Episode Transcript
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0:28
Hello , today I have with
0:30
me Taylor Nosacara . Taylor
0:33
is a prenatal coach , dula
0:35
a motherhood coach , a catering
0:38
chef and the host of the podcast
0:40
Driver's Seat Moms . She
0:43
is a mother of three kids under
0:45
six years old , with two on the way
0:47
, yep twins , second
0:49
set of twins . Her mission
0:51
is to help moms let go of the shoulds and
0:54
supposed tos surrounding birth and motherhood
0:56
so they can do pregnancy , birth
0:58
and motherhood their way . Today
1:01
she's here to share her birth stories and
1:03
how she balances career and motherhood . Taylor
1:06
welcome and thank you so much for joining
1:08
me .
1:09
Thank you for having me . I'm excited .
1:11
Yeah , I feel like you have a lot that
1:14
you can share with my listeners and
1:16
I'm really excited to hear about your birth
1:18
stories .
1:19
Yeah , so , gosh , it's
1:21
crazy to think back to the first one because that felt
1:23
like so long ago now . So my oldest son
1:26
is five and a half and
1:28
then I have twin boys that are two
1:31
and a half . So I
1:33
will tell both of their stories
1:35
and try not to make them take
1:37
forever , because I feel like I could tell the four
1:39
hour version or I could tell the 20 minute version
1:41
. So my first
1:43
son I had . So , yes
1:45
, I am a prenatal coach and a birth Dula . I
1:47
wasn't prior to my first son
1:49
being born , but I did have some prior
1:52
knowledge . So my mom was
1:54
a Dula for a little bit and a childbirth
1:56
educator , and so I
1:58
had a level of awareness prior
2:01
to getting pregnant
2:03
that there's options
2:05
and there's things to research
2:07
. And I feel like I went into that pregnancy
2:10
a little bit of a step ahead than
2:12
some moms , just in the sense of most
2:14
moms are like I have no idea what I don't know , whereas
2:16
I kind of knew what I didn't know
2:18
. But I did , I still didn't know it . So
2:22
when I got pregnant it
2:24
happened a lot faster than we anticipated
2:26
. We were not trying , not not
2:28
trying , and just we're like we'll start trying
2:31
in August and I think I was pregnant by July
2:33
. So I immediately
2:36
wanted to know everything about
2:38
everything , and at the time
2:40
I did not even know how to listen
2:42
to a podcast , but I'd heard of them . This
2:44
was in 2017 . So I was like kind
2:46
of late to the podcast game and
2:49
I googled how
2:51
do I listen to a podcast ? And
2:54
then I just started binging them and
2:56
learning everything about everything , and
2:58
as I was doing so , I realized
3:01
that midwifery care
3:03
was more the route that I wanted to go , and
3:05
there's one birth center in the
3:07
city where I lived there's actually two , but they
3:09
were it was two locations of the same birth
3:11
center and so
3:14
that's what I chose . I was
3:16
doing all of my prenatal care through the birth
3:18
center , with three midwives that rotate
3:21
, and I was
3:23
really excited about that . I ended
3:25
up hiring a doula who was a
3:27
friend of my mom's , who was also
3:30
a massage therapist , and
3:32
she trained with the doula
3:34
who was my mom's doula for my younger sisters
3:37
. So we kind of knew her already and
3:39
I was feeling really good
3:41
. I mean , the pregnancy was fairly easy
3:44
. I feel like I got really lucky in that regard
3:46
. I was teaching yoga at the time , so
3:48
I taught yoga throughout my whole pregnancy . I
3:50
did power yoga throughout my whole pregnancy
3:53
and then 39
3:55
ish weeks rolls around
3:58
and at the birth center they
4:00
have a protocol in place where
4:02
you cannot well , you cannot
4:04
deliver there if you're prior
4:06
to 37 weeks or past 42
4:09
weeks . So you know
4:11
, 39 , 40 weeks rolls around
4:14
and I'm starting to
4:16
get nervous that I'm not
4:18
going to be able to deliver at the birth
4:20
center . I knew that first
4:22
time moms typically go past
4:24
40 weeks . Due dates are guest dates
4:26
. I know those things , but still
4:29
, according to their protocols , I
4:32
was starting to get nervous . So at
4:34
41 weeks
4:36
we started doing all
4:39
the things to push my
4:41
body into labor and
4:43
it was extremely
4:47
stressful . I
4:49
look back on that week and when
4:51
I think about things that I would change
4:53
about my birth , it really is that
4:56
week and that stress , and
4:58
I don't know that
5:00
I would necessarily change that part in retrospect
5:03
, because the rule was the rule at the
5:05
birth center . But I do wish
5:07
I would have explored more options
5:09
outside of just simply , while
5:12
we're kicking you out of our care , you have to have a hospital
5:14
birth , which is not really what I wanted . So
5:17
we , like I said , did
5:19
all the things I did castor
5:22
oil , I think twice I
5:24
was on the breast pump a lot
5:26
. I had six
5:29
Foley bulb attempts , I
5:32
want to say in five days , and
5:35
so I did two tries in one
5:37
day . I was also in castor
5:39
oil that day , so it was just extremely uncomfortable
5:41
and I did all
5:44
of those things not so
5:46
much from like an evidence based place
5:48
of really
5:50
wanting to be done , being pregnant
5:52
, or feeling like my baby was not safe
5:54
or I was unhealthy , but really from this place
5:58
of like I want to have this baby at the birth center
6:00
, and ultimately
6:02
, none of it worked . None of it worked . My body
6:04
was not ready and at
6:07
41 and
6:09
six we made the call
6:11
to transfer because I wasn't in labor
6:13
yet , so that they typically
6:16
will transfer you with a midwife that they
6:18
have at the birth center and she has privileges
6:20
at the hospital . Well , she was unavailable
6:23
, and so they gave me two options
6:25
. You can transfer to hospital A and just
6:27
get whoever's on call , or
6:29
you can transfer to hospital B , which was
6:31
the option that I liked , less as far
6:34
as hospital goes , but
6:36
with an OB who is
6:39
very midwife like and
6:41
everybody loves her . She's great
6:43
. And so I
6:46
went ahead and chose that . It was a teaching
6:48
hospital , which I didn't love the idea of
6:50
like having students around and but
6:53
I was like , but I'll go for her because everybody
6:55
loves her . So I
6:57
went in at 10 o'clock
7:00
PM , right exactly
7:02
at 42 weeks , I think yeah , it
7:04
would have been 42 weeks and
7:07
they gave me the impression that I was
7:09
going to meet the doctor that night
7:11
. Well , she wasn't there and they're like
7:13
, oh well , we met , for teen was here and
7:15
I was like , oh well , that's not the same thing . So
7:18
I call my midwives , crying
7:20
, like on the emergency line . I'm like
7:22
this isn't what I thought it was going to be
7:24
. I felt like from the second I walked in
7:26
the door I had to become
7:29
in like defense mode , which was not
7:31
what I wanted , and that was really tough
7:33
because a lot of the things in my birth
7:36
plan I knew I wasn't
7:38
going to have to really ask for or
7:40
advocate for in the birth center , but they were
7:43
things that were not standard in
7:45
this hospital , which
7:47
is part of why I didn't choose that hospital
7:50
to begin with . Even simple things
7:52
, little things , were
7:54
getting under my skin which , looking
7:57
back , I wish I wouldn't have let
7:59
them , but I was just kind of angry
8:01
to have to be there and so
8:04
I wasn't necessarily making
8:06
friends and finally
8:08
got settled . They told me I was going to meet
8:11
the doctor in the morning . I
8:13
got a cervical ripener . I
8:15
got a servidil , which I had to fight
8:17
for because they
8:20
really , really wanted me to
8:22
start with cytotech and I really
8:24
did not want to . So finally
8:27
got them to order the servidil and got
8:29
the servidil . And my
8:32
night nurse was absolutely phenomenal
8:34
. She was so sweet and gentle
8:36
and let me sleep
8:38
and came in so quietly and she was like
8:45
okay , this is going to be okay . The
8:47
next day at around 9am
8:49
I met the doctor , loved her
8:51
Great first impression , made
8:54
me feel so good about things . She's
8:57
like , yeah , go ahead and eat , do your
8:59
thing . Like I have clinic
9:01
, I'll come back and check in . If
9:03
you need anything , call me . And so
9:05
things were kind of moving
9:07
and grooving along . Contractions
9:10
weren't really happening for me . So
9:13
ultimately we did choose
9:16
to move to adding in pitocin
9:18
to the mix because I wasn't
9:20
having contractions and I will say
9:22
too , I was
9:25
not super comfortable
9:27
at the time , going
9:30
too much past 42 weeks . So
9:32
, as a lot of you
9:35
know , as you know , and some
9:37
of you listening might know that risks
9:39
do increase as you go further
9:42
past 42 weeks
9:44
and as a first time mom I wasn't
9:46
really comfortable with the risks
9:48
of going past 42 weeks , so
9:50
that was also part of my motivation
9:52
to get things going . I
9:55
do wish retrospectively , I would have learned
9:57
a little bit more about that actual risk
9:59
and how that risk pertained
10:02
to me specifically and what the actual numbers
10:04
were . Maybe I would have felt a little bit more
10:06
comfortable with that risk , but at the
10:08
time I wasn't , and so we
10:12
started pitocin and it
10:15
just wasn't doing anything . I think we
10:17
ended up cranking it all the way up and
10:20
ultimately throughout
10:23
that next day . So this is
10:25
Friday . It was an
10:27
emotional roller coaster . I was
10:30
fine and then I
10:32
would have an emotional breakdown and
10:35
it felt like throughout the
10:37
course of the day my
10:39
doctor got less
10:41
and less inviting
10:43
, like less patient , less
10:46
. The things that I felt
10:48
about her when I first met her that morning
10:50
kind of started to fade
10:52
throughout the day and it
10:55
sucked because everybody told me she's
10:57
very midwife , like she's not going
10:59
to push interventions on you , she's the
11:02
most natural OB in the
11:04
city . And as
11:06
the day progressed I was just starting to
11:08
feel like that was not the case
11:10
, she
12:56
really wanted to break my water because
12:58
she wanted to put an internal monitor
13:00
on because the pitocin was so
13:02
high . So we wanted to make sure that my contractions
13:05
were doing what they were supposed to do
13:08
and baby was tolerating them Okay
13:10
. So eventually
13:12
I think that was like in the evening , friday
13:14
evening I finally
13:16
allowed her to break my water and
13:19
I vividly remember a conversation
13:21
that just
13:25
stands out as being one
13:27
of the traumatic parts of
13:29
my birth experience , which
13:31
was her asking
13:34
me like we sat down
13:36
by the window I remember it so
13:38
vividly my husband was sitting there and my
13:40
mom and Dula I'm pretty sure we're like across the room
13:42
and she's like well , what's your end
13:45
game ? And I
13:47
was just so shook by that question
13:49
. I was like what do you mean ? Like
13:52
my end game is to have a baby . I don't understand
13:54
the question . And at
13:56
the time I was still
13:59
looking great , my blood pressure was good , like
14:01
I was handling things fine and my baby's
14:03
heart rate was fine , like everything
14:06
was fine . So I
14:08
was very confused by this . And
14:11
when my husband
14:13
kind of started to side with
14:15
her of like well , she just wants to know
14:17
, like what's the plan , what's the end game , and
14:19
I was like I don't know , be here
14:21
for four days until I have a baby . If I
14:23
have to , if I'm fine and my baby's
14:26
fine , I will do this as long as it takes
14:28
, and I don't think she likes that answer
14:30
. And so
14:32
finally I got my husband to understand
14:35
where I was coming from and
14:37
all in all we stopped
14:39
pitocin , I wanna say , because
14:41
we had cranked it up all the way , broke
14:44
my water , put the internal monitor in
14:46
and then restarted the pitocin . And
14:48
the timeline gets a little fuzzy for me
14:50
, but thankfully
14:52
my mom and my doula were there and they were helping
14:54
me through all this emotional stuff . I don't know what I would
14:56
have done without them and my husband . But
14:58
the next step after that was
15:01
things were getting just
15:04
really , really hard . It's weird because I kind
15:07
of blacked this part out and I had
15:09
to actually like ask a lot
15:11
of family and friends , the people that were there
15:13
, what happened during this
15:15
time , because I truly don't remember
15:17
. But eventually I think
15:19
I ended up asking
15:22
for a C-section because I
15:24
was so . I know I was physically
15:26
tired , I know I'm sure the pitocin
15:29
contractions were getting to me , but
15:31
I kind of don't even remember that , I
15:33
just remember the emotional pressure of I
15:35
just don't wanna be here . I feel like
15:37
it's an uphill battle and feel like I'm having
15:39
to advocate for everything that I want . I
15:42
don't wanna be here and I just
15:44
want it to be done , and my
15:46
doula recommended that
15:49
I get an epidural so that I could
15:51
just take it . So after
15:53
going in the bathroom and crying
15:55
and talking to my husband about it because
15:57
I really didn't want a
16:00
medicated birth I ultimately was
16:02
like okay , yes , like that's probably
16:04
better than just opting for a C-section at this
16:06
time . Because one thing I guess I haven't mentioned
16:08
is at the time I wasn't
16:10
progressing very much . My contractions were happening
16:13
, but I think 24
16:15
or more hours in I was still
16:17
only at like a five , and
16:19
I think I had been a five for
16:21
the last 12 hours
16:24
or something . I just was not progressing
16:26
. Knowing what I know now , I'm like
16:28
baby was probably in a funky
16:30
position . I probably should have done some
16:32
spinning babies , tried some different positions
16:34
, but at the time I think I just
16:37
was in like advocacy mode I
16:39
don't even know how to explain it and so
16:41
I got the epidural and
16:43
it was pretty early
16:45
Saturday morning and I had fallen asleep
16:48
finally and the
16:50
nurse came in and I loved
16:52
my daytime nurses that
16:54
day as well . They came in and
16:56
I could hear them through my sleep , kind
16:59
of talking to my mom , saying baby's
17:01
heart rate looks great , contraction pattern
17:04
looks great . You know now that we've bumped
17:06
the toast and back up , everything's looking great
17:08
. And they left the
17:10
room and at the time my doula had gone home
17:12
to sleep and my husband was in
17:15
the car sleeping , I think like
17:17
in the parking garage . And then
17:19
my doctor walks in and she
17:21
my mom is sitting next to the bed , on the
17:23
other side of the bed and she very gently
17:26
like squats by me and quietly
17:29
is like wakes me up from
17:31
this , like dead sleep nap that
17:33
I so desperately needed
17:36
. So that was like first strike
17:38
, don't wake me up . And
17:40
she says to me so
17:43
the contractions aren't really
17:45
doing what we want them to do , they're
17:47
not really that effective , so
17:50
we really need to think about
17:52
a C-section at this point . And this
17:54
was around noon on Saturday morning
17:56
and had she said that
17:58
and the nurses not just said what they said
18:00
, I probably would have gotten a C-section
18:03
, to be completely honest , and in
18:05
that moment of super vulnerability , extreme
18:08
exhaustion , I said yes . I
18:10
was like , yeah , yeah , okay . Like
18:13
I was literally half asleep when she was asking
18:15
me this question , which , looking back
18:17
, just like pisses me off . But
18:19
thank God my mom was standing right there . And
18:22
my mom says , well , are
18:24
you sure that's what you want ? Like maybe we should get your
18:26
husband in here , maybe we should get
18:28
your doula back in here
18:30
and like talk about this . And the doctor
18:33
completely disregarded my mom , didn't
18:35
even look at her and
18:37
just kept talking to me and I
18:39
said , yeah , actually that's
18:41
a good idea . Like I was kind of starting to wake
18:43
up out of my dead asleep nap and I was
18:46
like , yes , let's get him in here , let's chat
18:48
about this . So my
18:50
doctor left and my husband
18:52
got in , the doula got in and
18:55
my aunt who was there she
18:57
had come in from Des Moines I'm in Kansas
18:59
City she had come down from Iowa and
19:02
she was gonna encapsulate my placenta
19:04
for me and she showed up at the hospital cause
19:06
at this point we're like bring him the backup
19:08
. And she had been a doula for years . And
19:11
so she showed up and
19:13
I just like all of a sudden had all
19:16
of these people around me that were like you're fine
19:18
, your babies are fine , like you've got your nap
19:20
, you've got the epidural . Now let's
19:23
do this . Like we can do this
19:25
. We can still very much have a vaginal
19:27
birth . This is totally
19:29
still on the table . And I was like , okay , let's
19:31
do it . So the doctor walked back
19:33
in and I said to her okay
19:36
, we're gonna keep going , we're
19:38
gonna keep trying and getting different
19:41
positions and do all the things . And she
19:43
was pissed . So she said
19:45
to me and I might misquote this
19:47
a little bit , but it was very close to this so
19:50
you're actually gonna do something now , because
19:52
you haven't been doing anything for
19:54
the last however many hours
19:57
. So I think she thought I
19:59
wasn't doing anything . Oh
20:01
, I had actually asked to turn the pitocin
20:03
off a second time when I was waiting for the epidural
20:06
. When I finally agreed to the epidural , I
20:08
had asked can we please turn the pitocin
20:10
off while I wait for the anesthesiologist ? Because
20:12
if I'm gonna get the epidural I might as well
20:15
just wait to have this pitocin
20:17
on . So I think she knew I had turned
20:19
the pitocin off twice . Once was my choice
20:21
, once was because they
20:23
were gonna break my water and then
20:25
I guess I had taken a nap and that
20:27
was not enough for her . So she
20:30
kind of huffed off in this angry
20:32
mood . I'm like , well
20:35
, you're actually gonna do something now
20:37
. So , okay , I mean , I guess
20:39
. And throughout , like I said
20:41
, from the time I met her at 9 am the
20:43
morning before to then , she
20:45
had gotten progressively less nice
20:48
and her bedside manner
20:51
had gotten worse , and every single time
20:53
she came in the room her vibe
20:55
was just bringing this negative energy . It
20:57
was just very visceral , for me
20:59
at least , of this is not the
21:01
energy I want . In the room I would feel myself
21:04
tensing up , which is obviously increasing
21:06
cortisol and decreasing oxytocin
21:08
and slowing down labor . And I
21:10
said to the nurse I don't want her , she
21:12
cannot come back . And my mom was
21:14
even like , if you needed a C-section
21:17
, I wouldn't really want her to do it , cause at this
21:19
point she's kind of like mad at you , because
21:21
I'm pretty sure she was called
21:23
to be there . She had to stay until
21:26
I had the baby because she was
21:28
the doctor associated with the birth
21:30
center , so I don't think she could just leave
21:32
when her 12 hours was
21:34
up , I think she actually had to like stay , and
21:37
so she was pissed and
21:39
I said she's not allowed back in my room
21:42
. And the nurse was like , oh okay
21:44
, well , we'll keep her away and then
21:46
, when you're ready to push , we'll just bring her in
21:48
right at the end and I said , absolutely fucking
21:50
not , she's not allowed back in here . Find
21:52
me who else is here , like I don't care who
21:55
it is , it's not her . And that felt
21:57
really really good in that moment and
21:59
I think I had like a weight lifted off with me
22:01
to just know that she wasn't coming back , which
22:04
sucks . It sucks so hard because
22:06
she was literally the reason that I chose
22:08
that hospital in the beginning , and so
22:11
we just kept doing the do with the
22:13
epiduralin . But everybody was helping me
22:15
get into really good positions on the peanut
22:17
ball and even doing some hands
22:19
and knees on the bed . I had a lot of help . I
22:21
was keeping my dosage really , really low on that
22:23
epidural and I got to the point where I
22:25
was like I need to poop
22:27
. But I didn't know this at the time
22:30
, but looking back now it wasn't the
22:32
baby is coming poop , like
22:34
feeling that you know we in this
22:36
space are like , yes , you're so excited
22:39
, you need to poop . I just felt kind of uncomfortable
22:41
and I knew that I just kind of needed to clear
22:43
out I think I needed to like clear out
22:45
before baby could come . And I
22:47
think I just intuitively knew that and
22:50
, of course , because I had the epidural , they
22:52
were like well , it's okay , you can just do
22:54
it . Like we'll bring you a bedpan . And I was like
22:56
no , no , no , that's not gonna work for
22:58
me . I need to go to the toilet . And they
23:00
were like we can't do that , you have an
23:02
epidural . So my mom even asked can
23:05
we get like a bedside commode that
23:07
we can help her onto ? And I
23:09
was like that's not really what I want , but
23:11
I guess , if that's all you guys can give me
23:13
Cause , I also felt , I think , at that point
23:16
, like maybe my body was craving privacy
23:18
, like I just needed to
23:20
like lock myself in the bathroom or something
23:22
, and that was unconsciously there . So
23:24
they were like we'll go ask . They came
23:27
back no , we can't do the bedside commode . I'm
23:29
like okay . So I left , I
23:31
showed my mom , I was like I put
23:33
my feet on the bed and I like was lifting
23:36
my hips and I'm like look , mom , I can
23:38
move . Look at this . And I'm not
23:40
recommending this to anyone . And I'm sure
23:42
, as a labor and delivery nurse , you are like freaking
23:45
out as I tell this story , I started to get
23:47
off the bed and crawl to the bathroom . So
23:50
I literally my mom's like what
23:52
? Are you ? doing . I'm like I'm crawling
23:54
, you won't help me walk there , I'm
23:56
going to fucking crawl . But I'm
23:59
going to the toilet and the
24:01
nurses rush in and they're like , okay , well , like , let
24:03
us like unhook you , like you're hooked up
24:05
to shit . And I'm like , okay , that's valid
24:07
. Like do what you need to do , unhook me . They
24:09
take me into the bathroom , they help me get
24:12
on the toilet , and then everybody's
24:14
like in the bathroom and I'm like , well , you guys
24:16
have to leave . I can't have you all in here
24:18
or else this is pointless . So I
24:20
think they gave me maybe
24:22
like two or three minutes
24:24
by myself , and
24:26
I mean I'm sure they were like all right
24:28
outside the door , but it was enough . I
24:30
don't even think that I pooped , but I just like I
24:33
let a lot go . It must
24:35
have been emotion , it must have just been like
24:37
pelvic floor tension , maybe
24:39
being able to just sit on the toilet
24:41
. I don't know what , but that three
24:44
minutes in the bathroom , plus , I think , firing
24:46
my doctor , changed the game for me
24:48
. And when I got back to the bed
24:50
and this had to have been mid to
24:52
late afternoon on Saturday , very
24:54
soon after that I got checked
24:56
I was dilated to seven , and
24:59
that was the first time . Like there's a photo
25:01
of my husband . He's like that was the first time that
25:03
I I was like , oh my God , this is happening
25:05
. I'm actually gonna have this vaginal birth . I'm
25:07
past a five , finally . So we kept
25:10
doing all the positions , all the
25:12
things . Eventually I got to a nine
25:14
and then I think I had a cervical
25:17
lip potentially , and we were doing some practice
25:19
pushing and at this point
25:21
there was literally so many people there
25:24
and I'm not even talking like hospital
25:26
staff . I think my mother-in-law has
25:28
shown up , I think my sister
25:30
had shown up Like she had come
25:32
back because she was there in early labor
25:34
and then she had come back . I did not even know
25:37
. I don't think that all these people were there at this point
25:39
and we had a big corner
25:41
room and they almost kicked
25:43
a lot of the people out , but they ended up where
25:46
, like we'll just squish everybody in my corner oh
25:48
, my birth photographer . I had a birth photographer
25:50
that showed up , like literally
25:52
thinking back on it , and
25:54
as a doula now who's been in many hospital
25:57
rooms , I'm like I don't know
25:59
how the hell there was that many people in
26:01
a room but they all like
26:03
squished into the corner and I finally got to start
26:05
pushing and I started on my side
26:07
, ended up on my back . I remember thinking I
26:09
don't really want to push in my back , but at the time
26:11
I just did not care and at that time
26:14
I was extremely exhausted , couldn't
26:16
feel much , don't think I really knew how to
26:18
push and I ended up needing like
26:20
oxygen mask in between pushing
26:23
just because it was so strenuous
26:25
. I think my baby had to have been in
26:27
there in a really , really weird position . Well
26:29
, he actually did have a nuchal hand , so his hand
26:31
was by his face and maybe that was part
26:33
of it . But I'm sure he was like his
26:35
head wasn't flexed or he was asymptotic
26:38
or something I don't know . But my
26:40
husband said they were just like pouring
26:42
lube down there and like you
26:45
were just obviously needing the oxygen . Everybody
26:47
was there helping me . I remember my husband
26:49
saying get after it . And I'm
26:51
thinking like why the fuck would you
26:54
say that ? But
26:56
I'm like I guess that's what I needed to hear in the moment
26:58
or whether it was or wasn't . That's what he
27:00
was saying . And then , yeah
27:02
, he eventually was born
27:04
. I think I pushed for about 30
27:07
minutes but it felt like forever
27:10
. I remember at one point his head was
27:12
starting to come out and they were like , do you wanna feel his head
27:14
? And I felt it and
27:16
I said it's so squishy
27:18
. And my husband
27:20
said one of the first things he thought when he finally
27:22
came out was oh man , I'm gonna have to
27:25
love that kid , cause his head was so
27:27
misshapen and I'm like , dude
27:29
, their heads go back to normal . Like
27:31
how did he not know that ? Like
27:34
the hat was , like he had this huge dome head
27:36
in the hat , like barely even sat on the end
27:38
of it , and he was just like , oh man , I'm gonna have
27:40
to love that kid . We did not know
27:42
if there was a boy or a girl . I
27:45
, we really really thought it was a girl
27:47
and my husband goes damn
27:50
, he has a fat sack and I'm
27:52
like , okay , so it's
27:54
not a girl . So these are the things
27:56
, that , the joys of the things
27:58
my husband said . And he did
28:00
not come out breathing . I
28:02
don't think I knew I wanted skin to skin
28:04
. He was kind of more on my abdomen
28:07
, cause the umbilical cord length , I think , and wasn't
28:09
breathing . So about
28:11
a minute later cause I wanted to
28:14
delay the clamping as much as possible , and
28:16
at that point I think I was just in such relief to
28:18
get him out that anything that I wanted
28:21
at that point just kind of went out the window
28:23
. I was like I , he's just here
28:25
. And I remember , even
28:27
though he wasn't breathing , and they ended up cutting
28:29
the cord and taking him to the warmer , I
28:32
remember not feeling any worry
28:34
. I remember just laying there feeling
28:36
like he's going to be fine . This is , this is
28:38
totally fine . Like sometimes babies just have
28:41
a lot of fluid . It takes them a
28:43
minute . I remember not being worried at
28:45
all and I kind of want to wrap up this
28:47
story but like I did end
28:49
up having a retained placenta , a
28:52
hemorrhage , and I ended up going back through
28:54
a DNC about 30 minutes after
28:57
he was born , probably because I
28:59
think it was a multitude of factors . They
29:02
were doing a lot of manual traction
29:04
, which I did not want . They actually
29:06
pulled the umbilical cord off my placenta
29:08
and I had had
29:10
Potosin for a
29:12
long fucking time over a day and a half
29:14
and so I'm sure my uterus was just like
29:17
done and so wasn't
29:19
clamping down . So I did go back for a DNC
29:21
. But I also just remember
29:24
in that moment just not feeling
29:26
worried . And it's so
29:28
interesting because , even though you might
29:30
consider some of those things traumatic you
29:32
hemorrhaged and you went back for a DNC None
29:35
of my trauma that is associated
29:37
with that birth comes from that . It
29:39
all comes from those conversations
29:42
where I felt like I wasn't being seen or heard
29:44
by my doctor and even , for
29:46
in a few moments , by my husband , when
29:48
I felt like I was having to advocate for myself
29:51
in moments where I didn't want
29:53
to , when I felt like people who should have
29:55
been on my side were on my side . Those are
29:57
the things that I look back
29:59
on and have feelings about , whereas
30:02
the blood loss and things like that
30:04
I'm trying to like yeah , that was probably traumatic
30:06
for everyone else that was watching , but it wasn't
30:08
really for me . And my mom at
30:11
the time was a lactation consultant
30:13
. She's an IBCLC and
30:15
because we had done so much pumping
30:17
prior to labor to
30:20
try to get labor started , we had collected some
30:22
colostrum and we had brought it with us , so
30:24
my mom was able to give him colostrum
30:26
While I was back there for the DNC
30:29
. We have some really cute pictures of that where
30:31
, like , my husband is skin to skin with him and
30:33
she is feeding like syringe , feeding him drops
30:35
of colostrum so we didn't
30:37
have to supplement . When I came
30:39
back , she was getting him latched on to
30:41
me , even though my husband said I looked dead , like
30:43
I was white as a ghost and
30:45
not able to breastfeed him . She
30:48
did all of it . She's like maneuvering
30:50
him in my boob and all of it . So I was so grateful
30:52
for that , and I think
30:54
recovery from that was pretty hard
30:56
, like that first week , just because I had lost
30:59
so much blood . I ended up getting an iron
31:01
IV but I did not need a blood transfusion
31:04
. So if that gives
31:06
any context to how much blood I lost
31:08
, I guess it wasn't enough to need a transfusion or
31:10
I just didn't need it . At one point
31:12
, I think the doctor was up
31:14
to her elbow in my uterus
31:17
prior to going back for the DNC , and
31:19
so I'm really glad I had an epidural for that
31:21
part , because I've heard women that have retained
31:24
placentas that don't have epidural say that that's
31:26
worse than the child births for sure . So
31:28
that was my first experience , and
31:31
so it led to
31:34
a lot of reasons
31:36
why I do the work I do
31:38
now , not from this place of
31:40
I wanna save women , or
31:43
I think some doulas get into it for
31:45
a little bit of the wrong reasons and
31:47
I never , ever had the
31:49
intention of bringing my trauma like into
31:51
my work or into another mom's birth
31:54
space , but it more
31:56
so came from this place of holy
31:58
shit . I learned so much
32:01
throughout my pregnancy and birth process
32:03
that literally my friends don't
32:05
know the mom I talk to doesn't know
32:07
. Like people don't know these options , people
32:09
don't know they can fire their doctor , people don't
32:11
know they can ask for
32:13
things . They don't know , they just don't
32:16
know . And the
32:18
uphill battle that I faced I was just like
32:20
I have to help women be
32:23
able to navigate these choices
32:25
. So , yeah , I don't know if you wanna touch on any of
32:27
that before I made this .
32:29
I was writing down a lot of things , so
32:31
a couple of things I wrote down and
32:33
probably you'll touch on this later . But I feel like
32:35
what you're communicating was that your focus
32:37
at the beginning was delivering at the
32:39
birth center was the goal , and that that may have been
32:41
a big source of the stress . And then
32:44
I'm assuming that , because you've learned
32:46
since then how to frame your
32:48
expectations and plan your
32:50
birth , you now probably
32:52
help people plan for all of the contingencies
32:55
at this point in order to eliminate
32:57
that stress .
32:59
Yeah , that is definitely something we work
33:01
on . We talk about different
33:03
things that could happen , but
33:05
more so because
33:07
it's impossible to go down every single rabbit
33:09
hole that could happen . Part of my framework
33:12
is starting with how
33:14
you want to feel , and so we go through
33:16
this entire list of journaling prompts . We
33:18
talk about fears , we talk about preconceived
33:20
notions , we talk about how do you
33:22
want the experience to feel and
33:24
how can we get back to those feelings
33:26
, no matter what the circumstances
33:29
are . So no matter what curveballs
33:31
get thrown your way , how do we get back
33:34
to those feelings ? So
33:36
, if plans change , if circumstances
33:39
arise , you can remember
33:41
, okay , well , this is how I want to feel in this moment
33:43
. So this is the choice I'm gonna make so
33:45
that I can feel that way , if that makes the most
33:48
sense .
33:48
Take back control yeah control
33:51
what you can Exactly yeah , yeah
33:53
, I think everybody focuses on the wrong part of control
33:55
. And so then and it sounded like
33:57
I mean so kind of this goes into
34:00
the conversation that your doctor
34:02
had with you that kind of led to her not coming
34:04
back to the room . Well , the first one , the one
34:06
where she wanted to rupture your membranes before
34:08
you were ready , I feel like just what
34:11
from what I heard from you is
34:13
, had that been explained a little bit better , you
34:15
may have been more open to that
34:17
option . When we say what is your end game
34:19
, that is a little bit threatening . So
34:22
a little bit of explanation
34:24
as to the thought process
34:26
of why we might be going
34:28
down that route and what the other options
34:30
are and how we can continue
34:33
to proceed towards a vaginal
34:35
birth would have been better . And
34:37
also just my assumption , like
34:39
you said , that she's a private practice
34:41
and wanting to get out of there . I feel
34:43
like if you're a private practice
34:46
provider , you might wanna be
34:48
a little bit more cognizant of those conversations
34:50
and have some backup plans as well , Because
34:53
rushing people into interventions
34:55
just so you can get home isn't what you
34:57
sign up for as a private provider
34:59
.
35:01
And that's what it felt like . I felt like they
35:03
were talking to me in circles , and the reason
35:05
why they couldn't give me a straight answer is because the
35:08
straight answer would have been you're just
35:10
taking too long , and that
35:12
was not good enough for me .
35:13
Yeah , and I don't know how the pay structure works , but
35:15
I think that they get paid for deliveries . So
35:19
she probably wasn't exactly happy with
35:21
having to be there and not being
35:24
paid or getting call pay
35:26
or something ridiculous . Or maybe she was on salary
35:28
or something where , just like , the pay structure makes
35:30
it so that providers don't wanna
35:33
be there waiting for someone to deliver for
35:35
days . But that's how the
35:37
body works sometimes . So
35:39
when you had your servidil
35:41
out , do you remember how dilated you were when they started
35:44
the pitocin ?
35:45
I think I was probably
35:47
. Oh my God , you know what I
35:49
totally missed . I also had
35:51
a cook balloon placed .
35:53
Oh , okay , so they did that and they were able to
35:55
. You were dilated enough . Well , you were
35:57
always dilated enough to get that in , because you did that
35:59
before right .
36:01
Yeah , after five attempts , or
36:03
after six attempts , they finally got the fully
36:05
bull bin at the midwives office . So when I
36:07
went in I was like a centimeter dilated
36:09
. They did the servidil and then they placed
36:12
a cook balloon . Oh my gosh , I can't
36:14
believe I forgot . And so the
36:16
cook balloon fell out around three centimeters and
36:18
then I think I must have been around after four or four
36:20
when they started pitocin .
36:22
Okay , I was gonna say if it was too early
36:24
it was never gonna happen , but you were a mechanical dilated
36:27
three or four , so it takes
36:29
a while . Some of the things that came
36:31
up for me when you were talking about the pitocin not working at
36:33
first and then having to stop
36:35
and then start again did you
36:37
feel like you're contracting , or was it maybe just like
36:39
? I don't know . This is this thing that
36:41
nurses do when the pitocin's not
36:43
working , we just get a new bag . It
36:46
just seems like maybe they forgot the pitocin
36:49
, like the bag that they
36:51
mixed with pitocin . Maybe the manufacturer
36:53
forgot to actually put the pitocin in .
36:55
Yeah , no , I maybe
36:58
. Once I got up around like 15
37:01
, I was starting to feel
37:04
contractions . But I
37:07
remember there was a good solid three hours
37:09
of probably being on pitocin where
37:11
I don't
37:14
think I felt much of anything
37:16
, did not have an epic earlier
37:18
, was not feeling contractions
37:20
. They actually asked to check me again
37:23
and I was like why , I
37:25
promise you I have not dilated , like
37:28
nothing is happening . And they're like
37:30
you know , and they just kind of like kept
37:33
pushing the vaginal check and finally I was
37:35
like fine , check me had
37:37
not dilated , I'm still a five and I'm
37:39
like I told you like I feel nothing
37:41
, there's nothing happening . So
37:44
there's definitely a chance . I'm like
37:46
maybe they did forget it .
37:49
Or maybe it was just like they didn't put the right dose or something
37:51
in Cause .
37:52
yeah they cranked me all the way up
37:54
to I think it was 20 or whatever the max is
37:56
that's allowed there , and then that's when they're
37:59
like we can't crank it up anymore
38:01
without the intern .
38:02
Right . Yeah , that's pretty standard practice
38:04
, but I think that could have been framed a little bit differently
38:07
. I'm curious have you had patients that that
38:09
has happened to and you've had maybe a different opinion
38:11
? Now that you , what specifically ?
38:13
has happened to .
38:15
So that maybe they get to 20 of pitocin
38:17
and they're offering the internals and the rupture
38:20
of membranes . I wonder if you've had a different experience
38:22
with that .
38:23
I'm trying to think if I've had any
38:25
clients that have had that happen
38:27
, but I honestly don't think I have . I
38:30
feel like the pitocin eventually starts working
38:32
, or or even like
38:34
if they break their water . Yeah , I counsel
38:37
clients about breaking the water differently
38:39
if they have an epidural than if they don't . Cause
38:42
my mom , I want to avoid an epidural
38:44
. I counsel them over the fact that
38:46
, like , once you break the water , these contractions
38:48
are going to get more intense and so if
38:50
you're wanting to stay unmedicated , you might want
38:52
to avoid them breaking your water and
38:55
then my mom's with epidurals already
38:57
. I just let them know that
38:59
, like , breaking the water could
39:01
help . It also might not
39:03
help and it might put you on a time clock and
39:05
it's just good to know . And if
39:07
you're poor enough along and babies low
39:09
enough , especially like a bulgy
39:12
bag , like breaking the water
39:14
might actually we might have a baby
39:16
in an outbreak , you know , versus
39:18
you're dilated to a five baby's
39:21
still high in the pelvis . I
39:23
don't really feel like breaking the water . It's not wise , it's
39:25
not really going to help you right now . Yeah
39:27
, that's what they want to do , because that's kind of
39:29
their next step . They don't have anything
39:32
else to offer you . But
39:34
you don't have to say yes .
39:36
Right . So then you had the Potosin break
39:38
, and then they broke your water .
39:40
Yeah , I think it was like we've cranked
39:42
it all the way up , but we're going to turn it off
39:44
, break your water and
39:47
restart . Okay , that makes sense . Break
39:50
your water and turn the monitor on and then
39:52
restart .
39:52
So that we know that Potosin's doing something
39:55
, doing something exactly . And
39:57
where was your baby's head in the pelvis , do you know ? Did they
39:59
tell you before they broke your water ? They
40:01
probably didn't tell you , I don't remember .
40:02
They may have told me and I just have no idea
40:05
. I do really think that
40:07
like some spinning babies , probably
40:10
some lunging , I
40:12
was changing positions
40:14
and doing stuff like on the birth ball and stuff , but
40:16
I don't think I was doing any well .
40:18
I might have been doing like asymmetrical
40:21
type of movement at that point
40:23
I just don't really Well , but you had a compound presentation
40:26
, so anything you did was still going to be
40:28
a challenge .
40:28
Yeah , and I and at the time
40:30
, spinning babies wasn't really very
40:33
well known about they actually
40:35
came and did a training here in 2019
40:38
that I attended as
40:40
the only non-birth worker there , and
40:42
my doula was also there . So I'm sure
40:45
there was like aha moments for both of us of
40:47
like , oh man , how do we know this information
40:49
when I was having my baby . Yeah , we would
40:51
have used it , but we didn't know .
40:53
Yeah same , you
40:55
don't know what you don't know .
40:56
We don't .
40:57
Well , let's see , there's
40:59
a lot of things that I wanna that you said
41:01
that I wanna touch on . But let's move
41:03
on to the next , because , wow , we could just
41:05
we could go down a
41:07
lot of rabbit holes . All right , so
41:09
baby number two , well
41:12
, actually , two and three , two and three .
41:14
So the conception story
41:16
is a little bit funny . I did
41:18
not . So my son . He
41:21
started preschool or sorry , like
41:23
daycare when he was around 15 months
41:25
, and this was August of
41:27
2019 . And then
41:29
in March , the world shut down and
41:31
he got sent home with me and
41:34
I was trying to build a business
41:36
and work part-time
41:38
and had just gotten into a rhythm
41:40
with my schedule and was like , okay
41:43
, now I'm home with a toddler who's
41:45
extremely needy . We always
41:47
knew we wanted more kids , but
41:49
I just had this feeling of like I don't
41:51
think I'm ever gonna be ready . We had talked about starting
41:53
to try again in August , so we'd have another
41:55
April , may baby , and
41:57
it was just like , or I
42:00
guess maybe start a little earlier , I don't know , I can't do math
42:02
and I was just like I'm not
42:04
gonna be ready . I ended up going to an
42:06
energy worker who does a little bit of massage
42:08
and acupuncture and she I had seen
42:10
her before and she gave me a reading
42:12
that was basically like you are making
42:15
your decisions out of fear and you need
42:17
to not make your decisions out
42:19
of fear , and there is this
42:21
female energy that's ready to be
42:23
yours when you're ready to have her and
42:26
I was like holy shit , this means
42:28
I'm about to get pregnant with a girl . I
42:30
need to just let go of fear , get
42:32
pregnant now , like it'll be fine . I'm
42:35
just scared of being a mom of
42:37
two kids , and so
42:40
I was supposed to start my period in
42:42
three days . So I'm like
42:44
it's okay , don't pull out , because you know that
42:46
was our birth control method at the time . And
42:48
. I got pregnant and
42:51
so that was summer
42:53
of 2020 . And we
42:55
were all in lockdown . I was not
42:57
connecting with the pregnancy . I think
42:59
a lot of moms maybe they got pregnant around that
43:01
time . We're just struggling emotionally
43:04
and so I
43:06
knew I knew before I even got pregnant
43:09
that I wanted a home birth . This time
43:11
I was like , unfortunately
43:13
, the birth center in my area it
43:16
has all these restrictions on it and if I go past 42
43:18
weeks again like I'm not dealing with that , so
43:20
I'm gonna go straight to a home
43:22
birth . My midwife was actually working
43:24
with a home birth midwife Cause , again , she's an IBCLC
43:27
and she's an RN , so she was doing like
43:29
newborn visits for this midwife and
43:31
I was like , okay , great , I met her , loved her
43:33
, hired her and at
43:36
around nine weeks I
43:38
went in to the first
43:40
prenatal and we
43:43
were gonna throw on the Doppler . But I was like you know
43:45
, I just am not really connecting
43:47
with this pregnancy and I just feel like something
43:49
is wrong . I was just having a lot
43:51
of worry for no reason and
43:54
she had just
43:56
gotten this new tool called the butterfly
43:59
, which is an ultrasound , a handheld ultrasound
44:01
little thing where she could see
44:03
the image on her phone . She's like I
44:05
just got this . Do you want me to look
44:07
, just so we can like ease some of your anxiety
44:10
. And I was like , yes , please . So I lay down
44:12
and I can see out as a corner of my eye
44:14
, two sacs , I can see
44:17
it and she goes um
44:19
, taylor and , mind you , like
44:21
she knows my mom , she has this relationship
44:23
with my mom , my mom's student , right there , my
44:25
mom can see it and
44:27
I'm like what ? And my mom's
44:29
like I think you're scaring her . Tell her something
44:32
. She's like Taylor , I think you're having
44:34
twins . And my husband just like
44:36
belly laughs and
44:38
I have this on video . There's a real I posted
44:41
on my Instagram . You can go watch it and
44:43
just like straight up belly
44:45
laughs . He had been joking about it . Actually
44:47
, he had been joking that we were
44:50
gonna have twin girls and he's like bring
44:52
my girls to me . Like he would say things
44:54
like that that I'm just like stop it , we're
44:56
not having twins , we don't have twins in our family
44:58
, like we're not having twins . And so that was
45:00
a huge shock at nine weeks , probably
45:03
less of a shock than the people that find out at like
45:05
20 weeks or 30 something weeks
45:07
. But I very
45:09
quickly was like in logistics
45:11
mode Cause at the time I was already a doula
45:13
and I was like what do I do ? Like , can I
45:15
birth with you ? Can you still be my midwives
45:18
? And because I'm in
45:20
the Kansas Missouri area , in
45:22
our state you can . Midwives
45:25
do have legal privileges to
45:27
attend twin births , v-backs
45:29
, breech births , unlike a lot of
45:31
states . So she's like , yes
45:33
, but I've
45:35
never personally done twins
45:38
before . She had a twin mom . At the time
45:40
she was due a few months before me
45:42
. So we very quickly looped in
45:44
another midwife team in the area who
45:47
had a lot more experience with
45:49
twins . Even though my midwife
45:51
had taken training , she had never
45:53
attended one , or at least been
45:55
the lead midwife on one , and
45:57
so that was the plan . I
45:59
had her plus another midwife
46:02
team and we just moved through with
46:04
care like normal , honestly Well
46:06
. So she told me she wanted to have me have
46:08
congruent care with an MFM
46:10
in the area , which is maternal fetal medicine
46:12
doctor , which is like a high risk pregnancy
46:15
specialist , and so she
46:18
sent me to her . I had my
46:20
first scan with her at 17 weeks
46:22
and this doctor knew
46:24
that I was planning a home birth . Like she was chatting
46:27
with my midwife , she was sending all my records to
46:29
my midwife . I don't think she loved the idea
46:31
, but she was not ever rude
46:33
about it or made me feel stupid about it
46:35
or anything like that . And so I had
46:37
my first scan with her at 17 weeks and
46:40
then I did monthly scans
46:43
up until gosh
46:45
it was probably like 32-ish , 34-ish
46:48
and then I started going weekly
46:51
, for maybe it was
46:53
even a little bit later than that . I started
46:55
going weekly for biophysical profiles
46:57
and non-stress tests for
46:59
the babies . They were doing growth scans
47:02
, maybe every month , mainly to
47:04
check that they were not
47:06
stealing nutrients from each other , I think , even
47:09
though they did have their own sacs , their own
47:11
placentas , which is called di-di twins
47:13
, which is supposedly the quote unquote like
47:15
safest type to have . And
47:18
so they were doing great
47:20
. We were doing all the scans , we were doing
47:22
all the biophysical profiles , the non-stress
47:24
tests , and at around
47:26
gosh 34
47:29
weeks probably it was apparent
47:31
and we were far enough along , and
47:33
maybe prior to this even that
47:35
my baby A , every scan
47:37
she kept qualifying
47:39
him as transverse , which essentially
47:41
means sideways , so you
47:44
have head down , butt down
47:46
or feet down , which is breach , and then
47:48
transverse , which is like off to the side . So
47:50
his butt was always near
47:52
my left hip so he was like semi-breach
47:55
but off to the side , and so in
47:57
the earlier scans we just kind of left
47:59
it alone . I was in chiropractic care
48:01
. I was doing minimal things
48:04
to really change much of that outside
48:06
of chiropractic care . We're just like
48:09
, oh , he'll shift , and once
48:11
it got a little further along and we're like , okay
48:13
, he's definitely butt down and
48:15
he's definitely butt off to the side . We
48:17
chatted with the other midwife team who
48:20
had experience with twins
48:22
and they also had a decent amount of experience
48:24
with breach as well , and my midwife
48:26
, as well as this other midwife , had
48:28
both taken the reteach breach
48:31
trainings . They had been in touch with
48:33
an OBI out of California , dr
48:35
Stuart Fishbein , who is very , very
48:37
well known for twins and breach and
48:40
his expertise in that , and so
48:42
they had both trained with him
48:44
and were in actually communication
48:46
with him throughout this . A
48:49
little bit as far as what's safe
48:51
, what's not safe , proper breach position
48:53
versus the position my baby
48:55
was in , which was like not a proper breach position
48:58
, he was off to the side , and so
49:00
at that time , probably around 34 weeks
49:02
, I went
49:04
hard in the paint like trying to
49:06
get this baby to just center
49:08
. I did not expect him to flip
49:10
, because he was one
49:12
of two in there and
49:15
his brother , funny enough
49:17
, every single scan was
49:19
in a different position . Like his head
49:21
. That baby flipped every single
49:23
week Like he was just all over the place
49:25
, whereas this baby was just
49:27
like stuck , he was just there . So
49:30
I did more chiropractic
49:32
and I did some pretty intense body
49:35
work with like a Mayan abdominal
49:37
massage therapist who did like some milifacial
49:40
work , some deep tissue making
49:42
space in the abdomen , did a lot of spinning
49:44
baby stuff , did some stuff with acupuncture
49:47
just to really make space , not
49:50
never expecting him to flip but just hoping
49:52
he would center . And
49:54
I want to say , at
49:56
around 38 weeks
49:58
I decided
50:01
that I wanted to add in collaborative
50:04
care with an OB because
50:06
I knew that this might end up
50:08
at the hospital and
50:10
I wanted
50:13
to establish care with someone who was
50:15
one doctor in the city who we knew of
50:17
who would attend a vaginal
50:20
breach birth and unfortunately
50:22
there's no hospitals in
50:24
the area Well , that might not be true now who
50:27
have a green light protocol for a vaginal
50:29
breach birth when it's planned . Unfortunately
50:32
there might be one actually , but this doctor
50:34
had written one and he
50:36
just said they were waiting for it to be green
50:39
lighted , which of course wasn't gonna happen by the
50:41
time I had my babies . But he's like let's
50:43
chat . So we sat down for a meeting
50:45
. He did an ultrasound he's
50:47
like baby's breach , which
50:49
to me was like the best news in the world
50:51
because I'm like he's not transverse
50:54
but was over in the cervix . That was great news
50:56
. And that doctor was kind of like
50:58
I'll be around if you need me
51:00
, like I'm like hopefully I don't
51:02
see you , hopefully I don't ever see you again . And
51:04
so we were all really
51:06
thrilled about that . And so he
51:08
was breach from about 37
51:11
, 38 weeks on
51:13
and I went in for
51:16
my biophysical profile and my non-stress
51:18
test with my maternal fetal medicine doctor
51:20
at the 38
51:22
week mark as well . I think the
51:25
weeks all blend together , so it's
51:27
so frequent and I remember it was either
51:29
her or the tech saying we recommend
51:31
delivery , that's our recommendation . We
51:34
know you're not your main provider , but that's our
51:36
recommendation . And of course , to them
51:38
that meant have a C-section , because
51:41
they're not going to
51:43
induce you with
51:45
a breach baby . Their hospitals
51:47
don't provide vaginal
51:49
breach birth as an option . So to them
51:51
that meant schedule a C-section at 38 weeks
51:54
, which I was absolutely not gonna do so
51:56
, sent me on my way . I show
51:58
back up for the following week , because at this point I
52:00
was going weekly . I show back up
52:02
at 39 weeks and the
52:04
tech says , wow , we're kind
52:07
of surprised to see you today , cause
52:09
we recommended delivery last week . And
52:11
I was like I didn't say this out loud
52:13
but in my head I'm like , yeah
52:16
, I recommended delivery to these babies
52:18
too , but like they didn't listen , I don't know
52:20
what to tell you . And so the tech
52:22
was kind of , as she's doing the scan , talking
52:24
to me about like well , what's your plan
52:27
? And again I'm having like flashback
52:29
moments like what's your end game ? And I'm like , oh
52:31
geez . And she so
52:33
, when she asked me that question , I was like , well , my plan is
52:35
to take it day by day and
52:38
my plan is to use the information that
52:40
we're gathering today to make
52:42
a choice . And so my baby
52:44
one of them almost
52:47
didn't pass that test
52:49
with all the points that they can pass
52:51
with , because he didn't give one extra
52:53
punch or one extra kick , like he didn't give
52:55
it until the very end of the 30 minute
52:57
timeframe and I thought for sure
52:59
she was gonna fail me on purpose . I was
53:02
like I bet you . She saw something that she just didn't
53:04
say . And that was just me being cynical
53:06
and mad , thinking she was gonna fail
53:08
me on purpose , but ultimately they passed
53:11
. They did everything they were supposed to do . I got a 10
53:13
out of 10 . So eight points on the
53:15
biophysical profile and two on the non-stress
53:17
test and went on my way
53:19
and I told my midwife when I left I can't
53:21
go back there . They already
53:24
want me to like have had these babies . I
53:26
don't feel comfortable going back there for my next scan
53:29
. So my 40 week
53:31
scan , I went to one
53:33
of those imaging places that does like 3D
53:36
imaging and they
53:38
did my scan . They don't have the
53:41
ability to do non-stress tests there , but they
53:43
were able to do the biophysical profile
53:45
, which was enough for us . They passed again
53:47
at 39 weeks . So yes , I'm still pregnant
53:49
at 39 weeks . And throughout
53:51
this process , the other thing that was happening was
53:53
we were juggling
53:56
the many , many factors
53:58
of the fact that I'm 39 weeks
54:00
pregnant with breech twins and
54:02
navigating . Okay
54:05
, should we nudge labor along a
54:07
little bit this week because biophysical
54:09
profiles look good , baby's in a good position
54:12
, or should we back off
54:14
and let your body take over
54:16
naturally and let spontaneous labor
54:18
happen ? And so it was this like
54:20
ebb and flow of everything
54:23
looks good . Maybe we should nudge things along
54:26
versus not . So there were days where I
54:28
did the breast pump , I did squatting , I did stairs
54:30
, I did on my due date
54:32
. So at the 40 week mark I actually
54:34
ended up going to do my scan with
54:37
that OB that I had congruent
54:39
care with at the hospital
54:41
and he confirmed again
54:43
that baby was breech . They passed with flying
54:45
colors and he asked me at that appointment
54:48
do you want ?
54:49
me to give you a C-section today ? And
54:51
I was like but he said it just , so that's
54:54
all I can offer you . Do you
54:56
want me to help you today ? And I was like nope
54:58
, no thanks . And he's like okay , just checking
55:00
, he was super sweet , that's all I can offer
55:03
you . Do you want me to help
55:05
you today ? And I was like nope , no thanks
55:07
. And he's like , okay , just checking , he
55:09
was super sweet .
55:10
And so I left that appointment . Again , the babies were looking
55:12
great and my midwife came over that night
55:14
to do an herb
55:17
protocol to essentially the
55:19
midwives version of an induction at
55:22
home , because , again , we
55:24
had just gotten a great biophysical profile
55:26
. Baby was in a good position
55:29
and it was weighing the risks of
55:31
next week we might not get this news , tomorrow
55:34
we might not have this news versus
55:36
weighing the risks of basically an
55:38
induction or pushing your body into labor when
55:40
it's not quite ready . So we were weighing those options
55:43
constantly and she came
55:45
over and did a whole herb protocol . We
55:47
did a lot of spinning babies , a lot of squatting
55:50
and ultimately I would keep
55:52
a contraction pattern when we were doing all the things
55:54
. But the second we stopped doing them , like my
55:56
contractions would stop and they were never getting
55:59
regular or rhythmic or
56:01
stronger , like they were just kind of there
56:03
. So they left
56:05
. The next morning and the
56:08
next week was very
56:10
similar , like one day of doing nothing
56:12
, one day of maybe nudging , one day
56:14
of , okay , maybe you should go for a walk today
56:16
. The next day , okay , maybe you should sleep today . And
56:19
so now we're
56:21
past 41 weeks , I'm
56:24
still pregnant with twins , but my
56:26
midwives were around all
56:28
the time they were over probably every day
56:30
, every other day , checking heart tones
56:33
Again . My babies were passing these biophysical
56:35
profiles with flying colors . My blood
56:38
pressure was staying within good
56:40
range . We were all healthy . So
56:42
we just kept making the decision to stay
56:44
pregnant because we were all
56:47
healthy . I think I had done a few membrane
56:49
sweeps at that point to try to get things
56:52
moving . I think I took castor
56:54
oil in some way shape or form
56:56
three or four times in
56:59
, like orange juice in scrambled
57:01
eggs , in protein shakes
57:03
. I had done a lot of different things to try to
57:05
kick things off and they just wore not . They were
57:07
not so , probably because it was a baby
57:10
butt on my cervix and not a baby
57:12
head . So get down to the last
57:14
week and Sunday
57:16
. So this is . It was exactly 41
57:18
weeks . I had done a membrane sweep and she had
57:20
checked me and I think they were like stretching
57:23
me a little bit every time they were doing a sweep
57:26
. So at this point I was
57:28
a five and I haven't actually been
57:30
a five for like a week
57:32
. So there was cervical change happening
57:34
. So I was hopeful and I was also
57:36
hopeful that once things got started
57:38
that they would really go fast
57:41
. And so Sunday
57:43
I was a five that was , at 41 weeks
57:45
and then 41
57:48
and four . So Thursday my
57:50
midwife came over maybe once
57:53
throughout that week and did another little herb protocol
57:55
on me just us two and
57:57
didn't work again . Thursday
58:00
I took a bath because she's like just
58:02
relax today and I
58:05
got out of the bath I laid in bed and my
58:07
water broke and I
58:09
knew what happened . But I
58:11
got up and I went to the bathroom . There
58:13
was definitely meconium stain in the water
58:15
, but especially with the Breach Baby
58:17
, I was like okay , well , his butt is
58:19
right there . But
58:22
I immediately started
58:24
crying . So it was the fear , the anxiety
58:26
, the holy shit . This is happening
58:29
. It all rushed at
58:31
once and even being in the role
58:33
that I am , knowing what I know , as the
58:35
birthing parent , as the mom
58:37
doing it , all of that shit goes out the window
58:39
and you're just like I don't know what's just happening
58:42
, like I called my mom , I called my midwife
58:44
, I'm like I don't know , like I'm freaking out
58:46
. And so that day
58:48
I ended up putting on a depend
58:51
and my baby was
58:53
pooping out of me throughout the entire
58:56
day . So this
58:58
happened around 2pm on Thursday
59:01
they came over . She's
59:03
like okay , let's walk around the block every
59:06
10 feet , do a squat , you know
59:08
, because now we're at the point where we do need contractions
59:11
to happen , because now my water's broken
59:13
, so like we do need a contraction pattern
59:15
to be going , and it wasn't . So
59:18
we're doing the things . Finally , I
59:20
kind of got a contraction pattern that
59:22
felt like it was going to stick and
59:25
again , at this point I'm five centimeters . So
59:27
she calls the other midwife team
59:29
. She's like I think you guys should come here because
59:31
this is probably going to happen fast now that it's
59:33
happening . They started filling up the
59:35
pool for me , all of those things
59:37
, and then , yet again
59:40
, things just started to
59:42
stop . They just petered out and
59:45
it was so frustrating that
59:47
whole last couple of weeks . Just waking up pregnant
59:49
every morning was just like oh my God , are you
59:51
kidding me ? Like this didn't happen overnight , especially
59:55
that day , especially now knowing that the other
59:57
midwives were there and so
59:59
and they left me alone . Like they said hello
1:00:02
and then they totally left me alone , and
1:00:04
then I just remember feeling like a watched pot
1:00:07
, even though nobody
1:00:09
was making me feel that way . And
1:00:11
then there's flashbacks to my last birth , flashbacks
1:00:13
to why is this not happening ? Why
1:00:15
am I almost 42 weeks and my body is
1:00:17
like not kicking into gear , like what's going
1:00:19
on ? How am I walking around at
1:00:21
five centimeters and just not having contractions
1:00:24
? I don't understand this . And so
1:00:26
eventually they petered
1:00:28
out and my midwife said do you want
1:00:30
me to tell everyone to leave ? And
1:00:33
I was like actually yes . And
1:00:35
then she asked me the very hard question of
1:00:37
do you want me to tell everyone
1:00:40
to leave ? Meaning , like , my mom
1:00:43
and my doula
1:00:45
who was my aunt from the previous birth that
1:00:47
I told you about that came down from Des Moines and this
1:00:49
woman was driving down every
1:00:52
single week because she lived
1:00:54
in Iowa and had her own business . She
1:00:56
was driving down every single week and
1:00:58
at that moment I just needed
1:01:01
to be by myself and
1:01:03
I knew it was going to break my mom's heart for me
1:01:05
to tell her to leave , but I was like yes , like
1:01:07
please , they need to leave . And
1:01:09
so I think my husband had to go down and do the dirty work
1:01:11
and we tell him to leave . And
1:01:13
so we went to bed . My midwife was
1:01:15
the only one that stayed . She stayed overnight on my couch
1:01:18
. She was checking heart tones every , however
1:01:21
often while I slept I
1:01:23
was sleeping with the peanut ball , and
1:01:25
, at some point during the night
1:01:27
, contractions started again on
1:01:29
their own , and this was the
1:01:32
first time in both
1:01:34
of my pregnancies that
1:01:36
contractions had started on their own
1:01:38
, without the breast pump , without squatting , without
1:01:40
anything else . And I was just
1:01:42
so ecstatic and
1:01:44
my husband was asleep , my midwife was asleep , it
1:01:46
was just me , and , like we were , I was just
1:01:48
walk . I say we because me and the baby's , like we were
1:01:50
just walking around the room . I was on all fours
1:01:53
, I was leaning over the bed , I was on the dresser
1:01:55
, like leaning against it , and
1:01:57
just that hour and a half was one
1:01:59
of my like favorite moments , and
1:02:02
I remember I like put my hands on
1:02:04
my belly and I just had this really sweet
1:02:06
conversation with my babies of we've
1:02:08
got this , we're going to do
1:02:10
this , I'm listening to you
1:02:13
, we're doing this together . And
1:02:15
then , after that hour and a half or so
1:02:17
, they stopped again , and
1:02:20
this time , though , it felt different to
1:02:22
me . It felt like , okay , they're , just
1:02:24
because it started on its own . I was like they're
1:02:26
just giving me this last little
1:02:29
break before I meet
1:02:31
them , like before shit hits the fan . And
1:02:33
so I laid back down , and when
1:02:35
I woke up , there was no contraction and
1:02:37
I was like , oh my God , this
1:02:40
isn't happening . So I got
1:02:42
in the shower and again , this is all
1:02:44
me by myself and
1:02:46
I think I needed that alone time so bad
1:02:48
. I got in the shower and
1:02:51
I had another conversation with my babies
1:02:53
mainly baby A , because a lot
1:02:55
of this was up to him and I was like
1:02:57
, okay , I told you last
1:02:59
night that I was listening . I said
1:03:01
we're in this together . I said we're doing this
1:03:03
. I still mean that there is
1:03:05
something you know that I don't know
1:03:08
. There is something happening inside there
1:03:10
that you know
1:03:12
that I just I can't
1:03:14
know and I'm listening
1:03:16
to you and like this is going to make me cry . But
1:03:19
I told him I'm listening and
1:03:22
so when I got out of the
1:03:25
shower , my midwife
1:03:27
came upstairs and she asked me if she could check me
1:03:29
and I was like , yeah , that was the first check I had had
1:03:31
since my water had been broken and
1:03:34
, mind you , actually was the first check I had had since Sunday
1:03:36
, the past Sunday . So again
1:03:38
, just a refreshed Sunday . I was a five . And
1:03:40
she also said on Sunday I can feel
1:03:42
his butt Like . I feel his butt engaged
1:03:45
. When she checked me that morning it was Friday morning
1:03:47
. She's like I'm going to have to stop
1:03:49
this exam because I think I'm going to traumatize
1:03:52
you if I keep going , because my cervix
1:03:54
had shifted high and
1:03:56
back since Sunday . She's
1:03:58
like you feel like about a four and
1:04:01
I don't feel his butt anymore . I
1:04:03
don't know what I'm feeling . I don't want to keep
1:04:05
examining you to figure it out , but
1:04:07
it's a hip or it's a back
1:04:09
, it's not a butt . And I think
1:04:11
at that moment we both knew we
1:04:14
got to call it and she said you
1:04:16
know , I really think now's the time
1:04:18
to transfer and because
1:04:20
I have had that conversation with him in the
1:04:22
shower , I felt at peace with
1:04:24
that . Maybe not quite yet , like I think
1:04:27
I had to cry and I'm sure I had to process
1:04:29
things a little bit with my husband , but in
1:04:31
that moment I was like , okay , we're doing
1:04:33
this . I'm not willing to force
1:04:35
a contraction pattern on a malpositioned
1:04:37
breech baby at home and risk
1:04:40
cord prolapse , which is already a risk
1:04:42
. But we had planned for that risk
1:04:44
with a butt plugging my cervix
1:04:47
, but not with not a butt plugging my cervix
1:04:49
. And so we slowly
1:04:51
packed the bag . Because I did not
1:04:53
have a bag packed , my midwife called the
1:04:55
OB that we had already established care with
1:04:57
. She was going to perform the surgery . She
1:05:00
let them know we were coming . Unfortunately
1:05:02
, she couldn't come with me because it was
1:05:04
still COVID protocols , because this was February
1:05:06
of 2021 . And
1:05:08
I got to have a really cute , heartfelt
1:05:11
moment with my oldest . I had my mom bring him
1:05:13
back over because he went to my mom's house . She
1:05:16
brought him over and I told him I was going
1:05:18
and everything , and so that was , it
1:05:20
was non-emergent . It was very this
1:05:22
is okay and I'm very consciously
1:05:24
making this choice . And it felt very
1:05:27
autonomous and I speak
1:05:29
to a lot of my clients , not
1:05:31
necessarily telling them specifically my
1:05:33
story if they don't ask me , but this
1:05:35
has brought me so much perspective with clients
1:05:37
of like your plan can change and
1:05:40
you can still make the next
1:05:42
best choice very autonomously
1:05:44
and you are given that space
1:05:47
to make it and it truly felt
1:05:49
like my choice . It didn't feel like , oh well , I
1:05:51
have to have a C-section because this is the
1:05:53
only thing that's left . It was like
1:05:55
, no , I could stay at home , I could
1:05:57
do all of these other things , but at that
1:05:59
moment I was like I don't feel comfortable with that risk
1:06:01
anymore . This is the choice that feels best for us
1:06:04
. So I walked into the hospital . There
1:06:06
was some funny stuff that happened at the hospital that
1:06:08
like pissed me off . The lady at the front
1:06:10
was like , oh girl , I just get the epidural
1:06:13
. She prayed for me in the elevator
1:06:16
and then when we get up to
1:06:18
the room , they're like can we do an ultrasound
1:06:20
to confirm position ? And I was like
1:06:22
I know what position they're in . Oh
1:06:24
, because they said we want to confirm that
1:06:27
you're a candidate for a vaginal birth or
1:06:29
not . I'm like no , no , no , like I'm not here for
1:06:31
that . If there is a vaginal birth happening , I'm
1:06:33
leaving . And then one
1:06:35
resident wanted to give me a vaginal exam
1:06:37
to make sure that I had
1:06:40
enough time to get prepped
1:06:42
and ready for the OR . And I said absolutely
1:06:45
not . There's no contractions happening
1:06:47
. Trust me , there's not a baby coming out
1:06:49
of me . I'll tell you if
1:06:51
you don't have time . And again
1:06:53
, if that's the case , I'm not going back
1:06:55
to the OR . So like it was just funny
1:06:57
. Like some of the protocols that they have
1:07:00
, it's so second nature that
1:07:02
they don't sometimes think to like
1:07:04
put it into the context of what's
1:07:06
happening with this particular woman
1:07:08
. So I declined the vaginal exam . I
1:07:10
did have a nurse walk over to put
1:07:13
something in my drip and did it without
1:07:15
consent and I was like what are you putting in my drip
1:07:17
? She said penicillin . I said for
1:07:19
what she said . Well , because your
1:07:21
water's been broken for almost
1:07:24
24 hours . At that point I think it had
1:07:26
been 24 hours and I was like
1:07:28
well , I'm declining , that , I
1:07:30
don't have the fever , I don't have the shake , like I don't
1:07:32
have an infection . My midwife's
1:07:35
been tracking all of that stuff . I had been
1:07:37
having my temperature taken , all of those things
1:07:39
. So I was like no , thank you . Also
1:07:41
, I wanted to keep my placentas , which was
1:07:43
a whole nother thing . That Obi was like well , I don't
1:07:46
know , and I'm like , okay
1:07:48
, we'll just do it anyways . And
1:07:51
so they were really sweet about that . He actually
1:07:53
even offered to give me my
1:07:55
antibiotic the surgical antibiotics after
1:07:58
the cords had been cut , so that my babies
1:08:00
didn't get antibiotics because I didn't want them to have
1:08:02
that . So that was really sweet of him to
1:08:04
offer . But one thing that I do have a
1:08:06
lot of trauma around , though , with this
1:08:09
was I spoke to a
1:08:11
pediatric nurse team that was going
1:08:13
to be in the OR that I very specifically
1:08:15
said my babies will come directly
1:08:17
to me . I had asked for a clear drape . My
1:08:20
babies were supposed to come directly to me and
1:08:22
for some reason the nurses that were in
1:08:24
that room with me prepping were
1:08:26
not the same nurses that were in the OR
1:08:28
and they took them to the warmer and
1:08:31
I was like livid
1:08:33
, livid . I was
1:08:35
like they were not supposed to go to the warmer , they were supposed
1:08:37
to come directly to me . And I remember
1:08:40
like cussing them out in the OR
1:08:42
, basically saying like where the fuck are
1:08:44
my babies ? And like screaming across the OR
1:08:46
. I think they were only over there for like 30
1:08:48
seconds to a minute and I
1:08:50
like made my husband go over there and get them because
1:08:53
I knew they were fine . Like they lifted them up , I got to
1:08:55
see them through the clear drape but
1:08:57
then they walked that way instead of coming straight
1:08:59
to my chest and I was like so confused . Everybody
1:09:02
apologized to me . After the anesthesiologist
1:09:04
even apologized , the resident came in
1:09:06
and was like we're so sorry that happened . We
1:09:08
don't know why that happened . The nurses after
1:09:10
the fact the postpartum nurses were amazing
1:09:13
. They helped me latch because my mom couldn't
1:09:15
be there right away because of COVID protocols
1:09:18
. They helped me get tandem nursing
1:09:20
set up . Babies were fine , babies
1:09:22
were great . They were seven pounds five ounces and seven
1:09:24
pounds nine ounces and I'm
1:09:26
pretty sure the seven pounds five ounces which
1:09:28
was my baby A was only because he had
1:09:30
been pooping for an entire day . I
1:09:33
think he would have weighed more because at all the growth
1:09:35
scans he was measuring bigger . So
1:09:37
, yeah , that was my second
1:09:39
experience and home birth , midwifery
1:09:42
care , postpartum 10 out of 10
1:09:44
recommend . They are also your pediatrician
1:09:46
for the first six to 12 weeks , depending on
1:09:48
your midway . So I did not have to ever go
1:09:51
out to the doctor's office . I
1:09:53
didn't have to do any of that , which was so nice
1:09:56
.
1:09:56
So yeah , I love like you answered
1:09:59
literally every single question that I had as
1:10:01
a labor and delivery nurse going but what if ? But
1:10:03
what if , but what if ? And I think
1:10:05
that this just really highlights
1:10:07
how hospital
1:10:09
and medicalized birth and
1:10:12
again , I'm a labor and delivery nurse but
1:10:14
I'm hoping to be a part of the change
1:10:16
it comes down to . I
1:10:18
wrote it down because what I heard was that you got
1:10:20
more one to one attention than
1:10:23
you would have ever gotten in the hospital . So
1:10:25
when we're looking at safety that one to
1:10:27
one care and having all of your safety
1:10:30
checks done you had your BPPs
1:10:33
, your babies were passing the BPPs . Your
1:10:35
midwife was monitoring them at
1:10:37
your home . Was it Dopplers or was it
1:10:39
? Did she have some sort of machine that I've never heard of
1:10:41
?
1:10:42
No , we were using Doppler .
1:10:43
Still , they're skilled in that , so
1:10:45
I in the hospital . It's rare that you would do
1:10:47
Dopplers with true
1:10:50
intermittent monitoring . I think there might
1:10:52
be another word of but when
1:10:54
you just basically listened to , yeah because
1:10:58
we also do a different form where it's like 20 minutes
1:11:00
on and then 40 minutes off
1:11:02
, just because it's easier when you have two patients . So
1:11:05
to have to go in and listen through a contraction
1:11:07
and then listen to the other babies were a contraction
1:11:09
. We just don't have the staffing for that . No , you guys
1:11:11
are .
1:11:12
So what I'm ?
1:11:13
hearing is yeah , it's all about saving
1:11:15
money , right , and it's all about liability
1:11:17
. So they're balancing liability versus saving money
1:11:20
, not necessarily safety and what's best for the patient
1:11:22
. So I just wish
1:11:24
that there was a way
1:11:26
that we could work with different levels
1:11:28
, that they all worked together and that
1:11:30
we could create what you have created in
1:11:33
your birth experiences , where you have the midwife
1:11:35
, you have the doula , you have the
1:11:37
birth center and you have the hospital
1:11:39
, and there's just different levels
1:11:41
. Once we've gotten to a point where maybe
1:11:43
it's not safe here , then maybe
1:11:45
it's safe here , and then maybe here . But instead
1:11:47
of having all these protocols
1:11:50
for liability like the , I
1:11:52
just want to check you to make sure that you're not going to
1:11:54
deliver imminently . We can do all the preps
1:11:56
before the oh or what . No
1:11:59
, no , no . There's a lot of
1:12:01
mindless things that go on
1:12:03
based on protocol , based on trying to
1:12:05
fit people into a box at the hospital
1:12:07
so that they can have their policies . That
1:12:10
, I'm hearing , don't
1:12:12
happen with the midwifery
1:12:14
care at home and in the birth center . You
1:12:17
have your protocols , but you're going
1:12:19
to check for safety before you make that decision
1:12:21
, and I wish that that . That is the
1:12:24
epitome of informed decision making and
1:12:26
autonomy and we don't have that in the hospital
1:12:28
. I mean we do , but it's not to that
1:12:30
level because we're looking at the whole
1:12:33
floor and trying to make sure that everybody's
1:12:35
safe . So your care might have to
1:12:37
wait because this person is having an
1:12:39
emergency and this doctor
1:12:42
needs to be there . So you may
1:12:44
get the hospitalist , the person that wasn't scheduled
1:12:46
to be . Your doctor will come in
1:12:48
and help and we do have those
1:12:50
things . They're there for reason , for safety and all
1:12:52
that stuff , and I agree with that . But it
1:12:54
just sounds like the perception that
1:12:56
I hear at the hospital
1:12:58
of home birth and birth center . Birth
1:13:01
needs to be adjusted
1:13:03
. I don't think you can speak for every birth center or
1:13:05
every midwife , because you know , just like I
1:13:07
can't speak for every OB , there's
1:13:09
people that are better and
1:13:11
people that are not necessarily the
1:13:14
best , you know , and maybe don't have the
1:13:16
best intentions or are more in it for
1:13:18
not necessarily the one to one care , but
1:13:20
you know , to just get people through to
1:13:22
make the money . But I think that it's a
1:13:24
spectrum and so I don't think anybody goes
1:13:26
into it thinking that , but that's what tends to
1:13:28
happen . But I just
1:13:30
love how that you were able to take the
1:13:33
information that you had in the moment and
1:13:35
make an informed decision in the moment , and
1:13:37
when it got to the point where you weren't comfortable with
1:13:39
the risk anymore , that's when you were able
1:13:41
to choose to have the
1:13:43
C-section and I hear
1:13:45
a lot of people in . I mean , we
1:13:48
get real nervous in the hospital once people go past
1:13:50
39 weeks because of our
1:13:52
own trauma , and you talked earlier about
1:13:54
making decisions out of fear , and
1:13:56
I think that we probably do that a lot , and so
1:13:58
I feel like it's time that , as a community
1:14:01
, we take a step back and really just question what
1:14:03
our intentions are and where we're making
1:14:05
these decisions from , and try
1:14:07
to use cases like yours
1:14:09
to understand what true evidence-based
1:14:12
practices and unfortunately , evidence-based
1:14:14
practices is what we know now so
1:14:16
let's start to learn what
1:14:18
else we can learn from people that
1:14:21
are really trying to
1:14:23
have more autonomy
1:14:25
in how they're treated and how they're birthing
1:14:27
, because birth is so medicalized in hospitals
1:14:30
and it doesn't necessarily
1:14:32
have to be yeah . Yeah , unless
1:14:34
there's risks , unless the risks
1:14:36
are there .
1:14:37
Yes , there's a place for
1:14:39
all of it . It's all necessary
1:14:41
. It's just sometimes
1:14:44
the pendulum swings too far
1:14:46
in one direction , and
1:14:48
this happens on both sides of the spectrum
1:14:50
. And . I am always a huge proponent
1:14:52
of saying there is no right or wrong answer
1:14:55
. It's what is right for you , what
1:14:57
feels good to you . It goes
1:14:59
down to that individualized care , that
1:15:01
. What are your actual
1:15:04
risk factors ? Yeah , sure , your
1:15:07
higher risk as a twin mom
1:15:09
, for instance . I'm just using that as an example
1:15:11
because you have a higher
1:15:13
chance of maybe getting
1:15:15
gestational diabetes or getting hypertension
1:15:17
or getting preeclampsia , but it doesn't actually
1:15:20
mean that you have those things . It just
1:15:22
means you have a higher risk of getting them . So the
1:15:24
term high risk is so relative
1:15:27
. Risk is relative . Safe is relative . None
1:15:29
of those things are actually definable
1:15:32
in birth and no matter where
1:15:34
you give birth or how you give birth
1:15:36
, there's risk . There's risk to
1:15:38
getting in your car and driving every day . We
1:15:40
cannot take risk out of life
1:15:42
. We cannot take the unknown
1:15:44
out of life . So it's like how
1:15:47
can we pull the information
1:15:49
in ? And I always say to information comes
1:15:51
from two places . It comes from the outside
1:15:53
, the research , the evidence , and then it comes from your intuition
1:15:56
. And you have to be able to run the
1:15:58
book information , the research information
1:16:00
through your own personal filter
1:16:02
and then connect with providers
1:16:05
that are in alignment with that . Because
1:16:08
me having a birth with
1:16:10
a midwife who was like , well
1:16:13
, I've never been trained in twins , I've never been trained
1:16:15
in breach , I'm not comfortable with this . And
1:16:17
me just being like , well , I'm comfortable with it , so
1:16:19
get comfortable with it is also not
1:16:21
safe . You have to be with providers
1:16:24
that are also at the same comfort
1:16:26
level and the comfort level of your
1:16:28
desires , and if they're not
1:16:30
, that doesn't make them bad . That
1:16:32
just means you're not a right fit and that's
1:16:34
okay . When clients tell
1:16:36
me , well , my doctor won't allow me to have
1:16:38
a breach vaginal birth , or
1:16:41
my doctor won't allow me to go past
1:16:43
38 weeks with twins , and I'm like , well
1:16:45
, first of all , they can't allow you to do anything
1:16:48
. You get to choose to
1:16:50
change doctors if that's not in alignment
1:16:52
with what you want and , mind you , like
1:16:54
I totally understand there's nuances to
1:16:56
this Like changing doctors is always
1:16:59
the easiest thing and insurance is
1:17:01
a play and location is at play . But if
1:17:03
we reframe our brains to everything
1:17:06
as an option , I have the choice . I
1:17:09
get to choose to birth with
1:17:11
this doctor who wants me to deliver
1:17:13
twins at 38 weeks because
1:17:15
that is their comfort level , and I am choosing
1:17:18
to do that because my doctor
1:17:20
is most comfortable with that . That is still a
1:17:22
choice and that is so much more empowering
1:17:24
than well , my doctor
1:17:27
didn't let me and it's just it's like we've got
1:17:29
to take back that reframe . And again , I know
1:17:31
I'm saying this on a very high level and this is so
1:17:33
nuanced in each individual's situation
1:17:36
. But going back to what you're saying
1:17:39
about all of the protocols
1:17:41
and stuff , so much of this is like so
1:17:44
systemic that you
1:17:46
are part of the change . The nurses
1:17:49
I tell clients all the time I'm like
1:17:51
your nurse is going to make or break your
1:17:53
experience Like good labor and delivery nurses
1:17:55
are so vital and ones that
1:17:58
bring that autonomy into the hospital
1:18:00
, like we need more of those
1:18:02
. And we need doulas that
1:18:04
are able and willing to work with hospital
1:18:06
staff and willing to step into that role , because
1:18:09
that's where women honestly
1:18:11
probably need the most support . And
1:18:13
we have to be able to
1:18:16
somehow work within
1:18:18
this broken system
1:18:20
, because there's so many things
1:18:22
on a systemic level that are broken
1:18:25
about it , or maybe even not
1:18:27
broken , as some would say , but just working the way there's
1:18:29
supposed to be , but just not in the favor
1:18:31
of centering women , and
1:18:34
we have to be able to do that
1:18:36
and it's slowly going . It's going
1:18:38
to make that change . But , like you said
1:18:40
, when you have fear of litigation and that's
1:18:42
coming from two places , you know doctors
1:18:45
are scared to get sued because
1:18:47
women also don't trust themselves
1:18:50
and they put all of their trust in their doctors
1:18:52
. So anything that goes wrong they
1:18:54
instantly blame the doctor . And now
1:18:56
I'm totally not saying that there aren't
1:18:58
cases where the doctor is to blame , but
1:19:00
it happens less in care
1:19:03
, like for instance with my midwife
1:19:05
. If something would have happened to my
1:19:07
baby because I chose to push
1:19:09
contraction pattern on a malposition to breach
1:19:11
baby and I had a cord prolapse
1:19:13
and he got lots of oxygen and
1:19:15
say he didn't make it , which was a totally
1:19:17
bang that was running through my brain , that
1:19:20
would not have been her fault because I
1:19:22
took full ownership of that decision . I
1:19:24
was not willing to take that risk
1:19:26
. But had I been willing to take that risk and
1:19:29
he would have been born just fine , I would have been
1:19:31
able to say I fucking did that . And had he not
1:19:33
been just a child , I would have also had to say
1:19:35
I have to live with that . It's not my midwife's
1:19:38
fault . I don't get to go sue her because
1:19:40
something happened to my baby because of a choice I
1:19:42
made . But in the hospital we give away
1:19:44
so much of our power that that's
1:19:46
also why we become so
1:19:49
sue happy . In a sense
1:19:51
we're literally saying okay
1:19:53
, I'm going to do everything you say , as long as
1:19:55
you give me a healthy baby . So when we
1:19:57
don't do what the doctors say , the doctors are like
1:19:59
well then , I can't promise you a healthy baby . Like
1:20:02
it's this tug of war and
1:20:04
if the more we can trust
1:20:06
ourselves as women and trust birth
1:20:08
and trust the process , the more
1:20:11
and more doctors don't have
1:20:13
to fear litigation as much , if that makes
1:20:15
sense but it's not going to have to be a day like
1:20:17
it's not going to have .
1:20:18
Nope , it's not . We got to be part of the solution
1:20:20
and slowly , maybe by the time our kids are
1:20:22
having kids , I know system will be a
1:20:24
little bit better .
1:20:25
No , we're not going to change them in a day , but
1:20:27
what you can do is you can understand
1:20:29
your fears , you can understand your preconceived
1:20:31
notions , you can decide how you want
1:20:34
this experience to feel and look like . You
1:20:36
can arm yourself with information
1:20:38
and ask really , really good
1:20:40
questions and align yourself with providers
1:20:43
that have the same values and desires as you
1:20:45
, and get support along the way . So
1:20:47
there is a lot that is still in your control
1:20:49
. There is so much that you can do , and
1:20:52
that's why I do what I do . That's why I
1:20:54
have the program I have and appreciate
1:20:57
the work that you do too , because , you know , just
1:20:59
having these conversations is another big
1:21:01
piece .
1:21:02
Absolutely . I think that it's super important , and I
1:21:04
learned so much , too , that I can take to my practice
1:21:06
, and I'm hoping that other nurses listen and
1:21:08
providers can learn more too
1:21:10
. Well , taylor , it has been
1:21:12
so informative and
1:21:14
enlightening to talk to you today
1:21:16
, and I hope that this is one of
1:21:18
many future conversations , especially after
1:21:20
. What are you having ? Are
1:21:23
you finally having some girls ?
1:21:24
I'm having a boy and a girl One
1:21:26
girl , okay , so you're getting your girl
1:21:29
. I'm having a
1:21:31
girl with five boys . I just expected
1:21:33
it , but there is a girl there .
1:21:35
So that female energy was somewhere .
1:21:37
I look back on that and I'm like that female energy
1:21:39
had to have been just me , like I think it
1:21:41
was me , maybe Like me stepping
1:21:43
into my female energy , I think
1:21:45
is what really ?
1:21:47
was being called in . Wow
1:21:49
, that is profound . I love that . Well
1:21:51
, taylor , thank you so much . Thank
1:21:53
you .
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