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We only have one guest today. It's Jackie McMullan. We're going to talk NBA.

2:50

There's a lot to cover first.

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Our friends from Pearl jam.

2:54

All

3:15

right. Jackie McMullan is here taping this Tuesday morning, rainy day in LA.

3:21

I don't know what the weather is like in Boston.

3:22

Weird times, weird times in the NBA.

3:26

A lot of topsy-turvy stuff.

3:29

I think I want to start here cause I haven't talked about this on the podcast yet.

3:33

We have Luca and we have Zion.

3:34

These two guys that we were thinking were potentially the future of the league, along with Yannis and a couple others.

3:42

If you're looking at the 27 and unders Luca shows up at a shape and he's battled a bunch of injuries and just looks too, he's looked too heavy all year and it's really disappointing.

3:51

We can talk about him in a second. The Zion thing is more alarming because we have this foot injury that we found out about right before the season.

3:59

They were kind of like, yeah, he probably will be ready for starting the season.

4:04

We knew that wasn't true because it was a Jones fracture.

4:06

There were sights of him just looking way bigger than he used to.

4:10

And there's all kinds of bearing reports on how much he weighs.

4:12

Now we found out there's a setback.

4:14

That team sucks odds are they shove him for another season.

4:19

It looks like, and he has an extension coming up.

4:22

This is the first time.

4:24

And I was all in on him. I was like, I don't know what you guys are seeing.

4:28

I think this guy has a chance to be a generational offensive player.

4:31

The question was, can he stay on the court?

4:33

I'm starting to get really, really worried.

4:36

I don't think I'm alone. Where do you, where do you stand?

4:38

What have you heard?

4:40

Well, when you start having reports that you weight 330 pounds, and you're not an offensive lineman for the New York giants or something, you're, you're in trouble and, and you know, our eye tests, right?

4:53

There's always the eye test. And I we've talked about this a thousand times.

4:56

Sometimes guys look big and they look overweight and they're not, that's just not true.

5:02

Zion. Yeah. He was playing too big, even when he was healthy and he's a force to be reckoned with.

5:08

I could see where everybody falls in love with him.

5:09

He's got a great personality. You know, he should be one of these guys you're talking about one of these generational players that we're going to have on the cover of all those video games.

5:18

Everybody loves so much, but there was just the thing.

5:22

The thing about him, aside from the weight, because I do think it's related somehow is, you know, at the end of last year there was stuff reports coming out of his camp.

5:30

I never know what that means. His family unhappy with Stan van Gundy, sorry, he's gone.

5:35

You know, he's out. And, and now, you know, unhappy with the way the pelicans have handled things.

5:40

Well, hold on a minute here.

5:42

How about the way you're handling things because ultimately you're responsible for your own body and I've, I've watched this for 40 years now in sports.

5:52

And back in the day in the old school days, you were, it was up to you to take care of yourself during the off season because teams didn't have 14 trainers and they couldn't afford to send someone to have a state-of-the-art facility that you could show up to every day.

6:06

Zion has all of these things at his disposal, not to mention a multi-million dollar contract with a shoe company that you think would be invested in making sure that he's training properly and eating properly.

6:18

Every team has one or more nutritionists.

6:21

So I think particularly in this day and age, bill, that it's come to this for him is extremely alarming because there is help everywhere you turn.

6:32

All you have to do is ask or if you're the team you should be proactive and require it.

6:38

So yes, I do think this is a major problem, a major problem for the pelicans and, and you know, he's one of those guys and we talk about this all the time, these great young players, Donovan Mitchell at the Utah jazz, you know, he signed, he signed the extension.

6:52

Will he stay well? He he'll end up happily ever after there, Trey young with the Atlanta Hawks, she's become the face of that franchise.

6:58

You know, they're having troubles. Now we could talk about that if you want, I do defense.

7:04

Right, right.

7:06

But my point is, these are the guys that, you know, you're, you're supposed to, are you gonna, are we convinced they're going to live happily ever after in their market?

7:13

Didn't you realize from the day one was Zion that do it at New York city in his eyes, stars in his eyes about being somewhere else, almost from the beginning.

7:22

So if I'm the pelicans, I am really, really bummed out for a lot of reasons.

7:30

This is an amazing sliding doors thing for them, with all the ways the team they could have put together could happen versus how it happened, where you have, well, let's start with the Xi'an physical piece, the older I get.

7:42

And I'm sure you hit this point at some point, as you recovering the league where you just kind of see the same patterns over and over again and all right, what, what, what constitutes success for somebody?

7:53

What constitutes greatness?

7:54

What are, what are like the things you need?

7:56

And I think as, as I look at somebody like Xi'an, he has all these role models around the league where you can look at somebody like LeBron and you go, all right, that guy, all he cares about is putting his body in the optimal shape to be good.

8:12

And that's it. And now it's year 19 for him.

8:15

And he's still an elite player.

8:16

You look at somebody like Yannis, who just has it, like he just gets it.

8:21

And that sounds like this dumb media thing where you're like, oh, I wish all the guys were like, ganas.

8:26

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying Yannis gets it.

8:28

Like he wants to get better. He understands how important his body is, has staying in shape is, and he's getting that.

8:34

He's maximizing whatever his potential is.

8:36

And we see that if you watch the, the, the man in the arena about Brady, same thing, right?

8:42

You see Brady scrambling on Sunday.

8:43

He's faster now than he was when he was 24, because he's optimizing everything he can get out of his, his body.

8:51

And I think that's why Zion and Luke, I, I feel like it's the same conversation for each Luca that as bad as Diane, I think Zion has, he's already had some major injuries.

8:59

Luca has not. But to not understand, even at a young age, this is my body.

9:05

This is my life. I have a chance to be truly great.

9:08

And to just not be in shape is like unfathomable to be aspect.

9:12

We have so much evidence. Now we have so many decades, this isn't Larry Bird in the mid eighties, you know, because they trade Rick Robey.

9:18

He's decides to not drink beer as much.

9:21

Like we know all this stuff that we have, all these tools, we have crier chambers and hyperbaric chambers and yoga and politesse, and we know how to eat.

9:30

And like Geraldo, Bob was on the podcast a couple weeks ago, talking about how Luca loves sweet tea and the Dallas locker.

9:36

I'm like, great athletes. Shouldn't drink sweet tea.

9:39

You know? And I, I'm just, I know these guys are young, but I'm also amazed they don't get it Well.

9:45

And I think the problem for Luca that's compounded by the fact he goes home.

9:49

He goes home in the summer to Slovenia where his he's an absolute God.

9:52

And he's, he's an absolute God here in this country, pretty much too.

9:56

But he goes home there and you know, I've, I went back and looked because I thought I'll give, I'll give Luca credit for being so very honest and saying, you know what?

10:04

I played in the Olympics. I took three weeks off.

10:07

I relaxed. Maybe I relaxed a bit too much.

10:09

At least he's owning it to a certain degree that you get points with me for that.

10:13

But I went, I went back and looked because this was very familiar to me because last December, do you remember the, I don't know if you remember this mark Cuban did an interview and he said, well, I can explain why.

10:24

Look, it looks heavy to you guys. Why he looks out of weight?

10:26

You know, he was all set to train with the Slovenian national team and you know, then COVID hit.

10:30

So, so he couldn't train with this selenium national team.

10:34

So what he, he can't train it.

10:36

All Right. So, you know, he's just getting seven big bucks.

10:40

Right? So again, here's my point. So I think it's always been a problem when guys go home and they, and they, they they're relying on themselves.

10:48

Now, if I were the Dallas Mavericks, Oh,

10:51

by the way, your kitchen is somewhere, you'll figure it out.

10:54

Yeah. But he didn't early on. And that's the point I'm going to make with both of these guys.

10:58

They're very, very young go back and look at a young Tom Brady.

11:01

I was standing bill three feet from him when he had his hands on his head, when they won the first super bowl, he did not look what he looks like now.

11:09

And he was a hell of a lot younger, somewhere along the way he started to realize this was part of gaining an edge, you know?

11:17

And that's what it is. Gaining an edge. Yeah.

11:20

Yeah. This gets that right now. I really do.

11:22

I think he, a hundred percent gets it, But

11:24

not everybody does. Right. Like Russell, Westbrook always got it.

11:28

Right. But not everybody gets it right out of the box.

11:30

And if you're Luca, you're one of the best players in the world.

11:33

Whether you drink sweet tea or not now, maybe, maybe now he's realizing, cause he's out with ankle soreness.

11:39

He's okay. I've gotta, I gotta, I gotta change this a bit.

11:43

He's got a new coach.

11:44

He's got an owner that, you know, swears by him.

11:48

So maybe they sit down and say, look, when you go home to Sylvania this summer, you're going home with some people.

11:53

And there, cause we know you want to work, but sometimes when you get home, you get comfortable.

11:57

Now Zion, that to me is a completely different situation because the injuries are serious.

12:02

Number one, he hasn't even established himself enough.

12:06

He hasn't played enough to really establish number two.

12:08

And clearly the trust between the player and the organization is nowhere near the same as it is in Dallas with Cuban and with dontcha.

12:18

So I think, you know, one is very, very precarious.

12:22

The other one to me, it can be solved.

12:25

I mean, there's, there's other players we've seen as they went through their careers that realized, I mean, again, not everybody's Ray Allen, right?

12:33

Right. Yellen Ray Allen played as long as he did because he was meticulous and he has OCD.

12:38

He was meticulous in everything. He ate everything he did.

12:41

And, and I've always argued to the Kobe Bryant.

12:44

The most underrated part of all his considerable skills was his longevity.

12:49

Its longevity as is a great underrated skill.

12:53

And it takes a tremendous amount of work.

12:55

And that's why you do have to look at LeBron and say, wow, pretty amazing.

13:00

It's maintenance, right? It's like, if you have a nice car that, you know, you have like some old classic car, that car has to be in a garage and covered and you got to eat.

13:09

That's what these bodies are like. Tom Brady is an interesting one because you know, the first couple of Superbowls that run in the, in the first half of the two thousands, he's hanging out with what McDonough and Kevin Brady.

13:20

And they're going back bay five nights a week.

13:22

And he talks about it. And the man in the arena, he's like I realized at some point, like everything I was doing off the field affected the results on the field.

13:30

And I wanted what happened on the field so badly that I realized I had to change what I did off the field.

13:37

And that's why I give Luca Mulligan.

13:39

And I'm much more concerned about the Zion thing.

13:42

Do you know how many games Diane has played?

13:43

What do you think off the top of your head?

13:45

What do you know? How many NBA games?

13:48

25 or something? Maybe more, a little more.

13:50

Am I Okay?

13:52

I'm thinking last year. So 25 last year.

13:54

So 54. Yeah. 85 total.

13:57

Here's his name is

13:58

see to me in my mind, he isn't there at all.

14:02

You know, he's just not there at all.

14:04

So I'm going low on that. Imagine that I'm going low on that number.

14:07

I was thinking 25 games last year. How many did he play last year?

14:11

So he's 61 last year. He was pretty healthy.

14:13

And he was in decent shape. Not incredibly.

14:15

Isn't that funny? I don't remember him ever that way.

14:17

Cause I just look at him and I guess maybe I was one of the ones that came in with the preconceived notion that you're, you're carrying too much weight to be an effective NBA player for long, you know, Charles Barkley's another person we should mention.

14:29

Charles Barkley came in as the round Mount of rebound actually gained 25 pounds on purpose.

14:33

So that six years wouldn't draft him.

14:35

It didn't work. Moses Malone finally got ahold of him.

14:38

He got in at some point in his career when he was in Philly and a bit in Phoenix, in tremendous shape.

14:43

And then of course let it go near the end in Houston.

14:46

So done.

14:48

Why Carl Malone probably passed on the all-time list cause he had these extra years that his body way more seriously bark is a good example.

14:56

Barclay also had Dr.

14:58

Jade, Moses and Andrew, Tony and Mo cheeks.

15:00

And he's talked about how much it meant to have that Major

15:05

influence on him. Can you Go back to you go back to new Orleans and this is like the sliding doors thing where basically every move they make doesn't work out, right?

15:15

They have the fourth pick in the draft.

15:16

There is Garland who we're going to talk about Cleveland after the break.

15:21

Like they could've just taken Derrius Garland.

15:22

They couldn't, they could have taken the Andrei hunter.

15:25

They trade back and you know, they get Alexander Walker and Jackson Hayes, whatever, whatever that trait turned out to be.

15:33

But there was like blue chippers on the board.

15:35

They had a blue tripper and drew holiday and they banked on, you know, maybe Yonis doesn't stay in Milwaukee.

15:41

Maybe we'll get these picks. And it was always the promise of what's to come.

15:44

They could have put together a really nice team around these guys.

15:48

They had Lonzo Lonzo as a winning player.

15:52

They had him and they couldn't figure out they had multiple coaches.

15:57

You know, that, that just the turmoil, the situation.

16:00

And you know, I think Griffin it's one of the all-time bad jobs.

16:04

I think he did an okay job in Cleveland, but it's one of the all time bad jobs in new Orleans.

16:08

Like they are in a horrible place.

16:10

Desire is a complete disaster.

16:12

They don't seem like they have any oversight of him.

16:15

And now you're looking at, okay, he's due for an extension.

16:19

How

16:19

are

16:19

you

16:19

possibly

16:19

going

16:19

to

16:19

give

16:19

him

16:19

an

16:24

extension? The Denver Michael Porter thing that would scare the shit out of me for life for any other extension where it's like, all right, here's the guy with red flags everywhere.

16:32

Ah, fuck it. Let's just do it.

16:36

Yeah. I mean, it's amazing when you think about all these players, these young players with these serious serious problems at the age of 2122, and that makes me go back to some, I remember I did a story a few years back about, you know, peak performance.

16:50

That's basically was the gist of it and the idea of over-training in AAU games and how, when kids are young, the mileage they put on their bodies, they don't even know they're doing it and no one is overseeing it.

17:01

And, and, and he, he used Michael Porter as an example.

17:03

Now I don't know if that's fair or unfair.

17:05

I really don't know because I haven't been around Michael Porter's training staff.

17:09

I wasn't there at his AAU games, but you know, a kid like Zion, you wonder about the pounding and the miles you put on before you've even gotten to this part of league where it gets really difficult, really fast.

17:19

And some of the old school guys talk about that sometimes, you know, I wasn't playing eight games a weekend and traveling 300 miles to do it in my parents' station wagon.

17:30

You know, there's just, it takes a toll.

17:32

And that's the other thing too, is we, we talk about game management and it's interesting to me that all these players and teams that know better are still letting like Kevin Durant, for instance, play 36 or 37 minutes.

17:44

Crazy. Right. Crazy.

17:45

But that's Nash being like a warrior.

17:47

Who's like, I was great player. I get it.

17:49

But I would be really more careful with the rent.

17:52

I just, yeah. Yeah, because we have all these, we have all this data now and I know people hate data, but it's valuable.

17:57

We have data that tells us that rest is important.

18:00

That, that, that load management is a real thing that pop isn't crazy.

18:05

Why anyone would ever Del pop anyway, you know, The

18:09

wear and tear thing with kids. I remember that piece, she wrote it was really good.

18:12

And I have a, I have a couple of friends who had kids playing in a basketball and they would tell me about what the weekend was like.

18:19

Ah, and, and I just couldn't believe it.

18:22

I couldn't believe how many games that were in one weekend.

18:24

And it wasn't like when I was at holy cross and show house and I would play intramurals for three hours.

18:29

We weren't then getting up and doing that the next day for another seven hours, you know?

18:34

And I think that there's such pressure.

18:35

There's so much money at stake and they just constantly more and more games, more and more.

18:39

Let's go, let's go. And we're, you know, we're off on a little tangent here, but so my daughter played AAU basketball and my daughter was a very fine high school athlete.

18:47

She was not a great basketball player. In fact, basketball was probably her worst sport.

18:50

The one she loved the most, she wanted to play AAU, but we just were not committed as a family to doing that kind of pace practice required.

18:59

And then the travel card.

19:01

And plus she wasn't good enough. Let me state that first and foremost, she was not going to get a college scholarship, no matter how many tournaments we played it.

19:08

She was very fortunate to get to play at a division three school and have herself a great time.

19:12

But what we ended up doing was joining a new team that we actually formed among the parents, where we practice at a local gym.

19:18

We had study hall the first hour I was, I ended up being an like a, not really a coach, more of an assistant volunteer, if you will.

19:25

And they, if, if you didn't have your homework done, the first hour you were in the gym, you were in the classroom next to the gym, getting your work done.

19:31

This is all well and good for kids.

19:32

You know, we weren't entirely white team, but mostly suburban white kids who can pay, whose parents could pay for college.

19:39

Now think about young kids from the inner city, whether they're white or black, whose families can't afford it.

19:45

And the pressure becomes, I need to go to Zales turns because these kid needs to be discovered.

19:49

Otherwise he can't, he or she can't go to college because we can't afford it.

19:55

And it's just, it's a scary, scary, but that's where we're off on a tangent.

19:59

We need to don't we, we don't need to go down that rabbit hole.

20:02

I think the wear and tear of Xi'an plus like we have pretty good ways now of just looking at somebody running style, their gait, the stress they put on different parts of their bodies and their people are always worried about Zion.

20:13

There were always these, you know, YouTube doctor detectives who would break down these clips.

20:18

And like, I don't like the way he, he puts a lot of pressure on the outside of his legs.

20:23

I'm at the point with Zion where I'm about to drop a pretty big question on you, but we're going to take a break.

20:31

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All right, coming back. Here's my Xi'an question because I don't think new Orleans can give him that extension.

22:42

That actually could be the end of basketball, new Orleans.

22:46

Now maybe that's okay. Maybe that maybe it's time for them to get out of that market and go to Seattle or Vegas or whatever.

22:53

Fair point fair point. If you're, if you're a team like the Knicks and you basically botched last summer in a whole bunch of different ways, and you're kind of in no man's land, you're not, you're one of the 10 worst teams in the league.

23:07

Now, Randall, you made a bet on hoping that last year was who he was.

23:12

And it turns out last year was probably a little bit of an aberration.

23:14

And the guy we saw in the playoffs who was horrendous, that that's not who he is either, but it's somewhere between, between those two.

23:23

And now you're like, holy shit, we're paying this guy 25 billion a year.

23:28

Do you make a move on Zion right now?

23:31

And if you're the pelicans, what do I have to give up?

23:33

It's always, what do I have to give up?

23:35

If you're the pelicans, do you look at this? And you go, he's going to leave at some point, he's certainly going to miss this season.

23:43

We don't know if he's ever going to get back. And like, he's an asset that he might not be the same kind of asset in a year.

23:49

You don't have the pieces to put around him.

23:52

You don't have fans coming to your games.

23:53

Anyway, is this weirdly, is this weirdly a trade asset?

23:57

And if you're the Knicks, you think when you look at it and you go, okay, I have this distressed asset in a terrible situation.

24:05

I can bring him in. We can just throw a team of people at him in a ton of money and try to get his body.

24:11

Right. And now we could have one of the 10 best players in the league.

24:13

I would over pay for that. If I was this, That's

24:17

a really interesting thought.

24:19

You're a clever guy, bill.

24:22

Yeah. I was just, I was trying to think about as the next, what would I do?

24:25

What would by movie? And I would, I would be calling Indiana constantly trying to get some bonus.

24:30

That'd be my way. W but I'd also be calling the Sixers and say, look, let's yeah, gimme Simmons.

24:37

And, and maybe I can, you know, let's get a third team involved.

24:42

Maybe I can end up with, you know, with maybe it is with Indiana, maybe do a three team deal and I give you some pigs and we move things around.

24:51

And I end up with Simmons, if I'm the next, I think that helps me a lot.

24:56

Yeah. But that would involve, so What are the six years?

24:59

Six years would have to, I'm

25:01

rich Paul dealing with worldwide west.

25:03

Leah rose. Pretty sure that's not happening.

25:07

Yeah. But you know what, if, if rich Paul and I, I think you, sometimes you put that stuff aside cause you got to get business done.

25:12

I don't know. That's what I mean. You gotta, you gotta do what's best for your client.

25:17

You know, he tried to steal all their clients 10 years ago.

25:19

He tried to take the entire basketball roster and when he left, So

25:26

let me ask. But if you're the next, like, what will you give up?

25:28

Like, you're going to have to give up RJ Barrett or who do you give up?

25:32

You know, you're gonna have to give up a lot, probably a pick.

25:34

You definitely have to a pick My

25:36

favorite shade. My favorite shade for the decks, or if you're talking about Zion, No,

25:41

I'm talking, I'm talking about Simmons, like a three three-way with the Pacers.

25:45

So you end up with, if you're the, so like the Sixers to me was Simmons this top 30 player thing.

25:53

Who is it? I mean, I just don't see it.

25:55

So, so now you have to figure out a way to end up with like some bonus and carousel of air or something, you know?

26:04

Yeah. But it's a bonus. Does it make sense for the Sixers?

26:06

That's the part that doesn't Yeah. All right.

26:08

So miles Turner, or how about TJ Warren?

26:11

I don't know. I'm just throwing names at you like two really good players.

26:16

So I, we can, I always segue into the No,

26:19

no, hold on. Cause I have a point on this.

26:22

Okay. You know, who makes sense for the Sixers Ben Simmons?

26:26

He's kind of exactly, exactly what they need.

26:30

Somebody who can handle the ball and play defense.

26:32

They, I watch them and it's like, that's the guy they need, You

26:35

know what? You're walking right into my plate.

26:37

So I looked it up for you.

26:39

And last year the Sixers were number three Fastbreak transition points.

26:45

Okay. This is very rudimentary. I know people don't like get bogged down with that this year, their 13th.

26:50

Okay. Last year. What?

26:52

Just basic as basic offenses, you can get points per game.

26:56

Number nine last year, 21st in the league this year.

26:59

It points per game.

27:02

Okay. Assists 17th in the league this year, last year, 24th in the league this year.

27:08

So what does Simmons do for you?

27:10

He can move the ball before you, but mostly in transitions.

27:13

He makes you run and defensively.

27:15

He has an impact on the game. So you're right.

27:18

What they missed is him. Now the problem is he can't go back there.

27:21

And, and while just quickly, while we were talking about Ben Simmons to the Knicks, are you sure that a guy that has some questions about his mental health wants to go to New York?

27:31

Yeah. I don't see that one. The Simmons thing.

27:34

I like maxi, but I don't know if he's a starting point card yet.

27:37

And the way I think he's an energy guy off the bench overqualified for that.

27:42

I don't think he's a, I got to make sure everybody on my team is getting some and oh, Danny green has gotten a shot in a while.

27:48

I gotta get he's basically I go to the basket guy with the Knicks though that the obvious trade to me seems to be Turner top and pick something else where Turner is actually what the Knicks need.

28:02

They need like a real center. I think the Mitchell Robinson thing has probably run its course at this point.

28:06

But, and if you're Indiana, you got to pick between one of those two guys and they're both assets.

28:11

You can get something legitimate for them.

28:13

Now, if we're talking about Zion and what the next would have to give up for them, they have a, they have a bunch of picks, right?

28:20

They can do a bunch of that stuff.

28:22

They have top and they have RJ Barrett and there's a world where the pelicans could do this.

28:27

And then they spin it as we don't think this guy's ever going to be in shape like two weeks later.

28:32

And we Just don't think he's ever going to stay here.

28:35

You know, the combo of them.

28:37

So

28:37

with

28:37

the

28:37

Simmons

28:37

thing,

28:37

I

28:37

can't

28:37

tell

28:37

what's

28:37

real

28:37

and

28:37

not

28:37

real

28:37

because

28:37

we

28:37

never

28:37

know

28:37

anymore

28:37

in

28:37

this

28:37

modern

28:37

world

28:37

of

28:37

basketball,

28:37

journalism,

28:37

where

28:37

people

28:37

are

28:37

carrying

28:37

water

28:37

for

28:37

a

28:37

lot

28:37

of

28:37

different

28:37

people

28:37

at

28:37

all

28:50

times. And it's like, oh, seven, eight teams interested in Ben Simmons is like, Hey, are they?

28:54

Or are they just like, you know, sending us text saying what's going on with Ben, but not actually interested.

29:00

Let me give you the best example. Like, oh, the Sixers are interested in, I mean, the Celtics are interested in Ben Simmons.

29:08

Okay. Well, yeah, they might be interested in if they could trade, you know, Peyton, Pritchard and whomever, but they're not interested in them if you want Jaylen brown.

29:19

It's Marcus smart and Robert Williams and Peyton Pritchard and her pick there, they were a hundred percent.

29:24

Right, right. So that's, that's the fine line between all of this.

29:28

What's interested. Who's interested for real.

29:31

And you know, I know like for instance, Darrell, Morgan loves Jaylen brown.

29:34

I just know that from, you know, conversations from years gone by or whatever, but there's the Celtics aren't there yet.

29:41

I don't know if they'll ever get there. I mean, you know, I don't know if you watched the game last night, they, that was jam Brown's first game back.

29:46

They look, if they move the ball like that, everything would be great.

29:49

If you, if you move the ball and defend like that, let Tate him have his 40 or whatever the heck it was.

29:54

I don't even remember. That's fine.

29:56

But you know, the problem with them is consistency.

29:58

But if I'm Brad Stevens, I'm not giving up on Jaylen brown and Jason Tatum yet.

30:02

I'm just not. So I'm Not

30:03

training next summer unless yeah.

30:06

That's Never happening for me.

30:07

So our team is interested like, you know, the Kings, are they interested?

30:11

Of course they're interested. You can have probably anybody you want, you know, you could probably have deer and Fox at this point, but he'll Oh

30:19

my God, that team, that team said, I think they've set the record for players only meetings in the first two months of the season.

30:26

So if you're Darryl, at what point you say, all right, I'm not going to get Jaylen brown as an example.

30:33

So maybe, maybe I would take, you know, Darren Fox and buddy hill.

30:38

Maybe that works for me. I don't, I don't, I don't know.

30:40

I would rather keep band and hope it works out.

30:43

I Well, he will, he will.

30:45

He's not, he's never going to panic.

30:48

He'll sit and sit and sit because the team has structured right now has other issues anyway, you know, and beads already missed 11 of games.

30:56

He's got this rib soreness. So it's not, not a big deal.

30:59

Everything's a big deal. When you're the centerpiece of the team and you get injured, I'm sorry.

31:03

It is a big deal. I

31:05

think the trade that makes the most sense that has made the most sense for awhile would be Ben Simmons for Brandon Ingram.

31:12

I like that shade for each side. And I think it allows, it allows new Orleans to reset, to throw away this season, basically get Ben reacclimated, try to figure out if they can get zine in shape and then ultimately come out of that with two real assets, potentially.

31:28

I like Ben Simmons more than Brandon Ingram person.

31:30

I'm not a huge group. I mean, I just, you know how I feel about Ben Simmons, the player.

31:34

I understand what he's done.

31:38

I mean, if I told you in the summer, Hey bill, by the time we get to Christmas, neither Ben Simmons or Kyrie Irving will have played a game.

31:50

I mean, and the John Wall would have played. I don't know how many games John Wall played 20 or something.

31:55

I dunno. It's just the weirdest thing.

31:58

It's just so weird that these two players have not played one single game.

32:02

I, it astonishes me and it gives you an idea.

32:05

I think at how rich this league has become how wealthy it's become, how you can take that kind of asset and just eat it because you're looking at the long haul and you don't have to worry about cause your team's worth billions.

32:18

Your players are worth hundreds of millions.

32:20

And it's just, I just think it's amazing.

32:23

I think there's more to it than that. And it goes back to what we're talking about, where you have this reservoir reservoir of, of just evidence, the longer we have the MBA.

32:35

Right? And what are, what are one of the things we know about traits you want to be the team that's getting the three pieces for the one really good person.

32:43

That's right. Everyone's terrified to make the Charles Barkley for Jeff Horn is sick.

32:49

What was that? Andrew, Andrew Lang and whatever with Tim, Tim Perry.

32:55

I think that was it. Oh geez.

32:57

Nobody wants to make that trade anymore.

32:59

So it's like, I'm sure teams are calling I'm sure Dallas is calling the nets and I'm sure they're like, Hey, what about Porzingis and Jalen Brunson?

33:07

And the nets are just like, no, we're not, we're not going to do that.

33:10

We would rather have the app. I think teams realize like there's 55 guys total that make a difference.

33:18

And after that there's is there a difference between like Danny green and you know, whoever like no.

33:26

Interesting. So who, who would you like of the, of the Pacers roster?

33:30

Who would you think would give Philly some hope, some help.

33:34

I mean, so bonus you're right. That's a redundant skill.

33:36

So that doesn't work Turner to some degree is a redundant skill, right?

33:41

Give or take. I don't like the two of them together.

33:44

I've never liked the two-toned together. I personally absolutely loves the bonus and the bonus too.

33:50

If there was a bonus Jaylen brown conversation, I wouldn't go running into my bedroom, locking the door.

33:56

I think Indiana would have to give up more.

33:58

And by the way, I don't want to, I don't want to Jade, Jaylin, I want to keep Jaylyn and Tatum.

34:03

But if the bonus was really on the table, I just think he's an untapped resource.

34:08

I don't like the cut last year.

34:10

That last year, that coaching situation was an all time debacle.

34:14

They've never been able to figure out this twin towers thing with them.

34:17

And I think if you put him on a team that really used all the skills he has, cause I think he's, he's a good passer.

34:22

He's just really smart, highest, very good player.

34:25

He's great at exploited mismatches. I just want to see him on a good team at some point in my life.

34:30

So if you're the south X and you can figure out how to get some bonus while keeping the Jays, I would go all in on that.

34:36

If there's any way to do that, I would do it Well.

34:39

I mean, Carlisle is a defensive minded coach.

34:42

They want to do what they're calling a medium rebuild.

34:45

I don't know to see what Marcus smart.

34:48

I think Marcus has more value than he does to the people that have to watch them every day.

34:52

Like I went to the Cooper game last week and it was the full Marcus experience.

34:57

Right? When he turned it on defensively, he ate up Reggie Jackson for like a quarter.

35:01

On the other hand, he did 11 things.

35:03

I disagreed with offensively and the team kind of ebbs and flows.

35:07

He's got a weird energy. I don't, it's like he wants to be the leader, but he's not quite good enough.

35:12

And I don't, I didn't really feel like the, the other guys, at least I, it was so important to go see them in person.

35:18

I don't think they dislike each other or anything, but the vibe is definitely weird and Doka stands there.

35:24

Mid-court and he's kind of, I don't know that the intensity on him is weird.

35:31

Well, he he's got deaf, right?

35:34

Like everyone's watching. Yeah. Well, like it's almost like watching, so I'm just gonna like he's in class and the teacher might tell me to sit up straight or I don't know him at all.

35:42

He's very guarded. You know, I'm not around the team every day anymore, obviously, but I've been around people who have, and he's in, he's, he's hard to penetrate for people around that team.

35:53

And you know, I don't think that's true with the players.

35:57

I think he's good with the players, but everybody's surrounding them.

36:00

It's, it's, it's been difficult to penetrate him.

36:03

And you know, I think Brad in a lot of ways was similar, but just a little more affable and a little more, you know, smiling as he tells you nothing kind of thing, you know, I think there's so I think Brad likes that.

36:16

I don't think Brad likes, you know, Danny, I saw Danny, by the way at Kevin McHale was inducted into the new England museum sports hall of fame.

36:24

And Danny was there and I have never seen him happier, more relaxed.

36:28

He, he is just like for re living in Utah, just having himself a time, you know, and just the stress gone from his face.

36:36

And yet think about Danny and his personality and his imprint on that franchise.

36:40

He took all the heat for his team.

36:43

A lot of the times, if there was some kind of controversy or something simmering, he would say something I almost think purposely.

36:49

So the tension would go to him and go away from the players.

36:53

That's a famous Geno Auriemma trick.

36:55

Actually, I used to do that when their teams were ranked number one and there was some kind of controversy, he would say something really volatile.

37:01

So they'd all look at him and start looking away from the, you know, the young players that he was trying to protect.

37:06

So I asked, I think the league is just really talented right now, because even if you look at the standings, the Clippers are 16 and 12, which is the ninth best record in the league.

37:17

And the Knicks are 12 and 15, which is the 10th worst record in the week.

37:22

So you have 12 teams between 16 and 12 and 12 and 15, the middle class.

37:29

And everybody has at least one guy who you'd really want.

37:32

And everybody's got some young guys that you might be interested in.

37:35

And then even when you go to like the Houston OKC, Orlando, Detroit, like those, those aren't like shit teams like we used to have in the past, like even I watched, I watched them play out the nets the other day and they needed like every bit at the ranch, 51, you know, I like paid grant, just got hurt, but you know, they're not, they're not like a complete shit show.

37:57

And that's the worst team in the league.

37:59

See, I think grant might be available though bill because his contract.

38:03

So he's, he's someone that I think he can get moved on the case.

38:06

I know he's out now, but he's someone that I think you could very well see, get moved.

38:10

I want to talk about the calves, but let's take a break.

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40:04

All right. So the Cleveland Cavaliers are 17 and 12th.

40:09

The seventh best team in the league right now is Memphis at 1711.

40:12

The calves are 17 and 12. Sean Grandy tweeted this last night.

40:15

And I thought he was kidding that they would be our four seeds with home field advantage home court advantage in round one, if the season ended.

40:25

That's great. I liked that believable.

40:28

Memphis got lucky with the Miranda thing.

40:32

Cleveland honestly got lucky with the mobile thing that he dropped.

40:35

The three that was absurd, but you want some good isn't he?

40:38

Oh my God, you watch them. And you think like Garland, they struck oil with, and I don't know whether Philly could have had Garland and love and a pick for Simmons during the summer or not.

40:49

I've never been able to confirm that. Yes or no, but that's a tough beat for Philly.

40:53

If that, if that trade was on the table, but Cleveland has, they have the heart of the 2011, Minnesota Timberwolves, Rubio, and Kevin Love who I thought really had good chemistry together.

41:05

What, 10 years ago.

41:07

But love now has come off the bench.

41:09

As you know, this kind of the high end of this would be the bill Walton 86 Celtics example.

41:16

But obviously he's not that, but they have this guy that can come off the bench.

41:20

Who's been a first team, all NBA or a second team, all NBA, you know, who knows what he's doing?

41:26

Yeah. The game last night, you makes you kind of re jogged your memory.

41:29

I think it's been an interesting metamorphis with love because he's had these incidents that were close To

41:35

insubordination Importation,

41:38

really? And I think he's been dealing with a lot.

41:40

I think it's hard to be the last guy standing there, but they're very smart in the way they've handled him.

41:44

I think he's playing about 20 minutes a game. I looked it up this morning, he's shooting almost 41% for the three point line.

41:50

So that's what you bring them off to do.

41:52

You know, our bench helps them. They bring him in radio and it's like, they actually extend leads.

41:57

Yeah. Rubio has been pretty. I mean, he's cooled off some. He was, he was shooting over 40% for the three point line.

42:02

He is no longer he's cooled off, you know, he's cold off considerably.

42:05

But that team mobily that I don't know, two weeks ago or a week and a half ago, I don't know the block on Lillard.

42:11

Did you see it? We got it. It was awesome. Load was going basically going up and I'm like, oh my God, he's got a blocked shot.

42:16

It was pretty cool. He kind of reminds me, people keep saying Chris Bosch, man, I think he's got to let it go.

42:22

A lot of Kevin Garnett and him, I really do.

42:24

That was the guy I've, I've said the whole time, like less maniacal Kevin Garnett.

42:31

Right? I mean, but it's just such a good defensive player.

42:34

So few rookies come in as a, as it does a good defensive player, a lot of them try to be, and they filed too much and they overplay and you know, they, they try to block every shot.

42:44

So then everybody just up fakes you and you end up on the bench for five files.

42:47

Like that's not him. He's, he's really, he's got great timing and he's man.

42:51

I, I really like him. And, and you know, I

42:54

would say he's an elite defensive player already.

42:57

I really do. I think he's one of the best people at that Small

43:00

sample size, but yeah. I mean, defensively they're there, they're in the top three in the league defensively in defensive rating and, and, and scoring defense.

43:09

I mean, they're alert yet.

43:11

And do you remember when we were sort of poking fun at them?

43:13

Cause they were signing all these, they were, they were gathering all these centers when they had Jared Allen and Andre Drummond.

43:19

Well, I mean the laughs on us, Jared Allen, we knew when they got and we're like, well, yeah, he's a really good player, but you don't really need him.

43:26

Well, yeah, they do. Yeah, they do.

43:29

And they just got rid of the other guys.

43:31

So that was, that was a really good score for them.

43:33

I mean, it's fun to watch. I

43:34

liked when they got them, because I just thought he was this cheap asset.

43:39

They knew he needed to be thrown in the deal because they didn't want to give up the Andrew Jordan and calves were like, okay, sure.

43:43

We'll take them. And I think there's a bunch of fans of teams, including me that were like, why couldn't we grab Jared Allen?

43:49

Where were we on that? Where we throw in the non lottery pick for him.

43:54

But can we go back a minute to why Jared Allen had to go?

43:57

Let's just go back to that for a minute Because

44:00

it goes back to that crazy Duran Kyrie thing with Deandre.

44:04

It's a disaster. Okay. Think about that for a minute.

44:07

Just think about that for a minute. You, cause they knew Jared Allen was good.

44:11

Joe Marks is a smart guy. He knew how good he was, but to appease Kyrie Irving, who is not playing for you right now and has not played a game for you all year.

44:21

Cause he, you promised we'd get the Andre joined too.

44:23

By the way, he since has been traded.

44:26

You let Jared Allen go. Think about that.

44:29

Claire empowerment.

44:31

Wow. He's been unplayable for three years.

44:34

And like when the Lakers signed Jordan, who's a nice guy, bow accounts, but he's, he's washed up.

44:40

He's been washed up for years and they kept him because you know, whether Duran Kyrie told them to keep them or whether they were just trying to appease their guys or whatever, but he absolutely should have been thrown that trade.

44:52

There's no question. So unbelievable.

44:54

And the weirdest thing is that Houston didn't want him either.

44:58

It didn't have to be a three team trade. Houston could have just been like, cool, we'll take them.

45:01

So you have this Cavs situation where you know the best teams in the east, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Chicago, although the COVID stuff with them.

45:12

But I, I think that's the top three right now.

45:14

And then you have well, But

45:17

that's just cause BAMS hurt though. I mean, if bam, bam is healthy with the heat, I think they're Yeah,

45:22

I'm just saying right now, I think healthy Miami would be our four spot and Cleveland I think is in the running.

45:29

I think I liked their roster and their team better than everyone else.

45:34

Yeah. Playing hard. They're young. They play together.

45:36

Get Garland is a star.

45:37

Mobley might be a superstar of Coro.

45:40

You know, I liked that pick for them, but they were just, you know, it's been hard to judge them at all up until this season because they were just bad all the time.

45:47

So it's hard to say. And then your boy mark, and he's helped them.

45:51

He's helped them. Your guy.

45:53

Yeah. I've watched a lot of the calves to share and I might've even wagered on them a few times.

45:57

They're always, they're always in games.

46:00

Like I thought the most interesting one I watched, it was like the seventh, I'm looking it up 7 30, 8 game of the season.

46:06

It gets the Lakers. And LeBron was really trying because it's Cleveland, right.

46:10

He's not giving them an easy game.

46:12

And they kind of went toe to toe with them. And then in the end, LeBron and Davis bully, bald Cleveland and they, and they ended up winning in the last five minutes.

46:19

But it was like a weirdly impressive loss.

46:22

Cause I didn't even think they played that well, but they hung around.

46:25

They hung around and right after that they lost the Phoenix.

46:28

They won four straight, barely lose to Washington.

46:31

Then they had their little bump.

46:33

When I think Bowlby was her and the team immediately tanked, Moby comes back, the teams immediately.

46:38

Good. Again, It's all there.

46:40

They're their identity is defense.

46:42

It's just too bad about Sexton because you know what a hell it would have been nice to see him with them, you know, through the course.

46:48

And I, I mean, I don't, I think he's out, isn't he out for the year.

46:52

Yeah. But it's tough because I think he was a trade asset for them.

46:58

He did, but I think basketball wise, it was, and I hate saying this about injuries, but basketball as I think it was good for Garland, it kind of just made him the car keys, you know, it's like, all right.

47:09

See, I think that was going to happen anyway. And I just think whenever you have depths guys, young guys that are playing hard and you create competition within your roster.

47:17

I always think of that's good.

47:19

But maybe in this day and age, it isn't, I don't know For

47:21

the people listening who are not focused on the calves, just a couple, couple of pedestrian stats for you.

47:28

Garlin is 19 a game, seven assists a game he's taken seven threes, a game and he's shooting almost 39%.

47:37

And the eye test backs it up because one of the reasons I like them, I like the shots they get at the end of the game.

47:42

Same, same thing for Chicago. I think they get good shots and they can also get stops on the other end, which is why I think they have to be taken seriously.

47:50

Jared Allen is basically 17 and 11 this year.

47:55

And they gave him that contract. I didn't like it.

47:57

They gave him a hundred million for five years and it was like that's way higher than what the center market is, but it turned out to be good And

48:05

build that's what you have to do. If you're Cleveland, see all those mid, mid market teams, whenever you talk to the owners or the GM's, they tell you the same thing we have to overpay or they don't stay.

48:16

And Jared Ellen was young enough that you didn't.

48:18

I liked that signing. Well, easy for me to say now, but I did like Tim, I liked him, period.

48:23

I just thought young energetic seems like a really good team guy.

48:28

All the nets players are really sad that he left because you know, he was just starting something and it's interesting.

48:33

They felt the same way about Charisse Lavera but it's so hard to, you know, he's had so many bizarre things happen to him.

48:38

It's kind of hard to say now.

48:40

I don't think it'd be fun to play with either. It's funny.

48:42

I talked before the season, Zach and I were on the phone.

48:46

We're trying to plan like what we're going to do for whatever and just catching up because he had just gotten back from his vacation and we're kind of talking about a couple of teams that we may or may not like.

48:55

And I was like, I really liked this Cavs team.

48:59

I don't, I don't know what it is. I just, I like the players.

49:02

I don't know if it'll make sense, but they have like eight guys that really like, and he, and Zach said the same thing.

49:06

He's like, oh my God, I feel the same way.

49:09

And I was looking at their over-under. It was like 27 for, oh yeah.

49:15

When we did the over unders Cleveland was one of the ones we're still in house.

49:19

And I, we were all kind of like, yeah, there's this seems like they have more talent than a 31 team was not expecting them to be fighting for the four seat.

49:28

I gotta say, I'm not shocked that Miami has had some injuries stuff already, because I think that was the concern, looking at the over-under for them, which I think was like 49, just Larry's old, you know that the Butler band, I don't know.

49:42

I just, I felt like they would just try to get their team ready for the playoffs, obviously that anticipating the bam injury.

49:49

But I think, I think out of that, those five, and then you have, whatever's going to happen with Philly.

49:57

If and bead stays healthy, they have to be in at least the top eight or nine.

50:01

I think Boston wound up being there.

50:03

But so what do, how do we make sense of Atlanta?

50:05

What's your take on the It's

50:07

D there they've just abandoned the defense.

50:09

It's such a shame. I was looking at the numbers.

50:11

They, you know, click Capella, who I thought was a great pickup for them and had a good year for them.

50:16

Last year, teams are shooting like over 70% at the rim when he's in the game, it makes no sense.

50:22

I mean, their interior defense is non-existent and I thought, you know, Nate McMillan got through to Trey a little bit last year on the way to this run to the Eastern conference finals.

50:30

That like, look, we know you make kids score.

50:32

You. We know all those things, but you have to defend.

50:35

If you don't just team can't go anywhere.

50:37

And if you defend everybody else will, because everyone's like, well, how come he doesn't have to defend?

50:41

You know? And so they've gotten away from it, Trey included and it's killing them.

50:45

It's killing them. It's too bad. And, and you know, you always wonder, and now I'm going to go in the way, way, way back machine.

50:52

But remember when the Hawks pushed the Celtics in that grade series of Dominique and Leora, and we're all like, oh, they're going to be great the next year.

51:00

They weren't because they're like, oh, we're hot shit.

51:04

Well, you know what not, unless you keep trying and play in the way you were playing last year when you took the Celtics to seven games.

51:10

So I wonder if that's the case a little bit with the Hawks.

51:14

I'm, I'm disappointed. They're disappointing to me.

51:17

You know, I love them. And I, you know, I think they probably gonna move one of those guys, like, I'm sure cam reddish.

51:23

I bet they'll move him. You know? But some of those other guys, you just, you want more, I mean, the Capella numbers are alarming And

51:29

it makes you wonder why, why Darrell was so excited to trade him two years ago, out of nowhere, right?

51:34

When he'd have a center. Yeah. You mentioned what, there's two theories with them that are usually bad things for NBA teams.

51:40

One, you just mentioned the hot shit theory.

51:42

We have this run, you go into the next day. He's like, oh, we're hot shit.

51:45

We're there. And I said, now you actually, this is a year after your thing.

51:48

You got to earn it. The other thing, they just have too many guys.

51:53

And I think sometimes this happens where, you know, you look at the minutes is like cam radish, it's playing 22 and a half minutes a game.

52:01

Is he happy? What are the people around him saying he wants to buy 35 right out of it, just playing 28 herders playing 27 and a half gallon is at 22.

52:12

Lou Williams is at 13.

52:14

All those guys probably feel like they should be out there in crunch time.

52:17

And I think, yeah, That's

52:20

interesting. I don't Know who they are. I don't know that their best five is.

52:22

And it's a team that seems like they're dying for two, for one or a three for one trade, which I'm sure they've figured tires and Jaylen brown constantly because he's from there.

52:31

That's not going to happen. That's Not happening, but could they, could that be a three for one team with somebody possibly.

52:38

Yeah. And remember they started slow last year too.

52:41

They came on at the end of the year. So maybe that happens again.

52:44

I don't know, but I just think it's just a little disappointing for me.

52:49

Cause I think they were ready to make the next step. They have a great core of young talent guys that are winners guys that really want to play that are there.

52:55

Aren't afraid to mix it up. And I know Trey isn't for everyone, but you know, he could be on my team any day.

53:01

He wants to be. When you look at the stats, the stats compared to the eye test, the stats actually seem okay if they're making almost 13 threes, a game, the 38% from three Trey is 27 and nine.

53:14

Every night, Collins is 17 and eight.

53:17

It's Right at the offense.

53:20

It's by defense, Right? When you watch them, it's a team that doesn't to be totally Happy,

53:25

transition defense, yuck, bad transition defense, you know, just, Nope.

53:31

So you're not buying the fat. You're not buying the foul row with tray.

53:34

That's one of them at all.

53:36

Say it again. The,

53:38

the changes to the foul rules.

53:41

People have blamed that for Tre.

53:44

No, because you know, although I will say harden, if you look at harden to, you know, he's kind of settled in back to being himself, but he, he's not having success going to the rim anymore.

53:55

Not the way he was. I don't Think he's settled back into being himself.

53:59

I think he's, he's Getting

54:01

there. It's getting there, but I don't Think

54:03

he did Well. No, let's what I just said.

54:05

You know, but I mean like in terms of step back threes, those are starting to be automatic again.

54:10

But going to the rim for him is not what it was before.

54:13

He's not neither. One of those guys are going to be shooting averaging, you know, 15 free throws a game.

54:18

That's just, they want that out of the game and they're going to succeed.

54:21

It's just like when they started with the hand checking rules, they didn't want centers dominating the pink.

54:25

They didn't want big men. They wanted to open the game up.

54:28

And the year after they did that, Allen Iverson at five foot 11 was the MVP of the league.

54:33

What the league wants, the league gets.

54:35

That's just the way it rules. You know, It's

54:38

a shame because I don't think Durant's ever been better.

54:42

I looked at the Yes, but he's great. He's it looks really good, but he's playing too many minutes.

54:47

Yikes, yikes, yikes. Too many minutes.

54:49

And I know he doesn't like that, but it's true.

54:51

His MVP season, his stats are pretty nuts and he was awesome that year.

54:55

And he was an MVP of a year that LeBron James was at the peak of his powers and it was not even an argument.

55:01

Katie was definitely the MVP that year, obviously 2017.

55:06

It's hard to imagine. It'd be better than that.

55:08

It's hard to imagine him being better than he was in the series.

55:11

But

55:11

when

55:11

you

55:11

watch

55:11

it

55:11

in

55:11

this

55:11

year,

55:11

especially

55:11

on

55:11

a,

55:11

like

55:11

a

55:11

pretty

55:11

mediocre

55:11

nets

55:11

team

55:11

with

55:11

no

55:11

Kyrie

55:11

and

55:11

with

55:11

heart

55:11

and

55:11

not

55:11

really

55:11

being

55:11

hard

55:11

in,

55:11

and

55:11

I

55:11

don't

55:11

know,

55:11

Patty

55:11

mills,

55:11

no,

55:11

Joe

55:11

Harris

55:11

all

55:11

year

55:24

And fed some entries.

55:25

Katie Just

55:27

how he gets his points night after night, who stops him?

55:31

Who's like the Katie, who's the Katy stopper.

55:33

Who's the guy like, oh man, they're playing this guy.

55:36

This guy usually has success against Katie.

55:38

That person doesn't exist. And it's never existed in the history of basketball.

55:42

There's no even like member bird in the late eighties where it was like when Rodman started to become Rodman and, and you're watching going, oh shit, this is kind of the guy you would create in the lab to beat bird.

55:53

But remember that the problem with those is like they say, oh, maybe Robert Reed is, you're like stop it.

55:58

You know, sometimes it's the worst thing on this word earth for someone to say, you're the Katy stopper because he'll destroy you.

56:03

That's what all the great players do.

56:06

There's never been one at any point ever.

56:08

I mean, Well, who was the best defender of Michael Jordan?

56:11

Who was the guy that defended Michael Jordan the best.

56:14

This is right in your wheelhouse.

56:17

I mean, it was probably the pistons collectively and their ability to throw, do Mars and Rodman on them of as a combo.

56:24

And then, and then just punish him any time he went into the basket, but he solved that eventually.

56:29

But how about a young Reggie Lewis? So blocked him three times in one game.

56:33

You're right. Reggie went the best of him at anybody.

56:37

That Was wheelhouse, man. I can't believe you didn't get that.

56:40

You're slipping. No, I was thinking about yeah.

56:42

Playoffs, but you're right. Reggie would go at him and he also would go at Reggie Miller too.

56:46

Cause I, yeah, I think he had like a little burn us out of both of those guys, but yeah, with the Duran thing, I guess the honest, technically it would be the guy, but he's torch.

56:56

He's torched a Buck's over and over again.

57:00

That's you can't ask you, can't ask Yonis to go out now to the three point line and that's just too much to ask.

57:05

Although the honest acquits himself pretty well in most situations, but it's, it's just so when he's healthy, when he's healthy, he's he's always been a unicorn.

57:14

We, we knew that and, and he's, you know, he's unselfish too, even though when he puts up big numbers, he wants to make the right basketball play.

57:21

That's always been true about him. I think.

57:24

Yeah. I agree. There's Tim and Carrie, Right?

57:26

Aren't they the two right now the front runners, their former teammates, Curry and Durant.

57:31

Who else? I think there's four guys who were just playing spaghetti has to be in there and yada Yada.

57:39

Yeah, you're right.

57:41

Yep. I actually think yo yo cage, if you actually look at his numbers and you watch that team and you see who is playing with, and he's just throwing up 27 13, so he's gotta be in that conversation.

57:52

I think you could make a case.

57:54

This will be the best first team, all NBA we've had in a while in terms of guys like really good historically great guys at the great powers where we have four guys and Lucas should have been the fifth, but decided to, you know, take a bog in this season, which we'll give to them that second, first state, that second guard spot on first team, all NBA is kind of wide open right now.

58:15

Cause Dame's kind of abdicated it hardens, abdicated it, Luke, I

58:20

don't count it. Don't cut Damon yet.

58:22

Don't count them out yet. We've got some time left.

58:25

It's not ready to do that Yet. What team is it going to be at?

58:28

I don't know. We'll see. I just think a tray can make all the difference or a trade that they make to have someone join him.

58:36

The problem they have is their, their most reasonable trade asset has a collapsed lung.

58:42

Right. CJ McCollum. So that's a problem.

58:45

What about Bradley Beal for your first email MBA?

58:49

Is he in that level? He's had kind of a crappy year.

58:51

He just set himself the other day.

58:53

Okay. I would not have him on that level and I don't, I don't think he's played that great really all season.

58:59

And now that the wizards team has kind of cratered Well,

59:03

they're regressing to their means.

59:06

Yeah. It's a 500 team. I'm trying to think who else?

59:09

I mean, Booker would have been there, but he got hurt too.

59:11

I thought Booker was probably the, And

59:13

he might still be bad. I mean, he's not going to, I don't know how much time he's going to miss or cause a good choice.

59:18

Cause that seems good.

59:19

Oh And the Rosens the other one. We should mention it.

59:22

Oh sure. But am I ready to put him first team?

59:25

All NBA It's wide open somebody somebody's going to sneak in there.

59:29

If Luca and harden and Dame are not are going, not going to keep that spot.

59:33

You can get a little creative too. If Tatum keeps going the way he's going, maybe he could have a run at one of the two teams.

59:38

I mean he's already at 26 a game.

59:41

And then Mitchell, I guess is the other one we should mention because Utah Donovan, How

59:45

do we forget him? Oh, we shouldn't have that Over.

59:47

See that's where the Utah And

59:53

you know what? We would deserve it on that case may a culpa to all the Utah jazz fans who, by the way, they're phenomenal too.

1:00:00

They look great. Go bears been unbelievable.

1:00:03

They're good. They're really good.

1:00:05

They have, I think the best, the second best point of French.

1:00:08

And now they're 19 and seven. I don't do something about them.

1:00:13

Still leaves me a little cold and I can't put my finger on it.

1:00:16

I just, I don't trust them. And maybe it was just cause I went through those corporate playoff games, but it's, it's almost like they have to prove it to me.

1:00:25

They're scoring aren't they way and above everybody's scoring.

1:00:29

I think weight like their offensive numbers are way like points.

1:00:33

I don't have it in front of me. Yeah. There are 115

1:00:36

plus a game. I mean that's a lot.

1:00:39

And then, And it gets somebody get so many threes, a game they're making 16.

1:00:45

That's a lot. That's crazy.

1:00:47

Well, maybe that's why you're worried though, because you got to do more than that and they can, I believe they can.

1:00:52

This might be their year. This might be their year.

1:00:55

Well, it would have to be the Mitchell becoming a real top seven top.

1:01:01

He's close. I think he's really close. And he's got the right mindset for it.

1:01:04

And the great work ethic. I dunno, he's got a good personality for it.

1:01:08

I think he's got all the tools. We'll see if he gets there.

1:01:11

One more break. And then I want to talk about Anthony Davis.

1:01:17

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1:03:00

All right. So Anthony Davis, we talked about Luca disappointing.

1:03:05

He's not a hundred percent in shape.

1:03:07

We talked about Zion disappointing. It seems like injuries and some off the court stuff might derail a potentially great career.

1:03:14

What do we make a Davis at this point? Like Barclay went at him really hard last week.

1:03:18

And you know, by, by the old guys on the TV show, going after the new guys that get it like, and they've been tough at times, but I also feel like there, I thought he hit on some genuine stuff there.

1:03:30

It's like, why this guy's supposed to be one of the seven best guys in the league.

1:03:34

This guy, they gave up all these draft picks for why isn't he carrying them?

1:03:37

Why does he have to have like the perfect supporting cast?

1:03:40

Why isn't LeBron and Davis enough?

1:03:42

And it's a pretty good question. I haven't loved what I've seen from Davis this year.

1:03:45

And people are going to point to the stats, but stats are kind of right.

1:03:49

But I don't like the 18 footers.

1:03:52

I don't think he's moving as well as he used to.

1:03:54

And I liked when he looked more like, you know, young Garnette, young, young, young cagey, when he was just, you know, he's skinnier is moving around now.

1:04:03

He looks like a Senator to me. And I don't feel like he's a special to watch.

1:04:06

What do you think?

1:04:08

Well, I just always have thought the same thing about Anthony Davis.

1:04:11

It's you can't expect everybody to be a one.

1:04:14

He's not a one. He'll never be a one in my mind because you know why there's only a handful of A1C.

1:04:20

I mean, LeBron's a one, I don't care how old he is.

1:04:23

I don't care if Anthony Davis is better than him.

1:04:25

LeBron's a one, that's just how it works.

1:04:27

And Anthony Davis, his motor to me has always been just no.

1:04:33

Okay. But very skilled player who, by the way, the Lakers it's been proven again and again are better off when he is playing center.

1:04:40

That's just the truth of it.

1:04:42

And, but your, your, your point on the 18 footers is the one I would harp on.

1:04:46

Like that kid can dominate, but it's almost like it doesn't occur to him or something.

1:04:52

And does that make him a bad guy?

1:04:54

It does not. But again, I'll repeat it.

1:04:56

Doesn't make him a Kevin Durant or a Yonis.

1:04:59

It's just, it's not in his makeup.

1:05:01

You can't teach that you can't teach that killer instinct.

1:05:05

It's it's only the very, very few habits, only a handful of players in each generation habit.

1:05:12

It's a gift and it's just, he doesn't have it.

1:05:15

And that doesn't mean he's not a good player or there's not a hall of Famer.

1:05:18

He's already won a championship. It just means that your expectations, I think, have to be tempered based on that knowledge.

1:05:24

That's how I feel about it.

1:05:27

This is going to be a weird tangent for him.

1:05:29

But game three of the finals in 2020, the bubble.

1:05:35

So first two games, he puts up 34, 9 30, 2 and 14.

1:05:41

He's 26 for 41 in this series through two games and everybody is doing the, oh my God, here it is.

1:05:48

It's happening. This is Shaq in 2000.

1:05:51

This is Dunkin in 2003. This is, he is becoming an all time guy.

1:05:57

And then they're at the next day game three, they lose to Miami by 11, 15 points, five rebounds.

1:06:04

And then he was okay, the rest of the series, but it felt like there was this one moment.

1:06:10

And then it kind of went away and we've never gotten back.

1:06:13

But there was this one moment between two and three where it was like, this, this is happening.

1:06:17

This is happening Karim. This is shack.

1:06:19

This is will. This is the next guy.

1:06:22

And I don't get it. The next guy vibes from him anymore.

1:06:25

And I don't know whether, I don't know. I don't know what's going on, but it doesn't seem like he's getting better.

1:06:29

It's weird. He's he looks like he's 32, 33 years old.

1:06:32

He's 28.

1:06:35

Okay. Wow. I would've guessed. He was older.

1:06:39

Yeah. 32, right? Like 32 30 threes.

1:06:41

That is 28. Well, big guys, always age.

1:06:44

Even when they don't age, they always look older.

1:06:46

That's always been my theory, but I, I just think that he, I think he's got, I think he has a times where he can get himself lathered up, but I don't think it comes naturally to him.

1:06:55

And you know, you've played sports and all of us have like, you know, which people, we, you know, who they are.

1:07:01

You can identify them within five seconds in a gym, you know, magic Johnson loses a pickup game and it makes them play again.

1:07:08

Cause he said, you, you follow me on that last basket that you hit the game and everyone's like, no one touched, you know, we're playing it over.

1:07:15

Like, it's just, they can't stand to lose that slip, Ron.

1:07:19

You know that? I think that, I don't know if that's Yonis.

1:07:22

It feels like it is. I just don't think that's Anthony Davis.

1:07:25

And I, I mean, does that make him a bad player?

1:07:27

It doesn't. It just doesn't make them an all time.

1:07:31

Great. I Regret putting them in the top 75.

1:07:36

I think I Didn't recency bias, recency bias with him and projection.

1:07:41

And you realize some of these guys, you never know.

1:07:43

Yeah. You didn't put them in. I don't think Bob Brian had him either.

1:07:47

Yeah. But at the expense of some of the people I left off like assault who see, I had Casal because was a slow burn, right.

1:07:53

Where it's like, by the end of the Memphis run, you're thinking, oh, this is what a disappointing career.

1:07:58

This has a chance to just be kind of a bummer that it didn't work out better.

1:08:03

Then he goes to Lakers, reinvents himself, meets Coby at the right time.

1:08:07

But I think the seemed like the plan was always, LeBron passes the torch to Davis and then Davis keeps carrying the Lakers.

1:08:14

I don't think can carry the Lakers without LeBron.

1:08:16

Do you?

1:08:18

No, I do not. I do not.

1:08:21

So Know. There's no way they would trade him right now.

1:08:26

Okay. So what do you do for them? Because you're only trade pieces Westbrook, because you backed yourself into a trade asset corner where now they're trying to float up a lot of teams interested in tailored Hort and Tucker.

1:08:36

It's like really? Are they?

1:08:38

Yeah. Well, I mean, again, they might be interested in them, but they're not interested in for the stuff that's going to make you a champion overnight.

1:08:44

You know, he's one of your younger guys, you should be trying to move one to the older guys.

1:08:48

You know, Westbrook, you know, I read, I read somewhere that, oh, the Lakers in the Sixers, I'm like, there is no way Daryl Morey has taking on Russell Westbrook.

1:08:59

He's already seen that movie, Houston.

1:09:02

They happen in people that is not happening.

1:09:06

I don't, I don't know what the suitor is for him, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't exist John

1:09:12

Wall. And like, we're not going to do that again.

1:09:14

You know, there's two guys.

1:09:17

There's a, I, I'm not pleased aggregators don't get carried with this.

1:09:21

But the only team that kind of makes sense is the Clippers, it where they could, they have the salaries to throw together.

1:09:31

And

1:09:31

I

1:09:31

don't

1:09:31

even

1:09:31

think

1:09:31

it

1:09:31

makes

1:09:31

sense,

1:09:31

but

1:09:31

I

1:09:31

went

1:09:36

There last night. It's it's a team that has without Paul, George.

1:09:40

You're just, I went last night to watch him play the suns.

1:09:42

And it's like, oh cool. It's Reggie Jackson and Terrence man, Marcus Morris, all these guys.

1:09:48

And it's like, it's barely a barely Jackson's

1:09:53

struggling. He's he's not, you know, he hasn't followed up, which is too bad.

1:09:55

I mean, it's against early. I mean, it's only December, but they they're there.

1:10:00

Even when Kauai comes back, I just think their roster is a bit problematic.

1:10:04

When do you think Hawaii comes back?

1:10:06

Do you think we see him this year?

1:10:10

I do. I do it. I don't.

1:10:14

I would bet. Now if FanDuel had the odds and it was like, no minus went there.

1:10:18

I bet. I bet the no, no.

1:10:20

I think he's too careful about his body. I don't see him push him back by the way.

1:10:25

They're going to be like a nine seed 10 seed.

1:10:28

Yeah. But I think because he's so careful with his body, he probably progressed is at a better rate than the average player recovering from injury because he knows this body so well, because he's tuned into his body because he has no problem using his own people.

1:10:41

If that's what's required to get him to where he wants to be.

1:10:45

So yeah, I might be wrong.

1:10:48

I just, my gut was that he'll be that we'll see him.

1:10:52

What's nuts about the west is you have the Clippers who had no quail year and they've lost Paul Georgetown for a couple of games.

1:10:59

They're still 16 and 12. They're still a five seat.

1:11:02

If the Lakers who have had the most disappointing year of probably anyone in the league, there are six seed.

1:11:09

How about the nuggets? Where are They?

1:11:11

You Dallas and Denver who I would say, wow, could that year have gone worse for either team?

1:11:16

No, right there. The seven and eight seats.

1:11:19

Yeah. I mean the nuggets, the way they're treading water is unbelievable to me with everything that's gone on with them.

1:11:24

And then you have Portland who said the year from hell 10 seed.

1:11:29

They're in the playing game right now that team sucks.

1:11:33

So then he got troubles. They had to do something.

1:11:36

I think they have to do something. I don't know what they do, but they got to do Let's

1:11:40

do, are they got to do something power rankings right now?

1:11:43

So I would have Portland one. I think I Indiana's is too.

1:11:47

So yeah, I would have Indiana one because, well, because you don't, you don't forecast almost every good player on your roster.

1:11:56

I mean, Lavera, you've heard Lavera Turner.

1:11:59

So bonus and TJ Warren have all been, it's been forecasted that they're all available.

1:12:05

Brogden. The only reason Brogden isn't available is because he technically can't be because he signed his extension.

1:12:10

So he's not eligible. Otherwise he'd be available to like, they're clearly hitting the reset button at what level we can discuss.

1:12:17

So to me, they've they have to do something.

1:12:20

They will do something I know for, I don't know if Portland can do it.

1:12:25

Like the patients have enough interesting pieces that something can happen.

1:12:30

Like I think for the right team, TJ, Warren could be a very nice pick.

1:12:34

And of course he's been injured too. He's had some health issues, but I, you know, I think It

1:12:40

was feed scare me that TJ warrants had multiple feed things.

1:12:44

Who would you have it in the third pick Philly's off the table.

1:12:47

Cause we know they have trade Simmons, but all right, so you have Indiana one.

1:12:50

I have, I have Portland one Portland two.

1:12:53

I have Indiana two. So who's three.

1:12:54

Is it Atlanta? Are they at the, they have to do something stage.

1:12:59

I, I don't think that they're there at the, have to do something stage.

1:13:02

I think they're at the, we want to do something stage and again, I think they have enough pieces that will interest other teams.

1:13:09

They have assets that people would be interested in that are worth more to other teams than perhaps they are to their own team.

1:13:16

We have our number three, then it's Sacramento.

1:13:19

They have to do something. What did he do with that?

1:13:21

No, come on. We've been saying that for how long?

1:13:24

I feel like we've been saying that for five years, they have to do something.

1:13:27

They never do.

1:13:29

It's gotta be, I can't Go

1:13:31

with Atlanta. I'm go with Atlanta.

1:13:35

I came up with an idea for every Jackie appearance.

1:13:38

Oh, okay.

1:13:40

Storytime with Jackie. You have to tell some story about when you're recovering.

1:13:44

So I'm just gonna throw, I'm gonna throw.

1:13:48

No, no. It's, it's going to be even more confusing for you because You're

1:13:51

gonna make me oh, okay.

1:13:54

I'm just going to trigger you. Like you're a karaoke machine with some sort of event from the past and you have to tell your best story about that event player or whatever.

1:14:06

Okay. Here's what we have for, for this podcast.

1:14:09

1992

1:14:09

dream

1:14:12

team. Your best story.

1:14:15

Okay. Well you're this is, you're not going to love this because in 1992, I was the mother of a newborn child.

1:14:22

I did not go to Barcelona. Oh my no, no, no.

1:14:25

It's a story. I got the one you want baby.

1:14:28

So Dave Gavitt was in charge of the DRI team, right?

1:14:32

So Dave Gavitt God rest his soul who I loved, but had to write a very difficult column about when I was at the globe, which fractured our relationship for many years, he knew I really wanted to go, but couldn't go.

1:14:43

I was on maternity leave. I had this baby.

1:14:45

So he got this dream team book and he had everybody on the dream team.

1:14:50

Sign it to my daughter.

1:14:54

Okay. Now Larry spelled my daughter's name wrong Alison, but that's okay.

1:14:57

So every player except for one signed it and it was Scottie Pippin and it wasn't that he said, no, I refuse to sign it.

1:15:04

Dave just never caught up to him.

1:15:06

So I've been carrying around this book for the last, my daughter's almost 30, 30 years trying to be an emo.

1:15:13

I've seen Scottie a hundred times, but I'd never had the book with me.

1:15:16

So Scotty Pippin is the only one. I didn't have sign it.

1:15:18

So I watched the dream team.

1:15:20

I didn't go to Barcelona. I feel like I know every story cause I've written about it 8,000 times, but I wasn't there for any of it.

1:15:28

How about that?

1:15:30

Wow. And you know, you probably would've gotten more stuff out about dream team experience than any other reporter.

1:15:38

I think other than maybe McCallum, it would have been, you guys would have been in the finals.

1:15:41

I grabbed stuff. Yeah. Macallan was grand, you know?

1:15:44

Cause I loved you. And I knew all those guys really well Malone Jordan, all those guys.

1:15:49

And it was, you know, people like you didn't cover the tree to I'm like, Hey, I had a child.

1:15:54

Let's put world in perspective please.

1:15:57

Okay. I had my daughter, she, she was worth it.

1:16:00

So the big winner other than your daughter was McCallum.

1:16:04

Great. But that book was great.

1:16:08

Oh Jackie, I'm so sorry. You can't cope.

1:16:12

I don't think he was even aware of me at that time.

1:16:14

In my life Bob Ryan went, so he got to go, you know?

1:16:18

Cause I was covering the NBA then, but so he went, he went, nah, I wouldn't say my place.

1:16:22

They probably would've sent both of us, but he had a blast.

1:16:25

You know, You

1:16:27

had Barkley and Ewing like that. Those were like real relationships.

1:16:30

You could have gotten some good dirt from those guys Just

1:16:33

got out after they came home. That's all.

1:16:36

All right, I'll play one more.

1:16:38

Okay. French lick Indiana. Your best story.

1:16:43

Oh wow. I'll have to think about that.

1:16:46

Okay. This is a pretty good story. So I went out to do a book with Larry.

1:16:51

I forget which one.

1:16:52

And we were at French lake.

1:16:54

Cause I'd never been there or I've been there once before, but not with him.

1:16:57

And he was there.

1:16:58

And so we're going through all the places Jubal spar and all the, you know, hotspots or whatever.

1:17:05

And at some point I said something about it.

1:17:07

Must've been the second book. Cause I said about that movie with Dustin Hoffman about the president.

1:17:16

And they were saying that the going to the moon was fake.

1:17:19

It didn't really happen. Do you know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the name of that.

1:17:23

No, no, no, no. Ah, shoot. All

1:17:25

the president's men. No, no, no.

1:17:27

It'll come to me anyway, whatever this movie was, I happened to say, yeah, it was, I'm going to see that movie at some point later that night I stay.

1:17:34

So it's a great day. Malaria is whenever I worked with him, he'd have me stay at his house.

1:17:39

So he comes out with this thing from behind the back and he had the move.

1:17:42

We had the movie on like the DVD, but it was only in theaters.

1:17:45

What was the name of the movie? I'm ruining the whole story.

1:17:48

Someone helped me out. Kyle. It was Dustin Hoffman.

1:17:52

A walk wag, the dog wag The

1:17:55

dog. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. That was it.

1:17:57

And he pulled it out. He had it. So we watched wag the dog.

1:18:00

That was my second.

1:18:02

He just was able to get a DVD of the movie.

1:18:04

Cause Well, I think he probably know he probably already had it cause like Larry Bird couldn't go to the movie theater because everyone would like cost costume.

1:18:13

So he probably had some agreement where he got all the first run movies, like at his home ahead of time.

1:18:18

Wag, wag the dog. It's my favorite story.

1:18:21

The legend.

1:18:23

Unbelievable. Alright Jackie. Great to see you as always happy holidays.

1:18:28

I hope this turn it around. I hope we get some trades and next time I've

1:18:33

got some, there'll be trades. There'll be MBA trades.

1:18:35

I mean, I think as of tomorrow, 86% of the league is available via trade Malcolm Brogdon tomorrow is the exception, not the rule.

1:18:44

So somebody's going to get traded. All right.

1:18:46

I just don't think it's going to be a Russell Westbrook bill.

1:18:49

I don't think so either. Sorry like her fence. All right, Jackie.

1:18:52

Good to see you.

1:18:54

All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jackie.

1:18:57

Thanks to producer Kyle Creighton.

1:18:59

We'll be back on Thursday on this feed with one more pot million-dollar picks and a lot more.

1:19:07

Don't forget about juice world into the abyss 8:00 PM HBO Thursday night.

1:19:12

And you can get in on HBO max as well. Putting your calendar down.

1:19:15

See on Thursday, Hey, we put up a new rewatch bubbles on Monday night, the last boy Scouts, 30 years later, one of the bat shit, crazy action movies that's ever put up a new rewatchables on Monday night, the last boy scout. Thirty years later, one of the bad shit crazy action movies that's ever happened. Me and Chris Ryan broke it Me and Chris Ryan broke it down. Check that on Spotify or wherever you get your down check that on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. The The bill Simmons podcast is presented by FanDuel Simmons podcast is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. The NBA is back. There's no better place to bet the action than on Fandel sports there's no better place to bet the action than on FanDuel's book. This basketball basketball season Look, they have the best ads. And what I like is they're not scared of games have grown on, you know what I like is they're not scared if games are going on. You know what? They'll keep the division a heads They'll keep the division odds up. up. They'll keep the conference odds up for They'll keep the conference odds up for NBA. They might even keep the MVP odds They might even keep the MVP odds. up. They're not scared by what might happen from They're not scared by what might happen from game. If you're feeling the urge, you're watching where's game, Steph's going you're feeling the urge, you're watching 76ers game, Steph's going nuts. Just say to yourself, you know Just say to yourself, you know what? what? I'm putting, putting down a little Steph MVP I'm putting putting down a little Steph MVP money. It'll probably be probably be there. Plus you can combine multiple bets from the same Plus, you can combine multiple bets from the same game you're about to watch in a same game parlay. Discover the most popular same game parlays each day right? When you log in, you get your winnings when you log in. You get your winnings fast. Now winnings are delivered. 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This episode of The Bose Simmons Podcast is brought to you by Nissan at home. With Nissan at home, you can go online to shop drive and buy a new Nissan entirely from home. Delivered direct from dealer to driveway. Wow. Thrill starts Thrilled starts here. Services may vary at participating dealers subject to applicable Services may vary at participating dealers subject to applicable law C dealer for details. We're also brought to you as you know by FanDuel's sports book where we've been messing around with some same game parleys for the NBA on Wednesday nights. We're gonna do it tomorrow. Let's do it, Cavs to win to beat the rockets, Evan Mobley, over for points, Evan Mobley, over for rebounds, all three have to hit. It is a same is a same game partly they're gonna boost it for you. Check it out on Wednesday on FanDuel Sportsbook to see what the official odds Check it out on Wednesday on FanDuel Sportsbook to see what the official odds are. We're We're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network, as well as ringer films, where the last film of our music box areas is set to premier on Thursday 8:00 also brought to you by the ringer podcast network as well as ringer films, where the last film of our music box series is set to premiere on Thursday, eight PM. It is called juice world into the abyss that is directed by Tommy all It is called Juice World into the abyss. It is directed by Tommy over. It is really It is really tremendous. Hope you check it you check it out. It's also available on HBO max as It's also available on HBO Max as well. We only have one guest today. It's Jackie McBaughn. We're gonna talk NBA, there's a lot to cover. First, our friends from Belgium. Alright, Jackie MacMullan. Tape of this Tuesday morning. Rainy day in LA. I don't know what the weather's like in Boston. Weird times for me. Weird times in the NBA. I'll say. A lot of topsy-turvy stuff. I think I wanna start here because haven't talked about this in the podcast yet. We have Luca and we have Zion. These two guys that we were thinking were potentially the future of the league along with Johannes and couple others you're looking at the twenty seven and 76ers. Luka shows up out of shape and he's battled a bunch of injuries and just looks too he's looked too heavy all year and it's really disappointing. We can talk about him in a We could talk about him in a second. The zion thing is more alarming because we have this foot injury that we found out about right before the season. They were kinda yeah, he he probably will be ready for start of the season. We knew that wasn't true because it was Jones fracture. There were sites of him just looking way bigger than he used to when there's all kinds of bearing reports on how much weighs. Now we found out there's a setback That team sucks. Odds are they shelve him for another season, it looks Luka. And he has an extension coming up. This is the first time and I I was all in on him. I was like, I don't know what you guys are seeing. I I think this guy has a chance to be a generational offensive player. The question was, can he stay on the The question was, Cavs you stand in the court? I'm starting to get really, really worried. don't think I'm alone. Where do you where do you stand? What have you heard? Well, when you start having reports that you wait three hundred and thirty pounds and you're not an offensive lineman for the New York Giants or something, you're you're in trouble. And and, you know, our eye tests. Right? There's always the eye tests. And we've talked about this a thousand times. Sometimes, guys look big. And they look overweight and they're not. That's just not true with Zion. Yep. He was playing too big even when he was healthy. And he's a force to be reckoned with. I could see where everybody falls and love them. He's got a great personality. You know, he should be one of these guys you're talking about. One of these generational players that we're gonna have on the cover of all those video games that everybody loves so much. But there was just the thing the thing about him from the weight because I do think it's related somehow is, you know, at the end of last year, there was stuff reports coming out of his camp. I never know what that means. His family unhappy with stamping and gunning. Sorry. He's gone. You know? He's out. And and now, you know, unhappy with the way the Pelicans have handled things. Well, hold on a minute here. About the way you're handling Ringer's. Because ultimately, you're responsible for your own body. And I've I've watched this for forty years now in sports. And back in the day, in the old school days, you were it was up to you to take care of yourself during the offseason because teams didn't have four trained 76ers. And they couldn't afford to send someone to have a state of the art facility that you could show up to every day. Xi has all of these things that is disposable. Not to mention a multimillion dollar contract with a shoe company that you think would be invested in making sure that he's training properly and eating properly. 76ers team has one or more nutritionists. So I think, particularly in this day and age bill, that it's come to this for him, is extremely alarming because there is help everywhere you turn. All you have to do is ask, or if you're the team, you should be proactive and require it. So, yes, I do think this is a major problem, major problem for the Pelicans. And and, you know, 76ers one of those guys and we talk about this all the time. These great young players, Donovan Mitchell with the Utah Jazz. You know, he signed he signed the extension. Will he stay? Will he end up happily ever after there? Trey Young with the Atlanta Hawks who's become the face of that franchise and, you know, they're having troubles now. We could talk about that if you want. I do. Okay. Yeah. And we should But later Even later Shall that? Right. Right. But my point is, these are the guys that, you know, you're you're supposed are you gonna Are we convinced they're gonna live happily ever after in market? Didn't you realize from the day one was Xi'an? That dude had New York City in his eyes, stars in his eyes about being somewhere else almost from the beginning. So if I'm the I really, really bummed out for a lot of reasons. This is an amazing sliding doors thing for them with all the ways the team they could Cavs put together could happen versus how it happened, where you have Well, let's start with the cyan physical piece. The older I get And I'm sure you hit this point at some point as you recover in the league where you just kinda see the same patterns over and over again. And alright. What what what constitutes success for somebody? What constitutes greatness? What are what are, like, the things you need? And I think as as I look at somebody like Diane. He has all these role models around the league where you can look at somebody like LeBron and you go, alright, that guy all he cares about is putting his body in the optimal shape to be good. And that's it. And now it's year 19 for now it's year nineteen for him, and he's still in a leap player. You look at somebody like Yanes, who just has it, Luka, he just gets it. And that sounds like this dumb media thing where you're like, oh, I wish all the guys were Luka, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying Johannes gets it. Like he wants to get Luka, he wants to get better. He understands how important his body is, how staying in shape is, and he's getting the he's maximizing whatever his potential is. And we see that if you watch the the the man in the arena about Brady, Same thing. Right? You see Brady scrambling on Sunday? He's faster now than he was when he was twenty four because he's optimizing everything he can get out of his his body. And I think that's why Zion and Luka, I I feel like it's the same conversation for each Luka and not as bad as Zion. I think Zion has he's already had some major injuries, Luca has not. But to not understand even at a young age, this is my body. This is my life. I have a chance to be truly great. And to just not be in shape is unfathomable, but we aspect. We have so much we have so much evidence now. We have so many decades. This isn't Larry Bird in the mid eighties you know, because they trade Rick Roby, he's decides to not drink beer as much. Like, we know all this stuff now. We have all these tools. We have cryo chambers and hyperbaric chambers and yoga and pilates and we know how to eat and, like, Haralba was on the podcast Couple weeks ago talking about how Luca loves sweet tea in the Dallas Slacker. I'm Luka, great athletes shouldn't drink sweet tea. You know? And I I'm just I know these guys are young, but I'm also amazed they don't get it. Well, and I think the problem for Luca is compounded by the fact he goes home. He goes home in the summer to Slovenia where he's an absolute god. And he's he's an absolute god here in this country pretty much too. But he goes home there and You know, I I went back and looked because I thought I'll give I'll give Luca credit for being so very honest and saying, you know what? Played in the Olympics. took three weeks off. I relaxed. Maybe I relaxed a bit too much. At least he's owning it to a certain degree. That that you get points with me for that. Yep. But I went back and looked because this was very familiar to me because last December, do you remember the I don't know if you remember this. Mark Cuban did an interview And he said, well, I can explain why Luca looks heavy to you guys. Why he looks out of weight? You know, he was all set to train with the Slovenian national team and you know, then COVID You know, he was all set to train with the Slovenian national team and, you know, then COVID hit. So so he couldn't train with the the Selenia national team. So what? He he can't train at all. Right. So So, you know, he's just getting seven big Hawks'. Right? So again, here's my So again, here's my point. So I think it's always been a problem when guys go home and they they they they're relying on themselves. Now if I 76ers Dallas Mavericks, that Not a problem for Yokig, by the way. Yokig has something managed to figure it out. Yeah. But he didn't early on, and that's the point I'm gonna make with both of these guys. They're very very young. Go back and look at a young Tom Brady. I was standing Bill three feet from him. When he when he had his hands on his head when they won the first Super Bowl. He did not look what he looks like now, and he was a hell of a lot younger. Somewhere along the way he started to realize this was part of gaining an edge. You know? And that's what it is gaining an edge. Johannes gets that. Johannes gets that right now. I really do. I'm taking a hundred percent. Gets it. But not everybody does right. Luka, Russell Westbrook always got it. Right? But not everybody gets it right out of box. And if you're Luca, you're one of the best players in world whether you drink sweet tea or not. Now, maybe, maybe now, he's realizing because he's out with ankle soreness. He's, okay. I've gotta I gotta I gotta change this a bit. He's got a new coach. He's got an owner that 76ers by him. So maybe they sit down and say, look. When you go home to Slovenia this summer, you're going home with some extra people. And they're and because we know you wanna work, but sometimes when you get home, you get comfortable. Now, Xi'on That to me is a completely different situation because the injuries are serious. Number one, he hasn't even established himself enough hasn't played enough to really establish enough number two. And clearly, the trust between the player and the organization is nowhere near the same. As it is in Dallas with Cuban and with Doncic. So I think there you know, one is very very precarious. The other one to me it be solved. I mean, there's there's other players we've seen as they went through their careers that realize. I mean, again, not everybody's real, Alan. Right? Right. Alan. Right. Alan played as long as he did because he was meticulous in he has OCD. He was meticulous in everything. He ate everything he did. And and I've always argued too, the Kobe Bryant. The most underrated part of all his considerable skills was his longevity. It's longevity is is a great under rated skill, and it takes a tremendous amount of work. And that's why you do have to look at LeBron and say, Whoa. Pretty amazing. It's maintenance. Right? It's, like, if you have a nice car that, you know, you have, like, some old classic car, that car has to be in a garage and covered and you gotta eat that's what these bodies are like. Tom Brady is the interesting one because, you know, the the first couple Super Bowls that run-in the in the first half of the two thousands. He's hanging out with William McDonald and Kevin Brady, and they're going back bay five nights a week, and he talks about it in the main and the arena. He's like, I realized at some point, like, everything I was doing off the field affected the results on the FeelGood. And I wanted what happened on the field so badly that I realized I had to change what I did off FeelGood. And that's why I give Luca and I'm much more concerned about the Zion thing. Do you know how many games Diane has played? What do you think on top of your head? What do you think? NBA games. Twenty five or something? Maybe more little more. Am I am I No. He's had two seasons. No. He's playing Okay. I'll take it last year. So twenty five last year. So fifty four. Yeah. Eighty five. Total. He isn't even sound a hundred gig yet. See, to me, in my mind, he isn't there at all. You know? It's just not there at all. So I'm going low on that. Imagine that I'm going low on that number. I was thinking twenty five games last year. How many did he play last How many did they play last year? You haven't So he he's sixty one last year. He's pretty healthy, and he was in decent shape, not in crazy. Isn't that funny? I don't remember him ever that way. Yeah. Because I just look at him and I guess maybe I was one of the ones that came in with the preconceived notion that you're you're carrying too much weight to be an effective NBA player for long. You know, Charles Barkley is another person we should mention. Charles Barkley came in as the ramble, the rebound actually gained twenty five pounds on purpose, so that sixes wouldn't draft him. It didn't work. Moses Malone finally got a hold of him. He got in at some point in his career when he was in Philly and and bit in Phoenix in tremendous shape. And then, of course, let it go near the end in Houston. Which is why he done. Why Carl Malone probably passed them on the all time list because he had these extra years that that's a great body weight more seriously. Barclays is a good example. Barclay also had Dr. Jade Moses and Andrew Tony and Mochik's. And he's talked about how much it meant to have that information. Major influence on him. Did you go back to you go back to New Orleans, and this is Luka the sliding doors thing where basically 76ers move they make doesn't work out. Right? They have the fourth pick in the draft. Darius Garland, who we're gonna talk about Cleveland after the break. Like, they could've just taken Darius Garland. They could've they could've taken Deandre Hunter. They trade back and you know, they get Alexander Walker and Jackson Hayes, whatever whatever that trait turned out to be, but there was Luka blue chippers on the board. They had blue chipper in Drew holiday. And they banked on, you know, maybe Johannes doesn't stay in Milwaukee. Maybe we'll get these Maybe we'll get these pics and it was always the promise of what's to come. They they could have put together a really nice team around these guys. They had Lonzo. They had lot of fun to say. Lonzo is a winning player. They had him. And they couldn't figure out the worst player. They had multiple coaches, you know, that that just the turmoil of the situation. And, you know, I think Griffin it's one of the all time bad jobs. I think he did an okay job in Cleveland, but it's one of the all time bad jobs in New Orleans. Like, they are in a horrible place Desiah is a complete disaster. They don't seem like they have any oversight of him. And now you're looking at Okay. He's due for an extension. The number there. How how are you possibly gonna give him an extension? The Denver Michael Porter thing? That would scare the shit out of me for life for any other extension where it's alright, here's a guy with red flags everywhere. I don't fuck it. Let's just do it. Or you could let's wait. Yeah. I mean, it's it's amazing when you think about all these players, these young players with these serious, serious problems at the age of twenty one, twenty two. And that makes me go back to some I remember did a story a few years back about, you know, peak performance. That's basically the gist of it. And the idea of over training in AU games and how when kids are young, the mileage they put on their bodies, they don't even know they're doing it, and no one is overseeing it. And and he he used Michael Porter as an example. don't know if that's fair or unfair. I really don't know because I I haven't been around Michael Porter's training staff. I wasn't there at his AAU games, but you know, a kid like Zion, you wonder about the pounding and the miles you put on before you've even gotten to this part of league where it gets really difficult, really I wasn't there at his AAU games. But, you know, a kid like Zion, you wonder about the pounding and the miles you put on before you've even got to this part of the league where it gets really difficult, really fast. And some of the old school guys talk about that sometimes. You know, I wasn't playing eight games a weekend, and traveling three hundred miles to do it in my parent station wagon. You know, there's just it takes a toll. And that's the other thing too, is we We talk about game management and it's interesting to me that all these players and teams that know better are still letting, like, Kevin Durant, for instance, play thirty six or thirty seven. That's crazy. Right? Crazy. But that but that's Nash being, like, a warrior who's, like, I was a great player. I get it. But I would be really more careful with with the rent. I just Yeah. Because we have all these we have all this data now, and I know people hate data, but it's valuable. We have data that tells us that rest is important, that that that load management is a real thing, that pop isn't crazy, why anyone would ever doubt pop anyway. You know? Well, the wear and tear thing with kids, I remember that piece she wrote, it was really good. And I have a I have a couple of friends who had kids playing an AU basketball. And they would tell me about what the weekend was like. Ah. And and I just couldn't believe it. couldn't believe how many games that were in one weekend and it wasn't when I was at Holy Cross at Joe House and I would play intramurals for three hours. We weren't then getting up and doing that the next day for another seven hours, you know, and I I think that There's such pressure, there's so much money at stake, and they just constantly more and more games, more and more, let's go. And we're, you know, we're off on a little tangent here, my daughter played a AU basketball and my daughter was a very fine high school athlete. She was not a great basketball player. In fact, basketball is probably her worst sport, the one she loved the most. She wanted to play au, but we just were not committed as a family to doing that kind of Yeah. -- practice required and then the traveling Crichton plus she wasn't good enough. Let me state that first and foremost. Oh, she was not gonna get a college scholarship. No matter how many tournaments we played in, She was very fortunate to get to play at a division three school and have herself a great time. But what we ended up doing was joining an AU team that we actually formed among the parents when we practiced at a local gym, we had study hall the first hour. I was ended up being in, like, a not really a coach, more of a assistant volunteer, if you will. And they if if you didn't have your homework done first hour, you were in the gym, you were in the classroom next to the gym getting your work done. Now this is all well and good for kids. You know, we weren't entirely whitey, but mostly suburban white kids who could pay whose parents could pay for college. Now think about young kids from the inner city, whether they're white or black, whose families can't afford it. And the pressure becomes, I need to go to Zayo's terms because this kid needs to be discovered. Otherwise, he can't he or she can't go to college because we can't afford it. Yep. And it's just it's a scary scary that's we're we're off on a tangent. We Doncic we don't put out on that rabbit. But I think the wear and tear of zion plus, like, we have pretty good ways now of just looking at somebody's running style, their gate, the stress they put on different parts of their bodies, and their their people always worried about zion. There 76ers always these you know, YouTube doctor detectives who would break down these clips and, like, I don't like the way he he puts a lot of pressure on the outside of his legs. I'm at the point with Zion where I'm I'm about to drop a pretty big question on you, but we're gonna take a break. This episode of The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by QuickBooks. Being a small business owner requires you to wear a lot of hats. And sometimes those hats aren't always the best fit. I remember when we were launching a ringer in two thousand fifteen, I had no idea how many things there were to do when you're starting a business? Oh my god. I I I'm still having nightmares about it. You think it'll be fun? I'll I'll start. No. Don't do it that way. You need help. You may not be super confident taking on the books for your business but with QuickBooks live bookkeeping. It's not problem. Introducing the biggest advancement in small business bookkeeping. 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Take 40% [email protected] slash BS Take forty percent off at simplisafe dot com slash b s today. So specifically to us, simplisafe dot com slash b s. Alright. Come on back. Here's my Zayan question. Because I don't think New Orleans can give him that extension. extension. That actually could be the end of basketball, new That actually could be the end of basketball in New Orleans. Orleans. Now maybe that's maybe that's okay. Maybe that maybe it's time for them to get out of that market and go to Seattle or Vegas or whatever. Mhmm. whatever. Fair point fair pam fair point. If you're if you're a team like the Knicks and you basically botched last summer, in a whole bunch of different ways. And you're kind of in no man's land. You're not you're one of the ten worst teams in the league now. Randall, you made a bet on hoping that last year was who he was, and was. And it turns out last year was probably a little bit of an turns out last year was probably little bit of an aberration. And the guy we saw in the playoffs, who's horrendous. It's not that's not who he is either, but it's somewhere in between that. Somewhere in between those two. And now you're, like, holy We're paying this guy twenty five billion year. year. Do you make a move on Zion right make a move on Zayan right now? And if you're the Pelicans, What do I have to give up? It's always what do I have to give up? If you're the Pelicans, do you look at this and you go? He's gonna leave at some point. He's certainly gonna miss this season. We don't know if he's ever gonna get back and it's like 76ers an asset that he might not be the same kind of asset in a year. You don't have the pieces to put around him. You don't have fans coming to your games anyway. Is this weirdly is this weirdly a trade asset? And if you're the Knicks, you think you look at it and you go, okay, I have this distressed asset in a terrible situation. I can bring him in in. We can just throw a team of people at him in a ton of money and try to get his just throw a team of people at him and a ton of money, try to get his body and now we could have one of the ten best players in the league. I would overpay for that that. If I was this, I was next. That's a really interesting thought. You're a clever guy, Bill. Thanks. Thank you. I was just I was trying to think about as Knicks. What would I do? Won't my movie? And I would I would be calling Indiana constantly trying to get Subonis Me too. That would be my Wait. Wait. But I'd also be calling the Sixers. And say Simmons. Let's yeah. Let give me Simmons and and maybe I can you know, let's get third team involved Maybe I can end up with, you know, with maybe it is with Indiana. Maybe do a three team deal, and I give you some pics and We move things around and I end up with Simmons. If I'm the Knicks, I think that helps me a lot. Yeah. But that would involve So what are the sixers? Sixers would have to That would have to Rich Paul dealing with worldwide West and Lead Rose. Pretty sure that's not happening. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what, if, if rich Paul and I, I think you, sometimes you put that stuff aside cause you got to get business But you know what? If if Rich Paul and III think you sometimes you put that stuff aside because you gotta get business done. I don't know. That's what mean, you gotta you gotta do what's best for your client. He and, you know, he tried to steal all their clients ten years ago. He tried to steal all their basketball roster. When he left the ball in the middle of the ball. So let me but if you're the Knicks, like, what will you give up? Like, up? Like, you're going to have to give up RJ Barrett or who do you give gonna have to give up. RJ Barrett or who you give up? You know, you're gonna have to give up a lot, probably a pick. You definitely have to get a pick. My favorite shade shade. My favorite shade for the decks, or if you're talking about Zion, favorite shade for the Knicks. Oh, if you're talking about Diane? No. No. I'm talking I'm talking about Simmons. Luka, with this A3A3 way with Pacers. Pacers. So you end up with, if you're the, so like the Sixers to me was Simmons this top 30 player So you end up with if you're the so, like, the 76ers to me, Williamson's. This top thirty player thing. No. Who is it? I it? I mean, I just don't see I just don't see it. So so now you have to figure out a way to end up with Luka, and carousel of air or something, you know? Something like that. Sebonus bonus. Does it make sense for the make sense for the 76ers. That's the part that doesn't Yeah. Alright. So I wrote my externa. Or how about T. J. Warren? I Warren? I don't know. You know, I'm just throwing names at you, like, two really good players So okay. Are we can I are we segueing into the sixers? No. No. Hold on. Because I I have a point on this. Okay. Okay. You know, who makes sense for the Sixers Ben know who makes sense for the sixers? Ben Simmons. 76ers kind of exactly say that. He's kind of exactly what they need. Somebody who can handle the ball and play defense. I I watch him and it's Luka, that's the guy they need. You know what? what? You're walking right into my walking right into my point. So I looked it up for you. And last year, the 76ers were number three in fast break. Transition points. Okay? They're very rudimentary. I know people don't like it bogged down down. This year, they're thirteenth. Okay? Last year, Which is basic as basic offense as you can get points per game. Number nine, last year, twenty first in the league this year, and points per game. Okay? Okay. Assists 17th in the league this year, last year, 24th in the league this seventeenth in the league this last year, twenty fourth in the league this year. So what does Simmons do for you? He can move the ball a bit for you, but mostly in Trump's breaks. He makes you run. Ice breaks. And defensively, he has an impact on the game. So you're right. What they miss is him. Now problem is he can't go back there. And and while just quickly, while we were talking about Ben Simmons to the Knicks, are you sure that a guy that has some questions about his mental health wants to go to New York. Is that my best idea? I don't see that one. The Simmons thing I like Maxi, but I don't know if he's a starting point guard yet in a way. think he's an energy guy off the bench, kinda overqualified for that. I don't think he's I gotta make sure everybody on my team is getting some and, oh, Danny Green has gotten a shot in a while. I get he's basically Yeah. I go to the basket guy. With the Knicks though, the the obvious trade to me seems to be Turner, topping, a pick, something else where Turner is actually with the Hawks'' need. They need it, like, a real center. I think the Mitch Robinson thing has probably run its course at this point, but And if you're Indiana, you gotta pick between one of those two guys and they're both assets. You can get -- Right. -- something legitimate for them. Now if we're talking about Zyon, and what the Knicks would have to give up for them. They have a they have bunch of pics. Right? They do bunch of pics like all that stuff. They have top and they have RJ Barrett. And there's a world where Pelicans could do this and then they spin it as we don't think this guy's ever gonna be in shape, like, two weeks later and and Or we just don't think he's ever gonna day here. You know? You know, both. The combo of them. So And to you with with the Simmons thing, I can't tell what's real or not because we never know anymore in this modern world of basketball journalism where people are carrying water for a lot of different people at all times. And it's like, 078 teams interested in Ben Simmons. It's like, hey, are they or are they just, Luka, you know, sitting as tech saying, what's going on with Ben, but not actually interested? Let me give you the best example. oh, the the 76ers are interested in I mean, the Celtics are interested in Ben Simmons. Okay. Well, yeah, they might be interested in them if they could trade, you know, Pacers Crichton and whomever. But they're not interested in them. If you want Taylor Brown. Right. If it's Marcus Smart and Robert Williams and Payton Prichard and a pig, they're they're a hundred percent interested. Right. Right. So that's that's the find Latin between all of this. What's interested? interested. Who's interested for interested for real? And, you know, I know, for instance, Daryl Morey loves Janelle Brown. I just know that from you know, conversations from years gone by or whatever. But the Pelicans aren't there yet. I don't know if they'll ever get there. mean, you know, I don't know if you watched the game last night. They that was Janelle Brown's first came back. They look, if they move the ball like that, everything would be great. If you if you move the ball and defend like that, let Tatum have is forty or whatever the heck it was. I don't even remember. That's fine. But, you know, the problem with them is consistency. But if I'm bread, steams, I'm not given up on jail and brown and Jason Tatum yet. I'm just not. So I'm not trading not happening until next summer unless Yeah. It's just never happening for me. So our team is interested. Like, you know, the Ringer's, they interested? Of course, they're interested. interested. You can have probably anybody you want, you know, you could probably have deer and Fox at this point, but he'll You can have probably anybody you want. You know, you could probably have DR and FOX at this point. Buddy healed. Oh my god. That team that team said, I think they've set the record for players only meetings in the first two months of a season. Unbelievable. So if you're Daryl, at what point do you say? Alright. I'm not gonna get Jaylen Brown as an example. example. So maybe, maybe I would take, you know, Darren Fox and buddy So maybe I maybe I would take you know, Dear and Fox and Buddy Heel. Maybe that works for me. I don't I don't, I don't don't know. I would rather keep banning hope it works out. I the trade that Well, he will. He's not. He's never going to panic. No. He's gonna he'll sit and sit and sit because the team has structured right now, has other issues anyway. You know, and Beads already missed eleven games. He's got this rib sorta, so it's not not a big deal. Everything's a big deal when you're the centerpiece of the team and you get injured. I'm sorry. It is a big deal. deal. I think the trade that makes the most sense has made the most sense for a while would be Ben Simmons for Brandon Ingram. I like that trade for each side, and I think it's It allows New Orleans to reset to throw away this season basically, get then reaccomated, try to figure out if they can get zion in shape, and then ultimately come out of that with two real assets potentially. I like Ben Simmons more than brand and Ringer's person. I'm not huge conglomerate. I was I was gonna say, I mean, I just you know how I feel about Ben Simmons, the player. I understand what he's done. I mean, if I told you in the summer, hey, Bill, by the time we get to Christmas, neither Ben Simmons or Kyrie Irving will have played a game. I mean, and that John Wall would have played I don't know how many games as John Wildblade twenty or something. I don't know. It's just the weirdest thing. It's just so weird that these two players have not played one single game. It it astonishes me. And it gives you an idea, I think, at how rich this league has become, how wealthy it's become how you Cavs take that that kind of asset and just eat it because you're looking at the long haul and you don't have to worry about because your team's worth billions Your players are worth hundreds of and it's just I I think it's amazing. I think there's more to it than that. And it goes back to what we're talking about where you have this reservoir reservoir of just evidence, the longer we have the NBA. Right? And -- Mhmm. -- what are what are one of things we know about trades? You never wanna be the team that's getting the three pieces for the one really good person. That's right. Everyone's terrified to make the Charles Barclay for Jeff Hornacek. What was that? Andrew Andrew Lang and I don't know if we would have whatever. With Tim Pan or Harry. I think that was it. Oh, was it Tim Harry? Oh, jeez. Nobody wants to make that trade anymore. So it's Luka, I'm sure teams are calling I'm sure Dallas is calling the Nets, and I'm sure they're like, hey, what about Porsenka and Jalen Brunson? And the nets are just Luka, no. We're not we're not gonna do that. We would rather have the answer. think teams realize, like, there's fifty five guys total that make a difference. And after that, there's is there difference between, like, Danny Green and, you know, whoever? Like, no. Interesting. So who who would you like of the of the Pacers roster? Who would you think would give Philly some hope? Some help? I mean, so bonus, you're right. That's a redundant skill. So that doesn't work. Turner to some degree is a redundant skill. Yeah? Give or take. take. I don't like the two of them together. I've never liked the two of them together. I personally absolutely love cibonus. And if I like cibonus too. If there was a bonus Jalen Brown conversation, I wouldn't go running into a bedroom lock in the door. I'm door. I think Indiana would have to give up I think Indian would have to give up more. And by the way, I don't wanna don't wanna j jaylen. I wanna keep jaylen and Tatum. But if Sabonis was really on the table, I just think he's an untapped resource. resource. I don't like the cut last I don't like the cut last year that last year that coaching situation was an all time debacle. They've never been able to figure out this Twin Towers thing with them. And think if you put him on a team that really used all the skills he has, because I think he's -- Mhmm. -- he's good passer. He's just really smart. Nice. Very good player. player. He's great at exploited great at exploiting mismatches. I just wanna see him on a good team at some point in my life. So if you're the Celtics and you could figure out how to get some bonus while keeping the J's, I would have go all in on that. If there's any way to do that, I would do it. Well, I mean, Carlisle is a defensive minded coach. They wanna do what they're calling a medium rebuild. I don't know. Does he want Mark as smart? I think Marcus has more value than he does to the people that have to watch him every day. Like, I went to the Cooper game last week and It was the full Marcus experience. experience. Right? When he turned it on defensively, he ate up Reggie Jackson for, like, a quarter. On the other hand, he did eleven things I disagreed with offensively. And -- Right. -- the team kinda ebbs and flows. He's got a weird energy. I don't It's like he wants to be the leader, but he's not quite good enough. enough. And I don't, I didn't really feel like the, the other guys, at least I, it was so important to go see them in I don't I didn't really feel like the the other guys, at least I it was so important to go see them in person. I person. I don't think they dislike each other or anything, but the vibe is definitely weird and Doka stands don't think they dislike each other or anything, but the vibe's definitely weird. No. I don't Adonis stands there at mid court, and he's kind of I don't know. The intensity on him is weird. Well, he -- Yeah. -- he's a stiff. Right? He's everyone's watching. Well, Yeah. Well, like it's almost like watching, so I'm just gonna like he's in class and the teacher might tell me to sit up straight or I don't know him at it's almost like everybody's watching, so I'm just gonna Luka, he's in class and the teacher might tell me to sit up straight or I don't know him at all. He's very guarded guarded. You know, I'm not around the team every day anymore, obviously, but I've been around people who have, and he's in, he's, he's hard to penetrate for people around that I'm not around the team every day anymore obviously, but I've been around people who Cavs he's in he's hard to penetrate. For people around that team. And, you know, I don't think that's true with the players. Yeah. I think he's good with the 76ers, but everybody's surrounding them. It's it's it's been difficult to penetrate him. And, you know, I think Brad, in a lot of ways, was similar, but just a little more affable and a little more you know, smiling as he tells you nothing kind of thing, you know? Yeah. There's so I think Brad likes that. I that. I don't think Brad likes, you know, Danny, I saw Danny, by the way at Kevin McHale was inducted into the new England museum sports hall of think Brad likes You know, Danny I saw Danny, by the way, Kevin McHale was inducted into the New England Museum Sports Hall of Fame. Yeah. And Danny was there, and I have never seen him happier, more relaxed, relaxed. He, he is just like for re living in Utah, just having himself a time, you know, and just the stress gone from his he is just Luka a re living in Utah just having himself a time, you know. And just stress gone from his Pacers. And yet think about Danny and his personality and his imprint on that franchise, franchise. He took all the heat for his he took all the heat for his team team. A lot of the times, if there was some kind of controversy or something simmering, he would say something I almost think lot of the times, if there was some kind of controversy or something simmering, he would say something. I almost think purposely purposely. So the tension would go to him and go away from the the the tension would go to him and go away from the players. That's a famous Gino Ariama trick, actually. Right. Just to do that when their teams were ranked number one and there was some kind of controversy. He would say something really volatile, so they'd all look at him and start looking away from, you know, the young players that he was trying to protect. protect. So also think the league is just really talented right now. Because even if you look at the standings, the Clippers are sixteen and twelve, which is the ninth best record in the league. And the Knicks are twelve and fifteen, which is the tenth worst record in the week. So you have twelve teams between sixteen and twelve and twelve and fifteen. Right. The middle class and everybody has at least one guy who you'd really want and everybody's got some young guys that you might be interested in. And then even when you go to, like, the Houston OKC Orlando to Detroit, like, those Those aren't, like, shit teams, like, we used to have in the past. Like, even I watched -- Right. Right. -- I watched them play the nets the other day. And Durant's they needed, like, every bit at Durant's fifty one. You know? I Jade. Grant just got hurt, but, you know, they're not they're not a complete shit show, show. And that's the worst team in the that's the worst theme in the league. See, I think Grant might be available though, Bill, because his contract is up. Yeah. He You know, so he's he's someone that I think can get moved. And he's I know he's out now, but he's someone that I think you could very well see get moved. I wanna talk about the Cavs, but let's take a break. This episode of The Boseman's podcast is brought to bed Miller Lite. Today's Miller time, time. Getting into the holiday spirit is as simple as giving your friends and family the gift of Miller into the holiday spirit is as simple as giving your friends and family the gift of Miller time. It's time. It's never been easier with limited edition holiday wrapping paper packaging on select packs of Miller never been easier. With limited edition holiday wrapping paper packaging on select packs of Biller Lite. When light. When you get a Miller light golf you get Biller Lite golf bag, bag. Great for that one, maybe I'll get that for that one buddy. Maybe I'll get that for a house. Wonder house. I wonder if he has a motor like golf bag already, I'll have to find out hoodies holiday if he has a motor light golf bag already. I'll have to find out. Hoodies, holiday sweaters, sweaters. They don't have the great they don't have the great 76ers. posters. Like the one that I have in my man-cave above my right shoulder of the 1986, NBA champs, Boston Celtics Miller the one that I have in my man cave above my right shoulder of the nineteen eighty six NBA champ Boston Pelicans, Lite. Yeah. They don't have that. that. That's a one-on-one that's in my house, but they have everything a one on one. That's in my house. But they have everything else. else. The perfect gifts for Miller light lovers for more gift ideas is that the Miller light The perfect gifts for Miller Lite lovers for more gift ideas Visit the Miller Lite shop at shop dot miller Lite dot com. Give [email protected]. 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So whether you're in the type football fan that spends your Sunday managing your fantasy lineup from your couch like me or you're the one managing all the tailgate logistics used to be like me. State Farm has you covered with surprisingly great rates on car insurance? Gotta say in this scenario? I'm definitely the first man. fan. Do not talk to me until my lineup is set like a good neighbor state farm is there, get a quote not talk to me until my lineup is set. Like neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. Alright. today. right. So the Cleveland Cavaliers are 17 and the Cavaliers, are seventeen and twelve. The the seventh best team in the league right now is Memphis at seventeen eleven. The Cavs are seventeen and twelve. Sean Grande tweeted this thing. And I thought he was kidding. That they would be our four 76ers with home field advantage, home court advantage and round one. If the season is, like, Memphis and Cleveland. That's great. I like that. That's unbelievable. I like that. believable. Memphis got lucky with the Miranda got lucky with the Durant thing. Cleveland honestly got lucky with the Moby thing that he dropped the three. That was absurd. But you watch FeelGood. Isn't he? He is right. Oh my god. You watch him them. And you think like Garland, they struck oil with, and I don't know whether Philly could have had Garland and love and a pick for Simmons during the summer or you think, like, Garland, they struck oil with. And -- Yeah. -- I don't know if whether Philly could had Garland in love in a pick for Simmons during the summer or not. not. I've never been able to confirm never been able to confirm that. Yes or no, but that's a tough beat for Philly if that if that trade was on the table. But Cleveland has they have the heart of the two thousand eleven Minnesota timberwolves Rubio and Kevin Love who I thought really had good chemistry together one ten years ago, But love now has come off the bench as, you know, this kind of the the high end of this would be the Bill Walt and eighty six Celtics example. But obviously, he's not that. But they have this guy that can come off the bench who's been a first team on BA or second team on BA. Wow. Who knows what he's doing? Yeah. The game last night. It makes you kind of re jodge your memory. I think it's been an interesting metamorphous with love because he's had these incidents that were close to in subordination. Yeah. In subordination, really. And I think he's been dealing with a lot. I think it's hard to be the last guy stand there, but they're very smart in the way they've handled them. Think he's playing about twenty minutes a game. I looked it up this morning. He's shooting almost forty one percent from the three point line. So that's what you bring him off to do. You you know, they're bed healthy. They bring him in radio. Yeah. And it's like they actually extend leads and stuff. Rubio has been pretty I mean, he's cooled off some. He was he was shooting over forty percent for the three point line. He is no longer. He's cold off, you know, he's cold off considerably. considerably. But that team mobily that I don't know, two weeks ago or a week and a half ago, I don't know the block on But that team Mobley that I don't know. It was two weeks ago or a week and a half ago. I don't have the block on Lillard. Did you see him a guy? It was awesome. Lillard was going basically, going up and I'm like, we kinda just got a block of shot. It was pretty cool. cool. He kind of reminds me, people keep saying Chris Bosch, man, I think he's got to let it kinda reminds me, people keep saying, Chris Bosch, man, I think he's got a lot of a lot of Kevin Garnett in him. Need to too. I that was the guy I've I've said the whole time. Yeah. Like a a less a less maniacal, Kevin Garrett. Right. I mean, but it's just such a good defensive player, and so few rookies come in as a as a as a as a good defensive player. A lot of them tried to beat and they filed too much and they overplay and, you know, they they try to block every shot, so then everybody just up fakes you and you end up on the bench for five fouls Luka, not him. He's he's really he's got great timing. He's I I really like him. And and you know, or I would say he's I would say he's an elite defensive player already. I really do. I think he's one of the best people at that position. Small sample size. But, yeah, I mean, defensively. They're they're they're in the top three in the league defensively. In defensive rating and and scoring defense. I mean, they're legit. And and you remember when we were sort of poke and fun at them because they were signing all these they were they were gathering all these centers when they had Jared Allen and -- Yeah. -- Andrey Drummond Well, I mean, the laughs on us, Jared Allen, we knew when they got him, we're like, well, yeah, he's a really good player, but you don't really need him. Well, yeah, they do. Yeah. They do. And they just got rid of the other guys. So -- Right. -- that was a really good score for them. I mean I you to under what? I liked when they got them because I just thought he was this cheap asset. They need needed to be thrown in the deal because they didn't wanna give up the Andre Jordan and Cavs like, okay, sure. We'll take them. And I think there's a bunch of fans and teams including me. That 76ers Luka, couldn't we grab Jared Allen? Where were we on that? Exactly. Where why did we throw in the non lottery pick for him? But can we go back a minute? To why Jared Allen had to go. Let's just go back to that for a minute. It's going back to the jump because it goes back to that crazy Duran Kyrie friendship thing with Deandre. Deandre. It's a a disaster. Think about that for a minute. Just think about that for a minute. You because they know Jared Allen was good. Jean Marcz is a smart guy knew how good he was, but to appease Kyrie Irving who is not playing for you right now and has not played a game for you all here. Because he you promised we'd get to Andre join too, by the way, since it's been traded, traded. You let Jared Allen you let Jared Allen go. Think about that. 76ers been a player empowerment. Wow. You know? He's been unplayable for three years. And, like, when the Lakers signed Jordan. He's a nice guy about accounts, but he's he's washed up. He's washed up. He's been washed up for 76ers. And they kept him because you know, I whether Durant Kyrie told them to keep them or whether they were just trying to appease their guys or whatever, but he absolutely should've been throwing that shit. There's no question. question. So unbelievable. And the weirdest thing is that Houston didn't want them either. It didn't have to be a three team trade. Houston could have just been Luka, We'll take them. them. So you have this Cavs situation where you know the best teams in the east, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Chicago, although the COVID stuff with you have this cab situation where, you know, the best teams in the east, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Chicago, although the COVID stuff with them. But I I think that's the top three right now. And then you have Well, this is because That's just because BAM's hurt, though. though. I mean, if bam, bam is healthy with the heat, I think they're mean, if BAM BAM's healthy with the heat, I think they're right there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just saying right now, I think healthy Miami would be our four spot and Cleveland I think is in the just saying right now. think healthy Miami would be our four spot. Yeah. And Cleveland, I think is in the run running. I think I liked their roster and their team better than everyone I think I their roster and their team better than everyone else. Yeah. It's playing hard. They're young. young. They play play together. Git Garland is a star. Mowdley might be a superstar. A koro. You know, I liked that pick for them, but they were just you know, it's been hard to judge them at all up until this season because they were just bad all the time. So it's hard to say. And then your boy, Mark, and then he's helped them. He's helped them, your guy. Yeah. I've watched a lot of the Cavs share, and I might Cavs even wagered on them a few times. They're always Well, they're always in games. games. Like I thought the most interesting one I watched, it was like the seventh, I'm looking it up 7 30, 8 game of the I thought the most interesting one I watched it was, like, the seventh I'm looking it up. Seventh thirtieth game in the season gets the Lakers. And LeBron was really trying because it's Cleveland. Right? He's not -- Of course. -- he's not getting M and 76ers game. And they kinda went toe to toe with him. And then in the end, LeBron and Davis fully bald. Cleveland and they and they end up winning the last five minutes. minutes. But it was like a weirdly impressive it was, like, a weirdly impressive loss because -- Yeah. -- I didn't even think they played that well, but they hung around. They hung around. And right after that, they lost the Phoenix. They won four straight, barely lose the washed in. Then they had their little bump when think Mobley was hurt, and they team immediately tanked. Moby comes back. The teams immediately immediately. together. They're good again. Yeah. Because it's all there. They're their identity is their their identity is defense. It's just too bad about Sexton because you know, it would have helped it would have been nice to see him with them, you know, through the course. And I I mean, I don't I think he's out isn't he out for the year? actually Yeah. But It's tough because I think he was a trade asset for them. Yeah. But he actually made some them. He did, but I think basketball wise, it was, and I hate saying this about injuries, but basketball as I think it was good for Garland, it kind of just made him the car keys, you know, it's like, all but I think basketball wise, it was And I hate saying this about injuries, but basketball was I think it was good for Garland. It kinda just made them the car keys, you know. It's Luka, This is my keys. No. See, I think that was gonna happen anyway. Yeah. And I just think whenever you have depth, guys, young guys that are playing hard and you create competition within your roster. I I always think that's good. But maybe in this day and age, it isn't. I don't know. For For the people listening who are not focused on the calves, just a couple, couple of pedestrian stats for the people listening who are not focused on the Cavs, just a couple couple pedestrian stats for you. Garland is nineteen a game, seven f's assists a game. He's taken seven threes a game and he's shooting almost thirty nine percent. And the I test backs it up because one of the reasons I like them, I like the shots they get at the end of games. Same same thing for Chicago. I think they get good shots and they can also get stops on the other end, which is why I think they have to be taken seriously. Jared Allen is basically seventeen and eleven this year. Yeah. He is. And they gave him that contract. I didn't like it. They gave him hundred million for five and it was, like, that's way higher than what the center market is. But it turned out to be good. And and, Bill, that's what you have to do if you're Cleveland. See, all those mid mid market teams, whenever you talk to the owners of the GMs, They tell you the same thing. We have to overpay or they don't stay. Right. And Jared Allen was young enough that you didn't. I liked that signing. Well, easy for me to say now, but I did I liked him. I liked him period. I just thought young energetic 76ers like a really good team guy all. The Nets players are really sad that he left because, you know, he was just starting something. And it's interesting they felt the same way about Carriage Lavera, but it's so hard to Hawks' had so many bizarre things happen to him. It's kinda hard to say now. I don't think I I don't think he'd be fun to play with either. It's funny. I talked before the season, Zac and I were on the phone. We're trying to plan, like, what we're gonna do for whatever and just catching up because he'd just gone back from his vacation. And we're kinda talking about a couple teams that we may or may not Luka. And I was like, I really like this Cavs team. I don't I don't know what it is. I just I like the players. I don't know if it'll make sense they Cavs, like, eight guys that really Luka. And he and Zach said the same thing. He's oh my god. I feel the same way. way. And I was looking at their was Luka, their over under was Luka seven. For for wins. Oh, okay. So Yeah. When we did the over 76ers, Cleveland was one of the ones Rizzillo and House and I. We were all kinda yeah, there's this seems like they have more talent than a thirty one team was not expecting them to be fighting for the four seat. seat. I gotta say, I'm not shocked that Miami has had some injuries stuff already, because I think that was the concern, looking at the over-under for them, which I think was like 49, just Larry's old, you know that the Butler band, I don't say I'm not shocked that Miami's had some injury stuff already because I think that was the concern. Looking at the over under for them, which I think was, like, forty nine. Just Larry's old, you know, the the butler bam. III don't know. I just I felt like they would just try to get their team ready for the playoffs. Obviously, that anticipated the bam injury, but I think I think out of that, those five and then you have whatever's gonna have in Philly Philly. If and bead stays healthy, they have to be in at least the top eight or Embiid stays healthy, they have to be in at least the top eight or nine. I think Boston wound up being there. But so how do we make sense of Atlanta? What should take on the It's the they're they're just abandoned the defense. It's such a shame. I was looking at the numbers. They, you know, Clint Capella who I thought was great pickup for them and had a good year for them last year. Teams are shooting Luka seventy percent at the rim when he's in the game -- Mhmm. -- makes no sense. I mean, their interior defense is non Crichton. And I thought, you know, Nate got through to Trey a little bit last year on the way to this run to the eastern conference finals at, like, look, we know you we could score. You. We know all those things, but you have to know all those things, but you have to defend. If you don't, this team can't go anywhere. And if you defend everybody else well, because everyone's like, well, how come he doesn't have to defend? You know? And so they've gotten away from it, Trey included, and it's killing them. It's killing them. them. It's too It's too bad. And and, you know, you always wonder And now I'm gonna go in the way, way, way back machine. But remember when the Hawks pushed the Celtics in that great series of Dominique and Larry. Oh, yeah. Right? And we're all like, oh, they're gonna be great the next year. year. They weren't because they're like, oh, we're hot They weren't because they're like, oh, we're hot shit. Well, you know what? Not unless you keep trying and playing the way you were playing last year when you took the Celtics to seven games. games. So I wonder if that's the case a little bit with the So I wonder if that's the case a little bit with the Hawks'. Hawks. I'm, I'm I'm disappointed. They're disappointing to me. me. You know, I love You know, it's I love them. them. And I, you know, I think they probably gonna move one of those guys, like, I'm sure cam I, you know, I think they're probably gonna move one of those guys. Like, I'm sure Kamredish. reddish. I bet they'll move I bet they'll move him. You know, but some of those other guys just you want more. I mean, the Capella numbers are alarming. Alarm Yeah. It makes you wonder why why Daryl was so excited to trade him two years ago. Out of nowhere. Right? We need to have a center. Yeah. You mentioned one there's two theories with them that are usually bad things for NBA teams. One, you just mentioned the hot shit theory. We have this run. You go into next season, like, oh, we're hot shit. We're there. And it said, now, you actually this is a year after year thing. You gotta earn it. it. The other thing, they just have too many The other thing they just have too many guys. And I think sometimes this happens where, you know, you look at the minutes. It's Luka, camera is just playing twenty two and half minutes game. Is he happy? What are the people around him saying? They he wants to play thirty five. Right? I thought of it just playing twenty eight. Kurt 76ers playing twenty seven and a half. Guyana is at twenty two. Lou Williams is at thirteen. 13. All those guys probably feel like they should be out there in crunch those guys probably feel like they should be out there in crunch time. And I I think Yeah. That's interesting. interesting. I don't don't know who their I don't know who their best five is, and it's a team that seems like they're dying for a two for one or a three for one trade. Which I'm sure they've taken 76ers on Jalen Brown constantly because he's from there. Right. You know, that's not gonna happen. That's not happening. But could they Could that be a three for one theme with somebody possibly? Yeah. And remember, they started slow last year too. They came on at the end of the year, so maybe that happens again. I don't know. But I just think I think it's just a little disappointing for me because I think they were ready to make the next step. They have a great core of young talent. Guys that are winners, guys that really want to play that are they're there. Aren't afraid to mix it afraid to mix it up. And I know Trey isn't for everyone, but, you know, he could be on my team any day wants to be. FeelGood at the stats, the stats compared to the I test, the stats actually seem okay. If they're making almost thirteen threes a game, the thirty eight percent from three. Trey is -- Yes. -- twenty seven and nine every night. Collins is seventeen and eight. It's so The offense. Right. Not the offense. It's a defense. Right. When you watch them, it's a team that doesn't seem to be totally happy. Transition defense. Yuck. Bad transition defense, you know. Just nope. So you're not buying the foul you're not buying the foul roll with trey. That's one of them at all. all. Say it again? The fat What's the the changes to the foul rules? People have blamed that for trade. No. But losing a superpower. Although, I will say harden, if you look at harden too, you know, he's kind of settled in back to being himself, but he he's not having success going to the rim anymore. Not the way he was. See, I don't think he settled back into being himself. I think he's -- He's getting there. -- I think he's there. It's getting there, but I don't there, but I don't think he's getting there. see, by the way, he did. Well, no. Like, that's what I just said. You know, but I mean, like, in terms of step back threes, those are starting to be automatic again. again. But going to the rim for him is not what it was But going to the rim for him, is not what it was before. before. He's not He's not neither one of those guys are gonna be shooting averaging, you know, fifteen free throws a game. That's just they want that out of the game and they're gonna succeed. It's just like when they started with the hand checking rules, they didn't want centers dominating the paint. They didn't want big men. They wanted to open the game up and that the year after they did that, Alan Iverson at five foot eleven was the MVP of the league. What the league wants? The league gets? That's just the way it rules. You know? It's a shame because I don't think the rant ever been better. I looked at the scenes. He's 76ers great. He's really good, but he's playing too many minutes. Yikes. Yikes. Yikes. Too many minutes. And I know he doesn't like that, but it's true. His MVP season, his stats are pretty nuts. And he was awesome that year, and he was an MVP of a year that LeBron James was at the peak of his powers and it was -- Mhmm. -- not even an argument. Katie was definitely the MVP that year. Obviously, two thousand seventeen. It's hard to imagine him being better than that. It's hard to imagine him being better than he was in the series, but watch it in this year especially on a Luka pretty mediocre 76ers team with no Kyrie and with hard and not really being hard in. And, I don't know, Patty Mills, no Joe Harris all year. Right. And fed some interest here. Katie, Just how he gets his points night after night. Who stops him? him? Who's like the Katie, who's the Katy Luka the KD who's the KD stopper? Who's the guy Luka, man. They're playing this guy. This guy usually has success against KD. That person doesn't exist and has never existed in the history of basketball. There's no even, like, member bird in the late eighties where it was, like, when rodman started to become rodman and and you're watching going, oh, shit. This is kinda the guy you would create in the lab to beat bird. But remember, the the problem with those is, like, they say, oh, maybe Robert Reed is, you're Luka, oh, stop it. You know, sometimes it's the worst thing on this word it's for someone to say you're the Katie Stobber because he'll destroy you. That's what all the great players did. There's do. never been one at any point ever. I mean, Well, who is the best defender of Michael Jordan? Who who is the guy that defended Michael Jordan the best? This is right in your wheelhouse. I wheelhouse. I mean, it was probably the pistons collectively and their ability to throw, do Mars and Rodman on them of as a it was probably the the Pistons collectively and their ability to throw Dumars and Rodman on them kind of as a combo. Yeah. And then and then just punish him anytime he went into the basket, but he solved it eventually. But how about a young Reggie Lewis, so blocked him three times in one game? You're You're Rejji went the best at him at anybody. Yeah. That was the wheelhouse. Man, I can't believe you didn't get that. You're thinking No. I was thinking about, yeah, playoffs, but you're right. Reggie would go at him. And he also would go at Reggie Miller too because I Yeah. Yeah. I think he had, like, a little burnous saddle for both of those guys. But, yeah, with the Durant thing, I guess, Johannes technically would be the guy, but he's torched he's torched a box over and over again. There's a really again. That's you can't ask you, can't ask Yonis to go out now to the three point line and that's just too much to can't ask you can't ask Johannes to go out, no, to the three point line and that's just too much to ask. Although, Johannes quits himself pretty well those situations, but it's it's just so when he's healthy, as when he's healthy, he's he's always been a unicorn. We we knew that. And and he's, you know, he's unselfish too for even though when he puts up big numbers, He wants to make the right basketball play. That's always been true about him, I think. Yeah. I agree. There's more Tim McCarrie. Right? Aren't they the two right now? The front runners? Their former teammates, Curry and Durant? Who else? I think there's four guys who are just playing spectacularly right now. Yolked and Josh has to be in there and you Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Yep. I actually think yay. Yokich, if you actually look at his numbers and you watch that team and you see who is playing with, and he's just throwing up twenty seven thirteen. It's unbelievable. Yeah. So he's gotta be in that conversation. conversation. I think you could make a think you could make a case case. This will be the best first team, all NBA we've had in a while in terms of guys like really good historically great guys at the great powers where we have four guys and Lucas should have been the fifth, but decided to, you know, take a bog in this season, which we'll give to them that second, first state, that second guard spot on first team, all NBA is kind of wide open right will be the best first team all NBA we've had in a while in terms of guys. Like, really good historically great guys at the great numbers where we have four guys, and Luka should Cavs been the fifth, but decided to, you know, take a ball in the season, which will get to him. That second first state that second guard bottom, first team on BA is kinda wide open right now now. Cause Dame's kind of abdicated it hardens, abdicated it, Luke, James kinda abdicated it. Harden's abdicated it. Luca I don't count count it. Don't count Demont yet. Doncic Teema yet. We got the time left. Yeah. Not ready to do that yet. What team is it gonna be at? I don't know. We'll see. I just think a a trait can make all the difference or a trait that they make to Cavs someone join him. him. The problem they have is their, their most reasonable trade asset has a collapsed problem they have is their their most reasonable trade asset has a collapsed lung. Right? C. J. McCollum. So that's problem. What about Bradley Beale? For your first team on NBA. Is he in that level? He's had kind of a crappy year. year. He just set himself the other He just set himself the other day. I would not have him on that level. And I don't I don't think he's played that great really all season. And now that No. The 76ers team is kinda cratered. Well, they're regressing to their means. Yeah. It's that it's of five hundred team. I'm trying to think who else? I I mean Booker would have been there, but he got hurt too. I thought Booker was probably the odds of Yeah. Booker's and he might still be bad. I mean, he's not gonna I don't know how much time he's gonna miss. Hooker's a good choice because that team's good. Oh, and the and the ROSEN's the other one we should mention. If it. sure. But am I ready to put him first team team? All NBA NBA? I'm just saying it's wide open. Somebody somebody's gonna sneak in there if Luca and Hardin and Dame are not are gonna gonna keep that spot. You spot. You can get a little creative get a little creative too if Tatum keeps going the way he's going. Maybe he could have a run at one of the two teams. I mean, he's already at twenty six a game. And then Mitchell, I guess, is the other one we should mention because Utah Oh, Doncic. Yeah. That's how did we forget him? Oh, we shouldn't have. That was that that 76ers. See, that's where the Utah is. Oh, see this is you. I know. Take care of it. And you know what? We would deserve it on that case. Maya Copa to all the Utah jazz fans who, by the way, they're phenomenal too. They look great. Gobert's been unbelievable. They're good. They're really good. They have, I think, the best the second best point to Frenchman now. They're nineteen and seven. seven. I don't do something about because something about them still leaves me a little cold and I can't put my finger on it. it. I just, I don't trust I don't trust them. And maybe it was just because I went to those Cooper playoff games, but it's it's almost like they have to prove a footing. They're scoring. Aren't they way and above above everybody scoring? I think Luka offense numbers are way, like, points. I don't have it in front of me. Yeah. They're a hundred and fifteen plus a game. I mean, that's a lot. And then a lot And it Guess how many times a game they're making? Sixteen. That's a lot. That's crazy. But maybe that's why you're worried though because you gotta do more than that, and they can. I believe they can. This might be their year. This might be their year. year. Well, it would have to be the Mitchell becoming a real top seven have to be the Mitchell becoming a real top seven I think he's top. He's close. I think he's really close. And he's got the right mindset for it and the great work ethic. don't know. He's got a good personality for it. I think he's got all the tools. We'll see if he gets there. One more break and then I wanna talk about Anthony Davis. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter. 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O N N I that is dot com with promo code simmons. Simmons. All So Anthony Davis, we talked about Luca disappointing. He's not a hundred percent in shape. shape. We talked about Zion We talked about Zion disappointing disappointing. It seems like injuries and some off the court stuff might derail a potentially great seems like injuries and some off the court stuff might derail a potentially great career. What do we make at Davis at this point? Like, Barclay went at him really hard last week and you know, by by the old guys on the TV show going after the new guys, I get it. and they've been tough at times, but I also feel like they're I thought he hit on some genuine stuff there. It's Luka, why? This guy's supposed to be one of the seven best guys in the league. This guy that gave up all these draft picks for? Why isn't he carrying them? Why does he have to have, like, the perfect supporting cast? cast? Why isn't LeBron and Davis Why isn't LeBron and Davis enough? And it's a pretty good question. I haven't loved what I've seen from Davis's and year. And people are going to point to the stats, but stats are kind of are gonna point to the stats. But whoa. Stats are kinda right. But I I don't like the eighteen footers. I don't think he's moving as well as he used to, and I I liked when he looked more like, you know, young Garnet, young young young k g when he was just, you know, his skinnier is moving around. Now he looks like a center to me, and I don't feel like he's special to watch. What do you think? Well, I just always have thought the same thing about Anthony Davis. It's you can't expect everybody to be a one. He's not a one. He'll never be a one in my mind. Because you know why there's only a handful of a ones. I mean, LeBron's A1I don't care how old he is. I don't care if Anthony Davis is better than him. LeBron's a one. That's just how it works. And Anthony Davis's motor to me has always been just You know, okay. But very skilled player who by the way, the 76ers, it's been proven again and again, are better off when he is playing center. That's just the truth of it. And but your your your point on the eighteenth footers is the one I would harp on. Like, that kid can dominate. But it's almost like it doesn't occur to him or something. something. And does that make him a bad does that make him a bad guy? It does not. But again, I'll repeat. It doesn't make him a Kevin Durant or I honest. Yonis. It's just, it's not in his It's just it's not in his makeup. makeup. You can't teach that you can't teach that killer You can't teach that. You can't teach that killer instinct. It's It's only the very very few habit. Only a handful of players in each generation have it. habit. It's a gift and it's just, he doesn't have a gift. And it's just he doesn't have it. And that doesn't mean he's not a good player or that he's not a hall of famer. He's already won a championship. championship. It just means that your expectations, I think, have to be tempered based on that It just means that your expectations, I think, have to be tempered based on that knowledge. That's how I feel about it. it. is gonna be a weird tangent for him, but Game three of the finals in two thousand twenty, the bubble. Mhmm. So first two games, He puts up thirty four and nine, thirty two and fourteen. He's twenty six for forty one in the series through two games. And everybody is doing the oh my god. Here it is. It's happening. This is Shaq in two thousand. This is Dunkin' in two thousand three. This is he is becoming an all time guy. And then the next day, game three, they lose to Miami by eleven, fifteen points, five rebounds. And then he was okay the rest of the series, but it felt like there was this one moment and moment. And then it kind of went away and we've never gotten it kinda went away and we've never gotten back. But there was this one moment between two and three where it was, like, this this is happening. This is happening. This is Corim, this is Shaq, this is Will, this is the next guy. And I don't get my next guy vibes from him anymore. anymore. And I don't know whether, I don't don't know whether I don't know. I don't know what's going on, but it doesn't seem like he's getting don't know what's going on, but it doesn't seem like he's getting better. It's weird. He's he looks like he's thirty two, thirty three years old. 76ers twenty eight. Okay. Wow. I would have guessed guessed. He was he was older. Yeah. Right. He looks like he's thirty two. Right? Luka thirty two, thirty three. Is that? 76ers twenty eight. Well, big guys always age. Even when they don't age, they always look older. That's always been my theory. But I I just think that he I think he's got I think he has at times where he can get himself laddered up, but I don't think it comes naturally to him. And, you know, you've played sports. All of us Cavs, you know which people we you know who they are. You can identify them within five seconds in a gym, you know. Magic Johnson loses a pickup game and and them play again because he said you you filed me on that last basket that you hit the game and everyone's like, no one touched you. No. We're playing it over. Like, It's just they can't stand to lose. Yeah. That's LeBron. Ron. You know You know? Yeah. That I think that don't know if that's honest. It feels like it is. I is. I just don't think that's Anthony don't think that's Anthony Davis. And I I mean, does that make him a bad player? It doesn't. It just doesn't make him an all time great. I regret putting him in the top seventy five. 75. I think I didn't I didn't receive by his residency bias with him in projection. And you realize that some of these guys never know. Yeah. You didn't put him in. I don't think Bob Bryant had him either. either. But at the expense of some of the people I left off Luka Gassal, who See, I had Gassal. Gassal was a slow burn. Right? It's Luka the end of the Memphis run, you're thinking, oh, this is what a disappointing career. This has chance to just be kind of a bummer that it didn't work out better. They goes to 76ers, reinvents himself, meets Kobe at the right time. But Yeah. I think the Seemed like the plan was always, LeBron passes the torch to Davis, and then Davis keeps carrying the Lakers. I don't think he can carry the Lakers without LeBron. Do you? No. No, I do do not. I do not. not. So No. -- there's no way they would trade him. Right? No. Okay. No. So what do you do for them? Because your only trade piece is Westbrook because you backed yourself into a trade asset corner where Now they're trying to float out, though. A lot of teams are interested in Taylor Horton Tucker. It's like, really? Are they? Yeah. Well, Well, I mean, again, they might be interested in them, but they're not interested in for the stuff that's going to make you a champion mean, again, they might be interested in them, but they're not interested in for this stuff that's gonna make you a champion overnight. overnight. You know, he's one of your younger guys, you should be trying to move one to the older You know? He's one of your younger guys. You should be trying to move one of the older guys. You know, Westbrook that, you know, I read I read somewhere that, oh, the Lakers and the Sixers. I'm like, there is no way Daryl Morey is taking on Russell Westbrook. He's already seen that movie in Houston. That didn't happen in people. That has not happened. I don't I don't know what the suitor is for him, but I'm pretty sure it does make sense. As John Wall. And, like, we're not gonna do that again. You know? There's two guys. There's AII I'm not please the aggregators don't get carried away with this, but the only team that kind of makes sense is the 76ers. It where they could they Cavs the salaries to throw together, and I don't even think it makes sense. But I went there last night. It's it's a team that has without Paul George, you're just I went last night to watch and play and it's like, oh, cool. cool. It's Reggie Jackson and Terrence man, Marcus Morris, all these It's Reggie Hawks'. And Terrence, like, he's struggling. Marcus Morris, all these guys, and it's, like, it's barely it. Yeah. Barely it's anything. Struggling. struggling. He's he's not, you know, he hasn't followed up, which is too not, you know, he hasn't followed up, which is too bad. I mean, again, it's early. I mean, it's only December. But they they're they're even when Kawhi comes back, I just think their 76ers a bit problematic. When do When do you think Hawaii comes think Kawhi comes back? Do you think we see him this year? year? do. I do. Real, and I don't I do. I would bet no. If FanDuel had the odds, And it was, like, no minus one third. I bet I bet the no. You say no at all? No. I think he's too careful about his body. I don't see him push him back. By the way, they're gonna be a nine seat, ten seat? Yeah. But I think because he's so careful with his body, he probably progresses at a better rate than the average player recovering from injury. Because he knows his body so well, because he's tuned into his body, because he he has no problem using his own people if that's what's required to get him to where he wants to be. Yeah. So Yeah. I might be wrong. I just my gut was that he'll be that we'll see him. What's nuts about the west is you have the Clippers who had no quiet year and they've lost Paul George down for couple games. games. They're still 16 and still sixteen and twelve, but still a five seat. seat. If the Lakers who have had the most disappointing year of probably anyone in the league, there are six the Lakers who have had the most disappointing year, probably anyone in the league, they're six feet. You have the nuggets. How about the nuggets? Yeah. Where do they? Do you have Dallas and Denver who I would say, wow, could that year have gone worse for either team though? Right. They're the seven and eight 76ers. Yeah. I mean, the nuggets, the way their treading water is unbelievable to me with everything that's gone on with them. And then you have Portland who's had the year from hell, Brian Tenseed. They're in the playing game right now. They that team sucks. So they got troubles. They had to do something. I think they have to do something. I don't know what they do, but they gotta do something. What what's their they they gotta do something power rankings right now. So I would have Portland one, one. I think I Indiana's is think I Indiana's too. See, I would have Indiana one because We really You you well, because you don't You don't forecast almost every good player on your roster. I mean, LaVere you've heard LaVere Turner, Turner. So bonus and TJ Warren have all been, it's been forecasted that they're all and T. J. Warren Cavs all been it's been forecasted that they're all available. Crichton the only reason Brockton isn't available is because he technically can't be because he signed his extension so he's not eligible. Otherwise, he'd be available too. they're clearly hitting the reset button at what level we can discuss. discuss. So to me, they've they have to do So to me, they'd they have to do something. They will do something. I don't know if Portland can do anything. Luka, the patients have enough interesting pieces that something can happen. Like, I think for the right team, T. J. Warren could be a very nice pick and, of course, he's been injured too. too. He's had some health issues, but I, you know, I think had some health issues. But I you know, I But as you know, those feet scare me. The T. J. Warren said multiple feet things. Who who'd you have in the third pick? Philly's off the table. That we know they have trade simmons. But alright. So you have Indiana one. I have I have Portland one. Portland two. Portland two. two. I have Indiana have Indiana two. two. So who's who's three? three. Is it it Atlanta? Are they at the they have to do something stage? stage. I I don't think that they're they're at the have to do something stage. I think they're at the we wanna do something stage. And again, I think they have enough pieces that will interest other teams. They have assets that people would be interested in that are worth more to other teams than perhaps they are to their own team. I team. have our number three then. It's Sacramento. Sacramento. They have to do have to do something. What do you do with that? I don't know. Come on. We've been saying that for how long. I feel like we've been saying that for five 76ers, they have to do something. something. They never never do. do. gotta be this year. I'm going with Atlanta. I'm going with Atlanta. Before we go, I came up with an idea for every Jackie parents. Oh, okay. Story time with Jackie. You have to tell some story about when you're recovering. So I'm just gonna throw I'm gonna throw a lot of ass. No. No. It's it's gonna be even more confusing for you because -- Oh. -- you're gonna make me oh, okay. I'm just gonna trigger you your karaoke machine with some sort of event from the past and you have to tell your best story about that event Pacers or whatever. Okay. Here's what we have for for this podcast. Nineteen ninety two Dream Team. Your best story. Okay. Okay. Well you're this is, you're not going to love this because in 1992, I was the mother of a newborn this is you're not gonna love this because in nineteen ninety two, I was the mother of a newborn child. I did not go to Barcelona. Barcelona. Oh my no, no, man. Alright. So that's with no. No. No. It's a story. Okay. Got the one you want, baby. Okay. So Dave Gammett was in charge of the dream team. Right? So Dave Gammett got restless soul who I loved but had to write a very difficult column about when I was at the globe, which fractioned our relationship for many years. He knew I, you know, really wanted to go, but couldn't go. I was on maternity leave. I had this baby. baby. So he got this dream team book and he had everybody on the dream So he got this dream team book and he had everybody on the dream team sign it to my daughter. Okay? Okay. Now Larry spelled my daughter's name wrong Alison, but that's Larry spelled my daughter's name wrong, but that's okay. So every player except for one signed it. And and it was Scottie Pippen, and it wasn't that he said, no, I refused to sign it. Dave just never caught up to him. So I've been carrying around this book for the last, my 76ers almost thirty, thirty 76ers. Trying to be and I'm I've seen Scottie hundred times, but I never had the book with me. So Scottie Pippen is the only one who didn't have to sign it. So I watched the dream team I didn't go to Barcelona. Barcelona. I feel like I know every story cause I've written about it 8,000 times, but I wasn't there for any of I feel like I know every story because I've written about it eight thousand times, but I wasn't there for any of it. How about that? Wow. And you you probably would Cavs gotten more stuff at a better dream team experience than any other reporter, I think, other than maybe Macau It would have been you guys accepted the finals. I was trying to grab stuff. Yeah. MacMullan was good. And, you know, know? Cause I loved I loved Ewing. I knew all those guys really well, Malone, Jordan, all those guys. And it was, you know, people were Luka, you didn't cover the dreamt. I'm like, hey, I had a child. Let's put world in perspective, please. Okay? I had my daughter. She she was worth it. it. So the big winner other than your daughter was big winner other than your daughter was McCallum. Oh, MacMullan? the great book. That book was great. It really was Great. -- counseling. Oh, Jackie, I'm so sorry you can't come. don't think he was even aware of me at that time of my life. Bob Ryan went So he got to go. You know, because I was covering the NBA then, but so he went. He went. No. I wouldn't say in my Pacers. They probably would Cavs sent both of us. But he had a blast. You know? Yeah. But you had you had Barclay and Ewing, like, that those were, like, real relationships. You could Cavs gotten some good work from those guys. I just got it after they came home. That's all. Alright. I'll play one more. Okay. French lick, Indiana, your best story. Oh, wow. I have to think about that. Okay. This is a pretty good story. So I went out to do a book with Larry. I forget which one. And we were in French Lake because I'd never been there or I'd been there once before but not with him and he was there. And so we're going through all the jugal Spark, all the, you know, hot spots or whatever. And at at some point, I said something about it must have been the second book because I said something about that movie with Dustin Hoffman about the Pelicans. And they were saying that the going to the moon was fake. It didn't really happen. Do you know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the name of the president. One, you mean? No. No. No. No. Oh, shoot. Oh, the president's been? men. No. No. It'll come to me. Anyway, whatever this movie was, I happen to say, yeah, I was I'm gonna see that movie at some point. Leer that night, I stayed so it's a great thing about Larry is when I already worked with him. He he'd have me stay at his house. So he comes out with this thing from behind the back and he had the move we move. We had the movie on like the DVD, but it was only in the movie on, like, the DVD, but it was only in theaters. What was the name of the movie? I'm ruining the whole story. Someone help me out, Kyle. It was Dustin Hoffman. Yeah. Oh, Hawks'. Wag the dog. Wag the dog. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. And he pulled it out. He had it. And so we watched WAG the dog. I was Wait a second. So he he just was able to gather DVD of the movie because he wanted to see it. Well, I think he probably no. He probably already had it because, like, Larry Bird couldn't go to the movie theater because everyone would, like, cost him So he probably had some agreement where he got all the first run movies, like in his home ahead of time. Oh my god. WAG I watch WAG the dog. It's my favorite story. story. legend Unbelievable. Alright. Jackie, great to see. He was always happy holidays. Same to you, guys. I hope this evening turn it around. I hope we get some trades And next We're gonna get some there'll be trades. There'll be NBA trades. I mean, I think as of tomorrow, eighty six percent of the league is available via trade. You know, Malcolm, broadband tomorrow is the exception, not the rule. So somebody's gonna get traded. Alright. I just don't think it's gonna be Red Bull West Brookville. I I don't think so so either. Sorry, Laker fans. Alright, Jackie. to see you. Alright. That's it for the podcast. Hawks' to Jackie. Thanks to producer, Kyle We'll be back on Thursday on this feed with One more pot, million dollar picks and a lot more. Don't forget about juice water density bass, eight PM, HBO, Thursday night and you can get it on HB0. Max as well, putting your calendar down. See you on Thursday.