0:01

I'm Derek Thompson, longtime writer with the Atlantic magazine on tech culture and politics.

0:05

There is a lot of noise out there.

0:08

And my goal is to cut through the headlines loud tweets and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English.

0:15

I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways.

0:20

Plain English starts November 16th.

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Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The bill Simmons podcast is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook.

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When you get a chance, speaking of podcasts, just a heads up Jackie McMullan.

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And I talked about Joel and being on my podcast on Tuesday, she had a quick impression of Joelle.

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She was sharing a personal anecdote and we realized afterwards it could be taken the wrong way.

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So it was a little too late.

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And we apologize about that.

3:17

One more note on ringer podcasts, if you're not less than a plain English with Derek Thompson, one of the smartest podcasts, not only that we have, but just on the internet, he's done a great job.

3:27

I'm really proud of that podcast. The first I think we're, we're basically done with the first month, but really smart topics.

3:34

It's not too long focused conversations and each time I learned something.

3:39

So check that one out. If you have a chance to play in English with Derek Thompson, one more thing to check out HBO tonight, APM the juice world, doc juice world into the abyss directed by Tommy Obert is available on HBO max to stream as well as the sixth and final film of our music box series, which just got renewed for season two.

3:58

So we are flattered and grateful about that.

4:02

Very excited to get going in the second season, tell some more stories.

4:05

It's always the hardest to do the first season with any of these, especially convincing filmmakers to come and teach in the audience.

4:13

Basically what it is. And this juice doc was the toughest one we had to do.

4:18

It came together pretty late summer, 2020.

4:20

It's a story that I'd become fascinated by because my son loved juice world and we would drive around out and listened to the lyrics and they were really complicated.

4:30

A lot of the songs were really dark and my son's like 11 and 12 years old, this and this.

4:36

And sometimes I even wondered if he really knew what the songs were about, but the there's a vibe and a beat and a style that you said that was just so distinct, but the lyrics are kind of the key to everything.

4:49

And you know, that's a lot of what this documentary is about.

4:52

Even though juice, wasn't able to sit down for an interview, obviously he's narrating his story in real time through this footage, which is incredible.

5:01

And that was what we had to crack with this.

5:03

We didn't have a ton of time to make a film.

5:06

And yet what Tommy Albert did was just, just unbelievable harnessing like 10,000 hours of footage and trying to figure out how to structure it.

5:14

And there were a lot of cuts of this and I, and, you know, obviously are from the ringer film side, we're involved giving notes on stuff and this one just, it hit me in a different way.

5:25

And you know, I really do think that juice was a genius.

5:29

And I think that comes out in the film and I don't think he's necessarily considered that way, which is one of the reasons we wanted to do it.

5:38

And I remember asking Tommy at one point, why isn't, why isn't he thought of like Kurt Cobain or some of these other people that we have?

5:48

Why, why would you use, is it always defaults to like the drugs and how it ended?

5:52

Things like that? Why don't people look at this incredible stuff that this, this artist did from age 17 to two when he died and Tommy made the point like, Hey, they haven't seen this film yet.

6:05

So those were the stakes for us. We felt like this was an important story.

6:09

And

6:09

as

6:09

one

6:09

of

6:09

the

6:09

people

6:09

interviewed

6:09

in

6:09

the,

6:09

in

6:09

the

6:09

film

6:09

says

6:09

for

6:09

whatever

6:09

reason,

6:09

jeez

6:09

became

6:09

a

6:09

therapist

6:09

for

6:09

millions

6:09

of

6:09

young

6:19

kids. And you know, there, there's a big picture thing that we could have gotten into if this was a four hour doc about just this generation of rappers and hip hop artists and how self-aware and self-conscious their songs were compared to like what, what I grew up with in the late eighties, early nineties, and what people wrote songs about back then and what they sang about.

6:41

And would you say, I think if you think about his story through the prism of mental health over, you know, the easy way to think about it as like, oh, this is a drug story.

6:49

It's not, it's a mental health story. And it's somebody that was really in a lot of pain and express that through his songs and express that through how he performed day after day for the people around him, because he kind of couldn't figure out what else, how else to channel it.

7:07

You know? And I think it's really heartbreaking to watch.

7:09

And especially if you've had anybody in your life, who's dealt with this stuff, you know, the manifestation of how you deal with it can go badly in all these different ways, right?

7:18

It could be drugs, it could be alcohol, alcohol, it could be self harm, whatever it is.

7:22

But I think there's so much more awareness these days of, of people knowing that they're not okay.

7:29

And maybe being a little more thoughtful about asking for help telling somebody they're not doing well, reaching out to somebody in their life.

7:40

That's something like my generation didn't do.

7:43

We weren't in the nineties. If you felt like you're in a dark spot or, you know, you're in a bad place, whatever you kind of bottled it up, you didn't want anyone to know.

7:53

It was like a sign of weakness, a lot of the time.

7:55

And you know, that's changed obviously in Jesus' case, you know, he's going through so much and you really feel it in the dock and he doesn't really know how to help himself other than through the songs.

8:07

So I think that's one of the many reasons why, why this one stuck with me, unlike the usual typical music film we're going to do, it's really intense.

8:18

So check it out, juice world into the abyss, directed by Tommy Oliver going up tonight.

8:24

And that's it for season one, anxious to start on season two, coming on this podcast, we're gonna talk about the NFL's COVID crisis with Peter Schrager and how that's going to affect these games.

8:36

We're rushing the picks up just because we know that chiefs chargers, we actually know who's playing in that one.

8:41

So, I mean, it's trivial compared to everything else, but from a gambling standpoint, almost impossible to guess what's going to happen in some of these games when you're not positive is playing.

8:49

So we cover all that. And then Ben Affleck comes on.

8:52

Haven't talked to Ben in five years since he came my HBO show.

8:55

And we actually talk about that in the interview.

8:57

We do, but, but he's always fun to talk to.

9:01

I think he's a fascinating guy and really smart and really self-aware and not afraid to not afraid to get into topics.

9:11

You know? So in a lot of ways, it's the perfect podcast guest, but that was really fun.

9:16

So this is an action packed podcast.

9:18

I can only do one thing right now.

9:21

We gotta to bring in project All right, Peter Schrager's here.

9:43

We're taping this early Thursday.

9:46

It's noon right now, PT, because we wanted to get the chiefs chargers game into this.

9:51

And the reason is because the COVID, stuff's just gone bonkers and basketball and football, and two big dark picks on a Thursday that knowing who's playing and not knowing who's going to get scratched, it seems like Thursday's the only game I feel great about what is the league in a complete panic right now?

10:10

What's going on? No, I mean, they're, they're hell bent on getting these games in, but I'll tell you, some of the teams are in a complete panic and you look at what's happening with Washington and with Los Angeles and with Cleveland who has to play on Saturday and now Chicago, if you saw it as we're going to recording this, they don't have a head coach, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, or special teams, coach, or no, the head coach actually nag is fine, but like, I don't know the Rams.

10:31

I don't know if the Rams could feel the team right now, but the NFL says we're playing these games.

10:35

And the unfortunate thing about it is that if this was like week three or week four, you could say, well, there's some wiggle room.

10:40

Can't really reschedule these games.

10:42

Like we're here, it's the end of the season. And the playoffs are not changing.

10:45

So I don't know, man, this is something else.

10:49

Yeah. My thought was that we would just go big on cheap chargers and then sprinkle some on the rest.

10:54

But I don't want to actually put big money in any of this game.

10:57

Sunday, buddy. I don't know who's going to play it. What if we, what if we take the paths and all of a sudden they lose their entire secondary on Friday.

11:03

And it's just such weird times.

11:05

And you know, I, the way most of these, everybody just about, I would say is vaccinated probably in the league or at least most of them.

11:13

So it's not, it doesn't feel like anything's like life-threatening here, but at the same time, nobody understands.

11:18

Here's the, how fast can you spread it?

11:20

You know, what is this? The flu is that where students, They

11:24

all had a league meeting, all the owners, all the presidents and all the health officials in Irving, Texas this week.

11:29

And a lot of people were like, all right, we understand that like you're being safe here.

11:34

But if you're testing every single day and these guys are asymptomatic and they're vaccinated and they don't feel sick, like, can we change these rules?

11:43

And I think the NFL would love to, and they might, the NFL players association, the union is hell bent on.

11:51

As of now, let's stay with the daily testing and let's do what's best for these players.

11:57

And it's the, it's a collectively bargained policy.

12:00

So it's not as easy as that.

12:02

I I'm going to be really interested to see how it plays out because these rules might change.

12:05

We need the union and need the players to buy in Crazy

12:09

times. And we're heading toward the playoffs.

12:12

That's the other piece of this and who knows how that's I wonder like, would they actually postpone again?

12:19

Hmm. What would need to happen?

12:20

Like, let's say one of these teams, the Browns Washington, one of these teams passes the point of no return and they can't feel the football team.

12:27

They have the two week window between the championship games and the super bowl.

12:31

So would they consider nudging everything back a week?

12:36

I don't know. I think they're going to have to start thinking that way.

12:38

Can it happen To look at everything? And the players union has to cooperate with it.

12:42

I'll say that there was some heated discussions this week at the league meetings.

12:46

And I know there were a lot of representatives from teams saying, Hey, we need to change these.

12:50

This is not the life or death thing. We have vaccines.

12:52

And as, as callous as it sounds like we've played 15 weeks.

12:58

Let's not throw the season away because of, you know, some rules that we think might need changing, but who knows the NFL's being, you know, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

13:05

But

13:05

gosh,

13:05

you

13:05

look

13:05

at

13:05

a

13:05

team

13:05

like

13:05

tonight,

13:05

the

13:05

charters

13:05

don't

13:05

have

13:05

Rashawn

13:12

Slater. There he's the best left tackle in football.

13:13

The last few weeks, he's their best player on their offensive line this season.

13:17

And now you got Frank Clark and whoever else, because it is, he can't play.

13:21

And Sean Slater most likely feels fine, Right?

13:25

We're time shakes that.

13:29

Not as weird for us because we, we just, every week we have bad luck and we lose games.

13:34

We had tough beats on the Browns and all that stuff.

13:37

I see. But as I'm looking ahead at week 15, it's hard not to see the shadow of the one and only urban Meyer over one of the games where the Jaguars are five foot favorites against the Texans.

13:50

The line moved after he got fired, because people are like, oh, they're going to try empty your urban Meyer notebook.

13:56

What are like the three craziest things you heard about this this week?

14:01

It was coming to a head and Tom Pelissero from the NFL network did a really fine job, chronicling it with that article on Saturday.

14:07

And I think one of the things that stood out most to a lot of people said, no one from Jacksonville at all was like, now wait a second.

14:14

That's not true. Like not one person came out and it was like, no, he didn't get into a fiery argument with Marvin Jones or no, he didn't bench James Robinson and Trevor Lawrence begged him to come back.

14:24

And there was no one coming to a side.

14:26

So I could tell you that shod Conn, the owner did a bit of a fact-finding mission this week was speaking to a lot of people within the building.

14:32

And then once you got that Josh Lambo story on the record, and no one came out and was outraged by that story, I think it expedited.

14:41

But the story that, what I heard as of Wednesday was like, they got the Texans this week.

14:45

They got the jets next week. Let's give it those two weeks and let's reassess.

14:49

And then once the Lambo came out, I think it really expedited things.

14:54

But at the league meetings, I could tell you that it was a hot topic of conversation.

14:58

And I feel like shod Conn sorta saw the writing on the wall and said, let's rip the band-aid off bill.

15:04

It's the first time we've ever in the history of the NFL, seen a first-year coach fired before the end of the season.

15:11

We've seen Patrina leave. We've seen coaches get fired after one year, never through this, just through 13 games.

15:18

It's pretty wild.

15:21

I think it might be the new go-to reference for me.

15:23

It was always Spurrier in that crazy Washington year he had, or he was like, I was working eight hours a day.

15:28

It's like, oh, good luck, good luck with that strategy and the NFL, but there's been some good ones.

15:33

Petrino you mentioned Saban lasted a couple of years.

15:36

This one went the worst. It all the signs were there all spring, all summer.

15:41

And

15:41

it

15:41

makes

15:41

you

15:41

wonder,

15:41

like,

15:41

why

15:41

would

15:41

teams

15:41

ever

15:41

do

15:41

this

15:46

again? Why are you going to hire the big paycheck college guy without having any idea, whether he's going to have the kind of work ethic or demeanor.

15:55

And some of these guys are just better off coaching kids in order and people around these are professional adults.

16:01

They don't work the same way.

16:03

Yeah. And I could tell you that even knowing they interviewed the enemy, they interviewed Salo, they interviewed Arthur Smith and then it didn't matter.

16:10

It didn't matter. They wanted urban so badly.

16:13

And it was urban who was waffling at the last second before they hired him.

16:17

Like it was urban who dragged us on an extra week.

16:19

And it was basically the Jaguar's brass was like, just take it over, like just lead us there.

16:24

But there was no precedent of urban Meyer coming into an NFL team and leading them there.

16:28

And my last point is, I don't know how this plays out because this is maybe next level stuff or sports business stuff.

16:34

And it applies to any company that fire somebody with such a, an epic fall, but urban is going to want to get paid that full contract.

16:42

And shotgun's not going to want to pay him that full contract.

16:45

So this could get really ugly as far as lawyers go, as far as what comes out publicly, because they might say he was fired for just cause and urban folks in urban might say, no, that's all conjecture.

16:57

You can't prove any of that stuff. So this isn't the end of this story.

17:00

And now the Jaguars had to start all over And

17:04

they could use the team plane thing against them.

17:05

You didn't fight back. That was negligence.

17:07

We have just caused, you had leadership things that you didn't stand up to.

17:12

I love this stuff.

17:13

You know, I was thinking I was on a thread with some of some ringer people about basketball and just talking about bad GM moves and how much fun the two thousands were for me as a writer, oh my God.

17:26

They had churches GM summit. And there was like just 10 terrible GMs doing the most insane things year after year.

17:33

And it was just so much fun, so much comedy.

17:36

And I think everybody gets smarter.

17:38

People are relying on analytics more.

17:40

So analytics might steer some teams away from stuff.

17:43

And you know, that people are very aware of social media and are we going to get for this?

17:49

So I think there's more caution and carefulness with big boobs.

17:55

This was an old school, terrible disaster of remove.

17:58

That seemed terrible as it was happening, especially cause it didn't even seem like he wanted to go there.

18:03

A franchise that has really had a checkered history under shod Conn to say the least.

18:08

And it worked out even worse than we ever thought it could have, which is really rare in professional sports in 2021 to have something happen, that's worse than your worst case scenario for it.

18:20

I think this actually surpassed the worst case scenario for how bad this went.

18:23

Not to mention Trevor Lawrence, who we have no idea what he is after 13 games.

18:29

Is he good? Is he not good? Like this guy was supposed to be the Shore's bets and say, Andrew luck now he's like, is he better than Mack Jones?

18:37

I don't know. I don't know how much all this affected him.

18:40

I think it was, it was the best possible opportunity for urban Meyer to go into.

18:43

And that there was a very low media profile.

18:46

You're going to a smaller market team.

18:48

There's not this pressure cooker in New York or in San Francisco or some of these other places you have the number one overall pick and everyone wants to see him succeed and there's room to grow.

18:56

And there was a ton of cap space and he could hire whoever he wanted.

19:00

And from what it sounds like a lot of those guys that he hired in the final days of urban Meyer, it sounds like they turned on him and no one was in his corner.

19:07

And at the end of the day, he was looking at the owner and the owner's like you're on an island here, pal because urban hired a lot of his own guys.

19:14

And I don't think many of his own guys came to his defense when it mattered most It's

19:18

so funny. The Khan family has done such a bad job with the Jaguars, the wrestling, the wrestling has been amazing.

19:24

Like they it's the first legitimate kind of smartly constructed challenge or the WWE is probably had in almost 30 years and all the time care thought they've put into that product.

19:37

And then on the football side, it's just been, you know, the wheels have been off really since what were they up 10 with Bortles yeah, Yeah.

19:45

And obviously the Myles Jack play and then Stephon Gilmore has one of the greatest past breakups in the history of playoff football diving, full body and deflecting that pass.

19:55

And the Patriot found a way.

19:58

Well, I hope I hope Trevor Lawrence is good.

20:02

Cause I feel like we need good quarterbacks.

20:03

I know Quarterbacks,

20:05

the name that I keep hearing already and it's early is like a Jim Caldwell type.

20:10

Like, all right, let's hire someone who at least is beloved by the players and bring stability and has been in the NFL.

20:16

Caldwell would be excellent in that role.

20:19

I just don't think they're going to go crazy big.

20:22

That's not the enemy. It could be, be enemy.

20:24

It could be, be enemy as well. And that's a first year coach though.

20:27

I think what they're looking for right now is stability.

20:29

Let's get this thing. Even in the short term, they get it back on track and put it back in place because it went so haywire so quickly too.

20:38

I mean, there were so many telltale signs, whether it be the hiring of the strength coach out of the gates where people are like that, the, the, the fact that he was surprised by free agency, some of the comments he made, that it wasn't as easy as recruiting.

20:49

And then I would say even the TiVo signing, which we all tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.

20:53

It was not a normal move to bring Teebo back and bring him in there because you've seen Tebow's leadership skills in the past.

21:00

There was a lot of strange red flags.

21:02

And if you put it all together and then you add in Tom Pelissero his report and then the Josh Lambo story, it was almost like, gosh, that was, that was, that was just really unfortunate.

21:11

How it all went down.

21:13

The sound house said nagging to be the first coach fired plus 700.

21:18

It's a tough beat. It really felt like we had it there that never wished for anyone to get fired.

21:22

But if it's something we can bet on, we're going to do it.

21:25

And you're betting on like more of the direction of what you think the team is on field.

21:30

Yeah. Yeah. On-field and it just seemed like the bears that was going to be the move.

21:34

Now it just seems like the bears are waiting till the end of the season and probably just cleaning house completely.

21:40

Yeah. And the one note on the Lambo article, which is a kicker saying he was kicked and whether it was true or not, whatever it is, but what I liked about this bill and you'll respect, this is that Lambo said he wasn't gonna say anything.

21:51

But the second that urban said, once I find out who the leaking sources, I'm going to fire that person, Lambo was like, screw that label played for them for five years.

22:01

He's like, that's not how this is going down. So like Josh Lambo is the whistleblower kicker who is no longer on the team Before

22:07

we get to million dollar pigs. Do we know who Kyle Brandt is doing a hype video for and a Sunday pregame show this week?

22:13

Cause I want to go the other way, Which fan base is, is, is looking to be hoodwinked and get third and have the thirsty Kyle brand experience.

22:19

I'm kidding. Kyle gave the bill fans, this passionate, this speech from the high school field.

22:24

And well, they almost pulled it off, but it wasn't enough bill.

22:29

Okay. I don't know. Kyle Brandt had, he gets back to the drawing board.

22:32

I dunno if these motivational speeches are working, we need a motivational speech.

22:38

Maybe, maybe Kyle can give us one, but We

22:41

lost 101 K last week.

22:42

We're still down six figures, but man, we're getting close to seven.

22:47

We are down $995,000.

22:49

Ironically two of the losses last week were last.

22:53

As you tried to talk me out of, I feel like we're fractured right now.

22:56

We're not on the same page. Well, one of them, you thought you tried to talk me out of the Browns minus two and a half against the Ravens, which was the right pick.

23:02

And I'll never understand how the brands didn't cover that game, whatever the Cardinals game against the Rams.

23:10

So I look at that game.

23:12

I'm not positive how the Cardinals didn't just win that game by 10 points.

23:17

They had almost 500 yards of offense.

23:19

They're driving down.

23:21

They're about to score and go up 10, nothing and Murray throws one of the worst picks by a good QB of the season, flips the game, throws another terrible pick later seems banged up by the end.

23:32

And we had been talking about this.

23:33

You and I talked about it. I talked about it with Sal on Sunday night.

23:36

It's like he had the car, drones are in pole position.

23:38

There's something I just, don't a hundred percent trust.

23:42

And it all comes out in that game.

23:44

Yep. All it now. It's like, yeah, they haven't been there and I'm not as talented and amazing as Kyla Marie is.

23:51

Sometimes it sucks when either you're rooting for him or you're betting on him and you can kind of see how that game's going.

23:58

And you think like, oh shit, this guy's five 10.

24:00

And I don't totally trust how this is going to go.

24:04

And it feels like all of a sudden they're batting down passes and you know, some, some of his little shaker decision-making pops into play and then I'll have a play where he's about to get sacked.

24:14

And he does a pure at 1 8, 8 runs out and get 17 yards.

24:18

Right. That's my guy. That's He

24:20

completed a pass on third and nine. Like that was one of the best completions on a big plate you'll ever see.

24:24

And it was along the sidelines and you're like, oh shit, he's just so good.

24:27

He's so good. But it's a roller coaster ride cliff.

24:30

It just is. So I don't know if I'm getting back on the season.

24:33

That's fair. Come on. Thinking it might be, might be staying away.

24:36

I didn't really enjoy my last roller coaster ride.

24:38

I'm going today. No. And one of the weirdest stats that I've ever seen, there's seven and on the road and they have a plus 112 point differential and a plus 17 turnover differential on the road.

24:49

But at home they're giving up just as many points as they are scoring.

24:53

And they're minus 17 with turnovers.

24:55

It's a very odd team. They went on the road and they're not, they're not good at home.

25:00

It's very bizarre.

25:03

Glendale is a weird place to play.

25:05

And I know this firsthand soccer tournaments Or

25:09

super Bowls. What do you got now? The fucking Kyrie.

25:11

Oh

25:11

my

25:14

God. It's just weird. They energy's weird.

25:16

You're driving forever. It feels like it's in the middle of nowhere.

25:19

Even though it's not and big spacious stadium, it's got this weird energy to it.

25:24

And I don't know. It's like that last of the old school domes that people were building in the two thousands.

25:30

I think they make them better now. They're there.

25:32

They feel a little more intimate than the stretch from like Gillette stadium, all the way through whatever that Glendale things called, where it giant stadiums and other one it's like, is this an advantage?

25:45

Yup. Does that feel like it helps the home team?

25:47

Cause It's not in downtown.

25:49

You've got to drive out to get there. There's like a, you know, it's like the, what's it called the bar Louie.

25:54

And they've got like the, the, the whole thing.

25:56

That's like the little, like a couple of restaurants.

25:57

I don't know if they still have those.

26:00

The Jillian's like the bowling thing, whatever that was, you know?

26:02

And then it's the stadium and you're like, all right, it's, I'm in a corporate office park and here we go.

26:07

And it's a fan base.

26:08

That That's a great way to say it.

26:10

That's what San Francisco's like. It's a corporate office park with a giant stadium in it.

26:15

And it's like, what it is, it's this cool. Does this feel like an advantage at all?

26:18

Maybe that's just the heroin, especially with half the people at the game or just on their phone checking their fantasy teams at the time.

26:25

Unless it's a Monday night.

26:27

All right, we're gonna take a break.

26:29

We're going to come back. We're gonna try to figure out the million-dollar picks.

26:33

I, I can't tell you how do we are we, you know, you're, you know, you're in a bad run, but man, are we do, how are we not?

26:42

Are we doing, or am I crazy? Are you Kidding me? We've had some of the worst bad beats in the history of sports gambling over the last few weeks.

26:48

Yes, we're do God.

26:50

Every time. There's a bad beat.

26:52

Just assume there was a million dollars. Sorry.

26:54

I would take quick break.

26:58

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28:29

All right. Million dollar picks week 15.

28:33

I'm

28:33

so

28:33

disoriented

28:33

by

28:33

this

28:37

season. We're already in the Saturday game schedule, but it's not the second to last week of the season.

28:41

And there's lots of football left and the patch I feel like, oh my God, that, and there's so many games left.

28:47

I know, I don't know who's in the driver's seat, very confusing, but we're going to jump on Casey playing tonight, which I feel good about for a variety of reasons.

28:57

You mentioned Slater is not playing the left tackle, who is the best line rather than the chargers seems important.

29:03

It's a home game for the chargers, but as we've seen all season and for the last two seasons, is it, does it count as a home game?

29:11

How many chiefs, how many chiefs fans are going to be there?

29:13

How many chiefs spans turn this into their little holiday trip or let's come to LA, we'll go to the game on Thursday state for the weekend.

29:20

What's the most random Chief's

29:22

Jersey. You're going say, I'm thinking like a Dexter McAllister, you know, Jersey.

29:25

You're going to see that this is what we call the not New Jersey game, where people just have these incredible random chiefs jerseys all over.

29:34

Well, you know what? The underrated ones are.

29:36

It's the Montana Jersey in the allonges, the Marcus Allen Jersey is like a secret one that you will see.

29:41

So you got that.

29:43

The

29:43

chargers,

29:43

they're

29:43

getting

29:43

some

29:43

Renaissance

29:48

stuff. And our guy Ben, Solack rode better for the ringer this week.

29:51

About what, what, why does our offense looks so much better?

29:54

And it does. And it's like, they're doing more stuff on first down, they're using Keenan down more all stuff.

29:59

That makes sense.

29:59

At the same time, I look at their schedule.

30:02

They put up 20 points against Minnesota.

30:03

They put up 41 against Pittsburgh on Sunday night.

30:08

But if you remember that game, everyone in Pittsburgh was hurt, right.

30:10

It was basically missing everybody and took advantage 13 points against Denver.

30:16

They

30:16

light

30:16

up

30:16

Cincy,

30:16

really

30:16

weird

30:21

game. We had since seen that game, but it was just, there were turnovers, there were, it was didn't feel like a 41 point offense performance.

30:31

I'll just say that. And then, and they killed the giants last week.

30:34

My point is like, I'm leaving the door open for the chargers, have figured it out on offensive juggernaut thing.

30:41

But at the same time that made it, their managers had a couple of good games and maybe they drift back over to where they are.

30:48

I like the chief's pass rush.

30:50

I think that chiefs have found their identity defensively.

30:53

And especially with that Slater as SPAG Nolo, just blitzes the fuck out of them.

30:57

Then on the flip side, like I like the way the chiefs are running the ball.

31:01

Yeah. They've really, since Edward Solera, this is the best he's looked since he's come back and then Williams comes in and they can throw in it.

31:07

It just seems like even though maybe the points aren't there, I still like that.

31:12

I like the plays. They call it like the way they look.

31:14

And I actually feel like there's upside with the chief still.

31:17

And maybe this is the game. What do you think?

31:20

We'll see. And by the time this goes live, we already will know the results of this.

31:24

I'll just say this, watch the two offensive linemen, the two rookies for the chiefs.

31:27

They, the charters, as we know, have a really struggling run defense and Trey Smith and create Humphrey.

31:33

That's their center and their guard. They're both rookies and they've been mauling dudes.

31:37

And I could see this. Everyone wants to shoot out between the quarterbacks, but I could see the chiefs just dominating the ball up front in the trenches and taking care of business.

31:43

That way A little more Kelsey.

31:45

Yeah, we'll have this up.

31:48

This'll be up by like five o'clock Eastern time.

31:50

So we're we're we have plenty of time to get this in otherwise.

31:52

So Casey, minus three, I think we are marking down.

31:56

Let's go ahead. And in general, this a nice spot for Casey because the pets, the pets are underdogs against the Colts this weekend and the AFC could flip pretty quickly.

32:08

I mean, if you want to talk about it that way, chargers, when they're in first place in the AFC west.

32:11

So it is so up for grabs right now.

32:14

Cause they've already beaten the chiefs in Arrowhead.

32:15

It's actually a really cool week of games, even though it doesn't look like there's that marquee game, every single game seems to have some playoff contention stakes in it.

32:26

And like the whole thing could be totally rewritten by Monday.

32:28

It's an Amazingly

32:29

unusual, good Thursday night game.

32:31

It Is, it's a marquee Thursday night game in week.

32:34

You know, whatever it is that we usually, this is the, you know, Titans Jaguars and both teams got three wins Because

32:40

the flip side is if the charges pull this off without their left tackle and beat the big bully in the AFC west, you would assume it was a Herbert game.

32:47

And Herbert's, you know, he's, I, I'm not going to say he's bursting through the door yet, but The

32:55

past he had his hands, holy crap, that passed the guy in 66 in the air, in the air last week.

33:02

That's maybe the past of the season. So who knows?

33:04

We shall see, but I'll bet on my homes in a big spot, let's go, Well,

33:08

I'm with you. But I was going to say, Herbert, kind of infringing on my homes is wow.

33:15

Factor corner where my home.

33:16

So it was like, I'm the white guy in this league at quarterback.

33:18

I'm the one that gets the quips cut out.

33:22

And everybody has a big jerk circle about what he did this.

33:26

And oh my God. And look at, look at this shit.

33:29

Like there was a Herbert thing where somebody posted the past chart and that, that pass it through that you're talking about.

33:34

I was like 65, 67 yards, whatever it is.

33:37

And it doesn't end on the past chart.

33:40

It's just, this line goes, there's no X to where the past lane did.

33:44

So yeah, from a west standpoint, he's kind of there with my homes, I think.

33:50

And, And it feels like my home's has one in his, in his back pocket for Tyreek tonight.

33:55

And it's like, now I'll take that back. Thank you.

33:58

Yep. My homes really seems like the, I wonder like the stuff with his brother, how much it's weird, his brother, just a very strange social media presence and a whole bunch of different ways.

34:08

And I wonder like, I dunno, wait, maybe that's partly to explain, like he's had kind of a goofy year for him.

34:15

Holmes, who is the guy going in?

34:17

The air? We were thinking was like tiger woods in the late nineties, basically.

34:20

Yeah. So who knows?

34:22

Well, we'll have some answers tonight, more games for us, you know, I'm not letting pads plus two and a half against the Colts go, Okay,

34:30

let's talk about it.

34:32

Well, you make the case for the Colts.

34:34

I want to hear it. If you, if you think they have a chance to make the case, that's not just Jonathan Taylor, they're going to run out them.

34:40

And like, what's the case. What do we know about Damian Harris right now?

34:43

I mean, this is the thing. If we've got a hamstring issue with Harris and we ready for rum, Andre Stevenson and Mack Jones to go into a building and in late December and say, Hey, I'm going to beat a playoff pretending contending team with Derrius Leonard and the forest bucker has culture good.

34:56

Like the cultural legit. They have a really good upfront offensive line, maybe the best in football and then a good defensive line.

35:02

And I think they're going to make Mack Jones beat them on the road in a big spot.

35:06

And I'm not sure as much as we love Mac.

35:08

I'm not sure he's gonna be lightened. The ball is going to be lightened it up all through the air in this game.

35:12

So you worried about young pats guys in key skill position spots?

35:17

Yes.

35:20

Can I flip that on you? That's Why

35:22

we do this. Let's Go Carson Wentz against bill.

35:25

Bellacheck your thoughts.

35:27

It's not a great, not a great matchup for all Carson.

35:28

I'll tell you that. I mean, that is fair, but I will take the cults run game over the Patriots run game right now.

35:37

Fair fair.

35:38

Hat's coming off of by cults Coming

35:41

off of by Frank,

35:44

Greg spellcheck to Beat

35:46

him in the super bowl.

35:49

These are good counters Pat's and a tease or pat straight up.

35:54

What makes you feel better emotionally?

35:59

I mean, if you think the pets are going to, when you take them straight up, right?

36:03

I don't know if the pats are going to win.

36:04

I

36:04

think

36:04

this

36:04

is,

36:04

I

36:04

think

36:04

all

36:04

the

36:04

pats

36:04

fans

36:04

deep

36:04

down

36:04

know

36:04

that

36:04

this

36:04

is

36:04

probably

36:04

other

36:04

than

36:04

the

36:04

chiefs,

36:04

the

36:04

worst

36:04

matchup

36:04

in

36:04

the

36:04

AFC

36:04

for

36:04

them,

36:04

because

36:04

if

36:04

the

36:04

Colts

36:04

get

36:04

the

36:04

lead

36:04

and

36:04

then

36:04

they

36:04

start

36:04

hammering

36:04

it

36:04

with

36:20

Taylor. And even though you stop them nine times, the thing about Taylor's the 10th time, all of a sudden he's running for 38 yards.

36:26

Let me ask you, as far as Patriots fandom goes, when you see that logo and that building and that owner and that history, is there a part of you that just absolutely fucking hates the cults?

36:38

It's not a small part. It's yeah.

36:41

Even without Peyton and without, you know, bill Polian and without all that, it's still just that logo Hate

36:49

the Colts. It goes back to them trying to change the rules after 2004, because they didn't like when we were too mean to their receivers, the oh six title game, which is just still devastating to this day Up

37:04

21, 3, Jeff Cleco The

37:08

Manning Brady stuff. And then the fight gate, when the pats kick their asses.

37:12

And then all of a sudden it was the balls and 45

37:14

to seven. They beat him in that game.

37:16

I just rewatched it. I didn't realize it was that big of a blow and everyone thought Andrew luck, like this is his chance to seize it.

37:21

And it was, it was not that I

37:24

was thinking about luck the other day actually.

37:26

Is that the biggest, what if that's happened this decade?

37:29

Because you think like they had this whole team that was set up to be a monster contender, right?

37:36

They're also he's on the salary cap.

37:38

So it actually costs them from a salary cap standpoint.

37:41

But if luck, I don't know if he just plays and he's a B plus with all the other stuff they have and they don't have to give away a draft capital for whence.

37:51

And they still draft Jonathan Taylor, who they probably would have anyway.

37:53

And they just kept the team that they had.

37:55

And maybe he takes a year off and comes back and he's healthy.

37:59

They

37:59

would

37:59

have

37:59

to

37:59

be

37:59

the

37:59

best

37:59

team

37:59

in

37:59

the

38:03

AFC. I don't, I actually feel like we don't talk about this enough.

38:06

The, oh my God, Andrew luck retired. That guy was really good.

38:10

It's amazing. And he was an MVP candidate every year.

38:12

He had fulfilled every promise as the first overall pick right out of the gates.

38:16

He took them to the playoffs and that was when Pagano got sick and Ariens then got sick before the playoff game against the Ravens, like luck was amazing.

38:23

And yet he kept such a low profile and has kept such a low profile that he showed up at Stanford a few weeks ago.

38:29

And was there when they honored John Lynch and it was like a blip on the radar.

38:32

And I'm like, that's like seeing a Sasquatch.

38:34

I have not seen Andrew luck once. And in today's social media, Instagram world, like, it's unbelievable that he's been so low profile.

38:42

She called me an enigma, which you go to, but it's such a weird fork in the road for them because everything else is kind of there with the Colts.

38:51

Like they would at least be, I think a contender.

38:54

Now they're a team that if they lose this pats game, they're not even a playoff team.

38:57

Probably. Yeah.

38:59

And it's a great water F and there's a great doc to be done on like Andrew luck and what went down there because now three years removed, you're not coming back, but like you removed maybe two years move and shit, I work on TV, you do this stuff.

39:12

I mean, like, I haven't even seen him do an interview or I haven't seen him.

39:15

Would he be good in a studio?

39:17

Maybe? Would it be good doing games? Maybe he's got interesting voice, but like, gosh, Andrew luck has vanished.

39:21

And who knows what the cults could be right now.

39:24

If he had stayed, I'll tell you this.

39:25

It was a huge loss for the BS podcast, south thrown.

39:29

It's Andrew, the giant and me getting to do my day.

39:31

I don't have a lot of good imitations.

39:33

It's only three or four and I could do the luck voice.

39:36

And now it's like, I'm so out of practice, I'm afraid to even try it.

39:40

So it hurt me to Andrew. Lucky you, you know, you left a trail of broken hearts.

39:44

I hope it's happy though.

39:46

It seems like he's happier. It's like, he's like, yeah, traveling the world and climbing and look football, really physical, violent sport.

39:54

Sometimes people are like, I'm good.

39:56

I'm out. I'm going to do something else.

39:57

We

39:57

could

39:57

tease

39:57

the

40:00

paths. Okay. Let's tease him. We can tease the past past seven.

40:05

Okay. Which I think is what we should do this time.

40:07

I think that's the, we can tease them in a six point T's Tate and a half Rican go seven points.

40:13

He's the reason I mentioned the seven points is the Eagles are playing Washington, Washington, just a bunch of COVID scratches, ravished to the point that this is a potential might even have to cancel the game situation.

40:27

I like filling in this game.

40:28

Anyway, the line has climbed to nine and a half on fondos as we're taping this.

40:33

And a seven point teas would take that down to two and a half under a field goal.

40:37

So may like could Philly win by a field goal over a completely ravaged Washington team seems like a safe bet.

40:44

I was thinking of marking it down unless you disagree.

40:47

I go with that. And I, I don't know if I would assume as we do this on a Thursday, Hertz has been practicing this week.

40:52

Just a little bit, been around, been seen. They might go to quarterbacks for all we know.

40:55

You might see some mints. You might see some hurts, whatever it is, the Eagles have avoided the COVID stuff in Washington.

41:00

Unfortunately it has not.

41:03

Third one. If we're going to do a three, three teams, seven point teas, which is plus one 20 on Fandel, the San Francisco 49ers play in the Falcons, the Falcons, the most deceiving six and seven of all time.

41:19

And yet every time there are deep underdog, you get scared because she had to come back around 21 to three.

41:25

Now it's 2117. And Matt, Ryan has the ball to bring them down from nine and a half to two and a half.

41:31

Now we don't have to do this, wanting to talk it out.

41:33

I think the Niners, we talked about this on Sunday.

41:38

I was just really impressed with the, with the blue chippers on that team and the fact that their best guys now, except for the running back, their best guys all seem either healthy or mostly healthy Samuel bossa.

41:56

Yeah. You had you hadn't Trent Williams. So I think it's the best tackle in the sport.

41:59

You can argue that those three, those four guys are enough and with everyone being injured and all this COVID stuff out like that was for guys being healthy and out in the field enough.

42:07

And a Samuel is battling right now. I know he's he played 46 snaps.

42:11

And a lot of guys wouldn't have played any last week, but I think you can argue just the talent of those four guys alone are going to keep them in every game.

42:18

And then you have like, started to come around a little bit.

42:21

Jimmy looks better.

42:23

Jimmy. Still gonna throw his one terrible past That,

42:25

that near pick six was bad, but the 49ers corners are atrocious right now, like real bad.

42:30

And you saw what Jamar chase did if you trust Matt Ryan at all, you might want to stay away.

42:37

Yeah, I was, I there's something about the Falcons as a deep dog.

42:40

I wanted to have the Niners conversation.

42:42

I will say this bet on them to make the super bowl today at 17 to what did you Yeah.

42:48

Interesting, good odds.

42:50

Sure. Because if we're going to say the Cardinals aren't in pole position anymore, and we have Tampa who had Richard Sherman playing sec safety on Sunday and then green bay, who, I don't know, I liked green bay, but they do.

43:05

I think they can be beaten in a playoff game shore. And then I watched that San Francisco team were in the right matchup where they can run the ball and Kiddle, if he can just stay healthy for two more months.

43:14

And then what bossa was doing last week, I thought was out of control.

43:17

They can block, they can rush the passer and they have multiple Playmakers.

43:21

Like what more am I looking for in January?

43:24

Huh? I hear you. I hear you. So that was all right.

43:27

So can I throw in one team, just the Rams are just so ravaged with this stuff too.

43:30

And it's nothing against them. I, you know, obviously I was on them last week against Arizona, but right now it's like, it's really bleak right now.

43:38

And I'm not sure how it clears up by Sunday. So I would say, just consider the Rams and going with whoever they're playing this week, which is Seattle.

43:45

And maybe just say, Seattle's, they're going to be down without locket, maybe, but they might just have more fresh bodies and more guys available to play.

43:53

So Seahawks are plus five and a half, and that could be brought to 11 and half, 12 and a half.

43:59

And I would do that. I would do that. I find it very hard to think that the Rams are going to look anything like they did on Monday with all this stuff they're dealing with this week.

44:07

All right. So we'll mark that one down Eagles minus two and a half pats, two plus nine and a half.

44:12

And see it. I wonder if that we just do a 10 point tease with that.

44:17

All

44:20

right. We'll figure it out. Two more bets for you.

44:22

So FanDuel has these alternate lines and I think we might, there's a chance we might boost this, assuming the COVID stuff goes okay with these, but we can take the paths to minus two and a half.

44:35

So if they wish they'd have to win by a field goal against the Colts, plus one 30, take the Browns playing in Vegas.

44:43

Obviously no Mayfield, but I'm not even positive.

44:46

That's a bad thing. Assuming it as a play.

44:47

Cause I think case Keenum, I'm not sure there's a difference.

44:50

I know they've had some COVID stuff too.

44:51

A lot of you, you can take that in the minus three and a half, that would be plus one 70 for the brands to win by four against this Vegas team.

45:00

That just seems like they're just a complete mess.

45:02

Yeah. And it's in cold weather in Cleveland. I'm not sure if Vegas is looking to schlep out there and bring their a game for that game, they might already be done.

45:09

Pats brands with those alternate lines would be a plus 5 21 parlay fun Saturday.

45:16

You liked that one. Sounds like a fun Saturday.

45:18

So little on the pats, minus two and a half little on the Browns.

45:22

Mine is three and a half. They would both have to cover that.

45:24

Plus 5 21. I thought we could mark that down and then last but not least underdogs, underdog, Parley.

45:31

We knew we weren't going to do well last week.

45:33

We just didn't like the underdogs and we weren't feeling great about it, but a couple of good ones this week, we have the Texans.

45:45

Okay. Why would you do the Texans? They suck what's going on there?

45:48

Well, Jackson was favored by five over them.

45:51

And I just, my question is should Jacksonville be favored by five over anybody?

45:55

Plus the glass half full is like, well, got rid of urban.

45:59

There'll be so fired up to me that I'm glass half empty.

46:01

This has been a complete shit show all week crazy week.

46:04

And this should mean, this is a coin flip.

46:08

How do we know who's going to win a Jacksonville Texans game?

46:10

Who knows? Let's go. We've met on the Texans.

46:12

I think twice this season. And they won those two games.

46:15

Texans beat the Jaguars. Yeah, let's go.

46:17

And then, so that's one.

46:20

And then the other one would be as an underdog.

46:22

The Bengals, the Bengals are Denver.

46:27

I like it.

46:28

We won't give up on the bangles.

46:30

Even me plus one 30 for the Bengals I'm in, let's go Texans plus one 90.

46:38

And if you put them together, it's around plus five 70, which will boost.

46:43

Cause we like to do for the, for the Fandel stuff.

46:46

So that's what we're looking at. Anything else?

46:48

Anything else you would throw in there? No, I'm good.

46:50

I feel great about this. Okay.

46:52

You feel great about this?

46:53

I

46:53

do

46:56

not. It's the holidays. Let's go.

46:57

All right.

46:58

Carlton's camera.

47:00

Million-dollar

47:00

pecs

47:00

week

47:00

15,

47:00

taping

47:00

this

47:00

lunchtime

47:00

Pacific

47:00

time

47:00

in

47:00

time

47:00

to

47:00

get

47:00

the

47:00

Thursday

47:00

night

47:00

game

47:00

in

47:00

Casey

47:00

at

47:00

the

47:11

chargers.

47:11

Do

47:11

you

47:11

really

47:11

consider

47:11

this

47:11

a

47:11

home

47:11

game

47:11

for

47:11

the

47:16

chargers? Peter Schrager? I don't know.

47:17

I imagine a lot of Dexter McAllister and Glen Dorsey jerseys out there.

47:21

Casey,

47:21

minus

47:21

three,

47:21

no

47:21

left

47:21

tackle

47:21

for

47:21

the

47:21

chargers

47:21

AFC

47:21

west

47:21

on

47:21

the

47:21

line

47:21

in

47:21

a

47:21

way

47:21

that

47:21

I

47:21

think

47:21

the

47:21

chiefs

47:21

actually

47:21

need

47:21

this

47:34

game. It's not like, ah, if we lose, this will be fun.

47:36

It's I know actually the charges could grab the AFC west.

47:39

If you lose this Latta Herbert bus this week, Latta Herbert bus.

47:45

Herbert has the strongest arm and is the best young quarterback buzz.

47:50

A lot of my homes. Hey, you're not the sexy new thing anymore.

47:53

I'm sorry. There's no a new hot actress is coming in and taking your place.

47:57

You're not in the magazine covers anymore.

47:58

Home Michael Jordan, guess what? Clyde Drexler might be the best shooting guard in basketball.

48:04

I liked the way that chiefs look right now and getting them minus three or under jumped on that.

48:11

We're going big 750.

48:16

And

48:16

the

48:16

chiefs

48:16

by

48:16

industry

48:16

for

48:16

the

48:16

year,

48:16

we're

48:16

down

48:24

995. We need to start making some swings.

48:26

We've got the playoffs. We need to increase the bankroll here In

48:30

this game. If Troy Aikman and Joe bucks in the named Trey Pipkin, 20 times, Trey Pipkin is filling in for Rashaan Slater.

48:36

He is out of Sioux falls college.

48:38

Like if Trey Pipkin has mentioned, a bunch of mates were doing Next

48:43

one, a tease, it's a three teamer.

48:47

It's going to be a seven point affair, which is plus one 20 on Fandel.

48:54

And here's what we're going to do.

48:55

If you agree, we're going to take the Eagles down from minus nine and a half to minus two and a half against Washington, who is just going to have a bunch of people scratched and might not be good to begin with and had some quarterback issues already.

49:07

Philly wins by a field goal. We're good.

49:09

Hopefully some issue mania, be excited for that.

49:11

Maybe the Patriots we're going to take them from plus two and a half all the way to plus nine and a half.

49:16

So the cults really have to, we'd have to kick their ass at this point we would need back to completely melt down.

49:22

I don't think that's happening Saturday night.

49:24

And then finally the Seahawks taking them from five and a half to 12 and a half against the ramps.

49:31

Now

49:31

my

49:31

question

49:31

is,

49:31

do

49:31

we

49:31

do

49:31

a

49:31

seven

49:31

point

49:31

teaser

49:31

or

49:31

six

49:31

point

49:36

teas? If we wanted to get frisky about the Eagles, can they beat Washington by four?

49:41

Does

49:41

that

49:41

make

49:41

you

49:41

more

49:41

nervous

49:41

than

49:41

the

49:41

two

49:41

and

49:41

a

49:45

half? We can take the three and a half or two and a half.

49:47

No, let's go. I think they can.

49:49

Let's go. Let's play. Okay. Play A

49:51

big six point teases plus one 40.

49:53

So we're going to take the Eagles to minus three and a half.

49:56

We're going to take the paths to plus eight and a half and the Seahawks to plus 11 app plus one 40, little less on that one, 200 K that's right.

50:06

Then we're going to do a little alternate line parlay that you can do on fender.

50:11

We're gonna take the paths to minus two and a half.

50:13

Plus one 30, the Browns who probably have case Keenum started.

50:19

They're having some, some COVID issues as well.

50:21

I get it, but that, that Vegas and we don't trust Vegas.

50:25

Plus one 70 minus three and a half.

50:27

We put a hundred K on that plus 5 21 plus 5 21 for the parlay, a hundred K in that one.

50:33

I like it. This is the Willie McGinnis parlay because he is going to be there for NFL network.

50:39

It's the Patriots. It's the Browns. It's his teams.

50:41

This is all for big Willie.

50:42

And it's a Saturday thing.

50:44

We'll know right away. We'll know if we won a hundred K at plus 5 21.

50:48

We'll know at the end of Saturday night, whether that one worked out Pat's minus two and a half Browns, minus three and a half.

50:53

Finally underdog, partly of the weak Texans to beat who's coaching in the Jaguars.

51:00

Now it's Darryl bevel, Darryl bevel, Bengals to win in Denver.

51:07

I like it.

51:09

Combo. That is plus five 70.

51:10

We're going to boost that up to 7 0 1.

51:12

Come on, give myself a fando boost, put 33 K on that.

51:17

What are you the most excited about?

51:20

Of all of those bets? I can't wait.

51:22

I cannot wait to see what Cleveland brings amidst all this COVID stuff.

51:27

Without the fans key, all this stuff can't they hold their end of the bargain.

51:30

Come on. Now. Brown's also little reverse Ewing theory for them with Odell Beckham, who's gone to the Rams and who is immediately turned into an asset again.

51:39

It's like what's going on here.

51:42

All right. Those are the million dollar picks for week 15.

51:46

You work in Saturday. I'll be there Saturday and Sunday.

51:49

Let's go. All right, let's go.

51:51

So it was C a shrugs on good morning football.

51:54

We'll see him on Fox this weekend.

51:55

Good to see you as always we're taping this.

52:02

It is a in the morning on Thursday tender buyers coming out on Friday.

52:08

Ben Affleck is here. He's doing a lot of press, not a lot of press about the Patriots.

52:13

Come back. You've you've it's been more about you and the movie.

52:16

I don't, I don't understand why the Patriots aren't at the forefront.

52:20

I think they would be, but you know, most people outside of new England, believe it or not.

52:24

Aren't as interested in talking about that.

52:26

I can't explain it. Well, I'm going to start.

52:28

I want to start sports, then we'd go. The other stuff you're friends with Brady, you love Brady.

52:33

You appreciated the Brady run.

52:34

Brady goes to the bucks.

52:36

You're rooting for Brady, but now the paths are good again.

52:38

So I just need to know coming out of the gate where your heart is right now, Split.

52:43

I

52:43

mean,

52:43

you

52:43

know,

52:43

I

52:43

look,

52:43

you

52:43

know,

52:43

I

52:43

grew

52:43

up

52:43

in

52:43

new

52:48

England. I love the Patriots and I was, well, you know, like the red Sox and selves and the whole thing.

52:54

But, you know, I don't know if this happens to be honest, you know, I haven't spirit of moms.

53:00

Cause

53:00

when

53:00

I

53:00

was

53:00

a

53:00

kid,

53:00

right

53:00

lag,

53:00

we

53:00

watched

53:00

the

53:00

irony

53:00

and

53:00

Kevin

53:00

and

53:00

DJ

53:00

and,

53:00

and

53:00

Danny

53:00

Ainge

53:00

like

53:00

play

53:00

the

53:09

pistols. You know what I mean? You felt like God, you guys hate each other.

53:12

I really want to win.

53:14

They really want to beat Lamphere.

53:15

You know what I mean? They really, they want to beat the Lakers.

53:20

You know, Larry got a fight with Dr.

53:22

J and 81 or whatever it, and it was like, not that you want to prove a fighting, that's a good thing, but it was emblematic of a certain kind of genuine competition that as I got a little bit older, well, a lot older.

53:41

And I started to meet people who played professional sports.

53:44

I started to get, like I started with, I got really lucky and because I was so into the sauce, I got to know, you know, I met Pedro in 99 and then I got to know a bunch of the guys in, you know, three or four team.

53:58

And they were great. It's a great team, spirit and great guys, but like overall one can't help, but start to get the sense that for one thing, like none of them are from the right.

54:10

So they're kind of like, yeah, I'm from Oklahoma and now I play for Boston and I'd never been there.

54:15

And I hope it's a great town, but they're not people who have a tremendous amount of allegiance for Boston itself.

54:21

Whereas the fans really do.

54:22

And that's okay. But don't, you start to get the sense that the business changed of sports, professional sports, somewhere between the eighties, nineties and where it is today, we're really became about that.

54:33

And they all have the same agents.

54:35

They all kind of want to like, no, it's like, yeah, sure.

54:39

We kind of put on a show and we want to win us collectively or us individually.

54:43

But there seem to be less of a emphasis on like the regional aspect of it and where we're from.

54:50

And we're doing this for the city. And part of it to kind of say that because you're supposed to, but it does.

54:55

It was, it became harder for me to invest in a team purely based on like, these guys love my town because I knew that wasn't always the case.

55:04

You know what I mean? It'd be happy to, you know, Johnny, Damon's gonna run off to New York, you know?

55:08

And, and so were a lot of other people and then you go like, you feel like he's so betrayed, you know, how did you do this?

55:14

And the truth is this. Cause I did, I don't know Johnny Damon, I don't know what his motivations were, but I think most people are kind of like, how did I do it just as like another 20 million hours down the street, you know?

55:24

And I love Kenmore square. Don't get me wrong.

55:26

But like, I'm not going to spend my life there just out of fealty.

55:30

And the only guy, the contemporary sports era, I think who genuinely gave up money committed, like put his money where his mouth was and committed to the idea of we're going to build this franchise for this city was Tom Brady.

55:47

And I, don't not sure he was rewarded for that.

55:53

Yeah. I think that's fair. I also think everything you're saying, which I agree with.

55:57

I think that's a product of us getting older where you think like, as you're younger and you're in your twenties and you just think we're all in this together and then eventually Now.

56:09

But I think the Damon one was a good example.

56:11

Cause I remember writing about that for ESPN when it happened and I felt completely betrayed, but it was kind of eye-opening because it's like, all right, we're rooting for the laundry.

56:19

It's really about us. The players kind of come and go.

56:22

They don't really care. It's a job to them.

56:24

You know? And I think the old four red socks, one of the reasons that team one was most of those guys weren't from there.

56:30

Some of them weren't even from America, they didn't care about a curse.

56:32

We cared about the curse. You know, they didn't, they didn't know about it.

56:36

They didn't grow up with it. They weren't nervous about 86 years of baggage.

56:40

When they're out there freezing cold at Fenway on a Sunday night when it's 30 degrees out, they're not thinking, oh my God, so much baggage.

56:47

I could feel all of it. Like they're just dudes professional athletes.

56:51

So yeah, I do think it's a product.

56:53

That's true. I think you really read it. I think they, I think it can, maybe it can be both, you know what I mean?

56:58

Which is they do bond and they do like their team.

56:59

Like I want one of the greatest things I've ever seen in sports.

57:02

I think it was one of the ESPN docs was malar.

57:05

Was it the night of the game, four game against the Yankees.

57:10

He was kind of real relaxed and playing catch.

57:12

And he was sort of talking to some, you know, like somebody recording them on the sideline.

57:18

And he said, you know, well, I'll tell you what, don't let us win tomorrow, you know, tomorrow.

57:23

And he started putting together a scenario that was like to all of us, like utterly impossible and absurd.

57:29

And it never happened in history. And certainly it was never going to happen in Boston.

57:32

And you have to him, it was like, well, cause then we got Kurt on the mound and then we got up and he put together this whole idea.

57:39

I've always found that like that moment I've wanted to steal for him.

57:43

I think that's a brilliant idea of a guy whose back is totally against the wall.

57:47

The odds are entirely against him and he's completely comfortable with the idea that, well, we get one little opening, you know, we can take advantage of that and we can take another, you know, it's possible.

57:58

I can see the way all the way to the top of Mount Everest where everybody else just feels like it's impossible for you to adapt.

58:04

That will never survive.

58:06

Well, at that point, everyone had hit rock bottom, emotionally.

58:08

They just lost 19 to eight.

58:10

I went to four and five and it just seemed all that seems so improbable.

58:14

I think that's the only way we could one the more the years pass it's like it had to be just like this complete improbable miracle or else.

58:24

If it didn't seem realistic at all, would it never happened?

58:27

I knew that the, I agree at the time I knew, I remember talking to my friends going, there's no way we're going to be, unless it's the most incredible comeback story ever.

58:36

And by the way, if we do the world series is total afterthought and it won't even be a question there's no they're going to win the world series no matter who or what happens because it's clearly destiny and people already was the world series.

58:49

And in fact like who remembers St.

58:52

Louis? You know what I mean? Kevin alar, you know, like bill Miller three hours.

58:57

I mean, whatever. It was like, I don't even like keeps focus on the mound and I can't remember, was it who caught the ball or what?

59:04

There was no drama. There was no any, it was just like, yeah, no we're going to win because things are different.

59:12

Yeah. It was like blues brothers wrote a mission from God.

59:13

This is happening.

59:16

Yeah. It definitely, I know it changed my mood just in life and my perspective on everything.

59:22

And I'm sure, I think everybody who cared about the team and then this Patriots run.

59:26

I mean, now you think it's over and everybody was so happy last year about, oh yeah.

59:33

Oh, welcome to the real NFL.

59:35

No more Brady BoJack.

59:36

And then within a year it's kind of back and it's retro and you're dating J-Lo again.

59:43

I feel like we're in a time machine. It's the early two thousands, a young Patriots team on the rise.

59:47

You guys are back.

59:50

I can remember. I think we were doing Shealy when the budgetary kick the field goal, I guess Oakland was it in the snow and other three snow Guys.

1:00:00

Oh one yet.

1:00:03

But that was the first three. That wasn't it.

1:00:05

No, the second one, the CA you're thinking the Carolina Superbowl where they, Yeah,

1:00:09

but

1:00:09

I

1:00:09

nonetheless,

1:00:09

that

1:00:09

was

1:00:09

the

1:00:09

era

1:00:09

of

1:00:09

the,

1:00:09

like,

1:00:09

you

1:00:09

know,

1:00:09

in

1:00:09

the

1:00:09

last

1:00:09

super

1:00:09

bowl,

1:00:09

you

1:00:09

know,

1:00:09

before

1:00:09

that

1:00:09

early

1:00:09

two

1:00:09

thousands

1:00:09

time

1:00:09

was

1:00:09

86

1:00:09

when

1:00:09

we

1:00:09

got

1:00:09

run

1:00:09

by

1:00:09

the

1:00:09

bears

1:00:09

and

1:00:09

the

1:00:09

super

1:00:09

bowl

1:00:09

shuffle

1:00:09

ran

1:00:09

and

1:00:28

yeah. So all, you know, everything's comes back around again.

1:00:30

Evidently I saw you on Kimmel show last night and I thought it was funny that he brought up when, when you gave him the tip of where Brady was going well, because he immediately gave it to me and Sal, and I think we bet it.

1:00:43

And I think you cost all of us money because it was like, oh, Alex got the inside info on You

1:00:48

guys are cheap. It couldn't have been more than 50 bucks.

1:00:53

Yeah. I think Brady was filling that stuff out.

1:00:55

He was, he was probably using you to make sure you weren't like, you know, that you weren't leaking info.

1:01:02

I dunno. I think actually the truth was there was a lot of, there were a lot of considerations for him, you know, he's he really is a good guy and a big part of ultimately I think what matters to Tom is being close to his son is in New York and the California teams.

1:01:19

Ultimately I think at the end of the day, if I had to guess that was a determining factor, he's not a guy who wants to be that far away from this kid and a on game day, who cares so much about seeing the game obviously.

1:01:32

And so whether or not it was the best deal, obviously history shows.

1:01:37

He's not somebody who just goes, well, what's the best number.

1:01:40

What's the best deal after Boris make me the most money.

1:01:43

You know, what's going to fit in my life.

1:01:45

What's going to work for my wife. What's going to work for my children.

1:01:48

And by the way, it doesn't matter where I go, because I'm going to win the super bowl.

1:01:53

I mean, how many thousands of years would it have taken for Tampa bay As

1:02:04

you got, as you got older and more famous and more known, was it a, do you find yourself?

1:02:11

You have just more in common with somebody like Brady, just cause you're going through a lot of the same stuff.

1:02:17

What it's like to be in the public eye, how have to be reserved, how any one thing you say could get blown out and just who do you trust?

1:02:23

All of those, all those things that like in A-plus LR has to deal with That

1:02:28

may be true about something that I wish I had more time.

1:02:31

Right. I played catch with a man once and realized how very little we haven't come.

1:02:36

I mean, he was throwing the ball to me and I thought, I mean, I was praying to God that I catch the ball, not just because I wanted to impress the guy, which I very much did because I really thought I would get hurt if I didn't.

1:02:49

Cause it would come chills up right in front of your face.

1:02:51

You know what I mean? And after about 10 minutes he was like, you ready?

1:02:55

And I said, yeah.

1:02:58

And he goes, all right, now I'm gonna start throwing.

1:02:59

And I was like, oh my God, know what?

1:03:03

Dumping a 30 miles an hour on this.

1:03:05

Cause I'm very much at my like peak and really trying.

1:03:08

And it was incredible. It was the most incredible, just not spending a ton of time around like pro athletes in terms of like, Hey, you know, come out on the court with us or whatever, you know, I'm sure anybody you see was a pro or a semipro or a great player in college, you know, they get into your pickup game.

1:03:24

You really understand very quickly what's the difference between excellence and a 50 year old white men, but the w watch him do it and have not be that much.

1:03:35

And

1:03:35

also

1:03:35

just

1:03:35

watch

1:03:35

what

1:03:35

he's

1:03:39

done. It's like, I don't know who has, you know, there are very, very few Serina Williams.

1:03:43

I mean, how many people have really Michael Jordan, how many people could really relate to that?

1:03:47

You know, the bond, I mean, obviously do very well making a bunch of comparisons among people like that.

1:03:53

And you understand that really well, but I could detail and nuance it much better than I could.

1:03:58

But ultimately at the end of the day, there's tend to be men and women who have done, you know, made that level of what they do.

1:04:06

So I have some things in common with Tom.

1:04:09

I like to think like people who both know who we are sometimes, and we were in new England and, but this is sort of about it.

1:04:19

You know what I mean? He's just like, and he also talk about never, you know, he has this incredible knack for maintaining discipline and that includes like a refusal to, to deviate in any way from the kind of bull Durham platitudes.

1:04:36

You know what I mean?

1:04:37

That Kevin Costner taught Tim Robbins that movie, no matter what they say, no matter what happens.

1:04:43

And you know, a lot of those people, you know, try to be provocative.

1:04:47

You know what I mean, in an effort to like stoke conflict and what may or may not, but quite possibly could be an environment where there is in fact personality, conflict.

1:04:59

And nonetheless, you just see like, I mean, Tom, and you would never know, great.

1:05:05

Just try to win next week, just having a good time.

1:05:07

Ah, you know, just lucky to be here.

1:05:08

Ah, doesn't comment on what it's like being, you know, the greatest ever doesn't comment that, I mean, sometimes they'll say, you know, appropriately things and it satisfies the fans, but he has this really rare for an athlete because that's not their business understanding of exactly where the line is about what to say to entertain people and never, ever cost himself in terms of having to answer another question the next day, about what he said the day before.

1:05:38

Yeah. Wonder if he learned some of that from Belicheck because bell checks the master that right.

1:05:41

He never says anything interesting, even though he's an incredibly interesting, He's

1:05:45

fascinating, but he doesn't come off like a great, I mean, look, I'm from doing what I love about checking for him all the time.

1:05:52

I never got the sense that he was fun to play for.

1:05:55

I never got the sense that it was like a Sterling conversationally.

1:05:58

He's not charismatic.

1:06:00

He is like charismatic, you know, in the realm of George Clooney or Carrie Grant's or one of those people at the met ball, although I would pay a lot of money to see that, you know, I mean, he, he's also enjoyable because he will sort of without saying it kind of say fuck off to people all the time, you know, like Ridley Scott, a director I just worked with in Russia where somebody read It,

1:06:35

it was amazing To

1:06:37

see the video.

1:06:38

You

1:06:38

know,

1:06:38

the

1:06:38

guy

1:06:38

kind

1:06:38

of

1:06:38

gives

1:06:38

them

1:06:38

a

1:06:38

backhanded

1:06:38

compliment,

1:06:38

the

1:06:38

kind

1:06:38

of

1:06:38

which

1:06:38

one

1:06:38

becomes

1:06:38

accustomed

1:06:38

to

1:06:38

it's

1:06:38

like

1:06:38

routine,

1:06:38

you

1:06:38

know

1:06:38

what

1:06:38

I

1:06:49

mean? You know, this, movie's not as bad as your previous film, you know, in that sense and you have to go, thank you.

1:06:57

That's so nice. And he was just like, so Bravo journalists like understood.

1:07:04

Like he just, it's just at a point in his life where he just doesn't care.

1:07:09

You know what I mean? If you're going to sell me, I'll just tell you to fuck off and end the interview.

1:07:13

And that's a, an enviable position to be kind of funny, but Belcher kind of reminds me of that.

1:07:18

And it says he doesn't tolerate any, he won't Brook any nonsense.

1:07:22

He's also older than Tom. There's a little more gravitas.

1:07:24

You know, he's older than some of these other grizzled writers to kind of probably see themselves as you know, the real work at a lunch pail veterans of the new England sports world.

1:07:35

And I don't think anybody can Trump Belicheck in that capacity.

1:07:38

And

1:07:38

also

1:07:38

he's

1:07:38

just

1:07:38

like

1:07:38

checking

1:07:38

exhibits

1:07:38

and

1:07:38

attitude

1:07:38

publicly

1:07:38

that

1:07:38

many

1:07:38

others

1:07:38

exhibit

1:07:38

privately,

1:07:38

but

1:07:38

don't

1:07:38

feel

1:07:38

comfortable

1:07:38

saying,

1:07:38

which

1:07:38

is

1:07:38

basically

1:07:38

like,

1:07:38

you

1:07:38

don't

1:07:38

fucking

1:07:38

understand

1:07:38

this

1:07:38

even

1:07:38

remotely

1:07:38

the

1:07:38

way

1:07:38

I

1:07:54

do. So shut the fuck up.

1:07:55

Not the vibe you get from him, you know, I'm in this now.

1:07:59

And it's, it is very appealing in its own way because it's, you know, you wish you could have that kind of sense of self.

1:08:07

But Tom is, I would say, Tom is another level of master because it's not about just, I'm going to draw a line and I'm going to tell you, you know, I'm just going to basically set a boundary, which says you're not entitled to know any of these things.

1:08:21

And I don't care to tell you. And I don't give a shit.

1:08:23

What you think about that? It's, it's like making you feel as though the question's been answered and you've had a satisfying exchange and you know, like you, you do know him, he likes you.

1:08:34

And that only when he is out of the press conference, did you realize that he didn't really say, You

1:08:39

know what I mean, charming though, But

1:08:44

like he actually didn't answer my question or tell me anything I wanted to know or even respond to what I said, you know, sort of like a Ronald Reagan level gift for communicating.

1:08:53

Well, wait a second, go backwards. So you're playing, catching them.

1:08:56

Cause I've heard this about Brady that he'll be on vacation with people or somebody will be over for the weekend or whatever.

1:09:01

And he basically just eventually sees anybody who seems relatively athletic as somebody who could catch footballs for him for an hour and leverages the whole I'm famous.

1:09:12

Of course they'll want to play catch with the, and you go into it thinking, oh cool, we're going to throw the football, but it becomes an actual workout for him.

1:09:19

Cause I've heard all these stories about people who had no idea.

1:09:23

Like they brought like tennis sneakers and all of a sudden they're running 25 yard outs because Brady needs a workout.

1:09:29

First of all, I wasn't even on vacation with him.

1:09:32

I happened to be the same place and he knew I was there as though you're coming down, let's let's have lunch or something.

1:09:38

And I thought, oh gosh, maybe I'll get to see Tom.

1:09:40

That'd be great. You know?

1:09:41

And, and then he calls me up.

1:09:43

He goes, yeah, jeez, not a great receiver.

1:09:45

You know, she's got a little tired of catching balls for me.

1:09:48

So you're running to catch the most to me.

1:09:50

I think this is like a guy who was born.

1:09:52

Shouldn't make someone's dreams come true tonight.

1:09:55

I'll change someone's life.

1:09:57

Hey, you want to catch my footballs?

1:09:58

Because it is like one of the most memorable days of my life Keep

1:10:05

his arm loose. Like you don't know, it's an actual workout for him.

1:10:09

It's a, w it's definitely a workout. He uses that as a worker and he works you out.

1:10:13

And all of a sudden you're like, okay, I'm going to work out harder than I have 25 years.

1:10:16

I'm going to pretend that it's something that I'm accustomed to and that I can tolerate it, even though I'm sure it's evident that I can't.

1:10:21

And I'm sure what I'm really sure of is that when he sends me 35 yards, he has to wait the amount of time he normally waits for a guy to run 90 yards.

1:10:33

Right. So he's doing like calculus in his head.

1:10:36

I'm like, no, not yet. Not yet.

1:10:38

Not yet. You know, but he still, nonetheless is able to calculate for like extremely slow middle age man, and his pace running as fast as he can to turn it around.

1:10:49

I think he's in the NFL and probably riding the route totally wrong, you know, and have no idea.

1:10:53

And nonetheless, you run like, you know, where does you to go turn around and the second turnaround, you know?

1:11:00

And that's, what's amazing. And yeah, he's working out, he's using it as a workout, but he can use me every day like that.

1:11:06

I mean, it's Julian. He does it.

1:11:07

He does it with his kids too. So I'm sure it doesn't even matter how fast you're going.

1:11:11

That's probably part of the challenge for him is like, cause there's videos of him with like his two boys, you know, they're taking turns.

1:11:19

And so a 12 year old, he's got a calibrated a certain way.

1:11:22

Probably weirdly helps them.

1:11:24

I think it's amazing how obsessed he is with football.

1:11:27

Like at some point, and I don't know what year it was.

1:11:29

He decided to just construct every choice he made in his life around being as good as he possibly could at football.

1:11:36

Like I don't like, I guess the only actor who you've maybe read was kind of like that was Daniel Day Lewis, right?

1:11:44

When he would do a part, he would just completely immerse himself into it.

1:11:48

In every aspect, The

1:11:50

stories I've heard kind of line up with that, the change to me.

1:11:55

Cause I am at Tom, maybe at the white house correspondence dinner or something after like maybe after the first I knew who he was.

1:12:03

So it was after the, the season when he replaced Bledsoe.

1:12:06

And that was it that it happened.

1:12:08

He was like the star and I met him and I was like, oh my God, you're the king of Boston's for the young kid when he was four years younger than me.

1:12:16

And I was like, Hey kid, you know, not really, but like I could sense that he was young and he, he was like, oh no, you know, he's very humble.

1:12:26

And self-effacing, and, and he, but he was a different person, you know, he didn't have that thing you see in him now.

1:12:34

He definitely had that sort of here I am, I'm going to do my best, all shocks.

1:12:38

Hey, I'm trying. And then he wants, and then he went and I took a ten-year draft.

1:12:42

We call it draft, you know, for those of us who, you know, like as if most of us, our whole life as a Superbowl drought, It's

1:12:50

like, fuck you.

1:12:54

And then I remember talking to him at some point during that time.

1:12:56

And I detected there was like a change where he kind of, you know, he was thinking a lot about it it'd become more meaningful to him.

1:13:04

He didn't like, he didn't like the feeling he took it.

1:13:08

And I think some people would go, Hey, I, once I got a good contract and he found, I think that that was the thing that really drove.

1:13:16

He loved that feeling and wanted it.

1:13:19

And he I've ever seen people just don't understand how hard people don't understand what it takes.

1:13:24

People understand the level of commitment it takes to do this, to win it.

1:13:28

You know, they just, it's hard to get.

1:13:30

And I thought like a more kind of, you know, sport, oh, it's hard.

1:13:34

It's, you know, like the usual sort of things you hear.

1:13:36

And I ran into him and Gavin, he said something similar.

1:13:39

And I remember thinking, this is a really different guy.

1:13:41

This is a guy who's really pissed off, but like really serious about this and not fucking around at all.

1:13:50

And that then seemed to be reflected, you know, in terms of what I saw, which was a lot of what people saw, you know, in talking about his, his training, he Roger and his approach is, you know, sleep.

1:14:05

Is he just, I think he made a decision at some point, like, I want to do the absolute best I can and I'm going to do it.

1:14:15

I'm going to dedicate almost every part of it, because this is what I, you know, I'm not going to sell myself short.

1:14:20

I'm not going to give myself the off day.

1:14:23

I'm not going to cut myself a break, not by being overly serious, but by just somehow he had a, a level of commitment to it that changed.

1:14:31

I think he may have surprised himself by what happened the first time he won.

1:14:36

And then he, I think then he decided like, I can do this.

1:14:40

I want to do it. And I have something to prove. I don't know what that was.

1:14:43

And I think his he's great.

1:14:46

He's gifted. You know, obviously they're incredibly athletically gifted quarterbacks, right?

1:14:53

I mean, there are people who can do incredible things, you know, running sideways to throw the ball a hundred yards and all that stuff.

1:14:58

And I've thought a lot about what is it that separates Tom Brady from other human beings?

1:15:05

Why is he able to do this?

1:15:06

Because it's, he has a great arm.

1:15:08

Like you talked to other, I've talked to a lot of other players.

1:15:10

Why, why, why? And then they'll go, yeah, you got a good arm, you know?

1:15:13

Yeah. He's really accurate makes decisions.

1:15:15

Like you get little pieces, you know what I mean?

1:15:17

But he wants to win or he knows how to get along with people.

1:15:20

Or he knows that he's a good leader and you know, he can act with people, but there are a lot of people like that.

1:15:25

And my theory, and maybe just because it relates to my own work, is that, and kind of what I get from him, the difference between him and other people is that he just doesn't have that part of the brain that gets nervous.

1:15:39

He doesn't get tight and my getting tight ruins.

1:15:45

That's why guys dropped the ball, the clutch plate.

1:15:48

You know what I mean? We've all seen, there are famous plays.

1:15:53

They make 10,000 times the ground ball.

1:15:56

All right. Your hands, you know, these moments that it's like, why didn't I do that?

1:16:02

This is what I've been doing since childhood, you know, and also that sort of Seattle throwing interception, you know, that kind of panicked uncertainty that happens when everything's online.

1:16:13

Because even when we were playing catch, he was, we weren't just playing catch.

1:16:17

She would say, all right, this, the super bowl, you know, one of the 16, we have six seconds.

1:16:24

We win. This is every you miss it's over.

1:16:28

And I like even just listening to him like out there and just the field of grass, you know what I mean?

1:16:33

But I thought we were in, I was like, kills me.

1:16:37

I will do anything to catch this ball.

1:16:41

And I went out, I was a little, I like, because I was so slow, it was a little past me and I quit.

1:16:47

I left out and dough and flipped over and I was doing like Batman at the time.

1:16:51

I was like, nevermind my career.

1:16:53

You know, nevermind my aging body.

1:16:55

But he just cause people have talked to me about how like you get in the huddle with the guy and the whole state was anxious.

1:17:05

Everyone at home is anxious.

1:17:07

You're behind. That's just such great fourth quarter team, such a great worst.

1:17:10

You're gonna come from behind you.

1:17:12

You're just going like, yeah, we're win.

1:17:15

This is how we're gonna do. Okay. God, you know, they get, they're all panicked.

1:17:18

And it was just like, nah, it's not a problem.

1:17:20

You do this, you do this, you do this. We'll figure it out.

1:17:22

And yeah, he's looked at the defense and taking it apart and taking advantage of what he knows and all of those things.

1:17:26

But ultimately someone told me a similar story about Joe Montana, which I'm sure you've heard where Exactly

1:17:35

Get in the huddle and they're all panicked. And he goes, Hey, is that chunking?

1:17:37

And they all look over and then they're just thinking of something else.

1:17:41

And they realized like, Joan's all right, like he's not that uptight about this.

1:17:45

And that's really that, like, I've noticed that in a much lesser to a much lesser degree as a director, like you have to give people the sense, like, okay, don't worry.

1:17:58

We're going to succeed. So I'm going to be fine.

1:18:00

You can do it. Even if you don't believe it, you know, if you don't communicate that, That's

1:18:07

a great point. Calmness competitiveness.

1:18:10

That's the other thing with him.

1:18:11

And it's funny because with you, I remember writing this and then I sent it to you and you were like, yeah, you hit it.

1:18:19

But when you had your big comeback, you had the big rise, the fall, everyone kicks third on you come back.

1:18:27

Oh, I flux back. And then you put together a few good things.

1:18:32

That's like, Affleck's fuck it back.

1:18:33

And then you decided to do Batman and people are like, that's weird.

1:18:36

Why is he doing Batman? He's put together this career as a director, you know, he's, he's really, really won the respect of Hollywood.

1:18:44

And why is he doing a superhero movie?

1:18:46

And, and I was looking at it like, cause he's fucking competitive.

1:18:49

If he's going to have the comeback, he wants the actual comeback with capital C.

1:18:53

He wants all of it. Now he's going to be Batman because fuck everybody.

1:18:56

And that was kind of your mentality, right?

1:19:00

Yeah. I mean, really my mentality was like, I thought it matters so much.

1:19:05

Like, because people have been so like had denigrated me, like despite the fact that I think we'll all, wait, wait a minute.

1:19:12

I thought the whole reason I became successful was that you thought I was able to do this.

1:19:17

And I had internalize that sense and it was meaningful to me.

1:19:21

And then people are going, you can't do it.

1:19:23

You don't belong here. You don't deserve this.

1:19:25

It becomes this intense, take it away thing like, nevermind this person, they shouldn't have what they have, which is like a total like de-legitimized nation.

1:19:34

So from 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, you know, it was, and it's a kind of a younger person's draw in some ways, but there's just something proof, you know, I can do this.

1:19:51

I belong here. Get rid of me.

1:19:53

I'm not mean, I, I know I have something to offer.

1:19:57

I know I need some, I can do it.

1:19:59

Even though you're telling me I can't. And that's the only motivation at that point that really works is if people are telling you and I'm sure fuel time and draft pick and so on and so forth, it's very common.

1:20:11

You go like, really? You don't respect me. Well, let's see I'm going to do it.

1:20:15

I'm going to lay it out there on my own terms.

1:20:17

And if you, if you want to tell me, I'm no good at that point, fine, I'll I'll have failed on my own marriage, but I'm going to take a crack at it, which is why when I made gum maybe gone, it was so incredibly stressful because I knew if this doesn't work on that.

1:20:29

And when I made the town, I, this doesn't work.

1:20:32

I'll never be able to act or act in movies again, because they'll write me off of those that he can just direct.

1:20:38

And so having done those things, I sort of relaxed.

1:20:43

I felt as though not that I approved everything, but I didn't want to be told I was the greatest, whoever left.

1:20:51

I didn't want to be praised and I don't need that.

1:20:53

I just don't want to be like anybody treated unfairly or told they're no good.

1:20:58

That sucks.

1:20:59

You know? And it feels bad.

1:21:02

And I wanted, at the time had kids, I want my kids to be proud of, want to do something that was important to my kids.

1:21:08

I want my wife to respect me, you know, all these things like go into this stuff.

1:21:12

Like how you, and unfortunately, like, as people, I think it's an evolutionary thing.

1:21:17

Like if you're not brought along on the hunting party, you know, in the, you know, primordial days, you know, by the other, the rest of the village, you'll start.

1:21:27

So being included and being accepted, even though it doesn't literally mean that I think to the brain on some level means, can I survive?

1:21:36

Which is why ostracization and exile is one of the cruelest, most painful things you can do is why, you know, teenagers suffer from that, like tendency to exclude certain members of the Y we recognize that it's so excruciating.

1:21:51

So I felt that, and I felt like, okay, you know, I have something to prove and I got to prove it.

1:21:58

And at the end of day, we'll just see it.

1:22:01

And it was years and years of giving up a lot of my legs.

1:22:05

Cause I just thought, well, maybe I, I clearly believe that on some level, like, I guess I do.

1:22:10

So I stopped, but you know, maybe I can not feel this way.

1:22:15

Maybe I can do something that I do know what I'm talking about.

1:22:19

And I, but I thought like I can't rely on my talent because I didn't believe in it.

1:22:25

I could only rely on how many hours did that.

1:22:27

So just worked 18 hours a day, every single day, you know?

1:22:31

And so I was exhausted, only thought about the movie all day long, probably very unhealthy obsessive way.

1:22:36

We call me be gone and then just worked well enough that people were like, all right, it's not shit.

1:22:42

You know, even though I love this day, it's probably my favorite movie I made.

1:22:46

And then the town, as it was coming out, I remember being at Toronto film festival, I, one of the awards, wards, whatever it was like, it doesn't look like it's going to work.

1:22:58

It seems like it's going to bomb. I'm sorry.

1:23:00

I

1:23:00

thought

1:23:00

this,

1:23:00

it

1:23:00

really

1:23:00

looks

1:23:00

like

1:23:00

it's

1:23:00

going

1:23:00

to,

1:23:00

you

1:23:00

know,

1:23:00

like

1:23:00

I

1:23:00

couldn't

1:23:00

believe

1:23:00

he

1:23:00

would

1:23:00

say

1:23:00

that

1:23:00

is

1:23:00

this

1:23:07

true. And there's nobody telling me this. And then maybe they were afraid because I remember they spent more money at the last minute, like to, to, to get people to go.

1:23:16

And then it works enough so that, okay, you're gonna, you're going to be able to like work.

1:23:23

You're going to have a career or at least the next few years, unless disaster strikes again.

1:23:28

But it meant that the last chapter of my career, it wasn't the final or was going to be defined by lag, ballgame, see the ladder he came up, he was a disaster.

1:23:38

You were shit. Y'all told him. So we never saw him again, which was not how I want to go and know how I felt it should on some level.

1:23:46

And you know, then I, so yeah, it was like something to prove.

1:23:49

And then I did Argo really just because I was a middle Eastern studies major, I got the script.

1:23:55

I didn't want to just be, I thought people were going to sort of say, well, you can do movies, but I'm only in Boston.

1:24:00

That's all, you know, you know, because of hunting of the talent coming beyond it and competing.

1:24:06

So

1:24:06

I

1:24:06

picked

1:24:06

this

1:24:06

movie

1:24:06

that

1:24:06

was

1:24:06

way

1:24:10

outside. Anything else that I had people had seen me do, even though secretly it was actually between Hollywood and the middle east were sort of the two things I knew really well and was well suited and had good support from grant.

1:24:23

And George were really smart guys. And Chris Terrio, brilliant, Billy Goldberg, comfortable a genius.

1:24:28

And I mean, that was a, not me alone.

1:24:31

It was a very cool and a brilliant cast.

1:24:34

And then when that would be worked, I didn't even really expect that or have anything to prove it.

1:24:40

So at that point I felt like I felt a little bit like, okay, I don't need to, this is a, this is the unhealthy perspective, this idea that I have to be making all these decisions about my life, predicated on like what somebody else says on, on Twitter or, you know, or, or on the comment section of like, w that's not gonna make me happy.

1:25:05

I don't mean it. They don't know anything to do with what I wanted.

1:25:08

And by the way, if you give people the power to sort of make you feel satisfied or happy, according to the degree, to which they tell you you're okay, or good enough or a good person, then like situations that happen where somebody completely, mis-characterizes what you say and decide to say it, like, you know, you're already a terrible ex-husband and it says there that, you know, if you don't really understand that that's entirely false and you know, you know, and that you don't really, that these opinions are often come from people who haven't even, you know, who I've just skimmed the last article.

1:25:45

And I have no idea. They don't know me, not only that, but they don't even know what the source material is that they're referring to because we just don't take the time to do that.

1:25:53

You know, it's just, what's on my newsfeed.

1:25:55

What do I think I'm going to write a response, then I'd really be hostage to that.

1:26:00

And I have to worry every speck of does everybody liked me.

1:26:02

And so I just thought like, you know what, he's lasted her movies, kids, didn't see, my son's getting older.

1:26:09

He likes superheroes.

1:26:10

You know, my middle child might be into it.

1:26:14

I know my daughter wouldn't be interested in Batman, my eldest daughter, but I was like, I'm going to do my friend kids.

1:26:20

And yeah, I want it to work, you know, and I want to try this.

1:26:23

And I also want to sort of like Daredevil always bothered me because it was a movie I sowed in life, you know?

1:26:31

And I had loved that hero as a kid.

1:26:33

And so it, it ADA, because I thought we had the best character and really fucked it up.

1:26:40

And it was right before they really understood how to do those movies and the terrible fucking irony that was on that.

1:26:51

But he just was like a subordinate, like third guy, oh, he could have saved it.

1:26:58

I keep on thinking. I should have just turned to him and been like, fuck all these people.

1:27:03

What do we do?

1:27:04

Because I've never, if there's anybody that I've, I've never thought this was true about anybody.

1:27:09

And so I looked at his career, if there's any one person who I would actually believe when they told me this is what the audience wants, it would be him because he seemed to have like an unerring instinct for, you know, two separate pieces, two jokes pulling the hardest heartstrings, make fun of the suits, you know, to set pieces.

1:27:28

You know what I mean? Like, and then the rat in the villain, like for what he does that genre, those movies.

1:27:35

And by the way, there's never been a more successful producer in the history of ever by far.

1:27:40

And going back to wherever you are, Darryl Zanuck and anybody else, you know, it's like, anyway, so it's like you find out you were working with Cecil B DeMille and he was, you know, somebody's VP and they made him be quiet.

1:27:53

It's like, the answer was right.

1:27:58

Going back to that stretch. Cause they, the first time Damon came on this pod and we, we had like, we talked about everything, but we, one of the things we were talking about was when people, when you started to have a little bit of, you know, you had a couple of misses and people started comparing the two, you against each other.

1:28:15

And he was the most upset about that than anything.

1:28:18

Cause he was like, it wasn't like I was making every artistic choice either.

1:28:21

Like the, the narrative became Affleck's grabbing Paychex and Damon's the one who wants to do good work.

1:28:27

And he was like, fuck, that, that was, Oh,

1:28:30

he was getting paid.

1:28:35

But, but he w he was really hurt by that.

1:28:37

Cause he was, you guys were so close and you know, and then he's protective of you obviously.

1:28:40

But I think he hit go bad and he felt uncomfortable.

1:28:43

Anytime you see something that's like, first of all, we're best friends.

1:28:48

We love each other. And we do really root for each other.

1:28:51

And I think he was, I imagine kind of going like, Hey, I feel bad for my friend because this isn't really fair and be like, attribute to me like some great wisdom that I'm the genius because we have very similar tastes in movies.

1:29:08

And it wasn't like I was out there going like Scorsese down.

1:29:12

Now I'm going to do surviving.

1:29:15

You know what I mean?

1:29:17

Part of what you're as an actor, I know this is a difficult thing to see because you don't know what the range of things you're choosing from or where your opportunities are, but because it's collaborative, you're a hostage to a number of other things.

1:29:32

You're never going to be better than them.

1:29:33

You're never going to be better than director.

1:29:35

You're never going to, you know, you're bounded by what's available to you.

1:29:42

So really, if you want to evaluate an active choices, you would have to look, you would have to know which they guard this information.

1:29:48

You said you never could, you would have to know what were the movies that were offered to you?

1:29:52

What did you take?

1:29:53

You know, what did you do was that that'd be a great website.

1:29:56

I would go to this website all the time.

1:29:58

If it existed, I was turned down in 2005.

1:30:02

I

1:30:02

always

1:30:02

wanted

1:30:02

to

1:30:02

do

1:30:02

a

1:30:02

fantasy,

1:30:02

a

1:30:02

fantasy

1:30:02

actors

1:30:09

thing. You know what, instead of fantasy football where you're like, okay, here are my five women and we're going to see how their movies do and you can take five and we can do pigs.

1:30:17

And the problem is that the metrics aren't exactly the same in sports, you know, you know, it, the LBPs and that's absolute.

1:30:25

Whereas, you know, you can make various arguments about, well, yes, it didn't make as much money, but it's a better movie.

1:30:31

Or I got awards, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:30:33

But ultimately that would be an interesting exercise because it wouldn't reflect, you know, what was actually available.

1:30:40

So that, and somebody wants to told me when I was really young guy named Tom who owned lake shore.

1:30:49

And I did this $2 million movie called going all the way before I did chasing Amy in 94 or something.

1:30:54

And he said, and he had made a bunch of money.

1:30:57

I think a sound furniture in Chicago and gotten to the movie business kind of to, you know, as a sort of quasi retirement, like, ah, try something with this money I made, he ended up winning an Oscar with, with police, with front forgiven, but Tom Rosenberg.

1:31:14

And he said, you know, in your life, you know, at the end of the road, you should be able to look back and say, you know, I missed a bunch of good opportunities.

1:31:26

That's where you want to be.

1:31:28

You want to be there going, ah, I should've taken that one.

1:31:31

I should've taken that one because what that will tell you is you're being discriminating enough.

1:31:37

You're saying Nolan.

1:31:38

Oh, interesting. You're being careful.

1:31:41

Yeah. I thought it was actually, I never forgot it. You know, I didn't understand at the time I was like, say, no, I'm trying to pay the bills.

1:31:46

Like I'm not really in the position to, you know, by the way, time you just paid me $18,000 for four months.

1:31:53

But you know, it was like, okay, so there is some value to, to what you say no to.

1:32:00

And the really difficult thing is that for actors, your whole career is trying to get people to say yes to you get an agent, get an audition, get the job, get the director to like you.

1:32:12

And then one thing happens usually.

1:32:14

And then it's all about what you said.

1:32:18

And you have to radically shift those gears literally from like sixth gear into reverse and go, okay, it's a totally different, okay.

1:32:27

And that's hard and who it's really hard for a lot of times, there's the people around actors like, like agents or managers or producers who, and that's why Patrick is.

1:32:36

So my agent I think is really brilliant because he always got that.

1:32:40

He knows exactly when to chase and when it's time to be discriminating.

1:32:44

But for a lot of people, obviously, whose living is tied up in your living, you know, it's like, just take it, take it, take it more as more do it.

1:32:53

Yeah. They're offered assistance through that. And we've got a commercial opportunity.

1:32:56

That's dog food and you eat out of the dog mall, but I think you look good, you know?

1:33:00

And there, there is, that's a tough thing to get used to trips up a lot of people.

1:33:05

And that was one of the hard things for me because there were movies I did, if that totally.

1:33:09

But I did do some movies from money because it was a lot of money because from my point of view, I was okay, look, my mom made twenty-five thousand dollars a year, teaching school, public school, you know?

1:33:21

And then eventually I think she got to like 35, you know, we'd go up two and a half percent a year.

1:33:25

She worked 30 years.

1:33:27

My dad, I don't know what he, he was a Toyota mechanic janitor out of ours, not long.

1:33:35

We, he had an old 76 red Buick Skylark, which we ended up having.

1:33:41

And

1:33:41

so

1:33:41

when

1:33:41

somebody

1:33:41

would

1:33:41

say

1:33:41

to

1:33:41

me,

1:33:41

$10

1:33:41

million,

1:33:41

which

1:33:41

by

1:33:41

the

1:33:41

way

1:33:41

is

1:33:41

actually,

1:33:41

you

1:33:41

know,

1:33:41

for,

1:33:41

but,

1:33:41

but

1:33:41

certainly

1:33:41

while

1:33:41

the

1:33:41

too,

1:33:41

I

1:33:41

would

1:33:41

just

1:33:41

think

1:33:41

it's

1:33:54

irresponsible.

1:33:54

Like

1:33:54

how

1:33:54

could

1:33:54

I

1:33:54

possibly

1:33:54

face

1:33:54

my

1:33:54

friends

1:33:54

or

1:33:54

my

1:33:54

family

1:33:54

and

1:33:54

tell

1:33:54

them

1:33:54

that

1:33:54

I

1:33:54

said

1:33:54

no

1:33:54

to

1:34:02

that. And it wasn't until I realized that like, actually after you can pay your bills, money, isn't that important?

1:34:10

It doesn't mean it doesn't make you happy, but we collectively share that mythology, that idea that this is it.

1:34:17

If I won the lottery, you asked like, you know, 10 people, what's the one thing that would make you happy.

1:34:22

Probably eight of them would say winning the lottery.

1:34:24

And I've always thought there'd be a great documentary on lottery winners because I bet you find half the number of Right.

1:34:31

We, you talking about how many, how much luck you need with a movie.

1:34:35

And I think sports is like this too, right?

1:34:37

You have a team look at the Patriots this year.

1:34:39

Like if anyone takes back Jones before number 15, this whole Patriot seasons completely different.

1:34:44

You need all of these different pieces. And he did a couple of fridge signings and movies are the same way.

1:34:49

We, we do this rewatch bubbles podcast where we break down these different movies.

1:34:52

And when you're sending the research of how the was made in the casting, what ifs, and it could have been this person and it turned out to be this person instead.

1:35:01

And a lot of times it's the greatest thing for the movie that the first person passed and the second person took it.

1:35:07

You've had a couple like that. Like I still feel like runner runner could have been a good movie.

1:35:11

Like the script was good.

1:35:13

There was something there and it got screwed up for, you know, it got screwed up.

1:35:20

Oh, I know I got screwed up, but I said, but you know, movies do get screwed up for various reasons.

1:35:27

And sometimes they're not as easy to identify.

1:35:29

And like you say, a lot of times people go into it like a movie from the outside when you approach it, a movie that ends up failing, it doesn't look any different from a movie that ends up being successful in changing your life in the sense that you're like smart.

1:35:43

It's interesting, talented people are working on it.

1:35:46

Basically. I think the most accurate way to think of it are like pets.

1:35:50

You know what I mean? Like, okay, the count gets good.

1:35:55

You know, your a favorite, you know, it's a 10 risk deck or 52% favor.

1:36:00

That's about as good as you ever get that game.

1:36:02

So if you're, if you can bet on a 52% favorite, theoretically, mathematically, you should bet all your money, but only if you can bet all your money over 10,000 bets, because 52 comes up as, you know, like barely more than the coin toss, you lose that, you know, five times in a row, but you won't lose it.

1:36:21

You know, you'll, you'll win it exactly 52 times out of a million.

1:36:25

So, you know, you never get a chance probably to make enough movies to fade the variance and the probability of the ways that, which, you know, even big favorites don't always come in, but you still, if it's a bad, not in a monetary way, but like I bet on this filmmaker, I bet on this script, I believe in this and you gotta know it was still a good bet.

1:36:48

It was a good bet. Marty brass had done my favorite movie in that round.

1:36:51

He had, he had done Beverly Hills top.

1:36:54

He had done scent of a woman.

1:36:55

I liked meet Joe Black can.

1:36:57

It was a little long that that was good. And he was a really smart articulate guy, but he was a guy going like, yeah, I've done a lot of commercial movies.

1:37:06

I want to do a, you know, a personal movie, kind of an art film.

1:37:10

And then a bunch of things happen to it that caused it to it didn't work.

1:37:14

There was an old version didn't work. And I realize there's no, there's no Snyder cuts out there that you're going to, you know, I thought that would be great breasts.

1:37:22

I'm not sure we have the same success, but he, he was part, everybody wants, everybody wanted them.

1:37:32

You know what I mean? Like, and I, I had been probable, she was such a big hit that people were like, okay, your studio is just looking at the metric of like, who makes us money?

1:37:42

You know, okay, we'll take this.

1:37:43

And Marty was, was willing to live with me.

1:37:46

And a lot of other people wanted to do it who are not primary.

1:37:49

Like, you know, what I really wanted to do.

1:37:50

And

1:37:50

I

1:37:50

did

1:37:54

it. And, and then because Jennifer, I were in a relationship after the movie came out and initially that relationship got some sort of positive attention.

1:38:02

It was on a lot of, you know, it was on us weekly, which was like, there are only two or three tablets that was the High

1:38:08

dose weekly. At the time you guys were carrying them For

1:38:10

months, they should have sent me stock on winter.

1:38:15

And

1:38:15

they,

1:38:15

and

1:38:15

the

1:38:15

conventional

1:38:15

wisdom

1:38:15

was

1:38:15

like,

1:38:15

oh,

1:38:15

that's

1:38:15

what

1:38:15

they

1:38:15

want

1:38:15

to

1:38:24

see. Because in the original version, it wasn't a love story.

1:38:26

She left in the middle, I died at the end and it was like a kind of a bummer, you know?

1:38:33

And, and it also didn't quite have the catharsis or poignancy that you need to have with, you know, kind of risk splashing in the movie.

1:38:41

And then the studio decided, well, look, Hey, everybody wants them together.

1:38:46

It's all store. And we, we did five weeks to make it into a love story, by which point the us weekly situation, which never bet on like the contemporary tabloid, you know, like tastes because they're going to change next week.

1:39:04

So by the time they had made that everyone was like, we're sick of that.

1:39:08

Why are they in our face every day? Why don't you just shove it down our throat?

1:39:10

But what do you think I publish us weekly?

1:39:13

You know what I mean? No one that was, that was the start of the era of pictures of you getting coffee.

1:39:18

Whichever now we're in like w like year 19 of that could be a coffee table book of just all the time that you're holding a latte.

1:39:29

Well, that ghetto, how fucking interesting is it, man, Let's

1:39:35

get a shot.

1:39:37

People are like, oh, because you, you know, you coordinate and you do this stuff and you go, I remember I looked at an old clip recently, like access Hollywood from that time.

1:39:45

And it was pat O'Brien broad who had segwayed into working for entertainment, journalism after his step with the NBA.

1:39:53

And he said, he was like, well, who wants privacy going out to dinner?

1:39:59

And

1:39:59

I

1:39:59

thought

1:39:59

like,

1:39:59

oh,

1:39:59

so

1:39:59

don't

1:39:59

go

1:39:59

to

1:39:59

a

1:40:03

restaurant. That's clearly my house.

1:40:08

Yeah. So then I literally spent years where I was like, okay, I'm just, if the message is your life is going to be this, unless you make your life utterly pedestrian.

1:40:17

Okay. I can do that because I like to take my kids to school.

1:40:22

I'll get coffee. I'll go home.

1:40:24

I'll do my work. And that wasn't nonetheless, it was still like, well, look, he gets coffee.

1:40:28

And then that's At

1:40:31

an expensive coffee maker. What does he need to go to Starbucks for?

1:40:34

Shouldn't you have?

1:40:36

I don't like those companies. I, I, I mean to say until they pay me and make me official, but there is a brand of coffee that I grew up with.

1:40:46

Like, you know, that's what I like, and you know, and I like Jack in the box too.

1:40:53

You know what I mean? There are things that I, and, and, but just the idea that that's like, and again, it's some of this idea of like, oh, you're trying to show us that, that you drink coffee.

1:41:05

I'm really not. I really wish you would just not be there.

1:41:09

Coffee. I don't want you there. I don't need that.

1:41:11

It's not fun for me.

1:41:13

You know, I don't, I'm not trying to get known as a guy who, I mean, there's people I meet who know that order.

1:41:28

I mean, you've had one of the strangest celebrity experiences.

1:41:30

I think of anybody because not only the ebbs and flows, but you've been in some big celebrity relationships.

1:41:35

You just had it this week.

1:41:37

You talked about it on Jimmy's show last night, you do a two hour stern interview, which I'm trying to steer toward topics that you didn't cover in that.

1:41:44

But you, you talked about your wife and stuff gets aggregated from it.

1:41:50

And all of a sudden, it seems like you're shitting on your ex-wife and if you actually read it carefully, you weren't.

1:41:55

So you talked about it on Jimmy show. I don't want to go over too much, but my default is we, we have a daughter that's basically are the same age and any time, something like that happens to you, I was thinking like, what would that be like for his kids when they read something like that?

1:42:08

And how would I deal with it if it were me.

1:42:11

And I had to talk to my kids about, Hey, this happened, I have to explain it.

1:42:15

So what was that part of the process? Like, No,

1:42:18

because I've spent so much time dealing with the other stuff, which was initially hurtful.

1:42:23

Like, don't say that on shallow superficial, or don't say that about, and then that's when point, I felt like people are always going to stay with it's about my work that will define at the end of the day.

1:42:34

That's what I have control over.

1:42:36

And so I really kind of worked hard to sort of just get free of that.

1:42:40

But then when I had kids, that's really the only thing, if those are gonna touch my children and my ex-wife, and I think it's really, really important.

1:42:52

I mean, I don't know how else to define someone's character at its essence, how they treat the parents of their kids.

1:43:00

And not only that, but what was depressing about that.

1:43:05

But one thing is just to give my kids the impression that I've ever say anything negative, it is deeply responsible, wrong.

1:43:13

And the worst thing that could happen to me, because I don't believe in it.

1:43:19

I don't think it's true. And I'm acutely aware of the degree to which children, particularly of divorced parents, but any children, one of the most basic fundamental needs just to know that their parents want it.

1:43:32

And it's certainly the least I can do.

1:43:35

And in fact, that happens to be true. I respect her mum a great deal.

1:43:38

We've worked really hard to go through this process carefully and you know, so, so, and also it's not even read it.

1:43:47

It's like, there's an interesting link.

1:43:49

I think from show the next day is about 12 minutes and maybe I'll, I'll send it to you and you can put it up on it's probably available or he analyzes.

1:43:57

And he does a much better job of me that I, the, the difference between what I said when our conversation, and it's a two hour conversation, it's not like, you know, you don't get a chance to get the, just where over and over and over.

1:44:14

I talk about the pain and difficulty of divorce and why is it painful in my case?

1:44:22

And here's my ex-wife principally because you know, children experienced pain and you have to weigh that against what will be the difficulties they have.

1:44:33

If we stay in this marriage through no fault, you know, the idea that first of all, it offends me that I'm, I would be so stupid immature to think that anyone else is responsible for what me drinking, like put your hand.

1:44:50

And like, that doesn't mean, okay, let's get a real clear, everything I've ever done good or bad.

1:44:54

And in the case of the good I've often benefited from smart people.

1:44:59

Okay? So of all the things that I regret, I did this come to terms with that.

1:45:04

And when I've heard people, I make them nuts.

1:45:06

Listen, I don't have any confusion about whose fault.

1:45:10

I certainly don't attribute that to my ex wife and the idea that I would cast me in a light that is a worse insult than anything anybody has ever said about me because I, and I've spent years and years giving interviews and talking about this.

1:45:32

I mean, LinkedIn, Diane. So, I mean, even a cursory, Google will reveal a lit of instances where I say precisely the opposite of that, which is why When

1:45:45

you know, it's snowballing and there's like that half hour there where it's like, oh shit, this is actually going to become a thing.

1:45:51

What's your instinct?

1:45:52

Like, do you want to like almost go on Twitter and try to stop it?

1:45:56

Or do you just like, oh shit, this next 24 hours, The

1:45:59

problem is it's not a, a stackable thing because it's root because the people who, who, who decided to pull a phrase, you know, I have this conversation and isolated in a Headlands, the clickbait practice itself as well.

1:46:15

And I don't think there's any changing it because it's just how people make money.

1:46:19

And the hardest thing to get people to do is to work, you know, in a way that is contrary to needs their pocket.

1:46:25

They make money this way, right?

1:46:27

And we've all clicked. You won't believe what this, he said about such as action.

1:46:31

You click on it and you go like, but they didn't say, why did I even, but you realize that's not the point was to get you to go there because now they've already made money.

1:46:39

So they don't care if you're satisfied by what they say, they care that they successfully lured you to their platform because they measure eyeballs.

1:46:47

And according to the number of eyeballs that come, they sell ads and they make more money.

1:46:51

So that practice has just metastasized and become less and less responsible.

1:46:55

It used to be, you had to sort of be vaguely connected to the truth and now it's hold them in graph.

1:46:59

What's the most. And I can tell when I do interviews, oftentimes the whole goal of the person they're sort of listening to you and going what can I use?

1:47:09

Like the, can you say something provocative?

1:47:11

Can you say, you know, like that's the whole goal, whether it's the editor telling them that's the what's going to make them the most, they don't really care about acting or your process or the movie or any of this shit.

1:47:21

They're just waiting to see if you can blow yourself up so they can make money.

1:47:25

That was the worst thing about when you came on my HBO show, when we dated, I thought we had a really good interview.

1:47:30

Yeah. But we were talking about the flake gate and you got, But

1:47:39

really, I mean, again, I don't, it's just, I don't think people really looked at that and thought he's drunk.

1:47:45

They didn't, you know, I wasn't very animated and continue to be like, Yeah,

1:47:50

but we taught it for, like, we talked for like 50 minutes that day.

1:47:53

And that the flaky conversation we had was at least 10 or 12.

1:47:57

And at one point you got super animated and that was the part people cut.

1:48:00

But I mean, I was there. I was like, it was 10 in the morning.

1:48:04

He was definitely not drunk because people ask me what's going on with that flag.

1:48:07

I was like, I don't know. He flew cross country before and Nothing's

1:48:14

going on. I get him, all the things I care about.

1:48:19

And that's in fact what I have been drunk in the past, you would know it because I'd be served just like my tendency was to get just very quiet.

1:48:28

I wasn't like a crazy drunk, right?

1:48:31

Yeah. Oh, some people probably the point is you're right.

1:48:34

They it's it's what can we seize upon?

1:48:36

And it really doesn't matter whether you think it's true back, that's totally irrelevant.

1:48:40

It's like, can we plausibly use this?

1:48:43

And so, or can we be sued?

1:48:46

That's their ultimate defense while you can't Sue us, because the words, the words are there, but you're supposed to be better.

1:48:52

The tenants of journalism have to do with truth, accountability, and impartiality.

1:48:58

And that's what you're supposed to have done in college to learn.

1:49:02

Well, we lost, we lost a lot of good.

1:49:03

We lost a lot of good interviews with you over the years.

1:49:06

Cause the ebb and flow of this. Cause I think you get, you get disenchanted by the whole machine sometimes.

1:49:13

And then you go, then you come back and do it again.

1:49:16

I like to talk to people.

1:49:18

I like to talk about this stuff.

1:49:19

There are movies that I'm really proud of and I want to promote.

1:49:23

And inevitably something happens like this.

1:49:25

I think, fuck like really?

1:49:27

What's I, maybe I should just do the robotic thing or just not do it.

1:49:32

I don't know if I don't do it, you know you more.

1:49:34

And then of course the illusion is that there's a win.

1:49:38

You can't man. You're never going to do you read the robotic answers.

1:49:42

They're going to say he's staff and fake and robot, blah, blah, blah.

1:49:46

The only win is to create a totally artificial life on social media, relentless, the advertise that, and sort of hope people believe.

1:49:57

And even then, that's not something I'm comfortable with because I really do believe in being honest.

1:50:02

And I think so.

1:50:05

So you have to accept that this kind of misinterpretation it's happened to me and worse has happened to friends.

1:50:10

I know worse punishment for no offense, you know?

1:50:15

And in this case, the one thing, the reason why this doesn't bother me on a personal level is that it's so obvious to anybody who reads this.

1:50:22

Not one person heard the interview, anybody who listens to the bad symptoms, it's not fair.

1:50:28

So maybe it becomes a moment where people sort of go like, okay, we can't go that far.

1:50:33

Howard's very, and I'm really grateful to him because I think it was such a, he's not just asked for a guy who lies.

1:50:38

If anybody has a reputation for being honest, it's our, sir, I ain't want him to great lakes.

1:50:44

So was really clear specific terms like both what it was obvious.

1:50:50

I was saying why, what, what it meant, how was really a positive and a loving thing and how reckless it is for people to just kind of blindly blow past that because they feel like they can make a few bucks after the first one to mischaracterize the story.

1:51:08

And once one person does it, that's the other problem with clickbait?

1:51:11

That kind of thing is that you then in a sense, you know, allow others to advocate their journalistic responsibility because once you've printed it, they don't have to just say, well, they said it, they probably did the research.

1:51:23

They did the due diligence. I'm deciding them my hands, it's a punch file.

1:51:26

And The

1:51:29

first story, the first story becomes the story.

1:51:31

And the second, third, fourth, fifth stories are not the story.

1:51:35

They fade each way.

1:51:38

Exactly. And also people just, and this is one of the sad things about technology is we can get so much of it.

1:51:44

People mostly see the headlines.

1:51:46

They don't have a bunch of times.

1:51:48

First of all, the stores aren't that long.

1:51:50

They're not that detailed. They don't care about that much.

1:51:52

They want to get the title up, get it up there.

1:51:54

It's new content. There's a lot of pressure to do that because it don't generate content oh, elsewhere.

1:51:58

They want, you know, it's part of their whole corporate strategy.

1:52:01

And so it's, and I'm guilty of the same big, I kind of skimmed through, all right, what's the apple news, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:52:07

And I'm just as guilty as going.

1:52:09

So-and-so did this thing on. They're crazy, you know, and I keep going.

1:52:11

And that's why it really is incumbent on the journalists, not to tell anybody their job, but you know, whereas the state first amendment journalism, the freedom of the press, kind of a fundamental aspect of our democracy.

1:52:24

And if you don't take it seriously, then I think in cases of celebrities, there's a sense of like, you know, fuck, you know what I mean?

1:52:33

They have to, what did they do? It's not like the vice president, but you know, my dad was like, wait things.

1:52:38

My dad taught me was, and Jerry speck and other people worked with, if you're going to do your job, it doesn't matter.

1:52:48

You do it.

1:52:50

Well, you do it really well.

1:52:52

But at the front of my fathers, they tie, you know, and he would always come over to the house everywhere.

1:53:01

We went, he would look at the tile and the grouting and stuff.

1:53:04

And it was trying to praise.

1:53:06

You got a guy this lazy right there.

1:53:08

You see how it doesn't blend with, you know what I mean?

1:53:10

Because he cared about what he did. He took a tremendous amount of pride in it.

1:53:13

And I always remembered that. Cause I never looked before I thought about the tile or thought about the person who put the tile in and what their attitude was.

1:53:19

But whatever it is, that's done.

1:53:20

You notice this as an adult, particularly like some people care, some people really meaningful do the job, right?

1:53:27

And some people were just trying to get over. Some people trying to get ahead and some people will shoot you for $50, a liquor store, your daughter and your kids and all that stuff.

1:53:38

You tell them that to Google you, how do you handle that?

1:53:39

Tell

1:53:39

them

1:53:39

I

1:53:39

tell

1:53:39

them

1:53:39

the

1:53:45

truth.

1:53:45

And

1:53:45

it

1:53:45

requires

1:53:45

periodically

1:53:45

having

1:53:45

to

1:53:45

it's

1:53:45

the

1:53:45

part

1:53:45

of

1:53:45

this

1:53:45

is

1:53:45

why

1:53:45

I'm

1:53:45

having

1:53:45

this

1:53:57

conversation. Otherwise I'd say, oh, but it means because they don't, you know, they just think they of course believe what they see, whether it's on YouTube or on those feed or whatever that they get there.

1:54:19

They

1:54:19

imagine

1:54:19

that

1:54:19

if

1:54:19

somebody

1:54:19

wrote

1:54:19

it

1:54:19

probably

1:54:19

is

1:54:24

true. Now they've been culturally to understand that there are lies that get printed because they've had the experience of growing up and going to the grocery store and looking at seeing if their mom was pregnant, are you pregnant?

1:54:39

No. And then it became a running joke in our family. Like we know that if everything was true, you'd have 13 brothers and sisters.

1:54:44

That's what they get.

1:54:46

They get that it's dishonest.

1:54:48

But nonetheless, in cases like this really pertain to as me, it's like, you know, I'm like, yeah, wow.

1:54:56

You know, if somebody wants to pile on a movie or something about I'll just come up with it.

1:55:01

Yeah. Last work.

1:55:02

I'm disappointed. I feel bad because I think it's a good opportunity to model for them.

1:55:06

This is how you deal with discipline.

1:55:08

It's okay. You can get, this is not going to end Jews at the end of the world.

1:55:11

We look at it. What kind of take from it?

1:55:14

How do I move on? You don't lie about it.

1:55:16

She doesn't make it the end all be all.

1:55:18

But if it's something that could potentially, if they believed it, caused them to start to understand what they know, they see their mom and me respecting one, another caring about one another treating one another.

1:55:36

Well, I can imagine that it would be very hurtful to see, oh my that's not what he did.

1:55:42

He said something. Cause they know about bullying.

1:55:44

You know, about people talk about people's backs, their adolescents.

1:55:46

You know, they see that every day.

1:55:48

That's exactly what I would never want to model for them, which is why, whether they are aware of it or not they to do that one thing, particularly as you say, like if you want to be reckless and irresponsible and just chase money and be utterly indifferent to the truth in terms of your relative to what it is, you report as truthful, really think about whether or not they have, that's all, you know, like at least go that far is this fair to their kids because you know, I chose this, this line of work.

1:56:21

I didn't think it would be like this, but I knew, you know, Sean Penn, Madonna Fataar I knew that was a possibility would come true.

1:56:28

But I knew if it did, it was the price that I entered into that bargain willingly.

1:56:33

Children just get born into a life.

1:56:36

Don't ask to be a celebrity's kid that arrested me in the fucking to have their photograph taken.

1:56:41

Then our estimates separated out from their peers, even when it's a good thing.

1:56:44

You know, my, one of my kids said, oh my teacher just, you know, yeah.

1:56:48

I had a whole thing in front of the class by movie and this and that, I, you know, I was like, was he, what was, it was about, there was only like the movie, but it was just like, it didn't matter.

1:56:58

It was like, don't make me separate from this don't this to me, change my social life.

1:57:03

And adults can be really about that.

1:57:06

And I can be very sensitive, you know, because I want, despite the fact that it's probably an unrealistic expectation, it is like, is that the most normal, healthy, best life they can.

1:57:19

And it really, really pains me because my own father, at times it was not mine.

1:57:25

That's what it was. I being an alcoholic.

1:57:28

So I had times where, where I felt barest really, you know, my old man comes into base with a little league game and, you know, talking to me, you know, telling me how to pitch and what pitch to throw, you know, I was playing third base and you know, that kind of thing when you're 12 years old.

1:57:47

Yeah. So I just think that I'm never going to do.

1:57:49

And so for somebody to read it very detailed, very in depth interview how much and how painful it is, but it's mischaracterized.

1:58:03

And then to go do precisely that thing.

1:58:06

Not only put me in the position in effect of generating the feeling of my kids, that I felt on third base, but like that, that's not me.

1:58:17

I'm not pitching, I'm not pitching, you know, is I'm

1:58:26

switching to movies. Cause we got to talk about the new one, but you made two good movies in a row that weren't necessarily successful by normal standards.

1:58:36

But I don't even know what the normal standards are anymore.

1:58:39

Like the way back was an excellent movie.

1:58:43

I actually thought, I, I genuine, I'm not saying this to suck up to, you know, I wouldn't, I genuinely thought he should've gotten nominated for an Oscar for that.

1:58:51

I've

1:58:51

had

1:58:51

a

1:58:51

couple

1:58:51

bad

1:58:51

ones

1:58:51

over

1:58:54

there. I actually thought you had a chance to get nominated for an Oscar.

1:58:58

You didn't. But I think that movie really stands up as like a modern sports movie.

1:59:04

We've talked about this on this podcast sometimes where there's like the different areas of sports movies, right?

1:59:09

And this is we're now in this era of real movies that happened to be about sports.

1:59:13

That movie has this conventional sports movie set up and you win the big game and it's like, cool.

1:59:18

And then it just goes off a cliff for the next 20 minutes.

1:59:21

And it was the most, I think the most personal movie you probably made, I think you were great in it.

1:59:27

It does fine. It do great.

1:59:29

Cause we have a pandemic, there's no movie theater or really one week of release for it.

1:59:33

And then That was a really interesting movie and it ties into the, the other movies that you're, that you're referring to and exact same thing happened, which is what made me realize the business has totally changed and that I have to change with it.

1:59:45

You know, I love the way back.

1:59:48

It was very personal to me, everybody invested it and believed in it.

1:59:53

And I wanted a chance to, to just selfishly as an actor, I was like, this is going to be that she has to do something I haven't done before.

2:00:01

And I think it could be really personally rewarding.

2:00:04

And we did it and I could tell already, like the business was changing as it was coming to release was like, people don't want us to see a movie about a guy whose kid dies descends into alcoholism and then tries to find some hope through this basketball.

2:00:22

It just was too difficult. And that people just adults just weren't going to those movies for ready.

2:00:27

Then it comes out the week later they shut the theaters.

2:00:31

That's COVID and I thought like, you know, of course, sort of self pityingly like, wow, this is my luck.

2:00:37

Like the movie I really love.

2:00:39

And they shut the theaters.

2:00:42

And this is interesting moment where all of a sudden it's on demand.

2:00:47

We're going to put on streaming in two weeks. So everybody who's captive audience, who's sitting at home in lockdown, like what's new, what's on what happened?

2:00:54

That's the new movie that they just saw an ad for.

2:00:56

And it's all. And I do think that that was the beginning of this whole day and date thing.

2:01:00

Like, wait a minute, there's a lot of value to streaming movies, right?

2:01:03

When people are aware of them and it did really well, like of all my movies, I probably got more sort of just my, you know, empirical subjective level, like more emails and texts about people like the movie then, you know, movies that did you have gigantic box office that may go like those buddies, but still it was like, people clearly saw it.

2:01:22

And then I thought this is, I'm so much happier that people saw it, you know, and their TD, however big it wasn't, it's not like the 11 inch black and white that I had at my dad's, you know, it's 180 bucks for a 65 inch wall.

2:01:38

You know, you can get pretty good televisions and see them in ways where you can appreciate what's going on.

2:01:44

And then I just thought like this isn't bad at all.

2:01:48

I'm really glad people saw it. You know?

2:01:50

And, and when it came to the last tool, I did think maybe this has enough genre stuff, enough big screen stuff with dueling and fighting.

2:02:00

And I always viewed that movie similarly to the town where you sort of wrap a character story in the candy shell of like, yeah, people are going to bludge in one another and jewel to the death.

2:02:11

But if that's what you want to go to the movies, where are you going to get that?

2:02:15

Because you mentioned the wisdom is like you got that action or nobody wants to see it.

2:02:19

They're not wrong. You'll get good. Netflix stops.

2:02:21

But

2:02:21

even

2:02:21

though

2:02:21

I

2:02:21

understand

2:02:21

what

2:02:21

it

2:02:21

would

2:02:21

be,

2:02:21

shit,

2:02:21

that's

2:02:21

not

2:02:21

a

2:02:30

mystery. I was, I obviously knew it was dark, but it is, it strikes me like when they it's good.

2:02:39

I know the movie worked Friday, screened it.

2:02:42

We had tested it.

2:02:43

We knew that audiences enjoyed it when they saw it.

2:02:47

And so that I was kind of like, but very quickly I thought like, oh, this is so genius.

2:02:56

And there's no way anyone could, that must see it, but it should have been a, it should have done better numbers than any other world.

2:03:03

It would have. I done this enough to know like a movie that works well enough that has, that should do better than whatever minuscule numbers it did.

2:03:11

And it just told me like, this audience is done.

2:03:15

They're never voted.

2:03:16

At least for your, they want to pause.

2:03:19

They want to get up and take a leak three times.

2:03:21

They want to finish it tomorrow.

2:03:22

You know, they want to be able to stop for dinner.

2:03:25

You know, me, I actually do the same thing Nine

2:03:29

years ago that movie's gone girl. Right?

2:03:31

And it's that adult movie that you go with your, you know, it's a couples night or whatever it is.

2:03:37

And I don't think gone girl would work now either as a, as a movie theater experience Argo

2:03:44

all

2:03:44

the

2:03:44

streamers,

2:03:44

for

2:03:49

sure. None of them.

2:03:52

So the only thing you can do is just make good movies and hope, hope, hope people see them.

2:03:57

I don't even know what the option is.

2:03:59

No, but the good news, the silver lining is actually, if you look at the numbers in terms of how many movies people are watching, there's much now, so you have to control for the epidemic.

2:04:08

Obviously that's people are home, but still those numbers have skyrocket.

2:04:11

Like people are watching and watch and watch and watch.

2:04:14

They can't spill the demand. They have to get people to see new stuff.

2:04:17

So people are watching stuff.

2:04:19

You just have to understand that, like this business has changed since the beginning of time it was vaudeville silent movies.

2:04:25

It was longer silent movies. It was talkies, it was color movies.

2:04:28

And there was telling me what was going, destroyed the business, you know?

2:04:30

And then, you know, it was digital and it's always changed and it's always required evolution, but what's consistent is that people are interested in storytelling in particular kind of storytelling.

2:04:41

Well, one that sort of, you know, and I know you guys were like, Hey, you know, I like your fan, but like, you know, I'm like doing the HVAC all day tired.

2:04:52

I don't, I don't want to go home theater.

2:04:57

See some, like, I just want to see like the good guys win.

2:05:01

Really blows them up.

2:05:03

They got a funny line and it's like, I can kind of just let it go.

2:05:07

You know, I get that.

2:05:10

That's really valid. And I've made movies that we're trying to do that.

2:05:13

I'm not that interested in doing that.

2:05:15

Now, as I'm older, what I'm interested is doing the other kind of movies on the audience for that movies is there.

2:05:20

And in fact, the streamers can find them more efficiently because they know what you've watched before.

2:05:26

And there is a real commonality to, if you like this show like that, that's why the whole genius feature on music.

2:05:32

All that stuff works. Like not always, sometimes you're like, I like this movie too, you know?

2:05:36

And they're trying to suggest you a new movie, but it's effective.

2:05:40

And so the email directly that your home screen looks different than mine.

2:05:44

Even the post for a movie, like they'll use a different poster for maybe probably you or I would get the same, but like for somebody who has really different tastes, they'll get a very different poster, maybe with different cast, maybe with a whole different look.

2:05:59

So you do these, all these shoes, you think like, well, wait a minute, what movie are we promoting?

2:06:03

Because there used to be a unit to the idea of what we were, and now it's like, we're promoting a bunch of different stuff.

2:06:09

Depends is watch. And so they're good at that.

2:06:13

They can find that eyes that I want that eyes to see it.

2:06:15

And I think those opportunities are still there. And as long as I can continue to do it well and actually satisfy that audience and have them feel like I'm glad I watched that last tool.

2:06:25

Then the silver lining of this is it came out and it was successful on streaming.

2:06:29

Ironically, one of the big metrics is like, was it the number one pirated movie?

2:06:33

Which you could evidently find out?

2:06:35

I don't know if they sent you a prize for that, but, So

2:06:40

what do you expect for the tender bar? Because really well reviewed.

2:06:42

It's really good.

2:06:44

What is that movie now in December during a pandemic?

2:06:49

When people go, they'll go to the theater.

2:06:51

I feel like people will see it.

2:06:54

I think some people will, but I don't know how many screens it's on.

2:06:57

I know that just broadly speaking, Amazon's not in the theatrical world.

2:07:03

We

2:07:03

got

2:07:03

everybody,

2:07:03

we

2:07:03

saw

2:07:03

them

2:07:03

fridges

2:07:03

with

2:07:03

some

2:07:03

books

2:07:03

and

2:07:13

Amazon. Now you look at their market cap before the pandemic pandemic.

2:07:16

It's astonished Amazon, apple, and Netflix, have you just Google like their market capitalization.

2:07:24

It's

2:07:24

like,

2:07:24

I'm

2:07:24

used

2:07:24

to

2:07:24

a

2:07:29

rock. You know, companies, don't just like, you know, go five X and value 10 X and value three years, especially the ones that are already worth 200 billion.

2:07:37

So to get that kind of growth for those kinds of companies is a seismic event in the sort of corporate wall street world.

2:07:45

And I think the way that Amazon has been successful is by recognizing we don't have to be books.

2:07:50

We can do books and records and books.

2:07:53

And, and then I just started a little wiser and everything and it was everything.

2:07:56

And it wasn't it, the pandemic, that was just the way we got stuck because you were supposed to meet for touch other humans.

2:08:01

And, and so they, I think they like movies that I've made in my business.

2:08:06

But I suspect if you looked at a pie chart of their revenue, it would be like, you wouldn't go, go ahead and get these home screens.

2:08:16

We sent me out. People already might as well show up movies too.

2:08:19

And see if we can add to our bottom line in that way.

2:08:23

So one are the most sort of, they're the most sort of not detached, but they're the best example of a business that was doing something totally different that then says, let's add this to, and as such, I think most of what they're interested in and it's just, it doesn't bring us to people use prime.

2:08:40

Did they upgrade the prime? It bring it. I don't even think they're in the new subscribers business because I don't think there's any new subscribers left Netflix justice as, and they used to just mail out DVD.

2:08:52

It was a company that would mail you a DVD and David Fisher house alive.

2:08:58

And all of a sudden it was like, oh, they have their own show.

2:09:01

So maybe I should have, or associates or subscribed to Netflix on those merits.

2:09:06

Because then they had transitioned to guess a platform.

2:09:08

They were streaming, but they was doing everybody else's mood.

2:09:11

And, and then at the same time that everyone else realized why are we giving them money to stream our movies and started calling all their movies back.

2:09:18

They want to build up their library because they want to establish this brand.

2:09:22

So they're also not theatrically oriented, although they do theatrical releases that they, you know, sometimes there is qualifying releases, you know, robot, if it was only on that, right?

2:09:35

So they, it needs to be theaters and people like me.

2:09:39

I

2:09:39

go

2:09:39

see

2:09:39

the

2:09:39

Krispies

2:09:39

in

2:09:39

theaters,

2:09:39

even

2:09:39

the

2:09:39

last,

2:09:39

only

2:09:39

because

2:09:39

I

2:09:39

want

2:09:39

to

2:09:39

see

2:09:39

Paul's

2:09:39

loop,

2:09:39

but

2:09:39

like

2:09:39

the

2:09:39

value

2:09:39

isn't

2:09:39

for

2:09:50

them. I think they view it as kind of an ancillary aspect.

2:09:52

So you're gonna have a bifurcated, the actual business, which consists probably of 40, 45 movies that get released a year that are all intellectual property that you already recognize.

2:10:01

They're either heavily branded equals, or if they're such high concept that they believe, you know, kids will see it, which is you've already won.

2:10:11

I think you've already won.

2:10:13

I

2:10:13

think

2:10:13

you've

2:10:13

already

2:10:17

won. I think the eyeballs are going to be there and the items are going to be there.

2:10:21

Yeah. I'll pretend I'm totally happy.

2:10:23

Like Amazon's a great laugh because it would be an incredible hub to try to convince people to come out.

2:10:29

They actually see it on the first weekend in the numbers that would need, but I don't think it will be difficult at all for Amazon to figure out who's up to like this movie and have enough of them watch it.

2:10:39

So that according to their calculus, it's a profitable living to have made.

2:10:42

And so, yeah, you went and by the way, the thing about streaming is, you know, their economics are really different because it's about half as expensive for them to make the movie because they don't have the PNA costs.

2:10:54

Distribution has where you make them wait for $75 million, then you gotta put another 75 it's theatrically releasing it.

2:11:03

And if you're not sure that will be work, you got 75 of the line, you know, it's kind of like doubling the six weeks here and now you've got twice as much.

2:11:13

And if it only does 40, the theaters keep 20, you know, now you've lost a massive amount of money and you don't have that level of risk for streaming, which is why they're able to, you know, make stuff more broadly.

2:11:24

So yeah, th the very short answer, which I'm very bad at is it's probably good for me.

2:11:30

It just kind of, I'm about to make, are getting made more and the streamers do a good job of showing Why

2:11:35

aren't you directing what's going on with you?

2:11:37

So

2:11:37

when

2:11:37

does

2:11:37

that

2:11:37

come

2:11:41

back? What you said like five years from now Wellbeing,

2:11:46

but my son's nine.

2:11:50

Gotcha.

2:11:53

It turned out a bunch of stuff.

2:11:54

It was like, we love it, but you got to shoot it in Bulgaria.

2:11:56

Well, okay.

2:11:58

You got to love it with someone else because I'm just not doing it.

2:12:02

And I got real comfortable with it can be any, can we say that Kate, I'm not leaving here.

2:12:07

It's too important for my children to work for me, even if it's Boston or some LA, some Washington, some Turkey they're like Argo.

2:12:18

I don't really know how to do it well, but not good enough and cannot spend a day doing it.

2:12:24

I got to put in the 15 hours to make sure it's great, or at least as good as it can be.

2:12:28

And so if I found that if I had like a pool of men and was like, let's do something kind of, you know, something like I did a movie with Terrence Malick, that was a sort of an impressionistic movie, but it was $10 million movie.

2:12:40

We actually shot a film. We shot in Oklahoma for five or six weeks.

2:12:44

You look great. She was shot at, and if like mad at her actors, like, you know, Christmas scene or Lily, Ray for CLIA, Deval was like, let's do like a privatization on, will be about, you know, that takes place in kind of one location.

2:12:59

We can shoot it in LA for five weeks and we get home by dinner.

2:13:02

And that kind of thing I would do that I would direct that I

2:13:05

was going to say, why don't you do the Sandler move, where you all go to Hawaii and you filmed some romcom in Hawaii for two bucks.

2:13:12

That'd be great with all the family.

2:13:14

That'd be, I go to Hawaii debate.

2:13:18

I have my friend's like, no, I don't want to go through Y, But

2:13:21

by the way, when that happens with your kids, where all of a sudden, they just don't want, I know it's probably happened with your daughter.

2:13:27

I know it's happened with mine where it's like, I'm just not in the loop anymore.

2:13:29

They don't want to hang out. That's it. It's

2:13:31

over what I like. You know, we got that chutes ladders and play games on my phone.

2:13:40

Yeah. Hey. Yeah. You want to close the door?

2:13:46

Yeah. Okay, good. Great. Hey, what are you listening to that song that really slapped soon is that, oh my God.

2:13:54

Okay. I'll leave. You know, why don't you go get photographed.

2:13:57

You

2:13:57

want

2:13:57

to

2:13:57

come

2:13:57

to

2:13:57

the

2:14:00

premiere. You want to come look at this. You want to come to the concert.

2:14:02

You want to know I'm doing something with B.

2:14:06

You talk about, you talk about ego blows.

2:14:09

There's no bigger ego blow than when your kid suddenly doesn't want to hang out with you all the time.

2:14:13

My kids like really thoroughly keep me humble.

2:14:17

I gave my daughter the script for attended by which I got her to read only because she had been such a great consultant on the last or so, because she's at she's so acutely aware of every little nuance and aspect she's probably had.

2:14:33

And she's really aware of all the, the sort of social political aspects of not only how might something reasonably interpreted something touches on sensitive issues, but how could somebody characterize something whip that didn't intend to be that as that?

2:14:49

So I actually nevermind all the consultants.

2:14:52

We worked with rain and we worked with Gina Davis says to me, a lot of people, my daughter wasn't incredibly valuable.

2:14:58

So, and it was a joy for me.

2:15:00

I was like heavy. I was like, would you read this again?

2:15:02

I look at the gender roles issue.

2:15:04

It wasn't said that, just mark it up.

2:15:08

And so she got used to reading my stuff and I said, Hey, would you look at this, this tender brush script?

2:15:13

And she ran out and she said, well, you're finally playing your fantasy character.

2:15:18

Somebody who stands around and lectures children, they have to listen.

2:15:25

Yeah. Sort of, I guess that is what I love about it, but it's great.

2:15:29

And the thing about having your kids be able to do that shit, it's like, I I've heard, I know sometimes people take it personally.

2:15:36

It's hard not to, but like, it actually is such a healthy, good thing.

2:15:39

It's a sign that your kids don't worry about shooting your, they know you're there for them, no matter what, you're going to stop, loving them.

2:15:45

They don't have that fraught fractured, delicate, scary relationship with you.

2:15:52

They just know that you're just that you're just a big Oak tree in the backyard.

2:15:56

We gotta be there. If I want to climb on you, we'll load for that now.

2:15:59

But you know, and I can carve my name menu, you and do whatever I can stand your leaves and do whatever I can and you are going to be there.

2:16:05

And I think that's the most healthy, effective way to help kids understand and internalize the voice of the parent, which people really need.

2:16:15

As they grow older, to feel like I have work, I can do hard things, you know, not to do the participation trophy and you're good at everything.

2:16:21

And everything's okay because they know your lines.

2:16:23

You know what I mean? My daughter was nine years old.

2:16:25

She didn't win a game, but her basketball, he, at the end of the year, they got these trophies and she was sort of frowning.

2:16:31

And I said, what's wrong?

2:16:32

And she was like, dad, we didn't win any games.

2:16:35

I said, yeah.

2:16:37

She said, I mean, so why are we getting trophies?

2:16:40

This is the windlass trophy.

2:16:43

I was like, maybe they give out prizes Atlas.

2:16:47

That's rare that also doesn't happen that often you did something notable.

2:16:54

But you know, the point is they know, they know when the things are good.

2:16:57

They know when something is bad. That's why I have to dress.

2:16:59

If something comes out of the tablet app to stop and go, Hey guys, I noticed probably by this is bullshit.

2:17:05

Here's the story. Here's what happened here.

2:17:07

The truth you can always ask me.

2:17:09

You can always ask your mom, you know, the world around you is true.

2:17:12

You're not always going to know about that, about the outside world.

2:17:15

And to hope that they develop some comfort in that.

2:17:18

That's, that's the best I can do, you know?

2:17:21

All right. Last thing before we go, other than Goodwill hunting too, I think you should start seriously thinking about, so checking will 25, 27 years later To

2:17:31

California and ended up on mass.

2:17:33

He's one of those guys playing speed, chess at the cinema.

2:17:39

All right, this is this one. That would be a good one.

2:17:43

Drama. Alright. This is going to get aggravated, right?

2:17:45

I did this with Tom Hanks and people really liked it.

2:17:48

Ben Affleck's favorite, top three, Ben Affleck movies.

2:17:55

So I'll set it up again.

2:17:57

Ben Affleck's top three.

2:17:59

Favorite Ben Affleck movies.

2:18:00

What are they right now in 2021?

2:18:05

Doesn't Matter. Oh, that's interesting.

2:18:06

I

2:18:06

think

2:18:06

it

2:18:06

can

2:18:06

be

2:18:10

either. Let's say either.

2:18:11

I

2:18:11

swear

2:18:11

to

2:18:11

God,

2:18:11

that's

2:18:11

my

2:18:16

three. Are we match?

2:18:18

Where's Bob Eubanks, I think.

2:18:22

Are we connected? That's

2:18:23

the three. I think the town has had an unbelievable kind of, kind of run since it came out because of cable and streaming and you know how you know it's true because it's always on it'll pop on Netflix.

2:18:38

All of a sudden it's their new on Netflix.

2:18:39

It'll be on HBO.

2:18:42

It just keeps going.

2:18:44

It's not going to stop.

2:18:48

The director said about that movie. Like, no, one's going to talk about this movie in 10 years.

2:18:52

I felt hurt by that because I thought, Hey, what am I supposed to like put each other down on some level?

2:18:57

And the irony was like, I mean, it's got me 10 years later here.

2:19:02

We are talking about it. I mean, granted it's be tough.

2:19:04

But the experience I had in making them wear the most, What

2:19:09

was the gone girl experience? I don't know that story.

2:19:11

Oh,

2:19:11

my

2:19:11

I've

2:19:11

gone

2:19:11

girls

2:19:11

by

2:19:16

three. I screwed that up gone, baby.

2:19:18

God. Whoa. That was the one where you realized if I'm making a Boston movie, I got to use the locals.

2:19:23

They have to be involved.

2:19:26

Yeah. And more real than good ones, which did Ely, certain elements of Boston, which we felt we had to in order to make it.

2:19:36

And I felt like the gum be gone was more, maybe not better, but was more honest.

2:19:43

I think that's fit for me.

2:19:48

I'm on your list. Gone girl three.

2:19:50

I think the way back is for, for me, We've

2:19:55

backs up there for me, for sure.

2:19:56

I, you know, I love the last tool.

2:19:58

I really love, I

2:20:00

haven't seen that enough times yet. I need like three, four more viewings.

2:20:04

I think that was one that we got under just a little bit.

2:20:07

I think if we had gotten all of it, we could have driven the ball four 50 feet.

2:20:13

I feel like we got to the track.

2:20:15

You know what I mean?

2:20:17

In some ways maybe it squeaked.

2:20:18

It depends on yes.

2:20:19

Yeah,

2:20:22

exactly. In Fenway. It's off the monster for sure.

2:20:24

For sure.

2:20:26

I don't know where we were. It depends on where we're playing, which by that, I mean who's watching it, but I know we got a hold.

2:20:33

I do also feel how we just got hair under it for reasons I'm not going to go into, but that's, those are the heartbreak.

2:20:41

It's not like, okay guy fools me.

2:20:43

I was like a fastball, beautiful curve ball, strike three.

2:20:47

And you see guys do it though. The bat that no, they're all, you know.

2:20:50

Okay, it'd be. But when you have that shape, get the pitch hit.

2:20:54

It looked fast ball inside part of the plate, the gear up, turn on it.

2:20:58

And it's like, I know I chucked, you know, a third of an inch lower on the ball, Jim

2:21:07

Reisen the 1978 Yankee playoff game in the late innings.

2:21:11

So just those bomb.

2:21:13

And it seemed like it was out.

2:21:15

But of course it wasn't because the Yankees, we could never have good things to get.

2:21:19

And keys for you. That's back about sports is actually the most relevant to the PED issue.

2:21:25

Because if you're going to get a 10 or 15% boost, that's going to make the difference in those moments, which is quite significant.

2:21:33

You know, every time we hit the ball, there's a lot of fly balls that come 10 feet shorter than warning or hit on the, to track.

2:21:40

And if you've got a 10% bump, it's gone.

2:21:44

Now think of the difference between that.

2:21:48

So does this mean you and Damon are to do more stuff for, we go like they wrote that you wrote last though, and you got to go in and like, I

2:21:55

mean, I've been doing this the whole time.

2:21:57

We had the wrong idea. This is so stupid.

2:21:59

We were out there chasing this thing that gets successful, do our thing, whatever.

2:22:04

And there's nothing there. The Miami, the McGaffey doesn't matter what people say about it.

2:22:09

Or if you get trophies or if you don't have the box, none of that shit makes you happy.

2:22:12

The only thing that makes you happy is spending time with people.

2:22:15

You love, principally your kids, loving them, loving your family, being a good person.

2:22:20

And when you go to work, if you work with people, you like, it makes such a bigger difference in your life than whether or not you kind of go around with your crew jacket on and impress people.

2:22:31

Cause like, Hey, I did this a little bit.

2:22:33

Like fuck that. You know what I mean? It doesn't do anything for you except to the ugly narcissist part of people that wants everyone to love and admire them, which is just a miserable, shitty character attribute that makes sure that You

2:22:48

should write a third year college reunion movie with bat.

2:22:50

Just hold up, just write it out.

2:22:52

Eight, nine characters.

2:22:53

You could film it in five weeks.

2:22:56

Cheap costs.

2:22:57

Everybody takes, everybody takes smaller salaries because they just want to be a part of it.

2:23:02

Spanking out. I'm going to say right now you can get nothing.

2:23:05

You want a story by credit? We're going to negotiate right now.

2:23:09

I started back credits. Great. Yeah.

2:23:11

I want to start $200 Dunkin donuts gift card.

2:23:14

I'm good.

2:23:14

Just

2:23:14

do

2:23:19

it. Just call up with them and write it.

2:23:20

All right. Ben Affleck.

2:23:22

Good luck with the tender bar.

2:23:24

It was good to see you.

2:23:26

So seven is always the best whether or not whatever they say about our interview.

2:23:30

The interview itself is always, I

2:23:33

think this, hopefully this one won't get aggregated in a terrible way.

2:23:36

I think we did it. I think we navigated it correctly, but we'll see.

2:23:39

I mean, what else? Maybe I'm sure somebody again, I dunno somebody, you can find something, but you know, we have the interview recorded for posterity.

2:23:48

Welcome to watch it.

2:23:51

I had a good time. All right. Good to see.

2:23:52

Thanks

2:23:52

to

2:23:52

Ben

2:23:52

Affleck

2:23:52

and

2:23:52

Peter

2:23:57

Schrager. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, our producer for this episode.

2:24:00

And thanks to everybody who spread the word for season one, a music box.

2:24:04

Don't forget juice world into the best.

2:24:06

The last film of our six film series, HBO 8:00 PM.

2:24:09

There's the night and a bail bond.

2:24:11

HBO max as well. Have a great weekend go pats CSN.

2:24:15

I'm Derek Thompson, longtime writer with the Atlantic magazine on tech culture and Thompson, a longtime writer with the Atlantic magazine on Tech Culture and politics. There is a lot of noise out There is a lot of noise out there and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your Listen for free on spot by or wherever you get your podcasts. The The bill Simmons podcast is presented by FanDuel Simmons podcast is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. The is back. There's no better place to bet the action than on FanDuel Sportsbook, this basketball there's no better place to bet the action than on FanDuel's SportsPodcasts basketball season. Look, they had the best Look, they have the best ads. And what I like is they're not scared of games have grown on, you know what I like is they're not scared if games are going on. You know what? what? They'll keep the division ads They'll keep the division odds up. up. They'll keep the conference odds up for They'll keep the conference odds up for NBA. They might even keep the MVP odds They might even keep the MVP odds. up. They're not scared by what might happen from They're not scared by what might happen from game. If you're feeling the urge, you're watching where's game, Steph's going you're feeling the urge, you're watching Warriors game, Steph's going Just say to yourself, you know what? what? I'm putting, putting down a little Steph MVP I'm putting putting down a little Steph MVP money. It'll probably be probably be there. Plus you can combine multiple bets from the same Plus, you can combine multiple bets from the same game you're about to watch to a same game parlay. 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Do not talk to me until my lineup is set like a good neighbor state Do not talk to me until my lineup is set. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. also about to go to the ringer podcast network where if you're not listening to the ringer reality TV feed, I don't know what to tell ya. I really I really don't. We have Johnny Banana's talking about the challenge with Dan Orlowski on his death taxes of Dana's podcasts. We have Tyson one of the great survivor contestants ever breaking down the mega three hour season We have Tyson, one of the great subroutic contestants ever, breaking down the mega three hour season finale. That's on there as well, and a bunch of other good that's on there as well, and a bunch of other good stuff. So check out the ringer reality TV stuff. So check out the ringer reality TV feed. When you get a chance, speaking of podcasts, just a heads up Jackie you get a chance. Speaking of podcasts, Just a heads up, Jackie McMullan. And I talked about Joel and being on my podcast on Tuesday, she had a quick impression of and I talked about Joel and beat on my podcast on Tuesday. She did a quick impression of Joel as she was sharing a personal anecdote. We realized afterwards it could be taken the wrong way. So it was little too late. So as a result, we uploaded an edited version as soon as we So as a result, we uploaded an edited version as soon as could. And we apologize about we and we apologize about that. One more note on ringer podcasts, if you're not less than a plain English with Derek Thompson, one of the smartest podcasts, not only that we have, but just on the internet, he's done a great One more note on Ringers podcast. If you're not listening to plain English with Derek Thompson, one of the smartest podcasts, not only that we have, but just on the Internet. He's done a great job. I'm really proud of that podcast. The first I think we're we're basically done with the first month, but really smart topics. It's not too long, focused conversations, and each time I learned something, So check that one out if you have a chance. Play in English with Derek Thompson. One more thing to check HBO tonight, eight PM. The juice world doc Juice World into the abyss directed by Tommy Albert is available on HBO Max to stream, as well as the sixth and final film of our music boxers, which just got renewed for season too. So we are flatter and grateful about that, very excited to get going in the second season. Tell some more stories It's always the hardest to do the first season with any of these, especially convincing filmmakers to come and, you know, teach in the audience basically what it is. And this juice stock was the toughest one we had to do. It came together pretty late, somewhere in two thousand twenty. It's a story that I'd become fascinated by because my son loved Jews world, and we would drive around out and listen to the lyrics. And they were really complicated. A lot of the songs are really dark. And my son's like eleven and twelve years old, listen this, and Sometimes I even wondered if you really knew what the songs were about, but the there's a vibe and a beat and a style that you said that was just so distinct. But the lyrics are kind of the key to everything. And, you know, that's a lot of what this documentary is about. Even though Juice wasn't able to sit down for an interview, obviously. He's narrating his story in real time through this footage, which is incredible. And that was what we had to crack with And that was what we had to crack with this. We didn't have a ton of time to make a film. And yet what Tommy Albert did was just just unbelievable harnessing, like, ten thousand hours of footage and trying to figure out how to structure it. And there are a lot of cuts to this, and and you know, obviously, our from the ringer film side, we're involved giving notes on stuff. And this one just it hit me in a different way. And you know, I I really do think that Juice was genius. And I think that comes out in the film, and I don't think he's necessarily considered that way, which is one of the reasons we wanna do it. And I remember asking, Tommy, at one point, why isn't Why isn't he thought of, like, Kirk cobain or some of these other people that we have? Why why would juices? It always defaults toward, like, the drugs and how ended? Things like things like that. Why till people look at just incredible stuff that this this artist did from age seventeen to to when he died. And Tommy made the point like, hey, they haven't seen this film yet. So those were the stakes for us. We felt like this was an important story. And as one of the people interviewed in the in the film says, for whatever reason, just became a therapist for millions of young kids and you know, there there's a big picture thing that we could have gotten into if this was a four hour doc about just this generation of Ringers and hip hop artists and how self aware and self conscious. Their songs were compared to, like, what I what I grew up with in the late eighties and early nineties and what people wrote songs about back then and what they're saying about. In which use, think if you think about his story through the prism of mental health over, you know, the easy way to think about it is like, oh, this is a drug story. It's not. It's a mental health story, and it's somebody that was really in a lot of pain and expressed that through his songs and expressed that through how he performed day after day for the people around him because he kind of couldn't figure out what else how else to channel it, you know. And I I think it's really heartbreaking to watch and especially if you've had anybody in your life who's dealt with this stuff, you know. The manifestation of how you deal with it can go badly in all these different ways. right? It could be drugs, it could be alcohol, alcohol, it could be self harm, whatever it Right? It can be drugs. It could be alcohol, it could be self harm, whatever it is. But I think there's so much more awareness these days of of people knowing that they're not okay and maybe being a little more thoughtful about asking for help, telling somebody they're not doing well, reaching out to somebody in their life. That's something like my generation didn't do. We weren't in the nineties if you felt like you're in a dark spot or, you know, you're in a bad place, whatever. You kinda bottled it up. You didn't want anyone to know. It was like a sign of weakness. A lot of the time. And, you know, that's changed obviously. In Juice's case, you know, he's gone through so much and you really feel it in the dock and he doesn't really know how to help himself other than through the songs. So I think that's one of the many reasons why by this one stuck with me unlike the usual typical music film we're gonna do. It's it's really intense. So Check it out. JuiceWorld into the abyss directed by Tommy Oliver. Going up tonight. And that's it for season one, anxious to start on season two, coming on this podcast, we're gonna talk about the NFL's COVID crisis with Peter Schrager and how that's going to affect these and that's it for season one. Thanks just to start on season two. Coming on this podcast, we're gonna do talk about the NFL's COVID crisis with Peter Schrager how that's gonna affect these games. We're rushing the picks up just because we know that chief's chargers, we actually know who's playing in that one. So, I mean, it's trivial compared to everything else. But from a gambling standpoint, almost impossible well to guess what's gonna happen in some of these games when you're not positive who's playing. So we cover all that. And then Affleck comes on. Haven't talked to Ben in five years since he came on my HBO show. And we actually talk about that in the interview we do. But but he's always fun to talk to. I think he's a fascinating guy and really smart and really self-aware and not afraid to not afraid to get into I I think he's a fascinating guy. And really smart and really self aware and not afraid to not afraid to get into topics. You know? So in a lot of ways, she's the perfect podcast guest, but that was really fun. So this is an action packed podcast. I can only do one thing right now. We gotta to bring in project All right, Peter Schrager's need to Ringers Progyny. Alright. Peter Ringers here. We are taping this quarterly on Thursday. It's noon right now, PT, because we wanted to get the Chiefs' chargers game into this. And the reason is because The the COVID stuff's just gone bonkers in basketball and in football. And to big multidar picks on a Thursday, not knowing who's playing and not knowing who's gonna get scratched. It seems like Thursday is the only game. I feel great about what? Is the league in a complete panic right now? What's going What's going on? No. I mean, they're they're hell bent on getting these games in, but I'll tell you some of the teams are in a complete panic. And you look at what's happening with Washington and with Los Angeles and with Cleveland who has to play on Saturday, And now Chicago, if you saw as we're going to recording this, they don't have a head coach, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, or special teams coach, or no, the head coach. Actually, Nagy is fine. But, like, I don't know. The Rams I don't know if the Rams could feel the team right now, but the NFL says we're playing these games. And the unfortunate thing about it is that if this was, like, week three or week four, you could say, well, there's some wiggle room. Can't really reschedule these games. Like, we're here at the end of the season and the playoffs are not changing. So, I don't know, man, this is something else. Yeah. My thought was that we would just go big on chief's chargers and then sprinkle some on the rest. But I I don't wanna actually put big money on any of these games, Sunday money. I don't know who's gonna play it. What if we what if we take the pets and all of so they lose their entire secondary on Friday and just such weird times. And, you know, I the way most of these everybody, just about, I would say, is vaccinated probably in the league or at least most of them. So it's not doesn't feel like anything's like life threatening here, but at the same time, nobody understands here's the way how fast can you spread it? What you know, what is this the flu? Is it worse it does? Here's the rub. There's they all had a league meeting. All the owners, all the presidents, and all the health officials in Irving, Texas this week. And lot of people were like, alright, we understand that, like, you're being safe here, but if you're testing every single day and these guys are asymptomatic and they're back and they don't feel sick. Like, can we change these rules? And I think the NFL would love to, and they might. The NFL Players Association, the union is hell bent on as of now. Let's stay with the daily testing and let's do what's best for these players. And it's the it's a collectively bargain policy. So it's not as easy as that. I I'm gonna be really interested to see how it plays out because these rules might change. We need the union and need the players to buy in We need the union and need the players to buy in. Crazy times. And We're heading toward the playoffs. That's the other piece of this. And who knows how that's I wonder, like, would they actually postpone a game? Hmm. What would need to What would need to happen? Like, let's say one of these teams, the Browns, Washington, one of these teams passes the point of no Ringers, and they can't feel the football team. They have the two week window between the championship games and the Super Bowl. So would they consider nudging everything back a week? I don't know. I think they're gonna have to thinking that way. Gonna have to look at everything, and the Players Union has to cooperate with it. I'll say that there was some heated discussions this week at the league meetings. And I know there are a lot of representatives from teams saying, hey, we need to change these. This is not the life or death thing. We have vaccines. And as as calist as it sounds, like, we've played fifteen weeks. Let's not throw the season away because of, you know, some rules that we think might be changing. But knows? The NFL's being, you know, rather be safe than sorry. But gosh, you look at a team. Like tonight, the charters don't have Rishan later. They he's the best left tackle in football. The last few weeks, he's their best player on their offensive line this season. And now you got Frank Clark and whoever else because of this. He can't play in Sean Slater most likely feels fine. Right. Weird time, Schrager. know. That not as weird for us because we we just every week, we have bad luck and we lose games. We had tough beats on the Browns and all that stuff I But as I'm looking ahead at week fifteen, it's hard not to see the shadow of the one and only Urban Meyer. Over one of the games where the Jaguars are five foot favorites against the Texan's, the line moved after he got fired because I think people are like, oh, they're gonna NFLs. your Urban Myer notebook. What are, like, the three craziest things you heard about this this week? Well, it was it was coming to a head, and Tom Peller Aero from the NFL network did a really fine job chronicling it with that article on Saturday. And I think one of the things that stood out most lot of people No one from Jacksonville at all was like, no, wait a second. That's not true. Like, not one person came out and was like, no. He didn't get in a a fiery argument with Marvin Jones or no. He didn't bench James Robinson and Trevor Lawrence begged him to come back and there was no one coming to his side. So I could tell you that Sean, the owner, did a bit of a fact finding mission. This week was speaking to a lot of people within the building. And then once you got that Josh Lambo story on the record, and no one came out and was outraged by by that story. I think it expedited. But the story that what I heard as of Wednesday was, like, They got the Texans this week. They got the Jets next week. Let's give it those two weeks and let's reassess. And then once the Lambo article came out, I think it really expedited things. But at the league meetings, I could tell you that it was a hot topic of conversation and I I feel like Sean sort of saw the writing on the wall and let's rip the band aid off. Bill, it's the first time we've ever in the history of the NFL seen a first year coach fired before the end of the season. We've seen Katrina leave. We've seen coaches get fired after one year. Never through this. Just through thirteen games. It's pretty wild. I think it might be the new go to reference. For me, it was always in that crazy wash the year he had where he's like, I he's working eight hours day. You know, it was, like, oh, good luck good luck with that strategy in the NFL, but there's been some good ones. Katrina, you mentioned, Sabin lasted a couple years. This one went the worst. It all the signs were there all spring, all summer. And it makes you wonder, like, why would teams ever do this again? Yeah. Why are you gonna hire the big paycheck college guy without having any idea whether he's gonna have the kind of work ethic or demeanor and some of these guys are just better off coaching kids and ordering people around. These are professional adults that they don't work the same way. Yeah. And and I could tell you that even knowing like, they interviewed Bienemy, they interviewed Solo, they interviewed Arthur Smith, and then it didn't matter. It didn't matter. They wanted urban so badly. And it was urban who was waffling at the last second before they hired him. Like, it was urban who dragged this on an extra week. And it was basically the Jaguars was like, just take it over, like, just lead us there, but there was no precedent of Urban Meyer coming into an NFL team and leading them there. And my last point is, I don't know how this plays out because this is maybe next level stuff or sports business stuff, and it applies to any company that fires somebody with such a an epic fall. But Urban's gonna wanna get paid that full contract, and Sean's not gonna wanna pay him that full contract. So this could get really ugly as far as Lawyers go as far as what comes out publicly because they might say he was fired for just cause and Bens and urban might say No. That's all conjecture. You can't prove any of that stuff. So this isn't the end of this story, and now the Jaguars have to start all over all over again. And they could use the team playing thing against them. Yep. You didn't fly back. That was negligence. We have just caused. You had leadership things that you didn't stand up to. I love this stuff. You know, I was thinking I was on a thread with some of some ringer people about basketball and just talking about bad GM moves and how much fun the two thousands were for me. As well as I had Summit. Yeah. Oh my goodness. They had Church's GM Summit, and there was, like, just ten terrible GMs doing the most insane things year after year, and it was is so much fun, so much comedy. And I think everybody gets smarter. People are relying on analytics more, so analytics might steer some teams away from stuff and, you know, that people are very aware of social media and are we gonna get attacked for this? So I think there's more caution and carefulness. With big moves, this was an old school terrible disaster of a move that seemed terrible as it was happening especially because it didn't even seem like he wanted to go there. A franchise that has really had a checkered history under Shat Khan to say the least, and it worked out even worse than we ever thought it could have, which is really rare in professional sports in two thousand twenty one to have something happen that's worse than your worst case scenario for it. I think this actually surpassed the worst case scenario for how bad this went. Not to mention, Trevor Lawrence, who We have no idea what he is after thirteen games. Is he good? Is he not good? Like, this guy was supposed to be the surest Bens since Afflecks. he's like, is he better than Mac Jones? I don't know. I don't know how much all this affected him. I think it was it was the best possible opportunity for Urban Meyer to go into and that there was a very low media profile. You're going to a smaller market team. There's not this pressure cooker in New York or in San Francisco or some of these other places. You have the number one overall pick and everyone wants to see him succeed and there's room to grow. And there is a ton of cap space and he can hire whoever he wanted. And for what it sounds like a lot of those guys that he hired in the final days of Urban Meyer, sounds like they turned on him. And no one was in his corner. And at the end of the day, he was looking at the owner and the owner's like, You're on an island here, pal, because Urban hired a lot of his own guys, and I don't think many of his own guys came to his defense when it mattered most. It's so funny that Khan family has done done such a bad job with the jaguars. I know. The wrestling's been amazing. Like, they it's the first legitimate kind of smartly constructed challenger that WWE probably had in almost thirty years. And all the time care thought they put into that product. And then on the football side, it's just been, you know, the wheels have been off really since where were they up Bens? With Bordeauxs. Yeah. And and I was in Gillette. The Miles Jack player and then Stephan Gilmore has one of the greatest past breakups in the history of playoff football, diving full by and deflecting that pass, and the Patriots found a way. Crazy. Well, I hope I hope Trevor Lawrence is good. Cause I feel like we need good good because I feel like we need good quarterback. I know. The Quarterbacks, the name that I keep hearing already and it's early is like a Jim Caldwell name that I keep hearing already, and it's early, is like a Jim Caldwell type. Like, Alright. Let's hire someone who at least is beloved by the players and Ringers stability and has been in the NFLs. Caldwell would be excellent in that role. Just don't think they're gonna go crazy big stuff. That's not that's not the NFLs? It could be the enemy. It could be the enemy as well. And that's a first year coach though. I think what they're looking for right now is stability. Let's get this get this thing. Even in the short term, they get it back on track and put it back in place because it went so haywire so quickly too. I mean, there were so many telltale signs whether it be the hiring of the strength coach out of the gates where people are like that. The the the fact that he was surprised by free agency, some of the comments he made that it wasn't as easy as recruiting. And then I would say even the TiVo signing, which we all to give him the benefit of the doubt. It was not a normal move to bring Tbow back and bring him in there because you've seen Tbow's leadership skills from that in the 4828. There was a lot of strange red flags. And if you put it all together, and then you add in Tom Pelisero's report and then the Josh Lambo story, it was almost like, gosh. That was that was that was just really unfortunate how it all went down. Well, b soundhouse said, Naggy to be the first coach fired, plus seven hundred. It's a tough beat. It really felt like we had it there, not never wish for anyone to get fired, if it's something we can bet on, we're gonna it. And you're betting on like more of the direction of what you think the team is on and you're betting on, like, more of the direction of what you think the team is. On field. Yeah. Yeah. On field. And it just seemed like the bears that was gonna be the move. But now it just seems like the bears are waiting till the end of the season, most likely. And and probably just cleaning house completely. Yeah. And and the one note on the Lambo article, which is a kicker saying he was kicked and whether it was true or not, whatever it is, what I liked about this bill and you respect this is that Lambo said he wasn't gonna say anything. But the second that Urban said, once I find out who the leaking sources, I'm gonna fire that person. Lambo was like, Screw that. Like, you you no. Label played for them for five years. He's like, that's not how this is going down. So, like, Josh Lambo is the whistleblower, kicker who is no longer on the team. Unbelievable. Before we get to million dollar picks, do we know who Kyle Brandt is doing a hype video for in a Sunday pre game show this week? Because I wanna go the other way. Which fan base is is is looking to be hoodwinked and get third and have the thirsty Kyle Brand experience. I'm kidding. Kyle gave the bill's fans as passionate, speech from high school field and well, they almost pulled it off, but it wasn't enough, though. K. I don't know, Kyle Brandt, And he gets back to the drawing board. I don't know if these motivational speeches are working. We need a motivational speech. We sure that maybe maybe Kyle can give us one We lost a hundred and one k last week. We're still down six figures, but man, we're getting close to seven. We are -- No. No. -- down hundred ninety five thousand hours. Ironically, two of the losses last week were losses. You tried to talk me out of I feel like we're fractured right now. We're not on the same page. Well, one of them, you talk you tried talk the Browns minus two and a half against the Ravens, which was the right pick. And I'll never understand how the Browns didn't cover that game. Whatever. The cardinals game against the Rams. So I look at that game. I'm not positive how the cardinals didn't just win that game by ten points. They had almost five hundred yards of offense. They're driving down. They're about to score and go up ten nothing, and Murray throws one of the worst picks by good QB of the season, flips the game, throws another terrible pick later, seems banged up by the and we had been talking about this you and I talked about it. talked about it. It was sat on Sunday night. It's like, yeah, the card on a pole position. There's something I just don't a hundred percent trust, and it all comes out in that game. You know, all of it. And now it's like yeah. They haven't been there. And I'm not as talented and amazing as Kala Murray is. Sometimes it sucks when either you're rooting for him or you're betting on him and you can kinda see how that game's going and you think, like, Oh, shit. This guy's five Bens. And I don't totally trust how this is gonna go. And it feels like all of a sudden that their batting down passes and you know, some of some of his little decision making pops into play. And then it'll have a play where he's about to get sacked, and he doesn't pure it one eighty and runs out and gets seventeen yards. Right. That's my Right? That's my guy. That's around the very He completed a pass on third and ninth. Like, that was one of the best completions on a big play you'll ever see. And it was along the sidelines and you're like, oh, shit. He's just so good. He's so so good. But it's a roller coaster ride. It's just a cliff. It just is. So I don't know if I'm getting back on the season. It's fair. Think of it might be might be staying away. I didn't really enjoy my last roller coaster ride on Monday. No. And one of the weirdest stats that I've ever seen. There's seven and o on the road and they have a plus a hundred and twelve point differential and a plus seventeen turnover differential. On the road, But at home, they're giving up just as many points as they're scoring and they're minus seventeen with turnovers. It's a very odd team. They win on the road and they're not they're not good at home. It's very bizarre. Glendale is a weird place to play. And I know this firsthand. Soccer tournaments or or Super Bowls what he got. Oh, the fucking pirate. The pirate game. I know. Oh my god. It's just weird. The energy's weird. You're driving forever. It feels like it's in the middle of nowhere even though it's not. And big spacious stadium, it's got this weird energy to it. And I don't know. It's like that last of the old school domes that people were building in the two thousands. I think they make them better now. They're they're they feel a little more intimate than the stretch from, like, Gillette stadium all the way through whatever that Glendale thinks called, where it it giant stadium is another one. It's like, Is this an advantage? Yup. Does that feel like it helps the home Doesn't I feel like it helps the home team because my team is not in downtown. You've gotta drive out to get there. There's like, you know, it's like what's it called the Bar Louie, and they've got, like, the the whole thing. That's, like, the little, like, couple restaurants. I don't know if they still have those the MillionDollar, the bowling thing, whatever that was, you know. Right. And then it's the stadium. And you're like, alright. It's I'm in a corporate office park, and here go. And it's a fan base that That's a great way to say it. That's what same thing feels like. It's a corporate office park with a giant stadium in it. And that's what it is. Is this cold? Is this feel like an advantage at all? Maybe that's just the error we're in, especially with half the people at the game or just on their phone checking their fantasy teams at the time. Yep. List it some Monday night. Alright. We're gonna take a break. We're gonna come back. We're gonna try to figure out the million dollar picks. III can't tell you how do we are. How are we doing? You know you're in a bad run, but man, or we do? How are we not? Are we do? Or am I crazy? Are you kidding me? We've had some of the worst bad beats in the history of of sports gambling over the last few weeks. Yes, we're due. God, every time there's a bad beat just to that was a MillionDollar. Sorry. Take a quick break. Well, Well, the NFL season is approaching the final couple of the NFL season is approaching the final couple weeks. FanDuel Sportsbook has a little something different to offer during this weekend's matchup between the bucks and saints, new customers get 25 to one odds in any touchdown scored in the FanDuel Sportsbook has a little something different to offer during this weekend's matchup between the Bucks and Saints. New customers get twenty five to one odds and NFLs touchdowns score in the game. 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And then on Wednesdays, we've been messing around with NBA bets as and then on Wednesdays, we've been wrestling around with NBA betting as well. Sign up with promo code BS this week before Sunday nights matchup, you could win $125 on a $5 up with promo code b s this week before Sunday night's match up. You could win one hundred and twenty five dollars and five dollar bet. Remember use promo code Remember you use promo code BS. So the note I sent you exclusively on the fandom sports Sportsbook app, you must be b s so they know I sent you. Exclusively on the FanDuel's you must be twenty one plus president Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey Vina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia. New users only. Ten dollar first deposit required must wager and designated offer market max Bens, hundred twenty five dollars. Restrictions apply. See full [email protected] gambling problem in see full terms at SportsPodcasts dot com. Gamely problem. In Arizona. Call one in a one-eight hundred Next Step, Connecticut, 888789777. In Colorado, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Bens in under Gammler. In Michigan, eight hundred 2707117, Tennessee one eight hundred 8899789 or west Virginia, eighteen hundred gamboard dot net. Alright. Million dollar picks. NFLs 15. So I'm so disoriented by this season. We're already in the Saturday game schedule, but it's not the second to last week of the We're already in the Saturday game schedule, but not the second of last week of the season, and there's lots of football 4828, and the patch I feel like, oh my god. They had been and there's so many games left. I know. I don't know who's in the driver's seat. Very confusing, but we're gonna jump on KC plane tonight. Which I feel good about for a variety of reasons. You mentioned Schrager is not playing the left tackle, who is the best line men and the charges, seems important. It's a home game for the charters, but as we've seen all season and for the last two seasons, is it? Does it count as a home game? How many Chiefs how many Chiefs fans are gonna be there? How many Chiefs fans turn this into their little holiday trip? Or let's come to LA. We'll go to the game on Thursday's date for the weekend. What's the most random Chiefs jersey you're gonna say? I'm thinking like a deck McCluster, you know, Jersey. You're gonna see like, that's this is what we call the Not New Jersey game where people just have these incredible random Chiefs jerseys all over Sophie Stadium. Well, you know what the underrated ones are. It's the montanagers and the Islanders. The Marcus San Francisco Jersey is like a secret one that you will see That was a good time. So you got that. The charters, they're getting some Renaissance stuff. And our guy Bens Solac wrote better for the ringer this week about what what why does their offense look so much better than it does? And it's like they're doing more stuff on first down. They're using key down more all stuff that makes sense. At the same time, I look at their schedule. They put up twenty points against Minnesota. They put up forty one against Pittsburgh on Saturday night. But if you remember that game, everyone on Pittsburgh was hurt. Right? It was No. They were basically missing everybody and took advantage. Thirteen points against Denver, they light up sincey, really weird game. We had sincey in that game, but it was just there were turnovers. There were it it was didn't feel like a forty one point offense performance. I'll just say that. And then and they killed the giants last week. My point is, like, I I'm leaving the door open for the chargers have figured it out offensive juggernaut thing. But at the same time, They managed just had a couple of good games and maybe they drift back over to where they are. I like the Chiefs pass rush. I think the Chiefs have found their identity defensively. And especially with that Schrager, with Magnolo, just blitzes the fuck out of them. Mhmm. NFLs the flip side, like, I like the way the Chiefs are running ball. Yeah. They've really since Edwards, Alera, this is the best he's looked since he's come back and then Williams comes in and they can throw in it. It just seems like even though maybe the points aren't there. I still like that. I like the I like the plays they call. I like the way they look. And I I actually feel like there's upside with the Chiefs still. Maybe this is the game. What do you think? Sure. I I will see. And by the time this goes live, we already will know the results of this. I'll just say this. Watch the two offensive line and the two rookies for the Chiefs. They the the charters, as we know, of a a really struggling run defense. And Trey Smith and Creed Humphrey, that's their center and their guard. They're both rookies, and they've been maul and dudes. And I could see this. Everyone wants to shoot out between the quarterbacks, but I could see the Chiefs just dominating the ball up front in the trenches and taking care of business that way. Little more Kelsey. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have this up. This will be up by, like, five o'clock eastern time. So we're we're we have plenty of time to get this another wire. So KC minus three. I think we are marking down. Let's go. And in general, just a nice spot for KC because the pets, the pets are underdogs. Get the goats this weekend. And the AFC could flip pretty quickly. Well, I mean, I mean, if you want to talk about it that way, chargers, when they're in first place in the AFC if you wanna talk about it that way, chargers win there in first place in the AFC West. So it it is so up for grabs right now because they've already beaten the Chiefs in Arrowhead. It's actually a really cool week of games even though doesn't look like there's that marquee game. Every single game seems to have some playoff contention stakes in it and, like, the whole thing could be totally rewritten by Monday. It's an amazingly unusual good Thursday night game. It is. Like, it's a it's a marquee Thursday night game in week, you know, whatever it is, that usually this is a, you know, tightens jaguars in both got three wins. Because the flipside is if the chargers pulled this off without their left tackle and beat the big bully in the AFC West, you would assume it was a Herbert game. Yeah. And Herbert's you know, he's I I'm not gonna say he's bursting through the door yet, but the passing had he's had to accumulate. Holy crap. That passed the guy in sixty six in the air in the in the air last week. That's maybe the pass of the season. So who knows? We shall see, but I'll bet I'm a homes in a big spot. Let's go. Well, I'm with you, but I was gonna say Herbert. It's kind of infringing on Mahomes' wow factor corner. We're from home. So I was like, I'm the wow guy in this league at quarterback. You're right. I'm the one that gets the clips cut out, and everybody has big jerk circle about where I can't wait to do this and oh my god. And look at look at this like, there was a Herbert thing where somebody posted the pass chart. Yeah. And that that pass you through that you're talking about. It was, like, sixty five, sixty seven yards, whatever it is. And it doesn't end on the pass chart. It's just this line. It just goes. There's no x to where the pathway I did. So, yeah, from a WOW standpoint, he's kinda there with my homes, I think. And it doesn't it feel like Mahomes has one in his in his back pocket for Tyrique night, and it's like, now I'll take that back. Thank you. Yep. Mahomes really seems like the the I wonder, like, the stuff with his brother, how much is weird. I'm sure it's just very strange social media presence in a whole bunch of different ways. And I wonder, like, I don't know. Wait. Maybe that's partly to explain, like, he's had kind of a goofy year for him. Uh-huh. He was the guy going into the year where we were thinking was, like, Tiger Woods in the late nineties, basically. Yeah. So who knows? We'll we'll have some answers tonight. More games for us. You know, I'm not letting Pat's plus two and half against the colds go. Okay. Let's talk about it. Well, you make the case for the cult, so I wanna hear it. If you if you think they have a chance to make the case that's not just Jonathan Taylor, they're gonna run on them. And like, what's the and, like, what's case? What do we know about Damian Harris right now? I I mean, this is the thing. If we got a hamstring issue with Harris, are we ready for Mondre, Stevenson, and Mac Jones, to go into a building in in late December and say, hey, I'm gonna beat a playoff pretending contending team with Darius Leonard and DeForest Buckerland as cults are good. Like, the cults are legit. They have a really good upfront offensive line, maybe the best in football, and then a good defensive line. And I think they're gonna make Mac Jones beat him on the road in a big spot. And I'm not sure as much as we love Mac. I'm not sure he's gonna be lighting the ball. He's gonna be lighting it up all through the air in this game. So you worried about young pats guys in key skill position worried about young Pat's guys and key skill position spots? Yes. Can I flip that out on you? That's why we do this. Let's go. Carson against bill. Bellacheck your Bell, check your thoughts. It's not a great not a great match up for all Carson. I'll tell you that. I mean, that that is fair. But I will take the Colts run game over the Patriots run game right now. Fair. Fair. Cats coming off a buy. Coles coming off a buy. Frank Bragg versus Ball check to beat him in the Super Bowl. This is a good counter. This is good. Pat's in a tease or Pat's straight up. What makes you feel better emotionally? I mean, if think the pets are gonna win, you take them straight up. Right? I don't know if the pets are gonna win. I think this is I think all the past fans deep down know that this is probably other than the Chiefs, the worst matchup in the AFC for them because if the courts get the lead and then they start hammering it with Taylor, And even though you stop them nine times, the thing about Taylor's, the tenth time, all of a sudden, he's running for thirty eight yards. Let me ask you, as far as Patriates fandom goes, when you see that logo and that building and that owner and that history, is there a part of you that just absolutely fucking hates the cults? It's not a small part. It's -- Yeah. -- an open Even even without pay in and without, you know, Napoleon and without all that, it's still just that logo. Hate the cults. It goes back to them trying to change the rules after two thousand four because they didn't like NFLs were too mean to their receivers. The o six title game, which is just still devastating to this day. Up twenty one three. Jeff said it. Affleck. Yeah. The Manning Brady manning Brady stuff. And then to it, when the pads kicked their asses, and then all of a sudden, it was in the balls. Forty five to seven. They beat him in that they beat him in that game. I just rewatched it. I didn't realize it was that big blah blah. And everyone thought Andrew luck. Like, this is his chance to seize it, and it was It was not that. I was thinking about luck the other day actually. Is that the biggest, what if that's happened this decade? Because you think, like, they had this whole team that was set up to be a monster contender. Right? They're also he's on the salary cap, so it actually cost them from a salary cap standpoint. But if luck I don't know. If if he just plays and he's a b plus, with all the other stuff they have. They don't have to give away draft capital for whence. And they still draft Jonathan Taylor, who they probably would have and they still draft John at the Taylor who they probably would have anyway. And they just kept the team that they had and maybe he takes a year off and comes back and he's healthy, they would have to be the best team in AFC. don't I actually feel like we don't talk about this enough. The oh my god. Andrew retired. That guy was really good. It's amazing. And he was an MVP candidate every year. He had fulfilled every promise as the first overall pick right out of the gates. He took him to the playoffs, and that was when Pagano got sick and Aireans then got sick before the playoff game against the Ravens. Like luck was amazing and yet he kept such a low profile and has kept such a low profile that He showed up at Stanford a few weeks ago and was there when they honored John Lynch and it was like a blip on the radar. And I'm like, that's like seeing a sasquatch. I have not seen Andrew Luck once and in today's social media in Instagram world. Like, it's unbelievable that he's been solo profile. Alright. Would you call him an enigma? Would you go to a enigma? I think I would go to think I would too, but it's such a weird fork in the road for them because everything else is kinda there with the colds. Like they would at least be I think contender. Now they're team that if they lose this pass game, they're not even a playoff probably. Yeah. And it's a great what if and there's a great doc to be done on, like, Andrew and what went down there? Because now three years removed, you're not coming back. But, like, two year removed, maybe two years removed, and shit. I work on TV. You do this stuff. I mean, like, I haven't even seen him do an interview or I haven't seen I mean, like, I haven't even seen him do an interview. Or I haven't seen him. Would he be good in a studio? Maybe would he be good doing games? Maybe he's got interesting voice, but, like, gosh, Andrew Luck is vanished. And who knows what the cults could be right now if he had stayed? I'll tell you this. It was a huge loss for the BS Podcast. South throwing it to Andrew the giant and me getting to do major. Yeah. I I don't have a lot of good imitations. It's like we're incrementally three or four and I could do the luck for us. And now it's like, I'm so out of practice. I'm afraid to even try it. So it hurt me to So it hurt me too. Andrew Luck, you you you know, you left a a trail of broken hearts. I hope he's happy though. It seems like he's happy with it. It's like he's, like, yeah, traveling the world and climbing and look, football risk physical violence sport. Sometimes people are like, I'm good. I'm out. I'm gonna do something else. We could tease the paths. Okay. Let's tease them. We could tease the past past seven. Okay? Which think is what we should do this time. I think that's the We could tease them in a six point t's to eight and a half where we can go seven point t's. The reason I mentioned is seven point t's, the Eagles are playing Washington. Washed in just a bunch of COVID scratches. RAVaged. RAVaged. To the point that this is a potential, might even have to cancel the game situation. I like filling in this game anyway. The line has climbed to nine and a half on FanDuel's for taping this. And a seven point t's would take that down to two and a half under Fogo. So bail, like, could Philly win by a Fogo over a completely ravaged Washington team? Seems like a safe bet. I I was thinking of marking it down unless you agree. No. I go with that. And I I don't know if it I would assume as we do this on a Thursday, Hertz has been practicing this week just a little bit, been around, been seen they might go two quarterbacks for all we know. You might see some might see some mention, you might see some hurts, whatever it is. The Eagles have avoided the COVID stuff, and Washington unfortunately has not Third one, if we're gonna do A33 team seven point t's, which is plus one twenty on fender. The San Francisco forty Ringers play in the falcons. The falcons is the most deceiving six and seven of all time and yet every time they're a deep underdog, you get scared because, you know, come back. They're now twenty one to three. Now it's twenty one seventeen. It met Ryan as well. To bring them down from nine and a half to two and a half. Now we don't have to do this, but wanted to talk it out. I think the nighters We talked about this on Sunday. I was just really impressed with the with the blue chippers on that team and the fact that their best guys now except for the running back. Their best guys all seem either healthy or mostly healthy. Samuel, Bosa, Kittel. Kittel. Yeah. You had you had in Trent Williams, so I think is the best tackle in the sport. You can argue that those three those four guys are enough with everyone being injured and all this COVID stuff are out. Like, those four guys being healthy and out in the field enough in a Samuel's battling right now. I know he's he played forty six snaps. And a lot of guys wouldn't have played any last week, but I think you can argue just the talent of those four guys alone are going to keep them in every a lot of guys wouldn't have played any last week. But -- Right. -- I think you can argue just the talent of those four guys alone are gonna keep them in every game. And then you have, like, like, Ayuk started to come around a little bit. Jimmy looks better. Jimmy's still gonna throw his one terrible battle. That that near pick six was bad. But the forty Ringers corners are atrocious right now, like real bad, and you saw what Lamar Chase did. If you trust Matt Ryan at all, you might wanna stay away. Yeah. I was I there's something about the falcons as a deep dog. I wanted to have the Niner's conversation. I will say this bet on them to make the super bowl today at 17 to what did you I will say this. Bet on them to make the Super Bowl today at seventeen o'clock. Teach you -- Yeah. -- interesting. Just good odds. Sure. Because if we're gonna say the cardinals aren't in pole position anymore, and we have Tampa who had Richard Sherman playing safe safety on Sunday, and then Green Bay who I don't know. I like Green Bay, but do do. I think they can be beaten in a playoff game think they can be beaten in playoff game? Sure. And then I watched that San Francisco team where in the right matchup where they can run the ball and kiddle if he can just stay healthy for two more months. And then what Bosa was doing last week, I thought was out of control. Like, they can block, they can rush a pass, and they have multiple playmakers. Like, what more am I looking for in January? hear you. hear you. So that was it. Alright. So can I go in one team? Just the Rams are just so ravaged with this stuff too and it's nothing against them. I you know, obviously, I was on them last week against Arizona. But right now, it's like, it's really bleak right now, and I'm not sure how it clears up by Sunday. So I would say just consider the Rams and going with whoever they're playing this week, which is Seattle and and maybe just say Seattle's they're gonna be down without locket maybe, but they might just have more fresh bodies and more guys available to play. So Seahawks are plus five and a half, and that could be brought to 11 and half, 12 and a c hogs are plus five and a half, and that could be brought to eleven and a half or twelve and a half. And I would do that too. I would do do that. I I find it very hard to think that the Rams are gonna look anything like they did on Monday with all the stuff they're dealing with week. Alright. So we'll mark that one down. Eagles minus two and a half, paths to plus nine and a half, and see it. I wonder if that we just do it a Bens point t's with that. Alright. We'll figure it out. Two more bets for you. So FanDuel has these alternate lines. And think we might there's a chance we might boost this assuming the COVID stuff goes okay with these games. But we can take the paths to minus two and a half. So if they win they'd have to win by a fuel ball against the colts, plus one thirty. Take the Browns playing in Vegas. Obviously, no Mayfield, but I'm not even positive. That's a bad thing, assuming it is a play because I think Case Keenom, I'm not sure there's different I know they've had some COVID stuff too. A lot of COVID stuff. You could take that in the minus three and a half. That would be plus one seventy for the brands to win by four. Against this Vegas theme that just seems like they're just a complete mess. Yeah. And it's in cold weather in Cleveland. I'm not sure if Vegas is looking to to slip out there and bring their egg game for that game. They might already be done. Pat's, brands with those alternate lines would be a plus five twenty one. Parlay. Fun Saturday. You like that one? That sounds like a fun Saturday. So little on the paths minus two and a half, little on the browns minus three and a half. They would both have to cover that plus five twenty one. I thought we could mark that down. And then last but not least, underdogs. Underdog parley. We we knew we weren't gonna do well last week. We just didn't like the underdogs. And then she turned Yeah. They We we weren't feeling great about it. But Couple good ones this week. We have the Texans. Okay. Why would you do the Texans? They suck. What's going on there? Well, Jacksonville was favored by five over them. And I just, my question is should Jacksonville be favored by five over and I I just my question is, should Jacksonville be favored by five over anybody? Plus, the glass half bowl is like, well, got rid of Urban. They'll be so fired up to him with that. glass half empty. This has been a complete shit show all crazy week. And this should be this is a coin flip. How do we know who's gonna win a Jacksonville, Texas game? Who knows? Let's go. We've on the Texas, I think twice this season, and they won those two games. Textiles beat the jaguars. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. And then so that's one, and then the other one would be as an underdog, the bangles. The bangles are In Denver, I like it. Bingles are. Won't give up on the bangles even me. Plus one:thirty for the bangles. I'm in. Let's go. Texans. Plus one ninety. And if you put them together, it's around plus five seventy, which will boost because we like to do for the for the FanDuel stuff. So that's what we're looking at. Anything else anything else you would throw in there? No. I'm good. I feel great about these. Yeah. Okay. You feel great about this? Capital Xi. Great. I do. Why not? It's the holidays. Let's Let's go. Alright. I'll turn the camera. MillionDollar picks. Week fifteen taping this lunchtime, Pacific Time, in time to get the Thursday night game in. Casey, at the chargers, Do you really consider this a home game for the chargers, Peter Schrager? I don't know. I I imagine a lot of Dexter Mccluster and Glendorsie Jersey's out there. Glend ERC. KC minus three. No left tackle for the chargers. AFC West on the line in a way that I think the the Chiefs actually need this game. It's not like, oh, if we lose this, we'll be fine. It's like, no. Actually, the charges could grab the AFC West. If you lose this, lot of Herbert Bus this week. A lot of Herbert Bus. A lot of Herbert has the strongest arm and is the best young quarterback buzz. Lot of my homes, hey, you're not the sexy new thing anymore. I'm sorry. There's no a new hot actress is coming and taking your place. You're not in the magazine covers anymore in my home. Hey, Michael Jordan. Guess what? Clyde Drexler might be the best shooting garden basketball. Yeah. I like the way the Chiefs look right now. And getting them minus three are under jumping on that. We're going big. Seven hundred and fifty five. I'm the chief's ministry. We're going to make look for the year. We're down nine ninety five. We need to start making some swings. We get the playoffs. We need to increase the bankroll here. We we win this game if if Troy Ackman and Joe Bucksy, the name Trey Pippkins twenty times. Trey Pippkins is filling in for Sean Schrager. He is at a Sioux Falls College. Like, if Trey Pippkin's has has mentioned a bunch, it means we're doing alright. Next one, a tease, it's a three one. A tease. It's a three teamer. It's gonna be a seven point affair, which is plus one twenty. On FanDuel. And here's what we're gonna do. If you agree, we're gonna take the Eagles down from minus nine and a half to minus two half against Washington. Who is just gonna have a bunch of people scratched and might not be good to begin with and had some quarterback issues already. Philly wins by a field goal. We're good. Hopefully, some in Romania. Be excited for that. Maybe at the the Patriots. We're gonna take them from plus two and a half all the way to plus nine and a half. So the cults really have to would have to kick their ass at this point. We would need Mac to completely melt down. I don't think that's happening. Saturday night. And then finally, the Seahawks taking them from five and a half to twelve and half against the ramps. Now my question is, do we do a seven point t's or or six point t's? If we wanted to get frisky about the Eagles, can they beat washed them by four? Does that make it more nervous than the two and a half? Can take on the three and a half or two and a half. No. Let's go. I think they think they can. Let's go. Let's play. it. Okay. Play it big. Six point t's is plus one forty. We're gonna take the Eagles to minus three and half. We're going to take the paths to plus eight and a half and the Seahawks to plus 11 app plus one 40, little less on that one, 200 K that's We're gonna take the Pats to plus eight and a half and the Seahawks to plus eleven at plus one forty. Little less on that one, two hundred k. That's right. Then, we're gonna do a little alternate line parlay that you could do on FanDover and take the paths to minus two and a half plus one thirty. The browns who probably have case key nam started, they're having some issues is why I get it, but that Vegas. And we don't trust Vegas. Plus one seventy minus three and half. We put a hundred k on that. Plus five twenty one. Plus five twenty one for the parlay, hundred k on that one. I like This is the Willie McGinnest parlay because he is gonna be there for NFL Network. It's the Patriots. It's the Browns. It's his teams. This is all for big William. And it's a Saturday thing. We'll know right away. We'll know if we won hundred k at plus five twenty one. We'll know at the end of Saturday night whether that one worked out. Pat's minus two and a half, Brown's minus three and a half. Finally, underdog part of the week. Texans. Yeah. To beat. Who's coaching in the Jack Where is that? It's Daryl Bevel. Daryl Bevel. Bangles. To win in Denver. I like it. Combo that is plus five seventy. We're gonna boost that up to 701. Come on. Give my give myself a fan door boost. Put thirty three k on that. What are you the most excited about? have all those Bens. I can't wait. I cannot wait to see what Cleveland brings amidst all this COVID stuff without Stifanski. All this stuff Can they hold their end of the bargain? Come on now, grounds. Also, little reverse ewing theory for them without Del Beckham, whose gone to the Ramsden who has immediately turned into an asset again. It's like what's going on It's like, really good. What's going on here? Alright. Those are the million dollar picks for week 15. You work in Saturday? Oh, I'll be there Saturday and Sunday. Let's go. Alright. Let's go. So we'll see on Good Morning Football with Sam on Fox this weekend. Good to see you as always. We're taping this. It is in the morning on Thursday. Tenderbar is coming out. On Friday, Ben Affleck is here. He's doing a lot of press. Not a lot of press about the Patriots come back. You've you've it's been more about you in the movie. I don't I don't understand why the patriots aren't at the forefront. You would think they would be, but you know, most people outside of New England believe it or not aren't as interested in talking about that. I I can't explain it. Well, I'm gonna start I wanna start sports NFLs can go the other stuff. You're friends with Brady. You love Brady. You appreciated the Brady run. Brady goes to Afflecks. You're rooting for Brady. But now the paths are good again. So I just need to know coming out of the gate where your heart is right now. Split? I mean, you know, look, you know, I grew up in England. I love the Patriots. And I always will, you know, like the red socks and socks and the whole thing. But, you know, it actually happens. I don't know if this happens to, like, to be honest, you know. I'm I'm in spirit of ours. Because when I was a kid, right? Like, we watched The Iron and Kevin and DJ and and Danny Ainge, like, play the Pistons. You know what I mean? You felt like God, you guys hate each We felt like, God, you guys really hate each other. Again, they really wanna win. They really wanna beat Lamphere. You know what I You know what I mean? really they wanna beat the Lakers. You know, Larry got a fight with Dr j and eighty one or whatever it was and it was like, Not that you wanna prove a fight. You wanna that's a good thing because that's not a thing that supports that. But it was emblematic of a certain kind of genuine competition that as I got a little bit older, well, a lot older. And I started to meet people who play professional sports, I started to get like, I started with I I got really lucky and because I was so into the stars. I got to know you know, I met Pedro at ninety nine and and then I got to know bunch of the guys in the 0304 team and and NFLs were great. The great team spirit and great guys But, like, overall, you one can't help but start to get the But for one thing, like, none of them were from the Chinchillas. Right? right. So they're kind of like, yeah, I'm from Oklahoma and now I play for Boston and I'd never been they're kind of like, yeah, I'm from blah blah blah. And now I played from Boston, NFLs been there. And I hope it's a great town, but they're not people who have a tremendous amount of allegiance for Boston and hope it's a great town. But there people who have a tremendous amount of, like, Allegiant for Boston itself, whereas the fans really do. And that's okay. But don't you start to get the sense that the business changed of sports, professional sports, somewhere between the eighties, nineties, and where it is today, where really it became about, like, when they all have the same agents, they all kind of wanna, like, No. It's like, yeah. Sure. We kind of put it on a show and we want to win us collectively or us individually, but there seemed to be less of a emphasis on, like, the regional aspect of it. And where we're from. And we're doing this for the and we're doing this from the city. And part of it is to kind of say that because you're supposed to. But it doesn't it it it was it became harder for me to invest in a in team purely based on, like, these guys love my talent. Because I knew that wasn't always the case. You know what I mean? I'd be happy that, you know, Jadaemon's gonna run off New York. You know? And and or a lot of other people. And then you go, like, you feel like, you still be trained. You know, how did you do this? And the truth is just because, like, you know, I don't know, Johnny. I don't know what his motivations were. But I think most people are kind of like, how do I do it? This is like another twenty million dollars down the street. You know? And I love, you know, Ken Moore Square. I don't get me wrong. But, like, I'm not gonna spend my life there, just not a field team. And the only guy in the contemporary sports era, I think who genuinely gave enough money, committed, like, put his money to where his mouth was, and committed to the idea of we're gonna build this franchise for this city. Was Tom Brady. And I'm not sure he was rewarded for that. Yeah. I think that's fair. I also think everything you're saying, which I agree with, I think that's a product of us getting older. Where you think, like, as you're younger and you're in your twenties and you just think, we're this together and and then eventually It was like Larry and the beer. We're having a beer actually here. No. But I think that dayman one was a good example because I remember writing about that for his pin when it happened. And I felt completely betrayed, but it was kinda eye opening because it's like, alright. We're rooting for the laundry. It's really about us. The players kinda come and go. They don't really care it's a job to them. You know? And I think the o four red Sox, one of the reasons that team won was most of those guys weren't from there. Some of them weren't even from America. They didn't care about a curse. We cared about the curse. You know, they didn't they didn't know about it. They didn't grow up with it. They weren't nervous about eighty six years of baggage when they're out there freezing cold at Fenway on a Sunday night NFLs it's thirty degrees out. They're not thinking, oh my god. So much baggage. I could feel all of it. Like they're just dudes professional Like, they're just these professional athletes. So yeah, I do think it's a So, yeah, I do think it's a product. I think that's true. I think it's really right. I think they I think it can maybe it can be both. You know what I mean? Which is they do bond and they do like their Which is they do and they do like their team. Like, one of the greatest things I've ever seen in sports, I think it was one of the ESPN was in Belar, was it the night of the game four, gaming it's Yankee's and he was kinda really relaxed and playing catch and he was sort of talking to some, you know, like, somebody recording him on the sideline and he said, you know, well, I'll tell you what. Don't let us NFLs tomorrow. Yeah. You know, because he Bens tomorrow, and he started putting together a scenario. That was, like, to all of us, like utterly impossible and absurd. NFLs had in history and certainly was never gonna happen in Boston. And yet to him, it was like, well, let us win them up because then we got Kurt on the mound, and then we got a and he put together this idea. Always found that, like, that moment I want to steal from me. I think that's a brilliant idea of a guy whose back is totally against the wall. The odds are entirely against him. He's completely comfortable with the idea that, well, if we get one of the lovely, you know, we could take advantage of that, and we can take another, you know, and it's possible. I can see the way all the way to the top mount numbers where everybody else just feels like, it's impossible. We'll freeze to the natural numbers. Right? Well, at that point, everyone had hit rock bottom, at that point, everyone had hit Rock bottom emotionally. They just lost nineteen to eight. I went to four and five, and it just seemed all but seems so improbable. I think that's the only way we could one. The more the more the years passed. It's like I it had to be just like this complete improbable miracle or else, if it didn't seem realistic at all, would it ever happen? I knew. But that I agree. At the time, I remember talking to my friends going, there's no way we're gonna be unless it's the most incredible comeback story ever. And by the way, if we do, the world series is total afterthought. Yeah. They won't even question. There's no they're gonna win the world series no matter who or what happens? Because it's clearly destiny. And now, it's it already was the world series. And in fact like who remembers in fact, it's the eight. Like, who remembers saying moments? Not a million. Kept a par, you know, like, ever a middle middle or three I didn't I mean, whatever it was. Like, I don't even like, Keith Volk was on the mountain. Well, I can't remember. Was it who caught the ball. There was no drama. There was no hey. It was just like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now we're gonna win because things are different. It Yeah. It was like blues brothers wrote a mission from like Blue Brothers, we're on a mission from God. This is happening. Yeah. It definitely I know it changed my mood. Just in life and my perspective on everything. And I'm sure I think everybody who cared about the team and then this Patriots run. I mean, Now, you think it's over, and everybody was so happy last year about oh, yeah. Oh, welcome to the real NFL. No more Brady No more Brady Bill check. And and then within a year, it's kinda back and it's retro, and you're dating JLo again. I I feel like we're in a time machine. It's the early two thousands, a young page trade team on rise? You guys are back? I can I can remember. I think we were doing Geely when the military kicked the field goal against Oakland, was it in the snow? In o three? Snow guys. O one. Yeah. Was that o one? But then it was first was it free though, wasn't it? No. The second one, the you're thinking the Carolina Super Bowl were the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I but I nonetheless, that was the era of the, like, you know, in the last Super Bowl, you know, before that, early two thousand time was eighty six. When we got run by the but the bears and Super Bowl shuffle, Brandon. So That's terrible. Wow. And yeah. So I'll you know, everything's come back around again. Everything's done. I saw you on Kimbell show last night, and I thought it was funny that he brought up when when you gave him the tip of where Brady was going? Well, because he immediately gave it to me and sound. I think we bet it, and I think you cost all of money. Because it's like, oh, Netflix got the inside info. I I broke up. You guys are guys are cheap, but could have been more than fifty bucks. It wasn't worth it. Yeah. think Brady was fooling that stuff out. He was he was probably using you to make sure you weren't, like, you know, that you weren't leaking info. don't know. The I think, actually, the truth was, there was a lot of there were a lot of considerations for him. You know, he's a he really is a good guy and a big part of. Ultimately, I think what matters to Tom is being close to his son who's in New York. And the California team's ultimately, I think, at the end of the day, if I had to guess. Yeah. That wasn't determining back. He's not a guy who wants to be that far away from his kid and and on game day who cares so much about seeing the game obviously. And And so whether or not it was the best deal, obviously history shows he's not somebody who just goes, well, what's the best number? What's the best deal? Ask, Boris, make me the most money. You know? It's like, what's gonna fit in my life? What's gonna work for my wife? What's gonna work for my children? And by the way, it doesn't matter where I go because I'm gonna order Super Bowl anyway. I mean, how many thousands of years would have taken for Tampa Bay to assist you. It's true. As you got, as you got older and more famous and more known. Was it do you find yourself? You have just more in common with somebody like Brady? Just that because you're going through a lot of the same what it's like to be in the public eye, how you have to be reserved, how anyone thing you say could get blown out, and just who do you trust all those all those things that, like, an a plus listener has to deal with? That may be true about some of this, but I wish I had more time to time. Right? I played catch with the man once NFLs realized how very little we haven't come. I mean, he was throwing the ball to me and I thought, I mean, I was praying to God. That I catch the ball, not just because I wanted to arrest the guy, which I very much did, because I really thought I would get hurt. If I didn't because it would come shows up right in front of face. You know what I mean? And after about ten minutes, he was like, you ready? And I said, III said, yeah. And he goes, alright. Now gonna start throwing them. And I said, oh my gosh. I am, what? Dumping a 30 miles an hour on dumping a thirty miles an hour on this. Because I'm very much at my, like, peak and really trying. And it was incredible. It was the most incredible, just not spending a ton of time around like pro athletes in terms of like, Hey, you know, come out on the court with us or whatever, you know, I'm sure anybody you see was a pro or a semipro or a great player in college, you know, they get into your pickup It was the most incredible just not spending a ton of time around like pro Afflecks. In terms of letter, hey, you know, come out on the court with us or whatever. You know, I'm sure anybody you see who's a pro or a semi pro or a great player in college they get into your pick up game. You really understand very quickly with the difference between excellence and fifty year old light minutes. But the so watch him do it. It could not be that much. Yeah. And also just watch what he's done. It's like, I don't know I don't know who's you know, they're very, very interesting Serena Williams. I mean, how many people have really Michael Jordan, how many people could really relate to I mean, how many people have really Michael Jordan? How many people can really relate to that, you know, the Braun? I mean, obviously, do very well, making a bunch of comparisons among people like that, and you understand that really well. But and and could could detail on Nuance is much better than could. But Ultimately, at the end of the day, there's ten people, men and women who have done they made that level of of what they do. So I have some things in common with Tom. I like to think like people both know who we are sometimes and we were in New England and, you know, but there's sort of about it. You know what mean? He's just like, and he also talk about never, you know, he has this incredible knack for maintaining discipline and that includes like a refusal to, to deviate in any way from the kind of bull Durham mean? He's just like and he also talked about you know, he has this incredible knack for maintaining discipline. And that includes, like, a refusal to to deviate in any way from the kind of bolder and platitude. know what I mean? That Kevin Kasner talked to Tim Robbins in that movie. No matter what they say, no matter what happens. And you know a lot of those people, you know, try to be provided. You know, in in an effort to, like, stoke conflict in what may or may not, but quite possibly could be. An environment where there is, in fact, personality conflict. And nonetheless, we just see, like, I mean, calm and you would never know. Great. Just try to win next week. Just having a good time. You know, just lucky to be here. As you know, doesn't comment on what it's like being, you know, the greatest ever It doesn't comment. I mean, sometimes he'll say, you know, appropriately competitive things and it satisfies the Bens. But he has this really rare for an athlete because that's not their business. Understanding of exactly where the line is about what to say entertain people, and never ever cost himself in terms of having to answer another question next day about what he NFLs before. I wonder if he learned some of that from Belletrec because Belletrec is the master of that. right. He never says anything interesting, even though he's an incredibly interesting, He never says anything interesting even though he's an incredibly interesting guy. he's fascinating, but he doesn't come off like a great time. I mean, look, I'm from New England. I love about chicken. We're moving for him all the time. I never got the sense that he was fun to play for. I never got the sense that he was like a Sterling Conversationalist. He's not charismatic. Crazy is like charismatic, you know, in the realm of George Putin or Carrie Grant, or one of those people You know what mean? No. My check's not at the Met Hall. Although I would pay a lot of money to see that. Right. But I'm not sure. But I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know. You're on a great time. You know, I mean, he and he's also enjoyable because he will sort of without saying it, kind of, stay fuck off to people all the time. You know, like Ridley Scott, a director. I just worked with interview in Russia. Where somebody I read it. read it. It was amazing. You just To see the the video. I've been to have that. I've been saw it. I've read it. Yeah. You know, the guy kind of gives him a back end and compliment the kind of becomes accustomed to it's like routine. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know, this this movie is not just bad as your previous fins, you know, in that sense and have to go, thank you. That's so nice. And he was just like, fuck up. up. It was so abrupt. But I was a journalist, like, understood. You know, like, he just he's just gonna point his life where he just doesn't care. Yeah. You know what I mean? If you're gonna solve me, I'll just tell you fuck off and end the interview. And that's an immovable position to be and kind of funny. But Bellatrade kind of reminds me of that. And it says he doesn't tolerate any, he won't Brook any that in the sense that he isn't tolerating any he won't brook any nonsense. He's also older than Tom. He brings a little more gravitas. You know, he's older than some of these other grizzled Ringers to kind of probably see themselves as, you know, the real work at a lunch, pale veterans to this New England sports world and don't think anybody can trump BeloCheck NFLs capacity. And also, he's just like, BeloCheck exhibits an attitude publicly that many others exhibit privately that don't feel comfortable to say, which is basically like, you don't fucking understand this game even remotely the way I do. So Sean's fuck Right. Yeah. We have to I mean, that's the vibe you get from you. You know, I'm gonna end this now. And it's it is very appealing. It's so a way because it's you know, you wish you could have that kind of sense of self. But Tom is a I would say Tom is another level of master because it's not about just I'm gonna draw a line, and I'm gonna tell you, you know, I'm just gonna basically set a boundary which says you're not entitled to know any of these things. And I don't care to tell you. And I don't give a you and don't give shit. What you think about shit what you think about that. It's it's like making you feel those, though the questions have been answered and you've had satisfying exchange and, you know, like, you you do know him. He he likes you and not only when he was out of the press conference, he realized, legally, the same thing. You know, he seems same charming, though. But That's a little ambitious. But, like, he actually gonna answer my question many thing I wanted to know or even respond to my set, you know? Sort of like a Ronald Reagan level guest for communication. Well, wait a second, go a sec. Go backwards. So you're playing catching them because I've heard this about Brady that he'll be on vacation with people or somebody will be over for the weekend or whatever. And he basically just eventually sees anybody who seems relatively athletic as somebody who could catch footballs for him for an hour. And leverages the whole I'm famous, of course, NFLs play catch of the, and you go into it thinking, oh, cool. We're gonna throw the football. But it becomes an actual workout for him. Because I've heard all these stories about people who had no idea, like, they brought, like, tennis sneakers and all of sudden they're running twenty five yard outs. Because Brady needs a workout. First of all, I wasn't even on vacation with him. I happened to meet the same place, and and he knew I was there. So you're coming down. Let's Let's have lunch or something. And I thought, oh, gosh. Maybe I'll get to see Tom. That'd be great. You know? And and then because maybe he goes, yeah. She's not a great receiver. You know? She's tired of catching balls for me. So you're running against the most. To me, I I think this is like a guy who's gone. Should I make some of those dreams come true tonight? Yeah. I'll change someone's life. Hey, you wanna catch my football season? Because it is, like, one of the most memorable days of my life. Yeah. You think he just wants to keep his keep his arm loose. Like, you don't know it's a natural workout for him. It's a it's definitely a workout he uses that as a workout, and he works you out. And all of a sudden, you're like, okay. I'm gonna work at harder than I have twenty five years, and I'm gonna pretend that something that I'm accustomed to and that I can tolerate it. Even though I'm sure it's evident that I can't. And I'm what I'm really sure of is that when he sends me thirty five yards, house. He has to wait the amount of time and he normally waits for a guy to run nine yards. Right. So he's doing the, like, calculus in his head of, like, nope. Not yet. Not yet. You know? But he's still, nonetheless, as they able to calculate for, like, extremely slow middle aged man's pace. Yeah. Running as fast as he can to turn around. I think he's in the NFL and probably running the roof totally wrong, you know, and have no idea. And nonetheless, you run, like, you know, where it does you to go, you turn around, and the second you turn around. You know? And what's amazing. Yeah. He's working. I thought he's using it as workout, but he can use me every day like that. I mean, it it's true. Well, he does it he does it with his kids too. So I'm sure it doesn't even matter how fast you're going. That's probably part of the challenge for him. It's like because usually, there there's videos of him with, like, his two boys and you know, they're taking turns and so a twelve year old, he's got to calibrate it a certain way, probably weirdly helps him. I I think it's amazing how obsessed he is with football. Like, at some point, and I don't know what year it was, he decided to just construct every choice he made in his life around being as good as he possibly could at football. Like, I don't Like, I guess, the only actor who you've maybe read was kinda like that was Daniel Day Lewis. Right? When he would do a part he would just completely immerse himself into it in every aspect. I don't think so. The stories I've heard kinda lied about that. The change to me because I haven't Tom, maybe I have the White House correspondent or something after, like, maybe after the I mean, yeah, I knew he was. It was after the the season when he replaced blood. So and that was it. That had happened. He was, like, the star and I met him and I was like, oh my god. You're the king of Boston. This is for the young kid. You know, I was four years younger than me. And I was like, hey, kid. You know, Right. Really? But, like, I could NFLs he was young. Yeah. And he and he was, like, oh, no. You know, he's very humble in south of basing and and he but he was a different person. You know? He didn't have that thing we see in him now. He definitely had that sort of Here I am. I'm gonna do my Bens. All shots. Hey, I'm trying. And then he wants some and then he went on, like, a ten year drop. Yep. We call it draft, you know, for those of us who, you know, like, as if there's most of us our whole life is a Super Bowl draft. I believe it's like fuck you. It's and then I remember talking to him at some point during that time, and I detected there was, like, a change where he kind of you know, he was thinking a lot about it. It'd become more meaningful to him. He didn't like he didn't like the feeling. He took it. And I think some people would go, hey, once I got a new contract. I went and he found, I think, that that was the thing that really drove. He loved that feeling and wanted it. And he I've ever said people just don't understand our heart this. People don't understand what it takes. People don't understand level of commitment it takes to do this. To win it. You know, they just it it's hard to get. And I felt like more kind of, you know, sport. I know it's hard. It's, you know, like the usual sort of things you you know, like the usual sort of things you hear, And I graduated together. He said something similar. And I remember thinking, this is a really different guy. This is a guy who's really pissed off, but I'm really serious about this and not fucking around at all. And that then seemed to be reflected, you know, in terms of what I saw, which was a lot of what people saw, you know, in talking to his his training, his regimen, his approach, his, you know, sleep, his he just I think he made a decision at some point. Like, I wanna do the absolute best I can and I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna dedicate all my every part of this because this is when I'm not gonna sell myself short. I'm not gonna give myself the other day. I'm not gonna cut myself a break. I'm not by being overly serious, but by just somehow he had a a level of commitment to it that changed. I I think he may have surprised himself. By what happened the first time he won. Yeah. And then he I think then he decided, like, I can do this. I wanna do it and I have something to do. I don't know what that was. And I think he's he's great. He's gifted. You know, obviously, they're incredibly, aesthetically gifted quarterbacks. Right? My whole I mean, there are people who can do incredible things, you know, running sideways and throw the ball hundred yards to that stuff. And I've thought lot about this. What is it that separates Tom Brady from the human beings? Why is he able to do this? Because it's he has a great arm. Like, he talks other I've talked to a lot of other players. Why? Why? Why? And then I'll go, yeah. He's got a good arm. You know, daddy's really accurate. Makes decisions. Like, you get little pieces. You know what I mean? He wants to win or he knows how to get along with people or he knows that he's a good leader and, you know, he can actually people but there are a lot of people who like that. And my theory and maybe just because it relates to my own work is that And and kind of what I get from him. The difference between him and other people is that he just doesn't have that part of the brain that gets nervous. He doesn't get tight. And by getting tight, ruined. That's why guys draft them up, the clutch play. You know what I mean? We've all seen. There are famous pieces. The the the plays, they make ten thousand times. The round ball, ball wrapped in your hands, you know, these moments that It's like, god, why didn't I do that? This is what I've been doing as his childhood, you know? And also that sort of Seattle throwing the intersection, you know, that kind of panicked uncertainty that happens when everything's on the line because even when we were playing catch, she was we were just playing catch. She would say, alright. It's the super you know, four on the sixteen yard life. It's worth it down. We have six seconds. We win this. It's everything. You miss it's over. And I like, even just listening to him, I I'm, like, out there and just feel the grass. You know what I mean? But I thought we were in, I was like, kills mean? But I thought we were in two. I was, like, I'm I'm just checking. God, it kills me. You know, I I would do anything to catch this ball. And I I Bens out. I was a little and I, like, because I was so slow, it was a little past me. And I feel like I 4828 out and dove over and flipped away. I was doing, like, bad man at the time. I was like, never mind. My career, you never mind my aging body. But he just because people have talked to me about how, like, you get my huddle with the guy. And the host lady was anxious. Everyone in the home is anxious. You're behind. That's such such a great fourth quarter team. Such a great, really worse, a great come from behind you. Yeah. Just going like, yeah, we're gonna win. This is our way to win. Okay, guys. You know, they get there all panicked. He and it was just an not a problem. You do this. You do this. You do this. Figure it out. And, yeah, he's looked at the defense and taking it apart and taking advantage of what he knows. And all of those things, but ultimately, someone told me a similar story about John Montana, which I'm sure you've heard, where The John Kennedy story. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Getting the hot on when they're all panicked. And he goes, Hey, is that he goes, hey, is that Chirteenth? And they all look over and, you know, then they're just thinking about something else and they realized, like, Jones, alright. Like, he's not that uptight about this. And that's really bad. Like, I've noticed that in a much lesser too much lesser degree as a director. Like, she has to give people the Bens. Like, it's okay. Don't worry. We're going to gonna succeed. It's all gonna be fine. You can do it. Even if you don't believe it. You know, if you don't communicate that, It's never gonna happen. It's a great point. Calmness, competitiveness. That's the other thing with them. And it's funny because with you, I remember writing this, and then I sent it to and you were like, yeah, you hit it. But when you had you had a big comeback. You're you're the big rise. You're the fall. Everyone kicks third on you. Come back. Oh, Affleck back. then You put together a few good things. That's like, Affleck, fuck it back. And then he decided to do Batman. And people are like, that's weird. Why is he doing Batman? He's put together this career as a director, you know, he's he's really, really won the respect of Hollywood and why is he doing a superhero movie? And And I was like, hey, like, because he's fucking competitive. If he's gonna have the comeback, he wants the actual comeback with capital c. He wants all of it. Now he's gonna be Batman because fuck everybody. And that was kind of your mentality, that was kind of under mentality. Right? Yeah. I mean, really, mentality was like, I thought it mattered so much. Like, because people had been so like, had denigrated me, like, despite the fact that I think, well, wait wait a minute. I thought the whole reason I became successful was that you thought I was able to do this and I had internalized that And it was meaningful to me. And then people are going, you can't do it. You don't belong here. You don't deserve know, deserve this. It becomes this intense take it away thing. Like, never mind this person. They shouldn't have what they have. It should say, a total, like, de legitimization. nation. So from 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, you know, it was, and it's a kind of a younger person's draw in some ways, but there's just something proof, you know, I can do So from o three to 6789, ten, you know, was was and it's a kind of a younger person's drive in some ways, but there's just something proof. You know, I I can do this. I belong here. You gotta get rid of me. I'm not I mean, I I know I have something to offer. I know I need in effect. I can do it even though you're turning back and that's the only motivation at that point that really works. Because if people are telling me, and I'm sure probably fuel time. It is draft pick and so on and so forth. Like, it's very common. You know, like, really? You don't respect you don't respect me? Well, let's see. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna lay it out to our mailing terms. And if you if you wanna tell me I'm doing good at that point, fine. I'll I'll have failed on my own merits, but I'm gonna take a crack at it. Which is why when I made a gun, maybe a gun, it was so incredibly stressful because I knew if this doesn't work on that work. And when I made a gun, I think this doesn't work. I'll never be able to act. Their act in movies again because they'll write me off because I think you can just direct. And so having done those things, I sort of relaxed. I felt as though, not that I had proved ever there, but I didn't wanna be told I was the greatest driver of that. I didn't wanna be praised and I don't need that. I just don't wanna be, like anybody, treat you unfairly or told her, no, good. Yeah. That sucks. You know, and it feels bad. And and I wanted at the time I had kids I wanted my kids to be proud. I wanted to do something that was important to my kids. I want my wife to respect me, you know, all these things like go into this I wanted my wife to respect you know, all these things, like, go into this stuff, like, how you and unfortunately, like, as people, I think it's an evolutionary thing, like, if you're not brought along on the hunting party, you know, in the, you know, priority old days, you know, by the other the the rest of the village, you'll start. So being included and being accepted, even though it doesn't really mean that. No. But I think to the brain on some level means can I survive? Which is why ostracization and exile is one of the cruelest most painful things you can do is why, you know, teenagers to suffer from that, like, tendency to exclude, you know, certain members of the why do we recognize that it's so cool and excruciating? So I felt that And I felt like, okay. You know, I have something to prove. And I gotta prove it. And and at the end of the day, we'll just see it. And it was years and years of giving up a lot of my life work because I just thought, well, maybe I I clearly believe that on some level, like, I guess I do suck. I saw it. But, you know, maybe I can not feel this way. Maybe I can do something that happens on that. I do know what I'm talking about. And I But I thought, like, I can't rely on my talent because I didn't believe in it. I could only rely on how many hours of debt. So I just worked every eighteen hours a day, every single day. You know? And so I was exhausted. Only thought about it would be all day long. Probably very healthy and specific way. We've gone, maybe gone. And then it just worked well enough that people were like, alright, it's not shit. You know, even though I love them. It's this day. It's probably my favorite NFLs that I've made. And then the town, as it was coming out, I've ever been in Toronto, feel Bens to know I won one of the awards awards, pundits, whatever. It was like it doesn't look like it's gonna work. It seems like it's gonna bomb. I'm sorry. I thought this it really looks like it's gonna boom. You know, like, I couldn't believe you would say that and this is true and there's nobody telling me this and And maybe they were afraid because I remember they spent more money at last minute, like, to to to get people to go. And NFLs it works enough so that, okay, you're gonna you're gonna be able to, like, work. You're gonna have a career at least for the next few years. Unless disaster strikes again. But it meant that the last chapter of my career wasn't the final. Wasn't gonna be defined by, like, ballgame. See if the latter. He came up. He was a disaster. He was a shit. We all told him so we never saw him again. Which was not how I want my life to go. And not how I felt to shit on some level. And, you know, then I so, yeah, it was like something approved. And then I did Argo, really just because I was a middle eastern studies manager. I got the script. I didn't wanna just be I thought people were going to sort of say, well, you can do movies, but only a boss. That's a thought you know, you know, because of the hunting of the talent probably beyond it. I ended up accompanying NFLs So I picked this movie that was way outside anything else that I had. People had seen me do, even though secretly it was between Hollywood and the Middle East were sort of the two things I knew really well. And was well suited for and had good support from Grant George, really smart guys and Crichton owned. Brilliant and really golden concept was genius. And, I mean, that was a not me alone. It was a very and a brilliant cast And then when that would be worked, I didn't even really expect that or have anything to prove. it. So at that point I felt like I felt a little bit like, okay, I don't need to, this is a, this is the unhealthy perspective, this idea that I have to be making all these decisions about my life, predicated on like what somebody else says on, on Twitter or, you know, or, or on the comment section of like, w that's not gonna make me at that point, I felt like and I felt a little bit like Okay, I don't need to. This is a this is the unhealthy perspective. This idea that I have to be making all these decisions about my life predicated on, like, what somebody else says on on Twitter or or, you know, or or on the comment section of, like, a -- Right. Like, what that's not gonna make me happy. I mean, they had they don't know me anything to do with what I wanted to. And by the way, if you give people the power, to sort of make you feel satisfied, I am happy, according to the degree to which they tell you, you're okay or good enough or a good person. Then, like, situations that happen where somebody completely mischaracterizes what you say and decide to say, like, you know, you're a terrible ex husband a sense of their dad. You know, if if you don't really understand that that's entirely false, And, you know, you know, and that this you don't really that these opinions are often come from people who haven't even, you know, who have just him in the last article and I have no idea. They don't know me. Not only that, but they don't even know what the source material is that they're referring to because we just don't Take the time to do that. You know? It's just what's on my newspeaker? I think I'm gonna rate a response. Then I'd really be hostage to that. And I have to worry about it every second because everybody liked it. And so I just felt like, you know what? These last two movies Yeah. -- kids didn't say My son's getting older. He likes superheroes, you know, my middle child might be into an I know my daughter wouldn't be interested in in Batman and my oldest daughter, but I was like, I wanted to move my kids. And, yeah, I wanted to work, you know, and I wanna try this. And I also want to sort of, like, Daredevil always bothered me because it was a movie I so didn't like. Yeah. You know? And and I had loved that hero as a kid. And so it it it ate that because I thought, god, we had the best character and and really fucked it up. And it was right before they really understood how to do those movies and the terrible fucking irony to me as that cabin finding was on that. Mhmm. But he just was, like, a a subordinate, like, a third guy. Oh, he couldn't have shaved it. I keep on thinking, I shit, I just turned my hand, and then I fuck all these people. What do we do? Because I've never if there's anybody and I've I've never thought this is true about anybody until I looked at his career. If there's NFLs one person who I would add actually believe when they told me, look, this is what the audience wants. It would be him. Because he seemed to have, like, an airing instinct for, you know, two set pieces, two jokes, four of the heartstrings, make one of the suits, you know, two set pieces. You know what I mean? Like yeah. And then, you know, right in the village, like, for what he does, he that genre of those COVID19. And by the way, there's never been a more successful producer in history. Ever by far. And go back to where are you? Darryl's Aienk and anybody else, you know. She told me the mill. It's like anyway, so it's like you find out you were working with a good email and he was, you know, somebody is VP and they made him be quiet. It's like, god. The answer was right there. Going back to that back to that stretch because they the first time Damon came on this pod, and we we had, like, we talked about everything, but we one of the things we're talking about was when people when you started to have a little bit of, you know, you had a couple misses, and people started comparing the 2U against each other. And he was the most upset about that than anything because he was like, it was like, I was making every artistic choice either. Like, the the narrative became Affleck grabbing paychecks, and Damon's the one who wants to do good work. And he was, like, fuck that. That was But but he's getting paid. But but he he was really hurt by that because he you guys were so close and, you know, NFLs he's protective of you obviously, but I think he did feel bad and he felt uncomfortable. Anytime you see something that's like, first of all, we're, you know, best friends and we love each other and and we do really root for each other. And I think she was I imagine kinda going like, hey, I feel bad for my friend. This isn't really fair. And b, like, don't attribute to me, like, some great wisdom that I'm the genius because it's we have very similar taste in movies. And it wasn't like I was out there going like, Scorsese. down. Now I'm going to do No. No. Fast on that. I'm gonna do so. I mean, Chris, You know what I mean? Part of what you're as an actor, I I know this is a difficult thing to see because you don't know what the range of things you're choosing from, what your opportunities are. But you're because it's collaborative, you're a hostage to a number of other things. You're never gonna be better than me too. You're never gonna be better than director. You're never going to you know, you're bound it by what's available to you. So really if you want to evaluate an activist's choices, you would have to look, you'd have to know, which they guard this information, so you never could. You would have to know, what were the movies that were offered to you? What did you take? You know, what did you do? Was that This would be a great website. I I would go to this website all the time if it existed. The night two movies. Twilio turned down in two thousand five. I always wanted to do a fantasy fantasy actors thing. You know, there's a fancy football. We're like, okay. Here are my five women. And we're gonna see how their movies do. And you can take five, and we can do picks. And the problem is that the metrics aren't exactly the same. In sports, you know, you know it, the OBPS, and that's absolutely. Whereas, you know, you can make very sorry if it's about, well, yes, it didn't make as much money, but it's a better movie, or got awards, or people blah blah blah blah blah. But but but ultimately, that would be an interesting exercise because it would reflect, you know, what was actually available to them. And somebody once told me when I was really unguiding Tom who owned Lakeshore. And I did this two MillionDollar movie called going on the way, reported chasing Amy in ninety four or something. And he said and he had made a bunch of money, I think, sound furniture in Chicago. And gotten to the mood business kind of to, you know, as a sort of quasi retirement, like, oh, try something with this money, I mean. He ended up winning an Oscar with with Conifer, but Tom Rosenberg. And he said, you know, in your life, you know, at the end of the road, you should be able to look back and say, you know, I missed AAAA bunch of good opportunities. That's where you wanna be. You wanna be there going, I should have taken that one and I should have taken that. Because what that will tell you is you're being discriminating enough. You're saying no and Oh, I just You're being careful. Yeah. I thought I was just saying, I never forgot it, you know. I didn't understand at the time. I was like, say, no. I'm trying to get bills. Like, I'm not really in the position to by the way, Tom, you just paid me eighteen thousand dollars for four months, but But, you know, it was like, okay. So there is some value to to what you say no to. And The really difficult thing is that for actors, your whole career is trying to get people say yes to you, get an agent. Get a tradition, get the job, actordirector you. And then one thing happens usually. And then you're it's all about what you say notes. And you have to radically shift those gears literally from, like, sixth gear into reverse. And go, okay, it's a totally different game. And that's hard. And who it's really hard for a lot of times is the people around actors like, like agents or managers or producers who and that's why Patrick Pietzel is is so my agent. I think it's really brilliant. Because he always got that. He knows exactly when to chase and when it's time to to be discriminating. But for a lot of people, obviously, who who's living is tied up in your living. You know, it's like, just take it. Take it. Take it. More is more, do it. Yeah. They're offering assistance to that. And we've got a commercial and we got a commercial opportunity. Yeah. A dog food and you eat at the bottom all, but I think you look good, you know. And there there is that's a tough thing to get used to trips up a lot of people and that was one of the hard things for me because there were movies I did. It's it's not totally I did do some movies for money because it was a lot of money. Because from my point of view, I was like, hey, bro. My mom made twenty five thousand dollars a year, teaching school, public school, you back in us. And then eventually, I think she got to, like, thirty five, you know, would go up two and a half percent of years. She worked thirty years. My dad, I don't know why he he was a Toyota mechanic, a janitor, at Martin. Not a long way. We he had a old seventy six red duke sky art, which we had a mess up. And so when somebody was saying to me Bens million dollars, which by the way is actually, you know, four. But but certainly, what I understand too. I would just think it's irresponsible of these things. Like, how could I possibly face my friends and my family and tell them that I said no to that. And it wasn't until I realized that, like, actually, after you can pay your bills, money isn't that important. Doesn't mean it doesn't make you happy. But we collectively share that mythology, that idea, that this is it. Well, if I won the lottery, you ask, like, you know, ten people. What's the one thing that would make you happy? Probably eight of them will say, winning the lottery. And I've always thought there'd be a great document and lottery winners because I thought you'd find a half number from this. Right. We were just talking about how many how much luck you did with the movie. I think sports is like this too. Right? You have a team. Look at the Patriots this year. Like, if anyone takes back Jones before number fifteen, this whole Patriots season is clearly different. You need all these different pieces. You did a couple of fridge settings. And movies are the same way. We we do this rewatchable podcast where we break down these different movies. And when you're saying that you're saying research of how the movie was made in the casting, what ifs, and it could have been this person, and it turned out to be this person instead. And a lot of times, a greatest thing for the movie that the first person passed NFLs the second person took it. You've had a couple like that. Like, I still feel like runner runner could have been a good movie. Like, The script was good. There was something there and it got screwed up for you know, it got screwed up. Oh, I don't know why I got screwed up, but I'm not gonna say it. But, you know, movies do get screwed up for various reasons. And sometimes they're is easy to identify. And like you say a lot of times, people go into it like a movie from the outside NFLs you approach it, movie that ends up failing, doesn't look any different movie that ends up being a successful change in your life. It says that you're like, it's smart, it's interesting, talented people are working on it, basically, I think the most accurate way to think of it are like bets. You know what I mean? Like in in glass. Okay. The count gets good, you know you're a favorite. You know it's a ten inch tech. You're fifty two percent favorite. That's about as good as you ever get. That So if you're if you can bet on a fifty two percent favorite, theoretically, mathematically, you should bet all your money. But only if you can bet all your money over ten thousand Bens. Because fifty two comes up as you know, like barely more than coin toss, you lose that you know, five times in a row. But you won't lose it, you know, you'll you'll win it exactly fifty two times out of a million. So, you know, you never get a chance probably to make enough movies to fade the variants and the the probability of the ways at which, you know, even big favorites still always come in. But you still it's a it's a bet. Not in a monetary way, but I'm like, I bet on the filmmaker. I bet on the script. I believe in this. You gotta know it was still a good batch. Daily was a batch. Marty Brass had done my favorite movie in that row. Yeah. He had he had done Beverly was comp. He had done Bens to a woman. I liked Mitra Black. He was a little long. I thought he was a really smart articulate guy. But he was a guy going, like, yeah, I've done a lot of commercial movies. I wanna do a, you know, personal movies. I have an art film. And then a bunch of things happened to it that caused it to it didn't work. There's no version didn't work on our lives. There's no there's no snider or cuts. Out there that you're gonna you know, I don't know if that would be great. Scott. I'm not sure we have the same success as this matter. But he he was part of the big one. Everybody wanted that. You know what I mean? Like and I I had been in progress was such a big hit that people were like, okay, studios just look at it in the metric. I'm like, who makes us money? You know? Okay. We'll take this. And Marty was was willing to live with me and a lot of other people want to do it, who are now probably like, you know what I really wanted to do? And I did it. And and then because Jennifer and I were a relationship after movie came out, and initially, that relationship got some sort of positive attention. It was on a lot of, you know, it was on us weekly, which was like they're only two or three tablets. That was the high us weekly. At the time you guys were carrying them at the time. You you guys were carrying them for a month. They're they're yes. I they should have sent me stock, young winner. I would like My own exact. I mean, whether you wanna have been or not. And they and the conventional wisdom was, like, oh, that's what they wanna see. Because in the original version, it wasn't a love story. She laughed in the middle. I die at the end, and it was like a kind of a bummer, you know. And and and it also didn't quite have the catharsis or poignancy that you need to have with a, you know, kind of wrist slashing in the movie. And then the studio cited, well, look, you know, hey, oh, everybody loves them together. It's a love store, and we we did five week solutions to make it into a Okay. See love story by which point they are sweetly situations which never become like the contemporary tabloid, you know, like taste because they're gonna change next week. So by the time they had made that everyone was like, what's sick of that? Why are they in our face every day? Why don't you shove it down our throat? But what do you think? I publish it a weekly. You know what I mean? I know that was that was the start of the era of pictures of you getting coffee. Which are now we're in, like like, year nineteen of just that could be a coffee table book of just all the time that you're holding or latte. Will that get a how fucking interesting is it? Yeah, man. There he is. Let's call it. Oh, he's taking the garbage. Let's get a shot. People are like, oh, because you, you know, you coordinate and you do this stuff and you go I remember, I looked at an old clip recently. I'm like, access Hollywood from that time. And it was Pat O'Brien, Brock who had segwayed into working for entertainment journalism after his stint with the NBA. And he said he was like, whoa, what's pride to see going out to dinner at the Ivy. He's not a Yeah. That's not like Oh, so don't go to a restaurant. Yeah. So that's clearly the fighting on the house. Your attention. Yeah. So NFLs literally spent years. I was like, okay. I'm just if the message is, your life is gonna be this unless you make your life utterly pedestrian. Okay. I can do that because I like to take my kids to can do that because I like the pedestrian way. I'll take a kid's school. I'll get coffee. I'll go home. I'll do my work. And that wasn't nonetheless, it was still like, well, look, he gets coffee. And then that's the thing. So what is it? At an expensive coffee NFLs coffee baker. What did you do? Starbucks for? Should you have, like I'd like to get this house. I don't like those companies. IIII mean to say till they pay me and make me official and best. But there is a brand of coffee that I grew up with, like and, you know, that's what I like. Yeah. And, you know, and I like Jack in the Box too. You know what I mean? There things that I that's fine. You know? And and but just the idea that that's, like again, it's some of this idea. I'm, like, oh, you're trying to show us that that you Ringers coffee. I'm really not. I really wish you would just not be there. coughing. I don't want you there. I don't need that. It's not fun for exposure. That's fine for me. You know, I don't I'm not sure. I didn't get known as a guy who thinks I stopped it. I mean, his people I need to know that order. Productive dollars. I mean, you've had one of the strangest celebrity experiences I think of anybody because not only the ebbs and flows, but you've been in some big celebrity relationships. You just had it this week. You talked about it on a Jimmy Show last night. You do a two hour stern interview. Which I'm trying to steer toward topics that you didn't cover in that. But you you talked about your wife and stuff gets aggregated from it. And all of a sudden, it seems like you're shitting on your ex-wife and if you actually read it carefully, you it and all on it seems like you're shitting on your ex wife. And if you actually read it carefully, you weren't. So you talked about on Jimmy Show. I don't wanna go over too much, but My default is we we have a daughter that's basically are the same age. And anytime something like that happens to you, I always think like, What would that be like first kids when they read something like that? And how would I deal with it? If it were me and I had to talk to my kids about hey, this happened. I have to explain it. So what was that part of the process like? You know, because I spent so much time dealing with other stuff, which was initially hurtful. Like, don't say that I'm shallow, superficial. That's not what I am or don't say that about. And then I said, what I thought, like, people always gonna say with you. Out of shit. It's about my work. That will define me at the end of the day. That's my control over. And so I really kind of worked hard to sort of just get free of that. But then I had kids, that's really the only thing which if someone's in a touch might show them and NFLs ex wife, and I think it's really, really important. I mean, I don't know how else to define someone's character. As essence, other than how they treat the parents of their kids. And not only that, but what was depressing about that, but one thing is just to give my kids the impression that I've ever saying to negative next life, it is deeply responsible, wrong, and the worst thing that could happen. Because I don't believe that I think it's true, and I'm acutely aware of the agreed to it. Children, particularly at divorce, but any children one of their most basic fundamental needs is to know their parents respect for that. They want it and and it's certainly the least I can do. At his back, it happens to be true. respect him on a great deal. We've worked really hard to go through this process carefully. And you know, so so and also it's not even read it. It's like, there's an interesting link I think from the show the next day. It's about twelve minutes. And maybe I'll I'll send it to you and you can put it up when it was probably available, I would say, where he analyzes. And he does a much better job with me than I do. The the difference between what I said, NFLs our conversation was. And and it's a two hour conversation. It's not like it, you know, you don't get a chance to get the gist. We're over and over and over. I talk about the pain and difficulty of divorce and why is it painful in my I talk about the pain and difficulty of divorce. And why is it painful? For my case, and in case my ex wife, principally because you know, children experience pain from them. And you have to weigh that against what will be the difficulties they have if we stay in this marriage. To know false to NFLs minds, to know the idea that, first of all, it offends me that I'm I would be so stupid and immature. To think that anyone else is responsible for what me drinking? Like, what did Yeah. -- hand your hand and, like, that's that's me. Okay. Let's see it real clear. Everything I've ever done, good or bad. And in the case of the good, I've often benefited from smart people. In case of of all the things that I I did this. I can to that. That's the accountability for that. And when I've heard people, I make a mess. Listen. I don't have any confusion. By whose fault that is. I certainly go to treat that to my ex wife. And the idea that I would cast me in a light that is a worse insult than anything anybody has ever said about me. Because I and and I've spent years NFLs years giving interviews and talking about this. I mean, latency and science. So, I mean, even a cursory Google search will reveal Affleck of instances where I say precisely the opposite of it. Which is why you know So when you know it's when you know it's snowballing and there's like that half hour there where it's like, oh, shit. This is actually gonna become a thing. What's your instinct? Like, do you want to like almost go on Twitter and try to stop do you wanna, like, almost go on Twitter and try to stop it? Or do you just, like, oh, shit. This next twenty four hours gonna suck. Problem is just not a stockable thing because when it's rude, because the people who who who decide to pull a phrase you know, out of this conversation and isolate it in a headlight. The clickbait practice itself is small. And I don't think there's any changing because it's just how people make money and the hardest thing to get people to do is to work, you know, in a way that is concentrated into pocket. They make money this way. Right? And we've all clicked on you won't believe what does he say about such as action? You click on it. NFLs you go, like, put it in the scene. Why don't you but you realize that's not the the point was to get you to go there because now they've already made money. So they don't care if you're satisfied by what they say. They care that they successfully lured you to their platform because they measure eyeballs. And according to the number of eyeballs that come, they sell ads and they make more money. So that practice is just catastized and become less and less responsible. used to be you had to sort of be vaguely connected to the truth. And now, let's pull them and grab them. What's the most? And I can tell NFLs I do interviews, oftentimes the whole goal of the person. They're sort of listening to you and going, yay. What can I use? Like, but can you say something about it? You know, but can you say something, you know, like, that's the whole goal. Whether it's the editor tying that to it, that's what it's gonna make you the most money. I don't really care about acting in your process or the movie or any of the shit. Just wait and see if you can blow your stuff up so they can make money. That was the worst thing about when you came on my HBO show. When we did, they said, I thought we had a really good interview. Yeah. But we were talking about the Affleck And you guys have tried animated. Good morning. I mean, I mean, I suppose there's probably a drugs to get drugs in the morning, but really. I mean, again, I don't it's just I don't think people really looked at that and thought, peace struck. They did you know, I was very adamant. And continue to be, like, ready. Yeah. But we talked for, like, we talked for, like, fifty minutes that day and that the conversation we had was at least ten or twelve. And at one point, you got super animated, and that was the part people cut. But, I mean, I was there. I was like, we was ten in the morning. He was definitely not drunk because people ask me what's going on with that was definitely that drunk. Because people asked me if it was going over that, like I was like, I don't know. He he flew cross country the day before. And But but it was unfortunately right now. Nothing's going on. I get interviewed. Okay. I know. Are you working on all the things I care about? And that's doesn't make you to in fact, when I had been drunk in the past, you would know it because I'd be served just like my tendency was to get just very quiet. Like, that wasn't like a crazy drug. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Those are people probably The point is, you're right. They it's it's what can we seize upon And it really doesn't matter whether you think it's true. In fact, that's totally wrong. It's like, can we plausibly use this? And so or I can maybe be sued. That's their ultimate defense. Well, you can't sue us because the words can't the words are there. And it's it can't be you're supposed to be better. The NFLs of journalism have to do with truth, accountability, and impartiality, and that's what you're supposed to have done in college to learn. Yeah. We lost we lost a lot of good we lost a lot of good interviews with you over the years because the ebb and flow of this. Because I think you get you get this to chain it by the whole machine sometimes. And then you go then you come back and do it again. I do because I like to talk to I like I'd like to talk to you. I'd like to talk about this stuff. There are movies that I'm really proud of and I wanna promote. And inevitably, something happens like this. Right? Like, really? What's I, maybe I should just do the robotic thing or just not do what's I mean, maybe I should just do the robotic thing or just not do it. I know if I don't do it, you know, you more but And NFLs, of course, the illusion is that there's a win. You can't, man. You're never gonna do You read the robotic like answers. They're gonna say, he's stiff and fake and blah blah blah blah. The only way is to create a totally artificial life on social media, relentlessly advertise that, and sort of hope people believe you. And even then and that's not something I'm talking with and because I really do believe in being honest. And and I think so so you have to accept that this kind of misinterpretation has happened to me and worse has happened events, I know. Worse, punishment for no offense, you know. And in this case, the one thing the reason why this doesn't bother me on a personal battle, is that it's so obvious that anybody who reads this, not one person who read it, if you ever read about this. Anybody who listens to that as citizens. This is ridiculous. It's not fair. So maybe it becomes a moment where people sort of go like, okay, we can't go that far. Howard's very, and I'm really grateful to him because I think it was such a he's not a kiss ass or a guy who lies, and I I think if anybody has a reputation for being honest, not here, it's power, sir. So he went into great lengths to lose it. He really clear specific terms like both what it was obvious, I was saying. Why I was saying, what what it meant? How was really a positive and a loving thing. Mhmm. And how reckless it is for people to just kind of wisely blow past that because they feel like they can make a few bucks if they're the first one to mischaracterize the story. And once one person does it, that's the other problem with clickbait. And that kind of thing is that you NFLs, in a sense, you know, allow others to advocate their journalists responsibility. Because once you Crichton it, they don't have to research. They're just NFLs, they said it. They probably did the research. They did the due diligence. I'm just signing them. It's a bunch of files. And But so then the first the first story the first story becomes story. And the second, third, fourth, fifth stories are not the story. They they they fade each way. Exactly. And also people just and this is one of the sad things about technology. We don't get so much of it. People mostly see the headlines in this. They don't have a bunch of times. First of all, it's not that long. They're not that detailed. They don't care it that much. They wanna give the title 4828, get it up there. It's new content. It's a lot of pressure to do that because it don't generate the content. Oh, that's where they want you know, it's part of their whole corporate strategy. And so it's and and I'm guilty the same thing. I kinda skimmed the other items, the app on who's blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm just as skeptical as going. So so I did this thing, and they're crazy, you know, and I keep going. And that's why it really isn't coming to a journalist, not to tell anybody their job. But, you know, it's worth the state first amendment journalism, the freedom of press, kind of fundamental aspect of our democracy. And if you don't take it seriously, then I think in cases of celebrities, there's a sense of, like, you know, really have to take that seriously. You know, I mean, they have too much anyway. What did they do? Sound like device president? But, you know, my dad one of the great things my dad taught me was and and Jerry Spak. And my my development teacher and other people have worked with Julian. If you're gonna do your job, it doesn't matter. You do it well. You do it really well. My friend of my brothers may tied, you know. And he would always come over that everywhere we went. He would look at the tile and the crowding stuff, and he was driving pretty. He's the only guy did this. He's just lazy right there. See how it doesn't blend with you. You know what I mean? Because he cared about what he did. He took a tremendous amount of pride in it. And I always remember that because I never looked before. I thought about tile. I thought about person put the talent and what their attitude was. But whatever it is that's done, you you notice this as a adult particularly like Some people care. Some people really meaningful do their job. Right? And some people are just trying to get over. Some people are trying to get ahead, and some people will shoot you for fifty dollars or later. Your daughter and and your kids and all that stuff. You tell them that to Google you? How do you handle that? Tell them I tell them the truth. Yeah. And it requires periodically having to it's the part of this. This is why I'm having this conversation. Otherwise, I would say, oh, But yeah. You know? But it means because That's why I mentioned it. Realize. They just think they, of course, believe what they see when they're talking to or more on BuzzFeed or whatever it is. They that they get their nation from. They imagine that if somebody wrote it, it probably is true. Now they've been cultured to understand that there are lies that imprinted because they've had the experience of growing up and going to the grocery store and looking and seeing if their mom was pregnant. And going, like, are you playing it? No. No. And then it became a running joke in our then it became a running joke in our fans. We're like, we know that it was true. You'd have thirteen brothers and sisters. Right. No. They get that they get that it's dishonest. But nonetheless, in cases like this, really continue with me if I you know, I'm like, yeah. Well, you know, if somebody wants to pile on in a movie or something about I'll just come up with you. Yeah. Last two months, didn't work. Undisappointed. I feel bad. Because I think it's a good opportunity and model for them. This is how you deal with discipline. It's okay. You can get this is not gonna end yours in the end of the world. You look at it, what kind of take from it? How do I move on? You know, lie about it, deny about it. It shows what make you feel, you know, be all. And but if it's something that could potentially, if they believed it, cause them to start to under stand what they know in their home that they see their mom and me, respecting NFLs, consulting one another, caring about one another, treating one another, well, I can imagine it'd be very hurtful to see, oh, my that's not what he did. He said something different because they know about Boeing. They know what people talk about in his past. They're lessons. You know, they see that every day. That's exactly what I would never wanna model for them, which is why -- Yeah. -- but whether they are aware of it or not, they to do that one thing, particularly as you said, like, if you wanna be reckless and responsible and just chase money and you've utterly indifferent to the truth in terms of relative to what it is you report as truthful. Really think about whether or not the edge. That's all of it. So, you know, like, at least go that far. Yeah. So think, is this fair to their kids? Because you know what, I chose this, this line of work. And I didn't think it would be like this. But I knew, you know, Sean Penn and Madonna a guitar. I knew that was a possibility to become true, but I knew if it did it was the price that I would pay. So I had entered into that bargain willingly. Children just get bored into a life. They don't ask me a celebrity skid. They don't ask me to fucking have their photograph taken. They don't ask me to separate that from their peers. Even when it's a good thing, you know, my one of my kids at oh, my teacher just, you know, yeah, you know, the whole thing and from the class, my movie, and just that. I You know, I was like, was he what was it? Was it about there's only, like, the movie, but it's just like, but it didn't matter. It was like, don't make me separate from this. Don't -- Yeah. -- this to me. Change my social. And adults can be really enthused about that. And I can be very sensitive, you know, because I won't despite the fact that probably an unrealistic expectation. It is a realistic expectation. Like, isn't that the most normal? Healthy, best life they can. And it really, really pains me in part because my own father at times was not father. That's what I was not able because of being an alcoholic. So I had times where where I felt embarrassed. Really, you know, my old man comes in baseball league game and you know, when they're talking to me and, you know, tell them you had a pitch and what business drugs, you know, I was playing a third bass. And, you know, that kind of thing when you're twelve years old. I mean, you I'm fifty. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I just think that I'm never gonna do. And so for in effect, somebody to read very detailed, very clear in-depth interview. Then I say, how much I have a bit children's back there, but how my heart I work at it and how painful it is, but it's mischaracterized. And then to go do precisely that thing. Not only I didn't so the doing put me in the position in effect of caught generating feeling of my kids. That I felt on third base going to death. That's not me on the pitch. On the pitch. On the pitch. You know, is is very, very great. I'm switching to movies because we gotta talk about the new one. But you made two good movies in a row. That weren't necessarily successful by normal standards, but I don't even know what the normal standards that are anymore. Like, the way back was an excellent movie. I actually thought I I genuinely I'm not saying this to suck up to you. You know, I wouldn't. I genuinely thought you should have gotten day for No. You're gonna bad things about no. No. I I've had a couple bad ones over there. I actually thought you had chance to get dominate for an Oscar. You didn't. But I think that movie really stands up as, like, a modern sports movie. We've talked about this on this podcast sometimes where there's like the different areas of sports movies, We've talked about this on this podcast sometimes where there's, like, the different errors of sports movies. Right? And this is we're now in this era of real movies that happen to be about sports. That movie has this conventional sports movie set up and you win the big game and it's like cool. And then it just goes off a cliff for the next twenty minutes. And it was the most I think most personal movie you probably made. I think you were great in it. It does fine. Doesn't do great because we have a pandemic. There's no movie Schrager really in one week of release for it. And then So what happened was that was really interesting movie, and it ties in to exact the other movies that you're that you're referring to. The exact same thing happened, which is what made me realize the business is totally changed. And I have to change with it, you know. It would be the customer's help. I love the way back. It was very personal to me. Everybody invested in it and believed in it. And I wanted a chance to to just selfishly as an actor. I was like, this is gonna be this has to be something I haven't done before. And I think you could be really personally rewarding. And We did it. And I could tell already like that the business was changing. As it was coming to release, Like, people don't wanna see and I can see a movie about a guy's kid dies. mean, he descends into, you know, alcoholism and then tries to find somehow through this past book. It just was too difficult and that people just adults just weren't going to those movies already. Then it comes out The week later, they shut the theaters down. Yeah. That's COVID. And I thought, like, you know, of course, sort of self pityingly, like, wow. This is my luck. Like the movie, I really love, and they shot the theaters. But then it's an interesting moment where I'll send it on to me. We're gonna put on streaming in two weeks. So everybody who's captive audience who's sitting at home in lockdown, like, what's new? What's on? Whatever you see. That's the new movie that they just saw an apple and it's on. And I do think that that was the beginning of this whole day and they think like, wait a minute, there's a lot of value to stream movies, right, and people are aware of them. That's actually and it did really well. Like, of all my movies, I probably got more sort of just on my, you know, empirical subjective level, like, more emails and texts about people who liked the movie that, you know, movies that did gigantic box office, that made people who liked those movies. But still, it was that people clearly saw it. And then I thought, this is I'm so much happier that people saw it, you know, and they're stevia. However, big it was. And it's not like the eleven inch black and white that I had. I might ask. You know -- Right. -- it's it's a hundred and eighty bucks for sixty five inch classroom. You know, you can get pretty good televisions and see them in ways where you can appreciate what's going on. And then I just thought, like, this isn't bad at all. I'm really glad people saw I'm really glad people saw it. You know, and and when it came to the last tool, I did think, well, maybe this has enough genre stuff, enough big screen stuff with dueling and fighting. And I always use that movie similarly into the town where you sort of wrap a character story in the candy shell of, like, yeah, I think we're gonna bludgeon one another inducement to death. But and if that's what you wanna go to the movies where you're gonna get that, because to measure the wisdom is, like, you got that action or you'll be able to see it. You're not wrong. You'll need NFLs like, stops in the neutral action. But even that and I understand what movie shit people that's a lot of mysteries. I'm like, well, I obviously knew it was not. But it is it strikes me that, like, when they it's good. I know the movie works right. I had screened the prize. We had tested the prize. We knew that audiences enjoyed it when they saw it. And so that I was kind of baffled. Like, But very quickly, I thought, like, not that, oh, this is so genius and happy. There's no way, Look at that mess here. But It should have been a it should have done better numbers than it did in any other world. It would have. Like, I I've done this enough to know. Like, a movie that works well enough, and how does that should do better than whatever Minnis, few of them did. And it just told me, like, this audience is done. They're never going to finish. At least for you, they wanna pause. They wanna get up and take a leak three times. They wanna finish it tomorrow. They wanna be able stop for dinner, you know, me. I actually do the same thing. Well, like, nine years ago, that movie's gone girl. Right? And it's that adult movie that you go with your, you know, it's a couple's night or whatever it is. And I don't think Gongle would work now either as as a movie theater experience. Fungal, Argo, account names, all of the movie Ringers, for sure. None of them with the actual releases at all. So the only thing you can do is just make good movies and hope hope hope people see them. I don't even know what the option is at this point. No. But the good news, the silver lining is Actually, if you look at the numbers in terms of how many movies people are watching, there's much higher. Now, some you have to control with the pandemic, obviously, gets people home for. But still those numbers have skyrocketed. Like, people are watching, watching, watching, watch. They can't spill the they can't spill the demand they have. Yeah. You get people to see new stuff. So you are watching stuff. You just have to understand that. Like, this business has changed since the beginning of time. Maybe it was bought, though, silent movies. It was longer silent movies. It was talkies. It was caller movies. And they were telling me to destroy the business. You know? And then, you know, it was a teach it up. And it's always changed and it's always required evolution. But what's consistent is that people are interested in storytelling, in particular, kind of storytelling, well, two times. One that sort of you know, and I know you guys are like, hey. You know, I I like your moving to bed, but, like, you know, I I'm, like, doing HVAC all day. Tired. I don't I don't know what hearing you. I don't wanna go -- Yeah. -- I wanna go here and see something like the thing I got to press it. Just wanna see, like, the good guys win and, you know, if somebody blows them up, they gotta find a line. It's, like, I can kind of just let that go you know, I I get that. That's really valid. And then I made movies that we're trying to do that. I'm not that interested in doing that now. As I'm older. What I'm interested is doing the other kind of movies. And the audience for that movies is there. And in fact, the streamers can find them more efficiently because they know what you've watched before. And there is a real commonality to if you like to issue like that. That's why the whole genius feature of music, all that stuff works. Like, not always sometimes, you're like you're like this movie too, you know, and they're trying to suggest you a new movie. But it's effective. And so they email directly that you're home screen of ethics. It's different than that. Even the poster for a movie, like, don't use a different poster for maybe probably you or I would get the same poster. But, like, for somebody who has really different tastes, they'll get a very different poster, maybe with different casts, maybe with a whole different look. So you do these all these shoes, you think like Well, wait a minute. What will be a pro are we promoting? Because there used to be a unity to the idea of what we're saying. And now it's like we're promoting a bunch of different stuff. Depends much. And so they're good at that. They can find that eyes. And want that eyes to see it. And I think those opportunities are still there. And as long as I can continue to do it well, and actually satisfy that audience and have them feel like, I'm glad I watched that. And the last tool NFLs silver lining of this is it came out and It was successful in streaming. And ironically, one of the big metrics is, like, was it the number one pirate it COVID19? you can definitely find out We want that. I don't know if they Bens you a prize for that, but So what do you expect for the tender bark? Because really well reviewed. It's really good. What is that movie now in in December during a pandemic when people go they'll go to the theater? No. No. I NFLs people will see it. I think some people will, but III don't know how many screenshots. I know that just broadly speaking, Amazon is not in the theatrical mood. It was under the business of, like, we got everybody's own page. We sold Ringers. We saw, you know, we have books and, you know, we saw we saw Amazon now. We look at their market cap before the pandemic. That's in the pandemic. It's Stange. Amazon, Apple, and Netflix. They were just Google, like, their market capitalization, looked at the graph in twenty nineteen. It's like, I mean, it's like a garage. You know, companies don't just like, you know, go five x in value, ten x in value. For you, especially ones that already worth two hundred billion dollars. So to get that kind of growth to those kind of companies is a seismic event in the sort of corporate Wall Street world. And I think the way that Amazon has been successful is by recognizing that we have to do books. We can do books and we can books and and then I just started realizing everything. And it was everything. And it was the pandemic. That was just the way we got stuff because you weren't supposed to meet or touch other humans. And and so they I'm I think they're, like, movies that, like, they're Bens business, but I suspect if you look at a pie chart of their revenue, it would be, like, you wouldn't be able to go live. Yeah. Yeah, you will see it. This is like, hey, we got these home trees. We see we have people already. Might as well show movies too and see if we can add to our bottom line in that way. So they're the most sort of they're the most sort of detached but they're the best example of a business that was doing something totally different that then says, let's add this too. And as such, I think most of it what they're interested in is just Doesn't bring us do people use Prime? Do they upgrade new Prime? Does it bring it. I don't even think they're in the new subscribers business because I don't think there's any new subscribers left Netflix justice as, and they used to just mail out I don't even think they're in the new subscriber business because I don't think there's any new subscribers left. Netflix justice. And so and they used to just mail out DVDs. This is a company that would mail you a DVD. And David Fisher did house a lot. And they and all of a sudden, it was like, well, they have their own shows. So maybe should have or so a seeshare subscriber to Netflix on those merits because then they had transitioned to yes, a platform. They were streaming, but they were streaming everybody else's movies. And and then at the same time that everyone else realized why are we giving them money streamer movies to start clawing all their movies back? They want to build up their library because they want to establish this Bens. So they're also not theatrically oriented. Although they do theatrical releases to fix, like like, you know, sometimes they're It's called final leases, you know. I mean, a robot, if it was only an ethics when one asked. Right? So they it needs to be in theaters. And and people like me, You know, and -- Yeah. -- I go see the Chris Pizza in theaters even though that's only theaters because I wanna see Paul's movie. But, like, the value isn't theatrical for them. I think they view it as kind of an an ancillary aspect. So you're gonna have a bifurcated theatrical business, which consists probably of forty forty five movies like least year that are all intellectual property that you already recognize. They're either heavily branded with their sequels or their such high concept that they believe know, kids will see it, which is Basically, you've already You've already won. It's like you've already won, but who who's gonna see the movie at give already one. I think the eyeballs are gonna be there, and it's a good move. Yes. Yeah. I know it's gonna be there. Yeah. Bens of them. I'm totally happy. Like, Amazon's a great platform for that because it would be an incredible help to try to convince people looking up. We actually see it -- Yeah. -- on the first weekend, and the numbers it would need, I don't think it'll be difficult at all for Amazon to figure out who's ever liked this movie and have enough of them watching it so that according to their calculus, it's a profitable movie they have made. And as so, yeah, you NFLs. And by the way, the thing about streaming is, you know, their economics are really different because it's about half as expensive for them to make a movie. Because they don't have the P and A cost, the distribution has where you make the way for seventy five million dollars, then you gotta put another seventy five It's a theatrical releasing it. If you're not sure the movie works, you got seventy five of the line, you know, it's kinda like doubling the six. And you got, like, I will want two sick things here. And now you get twice as much. And if it only does forty, the theaters keep twenty, you know, now you've lost a massive amount of money. And you don't have that level of risk for streaming, which is why they're able to make stuff more broadly. So, yeah, the very short answer, which I'm very bad at, is It's probably good for me. It just kind of, I'm about to make, are getting made more and the streamers do a good job of showing kind of because I'm gonna make I'm getting made more and the streamers do a good job of show. Why aren't you directing what's going on with Why aren't you directing? What's going on with you? I don't wanna be with you because. So when does that come back? What is that, like, five years from now? Well, he no. But my son is mine. Oh, yes. You gotcha. Oh, yeah. And I I turned down a bunch of stuff. It was like, we love it, but you guys shooting Bulgaria. Well, okay. You gotta love it with someone else because I'm just not doing it. And I I got that real comfortable with it. It could be a three sentence k. I'm not leaving right here. It's too important for my children. It's too important for me. Even if it's Boston or some LA's, some Crichton, some Turkey, they're like, Arno, I don't really know how to do it well, but not good enough. You cannot spend all day doing it. I gotta put in the fifteen hours to make sure it's great or at least as good as it can be. And so if I found like, if I had, like, cool of Matt was, like, let's do something, you know, something like I did a movie with Terence Meli that was sort of an impressionistic movie, but it was ten million dollars movie. We actually shut up film. We shut up Oklahoma for five or six weeks. It looked great. Chivo shot it. And if, like, man had actors like, you know, Christmasina or Lily Rae, or play it the ball. I was like, let's do, like, a prerogation. We'll be about, you know, that takes place and kinda what location we can shoot it in LA for five weeks and we get home by dinner and that kind of thing. How would that? How would direct that? I was gonna say, why don't you guys do the sailor move where you all go to Hawaii, and you film some rom com in Hawaii for two months. That's okay. That'd be great. Without the family. That'd be, they'll be kid. So I don't know why. They wanna one of them, like, I have my debate. I have my friend's like, no, I don't want to go through Y, I have my friends. I'm like, no. I don't want to go with you to why. It's a bit sad. But anyway, when that happens with your kids where all of a sudden, they just don't want I know it's probably happened with your daughter. I know it's happened in mine where it's like, I'm just not in the loop anymore. They don't wanna hang out. That's it. It's over what I It's over. Oh, it's like, you know, but I like, you know, we got that shoot lattice and play games. Anybody, you know? No, David. Yeah. The goers go out and listen. I'm on my phone. Yeah. Hey. You want to take water. But by far, you wanna No. Close the door then. Yeah. Okay. Good. Great. Hey. What are you listening to? That song sounds terrific. That really slapped. Who is that? Oh my god. They're embarrassing me. Please leave. Okay. I'll leave. You know, why don't you go get You know? Wanted to come to Starbucks with me to go get photograph. No. Thanks to that. Oh, yeah. Do you wanna come to the premiere. You want to come look at You wanna come look at this? wanna come to the concert? What? No. I'm doing something with me. You talk about you talk about ego blows. There's no bigger ego blow than when your kid suddenly doesn't wanna hang out with you all the time. It's I'm still right. Yeah. I guess, like, really thoroughly keep me humble. I gave my daughter the Crichton about which I got her to read only because she had been such a, like, great consultant on the last two one. So because she's at she's so acutely aware of every little nuance that has she's brilliant and she's really aware of all the sort of social political aspects of not only how might something reasonably interpret something that touches on sensitive issues, but how could somebody characterize something with that didn't intend to be that as that Right. So I actually I never mind all the consultants. I listen. We worked with Rain, and we worked with Gene Davis, and we had a lot of people. But my daughter was incredibly valuable. So And it was a joy for me. I was like I was, like, heavy. I was, like, would you read this again? Didn't and I look at the general's issue. And once I said, that's just okay. I'll be, you know, mark it up and So so she got used to reading my stuff. And I said, hey, would you look at this this tender brush grip? And she ran out and she said, wow. You're finally playing your fantasy character. Somebody who stands around, the lecturer's children, they have to listen to. It's like, yeah. Sort of. I guess that is what I love about. But it's great. And the thing about having your kids be able to do that shit is like, I I've heard I know sometimes people take it personally, it's hard not to, but, like, it actually is such a healthy good thing. It's a sign that your kids don't worry about you. You're they know you're there for them no matter what. You're gonna stop loving them. You're all these. They don't have that frott, fractured, delicate, scary relationship with you. They just know, like, you're just that. You're just a big oat in the backyard, you're gonna be there. If I wanna climb on you, we'll load for that now. But, you know, and I can carve my name in you and do whatever. And stereo leaves and do whatever I can, you're gonna be there. And I think that's the most healthy effective way to help kids understand and internalize the a voice of the parent, which people really need as they grow older to feel like, I have work. I can do hard things. You know, not to do the participation trophy, and you're good at everything everything's okay because they know your lines. You know, mean, my daughter was nine years old. She didn't win a game in her basketball league. At the end of the year, they got these trophies. And she was sort of frowning, and I said, what's wrong? And she was like, dad, we didn't win any games. And I said, yeah, they know. She said, I mean, so why are we getting trophies? This is the winless trophy. It sounds like maybe they give out prizes to be winless. That's rare. That also doesn't happen that often. It's an achievement. You did this. Yeah. You did something notable. But, you know, the point is they know. They know when the things are good, they know when something's bad. That's why I have to dress up. If something comes out of a tablet, I have to stop and go, hey. Guys, I know this probably, buddy. This is bullshit. Here's the story. Here's what happened. Here's the truth. You you can always ask me. You can always ask you, you know the world around you is true. You're not always gonna know about that about the outside world. And to hope that they develop some comfort in that. That's, that's the best I can do, you that's that's the best thing I can do, you know, across the board. Alright. Last thing before we go. Other than Goodwill Hunting too, I think you should start seriously thinking about. So Chuck-in-law for twenty five twenty seven years later. Oh, came out to California and ended up on meth, and he's one of those guys playing speed tests. I thought -- Yeah. -- Santa Monica area. Yeah. Alright. This is this one. That would be a good one. A drama. Alright. This is gonna get angry. Ready? I did this with Tom Hanks and people really liked it. Bens favorite top three Bens Affleck movies. So I'll set it up again. Affleck's top three favorite Ben Affleck movies. What are they right now in thousand twenty one? Do I start into the drive? Doesn't matter? Oh, that's interesting. I think it can be either. Let's say either. Okay. Don, maybe God, the town. Good one. I swear to God, that's my three. Are we mad? Where's Bob Eubanks? I think we're like brothers. Are we connected? That's the three. I think the town has had an unbelievable kind of kind of run since it came out because of cable and streaming. And you know how you know it's true because it's always on. It'll pop on Affleck. All of a sudden, it's there. New on Netflix. It'll be on VisionMax. It'll be on HBO. It just keeps going. It's it's not gonna stop. I remember I came out another another director said about that movie. Like, no one's gonna talk about this movie in ten years. And I felt hurt by that because I thought, hey, what I'm not supposed like, put each other down at some level. And and the irony was, like, I mean, it's got me ten years later. Here we are talking about. I mean, granted it's speech up. Busted. Somebody's done it. Yeah. These fears I had naked them were the most good work. What was the Gong girl experience? I don't know that story. So gone baby gone. Oh my I have gone girls by three. I screwed that up. Gone baby gone. Whoa. That was the one where you realized if I'm making a boss movie, I gotta use locals. I'm really gonna get really involved. Yeah. and more real than galactic, which did align certain elements of Boston, which we felt we had to in order to make it. And I felt like the gum be gone was more, maybe not better, but was more And I felt like the gun may be gone was more maybe not better, but was more on us. I think that's fifth for me. Gong girl three. Come on your list. Gong girl three. I think the way back is four for me. Way back is up there for me sure. Hey, you know what? I love the last two. I really love the last. Yeah. That happens to that enough times yet. I need, like, three, four more viewings to decide that was one that we we got under just a little bit. I think if we had gotten all of it, we could have driven the ball, four fifty feet. And I feel like we got to the track. You know what I mean? In some ways. Maybe it's quick. It depends on yes. In some parts that's out. Yeah. Exactly. In that way, it's off the most for sure. You know what I mean? For sure. I don't know where we're depends on where we're playing, which by that, I mean, who's watching. But I know we gotta hold them. I do also know we just got a hair under it. For reasons I'm not gonna go into, But if that those are the heartbreakers. It's not like, okay. Guy fools me. I was looking fast, but, you know, throw me a beautiful curveball. Right. Strike three. And if you just see guys do it though. The bat that no, they're all, you the bat, they know they're at ball, you know, okay, baby. But when you have that shape, you get the pitch there, you look fastball inside part of the play. Gear up, turn on it, and it's like, I knew it. I got a you know, it's a third of an inch. You know, lower on the ball. That's Jim JimRison in nineteen seventy eight Yankee playoffs game in the late innings. So just a little bomb, and it seemed like it was out. But of course, it wasn't because the yankees we could never have good things to get. And keys for get the yankees for years. So that's about about sports is actually the most relevant to the PED issue because if you're gonna get a ten or 15 percent boost, that's gonna make the difference in those moments, which is quite significant. You know, every time we hit the ball, there's a lot of live balls. That come ten feet short of the wing or hit on the wing track. And if you got a ten percent bump, it's gone. Now thinking of the difference machine that Yeah. So does this mean you and Damon are gonna do more stuff before we go? Like, that you wrote you wrote last film and you gotta go in and day. Like because we were like, why why we never doing this the whole time? We had the wrong idea. This is so stupid. We were after chasing this thing and get successful do our thing, whatever. And there's nothing And there's nothing there. The mammy moves you. The mammy. Doesn't matter what people say about it or if you get trophies or don't in the box. None of that shit makes you happy. The only thing that makes you happy is spending time people love, principally your kids. Loving them, loving your family, being the person. And when you go to work, if you work with people you like, it makes such a bigger difference in your life than whether or not you kinda, what, go around with your crew jacket on and impress people, because, like, hey. I did this one a week. I thought that. You know what I mean? It doesn't do anything for you. Except to the ugly narcissist part of people that wants everyone to love and admire them, which is just a miserable shitty character attribute to make sure it happened? You should write a thirty year college reunion movie with Matt. Just hold up. Just write it out. Eight nine characters. You can film it in five weeks. Cheap costs. Everybody takes everybody takes smaller sours because they just wanna be a part of it, spanning out. I'm gonna say right now you can get nothing. You want a story by You want story by Greta? Gonna negotiate right now. I you know, I I started my credits. Great. Yeah. I want to start a two hundred dollar Dunkin' Donuts gift card. good. Done. Done. Sorry. I did. I know. Just do it. Just call up with them and write hold up with them and write it. Alright. Fantastic. Good luck with the tender bar. It was good to see you. So so it's always the best whether or not to whatever they say about our interview. The interview is so. There's always a pleasure. I think this I hopefully, this one won't get aggregated in a terrible way. I think we did it. I think we navigated it correctly, but we'll see. I mean, who knows? Maybe I'm sure somebody got don't know. It's not gonna drugs. I tell you, you know, somebody you could find something, but you know what? We have the interview recorded for posterity if you're really interested. Welcome to watch it. I had a good time. Alright. Good to see you. Thank you, Rob. Thanks to Ben Affleck and Peter Thanks to copywriting our producer for this episode. And thanks to everybody who spread the word for season one of music box. Don't forget, juice whirling to the abyss, the last film of our six film series, HBO eight PM. Thursday night and available on HBO Max as well have great weekend. Copats see you Sunday.