52

can't we all learn to get along? Are puffins

10:54

fake? Why is it illegal to play golf in

10:56

a cathedral? Whatever happened

10:58

to Frapston, Kretherick, who? That

11:01

section is in the bin.

11:08

Top story this week, Donald

11:10

Trump is on trial. Well,

11:12

just a quick refresher

11:15

for those of you who've forgotten how this story

11:17

all started. Well, as I said, in the 1770s,

11:19

America for some reason thought it could be trusted

11:21

with itself. One thing led to another, and it

11:23

ended up voting in a self proclaimed sex pest

11:25

as president. And hence, we are where we

11:27

are, Hari. I mean,

11:29

you are right there as

11:32

our official Donald Trump's legal

11:34

affairs correspondent in New York.

11:37

Just I mean, the city

11:39

must have been, you know, they've been, they've been on

11:41

being played on big screens in in

11:43

Times Square. They're sort of huge parties where

11:46

everyone's gathering to watch the death

11:49

of American hope and democracy.

11:51

And can we start with something lighter like Iran

11:54

and Israel? Because

11:56

with Iran and Israel, there's a there's hope

11:58

there. All right.? The really that

12:01

there is an Ai because with

12:03

the end of the pain will

12:05

stop. Okay so ah I see

12:07

hoping that feel ah no no

12:09

we're not. We're not watching this

12:11

on a big screens. I don't

12:13

think you understand this and we're

12:15

all trying to forget Raiders. Yep

12:17

he's from here yet we does

12:19

this apply Every time we see

12:21

him it's a reminder of we

12:23

could have stopped this all long

12:25

time ago. Always is less. This

12:27

is a fun side show and

12:29

we just have the doing it

12:31

over. Let let's watch where this

12:33

goes. Married again has a fair.

12:35

Our another loss of he's bankrupt

12:38

has a T V should allow.

12:40

This is entertaining week cause this

12:42

we don't like thinking about. It's.

12:45

So. Far we've had the with a

12:47

selection of the jury which is rather

12:49

complicated process or him was that the

12:51

phone two people who tend to have

12:53

an opinion on Donald Trump. Now I'm

12:56

going to scour the entire universe. And

12:58

the best you could possibly hope

13:00

for is twelve. recently small said

13:03

goldfish would be the. Closest.

13:05

You can get. Into a slight

13:07

disaster sort. Of if you're trying

13:09

to construct a jury duties have to hope

13:11

that there's been a really fortunate like claiming

13:14

with a full board of coma patients as

13:16

it's all sort of went down and came

13:18

up with exactly the same time other the

13:20

biggest and it does for me as one

13:22

of those things with. No. Not

13:25

having any sort of opinion is in

13:27

and of itself sort of like. It's.

13:29

Not a neutral thing to be

13:31

entirely unaware of with was guy

13:33

got to be fair. I do

13:35

really like admired the people who

13:37

were able to like a half

13:39

the people's right away like start

13:41

rounds out what very absolutely zero

13:43

why I'm gonna be able to

13:45

be impartial about the as like

13:47

fair enough Ah right, because let's

13:49

be honest, big on that jury

13:51

would be exciting but a great

13:53

probably deleted you getting lots of

13:55

deference. I.

13:57

me this troubling saying about

14:00

everyone leaving, you know, like having an

14:02

opinion and then being dismissed, is that

14:04

I'm sure almost all of them are

14:06

liberal, right? Because liberals emote. When they

14:09

talk about that they get angry, they

14:11

let it, they don't play it close

14:13

to the vest. Conservatives play

14:15

it close to the vest, right?

14:17

Like conservatives in New York

14:19

City particularly, they keep it close, like I

14:21

had no idea anyone I knew voted

14:24

for Trump until after he won the

14:26

election and all of a sudden their

14:28

social media is suspiciously quiet, right? And

14:30

at that point you're like, gotcha, you

14:32

know what I mean? And

14:35

that's how he'll get acquitted because they keep it

14:37

close to the vest, they shut up, they don't

14:39

let people see, oh I hate Trump, no, they

14:41

shut up, they vote for him and he wins.

14:44

So in that case, do

14:46

you regret having spoken about him previously sort

14:48

of on stage, on podcasts, on social media

14:50

and everything, because you could have been in

14:53

that jury otherwise? Oh no, because look at

14:55

where it's taken me. Look

14:59

at where talking about him has taken me. You

15:04

know, the jury, there's, first

15:06

of all, the fact they found 12 is shocking

15:10

to me and makes me suspect

15:12

some things and here's just a review of

15:14

one of the jurors because they listed some

15:16

of the characteristics of some of

15:18

the jurors. One juror watches

15:20

MSNBC and Fox News

15:23

and has no opinion of Donald Trump.

15:26

Clearly, this is a

15:28

bot, they are putting bots on

15:30

the jury. Like this

15:32

is where it's come, another one

15:35

said that

15:37

she appreciated the fact that he

15:40

speaks his mind. Watch,

15:43

stand up if you feel that way, that

15:45

is not, men

15:48

just, you know, and then

15:50

there was one juror, this is a perfect

15:53

juror, all right, this is actually the kind

15:55

of juror we need. He said,

15:57

I find him fascinating.

16:00

walks into a room and he

16:02

sets people off one way or another

16:04

and I find that really interesting. Really,

16:07

this one guy could do all

16:09

this. See, that's a perfect juror

16:12

because if you can't figure out

16:14

why and you don't

16:16

follow the news, clearly you have no

16:18

stake in anything. Right?

16:21

That's perfect. That's like watching

16:23

sports and never has a

16:25

team, never roots. Just

16:27

watches. Imagine him

16:29

saying, I find it interesting

16:31

how a person hits the

16:33

ball and everyone chases the

16:36

ball. How could one ball

16:38

do all this? Absolutely. But

16:40

there's not going to be 12 of

16:43

those. Yeah. I think that

16:45

the sort of ideal jury is evidently

16:47

comprised of, does anyone remember that Futurama

16:49

episode where they went to war with

16:51

the neutral planet? It was

16:53

like your neutralness is a beige alert if I

16:55

die, tell my wife, tell her.

16:57

It's that person that you need 12 times.

17:00

Or maybe like, you know, the person who

17:02

says, oh, I watch MSNBC and

17:05

Fox News and everything. All this person

17:07

was aware of back in when

17:09

Donald Trump first announced that he was

17:11

going to be running for president. This

17:14

person was a New Yorker, right? And they

17:16

were like, from this moment, this

17:18

guy might win. And if he does

17:20

win, eventually the mother of all court

17:23

cases is going to land in a

17:25

New York City courtroom. And I will

17:27

do everything within my power to live

17:29

my life as the perfect jury member

17:31

so that when the time comes, I

17:34

will be there because that is my

17:36

greatest ambition. So therefore, like spending exactly

17:38

equal amounts of time watching like, oh,

17:40

it's time to watch Rachel Maddow for

17:42

half an hour and then switch over

17:45

to Sean Hannity for exactly the same

17:47

amount of time. Like, no one can possibly

17:50

it just feels

17:52

like someone who watches that much

17:55

news and doesn't have an opinion

17:57

is someone who probably can't make a decision.

18:00

And is that what you want

18:02

on a jury? Yeah, I

18:05

mean it is a problem. So he's facing 34 felony

18:08

charges of falsifying

18:10

business records, dealing

18:13

with hash money payments made to, I think

18:15

I read it as an Australian

18:18

actress, from New South Wales, NSFW

18:22

actress, as Tommy

18:24

Daniels, allegedly to cover

18:26

up a sexual relationship that Daniels claimed she had

18:28

with Trump and vice versa back in 2006. So

18:31

hash money paid to a pornographic film star

18:33

and former striper. Did I spell that right?

18:36

But anyway. Can I just check,

18:38

sorry, very quickly with Harry?

18:41

Because obviously lots of international listeners and everything,

18:43

you've got a different legal system in the

18:45

United States to the one that we have

18:47

in Britain and everything. So these sorts of things can

18:50

be a bit confusing, certainly, for me. And

18:52

so all I would ask is, so

18:54

when you have 34 felony

18:56

counts, would you describe

18:58

that as a greater than ideal number?

19:01

Well, I think... What's

19:05

a good number to have? Higher

19:07

numbers is better because

19:09

usually, because the

19:11

more felonies you get, I mean,

19:14

in this case with Trump, the more felonies, the bigger

19:16

the chance will get him on something, right? So

19:19

they usually pull this with poor people,

19:21

right? Like they'll let you,

19:23

they basically give you everything and then say,

19:25

okay, we'll let you off with manslaughter,

19:28

even though I wasn't even there at the

19:30

time. But you take the manslaughter. So the

19:32

idea that they might pull this with Trump

19:35

is very exciting. Just throw everything at him

19:37

and then something. So we want as many

19:39

felony counts as possible. One of the charges

19:41

involves basically this hush money,

19:44

allegedly paid to, allegedly, Daniels,

19:47

being classified as a business expense.

19:49

Now I can't see how they're

19:51

going to get him on it because

19:53

to me, hush money paid to

19:55

a pornographic actress

19:59

for Donald Trump. Trump, that is a

20:01

legitimate business expense. He's

20:04

all about his brand and

20:07

surely that counts as just investing in

20:09

his brand. That is building up the

20:11

picture of who he is that his

20:13

entire business is based

20:15

on. So I see that as entirely legitimate

20:17

to be honest. Do you know a

20:19

question wasn't asked to the jury that

20:21

I think was a mistake. I think they should have

20:24

asked the jury if anyone

20:26

in the jury was familiar with her

20:28

work. Because I feel like that

20:31

was completely ignored. Yeah. Like you

20:34

could have had super fans there.

20:38

You don't know. Or I mean you want

20:40

somebody objective. Like it would have been nice

20:42

for someone to say, I love to performance

20:44

in A Vice and Men and The Grapes

20:46

of Anal, but it will not impact my

20:49

judgment in any way. It

20:51

would have been nice to hear that. The

20:54

Grapes of Anal is not. What?

20:59

Am I? I'm really failing to see

21:01

the pun. Oh

21:03

no no no no. I went

21:05

with the over the top not pun. You

21:08

had two Steinbeck's and right okay. I

21:11

was just like, well I suppose that

21:13

Americans don't pronounce it Roth. So maybe

21:15

that still doesn't sound like. A

21:18

Vice and Men was originally of mice and

21:20

anal. So I

21:24

at least tried on that one. The

21:27

question that I thought that was

21:29

asked to the jury, that I found a bit odd,

21:31

was when they were trying to ascertain whether

21:33

people could sort

21:35

of wrap their head around the

21:38

idea that one person may not

21:40

have directly done something, but still

21:42

be responsible for it. And the

21:45

analogy that was provided was like,

21:47

for instance, would you say if

21:50

a man hired a hitman to kill

21:52

his wife, and the hitman killed his

21:54

wife, then even though the man wasn't

21:56

there, he was still responsible, would you

21:58

agree with that statement? and thereby

22:01

leading to the possibility that someone might

22:03

be like, no, that's exclusively on the

22:05

hitman? Or like, no, that guy just

22:07

clearly wasn't there. Yeah,

22:12

I mean, what do words mean? You know, it's all right. I

22:16

mean, I think Trump's strategy has

22:19

been brilliant, because he's already laid the

22:21

foundation of an appeal if he's found

22:23

guilty, because, you

22:25

know, he can't say anything in court, but as soon as

22:28

he's out of court, he keeps referring to the judge as

22:30

a Trump-hating judge, over

22:33

and over again, which is

22:35

an interesting strategy, because now

22:37

the judge probably hates him,

22:39

because he keeps saying he's

22:41

a Trump-hating judge, which forces

22:43

the appeal. That's brilliant. And

22:45

he's unquestionably a genius,

22:48

of course. One of the finest legal minds of

22:50

our time, clearly. And

22:53

a magician. I mean, every time,

22:55

like, each of these counts, whenever

22:57

on each of these trials, it's

22:59

like, okay, so you swap, you're

23:01

underwater, you have 30 seconds,

23:03

all right, and now you're putting a shark

23:06

in the water. How is he gonna get

23:08

out of this one? Well,

23:16

the biggest logistical storm news

23:18

now, and the

23:20

world's biggest democratic logistical

23:22

challenge is

23:24

beginning pretty much as we speak.

23:26

India is voting in a

23:28

general election, a nation with almost

23:31

a billion voters voting

23:33

over the course of six weeks. It

23:35

involves 15 million election staff,

23:37

more than a million polling stations,

23:40

over two and a half thousand

23:42

political parties. That is a logistical,

23:44

I mean, I sometimes struggle making

23:47

a bagel at lunchtime, and when I

23:49

say making a bagel, I have the

23:52

bagel, I mean, putting a

23:54

bagel, I have the bagel. I'm not making a

23:56

bagel from scratch, I'm just putting things in the

23:58

bagel and then eating it. and

24:00

that often pushes me to the

24:02

absolute limit of my logistical capabilities. So

24:04

for India to do an election with

24:07

a billion voters and two

24:09

and a half thousand political parties, well

24:11

it has my eternal respect.

24:13

It also involves electronic voting

24:16

machines being carried on elephants,

24:19

which is a frankly delightful detail to

24:21

get to some of the more remote

24:23

mountainous parts of the

24:25

country. Now I've tried over the years to

24:28

understand Indian politics. Particularly

24:30

whilst working on the bugle, work

24:32

at working, is that the right word? And it's tricky as

24:34

an outsider, but I think without wishing to blow my own

24:36

Sousa phone too much, I think I've achieved a

24:39

level of expertise on Indian politics that I never thought

24:41

was possible. And I would say it's about the same

24:43

level of expertise as our next

24:45

door neighbour's pet tortoise Timmy has about

24:47

particle physics. But I am pleased even

24:49

to have achieved that, because it is

24:52

completely and utterly baffling. I

24:55

think that for anyone who maybe

24:57

doesn't know anything about Indian politics, the best way

24:59

that I would describe it is like, you know

25:01

the sentences that Andy says

25:04

that take ages and end up

25:06

in some sort of baffling thing.

25:08

Indian politics is that, but all

25:10

of the sentences are factually correct.

25:14

I'm taking some heavy enemy fire today. It's

25:18

the same sentences, they're just not made up. It's

25:21

all right. Andy going, yeah and then of course

25:23

a man named Stalin, whose father, who was also

25:25

called Stalin, who was also the chief of the... and

25:27

you're like, yeah, yeah, all of that, yeah, check that out. Wait,

25:31

so the Indian system is just

25:33

the British parliamentary system, isn't it? Is there anything

25:35

different about it? Well,

25:37

I mean, looking at it, there seems

25:39

to be an awful lot of political meddling. There's

25:42

some pretty dodgy funding issues going on. There seems

25:44

to be a lot of

25:46

corruption. There's an increasing gulf across India

25:48

between rich and poor, a lot of

25:50

cronyism in the political system. So yeah,

25:52

I think it is pretty much the

25:54

exact system that we bequeath to India

25:58

as a valedictory gift. I

26:01

think that there's more sort of like,

26:04

as Addy was saying, with the sheer

26:06

multiplicity of political parties over the

26:09

spectrum that get in these like

26:11

really large coalitions. Whereas

26:13

in the UK system, it's

26:16

much smaller. So people

26:18

who would naturally have been in other

26:20

parties just all stick in one together

26:23

and are all called the same thing and

26:25

all hate each other. It

26:29

works tremendously well for us. Yeah. So

26:31

for example, we have a party called the Conservative Party

26:34

that is about 300 different political parties.

26:37

Yes, and it doesn't so much

26:39

conserve as destroy absolutely everything in

26:41

its path. So

26:45

one of the big concerns with Narendra

26:47

Modi seemingly set to win the third

26:49

consecutive election for the

26:51

BJP, Hindu Nationalist Party, is the

26:53

danger to the secularism that is

26:56

enshrined in the Indian constitution.

26:59

I think secularism in general is

27:02

having a bit of a wobbly moment around the world. I'm

27:04

a big fan of

27:06

secularism because history does somewhat

27:09

suggest that religion and

27:11

other non-God based fundamentalisms equally

27:14

in public and political life does have a bit of a

27:16

tendency to end up with, well, an

27:18

epic scale of human devastation. And I'm not

27:20

a massive fan of that. To me, religion

27:23

being entwined with the state or with politics

27:25

in general, that makes as much sense as

27:27

deciding whether a defendant is guilty or innocent

27:29

in the court case based on what football

27:32

team they support or as a person who's

27:34

wielding the operating theatre deciding whether they receive

27:36

no anaesthetic, a proper medical

27:38

anaesthetic or an anaesthetic using a heavy based

27:40

frying pan based on who their favourite James

27:42

Bond actor is. I'm not

27:44

saying you shouldn't have opinions on these things or

27:47

be able to do whatever you want in private,

27:49

but I just think they should be, they should

27:51

be, they've separated. And India, for a long time,

27:53

it was quite incredible how well

27:56

it functioned as this Secular

27:58

State. With

28:00

the of such a diverse population

28:02

of and and such a huge

28:05

area. I'm trying to follow this

28:07

election. but the fact that. Modi.

28:10

Is. Likely. That

28:12

likely Modi is going to win is

28:14

is very frustrating that this point I'm

28:16

in the whole thing is easy going

28:19

is get four hundred raise his the

28:21

Bjp, the nuggets four hundred seats is

28:23

not whether they are ways whether felt

28:25

when by record amounts and it's like.

28:28

It's. It's the way I feel about novak joke

28:30

of it's in I mean as. As.

28:33

Like he's I know he's gonna

28:35

when I know he's setting records

28:37

every time. I just can't stand

28:39

them at it as he has

28:41

group Adidas hills it for me.

28:43

I don't enjoy the result. Really

28:47

know what's going to happen? So

28:49

by see the message of this podcast is

28:51

we need Roger Federer as Prime Minister of

28:53

India so that that of the world. More.

28:56

The message relevance of Novak Djokovic. but I

28:58

guess at this is a lawyer look at

29:00

it. As

29:02

who have full world exclusive coverage

29:04

of the Indian election over the

29:07

weeks, months and years. but it

29:09

says that it's gonna take. Place

29:15

for us is box

29:17

news. I'm. It. As. Someone

29:20

who was Prime minister for

29:22

less than the lifespan of

29:24

a moderately unsuccessful insect at

29:26

least Ross's having a remarkably

29:29

persistent of the life as

29:31

he has produced a book

29:33

entitled Ten Years To Save

29:35

the West of and. Who.

29:38

Syncing see the reaction to this book because. But.

29:40

It was outside the Daily

29:42

Telegraph newspaper. Of the universal

29:45

reaction seems have been that

29:47

it is a mad and

29:49

be seats. Which

29:53

actually might be he's a way

29:56

to sell shit loads of copies

29:58

of or that know. Are

30:00

all your I know that some in

30:02

Nz as before you came on the

30:04

beauty of your toss to fathom. typical.

30:06

The first ever upset abuse in two

30:08

thousand and seven I said this is

30:10

this Rising policies as conservative policies and

30:12

Co. Liz Truss are always keep an

30:14

honor of yellow produces a book having

30:16

been Prime Minister and then we can

30:18

come on the sun. Talk about the

30:20

kidneys Hey I yeah and I was

30:22

like here a year and how did

30:24

you get into my skin? Ah as

30:26

a. Other

30:30

averted this is guess is quite quite

30:33

or and on the interviews that have

30:35

gone with it up as well. I

30:37

mean it does make make you can

30:39

look back on. With. A ton

30:41

of his puzzled. I haven't even to

30:43

be even more flabbergasted. in retrospect ats

30:46

the fact of list was becoming prime

30:48

minister and what then happened over the

30:50

footprints the full of the weeks or

30:53

city about this the other day when

30:55

I was hit out of course I

30:57

like lots of people ember and have

31:00

been sort of. And not

31:02

to readings are both but obsessive li

31:04

reading everything about the Bethesda I conceivably

31:06

heard on Ladder the Borders and it's

31:08

a key factor at A because it's

31:11

just a staggering amount of funds are

31:13

doing so are probably my favorite thing.

31:15

or the I read it was from

31:17

the Estes Alpha Veils He writes Trust

31:20

likes to say that her focuses on

31:22

growth. It's not a super controversial ambition,

31:24

unfortunately. Our approach? what the a bit

31:27

like this. Imagine a bunch of people

31:29

are stuck in a warm, stuffy run

31:31

together. Everyone wants the windows to be

31:33

as and but they are false and shot by

31:35

complicated lox. While people try and work out how

31:38

the lox operate, one of them list attempts to

31:40

throw a tear through the wind up the tab.

31:42

Ounces often hits or in the face. Of

31:45

that's. A very very good

31:47

description of a rough spots I was

31:49

thinking and like. Less it's

31:51

obviously. I. Live in this country.

31:54

I'm not glad that she was private as our can

31:56

be. Suffering the consequences of having prime minister from very

31:58

long time is by bad thing to happen. How

32:00

it all I will say. Is

32:02

that? when I think

32:04

about the prospect of having

32:07

children one day. But and

32:09

one of the things that

32:11

people say to their children

32:13

is you can be whatever

32:15

you want to be right

32:17

and you as a parent

32:20

know sadly do is not

32:22

true. Matter. Like at,

32:24

there are things for a

32:26

variety of reasons why. It

32:28

is very, very unlikely that.

32:31

You'll. Kid he loves Lansing. And

32:34

copy of I however like my can't

32:36

remember cannot be a dolphin. You.

32:38

Have. No

32:42

with that attitude. But

32:45

the sort of really taking the

32:47

time to like to sit alone

32:50

and reflect on the nature of

32:52

the trust premiership started to make

32:54

me think that. Maybe.

32:58

You can tell a kid like is

33:00

seated. Be Prime minister. Maybe.

33:02

He's genuinely can be anything at

33:04

all. I'm like. Let's

33:07

because it it makes no sense that

33:09

she was allowed to be by visit

33:11

but by God she was. She got

33:14

his second wife about Seattle's I bet

33:16

that was nice to you can second

33:18

away from that. It was very most

33:20

I think my cell. of

33:23

some and I look at it from as

33:25

a as the I have to to nice

33:27

of move on the side of the perspective

33:30

of nausea that the recent politics has been

33:32

quite useful. Tool is apparent when my

33:34

kids are going to school exams and

33:36

ready he to buckle down and work

33:38

hard at school. otherwise you might end

33:40

up. With no choice but to

33:43

go into top level politics and focuses

33:45

the minds of children to realising that

33:47

size a trap for they could fall

33:49

into as I don't said a knuckle

33:51

down and on and of know that

33:53

you don't realize that's as soon as

33:55

well as a sense of a one

33:57

of the other extraordinary a com he

33:59

passes. Oh, and when the queen

34:01

died. Just days

34:04

into this trust his time as Prime

34:06

minister. Second her reaction was why is

34:08

this happening to me which I sipped

34:11

point as self centered way of looking

34:13

at looking at looking at images of

34:15

really way as and summer Because

34:17

it is some as if the eve

34:20

of the queen or dogs or perhaps

34:22

in cahoots with just waiting for list

34:24

trust to become Prime Mason sanger each

34:27

other right? Let's ignore the national anthem

34:29

Now we're. Gonna do it now. Yes,

34:31

I think that of all of the

34:34

charges that you could level Atlas trust

34:36

lacking a main character energy was not

34:38

one of my. His

34:43

and like yeah to see

34:45

made about ah when the

34:47

actual main character of Britain.exists

34:50

for Americans as is a

34:52

little confusing. Just to

34:54

see British idiocy Years? I

34:56

mean, just because she's. She's

35:00

only been a complete village is doubling

35:02

down that she was right. And

35:04

you're watching it And. You hear

35:06

her voice and as American who doesn't

35:08

have a discerning year she sounds smart

35:10

because she has said accents you have

35:12

right? Yeah and and it confuses has

35:14

you know what she's saying is is

35:17

not good and a hybrid for do

35:19

not but do not think that sort

35:21

of like is something. Like. That

35:23

so they're happens right? and a

35:25

day goes to badly. everything so

35:27

far. Hartford Closet clotting. Who was

35:29

that? The even Labadee was like

35:31

thirty eight days or something as

35:33

it's like you saw of. End

35:36

up with no option other than

35:38

doubling down to the As on

35:41

an individual basis because like, how

35:43

could you not love to admit

35:45

that? It was. but like you

35:47

know, If we. Get

35:50

as the three of us having as or at

35:52

if we make a mistake of is a like

35:54

that is bad as better your if we make

35:56

about by the is is not a good thing

35:58

we could do is grab whatever. We

36:01

can't make a mistake on that scale. As

36:04

an individual human being, you're not really prepped for

36:06

making a mistake on that scale. And

36:08

so your only choice really is to

36:10

double down. Well, it's the only choice

36:13

isn't it, to keep quiet? You

36:15

know, Blair didn't kind of talk about

36:18

his missteps for quite some time, right?

36:20

It's not like right after he was

36:22

out, he's like, my bad, you know,

36:25

like I'm assuming he kind of

36:27

like, let me stay out of the spotlight for a

36:29

while while this thing dies down. You know what I mean?

36:31

Like she probably could have disappeared for a while.

36:34

Yeah, I do think that is

36:36

definitely an option. What

36:40

element of the main character energy that we

36:42

were discussing earlier led you to believe that

36:44

breaking the way into the sunset is going

36:46

to be? There's

36:49

a book to promote. Release

36:56

update now. Oh,

36:59

oh, moving on now to other

37:01

world news. That's

37:04

all that was all I could manage to that. I'm

37:07

sure it'll be fine. I'm sure it will all be fine. In

37:11

other world news, well, exciting news coming

37:13

from Japan, that apparently by the

37:15

year 2531, everyone

37:18

in Japan will have the same name. This

37:20

is according to a professor, no less, who

37:23

has studied names

37:25

in Japan and a law

37:28

requiring spouses to have the same

37:30

surname could result in everyone being called

37:32

Sato within just 507 years. That's

37:38

not very long. If you go back 507 years

37:41

from where we are now backwards, well,

37:43

that's the year 1517. That's

37:46

barely the blink of an eye. I mean,

37:48

really, you think the world has barely changed

37:51

since then. Henry VIII was king. In fact,

37:53

if you've done similar research then and extrapolated

37:56

from contemporary trends, you would have probably thought

37:58

that by the year 2024, everyone would

38:00

have big red beards stretching at least 50

38:02

metres and be wearing cod pieces the size

38:05

of a hammerhead shark. But it hasn't turned

38:07

out like that for the most part. But

38:09

you know in 1517 Then

38:12

what were things so different? I mean

38:14

in here in London. There was apparently

38:16

a xenophobic riot protesting against immigration The

38:19

the leader of Russia was annexing places and

38:21

the Middle East was having a bit of

38:23

trouble. So 517

38:26

years 517 years might seem like a long time, but

38:28

it goes it goes so fast. It goes so fast

38:30

these days I mean human beings This

38:35

this professor assumes that we're gonna be around

38:37

for 500 more years That's

38:41

the first thing that's very bizarre also,

38:43

why are you worried about a bureaucratic

38:45

issue essentially 500 years from now? Also,

38:49

if you are correct that everyone's named

38:51

Sato It's because all the robots are

38:53

named Sato and the robots will be

38:56

controlling the show. It's a Sato robot

38:58

Of course, their name Sato. Yeah.

39:01

Yeah, I love this Professor

39:04

so Hiroshi Yoshida and he said

39:06

that Well, it's all

39:08

based on the fact that the proportion of

39:10

people in Japan with the name Sato increased

39:13

one point zero zero eight three times

39:15

between 2022 and 2023 so

39:19

there was an assumption of a

39:22

continuation of that rate that occurred

39:24

over one year for the

39:27

next five centuries and

39:29

there being no change in the law

39:31

based on currently like you have to Change

39:34

your name to your spouse's name and most of

39:36

the time it's women changing her name To

39:39

man's name and 95% of

39:42

the time and I really like that

39:44

I think that more studies should be

39:46

done where it's just like right Assuming

39:48

a succession of things that definitely won't

39:51

happen This

39:54

is locked on. Our

40:00

Japanese birth rates as well because ah

40:02

yes, I'd like have any three language

40:04

delayed. Said that as

40:06

like yeah, of course everyone will be in

40:08

a plaza. The One. Southern.

40:13

Pacific, Others and as you say that equally

40:15

some professors you can sign of and they

40:18

with and oh yeah know this must be

40:20

right spots Ah it's a very specific year

40:22

Twenty Five Thirty One athletes If this does

40:24

happen on know that a notice it because

40:27

if we continue on the current for your

40:29

cyclical been. Ashes salon so I'll have

40:31

I'll be but busy with with with

40:33

stuff. But also, Britain

40:36

by Twenty Five Thirty one Nothing ever will

40:38

have a son named Johnson buffered slightly different

40:40

reasons at that. Nothing has. Changed

40:46

nine years now and wallace

40:48

Tough time for the machete

40:51

north of house music Strokes.

40:55

Lyrical Ballads industry because of

40:57

music that is not between

40:59

eighty and one hundred and

41:01

sixteen beats per minute is

41:03

being banned by government order

41:06

of because is apparently unpatriotic

41:08

music. It is not or

41:10

according does not conform to

41:12

church and mentality. a musical

41:14

rhythm. A Cold Things Food

41:16

The government services many syncing Eighty Two

41:19

Hundred and sixteen Base Nine Hundred and

41:21

sixteen Beats per Minute That includes the

41:23

some Get Lucky by Daft Punk featuring

41:25

Pharrell Williams and Family. Have you ever

41:28

seen the Right by Creedence Clearwater Revival.

41:30

Eighty Beats per Minute That Me in

41:32

the Devil Blues by Robert Johnson. Eighty

41:34

one beats per minute. I want to

41:36

know what love is the classic girl

41:39

power ballads so those are okay but

41:41

either but either a the size of

41:43

those. i mean

41:45

a taste of honey by have

41:47

alpha in the tissue on t

41:49

warner bros that's gone that's gone

41:51

for chechnya smooth criminal by michael

41:53

jackson gonna hundred and seven same

41:55

base for minute as a of

41:57

smells like teen spirit of murder

42:00

the dance floor. I mean it's these are dark times

42:02

for a... You sound like a musical

42:05

auctioneer. Gone!

42:07

And 170 metres an inch! Yeah.

42:11

And I know that Andy this is difficult

42:13

for you because you had quite a promising

42:15

career in Chechen dubstep. I did. And that's...

42:17

I said this is going to be... I

42:21

liked this because it's one of

42:23

those stories that begins like, are

42:25

you going... Like when

42:27

a sentence starts it's like which

42:29

side of the political spectrum is this

42:32

falling on? Because it's just a... Like

42:34

the culture minister began by saying

42:37

borrowing musical culture from other peoples

42:39

is inadmissible and it's like, right,

42:41

is this hyper nationalist right wing

42:44

or is this extremely I must

42:46

shy away from anything even remotely

42:48

considered cultural appropriation left wing? It's

42:53

like very two unlikely friends shaking

42:56

hands. I mean all I

42:58

can interpret from all this is it's

43:00

terrible news for the Chechen blues scene

43:03

and it's hard to see how

43:05

it can recover. Just worth noting

43:07

that at 105 beats per

43:09

minute the bugle theme tune could

43:13

be the new Chechen national

43:15

anthem. Well that brings

43:17

us to the end of this week's bugle. Thank

43:19

you very much for listening to this and well

43:22

indeed the last 300 episodes

43:24

assuming that you've been listening since Hari was first on

43:27

this show. I delight

43:29

as always to have you on Hari. Do you have

43:31

anything to plug? I do.

43:34

I'll be touring again in May and

43:36

June. May 23rd in Jersey City, New

43:39

Jersey at White Eagle Hall, Beverly

43:41

Massachusetts at Off Cabot

43:44

Comedy on May 25th,

43:46

Portland, Maine May 26th, Empire

43:49

Comedy Club, Bottle

43:51

Rocket Social Hall in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

43:53

June 20th, Bugle

43:56

Stronghold Dayton, Kentucky. June

44:00

Twenty First The Dude Twenty seconds.

44:02

It is a at the Commonwealth

44:04

Sanctuary that in Cincinnati areas and

44:06

finally Cleveland, Ohio. June Twenty third

44:08

add celebrities are pleased some of

44:10

the shows because the money will

44:12

be used for a shelter and

44:14

food for me and my child.

44:18

Of your Edinburgh showers though, that. Oh

44:23

hey what we fight you you blogger you

44:25

be plugs your forthcoming a number so early

44:28

in the south. A pleasure to say. Think

44:30

of the emphasis you can read.

44:32

plug that unplug anything else yet.

44:34

So my name is Ah here.

44:37

shot my book. Ten years to

44:39

save the West out of pocket.

44:41

Ah, that's. Available

44:43

to looks ups know I will

44:45

be performing at the the Countless

44:47

Comedy Festival and Mack and Wales

44:50

of the You Helices on Sunday

44:52

the fifth of Mates For American

44:54

listeners I'll be at the Dentist,

44:56

A Typewriter and Los Angeles on

44:58

the tenth of. May as part

45:00

of Netflix is a joke and the

45:03

I Will Be Back at the Edinburgh

45:05

Festival up for me between the twelfth

45:07

and twenty third of August and this

45:09

is all for my says ends. Which

45:11

one the Edinburgh Comedy Award and Twenty

45:13

Twenty three. I

45:16

have a stand up to beginning

45:18

in Missouri Ember Dates still Tbc

45:20

but that never being seed them

45:22

than they were as I have

45:24

some work in progress shows with

45:26

Muslims start my fumbling return and

45:28

as died on August twenty sixth

45:30

of my said work in progress

45:32

with the same tone every comedians

45:34

the has. Like

45:37

a as as you made it

45:39

onto the second of the three

45:41

was the confidence With this the

45:43

second and fab the in is

45:45

about. The only one that I think

45:47

really stands out and explicitly but I'm

45:49

I'm doing the chess him friends on

45:51

the twenty six of my of gonna

45:53

shove the space in stress I'm I'm

45:55

on the Twenty ninth of May and

45:57

I'm doing a Thunder Thunder the for

46:00

Trinity Fifth or that the Twentieth Century

46:02

Tumblr Wells on the First of June.

46:04

So do come to that. There's also

46:06

a couple of people live shows the

46:08

Seventh and Eighth of June at the

46:10

Leicester Square Theatre in London. Our ticket

46:12

still left on that Chris. Almost

46:14

none of my own late, but

46:16

there are a few. Yes, I'm

46:19

also doing a work in progress

46:21

so sad time on the fourteenth

46:23

of do Anyway, well that's it.

46:25

You've enjoyed the Spiegel or eight.

46:27

Congratulations on your life going seventy

46:29

two point where you clearly become

46:31

a person with huge to someone

46:34

under and refinements are also one.

46:36

ah Joanie will voluntary subscriptions game

46:38

to help keep the so free

46:40

flourishing. An independent go to be

46:42

will focus.com and click for. Donate

46:44

Button subscribers get a world exclusive

46:47

access to the monthly ask and

46:49

the show as well as getting

46:51

I have an exclusive of vinyl

46:53

records of a special recording of

46:56

the show that is Chris Very

46:58

near to being produced. No

47:01

updates and all fake or how rothys

47:03

to test pressing? yes or whenever I'm

47:05

guessing. was this on the one because

47:07

he says two things in Lucky Connery.

47:10

one is love and the other is

47:12

the bugle subscriber vinyl record by anyone.

47:14

Patience is a much thank you very

47:16

much for listening. We would back next

47:19

week. Goodbye.