0:00

Hey, listeners, Just a quick note about

0:02

this episode. Some of the audio is

0:05

slightly distorted here and there. You'll

0:07

hear some crackling. It's not terribly

0:10

excessive, but it is there enough

0:12

that you notice, so we just want

0:14

to apologize for that. Hopefully

0:16

it's not too disruptive to your

0:19

listening experience, and

0:21

we hope you enjoy the episode.

0:25

On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked

0:27

if movies have women in um, are

0:29

all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

0:32

or do they have individualism? The

0:34

patriarchy zef invest

0:36

start changing it with the Beck del Cast,

0:40

Jamie Caitlin, it's

0:43

getting dark. Oh no, we have

0:45

to get you out of here. We have to get you out of this

0:47

podcast because if you stay,

0:50

get me out of your you're gonna turn into

0:52

a pig and maybe also a spirit.

0:55

So ship is it a metaphor for something?

0:58

Maybe? Oh no, too late,

1:00

now you have to get a job. Is

1:03

it's probably capitalism?

1:05

It's always capitalism, the environment

1:08

or coming of age? Oh no, I'm

1:10

a pig, like like um

1:13

me eating uh smart ones?

1:16

As we record, I'm like, oh no, slow

1:18

down, you're smart ones slower.

1:24

I think that was an incredible. That was a very

1:27

I thought you were going to make me hold my breath is what

1:29

I thought was going to happen. Oh,

1:31

but also that would have be impossible to pass

1:33

the bucktele test because I would be unable to speak.

1:36

That's true. So my

1:39

version was amazing. Ten out

1:41

of ten. No notes, no, no, thank

1:44

you. Welcome to the bucktele Cast.

1:46

By the way, indeed, my name

1:48

is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus,

1:50

and this is our podcast where we

1:53

take a look at your favorite movies in the whole wide

1:55

world using an intersectional feminist

1:57

lens. And today kick

2:00

off, I guess a unit

2:02

that kind of makes it sound like this podcast to school.

2:05

I don't love that, but

2:07

a a unit of films

2:10

that has been requested for years

2:12

and years and years, and the time

2:14

is now they're all finally, at

2:16

least in the US, they are all streaming

2:19

in a pretty accessible way, which is what we were

2:21

waiting for for a long time, and then we just kind

2:23

of waited another year for fun. Uh.

2:26

But you needed

2:28

to cover Shrek to priorities.

2:32

Look, I mean, with with all due respect,

2:35

there were some animated stories that

2:37

needed to be looked at and and

2:40

by that I mean in Shrek two and only Shrek two.

2:43

Um. But yes, we

2:45

were starting our Miyazaki

2:48

month and we're starting with his

2:50

Oscar winning film It's

2:52

True, which I didn't really Well, we'll get into there's

2:55

so much it's spirited away day. It is

2:57

on the Besel Cast. Yes it is. Oh

2:59

wait, we didn't say what the Bechdel Test was.

3:02

I guess we should say that. We usually say that

3:04

what is it? It's a media metric created

3:06

by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes

3:08

called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are

3:10

many versions of it. Ours is

3:13

this Two people of

3:15

a marginalized gender with names

3:18

have to speak to each other, and their

3:20

conversation has to be about something other

3:22

than a man, and ideally it's

3:25

a narratively meaningful conversation.

3:27

Yes, which in Miyazaki

3:30

canon is not usually

3:33

not a problem. Too hard at all. So

3:36

very excited for today's

3:38

episode. I can't wait

3:41

to Okay,

3:43

let's bring in our guests and then I have a really pressing

3:45

question. An amazing guest today,

3:48

We absolutely do. She's a writer, translator,

3:51

host and producer of Sparkle Side

3:53

Chats podcast. It's Ayumi

3:56

Shinozaki, Hello, welcome.

4:00

I was holding my breath waiting to be introduced.

4:04

Wow, well you could finally breathe.

4:07

Yes, it's wild because we couldn't see

4:09

you from the beginning of the recording, and then

4:11

we heard it a sharp exhale, and then you

4:13

appeared. It's

4:15

very excited to be here. Thank you

4:18

for being here. We're so excited to kick

4:21

things off with a spirited away episode

4:23

with you. This is definitely

4:26

an extremely American statement.

4:28

However, immediately

4:31

the second Lynn began speaking. I

4:33

don't know if I remembered this from the first time I had

4:35

seen this movie, but the moment Lynn

4:37

began speaking, I was like, Oh, Megara

4:40

Hercules, Disney's Hercules.

4:43

It's all I mean I was. I was a big

4:45

Hercules head. I don't know that that would fare

4:48

very well on this show at all, but I really

4:50

loved it when I was tiny

4:52

and um her voice

4:55

unmistakable, Yes, definitely, yes,

4:57

I do think that. Um. One thing that's

4:59

really interest thing about this movie in

5:01

terms of, you know, why it's so well

5:04

done, or like why it's so popular in

5:06

the s S. Because it was the first one that was

5:08

localized by Disney in particular

5:11

because before that there were different other studios

5:13

doing it, like sometimes it wasn't very successful.

5:16

Um toto did I think the original total

5:19

did? Okay? I think I remember watching

5:21

that one in English, but this was the first Disney

5:23

one. I think that you can definitely hear

5:26

it in the localization makes

5:29

sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

5:31

was the whole adaptation process

5:33

I watched. I meane it was a heavily, heavily

5:35

disneyfied look at the

5:38

adaptation process. But it was interesting.

5:40

I've never sort of seen that process

5:42

done before so closely

5:44

with the with the filmmaker too. So

5:48

let's let's get into it, and

5:51

uh, what's your history and relationship

5:54

with Spirited Away?

5:56

Um? Yeah, So I guess my history

5:58

with this movie is really connected

6:01

to my history with Ghibili in general,

6:03

which, um, you know, for anyone who

6:05

has no idea who I am. Um, I

6:07

am Japanese and white. Um.

6:10

And my my father, who is a

6:12

white American, he actually was like really

6:14

really into movies, and so he

6:16

got into Ghibli movies in the eighties,

6:19

like through his best friend who was a Japanese American

6:21

and they they

6:24

used to basically do fan

6:26

dubbing of the movies for their friends

6:29

because it was just so inaccessible. Yeah,

6:32

so, um, hold on, I actually did

6:34

I I am both

6:36

my parents to get at their their history

6:39

of Gibilie before

6:41

they got married. But um, yeah, so what he

6:43

told me was, like, you know, they really

6:45

went line by line and translated. They did

6:48

Nashka, they did um The Castle

6:50

of Kaiostro, which is a loop on the

6:52

third movie but was also directed

6:54

by Miyazaki, then Lapida,

6:57

and then um also Across, which is

6:59

not Ghibli but is a very big,

7:01

like sci fi Japanese

7:03

movie. But um, definitely,

7:05

Like I was always closer to my father in

7:08

the first place, but like, um,

7:10

you know, when it comes to movies, and

7:13

especially Jibli movies, I was always like watching

7:15

them with this idea of like, you know, these are some

7:17

of the best, you know movies out there,

7:20

and like they were kind of the way to kind

7:23

of understand that like animation was

7:25

a genre and you know, like just

7:27

because something is animated doesn't mean it's like less

7:30

of a movie than a live action one. Um.

7:33

But yes, since you know, in the you know, lady

7:35

eighties and early nineties, a lot of more kid

7:37

friendly Jubilee movies had come out,

7:40

So those were the ones I definitely watched more,

7:42

you know, Total and Kiki slivery service.

7:44

But it wasn't until like thinking

7:47

about my relationship to this movie that I realized

7:49

how perfect this movie was for me. Because

7:52

this movie came out in um well,

7:54

originally came out in two thousan one in Japan, but I believe

7:56

it came out in two two in the

7:59

US in its localized version,

8:01

and that's where I grew up. And in

8:04

two thousand one, I, um

8:06

I was ten years old, so at the same age as

8:08

Hito was, and then um

8:10

I had moved to uh

8:13

well, I moved within New York City, but I had

8:15

a pretty major move, and

8:18

um yeah, it was just like this,

8:20

uh this really interesting movie for me.

8:22

And then the other thing is that this movie is very

8:25

very based in like traditional Japanese

8:27

folklore, which I never really had

8:29

a relationship grow with growing up because

8:31

my mother is in like this neo Buddhist

8:34

group. For me, I call

8:36

it a cult. They don't call it a cult, but whatever, that's

8:38

neither he nor there. But the point

8:40

is there very much they reject those like old

8:43

ways and so on. So I really

8:45

didn't have a relationship with those. So this was like

8:47

me learning a lot about, you

8:49

know, my own background in a way. So I

8:52

was so obsessed with it. Um I was obsessed

8:54

with how it looked. I was obsessed with the idea of

8:56

like going to another world and

8:58

getting a dragon boyfriend and all that

9:01

so relatable.

9:05

Very Jamie,

9:09

what about your history? Um?

9:12

I had seen this movie once

9:14

before. I didn't grow up. I wish

9:16

I had grown up in a household

9:19

that was more. Um

9:21

I guess active about getting me

9:23

Yazaki movies because I only saw

9:26

I think two growing up. I saw

9:28

Kiki Delivery Service and spirited away

9:31

both at my friend's house. Shout

9:33

out, Samantha, Honeywell, um

9:37

at least my recollection of it. Growing up,

9:39

it was like there would be one kid that

9:41

would have the Miyazaki movies. But it

9:43

wasn't like they should have been in every household

9:46

the way that there were five, you know whatever.

9:48

My my parents were just like very

9:50

very much and this isn't this is the most parents.

9:53

You know, it's a hard life. But they

9:55

would just be like, Okay, we're gonna go see the Disney

9:58

one. We're gonna see Dana

10:00

Carvey, Master of Disguise because for some reason

10:02

I really wanted to see that. Other than

10:04

that we would just go see the Disney movie. And

10:07

but I wish that I had seen

10:09

everything that was available younger. But I

10:11

remember being

10:14

so fixated on Kiki,

10:17

like Kiki's Delivery Service was it.

10:19

I loved it so much. I really liked

10:21

Spirited Away. And I also vaguely

10:23

remember thinking like, I don't

10:25

know what the child's like equivalent of this,

10:28

but I'm like this might be a little over my head

10:31

when I was and I was a

10:33

kid, because it's so beautiful and it's this amazing

10:35

adventure. And I remember being

10:38

scared of no Face and then

10:40

also being amazed when she was nice to

10:42

no Face because that didn't happen in movies

10:45

the villain falls off a cliff at the end of a movie,

10:47

but that like this, this

10:49

movie is like so I don't know, I mean

10:51

I had, I hadn't ever watched

10:54

it um as an adult,

10:56

and so preparing for this episode was so

10:59

wild. There's just there's so

11:01

much, it's such it

11:03

I it's no longer over my head,

11:06

although there's there's so much

11:08

to talk about because it's because it's about

11:10

capitalism and we ever

11:13

heard of as adult have heard

11:15

of her. Um. But

11:17

I I really enjoyed prepping for this

11:20

episode and just learning more about

11:22

Miyazaki in general. I didn't know much about

11:25

Um. I only knew kind of the broad strokes of

11:27

his background, and so it was really cool learning

11:29

about his background and his politics

11:32

and and I'm very excited to talk about

11:34

this, Caitlin, what's your history was

11:36

Spirited Away? I did not have one.

11:39

I had not seen it until prepping for this episode.

11:42

I've watched it three times now

11:45

because there's a lot to digest.

11:48

It's a heady kids film. It

11:51

really is if you're operating

11:53

at a Shrek level, which

11:57

I was and still am. Yeah, we kind

11:59

of come in at the Shreky end point, and sometimes

12:01

you gotta kind of level up, right.

12:05

So I grew up with Totro.

12:08

That was my absolute ship. But

12:10

that was the only Miyazaki movie

12:12

I saw until I

12:15

think a couple of years ago when I saw kikiS,

12:18

And then it was only within

12:20

the past week that I watched Spirited

12:23

Away. And now I really want to like make

12:25

it a point to get through the entire uba

12:29

of Miyazaki. But Um, I'm

12:32

still working my way through it. I

12:34

was not expecting Spirited Away to be so

12:37

wild because scary,

12:40

it's scary. There's a lot

12:42

of like frightening imagery.

12:44

There's a lot of just like wild

12:47

stuff that happens. I mean, it's a children's

12:51

movie set in like a horny bath

12:53

house for spirits.

12:55

Like it's just wild.

12:57

So I was kind of expecting something more along the line

13:00

of I mean, obviously, like there are

13:02

elements of you know, fantasy, and in

13:05

both Toto and kikiS delivery service,

13:07

so I was expecting it to be like that but

13:09

still kind of tame like those movies are, and then

13:11

Spirited Away is just like, oh um,

13:15

so it was. It was a wild ride

13:18

for me. But yeah,

13:20

I'm I'm excited to discuss

13:22

and this is one of those

13:24

episodes where like my notes

13:27

make no sense and I it's

13:30

mostly just like non

13:32

binary icons. The Footballs

13:36

is this movie about capitalism

13:38

and environmentalism question

13:40

mark Like it's just like,

13:45

well, yeah, gold coins and rivers

13:49

um. But it's so I mean, it's

13:51

like, that's so incredible for

13:53

for I mean, for any movie to like

13:56

address either of those topics well

13:59

or thoughtfully, much less

14:01

a movie that is like very accessible

14:03

and like understanding of kids too. It's

14:05

just this movie blew

14:08

my mind. I really really love it. Yes,

14:11

So with that in

14:13

mind, should I do the recap?

14:17

Yes? Yes, Okay.

14:20

I do feel like I left out some

14:22

details of the story in the interest

14:24

of brevity, because this movie

14:27

it was difficult to concisely recap, because

14:29

again, there are so many things that

14:31

happened. There's a lot of details. But I

14:34

did my best. Okay. So

14:36

we meet to Hero, a ten

14:39

year old girl who is in the car

14:41

with her mom and dad and

14:43

they are all headed to the

14:45

new house they're moving into. On

14:48

the way, they come upon this

14:51

odd building with a

14:53

long, dark tunnel and

14:55

they decide to walk through it, and on the other

14:57

side they find this abandoned

14:59

the park, and despite

15:02

to Hero's protests, they all

15:04

walk through the tunnel go into the park, and

15:07

her parents find this food vendor

15:10

and start chowing down on a

15:12

ton of food right away they I

15:14

thought it was like I had to there's I

15:17

don't know. I mean, obviously was not picking up

15:19

on this as a child, but like right away the

15:21

script is referencing like contemporary

15:24

Japanese history that I had to keep

15:26

pausing and being like wait, what where

15:29

I think it's to hero's father when

15:31

they first get to the um abandoned

15:34

theme park. He like mentions

15:36

stock crash like an economic crash,

15:39

and like contextualizes why the

15:41

park was abandoned. And it's done so

15:43

quickly and so easily, Like I

15:45

just it's so well done.

15:47

It's so cool. Yeah,

15:50

even like the very very beginning, like the opening

15:52

shot of the movie, like thinking about

15:54

it, I mean they have her read over what

15:56

the card is, but like you open with

15:59

the shot of the bouquet of flowers

16:01

and this card from Tokito's friends,

16:03

you know, saying like I'll miss you and all of that,

16:05

and it's just like the way that it just doesn't

16:08

hesitate to just get you right into the story.

16:11

So it just it's really great.

16:14

There's so much that happens, and it's very

16:16

it doesn't stop to have to like explain

16:19

everything in you know, amazing detail

16:21

or whatever. And

16:23

as and as a group that just

16:25

did the Door of the Explorer movie. Not

16:27

all movies are like that. A lot of movies

16:30

it's part of the form to stop and tell you

16:32

what you're watching, right,

16:36

Okay, So her parents are eating

16:38

all of this food, and to Hero

16:40

wanders off and she sees this bath

16:43

house and she's like, wow,

16:45

I wonder if I'm going to end up in there for the next

16:47

several weeks question Mark

16:50

Unclaire. Then she

16:52

bumps into another kid

16:55

who says, you shouldn't be here.

16:58

You need to leave before it gets dark, and

17:00

she's like, what was that all about? But she runs

17:02

back to her parents, and

17:05

while she's doing that, the park seems to becoming

17:08

alive and is occupied

17:10

by spirits. So

17:12

then she finds her parents, who have turned

17:14

into pigs. So scary,

17:17

Yeah, how like I

17:20

that's one moment that and no face. I remember

17:22

the two moments that I was like, like,

17:24

the idea of leaving your parents

17:26

you come back in their pigs? Yep,

17:29

still scary. So she starts freaking out and

17:32

she tries to leave, but the way

17:34

they came in is now under water. Then

17:37

she watches a bunch of spirits

17:39

disembark a fairy and head

17:42

into the bath house. And then that

17:44

kid, Haku, finds her again

17:47

and he wants to help to Hero find her parents

17:49

and leave. So Haku

17:51

tries to sneak to Hero into the bath house,

17:54

but she is discovered by

17:56

all of the creatures and

17:59

and spirits as being a

18:01

human because she has to just

18:05

it's so good the whole Like

18:07

I really like whenever

18:10

a writer finds something that, like,

18:12

you just know, kids were super receptive

18:15

to seeing it in theaters, like being asked to hold

18:17

your breath and like that whole thing,

18:19

Like it just I don't know. I was doing

18:21

it as I was watching it, and I'm old, but

18:24

like as a kid, you're like, oh, that's such a

18:26

smart thing to do as a writer, because there's

18:29

no kid watching that movie who's not going to try

18:31

to do the same thing and also probably

18:33

not make it.

18:34

It's so good. So

18:37

she's discovered as being a human. So

18:39

they have to run away, and Hawku tells

18:42

her that if she wants to help her parents,

18:44

she has to go to the boiler room

18:46

and ask Kamagi for a job,

18:49

and if she doesn't get a job, you

18:51

Boba, the witch who

18:54

runs the bath house, will

18:56

turn to hero into an animal. So

18:58

we're like, Okay, the steaks are

19:01

high and it's like boiler roum,

19:03

what is this Titanic? Okay,

19:07

that was the Titanic reference I was able to find.

19:10

Yeah, this movie does have a small connection

19:12

to Titanic. I suppose technically speaking,

19:15

yes, I wonder if we have the same fact,

19:18

would you like to share yours? Yeah,

19:20

it's um. So this movie was

19:22

the top grossing movie in Japan

19:25

until uh yeah,

19:27

in late was usurped by

19:29

the neat Demon Slayer movie, which

19:31

is whatever, but not

19:34

for me. But it's fine. Um

19:36

but yeah, so it went for not

19:38

almost yeah, nineteen years it was the top

19:40

movie in Japan, and before that that was

19:42

Titanic. Yeah, I have the same

19:45

fact. Yes, yes, Titanic

19:47

had a brief rain, but it had to end.

19:52

Okay. So Camagi, the

19:54

boiler room man turns

19:56

out to be a guy with

19:58

six arms and

20:01

all these little balls of soot

20:03

work for him, and Camachi

20:06

does not want to help to Hero at first, but

20:08

then he warms up to her and tells her

20:10

that she'll have to make a deal with you Baba

20:13

if she wants to work at the bath house.

20:15

So then this woman named Lynn takes

20:17

to Hero to see you Baba, and

20:20

along the way we get a lot of

20:22

visuals of the bath house. We see some spirits

20:26

enjoying themselves, et cetera.

20:28

Lynn appears to be kind of like the head of

20:31

the cleaning women,

20:36

and she's she's

20:39

like the head of cleaning.

20:41

Yeah, yeah, yes. So

20:44

then Hiro finally meets you Baba,

20:47

who has a baby,

20:49

a large baby, but does

20:52

any baby A big old

20:54

baby, A huge baby in

20:56

the English dub voiced by Tommy Pickles

20:59

expert bay b Who

21:01

is that Tara Strong? Tara

21:03

Strong? Yeah, okay, she's like

21:06

an iconic. I mean she's been she's

21:08

she's Bubbles from Powerpuff Girls. I can

21:11

go on about. She's like an animation

21:14

legends. Great. I think she's like probably

21:17

I would say maybe the top

21:19

most like famous female voice

21:21

actress in the US if

21:23

I had to pick someone, got it. I

21:26

don't know my voice actors. I guess okay,

21:28

like yeah, it's like, yeah,

21:31

I was just I was delighted to

21:34

find out that she was big baby.

21:36

She's big baby. You Babba

21:38

also has a few little

21:41

minions, including a trio

21:44

of green heads that

21:46

bounce around. She also has

21:49

a crow that looks like her, or

21:51

like a bird of some kind that looks a

21:53

lot like her. So

21:56

you Babba makes to Hero sign an

21:58

employment contract, and

22:00

in so doing takes away to Hero's

22:03

name and says that her name

22:05

is now sen for

22:07

the sake of this recap, though, I'm going to keep

22:09

calling her to Hero. It's

22:11

what she'd want, It's exactly so.

22:14

Then Haku returns to

22:17

set to Hero up with a job, but

22:20

he's acting cold and distant now for

22:22

some reason, she

22:24

gets assigned to be Lynn's

22:27

assistant, and Hero

22:30

continues to have a difficult

22:32

time adjusting and processing

22:34

all this wild stuff that's going on due

22:37

to being thrust into child labor. Because

22:42

because you're trying to save your parents who are

22:44

now pigs, you

22:46

know, they're like, the only way to save your parents is

22:48

child labor. I was like, jeezy, but

22:52

this is all going somewhere, so don't worry.

22:55

So then Haku, who is

22:58

nice and warm again, takes

23:01

chikiro to see her parents at the

23:03

pig Pen, and Haku

23:05

tells her that he can't remember his real

23:08

name, and you Baba

23:10

controls I think, like all of

23:12

the staff of the bathhouse by stealing

23:15

their names. Then

23:17

she sees Ku flying

23:20

through the air because he can

23:22

turn into a dragon. He's

23:24

so crushable that Haku,

23:27

yes, like and

23:30

I will get plat but like, I appreciate how

23:33

Yazaki generally doesn't like push

23:36

romantic narratives, particularly on children, which

23:38

a stunning number of children's movies

23:41

cannot say for some reason. But

23:44

if if your tend watching that movie,

23:46

you can see what you want to see. You can see

23:49

a dragon boyfriend in the distance. You can see a dragon

23:51

friend in the distance. You know, sure,

23:53

I have the beholder. Yeah, personally,

23:56

I saw a dragon boyfriend. I

24:00

saw a dragon friend.

24:03

And it could just be because I'm watching

24:05

this for the first time as a thirty five year old

24:08

and not thinking about child romances. But

24:10

I think that that's actually really healthy. If

24:13

you yeah, I would be concerned if

24:15

I would maybe be worried if he saw a dragon

24:17

boyfriend. Okay.

24:20

Also, Chahiro occasionally passes

24:23

this spirit who we will come

24:25

to know as No Face. Um,

24:28

but we don't fully meet No Face yet. So

24:31

Chahiro starts working in the bath house

24:34

and after a while she lets

24:36

No Face in, who has

24:38

just again kind of been lurking

24:41

around outside. Chahiro

24:43

and Lynn have to clean this really

24:46

big tub, and No Face helps

24:48

her get this token she needs

24:50

for the tub. He seems

24:53

to like, really take a liking

24:55

to Jahiro. I wrote

24:57

down embarrassingly, I wrote down,

25:00

No Face is like meat Loaf

25:02

and Fight Club. He's just waiting

25:04

outside, and he's like,

25:06

some days someone's gonna my day

25:09

is gonna come and they're gonna let

25:11

me in. I the

25:15

similarities end, but I was like, oh, he's

25:17

like, I don't know why. Now, anytime someone's

25:19

waiting outside, I'm like, oh, like meat Loaf

25:22

and fight Club. Um,

25:24

but that's how associate

25:28

waiting outside for a long

25:30

period of time. Well. Also famously,

25:33

meat Loaf and Fight Club communicates by

25:35

going oh yeah,

25:38

much like no Face. So actually, the similarities

25:41

don't end there. So

25:44

meanwhile, a stink spirit

25:47

shows up at the bath house and

25:49

needs a bath in the big tub

25:51

that Jihiro and Lynne just cleaned, and

25:54

everyone is grossed out by the stink spirit, which

25:56

turns out to not even be a stink spirit.

25:58

It's a river spirit that just had a bunch

26:01

of trash lodged in it, which

26:03

to Hero figures out and helps

26:06

get all of the trash out. After

26:08

that, the reverse spirit leaves behind

26:10

a small round

26:13

ball I'm not quite sure exactly

26:16

what it is, it's just a little gift plot

26:18

pellet right, and

26:20

also leaves behind a bunch of gold,

26:23

which very much pleases you Baba,

26:26

and you Baba compliments to Hero for doing

26:28

a good job and making her a

26:30

bunch of money. Now, speaking

26:32

of gold, we learn that

26:35

No Face, who is still

26:37

just sort of lurking around, seems

26:40

to be able to just conjure gold in

26:43

his hands, which he

26:45

uses. And Fight Club could not do that.

26:50

I think his story would have ended very differently.

26:53

That would be a very different movie. Yeah,

26:56

we love a conjugal Okay.

27:01

So No Face uses his

27:03

gold making abilities to lure

27:06

in a frog and then he eats the

27:08

frog. Then we cut

27:10

to the next day and No Face

27:12

is just like going wild.

27:15

He's eating a ton of food, he's

27:18

giving away a bunch of gold. Things are

27:20

going off the rails. Meanwhile,

27:23

a bunch of what appears to be paper

27:25

birds are chasing Haku

27:27

in dragon form and he

27:30

gets badly injured and is losing

27:32

a lot of blood. So Hiro

27:35

is kind of rushing around trying to help him,

27:37

trying to save him. Meanwhile, No

27:39

Face is eating people

27:41

like he's just things when a little

27:44

too far in Capitalism

27:47

Cafeteria. Yeah,

27:52

so Tahiro is still kind of rushing

27:54

around trying to clean up

27:56

some messes. She bumps into

27:59

you Boba's baby baby. She also bumps

28:01

into you Baba's twin sister, Zeneba,

28:04

who turns the baby

28:06

into a mouse and turns

28:09

the bird into a much smaller

28:12

bird. And Zeneba

28:15

is there because she wants the golden seal

28:17

that Haku had stolen from her, which

28:20

Hawko later vomits

28:23

up, so Chihiro decides

28:25

to return it to Zeneba so

28:27

that Haku will be free of its curse

28:30

and he will get better. Hihiro

28:32

is an angel. She's

28:35

doing a lot of emotional labor.

28:38

She's really yeah,

28:40

she's really doing it all. Yeah, I

28:42

love her. I mean there's always the like, you

28:44

know, women are conditioned to apologize

28:47

too much, and she's taken like that's

28:50

being taken a step further here because

28:52

she's apologizing for behalf

28:55

of a dragon boyfriend. Right,

28:59

Yes, yes, that's a very Japanese

29:01

thing though, like it's I think

29:03

like in general it's not it's not necessarily

29:06

as gender. I mean, it definitely is

29:08

in this particular case. But yeah,

29:10

like you know, in Japan, it's like if someone

29:13

bumps into you, you apologize

29:15

for being in the way. It's the kind of thing. So yeah,

29:18

I do think that I don't

29:20

think it's as like I didn't read it as that

29:22

way as much. Maybe that's good

29:24

to know. Yeah, yeah for

29:27

for me, what saw I mean, I I

29:29

appreciate that context too, because I just

29:31

didn't know I've I was like,

29:33

well, it's she's U. It

29:35

felt more like a friendship sacrifice,

29:39

right, and like going to apologize to I

29:41

don't I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I

29:43

don't know why when a woman apologizes to another

29:45

woman. I'm like, well, it could be worse. Sure,

29:50

Okay, So she's about to set

29:52

off to go to Zenibus

29:54

to apologize, but first Chihiro has

29:57

to play Kate No Face, who

29:59

is now way bigger, way more

30:01

monstrous. He's eaten so

30:04

much food, he's eaten several other

30:06

spirits. Tahiro then

30:09

feeds him the gift from the river spirit,

30:11

which makes No Face barf

30:13

up everything he's eaten, including

30:16

the people and that frog he barts.

30:18

He barfs up the capitalism metaphor that

30:22

he was eating, and

30:25

then Shahiro learns No Face out

30:27

of the bath house, and he

30:29

returns to his former state and

30:32

accompanies Tahiro, the Mouse

30:35

and the Little Blackbird on their

30:37

journey to Zaniba's place, they

30:40

get on a train. We get

30:42

that I think one of the most iconic

30:44

shots of the movie where they're sitting next

30:46

to each other. Meanwhile,

30:48

back at the bath house, Hakku wakes up

30:50

feeling all better, and Camaji tells

30:53

him that love broke the spell. So

30:56

again we're like, is this like dragon

30:58

boyfriend slash girlfriend love? Is this

31:00

platonic love? It's open

31:03

to interpretation, but

31:05

love broke the spell. So Hako

31:07

goes to you Baba and points

31:10

out that her baby is gone, and

31:13

she's like, oh, yeah, I guess you're right,

31:15

and he's like, well, i'll go and retrieve

31:17

your baby if you tear

31:20

up Jahiro's contract and

31:23

return her and her parents to the

31:25

human world. Meanwhile,

31:27

Chihiro arrives at Zeneba's, who

31:29

tells Shahiro that she'll

31:32

have to help her parents and Hako

31:35

on her own, but remembering

31:37

her past might help with this,

31:40

especially since Shahiro thinks she's

31:42

met Haku before. Then

31:44

Zaniba gives her a little gift. It's a it's a

31:46

hair tie, sparkly hair tie that

31:49

I forgot about that detail, and

31:52

it's a nice touch. It's so sweet.

31:55

Then Haku shows up as a dragon,

31:57

and he flies Chahiro back to the

31:59

bath house, and on the way she

32:02

remembers meeting Haku before because

32:04

he saved her when she was drowning

32:07

as a younger kid. Because Haku

32:10

is actually the Khaku River,

32:13

which no longer exists because it's

32:15

been filled in by apartments. So

32:17

you find out your dragon boyfriend is also

32:20

your river boyfriend, and you're just like

32:24

you're ten years old. And

32:26

then it also it also

32:28

does what is what is this

32:31

trope? I'm trying to think of another like, Okay,

32:34

Tuck over Lasting, Twilight,

32:36

Spirited Away, an eternal being

32:39

is like my love interest is a

32:42

teenager or younger, and

32:45

it's just something it's not It's not

32:47

egregious in this movie because it isn't explicit.

32:49

And again it's like you can

32:52

very much opt in or opt out depending

32:55

on I guess how old you were when you first

32:57

saw the movie question mark. But

33:01

but I just I mean, that is always an interesting

33:03

trope to see crop up, because I feel like it's

33:05

rarely I mean, these are usually

33:08

hetero matchups to

33:10

begin with, but but it's rarely the

33:13

the girl in the equation that gets to be

33:15

an eternal being. It's usually an

33:17

old man who's seventeen,

33:21

but he's actually five hondo and

33:25

it's like the Peter Pan thing. Yeah. Yeah,

33:30

Well, so she's got a river

33:32

slash dragon boyfriend and

33:34

awesome chaherin Hucku returned to

33:36

the bath house where you Baba has

33:39

one final test for chi Hero, which

33:42

she passes, so to

33:44

Hero is free. She gets her name back.

33:46

She reunites with her parents and

33:49

they walk back to their car,

33:52

and it seems like this all could have been

33:55

a dream, but there

33:58

are little hints that

34:00

the whole thing really happened, including

34:02

we see her sparkly headband. There's

34:05

like dust and debris

34:07

on the car, because if it's been there

34:09

for a long time, the implication

34:11

being at all actually happened.

34:14

The hairband proves it happened. That's her

34:16

how I Beat Shack moment. We've talked

34:18

about this moment on the show before.

34:20

I forget. Yeah, yeah,

34:22

what episode was that? That's very funny.

34:25

I don't know, but I know that it's

34:27

the convention where was it a dream

34:29

or not? It used to be a Wizard of Oz, but

34:32

but then it later became the Aaron Carter

34:34

How I Beat shack, he beat shock and

34:36

his dream was it a dream? Well,

34:38

he woke up and he was wearing Shaquille

34:41

O'Neil's jersey, so it wasn't a dream.

34:43

He did beat check, sort of like how

34:46

was Rose dreaming at the end of Titanic?

34:49

And some would say, yes, yes

34:51

she was, she wasn't and there's no proof.

34:54

And then and then I say, wait a minute,

34:57

I think it's just as viable

34:59

and option if she was dreaming, but

35:02

irrefutable proof.

35:04

You don't have a hair tie, you don't have the Shaquille

35:06

O'Neal jersey. Anyways,

35:10

anyways, let's take a break story.

35:13

Let's take a quick break, and we'll come right back, and

35:22

we're back. Amy, is there anywhere

35:24

you would like to start

35:27

anything jumping out to you right away? Um?

35:29

I guess like there's there's

35:31

a lot of contexts. I think it's really interesting for

35:34

this story. Um.

35:37

Yeah, I think in particular, there's

35:39

like, again, the localization was

35:42

pretty incredible all things considered,

35:45

and I do think that is again a really

35:47

really big reason why the movie

35:49

did so well and was so successful

35:52

in English. Um. But I

35:54

do think that the context for this

35:57

story and why it stands out compared

35:59

to early or ghibli works

36:01

is really important. So um,

36:03

the I guess the main thing being that,

36:06

you know, Miyazuki has said that

36:08

he made this movie because

36:10

he had realized he hadn't made a movie for

36:13

like, uh, for young girls

36:15

yet. Like I would say, kikiS liber

36:17

service kind of is, but that is an adaptation

36:19

and um in this case, like,

36:22

so what he did, he like was interacting

36:25

I think with like some daughters

36:27

of his friends and realized that like he

36:29

hadn't made a story for them quite yet. Um.

36:31

So you know, UM, I think that's part

36:34

of why, um, you know, to Hero is

36:36

ten years old. I think that this story

36:38

and the the way that he kind of got the

36:40

idea was reading um comics

36:43

that were being published at this time. The

36:46

readings that I saw specifically cited um

36:48

Nakashi Magazine and Ribbon

36:50

Magazine, and these are two of the major uh

36:53

they're like basically three major magazines

36:56

for young girls in terms of comics

36:58

that published monthly, and um

37:00

Naco she's a big one because that's like where Sailor

37:02

Moon was published in a bunch of stuff like that. And

37:05

so I was looking back at the I

37:08

went specifically to look back at what was being published

37:10

in you know, and

37:13

two thousand for what he probably

37:15

was reading basically, and you

37:17

know, yeah, so you know,

37:20

luckily, because these are really big magazines, it's

37:22

really easy to get the information, and so

37:24

you know, just looking at some of the stuff,

37:27

um, you know, they're they're all like

37:29

there's you know, other magical girls at this time.

37:32

Um, and uh there's

37:34

also like stories like the UFO

37:37

Baby, um, which is like an

37:39

alien baby comes from space and like

37:41

someone has to take care of it or whatever. Like, uh,

37:43

there's lots of all kinds of really ridiculous

37:46

fun things that happened. Um, there's a lot of sci

37:48

fi and fantasy elements in these

37:51

stories. But I think that as

37:53

far as stuff that is kind of relevant to spread

37:55

it away, I think one of the major things

37:57

is, like, you know, a lot of these comics for

37:59

why think, Uh, these comics are almost

38:02

always illustrated

38:04

and written by women. It's

38:06

like this particular genre of

38:08

comics for girls in Japan,

38:10

it's very for for

38:12

you know, decades now, has been a very female

38:15

lead um industry. But

38:18

um, you know, these are stories that are

38:20

meant to appeal to like this exact demographic,

38:23

so there's often like a little bit of romance.

38:26

Um there is uh

38:28

to have like characters like a hawk like

38:31

character, right who is like you know, like you mentioned

38:33

like this kind of eternal boyfriend or whatever. That

38:36

is not uncommon um,

38:39

but uh yeah, I think that one

38:41

thing that really stands out in comparison

38:43

to this movie is that a lot of the stories,

38:45

if they have fantasy or sci fi elements,

38:48

they're definitely more inspired by Western

38:50

things, while Spirited Away, of course, is extremely

38:53

Japanese. So I do think

38:55

that that is an interesting like difference,

38:57

I guess if that makes sense. Yeah,

39:01

yeah, And I was reading a lot about

39:03

that context too, in terms of you know, Miyazaki

39:06

wanting to create a film specifically

39:09

for ten year old girls, and which

39:11

I found interesting because like several

39:13

of his movies before that

39:16

are like very appropriate for

39:19

that specific target

39:21

demo, because like I was watching Toto

39:24

as a ten year old girl, like you know,

39:26

kikiS delivery services appropriate for

39:28

a ten year old girl, even though that character is a

39:31

few years older. But

39:33

I mean kids love a few years older. That's

39:35

aspiration. Um.

39:38

Yeah, that he was like reading these

39:41

comics and felt that

39:43

they only offered

39:45

material about like girls

39:48

and their crushes and romances,

39:50

and he felt that that's not what at

39:53

least like the you know, daughters

39:55

of his friends that he ended up wanting to make this

39:58

movie for what they deer

40:00

in their hearts. So he

40:03

wanted to make this movie and about a female

40:05

heroine that those girls could look

40:08

up to. So and

40:10

that's I think one of the other reasons that I didn't

40:12

read the Haku to hero

40:15

relationship as a romance, because he deliberately

40:17

was like, well, I don't want this to be about like crushes

40:21

and romance, but he gave us that

40:23

shot with the hands at the end, so you

40:25

know, right, But

40:27

also the movie doesn't center around

40:30

their relationship. It's more

40:32

about to hero, you know, doing

40:35

child labor. So yeah,

40:38

yeah, it's definitely her story,

40:40

which is important, um, and he

40:43

is like a factor of the story. But

40:45

like I think, you know, I definitely

40:48

see it as like something where I think

40:50

it's like, for example, I was trying

40:52

to think of like how they would take the

40:54

time to make it an explicit romance, and

40:56

like, I guess the thing that would have

40:58

to happen is like something like the kissing, But

41:01

that really seems unlikely

41:03

to me because like not

41:05

to say that kissing doesn't happen in kids stories

41:08

or whatever, especially with

41:10

like hetero stories, but like kissing

41:13

is a lot more um

41:15

for me, a lot more adult, a lot more sexualized

41:18

in Japanese culture, especially at

41:20

this time. Um but even

41:22

today it's still the case. Um.

41:24

So it's like it would be very

41:26

shocking to go that far. I think there would have been

41:29

issues if they had gone that far. And

41:32

I think that for the most part, with Miyazuki

41:34

films, they never actually go through, like fully

41:37

going in a romantic route, even if

41:39

they kind of have a lot of like implied

41:41

romance and a lot of subtext um

41:44

which is you know, nice for the reason

41:46

like you said, like you can opt in or out of

41:48

whether or not you read it as romantic,

41:51

which I think. I think it's more

41:53

clear in a story like um like

41:55

Ponio, which comes out later, and that's like

41:58

taking the Little Mermaid story but making

42:00

the characters five. It's very

42:02

interesting. Um

42:04

So it's like you really can't have like a romance

42:07

with five year olds that last forever exactly,

42:09

but they they so they changing

42:11

around. But um yeah,

42:14

I think with this story, like I

42:16

do like that, and I do think that it's it is

42:18

a thing where a lot of kids,

42:21

especially young girls who you

42:23

know might be interested in voice,

42:25

would uh like appreciate

42:28

that particular aspect. And yeah,

42:30

I think I definitely am. I

42:32

don't I know hashtag

42:34

phrases. Most of the

42:36

most of the kids I know who like grew

42:38

up with this movie also read it

42:41

as romantic, if that makes sense.

42:43

And when you contextualize it to where

42:46

Miyazaki was turning for inspiration and like, what

42:48

were girls you know who

42:50

were his target audience actually reading

42:54

and you know, pulling from magical

42:56

girl tropes in a way that felt

42:58

like it's still fit in with who he was as

43:00

a filmmaker. It's like, I don't

43:03

know, I wasn't for the reasons you were describing.

43:05

I mean, I wasn't really bothered by it, because you can

43:07

read it that way or not. It's

43:10

true to the like subculture

43:13

for young girls that he's pulling from,

43:16

and the story doesn't fall apart

43:18

if you don't view it romantically. The

43:20

story remains basically

43:23

the same. And I also, I mean, we

43:26

don't try to get in the habit of handing it to men too

43:28

much, but Miyazaki. I will make an exception

43:31

because just of how

43:33

I feel like it's very rare to see uh

43:37

male o'tour who we talked

43:39

about on this show all the damn time, and it

43:42

fits very cleanly into that description. But

43:44

someone who has committed to centering

43:48

women in his work very often,

43:50

And also I mean what you were describing,

43:53

it sounds like over time he

43:55

was more committed to it, which

43:57

I feel like often with male

44:00

tours, you see like I'll have one female

44:02

protagonist, so people will leave me alone. It

44:06

might there might be some holes in the

44:08

story and it might not be good, but

44:10

I did it. Uh here's

44:12

my gone girl or whatever you know,

44:15

and she's gone,

44:18

but she's not

44:20

in the movie anyways. But I appreciate

44:22

that, Like Miyazaki, like you're saying, Caitlin

44:25

like centered girls in his

44:27

work very frequently, but also was like, but I

44:29

can take it further, and I can, you

44:31

know, show this like spiritual

44:34

growth and like reconciling

44:36

capitalism and the sins of her

44:39

parents generation. I also loved this movie

44:41

hates boomers. It's like it's fun, Like

44:44

this movie like has in

44:46

a way that doesn't really single

44:49

out um to heroes.

44:51

Parents specifically, but

44:53

it's clear that like you

44:56

know, I mean, and then the more that I was reading

44:58

and researching, and I'm curious

45:01

to talk about this as well of just how

45:04

the parent characters and the pigs

45:06

of capitalism and all that was like reflecting

45:09

on Japan's fairly recent history

45:12

as well, and I just I

45:14

don't know, I really enjoyed learning about

45:16

Miyazaki's personal politics

45:18

through researching this. And we'll continue

45:21

to talking about this as we continue

45:23

talking about these movies. But his

45:25

movie is pretty consistently center

45:28

girls and women. Uh, they tend

45:30

to be very anti war. He won

45:32

an Oscar for this movie and didn't show up

45:34

to the ceremony because he

45:37

was protesting the war in Iraq and

45:39

America's brutal invasion,

45:41

and like he just really

45:43

appears to be a real one in many regards.

45:47

Yeah, yeah, And like

45:49

we've been discussing, he has,

45:52

it seems invested interest in exploring the

45:55

like inner lives of girls

45:58

and making movie that

46:01

I mean, children of all genders can

46:03

appreciate, but that like girls

46:05

especially can see themselves reflected in, especially

46:08

because his movies are like applauded

46:10

for their realism,

46:13

which might sound weird because a lot of them

46:15

are so heavy

46:17

with fantasy. That was a weird

46:19

way to say that, But I think fantasy

46:22

is really good. I like it's

46:25

like when you're heavy with greg when you're gregnant,

46:27

but you're heavy with fantasy. So

46:32

um. But just like the relatable

46:34

issues that a lot of the girls in his

46:37

movies are dealing

46:39

with, there are a lot of like you know, coming

46:41

of age stories they're dealing

46:43

with, just like different sources

46:46

of anxiety in their life. And we

46:48

see how that kind of manifests

46:51

in the super

46:53

imaginative stories that are

46:55

told in the movies. And I think

46:57

that's just like such an interesting thing

47:00

because so many male at tours

47:03

don't have that vested interest and they're

47:05

just like, let's make toxic masculinity

47:08

the movie five times in

47:10

a row, or even just like a

47:12

passing curiosity. And

47:14

another thing I mean that I

47:17

appreciate it is to

47:19

Hero's story speaks to kids

47:21

of all genders, and it's it's I

47:24

also appreciate that too, because I feel like sometimes

47:27

there's still this kind of convention right

47:29

now in this movie is twenty years old, but

47:31

there's still a convention of you

47:33

know, taking that like every

47:36

story is about fathers and sons, and then then just

47:38

being like inverting it and being like, Okay,

47:40

we're gonna put a girl at the center of this story, so

47:43

things have to be a little different, and that it

47:45

doesn't like she's a

47:47

relatable, motivated

47:50

character who like messes

47:53

up sometimes succeeds other times in

47:55

ways that make kind of a stunning

47:57

amount of sense in this like nonsense

47:59

where old that she's inhabiting.

48:02

I really liked um

48:04

when she first meets Hako and she's

48:06

told, you know, she's being told by everyone, don't trust

48:09

this person. Don't trust this person. Don't trust this person,

48:11

and it was like even unclear to

48:13

me, as if you were. I'm like, who can she trust? And

48:15

like watching her navigate that and

48:18

sometimes take one step in the wrong

48:20

direction and take a few like it just she's

48:23

just like a very realistically characterized

48:27

kid, and I like that she's you

48:29

know, rewarded for

48:31

not just taking gold,

48:34

Like she's like there's a dragon dying nearby.

48:36

I can't I can't with your

48:38

gold right now, you know? Yeah,

48:42

yeah, she has very clear priorities

48:44

and like, I mean, I do think

48:47

I was thinking about like how like in terms

48:49

of how she moves throughout the story, what

48:51

amount of it is her doing stuff

48:54

on her own. And like, you know, at the very

48:56

beginning, you know, Hawku is very clear about telling

48:58

her what to do. But once she gets to Camagi,

49:01

you know with that whole thing, um, you know, it's

49:03

up to her to actually convince him. And she

49:05

doesn't convince him to get a job there, but

49:08

um, she is able to you know, have

49:10

an effect to like at least enough of an

49:12

effect that he like pushes her in the

49:14

right direction, right, um, because it

49:16

could ev all like stopped there if you

49:18

know he said no and she's like, well, okay, I'm

49:21

screwed. But yeah, just

49:23

he's able to keep going and everything. So and

49:26

her her actions there and

49:28

throughout the movie, but like again

49:30

just kind of from that starting point in

49:32

the boiler room, like her

49:34

choice is there affect the trajectory of the story

49:36

because then she like picks up a

49:38

piece of coal and then

49:41

like throws it in the fire,

49:43

and I guess that shows like,

49:46

oh she is maybe capable. And

49:48

then actually something

49:50

I found really fascinating about this movie, And

49:53

I think it's so it's like so cool that

49:55

this is clearly or at least

49:58

the way I interpreted it, that the

50:00

experiences that she goes through in this

50:03

story are like manifest stations

50:05

of her anxiety of like moving to

50:07

a new place and like worrying if

50:09

people will accept her, and like having

50:11

to reorient everything about her life

50:14

because she has left all

50:16

of her friends behind and everything that

50:18

was familiar to her and she has to like navigate

50:20

this extremely unfamiliar situation,

50:24

and like that's so much of what happens

50:27

externally in the movie. So I thought that

50:29

was like just a really cool way

50:31

to like show a character's

50:34

anxieties manifested in

50:36

like a visual, physical

50:38

way. Um. But part of

50:40

that is her meeting all

50:42

these people and like having to just

50:46

kind of get a sense of them, and a lot of

50:48

the first impressions that we as

50:50

the audience get and that she gets turned

50:52

out to be wrong, because,

50:55

like, for example, Comagi seems

50:57

way scarier and meaner than

50:59

he actually is, and a lot of that is like kind of

51:01

the visual thing where it's like he has these

51:03

long spider like arms,

51:07

there are six of them, and he

51:09

starts out being really annoyed by her, but then

51:11

by the end of that scene he's like she's

51:14

my granddaughter. And

51:18

then like, Lynn also seems

51:20

like just very annoyed by Jahiro, and

51:23

it seems like she's going to be that way for

51:25

the entire movie. And I the

51:27

first time I watched this, I was like, oh, no, is this going to

51:29

be like a needlessly antagonistic

51:31

relationship between two female

51:34

characters. But it's not,

51:36

because as soon as Jahiro kind

51:38

of expresses some vulnerability and she's

51:41

like, I don't feel well and she's

51:43

very clearly overwhelmed by everything that's happening,

51:46

Lynn is like, oh my god, are you okay? Like,

51:48

and then she like kind of takes on this caregiver

51:51

role, or at the very least she becomes her

51:53

like ally and mentor. It

51:55

feels very like big history or

51:57

that. Guess maybe that was like my eat

52:00

of it as a kid, and

52:03

Lynn's character arc is so

52:05

interesting to me. I feel like revisiting

52:09

Lynn's character as like a

52:11

young adult under Capitalism, you really

52:14

feel for Lynn in

52:17

a way that I certainly. I

52:20

mean, as a kid, you're a percent

52:22

You're like, I am che hero and

52:24

that is my dragon boyfriend and

52:28

like, but but you

52:30

know, at this stage of my life,

52:32

I feel like the closest analog for for

52:34

most of us is Lynn, who is

52:37

working in a service role

52:40

in this big capitalistic

52:42

entity. She is well liked

52:45

but not well treated, and

52:47

and you don't get a ton of information about

52:49

her backstory, but what you do is so

52:51

like, so I don't know, just like the

52:54

the economy of storytelling is

52:56

so good because there

52:58

really one insight you it into who

53:01

she is and what she wants. Is like she watches

53:03

the train pass every day and wonders

53:05

like, when is it going to be my day to

53:08

to get on that train? And by

53:10

that she means not working

53:12

this dead end job that I don't

53:15

like and where I'm not treated well

53:17

and where you know, it becomes

53:19

her responsibility in a way that

53:21

you know, is it fair? Is it not? It's not fair,

53:24

but I think it's the right thing to do that she

53:27

she takes on to Hero and

53:29

almost sees like it seems like a younger

53:31

version of herself of like, well,

53:34

I hope that this kid can get on the

53:36

train, and then she does and it's nice.

53:38

Yeah, what's interesting is um,

53:40

I think it's really unclear And I think

53:42

also the voice actress choice in English

53:45

doesn't really help with this but according

53:47

to like the original story, there's like a I

53:49

mean, this is one of those things. There's like so many story

53:51

notes about this movie. Lynda

53:54

is supposed to be fourteen in the original

53:56

like iteration, yeah,

53:59

I guess that. Yeah, she's giving

54:01

me a hard thirty two, right.

54:04

I know she sounds she's out like an adult

54:06

in English for sure, and I feel

54:09

like I definitely got that when I was watching it in English

54:12

before. But like you know what, in preparation

54:14

for this podcast, I think the first thing I did was I watched

54:16

the full thing in Japanese without like taking

54:19

any notes or anything, and so I

54:21

feel like there are a few characters

54:23

that have pretty distinct differences, but hers is definitely

54:25

the biggest one. So like I think in Japanese,

54:28

she definitely sounds more like an older sister,

54:30

but like she's also like a like

54:33

the way she carries herself. She uses

54:35

like very like hyper masculine

54:37

language in a way that like she's like trying to I guess,

54:40

make up for the fact that like she is a

54:42

teenage girl. Um, I think it's

54:44

really interesting. But yeah, I definitely see her

54:46

as being a very much like a big sister to

54:49

Chito. For that reason. Yeah, I

54:51

liked their relationships so much, and that there was

54:53

like even moments

54:55

towards the end of the movie where there's

54:57

even like these passing moments in this movie

55:00

where the characters are

55:02

misjudging each other or like not

55:04

giving Like there's that moment that I was

55:07

like, I think it's Camagi

55:09

that says to Lynn in a

55:11

way that I thought it was a little bit harsh that

55:14

you know. Lynn was like, oh, what broke the

55:16

spell on Hakku? And

55:19

Camagi is like, love something

55:21

you've never felt in your life? And I

55:24

was like, WHOA, holyh

55:26

it. And I was like, I thought

55:29

you guys were like kind of friends. And

55:31

he's saying that in kind of the same breath where

55:33

he's like, yeah, I've had I know that it's your

55:35

one dream in your life to have a train ticket.

55:37

I've had one for thirty years. Anyways,

55:40

you've never felt love in your life. I was like, wow,

55:43

brutal. I

55:46

didn't think that was very nice to win. And then I was

55:48

worried that. I mean, I guess that that was it's

55:50

just like again speaking to like

55:52

how how good this is? Where I

55:54

feel like, especially in kids movies, sometimes

55:57

I am conditioned to think that

55:59

if there is a kind of dialogue spoken by

56:01

a character that I'm not supposed

56:03

to hate, I interpret their

56:06

dialogue as the moral compass of

56:08

the movie, because that's how a lot

56:10

of children's movies are written, where you're like, well,

56:12

I don't know if if fucking

56:14

Lumier says it,

56:16

it's probably how bad could it

56:18

be? But again, there's like shades

56:21

of grain and everyone in this movie where

56:23

like, we we like Camagi

56:25

as a character very much at this point, and then he

56:27

kind of like cuts Lynn down in this very

56:30

I thought, kind of I don't know why I was, so I was like

56:33

I was scandalized by it, and

56:36

I was worried that. I was like, oh, are we not

56:38

supposed to like Linn anymore? Because I still

56:40

like her? And then in the next scene,

56:43

Lynn is being her big

56:45

sister self again and she apologizes

56:48

to Chihiro for calling

56:50

her a dope, which is like, I

56:52

don't know what the translation, but I just

56:55

was like, what a worried to apologize

56:57

for. Later she's like, sorry,

57:00

I I said that when we first met, like

57:02

you're great and you're blah blah

57:04

blah, and so that weird

57:06

offhanded thing from Camogi isn't

57:08

how the movie felt, That's just how Camaji felt

57:11

in that moment. For some reason, I'm

57:13

like, where's Kamoji apologized

57:15

to Lynn? That wasn't very nice?

57:18

Yeah, I noticed a lot um

57:21

because they had the chance to to watch it in both

57:23

languages. I noticed that there are some

57:26

some things where the line read in

57:28

English is like more sarcastic

57:31

or more rude in some cases

57:33

than in Japanese, where it's like more straightforward

57:36

or more maybe not necessarily

57:38

like polite. Now I don't remember the line

57:40

read for like that exact thing, but like one thing I

57:42

remember for sure is um. You

57:44

know, in like near the beginning, Um, when

57:47

when is going to Chehito to ask

57:49

her to like eat the little berry

57:51

from the spirit worlds that she wouldn't disappear.

57:54

In English, he's like, don't worry,

57:56

you won't turn to a pig, like you know, making

57:58

a joke, but like in jack Nis, he's completely

58:01

serious about that line. So it's

58:03

really interesting, Like

58:05

there are there are definitely some interesting

58:08

things where like there

58:10

are kind of added things due to the localization,

58:13

which isn't bad. I think, you know, it's a

58:16

very very good localization and I think

58:18

again that it's part of why it's so successful.

58:21

Um yeah, that's

58:24

fascinating. I hate to give Disney a lot of credit,

58:26

but yeah, right, especially because

58:28

like John Lasseter had so much involvement

58:31

in this and you like never

58:35

pleasant to see him. Yeah, because

58:37

like because of him, um he like

58:40

they took on doing all the other Ghibli

58:43

movies from before and so,

58:45

um it's kind of interesting to like look

58:47

back at old like older Ghibli

58:49

movies that have now been dubbed by Disney

58:52

um and see like more familiar. There

58:54

are a a lot of Disney names and so on. But um,

58:57

I mean I think it's good because they're very

58:59

good at local ie thing and they

59:01

took they did a lot of things to like

59:03

kind of fill in um like

59:06

cultural things that might not be as clear

59:08

to an English speaking audience. Um,

59:10

Like there are there are lines that are completely different

59:13

because like they're trying to like explain

59:15

something because you know, you can't

59:17

expect everyone to know what like the Radish

59:19

spirit is or something like that. But um

59:22

oh, the other one that I remember was you

59:24

know when so because like Hito gives

59:27

the first half of that little uh

59:29

the little ball to um hakku

59:31

and that's when he vomits out the seal and the slug.

59:35

Yeah, and she has to step on it, and they like

59:37

explain the whole thing with like putting her

59:39

forefinger and thumb together, and they

59:42

don't explain that in Japanese. Um, they

59:44

just do it. But because

59:46

Kamachi's off screen and they're able to like add that

59:48

line in and stuff. So it was like very

59:51

very clever, yeah and helpful. Yeah

59:56

that I mean, I wish I wish I knew

59:59

more about that process without

1:00:01

having to watch twenty minutes of John

1:00:04

Last that are talking, because it is so fascinating.

1:00:06

Like, yeah, I think,

1:00:08

I mean, I have the Blue Ray

1:00:10

in uh in English because wow

1:00:13

brag, Yeah,

1:00:15

but so you can watch it. I think the

1:00:18

North American Blue Ray has both the

1:00:20

English and French dub as well as the original

1:00:22

Japanese and even the French localization

1:00:25

is different. It's really interesting.

1:00:27

Yeah, I mean, and in the Disney dub, I mean you

1:00:30

we I guess mentioned this right

1:00:32

away where I was like hercules,

1:00:35

but they they really I mean, and

1:00:37

usually when I say usually

1:00:40

when anyone says Disney, it's pejorative,

1:00:43

but in this one it was kind of it

1:00:45

was like funny to me, just like how

1:00:47

specifically this era Disney the

1:00:50

dub cast is where literally the

1:00:52

voice of Lilo is the voice

1:00:55

of Hiro, the voice of

1:00:57

Max goof of a goofy

1:00:59

movie is Haku. Like,

1:01:01

it's so Disney, what about

1:01:04

an extremely goofy movie though,

1:01:07

Yeah, same guys work.

1:01:12

The guy who did Cogsworth and

1:01:14

Beauty and the Beast is Comagi.

1:01:16

I mean, the list goes on. It's

1:01:20

it's a whole lot of a

1:01:22

whole lot of um.

1:01:24

Anyways, let's take

1:01:27

a quick break and come

1:01:29

back for more discussion, and

1:01:37

we're back. I said a few more

1:01:39

thoughts on to Hero's

1:01:42

character before we kind

1:01:44

of move into the next area.

1:01:48

Yeah, I mean one thing that

1:01:50

struck me, I mean is and this

1:01:52

is again such a small thing, but

1:01:55

I like that she is consistently

1:01:57

positioned as even when she is confused

1:02:00

and doesn't know what to do, she's always positioned

1:02:03

as a strong, resilient

1:02:06

character. Like her not knowing

1:02:08

what's going on or not having the

1:02:10

skill that she needs yet is never posed

1:02:13

as like a reason

1:02:15

to judge her in a way that sometimes they

1:02:17

think we're like conditioned to see female

1:02:20

characters, especially young female characters

1:02:22

as like helpless and damseled

1:02:24

and unable to get out of

1:02:26

their predicament on their own. A

1:02:28

lot of that is to to Disney movies

1:02:31

that you know, we're working on the same

1:02:33

movie or or the like. The

1:02:36

I guess converse of that is that the

1:02:38

right word? Why did my brain shut off?

1:02:40

Anyway? The inverse? I was like, it's

1:02:42

not converse. That can't be right the shoe.

1:02:47

The inverse of that is the

1:02:50

precocious you know, ten or twelve

1:02:52

year old girl that we see all the time, where they

1:02:54

somehow are geniuses with PhD

1:02:56

s and they know everything about all adult

1:02:59

things. None of that is is

1:03:01

present in two Hero. And

1:03:04

on top of that, like she is

1:03:06

not, I mean she is. She openly

1:03:09

cries at several times in the story

1:03:11

in a way that again it is like

1:03:13

she's allowed to have these

1:03:16

moments of strength and decisiveness.

1:03:18

She's allowed to have moments where she has no idea what the

1:03:20

fun is going on, because like you, as the viewer,

1:03:22

I have no idea what the funk is going on? And

1:03:25

you have moments where she like very understandably

1:03:27

in the way that any character, but particularly

1:03:29

a ten year old who has just lost her parents

1:03:32

to becoming a pig, which

1:03:35

also I was like, I wonder how Miyazaki

1:03:38

was into animal Farm and the answer

1:03:40

is very he was very into animal

1:03:43

Farm and it shows.

1:03:46

But but that she's allowed these moments of intense

1:03:48

emotional vulnerability in a way that doesn't

1:03:51

take like it only elevates her

1:03:53

character, because I feel like that it just like reminds

1:03:55

you, as an adult viewer now like this

1:03:58

is a child, and

1:04:01

and like, of course she's going

1:04:03

to cry when confronted,

1:04:05

but yet another stranger who she doesn't

1:04:07

know if she can trust or not. And

1:04:10

I liked that she's very

1:04:12

much a hero and an aspirational character

1:04:14

for kids watching, but in a

1:04:16

way that again for the for the

1:04:18

genre, and like the situation she's

1:04:21

in, it feels really realistic of like how

1:04:23

a kid would react in that situation.

1:04:25

Yeah, can we talk about the first time

1:04:28

she cried, because that's like a really I

1:04:30

think a big I think one of

1:04:32

the visually one of the more iconic

1:04:34

parts of the whole movie. But yeah,

1:04:37

because like for the first part of her being in

1:04:39

the bathhouse, she's like kind of just holding

1:04:41

everything in, um, you know, doing

1:04:44

what she has to do, and like not really

1:04:46

complaining about it or anything, just like

1:04:48

being really headstrong because she has to

1:04:50

be. But then it's like we see

1:04:52

that, you know, she's having trouble sleeping, and

1:04:55

then how coo, Like while she's a

1:04:57

while she's in the room with all the other women,

1:05:00

he kind of like sneaks and is like, oh, meet me by

1:05:03

you know this by the bridge, and she

1:05:05

goes, and like they do the whole thing with the parents,

1:05:07

and he gives her clothes back because she

1:05:09

needs them to go back to the human world, and

1:05:12

she and also the cards and she can remember her

1:05:14

name, and then he gives her the rice

1:05:16

balls um which he says I

1:05:18

don't know if they're actually is a spell on them or

1:05:20

if he just saying that, but he says like, oh,

1:05:22

this will give you your strength back. And

1:05:25

I think it's basically the same in Japanese.

1:05:27

And that's the first time she cries, and

1:05:29

she cries so big, like her

1:05:31

eyes well up in her like it's just like her

1:05:33

entire eye just like turns into a

1:05:35

puddle. It's it's definitely an iconic

1:05:38

like visual to say the least. But

1:05:40

I think it's really interesting that like it's when

1:05:42

she's you know, finally given that chance

1:05:44

to be vulnerable and like let it all out that like you

1:05:46

can really see that she is has

1:05:49

been holding in those tears the whole

1:05:51

time. Yeah, and that's

1:05:53

what's so great all this

1:05:56

movie. And again I haven't

1:05:58

watched all of Miyazaki's work,

1:06:00

but of the ones

1:06:03

that I have seen

1:06:05

and can speak to his treatment

1:06:08

of these characters in

1:06:11

showing them being active and

1:06:13

making choices but making mistakes,

1:06:16

and being vulnerable but

1:06:19

having the strength to

1:06:21

go on and do what you need to do and just like all

1:06:23

of these like aspirational and

1:06:25

empowering qualities that

1:06:28

like young girls can see and

1:06:30

admire. That to me is

1:06:32

the most like one of the most effective

1:06:35

versions of feminism in

1:06:38

movies, more so than for

1:06:41

example, my favorite example to make

1:06:43

fun of is like when in

1:06:45

whatever Avengers movie when all of

1:06:47

the like seven

1:06:50

female superheroes like start walking

1:06:52

beside each other and they're like, and now

1:06:54

it's our turn, and we're gonna have this one

1:06:56

moment for twenty seconds

1:06:58

in the movie where we're awesome

1:07:01

to protect Spider Man, right,

1:07:04

Like It's so it's

1:07:06

like, truly just treat women like

1:07:09

people, like that's all you just described

1:07:11

as treating a people character

1:07:13

like a person, like the's a complicated

1:07:15

person, which, like when I

1:07:18

was reading a few different accounts of like people

1:07:21

being like it's so cool that

1:07:23

your movies are so feminist

1:07:25

Muzaki, and he was like, I

1:07:28

don't know about that. I just want to entertain

1:07:31

people and write interesting characters.

1:07:33

So yeah, like that's

1:07:35

all it takes. Yeah, yeah,

1:07:38

definitely, Like obviously, I'm really

1:07:40

happy that this movie does feature a ten

1:07:42

year old girl, but you wouldn't have

1:07:44

to change anything about the movie if it

1:07:46

was about a ten year old boy or a ten year old on

1:07:48

my dairy child, So like it's yeah,

1:07:51

it's it's pretty great, right, Yeah, I love

1:07:53

I love to hear so much. Um Also,

1:07:56

she saves a boy, she doesn't

1:07:58

have to be well I guess. I mean you can

1:08:01

make an argument that like he at the beginning

1:08:03

like saves her a little bit and like gets

1:08:05

her away from immediate

1:08:07

danger, but it feels like an

1:08:09

exchange of movie

1:08:11

I'm cutting it too much, like but like it

1:08:13

feels like a friendship exchange.

1:08:16

And then because she saves him

1:08:19

by going on a long journey with her

1:08:22

new friends on a train and apologizing

1:08:25

and all that and you

1:08:27

know, feeding him a ball. Yeah,

1:08:31

should we should we talk about capitalism?

1:08:36

Let's do it feel like it was going to come

1:08:38

up hit it? Yeah? So I again,

1:08:41

I don't know. I learned

1:08:44

a lot about the end

1:08:46

of the twentieth century economy in

1:08:48

Japan via

1:08:51

learning about this movie. I'm sure we all

1:08:53

did you you probably do more than

1:08:55

we did already. Um, this

1:08:57

movie is really interest I mean the way

1:08:59

that it gets a really

1:09:01

solid criticism of capitalism

1:09:04

that it can work for anyone, but also

1:09:06

works very specifically for Japan

1:09:09

at the time this movie came out and works again

1:09:11

like both ways is so

1:09:14

incredible to me. Where it's like, I guess speaking

1:09:16

to it in the broad sense, the

1:09:19

bath house is this capitalist entity.

1:09:22

You know, you have your your

1:09:24

character at your at the top your you

1:09:26

Boba's of the world. Um,

1:09:29

she's dressed in a more i think traditionally

1:09:31

like Western way. She

1:09:33

doesn't interact with the working class

1:09:37

like her whole I mean, and it's like to the point where it's

1:09:39

like she's known for taking your name, stripping

1:09:41

you of your identity, overworking

1:09:44

you, and being very, very unfeeling

1:09:47

toward anyone who isn't

1:09:49

her own plight. She's

1:09:52

only responsive to people

1:09:54

once she finds out that they have money, and

1:09:57

even then, I mean, I think I think it's

1:09:59

a just another like shade of gray that comes up

1:10:01

in this movie. Is like she's

1:10:04

very like Mr Crabs motivated

1:10:06

I would say, by

1:10:09

by money. When she finds out that

1:10:11

No Face has a ton of money.

1:10:14

At first she's thrilled until

1:10:16

No Face becomes too unruly

1:10:19

and two other and then she's like, Okay, you're actually

1:10:21

a monster and you're you're bad. You have to get

1:10:23

the funk out. And she did essentially

1:10:26

one of the different version of the

1:10:28

same thing to the Stink Monster

1:10:31

when he came in, where it's like, Okay, I'll take

1:10:33

your money, but I'm not going to respect

1:10:36

you or consider your plight, and just like

1:10:39

and and then you know, putting hiro in

1:10:42

in in kind of contrast to that, where

1:10:45

to Hero, like she doesn't want to

1:10:48

financially profit from being trapped

1:10:50

here. She just wants her family and she

1:10:52

wants her basic needs met and she wants

1:10:54

her friends to be okay, you

1:10:57

know, but she's like put into child lay,

1:11:00

I mean, and then on

1:11:02

the other end, you there's just so many different,

1:11:04

like different ways and then with Lynn

1:11:06

you have another perspective of like someone

1:11:09

who clearly resents the capitalist

1:11:11

system but feels stuck there and

1:11:13

feels unable to get out, and she's very

1:11:15

much a cog in a wheel. And then this

1:11:18

I'm not quite as sure of. UM,

1:11:21

So if anyone knows more, please jump

1:11:24

in. But I based on the research

1:11:26

I was doing and like reading interviews

1:11:28

that were happening at the time of the release of

1:11:30

this movie, UM,

1:11:32

I thought it was like I learned at

1:11:34

least a little from what she heroes

1:11:37

parents are supposed to resent represent

1:11:40

in terms of like the specific moment they appear

1:11:42

in where um. And again I didn't

1:11:44

know this. I mean it was like pretty

1:11:47

true in the U s as well, But like that in the

1:11:49

eighties, you know, there's a huge capitalist

1:11:53

fucking boom across extremely

1:11:55

industrialized nations.

1:11:58

And it sounds like a lot of what Zaki

1:12:00

was trying to say with the parent characters in

1:12:03

you know, them disrespecting

1:12:05

the spiritual grounds that they arrived

1:12:07

on, consuming, consuming,

1:12:09

consuming, without any care for

1:12:12

whose work they were consuming,

1:12:15

who was making it, whether we're gonna

1:12:17

pay or not. They were just sort of like, who cares,

1:12:19

it's here, let's go let's go nuts, and

1:12:22

that as a criticism of

1:12:25

that generation of middle

1:12:28

class, upper middle class and above in

1:12:30

Japan, I that is just

1:12:32

I mean, I definitely didn't know that when I was ten. Now,

1:12:38

another thing I thought was cool about

1:12:41

to Hero's characters specifically was

1:12:44

again, and it's her who figures out that

1:12:46

the stink spirit is not actually a

1:12:48

stink spirit. It's you know, there's

1:12:51

something else going on. There was like something

1:12:53

wedged in that spirit's

1:12:56

body, and it turns out to be a

1:12:58

bunch of liketion base sickly

1:13:01

right, so we also have some like cool environmental

1:13:03

themes happening. But um,

1:13:06

she figures it out to Hero saves

1:13:08

the day with that river spirit,

1:13:11

and the river spirit leaves behind all

1:13:13

of this gold, and you Baba is like,

1:13:15

oh my gosh, Chihiro, actually you're awesome

1:13:17

now, thank you so much. And it's

1:13:19

not until that happens that you Baba

1:13:22

respects Chihiro in any way. And

1:13:25

for maybe a different person they'd

1:13:28

be like, oh, well, if I can make

1:13:30

my boss more money, then I'll get

1:13:32

more respect, So then I should make it

1:13:34

a point to try to make my boss more money.

1:13:37

Uh. But instead she heroes

1:13:39

like every time gold is offered

1:13:41

to her, She's like, I don't want your fucking

1:13:43

gold. I'm trying to help out my dragon

1:13:46

boys always like dragon fleeting

1:13:48

nearby. So

1:13:50

I thought that was cool and uh, leftist

1:13:53

icon Chihiro. Yeah, I

1:13:55

think what's really interesting, Um, and

1:13:57

this is kind of again, like I get

1:14:00

really present in a lot of Japanese

1:14:02

media for girls, is that like the fact that

1:14:05

she doesn't really care about money,

1:14:07

it also does feel like a part of her upbringing

1:14:10

and her privilege that she's never had to worry about

1:14:12

money. Yeah, especially

1:14:15

the way that like her father talks about

1:14:17

you know how it's okay they're going to eat all this

1:14:19

food because he has credit cards in cash,

1:14:21

you know, like no problem.

1:14:23

Um. But like, and that definitely does sound

1:14:25

like something apparent at the time might

1:14:28

say, but I do think that,

1:14:30

Um it's it's kind of I guess

1:14:32

I have mixed feelings about her not caring

1:14:35

about money, because, um, it definitely

1:14:37

is you know a thing where like when

1:14:39

she refuses to take old from from No Face

1:14:41

in that one scene, which because she's trying to go help

1:14:44

Haku. Um, the one

1:14:46

guy was like, Oh, don't worry about her, She's just a

1:14:48

human. She doesn't know any better. And it does feel

1:14:50

like human is a kind

1:14:52

of placeholder for child in that way

1:14:54

where it's like children don't know about money,

1:14:57

like they don't know any better. Yeah,

1:15:00

yeah, it is complicated, which is like,

1:15:02

but that's why I'm glad that Lynn is there

1:15:04

to like present a

1:15:06

sympathetic character that we're rooting for

1:15:09

who is stuck in it. And and unfortunately,

1:15:11

I feel like we're led to believe that she kind of remains

1:15:14

stuck in it. We kind of leave her there. It's not

1:15:16

like she got on the train unfortunately,

1:15:19

which again is like, I don't know. I mean, that's

1:15:22

an interesting bittersweet. I hope Camogi

1:15:24

had another ticket. I don't know. I

1:15:27

can't believe he told her he had another ticket the whole

1:15:29

time. That's so mean. Uh, Anyways,

1:15:31

team Lynn over here, because you would,

1:15:34

you would. You're led to believe I mean

1:15:36

that you know, Lynn probably

1:15:38

did not grow up with very much

1:15:40

if that's a job that she is unable

1:15:43

to leave, So you're totally righty,

1:15:45

I mean, where it you know hiro

1:15:47

does? I mean she benefits from

1:15:49

the privilege of being a child

1:15:52

and not having but also

1:15:54

she she benefits from being a child who

1:15:57

like worrying about money has we're sort

1:15:59

of it to believe is not a big issue for her

1:16:02

because her parents are driving

1:16:04

out capitalists who turn into

1:16:07

yeah Orwellian uh, you

1:16:09

know, Orwellian figures.

1:16:11

So so there's yeah, there's definitely

1:16:14

I appreciate that there's at least foils

1:16:16

to that. And then especially

1:16:18

and then that leads right into the fact that

1:16:20

like we're joking about it, but the fact that you

1:16:23

know, Jahiro is constantly like, I

1:16:26

don't want your money. There's a dragon

1:16:28

bleeding in the other room. The dragon

1:16:31

bleeding in the other room is Haku, who

1:16:33

ends up being this, you know, big metaphor

1:16:36

for the environment because and

1:16:38

again, just like another one offline

1:16:41

that revisiting it now you're like,

1:16:43

oh my god, like where

1:16:46

you know they're they're literally falling out of

1:16:48

the sky having a very calm conversation,

1:16:50

which I love um. And

1:16:53

and she's like, she's like you're

1:16:56

the river and he's like, I am the

1:16:58

river. Damn it's true. That's

1:17:00

exactly what he says. And but

1:17:04

then but then she's like, I know

1:17:07

that what that river is, it doesn't They filled

1:17:09

it in and its apartments now and

1:17:11

he's like, oh, that must be why I'm not a river

1:17:14

anymore, and like just that

1:17:16

you know now you're like, oh, you

1:17:18

know exactly what Miyazaki

1:17:21

is trying to do. And then Haku

1:17:24

is also utilized as a character as

1:17:26

I think, I mean, as as I guess I'm

1:17:29

kind of yet another in

1:17:31

into capitalism commentary

1:17:33

that's different from Lenz because

1:17:36

he is this environmental symbol

1:17:39

who ends up in the pocket of

1:17:42

capitalism, which um

1:17:45

like he is. You Baba's

1:17:47

like, uh uh you know he's

1:17:49

her what, her assistant, her

1:17:52

apprentice, and it sounds

1:17:54

like he's again I'm like, I don't know that

1:17:57

I feel bad when someone steals

1:17:59

from you bomba.

1:18:03

People seems like redistribute except

1:18:06

for the baby and uh, you

1:18:09

know, best of luck to the baby.

1:18:11

Shout out to the baby. The baby was supposed

1:18:13

to represent, but it

1:18:16

was really big. I actually do

1:18:18

think there's something I have. I do have thoughts

1:18:20

about um both the baby

1:18:23

um because so

1:18:25

like I mean, you Baba is for

1:18:28

anyone who is listening for some reason and

1:18:30

hasn't watched the movie. You Baba is very

1:18:33

differently designed from all the other characters.

1:18:35

She does have like western South dress, you as a giant

1:18:38

head, and that's part of why she has a giant baby.

1:18:40

But she's also like an older woman and

1:18:43

that of her giant head. Yeah,

1:18:45

I don't know where um um.

1:18:49

But in any case, yeah, like

1:18:52

we we don't really know much about like

1:18:54

why she would be an older woman with this

1:18:57

baby, but this baby is huge

1:18:59

but also mentally very much a baby.

1:19:01

And then we later learned that the baby can in fact

1:19:03

speak perfectly fine and speaks in full

1:19:05

sentences. Um. And it's

1:19:08

like it's like very interesting because

1:19:10

it's like this is a baby that has been

1:19:13

uh for as long as we know, like the for

1:19:15

its whole life, has been trapped in this

1:19:18

one room and you know, he's like afraid

1:19:20

of going outside. Um, which

1:19:22

is like kind of almost like the polar opposite to Jigito

1:19:24

situation to me, where like she's,

1:19:27

yeah, she's exploring a whole new world. She's

1:19:29

facing all these challenges herself, and even

1:19:32

if she is afraid, she doesn't let

1:19:34

that stop her from moving forward. So

1:19:37

um, I think it's really interesting. And then and

1:19:40

I wanted to say um because we haven't talked

1:19:42

about it yet, but I think the

1:19:44

names of the characters are very important

1:19:47

and um in particular, Like,

1:19:49

so the big word that's used a lot

1:19:51

in this story is spirits, which

1:19:53

would be coming in Japanese,

1:19:56

but when it comes to the mythology stuff is

1:19:58

not really one to one and coming can both

1:20:00

spirits and then full on gods. So

1:20:03

like and in particular, Kohaku's

1:20:06

name, his real name is actually different

1:20:08

in Japanese. So

1:20:11

his his name in Japanese is Niki

1:20:13

Hayami Khaki and it's

1:20:15

meant to invoke like the name of a god

1:20:18

or so the idea is like he was a

1:20:20

full on god and then like

1:20:23

cannot return home because of

1:20:25

you know, environmentalism. So she's got a dragon

1:20:27

boyfriend slash river boyfriend

1:20:30

slash god boyfriend,

1:20:32

yes, magical

1:20:34

girl troups, yes,

1:20:37

yes, very much. So my boyfriend

1:20:39

is god yea, yeah

1:20:41

exactly. So it's uh, it's pretty interesting.

1:20:44

Um yeah, it's like it's not really like

1:20:47

clear, but like you could definitely make that like

1:20:49

distinction that like he is he

1:20:51

was a god before you know all this,

1:20:53

And again he's a god that looks

1:20:56

twelve years old apparently, So yeah

1:20:59

that's fast. I had no idea. Yeah,

1:21:02

um, but yeah, the names are so interesting

1:21:04

to me in general for the movie,

1:21:06

if it's okay to talk about it, please

1:21:09

yes. So, Like, even the name Tchihito

1:21:12

itself, it's like this name

1:21:14

was at the time one of

1:21:16

the most popular

1:21:18

like names, Like it's basically like

1:21:21

the most not the most average name

1:21:23

for a ten year old, but pretty average for ten

1:21:25

year old at this time. UM actually

1:21:27

went through the data of like name rankings

1:21:30

UM in Japanese and found

1:21:32

that like her name peaked at the

1:21:35

number four spots.

1:21:38

It's not really as big now. I

1:21:40

think for the most part, people who name their kids to

1:21:43

heto these days are specifically naming it

1:21:45

after this character. Yeah.

1:21:47

Um, but her name basically means like a

1:21:50

thousand questions, so

1:21:52

like she's like like asking a thousand things. So

1:21:54

the cheat in her name once

1:21:56

you take away the second part, it does become

1:21:59

send, So send means one thousand in Japanese,

1:22:01

so that's like very deliberate. And

1:22:03

you know, the Japanese title of this

1:22:05

movie is Santotio Kai

1:22:08

Kai so San and two Heroes Spiriting

1:22:10

Away. Yeah, and

1:22:12

the other thing I think that's really interesting

1:22:14

about the way the movie looks

1:22:17

um like the kind of spirit

1:22:19

restaurant area that they go to before

1:22:21

the bathhouse. Um, I believe

1:22:23

it is very inspired by a specific

1:22:26

place in I want to say,

1:22:28

I can't remember it's Taiwan or China specifically,

1:22:31

but there is like an actual place and the

1:22:33

food that the parents eat is those are

1:22:35

real things you can eat, um, which is pretty

1:22:38

cool. But um, I do think it's interesting

1:22:40

that they went outside of Japan for those

1:22:42

uh for this images, and like all

1:22:45

the signs and stuff are super weird. Um.

1:22:48

I think my favorite one is uh, I was looking

1:22:50

at some like there's a shot where

1:22:53

you know she's first running through and you start to see spirits

1:22:56

and there's like lanterns that

1:22:58

say come here but

1:23:00

backwards. Um, so it's like super

1:23:02

creepy. Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:05

And then the bath house itself. I

1:23:07

think the first thing is the name of the bath house

1:23:09

is written backwards and

1:23:12

um, you can be um

1:23:14

the you and like you baba. For example, it means

1:23:17

hot water, but for

1:23:19

the bath house name, they don't use you as

1:23:21

in hot water. They use you as an oil,

1:23:24

which is really interesting. So

1:23:26

you see that the character for oil everywhere.

1:23:29

Um, you Baba's name basically just

1:23:31

means like hot water lady or

1:23:33

how hot her grandmother? I don't

1:23:35

know, it's like kind of is not a really direct translation.

1:23:38

And then her twin sister, Zenniba Zennise

1:23:41

comes from like a public bath, which

1:23:43

is interesting, so it's like two different Yeah,

1:23:46

OK, because she's a twin of the people. Yeah

1:23:50

yeah, yeah for sure. Um

1:23:52

yeah. And then like names like like Kamaji

1:23:55

just means pretty literally boiler

1:23:57

old man, like it's very yeah,

1:24:01

but yeah, those are like I guess for me, like this, like

1:24:03

the major names, there is a shot

1:24:05

where you can see all the names, um

1:24:08

where like they're kind of turning their their time

1:24:10

cards. I guess they'll have their names on

1:24:12

them, and like you can see they're all like super

1:24:15

short names that were clearly

1:24:17

like taken from a longer name.

1:24:20

I think that's really cool, um to

1:24:22

say, like you Bobba stole their original

1:24:25

name and replaced it with something like simpler.

1:24:28

Yeah basically yeah, so it's

1:24:30

it's pretty cool. It's pretty interesting. So

1:24:33

you can assume the same thing happened to lenn

1:24:35

as well. Um right right, her

1:24:38

name used to be Caitlin want

1:24:42

I I do wish we knew

1:24:45

a little more about line, but it's like we what we

1:24:47

do learn, It's like enough for the story

1:24:49

to to work and work and work. But it's

1:24:52

just like, oh, I want to know. We got

1:24:54

to find out what how cou'se deal was,

1:24:57

What is Linn's deal. I

1:24:59

didn't didn't know that this is going

1:25:01

to radicalize me in favor

1:25:03

of working class icon Lynn.

1:25:06

But she's you know,

1:25:08

she's got the union going in there now I

1:25:11

know it. I know it. Or

1:25:13

maybe she escaped in that little

1:25:16

like circular pedal boat thing.

1:25:19

I have to say. Um.

1:25:21

I wanted to talk about the

1:25:23

character design, specifically of you

1:25:25

Baba and Zaniba, since

1:25:28

they are identical where

1:25:30

they are the only two old

1:25:32

women in the story,

1:25:35

and the character design

1:25:38

and I guess this is subjective,

1:25:41

but it's not the most

1:25:43

flattering character

1:25:46

wo hot take. I mean, maybe

1:25:48

some people look at you Baba and I was like, wow,

1:25:50

what a sexy bitch, but and

1:25:54

they're right to do so. Well maybe

1:25:56

maybe where is Zoniba you Baba is, but

1:25:59

right like that, I think

1:26:01

that any older I mean, there's the only

1:26:03

older women in the story, and they're pretty aggressively

1:26:06

othered and how they appear

1:26:08

and how they look. And I was worried

1:26:11

that like this movie was leaning

1:26:13

into villainizing the

1:26:15

only old female

1:26:18

character we get to know, especially

1:26:20

because we only Zeneba

1:26:23

doesn't show up until maybe like halfway

1:26:25

through the movie, or maybe even later than

1:26:27

that longer. Yeah, so

1:26:30

for a long time, it's just

1:26:32

this one older female character, and

1:26:34

she's the villain, and she's designed

1:26:37

to be pretty grotesque and scary and

1:26:40

all this stuff. So I was

1:26:42

concerned about the handling of that. And

1:26:44

then you meet Zeneba, who

1:26:47

is similarly scary and aggressive

1:26:50

at first, but then she's

1:26:52

one of those characters who seems one way

1:26:55

at first, and then when we see her again,

1:26:58

like when to Hero pay her

1:27:00

a visit to give back the Golden

1:27:03

Steel, suddenly she's

1:27:05

this sweet granny,

1:27:09

literally granny making scrunch

1:27:11

ees on a loom. You're like, oh, yes,

1:27:13

granny. And then I love how she kind of takes

1:27:16

in no face too nice.

1:27:20

I was. I I didn't quite know where to

1:27:22

fall there, because I did for the vast

1:27:24

majority of the movie. Yeah, the only older woman

1:27:26

is mothered pretty aggressively in

1:27:29

a way that like, if you read it from a moralistic

1:27:32

standpoint, you're like, well, yeah, she's the you

1:27:34

know, she is the capitalist overlord

1:27:37

of the story, but also she's

1:27:39

the only older woman in the story, and that seems

1:27:41

maybe a little unfair. And the other

1:27:44

thing that I did pick up on there,

1:27:47

that is something we've

1:27:49

talked about with animated movies before. It's always

1:27:51

like a little ping annoyance

1:27:54

for me because I work in animation

1:27:56

and I'm always like, can we not do

1:27:58

this? And it always happens. Um

1:28:00

is, we have a lot of different

1:28:03

like I don't know, like the spirits come in all

1:28:05

different forms, they're all different animals,

1:28:07

they're all different, you know, they're they're

1:28:09

drawn and characterize all very differently,

1:28:12

but there's really only any sort of

1:28:14

like variety in

1:28:17

male coded characters. All

1:28:19

the women basically look like some

1:28:21

version of a youngish woman

1:28:24

who is a human. And that

1:28:26

always bugs me. And that's all like, no

1:28:29

matter how progressive you find an

1:28:31

animation, it's always like,

1:28:34

well, we don't wanna we don't want

1:28:36

to like have a fun mix of

1:28:39

body types and species in a

1:28:41

movie where literally anything cannon

1:28:43

does happen. So that was like a little

1:28:45

thing that I always kind of get

1:28:48

frustrated by, the most egregious example

1:28:50

that I think we've talked about, Caitlin. It's like I

1:28:52

always think of it as like ghostbuster syndrome

1:28:55

where all the you know, male coded

1:28:57

ghosts are like, well, I'm a pile of shit,

1:28:59

and then like the woman is like,

1:29:02

I'm a human woman that's really

1:29:04

horny, and you're like a super sexy,

1:29:07

horny ghost lady. And

1:29:09

obviously this is not you know, a sin

1:29:11

of that caliber, but I did, I did.

1:29:13

I was like, man, most of

1:29:15

the women we meet, with the exception of

1:29:18

the other older woman villain,

1:29:21

they all kind of look like generally

1:29:23

attractive, youngish human women.

1:29:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I

1:29:28

mean we haven't really talked about like it's

1:29:30

kind of hard to talk about diversity in

1:29:33

this movie, which is EMBOSSI about a

1:29:35

bunch of spirits, so

1:29:37

not like a lot of human characters or anything.

1:29:39

But you know, like the

1:29:42

only time, like the only character

1:29:44

who is has any sort of other

1:29:46

body shape is you know, you bab A Zuniba,

1:29:48

who again are drawn identically.

1:29:51

And then so there's like the really silly thing was

1:29:53

like, how can you not tell me, apart from your own

1:29:55

mother, to pull the baby? And it's

1:29:58

like, because you guys are drawn sati

1:30:00

the same um And she's

1:30:02

also the only like Zaniba who is supposed

1:30:04

to be the nice old lady is the only character that

1:30:07

like actually says something fat phobic to

1:30:09

Bow like he she comments on him

1:30:11

being really fat, like you know, a

1:30:14

chubby baby. And I

1:30:16

mean he's he's a giant baby,

1:30:18

but he's still very baby shaped. I

1:30:20

don't know, right, Yeah, he's

1:30:22

not like a grotesque or anything like, it's

1:30:24

not it's not he's not like drawn an exaggerated

1:30:27

way like to look like a very particularly scary

1:30:30

baby. He's just like a very big, fat

1:30:32

baby. But like most babies are

1:30:34

fat, right, And like, do

1:30:36

you guys know what movie we're watching? Like

1:30:41

yeah, exactly, Um,

1:30:43

but yeah, like it's you know, there isn't

1:30:45

really a lot of like I would it would

1:30:47

be really cool to have more diversity

1:30:50

of like especially with the female

1:30:52

spirits, like how they look. It's like basically

1:30:54

there are two types of female spirits.

1:30:56

There's the ones with like proportioned

1:30:59

heads that are similar to humans like Lynn,

1:31:01

and then there's the ones that have like very large heads.

1:31:03

And that's it. Like that's a that's

1:31:06

a variety and female characters

1:31:08

in this movie. Yeah,

1:31:10

but the O there's no other particular like and

1:31:13

again, we only have like basically one

1:31:15

human family that we're looking at.

1:31:17

So there isn't a lot of guests

1:31:20

room for diversity, but it would have

1:31:22

been nice if there was a little bit more.

1:31:24

Yeah, yeah, I

1:31:26

mean, speaking to Jahiro's

1:31:28

parents, what we do know of them, I do at

1:31:30

least appreciate that it's like they're both

1:31:33

damseled by the story, Like

1:31:35

it's not one you do get

1:31:38

that thing that I think we bumb up in movies

1:31:40

a lot, where it's like the dad is more gregarious

1:31:42

and likable and like seems

1:31:45

to be less of the disciplinary. And then Jahiro's

1:31:47

mom. Um, It wasn't a huge

1:31:50

issue for me because they're barely

1:31:52

in the movie, but I don't

1:31:54

know. Yeah, yeah, he's I guess he's he's

1:31:56

kind of like the fun dad. But also

1:31:59

her mom goes right along. She's

1:32:02

it's if anyone's like the come on,

1:32:04

don't you guys stop it, it's

1:32:07

Jahiro. Shahiro is the one

1:32:09

that's like, we're capitalism and too close

1:32:11

to the sun. Yeah,

1:32:13

because her mom's like, yeah, I'll fucking I'll

1:32:16

eat all this food, I'll go down this tunnel.

1:32:18

I don't give a ship. Yeah,

1:32:20

you know, their names don't come up in the actual

1:32:22

text, but they do have names. And

1:32:25

I think it's really funny because her

1:32:27

father's name is Akio, which the kanji

1:32:29

for which is a bright husband and

1:32:32

um and then her mother's

1:32:34

name is um Uko, which is like the

1:32:37

kanji is basically like like what's

1:32:39

it called, like a calm child, and

1:32:42

the child part being like that's a that's a

1:32:44

factor of you know, Japanese

1:32:46

girl's names more especially

1:32:48

at the time and older generations. In

1:32:50

recent years has like kind of fallen out of

1:32:53

favor. But child was a very common

1:32:55

character to use in girls names

1:32:57

compared to adults being used and boys

1:32:59

names or whatever. But um,

1:33:01

yeah, but like the idea, like she's like that

1:33:04

their names really match their personalities

1:33:07

and their generation. But

1:33:09

yeah, it's like they're they're very

1:33:12

much like chosen like kind of stock characters.

1:33:14

That makes sense. That yeah, that does

1:33:17

That's interesting. Um.

1:33:19

Does anyone have any final

1:33:21

thoughts about the movie?

1:33:24

My last thing was just, um,

1:33:26

no face. Uh. We've

1:33:28

talked about no Face a bunch where at different

1:33:31

times they appear as this

1:33:33

capitalism metaphor and then other times

1:33:35

I liked the I

1:33:38

mean, Shahiro has this I

1:33:40

guess like childlike

1:33:43

in a good way, but also just like this kind

1:33:45

of superhuman ability of like forgiveness

1:33:48

and a willingness for like

1:33:51

almost I think you can make an

1:33:53

argument for like Jahiro believes in restorative

1:33:56

justice, um

1:33:59

with at least with No with with No Face,

1:34:01

and also with the Stink Monster, where

1:34:03

she's you know, the central character who

1:34:05

does not judge people based on how

1:34:08

they look or um. I think like through

1:34:10

the story learns to you know,

1:34:12

at least challenge her first

1:34:14

impressions of people or what she's told

1:34:17

to think about the people in spirits and creatures

1:34:19

that she meets. And I was touched

1:34:22

by her relationship

1:34:24

with No Face, which in my memory I think

1:34:26

it's just because like that iconic

1:34:28

image of them together, I remember

1:34:31

the movie as them being together way more than they actually

1:34:33

are. Not true, They're actually not together very

1:34:36

much. Um, but

1:34:38

just that you know, No No Phase

1:34:40

does some shit, like No Face

1:34:44

is really committing some crimes in there and

1:34:46

eating some poor people, which

1:34:50

which I also would not have been

1:34:52

upset if Hiro was like No

1:34:54

Face it's been real, um,

1:34:57

but you need to go to therapy and work on yourself,

1:35:01

not my I'm not going to take on this emotional

1:35:03

labor at this time. No Face which

1:35:06

also would have been totally fair and I would have been completely

1:35:08

happy with that. But I just thought it was an interesting

1:35:11

creative choice, which maybe, again,

1:35:13

like Puts, we've mentioned this like,

1:35:16

uh, you know, Chihiro is taking on a

1:35:18

lot of people shit uh

1:35:20

in this story in a way that you

1:35:22

know, maybe it certainly isn't fair

1:35:24

to her, um, but she does it

1:35:27

willingly. It seems like an out

1:35:30

of her own nature. And I appreciated

1:35:32

how, you know, once it felt

1:35:34

like No Face demonstrated a

1:35:36

desire to not behave the way

1:35:38

that they were behaving, and they

1:35:41

you know, freed the

1:35:43

people that they ate from themselves,

1:35:47

and then Chahiro was like, Okay, let

1:35:49

me get you out of this horrible

1:35:52

like out of this like toxic environment

1:35:54

and take you to Granny and see how you do.

1:35:57

I just thought that was an interesting I guess, I don't know what

1:35:59

like more oralistic. They could go either way,

1:36:01

but um, I thought it was an interesting choice.

1:36:03

Yeah, I feel similarly conflicted. Yeah,

1:36:06

she does blame the bath house specifically

1:36:08

for causing No Face to be

1:36:10

this way, which is interesting and

1:36:12

also probably another iconic

1:36:15

shot of this movie is like, well,

1:36:17

because like you know, he is violently vomiting

1:36:20

all over the bath house um

1:36:22

and chasing what did you do to

1:36:24

me? And luck in in doing

1:36:27

so. There's a part where you Babba tries to fight

1:36:29

him off and gets also covered

1:36:31

in um no face vomit, and

1:36:34

that is that's nice. I like

1:36:36

that. I like that part. I was a big fan of

1:36:38

that as well. He loved it.

1:36:42

Yeah, any anything else

1:36:45

that folks want to cover, I think

1:36:47

that's it for me. Yeah? Same Here

1:36:50

does Spirited Away pass?

1:36:52

The back to test yes

1:36:56

yeah to Hero and

1:36:58

you Baba to Hero and in to

1:37:00

hero in Zeneba. My favorite

1:37:03

pass was can't you even manage a yes

1:37:05

ma'am? Or thank you? Yes ma'am?

1:37:07

What a dope hurry up like

1:37:09

pass that passes?

1:37:12

Like in the first scene, because

1:37:14

like the first the whole first scene

1:37:16

is you know, Chito's mother talking

1:37:18

to Chito as they're driving. Yeah,

1:37:21

true, yeah, so like right away wow.

1:37:25

Uh Now on to the

1:37:27

main event. The nipple scale

1:37:31

nipple scale zero to five nipples.

1:37:33

Based on looking at the movie through an

1:37:35

intersectional feminist lens, I

1:37:38

will give Spirited Away.

1:37:41

I'm like somewhere around a four or four

1:37:43

and a half. I think

1:37:46

there are some issues

1:37:48

with some of the character designs

1:37:51

with the female characters or

1:37:53

female coded characters specifically,

1:37:57

But other than that, I can't

1:37:59

really come plain about much

1:38:01

else because I

1:38:04

and you know me, I love to complain, so

1:38:08

we've made a career of it truly.

1:38:12

So yeah, I mean, just between

1:38:15

the protagonist of this movie being

1:38:18

a relatable and

1:38:20

active female character who

1:38:24

is someone that can

1:38:26

be admired by the

1:38:29

target demo of specifically

1:38:31

ten year old girls according

1:38:33

to Miyazaki, um,

1:38:35

but also people of all age

1:38:37

ranges, people of all genders. It's

1:38:40

just such a cool character, such an

1:38:42

interesting story just

1:38:44

watching like the choices she makes and

1:38:47

the friendships she develops,

1:38:49

and um, I don't know, it's just like

1:38:51

it's all really it

1:38:53

just seems like effortletlessly feminist.

1:38:57

Again, not to hand it to an autour

1:39:00

man, but it's just like, I

1:39:02

don't know, it's it's great. Um,

1:39:04

I'll give it four and a half nipples. One

1:39:07

will go to to Hero, one goes to

1:39:09

Lynn, one goes to Zeneba.

1:39:13

I'll give one to No Face, especially

1:39:15

no Face pre and post

1:39:18

bath house. No Faces

1:39:21

behavior in the bath house again

1:39:23

seduced by capitalism,

1:39:26

but No Face overcomes that

1:39:29

and um gets a job as Zeneba's

1:39:32

knitting slash weaving apprentice,

1:39:35

so that's fun. Uh,

1:39:37

and then my half nipple will go to non

1:39:40

binary icon the footballs

1:39:45

I'll go forward a half as well. I really

1:39:47

love this movie. I think that it's doing

1:39:50

so much that movies

1:39:52

in general are not doing effectively much

1:39:54

less movies that are accessible

1:39:57

to everyone. I

1:39:59

I of Jehudo. I

1:40:01

love the environmental message,

1:40:04

the capitalism message for the most part works

1:40:06

for me. There's little moments where you're like, but

1:40:10

for the most part, I think it's really

1:40:12

well done and clearly just based on

1:40:15

what I now know of Miyazaki's politics

1:40:17

and track record, all come from a very

1:40:19

good place. Yeah,

1:40:22

I love you know, kind of his

1:40:25

cinematic mission and tendency

1:40:27

to center female characters and the fact

1:40:29

that, like you were saying earlier, and I mean

1:40:31

like there, they wouldn't have made a difference. There could

1:40:33

have been a kid of any gender in this character and

1:40:35

it would have been just as impactful

1:40:37

and wonderful. Some

1:40:40

of the animation choices. I mean, it's

1:40:42

a gorgeously animated movie.

1:40:45

Uh, that's not the issue. It's

1:40:47

just yeah, the the a few a

1:40:50

few tropes with how women are

1:40:52

animated in large

1:40:54

animation projects, were still present here

1:40:56

in a way that I was hoping it wouldn't be. But it's

1:40:58

a little thing in a movie, this doing so

1:41:00

much right and holds up so

1:41:02

well. I would show this to

1:41:05

a kids that wouldn't

1:41:08

be awake crying their eyes

1:41:10

out over some of the more horrific images

1:41:12

in it anytime. Um

1:41:15

So I'll go four and a half nipples.

1:41:18

I'm going to give two to Hiro,

1:41:20

I'm going to give to to the

1:41:23

baby, and I'm

1:41:25

gonna give the last

1:41:28

half Oh wait, sorry, taking

1:41:30

him from the baby, giving them to Lynn. Baby gets

1:41:32

half a nipple done perfect.

1:41:35

Um yeah, I think I

1:41:38

kind of almost want to met you guys, but I think I'm gonna

1:41:40

go with four nipples on this

1:41:43

one. Um So, you know, the reasons

1:41:45

that you mentioned are really good. One thing we didn't talk

1:41:47

about that I forgot we probably should

1:41:49

have mentioned is like in terms

1:41:51

of every episode, where like oops, there was a whole

1:41:53

huge thing we forgot to say in terms

1:41:56

of like the production, Um,

1:41:58

I couldn't find any women in the major roles

1:42:00

of this movie. Um

1:42:03

so that's yeah, that that

1:42:05

takes away a half nipple for me, and then the other half

1:42:07

is yet the representation and stuff. I

1:42:09

think overall, it's just a really great movie.

1:42:12

Again, you know, it was the top

1:42:14

movie in Japan for almost twenty years for

1:42:16

good reason. Like, you know, you can still

1:42:18

show this today. There's a you know, the stage show

1:42:21

going on in Tokyo, like right now, this

1:42:23

show, this story is still very

1:42:25

accessible. Uh now, So

1:42:28

it's just really like it's

1:42:30

yeah, just a great story. And the

1:42:32

fact that it's able to translate so easily to

1:42:34

everyone around the world is uh,

1:42:37

yeah, it's great. And it's also the reason why

1:42:39

we got more ghibli

1:42:41

localizations. Uh moving

1:42:43

forward. So as far

1:42:45

as who gets the nipples goodness, I

1:42:47

should have everything, yes,

1:42:51

um, I think definitely

1:42:54

one to you know, and one to Lynn.

1:42:57

You know. I'll give one to Sniva just

1:43:00

because, like you know, she her

1:43:02

the problems to their character and both see, just because

1:43:04

of how she's drawn and that's you know, not

1:43:06

her fault. Um, And I'll

1:43:09

give one to the little

1:43:11

Bird, not not the big bird, but the

1:43:13

little bird. It's an icon as well.

1:43:17

Yes, I love that. Thank

1:43:20

you so much. Yes, thank

1:43:23

you for having me. It's been an honor and a privilege.

1:43:26

Oh my goodness, come back any

1:43:28

time. Yes, I would love to.

1:43:31

Where can people follow you on

1:43:33

social media? Tell us about your

1:43:35

podcast, tell us about anything you'd like

1:43:38

to tell us about. Yeah,

1:43:40

so I guess you know the first thing. If

1:43:42

you like what I had to say today,

1:43:44

Um, you can find me on Twitter and

1:43:47

Instagram at I You she Knows.

1:43:49

So that's a y U S A g kN

1:43:51

o w S. And if you're

1:43:53

a fan of the magical girl genre, I

1:43:56

talk about it every week with fans and

1:43:58

sometimes creators on Sparkle side

1:44:00

chats with magical Girl Are You? And you

1:44:03

can find those on Twitter and Instagram at

1:44:05

Magical Girl Are You? Um,

1:44:07

let's see. Also, I made

1:44:10

my voice acting debut this earlier

1:44:13

this year, and that's on the s

1:44:15

I've thank you. I'm on the sci

1:44:18

fi Western anthology podcast Breathing

1:44:20

Space Fading Frontier. Um, I'm

1:44:22

in one episode of season