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3:18

right, I'm very happy to have

3:21

Safedee and Amos on the show

3:23

today. Thank you for joining us, sir. People

3:26

are not familiar. Safedee is

3:28

an economist and a world-renowned

3:30

author known for a

3:33

lot of his work in the Bitcoin space.

3:35

Of course, he wrote the Bitcoin Standard, which

3:37

is an internationally best-selling book. I'm

3:40

going to anger my

3:42

audience today because I've got Safedee on

3:45

the show. I've had so many people for years have

3:47

wanted me and you to have a conversation about Bitcoin.

3:49

Now we're sitting down and that's not really the topic

3:51

for today's show. We will do another

3:53

podcast at some point, all about Bitcoin. I promise.

3:57

But I was interested to have you on

3:59

because you've also been. been an outspoken

4:02

critic of the Israeli

4:05

government and of course their treatment

4:07

of the Palestinian people and

4:10

you are yourself Palestinian

4:12

and I must confess I

4:14

have not talked to anyone who's

4:17

Palestinian through this whole thing and I've done many

4:19

shows on the topic. I did do

4:22

a show, the Dean's show with

4:25

Eddie who's a Muslim but he's

4:27

not Palestinian and you're not

4:29

only Palestinian by blood but you actually grew

4:32

up over there, is that

4:34

right? Yes. So

4:36

and you were up in the West Bank? Yeah,

4:39

in Ramallah. Okay, and so I'm

4:41

just curious because I don't know this stuff, so how

4:43

long were you there? I

4:46

was there from 1990 until 1998. I

4:49

finished high school there.

4:52

That's when I lived there. So

4:55

you have something that 99.999% of

4:57

people commenting on this situation really don't

5:04

have which is that you actually have

5:06

experience living under the occupation.

5:09

Yes, I have. So what

5:11

was, before we get into

5:13

just kind of like talking about what's going on,

5:16

the history of the war, we could talk about

5:18

whatever you want to, but what was that like

5:20

for you? I mean like what were your experiences

5:22

living under foreign military occupation? Yeah,

5:26

it's not a lot of fun. It's

5:28

not a fun thing to look back upon. It's

5:31

not a fun place to be. Essentially,

5:34

it's gotten a lot worse now than

5:36

it was back then but I've seen,

5:38

I have followed the progression of how

5:41

it just continues to get worse and

5:43

worse. Within the West Bank, you have

5:45

the Israeli military that essentially controls the

5:47

place and they've effectively

5:49

controlled it since 1967, even

5:52

though the Palestinian Authority has some kind of authority

5:54

but ultimately it is the Israelis who

5:56

run the place. their

6:01

main mission is to just try and get

6:03

rid of as many Palestinians as they can

6:05

and to try and capture as much

6:08

land as they can. I mean, this is really the

6:10

key concept you understand. They want

6:12

more land and fewer Arabs. That's

6:14

the way they see it. And so

6:17

they do everything they can to try and get you

6:19

to leave. They do everything they can to make your

6:21

life miserable and they try and get as much of

6:23

your land as they can. And

6:25

that just colors the entire experience of

6:27

living there. Yeah, no,

6:29

I'm sure. And of course, it's

6:32

a situation that I

6:35

would say if any, I think if any group

6:38

of people found them, any group of human beings,

6:40

as we know them found themselves in that situation,

6:43

they would find it unacceptable,

6:45

unbearable, and wish to resist it.

6:48

And I think that, to me,

6:50

at least seems to be

6:52

the bottom line of the

6:54

Israel-Palestinian conflict since at

6:57

least 1967, although we could

6:59

probably go back quite a bit before that, but

7:01

at least since 1967. That

7:04

is the underlying dynamic that at least

7:06

from my conclusion

7:09

after doing a lot of studying is

7:11

that no matter how much people

7:14

on the kind of pro-Israeli side want to

7:16

argue about everything else, you

7:19

kind of just can't get away from that

7:21

underlying fact. That you just

7:23

can't say you're going to occupy

7:25

and dominate a people indefinitely.

7:29

And keep stealing

7:31

their land. Right, and keep stealing their

7:34

land continuously throughout the whole period. Yeah,

7:37

that's right. And really, this

7:39

is, you know, you shouldn't

7:41

say, I shouldn't start at 1967 and I could go

7:43

back to the 1920s or something like

7:46

that, but certainly at least since the creation

7:48

of Israel. And as I

7:50

know I've heard because I watched you debate

7:52

Walter Block and you brought up, I believe

7:54

you brought up Ilhan Pape in

7:56

that debate and I've read a bunch of his books. And

7:59

then of course, the response is always to go to

8:01

like character assassination. So there's something, well, he's a leftist or

8:03

something like that. And you're like, yeah, okay. Yeah, sure. He

8:05

is. I'm sure we think he's wrong about a whole bunch

8:07

of other stuff. But he

8:10

really lays out in great detail that it's not just what

8:12

happened in 1947 and 1948, but that every year after that,

8:16

every year after that, there was more ethnic

8:18

cleansing and more ethnic cleansing. And some years

8:20

it may have only been a few hundred

8:23

Palestinians, but it was con a constant process

8:25

of kind of a lot

8:27

at once and then just slow ethnic cleansing

8:29

over the years over the years and basically

8:31

up until today. Yeah,

8:33

and it continues. And essentially,

8:37

if you see it from the perspective of

8:40

anything that Israel does is justified

8:42

self defense, and nothing the

8:44

Palestinians do is justified self defense, then

8:47

you just have this dominant

8:50

stupid narrative that people have, which is Israel

8:53

is this stranded David

8:55

defending itself from all of these

8:57

Goliath has that surround it, which

8:59

is the complete opposite of

9:01

reality. This is a this is

9:03

this is a foreign

9:05

population that came in funded massively

9:08

and armed massively with foreign weapons,

9:11

and has been stealing land. The

9:13

key thing I keep bringing this up

9:16

is that in 1945, the

9:18

British conducted a very, very thorough

9:21

and accurate assessment

9:24

of land ownership in Palestine. And

9:28

from the privately owned land, forgetting

9:31

all the public land, just the privately owned land, which is about

9:33

56% of all the land was privately

9:35

owned from that, about

9:37

10% was owned by Jews. So 5.6%

9:39

of the entire territory was

9:44

owned by Jews or the Jewish National Fund.

9:47

And 90% of private property there, about 46% approximately,

9:55

of all the land was owned by Muslims and

9:57

Christians. And so this was the point

9:59

at which they already had with

10:01

the help of the British established the state and built

10:04

a military and Carried

10:07

out the process of ethnic cleansing hundreds

10:09

of thousands of Palestinians from their home

10:13

Right, you know, I one of the things

10:15

because I know, you know, I kind of

10:17

grew up because I'm Jewish so I grew

10:19

up with

10:21

the Official Israeli

10:23

propaganda being all that I ever

10:25

heard of the story Even

10:27

the story is you know told to you

10:29

basically that like, oh, you know like this

10:31

There's this group of our

10:34

people we were mistreated all throughout

10:36

the world and we wanted to

10:38

start our homeland here Land

10:41

without people for people without land and then

10:43

all these Arabs just attacked us this little

10:45

group And they just all attacked us all

10:48

these surrounding countries just because we declared independence,

10:50

you know Okay, like all of that aside,

10:53

which is not exactly the real history of it

10:56

But then the story is always like

10:58

and somehow miraculously We

11:00

won We won even though all

11:02

of these countries and I I do look back

11:04

at it now and I go Isn't I guess

11:06

that's in the story where my eyebrows should have

11:08

raised initially? Because that that sounds

11:11

kind of crazy Like wait, you're just

11:13

this little puny minority who's just been

11:15

beat up by everybody and then all

11:17

of these nations Attack your

11:19

one day old nation and you win

11:22

Well, how exactly does that happen? And then like

11:24

the more you actually study the history you realize

11:26

that oh, well Because that's

11:29

not the story because the

11:31

story is actually that a

11:33

group of incredibly well-financed Europeans

11:35

Who had like international bankers

11:38

behind them went in

11:40

there and and developed these very

11:42

sophisticated very badass

11:44

very cruel Militias many

11:46

of whom were blatantly involved in

11:49

terrorism before the creation of the

11:51

immediately before the creation of Israel That's

11:54

why they won Because they

11:56

were basically coming in with first

11:58

world financing picking on

12:00

people who didn't have anything like that, backing

12:03

them up. And also

12:05

because their real enemy in that

12:07

war was the Palestinian population. It

12:09

wasn't the Arab militaries. And

12:11

the Palestinian population had essentially already

12:13

been effectively disarmed. There was

12:15

no Palestinian military. There was no Palestinian

12:17

police. They were

12:20

disarmed between 1936 and 1939 by

12:23

the British with the help of these

12:25

same Zionists. So the Zionist

12:28

movement had already been extremely militant and extremely

12:30

political and extremely organized and had the British

12:33

Empire behind it. Clear on

12:35

the idea that we want to set up a Jewish state. And

12:38

they did do that in 1948. And

12:40

they did do that by kicking out somewhere

12:42

between 800,000 to 1 million people from their homes. And

12:47

they destroyed their homes. They destroyed their entire

12:49

villages. More than 500 villages have been completely

12:51

destroyed. That was just

12:53

in 1948. Many more have been destroyed since. And

12:56

many are still getting destroyed until today. And

12:59

they confiscated

13:01

effectively the land. This is what it ultimately

13:03

comes down to. For the

13:06

libertarians out here who are sold

13:08

the garbage propaganda about Israel being

13:10

some kind of a freedom haven, Israel

13:13

was created out of the government's

13:15

confiscation of the land of the

13:17

people that they chased out at

13:19

gunpoint. And the state

13:21

continues to own 93% of the land of

13:24

the country. 93% is owned by the state.

13:26

And that can't be owned privately

13:29

by anybody. It can only be

13:31

leased to Jews. So

13:33

any person from anybody anywhere in the world

13:35

who claims to be Jewish can

13:38

go there and get

13:40

land effectively leased at extremely subsidized

13:42

rates. The same

13:44

land that is being confiscated today or

13:46

was confiscated at any point between 1948

13:49

until today through this massive process

13:52

of ethnic cleansing. And these

13:55

Palestinians who were kicked out of that land cannot

13:57

buy that land or go back to the land.

14:00

to it under any possible

14:02

scenario. There's nothing you can do.

14:04

My wife's family, they left at

14:07

gunpoint from Yaffa, which is now south

14:09

of Tel Aviv, and

14:12

they left to Beirut, and

14:15

they had property in Manishiyya in Yaffa, and

14:18

they can't access it. They can't go back to

14:20

it. There's no amount of money that that

14:22

family could put up in order to go back

14:24

to that piece of land. But

14:27

random fat ass

14:29

dudes from Long Island, like Yaakov,

14:32

look him up, the

14:34

guy who came up with Israel's motto,

14:38

if I don't steal it, someone else will. Just

14:40

some random dude from Long Island who can go

14:42

to Palestine and kick a Palestinian family out of

14:44

their homes and take over their home, because he's

14:46

Jewish and they're not. That's what it

14:49

really is. So if you support some kind of

14:51

free market idea, if you

14:53

think the state shouldn't intervene, the

14:55

entire existence of the state of Israel

14:58

is just one massive government intervention in the

15:00

market of land for Palestine. This is it.

15:02

There's just one massive government distortion violently

15:06

enforced where the military steals land

15:08

and the government administers that land to

15:10

anybody from anywhere in the world who

15:12

claims to be Jewish and

15:15

prevents the owners of that land from

15:18

keeping it, no matter how much money they pay,

15:20

because it just assigns them collective guilt for whatever

15:22

any of them does in self-defense

15:25

or in any shape or form. They're all guilty

15:27

of it all, so they all get to go

15:29

and they all can't come back. Yeah,

15:31

it's really something. I mean, look, and again,

15:34

I know there's people, because it's just kind

15:36

of the nature of human beings. No matter

15:38

what issue you have, no matter how blatantly

15:40

wrong something is, there will be people who

15:42

do mental gymnastics to try to somehow defend

15:45

the indefensible. I mean, you know, you debated

15:47

Walter Block. That was the name of the

15:49

book he wrote. So he's really taking it

15:51

to the next level with this

15:53

war. There are a few things

15:55

that, Like, to me, were just,

15:57

you know, in kind of reassessing my... view on

15:59

all of this and reading or a lot about

16:01

it, they were just things were like a you

16:04

just can't get away from that and one of

16:06

the major ones to me was that point that

16:08

you're making right they are that I I. Sent

16:10

out Well okay is may not apply

16:12

to me anymore, but. Before.

16:15

I started. Badass thing about all the stuff.

16:17

I have the right to go to Israel

16:19

tomorrow and just and that's it is, I

16:21

have a right to go there. yet. Somebody

16:24

who was there. I mean, nineteen Forty Eight

16:26

is like it's a long time ago. but

16:28

it's not that long ago. There are people

16:30

who were alive. You know, during this time

16:33

we're still alive Right now. I'm fewer and

16:35

fewer of them as the years go on.

16:37

But there are bits but this. the guy

16:39

who actually owned a house there is not

16:42

allowed to return. but yet to some random

16:44

did you. Do from Brooklyn New York can

16:46

just go to and the just take a

16:48

pass that I mean it's a if you

16:50

if you believe and property rights in any

16:53

sense night and being a strict Libertarians like

16:55

me and you are I'm just saying like

16:57

you're normally person who just kind of feels

16:59

like you know based yeah okay I own

17:01

my house or something like that says indefensible

17:04

and I will say i did you know

17:06

I I watched recently on. The.

17:08

Lex Friedman podcast where they had a

17:10

very long debate. Much to

17:12

on to a debate about the history

17:15

of dozens. And it's like. It's.

17:17

Painful to me to see are

17:19

like Benny Morris Food you know

17:21

knows better. Making these like

17:24

kind of ridiculous defenses for the ethnic

17:26

cleansing. and like it's like it wasn't

17:28

an ethnic cleansing, but if it was

17:30

an ethnic cleansing may maybe we should

17:32

have done more of the ethnic cleansing.

17:34

It's all this stuff and the argument

17:36

that he seems to be making. Look.

17:39

I know Nazi comparisons are lazy

17:42

is quite often, but it's the

17:44

identical argument that I've heard Holocaust

17:46

in Ayers make. Which is that

17:49

What they'll say is that you

17:51

can't find. The. Official

17:53

documents. That. that

17:56

says it is the policy

17:58

of the zionists to

18:00

ethnically cleanse all of these people.

18:03

But you do have what you can

18:05

find essentially, by the way, this is

18:07

what Holocaust deniers argue about the Holocaust,

18:09

you can't find the official document where

18:12

Adolf Hitler orders the German people to

18:14

go genocidal. And it's like, okay, yes.

18:16

But what we do have is that

18:18

he talked about doing it for many

18:20

years, a bunch of people at the

18:23

top level of government talked about doing

18:25

it, and then they did it. So

18:28

that's enough. That's more than enough

18:30

to create a narrative of which

18:33

is what historians do. And that's essentially

18:35

the same thing here that

18:37

you have with the early Zionist settlers.

18:40

Transfer was talked about over and over

18:42

and over again from all of the

18:44

top Zionist officials. And then when they

18:47

had the opportunity to, they did it.

18:50

And we're sitting here arguing over whether there was

18:52

an official document that said we were going to

18:54

do it. I mean, we know what happened here.

18:56

And again, there's one of the things

18:59

about 1948 not being that long ago, is we

19:02

also have firsthand testimony from people on

19:04

both sides of it. I'm

19:06

sure you've seen those compilations of old

19:08

Israeli soldiers talking about what they did

19:11

in the war. And some of them

19:13

kind of laughing and kind of expressing

19:15

this kind of sociopathic glee about it.

19:17

Others seem kind of ashamed about it,

19:20

but they all talk about what they

19:22

did. This is not really up

19:24

for debate. Yeah,

19:26

it's predominantly up for debate in the US, where

19:28

I am like outside in the rest of the

19:31

world. In Israel, the sentiment is much more like,

19:33

yeah, we did it. I think now as well.

19:35

I mean, I would say maybe in the 70s,

19:37

80s, 90s, there was a more denialist

19:43

and also kind of more decent conception of what

19:45

Israel is. So for people that was, you know,

19:47

we would never do something like this. And even

19:50

if we did it, you know, we just don't

19:52

talk about it. But now it's

19:54

a lot more like, yeah, we did it and we

19:56

should do more of it. And we're going to

19:58

do more of it. And

20:00

it's only the only real

20:02

debate you see, unfortunately,

20:05

within kind of most

20:07

discourse there

20:10

is whether we should be very public

20:12

about it so that the world could hold it

20:14

against us or whether we should just try

20:17

and not be very public about it. But

20:21

the let's be public about it side seems to

20:23

be winning that debate, that's for sure. Yeah,

20:26

well, I mean, I've got to say I've

20:28

been a little bit surprised that

20:31

after the ICJ ruling,

20:33

there's still they've still been so

20:35

blatant about the rhetoric because you

20:37

would have thought at least at

20:39

that point, they'd go, hey, let's

20:41

not like broadcast exactly what

20:44

our intentions here are. But it has not.

20:46

It has not slowed them down one bit.

20:48

I'll tell you, and this is maybe a

20:50

little bit of a conspiracy speculating.

20:52

But there are

20:55

I'll just say this. Sometimes

20:59

it seems to me

21:01

that you

21:04

know, you see people like that

21:06

Rabbi Shmooley Botech and people

21:08

like this, and it just

21:10

seems to me like, are

21:13

you trying to create

21:15

more hatred of Jewish people? Like, is

21:17

that your goal? Because if that was

21:19

your goal, you couldn't be doing a

21:21

better job. And I will

21:24

say there's this weird dynamic

21:27

that's been true from the very beginning

21:29

of Zionism, where in

21:32

a strange way, there is

21:35

this symbiotic relationship between hatred

21:37

of Jews and the

21:39

Zionist agenda, where they actually kind

21:41

of work well together. And this

21:44

is part of the reason why

21:46

the Stern gang wanted to ally

21:48

with the Nazis. In the

21:50

very beginning of World War Two, and it was

21:52

only because Adolf Hitler really didn't like Jews so

21:54

much that he wasn't willing to do it. But

21:57

you can understand where the The

22:00

Zionist agenda at the time very much

22:02

lined up with Hitler's agenda. I mean,

22:04

Hitler was like, we want to kick

22:06

all the Jews out of Europe. And

22:08

the Zionists were like, yeah, it's exactly

22:10

what we want. We want all the

22:12

Jews to leave Europe and come here.

22:14

And still to this day, there is

22:16

this dynamic where the only justification that

22:19

Israel has for what it's doing to

22:21

Gaza right now has to rely on.

22:23

There's this huge hatred of Jewish people

22:25

everywhere. And it almost does seem like

22:27

it seems like drumming

22:29

that up might actually be their

22:31

goal. And, you know, I don't

22:33

know if that's true for sure, but

22:35

I do know for sure that they

22:37

are creating more hatred of Jewish people

22:39

and that they also benefit from that

22:42

to some degree. The

22:48

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23:08

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23:27

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the safehouse.com and get yours now. I

24:17

think my honest opinion is that

24:19

Zionism is a form of ethno-nationalism

24:22

from late 19th century, early 20th

24:24

century, Eastern Europe. And

24:27

we've seen how that one works out. We've

24:29

had all of 20th century

24:31

European history as one giant

24:33

open-air experiment in how

24:35

that works out, and the answer

24:37

is not well. That stuff doesn't

24:40

really work very well. It

24:42

particularly doesn't work when done by an imported

24:45

population in the land in which they are

24:47

a tiny minority. So in 1917, when the

24:49

Balfour Declaration was issued by the British government,

24:53

Jews constituted something around 5% of

24:55

the local population, but they were a part of

24:57

the population. And when

25:00

people talk about antisemitism, it's worth

25:02

understanding how things were back then.

25:04

There's a diary

25:07

by a Polish Hasidic rabbi who traveled

25:09

to Palestine in 1747, and he describes

25:11

how in Hebron, the Jews

25:13

there lived. And

25:17

they have an open courtyard where they leave it

25:19

unlocked during the Sabbath, and nobody comes to them,

25:21

and then they celebrate with all of the others.

25:23

And everybody here loves the Jews. And for him,

25:26

it's unique because he's used to Poland.

25:28

This is different. In

25:32

Palestine, they loved them. They're celebrated, and

25:34

they're respected. And that

25:36

was really the case. They could own property

25:38

up until 1948. It

25:41

was possible for Jews to own property, and that's how

25:43

Zionist Europeans came to Palestine and purchased. Property

25:46

legally. Only

25:49

after 1948 did this

25:51

become an issue. Only then did

25:53

the land market become ethnicity-based. Before that,

25:55

for 1,300 years, you hadn't practiced

25:57

it. free

26:00

market in land. And specifically

26:02

that started ironically and most people

26:04

don't know this of course, that

26:07

started in 637 with

26:10

the Muslim conquest because it was

26:12

the Islamic conquest of Palestine that

26:14

allowed Jews back in because

26:16

Jews were exiled five centuries earlier.

26:19

They came back thanks to the

26:21

Islamic conquest when Omar the second

26:23

caliph in Islam entered Jerusalem. He

26:25

got some Jews from Arabia with them, historians

26:28

who could figure out from Jerusalem where the temple

26:30

was and they figured it out and it was

26:32

a trash dump. The Romans had turned it into

26:34

a trash dump and they figured

26:36

out where it was and they cleaned it and they

26:39

rehabilitated it and they built a mosque on it and

26:41

they allowed Jews to pray there as well. And since

26:43

then, Jews had lived

26:45

there while all

26:47

of this anti-Semitic drama was

26:49

happening in Europe, allowing

26:52

them to develop this kind of PTSD,

26:54

ethno-nationalism that brings all

26:56

of that anti-Semitism to Palestine

26:58

and projects it on the local population which

27:01

had accepted Jews for 1300 years.

27:04

Muslims and Christians and Jews had

27:06

co-existed and lived there and

27:08

trouble only starts when

27:11

you tie the land

27:13

ownership and the state

27:15

and citizenship to

27:18

ethnicity as it would

27:20

in any other situation in any other country. It's

27:22

not complicated if you did the same thing. That's

27:24

what I asked Walter Block. If you did the

27:26

same thing in Louisiana, Louisiana is about 10% French

27:30

at this point. So you could say

27:33

Louisiana should be a French homeland. I mean

27:35

you could start a religion that believes that

27:37

and have a holy book that says Louisiana

27:39

should be French and it's 10% of them

27:41

and now all the non-French can't own land

27:43

anymore. How would Walter Block

27:45

feel about that? And I think more interestingly is

27:47

the question I asked him, why doesn't he campaign

27:49

for something like that? Why does he

27:52

feel so strongly about it that he writes a book

27:54

in defense of that happening in my land

27:58

but he doesn't want the same for America? America in

28:00

his land. Well, it does seem

28:02

like the with a lot

28:04

of people, this is certainly not exclusive to

28:07

Walter Block, although it is, I will

28:10

admit, it's much more troubling and

28:13

slightly heartbreaking to hear him make

28:16

these mistakes, but lots of people. And

28:19

this has really been on display since

28:21

October. It's amazing

28:23

how much people contradict themselves or contradict

28:25

the foundation of everything they believe in

28:28

when the topic of Israel comes

28:30

up. And I'm not 100% sure

28:33

why exactly that is. I have my

28:35

suspicions, but it's amazing. I mean, watching

28:37

all these people, you know, the Ben

28:39

Shapiro types who like made millions of

28:41

dollars railing against

28:43

cancel culture and being

28:46

pro free speech, opposing identity politics.

28:49

And yet when the topic of

28:51

Israel comes up, they all become

28:53

blue haired, 19 year old college

28:57

freshmen chicks who like all they can do is

28:59

I mean, I literally just see that if I

29:01

have this exchange right here, because it's just earlier

29:03

today, I just had

29:06

another one like the thousandth of

29:09

these things. But so, um, uh,

29:12

Darrell Cooper, are you familiar with, uh,

29:14

with Darrell Cooper, who's great, and

29:16

is really just readily have a lot to

29:18

make. Yes, Marta is Marta May

29:21

on Twitter. His podcast series about the

29:23

history of Israel, Palestine is phenomenal. You

29:25

should really check that out if you

29:27

have the time. But so he wrote

29:29

a thing to this

29:31

guy, Richard Goldberg. So he writes a,

29:33

um, this is his tweet. I'll read

29:36

it. He said, he said, um, um,

29:40

so he's talking about the world central

29:43

kitchen that was, uh, uh,

29:46

that was to feed hungry people. It

29:48

was developed after the 2010 Haiti earthquake.

29:50

Um, and they, uh, have

29:53

since been serving people after disasters

29:55

in many countries, including Gaza. And

29:58

he writes this, he writes the. IDF purposely

30:01

murdered several of the

30:04

WCK, the World Central Kitchen's aid

30:06

workers in three separate strikes to pick

30:08

off survivors trying to escape. Andres

30:12

expressed his grief and outrage over

30:14

this crime, and all three ex-rebel,

30:17

human scum

30:20

can do is call him

30:23

an anti-Semite, disgusting, disgraceful, and

30:26

you disgrace yourself by standing with

30:28

people like Goldberg. So that's what

30:30

he said. And this

30:32

Richard Goldberg's response is, people

30:34

like Goldberg, why don't you just say

30:37

what's really on your mind? Let

30:39

it out. So his only

30:41

response to this is what? It's like

30:43

what the WCK's response is. You're

30:45

a racist. You know, this is like,

30:47

anyway. Exactly, exactly. It's

30:50

so pathetic. And it's amazing because

30:52

they've monetized and put an entire

30:54

brand on their opposition to that

30:56

and on the whole idea that

30:59

you being gay does not mean that I

31:01

need to say things or you being trans

31:03

does not mean that I should say things.

31:05

And that sounds so edgy until it comes

31:07

to this government-owned

31:10

land plot that they insist

31:12

must be managed on an

31:14

ethnodial basis. And now everybody

31:16

must unite, you know? If

31:19

you wanted to summarize somebody like Ben Shapiro, this

31:21

kind of giant class of parasites

31:23

that keep repeating this message essentially, which

31:26

is identity

31:28

politics is bad, but we should

31:30

all unite behind Israel, you know,

31:32

then send it unlimited money and

31:34

weapons. And that's just basic common

31:36

sense. And if you don't do

31:38

that, then obviously you're just a racist. I

31:41

mean to be a Zionist who rails

31:43

against identity politics just in itself, like

31:45

how does your head not explode from

31:48

the contradiction of that? It is that

31:50

– Yeah, I always wondered.

31:52

Wouldn't you support something like this being

31:54

done here in the States with

31:56

some of the dynamic where Christians only

31:59

can own land? and minorities cannot.

32:02

And then why don't you lobby

32:04

for something like that? There. Yeah.

32:06

And what did you do if that happened?

32:08

What would you do if a candidate ran

32:10

on that platform? I imagine Itamar

32:13

Ben Gavir and Bezalel Smotrich, basically

32:15

the two most important people in

32:17

Israeli politics at this point, that

32:19

the extremist wing that decides

32:22

if the government stays in power or not. And

32:25

they captured a lot of the

32:27

sentiment in this war and they've

32:30

been instrumental in it. Well,

32:32

let's do a thought experiment. What happens if

32:34

an American politician decides to run on a

32:36

similar platform but replacing Jews

32:39

in Israel with Christians in America? What

32:42

would you do as an American then?

32:44

Yeah, I mean,

32:46

to ask the question answers itself.

32:49

And the other thing that's crazy to me

32:51

is that, you know, I remember

32:54

watching over, you know, not

32:57

that long ago, because back in

32:59

2017, 2018, how much

33:01

the neocons hated the

33:04

alt-right types, like the

33:06

white nationalist guys who had their march in

33:08

Charlottesville or whatever. And the neocons would be

33:10

all over just how horrible they are. And

33:12

then you just kind of realize, like, yeah,

33:14

but you're the same

33:17

only for Israel. You're like

33:19

the exact same people you believe in the

33:21

ethno state, down to everything, I mean, down

33:23

to the like, you know, like when they'd

33:25

be like, well, this is why Donald Trump's

33:27

rhetoric of build the wall is so upsetting

33:29

and all of this. And you're like, oh,

33:32

okay. But you're like,

33:34

how can you, you know

33:37

what I mean? It's just,

33:39

it's so bizarre to me

33:41

that you go, okay, so

33:43

you're against ethno nationalism and

33:45

building a wall. And the US

33:47

wall is built on US territory. It's

33:50

uncontroversial territory. It's uncontroversial border. There's no

33:52

dispute between the Mexicans in the US,

33:54

as far as I know. But

33:57

Israel, of course, border

34:00

in the West Bank because if it does declare its

34:02

border, then it either has

34:04

to take in the Palestinians and then make

34:06

them either equal citizens, which it doesn't want

34:08

to do because then even

34:11

after a century of fiat bullshit,

34:14

they still can't get a majority or they're

34:16

still very close to 50%. So

34:20

they can't just go and give everybody passports and

34:22

just make them equal Israeli citizens because that defeats

34:24

the whole point. They want to keep this an

34:26

ethno-national state. And so

34:28

they want to keep their cake and

34:31

eat it too. They want to keep the West Bank

34:33

and continue to steal land as it is to drive

34:35

people away as much as they can to change the

34:37

status quo and continue to build settlements. And this is

34:39

the key thing. This is the thing. When

34:41

you talk to Zionists, I just had a debate with

34:43

Yaron Brook, which should be out soon, on

34:46

the Robert Breedlove Show. Oh my God.

34:49

Now I'm sentenced to go listen to that,

34:52

but God, I cannot stand that guy. Well,

34:54

anyway, I'm glad he debated somebody. Yeah,

34:56

but I mean, it got to the point where he says,

34:59

okay, well, I condemn the settlers. But

35:01

in their mind, they don't have

35:04

the capacity because of all of the

35:06

damage that the fiat Zionist propaganda does.

35:08

They don't have the capacity of processing the

35:10

consequences of something like this. They just

35:13

think of it as, well, I'm going to

35:15

say I condemn it and therefore that

35:17

just you can't

35:19

use it as a part of the argument. I'm

35:22

still going to believe that Israel is doing good.

35:24

I'm still going to believe that they are the

35:26

victim, even though they're stealing people's land and they're

35:28

kicking them out of their homes and bringing in

35:31

fat, long Islanders like Yakov to take their

35:33

homes. You're still going to just say,

35:35

I condemn that. And then, as if

35:37

the victims of that are just supposed to

35:39

say, oh, well, Yaron Brook says he condemns

35:41

it. And now we can just

35:45

get on with our lives. But

35:47

it doesn't work like that. It's

35:49

been 76, 77 years of this

35:52

violent repression. Yeah,

35:56

and look, I mean, I think that the...

36:00

damage of the settlements. For

36:03

anybody who doesn't know, what we're referring to

36:05

basically is the fact that, so again, rough

36:07

history, and I've gone through this a lot

36:10

on the podcast, but just very quickly, rough

36:12

history, right? The UN partition recommendation in 1947

36:14

offered the

36:17

Jews about 55% of the territory.

36:19

The Arabs rejected this immediately because

36:21

the Jews only owned like 5%

36:23

of the land there and they

36:25

were a minority of the population

36:27

and they were like, no, this

36:29

is ridiculous that they should get this much. Yeah, I

36:31

think the way to think about it is imagine the United

36:34

Nations goes to your country and says 55% of

36:36

this country needs to go to this new

36:38

government that we're going to be setting up that's going to

36:40

get 50% of the country that's going to

36:43

own it. It's going to have a land agency, it's

36:45

called the Israeli Land Authority, that's just going to own

36:47

all of the land and if

36:49

you don't like it, then

36:51

they're going to just have to launch a war against you.

36:54

Yeah, and imagine, and they were like, okay, well, we

36:56

have to give over half of

36:58

your country to these people because

37:00

they were horribly mistreated

37:03

in Asia. And you'd

37:05

be like, well, okay, but why

37:07

shouldn't they get a part of Asia? And

37:09

you're like, no, no, no, don't worry about

37:11

it, we voted on it and

37:14

all of the Asian countries agreed that you should give

37:16

up 50% close up your land.

37:18

And they're like, what? So what? Who cares

37:20

if they said that? Because there wasn't, as

37:22

Darrell Cooper points out, there wasn't like a

37:24

country within like a thousand miles

37:27

of Palestine who voted for

37:29

the Partition recommendation. Anyway,

37:32

so then after the

37:34

war in in 48, the

37:38

the Zionists take much more than that 55% closer to 78% of

37:40

the land

37:42

and they so they keep that and then after

37:45

the war in 1967, they essentially took 100% of

37:50

it and have had control of that

37:52

ever since. And so the settlements

37:55

are them building huge

37:57

communities on the

38:00

The remaining 22% where

38:03

the Palestinians live but is under Israeli control.

38:05

And so it's not just the fact that

38:07

they're building settlements there. It's

38:10

symbolically what

38:12

it demonstrates to the Palestinian people

38:14

is that you're never getting this

38:16

back. You're

38:18

never even going to get the 22% that's left. Forget

38:22

about getting back to like any of the

38:24

territory you used to have. And

38:26

so the message basically

38:29

is that you should be hopeless. You

38:32

should be hopeless to ever not live

38:34

under this totalitarian rule. And

38:36

that is, and this

38:39

doesn't justify terrorism

38:41

or killing of innocent people or anything like

38:43

that, but that is a perfect recipe to

38:45

create terrorism. To tell people

38:48

that you're living under totalitarianism and

38:50

it's permanent. You never have any

38:52

hope. And that is

38:54

terrorism in itself. It is

38:56

not morally distinct in any way

38:58

from the indiscriminate

39:01

terrorism that targets civilians. This

39:04

is the thing. Ultimately, if you believe

39:06

in initiating violence against people who haven't

39:09

initiated violence, then you

39:11

are engaging in terrorism.

39:15

If you want to use the term in any

39:17

way other than the kind of Orwellian way in

39:19

which it gets used in mainstream media, which is

39:21

anybody in the US doesn't like. The

39:24

idea of terrorizing civilians in

39:27

order to achieve political games, in order to get the

39:29

civilians to move, that's

39:32

essentially what Israel has been doing all along.

39:35

And they were the ones who brought in the terrorism to

39:37

the region. I mean, read about Israeli terrorism in 1947 and

39:39

1948. It

39:42

makes the Palestinians look like amateurs. One of the

39:44

biggest explosions done in the 20th century was in

39:46

the King David Hotel or maybe it was one

39:48

of the other ones. But they

39:51

broke records. They killed like 91 people. Including

39:54

some Jews. My own grandfather

39:56

escaped, had left the

39:58

building minutes after that. before, a

40:00

minute after, no, minutes

40:04

before, obviously. He left minutes before

40:06

the whole building was blown up.

40:08

This was very common. And

40:10

the point was to terrorize the population to get them to

40:12

leave. It was very well understood. And that's what they did.

40:15

Yeah. And just so

40:17

people know, it's not,

40:22

they expressly, openly admitted this.

40:24

It's not as if this is like,

40:26

like the label terrorism is like

40:28

a label that you're putting on the Zionist

40:31

militias right up, right

40:33

previously to the creation of the state

40:35

of Israel. They openly said, Menachem Begin

40:37

openly said that like, yeah, we think

40:39

this is a legitimate tool and that

40:41

they were in from their perspective, because

40:44

it, you know, at this point late

40:47

in the game, basically by the

40:49

during World War Two and after

40:51

World War Two, basically the

40:53

British had pissed everybody off. The Arabs

40:55

didn't like them and the Jews didn't

40:58

like them either anymore. And they were

41:00

kind of in this impossible dance where

41:02

for many years they were trying to

41:04

appease the Zionists. There were

41:06

uprisings as a result to this. Then they tried

41:08

to appease the Arabs by limiting Jewish

41:11

migration into Palestine and the run up to World

41:13

War Two and during World War Two. They had

41:15

that pissed the Zionists off. So they were kind of

41:17

in this position where like they couldn't, they

41:20

just didn't know what to do. This is why they ultimately threw their

41:22

hands up and kicked it over to the UN. But

41:24

in the meantime, the Zionists

41:27

openly embraced terrorism and

41:30

their defense was that the

41:32

British were an occupying force.

41:35

And so terrorism was a legitimate

41:37

tool to use to drive occupiers

41:40

out of your land. And

41:42

it's just funny that that's it's like,

41:45

okay, so you guys did establish that

41:47

you think it's legitimate to use terrorism

41:49

to drive out occupiers. Well,

41:51

you know, okay, this

41:53

is the bed that you made. And that by the

41:55

way, that's not to say that the Zionists were correct

41:57

in that. I'm sure me and save would both agree.

42:00

that you can't kill innocent people, it doesn't matter

42:02

what the circumstances are. I do think we would

42:04

also agree that you have a right to self-defense.

42:07

A soldier coming into your territory is not

42:09

the same thing as a civilian sitting in

42:11

the territory next door to

42:13

you. But I'm just making the point that

42:15

the Zionists really have no moral leg to

42:17

stand on here to condemn

42:19

terrorism as a tactic to drive out

42:22

an occupier. Yeah,

42:24

and the entire brand rests on

42:26

moral superiority. And so the entire

42:28

brand rests on, you know, we

42:31

have more gay pride parades in

42:33

Israel than the Palestinians, and

42:35

therefore we get to take their land. We

42:37

have more whatever is fashionable to

42:39

the audience that you're talking to. This is the

42:41

kind of formula for the Israeli Hasbara. You just

42:43

emphasize that aspect of it. And there's more of

42:46

it, obviously, in Israel because, you know, when

42:48

you've just stolen an entire country, you're going

42:50

to be doing a lot better than the

42:53

people whose entire country just got stolen and

42:55

lost their homes and became refugees

42:57

with nothing in foreign lands. It's

43:00

going to be very different. You took

43:02

an entire country and then you were able to

43:04

build on it, which the Palestinians didn't really have

43:06

the ability to do. But

43:09

this is the same kind of

43:11

justification that they continue to use

43:13

to try and pass this

43:18

off, that we can get to genocide Gaza.

43:20

We can kill as many civilians as we

43:23

can because they started it because they

43:25

are immoral. They are doing

43:27

impossible, immoral things. But

43:29

there is nothing that the Palestinians have

43:31

done that matches what the Israelis have

43:33

done in terms of targeting civilians, in

43:36

terms of terrorizing people, kicking them out

43:38

of their homes, aerial bombardments of civilians.

43:41

It's incomparable. No,

43:43

and then they always rely on this kind

43:45

of hypothetical

43:48

projection of, so

43:51

they'll go, well, Hamas had

43:53

genocidal intent or something

43:55

like that. And, you know,

43:57

look, I don't know. I mean, maybe.

44:00

Maybe that's true. I'm sure that there is

44:02

true for some people in Hamas that would

44:04

if they had the power, maybe, you know,

44:06

like wipe the Jews out or something like

44:09

that. But they don't have the power

44:11

to do that. So what are we even talking about?

44:13

It's like it's like talking about what a

44:15

schizophrenic homeless guy on the street would

44:18

do if he had the nuclear codes

44:20

or something like that. It's like, okay,

44:22

but that's all just hypothetical. Meanwhile, you

44:24

got Israel does have the power and

44:26

is doing what they're doing to the

44:29

people of Gaza. So how they get

44:31

you to focus on this hypothetical, you

44:33

know, I've had people say

44:35

to me, you know, the important question

44:37

is, what do you think Hamas would

44:39

do if they took power over

44:42

Israel? And I'm like, Hamas doesn't even

44:44

have power in Gaza. What

44:46

are you talking about? What fantasy

44:48

are you living in that they're ever going

44:50

to rule over the Israelis? But Israel

44:53

ruling over the Palestinians isn't a

44:55

fantasy. That's what's actually happening. And

44:57

it's I mean, of course, you

44:59

understand where they have to distract

45:01

from that and focus on everything

45:03

else because in their case, the

45:06

actual the actual finance minister of Israel is

45:08

talking about how we should start making our

45:10

plans for the after war with a population

45:12

with an Arab population in Gaza of about

45:15

100 to 200,000. So

45:17

he's already making

45:19

plans for a Gaza with 2 million

45:21

fewer people in it. That's

45:24

the plan of the finance ministry. You

45:26

have the president saying there's no such

45:28

a thing as an innocent civilian in

45:30

Gaza. You have the Prime Minister invoking

45:33

biblical verses specifically saying do not spare

45:35

any child or woman

45:38

or civilian specifically to appease

45:40

the base that wants to see this. And

45:43

it's taking place. We're seeing it that

45:45

soldiers are chanting about it and it's

45:48

fully televised. And

45:50

yet what's really bothering

45:53

people is the feelings of stupid

45:56

college kids in the US when

45:59

they hear a about random

46:01

other college kids protesting this

46:03

stuff, rather

46:05

than the fact that all this mass

46:08

murder is taking place, which is

46:10

real genocide. Well, look, I

46:12

mean, look, of course I agree

46:15

with you. And

46:17

it's wild again to see that the

46:19

sides flip and the people who are

46:22

now very concerned about college kids feeling

46:24

safe or whatever, you know what I

46:27

mean? Or this weird blurring of the

46:29

line between hearing something that you don't

46:31

like and that being the same as

46:35

like violence, which has been

46:37

kind of, you know, it's

46:39

been a dominant narrative on college

46:41

campuses, particularly over the last decade, but it's,

46:43

you know, so now, but now a bunch

46:45

of these right wingers are somehow on board

46:47

with this. But of

46:49

course, as I'm sure you're well aware, the

46:52

flip side to that is that, man,

46:56

international opinion really has been

46:58

moved in a way that

47:00

was unforeseeable to me before

47:02

this current war, where it does seem

47:04

like so many people,

47:07

not just Americans, but around the

47:09

world, that I'm particularly stunned by

47:11

in America, how many people are

47:13

waking up to like, oh, how

47:15

evil what's happening there is? And,

47:18

you know, I was just the other day

47:20

looking at some of the opinion polls about

47:22

it, and it is pretty wild. There's something

47:24

like 50% of Democratic voters view it as

47:26

a genocide, and certainly

47:29

amongst younger people. I

47:32

think the fact that there's just been so much,

47:35

so many images and videos out of

47:38

this war, I mean, it's like, I

47:40

can't go on Twitter any

47:42

day and not see like another

47:44

five babies just being

47:46

crushed to death in a building somewhere.

47:49

And it's, I do think at least

47:51

waking a lot of people up to, you

47:54

know, however horrific

47:57

what happened on October 7th. was

48:00

and then certainly was. And

48:03

of course, there's a lot about October

48:05

7th that still should be investigated. But

48:08

there's pretty much no question that a lot of

48:10

innocent people were killed and it was horrible, what

48:13

happened. But that just

48:15

can't justify this. I mean,

48:19

innocent people getting killed is horrible. But

48:21

that does not justify just killing

48:23

babies. I mean, it's like the worst thing

48:25

in the world that any human being could

48:27

do. And we all see it every single

48:29

day. And I do think people have kind of, there's

48:32

at least been a major shift in people's

48:35

perception of what's going on there for many

48:37

people. I

48:39

think so. I kind of hope so.

48:41

I mean, I think it's just been

48:43

so shocking because for the vast majority

48:45

of people, you've been lectured incessantly over

48:47

the last few decades. And wherever

48:50

you live in the world, you've been lectured on this whole

48:53

human rights narrative that

48:55

democracies don't do nasty things. We

48:57

respect human life. And now you're

48:59

seeing the mask come off because

49:01

ultimately this really comes down

49:04

to a set

49:06

of rules that is not applicable to Israel. It's

49:08

never been applicable to Israel. The

49:11

Holocaust card has been played effectively since 1948 wherein

49:15

we had all of these international treaties and

49:17

all of these ways in which governments were

49:19

supposed to be operating in the New World

49:22

Order. But in the case of Israel, the

49:26

rules were overlooked almost always under

49:28

the pretext that well, bad

49:31

things happened. And it never

49:33

really got the kind of attention that it's getting

49:38

right now because let's face it,

49:40

there's been an enormous amount of stupid propaganda

49:43

everywhere, whether it's in Hollywood,

49:45

TV, media, universities, newspapers,

49:48

all of these places have been hotbeds of

49:51

stupid Zionist propaganda that has massively colored

49:54

people's brains. And I think if

49:56

you've woken up from propaganda in other

49:58

parts of your life, which in know, if you're listening to

50:01

Dave Smith at this point, then you probably are. Then

50:04

I think you need to imagine

50:06

going through a similarly transformative

50:08

large amount of mental clearing

50:12

of garbage in order

50:14

to be able to really understand what's going on

50:16

because you've watched so many movies in which the

50:18

narrative has always been made to sound in a

50:21

certain way. All the media has been different. And

50:23

now, I mean, A, we

50:25

have Palestinians are getting smartphones,

50:27

so it's getting easier to get the

50:29

word out. But I think we've also

50:32

seen an incredibly transformative change in the

50:34

way Israel has been conducting itself. I

50:36

mean, the current Israeli leadership is nothing

50:38

like anything that has existed before. You

50:40

don't have to be a fan of

50:42

David Ben-Gurion, and I certainly am not,

50:45

but you still have to understand this is enormously different from

50:47

what was going on in 1948. And in most of

50:52

American, most of Israeli history, I mean,

50:54

I guess Ben-Gurion, you could argue, was probably the

50:56

closest. But this was very different from most of

50:59

Israeli history in the fact that they're

51:02

very openly clear

51:04

on the fact that we need to try

51:07

and get as many Palestinians out

51:09

of the West Bank in Gaza as we can,

51:12

establish as we can, capitalizing on

51:14

October 7 as much as we can.

51:16

And of course, this is why we've

51:19

seen this enormous amount

51:21

of focus on the events

51:24

of October 7 and

51:26

the magnification of all these fantastic stories

51:28

that have been completely proven false, like

51:30

all of the beheaded babies

51:33

and rape stories. All that

51:35

stuff is, it's been pretty

51:37

clear that the people behind it are completely

51:39

untrustworthy liars in many contexts.

51:42

So it's, but

51:44

it has been utilized to do this. And

51:46

I think you've seen this over and over

51:48

again in American wars and

51:51

in Israeli wars, where you get

51:53

some kind of fake catastrophe, like

51:55

the Kuwaiti incubator

51:58

babies and all. And

52:00

or you get you magnify some kind

52:03

of catastrophe and then people become emotional

52:06

and they get into all kinds of insane decisions

52:08

effectively what happened then because it was kind of unthinkable

52:10

for most people that they would. That

52:13

they would support this kind of insane

52:15

bombing of quantities, but then if

52:18

you factor in beheaded babies and all

52:20

of these stories, then it becomes possible.

52:23

So people just like with

52:26

covid, you know, people got really scared

52:28

initially with the early propaganda

52:30

of seven

52:32

Sigma pandemic and once

52:35

in a century flew or whatever the hell they

52:37

were calling it at that time. And

52:41

then, you know, everybody was freaked out for

52:43

a couple of months and then

52:46

slowly but surely by

52:49

IQ point, I would say people started to wake up

52:52

and people started to realize that. Yeah,

52:55

I mean, we see the

52:57

same pattern when you get this enormous fear

52:59

and then you get this giant reaction and

53:01

then you get this weird

53:03

change in where everybody changes their

53:06

mind, but doesn't talk about it anymore. As

53:08

we see all the call with covid and

53:11

I think we're seeing something similar here. Yeah,

53:14

I know. I know what you mean. And then,

53:16

of course, in that moment of fear is when

53:18

powerful people in the government can do things that

53:20

they always wanted to do anyway. And

53:23

then because they have their excuse, you know, I'll tell you, I

53:25

was born in 1983. So

53:29

the war in Iraq, the Persian Gulf, the first war

53:31

in Iraq was 91. I believe so. I was eight

53:33

years old when it happened. And

53:36

I remember the babies and incubator

53:38

story from that. Like it made

53:40

its way down to us eight year olds. And

53:43

we were like, I do hear this thing. So

53:45

now I'm saying pulling babies out of incubators. And

53:47

it was just this. And you're like, wow, that's

53:49

so evil that I guess we got to support,

53:52

you know, whatever we got to go do to them to stop it. And

53:55

of course, people don't know the story. It was famously just made

53:57

up all made up. It doesn't even make sense. head

54:00

you're just like wait so he was like he

54:03

was invading a country and he

54:05

told his army we got to stop off

54:07

at the hospital and pull some babies out

54:09

of incubators before our next like just logistically

54:11

it doesn't even make sense you know what

54:13

I mean and then of course no the

54:16

whole thing is is just made up and

54:18

yeah the stuff with October 7th it almost

54:20

it it seemed unnecessary to

54:22

like add in these claims that

54:24

didn't actually happen you know what

54:26

I mean but it did it

54:29

also kind of felt like they're almost like uh they're

54:31

testing you to even because as

54:33

soon as you start going you

54:36

know it's like this tactic that is soon if a

54:38

bunch of innocent people get killed and then they go

54:40

uh oh and also they

54:42

cut off this one woman's head and we're playing

54:44

with it like a soccer ball and then they

54:46

raped all these women and you go and now

54:48

there's not actually evidence that that happened then they

54:51

can immediately go oh you're down playing the horrors

54:53

of October 7th it's like whoa whoa whoa hold

54:55

on let's just let's objectively discuss what

54:57

actually happened if you're going to make that claim

54:59

you got to have some evidence for it but

55:02

to your earlier point that I really do think

55:04

is is correct and maybe this is a little

55:06

bit hard to explain because when

55:08

we talk about the history we're talking about

55:10

how right like we said in 48

55:12

there was this huge ethnic cleansing um

55:14

of of three quarters of a million

55:17

uh people or so and

55:19

then of course you've had the

55:21

occupation since 1967 there've been uh military

55:23

campaigns over and over and over again

55:25

where people die and horrible things

55:27

happen but it is

55:30

also true that before Netanyahu

55:32

the IDF never um

55:36

never behaved in this manner and

55:39

they did they always had assassination campaigns

55:41

there there were have been since the

55:43

the occupation has been going on there

55:46

were always waves of um violence

55:49

and there's been violence on all

55:51

sides obviously a lot more Palestinians

55:53

killed than Israelis killed but when

55:55

there were when there was terrorism

55:57

under previous administrations

56:00

They would fight it with special operations.

56:02

They fight it with assassination campaigns

56:04

and things like that at least Minimizing

56:07

the amount of innocent people who

56:09

got who get killed and this

56:12

since October is just totally

56:14

different I mean, this is like there's the

56:16

Israel is never Conducted a

56:18

military campaign like this before where they

56:20

have I mean and forget even the

56:23

numbers, you know Whatever the latest

56:25

numbers are and the you know tens of

56:27

thousands of innocent people have been killed but

56:29

the amount of people who are going to

56:31

die as a result of this is Enormous.

56:35

I mean there's hundreds of thousands of

56:37

people who have like severe food insecurity

56:39

right now All of Gaza

56:41

City has been destroyed. I mean, it's

56:43

very unclear and it's not as

56:45

if this is stopping tomorrow But even

56:47

if it did stop tomorrow, it's very unclear

56:51

How many people are going to die as

56:53

a result of this? I mean you think

56:55

about the fact that there's almost no functioning

56:57

hospitals in in Gaza right now

56:59

And so how many deaths come off of

57:02

that? I mean, it's gonna the the numbers

57:04

are gonna be Truly horrific

57:06

when this is all over Absolutely.

57:09

I think it's going it's looking

57:11

like a terrible humanitarian catastrophe I will

57:13

say one more thing with relating

57:15

to October 7 It

57:19

seems to me the a lot of these stories

57:21

obviously turned out to be complete nonsense So the

57:23

40 beheaded babies was obviously nonsense from the beginning

57:25

because like you don't really have time to gather

57:27

40 babies put them together and

57:29

behead them which is a claim apparently and

57:33

Then it came out that there weren't even

57:35

40 babies dead in the entire thing There was

57:37

like one baby dead and they died by a

57:39

gunshot wound Through

57:41

the door by mistake not even targeted

57:43

deliberately but it seems to

57:46

me so many of these particular stories have

57:48

died and there is the very

57:50

simple idea that for Hamas the The

57:53

most valuable thing to do was to try and

57:55

get as many hostages as possible. And

57:58

so all of these stories,

58:00

the most horrific stories were all about the

58:02

burning, the idea that Hamas went into all

58:04

of these homes and started burning people alive,

58:07

which also makes very little sense

58:10

because they

58:14

didn't have an enormous amount of artillery

58:16

to create some

58:18

kind of massive inferno.

58:22

Somebody else did, of course, the IDF. And

58:24

that's effectively what happened. So in many

58:26

of these places, the Hamas

58:28

fighters were with civilians and

58:30

the Israeli military was responding.

58:33

And the response from the Israeli military, it's been

58:35

shown over and over and over and over again

58:37

that they just shelled indiscriminately. They wanted

58:40

to make sure to get the Hamas

58:42

terrorists and so they wanted to make

58:44

sure that nobody stayed alive and they

58:46

just killed all of the Israelis in

58:48

many of these cases. So more and more, we're

58:50

getting more and more of these documented cases, but

58:53

I mean, most people are in a blind rage,

58:55

still in a stage of blind rage, so for

58:57

them they're not able to

58:59

process this. But realistically, there is no

59:01

way that all of these cars in the music

59:03

festival got burned by Hamas. How do

59:05

you burn so many cars if you're out

59:08

there with a bunch of AK-47s or light weaponry? You

59:13

can't just burn them. And

59:15

we have all these stories

59:17

of the Israeli helicopters and

59:19

Israeli tanks shelling Israeli civilians.

59:23

When you put two and two together, it's very clear that

59:26

all of this burning stuff was

59:28

almost certainly the result of the

59:31

shelling by the IDF. And

59:33

so for me, I think Hamas's real

59:35

objective was to try and get as many hostages.

59:38

Israel's real objective was

59:40

always to try and capitalize

59:42

on this as much as possible to

59:44

create as much carnage as possible to

59:46

get as many Palestinians out

59:49

of Gaza or dead as much as

59:51

possible. Create a humanitarian disaster, create

59:53

a refugee crisis, and so

59:55

for all of that, you can see

59:57

the logic also behind this. in

1:00:00

discriminant shelling because the more indiscriminate

1:00:02

shelling means the more dead Israelis

1:00:05

which is going to help us

1:00:07

in our long-term goal

1:00:10

and the and

1:00:12

the real goal of course is to continue

1:00:14

to destroy Gaza and this is where you

1:00:17

know Hamas has always been

1:00:21

intransigent in a way that is

1:00:23

ultimately unfortunately beneficial

1:00:25

to Israel and

1:00:28

extremely destructive for the

1:00:31

Palestinian people because it gives them the

1:00:33

excuse it hides under the tunnels and

1:00:36

it gives the Israelis the excuse to

1:00:38

continue with their ethnic cleansing to the

1:00:40

destruction of the Gaza population hoping to

1:00:42

create a refugee crisis and

1:00:45

it's it's absolutely

1:00:47

horrible. Yeah well look I mean this is

1:00:49

what Netanyahu was

1:00:52

was arguing in

1:00:55

front of his fellow party members

1:00:57

which has

1:01:00

been widely reported in the the Times of

1:01:02

Israel and Horetz and even in the New

1:01:04

York Times that he was arguing for years

1:01:07

that we got to support Hamas because

1:01:09

they actually play right into our hands and

1:01:11

this is the bet they're they're the best

1:01:13

ones to have over there as the faces

1:01:15

so that we can guarantee the Palestinians never

1:01:17

get their independence because come on I could

1:01:19

go to everyone in Washington DC and say

1:01:22

well what do you expect me to sit

1:01:24

down with these guys and they'll go yeah

1:01:26

okay fair enough and so there is this weird

1:01:28

I mean I know you know you're an economist and

1:01:30

you wrote the Bitcoin Standard where you talk about some

1:01:32

of this stuff but

1:01:34

the horrible incentives of governments

1:01:37

and and you know look

1:01:39

you could see where 9-11

1:01:41

happening in America generated

1:01:46

enormous profits for

1:01:48

weapons companies and

1:01:51

I'm not saying that those way I'm not claiming

1:01:53

any type of like conspiracy or anything like that

1:01:55

I'm just saying if you look at the way

1:01:57

the incentives line up American

1:02:00

in Americans dying is

1:02:02

good for business. And

1:02:05

this is kind of the nature of

1:02:07

governments in general. It's really horrible. They

1:02:09

create these awful incentives where you would

1:02:12

think, you know, like in any market

1:02:14

condition, if your company

1:02:16

was responsible for the defense of

1:02:18

a group of people, you would

1:02:21

be heavily incentivized to not have

1:02:23

those people slaughtered. But

1:02:25

when you got government in the business of

1:02:27

it, it's actually the opposite. And

1:02:30

so, yeah, you and look, you see this.

1:02:32

There's like, as I was talking about before,

1:02:34

there's this weird relationship between, say, like the

1:02:37

terrorists and like the George

1:02:39

W. Bush administration, you know, and I say

1:02:41

terrorists in the conventional sense of anyone America

1:02:44

hates or whatever, you know, but that's like,

1:02:46

oh, if there's another if there's

1:02:48

another terrorist attack somewhere, George W. Bush and his

1:02:50

approval numbers go up because everyone's like, oh, we

1:02:53

want that guy to defend us from this. And

1:02:56

with Netanyahu, I mean, it's just so obvious.

1:02:58

The guy had hundreds of thousands of people

1:03:00

in the street protesting him. He was politically

1:03:03

done. And

1:03:06

now he's kind of through

1:03:08

through a monumental failure is

1:03:11

politically resurrected. So I mean, like you just

1:03:13

look at it and you go, OK, so

1:03:15

you're the longest serving prime minister in in

1:03:17

Israeli history. You

1:03:19

had the stated explicit policy

1:03:22

of propping up Hamas, and

1:03:25

then you failed to protect your

1:03:27

role against this threat

1:03:29

that you were helping to create. And

1:03:32

you're rewarded for that. For that,

1:03:34

you get to maintain power. And

1:03:37

when man, when you got incentives like that,

1:03:39

it's very difficult to get any type of

1:03:41

positive outcome. Yeah, absolutely.

1:03:43

And I think there is that there

1:03:46

is a case. I mean, if you wanted to

1:03:48

get to the sort of similar conspiratorial position from

1:03:50

the kind of Palestinian side, you'd

1:03:53

see a similar mirror image

1:03:55

wherein in order

1:03:57

to be the leadership of Hamas, the leadership of

1:03:59

the resistance. resistance, you take on

1:04:02

that mantle and you

1:04:04

get to use that and you

1:04:08

get to produce the terrorism that is

1:04:10

beneficial for the Israelis. So therefore, you

1:04:13

can see that perhaps in some of the motivation

1:04:15

for October 7. I mean it is something that

1:04:17

is completely callous in the – toward

1:04:20

the lives of Palestinians and

1:04:25

it's just a terrible

1:04:27

set of incentives probably

1:04:29

for Hamas because it doesn't

1:04:31

even – I mean you

1:04:33

could say on one level that this is Iran. Some

1:04:36

people say that claim. I don't

1:04:38

have an idea personally but it

1:04:40

seems that this was motivated

1:04:44

by Hamas themselves. Iran doesn't

1:04:46

seem to have had a lot of knowledge in it or

1:04:49

at least to the extent of it because

1:04:52

it doesn't look like Iran was particularly

1:04:54

excited about starting a war in this

1:04:56

way and it doesn't look

1:04:58

like it was in their interest for this thing to start.

1:05:00

So Hamas effectively – I mean

1:05:03

trying to explain their incentive by just being

1:05:05

Iran in stooges, I find that difficult to

1:05:07

believe because it's not – doesn't

1:05:09

look to me like it has been in Iran's interest to

1:05:12

start this particular war. And

1:05:16

it seems to me like there is that

1:05:18

negative incentive just like with the

1:05:21

Israeli side they need to escalate in order for

1:05:23

– to stay in power. I think

1:05:25

you see something similar in the case of Hamas

1:05:27

and it's absolutely terrible and I

1:05:29

think the cost in

1:05:31

terms of humans is just incalculable. Yeah,

1:05:34

no that's for sure. Alright

1:05:36

so – I should say though we should get

1:05:39

back to – you said this wasn't going to be a

1:05:41

Bitcoin podcast but I'm not going to disappoint your Bitcoin. Okay

1:05:43

there you go. Good, good. Just like

1:05:45

people have. Because really Bitcoin does fix this I

1:05:47

guess in some level. Bitcoin really could

1:05:49

have fixed this if Bitcoin was invented like maybe 10, 20 years

1:05:51

earlier at least, who

1:05:53

knows. But ultimately I

1:05:55

mean this insane

1:05:57

military campaign that they've launched – is

1:06:00

an extremely expensive war. You could have

1:06:02

used that amount of firepower to occupy

1:06:04

a much larger country, but

1:06:07

they deliberately tried

1:06:09

to destroy as many buildings of Gaza

1:06:11

as possible, and they've been systematic in

1:06:14

the destruction. This is an enormous, enormous,

1:06:16

enormous amount of weaponry, and

1:06:18

it would not have been possible without US

1:06:20

support, and it would not have been

1:06:23

possible without the US money

1:06:25

printer, which makes all horrible things on

1:06:27

Earth possible, because it provides the horrible

1:06:29

people who do horrible things access to

1:06:31

a printer that allows them to externalize

1:06:33

the cost of this to everybody else.

1:06:36

And really, ultimately, the only way to fix

1:06:38

this is Bitcoin, and it's a doubly significant

1:06:41

issue in the case of Palestine,

1:06:43

because ultimately, the

1:06:45

entire Balfour Declaration, the Zionist

1:06:47

movement really only got going

1:06:50

when they went from a bunch of weird socialist

1:06:54

Eastern Europeans to having

1:06:56

the British government promise Lord

1:06:59

Rothschild, one of the richest people in the world, that

1:07:02

they would work toward delivering this. And why did they

1:07:04

do that? They did that in World War One in

1:07:06

1917, they

1:07:08

were losing the war, and they needed the Americans

1:07:10

to get into the war. And so this was

1:07:12

kind of part of the deal for helping

1:07:15

America get into the war. And we,

1:07:17

of course, for your

1:07:19

American listeners, will probably appreciate how much of a

1:07:21

horrible decision this was for America. Really,

1:07:26

arguably, I mean, that period, of course, the establishment

1:07:28

of the Federal Reserve was

1:07:30

instrumental in that. So World

1:07:32

War One becomes the biggest catastrophe

1:07:35

in human history, because

1:07:37

it was the it

1:07:40

coincided with the creation of the money printer or the

1:07:42

money printers, but turned World War

1:07:44

One into this enormous war. In the

1:07:46

European Wars, where nothing like World War

1:07:48

One before World War One, there were

1:07:50

limited conflicts that usually took place between

1:07:53

militaries in battlefields. And then

1:07:55

World War One comes along, and these militaries

1:07:58

now have a money printer. Everybody. is

1:08:01

getting robbed day in and day out into

1:08:03

the war effort. An entire country falls apart.

1:08:05

In Britain, I've discussed this in my second

1:08:07

book, The Theathed Standard. Britain

1:08:09

got into World War I. When

1:08:13

they considered, when they decided to get in,

1:08:15

they released a bond sale. They sold bonds

1:08:17

in 1915, I think it was, and

1:08:21

in, or 14, I forget exactly, but only a

1:08:23

third of those bonds were picked up on the

1:08:25

market. And this is really the greatest thing that

1:08:27

British people ever did. They only bought a third

1:08:30

of their government's money because they

1:08:32

realized, why the hell should we get involved in a

1:08:34

war between Serbia and Austria and all of these strange

1:08:36

European people? Our

1:08:38

interest is in the empire. It has nothing to do with

1:08:40

this. So they had no reason

1:08:42

to get involved. They didn't buy the bonds.

1:08:45

The Central Bank of England went and bought

1:08:47

these bonds using a fake

1:08:49

line of credit given to two of its employees

1:08:52

who bought the bonds in their own private

1:08:54

name. And then the Financial Times, the shitcoin

1:08:56

media of the day, went

1:08:59

and published how successful the bond offering was

1:09:01

and that everybody's getting ready for a war

1:09:03

and we're going to win this war and

1:09:05

everything's going to be great and dandy. So

1:09:08

of course, they get into the war with fake

1:09:10

printed money. They have to suspend the gold standard

1:09:13

and they get dragged into an endless

1:09:15

war with a whole bunch of stupid

1:09:17

governments who also thought

1:09:20

their magic money printer could allow

1:09:22

them to fight until victory. And

1:09:24

they were all just bogged down and then they needed the Americans to come in.

1:09:27

And since then, the world has never gone back

1:09:29

on sound money and

1:09:31

we've had conflict in the Middle East.

1:09:35

So it's a very sad situation

1:09:37

what is going on, but it's still – it

1:09:40

almost feels cruel to be bringing

1:09:42

this back to Bitcoin. It's still honestly and

1:09:44

genuinely believe this is ultimately a monetary phenomenon,

1:09:46

this notion. Because ultimately, this is a market

1:09:48

distortion. You're distorting the market for land in

1:09:50

Palestine, as we discussed earlier, by

1:09:52

preventing Palestinians from owning land in

1:09:55

all kinds of military means and then making

1:09:57

the land available for Jews from all

1:09:59

over the world. This kind of market distortion

1:10:01

is very expensive. How do you maintain that? Have

1:10:04

a bunch of governments who print a bunch of money

1:10:06

to finance a bunch of criminal bullshit. Take

1:10:08

out the government's money printer and you get rid

1:10:11

of a lot of that. We're not necessarily going

1:10:13

to have utopia the next day, but

1:10:15

people who make the utopia argument are exactly like

1:10:17

saying, you know, fixing sewage in your house is

1:10:19

going to stop your house from having shit all

1:10:21

over it. That is not going to

1:10:23

fix your relationship with your wife. Maybe might not

1:10:25

fix everything in your life and that might make

1:10:28

you a billionaire, but you're going to get shit out

1:10:30

of your house and getting this shit

1:10:32

of the money printer out of the

1:10:35

market for real estate in Palestine,

1:10:37

I think it would be the first

1:10:40

step toward solving this. Yeah,

1:10:42

you know, at the

1:10:44

end of Daryl Cooper's

1:10:47

podcast series, he has

1:10:49

this little chunk and

1:10:51

it's funny because Daryl himself is like a

1:10:53

real right winger. Like he's not some lefty

1:10:56

hippy or something like that. You know what

1:10:58

I mean? But he goes

1:11:00

off on this whole thing about how

1:11:03

far a recognition

1:11:05

and an apology can go

1:11:08

and how much that it's like, you know, like, look,

1:11:10

even say if we were talking about how

1:11:13

the, you know, the U.S.

1:11:16

got land from the Native Americans or

1:11:18

how much Native Americans were mistreated or

1:11:20

something like that. The

1:11:22

conclusion isn't necessarily that like, oh, we should

1:11:24

give all the land back to the Native

1:11:26

Americans. But your conclusion is certainly like, oh,

1:11:28

we should recognize that some things that were

1:11:30

pretty messed up happened. And for any Native

1:11:32

Americans who are still around, they ought to

1:11:34

have their rights protected and they ought to

1:11:36

have full, you know, citizenship and full rights

1:11:38

as every other American has. And

1:11:41

it's easy to kind of get caught up in

1:11:43

the idea that like, oh man,

1:11:45

it's just these, there's

1:11:48

just been so many atrocities since

1:11:51

the creation of the state of Israel and

1:11:54

things have been so bad and there's been

1:11:56

so much violence and that, you know, it's

1:11:58

almost like, well, we're just doomed. for

1:12:00

these people to hate each other forever. But

1:12:02

you know, I'll tell you, you

1:12:04

know, I mean, it's like

1:12:06

I went to, last

1:12:09

year I went to London and

1:12:12

did comedy shows in London, and then I

1:12:14

jumped on a flight, like a half hour

1:12:16

flight, and went and did

1:12:18

comedy shows in Ireland. And like, they're

1:12:21

right next to each other, you know?

1:12:23

And like, they're fine. And they

1:12:25

were fighting for so long, and

1:12:28

so many atrocities. You know, like France and Germany

1:12:30

are like real close. They're just right there, you

1:12:32

know? And like, they went to, they went, you

1:12:34

know, in World War I and World War II,

1:12:37

and the, you know, and there's like all of

1:12:39

these countries, like there's areas

1:12:41

where groups of people did horrific things to

1:12:45

each other, and then

1:12:47

moved past it and found peace. And

1:12:50

it does- And how did they do that

1:12:52

with property rights? Yes, exactly. They basically stopped

1:12:54

imposing on each other. And the truth is

1:12:56

that I still, at least I hold out

1:12:59

hope that like, yeah,

1:13:01

like you actually, if you could

1:13:03

end this war and just end

1:13:05

the occupations, and just come to

1:13:07

some type of reasonable deal, I

1:13:09

don't think that, I

1:13:11

don't think either side is gonna get

1:13:14

from the river to the sea. I

1:13:16

know that's what the Likud party wants,

1:13:18

and I know that's what some Palestinians

1:13:20

want. I don't think that's going to

1:13:22

happen. But

1:13:24

there really could just be

1:13:26

like a peace agreement, not

1:13:29

like the BS at Camp David or something like

1:13:31

that. But there could be a real peace agreement

1:13:33

where like you could, people

1:13:35

could just stop doing this, and things

1:13:37

would be much better. Yeah,

1:13:41

I mean, my way of

1:13:43

solving this is give both sides from the

1:13:45

river to the sea. Right. And

1:13:47

give everybody from the river to the sea that just have

1:13:49

a free market and land where anybody can own land. And

1:13:51

then all the world's Jews

1:13:55

can just go and buy land, all the

1:13:57

world's Arabs, Muslims, Christians can buy land there.

1:14:00

And that's it. And it's

1:14:02

really not that complicated. It's

1:14:04

what happens in the vast

1:14:06

majority of the world. And

1:14:08

the difference in Palestine is

1:14:11

ultimately that we've

1:14:13

never witnessed a situation that

1:14:15

allows Palestinians to just move on. There was never been

1:14:17

a situation where they just said, all right, fine. Listen,

1:14:19

we won the war. We're going to do this thing

1:14:21

and then you're going to get that piece of land

1:14:23

and that's yours. And it's done. This

1:14:26

never happens basically from 1948. And it's never

1:14:28

happened in the form of, OK, well,

1:14:30

we kicked out a bunch of Palestinians. Now

1:14:33

let's work with the remaining Palestinians and have

1:14:35

a country together that worked in 1948 for the

1:14:37

Palestinians in 1948. And that's kind of

1:14:40

why they are generally getting

1:14:42

along with the Israeli society because

1:14:44

they relatively live

1:14:46

off a little bit better. But still, you know,

1:14:49

their property rights are violated. So a lot of

1:14:51

these Palestinians inside Israel who

1:14:53

are Israeli citizens are refugees because

1:14:55

their villages were some of the villages that were destroyed.

1:14:57

Some of them ran away from their

1:14:59

villages and went to some of the larger

1:15:02

cities and became Israeli citizens. But they can't

1:15:04

go back to their villages. Their villages are

1:15:06

still declared military zones. Most of

1:15:08

these villages have been demolished. I mean, just

1:15:10

imagine the amount of logistics it takes

1:15:12

in 1949, 1950, 51 to muster enough equipment to go

1:15:14

and demolish a village. But

1:15:22

that's exactly what they did to make sure that

1:15:24

these villages didn't happen so that Israel could like

1:15:27

control all the strategic area that it

1:15:29

could control specifically. So

1:15:31

they kept as few

1:15:33

Arabs as they could. This couldn't work

1:15:36

when they took over the West Bank in Gaza. So

1:15:40

we see a return to the same kind of Zionism

1:15:43

of the formative years of Israel, which

1:15:45

was heavily, heavily influenced by the Zionism

1:15:47

of Vladimir Yabotinsky. And

1:15:51

these Zionists who were

1:15:53

very clear from day one that, look, we need to build

1:15:55

an iron wall, colonize as much

1:15:57

land as we can, kill locals and move

1:15:59

the wall. and just recapture

1:16:02

as much of the land of Israel as we

1:16:04

possibly could. And in their

1:16:06

mind, look, there is no limit with the

1:16:08

West Bank and Gaza. I mean, they openly

1:16:10

talk about Lebanon, they openly talk about some

1:16:13

of them, talk about from the Euphrates to the

1:16:15

Nile, which is what the Bible mentions, which

1:16:18

many people claim, and I think with probably

1:16:21

good evidence, that these are

1:16:23

what the two blue lines in the flag

1:16:25

of the State of Israel represent, the Nile

1:16:27

and the Euphrates. And

1:16:30

there's definitely

1:16:32

a lot of Israelis who just see that. And many of them

1:16:34

mention it, that we need to know, we need to just continue

1:16:36

to expand and greater Israel will come about.

1:16:39

So this is what we're dealing with. We're dealing with a situation

1:16:41

where people just don't have, we're

1:16:43

dealing with an ideology that doesn't have

1:16:45

a respect for property rights because it

1:16:47

believes in religious stories overriding

1:16:50

local property rights. So it doesn't matter that

1:16:52

they went to Palestine, they accepted the property

1:16:54

system of Palestinians. So they bought land from

1:16:56

Palestinians, but they couldn't buy all the land.

1:16:58

You can't just buy a country. You buy

1:17:00

5% of the country over 40 years

1:17:02

if you've got the Rothschilds and the British Empire,

1:17:05

helping you manage 5%. But

1:17:08

you can't really buy the entire thing.

1:17:10

And so they knew that they had

1:17:12

to resort to violence, and they did

1:17:14

resort to violence. But we've always

1:17:16

had this idea that you can't

1:17:18

have property rights independently of ethnicity. And

1:17:20

I think this is what Israel apologists miss. Many

1:17:23

of them will tell you this. They

1:17:25

make this what I believe is an extremely wrong argument,

1:17:28

which is this idea that, well, this is the reality

1:17:30

of the world. The world is always about people

1:17:33

with guns, kill other people, and that's

1:17:35

how it happens. Well, no,

1:17:37

this is the reality of the jungle. And to the

1:17:39

extent that we have a world, to the extent that

1:17:42

we have a civilization, and I discussed this in depth

1:17:44

in my third book, Principles of Economics, the

1:17:46

extent to which we are able to move

1:17:48

away from jungles and

1:17:51

move away from being monkeys in the jungle, slinging our

1:17:53

own feces at each other, is our

1:17:55

ability to get rid of

1:17:58

that idea that we need to fight over everything. accept

1:18:00

the principle of property right and accept that

1:18:02

you have your own stuff, I have my

1:18:04

own stuff and then you get to work

1:18:06

on making your stuff better and I get

1:18:08

to work on making my things better so

1:18:10

I have better home, better land, better tools,

1:18:12

higher productivity and that's what takes us out

1:18:14

of the jungle and allows us to build

1:18:16

civilization. So no, we don't fight. This is

1:18:18

the exception. This is us going back to

1:18:20

the jungle and this notion that you're just

1:18:22

going to think, you know, this modern internet

1:18:25

think boy notion that we're just going to

1:18:27

sit here enjoying all of the benefits of

1:18:29

civilization that make these laptops and internet possible

1:18:31

in the first place and instead

1:18:33

of saying no, no, no, no, actually the reality of

1:18:35

the world is that we're all just a bunch of

1:18:37

violent animals fighting each other. No, that's not

1:18:39

why you have property right in your house.

1:18:41

You don't wake up every morning and wrestle

1:18:43

all pretenders to property in your house. It's

1:18:46

well accepted in this country that everybody has a property

1:18:48

right and this is really the difference with Native Americans.

1:18:50

Native Americans today in the US can own property. That's

1:18:54

not the case for Palestinians. This is really

1:18:56

what it comes down to and also I

1:18:58

think interestingly, this

1:19:00

is this I think would probably anger a lot of

1:19:03

lefties but the reality of the matter is that you

1:19:05

can't really just say Israel is a colonialist project. You

1:19:07

can't really compare it to a lot

1:19:09

of the world's colonialist projects and the meaning

1:19:11

of colonialism and you know today obviously people

1:19:13

overplay this term colonialism to refer to everything

1:19:16

just like racism and all of these

1:19:18

other isms that are used by leftist

1:19:20

opportunists but realistically

1:19:24

there's a huge difference. White Europeans who

1:19:26

showed up in North America for

1:19:30

the most part did not deal with a

1:19:32

system of private property that existed which

1:19:34

in the case of Palestine existed for 1300 years. They

1:19:38

went into a land in which you had

1:19:40

nomadic tribes that primarily moved around. If you

1:19:42

settled an area that was unsettled, I

1:19:44

don't see anything wrong with that. I don't

1:19:46

see anything wrong about white people in general

1:19:49

that makes them guilty of this because for

1:19:51

me a Native American

1:19:54

or a white person settling an area and fencing

1:19:56

it off and homesteading it is legitimate for anybody.

1:19:58

Now, of course, some of these. white

1:20:00

settlers did horrible things, but

1:20:03

this is still very distinct from what's going

1:20:05

on in Palestine. What's going on in Palestine is

1:20:08

we've had a property rights system for 1,300 years

1:20:10

and it's a very well-respected property rights system that

1:20:12

allows anybody from any ethnicity or race or religion

1:20:15

to buy land and trade it and

1:20:17

now that's been replaced by a system

1:20:19

where a military dictatorship essentially allocates

1:20:21

that land to an agency that

1:20:24

decides to allocate it to people

1:20:26

from one ethnicity only. You think

1:20:28

about other colonialism like the British

1:20:30

colonialist project in India never even

1:20:32

in my mind conceivably imagined that we

1:20:34

would get rid of Indians and move British people to take

1:20:36

over India. That was as far as I

1:20:39

know I'd never heard of anybody who brought that up and

1:20:41

in for the most part you know British people

1:20:43

had no interest in colonizing Egypt

1:20:46

in the same way that Israelis are colonizing Palestine. In

1:20:48

Palestine the idea is we need to get rid of these

1:20:50

people. In Egypt, in

1:20:53

Algeria, a lot of the

1:20:56

traditional property rights system that existed could

1:20:58

survive through colonialism. So the colonialists

1:21:01

took over the government of the

1:21:03

situation but they still administered property

1:21:05

and the

1:21:07

legitimacy of the existing property rights system

1:21:09

is what gives any semblance of legitimacy

1:21:12

to the government. The fact that this

1:21:14

government is out there helping protect your

1:21:16

right of property which everybody in society

1:21:18

accepts is what allows you to

1:21:21

accept the idea that maybe this government thing

1:21:23

is legitimate but if the entire purpose of

1:21:25

government is to destroy

1:21:27

the existing system of property rights

1:21:30

and turn it into some socialist

1:21:33

hellhole religious ethnobased system

1:21:38

it's very difficult to argue that that is the good

1:21:40

side in a conflict. Yeah I think

1:21:42

you make a very compelling point and

1:21:44

I do think you're right that it

1:21:46

is in a different category than traditional

1:21:48

colonialism. Alright safe we're at a time

1:21:50

and I gotta go thank you so

1:21:52

much for coming on I really appreciated

1:21:55

it and it was great to hear

1:21:57

your perspective let my audience know where

1:21:59

they can go. go read your

1:22:01

great books or listen to your podcast or any of that

1:22:03

stuff. So my website is

1:22:05

safe at dean.com. And

1:22:10

then add that same handle on Twitter. And

1:22:13

also you can you

1:22:15

can also find my books on Amazon, the

1:22:17

Bitcoin standard, the Fiat standard and the principles

1:22:19

of economics. I highly,

1:22:21

highly recommend the Bitcoin

1:22:23

standard was excellent. I really enjoyed reading it. I

1:22:25

got to, I got to read the other two,

1:22:27

but I really did enjoy my podcast. You guys

1:22:30

listened to podcasts. You might like the business standard

1:22:32

podcast, one episode a week, interesting

1:22:34

stuff on the intersection of Bitcoin, Palestine,

1:22:37

nutrition, climate change, all kinds

1:22:39

of heretic thoughts. Very

1:22:42

good. That's that's what our audience is into. All right. Well,

1:22:45

thank you very much, safe. And thank you everybody for listening. Catch

1:22:47

you next time.